Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl11, 2016-12-21

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
02:07 sten joined #perl11
06:20 anton joined #perl11
08:59 willthechill joined #perl11
09:25 jon joined #perl11
09:30 marshyon joined #perl11
09:30 marshyon good morning
09:54 willthechill marshyon: hello!  :-)
09:55 willthechill how are you?
09:55 marshyon hi will, how you doing ?
09:55 marshyon I'm good
09:55 willthechill I'm also good, thanks!  do we know one another outside of IRC?
09:55 marshyon nope
09:55 marshyon I'm entirely new to this channel and to RPerl
09:55 marshyon but not to Perl
09:56 marshyon having been a JAPH for >10 years now
09:56 willthechill oh okay, well then it is very nice to make your virtual acquaintance!
09:56 marshyon you too sir
09:56 willthechill cool well thanks for joining us!
09:56 marshyon thanks for having me
09:56 marshyon what time zone are you in right now ? I was expecting for you to be on line perhaps later
09:57 willthechill I'm in TX, USA
09:57 willthechill it is just about 4am
09:57 willthechill I work 24/7 for the good of the Perl community!
09:58 willthechill ;-)
09:58 marshyon oh, tother way round then, much earlier ;)
09:58 marshyon would it be ok to ask a quick question re: starting out with RPerl ?
09:59 willthechill yes of course
09:59 willthechill go right ahead
09:59 willthechill just be aware this is a publicly logged channel!
09:59 marshyon thanks,
09:59 marshyon well, I dont mind anybody knowing I'm looking at getting RPerl to work
10:00 marshyon but I'm a bit foxed to be honest, having followed the installer through to getting all the pre-reqs installed and rperl itself
10:00 marshyon but then to run a basic hello world
10:00 marshyon that bombs out with a 'bailing out' message
10:01 willthechill okay sure I can help with that
10:01 marshyon is there something I should be reading / applying that could be causing an issue
10:01 marshyon ?
10:01 willthechill did you use the RPerl installer script?
10:02 marshyon yes I did and I've tried a clean Xubuntu virtual
10:02 marshyon I'll check which steps I ran ...
10:02 willthechill okay yes you are already off to a great start
10:03 willthechill you must actually watch every step and make sure you read and understand the directions
10:03 willthechill you can't just click "yes" on every one
10:03 willthechill sorry for the complexity, RPerl is very complicated, we will have more streamlined installers in the future
10:04 marshyon right, I did a 10, Perl deps, 21 local::lib, 25 rperl deps, 26 rperl from cpan
10:04 marshyon sorry should have typed 21 Perl deps
10:04 marshyon doh 20 perl deps
10:05 willthechill yes that is all correct so far!
10:06 marshyon excellent
10:06 willthechill `which rperl`
10:06 marshyon which returns for me : /usr/local/bin/rperl
10:07 willthechill hmm odd
10:07 marshyon the error I get when running the example hello world
10:07 willthechill if you ran step 21 then the `rperl` executable should be somewhere in /home/FOO/perl5
10:07 marshyon https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wbraswell/rperl/master/lib/RPerl/Learning/Chapter1/exercise_1-hello_world.pl
10:08 marshyon when invoked as rperl exercise_1-hello_world.pl
10:09 marshyon is 'ERROR Exxxxx, COMPILER, POLYCC: Pluto PolyCC compiler returned error code'
10:09 marshyon 'please run again with `rperl -D` command or RPERL_DEBUG=1 environmental variable for error messages if none appear above,'
10:09 willthechill okay turn off parallelization
10:09 marshyon 'croaking at /usr/local/bin/rperl line 777.'
10:09 willthechill `rperl -nop input.pl`
10:09 willthechill that should fix it
10:09 willthechill perhaps you don't have polycc installed correctly, or any number of other issues
10:10 marshyon bingo !
10:10 marshyon I have an ELF 64-bit LSB executable
10:10 willthechill YES!
10:10 willthechill WELCOME TO THE FUTURE OF PERL!
10:10 marshyon your a star (*)
10:10 marshyon rock on !
10:10 willthechill :-D  right back atcha, my friend
10:11 marshyon so is the compiler trying to compile against the default of 4 CPUs ?
10:11 marshyon my virtual in this instance has only the 1
10:11 willthechill yes the parallelization defaults to 4 cpu cores, but hello world does not have any parallel code inside of it
10:11 marshyon true
10:11 willthechill just turn off parallelization for everything at this point
10:11 marshyon sure
10:11 willthechill if you get complex enough for parallel code, then come back and we will revisit the issue
10:12 willthechill :-)
10:12 marshyon I guess parallel is new / in development at the moment
10:12 willthechill correct, parallelization came out in RPerl v2.0 on the 4th of July, 2016
10:12 willthechill it is the biggest new feature
10:12 marshyon to be honest, the abiltiy to compile a single process / thread is fine for me just now
10:12 willthechill ALTHOUGH we are only days away from CHRISTMAS!!!
10:12 willthechill yes most people do not need parallelization for their apps
10:13 willthechill it is mostly scientific stuff that needs parallelization at this time
10:13 willthechill that will change in the future, but not right now
10:13 marshyon your release cycles seem to be very frequent - I'm impressed
10:13 willthechill we have major releases of the RPerl Family of Software on every major holidy
10:13 willthechill that is our ongoing and unending gift to humanity
10:14 marshyon I'm beginning to look at asynchronous (I know this is not parallelism) but will be very interested to do parallel in rperl in the future
10:14 willthechill especially Christmas & the 4th of July  :-)
10:14 willthechill yes I'm also working on asynchronous now, AJAX mixed w/ Perl
10:14 willthechill not pure-Perl though
10:15 willthechill do you have a Facebook account?
10:15 marshyon I use Javascript with nodejs (meteor) and started out with AJAX a while ago now, fascinating and very usefull stuff
10:15 marshyon I do, but dont update it much
10:15 willthechill okay great please send me a link so at least I will have some way to keep in touch
10:16 willthechill I mean, what is your Facebook username?
10:16 willthechill my username is 'wnbjr' so my link is https://www.facebook.com/wnbjr
10:16 marshyon marshyon will find me
10:16 marshyon https://www.facebook.com/marshyon
10:17 marshyon found you on facebook dude,
10:17 marshyon thanks
10:18 willthechill sweet!
10:19 willthechill what about gmail and github?
10:19 marshyon you will get me on marshyon@gmail.com
10:19 marshyon I have the same for github
10:19 willthechill excellent
10:19 willthechill we have a big release coming up on Christmas day
10:19 willthechill I will keep you posted
10:20 marshyon cheers, ta for that
10:20 willthechill please stay here in our IRC chat room, I come and go from the computer throughout the day and so do the others
10:20 willthechill so you can always ask a question here as long as I am online
10:20 marshyon currenlty on tmux, same here
10:20 willthechill which is almost always, unless I pack up the laptop and take it with me
10:21 marshyon thats dedication ! :)
10:23 willthechill haha yeah
10:23 willthechill so I was saying before, your rperl executable should not be installed globally if you ran step 21 properly
10:24 willthechill I'm guessing you ran step 26 as root
10:24 willthechill here's the pertinent line:   https://github.com/wbraswell/rperl/blob/master/script/rperl_installer.sh#L479
10:25 willthechill not a big deal, just pointing it out so that you know
10:26 willthechill the whole benefit of running step 21 or 22 (single-user install) instead of 23 or 24 (system-wide install) is to keep all your RPerl everything localized in the user's /home directory
10:26 willthechill but since it is all in a virtual machine anyway, and it is installed and working, then that's all that matters right now!  :-)
10:27 marshyon your no doubt correct
10:27 marshyon I will be flattening the virtual and starting over
10:28 marshyon and yes, your right, local install is always best
10:29 marshyon but this is brilliant, having a 64bit binary to deploy - and from Perl is fantastic
10:29 marshyon I know you can use 3rd party compilers (and I have done so in the past)
10:30 marshyon but this is in my view better, as it is 'strict' and missing out 'less optimal' Perl as I see it
10:30 marshyon ofcourse, stupidly fast to run
10:30 marshyon what's not to like
10:47 willthechill yes I am very happy with RPerl!
10:48 willthechill there are a few Perl packagers out there which simply obfuscate your Perl app and/or compress it along with the Perl interpreter
10:48 willthechill the only other Perl compiler is rurban's B::C compiler, which can save some startup time but is not an optimizing compiler, it is mostly used for protecting source code
10:49 willthechill the code is still interpreted using the Perl interpreter, it is not compiled to C/C++ as with RPerl
10:49 willthechill so RPerl is the only optimizing Perl compiler
10:50 willthechill rurban (Reini Urban) is on this channel often, he is one of the 3 co-founders of the Perl 11 philosophy, along w/ ingy dot net and myself
10:50 willthechill rurban has his own new fork of Perl 5 called cperl, which has a large number of patches on top of the normal "pumpkin" Perl 5 interpreter code, more stable and secure and a little bit faster even
11:02 anton_p joined #perl11
11:16 travis-ci perl11/cperl#2034 (smoke/gh235-exclude_scripts - af773c2 : Reini Urban): The build failed. https://travis-ci.org/perl11/cperl/builds/185732483
14:13 sten joined #perl11
16:51 marshyon I wondered if I could ask a question about the differnce between running rperl in --test as oposed to normal ( with --noparallel to compile on a single cpu system ), at https://paste.ee/p/UhfU1 I have a bit of simple test code
16:51 marshyon and this runs fine under 'rperl -t <path to scriptname.pl>'
16:52 marshyon but it fails when run with 'rperl --noparallel LearningRPerl/Chapter1/exercise_3-foo_bar_arithmetic.pl'
16:52 marshyon with an error like : Can't use string ("our") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at /usr/local/share/perl/5.22.1/RPerl/CodeBlock/Subroutine.pm line 154.
16:53 marshyon which seems to me to be something to do with the use of 'our' before naming the subroutine
16:56 marshyon I'm sure I'm doing something stupid but hoped someone could shed some light
16:56 marshyon enjoying learning rperl anyway by the ways
17:04 willthechill test mode does not compile into C++
17:04 willthechill it parses and checks for errors and executes only
17:06 willthechill shift is not allowed, must use only @ARG
17:06 willthechill (my integer $times) = @ARG;
17:11 marshyon right, understood.
17:11 marshyon I changed to use arg and got 'Global symbol "@ARG" requires explicit package name ....'
17:12 marshyon which seems to be a repeat of my trying to run example code from the learning rperl book
17:12 willthechill oh wait I have not yet released that update, sorry, must still use @_ instead of @ARG, that will change in the next few days FYI, it is already changed on github and in the docs
17:12 willthechill it is just not updated on CPAN yet
17:14 marshyon noprobs, makes sense now
17:14 willthechill yes I am also seeing the same error, checking it out now
17:16 willthechill might be a bug in RPerl, will have to look into it more
17:17 willthechill also, very few operators are implemented yet, so no time() or localtime() etc
17:18 willthechill we are in need of RPerl system developers to help implement the very large number of operators
17:18 willthechill we have a "devs getting started" document which goes into details
17:18 willthechill https://github.com/wbraswell/rperl/blob/master/docs/devs_getting_started.txt
20:23 mako93r joined #perl11
20:25 mako93r Hi everyone. I'm still coping with Appveyor, but made progress. Only 't/13' test is remaining.
20:25 mako93r Have a look if your spare time allows it: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/93r/rperl-g7jdg/build/1.0.49
20:26 willthechill mako93r: great to hear you are making progress!  :-)
20:27 mako93r All tests having a '.cpp.CPPOPS_CPPTYPES' reference file are affected. Everything else is fine now.
20:28 willthechill mako93r: that is because you don't have astyle working on appveyor
20:28 willthechill as far as I can see
20:28 willthechill it is all formatting issues which is due to astyle missing
20:29 mako93r but I use astyle under appveyor
20:29 mako93r choco install astyle
20:30 mako93r one of the very first lines
20:30 willthechill hmmm need to somehow debug that
20:30 willthechill I don't know how to check it in appveyor
20:30 willthechill I recognize these errors are due to missing astyle
20:31 mako93r the problem is it works fine under my system (with astyle installed)
20:32 mako93r tried to run appveyor without astyle doesn't seem to make a difference
20:32 willthechill I think it must be due to astyle not running properly
20:32 willthechill even if it seems to be installed
20:32 willthechill you should be able to log into the appveyor vm while it is live for 1 hour
20:33 willthechill and see if astyle is actually truly installed and running
20:34 mako93r I ran 'astyle --version' on appveyor after installing it and it responded
20:34 willthechill hmmm okay
20:34 willthechill next step, start enabling (or adding more) print statements for debugging to see exactly what is happening with astyle in those failing tests
20:35 willthechill when I create code I put tons of print statements and also RPerl::diag() or RPerl::debug() statements (equivalent), so there should already be quite a few debugging statements already in the code which are currently commented out
20:38 mako93r Yeah, me too. I could at least figure out 3 candidates where to put such statements: 't/13' (obvious), 'RPerl/Generator.pm', and 'RPerl/Compiler.pm'
20:38 mako93r wish me a happy debbugging :-D
20:41 mako93r but anyway, the main reason I'm writing on IRC is letting you know I'm still alive and working on RPerl
20:41 willthechill yes I am very happy you are still alive and kicking, haha!  :-)
20:43 mako93r Cross fingers! Maybe I can come up with a solution till friday. If so, you can say Santa Mako is coming, :-D
20:47 willthechill wow that would be GREAT!  :-)
20:48 willthechill I am working around the clock in preparations for the upcoming Christmas & New Years releases!!!
20:55 mako93r very cool
20:56 mako93r if all else fails I still have 'perl -d' (the ultimate weapon)
20:57 mako93r wish I could work around the clock, too
20:58 mako93r but even though I have holidays there's still some other business I have to take care off
21:36 travis-ci perl11/cperl#2036 (smoke/gh235-exclude_scripts - 54142c2 : Reini Urban): The build was fixed. https://travis-ci.org/perl11/cperl/builds/185882372

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