Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-dev, 2016-08-26

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Time Nick Message
00:51 cognominal joined #perl6-dev
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01:19 travis-ci joined #perl6-dev
01:19 travis-ci Rakudo build passed. lizmat 'Merge pull request #846 from Leont/less5
01:19 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/154996006 https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/945b916821b8...9ccd84801fbf
01:19 travis-ci left #perl6-dev
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01:36 dalek rakudo/nom: aa1ec6f | (Brock Wilcox)++ | / (2 files):
01:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Dissallow control commands (next, return, etc) in toplevel REPL
01:36 dalek rakudo/nom:
01:36 dalek rakudo/nom: * Catch control usage and show error
01:36 dalek rakudo/nom: * Switch to instance attributes for out-of-band control values
01:36 dalek rakudo/nom: * Merge partial-eval and repl-eval to simplify
01:36 dalek rakudo/nom: * Add to repl tests
01:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aa1ec6f29d
01:36 dalek rakudo/nom: dc83730 | hoelzro++ | / (2 files):
01:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #847 from awwaiid/repl-no-last
01:36 dalek rakudo/nom:
01:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Dissallow control commands (next, return, etc) in toplevel REPL
01:57 ShimmerFairy joined #perl6-dev
02:55 travis-ci joined #perl6-dev
02:55 travis-ci Rakudo build passed. Stefan Seifert 'Make Distribution::Path handle native libraries correctly
02:55 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/155064619 https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/9ccd84801fbf...6ae6ecbfca26
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03:42 travis-ci Rakudo build passed. Elizabeth Mattijsen 'Fix RT #127803
03:42 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/155083163 https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/6ae6ecbfca26...7fa2ba77d438
03:42 travis-ci left #perl6-dev
03:42 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=127803
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04:14 lizmat good *, #perl6-dev
04:14 lizmat seems like ./perl6-m --profile -Ilib t/harness6 --fudge --tests-from-file=t/spectest.data will reliably segfault withing 20 seconds  :-(
04:14 lizmat I guess no profile of prove6 anytime soon  :-(
05:25 lizmat joined #perl6-dev
05:27 lizmat joined #perl6-dev
05:33 dalek rakudo/nom: 3113465 | (Brock Wilcox)++ | src/core/REPL.pm:
05:33 dalek rakudo/nom: Temporarily skip REPL completions for jvm
05:33 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/31134652a1
05:33 dalek rakudo/nom: 74a445a | lizmat++ | src/core/REPL.pm:
05:33 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #848 from awwaiid/repl-jvm-no-completions
05:33 dalek rakudo/nom:
05:33 dalek rakudo/nom: Temporarily skip REPL completions for jvm
05:33 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/74a445a2bc
05:35 dalek rakudo/nom: 508192f | lizmat++ | src/core/REPL.pm:
05:35 dalek rakudo/nom: Abstract the resetting logic into a sub
05:35 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/508192fc80
05:59 awwaiid joined #perl6-dev
06:06 [TuxCM] joined #perl6-dev
06:11 [TuxCM] This is Rakudo version 2016.08.1-32-g508192f built on MoarVM version 2016.08
06:11 [TuxCM] csv-ip5xs       10.046
06:11 [TuxCM] test            15.299
06:11 [TuxCM] test-t           7.307
06:11 [TuxCM] csv-parser      16.346
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08:01 lizmat joined #perl6-dev
08:37 jnthn lizmat: The SEGV is in some ways the least of the problems. The next one up is that the profiler UI doesn't know how to present data collected from multiple threads so would only give the data from the first one...
08:38 lizmat ah, ok  :-(
08:40 nine jnthn: I'm quite sure now that ab6tract's double free crash is because of multiple threads trying to MVM_string_flatten the same string constant concurrently during creation of hashes.
08:40 jnthn Yeah, that function needs to become immutable really
08:41 ab6tract joined #perl6-dev
08:41 ab6tract o/ :)
08:41 ab6tract consolidating the discussion :)
08:41 nine ETOOMANYCHANNELS :)
08:59 [TuxCM] joined #perl6-dev
09:14 lizmat https://gist.github.com/lizmat/1b3c946ae9109e1dfc40ee025abb019f   # where does my $a live in the REPL???
09:18 brrt joined #perl6-dev
10:24 lizmat joined #perl6-dev
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10:42 lizmat jnthn: if I want to know the encoding of a $PIO, how do I get that ?
10:45 jnthn um
10:45 jnthn Not sure if you want, you'd need to keep track of it in the Perl 6 level handle, Ithink
10:45 jnthn *not sure if you can
10:45 jnthn gah :)
10:50 cognominal joined #perl6-dev
10:51 lizmat ok, because:
10:51 lizmat (open "foo", :bin).comb
10:52 lizmat currently gives a Seq of str
10:52 jnthn Arguably it should give an error :)
10:53 jnthn I think we kinda let you pretend things opened with :bin can be read as strings though :S
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12:01 dalek rakudo/nom: 87887da | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
12:01 dalek rakudo/nom: Make IO::Handle.encoding actually work
12:01 dalek rakudo/nom:
12:01 dalek rakudo/nom: So now you can query the encoding of an IO::Handle.  It will return
12:01 dalek rakudo/nom: "bin" if you specified :bin when opening the handle.
12:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/87887daa55
12:08 cygx joined #perl6-dev
12:09 cygx o/
12:09 cygx jnthn, lizmat: regarding :bin, cf https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/645 and https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/pull/319
12:10 cygx the former was a sort of 'minimal viable product' that uses latin1 to fake proper binary handling
12:20 lizmat hmmm... krunen might be interested in that as well
12:21 lizmat cygx: thanks for the reminder
12:24 jnthn This stuff is sorta on my radar
12:24 lizmat jnthn: how do you feel about mixing in a Binary role into IO::Handle to signify binaryness of the handle ?
12:24 krunen cygx, lizmat: yeah, $fh.read(1)[0] is not very elegant...
12:24 jnthn As discussed yesterday in #moarvm, it's kinda reached the point where a bunch of I/O stuff needs attention
12:25 cygx krunen: it was more about the interface, not the implementation
12:25 jnthn And we'll likely pull nearly all string-based I/O ops out.
12:25 cygx the idea was to allow read/write/seek on any handle (which necessitates invalidating the decode stream)
12:25 jnthn And expose the VM-based decoding stuff for some common encodings
12:25 cygx passing :bin would additionally make .getc/.get/... return bytes/blobs instead of strings
12:26 dalek rakudo/nom: 1a03efe | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
12:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Temporary fix for .comb/.split on binary handles
12:26 dalek rakudo/nom:
12:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Make it die for now while jnthn / cygx / krunen work out a better way
12:26 dalek rakudo/nom: to handle all of this.
12:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1a03efe4e3
12:26 jnthn So essentially MoarVM will just provide binary I/O and we'll pass bytes off to the decoder up at Perl 6 level
12:26 jnthn Note that this should make it *easier* for more folks to contribute since we'll be doing more of it in Perl 6 :)
12:27 lizmat so, please revert the last 2 commits: I see them as stopgaps only
12:27 jnthn A few things are pushing us in this direction. One is the utter fragility of the error handling in async I/O with strings today.
12:28 jnthn The other is that it'll be much easier to replace libuv for sync stuff - fixing the longstanding problems using sync file handles and sockets between threads - when we only have binary I/O to worry about down in the VM.
12:29 jnthn The other goal along with this is to have an encoding/decoding API that others can implement in modules, so that you can use other encodings besides the bundled ones with Perl 6 I/O.
12:30 krunen jnthn, by some wierd coincidence I just suggested a similar thing to lizmat a few minutes ago...
12:30 jnthn Also, having streaming decoders handy and uncoupled from I/O will be nice for implementing streaming protocol stuff, e.g. in HTTP where the headers come in and you want to treat them as ASCII or latin-1, but then decode the body bit by bit as it arrives using something else.
12:31 cygx krunen: well, it is kind of the sane way to do it ;)
12:31 jnthn Pretty much
12:31 jnthn The I/O ops that we have now basically exist because they reflect what was in Parrot, and it was far, far easier to just making existing stuff work than to go doing yet another big design job in the middle of porting. :)
12:32 jnthn *to just make
12:32 jnthn And then cleaning it up never really got near the top of the priority list before now :)
12:33 RabidGravy jnthn, so much that - real hoop of fire jumping in HTTP::UserAgent to achieve that
12:33 RabidGravy (switch decoding methods mid-stream that is)
12:34 jnthn fwiw, I already have Moar/NQP/Rakudo branches exploring doing this kind of approach for async socket I/O :)
12:35 jnthn (And yes, help is welcome :))
12:43 krunen I'll help
12:45 jnthn OK. The branches in question for exposing the existing decode stream stuff are expose-decode-stream in MoarVM and NQP
12:48 ShimmerFairy jnthn: if binary decoding is passed off to a higher level, where would "text mode" fit in? Is it something an external module would handle, or could the lower levels provide an "alternate" binary stream of the file opened in text mode?
12:49 ShimmerFairy (I only ask because I recently ran into a situation where I had to ponder the difference between C-level binary and text modes)
12:52 cygx ShimmerFairy: we don't use C stdio, so as far as we're concerned, there's no such thing
12:52 jnthn cygx++ # more succinct answer than I could come up with :)
12:52 ShimmerFairy cygx: really? does libuv or whatever just make up its own assembler-level IO then?
12:54 jnthn It just calls the same level of OS APIs that a stdio implementation is done in terms of.
12:54 ShimmerFairy right, "assembler" might have been too specific a word choice :)
12:54 jnthn Well, sorta kinda, 'cus libuv is mostly dealing in the async APIs.
12:55 * cygx throws in the relevant  term 'POSIX'
12:56 ShimmerFairy that situation, btw, was handling GNU checksum files, where they come with a mode flag for each listed file. And P6's text mode isn't the same as C's, so it seems like something you'd have to do manually.
12:58 cygx ShimmerFairy: also note that on POSIX systems, text and binary mode are the same
12:58 cygx "The character 'b' shall have no effect, but is allowed for ISO C standard conformance."
12:59 ShimmerFairy cygx: exactly. GNU's md5sum-style utils use text mode by default on such systems. (But of course that stupidly introduces a problem with Linux->Windows transfer if you're not careful...)
13:00 ShimmerFairy cygx: my problem atm is that Windows' text mode is practically undocumented. I know of the transforms, but critically not if it's encoding dependent. That is, is its "\r\n"->"\n" transformation logical or always "\x13\x10" -> "\x10"?
13:02 cygx the winapi supports several text modes (_O_TEXT, _O_WTEXT, _O_U16TEXT, ...)
13:02 cygx not sure how that maps to stdio
13:04 ShimmerFairy All I've found is that the newlines are transformed to single "\n" chars for programmer-land, and it treats ^Z as EOF. But that's all I've found so far, there's really not much info on how it works.
13:04 cygx stdio only deals in _O_TEXT and _O_BINARY
13:04 cygx _setmode vs _set_fmode
13:05 cygx disregard that
13:05 cygx you can pass a ccs=UNICODE/UTF-8/... to fopen
13:06 ShimmerFairy not helping matters is that I'm 110% unfamiliar with Windows :P
13:13 cygx apparently, there's binary, text and translated mode
13:13 cygx text mode does CR-LF translation, tranlated mode additionally special-cases CTRL+Z
13:13 ShimmerFairy interesting
13:13 cygx if unicode IO functions are used, text mode also does unicode-to-multibyte translation
13:18 ShimmerFairy cygx: right. I just wish it was better documented for Windows, since I don't what would happen if I tried to open in text mode on an EBCDIC Windows system. I'd hate to have to assume that files are always ASCII-compatible :P
13:19 ShimmerFairy *don't know
13:22 cygx btw, what's up with the IO role? ALl it does is provide the umask method...
13:23 ShimmerFairy cygx: I find core's roles in general to be nigh-useless, where they could/should be more substantial "interfaces".
13:29 ShimmerFairy e.g. the Positional role does nothing to guarantee the existence of any of the AT-POS family of methods, which feels like an obvious thing.
13:33 jnthn But that'd be vacuously fulfilled anyway
13:33 jnthn Because Any implements AT-POS
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14:07 hoelzro lizmat: from what I remember, mys from previous lines live in outer contexts
14:08 lizmat hoelzro: well, they don't show up with OUTERS::.keys  :-(
14:08 hoelzro =/
14:09 hoelzro hmm...it could be that the context used doesn't live in any pseudo stash available to P6
14:09 hoelzro it uses this CTXSAVE thing to save the context at the end of parsing each line
14:10 cognominal joined #perl6-dev
14:10 hoelzro and then it passes that saved context to the call that evals the subsequent line
14:10 cygx shouldn't that be OUTER::MY::.keys?
14:14 nine jnthn: do nqp::objectids survive serialization/deserialization?
14:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 575dda1 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
14:15 dalek rakudo/nom: Add 2016.08.1 to the list of past releases
14:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/575dda1f74
14:19 jnthn nine: no
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14:50 awwaiid lizmat: I wonder if this is related to dynamic vars (definition, then use on another line) not working in the REPL
14:50 [TuxCM] joined #perl6-dev
14:51 lizmat awwaiid: fwiw, I moved the dynamic vars into the start block
15:30 gfldex m: "file-001.fa".succ.say
15:30 camelia rakudo-moar 575dda: OUTPUT«file-002.fa␤»
16:23 cygx IO frontend redesign, RFC: https://gist.github.com/cygx/7d792e09b182a1a79b1dac82663dfddb
16:35 [Coke] RT: 1369; @LARRY: 18; BOOTSTRAP: 4; BUG: 491; BUILD: 11; CONC: 50; DOCS: 1; GLR: 5; IO: 15; JVM: 69; LTA: 119; MATH: 6; NATIVECALL: 15; NEW: 848; NYI: 91; OO: 7; OSX: 6; PERF: 26; POD: 18; PRECOMP: 12; REGEX: 34; REPL: 4; RFC: 54; SEGV: 37; SPESH: 1; STAR: 6; TESTNEEDED: 34; TODO: 10; UNI: 30; UNTAGGED: 288; WEIRD: 3
16:44 [Coke] I wonder if a monthly challenge would help. like, "get under 1300 tickets before the next release"
17:00 hoelzro is there a way to unwind the stack in a CATCH handler other than returning from that handler?
17:19 cygx .oO( wrap the whole thing in a loop and call last as appropriate... )
17:30 cognominal joined #perl6-dev
17:41 jnthn hoelzro: No; CATCH handlers are (by design) run on the stack top, so you've got the dynamic scope of the thrower in place and so resumable exceptions are dead easy (you just don't unwind after)
17:45 cygx jnthn: if you got a minute, would https://gist.github.com/cygx/7d792e09b182a1a79b1dac82663dfddb mesh with the moarvm-side refactor?
17:45 cygx *would
18:02 hoelzro jnthn: ok, thanks!
18:04 hoelzro awwaiid: I'm wondering if we should slightly modify your change to REPL.pm to call next outside of the CATCH handler to avoid that "return $!control-exception unless $!exception-handled" code
18:04 hoelzro it works great, but it just feels a little "action at a distance" to me
18:21 cygx nine: precompilation leaks filehandles as slurp-rest does not close the file
18:21 cygx cf https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/CompUnit/Repository/FileSystem.pm#L62
18:22 cygx should I add a close there, or change slurp-rest?
18:27 cygx perhaps add a :$close parameter to slurp-rest, but with what default?
18:32 cygx probably false, same as .lines
18:59 cygx create-moar-runner.pl no longer does the Right Thing as it checks for $*DISTRO eq 'MSWin32', but minw returns 'mswin32'
18:59 cygx *mine
19:06 [Coke] the least intrusive change would be to add an explicit .close
19:06 [Coke] changing slurp-rest impacts users
19:06 [Coke] cygx: can you open a ticket for that?
19:06 [Coke] (the mswin32 thign)
19:06 cygx [Coke]: I'll send some pull requests shortly
19:07 cygx [Coke]: the change to slurp-rest is non-intrusive is :$close defaults to false
19:07 cygx *if
19:07 [Coke] it's -less- intrusive; but you're changing an already documented method that's part of roast.
19:08 [Coke] (the mswin32 thing could be solved with a $*DISTRO ~~ /i 'MSWIN32' /
19:08 [Coke] er, /:i
19:09 cygx [Coke]: we already rely on distro names being lowercase elsewhere (in particular, Distro.is-win)
19:16 awwaiid hoelzro: yes, I'd love to get rid of that, but so far haven't figured out a way
19:17 awwaiid /go status
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19:28 hoelzro awwaiid: I can't try it right now (packing up my whole life =/), but what about setting a flag in CATCH and saying "next if $flag;" outside of the CATCH block?
19:47 awwaiid hoelzro: hmm. ok yeah. or another return flag -- the CATCH is there for catching both repl-eval issues and repl-print issues. Maybe that was a premature merging.
19:50 hoelzro|phone joined #perl6-dev
19:51 hoelzro|phone awwaiid: well, I wanted to merge it earlier rather than let it sit and forget about it during my move =)
19:54 awwaiid hoelzro|phone: oh you merged it? I thought I did :) hehe
19:57 hoelzro|phone hehe
19:58 awwaiid hoelzro|phone: ohh, you meant the PR
19:59 awwaiid hoelzro|phone: I was talking about merging the CATCH to cover both repl-eval and repl-print
19:59 awwaiid hoelzro|phone: I very much appreciate the PR merge :)
19:59 vendethiel joined #perl6-dev
20:27 hoelzro|phone =)
20:32 awwaiid hoelzro|phone: worked, https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/852
20:36 dalek rakudo/nom: efd880a | timotimo++ | Configure.pl:
20:36 dalek rakudo/nom: strongly point out surprising behavior of --gen-* options
20:36 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:36 dalek rakudo/nom: nobody would expect any installation to happen just by calling
20:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Configure.pl; much less potential installation into system-wide
20:36 dalek rakudo/nom: directories.
20:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/efd880af17
20:37 dalek nqp: 98f93df | timotimo++ | Configure.pl:
20:37 dalek nqp: Warn about --gen-moar installing at Configure time
20:37 dalek nqp:
20:37 dalek nqp: You wouldn't expect anything in the system to change
20:37 dalek nqp: just because you're running a Configure.pl script.
20:37 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/98f93dfb15
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: bc187b1 | timotimo++ | README.md:
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: point out the potential surprise of --gen-* in README as well.
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bc187b1784
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21:29 hoelzro|phone awwaiid : awesome, I can maybe look later tonight
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom: ebf34aa | lizmat++ | tools/build/create-moar-runner.pl:
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix create-moar-runner.pl for Win32
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom: $*DISTRO always returns lowercase, without whitespace names
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ebf34aa946
21:53 dalek rakudo/nom: ede7c60 | lizmat++ | src/core/CompUnit/Repository/FileSystem.pm:
21:53 dalek rakudo/nom: Make sure we close filehandle after reading
21:53 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:53 dalek rakudo/nom: See http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2016-08-26#i_13097501
21:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ede7c60b21
21:54 dalek rakudo/nom: 0f1d039 | lizmat++ | tools/build/create-moar-runner.pl:
21:54 dalek rakudo/nom: Better win32 test
21:54 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:54 dalek rakudo/nom: Plus remove some superstitious parens
21:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0f1d0394bd
21:54 lizmat good night, #perl6-dev!
21:54 timotimo gnite lizmat!
21:55 jdv79 nite
22:02 jnthn 'night, lizmat
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: 0704970 | lizmat++ | src/core/CompUnit/PrecompilationStore/File.pm:
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement part of PR 851, cygx++
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Previous commit inadvertenty already implemented the other part.
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0704970289
22:03 timotimo lizmat devs in her sleep o_O
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: 4efdd94 | cygx++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Add :close flag to IO::Handle.slurp-rest
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4efdd949df
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: 763d678 | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #850 from cygx/slurp-rest
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Add :close flag to IO::Handle.slurp-rest
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/763d6787da
22:05 dalek rakudo/nom: 85cbb6d | (Brock Wilcox)++ | src/core/REPL.pm:
22:05 dalek rakudo/nom: Get rid of dynamic variable by moving CATCH
22:05 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/85cbb6ddbf
22:05 dalek rakudo/nom: 3a294e9 | lizmat++ | src/core/REPL.pm:
22:05 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #852 from awwaiid/repl-simplify-catching
22:05 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:05 dalek rakudo/nom: Get rid of dynamic variable by moving CATCH
22:05 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3a294e94d6
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: 6a8278c | lizmat++ | tools/build/create-moar-runner.pl:
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: Adhere to PR 849, cygx++
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6a8278cd5d
22:15 lizmat really sleep now&
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