Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-dev, 2017-02-28

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Time Nick Message
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00:02 Zoffix Actually t/spec/S09-typed-arrays/hashes.t
00:02 Zoffix stupid copy-paste....
00:03 Zoffix Actually t/spec/S09-typed-arrays/hashes.t doesn't have a contradictory test. It was just passing for the wrong reason. All of the failing tests reuse %h, checking the failures don't create `a` key.... but that key already exists in %h prior to tests and the reason they were passing is because trying to do a failed assignment nulled the hash
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00:03 Zoffix So lizmat++ actually fixed an issue that wasn't being caught by bad tests.
00:05 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 61a65cee3d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
00:05 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Fix REPL printing a thrown-and-caught Exception
00:05 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
00:05 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Fixes https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130876#txn-1451692
00:05 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/61a65cee3d
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00:50 lizmat and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/02/28/2017-09-the-ios-are-a-changin/
01:04 cog_ lizmat++
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02:49 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today
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07:14 [Tux] This is Rakudo version 2017.02-120-g61a65cee3 built on MoarVM version 2017.02-9-gc5379702
07:14 [Tux] csv-ip5xs        2.845
07:14 [Tux] test            12.718
07:14 [Tux] test-t           4.953 - 4.980
07:14 [Tux] csv-parser      13.286
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10:12 Geth ¦ roast: 1c24625e0a | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | S17-supply/supplier-preserving.t
10:12 Geth ¦ roast: Fix a race condition in S::P test.
10:12 Geth ¦ roast:
10:12 Geth ¦ roast: The @closings array could end up pushed to from multiple threads, so
10:12 Geth ¦ roast: very occasionally something would go rotten.
10:12 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1c24625e0a
10:12 jnthn dogbert17: ^^ fixes one of the things you reported yesterday, hopefully :)
10:19 lizmat http://stackoverflow.com/questions/42505139/does-changing-perl-6s-out-change-standard-output-for-child-processes
10:19 jnthn No
10:19 jnthn :)
10:21 jnthn Replacing $*OUT isn't changing STDOUT at the handle level either, it's just changing the object that we use
10:22 jnthn Could we fudge that somehow in the shell implementation? I guess, yes.
10:24 jnthn A bit like we do with %*ENV and $*CWD - we never call setenv/chdir, we just use it in the appropriate places.
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10:24 jnthn But no, we haven't gone down the path of making $*OUT and $*ERR affect process spawning
10:25 lizmat nor do I think we can, because one could replace $*OUT with something that doesn't do anything with handles at the OS level
10:25 lizmat and how would you pass that on to a child process ?
10:25 jnthn Oh, you wouldn't
10:26 jnthn You'd have to pretend :err and :out were supplied
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10:26 jnthn And write stuff to $*OUT and $*ERR as it comes in
10:27 jnthn I'm still not sure whether we should, however ;)
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11:16 Geth ¦ nqp: 44a3fed66b | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION
11:16 Geth ¦ nqp: Bump MOAR_REVISION.
11:16 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/44a3fed66b
11:16 Geth ¦ nqp: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/compare/2017.02-7-g3d85900...2017.02-17-gec99d41
11:17 Geth ¦ roast: 7996c41781 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S09-typed-arrays/hashes.t
11:17 Geth ¦ roast: Adapt tests so we test something sensible
11:17 Geth ¦ roast:
11:17 Geth ¦ roast: If a STORE on a Hash fails, it should leave the Has unchanged, not
11:17 Geth ¦ roast: empty (basically what ae7bcf1b8e1fa612413d changed).
11:17 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7996c41781
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 26e6993bd8 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Bump to get latest MoarVM.
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: * Fix CArray so that setting a type object in an element (for struct,
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:   pointer, and array members) will pass NULL, not some junk value
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:   (jnthn++)
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: * Fix a very occasional deadlock when GC occurred exactly at the same
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:   time as the event loop worker thread was being spawned (jnthn++)
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: * Fixes to :i by using foldcase semantics, not lowercase
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:   (MasterDuke17++)
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: * Fix reporting of thread spawning errors when out of or low on memory
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:   or handles (timotimo++)
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/26e6993bd8
11:29 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/2017.02-37-ga0de23c...2017.02-38-g44a3fed
11:30 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 2ad93cfa3d | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 4 files
11:30 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Test nulling of CStruct/CArray elements.
11:30 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2ad93cfa3d
11:37 * lizmat pulls, builds and tests
11:52 Geth ¦ roast: f42a931504 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S05-modifier/ignorecase.t
11:52 Geth ¦ roast: Unfudge now passing tests
11:52 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f42a931504
11:53 jnthn Figured you'd beat me to that :)
11:58 * masak eats, shoots, and leaves :P
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12:03 lizmat bamboo-shoots and leaves?
12:04 lizmat .oO( the food of pandas )
12:08 jnthn :)
12:08 jnthn lunch &
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13:07 Zoffix lucasb: 6.d is not scheduled; the list of proposed changes is at https://github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master/v6d.pod
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13:08 lucasb thanks Zoffix. I could add my ideas to specs/v6d.pod; but I'm sure they are controversial; so I prefer to say them here. If anybody likes them, then they can be added to v6d.pod
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13:09 lucasb Proposed change #1: make native num defaults to 0.0 instead of NaN
13:09 lucasb m: say my num $
13:09 camelia rakudo-moar 2ad93c: OUTPUT: «NaN␤»
13:10 lucasb Proposed change #2: make $() really mean the empty itemized list instead of the $/ thing
13:10 Zoffix I'll raise you: all of our "uninitialized numeric is zero" concept needs to be fixed; or tossed entirely, as I propsoe it.
13:11 Zoffix m: say Num + 0
13:11 camelia rakudo-moar 2ad93c: OUTPUT: «Invocant requires an instance of type Num, but a type object was passed.  Did you forget a .new?␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
13:11 Zoffix ^ broken
13:12 Zoffix lucasb: what's the reasoning for the $() thing? Never once used it in my code to mean an itemized list. And I imagine its current meaning is much more useful, and would be even more useful if it checked definedness instead of truthiness
13:13 lucasb sorry, I didn't understand. Do you want Int+0, Num+0 to return 0 instead of failing?
13:15 Zoffix lucasb: Perl 5 has a thing where an `undef` is zero in numeric context and it issues a warning. We copied that.
13:15 Zoffix m: say quietly +Num
13:15 camelia rakudo-moar 2ad93c: OUTPUT: «0␤»
13:16 Zoffix But not only do we have many numeric types, we also have an infinite number of `undef`s, so the concept doesn't really work. One of the issues is the Num + 0 example that should result in 0e0 + a warning
13:16 * Zoffix greps logs
13:16 lucasb idk if it's relevant, but I was talking specifically about the *native* num, not Num.
13:17 lucasb native int already is initialized with 0
13:17 lucasb native types are never undefined
13:18 Zoffix Well, don't see the logs, but there many more examples of this brokeness, and I came to the conclusion that we should abandon this idea of treating an undefined numeric as a zero entirely.
13:18 Zoffix lucasb: it's not so much initialized that it can't be anything else (other than some other valid int number). Whereas with `num` we can give it a non-numeric value, a NaN
13:18 Zoffix There's no "uninitialized int"
13:19 Zoffix lucasb: but why 0.0?
13:19 Zoffix or rather 0e0
13:19 lizmat could this be related to TimToady's slang work?  http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.users/2017/02/msg3320.html
13:21 lucasb I can only think of 0e0 or NaN as the default value for native num. between these 2, I personaly prefer 0e0
13:21 Zoffix lucasb: but why?
13:22 lucasb I can't put into words, it just feels the right thing, sorry :)
13:23 Zoffix heh
13:24 lucasb Proposed change #3: get rid of the undefine() function and add .clear methods to Array and Hash
13:24 Zoffix NaN just feels right to me: no number was assigned to the num, so it doesn't have a number, or reworded, it has not-a-number
13:24 lucasb undefine() doesn't undefine array and hashes, it just clears them
13:24 Zoffix we have an undefine function? :o
13:24 lucasb m: my @a; undefine(@a); say @a.defined
13:24 camelia rakudo-moar 2ad93c: OUTPUT: «True␤»
13:24 lucasb I wish there was @a.clear and %h.clear for this purpose
13:25 * Zoffix is happy with = ()
13:25 timotimo what, we have undefine()?
13:25 Zoffix Yeah, I'm surprised too
13:26 Zoffix There's a whole bunch of tests for it too, although it's not documented.
13:26 lucasb I guess nobody uses it :)
13:26 lucasb an indicantion that it is a candidate to go away?
13:27 Zoffix lucasb: heh, well, the "nobody uses it" is based on two people, at least one of which doesn't use Perl 6...
13:27 Zoffix lucasb: there are tests for it in the Perl 6 Specification, so it's not going away without a fight :)
13:27 lizmat it's actually in the speculation: S32-setting-library/Basics, line 60
13:28 lucasb I was half joking. undefine() for scalars makes sense. I just pointed its behavior with Array and Hash
13:28 lizmat actual implementation is just assiging Nil to whatever is being passed
13:29 timotimo right
13:29 lizmat actually, assign Empty to arrays and hashes
13:31 lucasb yes, assinging Nil/Empty/() to arrays and hahes *makes* sense. just the name "undefine" is a little off for arrays and hashes, because it can be confused with the definedness of the object, which concrete arrays and hashes are always defined
13:33 lucasb these 3 are the only changes that come to my mind, now. thanks everybody for listening :)
13:34 timotimo that's a good number
13:35 timotimo perl6 started with how many hundred changes that were suggested? ;)
13:35 lucasb 331, 311 rfcs or something :)
13:35 Zoffix lucasb: well, write them down
13:35 Zoffix huggable: v6.d
13:35 huggable Zoffix, Proposed changes for Perl 6 v6.d: https://github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master/v6d.pod
13:36 Zoffix "Please only submit planned changes if you are willing to provide a patch to implement them."
13:36 lucasb oops, 361 rfcs to be exact
13:37 Zoffix lucasb: I can make the patches for you if you don't wish to do them yourself, but it'll be your job to argue for the change. (mention that fact in stakehodler part)
13:37 lucasb Zoffix: thanks!
13:38 * jnthn back
13:38 lucasb I feel the ideas need to achieve a little consensus before adding them to v6d.pod, so let the ideas stay a little in the air in the following weeks, for people to talk about...
13:39 * Zoffix will likely forget about this conversation by tomorrow :}
13:40 lucasb no problem, I always repeat N times my ideas, before I get a definite yes or no. so I'll bring this up other time :)
13:41 Zoffix lizmat: fwiw, perl6-debug-m doesn't even start for me. I get "Illegal option --nqp-lib"
13:42 Zoffix But the error in the message does suggest the brain changes, indeed.
13:42 timotimo jnthn: i'm inclined to write up a response along "DIHWIDT" to bgill's RT #130886
13:42 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=130886
13:42 timotimo though it surprises me a little that we don't get "inconsistent bind result" there
13:43 jnthn Ah, is that the side-effects in where clauses?
13:43 * Zoffix doesn't get where the inconsistent bind is
13:44 jnthn But yeah, if you do side effects in your where clauses and something breaks, you get to keep all the pieces so far as I'm concerned.
13:44 Zoffix As I see it, the where clause can give different result for same input; there are no sideeffects
13:45 timotimo yup, the where clause pulls one value out of an iterator each time
13:45 timotimo there are side-effects, though
13:45 timotimo the iterator gets advanced
13:45 jnthn pull-one is a side-effect
13:45 timotimo i'll write something up
13:45 jnthn timotimo++
13:45 Zoffix m: multi foo($ where {$++ %% 5 ?? 1 !! 0}) { say "here" }; multi foo($) { say "♥
13:45 camelia rakudo-moar 2ad93c: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3}) { say "here" }; multi foo($) { say "♥7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        argument list␤    …»
13:45 Zoffix m: multi foo($ where {$++ %% 5 ?? 1 !! 0}) { say "here" }; multi foo($) { say "♥" }; foo(42) xx 20
13:45 camelia rakudo-moar 2ad93c: OUTPUT: «here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤»
13:46 Zoffix m: multi foo($ where {$++ %% 2 ?? 1 !! 0}) { say "here" }; multi foo($) { say "♥" }; foo(42) xx 20
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar 2ad93c: OUTPUT: «here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤»
13:47 Zoffix m: multi foo($ where {$++ %% 2 ?? 1 !! 0}) { say "here" }; multi foo($) { say "♥" }; foo(42) for ^20
13:47 camelia rakudo-moar 2ad93c: OUTPUT: «here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤»
13:49 timotimo m: my $val; multi foo($ where {$val++ %% 2 ?? 1 !! 0}) { say "here" }; multi foo($) { say "♥" }; foo(42) for ^20
13:49 camelia rakudo-moar 2ad93c: OUTPUT: «Internal error: inconsistent bind result␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
13:56 timotimo replied to that bug
13:56 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 05add43243 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 2 files
13:56 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Default to translating newlines in Proc::Async.
13:56 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
13:56 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: At least, for stdout and stderr. Still need to look into stdin.
13:56 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/05add43243
13:56 [Coke] (https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-02-28#i_14178991) - I think this is too strongly worded. Someone with a good idea may not end up implementing the idea; Certainly you can't complain if no one volunteers to do it on your behalf...
13:56 * perlpilot agrees with [Coke] FWIW
13:56 perlpilot (good morning btw :)
13:57 timotimo ohai perlpilot
14:05 Zoffix man, our default REPL is terrible, can't even move cursor around
14:06 timotimo if you don't have anything readline-like ... yeah
14:06 timotimo i'm glad we don't have a readline implementation in core, though
14:08 DrForr so am I :) :/
14:08 timotimo you know how linenoise started, and how linenoise ended up being? :P
14:09 timotimo "bah, readline is like five million lines of code. it can't be that difficult to write a readline-like in a few hundred lines"
14:09 timotimo "oh, this doesn't work on all systems. oh, there's some edge cases here. ah, we have to support these kinds of system properties. oh, not all terminals behave the same way"
14:09 timotimo "how the fuck did we end up with six million lines of code?!?"
14:10 DrForr Those who do not understand terminals are doomed to reimplement them, and even worse.
14:10 Zoffix It has 6 million lines of code? :o
14:10 timotimo no it doesn't, that was pure hyperbole
14:11 timotimo it probably has less LoC than gnu readline
14:11 timotimo but still
14:12 timotimo people always be like "it can't be hard to make the cursor move around and have a bit of history"
14:12 timotimo and then they either end up with a broken/buggy/incomplete implementation, or they figure out that it can actually be hard
14:12 timotimo in short: fuck. this. shit.
14:13 jnthn Maybe the default repl should just start a web server and open your browser :P
14:13 perlpilot timotimo: remember that progress is made by the unreasonable man  ;)
14:13 Zoffix m: sub foo { return ($^a, False) }; my ($a, $b) = foo Slip; dd [$a, $b]
14:13 camelia rakudo-moar 05add4: OUTPUT: «[Slip, Bool::False]␤»
14:13 Zoffix wc
14:13 timotimo jnthn: actually, that sounds kinda nice
14:21 brrt anybody recall the antirez guy writing a text editor in 1kb
14:21 timotimo cool
14:21 brrt the good thing about that 1kb was that it was really easy to find bugs in :-)
14:28 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 0a2eef8fb0 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | src/core/Str.pm
14:28 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Add a :translate-nl option to Str.encode.
14:28 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
14:28 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: If we're on Windows, this will replace \n with \r\n. At some point it
14:28 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: would be nice to get VM-backed decoders to do this in a single pass,
14:28 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: but that can wait until the larger upcoming encoding refactors.
14:28 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0a2eef8fb0
14:34 lizmat jnthn: maybe make :$translate-nl = False default to Rakudo::Internals.IS-WIN ?
14:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 2973ccd5c7 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | src/core/Proc/Async.pm
14:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Make Proc::Async do newline translation on stdin.
14:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
14:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: So that print/put/say on Windows will transform \n to \r\n.
14:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2973ccd5c7
14:37 jnthn lizmat: No because of the patch I just pushed :)
14:37 jnthn Which uses it as the default for stdout/stderr too
14:38 jnthn d'oh, my :$enc = $!enc dupes something though
14:38 jnthn I was sure that was already the way it iwas
14:38 jnthn *was
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14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 779ef286f9 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | src/core/Proc/Async.pm
14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Tweak object-level enc/translate-nl defaulting.
14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: We don't need to do it twice for `enc`, and the previous appraoch to
14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: `translate-nl` being different from how we did it for `enc` was a bit
14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: inconsistent, even if functionally equivalent.
14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/779ef286f9
14:53 Geth ¦ nqp: 2780ed774a | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION
14:53 Geth ¦ nqp: Bump MOAR_REVISION.
14:53 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2780ed774a
14:53 Geth ¦ nqp: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/compare/2017.02-17-gec99d41...2017.02-18-g5f9d698
14:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: b4118a7375 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION
14:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Get latest MoarVM.
14:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
14:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Exposes the newline translation functionality of VM-backed decoder,
14:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: which Rakudo is now using.
14:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b4118a7375
14:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/2017.02-38-g44a3fed...2017.02-39-g2780ed7
14:56 Geth ¦ roast: 875cc112ea | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | S17-procasync/basic.t
14:56 Geth ¦ roast: Test to cover RT #130788.
14:56 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/875cc112ea
14:56 Geth ¦ roast: a5b0209812 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | S17-procasync/basic.t
14:56 Geth ¦ roast: Remove .subst("\r\n", "\n").
14:56 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=130788
14:56 Geth ¦ roast:
14:56 Geth ¦ roast: Not required after latest fixes.
14:56 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a5b0209812
15:01 Zoffix Wonder if https://github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master/S17-channel/stress.t really needs the randomness in it
15:01 Zoffix I like running full stresstests, but that test's variance in runtimes is really annoying. Sometimes takes just 15 seconds, others 3-5 minutes :/
15:02 Zoffix m: say 244/60
15:02 camelia rakudo-moar 2973cc: OUTPUT: «4.066667␤»
15:02 Zoffix Well, 1-2 minutes.
15:10 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 7f9235c79d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
15:10 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Fix REPL thinking returned stuff is a thrown exception
15:10 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
15:10 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: With the current versionb, it's possible to trick REPL into
15:10 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: thinking an exception was thrown when it really wasn't with code like:
15:10 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
15:10 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: say "hi"; use nqp; my $x = REPL.new(nqp::getcomp("perl6"), %).repl-eval(q|die "meow"|);
15:10 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
15:10 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: <…commit message has 5 more lines…>
15:10 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7f9235c79d
15:10 Geth ¦ roast: 5b965eb8ed | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | S17-channel/stress.t
15:10 Geth ¦ roast: Make a stress test a little less stressful.
15:10 Geth ¦ roast:
15:10 Geth ¦ roast: The 2 minutes sometimes needed was a rather long time to wait, and
15:10 Geth ¦ roast: this smaller example will either fail or flap on the bug.
15:10 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5b965eb8ed
15:11 jnthn git st
15:11 Zoffix Wooo \o/ jnthn++
15:11 jnthn oops
15:11 jnthn :)
15:18 brrt joined #perl6-dev
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15:35 * masak .oO( git st was too much for me to type, so I'm using a ligature instead: git st )
15:37 perlpilot masak: why not "gst"?  or ligature that too  :)
15:37 Zoffix why not g
15:38 perlpilot not enough variation to get all of the git commands out of that one character.
15:39 Zoffix sure there is
15:39 perlpilot unless there are many unicode variations of g that I'm not aware of ...
15:39 Zoffix g
15:39 Zoffix gg
15:39 Zoffix gggg
15:39 Zoffix etc
15:39 timotimo good game bro
15:39 Zoffix There are a few
15:39 perlpilot oh, but that messes with brevity
15:40 Zoffix ⓖ????g????????????????????????????????????????⒢????????????ǵgﻭﻭﻮБኗ????ġɢǥgᵍƃƃgg
15:41 timotimo %)
15:41 Zoffix m: "ⓖ g????????????????????????????????????????⒢   ǵgﻭﻭﻮБኗ????ġɢǥgᵍƃƃgg".comb.unique.elems
15:41 camelia rakudo-moar 7f9235: ( no output )
15:41 Zoffix m: "ⓖ g????????????????????????????????????????⒢   ǵgﻭﻭﻮБኗ????ġɢǥgᵍƃƃgg".comb.unique.elems.say
15:41 camelia rakudo-moar 7f9235: OUTPUT: «26␤»
15:41 Zoffix 26 commands!
15:50 llfourn joined #perl6-dev
15:54 lucasb "my $var does SomeRole" works. should "my $var does role {...}" work too?
15:54 jnthn No
15:55 jnthn The does trait expects a typename after it
15:55 lucasb well, 'my $x; $x does role {...}' works
15:55 jnthn Right, that's the does infix operator
15:55 lucasb ah, got it! thanks jnthn
15:56 lucasb difference between infix operator and an declaration
15:56 jnthn Note that my $x does Role is mixing into the container too
15:56 jnthn Whreas the does operator is talking about the value
15:56 jnthn Which makes a difference when it's a Scalar
16:12 brrt joined #perl6-dev
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16:36 IOninja ZOFVM: Files=1226, Tests=132924, 133 wallclock secs (22.01 usr  3.32 sys + 2402.17 cusr 312.99 csys = 2740.49 CPU)
16:43 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 76f71878da | (Zoffix Znet)++ | src/core/IO/Path.pm
16:43 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: [io grant] Do not cache IO::Path.e results
16:43 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
16:43 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Fixes RT#130889: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130889
16:43 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
16:43 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=130889
16:43 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: The problem in the ticket is due to IO::Path not setting $!e when
16:43 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: write happens on a write-mode opened non-existent file. However,
16:43 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: even if that were fixed, we're still open to issues where the file's
16:43 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: existence changes on the filesystem, so we can't really cache that.
16:43 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/76f71878da
16:44 Geth ¦ roast: 908348eef1 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | S32-io/io-path.t
16:44 Geth ¦ roast: Test IO::Path.e detects changes on filesystem
16:44 Geth ¦ roast:
16:44 Geth ¦ roast: RT#130889: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130889
16:44 Geth ¦ roast: Rakudo fix: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/76f71878da
16:44 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=130889
16:44 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/908348eef1
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17:01 IOninja RT#130887 "method is public, so .perl.EVAL ought to be round-tripping the data that it exposes, however that's stored"
17:01 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=130887
17:01 IOninja Doubt we can do that without setting the private attributes, which aren't preserved in .perl.EVAL roundtrip
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17:40 tadzik joined #perl6-dev
17:45 ugexe I'm surprised to see IO::Path.e caching go away (but glad). Seemed important last time I was getting stung by it
17:45 IOninja ugexe: why surprised?
17:46 ugexe I got the impression it was important for performance reasons from when I would comment on how I didn't like it
17:46 IOninja Ah.
17:47 * IOninja braces for lizmat's wrath then
17:47 ugexe ~1 year ago though
17:47 IOninja I removed it 'cause it's so obviously wrong to me; and I figured there'd be deoptimization, but I didn't even measure it
17:48 ugexe however if you do get rid of it that means you can get rid of instances of `"$!some_IO_Path".IO` (cache busting technique)
17:48 * IOninja waits for [Tux] to drop the news of new perf mark
17:50 llfourn joined #perl6-dev
17:52 agentzh joined #perl6-dev
17:57 IOninja star: with "/tmp/foo".IO { .e.say; .spurt("foo"); .e.say; .unlink; .e.say }
17:57 camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT: «True␤'/tmp/foo' is a directory, cannot do '.open' on a directory␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in any  at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 3096␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:57 IOninja star: with "/tmp/foozzz".IO { .e.say; .spurt("foo"); .e.say; .unlink; .e.say }
17:57 camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT: «False␤True␤True␤»
17:58 ugexe maybe `method e(--> Bool) { $!e = %*ENV<RAKUDO_IO_PATH_CACHE> && defined $!e ?? $!e !! Rakudo::Internals.FILETEST-E($.abspath) }`
17:58 IOninja ^ another bug due to (now removed) .e caching. That's two just involving Perl 6; but IMO it should consider filesystem operations too, so caching it seems like a very bad idea.
17:58 IOninja ewww env vars
18:00 |Tux| This is Rakudo version 2017.02-129-g76f71878d built on MoarVM version 2017.02-20-g773711e1
18:00 |Tux| csv-ip5xs        2.828
18:00 |Tux| test            12.534
18:00 |Tux| test-t           4.996 - 5.138
18:00 |Tux| csv-parser      12.890
18:00 IOninja m: say $*PERL.compiler.version
18:00 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: OUTPUT: «v2017.02.129.g.76.f.7187␤»
18:01 IOninja buggable: speed
18:01 buggable IOninja, ▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁██▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁ data for 2017-01-29–2017-02-28; range: 4.788s–999.999s
18:01 IOninja lulzwat
18:02 IOninja m: say (4.996 - 5.138)/2 - (4.800 - 4.827)/2
18:02 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: OUTPUT: «-0.0575␤»
18:02 IOninja So it's now... faster?
18:03 IOninja Too much variance to tell for sure, but I don't see anything groundbreakingly slow due to .e cache removal :)
18:03 IOninja And I'll tweak it more once the IO plan gets ratified.
18:03 ugexe i would look at build times, or things that have to do a large number of file accesses
18:03 IOninja mhm
18:04 IOninja star: my $p = "/tmp/foo".IO; for ^1000_000 { $ = $p.e }; say now - INIT now
18:04 camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT: «1.78135584␤»
18:04 IOninja m: my $p = "/tmp/foo".IO; for ^1000_000 { $ = $p.e }; say now - INIT now
18:04 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: OUTPUT: «3.29775591␤»
18:05 IOninja m: say 3.3/1.78
18:05 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: OUTPUT: «1.853933␤»
18:05 lizmat IOninja: no worries  :-)
18:05 IOninja *phew* :)
18:07 ugexe star: my $p = "/tmp/foo".IO; for ^1000_000 { $ = $p.mkdir }; say now - INIT now
18:08 camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT: «6.554999␤»
18:08 ugexe m: my $p = "/tmp/foo".IO; for ^1000_000 { $ = $p.mkdir }; say now - INIT now
18:08 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: OUTPUT: «5.7469882␤»
18:08 ugexe faster for that
18:08 IOninja cool
18:14 buggable joined #perl6-dev
18:14 IOninja buggable: speed
18:14 buggable IOninja, ▃▅▄▃▂▂▃▂▂▁▃▃▄▄▃▃▃▃▄▄▂▃▃▆▃▄▄▄▃▂█▂▇▂▁▃▁▁▂▁▁▃▃▅▃▂▃▄ data for 2017-01-29–2017-02-28; range: 4.788s–5.607s
18:25 japhb IOninja: FWIW, the general problem is that the stat(2) system call is both very common and very slow.  The perl 5 solution to this was that every filesystem test defaulted to doing a fresh stat() for correctness, but it would also keep a copy of the most recently gathered stat buffer around, and you could explicitly indicate you wanted a filesystem test to operate on the cached stat buffer rather than do a fresh stat().
18:26 japhb This made a huge difference when doing multiple tests on the same directory entry -- the difference for tree walkers was rather extreme.
18:27 japhb It also allowed you to explicitly take a stat() at a given point in time and make use of that data, without worrying that someone would change the filesystem out from under you while you were working on it.
18:27 japhb *working with that point-in-time stat() snapshot
18:29 IOninja note
18:29 IOninja *noted
18:30 IOninja Will address it in IO Action Plan
18:37 lizmat IOninja: in Perl 6 something like _ would be rather racy  :-)
18:39 timotimo _?
18:39 IOninja the last stated filehandle in Perl 5
18:39 timotimo oh
18:40 IOninja when you do stat tests on it it uses cached results
18:40 geekosaur yeh. neat but not at all concurrent
18:41 geekosaur (which means I avoided it in p5 even without threads; with experience, some things just smell like a disaster waiting to happen)
18:50 lizmat yeah, that really was from a single process single CPU world  :-)
18:51 llfourn joined #perl6-dev
18:52 geekosaur even that has concurrency if you yield a green thread at each I/O action
18:52 geekosaur (concurrent != parallel)
18:53 geekosaur not that p5 ever supported that, of course
19:13 IOninja Need more eyes on https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1020
19:17 ilmari[m] joined #perl6-dev
19:18 IOninja (that's the one to remove the error for my @a = @a, @a stuff)
19:19 perlpilot IOninja: I don't know how much brain you want connected to the eyes, but it looked good to me.  :)
19:20 * lizmat wonders how hard it would be to make nqp::backtrace return an IterationBuffer instead of an nqp::list
19:20 IOninja perlpilot: so you're OK with removing 6.c-errata tests that PR breaks?
19:22 perlpilot that or fixing them if they're trying to test something useful and it's just the X::Whatever name that's problematic
19:22 perlpilot (I don't know if the X::Syntax::Variable::Initializer was invented for the thing this reverts or not)
19:22 perlpilot If it was, then yes, remove them.
19:23 IOninja It was.
19:23 IOninja OK
19:23 lizmat reality check: Array.STORE is supposed to be eager, no ?
19:23 lizmat if so, we could probably do the same trick I did with %h = %a, %h
19:23 timotimo "mostly eager", no?
19:23 timotimo i.e. eager until it encounters a lazy?
19:23 IOninja m: my @a = lazy 1...Inf; say @a[^10]
19:23 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: OUTPUT: «(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)␤»
19:23 lizmat ah, yeah that  :-(
19:23 IOninja Dunno if that calls it...
19:24 lizmat yeah, it does
19:24 lizmat hmmmm
19:24 IOninja m: my @a = 1…Inf; say @a[^10]
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: OUTPUT: «(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)␤»
19:26 TimToady lizmat: yes, that nntp you linked indicates a new rakudo with an old nqp that doesn't provide setlang
19:28 TimToady so not really a slang problem, but a missing dep problem
19:28 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 6c873b9c93 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | t/02-rakudo/repl.t
19:28 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Add ticket number to a set of tests
19:28 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6c873b9c93
19:29 Ven joined #perl6-dev
19:29 IOninja ZOFVM: Files=1226, Tests=132926, 137 wallclock secs (22.71 usr  3.58 sys + 2511.66 cusr 333.40 csys = 2871.35 CPU)
19:29 IOninja stresstest is really fast now after jnthn++'s change to that test file :D
19:30 * TimToady finds it a bit odd to be on the opposite side of the world from europe, timing wise...
19:30 TimToady there aren't many p6 people in the middle of the pacific ocean...
19:31 lizmat good top of the morn, TimToady :-)
19:33 TimToady jnthn: to change stdout in place, presumably we'd do a reopen on PROCESS::OUT, not $*OUT, since it belongs to the whole process
19:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: cd47e2a806 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | src/core/REPL.pm
19:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Remove needless type constraint
19:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
19:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Variables are already Mus
19:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cd47e2a806
19:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 0f37dd38e0 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | t/02-rakudo/repl.t
19:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Test Nil line return in REPL ends up as Nil in output
19:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
19:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: RT#130874: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130874
19:36 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=130874
19:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Rakudo fix: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a274bdd122
19:36 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0f37dd38e0
19:37 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 7966dad5e9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/CallFrame.pm
19:37 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Make callframe() about 20% faster
19:37 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
19:37 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - lose the "level" attribute, it is only needed to initialize
19:37 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - make annotations an nqp::hash
19:37 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - adapt accessors accordingly
19:37 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7966dad5e9
19:40 [Coke] .ask zoffix aren't variables Any, not Mu by default?
19:40 [Coke] IOninja: oh, you re-renamed.
19:41 [Coke] m: my $output; say $output.WHAT;
19:41 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: OUTPUT: «(Any)␤»
19:42 IOninja [Coke]: parameters are. Variables and attributes are Mu type contraints.
19:42 IOninja [Coke]: the (Any) above is the default `is default` value
19:42 IOninja m: my $x = Mu;
19:42 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: ( no output )
19:43 IOninja m: my Any $x = Mu
19:43 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in assignment to $x; expected Any but got Mu (Mu)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
19:43 IOninja m: my $x is default(Mu); say $x.WHAT
19:43 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: OUTPUT: «(Mu)␤»
19:43 IOninja m: my $x; $x.VAR.of.say
19:43 camelia rakudo-moar 76f718: OUTPUT: «(Mu)␤»
19:44 yoleaux2 joined #perl6-dev
19:46 Geth ¦ roast: c7bf3a0aa4 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | S32-list/sort.t
19:46 Geth ¦ roast: Test .sort on reified empty array does not crash
19:46 Geth ¦ roast:
19:46 Geth ¦ roast: RT#130866: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130866
19:46 Geth ¦ roast: Rakudo fix: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/75e070fdea
19:46 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c7bf3a0aa4
19:46 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=130866
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20:00 Geth ¦ roast/6.c-errata: 2c76bfa77e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | S09-typed-arrays/hashes.t
20:00 Geth ¦ roast/6.c-errata: Fix broken test in S09-typed-arrays/hashes.t
20:00 Geth ¦ roast/6.c-errata:
20:00 Geth ¦ roast/6.c-errata: The test mistakenly tests `a` key that already exists in %h prior
20:00 Geth ¦ roast/6.c-errata: to type-check tests being run. The key that is being auto-vivified
20:00 Geth ¦ roast/6.c-errata: in is `z`, not `a`, so change test to test for `z`'s auto-vivification.
20:00 Geth ¦ roast/6.c-errata:
20:00 Geth ¦ roast/6.c-errata: The only reason this test was passing in the past is because failed
20:00 Geth ¦ roast/6.c-errata: <…commit message has 9 more lines…>
20:00 Geth ¦ roast/6.c-errata: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2c76bfa77e
20:00 IOninja s/array/hash/
20:05 lizmat oops, I should have done that  :-(
20:11 Geth ¦ roast: 3cd5126000 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | S09-typed-arrays/hashes.t
20:11 Geth ¦ roast: Test self-referential (in top-level) hash asignment
20:11 Geth ¦ roast:
20:11 Geth ¦ roast: RT#130870: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130870
20:11 Geth ¦ roast: Rakudo fix: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ae7bcf1b8e1fa6
20:11 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3cd5126000
20:11 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=130870
20:43 Geth ¦ roast: af2d786d40 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | S17-supply/syntax.t
20:43 Geth ¦ roast: Test `next` in `whenever`
20:43 Geth ¦ roast:
20:43 Geth ¦ roast: Rakudo implementation:
20:43 Geth ¦ roast: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f97d5c2aafc8427bfce12794
20:43 Geth ¦ roast:
20:43 Geth ¦ roast: RT#130601: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130601
20:43 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=130601
20:43 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/af2d786d40
20:54 llfourn joined #perl6-dev
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21:12 lizmat shouldn't List.reverse return a Seq rather than a List ?
21:30 agentzh joined #perl6-dev
21:37 moritz lizmat: there's not much point in making that lazy, since you have to reify the original list anyway to be able to reverse
21:38 lizmat no, not true, if we have an iterator that takes the reified list but traverses it in the opposite direction, we wouldn't need to copy it
21:38 lizmat currently, .reverse creates a reversed reified list and returns that
21:39 lizmat if it were to return a Seq, that wouldn't be needed
21:39 lizmat and it would then only create the reversed reified when really needed
21:39 lizmat and not in a case such as for @a.reverse { }
21:40 moritz you have to be careful with lazy Array.reverse, so that changes to the array aren't reflected in a lazy .reverse
21:41 lizmat the Array.iterator.push-all creates new containers afaik
21:41 lizmat so that would be covered
21:47 IOninja Would it be possible for me to get a commit bit to rakudo/star? Gonna give #78 a go when I get home.
21:56 llfourn joined #perl6-dev
22:00 lizmat jnthn TimToady opinions about having List.reverse return a Seq rather than a List ?  speculation mentions returning an Iterable, which maps to Seq post-GLR if I remember correctly
22:00 lizmat jnthn TimToady it would prevent unnecessary copying of a reified list in many cases
22:00 lizmat jnthn TimToady like for @a.reverse { }
22:02 jnthn lizmat: Umm...I'm too tired to think straight any more, but it would be a breaking change potentially; my @a := @b.reverse; for example
22:02 jnthn But it's arguably better as Seq
22:03 * jnthn goes to rest :)
22:03 lizmat there are a few spectests that break, but they check for Listiness specifically
22:03 lizmat good night, jnthn
22:03 jnthn 'night
22:11 [Coke] IOninja: I don't appear to have access to grant you access to star.
22:12 [Coke] IOninja: tag jnthn, masak, moritz, perlpilot, pmichaud
22:15 IOninja *tag*
22:29 lizmat good night, #perl6-dev!
22:29 IOninja night
22:45 pyrimidine joined #perl6-dev
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23:08 pyrimidine joined #perl6-dev
23:16 MasterDuke timotimo: aside from the not-written-yet spesh bisect tool, what would you suggest as the next step to troubleshoot that spesh/EVAL/div bug that i/Zoffix found?
23:59 llfourn joined #perl6-dev

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