Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-dev, 2017-07-05

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Time Nick Message
00:09 lizmat joined #perl6-dev
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01:04 ggoebel read the recent reddit thread... thought the following lessons learned from Audrey Tang might be worth reviewing: https://medium.com/@audrey.tang/lessons-i-ve-learned-32f5d8107e34
01:18 TimToady +1
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01:49 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
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04:36 samcv » doesn't use threading currently right?
04:36 samcv so that shouldn't be causing any crashes?
04:52 brrt joined #perl6-dev
06:04 [Tux] This is Rakudo version 2017.06-136-gd5d3bd276 built on MoarVM version 2017.06-30-g389e9732
06:04 [Tux] csv-ip5xs        2.671
06:04 [Tux] test            12.645
06:04 [Tux] test-t           4.099 - 4.145
06:04 [Tux] csv-parser      12.681
06:20 TimToady joined #perl6-dev
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06:50 hgusa as a lurker outsider of the community, reading Zoffix lose an argument with chromatic is much more fun than reading a cheesy blog from a minister without portfolio of a fictive country
06:51 nine ggoebel: thanks for sharing Audrey's lessions!
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07:53 llfourn +1 I hadn't seen that one.
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08:35 Zoffix hgusa, glad you enjoyed yourself!
08:35 Zoffix samcv: right, not yet.
08:36 samcv thanks
08:36 samcv that's what i thought too
08:36 samcv just wanted to double check
08:41 Zoffix I don't get Audrey's lessons.
08:47 Zoffix Though there's one new one I can pitch in: people love drama. Hell, that reddit convo happend like a week ago, but people still can't stfu about it. Even someone lurking in the logs.
08:48 Zoffix But no one bothered to correct me on my proposal to use uint64 for rat denominators and say that'd might end up paying too much for boxing all the time, because numerator can be an Int supposedly!
08:53 nine Zoffix: just to let you know, I'm pretty hurt right now for not even getting any kind of response for my apology.
08:57 jnthn Zoffix: The numerator is defined as an Int, but that doesn't mean there's no saving possible, it does mean that you might have to introduce a division op that takes a Int and uint64
08:58 Zoffix jnthn: OK thanks.
08:59 jnthn Also I don't see any discussion of that in the backlog here?
08:59 Zoffix Exactly! But you see discussion about Audrey lessons and the reddit thread!
09:00 jnthn Yeah, can't people do them on
09:00 jnthn #perl6 so we can work here? :P
09:00 Zoffix Unless you mean my original "road map" plan: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-07-03#i_14820738
09:00 jnthn huh, dns fails to resolve on that :S
09:02 jnthn And that's probably just out of local history
09:02 * llfourn also sometimes has DNS issues with perlgeek.de
09:03 Zoffix nine: sorry for storming out yesterday when you were giving your help. I was just annoyed the low-value crap from reddit from a week ago was getting dragged in to #perl6-dev. I don't have any goal or plans with chromatic or anyone else—whether they're positive or negative. What I did on reddit is just pass time on a boring bus ride, so all the advice and lessons about how to win arguments and bring peace
09:03 Zoffix to world will fall on my deaf ears.
09:04 nine Fair enough.
09:04 Zoffix Here's a copy-paste of that log link: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/c658efaf8e554f570834b73c057e7621
09:09 jnthn heh, finally it loaded
09:24 samcv Zoffix, did you see this regression. https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131703 your commit is linked that introduced it
09:27 Zoffix samcv: just saw the mention in #perl6 ... I guess ZofBot doesn't recognize "zoffix's" as a mention of me :/
09:28 Zoffix m: say "zoffix's" ~~ / «zoffix» /
09:28 camelia rakudo-moar d5d3bd: OUTPUT: «「zoffix」␤»
09:28 Zoffix weird
09:29 Zoffix Oh, it's there in my Twitter log, I just only looked at the last message :}
09:32 Zoffix c: f539a624043f5796fcefcca83412ee1ab66e0c4d~1 @*ARGS = 'meow'; get.say
09:32 committable6 Zoffix, ¦f539a624043f5796fcefcca83412ee1ab66e0c4d~1: «(HANDLED) Unable to open file 'meow'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/pSNune1vHE line 1␤»
09:32 Zoffix samcv: how do you figure out the regression commit? Seems the same issue exists prior to it?
09:32 Zoffix mc: @*ARGS = 'meow'; get.say
09:32 committable6 Zoffix, ¦2015.12: «(HANDLED) Unable to open file 'meow'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/HwL39czJzp line 1␤»
09:32 Zoffix And in 2017.05 release
09:34 Zoffix mc: @*ARGS = 'meow'; sub MAIN ($x) { get.say }
09:34 committable6 Zoffix, ¦2015.12: «(HANDLED) Unable to open file 'meow'␤  in sub MAIN at /tmp/NH9yzaD84J line 1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/NH9yzaD84J line 1␤»
09:35 Zoffix m: @*ARGS = 'meow'; sub MAIN ($x) { get.say }
09:35 camelia rakudo-moar d5d3bd: OUTPUT: «Failed to open file /home/camelia/meow: No such file or directory␤  in sub MAIN at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:35 Zoffix Ahhhh
09:35 Zoffix The failure ends up handled in pre-commit
09:36 Zoffix So I'd say that script was working for the wrong reason and the CatHandle swap fixed a bug that used to silence a failure.
09:42 Zoffix samcv: wrote out explanation and closed the ticket: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131703#txn-1471842
09:46 Zoffix "<samcv> but regardless shouldn't be using the arg as a file since it should be taken by MAIN"
09:48 Zoffix Dunno. That get() would unambiguously mean $*IN inside MAIN then, because the only way to get inside is to "handle" all the args, so IMO that code should just use $*IN or just do $*ARGFILES = $*IN if it wants to to use argless IO routines.
09:48 samcv Zoffix, so the argument doesn't get eaten by MAIN?
09:48 Zoffix No
09:48 samcv i thought $*IN should be stdin
09:48 samcv hmm
09:48 Zoffix it is.
09:48 samcv that... is very confusing
09:48 samcv oh
09:48 samcv get doesn't use STDIN it uses argfilesL
09:49 Zoffix get() lines() slurp() and words() operate on $*ARGFILES. $*ARGFILES (by default) is a CatHandle of @*ARGS, unless @*ARGS are empty, in which case it uses $*IN
09:49 Zoffix Right.
09:49 samcv ah ok
09:49 samcv why is argfiles set when MAIN accepts a variable though?
09:50 samcv that is the odd functionality i think. i could understand if there were no args to main. but since it gets set as a variable in the signature
09:50 samcv hm
09:50 Zoffix They're just unrelated. The "$*ARGFILES (by default) is a CatHandle of @*ARGS" behaviour exists, regardless of whether you used MAIN or not
09:53 Zoffix The alternative is that $*ARGFILES would become $*IN the moment you use MAIN (or inside MAIN), so that begs the question why not just leave it as @*ARGS and write code inside as using $*IN
09:53 Zoffix Maybe it should, dunno.
09:53 samcv yeah
09:53 samcv worth considering
09:54 Zoffix 'cause it being @*ARGS isn't very useful. The second you have any named args, you no longer can use $*ARGFILES
09:54 samcv as i think it would be the least suprising to people that way. since MAIN is supposed to be all nice and good
09:54 Zoffix huggable: 6.d
09:54 huggable Zoffix, Proposals for 6.d language: https://github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master/v6d.pod
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10:00 Zoffix Yeah. $*IN sounds goo. Wrote it up for 6.d: https://github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master/v6d.pod#make-argfiles--in-or-ioargfilesnewin-inside-main
10:06 samcv nice :)
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11:39 lizmat .ask masak do you have any thoughts on deprecating (<+) in favour of baggy semantics of (<) and (<=) ?
11:39 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to masak.
11:39 lizmat .ask labster do you have any thoughts on deprecating (<+) in favour of baggy semantics of (<) and (<=) ?
11:39 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to labster.
11:39 lizmat .ask TimToady do you have any thoughts on deprecating (<+) in favour of baggy semantics of (<) and (<=) ?
11:39 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
11:44 lizmat m: dd @^10  # not what I expected, but correct nonetheless  :-)
11:44 camelia rakudo-moar d5d3bd: OUTPUT: «one([], 10)␤»
11:49 timotimo yup, earliest match wins
11:49 timotimo well, that and @^a would be valid, but @^10 wouldn't be
11:49 timotimo so it goes down the path of "is this a placeholder signature parameter?"
11:55 Zoffix huggable: cpan testers api :is: CPAN testers API: https://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/6lb207/cpan_testers_has_an_api/
11:55 huggable Zoffix, Added cpan testers api as CPAN testers API: https://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/6lb207/cpan_testers_has_an_api/
11:55 Zoffix prolly something that can be baked into modules.perl6.org
12:46 Zoffix Gonna do a few passes of straightening up &SEQUENCE, while I tease out all that it does, for my article
12:47 Zoffix buggable: toast
12:47 buggable Zoffix, Between 2017.06-46-g43c1767 and 2017.06: 6 (0.73%) modules got burnt; 11 (1.33%) got unsucced; 199 (24.09%) out of 826 modules appear unusable. See https://toast.perl6.party/ for details.
12:47 * Zoffix makes another toast
12:48 timotimo i'm hungry now
12:51 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 2504798464 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | 2 files
12:51 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Make Setty eqv Setty between 2x and 3.5x faster
12:51 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
12:51 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - 2x in case of different number of elements
12:51 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - 3.5x in case of equivalence on a 26-element Set
12:51 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - also move it from set_operators.pm to Setty.pm
12:51 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2504798464
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13:01 Element80 So what's happening with mix.t file?
13:01 Element80 t/spec/S03-operators/mix.t                                      (Wstat: 1024 Tests: 66 Failed: 4)
13:01 Element80 Failed tests:  27, 30, 32, 65
13:01 Element80 ZOFVM: Files=1259, Tests=141105, 113 wallclock secs (18.85 usr  3.26 sys + 2138.17 cusr 205.49 csys = 2365.77 CPU)
13:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 001135ca2a | (Zoffix Znet)++ | src/core/operators.pm
13:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Straighten up &SEQUENCE a bit
13:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/001135ca2a
13:10 lizmat Element80: it's under investigation  :-)
13:12 Element80 lizmat: is it the (<+) thing?
13:13 lizmat yeah, related to (<+)
13:13 Element80 Ah
13:14 lizmat I would like to hear masak labster TimToady's thoughts on deprecating (<+) before doing anything
13:30 Element80 buggable: draw
13:30 buggable Element80, The next Accidental /win Lottery draw will happen in -1 weeks, 2 days, 10 hours, 29 minutes, and 47 seconds. Currently have 0 ballots submitted by 0 users!
13:30 * Element80 wonders who won
13:31 Element80 Hehe, jnthn did :)
13:31 timotimo yeah
13:31 timotimo i remember celebrating
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13:36 Element80 buggable: testers f878354a-6183-11e7-89a5-c5f577a92919
13:36 buggable Element80, Proc::Q:ver(1.001003) test result PASS. See more at http://api.cpantesters.org/v3/report/f878354a-6183-11e7-89a5-c5f577a92919
13:36 Element80 hehe neat :)
13:37 * Element80 hasn't figured out how to fetch info for Perl 6 dists by name yet
13:38 Element80 Hm. Only now do I realize the "see more" URL isn't human-friendly if you're not using Firefox :)
13:39 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 49b1b03b02 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Baggy.pm
13:39 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Make Baggy eqv Baggy upto 3.5x faster
13:39 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
13:39 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - 3.5x in case of equivalence on a 26-element Bag
13:39 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - no improvement on different number of elements, as that was already optimized
13:39 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/49b1b03b02
13:42 dogbert17 lizmat: if I were to write tests for RT #131303, where do you want me to put them?
13:42 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131303
13:43 lizmat dogbert17: I think that's covered in S03-operators/set_difference.t
13:44 lizmat check out if there are any cases missing there  :-)
13:47 dogbert17 lizmat: will do
13:51 Element80 .tell masak you have a bunch of PRs on this module: https://github.com/masak/data-pretty/pulls
13:51 yoleaux Element80: I'll pass your message to masak.
13:51 Element80 buggable: author masak
13:51 buggable Element80, Found 12 dists for masak. See https://temp.perl6.party/buggable/8490434769545881499262717.html
13:53 Element80 .tell masak Actually a whole ton of PRs are waiting for merge in virtually all of your dists: https://temp.perl6.party/buggable/8490434769545881499262717.html
13:53 yoleaux Element80: I'll pass your message to masak.
14:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 93d81d61a6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Setty.pm
14:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Make Setty.ACCEPTS(Setty) about 3.5x faster
14:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
14:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - the difference between eqv and ACCEPTS is the strict type check only
14:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - moved most of logic from eqv to ACCEPTS
14:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/93d81d61a6
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14:22 lizmat afk&
14:33 Element80 ugh
14:33 Element80 It doesn't take 1 hour to dump data as text -_-
14:34 Element80 Data::Dump::Tree-- over-engineered
14:34 dogbert17 Element80: would it be possible for you to close RT #131561, I see that tests have been added to roast
14:34 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131561
14:35 * dogbert17 Element80 == Mercury ?
14:38 Element80 dogbert17: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LTxgx3KR30
14:38 Element80 It's a band that uses Perl 6. That song is about Promises
14:38 Element80 :trollface:
14:39 Element80 dogbert17: how come you don't close it?
14:40 dogbert17 Element80: I was afraid you should ask that :) it doesn't work, can only close my own bugs
14:40 Element80 dogbert17: what's your rt username?
14:41 dogbert17 dogbert17
14:41 dogbert17 sry, no my email address
14:41 Element80 What's the email address?
14:42 dogbert17 jan-olof.hendig(at)bredband.net
14:43 Element80 dogbert17: when was the last time you tried to close tickets? You're listed as admin...
14:44 dogbert17 I closed one just a few minutes ago 131303
14:45 Element80 dogbert17: and did you try closing 131561 ?
14:47 dogbert17 wtf, it worked, Element80++
14:47 Element80 ok then :)
14:48 dogbert17 now I can go on a closing spree :)
14:51 dogbert17 Element80: suggestion for where I should put tests for RT #131529
14:51 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131529
14:56 Element80 dogbert17: I'm guessing add `byte` to @int-types at the top of S02-types/int-uint.t and fix up the rest of the file to handle it, if needed.
14:57 buggable_ joined #perl6-dev
14:58 dogbert17 Element80: thx
14:58 buggable joined #perl6-dev
14:59 Element80 buggable: testers f878354a-6183-11e7-89a5-c5f577a92919
14:59 buggable Element80, Proc::Q:ver(1.001003) test result PASS. See more at https://temp.perl6.party/buggable/4544139040580451499266756.txt
14:59 Element80 That's bettah
15:11 Geth ¦ roast: dogbert17++ created pull request #275: Add test for RT #131529
15:11 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/pull/275
15:11 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131529
15:14 dogbert17 Element80: should I merge or do you see anything bogus?
15:16 Element80 dogbert17: looks good
15:16 dogbert17 thx
15:17 Element80 Though not what I meant when I add `byte` to @int-types :) It's a tangent point though, so I guess it don't matter for the ticket
15:17 Geth ¦ roast: 0331647a61 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | S02-types/int-uint.t
15:17 Geth ¦ roast: Add test for RT #131529
15:17 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0331647a61
15:17 Geth ¦ roast: 3bc8e6df53 | dogbert17++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | S02-types/int-uint.t
15:17 Geth ¦ roast: Merge pull request #275 from dogbert17/test-rt-131529
15:17 Geth ¦ roast:
15:17 Geth ¦ roast: Add test for RT #131529
15:17 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131529
15:17 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131529
15:17 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3bc8e6df53
15:19 Element80 Filed an Issue: https://github.com/perl6/roast/issues/276
15:21 dogbert17 do we really have more than one byte type, e.g. byte1, byte8 etc?
15:22 Element80 Don't think so
15:24 Ven`` joined #perl6-dev
15:54 Geth ¦ roast: dogbert17++ created pull request #277: Add tests for RT #131273
15:54 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/pull/277
15:54 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131273
15:57 Geth ¦ roast: ed74b5b449 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | 2 files
15:57 Geth ¦ roast: Add tests for RT #131273
15:57 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ed74b5b449
15:57 Geth ¦ roast: d05653ace7 | dogbert17++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 2 files
15:57 Geth ¦ roast: Merge pull request #277 from dogbert17/test-rt-131273
15:57 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131273
15:57 Geth ¦ roast:
15:57 Geth ¦ roast: Add tests for RT #131273
15:57 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131273
15:57 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d05653ace7
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16:17 Element80 this is weird. The toast run for HEAD appearntly completed fine without my having to kill anything
16:19 Element80 m: $*PERL.compiler.version.say
16:19 camelia rakudo-moar 93d81d: OUTPUT: «v2017.06.140.g.93.d.81.d.61.a␤»
16:19 Element80 Yup. All the data seems to be there: https://toaster.perl6.party/
16:19 Element80 Unless I stroked off... but no, pretty sure I didn't need to kill anything.
16:20 Element80 buggable: toast
16:20 buggable Element80, Between 2017.06-140-g93d81d6 and 2017.06: 9 (1.08%) modules got burnt; 12 (1.45%) got unsucced; 201 (24.22%) out of 830 modules appear unusable. See https://toast.perl6.party/ for details.
16:21 Element80 or maybe I did kill it. I recall killing UNIX::Daemonize, but it says "Succ" for 2017.06 :|
16:22 Element80 Oh, "Dubious, test returned 1 (wstat 256, 0x100)". So it's not Succ :/
16:23 Element80 And it got "Ambiguous use of »; use >> instead to mean hyper" warning  up in it :/
16:23 Element80 "daemonize(«rm $pidlockfile», :pid-file($pidlockfile))"
16:24 Element80 .ask TimToady is the `Ambiguous use of »` supposed to warn in cases like `run «rm $pidlockfile»` ? That's really annoying. I got it while running normal code and I see some ecosystem usage that now has the same warning pop out from their code.
16:24 jnthn .oO( Unless you...what?! )
16:24 yoleaux Element80: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
16:25 Element80 jnthn: stroked off == had a stroke
16:25 jnthn Ah...it's...worse...in my dialect. :P
16:25 Element80 heh
16:25 Element80 greppable6: »
16:25 greppable6 Element80, Sorry, can't do that
16:25 jnthn The hyper check does seem a bit overzealous
16:26 jnthn It'd be nice if it only triggered when the thing actually successfully parsed as a hyper
16:30 jnthn Time for some break, dinner, etc.
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: bc1b7361e6 | (Douglas Schrag)++ | t/hll/06-sprintf.t
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: Add tests for sprintf octal with precision
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp:
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: Test octal precision with and without the '#' flag.
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: Ensure conformance with POSIX sprintf.
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/bc1b7361e6
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: cd8d6ae046 | (Douglas Schrag)++ | src/HLL/sprintf.nqp
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: Do not add condition leading '0' if already present
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp:
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: If precision is sufficient to pad octal with a leading '0',
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: then no additional prefix is needed with the '#' flag.
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/cd8d6ae046
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: 1a90373c0f | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 2 files
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: Merge pull request #364 from dmaestro/issue/353-sprintf-octal-padding
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp:
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: Issue/353 sprintf octal padding
16:32 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/1a90373c0f
16:43 Geth ¦ nqp: 17c795cf6b | (Zoffix Znet)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION
16:43 Geth ¦ nqp: Bump MoarVM
16:43 Geth ¦ nqp:
16:43 Geth ¦ nqp: MoarVM bump brought changes:
16:43 Geth ¦ nqp: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/compare/2017.06-29-ga51ba62...2017.06-37-g4e29e4c
16:43 Geth ¦ nqp:
16:43 Geth ¦ nqp: 4e29e4c Fix an accidental nested redeclaration in proc.
16:43 Geth ¦ nqp: 33e46e2 Eliminate duplicate code in utf8 decoder.
16:43 Geth ¦ nqp: <…commit message has 6 more lines…>
16:44 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/17c795cf6b
16:44 Geth ¦ nqp: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/compare/2017.06-29-ga51ba62...2017.06-37-g4e29e4c
16:44 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: d7e1046678 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION
16:44 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Bump NQP
16:44 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
16:44 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: NQP bump brought changes:
16:44 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/2017.06-13-gc5fc79f...2017.06-35-g17c795c
16:44 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
16:44 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 17c795c Bump MoarVM
16:44 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 1a90373 Merge pull request #364 from dmaestro/issue/353-sprintf-octal-padding
16:44 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: <…commit message has 32 more lines…>
16:44 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d7e1046678
16:44 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/2017.06-13-gc5fc79f...2017.06-35-g17c795c
16:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 99236d4009 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | docs/release_guide.pod
16:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Add more planned release dates
16:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/99236d4009
16:52 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: ff4039ca93 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | docs/release_guide.pod
16:52 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Move cautionary note
16:52 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
16:52 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: to be *before* the potentially dangerous instruction
16:52 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ff4039ca93
16:54 nine huggable: 6.d
16:54 huggable nine, Proposals for 6.d language: https://github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master/v6d.pod
16:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: b3c14c6d8f | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | docs/release_guide.pod
16:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Remove "developmental" from releases list heading
16:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b3c14c6d8f
17:04 Element80 pmurias: [Coke]++ was working on updated docs website. That's all the replacement work I'm aware of.
17:08 Ven`` joined #perl6-dev
17:17 TimToady jnthn: but that's the point, it didn't successfully parse as a hyper, but gave a different error downstream
17:17 yoleaux 11:39Z <lizmat> TimToady: do you have any thoughts on deprecating (<+) in favour of baggy semantics of (<) and (<=) ?
17:17 yoleaux 16:24Z <Element80> TimToady: is the `Ambiguous use of »` supposed to warn in cases like `run «rm $pidlockfile»` ? That's really annoying. I got it while running normal code and I see some ecosystem usage that now has the same warning pop out from their code.
17:20 TimToady jnthn: we could perhaps make an exception list of things that are unlikely to be a postfix, but it's not impossible to have a postfix that starts with almost anything
17:21 Geth ¦ roast: dogbert17++ created pull request #278: Added tests for RT #131272
17:21 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/pull/278
17:21 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131272
17:22 TimToady though I suppose if people start defining things like postfix:<;)> they deserve what they get ;)
17:22 Geth ¦ roast: e4302e5d7d | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | 2 files
17:22 Geth ¦ roast: Added tests for RT #131272
17:22 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e4302e5d7d
17:22 Geth ¦ roast: 68d34de4b8 | dogbert17++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 2 files
17:22 Geth ¦ roast: Merge pull request #278 from dogbert17/test-rt-131272
17:22 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131272
17:22 Geth ¦ roast:
17:22 Geth ¦ roast: Added tests for RT #131272
17:22 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131272
17:22 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/68d34de4b8
17:24 TimToady lizmat: on the (<+) thing, my preferences lean toward getting rid of it if we can, and making Baggy types more contagious with respect to Setty types, on the theory that sets are mostly just constrained bags
17:25 TimToady however, I missed the carpage earlier that caused the reversion, due to the drains braking in my house rather badly...
17:25 TimToady er, *breaking
17:26 TimToady but I don't like the idea of set operations coercing bags to sets and throwing away information
17:28 TimToady and of course the drains break when we have kids and grandkids visiting, so we've been dodging plumbers in hazmat suits and spending far too much time driving out to restrooms...
17:43 Element80 TimToady: what if we don't detect any postfixes but merely warn if there's stuff after » that's being parsed while still inside the `«»` quote constuct?
17:43 Element80 i.e. the `»` is not the closing delimiter
17:45 Element80 m: my $x = 42; my %h = :42a; say %h<<42 $x>>;
17:45 camelia rakudo-moar b3c14c: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤    Ambiguous use of >>; use » instead to mean hyper, or insert whitespace before >> to mean a quote terminator (or use different delimiters?)␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3my $x = 42; my %h = :42a; say %h<<42 $x7⏏5>>;…»
17:45 Element80 It warns even here.
17:45 TimToady the » is already being parsed as a hyper at that point
17:46 Element80 I see.
17:46 TimToady it's relying on the benign failure of parsing a postfixes after the », and that's a problem with extensible postfix notation
17:47 TimToady we can guess that ; and ) are unlikely to be the beginnings of a postfix, but we can't be sure
17:48 TimToady guessing may be good enough, but then there will just be other places that people expect $foo>> to dwim
17:48 Element80 m: say [[<x>],]
17:48 camelia rakudo-moar b3c14c: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in bracketed infix; couldn't find final ']' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say [[<7⏏5x>],]␤»
17:48 Element80 ^ is that the same sort of issue? The solution is to put the space rather than fixing ocde?
17:48 Element80 *codew
17:49 Element80 m: say [[ <x>],]
17:49 camelia rakudo-moar b3c14c: OUTPUT: «[[x]]␤»
17:49 TimToady reductions are one of the two places where we explicitly backtrack
17:50 TimToady and it commits to < being an infix before it ever thinks about circumfix:<[ ]>
17:50 TimToady the dwim in that rule is that if there are any spaces inside, it assumed it cannot be a reduction
17:51 Element80 ok, then I'll just close https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131701#ticket-history
17:52 TimToady m: say [[x]]
17:52 camelia rakudo-moar b3c14c: OUTPUT: «No zero-arg meaning for infix:<x>␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:53 TimToady m: say [[x ]]
17:53 camelia rakudo-moar b3c14c: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    x used at line 1␤␤»
17:54 TimToady and the rationale for the dwim is that most lists have multiple members, which most people separate with a comma and a space
17:54 TimToady so another spot where we optimize against code golf...
17:55 Element80 Well, I was writing [[<foo bar ber>], [<meow moo>]]
17:55 TimToady most people never even realize there's a formal ambiguity between reduction operators and array composers
17:55 Element80 m: with [[<foo bar ber>], [<meow moo>]] {}
17:55 camelia rakudo-moar b3c14c: ( no output )
17:55 Element80 Oh maybe I wasn't
17:57 TimToady but this is also part of the reason for forbidding whitespace in metaops in general
17:58 Element80 Ah, OK, I wrote the above, but then shortened <foo bar ber> to just <foo> to get 1-el array. Though this was test code, not real program :)
17:59 TimToady P5 had many more dwims of that sort, which is why we have fewer :)
17:59 Element80 :)
18:01 Geth ¦ star: tbrowder++ created pull request #90: add specific instructions for a system installation
18:01 Geth ¦ star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/pull/90
18:17 dct joined #perl6-dev
18:25 Geth ¦ roast: 94ba24dc09 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | 2 files
18:25 Geth ¦ roast: Test for baggy semantics on (<) and (<=) again
18:25 Geth ¦ roast:
18:25 Geth ¦ roast: This reverts 3bab9ac2a397a2728 and f8d8bff1cc159db4b3fe
18:25 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/94ba24dc09
18:27 jnthn TimToady: In the original program I'm pretty sure $foo>>[0] was being parsed as a valid hyper
18:27 jnthn (The one the RT was originally about)
18:29 Element80 Yeah, and in `run «foo $bar»` the `»` also gets parsed as a hyper, and when it fails to find an infix that's when it knows it's the closing delim instead. That's how understand the problem at least.
18:31 Element80 m: sub postfix:<♥> { $^a.say }; say <<foo bar»♥()>>
18:31 camelia rakudo-moar b3c14c: OUTPUT: «(foo bar»♥())␤»
18:31 * Element80 shrugs
18:32 Element80 m: sub postfix:<♥> { $^a.say }; my $x = "foo"; say <<foo $x»♥>>
18:32 camelia rakudo-moar b3c14c: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤    Ambiguous use of >>; use » instead to mean hyper, or insert whitespace before >> to mean a quote terminator (or use different delimiters?)␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3$^a.say }; my $x = "foo"; say <<foo $x»♥7⏏5>…»
18:32 jnthn Yes, but "parsed as a valid hyper" I meant that it could something that completed it afterwards
18:32 jnthn *by
18:32 jnthn *could parse
18:33 jnthn I mean, if it fails to parse it as a hyper + thing after then it just falls back to being the quote terminator that was probably intended
18:34 jnthn So if we only complain when we parsed a >> as a hyper and it actually was finally interpreted as one, and it could conflict, then we'd complain
18:35 jnthn But if we just saw the >> part and the thing after didn't work out as a hyper and we fell back to treating it as a quote terminator anyway, we could just silently let it pass
18:35 jnthn Which would unbust the new warnings we've got
18:36 Element80 cool
18:41 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 75797af30d | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | 3 files
18:41 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Re-instate baggy semantics of (<) and (<=)
18:41 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
18:41 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - as indicated by https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-07-05#i_14830389
18:41 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: - this reverts 724cbca71046a1858a8d398 and d4436e18ce1e49eb74733
18:41 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/75797af30d
19:04 Element80 Seems to do the trick
19:04 * Element80 stresstests
19:09 Element80 ZOFFLOP: t/spec/S17-procasync/kill.t
19:09 Element80 ZOFFLOP: t/spec/S17-supply/syntax.t
19:09 Element80 ZOFVM: Files=1259, Tests=141127, 120 wallclock secs (20.44 usr  3.23 sys + 2261.25 cusr 217.42 csys = 2502.34 CPU)
19:10 Element80 hm, that's a high count of secs :|
19:10 * Element80 stresstests again just to be sure
19:12 Element80 ZOFVM: Files=1259, Tests=141136, 113 wallclock secs (20.14 usr  3.66 sys + 2211.79 cusr 194.50 csys = 2430.09 CPU)
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: d39f7b9aff | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Make ambiguous » warning less zealous
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Only warn when we sucessfully parsed a hyper and are about to
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: make an AST for it instead of right when we spot » or >>
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Fixes unwanted warnings in stuff like `run «foo $bar»` while still
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: keeping them for cases like the problematic one in the ticket[^1]
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: the original fix[^2] fixed.
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: [1] https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131695
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: [2] https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d5d3bd27635e43516c25d6b
19:17 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d39f7b9aff
19:18 Element80 That still warns for stuff like `my $x = 42; say «foo $x»[0]»` but not for `my $x = 42; say «foo $x»`
19:33 buggable joined #perl6-dev
19:40 buggable joined #perl6-dev
19:43 dogbert17 does anyone have suggestions as to in which file I should add tests for RT #131386 ?
19:43 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131386
19:44 Element80 S02-types/baggy.t ?
19:45 Element80 If I were writing tests for that ticket, I'd pre-emptively test all Set/SetHash, Bag/BagHash, and Mix/MixHash
19:46 Element80 m: for <Set Bag Mix> X ('', 'Hash') { my %x := ()."$_"; %x<a> }
19:46 camelia rakudo-moar d39f7b: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Quoted method name requires parenthesized arguments. If you meant to concatenate two strings, use '~'.␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3g Mix> X ('', 'Hash') { my %x := ()."$_"7⏏5; %x<a> }␤»
19:46 Element80 m: for <Set Bag Mix> X ('', 'Hash') { my %x := ()."$_"(); %x<a> }
19:46 camelia rakudo-moar d39f7b: OUTPUT: «No such method 'Set ' for invocant of type 'List'. Did you mean any of these?␤    Seq␤    Set␤    Str␤␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
19:46 dogbert17 heh
19:48 Element80 m: use Test; plan 1; subtest 'can access key of empty list coerced to type' => { my @tests = <Set SetHash  Bag BagHash  Mix MixHash  Map Hash>; plan +@tests { lives-ok { my %x := ()."$_"(); %x<a> }, $_ } }
19:48 camelia rakudo-moar d39f7b: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unexpected block in infix position (missing statement control word before the expression?)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sh  Mix MixHash  Map Hash>; plan +@tests7⏏5 { lives-ok { my %x := ()."$_"(); %x<a> …»
19:48 Element80 m: use Test; plan 1; subtest 'can access key of empty list coerced to type' => { my @tests = <Set SetHash  Bag BagHash  Mix MixHash  Map Hash>; plan +@tests; for @tests { lives-ok { my %x := ()."$_"(); %x<a> }, $_ } }
19:48 camelia rakudo-moar d39f7b: OUTPUT: «1..1␤    1..8␤    ok 1 - Set␤    ok 2 - SetHash␤    ok 3 - Bag␤    ok 4 - BagHash␤    ok 5 - Mix␤    ok 6 - MixHash␤    ok 7 - Map␤    ok 8 - Hash␤ok 1 - can access key of empty list coerced to type␤»
19:48 Element80 c: 87d0e0a39e~1 use Test; plan 1; subtest 'can access key of empty list coerced to type' => { my @tests = <Set SetHash  Bag BagHash  Mix MixHash  Map Hash>; plan +@tests; for @tests { lives-ok { my %x := ()."$_"(); %x<a> }, $_ } }
19:48 committable6 Element80, https://gist.github.com/3cb40dd42e91b00c3d8f65bb421ea358
19:49 Element80 Cool. It was also broken on Mix :)
19:49 dogbert17 perhaps you should add this now that you've done all the work :)
19:49 Element80 Nope
19:49 * Element80 decommutes
19:50 dogbert17 can I steal your code ?
19:50 Element80 Sure
19:50 dogbert17 then it will sonn be fixed :)
19:50 dogbert17 *soon
20:03 Geth ¦ roast: dogbert17++ created pull request #279: Added tests for RT #131386. Zoffix++
20:03 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131386
20:03 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/pull/279
20:03 AlexDaniel joined #perl6-dev
20:04 Geth ¦ roast: d2d60f5a1c | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | S02-types/baggy.t
20:04 Geth ¦ roast: Added tests for RT #131386. Zoffix++
20:04 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d2d60f5a1c
20:04 Geth ¦ roast: e156d2a03d | dogbert17++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | S02-types/baggy.t
20:04 Geth ¦ roast: Merge pull request #279 from dogbert17/test-rt-131386
20:04 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131386
20:04 Geth ¦ roast:
20:04 Geth ¦ roast: Added tests for RT #131386. Zoffix++
20:04 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131386
20:04 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e156d2a03d
20:24 FROGGS joined #perl6-dev
20:30 AlexDaniel joined #perl6-dev
20:37 Geth ¦ star: 7ed02c57e2 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed by Zoffix Znet) | README
20:37 Geth ¦ star: add specific instructions for a system installation (#90)
20:37 Geth ¦ star:
20:37 Geth ¦ star: * add specific instructions for a system installation
20:37 Geth ¦ star:
20:37 Geth ¦ star: * tweak wording per Zoffix's comment
20:37 Geth ¦ star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/7ed02c57e2
20:48 Ven joined #perl6-dev
21:21 Ven_ joined #perl6-dev
21:29 Element80 "Should probably have <!after '='> to agree w/spec, but after NYI."
21:30 Element80 Looks like this comment (code?) is outdated: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp#L4471
21:35 Ven_ joined #perl6-dev
21:57 ugexe `my $proc = Proc::Async.new("ls"); $proc.stdout; await $proc.start;` # should this await indefinitely?
21:59 geekosaur yes? you told it to capture stdout but nothing is reading it, so it could well lead to a deadlock
22:00 ugexe something nice with Proc vs Proc::Async is Proc can do silent processes easier ala run("test-command", :out, :err).exitcode == 0 vs my $proc = Proc::Async.new("test-command") andthen {.stdout.tap; .stderr.tap;}; $proc.exitcode == 0
22:01 geekosaur and no, I don't think perl 6 or anything else can possibly make IPC behave the way people always think it should magically behave. if something is not consuming data on a pipe, the other end WILL block. you can't fix that on your (the perl 6) end except by reading the pipe
22:08 Element80 .exitcode == 0 can also be written as simply .so
22:20 ugexe ah yeah. im in the habit of using .exitcode because I do a lot of probing-for-existence where you get stuff like run("prove",  "--help").exitcode == 1
22:26 jnthn ugexe: If you don't .tap it then it won't start reading; that's 'cus you can also do $proc2.bind-stdin($proc1.stdout) which will plumb the fds together, in which case you'd really not like a read to happen
22:30 jnthn Also, uh, does the thing you wrote with Proc really work?
22:31 [Coke] FYI, segfault for me in doc test: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1411
22:31 ugexe the Proc one yeah. the Proc::Async needs a $proc.start in there
22:32 jnthn `run("test-command", :out, :err).exitcode == 0` will at the very least leak handles
22:32 jnthn I'm a tad surprised it doesn't deadlock if the commands produce sufficient output
22:33 BenGoldberg joined #perl6-dev
22:34 jnthn What'd be nicer is if we could provide some simple methods on Proc::Async that handle the common use cases
22:40 ugexe i thought silent procs via :out/:err worked without leaking handles because of https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e4468c610c1565be267dc6688d050c985e056afc#diff-7e0467c62428b3696cb555c69c52a4a0
22:43 ugexe if it *does* leak handles then I have some code to change heh
22:45 Element80 That just waits for the proc to be done.
22:46 Element80 to set status
22:47 Element80 run("test-command", :!out, :!err).so should work, I think,
22:47 Element80 yeah, it just taps to silence it without doing anything with data
22:48 ugexe ah, I like that better visually too
22:48 jnthn Yeah was just looking at the code
22:48 jnthn Those two will do the right thing.
22:49 jnthn (:!out and :!err that is)
22:50 ugexe i wonder if thats what is causing some people issues on travis-ci with big dependency chains
22:50 jnthn Quite possibly, if the issue is they run out of handles
22:50 ugexe no one has gotten a good error. it dies abruptly or segfaults
22:51 jnthn Also today I fixed an issue where error reporting when a process was launched could end up occasionally SEGVing due to a GC rooting accident
22:52 jnthn https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/4e29e4c717 fwiw
22:53 ugexe in the cases i've seen there should not be any errors to report, unless the error reporting you're talking about is at a lower level
22:57 jnthn No, this was in a case where for example launching a process failed
22:58 ugexe ah, i guess it could be trying to report the process failed but dies abruptly because of that
23:02 b2gills joined #perl6-dev
23:18 [Coke] trying to use samcv's perl6-lldb-m on mac; run the command, type "run" I get the 1..309 of the test plan, and then it just hangs. :|
23:19 samcv hmm hangs?
23:19 samcv can you show output?
23:19 samcv like hangs how?
23:20 [Coke] "stops emitting any output"
23:20 samcv hm
23:20 samcv odd
23:21 samcv did you edit the library folders?
23:21 samcv in the script?
23:21 [Coke] so perl6-lldb-m xt/space-after-comma.t ; type "run" inside lldb; get 1..309, then nothing.
23:21 [Coke] samcv: yes.
23:21 [Coke] it emits the text from the first chunk as expected.
23:22 samcv i get the same thing
23:22 samcv it works with everything else i've run though
23:22 samcv Process 9007 stopped and restarted: thread 2 received signal: SIGCHLD
23:22 samcv no it's still running but hm
23:22 samcv odd
23:23 samcv i see what you're seeing though
23:23 samcv i get the same thing in gdb though
23:25 [Coke] ... guess I woin't bother installing gdb, then. :)
23:26 samcv heh
23:26 samcv i was gonna add lldb script to rakudo
23:26 samcv i should do that
23:47 samcv working on adding that [Coke] should be almost done as lng as no hitches in the makefile
23:48 samcv [Coke], i've found the apple site has pretty good info on using lldb https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/General/Conceptual/lldb-guide/chapters/C2-Understanding-LLDB-Command-Syntax.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40016717-CH7-SW1
23:48 samcv well organized
23:55 [Coke] does 'use strict' or 'no strict' actually do anything in rakudo other than set $*STRICT ?
23:57 [Coke] ah, no strict allows you to auto declare vars.

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