Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-dev, 2017-08-14

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01:52 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
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08:12 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: bd4094e24b | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Junction.pm
08:12 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Only actually stringify non-Str in Junction.Str
08:12 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
08:12 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Makes it about 2x as fast if the junction already consistes of strings.
08:12 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bd4094e24b
08:24 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: a3c71e7d39 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Junction.pm
08:24 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Concatting a Junction with an empty string is just .Str
08:24 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a3c71e7d39
08:51 brrt can we make a plan for killing the extops
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09:35 Geth ¦ roast: 1d784096c9 | (brian d foy)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | S06-signature/slurpy-params.t
09:35 Geth ¦ roast: Minor typo
09:35 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1d784096c9
09:45 Geth ¦ nqp: 980ea2684d | pmurias++ | src/vm/js/nqp-runtime/io.js
09:45 Geth ¦ nqp: [js] Make nqp::readfh work on stdin
09:45 Geth ¦ nqp:
09:45 Geth ¦ nqp: This works on linux, but needs to be tested on windows (which lacks /dev/stdin)
09:45 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/980ea2684d
09:48 nine Killing extops? I'd like that. They never made sense to me considering that MoarVM was explicitly written to run rakudo :)
09:49 jnthn They're largely "things we didn't have time to design right in the VM, so exported the technical debt" :)
09:49 jnthn (Yes, I'd like to see them go. No, I don't care to do it by just moving them.)
10:06 brrt what would you recommend we'd need for them to go?
10:08 jnthn Well, step 1 is probably to re-design the stuff that underpins Scalar
10:08 jnthn Which we need to do for spesh to better understand it anyway
10:08 brrt hmmm
10:08 jnthn Once *that* is moved into MoarVM at least a few ops will go away
10:09 jnthn The p6box_i, p6box_s etc. can easily go today
10:09 jnthn Anyone can do that
10:09 jnthn We "just" need to turn them into a wval + box instruction
10:09 jnthn Or perhaps a hllboxtype_i + box
10:10 jnthn That probably just leaves a small number of things
10:10 brrt uhuh
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11:10 Geth ¦ nqp: fff99261e1 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | docs/ops.markdown
11:10 Geth ¦ nqp: Design/document soon-to-be-added atomic ops.
11:10 Geth ¦ nqp:
11:10 Geth ¦ nqp: These will be implemented in MoarVM and used to make atomics available
11:10 Geth ¦ nqp: in Rakudo.
11:10 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fff99261e1
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11:56 dogbert17_ ZOFFLOP: S03-junctions/autothreading.t, S05-modifier/ignoremark.t, S05-modifier/samemark.t, S17-promise/nonblocking-await.t, S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t and S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t
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13:05 jnthn So I'm putting in various atomic ops and pondering exactly how we'll expose them at Perl 6 level.
13:06 jnthn A cas function is fine enough and we can overload it for Scalar and int
13:06 jnthn Question beyond that is if we'd prefer an interface like Atomic.something(...) or a more functional interface
13:07 timotimo just can't be bigint ... or immutable Int :P
13:07 jnthn Right, has to be an `int $target is rw`
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13:08 jnthn m: multi m(int $target is rw) { say "int" }; multi m($x is rw) { say "reference" }; my int $test = 42; m($test); my $test2 = Mu; m($test2)
13:08 camelia rakudo-moar a3c71e: OUTPUT: «int?Cannot resolve caller m(Mu); none of these signatures match:?    (int $target is rw)?    ($x is rw)?  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1??»
13:08 jnthn oops
13:08 jnthn m: multi m(int $target is rw) { say "int" }; multi m($x is rw) { say "reference" }; my int $test = 42; m($test); my $test2 = Any; m($test2)
13:08 camelia rakudo-moar a3c71e: OUTPUT: «int?reference?»
13:09 jnthn m: multi m(int $target is rw) { say "int" }; multi m($x is rw) { say "reference" }; my int $test = 42; m($test); my $test2 = 42; m($test2)
13:09 camelia rakudo-moar a3c71e: OUTPUT: «int?reference?»
13:09 jnthn So those fall fine out of multi
13:09 jnthn The other operations on scalars are atomic load and atomic store
13:09 jnthn The other opreations on native int are atomic increment, decrement, add, load, and store
13:10 timotimo ah, scalars will also store and load actual objects
13:10 jnthn There's then an argument-less memory barrier
13:10 jnthn The boring answer is just Atomic.add($i, 42)
13:10 jnthn Atomic.full-barrier()
13:10 jnthn etc.
13:10 timotimo Atomic+ Atomic- :P
13:11 timotimo is this anything to do with making object hashes perl6-level and making them threadsafe?
13:11 timotimo or your latest secret project?
13:11 jnthn But...well yeah, we can do horrors like $x A= $obj
13:11 jnthn :P
13:11 timotimo we do have the S metaop for "sequential" or something
13:11 timotimo that's sort of what you get when you use atomic ops
13:11 jnthn No, it's to do with somebody offering me funding to implement atomics :-)
13:12 timotimo oh, cool
13:12 timotimo .o( now in theaters: Atomic Jonthe )
13:12 jnthn :P
13:12 jnthn Wait, what secret project? :P :P Just 'cus I've got my first talk in ages coming up doesn't mean there'll be a big reveal :P
13:13 timotimo :D
13:13 jnthn Or at least, it doesn't *have* to... ;-)
13:13 timotimo no pressure
13:13 jnthn I pondered some atomic-y meta-op
13:13 jnthn But it seems pretty poor generalization
13:13 timotimo very
13:14 timotimo i mean, it could be like += but instead of "assigning" it'll compare-and-swap in a loop or something?!
13:14 jnthn We'd have to pick a non-ascii char for it too
13:14 jnthn += can't fail
13:14 jnthn There's a direct atomic add
13:14 jnthn So no implicit loop there
13:14 timotimo bad example, indeed
13:14 jnthn I think cas just wants to be a function
13:14 timotimo A.= lc
13:15 jnthn Yeah but ++ and -- are the other ones
13:15 jnthn And you can't A++ and A-- 'cus it'd have to be written $foo\A++ to not be ambiguous anyway
13:15 timotimo indeed, that'd be ugly
13:15 jnthn And then it'd only work on a native int of the right size :P
13:15 timotimo +A+ -A- *ugh*
13:15 jnthn eww :P
13:16 jnthn ++A and --A and =A and +=A would work but...uh... )
13:16 timotimo except we also have pre-increment
13:16 timotimo though i believe the increment and decrement atomic ops give you the before value already
13:16 jnthn Not natively but yeah, we can simulate it
13:16 jnthn Right
13:17 jnthn I think I'll go the boring route for now
13:17 timotimo that'll be acceptable
13:17 jnthn There are pretty special case anyway
13:17 jnthn Argubably they could just be functions
13:17 jnthn Not Atomic.blah
13:17 jnthn Since cas already is
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14:24 pmurias jnthn: are $a.=repeated and $a .= repeated meant to compile differently?
14:25 pmurias jnthn: $a.=repeated has a sink when compiled while $a .= repeated doesn't
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14:30 jnthn They're parsed very differently
14:31 jnthn The first is parsed as a method call, like .+ and .* are
14:31 jnthn The latter as an infix op
14:31 pmurias both are intended to have identical semantics?
14:31 jnthn Yeah
14:31 jnthn Not sure what stops the latter one getting the sink
14:31 jnthn Oh
14:31 jnthn Maybe the problem is the former does get the sink though
14:31 jnthn Yeah, it's an assignment
14:32 jnthn And assignments shouldn't be sunk
14:33 pmurias the sink is somehow called only on the JVM/JS backends
14:33 pmurias I'll debug that
14:34 jnthn pmurias++
14:43 Geth ¦ nqp/atomics: 8fddad9170 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp
14:43 Geth ¦ nqp/atomics: Map new atomic ops on MoarVM backend.
14:43 Geth ¦ nqp/atomics: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8fddad9170
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15:21 pmurias jnthn: it turns out that nqp::p6sink is called on MoarVM backend but it doesn't do anything because it gets a container (and nqp::p6sink deconts that container on the jvm and js)
15:23 pmurias jnthn: I assume I should fix nqp::p6sink on js & jvm and stop the nqp::p6sink being emitted for .= on all backends?
15:31 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: 01b6d3f56e | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 4 files
15:31 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: Initial implementation of real cas on Scalars.
15:31 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/01b6d3f56e
15:32 jnthn I guess if something's in a container we shouldn't sink it, yeah
15:32 jnthn And yes, we don't want to sink .= since it's stored
15:34 Geth ¦ roast: a42b3995b3 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | S17-lowlevel/cas.t
15:34 Geth ¦ roast: Add tests for the cas function.
15:34 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a42b3995b3
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16:24 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: 40853b4f73 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 2 files
16:24 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: Re-implement auto-looping form of cas.
16:24 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics:
16:24 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: This time actually doing it atomic.
16:24 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/40853b4f73
16:24 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: 0155358517 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | t/spectest.data
16:24 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: Run new cas tests.
16:24 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0155358517
16:41 AlexDaniel .seen perlpilot
16:41 yoleaux I saw perlpilot 2 Aug 2017 17:52Z in #perl6: <perlpilot> Altreus: gist works
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17:59 nine jnthn: functions are much easier to replace in a lexical scope, i.e. a new language version. So when in doubt about an API, functions are a less risky way.
18:16 samcv AlexDaniel, that RT is probably not caused by me. i made changes which fixed a bug in ignoremark
18:16 samcv ignoremark used to match if the first two codepoints in the needle were a match (no matter what else was in the needle)
18:16 samcv so 'hello' ~~ /:m hem/ would match
18:16 samcv i will reply to the RT after i make some tea
18:17 samcv RT if anyone curious https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131881
18:18 samcv though i maybe commited some other fixes that i will have to check
18:24 samcv ah no i haven't made a fix another location yet. not sure if it will fix this. it is possible? i will see in a bit.
18:24 samcv tea &
18:27 jnthn nine: Good point, though in this case I'd expect it to be relatively low-risk; this is epxosing rather well-defined primitives. :)
18:28 jnthn But yeah, I guess functions are more natural than methods always called on a type object
18:50 pmurias function calls are easier to optimize too
18:54 jnthn That also
18:54 samcv AlexDaniel, so that bug is going to be fixed, just running spectest on everything. full details on squashing in #moarvm
18:54 jnthn Don't need the speculative opt
18:56 samcv NeuralAnomaly, staus
18:56 samcv NeuralAnomaly, status
18:56 NeuralAnomaly samcv, [?] Next release will be in 4 days and 9 hours. Since last release, there are 49 new still-open tickets (2 unreviewed and 3 blockers) and 156 unreviewed commits. See http://perl6.fail/release/stats for details
19:11 Geth ¦ nqp: 63d534d6ab | (Samantha McVey)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION
19:11 Geth ¦ nqp: Bump MoarVM to get ignoremark fixes and other changes
19:11 Geth ¦ nqp:
19:11 Geth ¦ nqp: Full list of changes brought in:
19:11 Geth ¦ nqp: 712cff33 Fix a bug in index/eqat(im) and in ord_getbasechar
19:11 Geth ¦ nqp: 3e3f66ea Cleanup typos, formatting, etc in comments
19:11 Geth ¦ nqp: 7c4150f5 Cleanup typos, formatting, etc in comments
19:11 Geth ¦ nqp: 29d48d99 Cleanup typo in comments
19:11 Geth ¦ nqp: <…commit message has 16 more lines…>
19:11 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/63d534d6ab
19:11 Geth ¦ nqp: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/compare/2017.07-378-g5e94da0...2017.07-403-g712cff33
19:16 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 7b81f0f996 | (Samantha McVey)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION
19:16 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Bump Moar/NQP for ignoremark fixes
19:16 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
19:16 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: NQP changes brought in:
19:16 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 63d534d6a Bump MoarVM to get ignoremark fixes and other changes
19:16 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: fff99261e Design/document soon-to-be-added atomic ops.
19:16 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 980ea2684 [js] Make nqp::readfh work on stdin
19:16 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
19:16 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: <…commit message has 23 more lines…>
19:16 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7b81f0f996
19:16 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/2017.07-33-g1d2f0fe...2017.07-37-g63d534d6a
19:19 Geth ¦ roast: c185acc57a | (Samantha McVey)++ | S05-modifier/ignoremark.t
19:19 Geth ¦ roast: Add ignoremark tests to cover JSON::Tiny regression + other issue
19:19 Geth ¦ roast:
19:19 Geth ¦ roast: Synthetics with decomposable base characters properly work with ignoremark
19:19 Geth ¦ roast: \c[LATIN SMALL LETTER J WITH CARON, COMBINING DOT BELOW]" ~~ /:m:i j /
19:19 Geth ¦ roast: Since letter j with caron is one codepoint. It used to not decompose it.
19:19 Geth ¦ roast:
19:19 Geth ¦ roast: With latest MoarVM changes this is fixed, as well as the JSON::Tiny regression.
19:19 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c185acc57a
19:31 samcv moritz, the JSON::Tiny bug should be fixed now
19:31 moritz samcv: thanks!
19:33 lizmat FWIW, I will fix t/spec/S03-junctions/autothreading.t issues tomorrow
19:33 samcv you're very welcome moritz
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20:05 Geth ¦ roast: 8e1f6718ab | pmurias++ | S04-statements/sink.t
20:05 Geth ¦ roast: Test that we don't sink things in containers
20:05 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8e1f6718ab
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20:22 pmurias hmm, how can I add a sink method to a Proxy (or any other container) and still have it remain usable as a container
20:24 lizmat but role { method sink { } }
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20:54 AlexDaniel releasable6: status
20:54 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in 4 days and ?22 hours. 3 blockers. Changelog for this release was not started yet
20:54 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Details: https://gist.github.com/03d0c3bbcd3b966773b2432056b27da3
20:54 AlexDaniel kinda like this
21:04 perlpilot AlexDaniel: what's up?
21:04 yoleaux 7 Aug 2017 21:08Z <AlexDaniel> perlpilot: https://github.com/perlpilot/p6-sake/pull/6 plz
21:05 perlpilot ah
21:05 AlexDaniel :)
21:05 perlpilot though, I'm clearly behind the curve a little bit in what's going on  :)
21:07 perlpilot EVALFILE doesn't require some MONKEY-THING?
21:07 AlexDaniel perlpilot: hm, that's an interesting question, but nope
21:12 AlexDaniel perlpilot: there's one more pull request that I'd love to see merged, btw :)
21:14 perlpilot AlexDaniel++
21:15 AlexDaniel thanks!
21:24 samcv releasable6, status
21:24 releasable6 samcv, Next release in 4 days and ?21 hours. 3 blockers. Changelog for this release was not started yet
21:24 releasable6 samcv, Details: https://gist.github.com/eb9a23d677af0303c7e2522287e8dc5b
21:25 samcv hm wonder how long it takes to update. i just closed one of the blockers
21:26 AlexDaniel samcv: blockers are taken from https://perl6.fail/ and the list is maintained manually there
21:26 AlexDaniel samcv: I'll do something about it, maybe, but later
21:27 AlexDaniel samcv: by the way, any tests for that ticket?
21:27 samcv yes
21:28 samcv :)
21:28 AlexDaniel ah, I see already
21:28 AlexDaniel samcv: great, thanks!
21:28 AlexDaniel releasable6, status
21:28 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in 4 days and ?21 hours. 1 blocker. Changelog for this release was not started yet
21:28 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Details: https://gist.github.com/19ebdeca33f069a41ec04f046dd0924c
21:30 samcv nice so do we have all blockers resolvd then?
21:31 AlexDaniel samcv: I misclicked… :)
21:31 AlexDaniel releasable6: status
21:31 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in 4 days and ?21 hours. 2 blockers. Changelog for this release was not started yet
21:31 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Details: https://gist.github.com/99392a3652831427fa1ed2a2e55672b4
21:31 AlexDaniel this one is right
21:31 AlexDaniel the memory issue thing… I just tested it. It got better, but it's still leaking
21:32 AlexDaniel let's see if I can reproduce the leak with the provided example…
21:35 AlexDaniel yeah, I can. But it's less severe
21:35 samcv is it a really bad memory leak? (is/was?)
21:36 AlexDaniel it was horrible, yes. Currently not that much
21:37 AlexDaniel in fact, I'm not sure if it was perfectly clean before it got worse
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21:41 samcv hm
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22:02 jnthn AlexDaniel: I'll try and take care of https://rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131857 this week
22:03 AlexDaniel jnthn: ok! Thanks
22:04 AlexDaniel jnthn: regarding RT #131879, I just reverted my commits that increased timeouts for bot tests (which is how I initially noticed the issue), everything is fine
22:04 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131879
22:04 AlexDaniel jnthn: so it is still leaking, noticeably but not too significantly, so I don't think that many people will notice it. Therefore, it's OK
22:04 jnthn OK, guess that'll do for now then :)
22:06 AlexDaniel releasable6: status
22:06 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in 4 days and ?20 hours. 1 blocker. Changelog for this release was not started yet
22:06 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Details: https://gist.github.com/ee20b024b14c5c6491bdcc6d9ddae0d8
22:06 AlexDaniel alright
22:12 lizmat AlexDaniel++  # welcome to the core team
22:12 lizmat AlexDaniel: shouldn't you be in CREDITS now ??
22:13 AlexDaniel lizmat: \o/ thanks
22:16 AlexDaniel lizmat: I never wondered what's the criteria for inclusion there
22:16 lizmat well, having a commit bit definitely means you should be in there  :-)
22:16 AlexDaniel alright I'll add myself then
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22:22 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 29e41b45fa | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | CREDITS
22:22 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Add myself to CREDITS
22:22 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/29e41b45fa
22:26 lizmat AlexDaniel++  :-)
22:34 AlexDaniel by the way, the release process will be a little bit different this time. Still automated and awesome, but different
22:34 AlexDaniel I'm doing some tests right now, so more info on that later
22:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 231cb3f5fe | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | src/core/IO/Path.pm
22:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Fix bad assumption about methods being closures.
22:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
22:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: They're not, since they're looked up via a table in the meta-object.
22:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Thus this could cause data races when paths were being manipulated
22:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: from different threads.
22:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/231cb3f5fe
22:54 jnthn That caused some pretty weird errors :P
23:02 lizmat and another issue of the Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/08/14/2017-33-in-review/
23:05 lizmat good night, #perl6-dev!
23:10 Zoffix lizmat++ # good weekly
23:15 * TimToady waves from mountain view
23:22 * timotimo waves views from wave mountain
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