Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-dev, 2017-08-17

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Time Nick Message
00:00 samcv hmm. i gotta do some more stuff before i get paid. merge the collation stuff. write some documentation. and fix the unicode property name clashes in the database. and Generate Hangul codepoint names algorithmically off the top of my head
00:01 samcv and get the knuth-morris-pratt string search thing merged, tho that wasn't part of the grant, not a bad thing to do
00:01 samcv so fairly close
00:06 AlexDaniel samcv++ ? your work
01:24 BenGoldberg Zoffix, is that a pink guitar, or a shiny red one lit with an unfortunately placed camera flash?
01:26 Zoffix Don't know I'm colorblind. The salesman mentioned it being red while picking out the stap tho, so I guess it's red :)
01:29 BenGoldberg Hmm... in that case, is it a dark color, or a light color?  Pink just another word for pale red.
01:32 Zoffix dark
01:35 AlexDaniel pink? That's clearly red
01:36 AlexDaniel nice red, by the way
01:37 Zoffix Here's a shot with different light: http://i.imgur.com/S8TV4c9.jpg
01:38 Zoffix it gets lighter and has a bit of wood pattern visible, closer to the neck
01:38 AlexDaniel Hm, that's more like… maroon?
01:39 * Zoffix shrugs :)
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01:52 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
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04:25 ugexe windows failing to build asyncsocket.c
04:26 ugexe https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/5e94da03ada4678680c8426a63db87d01da8b953
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04:48 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
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05:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: b378a157eb | (Nick Logan)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | src/core/CompUnit/Repository/FileSystem.pm
05:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: Add candidates method as CURFS recommendation manager
05:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor:
05:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: See #1125 for .candidates details
05:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor:
05:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: Creates full Distribution for both -I. and -Ilib, where the later will use the directory recursion it was already doing (to determine id) to automatically populate meta data for provides and files (bin/, resources/).
05:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor:
05:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: Makes it possible to do `sub MAIN("version") { $*REPO.need("My::Module").distribution.meta<ver> }` to allow scripts to give the right version regardless of CURI or CURFS being used to load it.
05:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b378a157eb
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06:15 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: d0a3fec997 | (Nick Logan)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | src/core/CompUnit/Repository/FileSystem.pm
06:15 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: Reimplement files using .candidates
06:15 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d0a3fec997
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07:26 Geth ¦ nqp: 152094b76b | (Stefan Seifert)++ | 2 files
07:26 Geth ¦ nqp: Add support for %*ENV<NQP_LIB> to MoarVM and JS ModuleLoaders
07:26 Geth ¦ nqp:
07:26 Geth ¦ nqp: On the JVM we already support this and this is needed for replacing the
07:26 Geth ¦ nqp: hard coded '.' and 'blib' search paths during the build.
07:26 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/152094b76b
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08:04 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
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08:09 pmurias nine: you are working on fixing up rakudos build? (I have noticed the nqp commit and I don't want to duplicate work)
08:09 pmurias * are you
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08:30 nine pmurias: I am
08:31 nine pmurias: already got a fix, but trying to implement a better one
08:42 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 7e40372456 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | 4 files
08:42 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Unbreak the build now that nqp no longer searches . and blib by default
08:42 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
08:42 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: nqp commit dd25a924638958a6cdca4c81a0f8798182e52104 removed '.' and 'blib'
08:42 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: from nqp's default module search paths. Those were needed only during rakudo's
08:42 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: build as after a make install we will find nqp modules in nqp's libpath.
08:42 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: This mirrors similar changes to Perl6::ModuleLoader.
08:42 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
08:42 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Would love to just pass on --nqp-lib to NQP's ModuleLoader, but our command
08:42 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: line processing in main.nqp happens only after loading modules alredy.
08:42 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7e40372456
08:43 nine Second paragraph explains why my attempts at a better fix just didn't work out :/
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09:17 pmurias nine: the installed perl6-m passes the argument with --libpath directly to the moar executable
09:21 stmuk_ ping
09:22 stmuk something odd on freenode .. seem to be banned on many channels
09:22 yoleaux 16 Aug 2017 21:57Z <AlexDaniel> stmuk: you may be interested in this discussion: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-08-16#i_15027543
09:24 jnthn stmuk: Yeah, I was klined from the lot overnight
09:24 jnthn I'm guessing some accident
09:26 stmuk seems like it
09:27 stmuk hmm there problem should be a R* security fix release of some sort .. is the nqp execute fix a simple patch or more complex?
09:29 stmuk s/problem/probably
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09:40 stmuk it's just nqp  dd25a92 I guess?
09:43 stmuk ah no :)
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09:47 travis-ci Rakudo build passed. Stefan Seifert 'Unbreak the build now that nqp no longer searches . and blib by default
09:47 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/265487131 https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/3e70d44d47d1...7e4037245655
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09:57 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: 22e25da2c6 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | src/core/Atomic.pm
09:57 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: Eliminate Atomic.foo methods for atomic-foo subs.
09:57 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics:
09:57 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: These will be the "Texas form" of the atomic operations; will also add
09:57 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: Unicode operator forms.
09:57 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/22e25da2c6
09:57 Geth ¦ roast: e3d700548b | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | S17-lowlevel/atomic.t
09:57 Geth ¦ roast: Follow atomics API changes in Rakudo.
09:57 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e3d700548b
10:05 Geth ¦ roast: 1ca17ba664 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | S17-lowlevel/atomic.t
10:05 Geth ¦ roast: Test return values of atomic integer subs.
10:05 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1ca17ba664
10:06 Geth ¦ roast: a921dbb029 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | S17-lowlevel/atomic-ops.t
10:06 Geth ¦ roast: Add tests for operator forms of atomic ops.
10:06 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a921dbb029
10:06 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: e7e33173a7 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 2 files
10:06 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: Add operator forms of atomic operations.
10:06 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e7e33173a7
10:06 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: cdbb085852 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | t/spectest.data
10:06 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: Run S17-lowlevel/atomic-ops.t.
10:06 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cdbb085852
10:13 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: 027e25fb59 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 4 files
10:13 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: Rename to reflect no Atomic class any more.
10:13 Geth ¦ rakudo/atomics: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/027e25fb59
10:20 Geth ¦ nqp/master: 4 commits pushed by (Jonathan Worthington)++
10:20 Geth ¦ nqp/master: 8fddad9170 | Map new atomic ops on MoarVM backend.
10:20 Geth ¦ nqp/master: 59fd391f29 | Add constant mapping atomic integer type.
10:20 Geth ¦ nqp/master: 573a0ad874 | Merge branch 'atomics'
10:20 Geth ¦ nqp/master: b084530f9f | Bump MOAR_REVISION for atomic op support.
10:20 Geth ¦ nqp/master: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/152094b76b...b084530f9f
10:20 Geth ¦ nqp/master: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/compare/2017.07-418-g1f8417ec...2017.07-444-g88c6851
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10:33 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 18 commits pushed by (Jonathan Worthington)++
10:33 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/7e40372456...92707fac6c
10:33 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/2017.07-44-g152094b76...2017.07-48-gb084530
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11:00 Geth ¦ nqp: 47c4bc4d14 | pmurias++ | 2 files
11:00 Geth ¦ nqp: [js] Throw and exception if we have too many or too few positional args
11:00 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/47c4bc4d14
11:00 Geth ¦ nqp: 6c4770c736 | pmurias++ | t/qast/01-qast.t
11:00 Geth ¦ nqp: Test that QAST::Block.custom_args is respected
11:00 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6c4770c736
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11:37 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
11:41 stmuk nine: NativeHelpers::Blob doesn't install any more
11:46 nine stmuk: upgrade to rakudo/nom
11:46 nine Or downgrade to the last release :)
11:49 stmuk this is with 2017.07-161-gf1464e2
11:50 nine That's 29 commits behind rakudo/nom
11:51 stmuk I'll try blead
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11:59 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
12:01 stmuk odd Exception failure with URI2017.07-190-g92707fa
12:02 stmuk test failure I mean
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13:11 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: a45ede9caa | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | src/core/atomicops.pm
13:11 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Don't return out-of-atomicint-bounds results.
13:11 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
13:11 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Ensures that any wrap-around will be reflected.
13:11 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a45ede9caa
13:15 ilmari wouldn't it be more logical to have the atomic pre-inc/dec operators be ++?/--?
13:15 jnthn How so?
13:16 brrt these are 'atom' emoji, not sure if you can see
13:17 jnthn (It didn't even occur to me that we might move the location of the atomic sign, tbh...)
13:17 timotimo öyou mean the atom symbol should be between -- and $foo?
13:17 brrt $foo??++ we cold also do
13:17 ilmari $foo?++ , ++?$foo
13:17 ilmari reads better to me than ?++$foo
13:18 ilmari timotimo: yes
13:18 timotimo i tend to agree, it's a little closer to our hyperops for prefix and postfix ops
13:18 ilmari the atom should point at the thing that's being atomically modified
13:19 brrt oh, you're already using the atomic emoji :-o
13:19 brrt had not seen
13:19 brrt wonder what the texas version of that is
13:19 ilmari functions
13:19 jnthn atomic-inc :)
13:19 timotimo i'm glad it shows up in my irc, though it's a little hard to make out
13:19 brrt atomic-inc($foo)
13:19 brrt like so?
13:19 ilmari https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/doc/Type/atomicint.pod6
13:20 brrt oh man, that's going to make for one cool 'neat tricks in perl6' talk in some future perl conference
13:20 ilmari (not on docs.perl.org yet)
13:20 ilmari s/perl/perl6/
13:20 jnthn Yeah, I can buy the hyper op similarity argument
13:20 timotimo i'll sell it to you for very cheap
13:21 timotimo i'm very proud of this product and i'd like it to get some … exposure
13:21 ilmari atomic exposure sounds dangerous
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13:30 dogbert17 turns out that https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/issues/554 still causes trouble, updated the issue
13:33 Zoffix haha, we actually used the ?-- as an op? That's so awesome :D
13:33 Zoffix m: my int $x = 42; say $x?--
13:33 camelia rakudo-moar a45ede: OUTPUT: «42?»
13:33 Zoffix m: my int $x = 42; say $x?--; say $x
13:33 camelia rakudo-moar a45ede: OUTPUT: «42?41?»
13:34 Zoffix I guess it's Twitter trolling day today :D
13:34 Zoffix damn, when will Unicode in logs get fixed?
13:35 Zoffix +1 on having prefixes as --?$foo ++?$foo
13:37 Zoffix $x ?+= 42;... so basically the rule is "atom symbol is closest to the variable the op works on"
13:38 Zoffix m: my int $x = 42; say ++?$x; say $x
13:38 camelia rakudo-moar a45ede: OUTPUT: «Cannot resolve caller prefix:<++>(Int); the following candidates?match the type but require mutable arguments:?    (Mu:D $a is rw)?    (Int:D $a is rw)??The following do not match for other reasons:?    (Bool $a is rw)?    (Mu:U $a is rw)…»
13:38 Zoffix hehe
13:39 jnthn Yeah, I'll tweak that in a moment
13:39 jnthn Just finishing the docs for the scalar case
13:39 Zoffix jnthn++
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13:42 lizmat looking at https://gfldex.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/parsing-nothing/ , perhaps we should lift
13:42 lizmat 9501edae4f73a970e3270e3 until after the release and possibly to 6.d ?
13:42 lizmat commute&
13:51 Zoffix m: say grammar { token TOP { \d+ } }.parse: '4'
13:51 camelia rakudo-moar a45ede: OUTPUT: «?4??»
13:51 Zoffix m: say grammar { token TOP { \d+ } }.parse: ''
13:51 camelia rakudo-moar a45ede: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <anon>?Confused?at <anon>:1?------> 3<BOL>7?5<EOL>?Actually thrown at:?  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1??»
13:51 Zoffix Confused? What is it confused about?
13:51 Zoffix m: my $x = grammar { token TOP { \d+ } }.parse: 'zzz'; say $x.exception.^name
13:51 camelia rakudo-moar a45ede: OUTPUT: «X::Syntax::Confused?»
13:52 jnthn huh, it's using the X::Syntax::Confused exception?
13:52 Zoffix That's an LTA exception IMO :\
13:52 jnthn Yeah, using an exception intended for the compiler isn't going to work out so well...
13:52 Zoffix lizmat, yeah postponing for 6.d makes sense, as I recall a 6.c roast test had to be changed to accomodate the behaviour.
14:00 timotimo i'd expect many surprised faces when they get a SORRY! at run time
14:02 Zoffix m: EVAL "x"
14:02 camelia rakudo-moar a45ede: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /home/camelia/EVAL_0?Undeclared routine:?    x used at line 1??»
14:02 Zoffix :)
14:02 jnthn "We're only sorry about compiler errors" :)
14:02 Zoffix :)
14:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: c67d7dd5dc | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 2 files
14:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Place atomic symbol next to target always.
14:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
14:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Based on feedback from ilmari++ and timotimo++.
14:02 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c67d7dd5dc
14:03 Geth ¦ roast: 266d9e6d57 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | S17-lowlevel/atomic-ops.t
14:03 Geth ¦ roast: Chase changes to prefix atomic operators.
14:03 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/266d9e6d57
14:07 ilmari jnthn++ # atomic power!
14:08 Zoffix I guess now we just need to make a call to The Church of Atom :)
14:08 Zoffix oh, Church of the Children of Atom :)
14:09 timotimo don't worry, a sheet of paper will protect you from alpha radiation
14:10 Zoffix HeHeHeHe :)
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14:13 jnthn Tomorrow and/or Monday I'll see about teaching the JIT about these ops some
14:22 Geth ¦ roast: c5587b95ee | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | S06-signature/named-parameters.t
14:22 Geth ¦ roast: Test to cover RT #131857.
14:22 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c5587b95ee
14:22 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131857
14:22 jnthn There goes the blocker. :)
14:26 Zoffix \o/
14:27 jnthn I wonder why I see lower memory use numbers locally than others are reporting
14:27 jnthn ./perl6-m -e 'sub mem { "/proc/$*PID/statm".IO.lines[0].split(/\s/)[5] * 4096 / 1024 }; say mem(); run "echo"; say mem()'
14:27 jnthn 80624
14:27 jnthn 107844
14:27 jnthn That a waaay smaller increase
14:28 jnthn (Than the tickets suggest)
14:28 Zoffix On 2017.07-22-g02667bd I get 59168 / 216484
14:29 Zoffix And on 2017.07-22-g02667bd 32-bit box I get 40796 / 68908
14:29 jnthn 2017.07-191-ga45ede9 here
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14:43 ggoebel backlogging... I'm surprised no one suggested using ? for atomic :-)
14:43 ilmari ggoebel: uh, that's what is used
14:43 ilmari ggoebel: see https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/doc/Type/atomicint.pod6
14:44 Zoffix m: my int $x = 42; say $x?++; say $x
14:44 camelia rakudo-moar c67d7d: OUTPUT: «42?43?»
14:45 ilmari m: my atomicint $total = 0; start { for ^2000 { $total?++ } } xx 4; say $total
14:45 camelia rakudo-moar c67d7d: OUTPUT: «570?»
14:45 ilmari uh?
14:45 ilmari m: my atomicint $total = 0; await start { for ^2000 { $total?++ } } xx 4; say $total
14:45 camelia rakudo-moar c67d7d: OUTPUT: «8000?»
14:46 ilmari jnthn: ^^ looks like the docs need some 'await' sprinkling
14:46 ilmari m: my atomicint $total = 0; await start { for ^2000 { $total++ } } xx 4; say $total
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar c67d7d: OUTPUT: «7200?»
14:46 ilmari m: my atomicint $total = 0; await start { for ^2000 { $total++ } } xx 4; say $total
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar c67d7d: OUTPUT: «7128?»
14:46 Zoffix huh, we got a new type too?
14:47 jnthn huh, thought I put the await
14:47 ilmari yes, it's a native int that's of the right size to do cpu-atomic ops on
14:47 jnthn Oh, precednece maybe?
14:47 ilmari jnthn: only the cas example has await
14:47 jnthn m: my atomicint $total = 0; await (start { for ^2000 { $total++ } } xx 4); say $total
14:47 camelia rakudo-moar c67d7d: OUTPUT: «7195?»
14:47 ilmari not the increment loop
14:47 ilmari jnthn: that last one is without the atom
14:47 jnthn oh
14:48 ilmari is your IRC client not rendering it?
14:48 ilmari install the latest symbola font
14:48 jnthn No, my eyes just imagined it :P
14:48 ilmari ah
14:52 ggoebel pmurias /o
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15:20 JimmyZ jnthn: how about calling it 'atomic' instead of 'atomicint', or will it have something atomicnum ?
15:21 AlexDaniel re revert of 9501edae4f73, see this: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-08-16#i_15021994
15:21 ugexe consistency probably... we dont have a unum do we?
15:21 AlexDaniel 3 days is definitely not enough for this change, so yeah, not in 2017.08 at least…
15:22 timotimo atomint for radiantly fresh breath
15:22 jnthn JimmyZ: atomic underspecifies what it is; it matters that it's an int
15:22 jnthn Also I'd rather not steal the type name `atomic` :)
15:25 jnthn And huffman arguments don't really make aint worth it :)
15:25 JimmyZ oh, java has many atomic type: https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/atomic/package-summary.html , haha
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15:25 jnthn Well, of course they would :P
15:26 jnthn huh, they have AtomicIntegerArray
15:26 jnthn my int @a; atomic-inc(@a[0]) works fine enough for us :)
15:27 TimToady huh, so how the heck did I get K-lined 9 or so hours ago?
15:27 yoleaux 13:38Z <gfldex> TimToady: canned worms alert up until https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-08-17#i_15032122
15:27 JimmyZ yeah ,and AtomicLongArray :P
15:27 jnthn The Java design for it is consistent with itself and with Java though :)
15:27 nine AlexDaniel++ # being strict as release manager
15:27 AlexDaniel TimToady: almost everyone did
15:28 nine TimToady: Some network issue triggered freenode's spam protection which caused a lot of users to be banned. They are working on the issue
15:29 * brrt read 'aint worth it' in the american sense
15:29 JimmyZ to me, atomicint makes me thinking it should have atomicnum too, haha
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15:30 TimToady .tell gfldex $/ is in fact set by .parse
15:30 yoleaux TimToady: I'll pass your message to gfldex.
15:30 brrt but i don't think atomicnum is a thing
15:31 jnthn brrt: I...uh...guess cas doesn't care, but yeah :)
15:31 jnthn atomic inc/dec/add sure ain't gonna work out on it :)
15:31 AlexDaniel releasable6: status
15:31 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in 2 days and ?3 hours. No blockers. 164 out of 192 commits logged
15:31 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Details: https://gist.github.com/61c9c2df1a58bd2e0eee7e0e6dd2515d
15:31 jnthn Also, what would you do with it... :-)
15:31 AlexDaniel jnthn: thank you for fixing aliased params
15:32 jnthn Sorry for busting 'em :P
15:32 jnthn Though to be fair, they were already busted, I guess
15:32 jnthn I just made optimization more aggressive and then it tripped over the issue
15:32 jnthn We can actually specialize code like that better at some point in the future
15:33 jnthn But ain't got time for that right now
15:34 * jnthn wonders why he gets sporadic DNS failure lookups of the ir clogs
15:35 jnthn Anyway, some time back we got CSV's test-t under 4s thanks to spesh work
15:35 jnthn Then I made the million lines benchmark faster. And we were so busy celebrating that we didn't notice test-t went back over 4s again
15:36 jnthn Anyway, just pushed a commit to MoarVM HEAD that means we can have our cake and eat it. :)
15:37 Zoffix buggable: speed 20
15:37 buggable Zoffix, ???????????????????? data for 2017-08-04–2017-08-12; range: 3.587s–4.925s; 18% slower
15:37 Zoffix hehe
15:39 jnthn What are the numbers, btw? :)
15:39 jnthn (like the 20 in speed 20)
15:39 Zoffix "use last 20 entries only"
15:40 jnthn Oh
15:40 jnthn And speed runs?
15:40 jnthn Measurement of test-t? :)
15:40 raschipi m: '???????????????????'.chars.say # Why 19, then?
15:40 camelia rakudo-moar c67d7d: OUTPUT: «19?»
15:40 jnthn Oh, maybe it just collects it from the channel :)
15:40 Zoffix jnthn: yeah, Tux produces them on some site; each day gets two or so
15:41 jnthn Alright
15:41 jnthn Well, guess next MoarVM HEAD bump brings it :)
15:41 Zoffix raschipi: you missed the outlier. The arrow at the end
15:41 raschipi Right, I explicitly deleted it, thinking it wasn't part of the data. The arrow means it's an outlier, I remember now.
15:54 AlexDaniel jnthn: re “I can't reproduce such an sizable increase at HEAD or MoarVM/NQP/Rakduo”, so what's your previous number?
15:54 AlexDaniel jnthn: or do you want me to test again at HEAD?
15:56 jnthn AlexDaniel: Grap MoarVM HEAD also if you do; just added a tweak there that may help some cases
15:57 AlexDaniel mmm that's gonna be more difficult
15:58 * AlexDaniel reboot
15:58 jnthn *Grab
15:59 jnthn Either way, I don't think I'll have time to dig much more into it soon
15:59 AlexDaniel There's now RT #131919 to discuss the .parse change
15:59 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131919
15:59 jnthn And the longer term fix for things like Proc::Async memory use will be to have it spawn less threads
15:59 jnthn Which needs an overhaul of ThreadPoolScheduler
16:01 AlexDaniel .tell Skarsnik by the way, does RT #131914 affect you in any way, or did you notice it by chance?
16:01 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131914
16:01 yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to Skarsnik.
16:02 AlexDaniel jnthn: alright, thanks!
16:03 TimToady sure would be nice if there were a way to test the whole ecosystem for a given change...
16:03 ugexe we kinda can
16:03 ugexe well, Zoffix kinda can :)
16:03 AlexDaniel TimToady: we had toaster, but it doesn't seem to work right
16:04 AlexDaniel right now*
16:04 AlexDaniel :)
16:04 Zoffix Well, it can work if you run the toaster itself on an older (say 2017.07) Rakudo
16:05 Zoffix I'll try doing that
16:05 Zoffix TimToady: but yeah, there IS a way :) https://rakudo.party/post/Perl-6-Release-Quality-Assurance-Full-Ecosystem-Toaster
16:07 TimToady 'cuz it really makes a difference whether a change affects 1 module or 3 modules or 30 modules or 300 modules
16:08 TimToady if it's 1 module, a revert is overkill
16:08 TimToady if it's 300 modules, then it's 6d
16:08 TimToady most of the middle numbers mean wait a month
16:08 Zoffix But we made a promise to users we won't make any changes that break 6.c-errata.
16:08 Zoffix in 6.c
16:09 AlexDaniel “wait a month” is not a bad strategy in cases when we don't know
16:11 TimToady Zoffix: sure, but it's a bit of a judgement call whether 6.c-errata is testing something that wasn't intended to be tested
16:11 b2gills my personal take on that code is it was slightly wrong anyway, it was looping once over Any but assumed it was an empty list
16:12 TimToady one could argue that the change alread caught a bug, yes
16:14 b2gills sort of like all the bugs that 5.18 dredged up because of the randomized sort order
16:15 b2gills sort order of hashes
16:15 TimToady so as usual, we have to pick somewhere on the slippery going from "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" through "No harm, no foul" all the way down to "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
16:15 TimToady we've done a lot things in 6.c that fall somewhere on that slope, because otherwise 6.d would have lots more bugs when it comes out :)
16:16 b2gills I still think we need to publish 6c-errata as v6.c.1 at some point
16:16 Zoffix It would be nice to fight against the perception that we rip the floor from under our users all the time. Maybe start aiming to confine these changes to some particular releases, where we can say: look we changed untested stuff that might break your code.
16:16 Skarsnik joined #perl6-dev
16:16 Zoffix Releases like, the one right after R* release.
16:17 TimToady didn't we just do an R* release?  :P
16:17 Zoffix Yup :)
16:17 TimToady I love someone who can argue both sides of a problem :)
16:18 Zoffix heh
16:20 lucasb https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/Cool.pm#L202-L252
16:21 lucasb ^^ Why there isn't a .Complex coercion method in Cool?
16:21 lucasb (sorry to bother here, #perl6 is busy in a linenoise discussino :)
16:21 Skarsnik jnthn, for #131914 did you check your pagesize? (getpagesize()) maybe the 4096 in the calcul need to be changed if it's not 4096
16:21 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131914
16:22 Zoffix m: "1+i".Numeric
16:22 camelia rakudo-moar c67d7d: OUTPUT: «Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '1+?5i' (indicated by ?)?  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1??»
16:22 Zoffix m: "1+1i".Numeric
16:22 camelia rakudo-moar c67d7d: ( no output )
16:22 Zoffix lucasb: seems just an omission
16:22 Zoffix lucasb: PR it :) With tests :)
16:23 lucasb Zoffix: nice, I'll try
16:24 Zoffix lucasb: "sorry to bother here"... IMO here *is* the right place for stuff like that.
16:25 * Zoffix doesn't usually follow #perl6; too much traffic to take in
16:25 Skarsnik it's a good thing :)
16:25 Zoffix Yeah :)
16:30 [Coke] joined #perl6-dev
16:39 Skarsnik hm
16:44 Skarsnik running a run 'echo', '-n' 20 times growns to 350Mbyte. if I do more it kinda stay the same
16:46 [Coke] There's a ticket.
16:47 Zoffix Ohhhh. mystery solved on why Toaster crashes on bleedier rakudos. Messages in screen log: "not enough memory"
16:47 Skarsnik yeah but it was for one run. I was curious if the memory usage grows or it was just one overhead of having Proc being Proc::async now
16:48 Skarsnik I ran against a 2017.06 version
16:49 Skarsnik I should look more at what is exactly the value given by statm
16:54 [Coke] https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131915
16:54 AlexDaniel (it's his ticket)
16:56 [Coke] OK.
16:57 dogbert2 joined #perl6-dev
17:00 Skarsnik hm so the data field (the field used in this) is for memory allocated by the process. but it not the memory used. if I understand correctly
17:01 Skarsnik Dunno why it's called data + stack
17:12 AlexDaniel Skarsnik: should we test it again with resident (.[1]) ?
17:13 AlexDaniel uh, I wanted to reboot
17:16 Skarsnik not sure
17:18 AlexDaniel joined #perl6-dev
17:21 jnthn Skarsnik: No, but the numbers that I saw correlated with the numbers from /usr/bin/time's maxrss
17:22 AlexDaniel ¦92bd7e4f54a9^: «72632» ¦92bd7e4: «72536» ¦9658dd98c9dd8ec^^: «78084» ¦9658dd9: «78068»
17:23 AlexDaniel that's with say "/proc/$*PID/statm".IO.lines[0].split(/\s/)[1] * 4096 / 1024
17:23 AlexDaniel so what is “data + stack” exactly?
17:24 Skarsnik resident is supposed to be data + code
17:24 Skarsnik but it's weird
17:24 jnthn Stack is presumably the C stack where function's invocation records live
17:25 jnthn It'll typically be around a meg per thread
17:25 Skarsnik well if it's stack that get that big it's still not fun ^^
17:26 jnthn Well, the thread pool will allow up to 16 threads, then there's the initial thread, and one created for running the specializer, so that's 18MB at most
17:27 jnthn Each thread then has a thread-local nursery
17:27 jnthn Which is 4MB semispaces, so 8MB total
17:27 jnthn m: say 9 * 18
17:27 camelia rakudo-moar c67d7d: OUTPUT: «162?»
17:28 jnthn The thread pool scheduler is fairly un-smart, though
17:28 jnthn It just spawns threads up to the limit each time there's work
17:28 jnthn It thus can end up with more than it really needs
17:33 Skarsnik I wonder if there is a good api/lib somewhere to get clear information
17:38 Zoffix hmmm, a 2017.07 toaster running a toast of 2017.07 release died due to not enough memory :( looks like it needs some sort of memory protection against rogue modules
17:39 * Zoffix changes from 24GB to 100GB RAM and tries again
17:40 Skarsnik lol
17:41 jnthn I'd imagine the toaster itself was using Proc::Async before, though, so I don't know it woulda ended up with extra use? But yeah, a rogue module could get hungry :)
17:41 jnthn Guess can run it with ulimit or some such
17:42 ugexe zef uses proc
17:43 Zoffix Yeah, it always used Proc::Async and last release I toasted on near-2017.07 and everything worked. I'd guess it's some module
17:44 Skarsnik Writing a binding to libxml2 with gptrixie to use it in gptrixie is interesting x)
17:47 Geth ¦ rakudo: lucasbuchala++ created pull request #1131: Add .Complex coercion method to Cool
17:47 Geth ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1131
17:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: c9de2184dc | (Lucas Buchala)++ | src/core/Cool.pm
17:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Add .Complex coercion method to Cool
17:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c9de2184dc
17:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: a30ce6bca8 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | src/core/Cool.pm
17:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #1131 from lucasbuchala/coomplex
17:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
17:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Add .Complex coercion method to Cool
17:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a30ce6bca8
17:51 lucasb Zoffix: thank you
17:52 Zoffix lucasb++ thank you!
17:58 TimToady apparently :dba('foo') has been broken in user-level grammars since forever...it parses it but never does calls reduce on quote_EXPR for some reason
18:09 Zoffix hehe, URI.pm fails its tests do to .parse changes
18:09 Zoffix (it's used by Toaster and failed install :)
18:10 Zoffix s/do/due/;
18:16 Zoffix bah. Toaster itself doesn't seem to want to start. Says "Confused"; guessing the X::Syntax::Confused from .parse somewhere :/
18:18 Skarsnik hm I am curious what should be expected with that
18:18 Skarsnik m: my $hash = {a => "b"}; class FHash { method AT-KEY($key) {"b"}}; say $hash<a>:exists; my FHash $fh .= new; say $fh<a>:exists;
18:18 camelia rakudo-moar a30ce6: OUTPUT: «True?False?»
18:20 Zoffix AlexDaniel: I give up again.
18:20 lizmat joined #perl6-dev
18:20 Zoffix But I'd argue the fact that I can't even start toasting when running it on HEAD commit due is an indication the .parse() change has large impact.
18:20 timotimo Skarsnik: if you don't implement EXISTS-KEY, you'll get that :)
18:20 Zoffix Toaster doesn't even do much networking.
18:20 Skarsnik Haaa
18:21 Skarsnik is there the same for defined-keys?
18:21 timotimo defined-keys?
18:21 Skarsnik m: my $hash = {a => "b"}; class FHash { method AT-KEY($key) {"b"}}; say $hash<a>:defined; my FHash $fh .= new; say $fh<a>:defined;
18:21 camelia rakudo-moar a30ce6: OUTPUT: «Unexpected named argument 'defined' passed?  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1??»
18:21 timotimo i don't think that's a thing
18:21 Skarsnik m: my $hash = {a => "b"}; class FHash { method AT-KEY($key) {"b"}}; say $hash<a>:defined;;
18:21 camelia rakudo-moar a30ce6: OUTPUT: «Unexpected named argument 'defined' passed?  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1??»
18:21 Zoffix It's .defined
18:22 jnthn TimToady: I had :dba in Rakudo as an NYI, fwiw
18:24 timotimo you had me at "NYI"
18:27 Zoffix But if anyone wants to run Toaster, just grab a brand new debian ISO, run it in some VM, and just copy-paste these instructions: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Toaster#blank-debian-gce-vm-setup
18:27 Zoffix You don't need a 64-core box :) You'd just have to wait longer. And I don't have the patience to do these builds that seem to crash in the middle of it :/
18:28 Zoffix And on HEAD Toaster doesn't start. Says confused pointing to "Connection: closed", which I'm guessing some Grammar.parse failure in URI or some networking module
18:35 TimToady jnthn: but it just calls down into nqp's regex engine to parse, so it should at least call reduce on quote_EXPR, unless it's misparsing somehow...hmm....
18:36 jnthn Hm, true
18:36 AlexDaniel Zoffix: it's ok, thank you for your effort. I simply didn't have enough time to get my hands on it, but will do after release
18:37 TimToady it IS misparsing!
18:37 TimToady m: say "abc" ~~ /:dba("foo") abc/
18:37 camelia rakudo-moar a30ce6: OUTPUT: «Nil?»
18:37 TimToady m: say "abc" ~~ /:dba("") abc/
18:37 camelia rakudo-moar a30ce6: OUTPUT: «?abc?? 0 => ???»
18:38 TimToady m: say "abc" ~~ /:dba("abc")/
18:38 camelia rakudo-moar a30ce6: OUTPUT: «?abc?? 0 => ?abc??»
18:39 TimToady that would definitely explain why it's not reducing the argument :)
18:39 jnthn lol
18:43 Geth ¦ nqp: f48e972ad3 | (Robert Lemmen)++ | 3 files
18:43 Geth ¦ nqp: support hardware_concurrency op from moar and implement for jvm
18:43 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f48e972ad3
18:43 Geth ¦ nqp: 5ab70b5834 | (Robert Lemmen)++ | 3 files
18:43 Geth ¦ nqp: match renamed opcode "cpucores" in moar
18:43 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5ab70b5834
18:43 Geth ¦ nqp: fd1fefaff5 | niner++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 3 files
18:43 Geth ¦ nqp: Merge pull request #362 from robertlemmen/master
18:43 Geth ¦ nqp:
18:43 Geth ¦ nqp: support hardware_concurrency op from moar and implement for jvm
18:43 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fd1fefaff5
18:48 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: d533d450da | (Nick Logan)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | src/core/CompUnit/Repository/FileSystem.pm
18:48 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: Fix CURFS.id when files are added after first load
18:48 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor:
18:48 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: Fixes spectest failures from caching too aggressively.
18:48 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor:
18:48 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: This also returns to using a cached `$!id`
18:48 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d533d450da
19:14 Geth ¦ rakudo: ugexe++ created pull request #1132: Add candidates method as CURFS recommendation manager
19:14 Geth ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1132
19:20 raschipi joined #perl6-dev
19:44 Zoffix .in 1hr check on Toast
19:44 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll remind you at 20:44Z
19:44 * Zoffix relocates
19:45 Skarsnik interesting feature ^^
19:47 brrt joined #perl6-dev
20:07 nine 5.898s for 100000 rows!
20:13 nine Less than a year ago it was ~9 seconds for just 10000 rows, i.e. 1/10 of the iterations :)
20:13 brrt badass
20:14 Skarsnik and I think xml parsing take half the time than last year or something like that
20:17 brrt joined #perl6-dev
20:43 TimToady jnthn: I think I figgered it out: rakudo's regex grammar mixes in STD, which defines starter/stopper as <!> rather than using dynvars, so quote_EXPR will never match
20:44 yoleaux Zoffix: check on Toast
20:55 Skarsnik yeah burned toast is not good
21:17 samcv releasable6, status
21:17 releasable6 samcv, Next release in 1 day and ?21 hours. 1 blocker. 164 out of 194 commits logged
21:17 releasable6 samcv, Details: https://gist.github.com/7b517b4462b475f813c9a8e801fa20ef
21:23 jnthn TimToady: Yeah, quote_EXPR is kinda the NQP way of parsing quotes; Rakudo started out that way but took on STD's Q language approach
21:28 TimToady changing nqp's starter/stopper rules to dynstarter/dynstopper makes :dba work in rakudo
21:28 Zoffix greppable6: 030_default-log-level.t
21:28 greppable6 Zoffix, Found nothing!
21:29 Zoffix AlexDaniel: feature request: ability to find to which distro a filename belongs too; aka tree -f | grep XXX :)
21:30 Zoffix also 020_ff.t
21:30 jnthn TimToady: Ah, cool :)
21:31 Zoffix phew killed them in a nick of time. The 030_default-log-level was using 50GB of RAM and 020_ff.t had two instances using 20GB each.
21:31 jnthn o.O
21:31 Zoffix (nick being the VM having only 100GB of RAM and it was about to kill the Toast run :))
21:32 Zoffix Note: this is on 2017.07, so I assume the problem is in module(s)
21:32 TimToady jnthn: though nqp's idea of :dba is a bit too dynamic, insofar as it only lists the alternatives you actually tried after filtering through LTM, not all the possible alternatives at that spt
21:32 Zoffix ./moznion/p6-Log-Minimal/t/030_default-log-level.t
21:32 Zoffix ./moznion/p6-Log-Minimal/t/020_ff.t
21:33 Zoffix buggable: eco Minimal
21:33 buggable Zoffix, Found 11 results: JSON::Tiny, App::Mi6, Frinfon, Log::Minimal, PDF::Lite. See https://modules.perl6.org/s/Minimal
21:33 Zoffix Hm, nope. No changes in the module's code since ages ago...
21:34 jnthn TimToady: Oh, interesting... :)
21:34 jnthn TimToady: So maybe fixing that gets us better errors, or more spurious suggestions? :)
21:39 Zoffix Opened an Issue on author's module: https://github.com/moznion/p6-Log-Minimal/issues/8
21:41 TimToady also, doing it dynamically probably recalculates the same list over and over, so maybe we could find a good peg to hang it on and calculate expectations once per set
21:41 Zoffix stmuk: re banned on Freenode: just got a user notice saying they're battling some massive spam so they kline was temporary
21:41 TimToady as for spurious, I'd rather list them all and then allow people to specify :dba('') to suppress the noisy ones
21:42 lizmat joined #perl6-dev
21:42 literal joined #perl6-dev
21:43 jnthn True
21:44 geekosaur the new blog says they had a bot go slightly haywire and try to kline all active users
21:44 geekosaur *news blog
21:45 Skarsnik wtf are these VM with 100Gb?
21:45 Zoffix So the robot uprising begins?
21:46 Zoffix Skarsnik: Google Compute Engine. 100GB is nothing. Here's my current maximum: http://i.imgur.com/ceRzOZm.png
21:46 Zoffix bah
21:47 Zoffix .tell Skarsnik RE wtf are these VM with 100GB.... It's Google Compute Engine. 100GB is nothing. Here's my current maximum: http://i.imgur.com/ceRzOZm.png  And I've seen news they plan to expand it to 128-core VMs (presumably with even more RAM) some time soonish
21:47 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to Skarsnik.
21:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: 877e7dc0ca | (Nick Logan)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | src/core/CompUnit/Repository/FileSystem.pm
21:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: Use version * for -Ilib; populate resources field
21:50 Geth ¦ rakudo/curfs-candidates-refactor: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/877e7dc0ca
21:53 AlexDaniel Zoffix: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/issues/210
21:57 Zoffix cool
21:57 stmuk wibble
22:03 MasterDuke joined #perl6-dev
22:05 Zoffix oh crap. This was actually a HEAD run, not 2017.07 (and 2017.07 finished without issues apparently)
22:08 Zoffix holy shit
22:08 Zoffix buggable: toast
22:08 buggable Zoffix, Between 2017.07-194-ga30ce6b and 2017.07: 48 (5.60%) modules got burnt; 55 (6.42%) got unsucced; 367 (42.82%) out of 857 modules appear unusable. See https://toast.perl6.party/ for details.
22:08 Zoffix AlexDaniel: ^ lots of burnage
22:09 Zoffix I'm hoping those results aren't bogus due to some issues in Toaster itself
22:09 Zoffix Half the ecosystem is unusable :/
22:09 AlexDaniel “Aborting due to fetch failure” ?
22:10 Zoffix Which one is it?
22:11 Zoffix Ah
22:11 Zoffix It's the version thing, innit?
22:11 Zoffix nope
22:11 jnthn I've looked at 5 so far and they are all that
22:11 Zoffix No idea why. The fetch failure is likely an error from zef
22:12 * Zoffix upgrades rakudo locally and tries to install Test::META
22:12 jnthn Also Can't extract non-existent path: /home/cpan/.zef/tmp/File-Find.git
22:23 ugexe sounds like rate limiting to me
22:27 dct joined #perl6-dev
22:32 ugexe it could also be that the toaster is using multiple zef processes, all of which are using the same tmp/
22:34 Zoffix ugexe: then that is it. The toaster is using like 30 zef processes and if it's reporting ~/.zef/tmp then they're all saving there; I guess only --install-to is different
22:35 Zoffix Yeah, no issues installing Test::META locally. :(
22:38 ugexe https://github.com/ugexe/zef/blob/33c18c90000df37df15e7612100bdbf0ebfd6799/lib/Zef/Client.pm6#L277 (if you comment this out, I think it'll work again)
22:52 ugexe it looks like tacking on a random directory in tmp/ works, which should fix it. testing that right now
22:58 Zoffix huggable: hymn of the butterfly :is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPy0hAmHu90
22:58 huggable Zoffix, Added hymn of the butterfly as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPy0hAmHu90
22:58 Zoffix \m/
22:58 * Zoffix calls it a night
22:59 Zoffix Gonna try to re-run Toast on HEAD some time tomorrow.
22:59 ugexe i'll have a workaround in zef by then
22:59 Zoffix ugexe++ thanks
23:00 ugexe I think I fixed the localcache to be multi zef friendly too... so might be worth trying without disabling it
23:19 ugjka joined #perl6-dev
23:25 ugexe suspected fix in 0.1.27

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