Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-dev, 2017-08-23

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Zoffix .
00:02 Zoffix oh right it told me in private
00:16 japhb Zoffix: I think it is hard for anyone to live up to the example Audrey left for us (even she had trouble being everything she wanted to be, and I'm fairly certain she'd qualify as a straight-up genius.)
00:17 BenGoldberg This conversation reminds me Azer Koçulu, who unpublished 250 of his javascript modules on NPM, some of which was in very active use (most notably a string "leftpad" function).
00:17 japhb But she left an enduring legacy in the community to be better not just as programmers but as people and as friends.  It's worth keeping that legacy alive, and even when we start to lose control, reminding ourselves to be the people we wish we could form a community around.
00:22 Zoffix Yeah. I also read this post of hers: http://pugs.blogs.com/audrey/2009/08/my-hobby-troll-hugging.html
00:27 Zoffix I recall my time as an op in #css. Reading a log right now of a conversation and 2007's Zoffix is just linking newbies W3C's specs instead of giving any useful answers and being a giant dick to everyone...
00:28 samcv good *
00:28 samcv i'm back from seeing the total eclipse. traffic was so bad coming home
00:28 Zoffix And I'd say a lot of that could've been curbed if someone told me to STFU instead of letting me do whatever I want 'cause I was a channel op and answers to 99.99% questions.
00:29 Zoffix \o
00:29 Zoffix I only seen a slightly darkened sky and blinded myself a bit by trying to look at the sun :)
00:30 geekosaur we had about 80% here, I used a pinhole projector to watch like the last time we had an eclipse
00:31 samcv i had some binoculars. was at full eclipse for 2 minutes or so. 2 minutes is shorter than you might think. though it's exactly as long as you might think
00:31 Zoffix :)
00:33 geekosaur I see "8 second rule" got redefined for the Internet
00:33 geekosaur used to be "people remember a total eclipse lasting 8 seconds"
00:34 samcv heh
00:36 samcv oh yeah i was working on changing synthetic's moarvm struct to have a different format. Instead of having MVMGrapheme32 base; MVMGrapheme32 *combs; MVMint32 num_combs; i'm instead going to have it just be a single array
00:37 samcv instead of storing base separately. and then i will store `base_index` which will point to which in the array is the base character. since currently ignoremark and other ops don't work properly for graphemes whose first codepoint is NOT the base character
00:37 samcv m: say "\c[arabic number sign]9" ~~ /:m 9 /
00:37 camelia rakudo-moar 636a3c: OUTPUT: «Nil?»
00:37 samcv m: say "\c[arabic number sign]9" ~~ /:m "\c[arabic number sign]" /
00:37 camelia rakudo-moar 636a3c: OUTPUT: «??9??»
00:38 samcv but making a change like this means i have to make changes tons of other places :\ and getting segfaults
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01:11 * [Coke] makes a double batch of homemade onion dip
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01:39 [Coke] http://news.perlfoundation.org/2017/08/unicode-membership.html
01:50 japhb Didn't even realize that was a thing we needed, but good, I think?
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01:53 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
02:39 samcv oh nice i didn't know that
02:39 samcv so that means i can ask them random questions?
02:45 BenGoldberg Probably.
02:46 BenGoldberg http://unicode.org/consortium/levels.html#associate
02:46 BenGoldberg "As an Associate member, your organization has full access to email lists and technical committee meetings allowing you to contribute to the ongoing development of the Unicode Standard."
02:51 BenGoldberg I expect that the Unicode Consortium would be happy if some member of The Perl Foundation (or someone appointed by them) were to join one or more of their mailing lists.
02:51 samcv i thought everyone could get email lists?
02:51 samcv well i am on their main one but there's so much volume
02:51 * BenGoldberg doesn't know.  *Shrug*
02:51 samcv unless there's any secret lists for contributors or members or whatever
02:51 samcv hmm
02:51 geekosaur committee lists, likely
02:52 BenGoldberg Being able to send someone to the next technical committee meeting sounds more interesting.
02:52 BenGoldberg (Assuming it's physical, not virtual ;))
02:53 * BenGoldberg wonders what TUC thinks of rakudo's synthetic codepoints.
02:55 BenGoldberg Something ranging from "Ooh clever!" to "Madness!" to "yuck!"
02:57 geekosaur ...and then the next Unicode standard includes an NFG appendix...
02:58 samcv LOL
02:58 geekosaur (which will inevitably be *different*)
04:52 MasterDuke .ask jnthn in the atomicint example in the docs `my atomicint $total = 0; start { for ^20000 { $total?++ } } xx 4; say $total;`, shouldn't it be `await start`? with await i always get 80000 printed, without it's always some random number less than that
04:52 yoleaux MasterDuke: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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05:57 nine t/spec/S17-lowlevel/atomic.t seems to be failing here more often than not. At least when I run spectest with TEST_JOBS=22 which is kinda ironic considering the functionality it tests ;)
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06:55 nine 6 hours 25 minutes to Zurich :)
07:10 lizmat_ commute to SPW&
07:11 * samcv sends best wishes
07:14 brrt yes, have fun
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08:35 * lizmat is being commuted
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09:07 nine Oh great... track is blocked near Rosenheim
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09:42 nine already one hour late
09:47 lizmat_ :-(
09:47 lizmat_ so far only minor delays on account of roadworks
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10:03 Zoffix .tell jnthn I added the missing `awaits` in atomic docs
10:03 yoleaux 10:01Z <gfldex> Zoffix: you are not the reason why I stepped back from Perl 6. Your behaviour was just a casus belli. I wanted to actually use Perl 6 instead of making it more useable for others for a change. Sadly every time I try, I end up sending complains toward jnthn reguarding crashs and moar eating all my rams.
10:03 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
10:03 Zoffix MasterDuke: yeah, there should've been awaits.
10:35 nine Finally moving again. 2 hours 5 minutes late
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13:55 Geth ¦ nqp/jit_nativecall: 068419589f | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp
13:55 Geth ¦ nqp/jit_nativecall: Map the new nativecallinvokejit OP
13:55 Geth ¦ nqp/jit_nativecall:
13:55 Geth ¦ nqp/jit_nativecall: nativecallbuild now has a return value indicating whether we were able
13:55 Geth ¦ nqp/jit_nativecall: to JIT compile code for the call site
13:55 Geth ¦ nqp/jit_nativecall: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/068419589f
13:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/jit_nativecall: 503bcdb367 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6
13:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/jit_nativecall: Use the new nativecallinvokejit for calling JITed NC code directly
13:55 Geth ¦ rakudo/jit_nativecall: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/503bcdb367
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15:04 Zoffix .tell tbrowder Small world. Just noticed that half a decade ago you reviewed one of my Perl modules :) http://cpanratings.perl.org/dist/Spreadsheet-DataToExcel
15:04 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to tbrowder.
15:17 dogbert17 todays c language question: both coverity and gcc complains about this line, https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/master/src/gc/finalize.c#L16
15:17 dogbert17 the complaint is 'warning: statement with no effect [-Wunused-value]'
15:19 dogbert17 the question is why does it complain, this macro is used in other places and the compiler does not complain about those
15:20 dogbert17 coverity states 'CID 141567 (#1 of 1): Misused comma operator (NO_EFFECT)extra_comma: Part tc of statement tc , obj has no effect due to the comma.'
15:22 * pmurias looks into it
15:22 * dogbert17 ++pmurias
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15:25 Zoffix Because the macro is defined as empty and so the code after preprocessing ends up as (tc, obj);
15:27 tbrowder Zoffix: ref Spreadsheet::DataToExcel, I'm still using it, but could use a Perl 6 version!
15:27 yoleaux 15:04Z <Zoffix> tbrowder: Small world. Just noticed that half a decade ago you reviewed one of my Perl modules :) http://cpanratings.perl.org/dist/Spreadsheet-DataToExcel
15:28 Zoffix And the rest of the uses use something more complex as arguments, which  perhaps make it think there is some effect, so it doesn't warn?
15:29 Zoffix tbrowder: me too, though Rakudo version is a bit too hard for me :) I don't know how to make Excel without using a module
15:29 pmurias so I assume the macro should be fixed?
15:30 Zoffix pmurias: it's defined as something else when debug mode is used. I think the warning is benign.
15:30 dogbert17 I noticed that in all other uses the line is enclosed by a '#if MVM_GC_DEBUG' but not in this particular case
15:30 Zoffix Ohhhh
15:30 Zoffix dogbert17++
15:30 Zoffix pmurias: ^ that would explain it. The line should be put inside that stuff.
15:32 Zoffix /src/gc/debug.h defines that macro to do things when #if MVM_GC_DEBUG and for it to be empty when it's turned off, so the line where the macro is used should go undere the same thing
15:33 dogbert17 Zoffix: I get the impression that you've managed to work through your C language book :)
15:33 pmurias Zoffix: I made a PR to fix that
15:33 dogbert17 pmurias++
15:34 Zoffix Or, and I'm not an expert here, but when the case when #if MVM_GC_DEBUG is off, define macro as MVM_ASSERT_NOT_FROMSPACE(a, b) instead of just MVM_ASSERT_NOT_FROMSPACE, that way the variables will be replaced with empty too and we won't need to stick #if MVM_GC_DEBUG around the macro
15:34 Zoffix dogbert17: nah, I'm still only on page 265 out of 831, but I'm gettin' there! :)
15:34 dogbert17 perhaps we'll expose some nasty GC bug when that PR is applied
15:34 dogbert17 Zoffix: and how's your vacation going
15:35 Zoffix Oh, I forgot I was on one :)
15:35 Zoffix I guess good. :)
15:35 dogbert17 :)
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15:35 dogbert17 just avoid reddit and twitter :)
15:35 pmurias Zoffix: the later is what the PR does
15:36 Zoffix pmurias++ sweet
15:36 Zoffix dogbert17: nah, I'm trying something new and reddit and twitter are good now.
15:36 Zoffix .oO( It's working! )
15:38 * dogbert17 relocates &
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16:29 Geth ¦ rakudo: Skarsnik++ created pull request #1137: Add a source-address parameter to IO::Socket::INet.pm
16:29 Geth ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1137
16:30 Skarsnik gah this pr sucks. It added some dumb commit ><
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16:36 Zoffix git pull --rebase will avoid merge commits and will rebase instead
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16:46 Skarsnik I think I will wait for the previous pr to be pulled before redoing this x)
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17:39 Zoffix Observation: last release was 200th release of Rakudo, based on the available git release tags: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/releases
17:39 Skarsnik Yes !
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19:32 samcv i'm trying to decide on the maximum length of a needle allowed for knuth morris pratt algorithm
19:33 samcv so basically, we need to allocate an array the same size as the size of the string, so a 32bit integer array for the length of the needle. i haven't merged the KMP algorithm in yet but
19:33 samcv atm i had it set at 100. but i could set it much higher. the thing is, it must process the needle before starting the index operation, so it does take some time
19:34 samcv though most of the time needles are a lot smaller than 100 long
19:35 samcv idk maybe i should set it to 200? anybody have any ideas?
19:36 moritz doesn't the algorithm become more efficient with larger needle length?
19:36 moritz I'd go with something like 16k as the upper boundary or so
19:39 Skarsnik running out of space on / is not fun x)
19:40 samcv 16k?
19:40 samcv i mean it has to process the whole size of the needle though
19:41 moritz is that slow?
19:41 samcv it's not slow but it does take the time you need to access all the elements in the needle
19:42 perlpilot samcv: what would happen when they specify a needle bigger than the maximum?  Does it use a different algorithm?
19:42 samcv it falls back to how it did before which is brute force
19:43 samcv like a needle that's 1000004 long it ends up being slower
19:43 perlpilot samcv: maybe 4K?
19:43 samcv a needle 100004 it's about even
19:43 samcv yeah 4k i could do
19:44 samcv also it has to allocate double the size of the needle in memory fyi
19:44 samcv to do the algorithm
19:45 samcv 4k seems fine though
19:47 samcv not sure if i should allocate onto the stack or use malloc. could put 4k graphemes on the stack if i wanted to
19:47 samcv (i think)
19:48 samcv not sure of stack sizes on non-linux os's
19:48 samcv that's only like 16kb
19:49 samcv should be fine and avoid a call to malloc
19:49 perlpilot you could make it auto-tune to the OS in use   :)
19:50 samcv well since i already know the max size of 4000 graphemes that's 16kb which is small enough to put on the stack. though if i didn't have an upper bound i'd want it to use malloc
19:51 samcv also if the needle is made up of strands it flattens it for the operation as well. so we could end up using even more space (though the flattened needle is malloced not put onto the stack)
19:52 samcv but in my tests that is faster since accesses to the needle are just straight array lookups
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23:20 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 593fa5f87f | (Samantha McVey)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION
23:20 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Bump NQP/Moar to get Knuth-Morris-Pratt string search
23:20 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
23:20 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Plus other fixes and improvements.
23:20 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Full MoarVM changes brought in:
23:20 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 371b579a Set the needle limit to 4096 for KMP algorithm
23:20 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 01a35b27 Shorten text of 'failed to resolve' exception
23:20 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: 62f66cbf Ensure strings created with MVM_string_repeat are in NFG form
23:20 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: <…commit message has 12 more lines…>
23:20 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/593fa5f87f
23:20 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/2017.08...2017.08-1-g99f01d2cd
23:20 samcv bam
23:25 MasterDuke i don't see the moarvm bump in nqp?
23:43 samcv MasterDuke, ok fixed :) sorry
23:43 Geth ¦ nqp: 99f01d2cd8 | (Samantha McVey)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION
23:43 Geth ¦ nqp: Bump MoarVM to get Knuth-Morris-Pratt string search
23:43 Geth ¦ nqp:
23:43 Geth ¦ nqp: Plus other fixes and improvements.
23:43 Geth ¦ nqp: Full changes brought in:
23:43 Geth ¦ nqp: 371b579a Set the needle limit to 4096 for KMP algorithm
23:43 Geth ¦ nqp: 01a35b27 Shorten text of 'failed to resolve' exception
23:43 Geth ¦ nqp: 62f66cbf Ensure strings created with MVM_string_repeat are in NFG form
23:43 Geth ¦ nqp: <…commit message has 12 more lines…>
23:43 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/99f01d2cd8
23:43 Geth ¦ nqp: version bump brought these changes: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/compare/2017.08.1...2017.08.1-19-g151a2563

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