Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-dev, 2017-10-16

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01:57 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
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06:32 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
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08:09 timotimo i think the Supplier doc page ought to also mention Supplier::Preserving
08:55 Zoffix Yeah. I was supposed to document it... like a year ago: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-12-22#i_13786869
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08:56 Zoffix Oh, that's a log of me forgetting about. It's 13 months ago: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-09-16#i_13221172
08:56 Zoffix ^_^
09:05 timotimo :D
09:49 |Tux| This is Rakudo version 2017.09-431-ge52c8affa built on MoarVM version 2017.09.1-594-gb9d3f6da
09:49 |Tux| csv-ip5xs        1.158 -  1.194
09:49 |Tux| test             8.457 -  8.522
09:49 |Tux| test-t           3.080 -  3.103
09:49 |Tux| csv-parser       0.831 -  0.844
10:13 Zoffix buggable: speed 100
10:13 buggable Zoffix, ▆▆▆▇▆▆▅▅▇█▇▇↑↑▆▆▆▆▅▅▅▆▅▆▅▅▆▅▅▇▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▆▇▅▇▅▄▇↑↑▇▄▃▂▃▃▂▃▃▃▃▄▆▃▄▃▄▇▃▂▂▂▃▃▃▃▃▄▃▃▃▄▄▂▄▂▂▃▂▂▂▅▃▁▂▁▂▁▁▁▁▁▁ dates: 2017-09-10–2017-10-16; range: 3.071s–4.237s; speed: 14% faster (widths: 10/3)
10:40 lizmat Files=1227, Tests=75680, 319 wallclock secs (14.65 usr  5.10 sys + 2217.21 cusr 209.33 csys = 2446.29 CPU)
10:40 yoleaux 11 Oct 2017 02:10Z <MasterDuke> lizmat: i've got a question about multis and find_best_dispatchee here https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-10-10#i_15286003, with some relevant info here https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-10-11#i_15286163
10:40 yoleaux 13 Oct 2017 06:23Z <AlexDaniel-> lizmat: this does not look right, but the commit seems to be innocent. What do you think? Let me know if I have to rakudobug it https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/de2c5f1fe66b1606589041ca10c82f50
10:40 yoleaux 14 Oct 2017 02:44Z <AlexDaniel-> lizmat: fwiw please feel freer to reject my latest regression tickets
10:40 yoleaux 14 Oct 2017 04:36Z <AlexDaniel-> lizmat: does this look alright? Let me know. c: 21b9a720c7^,21b9a720c7 dd Set.Mix
10:40 yoleaux 14 Oct 2017 06:43Z <AlexDaniel-> lizmat: fwiw RT #131966
10:40 yoleaux 15 Oct 2017 07:46Z <Zoffix> lizmat: any idea why this commit fixes RT#131925? Trying to figure out if the bug is proper-fixed or if it just doesn't get triggered with the OP code. https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8a0f6ac110b42a37a352e46c32736bac59f9ba83
10:40 yoleaux 15 Oct 2017 13:38Z <AlexDaniel-> lizmat: RT weekly https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/0f20a508bff0f7e9edd4e4d1d94002e2
10:40 yoleaux 15 Oct 2017 14:19Z <AlexDaniel-> lizmat: for p6weekly (please feel free to reword as you wish): https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/7eb90c85fa71014242213f0bceda6c2f
10:40 yoleaux 15 Oct 2017 23:52Z <b2gills> lizmat: I recommend just indenting code blocks by 4 spaces on StackOverflow (along with one 「<!-- language-all: lang-perl6 -->」 at the top of Perl 6 posts) https://stackoverflow.com/posts/46742643/revisions
10:40 yoleaux 15 Oct 2017 23:52Z <b2gills> lizmat: Also it might be a good idea to add one or more OpenID logins to maintain control over your answers.
10:40 synopsebot RT#131966 [new]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131966 [REGRESSION][9999] Shaped native arrays with negative sizes (my int @a[-9999999999999999])
10:40 synopsebot RT#131925 [open]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131925 [BUG] [REGEX] Smartmatch against `m//` operator mishandles junctions
10:41 lizmat *sigh*
10:41 timotimo greetings lizmat :)
10:46 lizmat hi timotimo
10:46 lizmat was pleasantly surprised buy the spectest drop in wallclock
10:46 Zoffix lol
10:47 Zoffix lizmat: it was only 'cause a very long test was move to stresstest, not because stuff got faster
10:47 lizmat last one I reported was 346
10:47 timotimo wasn't that just throwing a very expensive test out of spectest and into stress... yes
10:47 lizmat ah..  :-(
10:47 Zoffix :)
10:49 lizmat still... it helps me  :-)
11:03 timotimo lizmat: you had some startup measurements recently; i put an optimization for startup speed in shortly after that. could you give the new measurement? (and perhaps dig up the old one as well?)
11:03 timotimo (while i BBIAB)
11:09 lizmat timotimo: the lowest I just got was 104 msecs
11:10 lizmat but usually it is around 132 msecs
11:10 lizmat I wonder what's causing this huge difference: possibly just clocking on my MBP, which is rather cold atm
11:10 lizmat and thus clocked a bit higher
11:11 lizmat fwiw, it feels in general it's now ~3 msecs faster
11:29 timotimo that's not much :<
11:36 timotimo jnthn: i've mulled over the case ufobat has where IO::Socket::Async::SSL.listen would quit its supply when a protocol problem happens. i don't see a way to actually keep the listening socket open when that happens. it might be a good idea to emit a "dummy" io::async::ssl socket that immediately quits any supply tapped on it or dies any write done to it
11:36 timotimo so that you can have a QUIT and CATCH inside the data-whenever and bring down only the individual connection, not the whole listen socket
11:36 timotimo because surely you don't want to open the socket over and over
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12:26 Geth ¦ nqp: 57453ad409 | pmurias++ | 2 files
12:26 Geth ¦ nqp: [js] Support returning simple values from native calls
12:26 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/57453ad409
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12:55 Zoffix m: <a b c>.grep({.chars and not *.ends-with: "b" and not 0}).say
12:55 camelia rakudo-moar e52c8affa: OUTPUT: «(a b c)␤»
12:55 * Zoffix just spent $x minutes trying to debug this bug
12:56 Zoffix s: ((*.so)), 'Bool', \()
12:56 SourceBaby Zoffix, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e52c8affa/src/core/Mu.pm#L102
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12:57 Zoffix guess there is some usecases where you'd want a WhateverCode.Bool for legitimate reasons, so it can't be improved
12:57 lizmat m: <a b c>.grep({.chars and not .ends-with: "b" and not 0}).say # this what you meant ?
12:57 camelia rakudo-moar e52c8affa: OUTPUT: «(a c)␤»
12:57 lizmat ah, yes..  because sometimes a WhateverCode could be an optional parameter
12:57 Zoffix Yeah. I rewrite a .grep(*.ends-with: 'b') to a more complex conditional and the left over `*` made things wrong :(
12:57 Zoffix *rewrote
12:59 Zoffix ZofBot: remnew 5d4h document Supplier::Preserving
12:59 ZofBot Zoffix, Will remind out on 2017-10-21T12:59:20.464653-04:00 about document Supplier::Preserving
12:59 lizmat m: sub a($a?) { say $a("foo") if $a }; a; a *.u
12:59 camelia rakudo-moar e52c8affa: OUTPUT: «No such method 'u' for invocant of type 'Str'. Did you mean 'uc'?␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
12:59 lizmat m: sub a($a?) { say $a("foo") if $a }; a; a *.uc
12:59 camelia rakudo-moar e52c8affa: OUTPUT: «FOO␤»
12:59 Zoffix \o/ :) made it remind me of stuff
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13:39 gfldex Zoffix: let me remind you that you don't need reminding because of https://github.com/perl6/doc/pull/1609
13:40 jnthn timotimo: Hm, yeah, just seen the issue
13:41 jnthn timotimo: Alternatively, any connection that doesn't even make it past the handshake stage could just be closed
13:41 timotimo aye
13:41 timotimo that's probably nicer. not really necessary to know about these
13:41 jnthn I think I'll do that as it's the easiest option
13:41 timotimo though perhaps a .errors-supply could be had
13:42 jnthn And if somebody does some day wish to know about them then we can figure out a way to enable that with some option
13:42 timotimo :failures-okay ;)
13:48 Zoffix gfldex: ok. Thanks.
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14:11 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: d6a9edacf2 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | 2 files
14:11 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Remove unneeded var, improve push-all on native arrays
14:11 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom:
14:11 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: Mentioned in RT #132306, this is what I probably had in mind working
14:11 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: on that.
14:11 Geth ¦ rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d6a9edacf2
14:11 synopsebot RT#132306 [new]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=132306 [PERF] parameters, even if unused, make stuff slower ( f1($a, $, $, $, $, $) vs f2($a, $b, $c, $d, $e, $f) )
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14:19 japhb .ask moritz Is there any good reference for how to write (and/or use) a grammar so that it will produce useful error messages?  Will your upcoming book cover that?
14:19 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to moritz.
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14:22 timotimo https://github.com/moritz/Grammar-ErrorReporting check this out
14:22 moritz japhb: yes, the upcoming book has a whole chapter on that topic
14:22 yoleaux 14:19Z <japhb> moritz: Is there any good reference for how to write (and/or use) a grammar so that it will produce useful error messages?  Will your upcoming book cover that?
14:22 timotimo moritz: shouldn't the name field in ErrorReporting's META6.json have :: instead of - between the words?
14:22 moritz japhb: you can preorder it now; ETA is this year
14:23 moritz timotimo: I have no idea
14:24 timotimo it's probably not so critical, it just looks weird to have it called Grammar-ErrorReporting on modules.perl6.org
14:24 gfldex :: would be better. Makes it search friendly
14:27 moritz updated
14:31 buggable New CPAN upload: Grammar-ErrorReporting-0.2.tar.gz by MORITZ https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/M/MO/MORITZ/Perl6/Grammar-ErrorReporting-0.2.tar.gz
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14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: cc2a064395 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 4 files
14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: Extract some Seq methods onto a Sequence role
14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework:
14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: This will also be done by HyperSeq and RaceSeq, after upcoming changes
14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: to how they are implemented.
14:53 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cc2a064395
15:17 Zoffix m: -> Int:D() $x { dd $x }("1")
15:17 camelia rakudo-moar d6a9edacf: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in binding to parameter '$x'; expected Int but got Str ("1")␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
15:17 yoleaux 14:32Z <[Coke]> Zoffix: Thanks for Proc::Q, it's basically exactly what I needed to build.
15:18 Zoffix m: -> Int() $x { dd $x }("1")
15:18 camelia rakudo-moar d6a9edacf: OUTPUT: «Int $x = 1␤»
15:18 Zoffix Coersers to a :D ain't working... I could've swore I used them in the past
15:18 Zoffix m: -> Int:D() $x { dd $x }(1)
15:18 camelia rakudo-moar d6a9edacf: OUTPUT: «1␤»
15:19 Zoffix And they're probably only working because they don't need to coerce anything 😟
15:20 jnthn I'm not even sure what they'd mean
15:21 Zoffix Int:D() => Coerce from Any to Int, ensuring you got an Int:D at the end
15:22 jnthn Ah, so it'd not a coercer to :D type, just a check that the :D applies to the coerced result?
15:22 jnthn Guess that makes sense.
15:22 Zoffix Yeah
15:22 jnthn Though -> Int(Any:D) $x { } is probably quite likely safer
15:22 jnthn m: say Int.Int
15:22 camelia rakudo-moar d6a9edacf: OUTPUT: «(Int)␤»
15:23 jnthn m: say Str.Int
15:23 camelia rakudo-moar d6a9edacf: OUTPUT: «Invocant of method 'Int' must be an object instance of type 'Str', not a type object of type 'Str'.  Did you forget a '.new'?␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
15:23 jnthn Heh, I thought it'd be a warning and 0
15:23 Zoffix m: -> Int(Any:D) $x { $x.DEFINITE.say }(class { method Int { Int } }.new)
15:23 camelia rakudo-moar d6a9edacf: OUTPUT: «False␤»
15:24 jnthn Well yeah, somebody *can* write that, but it's unlikely a defined value would coerce into a type object
15:25 Zoffix The fact that it silently fails is certainly LTA.
15:25 jnthn Indeed
15:25 Zoffix I probably used it in core even
15:25 Zoffix jnthn: so should it DWIM and coerce to type + :D check or should it error out?
15:26 jnthn Whichever somebody has the time/energy to implement, I guess ;)
15:26 jnthn I mean, I'd prefer the first, but the second is surely easier :)
15:26 Zoffix I prefer the first too
15:27 Zoffix There are even roast tests for this even (fudged it seems tho)
15:28 Zoffix gonna try to take a crack at it on the weekend
15:28 jnthn Nice :)
15:28 Zoffix |5d make Int:D() do things
15:28 ZofBot Zoffix, Will remind you on 2017-10-21T11:28:20.708273-04:00 about make Int:D() do things
16:04 tbrowder .tell jnthn Would breaking out a separate TablePod class in new file TablePod.nqp be considered if I go in that direction?
16:04 yoleaux tbrowder: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
16:13 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: 2352efe513 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 9 files
16:13 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: Gut current, broken, hyper/race implementation
16:13 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2352efe513
16:13 jnthn tbrowder: What benefits would it have?
16:13 yoleaux 16:04Z <tbrowder> jnthn: Would breaking out a separate TablePod class in new file TablePod.nqp be considered if I go in that direction?
16:14 jnthn (Genuine question; I don't know that area of the code much at all :))
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16:27 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: d43b373850 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 8 files
16:27 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: Start to add guts of new hyper/race implementation
16:27 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d43b373850
16:27 tbrowder jnthn: depending on my changes, just a little isolation  of table-specific code. maybe instead have methods inside the main table sub?
16:27 tbrowder or subs?
16:27 jnthn Perhaps that, yeah
16:28 tbrowder ok, thanks!
16:28 jnthn Breaking things up into manageable pieces is generally a good thing to do :)
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16:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: dfa230f7bd | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 3 files
16:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: Add new hyper/race pipeline builder
16:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework:
16:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: This is the part that kicks off parallel workers. It does so using
16:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: non-blocking constructs, so as not to exhaust the thread pool and to
16:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: play nice with other tasks ongoing in the pool. This also means we'll
16:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: have nice behavior if a parallel worker does a `react` or `await` (so,
16:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: non-blocking under 6.d.PREVIEW). Support for rebatchers still to come.
16:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dfa230f7bd
16:42 gfldex I can't wait to .hyper All The Things!
16:43 jnthn I'd only hyper those where there's enough work to make it worth it :P
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17:39 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: 1fdc84fe04 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 6 files
17:39 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: Start new HyperSeq/RaceSeq, wire up hyper/race
17:39 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework:
17:39 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: Supports parallel evaluation of basic cases of map and grep.
17:39 Geth ¦ rakudo/hyper-race-rework: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1fdc84fe04
17:41 jnthn Hm, seems that passes S07-hyperrace/hyper.t and S07-hyperrace/race.t
17:41 jnthn At least as well as what was there before
17:41 jnthn Still more to do, of course
17:41 jnthn But right now, time to go home and prep dinner :)
17:42 jnthn oh, there are todo passes :D
17:42 jnthn OK, really home o/
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18:37 gfldex jnthn: the heisenbug in .hyper is not gone yet. Should it have been?
18:39 Zoffix Note the the work is in a branch.
18:40 gfldex that I noted and pulled
18:40 timotimo gfldex: what are you hypering so far?
18:41 gfldex https://gist.github.com/b9914d412c807f45d2d041d45726f2b2
18:42 gfldex in that example .hyper seams to return undefined values and Seq that are eaten already
18:42 gfldex just now I got a $_ that is Mu when it shouldn't
18:43 gfldex the bug seams to have a ~10% chance to trigger with 6 cores
18:43 gfldex it does segfault too
18:44 gfldex also it does heat up the water quite nicely :->
18:48 timotimo i just now saw that samcv's grant will be paid out \o/
18:49 samcv \o/
18:49 timotimo that has been on the tpf blog since the 7th
18:50 samcv should hopefully get paid soon. sent my W-9 to the right email and didn't get a response back after a week. forwarded it to [Coke] so hopefully will get through. he said the email may be behind a queue
18:50 * [Coke] has been trying very hard to post blog things in a timely fashion.
18:52 gfldex timotimo: I would not mind a critique of my attempt to .hyper to-json.
18:54 gfldex I just spotted a bug.
18:57 Zoffix I keep getting burned with `"Str does not support associative indexing"` 'cause I keep writing stuff like `"$!who{"@" if $!who or $!where}$!where"`
18:58 Zoffix We clearly should've used different brackets for hashes and code blocks :}
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19:04 timotimo i don't know what a W-9 is :)
19:05 * Zoffix turns timotimo in for tax evasion
19:05 Zoffix It's a US form for tax stuff
19:06 timotimo i see
19:07 timotimo i wonder how payment to european folks will work
19:07 timotimo (but first i have to do the actual work)
19:07 Zoffix They just sent me a cheque
19:07 timotimo that sounds easy
19:07 Zoffix It was :)
19:07 timotimo of course i have to figure out what process i have to go through to tax the money properly
19:08 gfldex first you have to talk to the toll office (if it crosses €10k)
19:08 timotimo it doesn't! :D
19:09 gfldex lucky you! :-D
19:09 AlexDaniel` releasable6: next
19:09 releasable6 AlexDaniel`, Next release in 4 days and ≈23 hours. 1 blocker. Changelog for this release was not started yet
19:09 lizmat timotimo: if you are not a US citizen, you should only have to deal with the local tax office (aka it's income for you)
19:09 releasable6 AlexDaniel`, Details: https://gist.github.com/a4f451219f22eabd6a94e2ef4648a76a
19:09 timotimo that doesn't seem terribly tricky
19:09 AlexDaniel` .tell brrt Hello. Any news on RT #132269 ?
19:09 yoleaux AlexDaniel`: I'll pass your message to brrt.
19:09 * timotimo BBL
19:09 synopsebot RT#132269 [new]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=132269 [REGRESSION][BUG] JIT removing loop construct and confusing last()
19:10 lizmat timotimo: most tricky thing in these situations is to actually set apart the money for taxes until they're due
19:11 timotimo as opposed to spending it all immediately? :)
19:12 lizmat yup
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19:54 jnthn gfldex: I've really no idea; the only indicators I have so far is that it passed a handful of local sanity tests I wrote and as I left the office I glimpsed some passing TODO tests from S07-hyperrace/.
19:55 jnthn gfldex: There may be more TODO'd ones it doesn't pass, and I sure didn't yet have time to go through all of the RTs on hyper/race to see where they stand. :)
20:12 b2gills Does that include the “<hyper race> X <map grep> done in reverse” ones? (race+map is the only one that works currently)
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21:11 gfldex HyperIterable and HyperSeq seam not to be specced. Is that intentional?
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22:02 lizmat And another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/10/16/2017-42-taking-ticketing-seriously/
22:04 MasterDuke are there any downsides to non-sigiled variables? other than the obvious (i.e., they're read-only)
22:07 timotimo they aren't read-only by themselves, they just don't get a scalar for free
22:08 MasterDuke right. i guess why i'm asking, any reason not to do an audit of all core sub/method signatures and make anything raw that can be?
22:10 Zoffix m: my $x = 100; sub (\z) { z = 42 }($x); say $x # they're not readonly at all :)
22:10 camelia rakudo-moar d6a9edacf: OUTPUT: «42␤»
22:10 timotimo it'll give you a read-write version of the incoming var if it has an actual scalar to go with it
22:14 MasterDuke "I'm stupid. You're smart. I was wrong. You were right. You're the best. I'm the worst. You're very good-looking. I'm not very attractive"
22:15 timotimo wait what
22:15 MasterDuke happy gilmore
22:16 * MasterDuke admits the first question included a less-than-completely-accurate statement along with it
22:17 MasterDuke but what about the second question?
22:19 Zoffix what was that? :)
22:20 Zoffix the stupid smart thing
22:21 Zoffix ZofBot: must be a human thing...
22:21 ZofBot Zoffix, Would had no being, If this salute my blood a jot; it faints me To think what follows
22:27 timotimo so, anybody know how printf with 0.3e0 gives an unlimited supply of zeroes?
22:38 MasterDuke heh, didn't mean to cause that much confusion, i have a bunch of friends who use that quote all the time
22:42 timotimo OK
22:45 timotimo i have a version of sprintf cut down to have no grammar pieces
22:45 timotimo now i can put debug info everywhere
22:45 MasterDuke ooo, faster?
22:47 timotimo well, i can change it now without recompiling nqp
22:47 timotimo so yeah, faster
22:47 timotimo it doesn't do anything except a single %f, though
22:48 timotimo m: say 0.3e0 - 0.3
22:48 camelia rakudo-moar d6a9edacf: OUTPUT: «0␤»
22:49 timotimo we actually represent 0.3 precisely?
22:51 timotimo ah, it's the same bug that breaks 1e-1 vs 0.1e0 i guess?
22:55 timotimo i don't want to fiddle around with this tbh

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