Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-dev, 2017-11-06

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Time Nick Message
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01:15 Zoffix :}
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02:56 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
03:50 japhb Zoffix: Why does https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-buggable/blob/master/lib5/Buggable/CPANUploads.pm#L3 specify 5.26?  What's needed from a Perl 5 that recent?  (My work machine I'm using system perl5, which is 5.18.2 .)
03:57 ugexe postfix deref wasnt introduced until 5.20
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04:10 japhb Ugh, at this point I'm pretty sure I've installed more perl5 deps than this module has *lines*
04:11 Zoffix japhb: I just always use latest.
04:12 * japhb goes the alternate route and starts turning off plugins in order to just test the one he's working on
04:15 Zoffix japhb: I told you awhile back that you can test plugins by running just them; without IRC::Client: perl6 -Ilib -MBuggable::Plugin::Speed -e 'Buggable::Plugin::Speed.irc-to-me: "speed" but role { method reply ($_) { .say } }'
04:16 * Zoffix .bed()
04:20 japhb Zoffix: *pshaw*  Like I can be expected to remember things.  You assume I have working memory.  :-P
04:21 japhb In all seriousness, I'd mostly forgotten that one.
04:39 Zoffix El_Che: (I was pre-occupied when you asked). In the picture, they're not "Perl 5" people. They're Perl people. The wording on that spread is very deliberate. Perl is the community; "Perl 6" is the language. The spread even nods that not everyone in the Perl community might be fans of "Perl 6"
04:39 * Zoffix rebeds
04:59 Geth ¦ rakudo: MasterDuke17++ created pull request #1236: Simplify INTERPOLATE and INTERPOLATE_ASSERTION
04:59 Geth ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1236
04:59 synopsebot RAKUDO#1236 [open]: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1236 Simplify INTERPOLATE and INTERPOLATE_ASSERTION
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07:43 [Tux] japhb, not from the last couple, but halfway. text added
07:54 [Tux] Rakudo version 2017.10-134-g77142fdb2 - MoarVM version 2017.10-58-gad8618468
07:54 [Tux] csv-test-xs-20      0.456 -  0.500
07:54 [Tux] csv-ip5xs           1.137 -  1.150
07:54 [Tux] test-t              3.291 -  3.701
07:54 [Tux] test               12.156 - 13.051
07:54 [Tux] csv-parser         12.405 - 12.866
07:54 [Tux] csv-ip5xs-20       12.996 - 13.160
07:54 [Tux] test-t-20 --race   20.745 - 21.307
07:54 [Tux] test-t-20          59.331 - 62.623
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09:29 lizmat Files=1229, Tests=75830, 317 wallclock secs (14.68 usr  5.29 sys + 2191.09 cusr 214.01 csys = 2425.07 CPU)
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09:47 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
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11:16 Zoffix I am. That's why people seeing that spread now; to voice their concerns :)
11:26 Zoffix Learning Perl 6 saw another update.
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14:30 pmurias does Telemetry have any tests?
14:31 lizmat pmurias: not yet, wondering where they should live though
14:31 lizmat pmurias: also in the middle of a refactor to make it fully pluggable
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14:40 pmurias lizmat: I guess where they should live depends on if we want to make Telemetry part of the language spec (if so in roast) if not I guess in rakudo-repo/t/07-telemetry
14:40 lizmat indeed
14:51 pmurias I would hesitate before making Telemetry part of the spec because as usefull and cool as it maybe it seems a bit platform specific
15:07 AlexDaniel yea
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15:10 El_Che on the other hand, the "keep the core small"-boat sailed a long time ago ;)
15:18 Zoffix It's a bit weird we've moved TAP::Harness out of the included modules, but keeping Telemetry in.
15:18 yoleaux 14:58Z <wander> Zoffix: I bump version for Pod::To::HTML, but cannot upgrade with zef. also seems doc.perl6.org don't build with the newest Pod::To::HTML. why?
15:21 lizmat Zoffix: no, because Telemetry is tightly bound to a version of Rakudo, TAP::Harness is not (or is it?)
15:21 lizmat afk& for a few hours
15:21 Zoffix Tightly bound how?
15:22 Zoffix The Debuger module too, we keep in the ecosystem,
15:23 lizmat well, the debugger regularly bitrots, so I'm not that's a good reason to keep it there
15:23 lizmat really afk&
15:52 ugexe it is tightly bound because it assumes implementation details of the compiler (X workers, Y workers)
15:54 Zoffix Ah
15:56 pmurias El_Che: it's not about keeping the core small but more about keeping stuff that can't be implemented on different platforms out
15:58 pmurias El_Che: we can still keep it in the rakudo repo without making it a part of roast
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17:09 El_Che pmurias: is there a list somewhere about supported platforms?
17:10 El_Che pmurias: I tried and failed to packaged on Solaris (before the stealth EOL from this year) and fwd someone that wanted to try to OpenCSW to get access to sparc machines
17:11 El_Che is it "everywhere libuv runs"?
17:11 pmurias El_Che: I'm not aware of one for moar
17:11 pmurias El_Che: rakudo also has the js and jvm backends
17:12 AlexDaniel just noticed: https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.compiler/2017/10/msg17371.html
17:12 AlexDaniel there's no body?
17:16 Zoffix ZofBot: it's just a head in a jar!
17:16 ZofBot Zoffix, https://gist.github.com/egmontkob/eb114294efbcd5adb1944c9f3cb5feda
17:17 Zoffix I have a body in the copy in my inbox
17:17 Zoffix I notice that mailing list got RT tickets up in it (not GH tho)
17:18 AlexDaniel your announcements render just fine
17:18 AlexDaniel I wonder how my messages are different
17:18 Zoffix AlexDaniel: your old one doesn't either: https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.compiler/2017/09/msg16767.html
17:19 Zoffix (but it does show up fine in my inbox)
17:19 Zoffix AlexDaniel: I see yours is signed or something
17:19 AlexDaniel yeah, but it's just an attached file
17:20 AlexDaniel could be it, but what now? Not sign my messages? :S
17:20 * AlexDaniel shrugs
17:21 Zoffix AlexDaniel: dunno. Here's what the messages look in my email viewer. Yours got fancy things and mine's just plain text: https://i.imgur.com/I7TDM6x.jpg
17:21 Zoffix ain't even got a "parts" knob
17:22 AlexDaniel hmm
17:23 timotimo hopefully ask@perl.org could help?
17:25 AlexDaniel I'll drop a message there
17:28 AlexDaniel heh, what a cool name
17:28 AlexDaniel “Ask”
17:28 ilmari it's norse for ash (as in the tree)
17:32 Geth ¦ nqp: a051854583 | pmurias++ | src/vm/js/Compiler.nqp
17:32 Geth ¦ nqp: [js] Take a named argument that might be passed
17:32 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a051854583
17:32 Geth ¦ nqp: 00e8bd16ce | pmurias++ | t/nqp/103-typecache.t
17:32 Geth ¦ nqp: Test accepts_type
17:33 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/00e8bd16ce
17:33 Geth ¦ nqp: 9d28fccb20 | pmurias++ | src/vm/js/nqp-runtime/strip-marks.js
17:33 Geth ¦ nqp: [js] Add missing file
17:33 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9d28fccb20
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17:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/js: ee213cb451 | pmurias++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION
17:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/js: [js] Use fixed nqp
17:40 Geth ¦ rakudo/js: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ee213cb451
17:47 japhb .ask [Tux] Could you remember the lines in speed-all.log that contain "I'll try to remember to run the timings later today. System is rather busy"?
17:47 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to [Tux].
17:47 japhb .ask [Tux] s:1st/remember/remove/
17:47 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to [Tux].
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18:01 japhb .tell Zoffix perl6-buggable PR waiting for you.
18:01 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
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18:05 Zoffix buggable: speed
18:05 yoleaux 18:01Z <japhb> Zoffix: perl6-buggable PR waiting for you.
18:05 buggable Zoffix, ▁▁▅█▄▅▂▃▃▇▄▄▄▅▅█▃▃▆█▄▅↑▇▅▇ dates: 2017-10-26–2017-11-06; range: 19.341s–22.174s; speed: 7% slower (widths: 9/3)
18:05 Zoffix buggable: test-t speed
18:05 Zoffix buggable: speed test-t
18:05 buggable Zoffix, ▂▅▁▂▂▂▃▄▅█▅▇▂▃▄▄▇↑▂▃▁▂▂▂▁▂▃▄▂▃▂█▃▆▄▄▄▄▅▆▄▅▅↑▅▆▅▆▅↑ dates: 2017-10-18–2017-11-06; range: 3.044s–3.701s; speed: 7% slower (widths: 9/3)
18:05 Zoffix neat; japhb++
18:07 Zoffix buggable: speed csv-R
18:07 buggable Zoffix, ▁▁▃▁ dates: 2017-11-05–2017-11-06; range: 0.150s–0.216s; speed: ~0% difference
18:07 Zoffix buggable: speed csv-ruby
18:07 buggable Zoffix, ▃▂▁▁▃▂▁▁ dates: 2017-11-05–2017-11-06; range: 0.145s–0.221s; speed: 21% faster (widths: 4/2)
18:07 Zoffix :O
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18:11 japhb Buggable go bye-bye?
18:11 japhb buggable: speed tests
18:12 japhb Huh
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18:13 Zoffix buggable: speed tests
18:13 buggable Zoffix, Known performance tests: I'll, csv, csv-R, csv-c, csv-c-20, csv-cc, csv-easy-pp, csv-easy-pp-pi, csv-easy-xs, csv-easy-xs-20, csv-go, csv-ip5pp, csv-ip5xs, csv-ip5xs-20, csv-ip5xsio, csv-java10, csv-java6, csv-java7, csv-java8, csv-java9, csv-lua, csv-parser, csv-pegex, csv-php, csv-python2, csv-python3, csv-ruby, csv-rust-csvrdr, csv-rust-libcsv, csv-rust-qckrdr, csv-test-pp, csv-test-xs,
18:13 buggable Zoffix, csv-test-xs-20, csv-xsbc, csv_gram, first, ip5xs, test, test-t, test-t-20, test-t-20--race
18:14 japhb Oooh, what do I need to do to get the auto-splitting?
18:14 Geth ¦ nqp: 4e0dfc54d9 | usev6++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/io/ServerSocketHandle.java
18:14 Geth ¦ nqp: [jvm] Implement close for ServerSocketHandle
18:14 Geth ¦ nqp:
18:14 Geth ¦ nqp: Makes S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t pass (once nqp::getport is used)
18:14 Geth ¦ nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4e0dfc54d9
18:14 Zoffix japhb: a manual hack, which probably should be part of IRC::Client's functionality: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-buggable/commit/ca68c292c4fe7201cf4bee63be638e05114da085#diff-b1d283f4fcad1e15f62b74b3e4604713
18:15 japhb Ah gotcha.  Yeah, that would be very useful.
18:32 * Zoffix frowns at questions on #perl6 being answered with a link to LGMTFY. Feels like not replying all is better.
18:32 Zoffix "If you cut this chain of souls, saying to someone, “Your step to me is the last step — go back and read the manual,” then their journey of joining the open source process is blocked, and they must find a new upstream before they can continue. So please don’t ever do that. Rather, help a person go down this road together. You can walk this road together much longer and go much farther." —
18:32 Zoffix https://medium.com/@audrey.tang/lessons-i-ve-learned-32f5d8107e34
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo: ab03b54cc4 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | lib/Telemetry.pm6
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo: Complete rewrite of Telemetry to allow for plugins
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo:
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo: - apart from :COLUMNS subs no longer being exported, there is no function diff
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo: - introduces the Telemetry::Instrument role, for creating instruments
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo: - introduces Telemetry::Instrument::Usage, data found in nqp::getrusage
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo: - introduces Telemetry::Instrument::ThreadPool, data related to $*SCHEDULER
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo: - introduces the Telemetry::Sampler class, for keeping which instruments to use
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo: - introduces $*SAMPLER, the Telemetry::Sampler class used for snapping
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo:   - defaults to <Usage ThreadPool>, as in the previous incarnation
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo: - introduces %*ENV<RAKUDO_TELEMETRY_INSTRUMENTS> to specify default instruments
18:46 Geth ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ab03b54cc4
18:47 lizmat *phew*  even writing the commit message was a lot of work  :-)
18:48 Zoffix :)
18:49 Zoffix lizmat++
18:52 bartolin audreyt++ (and Zoffix++ for posting that link)
18:59 AlexDaniel reading audrey++ posts makes me feel like garbage sometimes. So much room for improvement.
19:16 [Coke] (lmgtfy) yup, that was me, and I'm not happy I did it either.
19:17 [Coke] but given further discussion on that thread, I'm just going silent, I think.
19:32 Geth ¦ roast: d0255a76a1 | usev6++ | 4 files
19:32 Geth ¦ roast: [jvm] Update fudging for some tests
19:32 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d0255a76a1
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21:31 Geth ¦ rakudo: fc9e7241b1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | lib/Telemetry.pm6
21:31 Geth ¦ rakudo: Telemetry tweaks
21:31 Geth ¦ rakudo:
21:31 Geth ¦ rakudo: - make sure $*SAMPLER isn't started until after having loaded all modules
21:31 Geth ¦ rakudo:   - should allow for BEGIN %*ENV<> setting to be seen
21:31 Geth ¦ rakudo: - natural language grammar fixo
21:31 Geth ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fc9e7241b1
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22:05 Zoffix For the brochure: going with 1 page of OOP, then 2 spreads of grammars, with first spread being a marketing plug, and the second spread would be a micro tutorial with a grammar that mutates self. So it'd double (tripple?) as an example of grammars + OOP + sizable chunk of Perl 6 code (the rest of the example are Wow-y one liners, basically)
22:06 Zoffix And that puts it at 20-pages total.
22:06 lizmat wow  :-)
22:06 lizmat something I link to in the P6W ?
22:06 lizmat directly, I mean ?
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22:10 Zoffix lizmat: not yet. Next weekly.
22:10 lizmat okidoki  :-)
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22:39 lizmat and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/11/06/2017-45-uplink-established/
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23:17 Zoffix \o/
23:20 jnthn lizmat++
23:20 * jnthn reads
23:22 timotimo lizmat: there's a ) missing from the cro article bullet point list
23:23 Zoffix lizmat++ # good weekly
23:23 jnthn Wow, so much stuff :)
23:24 lizmat timotimo++  # fixed
23:24 * lizmat is tired and goes off to bed
23:24 lizmat good night, #perl6-dev!
23:26 jnthn 'night, lizmat
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