Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-dev, 2017-11-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:52 MasterDuke Zoffix: two overviews of papers about benchmarking https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/11/06/statistically-rigorous-java-performance-evaluation/ and https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/11/07/virtual-machine-warmup-blows-hot-and-cold/
01:06 Geth ¦ roast: 6c5aaa7e79 | (Samantha McVey)++ | S32-str/sprintf-b.t
01:06 Geth ¦ roast: Fix incorrect sprintf %b test with + and space options
01:06 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6c5aaa7e79
02:57 ilbot3 joined #perl6-dev
02:57 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
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07:18 Topic for #perl6-dev is now Perl 6 language and compiler development 2.0 | Logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/today | For toolchain/installation stuff see #perl6-toolchain | For MoarVM see #moarvm
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09:02 [Tux] Rakudo version 2017.10-146-gf8e1a5faa - MoarVM version 2017.10-58-gad8618468
09:02 [Tux] csv-test-xs-20      0.450 -  0.466
09:02 [Tux] csv-ip5xs           1.123 -  1.123
09:02 [Tux] test-t --race       1.332 -  1.562
09:02 [Tux] test-t              3.235 -  3.407
09:02 [Tux] test               11.847 - 12.554
09:02 [Tux] csv-parser         12.271 - 12.679
09:02 [Tux] csv-ip5xs-20       12.973 - 13.232
09:02 [Tux] test-t-20 --race   20.682 - 21.316
09:02 [Tux] test-t-20          58.863 - 60.968
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09:35 lizmat Files=1229, Tests=75812, 317 wallclock secs (14.58 usr  5.29 sys + 2188.44 cusr 214.70 csys = 2423.01 CPU)
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09:37 Geth ¦ roast: d8f56279d9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-str/sprintf-b.t
09:37 Geth ¦ roast: Unfudge now passing test
09:37 Geth ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d8f56279d9
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10:23 Zoffix 😂Oh gee
10:24 Zoffix https://www.reddit.com/r/perl6/comments/7brx09/perl6_killer_app_kickstarter/
10:25 jnthn I'm...not sure that's how killer apps have tended to happen :)
10:26 Zoffix :)
10:26 Zoffix Let's invent the next iPhone while we're at it.
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13:04 lizmat afk for the rest of the day&
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13:51 AlexDaniel Zoffix: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+install+rakudo
13:51 audreyable6 AlexDaniel, https://perl6.party/post/On-Troll-Hugging-Hole-Digging-and-Improving-Open-Source-Communities
13:51 AlexDaniel Zoffix: what are your thoughts on this ↑
13:52 AlexDaniel it can also give https://medium.com/@audrey.tang/lessons-i-ve-learned-32f5d8107e34 or http://pugs.blogs.com/audrey/2009/08/my-hobby-troll-hugging.html (picked randomly)
13:53 AlexDaniel (and currently that's all it does)
14:00 moritz audreyable6, really? I find that a bit creepy, TBH
14:00 audreyable6 moritz, I cannot recognize this command. See wiki for some examples: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/wiki/Audreyable
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14:03 AlexDaniel heh, it may be :) huggable is already taken, any other ideas?
14:04 timotimo "tangible6"
14:06 AlexDaniel pfffft :D :D
14:06 AlexDaniel that's a good one :D
14:10 timotimo i see i haven't lost my magic touch
14:14 timotimo that being said, i find the bot a strange thing to have
14:15 AlexDaniel you think it's better to have a human point out that giving links to lmgtfy is not that ok? :)
14:16 Zoffix AlexDaniel: I second moritz's comment :)
14:17 Zoffix Don't really get the point of the bot. The lmgtfy linkage is just one of a billion things that could be unwanted. Will there be a police bot watching over all of them?
14:18 AlexDaniel yea
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14:18 Zoffix I don't want people beaten over the head with troll hugging stuff. It's not something you can just shove in someone's face and expect people to obey.
14:18 AlexDaniel well, just giving a link isn't so much of policing I think?
14:19 AlexDaniel hmmm
14:19 Zoffix It's a 3,600-word article. It's not something you can just drop in the middle of an ongoing conversation IMO
14:21 AlexDaniel alright then. I'll keep it online for a lil bit in case it gives someone ideas on something useful that can be done, but won't even commit it.
14:21 Zoffix As for bot police... I see some people hate ZofBot and all it does is converse when asked. I imagine a right winge if a bot auto-triggered to reprimand someone.
14:21 Zoffix Sure :)
14:22 Zoffix ZofBot: it's OK... *I* will always love you.
14:22 ZofBot Zoffix, Fate had placed him in a London office, but what he really enjoyed was this unfettered travel
14:36 Zoffix Thought up another snippet that can tell you whether you're using Perl 5 or Perl 6: .1 + .2 == .3 and say "Perl 6" or say "Perl 5"
14:36 Zoffix :)
14:41 [Coke] Has anyone other than me sent out a lmgtfy link in recent memory? You could just ask me not to do it again. (Which someone already asked in general, and I agree). Not sure that I've given any indication that I'll be a serial offender and require a bot to nag me.
14:43 Zoffix :D
14:44 Zoffix Haha, log shows TimToady himself as an offender :D https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/search/?nick=&q=lmgtfy
14:45 Zoffix Looks like we do it about once a year. Hardly an epidemic :P
14:46 AlexDaniel I thought it might me a good start, but whatever :)
14:46 AlexDaniel be
14:46 Zoffix AlexDaniel++ # A for effort.
14:46 AlexDaniel xD
14:56 jdv79 i use lmgtfy on ocassion
15:00 Zoffix I bet the recepients were very greatful for your help :)
15:00 * Zoffix & for rest of the day
15:01 jdv79 they probably got what i would have gotten for them plus a hint
15:03 jdv79 in the grand scheme is it worth getting worked up over?
15:05 jnthn http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+it+worth+getting+worked+up+over :P
15:05 tangible6 jnthn, http://pugs.blogs.com/audrey/2009/08/my-hobby-troll-hugging.html
15:07 Zoffix jdv79: "If you cut this chain of souls, saying to someone, “Your step to me is the last step — go back and read the manual,” then their journey of joining the open source process is blocked, and they must find a new upstream before they can continue. So please don’t ever do that. Rather, help a person go down this road together. You can walk this road together much longer and go much farther."
15:07 Zoffix —  https://medium.com/@audrey.tang/lessons-i-ve-learned-32f5d8107e34
15:08 Zoffix jdv79: I think "in the grand scheme of things", is it worth you giving such a reply at all, if you can't be bothered to engage with that human at all?
15:09 Zoffix It's not even "You can probably find something useful if you search for FOO" type of an answer. It's "you are too stupid to search for this, so here, I did it for you". In fact, the old version of lgmtfy used to show a message to that effect at the end of the animation
15:12 DrForr Maybe the answer is as simple as changing the macro name? "keyword-to-search" instead of lmgtfy?
15:14 DrForr (and redirecting to a Google page with the keyword ready, or one of our pages that we have control over?)
15:19 DrForr Or, somewhat harder, change channel behavior to say "Oh, in Perl 6 it's called X, try searching for that" instead of typing 'lmgtfy X'
15:23 [Coke] ... Again, lmgtfy is not an endemic problem here.
15:25 AlexDaniel .oO( https://i.redd.it/ez3tte6xnrwz.jpg )
15:27 [Coke] O_o
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16:17 Zoffix https://www.mappingthejourney.com/single-post/2017/11/09/episode-13-interview-with-damian-conway-designer-of-perl-6-programming-language/
16:25 stmuk http://rakudo.org/2017/11/09/announce-rakudo-star-release-2017-10/
16:29 Zoffix \o/ stmuk++
16:45 timotimo maybe next release we'll drop the "non-blocking i/o" part from "not quite finished"? and suggest sync i/o + threads is good enough for file accesses?
16:47 stmuk " non-blocking I/O (now works for sockets and process)" was changed and intended to say that. Are you suggesting just deleting the entire line?
16:53 Zoffix Probably. Are we meant to make any other IO non-blocking?
17:02 AlexDaniel stmuk++
17:22 ugexe [Coke]: imo that was one instance when lmgtfy was entirely appropriate
17:36 Zoffix ZofBot: LMGTFYGate
17:36 ZofBot Zoffix, 'You aren't going on the stage
17:36 Zoffix :(
17:39 ilmari Zoffix: LMGaTeFY
17:39 ilmari ZofBot: LMGaTeFY
17:39 ZofBot ilmari, test 11.841 - 11.852
17:39 ilmari (sorry, mis-tab)
17:40 Zoffix Actually, I have a useful datapoint on this one. Same person; same effective message: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-08-30#i_15090254 here, response: "thank you i completely understand your point. i'm just a little out of my element on this one";  https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-11-06#i_15410780 here, the response is "i can google just fine."
17:40 ugexe to put it into perspective I would not have continued helping that person if someone hadn't "scolded" them first
17:42 * Zoffix &
17:54 jdv79 thank the gofs async bugs are fewer.  my codes work!
17:55 jdv79 *gods
17:55 jdv79 its quite funner when stuff works:)
17:56 Zoffix \o/
18:14 Geth ¦ rakudo: d6cd0d2f53 | usev6++ | src/core/IO/Socket/INET.pm
18:14 Geth ¦ rakudo: Use nqp::getport on JVM
18:14 Geth ¦ rakudo:
18:14 Geth ¦ rakudo: This makes S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t pass.
18:14 Geth ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d6cd0d2f53
18:19 AlexDaniel releasable6: status
18:19 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in 9 days and ≈0 hours. No blockers. 0 out of 146 commits logged
18:19 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Details: https://gist.github.com/34b3767dd728d14b63dd5f32964f07e7
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20:38 Zoffix lizmat: I said "next Monday" for the brochure… I'm changing my mind and saying next-next-Monday. I'm a feeling a bit burnt out (I do this for work too and we've just finished doing a large catalogue), plus I have this awesome design book I never finished reading... so the extra time will let me read it :)
20:38 Zoffix Plus, there's this really awesome game I started playing: :) https://www.strangeloopgames.com/eco/
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20:41 Zoffix Sneak-preview of one of the spreads to make it up :) https://i.imgur.com/myE0tJJ.png
20:41 yoleaux 8 Nov 2017 15:23Z <wander> Zoffix: do we have tickets that report the same issue (improperly handle $*variable in REPL)?
20:46 Zoffix .tell wander Yes: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=78068#ticket-history    You can see all open tickets on https://fail.rakudo.party (plus GitHub Issues: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues   P.S.: we also have #perl6-dev
20:46 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to wander.
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