Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-release, 2016-02-01

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
05:44 cognominal joined #perl6-release
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07:45 FROGGS joined #perl6-release
08:01 nwc10 [Coke]_: Not sure who "Andy Weidenbaum <archbaum@gmail.com>" is and if he's here to ++, but the commit "fix parse_revision subroutine regex" looks like the quality job I didn't have time to do
10:11 El_Che joined #perl6-release
10:11 El_Che can someone point to the latest rakudo rc?
10:13 FROGGS El_Che: http://rakudo.org/downloads/rakudo/
10:17 El_Che thx
10:19 jnthn morning, #perl6-release
10:25 FROGGS o/
11:46 El_Che just wanted to test on rc if the "run/shell exit status is always 0 when :out is provided"
12:06 nine What's currently keeping us from having a release out?
12:15 El_Che hi nine, still in Brussels or already back?
12:18 cognominal joined #perl6-release
12:25 nine Already back home
12:25 nine And at the office ;)
12:58 cognominal joined #perl6-release
13:27 [Coke]_ nwc10: yah, I never heard of him, but seems good.
13:30 lizmat joined #perl6-release
13:32 [Coke] ok, cutting the 2015.01 release today; we got the release candidate out there, the new RC crap was the only issue I got feedback on.
13:32 [Coke] but again, dayjob, i'll do it this afternoon local time.
13:38 nine [Coke]++
13:38 FROGGS 2016.01*
13:38 FROGGS :o)
13:40 jnthn [Coke]++
13:42 [Coke] it's like when you play in a poker tourny - if your blinds are down, you don't have to pay the higher amount if the round changes before the cards are dealt. same thing, we had the RC out in january!
13:42 [Coke] ... yes, 2016, whoops!
13:42 [Coke] here's hoping I don't make that mistake anywhere!
13:43 [Coke] should we merge in the version handling bugfix that landed on nom?
13:43 [Coke] prolly?
13:43 nine +1
13:44 [Coke] just the commit, or the merge commit too?
13:45 [Coke] I imagine just cherrypick the commit itself, no?
13:45 nine just the commit
13:45 nine cherrypicking merge commits doesn't do anything at all anyway ;)
13:48 [Coke] picked.
14:11 perlpilot joined #perl6-release
15:53 jnthn So, at last, here's my proposed Perl 6 versioning guidelines: https://gist.github.com/jnthn/c10742f9d51da80226fa
15:54 jnthn I'm sharing them on this channel *before* #perl6, since it's quieter here and I expect there'll be a higher siganl to noise ratio :)
16:01 * [Coke] prints a hard copy to stare at.
16:02 jnthn Yes, 'fraid it's around 4,000 words worth.
16:07 [Coke] not done yet, but this is much more thorough than I was expecting, thank you!
16:08 _Gustaf_ joined #perl6-release
16:29 perlpilot jnthn++ (reading now)
16:39 FROGGS joined #perl6-release
16:50 perlpilot jnthn: on first read, looks good.  There was only one thing that immediately looked weird.  You talk about a QUIT phaser deprecation but the code is for a DONE token (I assume copy pasta).  Everything else needs time to gel in my head  :)
16:52 jnthn perlpilot: Fixed that one, thanks.
17:01 nine So we will continue to add methods to objects in the CORE.c.setting. Bummer...working in the 6.d setting has very fast turnarounds as it compiles in a second. I've started to like that ;)
17:02 nwc10 I think I missed something - what makes 6.d so much faster?
17:02 nine nwc10: the absent need to compile the 6.c setting when you don't change it ;)
17:02 jnthn nine: There's nothing to stop you prototyping in a normal file with an augment or so ;)
17:03 jnthn Well, OK, there can be things but... :)
17:03 nine or even prototype in the 6.d setting with augment.
17:03 jnthn nine: I think we'll keep calling CORE.c.setting jsut CORE.setting
17:04 nine Makes sense as most of the changes will still go into that one
17:04 JimmyZ jnthn: https://gist.github.com/jnthn/c10742f9d51da80226fa#coresetting-lexical-change-guidelines, look like 'multi sub' also implies 'multi method'?
17:04 jnthn No
17:04 nine JimmyZ: that's object changes
17:04 jnthn multi sub means a multi sub :)
17:06 nine jnthn: one thing I miss is a guide line about variables like @*ARGFILES or $*REPO
17:10 jnthn nine: Good point...that wants including.
17:11 jnthn Those will probably need something closer to object than lexical treatement, given they're dynamically scoped and people will expect they can insert API-matching things into dynamic scopes in order to override behaviors.
17:17 nine Yes, I think so, too.
17:35 nwc10 jnthn: I can't spot anything that should be changed (and missed both points that have already been raised)
17:56 TimToady this sentence is very difficult to understand and should be recast: An implementation must provide at least errata specification compatibility...
18:03 TimToady <?since_version('e')> could be written as <!!since_version('e')> to make it transparent to LTM, relying instead on LTM alterative rejection at runtime, in cases where that might be necessary or expedient
18:05 TimToady 'before' and 'since' strike me as a failure of parallelism
18:05 El_Che left #perl6-release
18:06 TimToady maybe 'since_verion' and 'until_version' would be better
18:08 * lizmat is reading jnthn's gist
18:15 * FROGGS also reads
18:30 perlpilot jnthn:  After letting it gel, I don't think I understand #3 under CORE.setting changes that are exempt from compatibility concerns.
18:31 perlpilot jnthn: Changing from a scalar binding to a raw binding seems like it could cause a compatibility problem depending on what was done with $a within the sub/method/whatever
18:33 [Coke] btw, kid51 is hosting a NYC perl 6 beginner's study group this saturday, which is basically my deadline for getting the first release of the year done (along with the R* work already done). My hope is that they'll be able to use the latest and greatest by then.
18:34 perlpilot [Coke]++
18:41 FROGGS jnthn: is this even proper English? "the class, after changes, should usable in place of an earlier version of itself"
18:42 [Coke] should *be is the edit that springs to mind
18:55 FROGGS jnthn: btw, would be nice to not just mark to-be-removed methods as deprecated, but also newly added methods with the version they got introduced
18:55 FROGGS so one could query new methods and tag his/her script the same
18:57 hoelzro since Perl 6 is a one hundred year language, which version would come after 6.z?
18:57 perlpilot hoelzro: we've got quite a while to figure that out :)
18:57 hoelzro true =)
19:14 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6-release
19:15 FROGGS[mobile] v6.aa, though that has some smell in German
19:18 * hoelzro .oO( v6.ä )
19:19 TimToady .oO( v6.2038 )
19:20 jnthn TimToady: Adopted the !! suggestion (thus removing the LTM note) and accepted until_version instead of before_version
19:21 jnthn FROGGS: Fixed the "should usable" -> "should be usable"
19:29 cognominal left #perl6-release
19:33 jnthn perlpilot: The "CORE.setting changes that are exempt from compatibility concerns" items really all implied that we preserve semantics; I've refactored that section to pull that rule up front and simplified the rest as a result.
20:17 moritz what's the status of the release, and can I do anything to help?
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21:00 jnthn TimToady: Attempted to re-word that awkward sentence.
21:00 jnthn Hope it's better.
21:00 jnthn TimToady: If not, please suggest what it should be. :)
21:01 jnthn nine's request for something on dynamics and FROGGS' request wrt "when was this introduced" I'll sleep on, and factor them in tomorrow. :)
21:13 FROGGS[mobile]2 jnthn++
21:28 nine jnthn++
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