Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-release, 2016-04-02

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:13 cognominal_ joined #perl6-release
04:24 cognominal_ joined #perl6-release
05:25 MadcapJake Never seen this error before: «Cannot find method 'mixin_attribute'   in any mixin at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 1286»
05:27 MadcapJake oops wrong channel xD
13:29 timotimo how should i manage the "what stuff should we put into Star" task?
13:30 timotimo post to perl6-users? discuss it here?
13:30 timotimo open an issue in rakudo/star?
13:31 timotimo also ... should we ship some example code with rakudo/star, or perhaps just the examples repository?
18:20 stmuk_ I'd see Rakudo Star as more a std library type thing (which is why I didn't think it should contain web frameworks)
18:21 stmuk_ I'd like to see LWP::Simple replaced by HTTP::UserAgent in a future star and maybe even OpenSSL support in star
18:21 stmuk_ also maybe a few more Data::Dump type modules
18:23 jnthn fwiw, I think we should be pondering retiring the "Rakudo Star" brand, in favor of "Perl 6 [Something nice here]"
18:23 nwc10 "Knoblauch"
18:23 jnthn And leaving the "useful and usable" label behind along the way.
18:23 nwc10 (this joke may only work with my daughter)
18:23 jnthn Is that German for cauliflower? :P
18:24 jnthn oh no, garlic :)
18:24 * jnthn probably gets through more that the appropriate amount of that while cooking :P
18:24 stmuk_ and just ship rakudo without any documentation or module installers?
18:25 japhb jnthn: There's an "appropriate amount" that you can use more than?  I DISAGREE, SIR.
18:25 jnthn stmuk_: Rakudo compiler releases would stay as today.
18:25 jnthn stmuk_: I'm mostly proposing a rebranding. :)
18:26 jnthn Because
18:26 jnthn 1) The stuff that goes into Rakudo Star is much more than just Rakudo. It's stuff from the whole Perl 6 community.
18:26 jnthn 2) We can not bother making people who say "I want Perl 6" have to understand what Rakudo is to grok what they're downloading up front.
18:27 jnthn Calling it "Perl 6 Powerpack" or "Perl 6 con pilas", but not as naff as those two, would probably be easier. :)
18:28 rjbs Chocolate Perl 6
18:28 jnthn (On folks who just want to run Perl 6, and not have to understand what That Rakudo Thing is)
18:28 stmuk_ I think the Rakudo (not for end users)/Rakudo Star (for end users) split is confusing enough now.  Not sure that renaming Star helps.
18:29 rjbs Is the idea that you will be shipping the same two things, possibly rebranded, or also adding a third with more stuff?
18:31 jnthn rjbs: The "same two things", though as part of dropping the R* brand and adopting a "Perl 6 X"/"X Perl 6" brand it may be a good time to consider exactly what its role is.
18:31 jnthn stmuk_: It helps by having folks who "want Perl 6" not have to care about what Rakudo is until they've a reason to care.
18:31 rjbs Are you definitely hoping to downplay the "rakudo" in the name of the rakudo dist?
18:32 jnthn rjbs: I'm more saying I think we should be thinking of it as a Perl 6 dist that happens to ship Rakudo as the "Perl 6 compiler" part, just as it ships NQP and MoarVM as the compiler tools/a VM parts.
18:33 rjbs My first instinct would be "Rakudo Perl 6" and "Rakudo Perl 6 $Ultimate" for some value of ultimate
18:33 rjbs I'm thinking in analogy to Steel Bank Common Lisp, Armed Bear, Common Lisp...
18:34 rjbs s/Bear,/Bear/
18:34 stmuk_ calling a mostly slimmed down (maybe with minimal new modules) Rakudo Star "Perl 6 Star" (or "Perl 6 Orthodox" or  ...) would confuse less people perhaps
18:34 jnthn stmuk_: Yes, but I think don't re-use the word Star, or we'll have endless confusion. :)
18:35 jnthn Ideally it'd be a word that conveys some kind of "batteries included"-ness or "what you need to get started"
18:35 stmuk_ . o O ( Supernova )
18:35 jnthn ;)
18:36 rjbs jnthn: Have you considered which you want to be the default?
18:36 stmuk_ "Perl 6 Plus"
18:36 rjbs Perhaps instead of "Perl 6 Rakduo" and "Perl 6 Rakudo Ultimate" what you want is "Perl 6 Rakudo" and "Perl 6 Rakudo Barebones"
18:38 timotimo p6 with bells
18:38 jnthn rjbs: I think the default thing we have prominently linked on perl6.org wants to be the "batteries included", and I don't even know the word "Rakudo" needs to appear in the name of that at all
18:38 timotimo perl six and silverware
18:38 timotimo Perl six and reinforcements
18:38 nwc10 Even Fedora would probably understand the intent of "" vs "barebones"
18:39 jnthn rjbs: Because I suspect that only makes people say "wait, so I want to run Perl 6, is this Rakudo thing the right thing?"
18:39 stmuk_ "Friendly Perl 6"
18:40 rjbs jnthn: On the other hand, not including Rakudo undercuts other implementations.
18:40 stmuk_ "Perl 6 with Wheels@
18:40 timotimo Perl six and top hat
18:41 stmuk_ "Pumpking Six" :)
18:41 timotimo Perl six magpie
18:42 timotimo i.e. collected some shiny stuff
18:43 jnthn rjbs: That was a much bigger concern back when there were a bunch of actively developed implementations. The question today is maybe more "does it put anyone off doing another implementation".
18:44 jnthn I mean, for sure we don't want to start calling things (beside the test suite) "Official" and so forth.
18:45 stmuk_ "Perl 6 Enterprise Edition"
18:46 jnthn Anyway, that's my few cents on it. I'm not really saying what should happen, so much as wanting there to be some more discussion on "what do we actually want our new user experience to look like" and "how do we brand things".
18:51 stmuk_ There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and ...
18:51 jnthn ...cache invalidation!
18:58 MadcapJake Perl 6 SDK
19:00 stmuk_ Perl 6 Toolkit
19:01 MadcapJake Perl 6 Platform
19:01 rjbs P6aaP
19:01 MadcapJake :P
19:01 timotimo Perl 6 as a Perl?
19:02 timotimo perl6 4 u
19:03 stmuk_ I think I favour renaming the compiler release "Barebones" and renaming R* to Perl 6 TBH
19:03 stmuk_ give the simple name to the masses
19:03 MadcapJake stmuk_: I think this is more about R* than anything
19:04 MadcapJake Rakudo will stay rakudo, R* isn't really properly named as it's just Rakudo plus a bunch of modules
19:05 MadcapJake I think SDK is the most fitting but it gives me the least fuzzies :)
19:05 timotimo i think rakudo itself would be the SDK, honestly
19:06 MadcapJake timotimo: but it's not, it's a compiler
19:06 timotimo the thing we're distributing would be the App Development Kit maybe :)
19:06 MadcapJake timotimo: app/software
19:06 MadcapJake app evokes too much phone/tabletness these days
19:07 MadcapJake Perl 6 Development Kit, how about
19:08 MadcapJake P6DK (sounds like P60,000)
19:09 rjbs . o O ( P6DRK ) ????????
19:10 MadcapJake o_O
19:37 japhb MadcapJake: Perl 6 DevKit?
20:29 lizmat joined #perl6-release
20:35 timotimo timo is back home
20:35 timotimo Perl6 Starter Kit?

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