Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-release, 2016-04-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:48 ilbot3 joined #perl6-release
01:48 Topic for #perl6-release is now »r̈« - Discussions about Perl 6 and Rakudo release strategies - http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-release/today
07:50 hankache joined #perl6-release
10:37 stmuk_ timotimo: is there much left for the new R*?
10:42 timotimo hmm, good question
10:42 timotimo i think not :)
10:43 timotimo i wanted to have the feature matrix cleaned up before pushing out an announcement
10:43 timotimo and rakudo.org seems to live again, which is a requirement for the release, too
10:44 stmuk_ do you mean http://perl6.org/compilers/features?
10:44 timotimo yes
10:45 stmuk_ maybe remove it since no other working implementations exist currently?
10:46 timotimo if that's not there any more we don't have anything like it to show what's there and what's lacking
10:47 timotimo like, the little bit at the end of the readme is extremely vague
10:47 stmuk_ well Niecza is dead and the JVM version doesn't work
10:47 timotimo "missing parts of S9 and S11"
10:48 stmuk_ maybe readd when JVM is functional once again
10:48 timotimo "async I/O is WIP"
10:49 timotimo the ROADMAP really wants a re-visit, too
10:49 stmuk_ maybe add some of the info (eg. "no goto") to R* README?
10:49 timotimo but that only goes into Rakudo, not in Rakudo *
10:49 timotimo so we have half a month to fix that
10:50 stmuk_ yeah it's not really a R* blocker
11:15 hankache i think that matrix comparison is fine. It gives us an idea on where we stand. That being said, niezca can be replaced with js once we have something viable.
11:15 hankache i think it will be nice to compare progress of moar/jvm/js
15:08 timotimo oh and also deciding whether to get a replacement for Bailador into Star or maybe bringing Bailador back
15:12 stmuk_ well I suppose it depends on what you actually see "star" as
15:13 stmuk_ personally I think it's a core module or std lib type distribution and that web frameworks don't belong in it
15:13 timotimo if we're really going to build Kaleidoscope with the next release, we'll be changing the selection of modules in the last release of Star for no obvious/good reason
15:13 [Coke] timotimo++ avoid churn, sure.
15:14 stmuk_ I don't think Kaleidoscope is a good name .. it's too long and hard to spell
15:15 timotimo tehn we'll just call it Kali?
15:16 stmuk_ its the name of a linux distro
15:16 timotimo what isn't?
15:22 stmuk_ anyway talking about changing the name of star just before a star release is probably a distraction
15:23 hankache everybody++ for your hard work
15:23 hankache CHeers!
15:27 hankache do i still have time to sneak in a new pdf for perl6intro?
15:27 hankache got the paralellism example to work
15:27 timotimo sure, you can do that :)
15:27 stmuk_ hankache++
15:43 hankache done
15:46 timotimo thanks, alot
15:46 hankache thank YOU
16:12 stmuk_ in Soviet Union thanks YOU
16:13 hankache hahahah
17:47 hankache joined #perl6-release
18:04 timotimo so i'm considering pulling in changes to modules again
18:04 timotimo Bailador just got sessions support, it seems like, we could pull that back in, too
18:07 stmuk_ why? perl 5 doesn't contain Dancer or even CGI.pm anymore
18:08 hankache imho the only 2 modules we should bundle are p6doc and panda (with required dependencies)
18:08 hankache then leave it up to the user to install whatever they want
18:09 timotimo no, absolutely not
18:09 timotimo R* is "batteries included"
18:09 timotimo not having Dancer or CGI.pm inside perl5 is just a matter of preventing "broken batteries included" like python's standard library
18:09 hankache hehe
18:09 hankache true
18:09 timotimo i mean
18:09 timotimo Dancer isn't broken
18:10 timotimo but you don't want to commit to having to ship Dancer for the next 30 years
18:10 stmuk_ its about putting the right sort of minimal batteries in .. not shipping the kitchen sink
18:10 nwc10 left #perl6-release
18:10 timotimo Rakudo Slimfast ?
18:11 hankache :D
18:11 hankache the problem with batteries included is the choice of the batteries
18:12 timotimo rakudo star is going to have its "second" "release", what with p6.c just being out the door for 3-and-a-bit months
18:12 timotimo it's not the right time to turn it into "well, it's just rakudo, panda, p6doc now"
18:12 timotimo i'm not seeing a problem with building at least one additional "official" distribution and phasing out R*
18:13 hankache indeed it is just a general opinion
18:13 hankache i am not proposing it for this release
18:13 hankache just an idea to think about
18:14 stmuk_ I don't believe anyone has suggested phasing out R* anyway .. it's basically a renaming
18:14 timotimo it seemed like a renaming and also a change in policies as to what gets included
18:15 hankache afk
18:16 stmuk_ I don't think there is much wrong with what's currently in right now TBH
18:17 stmuk_ the main danger is probably including too much
18:20 stmuk_ I suppose one way of looking at it could be modules of 2 sorts 1. obviousily core modules like p6doc, debuggers, module installers 2. stuff like web client libraries etc
18:21 stmuk_ I think 1. is only controversial with maybe zef
18:22 stmuk_ most problems are going to be with 2. and where the line is drawn
18:22 stmuk_ I'd see SSL connections in 2. as more important than MVC like web frameworks
18:23 timotimo you're right. not having SSL would be a serious problem
18:23 timotimo which of our modules gives you HTTPS again? i forget ...
18:23 stmuk_ I think it's OpenSSL at base and that's used by a socket library
18:23 stmuk_ I guess Windows might be a problem with this
18:24 timotimo no, i mean, like HTTP::UserAgent?
18:24 timotimo or something?
18:24 stmuk_ IO::Socket::SSL I think is used by OpenSSL
18:25 stmuk_ I guess that's used by  HTTP::UserAgent
18:25 timotimo OK
18:25 timotimo i do believe we have HTTPS working on windows
18:26 stmuk_ probably .. but not sure what the base C library used is
18:30 timotimo that's not so important to me
18:30 timotimo i'll just be preparing the source tarball
18:30 stmuk joined #perl6-release
18:30 timotimo if we have to supply a .dll for windows, so be it, but that's not my job right now
18:30 timotimo i'm trying to get a somewhat sane rakudo star release out the door
18:30 timotimo i don't seem to have completely enough tuits to do a good job, at the moment :\
18:31 stmuk https://github.com/sergot/openssl/tree/master/native-lib
18:32 stmuk they ship DLLs!
18:32 timotimo dude. 1 year ago?
18:32 timotimo what kinds of security issues are we getting with that?
18:32 stmuk ermmm good point
18:33 stmuk anyway as far as R* 2016.03 goes .. isn't it finished?
18:33 timotimo well, i'm considering pulling more recent commits in
18:33 timotimo and reinstating Bailador for now
18:34 stmuk but not ufo?
18:35 timotimo not ufo, no
18:35 stmuk why not?
18:35 timotimo because its purpose is lost
18:36 stmuk I've found it useful in past cases of panda breakage but I guess that hasn't happened in a while
18:36 timotimo you no longer need panda to get precompilation going
18:36 timotimo and ufo is also not necessary any more
18:38 stmuk well it probably doesn't matter one way or another
18:38 timotimo i'm not even sure ufo can actually be used to properly install something any more
18:38 stmuk and as regards other last minute changes I wouldn't bother .. the line has to be drawn at one point
18:38 timotimo i think it still just cp's over modules to some place?
18:39 timotimo well Bailador just got support for sessions, which is A Big Deal
18:39 stmuk it generates a Makefile from the meta file
18:40 stmuk I'm sure its good software I'm just doubting why its in other than for historic reasons
18:41 stmuk anyway your call I'm going to look for the cat
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