Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-soc, 2008-06-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
19:02 pmichaud joined #perl6-soc
19:28 [particle] joined #perl6-soc
19:31 [particle] hi-ho everybody
19:32 Auzon Hi.
19:32 pmichaud pong.
19:32 [particle] let's wait a moment and see if moritz_ shows up
19:33 Auzon moritz mentioned he wouldn't be here. He posted his report yesterday
19:33 [particle] aha
19:33 [particle] ok, then. what's up this week, auzon?
19:33 Auzon - S12 (Objects) is this week. It was supposed to be last week, but I accidentally did S29 last week.
19:33 Auzon - I'm using t/TASKS as a list of things to do directly related to the test suite. I have a fair stock of things in there to do, but I can always use more.
19:33 Auzon - Last week was unproductive due to other obligations. This week looks much better for productivity. I should be able to get the cases for S29 done along with my other work in the next week or two.
19:33 Auzon - I feel like searching for tasks takes up a lot of my time. It's not too difficult to find if something is already tested or where it's mentioned (ack++), but I find it hard to find completely new things.
19:33 Auzon I think that's it.
19:34 [particle] ok, i have nothing to report SoC-wise, this week.
19:34 [particle] pmichaud: anything relevant this week?
19:35 pmichaud I think so.
19:35 pmichaud while looking through spectests this past week I ran across S29-list/join.t
19:35 pmichaud I think there's likely an error in the test, but I'm not sure if my interpretation will match others
19:36 pmichaud (very bottom of join.t)
19:36 pmichaud so, I ended up just sticking a note there with "I think this is wrong" and leaving it at that.
19:36 pmichaud what would be a better approach, if any?
19:37 [particle] in parrot, in the past, we've used #TODO
19:37 pmichaud for "I think this is wrong?"
19:37 [particle] or #XXX but that's been phased out iirc
19:37 [particle] and every comment like that has been associated with a ticket
19:38 [particle] since we're not using a ticketing system for perl 6 test suite, but instead using t/TASKS for now
19:38 [particle] maybe you should put a note in there
19:38 [particle] however, i don't think that increases visibility much
19:38 Auzon I'm to blame for that change. :-/
19:38 [particle] so it's more likely that it should be reported to p6l
19:39 pmichaud Is that where we will likely get approval for changes to S29 ?
19:39 [particle] i can't imagine anywhere else
19:40 pmichaud and is there anyone besides TimToady who can make the call of "yes/no" on things?
19:40 pmichaud fwiw, I'm quite happy to take on that role, with the understanding that I may make wrong calls
19:40 [particle] sure
19:40 [particle] i think @Larry can make that call
19:40 pmichaud but _will_ they?
19:40 TimToady well, if there's broad consensus, I have no problem with other people changing S29
19:40 [particle] and it's not a secret club
19:40 pmichaud I'm having trouble getting beyond "consensus of 1"
19:40 [particle] s29 isn't out of draft yet
19:41 pmichaud or perhaps I'm just not understanding others' comments as indicating concensus.
19:41 [particle] is p6l notified of all svn diffs for S29?
19:41 pmichaud I don't believe so.
19:41 [particle] that's a shame, since it happens for the approved syns
19:42 [particle] it would allow folks to change what they need, and have a group review process automatically
19:42 pmichaud afaict there aren't any mail notifications of pugs svn commits.
19:42 [particle] no, but there are for perl6-doc
19:42 Auzon Can we set up a similar thing for that part of the pugs repo?
19:42 [particle] we can set one up special
19:43 [particle] i'll talk to the feather admins
19:43 Auzon Or maybe move things into a provisional part of perl6-doc?
19:43 pmichaud the big issue with perl6-doc is the limited number of committers
19:43 pmichaud that's the advantage of holding it in pugs repo for now -- easy commitbits.
19:44 [particle] yes, agreed
19:44 TimToady I'd almost rather put the official ones out in pugs
19:44 pmichaud I don't have an issue with that either
19:44 [particle] is there a license issue?
19:44 TimToady don't think so
19:44 [particle] if not, i'm for it, as long as we still have auto-change-notify
19:45 pmichaud there can't be much more of a license issue with spec docs as there is with spectests
19:45 TimToady I think more commiters will not be harmful, and consistency will be good
19:45 pmichaud but there's still the sticking point of email notifies from pugs repo.  That needs to be checked first.
19:46 TimToady yes, we're assuming that gets implemented
19:46 [particle] TimToady: you're definitely going to have a problem with folks updating Version
19:46 [particle] or not updating
19:46 TimToady I doubt anyone really uses that info
19:46 [particle] i've used it in the past when writing tests
19:46 [particle] it helped me there
19:46 pmichaud I think as long as Version is monotonically increasing, the points at which increments take place isn't terribly important
19:46 [particle] these tests are S05, version 8
19:47 [particle] but we could instead use S05 r20789
19:47 TimToady often I intentionally *don't* increment version when it's just typos
19:47 pmichaud or even  S05 2008-06-03
19:47 [particle] it is nice to track the spec version in the test files, to make maintenance easier
19:48 [particle] what do you think of that, auzon?
19:48 [particle] i know you haven't been doing this long enough that the spec has changed out from under you much
19:48 Auzon Hadn't thought of it. It'd be nice for the future, I agree
19:48 Auzon It'd be nice to search for a revision difference of more than 1000 or whatever.
19:49 pmichaud anyway, to get back to my original question
19:49 pmichaud what I think I'm hearing is:  (1) fix S29 the way I think it should read, (2) update the test to match, (3) post a message to p6l
19:50 [particle] pmichaud: that's what i'm saying, yes
19:50 pmichaud if (3) gets warnocked, then the change stays until someone brings it up again
19:50 TimToady as long as you fix it right  :)
19:50 pmichaud yes, it's the "fix it right" part that I'm concerned about. :-)
19:50 pmichaud I know I sometimes have off-the-wall interpretations of things.
19:52 pmichaud anyway, perhaps this merits some commentary in the perl6 design meeting
19:52 pmichaud so I'll save the rest for then.
19:52 [particle] auzon: is there anything you need from any of us, moritz included?
19:53 Auzon No, I think I'm OK. I'd love any TASKS you can throw at me.
19:53 pmichaud oh, yes, I have a comment there.
19:53 pmichaud well, probably not a good one.  But adding TASKS sounds like something that needs to go beyond just Auzon
19:54 pmichaud i.e., we might want to try to recruit people to update tasks
19:54 pmichaud "you don't have to find the answer to the question... just find the question"  :-)
19:54 [particle] yes, this is a good task for yapc::na
19:55 pmichaud but in the meantime, I'll start dumping spectest tasks that I run across into that file.
19:55 Auzon That'd make me a lot more productive if people can add tasks as they notice them. Hunting them can be difficult sometimes
19:55 pmichaud hunting is a good parallelizable activity.
19:55 pmichaud also can have low entry requirements.
19:55 TimToady my brain doesn't work that way, alas, which is why I'm not officially mentoring :)
19:55 Auzon Definitely, and even can be done in the background
19:56 pmichaud but I'll bring it up in my yapc::na presentations, hackathons, and workshops
19:56 Auzon Thanks, I appreciate it. :)
19:57 pmichaud I think I'll even carve out a section of my talk for "updating spectests"
19:58 [particle] ok, unless there' sanything else...
19:58 pmichaud auzon++ again for good work done and more to come.
19:58 [particle] see you all next week! thank you.
19:58 Auzon Oh. [particle], last week you said something about mentioning TASKS somewhere. Did you do that?
19:59 [particle] auzon: no, but i now have my rakudo.org account pw again, and wil ldo so
19:59 [particle] my space finger is twitchy today
19:59 Auzon OK, thanks all
19:59 pmichaud I was thinking about posting it also.  :-)
20:22 [particle] left #perl6-soc
22:18 Auzon joined #perl6-soc

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