Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-toolchain, 2016-02-04

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18:36 jdv79 ugexe: that trick seems to not have worked either.
18:36 jdv79 :(
18:36 ugexe jdv79: where did you put it?
18:36 jdv79 -                system( 'panda', '--force', 'install', $dist_dir );
18:36 jdv79 +                system( 'perl6', '-I', 'FakeDir', '/home/jdv/rakudo/install/share/perl6/site/bin/panda', '--force', 'install', $dist_dir );
18:37 jdv79 oops.  anyway, is that wrong?
18:37 ugexe ah yeah thats where i was going to suggest :(
18:37 jdv79 hmm.  ok..
18:37 ugexe if its the install the failing maybe it needs to go inside panda itself
18:38 ugexe the `run $prove-command, "-IFakeDir", $test-file`
18:38 jdv79 is there a PERL6LIB?
18:39 ugexe its set in panda somewhere
18:40 jdv79 o
18:42 ugexe do you happen to know what distributions it happens with?
18:52 jdv79 hack seems cranky
18:52 jdv79 having trouble doing anything atm
18:53 jdv79 i don't think its the same one
18:53 jdv79 it seems to chug along for a bit and then lock up on a new one each time.  i think.
18:55 jdv79 this time it happened to be panda itself
18:57 jdv79 yeah, panda didn't pass it along
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19:14 Cheery hi
19:39 Cheery https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/445hkw/i_need_inspirationadvice_for_caching_modules/
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19:46 jdv79 ugexe: any idea about where that's happening?
19:46 jdv79 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/505098
19:52 ugexe jdv79: hmm where what part is happening?
19:52 jdv79 where that second proc is being spawned
19:53 jdv79 its the same thing minus the -I FakeDir and subbing in a hashed path of panda
19:54 ugexe https://github.com/tadzik/panda/blob/b07101386e04d474367917602ea97cbaa2f485c4/lib/Panda/Tester.pm#L22
19:55 jdv79 oh, i was looking no
19:55 jdv79 no
19:56 jdv79 that's not what spawned the 2nd proc in my paste
19:56 ugexe oh i thought you were asking where one might be getting spawned. lemme look at the paste again
19:59 ugexe i think thats just the bin wrapper
19:59 ugexe as in, if bin/panda is the wrapper then it just launches the precompiled version of panda which is resourecs/<sha1>
20:00 jdv79 ah
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20:01 ugexe https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/CompUnit/Repository/Installation.pm#L71
20:01 ugexe thats where it gets launched
20:02 jdv79 thanks
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21:15 jdv79 i just saw the lock queue go from 10 to 2.  is that a dep chain?  this stuff is bizarre.
21:41 jdv79 i killed some procs.  seems to be ok now.  maybe its less common that i thought.  we'll see.  it seems to be chugging along a lot better now.
21:42 jdv79 i still don't totally get it but whatever
21:42 jdv79 *than
21:52 ugexe http://hack.p6c.org:5000/v0/release/_search?q=distribution:Data-Selector isn't loading anymore
21:52 ugexe jdv79: ^
21:53 jdv79 yeah, its weird.  something is binding up.  es?
21:54 ugexe it seemed to be working until like 10 minutes ago
21:54 jdv79 oh.  jeez.  its just plackup and there's a req locked up waiting for the cur lock to gen docs
21:54 jdv79 maybe its time to build it out a bit more
21:54 jdv79 so we really need locking? :)
21:54 jdv79 *do
21:55 jdv79 it worked for me now
21:55 ugexe yeah its loading now
21:55 jdv79 yeha, the lock queue cleared
21:55 jdv79 yippee
22:02 ugexe currently im stuck at there not being a consistent auth to search. For p6c the entire index is local so searching for auth/author + authority/author-only when encountering a :auth<xxx:yyy>. But for searching metacpan we don't have the entire index, so we need to know the field name to search before hand
22:04 ugexe as in I can easily create an auth from the information available. but that doesn't tell me which elastic search field i need to search on :(
22:05 ugexe this is more a general failing of the ecosystem as a whole though. `auth` should be required and the Distributions "ill just invent an auth since the author didnt specify one" needs to go
22:07 ugexe if you just shove in $!author when $!auth is missing then what separates $!author="github:foo" from $!author="foo", $!authority="github" (so $!auth="github:foo")
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22:57 raiph ugexe: want a rubber duck debugging session? i've about no idea what you're talking about but are there really three different things with such similar names: auth, author, and authority?
22:58 ugexe raiph: yes. auth is meant to be $owner (no one uses this) + $authority unless $auth is explicitly declared
22:59 raiph and "author"?
23:00 raiph ugexe: is "author" basically an alias for "owner"?
23:00 ugexe author is the author name, so i assumed this could be pretty much any value
23:01 ugexe author = "Joe Blow", owner = "joeb90". so owner is more like a cpan/github id
23:03 ugexe https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/Distribution.pm#L14
23:09 raiph m: my ($auth, $author, $owner, $authority) = (Nil, 'Joe Blow', 'joeb90', 'CPAN'); say $auth // $author // $authority
23:09 camelia rakudo-moar f99bdb: OUTPUT«Joe Blow␤»
23:10 ugexe so why is this a problem? because say i want to do `install "XXX::YYY:auth<github:foo>"`. The author of XXX::YYY does not have the auth field declared, but has author=foo and authority=github. so to find this module on metacpan i need to search for 2 fields, but the way the request will likely be written (:auth<a:b>) you never know if you can split on a colon or not because author/authority use
23:10 ugexe arbitrary data including colons
23:11 raiph bbi15
23:12 ugexe it uses the author field, so maybe the author has "h:f:e"
23:12 ugexe authority=heh:heh
23:13 ugexe all i know is the $auth. the delimiter in s22 is a colon, which clearly doesnt work if they can also be used in author and authority
23:14 lizmat as far as I remember, there can be multiple authors (human names)
23:14 ugexe so i get :auth<Joe Blow>. is this the author? or the authority?
23:14 lizmat the authority is a key that indicates who or what is responsible for the module
23:15 lizmat github:lizmat
23:15 lizmat might be such an authority
23:15 lizmat or cpan:ELIZABETH
23:15 ugexe this is simply relative to splitting the fields to search on metacpan
23:15 ugexe so i *might* have the auth but have to search the authority and author fields
23:16 ugexe if authority and author can have colons, and if auth may also contain no colons, there is no way to determine what the author and authority are
23:16 lizmat I'm not sure what you mean, but then again, I'm very tired and really should go to bed
23:18 lizmat ugexe: S22:205 states "Optional.  A list of (mnemonic) names of people who work / have worked on this
23:18 lizmat distribution.  For informational purposes only."
23:18 ugexe turning :auth<github:XXX> -> query.pl?author=XXX&authority=github, but considering the problem of how Distribution.auth is generated
23:18 lizmat the string "github:lizmat" *IS* the authority
23:18 ugexe right, i agree. but thats not how its implemented right now https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/Distribution.pm#L14
23:19 lizmat then maybe we need to look at that
23:19 ugexe that was my point :)
23:19 lizmat but I'm too zonked out right now to figure out the ramifications
23:19 lizmat I should be back online in about 10 hours from now
23:20 ugexe alright
23:21 lizmat ugexe++ fot persevering  :-)
23:29 raiph ugexe: I'm persuaded that if you have to support splitting a string on a delimiter, and the string is composed of two substrings either of which can also contain the same delimiter, you're screwed. You already knew that, but now lizmat and a rubber duck know too. :)
23:32 jdv79 so you can or can't do what you want now with mc6?
23:32 jdv79 even if in a hacky way
23:32 * jdv79 was eating
23:34 jdv79 its kind of a double edged sword that the es queries are exposed like that
23:34 ugexe you can. just not requests for exact identities like `install XXX::YYY:auth<...>:ver<...>` or `github:xxx:XXX-YYY:*`
23:34 jdv79 too much surface area for my taste but its mc...
23:34 ugexe version will work, but not auth
23:34 jdv79 is it not there?
23:35 jdv79 maybe we need to gen it on index
23:35 ugexe the problem is some distributions use auth, some use author, some use authority
23:35 jdv79 or default it i mean.  same thing.
23:35 jdv79 auth is the first choice right?
23:35 ugexe but a user just wants XXX:auth<xxx:yyy>
23:35 ugexe yeah
23:35 raiph jdv79: I think ugexe is saying we can't make the current spec / code work reliably; explanation above
23:35 jdv79 we can just make that work for mc based on what we get
23:36 ugexe you could, but i think it should be round-tripleable anyway
23:36 jdv79 raiph: yeah but we can paper over it or now:)
23:36 jdv79 yeah.  Distribution.pm should probably change i guess
23:37 ugexe so if i want to grep a bunch of local meta files for :auth<> i dont have to guess which field to use if auth is not actually defined
23:38 jdv79 how come auth isn't a field in s22?
23:38 jdv79 i thought it was
23:39 ugexe https://design.perl6.org/S22.html#auth
23:39 jdv79 that's not a field
23:40 jdv79 oh, this is where p5's provides syntax will do it
23:40 jdv79 we'll wedge it all in there.  forgot about that:
23:40 jdv79 :)
23:40 ugexe the fields are content storage and owner
23:40 jdv79 those aren't META6 fields - just concepts
23:40 jdv79 that info should go in the provides - where each entry is a hash
23:40 jdv79 like p5
23:41 jdv79 right?
23:41 jdv79 i think we've talked about this
23:42 jdv79 i'll munge it as best i can for now with mc.  tomorrow.
23:44 raiph .tell nine I thought you and maybe others might find it fun to chat with htuhola/Cheery: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/445hkw/i_need_inspirationadvice_for_caching_modules/ either at the reddit or maybe here or #perl6
23:44 ugexe yeah. if a request for :auth<whatever is here> always points to the same required field it should work
23:50 jdv79 ugexe: https://github.com/jdv/cpan-api/issues/3
23:51 jdv79 oh look - another lock queue pileup.  woohoo!

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