Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6-toolchain, 2016-09-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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11:38 jdv79 mst: what did you paste me on aug 31st?  it expired when i just tried to look at it.
11:40 jdv79 mst: can we use the real CPAN again now?
11:41 jdv79 ugexe: and is what what prompted the recently cpan/metacpan change in zef? or just my lack of progress:(
11:43 lizmat jdv79: I think you will still need to wait a few days
11:43 lizmat http://shadow.cat/blog/matt-s-trout/the-psixdists-experiment/  # jdv79: in case you haven't seen that
11:44 jdv79 i've been not paying attention for a few weeks so i imagine i've missed alot
11:45 jdv79 lizmat: thanks!
11:45 lizmat jdv79: there's also the https://p6weekly.wordpress.com   :-)
11:45 lizmat which actually has been weekly for most of this year now  :-)
11:46 jdv79 i know.  thanks for that as well:)  just been too busy to even remember to peek.  but i will now.
11:55 jdv79 mst: finally we're moving forward.  nice.
13:09 mst jdv79: note that if you read back through here ugexe was explaining that they think the PSIXDISTS file naming could be better
13:10 mst but I don't think we got as far as a concensus on which 'better' to try next
13:10 ugexe jdv79: the cpan ContentStorage is from https://github.com/ugexe/Perl6-ecosystems, i.e. crawls that PSIXDISTS/Perl6 directory and saves all the META info to a single index (cpan.json). The MetaCPAN stuff still exists (just as --metacpan), except it gets its index from the elastic search server on a per request basis
13:10 * mst mostly kept saying "yes, I'm sure it could, that's why we're doing an experiment here, let's keep playing until we find one we all like"
13:11 ugexe p6c, cpan, and metacpan should all work together just fine though, allowing missing dependencies from one to ecosystem to be pulled from another
13:12 ugexe speaking of, i've one problem with PSIXDISTS currently. the meta file saved in the distributin tar file modifies the `version` field of the meta data
13:12 ugexe this means if a distribution is extracted to some directory you have to already know that it came from cpan - i.e. you have to already know to look for version_from_original_meta
13:13 ugexe the .meta files are fine doing this, because when you fetch those you already know where you are getting them from
13:19 mst that was because PSIXDISTS was forcing dev releases to avoid looking 'official'
13:20 mst in case it accidentally didn't bundle a whole dist or something
13:20 mst I'm not sure if we should drop that yet
13:20 mst (also, things in git don't always bump thier versions etc.)
13:20 ugexe but does it need to be changed in the .tar.gz file itself? cant it just be changed in the .meta file?
13:21 mst eh?
13:21 ugexe only reason it cant be i can think of is due to the file name itself
13:21 mst the .meta file *is* the file from the .tar.gz
13:21 ugexe right, but i dont think the meta file from the .tar.gz should be changed
13:21 mst ...
13:21 mst I don't understand
13:22 mst you want the .meta file to be changed, but you don't want the .meta file to be changed
13:22 mst huh?
13:23 ugexe the .meta file is already changed. its apparently because the .tar.gz meta is changed but the how is irrelevant. im saying the .meta that cpan uses to index off of can be changed to whatever it needs, but the original meta file should not have its contents changed
13:23 mst the .meta that cpan uses to index off IS THE FILE FROM INSIDE THE TARBALL
13:23 nine ugexe: PAUSE extracts the META file from the uploaded archive. There's no way to upload it separately
13:23 mst it is THE SAME FILE
13:24 ugexe ok, but im not arguing its not
13:24 mst ...
13:24 mst you keep saying "can we change the .meta file but not the file in the tarball"
13:24 mst they are the same file
13:24 mst there is no possibility to change one but not the other
13:24 mst the .meta file is just a convenient way of getting at the meta file in the tarball without downloading the whole tarball
13:26 ugexe so the .meta file that is extracted can't be modified. ok
13:26 mst it's extracted server-side
13:26 ugexe yes
13:26 mst so if the .meta file was modified that would indicated an integrity problem in CPAN
13:27 mst and we'd all have a lot of files to checksum
13:28 ugexe but by changing the version string you have a different integrity problem
13:28 ugexe im not saying your problem does not exist. im saying this other problem does exists as well
13:28 mst no
13:29 mst changing the version string is not a filesystem corruption error
13:30 ugexe but the immutable distribution gets mutated. you no longer know if $this copy of some distribution is the same as $that copy
13:30 mst PSIXDISTS is building its own tarballs because all it has as sources is a github repo
13:31 mst there is no mutation. it's building the immutable distribution like that in the first place
13:33 ugexe in relation to a single content storage i guess. but the content storages cant reliable be used to compliment each other then
13:34 nine mst: do I understand this correctly that this version change is only a temporary safety measure?
13:34 mst yes
13:34 mst I'm not sure what the big fucking deal is
13:34 mst it's actually specifically *because* PSIXDISTS isn't yet supposed to look like a 'real' installation source
13:34 mst in case there's some sort of disaster like missing files in the tarballs
13:34 mst that doesn't affect the original reposuitory
13:34 ugexe there is no big deal, i pointed out the current pain point i'm having and you ran with it
13:34 mst ugexe: I mean, you're asking to break CPAN to 'fix' something that isn't a bug
13:35 mst no, I ran with correcting all your misunderstandings
13:35 mst before PSIXDISTS starts shipping non-dev releases
13:35 mst it would help if people in here had *some* idea how cpan and the toolchain stuff works
13:35 ugexe spin it however you want
13:35 mst and clearly you don't yet
13:35 mst ...
13:36 mst trying to fix your ignorance is not 'spin', child.
13:36 lizmat eh...
13:37 mst I haven't had enough coffee for this. back in a bit.
14:09 jdv79 mst: ok, i didn't get to backlogging yet.
14:09 jdv79 ugexe: cool
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15:59 stmuk_ maybe it might be worth adding an explicit warning '"tags" : [ "PSIXDISTS"]' or similar (or support: source PSIXDISTS) to the altered meta?
15:59 mst nice idea, yeah
16:00 mst or x_psixdists: "This is only a test. Do not adjust your aardvark."
16:00 mst or something to make it obvious it's a testing run
16:01 stmuk_ maybe 2 tags  "PSIXDISTS" and "EXPERIMENTAL"
16:03 mst ranguard: wherte's the code for this?
16:03 mst jdv79: ?
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16:42 jdv79 https://github.com/perl6modules
16:42 jdv79 mst: ^
16:42 mst ta
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18:47 ranguard mst: your now an owner of that repo
18:48 mst fuck
18:48 ranguard :)
18:48 mst stmuk_: so, if you can put your notes about meta warnings as an issue please
18:48 mst ugexe: you were proposing alternative file naming. please file an issue for that
18:51 stmuk_ is that repo up to date with the current version munging?
18:51 stmuk_ 8 months old?
18:52 mst it got turned off months ago after the first perl5er tantrums
18:52 mst then nobody could be bothered having the arguments except for me, and I kept forgetting to write the fucking blog post, because I suck
18:52 stmuk_ seems to be
18:53 mst so, yes, it's the current version
18:53 mst the hiatus was supposed to be rather briefer than that
18:54 mst on the upside, most of the attempts to tantrum at me this time around were largely spiked by reply of "ok, go back in time five years and convince Andreas Koenig to exclude perl6 from CPAN; otherwise, please stick to constructive suggestions"
19:00 ranguard mst: as this is all PSIXDISTS's author - dev vs full shouldn't matter? - as people will know that this author should always be SECONDARY to someone releasing their own version?
19:01 mst ranguard: sticking an _ in the version shouldn't make the version numerically different
19:01 mst so I don't see that it matters
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19:01 mst even version.pm finally respects that
19:01 ranguard true dat :)
19:02 mst basically, if it causes a problem, that means there's a bug in the 6chain
19:02 mst in which case, good, let's shake 'em out
19:12 ranguard jdv79: metacpan code base has come a long way
19:12 ranguard v1.metacpan.org and fastapi.metacpan.org/v1 now powered by the 'master' branch of -web and -api, see you in #metacpan if you want more details :)
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20:24 jdv79 ranguard: thank you.  i believe soon i'll update and move forward another inch.
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21:30 Topic for #perl6-toolchain is now Fire is step THREE! | https://github.com/perl6/toolchain-bikeshed | Channel logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-toolchain/today | useful prior art: https://metacpan.org/pod/CPAN::Meta::Spec
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