Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-03-03

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:11 metaperl has quit IRC (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it")
01:17 wolverian hah. nice bug with shift()
01:37 buu_ has joined #perl6
01:50 oylenshpeegul has joined #perl6
02:00 jacleo has joined #perl6
02:01 jacleo has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:01 ingy back
02:04 khisanth_ has joined #perl6
02:05 stevan ingy: do you know if open() and readline() was working?
02:06 ingy stevan: I don't thinkso
02:06 ingy I didn't see any tests or other code using file input
02:07 ingy I need it for my Kwid test harness
02:08 wolverian creating a filehandle seems to work to some extent, but it is always closed
02:08 wolverian that is, I can't hGetLine or hPutStr.
02:08 ingy I want to port IO::All to pugs
02:08 stevan wolverian: I can write to a file, but not read it
02:09 stevan thats enough to do a test though
02:09 stevan I can just eval the read tests
02:10 wolverian stevan: how?
02:10 wolverian oh, > works.
02:10 stevan yeah
02:10 wolverian < is a unknown mode. :)
02:10 stevan yup
02:10 wolverian s/a/an/
02:11 stevan actually from what I can gather form the Haskell, read mode is ""
02:11 stevan so open("file") defaults to read
02:11 wolverian but it doesn't work.
02:11 stevan yeah it doesnt :)
02:11 stevan but broken stuff has not stopped me from writing tests yet :P
02:11 wolverian hehe.
02:12 stevan write will also create the file too
02:28 wolverian it's neat how irrational I can be about programming languages. I just don't feel comfortable coding python, even though I consider it a very good language. (just as good as perl, or ruby, and in many cases better.)
02:31 wolverian also, ruby would be my favourite language if not for the Proc/block separation.
02:34 khisanth_ has quit IRC ("Leaving")
02:37 oylenshpeegul has quit IRC ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
03:14 xern has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
03:14 xern has joined #perl6
03:15 in2 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
03:15 in2 has joined #perl6
03:20 buffer has quit IRC ()
03:26 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("tiuq\")
03:58 buu_ has quit IRC ("Lost terminal")
04:02 mauke has joined #perl6
04:14 stevan r404 and we are up to 926 test
04:14 stevan my goal is 1000+ tests by the end of the week ;-)
04:14 nnunley ;)
04:14 nnunley No problem.
04:15 nnunley 2 days.  80 tests.
04:15 stevan shouldnt be a problem, thats about the average lately anyway
04:17 stevan nice! http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/Source/index.html/pugs/log/
04:17 stevan I only just saw this :P
04:19 nnunley stevan: I realized there was another path towards testing the pretty printing...  We could export a function into pugs that pretty prints an evaled statement.
04:19 nnunley Into a string.
04:19 nnunley And then use 'is' testing.
04:19 stevan nnunley: that would work
04:20 stevan although I was considering learning Haskell to write that test
04:20 stevan but realistically if I can do it in perl, it will get done much quicker
04:20 nnunley stevan: If at least 1 of us learns enough of QuickCheck to start testing the haskell core, then we can ensure some really nice coverage.
04:20 nnunley Preferably 2.
04:21 stevan nnunley: isn't QuickCheck the specification based testing tool?
04:21 nnunley stevan: Exactly.
04:21 stevan tmoertel's LectroTest is based on that
04:22 stevan hmmmmmm
04:22 * nnunley nods.
04:22 nnunley And shapr has a standing offer to help us with groking its usage.
04:22 * stevan looks for that YaHT PDF he downloaded yesterday
04:24 stevan I need file test operators too
04:24 stevan to round out the tests t/op/io.t
04:24 stevan *sigh*
04:25 wolverian does an infix:<foo> declaration work yet? :)
04:25 Steve_p shapr's mentioned he's done qite a bit with QuickCheck
04:25 buu wolverian:
04:25 buu wolverian: I seriously doubt it=]
04:25 nnunley Steve_p: Yeap.  He's got a TDD version of QuickCheck.
04:25 stevan wolverian: doubt it, i was just reading Prim.hs and didnt see anything that looks remotely like it
04:26 wolverian stevan: right. it doesn't seem to work.
04:26 buu infix:<Z> { zip(@_) }
04:26 buu wolverian: What is the full syntax for those declarations anyways?
04:26 wolverian I'd like to infix is()
04:26 * stevan drools at the idea of creating my own infix operators
04:26 * nnunley nods at wolverian.
04:26 abstraction has joined #perl6
04:27 wolverian buu: sub infix:<foo> (...) { ... }
04:27 buu Oh
04:27 nnunley foo is bla because "I said so"
04:27 buu Simple enough.
04:28 buu I thought there already was an infix 'is'
04:28 * nnunley nods
04:28 buu for @x -> $_ is rw { }
04:29 nnunley Actually, it's adverbial.
04:29 nnunley IIRC.
04:29 buu Perl6, why are you so scary
04:29 nnunley sub infix:<foo> is parsed /(.*)foo(.*)/ {...}
04:30 buu !
04:30 buu Oh god
04:30 buu #writing sub languages in perl is bad idea
04:30 stevan uh oh I think buu's head is going to explode again
04:31 * nnunley grins.
04:31 buu Too late =[
04:31 nnunley buu:  And there will be rabbits, too.
04:32 buu nnunley: Oh goody.
04:32 buu Do I get my own rabbit?
04:32 wolverian nnunley: doesn't that need to be a macro?
04:32 wolverian (since it needs to parse the code itself, so it needs to do it at compiletime.)
04:33 wolverian (I think.)
04:33 wolverian buu: heh, I forgot that. :)
04:33 mauke sub infix:<IsNot> is patented {...}
04:47 rafl has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
04:48 rafl has joined #perl6
04:53 rafl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
04:58 rafl has joined #perl6
05:09 tmoertel stevan: did you have questions about QuickCheck?
05:09 stevan tmoertel: no, not yet, still working on Haskell itself
05:30 rafl has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
05:31 stevan nnunley: r405 and up to 969 tests
05:31 stevan :)
05:32 nnunley Slow down, man... Save some for the rest of us. ;)
05:32 nnunley stevan++
05:32 stevan nnunley: no doubt there will be plenty more needed
05:32 stevan we dont even have classes yet
05:32 stevan and forget about reg-exps
05:33 * nnunley nods
05:33 nnunley And rules
05:33 stevan yup
05:33 jacleo has joined #perl6
05:33 jacleo has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
05:34 nnunley I'm guessing that rules might come next... With them and PGE, we very close to bootstrap.
05:35 stevan nice
05:35 stevan although I have to admit, I want to try out the classes more
05:35 jacleo has joined #perl6
05:35 jacleo has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
05:35 * nnunley nods.
05:37 stevan ok,.. off to sleep for me, later all
05:37 * nnunley waves.  "Sleep well."
05:37 tmoertel 'night
05:41 jacleo has joined #perl6
05:42 jacleo has quit IRC (Client Quit)
05:46 jacleo has joined #perl6
05:59 stevan has quit IRC ("Leaving")
05:59 saorge has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:05 b6s has quit IRC ("leaving")
06:14 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
06:16 b6s has joined #perl6
06:18 b6s has quit IRC (Client Quit)
06:18 b6s has joined #perl6
06:29 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
06:57 sorje has joined #perl6
07:06 ingy hola
07:07 ingy autrijus: ping
07:12 buu HALLO
07:13 jacleo has quit IRC ("离开")
07:13 ingy hi buu
07:14 buu Hi ingy! I recruited someone else to make fun of kwid
07:14 ingy what is your deal?
07:15 buu um
07:15 buu 3 queens and a two
07:15 buu I pass
07:15 ingy later
07:34 viirya_ yyyy
07:35 ingy viirya_: do you know haskell?
07:35 Khisanth the syntax looks scary
07:40 viirya_ ingy: a bbit
07:47 viirya_ weridly, making pugs causes very high loading now.
07:47 viirya_ what's wrong
07:49 buu Fine for me
07:50 autrijus_ has joined #perl6
07:50 ingy autrijus: hihi
07:50 autrijus_ greetings lambdacamels
07:50 ingy autrijus_: too
07:50 * autrijus_ @ AOSS "Standards" working group
07:50 ingy I am transcribing YAHT to Kwid
07:51 autrijus_ oooh.
07:51 ingy while waiting for you to show up
07:51 autrijus_ I fixed the open"<" bug; working on open some mor
07:51 autrijus_ e
07:51 ingy I have a simple haskell question
07:51 * autrijus_ sees many new tests committed
07:51 autrijus_ sure?
07:51 ingy you++
07:51 malaire has joined #perl6
07:51 autrijus_ (also, #haskell is a good place to have simple haskell questions answered)
07:51 ingy I have an array of strings
07:52 ingy and I want to listify it
07:52 autrijus_ you mean, a list of strings
07:52 autrijus_ but go ahead
07:52 autrijus_ hmm?
07:52 ingy well I want to use the list where strings are expected
07:53 ingy btw, I am sitting on a very nice patch
07:53 autrijus_ you can use "concat"
07:53 ingy just need this to finish it
07:53 ingy actually it is done
07:53 autrijus_ concat ["1","2","34"] -- "1234"
07:53 ingy no
07:53 autrijus_ write code, not words :)
07:54 ingy I want "1", "2", "3", "4"
07:54 * autrijus_ understands code better than words
07:54 autrijus_ you want to join them with comma?
07:54 ingy ok...
07:54 Khisanth heh just got up to that part in YAHT :)
07:54 ingy hold on
07:55 ingy I am using unlines
07:55 ingy which takes a list of strings
07:55 autrijus_ and join them with "\n"
07:55 autrijus_ that's correct
07:56 ingy let me try something
07:56 viirya_ why new pulled code hard to build?
07:56 viirya_ making high loading, and in slow scramble.
07:57 ingy foo = ["1", "2"]
07:57 ingy unlines [foo, "3", "4"]
07:58 ingy I want foo to list its contents
07:58 ingy because the above is invalid
08:00 viirya_ just unlines $ foo ++ ["3","4"]
08:01 viirya_ guess what you need is that.
08:01 ingy that works
08:02 ingy I tried it without the $
08:02 ingy why is the $ needed?
08:02 viirya_ unlines (foo ++ ["3","4"]) works too.
08:03 ingy oh I see now
08:03 viirya_ unlines don't know what's foo ++ ["3","4"]
08:03 ingy I would think ++ binds tighter
08:04 ingy thanks, it works
08:04 ingy pugs now has -V
08:04 autrijus_ woot
08:04 ingy which comes from the new Config.hs
08:04 autrijus_ no, function application always binds tightest
08:04 autrijus_ can't have any operator that binds tighter than function application in haskell
08:05 clkao autrijus_: yo, come around #svk
08:05 autrijus_ however useful it may be
08:06 ingy cool
08:06 ingy it is a pitiful -V
08:06 ingy but it's a start
08:08 buu ingy: I can parse text, verbatim and .verbatim!
08:08 autrijus_ ooh!
08:08 buu Yeah =/
08:08 buu But I think I finally have a clean design to expand to the rest of kwid.
08:08 ingy buu: cool
08:09 buu yeah
08:09 cls_bsd ok, make nightly build again
08:09 cls_bsd svk up -s ; perl Makefile.PL; make
08:09 autrijus_ cls_bsd: you are holding nightly builds
08:09 autrijus_ ?'
08:09 buu ingy: =header is invalid, right? It has to be: = header; ?
08:10 viirya_ compiling in turtle speed...
08:10 autrijus_ sorry, I'm involved in the conf right now, discussing revisions for the PO format
08:11 ingy buu: correct
08:11 ingy (and documented)
08:11 buu Yeah yea.
08:11 buu You were closer.
08:11 ingy you should carefully read perlkwid at least once
08:12 buu I did.
08:12 ingy maybe twice :p
08:12 buu Well yeah
08:13 theorbtwo has joined #perl6
08:13 buu I keep re-reading secitons
08:13 buu But while I'm asking you questions, should: =foo; be an error or just plain text?
08:14 ingy plain text
08:14 cls_bsd sudo pkg_delete /var/db/pkg/bsdpan-Perl6-Pugs-6.0.9/ ; sudo make install clean
08:14 cls_bsd hmm
08:14 cls_bsd always doing this
08:14 * cls_bsd considering about make pugs in ports even when pugs is still alpha
08:16 viirya_ give up compilation
08:17 buu ingy: Is there any particular reason you made *foo*,*bar*,*baz not bold?
08:18 ingy it is too problematic imo
08:18 buu Well, I can see stuff like foo* bar* baz;
08:18 ingy *foo*, *bar*, *baz* is bold
08:18 buu Good point.
08:19 ingy and you can always {*foo*},{*bar*},{*baz*}
08:19 buu Well yes
08:19 viirya_ has quit IRC ("leaving")
08:20 buu ingy: line 190 "If you start ith bullets or numbers, stick with them, as formatters use the first "=item" type to decide how to format the list"
08:20 buu Should that be there?
08:20 theorbtwo Question: What is $foo{`clear`} ?
08:21 theorbtwo I'd insert a "may".
08:21 ingy buu: I'll fix that
08:21 buu theorbtwo: Er, kwid doesn't have =item tags =]
08:21 theorbtwo Oh.  Right.
08:22 buu ingy: And inside a .list region, is there any difference between - and * thingies?
08:22 ingy yes
08:23 ingy - foo()
08:23 ingy blah blah
08:23 ingy it is just like the diff between
08:23 ingy =item foo()
08:23 ingy and
08:24 ingy =item *
08:24 Coke_ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:24 buu Er, sorry, I'm not following
08:24 buu oh
08:24 buu "- for things that look nothing like bullets or numbers"
08:24 ingy :)
08:24 buu I see.
08:24 ingy pod has 3 list types
08:24 autrijus_ ingy: ooh http://xliff-tools.freedesktop.org/wiki/Projects/XliffPoTools
08:25 buu So if I was rendering - foo; as html
08:25 autrijus_ ingy: you may or may not like that, but it looks sensible
08:25 buu Would I use <li>, despite the bullet?
08:25 ingy bulleted, numbered and worded
08:25 ingy buu: html has nothing to do with parsing
08:25 buu ingy: Right.
08:25 buu I was just curious
08:27 ingy buu: you can use whatever you want
08:27 buu heh
08:27 ingy you can have multiple html formatters
08:27 buu Well yeah
08:28 ingy look at what various pod2html formatters do
08:30 theorbtwo I'd use li, certianly.  If you really want a certian sort of bullet, use CSS or the type= parameter.
08:30 * buu shrugs
08:30 buu Just an idle curiosity.
08:31 ingy autrijus_: Config stuff checked in
08:31 ingy you should take a look
08:31 theorbtwo Semantic markup is the most important sort, IMnsHO; use CSS if your semantic markup doesn't make the browser display what you want.
08:32 autrijus_ ok, updating
08:32 ingy Next step is to rework the installation of modules into the perl6 paths
08:32 autrijus_ woot.
08:32 autrijus_ mmm bin/
08:33 autrijus_ can I move it to script/ ?
08:33 ingy I did some clever heuristics to make perl6 module directories
08:33 autrijus_ to agree with makemaker convention
08:33 buu theorbtwo: I need some way to use kwid as xml =[
08:33 autrijus_ and to avoid clashing with the haskell/eclipse conventino of putting executables produced to bin/
08:33 ingy um
08:33 ingy it's not an installed script
08:34 ingy it's part of the build process
08:34 autrijus_ then util/
08:34 ingy sure
08:34 autrijus_ is a better idea
08:34 autrijus_ please do so if you can :)
08:34 ingy ok
08:34 * autrijus_ is entangled is weird ISO stuff
08:37 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
08:37 autrijus_ hi nothingmuch!
08:37 autrijus_ nothingmuch++ # donor
08:37 nothingmuch =)
08:37 autrijus_ nothingmuch++ # paypal'ing me for the cause
08:37 autrijus_ nothingmuch: I've synced darcs repo
08:37 nothingmuch autrijus_:  grazie
08:38 nothingmuch say
08:38 nothingmuch yesterday i tried my first hours or so with pugs and stuff
08:38 theorbtwo Allo, nothingmuch!
08:38 autrijus_ cool.
08:38 nothingmuch hola, orb!
08:38 nothingmuch stevan said I should try testing the open op
08:38 autrijus_ the fatal error in eval"open()" is fixed
08:38 autrijus_ will commit soon
08:38 nothingmuch so i did
08:38 ingy autrijus_: bin->util done
08:39 nothingmuch but i didn't get far at all
08:39 autrijus_ ingy: danke
08:39 nothingmuch i'd like to get a sort of handle on what is available, language wise
08:40 autrijus_ nothingmuch: the bottom of Prim.hs
08:40 ingy night all...
08:40 autrijus_ nothingmuch: and grep for todo_ in t/
08:40 nothingmuch for example, my $handle = eval { open "non_existing_file" }; didn't work well for me
08:40 autrijus_ should give a pretty good idea
08:40 autrijus_ there is no eval {}
08:40 nothingmuch right
08:40 autrijus_ yet
08:40 autrijus_ there's only eval ""
08:40 autrijus_ because in p6 it's try{} now.
08:40 nothingmuch but it "worked", in that it didn't complain much
08:40 autrijus_ gone was the punning
08:40 nothingmuch i tried try first
08:40 nothingmuch but that didn't work at all
08:40 autrijus_ yeah, and try{} is not there :)
08:40 autrijus_ you want it?
08:40 autrijus_ I can code it up :)
08:40 nothingmuch so buu suggest eval {}, and it gave the impression that it was working
08:41 nothingmuch i'll make deal
08:41 nothingmuch if you give me try and catch, with throwable stuff
08:41 nothingmuch i'll give you tests
08:41 nothingmuch ;-)
08:42 autrijus_ uh... the norm here is the other way around :)
08:42 autrijus_ tests first etc
08:42 nothingmuch anywho, i shouldn't get carried away
08:42 nothingmuch test & code simultaneously
08:42 autrijus_ but sure, considering your generosity, I can try to get try working
08:42 nothingmuch i'll do it this afternoon
08:42 nothingmuch well, no, bass lesson. This evening
08:42 autrijus_ cool!
08:42 nothingmuch don't rush it
08:42 buu nothingmuch: I have no idea what's actually working.
08:42 nothingmuch it will take me long
08:42 buu I was just randomly guessing.
08:42 nothingmuch spreading disinformation, huh?
08:43 nothingmuch anywho, i just dropped in to give buu a link (http://www.findinglisp.com/blog/2005/03/darcs-and-arch-revisited.html)
08:43 nothingmuch so now i have to go back to real work
08:43 wilx has joined #perl6
08:44 nothingmuch ciao!
08:44 autrijus_ Can't locate Spiffy.pm in @INC (@INC contains: C:/perl/lib C:/perl/site/lib .) a
08:44 wilx I just updated pugs.
08:44 wilx Chasing modules from: Main.hs
08:44 wilx Main.hs:
08:44 wilx    Can't find module `Config'
08:44 autrijus_ ingy: thou shalt not pollute the tree
08:44 nothingmuch has left
08:44 wilx Oh, now I get it.
08:44 wilx Geez, do I really need to configure?
08:44 wilx :/
08:44 ingy ?
08:44 ingy wilx: rerun perl Makefile.PL
08:45 ingy autrijus_: ?
08:45 autrijus_ ingy: nvm, fixed
08:45 wilx Yeah, but that would mean installing Win32 Perl :/
08:45 wilx Oh well...
08:45 ingy ?
08:45 wilx Never mind.
08:45 autrijus_ and you did not escape stuff correctly
08:45 autrijus_ also fixing
08:45 ingy ?
08:46 ingy explain all this
08:47 ingy sorry about the Spiffy thing
08:47 ingy did you fix that?>
08:47 autrijus_ yeah
08:47 autrijus_ I also fixed escapgin
08:47 ingy what escaping?
08:47 autrijus_ see r410
08:47 autrijus_ $value =~ s{\\}{\\\\}g;
08:49 ingy nice, thanks
08:50 ingy how do single quotes work in haskell?
08:50 ingy are they for single chars?
08:51 autrijus_ yup, just like a certain C language
08:51 autrijus_ but haskell has no interpolation
08:51 ingy I C
08:51 TardisX has joined #perl6
08:51 autrijus_ so just escaping \\ and \n is enough
08:51 autrijus_ and I truse Config.hs will have no \n
08:51 TardisX has left "Leaving"
08:51 Cale has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
08:51 ingy nope
08:57 Coke_ has joined #perl6
09:15 autrijus_ has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0+/20050219]")
09:24 ingy finished YAHT intro -> Kwid
09:24 ingy ok zzzzzzz for real &
09:24 buu 75 tests
09:25 buu Matches inline listy items.
09:29 thiesen has joined #perl6
09:29 beth has joined #perl6
09:29 beth enlighten me, buu
09:29 buu Pugs is the new religion.
09:30 buu svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk
09:30 beth http://web.mit.edu/dyezone/www/images/Bolton%20Remodel/Tired%20Pugs.JPG  ?
09:30 buu I doubt it, but I can't see that link
09:30 buu svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/docs/01Overview.html
09:30 beth showing me where to get it is not the same as saying what it is!
09:30 buu ^
09:30 beth I am SO not enlightened
09:30 beth ok
09:30 buu Read!
09:32 * beth re4dx0rz
09:33 beth damn you buu, I'm going to have to look at this now
09:33 beth didn't you know I'm already busy and stuff?!
09:44 buu hahaha
09:44 buu Yo're welcome.
09:47 theorbtwo beth, autrijus has cleared out many of his paying customers to work on this.  It's kind of addictive.
09:47 theorbtwo Even I'm getting into it.
09:48 buu hrm
09:48 buu I think this is the first time I've seen you on irc.
09:48 buu Well, today and all.
09:50 theorbtwo I tend to lurk on here more then I talk.
09:52 buu I noticed
09:52 buu I see you a lot on the chatter box though
09:52 buu But this is the first time I've really spoken to you
09:52 buu If we can all this speaking
09:54 theorbtwo Heh.
10:13 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:14 pjcj Do your lips move as you type?
10:14 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
10:15 Odin- has joined #perl6
10:16 theorbtwo Rarely.
10:17 theorbtwo I also often don't get jokes over IRC/AIM/etc that "work" because the punchline sounds like something else.
10:19 hlafarge has joined #perl6
10:28 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:42 metaperl has joined #perl6
10:42 perldude has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:49 Odin- has joined #perl6
10:53 _metaperl has joined #perl6
10:58 perldude has joined #perl6
11:09 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
11:10 metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:11 _metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:11 metaperl has joined #perl6
11:16 metaperl does anyone understand the arguments to the value constructor ApplyArg?
11:16 metaperl in src/Junc.hs
11:16 rafl has joined #perl6
11:20 tea has joined #perl6
11:51 iblechbot has joined #perl6
12:18 sorje has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:18 sorje has joined #perl6
12:22 jacleo has joined #perl6
12:29 jacleo has left "离开"
12:42 theorbtwo has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
12:48 theorbtwo has joined #perl6
12:49 theorbtwo has left
12:51 theorbtwo has joined #perl6
12:56 theorbtwo Hm, hat doesn't like pugs, and it looks like ghc's inbuilt profiling stuff isn't as detailed as I want.
12:57 cls_bsd ok, time to translate synopsis
13:02 autrijus_ has joined #perl6
13:02 autrijus_ metaperl: you were looking for me?
13:03 metaperl well, what is the collapse field of ApplyArg used for?
13:03 metaperl data ApplyArg = ApplyArg
13:03 metaperl    { argName       :: String
13:03 metaperl    , argValue      :: Val
13:03 metaperl    , argCollapsed  :: Bool
13:03 metaperl    }
13:03 metaperl    deriving (Show, Eq, Ord)
13:04 metaperl in Junc.hs
13:04 cls_bsd oh, will pugs become perl6? or just a aim to archive?
13:05 autrijus_ argCollapsed controls whether that arg avoids junctive autothreading
13:05 metaperl autrijus, that was my question?
13:05 autrijus_ if argCollapsed is true, it means it's not a junction, or it was a junction used in a nonautothreading context (typically Bool)
13:06 autrijus_ cls_bsd: it is not my place to answer that question :)
13:06 autrijus_ if the C-based team came forward with a working compiler before Pugs does, then that will become perl6
13:06 autrijus_ if however, by the time we completed the bootstrap, we are the only team around
13:06 autrijus_ then there is the possibility that pugs will be the perl 6.
13:07 metaperl and which synopsis covers junctions?
13:07 autrijus_ S09?
13:07 metaperl yes it does, thanks
13:08 autrijus_ :)
13:09 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
13:10 theorbtwo Allo, Joshua.
13:13 Limbic_Region morning James
13:14 Limbic_Region guess it is early afternoon over there
13:14 theorbtwo Aye; 2.
13:17 cls_bsd hmmm
13:17 cls_bsd so there exists an perl6 contest :p
13:24 autrijus_ not really a contest :)
13:24 autrijus_ a context, maybe, not a contest
13:25 cls_bsd good point
13:28 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
13:40 autrijus_ pugs ported to GHC 6.4.
13:41 autrijus_ mmm much faster code.
13:41 autrijus_ (but ghc 6.4 had not been really released yet.)
13:45 Limbic_Region buu - you about yet?  Ready and willing to help.
13:45 Limbic_Region evening autrijus_
13:46 autrijus_ hi Limbic_Region
13:52 autrijus_ mm BOF finished
14:07 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
14:09 autrijus_ has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0+/20050219]")
14:10 webmind has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:13 webmind has joined #perl6
14:22 rafl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
14:22 rafl has joined #perl6
14:27 rafl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
14:27 rafl has joined #perl6
14:30 autrijus scw: thanks a lot on implementing pick()
14:30 autrijus I rescinded dump() though; in perl6, dump() is known as perl()
14:30 autrijus and works on all data types
14:30 theorbtwo Nifty!
14:31 theorbtwo Does it produce p6 code, or p5 code?
14:31 rgs ub perl5, dump() is known as CORE::dump()
14:31 rgs s/^ub/in/
14:32 autrijus it produces p6 code.
14:32 autrijus rgs: uh. the context is Data::Dumper::Dump ;:)
14:33 rafl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
14:37 rafl has joined #perl6
14:42 rafl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
14:42 rafl has joined #perl6
14:43 metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:47 Coke_ hey, autrijus.
14:48 rafl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
14:48 rafl has joined #perl6
14:54 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
14:55 Limbic_Region grrr - I hate it when this client flakes as I don't know it has
14:56 Limbic_Region buu - you around?
15:06 Juerd 15:34 < rgs> ub perl5, dump() is known as CORE::dump()
15:06 Juerd Which I think has no place in P6
15:07 integral serialisable continuations otoh...
15:08 autrijus yeah, serialisable continuation is just a fancy term for dump/undump ;)
15:08 Juerd ehh :)
15:09 Juerd I hope the dumps will be a bit fancier than core dumps :)
15:09 autrijus it will be core dumps... it's not jthe C core ;)
15:09 theorbtwo If dump works on all data types, then $?CURRENT_CONTINUATION must be one of those data types.
15:09 integral hmm, it'd be very neat for post-mortem debugging
15:09 Juerd theorbtwo: Isn't that just $?CONTINUATION?
15:09 theorbtwo Quite possibly.
15:09 Juerd As with $?SUB, which isn't $?CURRENT_SUB (unless I have not been paying attention well enough)
15:10 * Juerd expects continuation to be abbreviated as cont, as subroutine is sub
15:10 theorbtwo I think it was supposed to have a long name so people weren't tempted to use it friviously.
15:10 Juerd Why not use it much?
15:11 autrijus uh. &?CALLER_CONTINUATION makes sense
15:11 autrijus &?CURRENT_CONTINUATION makes less sense.
15:11 Juerd autrijus: Why not? Serialize it, store it, exit()
15:11 autrijus which dynamic scope is "current"?
15:11 autrijus 4 + &?CURRENT_CONTINUATION + 10;
15:12 autrijus basically continuations only makes sense on dynamic lscope boundaries
15:12 autrijus s/lscope/scope/
15:12 Juerd Oh
15:12 integral it's a bit like a return instruction you can save a copy of to call in another scope
15:14 autrijus yeah. it's just \&return;
15:14 autrijus except more magical
15:26 nnunley Hrm.  Problems with the ext/Kwid tests.  The harness is attempting to run the tests with perl5, rather than perl6
15:34 autrijus yeah.
15:34 autrijus weird, HARNESS_PERL should be set.
15:37 malaire where can I read about &?CURRENT_CONTINUATION ? synopsis, etc..?
15:38 PerlJam malaire: It's a pugism
15:38 autrijus malaire: escape continuation support is I think mentioned by larry informally
15:39 autrijus but not part of synopses
15:39 malaire ok
15:39 autrijus &?CALLER_CONTINUATION is my interpretation on that
15:39 autrijus but it's a pugism, as perl said
15:39 autrijus PerlJam, even.
15:40 malaire so, what is it?
15:40 autrijus it is a function that, when invoked, returns on behalf of your caller.
15:41 autrijus you can also pass that function around and, when anywhere, returns on behalf of the original caller.
15:45 edgewalker has joined #perl6
15:51 autrijus nnunley: Pretty for Value types must be eval-roundtrippable
15:51 autrijus because that is what ".perl" uses
15:51 autrijus I've fixed it
15:51 autrijus r418
15:55 malaire has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0/20041107]")
16:01 nnunley autrijus:  Didn't realize there was a fixpoint contract there. :)
16:01 autrijus feel free to add it as a comment
16:01 autrijus sorry; I should've write it down myself
16:01 autrijus but journal up; I need to sleep now :)
16:02 clkao autrijus: take a look at svk/win32 before sleep?
16:03 clkao autrijus: or put the instructions on wiki and i can ask matthewd to do that
16:23 ingy hola
16:23 Steve_p bonjour
16:23 ingy are there any tests for junctions
16:23 nnunley ingy: One in 03operators.t that I know about.  And the borken sendmoremoney.t
16:35 ingy yow!
16:36 ingy my $osnames = any( 'darwin' | 'linux');
16:36 ingy is($?OSNAME, $osnames, "Test \$?OSNAME == $?OSNAME");
16:36 ingy runs 2 test!!
16:36 ingy that is freaky
16:36 ingy surreal
16:36 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:36 Steve_p heh
16:36 ingy I'm on darwin
16:36 ingy ones test passes, one fails
16:37 ingy This works fine though:
16:37 ingy my $osnames = any( 'darwin' | 'linux');
16:37 ingy ok($?OSNAME eq $osnames, "Test \$?OSNAME == $?OSNAME");
16:38 nnunley ingy:  Unless you force a binary collapse in the type signature, it will run both branches.
16:38 nnunley Err... boolean.
16:38 Odin- has joined #perl6
16:38 integral welcome to the evil world of auto threading.   junctions thread as early as possible
16:38 ingy nnunley: yes, it appears so. but it still blows my mind
16:39 ingy integral: interesting
16:39 nnunley Test::ok used to run each of the junctive branches before I changed its signature from $cond (implicit Any) to Boolean $cond
16:39 integral ingy: yep.  personally I support the other side ;-)
16:40 ingy the cool thing is that the code actually ran and the test harness was fine with the output etc
16:40 nnunley I really, really want junctive narrowing.  But that's because I'd like to use it for non-deterministic solving.
16:40 theorbtwo Junctive narrowing?
16:40 ingy I mean... if they are threads, there could have been interspersed output, no?
16:40 nnunley theorbtwo: Chaining conditions such that I've narrowed a large junction into a much narrower set of states.
16:41 theorbtwo Oh, throw away the false ones, keep the true ones?
16:41 nnunley Right.
16:42 ingy anyway, I got my cute test using junctions working :)
16:42 nnunley ingy++
16:42 Limbic_Region ingy - I had volunteered to help buu with his kwid parser last night with work commencing today - haven't seen him - do you know where his work in progress is?
16:42 ingy and pugs now has $?OSNAME
16:42 ingy Limbic_Region: no
16:43 Limbic_Region ok - to be honest it didn't seem like a fun thing to do anyway
16:43 jaap has joined #perl6
16:43 ingy hehe
16:43 ingy Limbic_Region: kwid parsing or working with buu? ;)
16:43 Limbic_Region little of both
16:43 ingy :)
16:43 Limbic_Region buu and I don't always see eye to eye
16:44 ingy aye and aye
16:44 Limbic_Region but he is writing a custom parser and not going with a grammar/lexer/parser approach
16:44 PerlJam Limbic_Region: Why don't you track down the bug in examples/hanoi.p6 for me :-)
16:44 ingy Limbic_Region: that seems sad
16:44 PerlJam er, the bug is in pugs, the exposition is examples/hanoi.p6
16:44 integral Limbic_Region: would you have used yapp?
16:45 Limbic_Region after having read through the kwid definition - likely
16:45 Limbic_Region that's easy to say without getting your hands dirty though
16:45 jaap hi; I'm having some trouble compiling parrot; specifically, it complains "blib/include/unicode/ucnv.h" is missing, and I do indeed not see anything called blib in the source tree
16:45 Limbic_Region once your knee deep in mud with shrapnel overhead - you do what works even if it means sucking mud
16:46 integral jaap: you'd probably get an answer out of perl6-internals@perl.org if you asked there
16:47 jaap integral: thanks.  i s'pose i'll also try the tarball, maybe the CVS happens to be in a non-working state
16:47 abstraction jaap, use latest cvs
16:47 Limbic_Region PerlJam - if there is something I can do in p5 without needed to know/learn Haskell/p6 - let me know
16:48 jaap abstraction: that's I've been doing, got it about 20 minutes ago
16:48 Coke_ hurm? what steps did you go through to compile parrot, and what's your OS?
16:49 Coke_ (anything in "blib" should be generated, IIRC)
16:49 jaap Linux stein 2.6.8-1-686 #1 Thu Nov 25 04:34:30 UTC 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
16:49 jaap get cvs; then "perl Configure.pl"; then "make"
16:49 Coke_ how old is your cvs distro?
16:49 PerlJam Limbic_Region: somehow I think you're in the wrong place if you don't want to know/learn haskell/perl6  ;-)
16:50 Limbic_Region jaap - my recommendation would be to get ICU directly and build that before attempting Parrot
16:50 Limbic_Region Parrot is now mostly smart enough to detect a system ICU and use that
16:50 jaap coke_: updated to the latest debian/testing a few hours ago; claims to be cvs 1.12.9
16:50 Coke_ I thought blib was a perl thing, not an ICU thing, lr.
16:50 jaap o wait
16:50 jaap that's obviously not what you're asking
16:50 Limbic_Region PerlJam - didn't say I didn't want to learn - just not offering up my time during paid work hours to do it
16:50 Coke_ (just make sure if you did an update, you do a -dP)
16:53 Limbic_Region Coke_ blib from a Parrot sense is a Parrot thing is it not?  That's just where Parrot puts things before linking IIRC - and ICU is one of those things
16:53 Limbic_Region of course, I haven't worked on Parrot since late November
16:54 pjcj has anyone? </troll>
16:54 abstraction what does ICU stand for?
16:54 jaap Limbic_region: i did apt-get icu, it installed fine, i ran configure.pl again, as well as cvs update, it doesnt complain, still get same error on build
16:54 jaap something with unicode, i take it
16:54 integral jaap: wouldn't you want something like icu-dev?
16:55 Limbic_Region jaap - Dan's unicode patch is probably in by now - so I am likely talking out my @$$
16:55 theorbtwo International Components for Unicode
16:55 abstraction his string pathc is in
16:55 theorbtwo http://www-306.ibm.com/software/globalization/icu/index.jsp
16:55 abstraction that sounds painful
16:56 Limbic_Region http://icu.sourceforge.net/
16:56 abstraction more pain
16:56 theorbtwo It is, but it's mostly "somebody needs to do it" sort of things.
16:56 integral haven't read anything about the icu dep being dropped though
16:56 abstraction better now than later...
16:56 Limbic_Region well, the plan was not to drop it from CVS but to make it completely optional when building
16:56 jaap integral: i do, indeed; it's called icu-data; i installed it; doesnt help; thanks though
16:57 theorbtwo icu-data includes the shared library?
16:57 Limbic_Region Dan originally said Parrot will ship with the ability to do Unicode - period.  The installer can choose not to if they want
16:57 jaap it seems like it wants a header file that has to be within the parrot source tree, though, since it says make: *** No rule to make target `blib/include/unicode/ucnv.h', needed by `src/string_primitives.o'.  Stop.
16:57 jaap [weel@stein] /home/weel
16:57 Limbic_Region He has been known to change his mind - and I haven't followed the list since late November either
16:57 rafl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
16:58 rafl has joined #perl6
16:58 nnunley Limbic_Region:  Did they decide to do their own unicode implementation?  Last time I bothered paying attention, that seemed to be the jist of the conversation.
16:59 theorbtwo I think the idea is to avoid unicode more often, and consider it just another encoding.
16:59 * nnunley nods.
17:00 Limbic_Region nnunley - my understanding was that Dan's big patch was to allow a standard interface for unicode libraries so ANY unicode library that played nice with the interface could be used
17:00 nnunley Good.
17:00 Limbic_Region that ICU was "it" for now, but that we should consider our own
17:00 Limbic_Region and that until an alternative was available, Parrot would ship with ICU source
17:00 theorbtwo ...so if your input is big5, and your output is shift-jis, you may never go through Unicode in the middle.
17:00 Limbic_Region though using it would be optional
17:01 Limbic_Region and that's where I leave the story
17:01 theorbtwo Of course, Larry has said that Unicode is a hard requirement for p6, so a parrot compiled without unicode support may well not be able to run p6, which rather spoils the point.
17:02 jaap the tarball seems to somehow magically not have the same problem, so I think I'll stop bugging you guys ;-)
17:02 Limbic_Region not really theorbtwo
17:02 integral just ignore Larry ;-)
17:02 Limbic_Region if I want the VM for a reason other than p6 where Unicode isn't needed, why should I be forced to use it
17:02 Limbic_Region my point being that I think it is a "good thing" that Parrot and P6 are divorced
17:03 PerlJam indeed
17:03 cognominal has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
17:03 theorbtwo I agree.
17:04 PerlJam theorbtwo: Were you saying that parrot without unicode spoils the point of parrot-as-perl6-VM ?
17:04 cognominal has joined #perl6
17:04 theorbtwo Yes.
17:04 rafl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
17:04 PerlJam but it's perfectly fine for parrot-as-XXX-vm where XXX is almost anything else :)
17:04 rafl has joined #perl6
17:04 theorbtwo Ja.
17:06 theorbtwo But while parrot is designed to be a general purpose VM, or at least general purpose for highly dynamic languages, the only large project really considering using it is p6.
17:07 jaap I think there's quite some interested from  more academic circles for doing e.g. Scheme in Parrot
17:07 theorbtwo That'd be very nifty.
17:07 Limbic_Region and nothing about what I described as my interpretation of Dan's plan for Parrot/Unicode spoils that
17:07 Limbic_Region the hooks are there - let the installer choose to use/not use them
17:08 Limbic_Region IIRC, nothingmuch was looking at doing Scheme in Parrot as an academic exercise
17:08 PerlJam theorbtwo: So you don't think that efforts to BASIC, PHP, Python, etc. with parrot are important or valid or something?
17:08 PerlJam s/to/to use/
17:08 integral hmm, I thought the python one could be important if it actually ran faster
17:08 jaap well, the thing about Scheme is that it has been implemented about 30 times by now; it is not at all like the major scripting languages that are dominated by 1 or two implementations
17:09 jaap but I'm off to breakfast now; cheers all
17:09 jaap has quit IRC ("has breakfast...")
17:09 rafl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
17:10 rafl has joined #perl6
17:10 theorbtwo I think that while using it for PHP, Python, etc, have been much discussed, they don't look purticularly like they're going to happen.  BASIC has happened, but only a very old dialect.
17:11 Limbic_Region theorbtwo I think Python will happen if Dan returns to overule Leo - or someone else takes over - there's a pretty smart Python guy working that problem though I can't remember the handle ATM
17:12 theorbtwo Oh!  That's great news.
17:12 Steve_p Sam Ruby?
17:12 theorbtwo "Dan returns"?  He left?
17:12 Limbic_Region theorbtwo - Dan has/had been out of the loop for some time
17:12 Limbic_Region one of the reasons why I stopped following Parrot
17:12 Khisanth Limbic_Region: I always thought we were more likely to get a python on parrot than perl6 on parrot :)
17:12 Limbic_Region Sam Ruby sounds right Steve_p - but it has been several months since I followed the list
17:13 theorbtwo That's horrible news.
17:13 PerlJam yes, it's sam ruby who's working on the snake eating bird.
17:13 Limbic_Region he (Dan) re-emerged for a short time but his rl job sucked him back in
17:13 Steve_p He has his fingers in *many* pies though
17:13 theorbtwo Sam Ruby was working on it last I payed attention.  That was quite a while ago, though.
17:14 PerlJam And rubys is *actively* working on it though.  (at least the last time I looked at #parrot (last week))
17:14 theorbtwo (It always confused me -- Ruby/Python mental discouninuity.)
17:14 saorge has joined #perl6
17:14 Limbic_Region my point being that he was making lots of headway and the stumbling blocks were issues he couldn't get resolved between just him and Leo
17:15 Limbic_Region so I don't think Python on Parrot is a pipe-dream
17:15 theorbtwo Great!
17:15 rafl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
17:15 rafl has joined #perl6
17:16 Limbic_Region I should be able to dive in head deep in the 3 ps in June (we will have closed/moved into the new house)
17:16 Limbic_Region where the 3 ps are p6, pugs, parrot
17:17 PerlJam Check http://groups-beta.google.com/group/perl.perl6.internals .  There have been messages about python on parrot even today.
17:17 PerlJam Limbic_Region: excellent
17:19 PerlJam Limbic_Region: I'm treating pugs as the perl6 reference implementation and possible bootstrap.  I talked with Pm yesterday and it appears that he's working more on PGE, so it's a race to see who implements the better bootstrap first :-)
17:19 Limbic_Region for now, I am working a full-time job, part-time job, in the process of buying a house, closely following his wife's paperwork to become permanent resident/citizen, and also making things happen so she can drive
17:20 Steve_p Yes, I thought the majority of Python had been implemented already
17:20 * PerlJam DCCs some luck and congratulations and general warm fuzzies to Limbic_Region
17:20 Limbic_Region PerlJam - forgetting long term benefits, pugs has some very real tangible RIGHT-NOW benefits
17:20 Limbic_Region it is getting the community excited about p6, it is getting other communities interested
17:20 PerlJam Limbic_Region: indeed.  I can't tell you the thrill I get from writing and *running* actual perl6 code :)
17:21 Limbic_Region it is helping iron out the synopsises where things aren't exactly clear
17:21 Limbic_Region it is letting people start seeing real-world working p6 code
17:21 Limbic_Region if it ends up not being the p6 bootstrap of choice - I think no one would be overly disapointed
17:22 theorbtwo I think pugs can be not just a reference implementation or a bootstrap, but the real thing.
17:22 PerlJam I really think that pugs will make a better bootstrap too.  PGE is focused on the "rules" syntax, pugs is focused on basically everything else.  As soon as you add rules to pugs, you've got a perl6 suitable for implementing perl6.
17:22 PerlJam theorbtwo: I don't think so.
17:22 Limbic_Region to me it doesn't matter - honestly - when is friendly competition not a good thing?
17:22 PerlJam yep!
17:23 PerlJam theorbtwo: ghc is not as widely ported as it would need to be for pugs to be the real thing.
17:23 theorbtwo I think the best path is to do a straight port of pugs from haskell to p6.
17:24 theorbtwo ...but perhaps I simply don't understand Hasell well enough to know why this is impossible.
17:24 Steve_p Hmmm...Haskell on Parrot?
17:24 PerlJam theorbtwo: it's not impossible, just highly unlikely  :)
17:25 integral easier to port STG to parrot?
17:25 theorbtwo STG?
17:25 integral spineless tagless G-machine, GHC's virtual machine
17:25 theorbtwo Ah.
17:25 PerlJam integral: now *there's* an idea that has some potential
17:26 stevan has joined #perl6
17:26 * Limbic_Region notes the time and realizes he hasn't eaten yet
17:26 * Limbic_Region wanders off
17:26 integral possibly not hard either.   Just write a PMC for the G-machine closure, and GHC already does most of the rest
17:27 Steve_p Exactly.  Let the G-Machine generate the bytecode or imcc.  Very intoxicating :)
17:27 theorbtwo Virtual virtual machines...
17:28 Steve_p heh
17:28 theorbtwo Now run the whole thing inside of qemu, running inside of vmware!
17:32 justatheory has joined #perl6
17:50 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:53 Odin-LAP has joined #perl6
17:58 Limbic_Region Virtual virtual machines - reminicent of "The 13th Floor"
17:58 Limbic_Region http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0139809/
17:58 nnunley The fix-point virtual machine...
17:59 nnunley Turtles all the way down.
18:07 Odin- has joined #perl6
18:07 Limbic_Region perlbot karma for autrijus
18:07 perlbot Karma for autrijus: 1
18:08 Limbic_Region heh
18:08 rjbs perlbot: autrijus++
18:11 Limbic_Region no need for perlbot
18:11 Limbic_Region just autrijus   works fine
18:11 Limbic_Region except my client eats plus symbols
18:12 pjcj autrijus += 2pi
18:13 theorbtwo perlbot, journal is http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal/
18:13 perlbot added journal to the database
18:13 theorbtwo perlbot, journal?
18:13 perlbot http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal/
18:15 theorbtwo When did we get a perlbot?
18:16 Limbic_Region the other day
18:16 Limbic_Region I asked why purl wasn't here
18:16 Limbic_Region the response was that it wasn't easy to get purl to join another network
18:17 Limbic_Region buu (in #perl) asked Chris62vw to invite perlbot here
18:17 Limbic_Region perlbot forget journal
18:17 perlbot removed journal from the database
18:18 Limbic_Region perlbot learn autrijus journal as http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal/
18:18 perlbot added autrijus journal to the database
18:18 jdv79 has joined #perl6
18:18 Limbic_Region hmmm - should that have been possesive?
18:21 jdv79 maybe the reason i haven't been here yet is because parrot has my attention more than p6 lately
18:22 nnunley perlbot learn pugs revisions log as http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/Source/index.html/pugs/log/
18:22 perlbot added pugs revisions log to the database
18:23 Limbic_Region for those who don't know, perlbot was written by Chris62vw whose database spans all channels it is connected to (which currently also includes #perl)
18:24 Limbic_Region perlbot help
18:24 perlbot Syntax: (fact) :: tell (who) about (what) :: (who) > (what) :: learn (what) as (info) :: relearn (fact) as (info) :: facts (search term) :: shorten (url) :: shorten it :: search (module) :: docs (module) :: perldoc -f (function) :: math :: fortune :: flip :: host (type) (record) :: rot13 :: roll (die) :: tempconv (temp) :: scramble (text) :: 8ball :: slap :: diss :: what time is it :: highest karma  :: lowest karma
18:25 Limbic_Region perlbot .ca
18:25 perlbot .ca is Canada
18:26 Limbic_Region 8ball will pugs beat pge as the p6 bootstrapper?
18:26 Limbic_Region perlbot 8ball will pugs beat pge as the p6 bootstrapper?
18:26 perlbot Magic 8ball says: Yes
18:26 theorbtwo roll 10d3.14159
18:27 Limbic_Region you need to say perlbot
18:27 theorbtwo perlbot roll 10d3.14159
18:27 Limbic_Region when all else fails - ask Chris62vw in #perl
18:27 Khisanth or
18:28 Khisanth perlbot: source
18:28 perlbot check out my insides: http://chrisangell.com/incoming/chrisbot/v3
18:28 Khisanth :P
18:31 thiesen has quit IRC ("Konversation terminated!")
18:31 jdv79 haha, how did buu get into that article:  http://www.perl.com/cs/user/print/a/908
18:33 theorbtwo Hm, I don't like the lack of prefix on chromatic's lines.
18:33 jdv79 it is written by him...
18:33 jdv79 his name's at the top
18:34 nnunley Hrm.  So, is grammar ~= module ?  Other than stating that it's creating a grammatical module?
18:35 jdv79 "but thing quickly went out of control" - best quote so far
18:37 Khisanth jdv79: because the whole interview thing was done in here
18:38 theorbtwo There was some side stuff that chromatic clipped.
18:38 theorbtwo But it's a useful question.
18:38 jdv79 oh wow, i missed a good time!
18:39 theorbtwo I only read it via the archive.
18:47 Limbic_Region Apparently, M$ does Perl - http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/scripts/perl/default.mspx
18:52 Limbic_Region is there a way to browse pugs test suite on-line?
18:56 theorbtwo I wonder... is it possible to make the parsec bit automagically create examples?
18:56 stevan Limbic_Region: http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/t/
18:56 Limbic_Region thanks stevan
18:56 stevan Limbic_Region: your welcome
18:57 rjbs Limbic_Region: haha. hungarian notation in Perl
18:58 Limbic_Region there have been some interesting problems in p5 at the Monastery recently - I was thinking about writing p6 solutions and seeing if Pugs was up to the challenge yet
18:58 jdv79 like what?
18:58 stevan Limbic_Region: remember that Pugs does not have classes yet, or multi-dimensional arrays (they all flatten)
18:59 stevan AFAIK, pairs are the old nested data structure possible at the moment
18:59 Limbic_Region no need for classes, but complex data structures would be a "good thing"
18:59 stevan Limbic_Region: you can always write an example and eventually it will run :)
19:00 stevan hanoi.p6 does not run yet
19:00 Limbic_Region that's the point stevan
19:00 stevan Limbic_Region: go for it them
19:00 stevan s/them/then/
19:05 hlafarge has quit IRC ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
19:19 perlbot has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
19:19 perlbot has joined #perl6
19:41 metaperl_ can anyone get this junction example to work? http://nomorepasting.com/paste.php?pasteID=33301
19:43 PerlJam Perl5's ?: operator is now spelled  ?? ::
19:44 PerlJam And I think you need the parens on the call to any
19:44 metaperl_ PerlJam, thanks
19:44 PerlJam oh, and you'll need to my @color, otherwise pugs will complain
19:47 metaperl_ PerlJam, the working example is committed as rev 422
19:47 metaperl_ in pugs/examples/junctions/1.p6
19:48 PerlJam cool.
19:48 PerlJam More "real world" examples of junctions are needed however.
19:49 metaperl_ yes, I am moving slowly but surely
19:49 metaperl_ I want to present at our perl mongers meeting on junctions next wednesday
19:49 metaperl_ how do you read from STDIN in pugs?
19:50 metaperl_ my $x = <STDIN>; # assigns the string STDIN to $x
19:50 justatheory has quit IRC ()
19:53 Schwern has joined #perl6
19:54 integral =$*IN
19:54 theorbtwo Is that working now?
19:54 integral somewhat
19:55 integral pugs -e'say =$*IN' behaves strangely
19:55 stevan reading and writing of files is working
19:55 stevan t/op/io.t
19:56 theorbtwo Great!
19:56 stevan actually I take that back, the readline support is not all there yet
19:57 stevan but creating, writing and appending files is
19:59 stevan metaperl_: I usually check Prim.hs to see what is working and what is not
20:00 stevan metaperl_: line 169 is the unary '=' and autrijus has a big block commented out there
20:00 metaperl_ oh ok
20:02 metaperl_ should this work?
20:02 metaperl_ my $x = $*IN;
20:02 metaperl_
20:02 metaperl_ print $x;
20:02 metaperl_ the print is failing not the reading from STDIN
20:03 stevan try say() instead of print()
20:03 metaperl_ my $x = $*IN;
20:03 metaperl_
20:03 metaperl_ say $x;
20:03 metaperl_ fails
20:03 metaperl_ Fail: <stdin>: hPutStr: illegal operation (handle is not open for writing)
20:03 PerlJam As it should.
20:03 stevan yeah I am getting the same thing
20:03 metaperl_ perhaps I need to specify where to write it
20:04 Coke_ it looks like you're trying to print something to STDIN...
20:04 PerlJam you need to use unary = to actually read from stdin
20:04 metaperl_ unary =
20:04 metaperl_ meaning what?
20:04 PerlJam my $x = =<$*IN>;
20:04 Coke_ (wow, that's ugly =-)
20:04 metaperl_ holy god jesus christ
20:04 theorbtwo Umm, both = and <...>?
20:04 metaperl_ i know, for such a common thing
20:04 PerlJam well, I'm not sure about the <>
20:04 theorbtwo I thought it was my $x = =$*IN
20:05 theorbtwo ...which also looks like shut.
20:05 PerlJam I know that =<> is the replacement for magic <> as in perl5
20:05 theorbtwo shit.
20:05 stevan I think <...> stuff is not valid perl6
20:05 sorje Oh bummer, hyper ops aren't implemented yet
20:05 PerlJam (this week)
20:05 theorbtwo Er, s/s..t/junk/.
20:05 stevan although I can't remember where I saw that
20:05 Khisanth EWW I hope that isn't the only way, the double = looks rather ugly :p
20:06 PerlJam anyway $*IN.readline or somesuch should work too (once we get objects in pugs)
20:06 theorbtwo That looks /much/ better.
20:06 PerlJam Khisanth: you should know by now that there is no such thing as "the only way" in perl :)
20:06 theorbtwo Though .rl would be nice.
20:06 stevan PerlJam: that should work pre-object actually
20:06 Limbic_Region well, once objects...
20:06 PerlJam stevan: Are you sure?
20:06 Khisanth PerlJam: true for most things but ...
20:06 stevan PerlJam: the filehandle works as the invocant
20:06 Limbic_Region yeah - you can do fh.method once that's implmented it will look cleaner
20:07 stevan $*IN.readline == readline($*IN)
20:07 stevan AFAIK that is
20:07 PerlJam stevan: yeah, yeah, you're right.  But is it implemented?
20:07 stevan t/op/io.t shows it
20:07 stevan PerlJam: readline is currently not complete
20:08 stevan PerlJam: but $fh.print works
20:09 stevan actually readline works for files
20:09 * stevan wrote t/op/io.t late last night and his memory is failing
20:10 stevan http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/t/op/io.t
20:12 ingy Larry is so hardcore: http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.language/19468
20:12 metaperl_ how do you chomp your input read from $*IN
20:15 theorbtwo You get in chomped, unless you ask for it unchomped, IIRC.
20:16 Steve_p ingu, so you got your answer ;)
20:16 Limbic_Region and when you print you automatically get "\n" added on unless you ask for it not too, IIRC
20:16 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("MODEM - Monumentally Overpriced Data Eating Machine [Time wasted online: 6hrs 48mins 16secs]")
20:18 ingy Steve_p: no :(
20:18 ingy there is no support for objects at all yet, right?
20:18 ingy and pugs is a practical project
20:19 metaperl_ theorbtwo, can anyone get revision 423? I am typing in something but it apparently is not chomped
20:19 ingy so I'll just have to wing it to accomplish my evil goals
20:19 metaperl_ pugs/examples/junctions/2.p6
20:19 theorbtwo Er, no, L~R, that's the difference between say and print.  (Of course, it's not an accident that say is shorter...)
20:22 Limbic_Region theorbtwo - depends on how you parse what I said, I didn't say "use print", I said print - meaning what I was thinking was correct but I wasn't specific enough in what I typed
20:24 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
20:27 Limbic_Region nothinmuch - correct me if I am wrong, but weren't you considered Scheme on Parrot a while back as an academic exercise?
20:27 nothingmuch no
20:27 nothingmuch i don't even know scheme, sadly
20:27 nothingmuch i'm learning lisp from the sicp lectures on line
20:27 nothingmuch they are wonderful
20:27 stevan Limbic_Region: I think Peirs had something to do with that
20:27 nothingmuch very fast paced
20:28 nothingmuch my other limitation is that i don't know parrot
20:28 qmole heh
20:28 nothingmuch and my third one is that i have time for neither =)
20:28 nothingmuch so,
20:28 nothingmuch L~R->correct
20:28 Limbic_Region hmmm - I know it was a monk, but don't remember which one - fairly certain the monk I am thinking of wasn't Piers
20:28 nothingmuch stevan - remember the patch from yesterday?
20:29 stevan nothingmuch: the Test::Mockobject
20:29 nothingmuch yup
20:29 nothingmuch i glued Test::Deep to it
20:29 stevan ??
20:29 nothingmuch for argument verification
20:29 stevan Test::Deep rules :)
20:29 nothingmuch (Test::MockObject also records arguments, so now you can declare them as part of the script and verify that)
20:29 nothingmuch it so does
20:29 nothingmuch especially for this
20:30 nothingmuch superset of is 100% correct
20:30 nothingmuch anywho
20:31 nothingmuch i can't decide on a reasonable way to make it optional, but unambiguous
20:31 nothingmuch right now, if you remember, steps in the script are like [ set_true => "foo" ]
20:32 stevan nothingmuch: the only way I can see to make it optional is to implement the validation yourself
20:32 nothingmuch i mean interface wise
20:32 stevan nothingmuch: or leave it out all together
20:32 nothingmuch i did all the logic
20:32 nothingmuch right now if the last element of that array is an array ref, or a bless object whose class =~ /^Test::Deep
20:33 nothingmuch then it is assumed it's an argument list
20:33 nothingmuch at that point it tries to require Test::Deep and dies violently if you don't have it
20:33 nothingmuch but if you don't want to validate args, it's not required
20:33 stevan nothingmuch: wait I am not sure I am understanding you
20:33 stevan nothingmuch: can I see the updated patch?
20:34 nothingmuch my problem is what do i do when someone says something like [ set_always => "blah", [ ] ]; when they want blah to return an array ref?
20:34 nothingmuch sure
20:34 nothingmuch unified diff? or should I darcs record?
20:34 stevan unified is fine, I speak diff :)
20:36 nothingmuch ok, the patch is on http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-MockObject
20:36 nothingmuch and it depends on the script patch being applied too
20:37 nothingmuch the test is very self explanatory
20:37 nothingmuch it's the last part of the diff
20:39 stevan nothingmuch: what did chromatic think about adding Test::Deep ?
20:39 metaperl has joined #perl6
20:40 nothingmuch i don't know, i just got a reply from him about the original patch
20:40 nothingmuch he is considering whether it's better placed in a subclass or not. With Test::Deep and argument validation, i reckon it is
20:40 nothingmuch even though it's pretty tightly coupled to the internals
20:41 nothingmuch without it, I think it's a compact enough change, but it's up to him to decide
20:41 stevan nothingmuch: I think he might have a point actually
20:41 stevan I did something similar to this in DBD::Mock, i called it DBD::Mock::Sessions
20:41 stevan but DBD::Mock is highly aware of DBD::Mock::Session objects, so they are tightly coupled
20:42 nothingmuch i considered it at first
20:43 nothingmuch but i didn't want to release something this small without checking if he wants to integrate it beforehand
20:43 nothingmuch i'll be happy either way
20:43 nothingmuch (although happier if i'm not the maintainer ;-)
20:43 stevan nothingmuch: I actually think you could expand this more :)
20:43 nothingmuch how?
20:43 stevan Test::MockObject::Scripts
20:43 nothingmuch i tend to be spooked out of advanced features
20:44 nothingmuch the optional argument validation param is already starting to feel not right for me
20:44 nothingmuch even though it's a feature I need, the interface needs work
20:44 stevan nothingmuch: the first thought that comes to mind is reading a script from a config file
20:44 nothingmuch complicating it further is not something i think i want to do
20:44 nothingmuch ah, in that case
20:44 nothingmuch just store YAML in your __DATA__ and unserialize that
20:44 nothingmuch a script is an array of array refs, is all
20:44 stevan nothingmuch: yeah something like that
20:45 stevan nothingmuch: I kind of see it as a way to automate Test::MockObject
20:48 stevan r424 just commited, we now have 1003 tests in the suite :P
20:50 nothingmuch sorry, back
20:51 stevan ingy: you still around??
20:52 stevan I have a kwid question
20:55 * Limbic_Region wonders how buu got on with his kwid parser
20:55 jdv79 he still didn't finish his search.cpan replacement
20:59 Limbic_Region he asked me to help him last night
20:59 Limbic_Region I offered to help today
20:59 Limbic_Region he hasn't pinged me
21:00 Limbic_Region to be honest, I don't think a custom parser is the way to go given the grammar definition - but he asked
21:01 * stevan kinda likes POD actually
21:02 * stevan will give KWID a try though
21:02 jdv79 yeah, what's wrong with POD?
21:02 stevan jdv79: ask ingy :)
21:02 Limbic_Region blame Ingy
21:02 nothingmuch has left
21:04 wolverian POD is not semantic enough.
21:05 ingy hola
21:05 jdv79 i don't think it was meant to be
21:05 ingy nothing is wrong with POD
21:05 ingy Kwid is just much nicer
21:05 stevan ingy: whats the status of the kwid parser/converter stuff?
21:06 stevan I was going to document Test.pm, and I figured it best to use kwid (if that is the official PUGS format that is)
21:06 ingy I'm still working on the systems to install it
21:06 ingy stevan: go ahead
21:06 ingy it is easy to convert between the two
21:07 ingy or do it in POD
21:07 jdv79 lossy though i guess
21:07 stevan ingy: didnt you and autrijus hack a kwid -> HTML converter?
21:07 ingy not lossy
21:07 sorje has quit IRC ("leaving")
21:07 sorje has joined #perl6
21:07 ingy stevan: yes, but it doesn't really work yet ;)
21:08 ingy patience perl6 programmer
21:08 stevan ingy: ok, I will just wing it then :)
21:09 stevan ingy: http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/Source/index.html/pugs/revision/?rev=426
21:10 ingy stevan: cool. I think you will really enjoy writing Kwid. I do.
21:11 ingy did you see docs/yaht.kwid?
21:11 ingy jdv79: read lib/Perl6/lib/perlkwid.kwid
21:12 Odin-LAP has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:12 ingy it is a transcription of perlpod.pod
21:12 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:12 ingy as such it really pushes the language
21:12 Limbic_Region . o O ( with little white lies )
21:12 ingy ;)
21:13 nturner|work has joined #perl6
21:14 Limbic_Region I was going to ask buu if he had many examples to test against but he hasn't shown up - in the off chance I still agree to help him - where should I look for examples ingy?
21:15 Odin- has joined #perl6
21:17 ingy Limbic_Region: grep the pugs source for kwid files
21:17 Odin-LAP has joined #perl6
21:17 metaperl the YAHT is writtein kwid
21:17 metaperl pugs/docs
21:17 * metaperl returns to work
21:17 metaperl (which means leaving home, where he is now)
21:18 * mugwump puts on a cheesy grin
21:18 mugwump "Try my new documentation formatting system.  I think you might like it!"
21:18 * mugwump drinks a glass of cranberry juice
21:27 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("tiuq\")
21:37 stevan ingy: r428 has the Test.pm kwid doc in it, can you tell me if it looks okay?
21:39 ingy sure
21:39 jdv79 is he modeling this after his POD parser?
21:40 ingy you mean me?
21:40 ingy :P
21:40 jdv79 buu i meant
21:40 ingy ah
21:40 jdv79 he wrote a POD parser a few weeks ago
21:40 stevan is he writing it in perl5?
21:41 jdv79 the POD one was
21:42 ingy created docs/src/Junc.kwid for metaperl
21:42 ingy trivial
21:42 ingy but so much nicer to read
21:43 metaperl_ I dont want to work in kwid
21:43 buu heh
21:43 ingy why not?
21:43 jdv79 yeah
21:43 jdv79 is your Kwid parser gona be like the POD one you did?
21:45 ingy stevan: looks ok
21:45 metaperl_ jdv79, i dont follow your comments about the POD parser... what POD parser are you talking about?
21:45 ingy stevan: the authors section will word wrap though
21:46 ingy gotta run&
21:46 metaperl_ ingy, if autrijus says all docs in kwid, then so be it
21:46 metaperl_ but we need one format, be it POD, kwid or whatever and then we all use it
21:46 jdv79 buu wrote a POD parser a montth or 2 ago.  now i hear he is gonna buld a kwid parser.  i'm wondering if they are going to be similar.
21:46 metaperl_ I like head1 head2 head3 better than = == ===
21:47 metaperl_ autrijus is not around today is he? where is he physically these days?
21:47 stevan metaperl: autrijus is sleeping now (i assume)
21:47 buu I return!
21:47 metaperl_ is he in Taiwan?
21:48 metaperl_ well anyway, I think we need to have a collaborative decision on kwid vs. pod
21:48 buu jdv79: Technically speaking, I didn't really write a parser, I just wrote a wrapper around Pod::Parser
21:48 metaperl_ with autrijus' vote being authoritiative
21:48 jdv79 buu, punk2
21:49 buu =[
21:49 metaperl_ i'm gong to post the RFC on pugs docs to perl6.compiler... ok?
21:49 obra autrijus may still be in the PRC for a conference
21:50 clkao yes he is.
21:50 metaperl_ oh, that's why he was in a hotel, etc.
21:50 metaperl_ I see
21:50 clkao there's going to be a mini perl lunch today i belive
21:53 stevan metaperl: I agree that POD is not quite enough, but I am not sure of kwid either
21:54 mugwump this is because deep down, something about wikiformat makes your gut wrench :)
21:55 stevan my problem with wiki format is that every wiki seems to do it slightly differntly
21:55 stevan much like every POD parser
21:55 buu stevan: Kwid obviously needs some kind of formatter guidelines.
21:55 mugwump I think that POD should look a bit like Perl
21:55 buu As for Kwid, how would you specify an item / definition list so it would be very easy to parse?
21:55 buu As in, perlfunc, or perlvar
21:56 metaperl_ what is wrong with POD?
21:56 metaperl_ we all know it, for one
21:56 buu Ask ingy.
21:56 buu I kind of like kwid better, just for formatting text.
21:56 stevan metaperl: it does have it's limits, and depending upon which parser you are using it can be very unforgiving
21:57 mugwump POD fills a gap fine, in that it is deliberately simple and so easy to make work with editors, parse, etc
21:57 mugwump kwid looks like a refinement of POD based on experience on Wikis
21:57 theorbtwo Mmm... I don't much care for kwikd, and like POD much more.
21:57 metaperl_ what did the perl6 community decide would be the doc format for perl6?
21:58 edgewalker I don't particularly like kwid
21:58 metaperl_ SGML? :)
21:58 theorbtwo I think POD just needs a bit of a cleanup with L<> semantics.
21:58 theorbtwo But I also think it's my bedtime.
21:58 edgewalker what theorbtwo says
21:58 stevan metaperl: I dont think the perl6 community has decided
21:58 buu metaperl_: The perl community rarely decides these things, if you haven't noticed
21:58 edgewalker also, POD needs some cleanup with regards to list markup
21:58 metaperl_ POD needs a CPAN tag or something like that (like you were saying about L<>)
21:58 mugwump the perl community is not a sentient being
21:58 stevan metaperl: I think autrijus  and ingy decided
21:58 buu metaperl_: What would cpan do?
21:58 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
21:59 mugwump it is a collective, so you can't talk about what "it" decides :)
21:59 buu stevan: I think ingy made it up and convinced autrijus =]
21:59 stevan buu: I think you are probably right
21:59 theorbtwo I think the perl community should just steal PM's bracket-link code.
21:59 buu theorbtwo: Dude, did you read kwid?
21:59 edgewalker I think the final decision for Perl6-the-Real-Thing is going to be with Larry and crew
21:59 stevan I think we should just all use XML :P
21:59 buu edgewalker: I doubt it. I suspect the final decision will be determined by how many use what.
21:59 mugwump p6l would be the place to discuss I guess
21:59 buu stevan: I was seriously considering it =[
21:59 stevan buu: if only to drive ingy more crazy right?
22:00 Coke_ pod is mentioned in one of the apocolypses that it will be treated in APOC 23 or some such, which is no where in site.
22:00 metaperl_ I think we should Microsoft Word
22:00 buu stevan: =]
22:00 stevan Wordstar !!!!!
22:00 metaperl_ that's my final offer
22:00 edgewalker LyX
22:00 metaperl_ Printshop Pro
22:00 buu brainfuck.
22:00 stevan and write the parser in BASIC
22:00 Coke_ I find kwid seems to be easier than POD for what I use POD for.
22:00 sorje has quit IRC ("leaving")
22:00 buu Coke_: That's because you don't have to parse it =[
22:01 stevan I just wrote a kwid doc for the Test.pm module,
22:01 stevan its not bad, my hands wanted to type POD though
22:01 theorbtwo Everybody should just learn HTML already.  ;)
22:01 theorbtwo Really, bedtime.
22:01 buu theorbtwo: Well, yeah.
22:01 rgs pod with kwid extensions ?
22:01 stevan Javadoc??
22:01 rgs python doc strings.
22:02 stevan I actually think POD could be re-worked and be fine
22:03 rgs iirc that was The Plan
22:03 stevan just clean up the ugly corners
22:03 stevan I once tried to mix XML and POD, but that got really ugly
22:04 metaperl_ i have emailed autrijus and asked for a final decision
22:04 edgewalker well, what we really should be using is markdown, but that's another story
22:04 stevan metaperl: this might really be an issue for p6l
22:04 buu edgewalker: Mark down?
22:04 edgewalker buu: google it
22:04 stevan and then again, there is nothing to say PUGS can't support POD and KWID (it currently does)
22:05 buu edgewalker: I'm playing war3 =[
22:05 metaperl_ I have used Text::Template to inline Perl code without manually pasting it into pod files.. Most of Parse::RecDescent::FAQ is done by text-template loading things in from outside files
22:06 edgewalker buu: then google it when you're done with war3. it's basically wiki "markup" on steroids, heavily influenced by the formatting of email, and reads as well in plaintext form as it does as HTML
22:06 buu Sounds like kwid.
22:07 Coke_ (don't have to parse it) ... so? It should be easy for the person WRITING it, not the person parsing it. =-)
22:07 buu Coke_: Well, yeah, I'm bitter.
22:07 edgewalker buu: except it's about 10x better than kwid
22:08 edgewalker or any other wiki markup for that matter
22:11 edgewalker anyway, the only complaints I have with POD: lists with many short items are awkward; L<> semantics are underspecified; and fixed width text can either have formatting *or* be prewrapped, but not both
22:11 edgewalker other than those I like it better than most wiki markup; incl kwid
22:13 edgewalker markdown is an order of magnitude more readable and writable, but markdown is also complex to parse
22:13 edgewalker of course if Perl6 ships with a really good module for manipulating whatever documentation format is settled on, then the parsing complexity issue is moot
22:15 stevan has quit IRC ("Leaving")
22:17 Schwern has quit IRC ("Leaving")
22:21 metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:23 justatheory has joined #perl6
22:23 metaperl_ markdown, textile. there are a few out there
22:28 edgewalker textile is really nothing but a sparser way to write HTML
22:28 * Limbic_Region kicks buu hard
22:29 buu limbic!
22:29 Limbic_Region I asked since 8AM EST for you/about you to help you with your kwid parser
22:29 edgewalker markdown is written with HTML in mind as well, but the markdown markup itself isn't HTML specific
22:29 Limbic_Region and you were no where around
22:29 Nei has quit IRC (Client Quit)
22:32 metaperl_ in revision 430, does anyone have time to look at pugs/examples/junctions/3.p6? it isn't working as I expected
22:36 buu Limbic_Region: I was asleep =./
22:36 buu Limbic_Region: Sorry.
22:45 Limbic_Region sleep is a "good thing"
22:45 buu heh
22:45 buu I have odd hours.
22:45 Limbic_Region in any acct, having read more of the spec - I think a proper grammar/lexer/parser is more appropriate
22:45 Limbic_Region but - if you still want to roll your own - I am willing to help
22:45 iblechbot has quit IRC (Client Quit)
22:46 buu Limbic_Region: Well, I kind of agree about the proper grammar thing, but I have my reservatios about it. Anyways, What I have so far:
22:47 edgewalk1r has joined #perl6
22:47 jdv79 yaccin' it?
22:48 Limbic_Region I was thinking yapp
22:48 Limbic_Region but yeah
22:48 buu http://erxz.com/pugdoc.zip
22:48 buu Note t/
22:48 jdv79 YAPP!
22:49 buu heh
22:49 jdv79 i've only heard of yacc
22:49 Limbic_Region is that link semi-static or should I forward myself a copy to work as well?
22:49 jdv79 isn't that your server buu?
22:49 buu It'll be there for a tleast a month
22:49 buu yes
22:49 buu until I forget what it is
22:49 buu and delete it
22:50 jdv79 someone has buu.com
22:50 jdv79 ugh
22:50 buu YES
22:50 Limbic_Region jdv79 - see Parse::Yapp
22:50 buu they've fucking had it for like 7 years
22:50 buu and they did fuck all with it
22:50 jdv79 i hate that
22:50 buu It used to be this like one page about a health club
22:50 jdv79 took me 3 years and almost $500 to get my lastname domain
22:51 buu =[
22:51 jdv79 PITA
22:51 buu No wait, that was buu.org
22:51 theorbtwo Somebody bought mastros.com about 3 hours before my father finally decided to buy it.
22:51 buu buu.com is being scalped
22:51 buu They've been wanting like 3 grand for it for 5 years now
22:51 jdv79 hahaha
22:51 jdv79 i got off cheap
22:51 theorbtwo So he's mastros.biz, and printed off all sorts of busniess cards, stationary, etc.
22:51 buu heh
22:52 buu Reasonable
22:52 theorbtwo ...and of course, mastros.com becomes available again a year later.
22:52 buu Your tale is one of woe and tragedy
22:53 theorbtwo Actually, my tale is one of "eh, whatever".
22:53 buu Limbic_Region: If you really care I can set up a svn server
22:55 Limbic_Region no - just will likely do most of any work I contribute during the day and not in the evenings
22:56 Limbic_Region I can't sleep if I am doing programming of any complexity after 7pm
22:56 buu heh
22:56 jdv79 Parse::Rec... isn't good Limbic_Region?
22:56 buu Maybe I should consider that
22:57 Limbic_Region jdv79 - there isn't anything wrong with P::RD
22:57 Limbic_Region well, other than it is slow
22:57 Limbic_Region but some grammars are more suited for different kinds of parsers
22:58 buu Limbic_Region: The basic structure of Parser.pm should be fairly obvious
22:58 Limbic_Region yeah - it is a lot cleaner then you lead me to believe
22:58 buu Well, I thought about it for a whilke
22:58 buu My next problem is how to deal with .list. regions
22:59 Limbic_Region well, like I said - not going to play with it until tomorrow
23:00 buu Eh, well, ok
23:00 Limbic_Region one thing I would like to do if possible is determine which regex to apply and apply it in only two steps
23:00 jdv79 is it really worth rolling it like that?
23:00 buu Yes!
23:00 Limbic_Region a la dispatch table - instead of for looping over all of them
23:01 justatheory has quit IRC ()
23:01 buu Limbic_Region: Er, how?
23:01 Limbic_Region well - you need to join all those regexes together with capturing parens
23:01 buu hrm
23:01 Limbic_Region and then use whatever is captured as the key
23:01 Limbic_Region but the trouble is it isn't fixed key still
23:01 buu I have to go do an errand, I'll be back in 10.
23:02 * Limbic_Region won't
23:02 Limbic_Region oh - 10 minutes
23:02 Limbic_Region not 10pm
23:04 Limbic_Region The dispatch table is still a possibility but probably shouldn't try and pursue it until more of the grammar is covered since it might not fit in as easily
23:04 edgewalker has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:05 buu Limbic_Region: Yeah. Maybe.
23:06 buu I see what you're getting at, but I'm not sure it's worth it.
23:06 buu Anyways, dropping sister off, we shall discuss in a bit.
23:14 justatheory has joined #perl6
23:16 jdv79 has quit IRC ("Leaving")
23:26 edgewalk1r is now known as edgewalker
23:42 * Limbic_Region notes that he will give buu another 15 minutes before wandering off himself
23:48 Limbic_Region http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=431364
23:48 Limbic_Region for instance
23:49 Limbic_Region grrr - wrong channel - sorry
23:50 theorbtwo has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:59 * Limbic_Region wanders off

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo