Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-03-04

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 jdv79 has joined #perl6
00:06 metaperl has joined #perl6
00:23 Steve_p heh
00:25 crysflame hi
00:26 Steve_p hi
00:28 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
00:31 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Client Quit)
00:34 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
00:46 Limbic_Region has left
00:53 stevan has joined #perl6
00:53 nothingmuch hola
00:53 stevan hey nothingmuch
00:54 * nothingmuch is writing mail and will get around to the try tesrt
00:54 nothingmuch wish me luck
00:54 stevan good luck
01:10 autrijus_ has joined #perl6
01:10 nothingmuch hola autrijus
01:10 * nothingmuch is fidgeting with try-catch
01:11 autrijus_ rehi /\camels
01:11 autrijus_ ooh. fidgeting as in writing tests?
01:12 nothingmuch yup
01:12 autrijus_ nice
01:12 nothingmuch sync darcs?
01:13 nothingmuch (automatiically?)
01:13 nothingmuch ((with a pugs script?))
01:13 autrijus_ will do when I have a tiny bit more bandwidth
01:13 autrijus_ but sure, let me make do for now
01:13 autrijus_ a sec
01:13 autrijus_ I'll make it per-minute
01:14 autrijus_ insetad of per-commit as it is suppsoed to do
01:16 * clkao giggles at autrijus_
01:16 crysflame hi, autrijus
01:16 crysflame are you awake yet?
01:16 autrijus_ in the closed round table session now
01:16 autrijus_ weird political foo going on
01:16 crysflame o, guess not
01:17 autrijus_ nothingmuch: darcs is now automagically synched
01:17 autrijus_ thanks.
01:17 stevan morning autrijus
01:17 nothingmuch woohoo
01:17 autrijus_ hi stevan.
01:17 clkao autrijus_: why can polictical foo go on so early?
01:17 stevan we hit 1000+ tests today :)
01:17 autrijus_ !!!
01:17 autrijus_ stevan++
01:17 autrijus_ stevan++
01:18 stevan it was my goal to hit it before the weekend
01:18 clkao how many of them are failing?
01:18 autrijus_ stevan++
01:18 autrijus_ gawd I feel I've been slacking
01:18 * autrijus_ is looking forward for real bandwidth
01:18 stevan no fails, only todos
01:18 ingy stevan: why amI the copyright holder of Test.pm ?
01:18 ingy :)
01:18 stevan autrijus: we are all just catching up to you
01:18 autrijus_ heh. *blush*
01:18 stevan ingy: cause you were the copyright holder of Kwid.pm which I copied and pasted from
01:18 crysflame autrijus: good interview!
01:19 autrijus_ mm some .fr person writes in to ask whether he can use Pugs to script RS232 protocols
01:19 autrijus_ crysflame: thanks!
01:19 ingy stevan: I'll fix it
01:19 stevan ingy: already did
01:19 stevan r432
01:20 stevan ingy: I am torn on kwid
01:20 stevan my brain kinda likes it, but my fingers want to type POD
01:21 ingy you must have hard working fingers
01:21 stevan the - for list items in particular
01:21 crysflame is there a pod->kwid automunger?
01:21 stevan ingy: they have a mind of their own sometimes
01:21 ingy stevan: I changed that list to *
01:21 stevan ingy: ok
01:22 ingy you use a '-' list when you want the terms to be linkable
01:22 autrijus_ crysflame: Pod::Simple::Kwid should not be hard
01:22 ingy this is true in POD too
01:22 autrijus_ crysflame: but it currently is not there. if you can help, that'd be much appreciated
01:22 stevan ingy: hmmm, ok I will have to adjust the docs tomorrow
01:22 ingy just committed more yaht
01:23 crysflame autrijus: ETA probably +3 weeks on coding again
01:23 crysflame i'm starting to be able to focus on code again, at least :)
01:23 crysflame (and filed an RT ticket!)
01:23 crysflame (on my own module!)
01:23 ingy I am relaxing the kwid list syntax to allow multiline items
01:23 ingy that means .list will be rare
01:24 ingy and '-' is allowed outside .list
01:24 ingy see yaht.kwid for examples
01:24 stevan ingy: ok
01:24 stevan is yaht == Yet Another Haskell Tutorial
01:24 ingy yes
01:25 stevan then i will read it while I look at your kwid :)
01:25 ingy it is a good tutorial but sucks in pdf
01:25 ingy stevan: you can help me write it. it is tedious
01:25 stevan yeah I have it in pdf, my eyes glazed over when I read it though
01:25 stevan ingy: we'll see, i am having fun with the tests right now :)
01:26 autrijus_ ingy: are you not working from pdftotext
01:26 ingy you can't even cut and paste the examples
01:26 autrijus_ or pdftohtml?
01:26 ingy mmmm
01:26 autrijus_ i.e. do you _type_ all that stuff?
01:26 ingy autrijus_: it is fairly manual
01:26 autrijus_ stop hurting your fingers!
01:26 ingy ok!
01:27 autrijus_ :)
01:27 autrijus_ ingy++
01:27 ingy where is a good converter
01:27 autrijus_ http://www.bluem.net/downloads/pdftotext_en/
01:27 autrijus_ http://pdftohtml.sourceforge.net/
01:27 * ingy feels silly now
01:28 stevan not sure if this is the same YAHT, but ... http://www.hyuki.com/haskell/?cat=yaht
01:28 stevan you might be able to cut and paste some of the code examples
01:28 metaperl ideally the haskell source code would not be in the kwid document. it would be separate and runnable. does kwid have an include file command?
01:28 autrijus_ not the same yaht
01:29 stevan autrijus: ah, wasn't sure, I just saw monad and thought maybe :)
01:29 autrijus_ [Example 1|foo.hs] maybe?
01:29 metaperl [cpan://List::Util]
01:30 autrijus_ not sure how to make relative links
01:30 * autrijus_ is reading larry's latest visions on p6l
01:30 autrijus_ about Config
01:30 autrijus_ $?CPU<speed>
01:31 stevan ok, going to grab something to eat, later all
01:31 autrijus_ $?CPU<speed><hz>
01:31 autrijus_ $?CPU<speed><cache><l2>
01:32 Odin-LAP That's true Larry, alright.
01:32 autrijus_ I want some drug larry's on. I think that will improve my brain
01:33 ingy autrijus++
01:33 ingy autrijus_: that reply hurt my brain
01:33 buu autrijus_: Relative links in kwid: [linkname|/link]
01:33 nothingmuch autrijus_: try will need... 1) $! to be implemented (in t/op/die.t i see it isn't), 2) given blocks 3) class is Exception;
01:33 ingy not what I expected at all
01:33 autrijus_ buu: uh no, relative links to files in the same dir
01:33 buu autrijus_: Oh.
01:34 autrijus_ nothingmuch: we can fake class is Exception
01:34 nothingmuch are any of these trivial to implement? (i suspect $! maybe?)
01:34 autrijus_ the other two is trivial. do we have tests for them?
01:34 nothingmuch for given no
01:34 nothingmuch for $! yes
01:34 nothingmuch todo_is in t/op/die.t
01:34 autrijus_ nothingmuch: ok. write one for given and try?
01:34 nothingmuch surely
01:34 nothingmuch how liberal should I be with eval '' for unsupported syntax?
01:34 ingy autrijus_: we don't have any object support yet do we?
01:35 autrijus_ ingy: we have multisubs and faked invocant syntax
01:35 autrijus_ so any sub($foo) can be written as $foo.sub
01:35 autrijus_ other than that, no.
01:35 autrijus_ 6.2 will be all about objects.
01:35 * ingy purrs
01:35 autrijus_ but I want serious bugs like doubleeval fixed in 6.0 first.
01:35 autrijus_ and get I/O really nicely working
01:36 autrijus_ ingy: it doesn't stop you from writing pseudocode or tests, though.
01:36 ingy autrijus_: I want to do an IO::All
01:36 autrijus_ ingy: write one!
01:36 metaperl autrijus, did you get my email about my junction examples?
01:36 ingy I need objects!
01:36 autrijus_ metaperl: no, I'm still parsing Larry
01:37 autrijus_ ingy: write one and objects will come!
01:37 ingy =)
01:38 autrijus_ ooh so those are blue sugar cubes
01:38 * autrijus_ makes a note to buy some in the night market here
01:38 autrijus_ <ingy> Thanks for the mind expanding reply.
01:38 autrijus_ <lwall> You're welcome.  Next time don't eat blue sugar cubes from my frig.  :-)
01:41 autrijus_ rgs++ # fellow S5 affictionado
01:42 autrijus_ mmm ISO Linux standard
01:44 nothingmuch :w
01:44 nothingmuch heh, wrong window =)
01:45 autrijus_ :)
01:49 nothingmuch do we have ?? :: ?
01:49 nothingmuch err, i'll just check
01:49 autrijus_ we do.
01:49 nothingmuch =)
01:49 nothingmuch (as an lvalue?)
01:49 nothingmuch (it's one of my favourite perl features)
01:52 autrijus_ I don't even know that you can do an lvalue :)
01:52 autrijus_ returns Any is rw
01:52 autrijus_ is that an appropriate p6 sig?
01:52 autrijus_ mmm asiaforge.
01:52 nothingmuch (cond ? $var : $other) = "Value";
01:53 nothingmuch i especially like doing it for array/hash assignments
01:53 nothingmuch for "T", "E", 5 -> my $digit {
01:53 autrijus_ oh, seeing how metaperl and ingy are both here
01:53 nothingmuch i get complaints
01:53 nothingmuch is it supposed to work?
01:53 autrijus_ my decree in pod/kwid in the pugs tree is "whatever you like" :)
01:54 metaperl hmmm
01:54 nothingmuch i also tried with ()
01:54 autrijus_ I think ingy should've asked metaperl before checking in the .kwid, just to be polite and avoid conflicts
01:54 autrijus_ but for inlined chunks in .pm and t/* files, both are fine.
01:55 metaperl Ok, so you are getting to the junction code samples I wrote?
01:55 autrijus_ I see kwid as merely an alternate POD notation
01:55 autrijus_ and whomever writes the doc gets to choose the notation :)
01:55 metaperl pugs/examples/junction
01:55 autrijus_ yup
01:55 autrijus_ nice work!
01:55 autrijus_ re autochomp: I think synopses really needs to have them covered.
01:55 nturner|work has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:55 autrijus_ I lose track of autochomping syntax
01:56 autrijus_ meanwhile I'll do a chomp() primitive.
01:56 autrijus_ (sigh)
01:56 autrijus_ nothingmuch: lose the my()
01:56 nothingmuch this is odd
01:56 nothingmuch i tried that too
01:56 autrijus_ it's implicit.
01:57 nothingmuch where can i paste 13 lines of code?
01:57 autrijus_ pugs -e "for (1,2,3) -> $x { say $x }"
01:57 autrijus_ worksforme.
01:57 metaperl www.nomorepasting.com
01:57 autrijus_ losing () too
01:57 Coke_ perlbot, nopaste?
01:57 perlbot Paste your code here and #perl will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/perl
01:57 nothingmuch t/base/for.t passes
01:58 Coke_ perlbot, nopaste is also http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/
01:58 perlbot I already have an entry for nopaste
01:58 Coke_ bah.
01:58 nothingmuch http://sial.org/pbot/7876
01:59 nothingmuch huh? why did it use my lan IP?
01:59 nothingmuch oh well
02:00 nothingmuch has left
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02:01 nothingmuch so?
02:01 autrijus_ reading
02:01 autrijus_ metaperl: the chomp() primitive is in.
02:02 metaperl oh ok.
02:02 autrijus_ try using it as a bandaid for now
02:02 autrijus_ except it's broken.
02:02 autrijus_ a sec.
02:05 tea has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:06 autrijus_ chomp fixed as r434.
02:06 metaperl yes, I just noticed :)
02:06 autrijus_ chop() also implemented.
02:06 metaperl ok resyncing
02:07 autrijus_ mmm reimbursement time
02:07 * autrijus_ is out collecting $$$
02:07 autrijus_ biab
02:07 nothingmuch *cough*
02:11 jdv79 has left "Leaving"
02:15 autrijus__ has joined #perl6
02:15 nothingmuch is a bare block '{ some scope }' valid?
02:15 nothingmuch i can't find (synopsis|exegis|apocalypse) 4 data on this
02:18 CDybedahl has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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02:19 autrijus__ is now known as autrijus_
02:22 nothingmuch occasionally i get parse errors after eval '';
02:22 nothingmuch where the next characer of a token is "unexpected"
02:22 nothingmuch example:
02:23 nothingmuch eval 'given 1 { when 1 { $one = 1 } }';
02:23 nothingmuch todo_ok($one, "truth in given { when ... }");
02:23 nothingmuch t is unexpected
02:23 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
02:23 metaperl autrijus can you run pugs/examples/junctions/3.p6
02:24 metaperl the first if-then should have said nothing'
02:27 autrijus__ has joined #perl6
02:29 metaperl autrijus can you run pugs/examples/junctions/3.p6
02:29 metaperl the first if-then should have said nothing'
02:30 lwhsu has quit IRC ("leaving")
02:31 autrijus_ has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
02:32 autrijus__ is now known as autrijus_
02:32 autrijus_ checking
02:32 autrijus_ gah the XiuShui market has been closed :-/
02:32 clkao autrijus_: got some time for packaging before perl lunch?
02:33 autrijus_ I wonder if I should pack with svn 1.1.0 libs
02:33 autrijus_ because it all worksforme here
02:33 autrijus_ and the only change I've done was updating 1.1.3
02:33 obra why was it closed?
02:34 autrijus_ seeing how ssleay was a problem, I suspect 1.1.3. oh and lunch is tomorrow with perlchina
02:34 autrijus_ obra: copyright infringement crackdown.
02:34 autrijus_ there is a New XiuShui mall being built with 3,000 hidden camera
02:34 autrijus_ so, well.
02:34 clkao autrijus_: no, but the encoding thing wasn't there before
02:34 autrijus_ clkao: if I can only duplicate it :-/
02:34 metaperl autrijus can you run pugs/examples/junctions/3.p6
02:34 metaperl the first if-then should have said nothing'
02:35 clkao autrijus_: try to document the build/package process and i'll try to catch matthewd?
02:35 obra this is the tech market I was at?
02:35 autrijus_ clkao: huh, just extract the svk executable, put the svk tree in site/, and run svk.nsi from win32/
02:36 autrijus_ obra: possibly
02:36 nothingm1ch has joined #perl6
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02:36 autrijus_ the nsi file much be run with makensis
02:36 autrijus_ metaperl: looking
02:37 nothingm1ch does anybody have any insight about for () -> $topic parse errors?
02:37 autrijus_ nothingm1ch: example?
02:37 nothingm1ch has left
02:38 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
02:38 autrijus_ nothingmuch: example?
02:38 nothingmuch http://sial.org/pbot/7876
02:38 autrijus_ metaperl: evidently a bug. a sce
02:38 autrijus_ sec
02:39 nothingmuch dclone($autrijus)
02:40 crysflame i wish
02:40 metaperl nothingmuch, that tick mark in front of $result looks odd
02:40 metaperl eval '$result
02:40 metaperl oh sorry
02:40 crysflame as soon as we figure out how to capture a quantum state without observing it
02:40 metaperl it is closed 4-5 lines later
02:40 crysflame and then figure a way to observe without collapsing
02:40 crysflame you can clone autrijus
02:41 ingy hola
02:42 ingy autrijus_: pdftotext chugged along for a while then finished cleanly. it produced no output and no warnings. Nothing.
02:42 autrijus_ try pdftohtml?
02:42 obra start with the dvi?
02:42 ingy I need text though
02:43 metaperl dvi2tty
02:43 obra ingy, have you talked to the author?
02:43 metaperl ?
02:43 autrijus_ ok, let me do a .txt to me
02:43 autrijus_ s/to me/locally/
02:43 metaperl yes, I was wondering what he felt about all this myself :)
02:44 autrijus_ ingy: yeah, please contact Daume; I'm sure he'd agree because YAHT is freely distributable verbatim
02:44 autrijus_ but you need his consent on kwid being one of verbatim formats
02:45 nothingmuch *sigh*
02:46 autrijus_ ingy:  http://autrijus.org/tmp/tutorial.txt
02:46 autrijus_ enjoy
02:46 ingy thanks
02:47 autrijus_ ingy: minor encoding foobar tho
02:48 autrijus_ you may need to do minor cleanup
02:48 autrijus_ about the ' and "
02:48 ingy I'll write Daume
02:48 autrijus_ fixing
02:48 ingy autrijus_: no worries, I plan to contrast it against the pdf
02:48 nothingmuch crap
02:48 ingy but fixes welcome sure
02:48 nothingmuch todo_ok( unclosed
02:50 autrijus_ ingy: http://autrijus.org/tmp/tutorial-utf8.txt
02:51 metaperl ingy, I am willing to use kwid from this point out
02:51 ingy metaperl++
02:51 ingy metaperl: that's really cool :)
02:51 autrijus_ metaperl++
02:51 autrijus_ http://autrijus.org/tmp/tutorial-utf8-2.txt
02:52 autrijus_ finally got it to work
02:54 nothingmuch this doesn't parse: my $expected = (($digit eq "T") ?? 10 :: 11);
02:54 nothingmuch but my $expected = ($digit eq "T") ?? 10 :: 11; does
02:54 Aankhen`` Ah, that's better.
02:54 nothingmuch does that make sense?
02:54 Aankhen`` Now the quotes aren't messed up.
02:54 autrijus_ ??:: is adhoc.
02:54 autrijus_ not part of a proper term.
02:55 autrijus_ so the failure is expected. not sure how to treat ternary yet
02:55 autrijus_ pm also had no clue :-/
02:55 nothingmuch should i test for a proper '?? ::' handling in an eval somewhere?
02:55 ingy autrijus_: the utf8 still looks messed up
02:55 autrijus_ yes, please!
02:55 ingy I need to run. bbl
02:55 autrijus_ ingy: it looks okay here
02:55 autrijus_ see ya
02:56 nothingmuch err, how would you name such a tesT?
02:56 nothingmuch or does it go in 03operators.t?
02:56 autrijus_ 03 sounds right.
02:57 nothingmuch oh, it's already tested
02:57 nothingmuch todo_is(eval '(($str3 eq $str4) ?? 1 :: 2)', 1, "?? :: in parens");
02:57 nothingmuch =D
02:57 cls_bsd wowo
02:57 metaperl autrijus, should I make a test out of the example I showed you?
02:57 autrijus_ :D
02:57 autrijus_ it pays to grep the test
02:57 nothingmuch i didn't notice it when i last grepped for '??'
02:58 crysflame autrijus: your testing comment from the interview should be topic
02:58 autrijus_ metaperl: yes, definitely
02:58 autrijus_ I'll look into that now
02:58 autrijus_ chained comparisons suck
02:58 * nothingmuch is dyslexic and tends to have these idiotisms
02:58 autrijus_ is the interview on air?
02:58 crysflame i have no idea
02:58 autrijus_ oh it is.
02:58 crysflame it was on the air here
02:58 autrijus_ sure
02:58 autrijus_ what testing comment?
02:59 crysflame where you said "all features are driven by tests"
02:59 crysflame um, url the interview
02:59 nothingmuch should junctions make sense this way: given "foo" { when "bar" | /foo/ { $foo = 1 } } ?
03:00 nothingmuch or should it be a comma?
03:00 nothingmuch ah, exegis is less confusing on the subject
03:00 autrijus_ I have no idea :)
03:00 autrijus_ cool. so what is it?
03:00 nothingmuch appearantly comma
03:00 * autrijus_ admits to have not read all the exegesis
03:00 nothingmuch there's a given in apocalypse 4 that has commas
03:00 autrijus_ or rather, read, but not really read
03:01 autrijus_ okay, comma is it then
03:01 nothingmuch and then in the bottom it said '[ update: replace , with | ]
03:01 autrijus_ uh.
03:01 * autrijus_ screams
03:01 nothingmuch so i didn't know if it was 'junctions do the right thing'
03:01 nothingmuch or 'in this case a junction is more elegant'
03:01 autrijus_ let's see
03:01 nothingmuch the latter case seems more logical
03:01 autrijus_ "when" is using an implicit smart matcher
03:01 autrijus_ as in
03:01 autrijus_ $_ =~ "bar"
03:01 autrijus_ err
03:01 nothingmuch aye
03:01 autrijus_ $_ ~~ "bar"
03:01 autrijus_ if you replcae the RHS with junctions
03:01 autrijus_ then it autothread
03:02 autrijus_ because when gives a boolean context
03:02 autrijus_ it collapses
03:02 crysflame oooh
03:02 autrijus_ so yeah, use junctions
03:02 crysflame ding!
03:02 autrijus_ ding indeed
03:02 nothingmuch is /foo/ done before the junction is built, or after?
03:02 nothingmuch because i would (given perl 5 intuitions), look at it like:
03:02 nothingmuch "bar" | /foo/ => "bar" | true (since /foo/ matches)
03:03 nothingmuch $_ =~ "bar" | bool::true
03:03 nothingmuch that's not quite right
03:03 autrijus_ the /foo/ merely constructs a rule obj.
03:03 nothingmuch goody
03:03 autrijus_ that I'm pretty sure of.
03:04 nothingmuch the lazier you are the more knowlege you have when you actually need to get stuff done
03:04 * nothingmuch likes these properties, they make for better DWIMy behavior
03:04 autrijus_ that is indeed the rakudo.
03:04 autrijus_ the way of camel
03:04 wolverian woohoo, actually figured out the first yaht exercises :)
03:04 autrijus_ wolverian++
03:05 wolverian haskell++ # I like weird.
03:05 nothingmuch ok
03:05 nothingmuch last issue
03:06 nothingmuch i have several test cases in t/base/given.t
03:06 nothingmuch i want to declare lexicals per cas
03:06 nothingmuch e
03:06 nothingmuch in perl 5 i would just wrap them in a bare block
03:06 nothingmuch and not worry about it
03:06 nothingmuch but pugs is not eating this
03:06 nothingmuch is it documented somewhere?
03:06 nothingmuch (perl ops and constructs are hard to grep for =(
03:06 autrijus_ a bare block should be fine
03:06 autrijus_ { my $x; ... }
03:07 autrijus_ is it not working?
03:07 nothingmuch {\nmy ...  yields "unexpected m"
03:07 nothingmuch the same code works with the curly lines commented out
03:08 nothingmuch ah!
03:08 nothingmuch {};
03:08 autrijus_ ah!
03:08 nothingmuch it's more like eval {}, less like a block
03:08 autrijus_ the implicit semicolon
03:08 nothingmuch err, make that do {};
03:09 wolverian are closures in void context run automatically in perl6?
03:09 autrijus_ had not been added. indeed.
03:09 autrijus_ write a test for that?
03:09 autrijus_ supposedly there is an implicit semicolon
03:09 autrijus_ after all statement level bare blocks
03:09 autrijus_ yup
03:09 autrijus_ always so
03:09 autrijus_ but not void context
03:09 nothingmuch will do
03:09 autrijus_ rather, "statement level"
03:09 nothingmuch ugh!
03:09 nothingmuch this is confusing
03:09 autrijus_ the difference being that the last {} in a sub
03:09 autrijus_ will still run
03:09 autrijus_ instead of getting context from caller
03:09 wolverian hmm. why?
03:10 autrijus_ err, in spite of getting ocntext from caller
03:10 autrijus_ because it's more consistent that way.
03:10 autrijus_ sub foo { ... {my $x; $x + 1} } ... say foo()
03:10 autrijus_ should say 1
03:10 autrijus_ not a subref.
03:10 nothingmuch oi
03:10 autrijus_ that agrees with my intuition.
03:10 wolverian I would prefer a subref. creating closures without keywords is elegant to me. :)
03:10 nothingmuch they are not running
03:10 autrijus_ wolverian: you can use a "return"
03:10 autrijus_ return { my $x }
03:11 autrijus_ which will indeed return a closur
03:11 autrijus_ e
03:11 autrijus_ nothingmuch: they are not?!
03:11 wolverian ah, okay. will a 'sub { .. }' without return() still run immediately?
03:11 autrijus_ post an example?
03:11 nothingmuch { say "foo" };
03:11 autrijus_ nope. only bares.
03:11 nothingmuch does nothing
03:11 wolverian ah, thanks!
03:11 metaperl junction tests added to 03operator.t ... now to make some more tests for the other junction calls
03:11 autrijus_ oi. I broke it.
03:11 autrijus_ nothingmuch: fixing it right now
03:11 nothingmuch wünderbar
03:11 autrijus_ but being diverted by policitcal talks
03:13 metaperl autrijus dont talk about politics in PRC. Wait til you get back to Taiwan.
03:13 metaperl we want you to make it back
03:14 autrijus_ ha.
03:14 autrijus_ no, I'm watching verbal duels between various ministers and their technical advisors
03:14 obra fun!
03:15 autrijus_ yeah!
03:16 nothingmuch sent patch for lone blocks test
03:16 nothingmuch given patch is waiting for you fix (as tested by this patch)
03:16 nothingmuch now i'm back to try test
03:17 nothingmuch set your darcs repo email, btw
03:18 nothingmuch oops, wrong relayhost, sending agian
03:19 autrijus_ yeah, the "sub" Syn broke bare block
03:19 autrijus_ it's fixed now
03:19 autrijus_ nothingmuch: do you prefer darcs much more than svn?
03:19 nothingmuch much much more
03:19 nothingmuch but i can flex
03:19 autrijus_ ok... I'll try not selling you to svk :)
03:19 nothingmuch if it's too much trouble synching then i am willing to give it up
03:19 autrijus_ it's easier for me to make you a svn/svk committer
03:19 autrijus_ than darcs
03:19 autrijus_ nono, you should use your fav tool
03:20 wolverian hrm, why does ghci error when I do a 'foo = bar'? using 'let' works, but why?
03:20 autrijus_ it's just I need more bandwidth to make you a darcs committer
03:20 autrijus_ wolverian: because it's not in file level
03:20 nothingmuch hmm
03:20 wolverian autrijus_: oh, right.
03:20 nothingmuch so what if i darcs send to a place that is not autrijus.org, but where the repos are?
03:21 nothingmuch and procmail lifts it?
03:21 autrijus_ no idea
03:21 autrijus_ I'll make you a svn committer now
03:21 metaperl it would've been interesting to make junctions use ? as a sigil
03:21 nothingmuch there's a good example in the manual
03:21 autrijus_ if that's okay with you
03:21 nothingmuch it is
03:21 metaperl my ?address = any(qw(mr mrs sir sire));
03:21 autrijus_ you can commit to svn if you'd like; otherwise I can make you a darcs committer nex tweek
03:21 autrijus_ does it sound ok?
03:21 metaperl if ($address eq ?address) { print "OK" }
03:22 wolverian autrijus_: how do I define two 'foo's then? I'm missing something obvious. it seems like each line is its own lexical scope.
03:22 nothingmuch well, i'll have the stuff done in 30 minutes
03:22 nothingmuch i'm going to sleep soon
03:22 nothingmuch it's already early
03:22 nothingmuch so svn access now
03:22 autrijus_ wolverian: you write a test.hs and load it.
03:22 nothingmuch or i can just expose a darcs repo for you to pull from
03:22 wolverian autrijus_: okay. :) thanks.
03:22 metaperl i'm still confused about how one repository can be manipulated by 2 different VCSes
03:23 autrijus_ metaperl: that is clkao's specialty.
03:23 crysflame the VCSes manipulate eachother
03:23 metaperl dont they keep records differently
03:23 nothingmuch http://darcs.net/manual/node4.html#SECTION00455050000000000000
03:23 metaperl oh
03:23 crysflame also, clkao : vcs :: autrijus : perl
03:23 crysflame and i think in similar respects clkao is just as mad
03:23 crysflame i remember he was writing a JS interface from PErl once
03:23 autrijus_ yup.
03:24 autrijus_ nothingmuch: invitation sent
03:24 nothingmuch Reading /home/nothingmuch/.maildir/... 12170    
03:24 clkao who wrote js interface from perl ?
03:24 nothingmuch dum dee dum
03:24 clkao that sounds ingyish
03:24 autrijus_ you'd need to click on the url in it and agree to a term of use http://wagner.elixus.org/~hcchien/termtouse.html
03:24 autrijus_ which is just sf.net's
03:25 autrijus_ and then you can commit to svn.openfoundry.org/pugs
03:25 autrijus_ nothingmuch: I'll let you commit your own test :)
03:25 autrijus_ but it should work.
03:26 crysflame clkao: wait, that wasn't you?
03:26 crysflame it was claes then
03:26 crysflame my apologies
03:29 nothingmuch i would like real darcs access later on though, since it's cooler. They don't conflict, do they?
03:29 autrijus_ nope.
03:29 autrijus_ or rather, if they do, we solve it at the svk side.
03:29 crysflame svk is the borg
03:29 nothingmuch =)
03:31 nothingmuch ok, so now that i have svn
03:31 nothingmuch and i'm installing svk
03:31 nothingmuch where can i find a very short svk tut?
03:31 * clkao grins
03:32 clkao svk.elixus.org/?SVKTutorial has a 30sec one
03:32 autrijus_ svk.elixus.org has some links.
03:32 autrijus_ yup. the 30sec one is good enough.
03:33 autrijus_ "the economies have agreed to establish a study group on studying the structural changes on the future changes of AOSS"
03:33 autrijus_ yay for another donothing statement.
03:33 * autrijus_ has been hearing noops all day long
03:33 clkao it's just half day, how can you be hearing all day long?
03:33 autrijus_ because they Invade My Dreams
03:34 autrijus_ I wonder who chromatic did not mark that sky==arther bergman
03:34 autrijus_ in the interview
03:34 autrijus_ maybe he did not know.
03:36 crysflame entirely possible
03:36 crysflame for the first week of work, i kept waking up from operations in progress and thinking "man, i need to get back to sleep or i'll miss something"
03:36 crysflame that sealed my belief in dreams as "Brain teaching itself new shit based on recent memories"
03:37 crysflame after a solid week of sleeping and waking work, i slept and read and watched movies all weekend
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03:39 nothingmuch awwe! svk download broke
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03:51 wolverian hrm, I can't figure out yaht exercise 3.10 :(
04:04 scw http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/svk-overview.png
04:05 scw wolverian: What's the problem? I wrote it as my first Haskell program!
04:07 wolverian scw: I can't figure out if I should use 'read' somewhere, and if so, how.
04:08 wolverian well, I do use it in my askForNumbers, but then in the main code I can't figure out how to get at the list returned by it.
04:39 autrijus_ has joined #perl6
04:43 autrijus_ I just did a silly thing
04:43 autrijus_ (submitted pugs to /.)
04:43 obra has quit IRC ("Lost terminal")
04:44 autrijus_ so, watch out for troll invasions
04:44 autrijus_ lunch now, bbiab &
04:44 autrijus_ svk download broke?
04:44 obra has joined #perl6
04:44 clkao autrijus_: huh?
04:44 crysflame oh gee
04:45 crysflame autrijus: get some of us with ops, then
04:45 autrijus_ makes sense. will do so after lunch
04:45 autrijus_ clkao: <nothingmuch> awwe! svk download broke
04:45 autrijus_ it worksforme.
04:46 autrijus_ &
05:06 scw wolverian: `read' has a parameter of string and return number
05:07 scw wolverian: so I get a line from user by    line <- getLine
05:07 wolverian yeah.
05:07 scw wolverian: then use `let num = read line' to get the number :)
05:07 wolverian my problem is that once I return the list of returned numbers, I can't figure out how to sum it
05:08 wolverian s/returned numbers/read numbers/
05:08 scw wolverian: try `foldl' or `foldr'
05:08 wolverian GHC complains it wanted [a] there, when it got IO ()
05:10 scw Oh! use `numbers <- askForNumbers' instead of equal mark!
05:10 wolverian I do.
05:10 scw And did you use `return []' in askForNumbers?
05:10 wolverian yes.
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05:11 scw strange, can you post your code somewhere?
05:11 wolverian oh, I have a bug in there. give me a second.
05:12 wolverian hmm, didn't fix anything. yeah, I'll paste.
05:12 wolverian perlbot: nopaste?
05:12 perlbot Paste your code here and #perl will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/perl
05:14 autrijus_ has joined #perl6
05:14 wolverian scw: http://sial.org/pbot/7880
05:15 tmoertel scw: watch the precedence; function application binds tighter than ++
05:16 wolverian hrm.
05:16 wolverian was that for me? :)
05:16 tmoertel wolverian: yes (sorry, scw, I'm sleepy)
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05:17 wolverian I think I am too tired for this.
05:19 tmoertel wolverian: what is the type of foldl?
05:19 wolverian something inanely long.
05:19 wolverian :)
05:19 tmoertel wolverian: ok, then, how many arguments does it take?
05:20 wolverian oh for the love of god.
05:20 wolverian I am going to kill myself with a teaspoon.
05:20 wolverian thankyou.
05:20 scw And, you cannot ++ a string and a number.
05:20 scw the number should be cast to string by `show' first :)
05:20 wolverian by show? I didn't see that in this tutorial.
05:20 wolverian argh.
05:21 tmoertel (I guess the tutorial also didn't mention the "sum" function ;-)
05:21 wolverian absolutely not.
05:22 tmoertel well, folds are more fun, anyway  :)
05:22 wolverian hrm, so how would I cast them?
05:22 wolverian I just tried map show. :)
05:23 tmoertel show converts a value into its string representation
05:23 tmoertel if you map it over a list of values, you will have a list of string representations
05:24 wolverian right. what I need is actually first the number representations, to sum over, then convert that to string.
05:25 tmoertel well, askForNumbers has type (IO [Int]), so you have a list of numbers
05:25 wolverian hrm.
05:25 tmoertel if you (foldl (+) 0 numbers), you will get back a single number, the sum
05:26 tmoertel and if you show this number, you'll have the string representation of the sum
05:26 wolverian it seems to be complaining that the foldl wants [a], but it gets IO () (that is, numbers <- askForNumbers)
05:26 tmoertel can you re-paste your code?
05:26 wolverian sure.
05:27 wolverian http://sial.org/pbot/7881
05:27 tmoertel ah, how do you think the following expression is parsed:
05:28 tmoertel f x ++ y
05:28 wolverian f (x ++ y)
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05:28 wolverian am I wrong? :)
05:28 tmoertel ah, but function application binds most highly:
05:28 wolverian right. now it is fixed.
05:28 tmoertel the compiler sees this: (f x) ++ y
05:28 wolverian thankyou again. :)
05:28 tmoertel i live to serve   :)
05:29 wolverian whoot, it actually runs.
05:29 metaperl did my junction tests work out?
05:29 * metaperl updating now
05:30 metaperl some of my junction tests failed... i hope they are sane tests
05:30 metaperl they are in t/03operator.t if someone wants to verify them
05:31 metaperl they came from an Exegesis
05:32 metaperl http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/07/29/exegesis6.html?page=4
05:34 cls_bsd which tests failed?
05:34 cls_bsd 27
05:34 cls_bsd ~29?
05:36 cls_bsd number 27: ok( all(@newval2) > any(@oldval), "all test array against any array" );
05:36 cls_bsd ok, we have newval2 (15, 7, 20)   and oldval (5, 8, 12)
05:37 cls_bsd how do we expect a "ok" when 7 < 8?
05:38 tmoertel wishful thinking, perhaps?  :)
05:38 cls_bsd so it should be todo_ok? :p
05:39 tmoertel of couse, all of (15,7,20) *are* greater than 5
05:39 metaperl 4 of them starting at line 78
05:39 cls_bsd but they want "any"?
05:39 cls_bsd maybe I was wrong ?_?
05:39 cls_bsd besides, the following test is really weird,
05:39 tmoertel what are the semantics of any?
05:39 cls_bsd ok( all(@newval1) > all(@oldval), "all test array against all array" );
05:39 metaperl there is a link to the article
05:39 cls_bsd yes, checking the article
05:40 metaperl cls_bsd: there is nothing weird about that test per the article
05:40 metaperl http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/07/29/exegesis6.html?page=4
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05:40 tmoertel my read of the article is that if any of 5,8,or 12 is > than all of 15,7,20, the result is true
05:41 cls_bsd hmm
05:41 tmoertel s/>/</
05:41 cls_bsd just following :p
05:41 cls_bsd so the result is wrong
05:42 tmoertel i would agree
05:42 cls_bsd semantic kills
05:42 metaperl which test? paste it
05:42 cls_bsd metaperl: in 03operator.t, line 79
05:43 cls_bsd or 78
05:43 cls_bsd ?_?
05:43 cls_bsd I've confused
05:43 metaperl ok( any(@newval4) > any(@oldval), "any test array against any array" );
05:43 metaperl this one?
05:43 cls_bsd hmm, next next one
05:43 cls_bsd or next next next one :p
05:43 metaperl can you paste it
05:43 cls_bsd not_ok in my test
05:43 metaperl to cut out ambiguity
05:45 cls_bsd http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/1987
05:45 metaperl read the article:
05:45 metaperl if all(@newvals) > any(@oldvals) {
05:45 metaperl    print "These are all bigger than something already seen."
05:45 metaperl }
05:45 cls_bsd yap, so the result is wrong
05:45 metaperl if any one of oldval is such that all of newval2 is greater then it is true
05:46 metaperl the result?
05:46 cls_bsd not ok 27
05:46 cls_bsd #     Failed test (03operator.t at line 78, column 1)
05:46 cls_bsd not ok 28
05:46 cls_bsd #     Failed test (03operator.t at line 79, column 1)
05:46 cls_bsd is there any my misunderstanding?
05:46 metaperl no, there is a value of oldval, namely 5, for which ALL of newval2 is greater
05:46 metaperl I think the tests are right. I just wanted to verify
05:46 cls_bsd hmm
05:46 autrijus_ ugh. my /. submission was rejected immediately.
05:47 autrijus_ so, no trolls.
05:47 clkao ha
05:47 metaperl autrijus, I want to make sure my logic is clear in the test I made in 03operator.t
05:47 metaperl they are based on this article:
05:47 metaperl http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/07/29/exegesis6.html?page=4
05:47 metaperl they are currently failing
05:48 autrijus_ "and" always autothread first
05:48 autrijus_ I mean "all"
05:48 autrijus_ ok( all(@newval2) > any(@oldval), "all test array against any array" );
05:48 autrijus_ this becomes
05:48 autrijus_ all( 15 > any(5, 8, 12), 7 > any(5, 8, 12), 20 > any(5, 8, 12) )
05:49 autrijus_ which is all(true, true, true)
05:49 autrijus_ which should be true.
05:49 autrijus_ so it's pugs's bug
05:49 autrijus_ if it evaluates to false.
05:49 autrijus_ afaics.
05:49 buu autrijus_: Did you implement the zip operator?
05:50 autrijus_ buu: I did, but it lost with the hard disk
05:50 autrijus_ so no
05:50 metaperl autrijus, have you ever been tempted to give up Perl and find a job as a full-time Haskeller?
05:50 autrijus_ buu: write a test?
05:50 metaperl do you think Perl6 is worth your time?
05:50 metaperl obviously so, I suppose
05:50 buu autrijus_: As soon as I figure out how to actually create that character.
05:51 metaperl sorry to speak heresy amongst the converted
05:51 autrijus_ metaperl: err, writing no code at all (with CPAN) beats writing very little code in haskell
05:51 autrijus_ buu: nono, you use infix Y
05:51 autrijus_ the yen can be written as Y
05:51 buu Oh it can? El33t.
05:51 autrijus_ metaperl: no need to apologize :)
05:51 metaperl ok, well I just wanted to make sure my test cases were sane before going to sleep
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05:51 autrijus_ they look sane. great work!
05:51 autrijus_ rehi theory.
05:52 metaperl ok thanks!
05:52 metaperl thanks for input cls_bsd
05:52 metaperl tmoert
05:52 autrijus_ and no it's not heresy; it's one of the FAQs :)
05:52 autrijus_ but I didn't list it in PA01 because it's a bit personal :)
05:52 justatheory waddup, autrijus
05:53 autrijus_ nothing much, about to take a nap
05:53 justatheory Sounds like a plan.
05:55 autrijus_ :)
05:55 autrijus_ zzz &
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06:22 * tmoertel hit the close key too many times ...
06:26 tmoertel (any(1,2),any(3,4)) evaluates to (1|2|3|4)
06:27 tmoertel should it be ((1|2),(3|4)) ?
06:31 buu tmoertel: Er, no
06:31 buu Or at least, I didn't think so at first, but now I'm considering.
06:31 tmoertel can you give me a ptr to the ref on that?
06:31 buu no =[
06:31 tmoertel what, then, should the following eval to?
06:32 buu I was thinking: ((1,2),(3,4))
06:32 buu Which is exactly the same as (1,2,3,4)
06:32 tmoertel $a := any(1,2); $b := any(3,4); ($a,$b)
06:32 buu What's the difference between 1|2,3|4 and 1|2|3|4 ?
06:33 tmoertel inside of parens, the first is a 2-elem array and the second a 1-elem array
06:33 buu Hrm
06:34 buu Yeah, it does sound like it should be 1|2,3|4
06:34 tmoertel and, in fact, if you feed pugs "(1|2,3|4)" you ge the expected result
06:35 buu heh
06:35 buu Optimization I guess
06:35 buu Or something.
06:35 tmoertel I call it "error injection"  ;-)
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08:58 buu Crap
08:58 buu I need ingy =[
08:58 autrijus_ tmoertel: damian ruled that
08:58 autrijus_ any(), all() and none()
08:59 autrijus_ will join the same junctions
08:59 autrijus_ inside them
08:59 buu autrijus_: Do you happen to know if: .baz\n should be a format named 'baz' or just a text section?
08:59 autrijus_ it's a format named baz.
08:59 buu k
08:59 buu So you can't have a format named .list ?
09:00 buu Weird.
09:00 buu That's.. really weird
09:00 buu What the hell is wrong with: .format html
09:00 autrijus_ nono you can have a .list
09:00 autrijus_ it's just the handler is predefined.
09:00 autrijus_ that's all
09:00 buu autrijus_: No, .list is a list section, not a list format.
09:00 buu You see the difference.
09:00 autrijus_ then .baz is a baz section?
09:01 * autrijus_ not sure seeing the difference
09:01 autrijus_ has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
09:06 autrijus <- need blood sugar
09:06 autrijus so, dinner now, be back in a while &
09:07 buu ..
09:07 buu bte
09:07 buu bye
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11:59 jacleo help
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13:16 clkao mmm
13:16 clkao $ ab -clkao- [~/work/pugs] svk up -s
13:16 clkao RA layer request failed: PROPFIND request failed on '/pugs': PROPFIND of '/pugs': Could not read response body: Connection reset by peer (http://svn.openfoundry.org)
13:16 clkao hate! openfoundry outage again!
13:16 clkao it's like every weekend
13:17 scw clkao: openfoundry is helping spreading svk :p
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13:44 stevan ahhh
13:44 stevan openfoundry is down
13:45 stevan anyone know of an alternative SVN repo?
13:48 clkao svn.perl.org/perl6 seems to have a mirror
13:48 stevan clkao: thanks i will give it a try
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13:50 stevan hmmm clkao it seems to be behind a few versions
13:51 stevan oh well, i suppose I will have to do regular work today :P
13:51 stevan my boss with appreciate that Im sure
13:52 clkao now you know the importance of svk
13:52 stevan clkao: I have been meaning to give it a try actually, maybe this is a sign
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14:24 * Coke_ ~~ @ autrijus
14:24 autrijus_ greetings!
14:24 autrijus_ svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/ is the temporary trunk for the next 24 or so hours
14:25 autrijus_ stevan: I've fixed the double evaluation bug.
14:25 nnunley Fun.
14:25 stevan cool,.. now I don't have to do real work today
14:25 autrijus_ shift.t and inc.t now all passed.
14:25 stevan autrijus: NICE
14:25 jdv79 weird, i thought that _was_ the trunk
14:25 autrijus_ :D
14:25 autrijus_ gugod_: http://0rz.net/990cd
14:26 autrijus_ stevan: 'fraid you'd need to send patches to p6c for now
14:26 autrijus_ as svn.perl.org committership is beyond my control
14:26 stevan autrijus: I think I actually have access
14:26 stevan I got it for work I did on the DBI tests
14:27 clkao hi autrijus
14:27 autrijus_ oh!
14:27 autrijus_ wow. then commit at will
14:27 autrijus_ hi clkao
14:28 stevan autrijus: if I can I will :)
14:28 autrijus_ stevan++
14:28 autrijus_ I hope I'm not hurting your Real Work too much :)
14:29 stevan autrijus: nah, I was already a week or so ahead of schedule, so its all good
14:29 autrijus_ ooh. you r0x0rz
14:29 autrijus_ metaperl_: I figured out your junction bug
14:30 autrijus_ any(2,5) < all(3,4)
14:30 autrijus_ was parsed as
14:30 clkao autrijus_: so, matthewd is able to reproduce insufficient Encode on win32 cp680(?) system
14:30 autrijus_ any((2,5) < all(3,4))
14:30 autrijus_ which is highly weird
14:30 autrijus_ but at least that explains all the failures
14:30 autrijus_ if you use (2|5) < (3&4)
14:30 autrijus_ then it works as expected
14:30 autrijus_ I'm looking into it.
14:30 autrijus_ clkao: ah, I got it.
14:30 autrijus_ clkao: wish I had that information sooner
14:31 * autrijus_ fixes
14:32 clkao what was that about?
14:32 clkao autrijus_: actually it was cp850 looking at the log
14:34 nnunley gmail-- # Doesn't correctly remember which messages were downloaded via pop.
14:41 cls_bsd well, openfoundry will disappear tomorrow...
14:43 autrijus_ well it already did...
14:43 cls_bsd iis--
14:44 cls_bsd our cluster machines' gone,too
14:44 autrijus_ sigh.
14:45 * nnunley downloads svk on gentoo... Successfully for a change. :)
14:54 * clkao thought nnunley was already using it
14:59 stevan autrijus: apparently i dont have commit access to the pugs dir
14:59 stevan will svk solve this problem (bascially allow me to commit locally and then sync later)
15:00 clkao that's the whole point about svk
15:00 stevan clkao: cool
15:00 stevan where is the best place to get svk then?
15:00 stevan cpan?
15:00 clkao cpan is fine. or check SVKInstall on the wiki to see if there's already package on your platform
15:01 stevan wiki?
15:01 Coke_ seems like you have to be doing a LOT of work with no net connection for svk to be worth it.
15:02 clkao stevan: svk.elixus.org
15:02 clkao well yes, but just once, and you got plenty of chances to be left offline or to want to be offline )
15:02 clkao :)
15:06 nnunley clkao:  Gentoo was failing to merge it in for the longest time.
15:06 stevan clkao: installing the svk fink package right now
15:06 clkao ah, osx, you might want the standalone dmg. should be easier.
15:07 stevan clkao: I already have svn installed through fink,..
15:07 stevan I didnt want any conflicts between the standalone and my svn install
15:07 autrijus_ has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
15:09 tmoertel autrijus: do you have a pointer on damian's rationale for ((any(xs),any(ys)) -> any(xs,ys) ?
15:09 tmoertel s/pointer on/pointer to/
15:10 nnunley Oye.  Failed.
15:11 autrijus_ has joined #perl6
15:14 clkao autrijus_: when are you heading back
15:14 clkao nnunley: how did it fail?
15:14 nnunley clkao:  Meta data versioning in the sign tests.
15:15 nnunley clkao:  Invalid filesystem revision number: No such revision 5
15:15 clkao huh? 72sign.t ?
15:15 autrijus_ clkao: 6th morning
15:15 nnunley clkao: Yeap.  72sign.t
15:15 clkao nnunley: can you tell which test in it exactly?
15:16 nnunley clkao:  3-7
15:16 justatheory has joined #perl6
15:16 clkao quite strange. that's new to me.
15:17 nnunley clkao:  Shall I mail you the failures?
15:17 clkao ya, prove -lv output would be great.
15:17 clkao and the version of perl, svn, svk
15:17 autrijus_ tmoertel: see the junctive thread on p6l
15:17 autrijus_ tmoertel: I think it's been damian's goal that
15:17 autrijus_ any(1,2,2,2) ===> any(1,2)
15:17 autrijus_ any(1,2,any(2,2)) ===> any(1,2)
15:17 autrijus_ i.e. it will avoid trivial duplicates
15:18 tmoertel but how can I create an array of two scalars, both junctions?
15:18 nnunley clkao:  This is svk-0.29  --  I have limited control how the packaging system runs the tests. :(
15:18 nnunley That is, the gentoo system.  They don't have svk-0.30 pushed up yet as an ebuild.
15:18 clkao uhm. can it be your gpg hates other software?
15:19 clkao but i think that's rather harmless failure, just force install it
15:19 clkao :p
15:19 tmoertel autrijus_: i asked about ((any(1,2)),(any(3,4))) not (any(1,2,any(3,4)))
15:19 autrijus_ any(any(1,2),any(3,4)) ?
15:19 autrijus_ how is it semantically different from any(1,2,3,4)?
15:20 autrijus_ from all autothreading point of view
15:20 tmoertel autrijus_: there is no outer any: (    any(1,2)  ,    any(3,4)      )
15:21 autrijus_ oh.
15:21 autrijus_ that is a parsing error
15:21 autrijus_ I've just said that
15:21 tmoertel the one you just fixed?
15:21 autrijus_ pugs misparsed it
15:21 autrijus_ no, that's separate
15:21 autrijus_ I'm looking into that now
15:21 tmoertel sorry, I was out for the last six hours  
15:21 PerlJam good morning pugsateers
15:21 autrijus_ greetings perljam
15:21 autrijus_ tmoertel: so, yeah, basically all builtin listops are misparsed
15:22 autrijus_ "any(1), all(2)"  ===> parsed as
15:22 autrijus_ "any((1), all(2))"
15:22 PerlJam um ... is there something wrong with openfoundry?  I just tried to "svn up" and got svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/'
15:22 autrijus_ PerlJam: svn.perl.org is the new trunk
15:22 autrijus_ for the next 36hrs
15:22 PerlJam why is that?
15:22 autrijus_ openfoundry is down for mantainence.
15:22 clkao because svn.openfoundry = hate
15:23 PerlJam gotcha
15:23 autrijus_ which is a fancy word to mean they need to upgrade their hosting facility
15:23 autrijus_ for more cooling systems, etc.
15:24 PerlJam (svn switch)++
15:25 clkao i'd be thrilled if svn switch --relocate would work, as i guess the revision number would be slightly different
15:25 autrijus_ different repoids
15:25 autrijus_ so won't fly
15:25 PerlJam well bumemr
15:25 PerlJam er, bummer even
15:25 autrijus_ so just checkout again
15:26 autrijus_ good. we made tpj news
15:28 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
15:34 stevan autrijus: svn.perl.org does not seem to be the latest code
15:36 justatheory has quit IRC ()
15:42 autrijus_ stevan: really.
15:42 autrijus_ what's missing from it?
15:43 stevan autrijus: the t/op/quoting.t file
15:43 stevan and the test count is 689 and not 1003
15:43 autrijus_ it's as recent as my latest sync
15:43 stevan hmmm
15:44 autrijus_ I've added quoting.t
15:44 autrijus_ committing now
15:44 autrijus_ I recalculated the count for two files
15:45 stevan autrijus: recalculated?
15:49 PerlJam stevan: He looked to see how many tests were actually run in those files and changed the plan accordingly  (I think)
15:49 autrijus_ the plan() was affected by reevaluation for two tests
15:49 autrijus_ yup.
15:49 stevan ahh, which tests?
15:52 autrijus_ uh. I forgot :)
15:52 autrijus_ 01basic I think
15:52 autrijus_ and something in op/
15:52 stevan ok,.. no big deal
15:52 autrijus_ yup
15:52 autrijus_ so have youdiffed your tree with the latest svn.perl.org one?
15:52 stevan autrijus: I am gonna just send patches to p6c, is svn diff okay for that?
15:52 autrijus_ sure thing
15:52 stevan autrijus: I am doing that right now
15:53 * PerlJam suddenly sees the beauty in svk and carry-your-repository-with-you style SCMs
15:55 mister-foo has joined #perl6
15:55 autrijus_ PerlJam: eureka!
15:57 autrijus_ weird parsing foo... fixed
15:58 autrijus_ but may cause more breackage
15:58 * autrijus_ crosses fingers and types "make test"
15:58 autrijus_ 1/17 unexpectedly succeeded
15:58 autrijus_ 1/12 unexpectedly succeeded
15:58 autrijus_ and so one and so forth
15:58 autrijus_ 7/31 unexpectedly succeeded
15:58 autrijus_ I think I'm doing something right
15:58 autrijus_ ;)
15:58 mister-foo expect the worst, and all your surprises will be pleasant?
15:59 autrijus_ yeah but I apparently broke push()'s signature
15:59 autrijus_ fixing
15:59 autrijus_ (15 subtests UNEXPECTEDLY SUCCEEDED)
15:59 mister-foo btw, which repository (darcs, svn, ...) is up-to-date?
16:00 autrijus_ at this second, svn.perl.org is the one up to date
16:00 autrijus_ I'm fixing darcs to pull from it
16:01 autrijus_ openfoundry is normally the most up to date one
16:01 autrijus_ but is currently down.
16:01 stevan autrijus: I will unTODO those tests once you commit
16:01 stevan I already did that for push.t and auto.t
16:01 autrijus_ ok, let me apply your patch first
16:01 mister-foo hence the question...  I suppose both VC systems can co-exist in the same directory.  Weird, but cool.
16:02 autrijus_ yeah, it can.
16:02 autrijus_ because svk doesn't use .svn or _darcs or other weird foo.
16:02 autrijus_ so it can coexist with pretty much anything :)
16:03 mister-foo Speaking as a staunch CVS man, all these new-fangled contraptions are strange and shiny to me.
16:05 hlafarge has quit IRC ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
16:06 stevan autrijus: patch #1 in the mail
16:08 autrijus_ got it
16:09 mister-foo autrijus: Sean O here, btw.  'sup?
16:09 mister-foo is now known as seano
16:10 autrijus_ hi Sean O!
16:10 autrijus_ heya. as you can see we're busily working to clean up todo_* tests as usual :)
16:12 autrijus_ I've been thinking about how to tackle BEGIN
16:12 seano The number of tests is truly impressive.
16:12 autrijus_ did P6C tabkle that?
16:12 autrijus_ for that matter, I don't think we have tests for BEGIN :)
16:13 seano I looked at doing "my ($x, $y) = ..." last night, but got lost in a twisty maze of monads and Vals, and fell asleep.
16:13 autrijus_ ooh.
16:13 autrijus_ right, you already knew haskell.
16:13 seano No.  Since it was static, it didn't handle inserting perl6 code into the compiler.
16:13 autrijus_ the code that handles my $a = foo
16:14 autrijus_ in on Eval.hs
16:14 autrijus_ second case of reduceStatements
16:14 seano The most "introspective" feature it got was splicing in new grammar rules according to sub signatures (see the bottom of P6C/Parser.pm).
16:14 autrijus_    | Syn "sym" (Sym sym@(Symbol _ name (Syn "mval" [_, vexp])):other) <- exp = do
16:14 autrijus_ that will evaluate RHS, insert it back to the "sym" slot
16:15 autrijus_ then redispatch to a normal "sym" case (5th)
16:15 autrijus_    | Syn "sym" syms <- exp = do
16:15 autrijus_ which will then inject it into the lexical space.
16:15 autrijus_ now I don't quite know what
16:15 autrijus_ my ($x, $y) = @a;
16:15 autrijus_ will work
16:15 autrijus_ I mean, in perl5 of course they get @a[0] and @a[1]
16:16 autrijus_ but do we need slurpy star in p6?
16:16 seano Rigth, iirc. that needs to be either "my ($x, $y) = *@a" or $y stays undef.
16:16 autrijus_ will that make $x into \@a and $y into undef?
16:16 seano Think so.
16:16 autrijus_ my (*$x, *$y) = @a;
16:16 autrijus_ is this anywhere near legal?
16:16 autrijus_ my (*$x, *$y) := @a;
16:16 seano I need to get hasktags working here.  Man, I hate using grep/isearch supported languages.
16:16 autrijus_ sure. hasktags workedforme
16:16 seano What does a splat on a scalar do?
16:17 nothingmuch Auto-merging (0, 5) /pugs to /mirror/pugs (base /mirror/pugs:3).
16:17 nothingmuch ===> Auto-merging (0, 4) /pugs to /mirror/pugs (base /mirror/pugs:3).
16:17 nothingmuch Merging back to mirror source http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs.
16:17 nothingmuch RA layer request failed: OPTIONS request failed on '/pugs': The OPTIONS request returned invalid XML in the response: XML parse error at line 8: Opening and ending tag mismatch: p line 0 and body
16:17 nothingmuch . (/pugs) at /usr/local/svk-0.30/perl/5.8.1/SVK/Command.pm line 155
16:17 autrijus_ hi, nothingmuch. openfoundry is down for 36 hours.
16:17 nothingmuch sorry, i fell asleep yesterday
16:17 nothingmuch ah
16:17 nothingmuch ok,
16:17 autrijus_ please channel your patches to p6c.
16:17 autrijus_ svk push -P -
16:17 autrijus_ will produce such a patch.
16:19 metaperl has joined #perl6
16:19 nothingmuch sent
16:19 autrijus_ danke.
16:20 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
16:21 bd_ has joined #perl6
16:22 stevan morning nothingmuch
16:22 nothingmuch morning
16:23 autrijus_ stevan: I've hand 3-way merged the three repos
16:23 nothingmuch how do i svk push -P only one patch?
16:23 stevan autrijus: ouch
16:23 autrijus_ stevan: uh, it took me <1min
16:23 autrijus_ thanks to svk
16:23 nothingmuch more specifically
16:23 autrijus_ so nothing really ouch :)
16:23 autrijus_ nothingmuch: you prolly want "svk desc"
16:23 stevan autrijus: BTW the diff did not show anything odd
16:24 stevan svk++ then
16:24 * seano curses darwinports for deciding to install Perl behind my back to install SVK.
16:24 nothingmuch how do match patches?
16:24 nnunley autrijus_: Well...  Not entirely by hand then, eh?
16:24 nothingmuch seano - the binary package is prolly good enough
16:24 stevan seano: I used the binary pkg and it was fine
16:24 autrijus_ nnunley: sure, you can't tweak bits by hand anyway
16:25 wilx` Hmm, I am getting parse error on http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/Source/index.html/pugs/rss/
16:25 stevan autrijus: I am seeing something really weird
16:25 stevan pugs -e 'sub foo returns List { return [1, 2, 3] }; my $x = foo(); say ref($x)'
16:25 nnunley autrijus_: Well, it would take a bit of concentration...  Years of practice to tweak the right ones...
16:25 autrijus_ wilx`: it's down
16:25 stevan prints 'Int'
16:25 wilx` Oh.
16:26 seano stevan, autrijus: thanks.
16:27 stevan autrijus: even weirder
16:27 stevan pugs -e 'sub foo returns List { return [ 'foo', 'bar' ] }; my $x = foo(); say ref($x); say $x'
16:27 stevan sends PUGS into a CPU eating spiral of death
16:27 autrijus_ !!.
16:27 autrijus_ just a sec.
16:28 nothingmuch ack! I have svk log talk about r6
16:28 nothingmuch and then i'm trying svk push -f (r6|6) -P -
16:28 nothingmuch it says 6 is not a depot path
16:28 autrijus_ the junction bug has gotten into you?
16:29 nothingmuch no, that was human oriented junctioning
16:29 nothingmuch or rather, regexing
16:29 autrijus_ makes sense
16:29 nothingmuch without having to learn svk from scratch, how do i just do this?
16:29 nothingmuch i want to get back to what i was doing
16:30 autrijus_ darcs revert ?
16:30 autrijus_ err
16:30 autrijus_ svk revert?
16:30 nothingmuch no, in the sense "i want to finish saving this patch to a file so i can continue my work"
16:30 stevan autrijus: in the interactive PUGS environ
16:30 stevan sub foo returns List { return [ 'foo', 'bar' ] }; my $x = foo(); say(ref($x)); say($x)
16:30 stevan does not spiral into death :)
16:31 autrijus_ oh.
16:31 stevan however, it does print 'Str' (for the ref()) then 'bar'
16:31 stevan and not 'List' like it should
16:31 autrijus_ nothingmuch: use svk log to find the local rev you wnat to push
16:31 autrijus_ nothingmuch: then "svk desc 123 > foo.patch"
16:31 nothingmuch i found out, it's 6
16:31 nothingmuch ah
16:32 nothingmuch so what's svk push -P ? desc all the patches since last real push?
16:32 autrijus_ essentially that.
16:32 nothingmuch ok
16:32 nothingmuch ok, patch #2, given tests, sent
16:32 nothingmuch now back to try-catch
16:33 autrijus_ woot. I'm still sorting thru my mismerges
16:34 nothingmuch note that t/base/given.t depends on t/base/anon_blocks.t passing (todo tests too)
16:34 nothingmuch or wait, it doesn't
16:34 nothingmuch crap, scrap that patch
16:35 nothingmuch uncrap, i typed the wrong email address, so it bounced anyway =D
16:35 autrijus_ hehe
16:35 * stevan hands nothingmuch some coffee
16:36 * nothingmuch just had coffee + baklawe
16:36 nothingmuch mui bien
16:36 * stevan hands nothingmuch his medication :P
16:37 nothingmuch where is that svk/darcs comparison table?
16:38 autrijus_ there is many ones
16:38 nothingmuch how can i zap a patch?
16:38 autrijus_ in svk?
16:38 nothingmuch uhuh
16:39 nothingmuch or maybe that comparison was for tentative features?
16:39 autrijus_ in darcs? unpull?
16:39 nothingmuch more like unrecord
16:39 nothingmuch unpull = unrecord + revert, sort of
16:39 nothingmuch i want the changes to be made active again
16:39 autrijus_ sure
16:39 autrijus_ unrecord in svk is impossible.
16:39 autrijus_ which is why I learned haskell
16:39 nothingmuch oi
16:39 autrijus_ in the first place.
16:39 autrijus_ you can apply the reverse patch easily
16:40 nothingmuch i'll zap the svk tree, and apply my sent patch to a fresh repo and just go on from there
16:40 autrijus_ via svk merge
16:40 autrijus_ but that's not the same thing.
16:40 autrijus_ that sounds sane.
16:40 autrijus_ I should've been working on SVK post-1.0 task now
16:40 autrijus_ if not for this pugs thing :)
16:40 nothingmuch oh wait, will i be able to check out now?
16:41 autrijus_ sure, from http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk
16:42 nothingmuch so why did i checkout from another repo yday?
16:42 autrijus_ because openfoundry was the main repo
16:42 autrijus_ and it was down for maintanence
16:42 autrijus_ for the next 36 hours.
16:42 autrijus_ which sucks, but we deal
16:47 nothingmuch autrijus: the implicit colon stuff is not working
16:48 _metaperl has joined #perl6
16:48 nothingmuch anon blocks now execute
16:48 nothingmuch so two parts of the nest are passing
16:48 nothingmuch s/nest/test/
16:49 autrijus_ wait wait
16:49 autrijus_ we're talking about your p6c patch?
16:50 autrijus_ stevan: I've finished 3way merge; some tests fail due to misprototyping of unshift() and push() vs the new parsing; I'll deal
16:50 autrijus_ r553 svn.perl.org
16:50 autrijus_ stevan: but you may commence unTODOing
16:51 stevan autrijus: will do
16:51 nothingmuch yes
16:51 nothingmuch this test pases: eval '{ $one = 1 }'
16:51 stevan autrijus: I am also writing a t/base/subs.t test to document that weirdness I pasted in
16:51 autrijus_ +plan 9; # from outer space
16:51 autrijus_ roflmao!
16:51 autrijus_ okie.
16:52 autrijus_ nothingmuch++
16:52 nothingmuch and this test half passes: eval '{ $one = 1 } { $two = 2 }'
16:52 nothingmuch todo_is($two) is ok
16:52 nothingmuch but not $one
16:52 autrijus_ implicit semicolon is Not There.
16:52 |hugues has joined #perl6
16:52 autrijus_ but the trailing final semicolon is optional anyway.
16:52 autrijus_ that explains the result you see.
16:52 nothingmuch ah
16:52 nothingmuch i thought you fixed
16:53 nothingmuch ok, so you fixed not executing, but not implicit semi
16:53 coaster has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
16:53 * nothingmuch will wait
16:53 autrijus_ I fixed "lone block"
16:53 autrijus_ yup.
16:53 autrijus_ committing your test
16:53 nothingmuch wait
16:53 nothingmuch untodo tests 7 and 9
16:53 nothingmuch they pass now
16:54 stevan nothingmuch: I can do that,.. I am already un-TODO-ing
16:54 autrijus_ I did.
16:54 nothingmuch and rename test 8 to "blah blah implicit semi"
16:54 autrijus_ r555 is untodoing.
16:54 nothingmuch bueno
16:54 autrijus_ I'll leave renaming to stevan.
16:54 autrijus_ I'm fising the push/unshift bug now.
16:54 autrijus_ s/fis/fix/
16:54 autrijus_ and then maybe implicit semicolon.
16:54 nothingmuch wonderful
16:54 autrijus_ TPJ says we are moving at "breakneck speed" :)
16:55 crysflame woo
16:55 crysflame the whiplash from the commit mails nearly broke my neck, man
16:55 nothingmuch how do i do the opposite of svk push -P - ?
16:55 autrijus_ svk patch apply -
16:55 autrijus_ ?
16:56 nothingmuch i guess
16:56 nothingmuch grazie
16:56 autrijus_ no prob
16:57 clkao do people like svk?
16:57 * nothingmuch prefers darcs so far
16:58 nothingmuch oh crap
16:58 nothingmuch (cd ../pugs-svk.broke/; svk desc 5) | svk patch apply -
16:58 autrijus_ nothingmuch: for svk help, #svk is the place and clkao is the author
16:58 clkao svk patch doesnt like your usual unidiff, thanks.
16:58 nothingmuch locks
16:58 autrijus_ (and for darcs help, #darcs is the place and... well droundy isn't around here)
16:58 jdv79 autrijus, maybe its because you are moving that fast :)
16:59 clkao but now i'm off to bed
16:59 nothingmuch i don't need darcs help anymore
16:59 nothingmuch =)
16:59 autrijus_ hah.
16:59 autrijus_ yeah, darcs is much more intuitive.
17:00 clkao (for people like autrijus that is not using cvs 10 years ago)
17:00 autrijus_ exactly.
17:00 autrijus_ for bugward ui compatibility (and for non-fragility, and speed), svk is wonderful.
17:01 * nothingmuch started with cvs and found it unintuitive
17:02 PerlJam nothingmuch: It's a little hard to find anything you have no experience with "intuitive"  ;-)
17:02 nothingmuch i had experience with cvs
17:02 nothingmuch i used it for about 2 years
17:02 nothingmuch oi vey, now i'm having trouble creating temp files
17:02 nothingmuch *whine*
17:03 metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:03 _metaperl is now known as metaperl
17:03 autrijus_ oi.
17:03 autrijus_ greetings metaperl-san
17:04 PerlJam Yeah, I know what you mean by intuition.  I've used CVS off and on for many years now and the biggest problem I've had is remembering the esoterica to get useful work done.  With svn (and presumably svk) the interface has a more regular structure and design such that there is no esoterica
17:04 nothingmuch i haven't really used svn, and svk has been getting treated unfairly by me in the past several hours
17:05 nothingmuch i'm biased, since openfoundry is down, and now my checkouts are confused
17:05 PerlJam nothingmuch: indeed. It's a pain.  It's too bad that svn.perl.org wasn't an online, realtime mirror of openfoundry
17:06 autrijus_ nothingmuch: darcs repo now closely mirrors svn.perl.org
17:06 autrijus_ so if you'd like to sw to darcs now, that's entirely fine
17:06 autrijus_ :)
17:06 nothingmuch i work in darcs
17:06 nothingmuch when i edit
17:06 nothingmuch i have real patches
17:06 nothingmuch do you want them instead?
17:06 autrijus_ sure!
17:06 autrijus_ I work in both :)
17:07 autrijus_ so you can "darcs send" me stuff
17:07 nothingmuch ok, i thought you had bandwidth issues with that
17:07 nothingmuch a)ll, h)ead, -count, revision? [a] Interrupted.
17:07 nothingmuch =D
17:07 autrijus_ wtf?
17:07 nothingmuch ^C
17:07 autrijus_ ahh :D
17:08 seano PerlJam: wtf?  'co, add, commit, update'  What can be more natural?  If you put an infant in front of a machine and told it to hack, it will naturally start producing these utterances!
17:08 PerlJam seano: :-P
17:08 seano nothingmuch: svk's a chatty bastard, isn't it?
17:08 crysflame haha
17:08 crysflame seano++
17:08 crysflame c co, c a, c ci, c up
17:09 crysflame C CO C CA
17:09 seano "unpull" isn't even a word!
17:09 PerlJam you know what this channel doesn't need?  A bot that tells us when commits have been made to pugs.
17:09 nothingmuch autrijus: add an email file to http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/darcs/pugs
17:09 crysflame seano: but it leads directly to its meaning
17:09 integral PerlJam: configure CIA :-)
17:09 crysflame "reverse the pull"
17:09 * PerlJam wanders off to a graduate student's presentation
17:10 nothingmuch ok, patch for given.t also sent
17:10 seano I guess it's the push/pull vs. checkout/checkin thing that gets me.  People talk about the greatness of "distributed version control", but in my experience it's only been used in a centralized way.
17:10 nothingmuch now i'm finally resuming work on try.t
17:11 * nothingmuch uses darcs very distributedly...
17:11 autrijus_ seano: until... the main repo goes down
17:11 autrijus_ then, svk and darcs will survive
17:11 seano ...and centralized, "pull" is just a weird way to say "co"
17:11 nothingmuch public repos are on mine and others's websites
17:11 autrijus_ cvs and svn will go crashing down
17:11 nothingmuch but i normally share to other places
17:11 nothingmuch patch flow looks like a graph
17:11 seano autrijus_: then we have the current cock-up with me having to put 40M of SVK glop on my machine to keep up with the latest.
17:12 autrijus_ seano: 40M?
17:12 crysflame seano: hey, GHC is at least 10M
17:12 crysflame 60 if you go for source
17:12 autrijus_ 40M!?
17:12 seano That's what the installer says...
17:12 crysflame OS X installer disk space estimate?
17:12 autrijus_ I don't think the installer knows what it's talking about.
17:12 seano You're probably right.  Still, it's slow enough to make me think it's 40M.
17:12 autrijus_ but maybe it does. not using OSX currently :)
17:13 crysflame the OS X installer is totally on crack
17:13 seano But the point remains that our development model is completely centralized.
17:13 autrijus_ sure. the main selling point is not decentralization
17:13 seano (and yes, the disk space winge is completely bogus, since GHC is utterly ginormous).
17:13 autrijus_ it's offline commits.
17:13 nothingmuch well, distributed devel must still correlate somewhow
17:13 autrijus_ i.e. being able to view logs and commit thingswhen you have no bandwidth
17:13 autrijus_ or like me, with 2400bps.
17:14 crysflame oooh
17:14 crysflame nothingmuch: there's algorithms that govern the correlation effectively
17:14 crysflame iirc, darcs uses some variant of quantum math
17:14 seano ok.  the problem for which my solution is to keep both local and remove CVS repositories ;).
17:14 nothingmuch no, not that kind
17:14 seano crysflame: "it's ... science!"
17:14 autrijus_ seano: which is exactly what svk does, only automatically
17:14 autrijus_ I tried googling for fa*lu*gon* today and I was promptly disconnected.
17:15 crysflame seano: i like science. star trek helped me understand the alcubierre warp field.
17:15 nothingmuch i mean, you can't just put a patch somewhere, and google spiders it and commits it to everyone's repos
17:15 autrijus_ and google.com had not been working so far.
17:15 crysflame autrijus: errr, eh?
17:15 * autrijus_ is working without google :-/
17:15 nothingmuch you need, as a group of developers, to decide what is the place stuff goes to
17:15 crysflame nothingmuch: that place can be many places
17:15 nothingmuch with distributed VCS this place can change more easily
17:15 nothingmuch and that place can be more than one
17:15 crysflame autrijus: /m phenny .g foo
17:15 nothingmuch but you can
17:16 nothingmuch t control revisions without sharing somewhere
17:16 nothingmuch the central paradgim was so successful not because it's easier or something
17:16 nothingmuch it was just the obvious choice since no need for an altrnative was evident
17:17 crysflame you know, i've worked out the plans in my head for an internet worm that uses google and slashdot comments and steganography to update itself
17:17 crysflame so distributed vcs over the net doesn't actually scare me so much
17:17 nothingmuch a p2p virus with a packaging format will probably be the end of microsoft
17:17 metaperl_ has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:17 nothingmuch each virus comes with an initial public key
17:17 nothingmuch and new modules are signed
17:18 nothingmuch so the virus can't be made to kill itself
17:18 crysflame metasploit + web spider + stego
17:18 crysflame you got it
17:18 nothingmuch then exploits are just added over time
17:18 nothingmuch and you have a platform that spreads
17:18 crysflame stir in a bit of code yellow, and you have 12 minutes to total infection of all public boxes for each new exploit
17:18 nothingmuch then you run folding@home on it
17:18 autrijus_ yay. push() is now a proper binop.
17:18 nothingmuch exactly
17:18 crysflame screw that. climateprediction.net
17:18 crysflame the earth is going to kill us long before cancer does
17:19 nothingmuch i didn't know about that one =)
17:19 crysflame they're simulating climates over boinc
17:19 nothingmuch anywho, i think the real issue is that anyone with the brains to design this properly knows that the likelyhood of getting cought is a bit too big
17:20 nothingmuch another important issue is DoS modules
17:20 nothingmuch that bring down windowsupdate et al more intelligently than a hardcoded IP
17:20 nothingmuch starting at least with the DNS level
17:21 crysflame don't bring down windows update, man
17:21 crysflame the point is to get people to fix their stuff, not to hack it
17:21 nothingmuch i don't want to do it
17:21 crysflame well, let me rephrase
17:21 crysflame my suggestions are not intended to be used to harm
17:21 nothingmuch i'm just noting what will really be vicious
17:21 nothingmuch ah
17:21 crysflame you can cancel out the DoS module with a reporter module
17:21 nothingmuch my prophecy is dark
17:22 crysflame i harness dark for light
17:22 autrijus_ stevan: how's unTODO going?
17:22 nothingmuch i'm not going to harness, so ;-)
17:22 crysflame a distributed network of sploited boxes that call their upstream providers using whois.arin.net and say "Hi, I'm infected with an exploit.  Here's my user's information; please contact or disconnect me immediately. Thanks!"
17:22 stevan autrijus: just finshed lunch,.. should be done soon
17:23 stevan autrijus: I am getting some errors for push and unshift, should I ignore them for now?
17:24 autrijus_ I've just fixed them.
17:24 stevan ok
17:24 autrijus_ the fix broke grep and map
17:24 autrijus_ in a good way
17:24 stevan sending patch now
17:24 autrijus_ so I'm fixing that too
17:24 autrijus_ I'll roll yours and mine together
17:24 autrijus_ and commit
17:24 autrijus_ (and sleep)
17:25 autrijus_ in 10 hours I'll meet with ~1dozen people from perlchina
17:25 autrijus_ and spread pugs some more
17:25 stevan nice
17:25 nothingmuch good luck!
17:26 autrijus_ I sold haskell to hideki-san yesterday
17:26 autrijus_ I really hope he can find the time to play with haskell/pugs :)
17:26 autrijus_ hideki-san == super productive hacker
17:26 rjbs not like you? O_o
17:26 rjbs :)
17:26 nothingmuch rjbs++
17:27 autrijus_ uh, actually much more prolific than me
17:27 autrijus_ # http://www.freestandards.org/modules.php?name=Content2&amp;pa=showpage&amp;pid=20
17:27 marcusT has quit IRC ("Konversation terminated!")
17:27 rjbs so, approaching singularity? :)
17:27 autrijus_ in a few decades :)
17:28 rjbs impressive!  I put my hopes with yours.
17:28 autrijus_ with help from perl6
17:28 autrijus_ I hope.
17:28 crysflame singularity!
17:28 stevan autrijus: I sent another patch to you
17:28 rjbs productivity singularity: any project contemplated is immediately implemented
17:28 autrijus_ I thought that is already the case
17:28 stevan autrijus: this one is for the sub returning array ref issue I was talking about earlier
17:29 autrijus_ you just need to run some sleep()
17:29 autrijus_ stevan: okie
17:31 autrijus_ I just fixed grep and map.
17:31 crysflame rjbs: in the FUTURE
17:32 autrijus_ nothingmuch: have you send me anything?
17:32 autrijus_ havn't received your darcs send stuff
17:32 nothingmuch yes
17:32 nothingmuch i'll check mailserver logs
17:32 autrijus_ cool. autrijus at autrijus dot org
17:32 autrijus_ or preferably
17:33 autrijus_ send to p6c
17:33 nothingmuch ok, p6c it is
17:33 autrijus_ stevan:
17:33 nothingmuch set the _darcs email file
17:33 autrijus_ todo_ok(42 < 12 & 20 & 32, "test the all infix operator");
17:33 autrijus_ this looks _very_ suspicious
17:33 autrijus_ nothingmuch: how do I reset that again?
17:33 autrijus_ I mean, 42 is > all of 12,20,32
17:33 nothingmuch either echo "foo@bar" > _darcs/email
17:33 nothingmuch or _darcs/prefs/email
17:33 nothingmuch i forget
17:34 nothingmuch Mar  4 05:19:38 pasta postfix/smtp[28463]: C43D8382C2: to=<autrijus@autrijus.org>, relay=mail.autrijus.org[220.132.132.105], delay=12, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as BD7D5D4C78)
17:34 autrijus_ k, no worries, will figure it out
17:34 stevan autrijus: not my tests, I am not sure where that crept in
17:34 autrijus_ got it.
17:34 autrijus_ Fri Mar  4 05:14:52 IST 2005  Yuval Kogman <nothingmuch@woobling.org>
17:34 autrijus_  * Test that lone blocks with implicit semicolons actually execute
17:34 autrijus_ nothingmuch: looks correct?
17:34 nothingmuch yes
17:34 nothingmuch that is i
17:34 autrijus_ stevan: ok, I'll reverse the dir of <
17:34 autrijus_ super.
17:34 stevan junctions are metaperl's thing :)
17:34 nothingmuch it is even signed
17:35 nothingmuch but our gpg path is about 8 keys apart
17:35 autrijus_ I try to trust the code not the person :)
17:35 nothingmuch good point
17:37 metaperl_ has joined #perl6
17:37 autrijus_ shift.t is now all pass.
17:38 stevan nice!
17:38 autrijus_ may I request a nomenclature?
17:38 autrijus_ it's "Pugs" :)
17:39 autrijus_ PUGS only came as a retronym.
17:39 autrijus_ it's a minor issue anyway :)
17:40 seano But I'm sure it will spawn endless usenet discussion like "PERL" vs. "Perl" vs. "perl".
17:40 stevan autrijus: do you want a patch for un-TODOing shit?
17:40 metaperl_ how about REPL
17:41 seano I think we need more alterna-capitalizations.  "PuGS" -- "Purely Good Stuff".
17:41 metaperl_ relative expression-based parsing language
17:41 stevan s/shift/shit/
17:42 seano stevan: shit.t passed?
17:42 autrijus_ ...
17:42 stevan seano: that has been renamed to movement.t
17:42 autrijus_ stevan: no, I unTODOed them myself
17:42 autrijus_ comitting
17:42 autrijus_ (with yours as well)
17:42 stevan cool
17:42 * seano giggles
17:43 autrijus_ * unTODO from stevan; fixed grep/map/push/unshift parsing so they are properly binOp now; push() and unshift() now really distinguishesthe inv from the args
17:43 autrijus_ r556. enjoy!
17:43 autrijus_ now, journal time and finally sleep :)
17:43 Limbic_Region night night autrijus_
17:43 nothingmuch wait wait!
17:43 nothingmuch try.t in 5 mins
17:43 * autrijus_ waits...
17:44 autrijus_ sure.
17:44 autrijus_ send it before I finish writing the journal :)
17:45 nothingmuch hmm
17:46 nothingmuch how would i say isa_ok in Test?
17:46 nothingmuch patch Test?
17:46 stevan nothingmuch: I usually do is(ref($x), '..."
17:46 nothingmuch or ignore it for now due to lack of object support?
17:47 autrijus_ just write isa_ok using ref()
17:47 autrijus_ I think. or punt and use todo_
17:47 nothingmuch delayed
17:47 nothingmuch is the right place for try t/op/try?
17:48 nothingmuch i'm not sure wither it takes an block and tries it (hence op)
17:48 nothingmuch or if it's a control structure
17:48 nothingmuch conceptually
17:48 autrijus_ wow, one week passed durgin 6.0.9 and now
17:48 autrijus_ I can hardly feel it
17:48 autrijus_ t/base/try perhaps
17:48 autrijus_ s/perhaps/definitely/
17:48 nothingmuch ok
17:48 autrijus_ I guess it's time for 6.0.10.
17:49 autrijus_ tomorrow then.
17:49 * autrijus_ tries to keep up with weekly releases
17:49 nothingmuch hmm
17:50 autrijus_ there's simply too much changes in one week. :-/
17:50 autrijus_ but I probably can't afford to do 2 release per week.
17:50 autrijus_ so 1 week per release sounds right
17:50 stevan autrijus: we can split up the responsility maybe
17:50 nothingmuch oh, i forgot $! has trouble parsing
17:51 autrijus_ stevan: that works; except it's not much work in prepping a release
17:51 stevan not much work, but does take time
17:51 autrijus_ true.
17:51 autrijus_ actually 80% of the work is on the ChangeLog.
17:51 autrijus_ I can easily handle the rest with tools
17:51 stevan yeah
17:51 autrijus_ so if you are willing to write a ChangeLog in the next 10 hours
17:52 autrijus_ then I'd be very very grateful :)
17:52 stevan autrijus: I am not sure all that you have done
17:52 autrijus_ that'd be a great gift for perlchina
17:52 autrijus_ I think just browse the logs and the diary
17:52 autrijus_ I usually simply use the diary as skeleton
17:52 stevan autrijus: ok, will do
17:52 autrijus_ and fill in details from the log
17:52 autrijus_ that's all info I was working with anyway
17:52 autrijus_ the majority of changes are now not done by me :-)
17:53 autrijus_ stevan++
17:53 autrijus_ stevan++
17:53 autrijus_ stevan++
17:53 * autrijus_ turns back to "Day 32: Breakneck speed!"
17:55 metaperl_ so what do I type to update from svn.perl.org
17:56 metaperl_ but we already defined a function
17:56 nothingmuch ok, patch for try.t sent to p6c
17:56 autrijus_ metaperl: "svn up"? "svk pull"
17:56 metaperl_ return = (\a -> (\s -> (s, a) ) )
17:56 metaperl_ oops
17:56 autrijus_ that sounds very monadic.
17:57 metaperl_ :) that is what I am studying
17:58 metaperl_ should the kwiki or pugscode contains some of this technical info?
17:58 stevan is diary the darcs term for svn log?
17:58 metaperl_ since we have 1 whole day wihtout openfoundery
17:58 nothingmuch darcs changes
17:58 nothingmuch ;-)
17:58 metaperl_ what is the whole cmdline to update from svn.perl.org? anyone know?
17:59 stevan nothingmuch: can you send me the list of all darcs changes since Feb 28th
17:59 stevan svn co http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk
18:00 nothingmuch reverse chrono order, si?
18:00 nothingmuch perlbot, nopaste?
18:00 perlbot Paste your code here and #perl will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/perl
18:00 metaperl_ I think that should go in the topic for the next day... dont you guys?
18:00 autrijus_ the darcs changes are duplicated in svn.perl.org. :)
18:00 autrijus_ metaperl: sure, feel free to set it
18:00 stevan autrijus: very cool,.. svk I assume
18:00 autrijus_ i.e. the svn log should be a superset.
18:01 Khisanth ... so pugs is now using 3 repos?! O_O
18:01 nothingmuch http://sial.org/pbot/7891
18:01 autrijus_ Khisanth: by neccessity not by choice!
18:01 nothingmuch why doesn't /invite pasteling
18:01 integral you need to be opped to invite pastling afaik
18:02 nothingmuch bummer
18:02 Khisanth http://sial.org/pbot/ instructions for inviting pasteling are on the bottom of that page :P
18:02 Khisanth could always ask thrig ...
18:02 autrijus_ nothingmuch: I changed email for darcs/pugs/
18:02 autrijus_ I think I did, anyway
18:02 nothingmuch yay!
18:03 autrijus_ verify it for me?
18:03 nothingmuch autrijus: give me a tiny task
18:03 Khisanth integral: well you just need some way to /invite probably :)
18:03 autrijus_ nothingmuch: do you have a cpan ID?
18:03 integral Khisanth: true ;-)
18:03 nothingmuch ~NUFFIN
18:03 autrijus_ good
18:03 autrijus_ so the task is adding yourself to AUTHORS
18:03 autrijus_ now implement it :)
18:04 nothingmuch ok
18:04 obra hah
18:04 nothingmuch ooh! i get to use conflict merging for the first time in real life, with darcs
18:05 * nothingmuch only faked cases before
18:05 metaperl_ changes topic to: Run Perl6 Now! | pugscode.org ('Overview', 'Journal') | pugs.kwiki.org | chan now logged: http://xrl.us/e98m | openfoundry down. svn co http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk
18:07 nothingmuch autrijus: try again
18:07 nothingmuch move email file to to the other logical place
18:08 luqui has joined #perl6
18:08 autrijus_ ok, try again?
18:08 autrijus_ greetings luqui-san!
18:09 luqui hello
18:09 luqui yay, the week is over
18:09 nothingmuch =(
18:09 stevan hey, should "unshift @unshift3, @val2;" flatten @val2?
18:09 luqui yes
18:09 stevan oops
18:09 nothingmuch this is odd
18:10 stevan autrijus: I am going to send you some test patches :)
18:10 nothingmuch ah!
18:10 nothingmuch now it works
18:10 luqui get_stuff ==> unshift @array
18:10 nothingmuch Creating patch to http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/darcs/pugs...
18:10 nothingmuch Found email to send to perl6-compiler@perl.org
18:11 autrijus_ woot.
18:11 autrijus_ stevan: go ahead :)
18:11 stevan autrijus: BTW the unshift issue is now just reversed
18:12 stevan instead of ",42", its printing "42,"
18:12 stevan so the undef is just the second element
18:12 stevan but you need to post your journal and sleep,.. so that is for another day :)
18:13 luqui is openfoundry down?
18:13 autrijus_ yup.
18:13 stevan luqui: yes
18:13 nothingmuch luqui - yes, see chat toppic
18:13 autrijus_ use svn.perl.org instead for the next 36 hours
18:13 luqui okay
18:13 nothingmuch tr/p/p/s
18:17 luqui that stupid "@a" bug still isn't gone
18:17 stevan luqui: which one is that?
18:17 luqui try:  my @a = (1,2,3);  say "@a";   vs.  say " @a"
18:18 luqui basically "@a" is acting like @a, not ~@a
18:18 autrijus_ huh?
18:18 autrijus_ I fixed it
18:18 stevan weird
18:18 luqui You said you did... and the patch looked like it should have
18:18 luqui but it's still broken
18:18 autrijus_ ah. I found it.
18:18 autrijus_ luqui++
18:19 nothingmuch should I test?
18:19 * stevan adds another bullet point to the change log
18:19 luqui oh yeah, we test things that are broken...
18:19 stevan nothingmuch: put it in t/op/string_interpolation.t
18:19 nothingmuch not 02atoms where other interps are?
18:20 luqui I just put them there because that's where other basic tring stuff is
18:20 stevan nothingmuch: the 0n.t are for synopsis stuff
18:20 luqui oh, okay
18:20 nothingmuch ah
18:20 stevan but the t/op/ tests are more specific
18:20 luqui didn't know that
18:20 metaperl_ thanks for fixing the junctions... now I can give a demo at our local perl mongers meeting next wednesday on them!
18:20 metaperl_ all the tests just passed
18:21 luqui we should move the other interpolation stuff from 02atoms into there too
18:21 stevan luqui: it really doesnt matter, but with the number of tests growing its easier to break them into smaller peices
18:21 nothingmuch huh?
18:21 luqui right
18:21 nothingmuch say "@a";
18:21 nothingmuch "123"
18:21 autrijus_ luqui: I fixed your bug now.
18:21 autrijus_ it now says "1 2 3"
18:21 autrijus_ committing
18:21 luqui nice.
18:21 luqui autrijus_++
18:22 luqui svn diff -r558:559
18:22 nothingmuch sent
18:22 luqui oh, that's pretty close to how I fixed it the first time
18:23 luqui except I threw a prefix:~ on the front of the whole thing
18:23 stevan what are we gonna do when autrijus is sleeping, we need a svn.perl.org commiter in here
18:23 luqui I am one
18:23 nothingmuch is("@a", ~@a, "Interpolation of array is in string context"); passes
18:23 stevan luqui++
18:24 autrijus_ woot.
18:24 nothingmuch without synching
18:24 autrijus_ luqui: yeah, prefix~ is wrong
18:24 autrijus_ it's not really wrong
18:24 luqui why?
18:24 autrijus_ but I don't like the reliance on the binding
18:24 autrijus_ because user may redefine it
18:24 luqui we're relying on ~""
18:24 autrijus_ and we should not use the userdefined one, I think
18:24 autrijus_ (I think)
18:24 luqui but interpolation is defined as concatenation
18:24 autrijus_ yeah, p5 currently uses binary ~ overloading too
18:25 autrijus_ but not unary ~
18:25 autrijus_ unary ~ has nothing to do with concat.
18:25 luqui yeah I think yours is a little more right
18:25 autrijus_ =)
18:25 autrijus_ sorry for being pedantic.
18:25 metaperl_ could you run examples/junctions/3.p6 please ?
18:25 theorbtwo has joined #perl6
18:25 metaperl_ i think it is returning true when it should not
18:25 metaperl_ the first case should not return true
18:25 autrijus_ only one at least 1 newval is less than oldvals
18:25 autrijus_ not two
18:25 autrijus_ it now works
18:25 autrijus_ as expected.
18:25 nothingmuch luqui: can you help me fail the test?
18:26 metaperl_ nothing in @newval1 is < @oldval
18:26 nothingmuch your example works for me
18:26 metaperl_ @newval1 = (15, 17,14);
18:26 luqui nothingmuch: hmm?
18:26 metaperl_ each of these values is greater than any in @oldval
18:26 luqui what rev are you at?
18:26 metaperl_ @oldval=(5,8,12);
18:26 luqui oh I know why
18:27 metaperl_ 559 revision
18:27 luqui Do sub foo (*@a) { return +@a }
18:27 luqui in 559 it is fixed
18:27 metaperl_ you want me to do that? what the hey does that mean?
18:27 metaperl_ :)
18:27 luqui and then ok(foo("@a") == 1)
18:27 metaperl_ luqui were you talking to me?
18:27 luqui no, to nothingmuch
18:28 luqui oh, I'm confusing who I'm talking to
18:28 metaperl_ what does the * infront the @a mean?
18:28 luqui flatten
18:28 autrijus_ ok, journal up. zzz
18:28 autrijus_ have fun, lambdacamels :)
18:28 luqui flatting context, rather
18:28 autrijus_ &
18:28 stevan night autrijus
18:28 metaperl_ night aut
18:28 luqui night
18:28 nothingmuch night
18:28 nothingmuch explain please, luqui
18:29 luqui if "@a" is identical to @a, then it should flatten into foo
18:29 luqui but ~@a won't
18:29 nothingmuch foo gets array items flattenned into @a, and then makes numeric context (== count)
18:29 nothingmuch oh
18:29 luqui right
18:29 luqui (we technically don't need the +)
18:29 luqui er, we should have it
18:29 nothingmuch that was a parse error
18:30 nothingmuch "@a" was passed as really @a?
18:30 luqui yeah?
18:30 luqui yeah
18:30 nothingmuch sorry, s/$/?/
18:30 nothingmuch i see, i get 3
18:30 nothingmuch synch will probably tell fix
18:31 luqui I wonder if we can do +"@a" == 3 to avert the sub call
18:31 autrijus_ has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0+/20050219]")
18:31 * nothingmuch waits for svn<=>darcs synch
18:31 metaperl_ ah heck, I dont have commit access on svn.perl.org
18:31 stevan metaperl: we have just been sending patches to p6c
18:32 metaperl_ canwe commit via darcs?
18:32 stevan no idea
18:32 stevan ask nothingmuch
18:33 luqui who is yuval?
18:33 stevan yuval == nothingmuch (AFAIK)
18:33 metaperl_ stevan you have a second to look at examples/junctions/3.p6
18:33 metaperl_ ?
18:34 stevan metaperl: junctions are not really my thing, so I am not sure I would know what I am looking at
18:35 metaperl_ let me give you a URL
18:35 stevan that works
18:35 metaperl_ http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/07/29/exegesis6.html?page=4
18:35 metaperl_ no, I dont htink it does
18:35 metaperl_ :)
18:35 metaperl_ I dont think the first if-then should say anything... it should fail
18:36 metaperl_ that Exegesis shows junctions quite nicely
18:36 metaperl_ brb
18:39 metaperl_ ok it's ok if you aren't interested. but I have to get this nailed down somehow
18:40 luqui nothingmuch: accidentally lost your string interpolation mail, but I committed the test that we worked out
18:40 nothingmuch i am yuval
18:40 luqui I heard :-)
18:41 nothingmuch sorry, i was cleaning up
18:41 nothingmuch ok, so what was committed?
18:41 nothingmuch i have a small patch, is("@a", ~@a)
18:41 nothingmuch that was sent
18:41 nothingmuch and i wrote is(foo("@a"), 1)
18:41 nothingmuch and now i'm waiting for autrijus's fix
18:41 nothingmuch to make sure it passes,
18:41 luqui It does
18:42 nothingmuch ok, so should i just commit that?
18:42 ingy hola
18:42 nothingmuch or did someone else already do that?
18:42 luqui it's already done
18:42 luqui I did
18:42 nothingmuch wünderbar
18:43 metaperl_ ingy are you into junctions at all?
18:43 luqui I can help you with your example
18:44 metaperl_ ok
18:44 metaperl_ it's examples/junctions/3.p6
18:44 coaster has joined #perl6
18:44 metaperl_ in release 559
18:44 luqui I'm at 561
18:44 metaperl_ oh ok
18:44 luqui should be fine right?
18:45 * metaperl_ updates
18:45 metaperl_ im at 561
18:45 metaperl_ so anyway the first if-then should not fire
18:45 luqui it doesn't
18:45 ingy metaperl_: I used a junction in a test I wrote for COnfig
18:45 ingy but I'm no expert
18:45 metaperl_ no value in @newval1 is less than the values in @oldval1
18:45 ingy far from it actually
18:46 * metaperl_ checks the script again
18:46 metaperl_ ingy: ok thanks anyway
18:46 ingy sure
18:46 luqui you should mark the two "say"s so you know which one happened
18:46 metaperl_ luqui it prints twice
18:46 luqui really?
18:46 luqui not for me
18:46 metaperl_ i did change the say()s but couldnt commit
18:46 luqui what does svn stat for you say?
18:47 metaperl_ more relevant is what does pugs -v say
18:47 * metaperl_ checks pugs -v
18:47 metaperl_ old pugs
18:47 luqui ahh... that'll do it
18:47 metaperl_ make install did not overwrite with new build
18:47 luqui weird
18:47 luqui (oh, you can install it?  neat, I'm going to do that)
18:48 metaperl_ ok thanks
18:48 luqui committed 3.p6 with changed says
18:48 metaperl_ perl Makefile.PL PREFIX=~/perl; make ; make test; make install
18:48 luqui off to class
18:48 metaperl_ your PREFIX may vary or be non-existent
18:48 metaperl_ cya
18:48 metaperl_ thanks
18:49 luqui back in three hours
18:49 luqui has quit IRC ("leaving")
18:51 nothingmuch hmm
18:51 nothingmuch for (1, 2, 3, 4) -> $odd, $even is not there yet
18:52 nothingmuch is this a bug? or does it depend on zip in terms of implementation somehow
18:52 stevan nothingmuch: I think that needs to have a zip() in there
18:52 nothingmuch well, unzip, actually
18:55 nothingmuch will zip((1, 2, 3), (5, 6, 7)) work with that exact syntax?
18:55 stevan I think, but I am no expert
18:55 nothingmuch i mean, in perl6 () is not flat, like in perl 5, right?
18:55 nothingmuch (list) in list context
18:56 stevan nothingmuch: best to ask luqui for the real answer ;)
18:56 nothingmuch who is luqui, btw?
18:57 stevan Luke palmer
18:57 nothingmuch ah
18:58 stevan zh-cn is chinese and zh-tw is taiwanese right?
18:59 malaire has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0/20041107]")
18:59 PerlJam nothingmuch: yes, your zip should work
18:59 nothingmuch good
19:08 nothingmuch compare:
19:08 nothingmuch eval 'my $t; $t = (1 == 1) ?? 1 :: 0; $t';
19:08 nothingmuch eval 'my $t = (1 == 1) ?? 1 :: 0; $t';
19:08 nothingmuch hmm
19:08 nothingmuch that's not it
19:08 nothingmuch say eval 'my $t; $t = (1 == 1) ?? "true" :: "false"; $t';
19:08 nothingmuch say eval 'my $t = (1 == 1) ?? "true" :: "false"; $t';
19:09 nothingmuch first is 1, second is "true"
19:09 wolverian autrijus: your perl.com link on your journal is broken; missing http://
19:09 nothingmuch is the first a bug?
19:09 stevan wolverian: he is asleep
19:10 theorbtwo has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
19:10 PerlJam nothingmuch: $t should be "true" in both cases.
19:10 nothingmuch where would you test this?
19:11 stevan nothingmuch: this is weird
19:11 hlen_ has joined #perl6
19:11 nothingmuch given.t has a false todo ok because of this
19:12 hlen_ what does my @array = @anotherarray; do in perl6? does @array become a list with a single element, in this case the reference to @anotherarray?
19:12 nothingmuch i made a patch that uses if { } else { if {} else {} } instead
19:12 stevan nothingmuch: I saw that false todo
19:12 hlen_ s/a list/an array/
19:12 nothingmuch i have a patch to fix it, but i'm considering not submitting it
19:12 nothingmuch due to the fact that it isn't my fault
19:12 stevan hlen: I believe it copies @anotherarray into @array
19:13 PerlJam hlen: no. The intuitive thing happens.
19:13 hlen_ PerlJam, copying?
19:13 stevan nothingmuch: if a bug in pugs distorts the test results, we should adjust the test to avoid the bug
19:13 stevan unless of course we are testing for the bug
19:13 nothingmuch ok
19:14 nothingmuch well, we'll be testing for the bug as soon as i figure out a proper place to test that bug
19:14 stevan maybe we need a ??::.t file?
19:14 stevan in t/op/
19:14 nothingmuch i think this is rather with my
19:14 integral I thought there was a cond.t already?
19:14 nothingmuch or assignment in general
19:15 stevan nothingmuch: can you reproduce it with other operators?
19:15 stevan my guess is that you are getting the boolean back
19:15 nothingmuch i don't really know what's going on, but i'll try
19:16 stevan pugs -e 'my $t; $t = (1 == 1) ?? "true" :: "false"; say ref($t)'
19:16 stevan try that
19:16 stevan you are getting the Bool back
19:16 stevan ref() is your friend :)
19:16 nothingmuch good to know
19:16 stevan pugs -e 'my $t = (1 == 1) ?? "true" :: "false"; say ref($t)'
19:16 stevan that prints Str
19:16 stevan the other Bool
19:16 stevan so I am guessing that it is a ??:: bug
19:17 nothingmuch so is "$t = " without the my enforcing boolean context?
19:17 autrijus just fwi: darcs sync has been restarted now.
19:17 autrijus back to sleep &
19:17 nothingmuch heh
19:17 nothingmuch had a nightmare?
19:17 stevan nothingmuch: I am not sure what you are asking
19:17 stevan autrijus is sleep syncing
19:19 PerlJam stevan: why would you guess it's a ??:: bug?  It seems to me that the difference is between initialization and assignment.
19:20 stevan PerlJam: my thought is that its the ret val of ??::
19:20 stevan but I am just guessing :)
19:20 nothingmuch http://sial.org/pbot/7894
19:21 nothingmuch i think this is a bug in parsing
19:21 nothingmuch because it doesn't get boolianized "false" which is true
19:21 stevan nothingmuch: how so?
19:21 nothingmuch of assignments
19:21 qmole i don't understand why it's printing 1 anyway
19:22 stevan qmole: that is how bool::true is printed
19:22 stevan nothingmuch: so do you want to put it in my.t? or ??::.t
19:22 PerlJam qmole: because it's parsing as ($t = (1==1)) ?? "true" :: "false" so $t gets the value of the conditional
19:22 nothingmuch but rather the (1==0) or (1==1)
19:22 nothingmuch look closely at that past
19:22 nothingmuch e
19:22 nothingmuch qmole - that's a bug
19:22 nothingmuch now were trying to find out where
19:22 nothingmuch i'd put it in my.t
19:23 stevan nothingmuch: ok I will paste it in, I have a big patch building already
19:23 nothingmuch great
19:23 qmole aha
19:25 nothingmuch wow, darcs' conflict resolution is so much fun when it's for real
19:26 crysflame heh
19:26 crysflame that is not a reaction i have ever had to cvs
19:26 crysflame but boy howdy does p4 merge work well with P4MERGE=FileMerge.app
19:26 nothingmuch i don't get much merge errors at work when we use p4
19:26 Khisanth hmm
19:27 nothingmuch even though i'm the integrator and build monkey
19:27 Khisanth nothingmuch: your pastes keep showing up in #perl :)
19:27 nothingmuch oh shit!
19:27 nothingmuch now i get it
19:27 * nothingmuch blushes
19:29 nothingmuch stevan
19:29 nothingmuch my $t works ok
19:29 nothingmuch it's assignment without my that is broken
19:29 nothingmuch it doesn't belong in my.t
19:29 hlen_ are the pipe operators already implemented?
19:29 nothingmuch ==> ?
19:29 PerlJam you mean <== and ==> ?
19:29 hlen_ yes
19:29 nothingmuch no
19:30 hlen_ ok =\
19:30 hlen_ i'm going to love those
19:31 stevan nothingmuch: where should we put it them if not my.t
19:31 nothingmuch i think they are, next to stacking comparisons (1 < 2 < 3) one of the best language features
19:31 nothingmuch i'll create t/op/assign.t
19:31 nothingmuch i think
19:31 nothingmuch well i did, i just didn't commit yet
19:31 stevan nothingmuch: the my.t test has a number of test where a my var is assigned to
19:31 stevan mostly to test its scoping though
19:32 stevan can we duplicate this issue with our?
19:32 nothingmuch right
19:32 nothingmuch my point is unrelated though
19:32 nothingmuch my $t works ok
19:32 nothingmuch it's the already declared var assignment that's causing trouble
19:32 stevan pugs -e 'our $t; $t = (1 == 1) ?? "true" :: "false"; say ref($t)'
19:32 stevan Bool
19:32 stevan yup
19:33 stevan nothingmuch: i agree, create that asssign.t
19:33 * nothingmuch oddly finds himself cw'ing one char integers in vim, instead of r'ing them, due to the fact that ints are not "strings"...
19:35 rjbs nothingmuch: relax your typing system ;)
19:36 nothingmuch well, appearantly my head has a bad relaxed type system optimisation thing
19:36 nothingmuch my head takes a string, integerizes it, replaces it entirely with an integer, and stringifies that
19:36 nothingmuch just because looks_like_number($string) is true
19:37 seano has quit IRC ("curse you productivity-sucking demons.")
19:38 nothingmuch maybe it's a percedence thing
19:38 nothingmuch my $var = is higher percedence than $var =
19:38 nwc10 has joined #perl6
19:38 nothingmuch sorry, lower
19:38 stevan nothingmuch: maybe
19:38 nothingmuch i will try to investigate, but i may require hand holding
19:40 pjcj Hello Nicholas
19:40 qmole it looks like it
19:40 nothingmuch hmm
19:40 nwc10 Hello
19:41 nothingmuch ok, given my $e = ($t = (1 == 1) ?? "true" :: "false") e is not defined
19:41 qmole oh
19:41 nothingmuch i suspected the expr got parsed as (($t = (1 == 1)) ?? "true" :: "false")
19:41 nothingmuch and thus $t would be 1, and $e would be "true"
19:41 nothingmuch but that's not the case
19:41 stevan nothingmuch: have you looked at the parse tree?
19:42 qmole i'd also expect "true" there
19:42 nothingmuch should i paste it?
19:42 stevan paste what?
19:43 nothingmuch the parse tree
19:43 stevan my $t; my $e = ($t = (1 == 1) ?? "true" :: "false"); wont even parse for me
19:43 nothingmuch http://sial.org/pbot/7896
19:43 nothingmuch oh, that's why the eval didn't work
19:43 nothingmuch that's another, unrelated parse bug
19:43 nothingmuch look at the top of t/03operators.t
19:44 nothingmuch i think percedence is right
19:44 nothingmuch if ($t = (1 == 1)) { "true" } else { "false" } is what i make of it
19:44 nothingmuch or maybe not
19:44 edgewalk1r is now known as edgewalker
19:45 nothingmuch i don't know how to read the parse tree
19:45 nothingmuch { Syn op { opnds } }, right?
19:45 nothingmuch if that's the case, than the "true" and "false" are under the assignment tree
19:45 stevan nothingmuch: I just guess on stuff like that
19:46 nothingmuch the "significant" part of either version's (my $t; $t =  or my $t = ) parse tree seems rather similar
19:47 nothingmuch oh, i get it now
19:47 nothingmuch with my $t = we have {Var "$t";
19:47 nothingmuch                      Syn "if"
19:47 nothingmuch in terms of order
19:47 nothingmuch in the other if comes first, and { Var $t is discussed later on
19:48 nothingmuch i conclude that it is a percedence issue
19:49 stevan look at the bottom of the tree output
19:49 qmole ah
19:49 stevan Var "$t"
19:49 stevan ***  Evl: Syn "="
19:49 stevan {Var "$t";
19:49 stevan App "&infix:==" (1,
19:49 stevan                  1)}
19:49 stevan ***   Evl: App "&infix:==" (1,
19:49 stevan                 1)
19:49 stevan ***   Ret: bool::true
19:49 stevan ***  Ret: bool::true
19:49 stevan ***  Evl: App "&infix:~" ('true',
19:49 stevan                '')
19:49 stevan ***  Ret: 'true'
19:49 stevan *** Ret: bool::true
19:49 stevan bool::true
19:49 stevan versus
19:49 stevan Var "$t"
19:49 nothingmuch that's the exec tree, not the parse tree, right?
19:49 stevan ***  Evl: Syn "if"
19:49 stevan {App "&infix:==" (1,
19:49 nothingmuch i did '.my $t; $t = (1 == 1) ?? "true" :: "false"; $t.
19:49 stevan                  1);
19:49 stevan Syn "cxt"
19:49 stevan {'Str';
19:49 stevan  App "&infix:~" ('true',
19:49 stevan                  '')};
19:49 nnunley That's an AST.
19:49 stevan Syn "cxt"
19:50 stevan {'Str';
19:50 stevan  App "&infix:~" ('false',
19:50 stevan                  '')}}
19:50 stevan ***   Evl: App "&infix:==" (1,
19:50 stevan                 1)
19:50 stevan ***   Ret: bool::true
19:50 stevan ***   Evl: App "&infix:~" ('true',
19:50 stevan                '')
19:50 stevan ***   Ret: 'true'
19:50 stevan ***  Ret: 'true'
19:50 stevan *** Ret: 'true'
19:50 stevan 'true'
19:50 stevan what does the '.' do?
19:50 stevan oh I see
19:50 nothingmuch parse tree without execution, appearantly
19:50 stevan neat, i didnt know that
19:50 stevan yeah that is the exec tree
19:50 nothingmuch uh, less neat
19:51 nothingmuch exec tree is both
19:51 stevan nothingmuch: it seems to me that my $t; $t =
19:51 stevan is actually getting the value of (1 == 1)
19:51 nothingmuch yes, that tests show that
19:51 stevan and not the valyue of (1 == 1) ?? 'true' :: 'false'
19:52 nothingmuch got '1' expected "true", got '' expected "false"
19:52 stevan but I think that is how it is executing it too
19:52 nothingmuch uhuh
19:54 stevan I agree, this is a parsing bug
19:54 stevan where are you going to put the test?
19:54 nothingmuch i put it in t/assign.t
19:54 nothingmuch even if it's a parse bug it's a parse bug about assignment
19:54 stevan t/op/ or t/
19:55 nothingmuch t/op/assign.t, sorry
19:55 stevan ok, sounds good to me
19:55 stevan thats an ugly one :)
19:55 nothingmuch where is percedence defined?
19:55 nothingmuch Prim.hs?
19:56 stevan yeah I think,.. all the way at the bottom
19:56 nothingmuch what is 'my',
19:56 nothingmuch from a parser POV?
19:56 stevan no idea
19:57 nothingmuch grep -r 'my' src/
19:58 nothingmuch src/Posix.hs:    In my own land, in the country of Fangorn,
19:58 nothingmuch =(
19:58 qmole heh
19:58 nnunley Too many elves.
19:58 nothingmuch isn't that Treeberad himself?
19:59 nothingmuch i thought only ents and tree things lived in Fangorn
19:59 nothingmuch stevan - how lazy is pugs?
20:00 nothingmuch i conclude from the exec tree that in $t = (1 == 1 ) ?? the ?? :: is not even evaluated
20:01 stevan yeah that sounds right
20:01 stevan nothingmuch: I am not sure how lazy it is
20:02 nothingmuch it sort of makes sense
20:02 nothingmuch because it's in void context
20:02 nothingmuch and the cond /has/ been evaluated
20:04 nothingmuch ok, i shoved "=" way down to the end of Prim.hs
20:04 nothingmuch assuming that percedence has to do with the place in the file
20:04 nothingmuch and it still doesn't pass
20:05 qmole hmm
20:06 qmole i'd have thought adding extra parens would have worked if it was a precedence issue
20:06 nothingmuch theoretically it does, qmole
20:06 stevan qmole: the whole parens-controlling-precendence thing is not quite there yet (AFAIK)
20:06 nothingmuch but we have another bug with that
20:06 qmole ah
20:07 nwc10 has left
20:07 nothingmuch at the top of t/03operator.t there's a test for that, with ?? ::, which doesn't pass
20:07 xerox has joined #perl6
20:07 * qmole looks
20:11 hlen_ has quit IRC ("Client exiting")
20:13 qmole hmm
20:13 qmole the second one you mean? it passes here
20:13 nothingmuch todo_is(eval '(($str3 eq $str4) ?? 1 :: 2)', 1, "?? :: in parens");
20:14 nothingmuch line 26
20:15 nothingmuch anyway, i am going to get drunk till i can dance
20:15 nothingmuch and then i'm going to dance
20:15 qmole cool
20:17 qmole that's not my line 26 :(
20:28 autrijus has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:29 stevan nothingmuch: have fun
20:29 stevan I am outta here as well, have a good weekend all
20:31 jdv79 i'm doing some work...and I'm not a WOMAN!
20:32 Yaakov has joined #perl6
20:33 Yaakov Feh.
20:33 Yaakov has left
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20:39 * nothingmuch looks for the parse bug some while he dries up
20:40 b6s has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:43 jdv79 has joined #perl6
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21:00 * nothingmuch considers a chrooted pugs-smoke repo
21:00 nothingmuch where anyone can commit
21:00 nothingmuch if the patch passes tests
21:01 nothingmuch well, my liver is asking for it. Ciao
21:01 nothingmuch has left
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21:55 seano has left " "
22:00 jdv79 Will we have Python via PUGS? :)
22:03 buu Pugs will eat python.
22:07 mauke has joined #perl6
22:07 qmole what's the up-to-date repository now?
22:15 Khisanth jdv79: well if you consider "Perl6::Pugs - A Perl6 Implementation" getting python out of it would be an extremely odd twist
22:16 jdv79 better leave that task up to parrot then
22:19 PerlJam jdv79: python implemented in haskell would be called "pygs"  :)
22:19 Khisanth swines
22:23 sorje PerlJam, is that the next target? ;-)
22:28 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
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22:44 crysflame python on parrot on pugs
22:45 PerlJam a snake wrapped around a bird perched on a dog
22:45 PerlJam That's some interesting imagery
22:45 jdv79 how bout a png of it;)
22:45 crysflame do it! do it now!
22:46 PerlJam Well, a more accurate image would have a snake and a dog fighting on the back of really large parrot.
22:47 PerlJam (assuming pugs ever produces parrot asm)
23:07 crysflame heh
23:07 crysflame perl6 is a mongrel
23:11 iblechbot_ has quit IRC (Client Quit)
23:15 |hugues has quit IRC ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
23:17 buu PerlJam: How about a giant parrot holding a snake in it's beak and a dog in it's claws?
23:17 qmole lol
23:23 revdiablo has joined #perl6
23:29 Limbic_Region welcome revdiablo - first time here?
23:29 revdiablo yes, just wanted to see what goes on.
23:29 Limbic_Region bit quiet this time of night
23:30 revdiablo I'll idle for a few days.
23:33 jens_ has quit IRC ("<Moe> Deutschland und Tourismus? Eher kriegt Nordkorea einen ständigen Sitz im Sicherheitsrat")
23:39 buu revdiablo: Not much
23:39 Khisanth hmm
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