Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-03-06

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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02:21 metaperl erxz_paste where?
02:22 metaperl perlbot paste?
02:22 perlbot Paste your code and #perl will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/perl http://dragon.cbi.tamucc.edu:8080 http://erxz.com/pb
02:22 erxz_paste "metaperl" at 4.30.46.9 pasted "help needed creating compatible subroutine" (16 lines) at http://erxz.com/pb/507
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03:02 offby1 Should I be surprised if code from the Synopses doesn't work in pugs 6.0.9?  i.e.  ``sub numcmp ($x, $y) {return $x <=> $y;}
03:02 offby1 print numcmp (y=>3, x=>4), "\n";'' yields ``No compatible subroutine found: &y''.  That just means some bits aren't yet implemented ... right?
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03:23 buu offby1: Probably.
03:23 offby1 it's brand-new, so ...
03:23 buu offby1: If the synopsis's don't work, it's a bug in pugs.
03:24 * offby1 wonders if he overlooked a mention of a bug list
03:24 buu offby1: That syntax doesn't look correct
03:25 wolverian pugs apparently doesn't have => yet
03:26 offby1 buu: let me see if I can find the page from which I copied it.
03:27 offby1 buu: http://dev.perl.org/perl6/synopsis/S06.html, about one-quarter of the way down
03:29 buu Well
03:29 buu if it doesn't work in pugs
03:29 buu it's a bug
03:29 buu Try adding a test case
03:29 offby1 dunno how yet
03:30 buu look in t/
03:30 offby1 yup
03:31 buu Then email it to someone with commit privs
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03:32 offby1 oops
03:33 buu Eww, emacs
03:33 offby1 :-)
03:34 jdv79 emacs rules
03:34 offby1 buu: how could you tell?
03:34 buu offby1: Your quit message.
03:35 offby1 ah
03:35 offby1 funny, I accidentally killed the buffer; I'm surprised (and impressed) that the IRC client was graceful enough to send the quit message.
03:37 offby1 (and if buu doesn't know what I'm talking about; that's OK; it's emacs-speak :-)
03:37 buu I understand your heathen lingo.
03:37 offby1 hey, I use vim too.
03:38 offby1 I'm what you call "ecumenical".
03:38 buu heh
03:40 ingy hola
03:41 buu HALLO INGY
03:41 buu You dead yet?
03:41 jdv79 POD hater
03:41 ingy I lived!
03:41 offby1 wow, pugs is certainly active -- half a dozen commits today.  And due to the beauty of svk, I can read the commit logs even though the main subversion server is down.
03:41 * offby1 states the obvious once again
03:41 ingy is the svn server back up?
03:41 buu ingy: svn.perl is
03:41 offby1 svn.perl.org is up.
03:42 jdv79 that one's always up isn't it?
03:42 jdv79 openfoundry is the funky one i think
03:42 ingy is pugs mirrored there?
03:42 buu jdv79: It's open as much as openfoundry is
03:42 buu Whcih is to say, like 99.9% of the time
03:42 offby1 openfoundry is at least the one that's not up now.
03:42 buu Until they have a 3 day outage =/
03:42 jdv79 yup
03:42 offby1 at least they were nice enough to put up a placeholder page (in two languages, no less.)
03:43 ingy tonight I get to hack pugs
03:43 ingy I'm excited
03:43 buu ingy: You can still be excited?
03:44 ingy I'm definitely tired
03:44 ingy but I did pretty good in the race
03:44 ingy so that counts for something
03:45 ingy jdv79: I don't hate POD
03:45 buu ingy: What place?
03:47 ingy I did good because it was a very fast 72 mile race and I finished ~30th of ~120
03:47 ingy which is not good
03:47 jdv79 72 mi of what?
03:47 ingy but I am also the fattest guy out there
03:47 jdv79 on/in what?
03:47 ingy and I'm 40+ yrs old
03:47 offby1 ingy: no.
03:48 offby1 nobody's THAT old.
03:48 * offby1 is N years old, for large values of N.
03:48 ingy jdv79: lance racing ;)
03:48 metaperl igy did you quit working at activestate? why?
03:49 ingy because the boss was a Dick!
03:49 ingy hahaha
03:49 jdv79 i don't like them
03:49 offby1 OK, I've written the simplest, dumbest failing test in the world.  It's so small that I could paste it here.  Should I just send it to a dev list?  Paste it?  Do "svn add" and pray for commit access :-) ?
03:49 offby1 I'm so dedicated that I even made a symlink to /usr/bin/pugs
03:50 jdv79 lance?
03:50 ingy armstrong
03:50 jdv79 what bike do you have?
03:51 ingy trek
03:51 jdv79 i got a cannondale
03:51 offby1 dinner time
03:51 ingy Somebody just emailed me: Many thanks for your greath code,
03:51 jdv79 no races though, just local MS tours and such
03:51 ingy cool
03:52 ingy racing is a thankless sport
03:52 jdv79 you get personal satisfaction though, right?
03:52 ingy the best you can hope for is to get in pretty good shape
03:52 ingy but I'm 30lbs over race weight
03:52 metaperl ingy, what happened to the Spoon docs? I dont see any in the distro anymore: http://cpan.uwinnipeg.ca/dist/Spoon
03:53 ingy I get more satisfaction from hacking for sure
03:53 jdv79 haha
03:53 ingy but racing keeps me young
03:53 ingy metaperl: there are none :(
03:53 metaperl I just wanted to read the docs. I am a CGI::Prototype fan personally
03:53 jdv79 its definitely not as painful
03:53 metaperl there used to be
03:53 ingy ?
03:53 metaperl you talked about how you and Dave used Spoon at Socialtext
03:53 metaperl in the docs
03:54 metaperl oh maybe taht was spiffy
03:54 ingy Spiffy has docs
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03:54 ingy docs for Spoon is a premature optimization
03:54 ingy ;)
03:55 ingy I want to make a Kwiki variant where people can document modules for other authors
03:55 metaperl well I hope openfoundry opens up early tomorrow
03:55 ingy I was going to use POD but who knows now
03:55 metaperl and I hope I can commit my perlmongers talk on junctions tomorrow
03:56 ingy is there another place to get pugs source?
03:56 metaperl the topic says...
03:56 ingy ohhhh
03:56 metaperl I think people are sending patches to p6c
03:56 metaperl and luqui applies them
03:56 buu ingy: What do you mean 'document modules for other authors' ?
03:56 metaperl but I have whole new files to add
03:57 ingy buu: I'll explain it later
03:57 ingy I need a shower, then hack hack hack
03:57 jdv79 shower sounds good
04:00 ingy =)
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04:20 autrijus hi. I'm @ hongkong airport without much battery :)
04:21 autrijus but I did manage to commit the fix for "@a" and "@a[]" parsing raised yesterday here, as well as many other fixes. (r581)
04:21 autrijus should be back to taipei in 3~4 hrs.
04:22 obra hi autrijus
04:22 autrijus greetings obra san. how's life?
04:22 obra today, I cleaned out my homedirs and put more of my life under svk control
04:22 obra not very exciting, but useful
04:23 autrijus verily. I did that when my hd was not broken
04:23 obra today was a quiet day when I should have been hacking
04:23 autrijus but evidently I should push it up somewhere else, instead of letting it stay in the same disk.
04:23 autrijus not in the hacking mood? :)
04:23 obra yep. I have .subversion-repository on my colo box
04:23 obra never managed to get myself to the right mental state
04:23 obra too many open loops
04:24 autrijus caffeine? ritalin? sleep?
04:24 obra I also need to find good things for me and kaia to do when we're in .tw
04:24 obra had plenty of sleep. my shoulders are too tense. and I've not had good blocks of time
04:24 autrijus ah. virtualtourist may or may not help there.
04:24 autrijus havn't seen their taiwan section.
04:24 obra *nod*
04:25 obra I should also try wikitravel/wikipedia
04:25 autrijus there is a wikitravel?
04:25 autrijus wow there is.
04:26 obra it was "ok" for geneva
04:26 autrijus nod. battery soon below 5%. may disconnect any time from this screen.
04:26 autrijus see you in a few hours :)
04:26 obra safe flight
04:26 buu Bye!
04:27 obra autrijus, sync the bps repo and look at clkao's new toys
04:27 ingy autrijus: hihi
04:27 obra QUEBEC branch
04:27 obra customizable homepage
04:27 autrijus nice!
04:28 obra also, new preferences API
04:28 autrijus lots of interesting developments indeed
04:28 obra also, more tests
04:28 ingy ritalin++
04:28 obra customers++
04:28 * autrijus needs to learn to write perl5 again
04:28 obra if so, then we should talk when you're in taiwan
04:28 autrijus sure :)
04:28 obra I may even have interesting RT haxx0ring.
04:28 * autrijus out of battery &
04:29 ingy hi obra
04:29 ingy ready for taipei?
04:29 obra heya ingy
04:29 obra hahahahahahah.
04:29 ingy ?
04:29 buu ingy: So should: *foo*b; just render as text: *foo*b; ?
04:29 obra no talk written, no vacation plans done, lots of work here to finish first
04:29 ingy buu: yes
04:29 buu hrm
04:30 ingy I will write my talk in taipei
04:30 ingy definitely
04:30 obra I may as well
04:30 ingy hi autrijus
04:30 buu ingy: I think he's gone
04:30 obra half my talk will be "the future of RT" and the other half will be a design session. "let's add a feature to RT"
04:31 obra with a progress report the next day
04:31 ingy cool
04:33 buu ingy: Eh, which characters can precede an opening * again?
04:34 buu Just white space?
04:34 ingy {
04:34 ingy sorry...
04:34 ingy / {
04:35 buu Er, a slash can come before it?
04:35 ingy obviously you can say /*this*/
04:35 buu ah right
04:36 ingy other than that, must be a space I think
04:36 ingy the ending tag is different
04:36 buu Right.
04:36 ingy hmmm, maybe ( too
04:36 buu Hmph.
04:37 ingy we'll need to play with this to get it right
04:37 ingy write tests and review them for clarity
04:37 buu I've got tests
04:38 buu 84 so far =]
04:38 ingy nice. I'd like to see them
04:38 erxz_paste "buu" at 24.206.236.187 pasted "kwid.t" (48 lines) at http://erxz.com/pb/508
04:39 erxz_paste "buu" at 24.206.236.187 pasted "test.kwid" (40 lines) at http://erxz.com/pb/509
04:39 buu I'm trying to make *bar*bar* parse as text
04:40 ingy I think that is right
04:41 ingy definitely /etc/apache/ should be text
04:41 buu Yeah
04:41 ingy one would think
04:41 buu I agree.. it just makes it fun to parse
04:41 ingy yeah
04:43 ingy ok must get off irc
04:43 ingy &
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05:54 crysflame .
05:59 buu death
06:06 wolverian satan.
06:06 buu Heh, incarnations of immortality++
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06:35 Aankhen`` Is there any property or something similar in Perl 6 that allows you to restrict a hash to fixed set of keys?
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06:41 buu Read the synopsis!
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06:42 Aankhen`` Which one?
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06:56 buu No idea
06:56 buu Preferably the one on hashes.
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07:01 Aankhen`` Er... are you talking about the Synopses?
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07:03 Aankhen`` S09 doesn't seem to have anything on it.
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07:13 nothingmuch morning
07:23 crysflame .
07:24 ingy yay
07:24 ingy I moved Test.pm to its own ext/Test/ dir
07:24 ingy where it belongs
07:24 ingy and the tests pass
07:25 ingy now i need to get modules to install in the perl6 libs
07:25 ingy then we can write modules galore
07:25 ingy hi lucs!
07:26 lucs Heya ingy :)
07:26 obra ingy, would it make sense to sketch out a naming hierarchy for perl6 modules?
07:26 crysflame oo, thinking ahead! obra++
07:26 crysflame hi, lucs
07:26 obra "Skud was going to do some of this 5 years ago"
07:26 crysflame (: coral)
07:26 lucs Yep. Hello :)
07:26 ingy obra: I already have
07:26 obra cool. url?
07:27 ingy well what do you mean by naming hierarchy?
07:28 ingy have you tried `pugs -V` ?
07:28 lumi has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
07:28 obra WWW, DBD, etc,
07:29 ingy same as Perl5 right?
07:29 lumi has joined #perl6
07:29 obra so that when people start creating zillions of modules, we don't end up with quite the chaos of cpan.  
07:29 ingy I don't really care about that
07:29 obra I expect that perl6 might have a saner standard library
07:29 ingy sure
07:30 obra ok. then what bits were you talking about when you said you'd already done it?
07:30 buu ingy: Er, pugs -V errors for me
07:30 ingy just figured out  where Perl6 modules get installed so that they don't clash with Perl5 ones
07:30 obra ahh. cool
07:30 ingy buu: cool
07:30 buu Oh wait, that's because pugs didn't build. src/Posix.hs:15: pugs_config.h: no such file or directory
07:31 buu Is that supposed to get generated?
07:31 ingy I get:
07:31 obra but now, sleeptime
07:31 ingy /Users/ingy/local/lib/perl6/darwin-2level
07:31 ingy /Users/ingy/local/lib/perl6
07:31 ingy /Users/ingy/local/lib/perl6/site_perl/darwin-2level
07:31 ingy /Users/ingy/local/lib/perl6/site_perl
07:31 ingy .
07:31 crysflame ta, obra
07:32 ingy so pugs has perl6 libs compiled in... and perl5 ones too
07:34 buu hmph
07:44 lucs Yikes. Is it js
07:44 lucs Is it just me,
07:44 lucs or does pugs evaluate int(0.8) to 1?
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07:45 nothingmuch morning lumi
07:45 lumi Morning
07:47 * lucs just figured out why the sample shuffle.p6 fails once in a while.
07:48 nothingmuch care to enlighten?
07:48 lucs It's because pugs evaluates int(0.8) to 1 :)
07:49 lucs (for example)
07:49 nothingmuch aha
07:49 nothingmuch i reckon that is a bug?
07:49 nothingmuch behavior should stay the same from perl5?
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07:50 nothingmuch or should 'rounding' be more dwimmy for newbies (but not for people used to integer arith)
07:50 crysflame or defined as posix?
07:51 * nothingmuch has no man int
07:51 lucs Wait a sec. Does int() mean something different in Perl6?
07:51 lumi has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
07:51 nothingmuch i don't think it should
07:51 nothingmuch in fact, i'll be upset if it did
07:51 lucs I sure am :)
07:51 nothingmuch in that case i will pettition for a 'use int qw/sane/' pragma
07:51 lucs It looks like a bug, eh.
07:52 * nothingmuch writes a test
07:53 lucs There is already a t/int.t; it could use more tests I guess.
07:55 nothingmuch uhuh
07:55 nothingmuch todo_is(int(0.8), 0, "floats aren't rounded up");
07:55 nothingmuch todo_is(int(0.5), 0);
07:55 lucs (er, t/op/int.t)
07:55 nothingmuch enough?
07:55 nothingmuch 0.5 is not a todo
07:55 lucs If it fails, probably enough, yeah :)
07:55 scw how about int(1.5) == 1?
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07:55 lucs Probably redundant, but it doesn't cost much.
07:56 nothingmuch 1.5 is 1
07:56 nothingmuch 1.51 is not
07:57 lumi has joined #perl6
07:58 scw so not every program cast 0.5 to 0 but 1.5 to 2 :p
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08:01 nothingmuch do we have zip() yet?
08:02 nothingmuch oh well, that's another test
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08:13 nothingmuch ok, big t/op/int.t is made
08:15 nothingmuch i would have written it as for((float,\tfloat,\tfloat)\n¥(expected,\texpected\texpected)\n¥(todo,\ttodo,\ttodo))-> $in, $expected, $todo { if ($todo){ todo_is(int($in), $expected, "int($in) is $expected") } ...
08:15 nothingmuch but we have no zip
08:16 lucs Do you have commit rights?
08:17 nothingmuch i have on openfoundry
08:17 nothingmuch but it's down
08:17 lucs Ah.
08:17 nothingmuch so i use darcs and just let autrijus handle the mess
08:17 lucs Well, thanks for building it.
08:18 nothingmuch if someone has real commit rights i can put it up wherever
08:19 nothingmuch as unidiff or replacement file
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08:21 nothingmuch luqui: can you commit changes to t/op/int.t
08:21 nothingmuch ?
08:21 nothingmuch lucs found a bug
08:21 luqui ahh, where?
08:21 nothingmuch i can put it up on my webspace, p6c?
08:21 lumi has joined #perl6
08:22 luqui whatever
08:22 luqui your call
08:22 nothingmuch ok, one minute please, i'm making sure it's going through a proper make test
08:25 nothingmuch ok, http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs/ has int_test.diff, and a modified t/op/int.t, your choice
08:25 nothingmuch now for t/op/zip.t
08:26 luqui making test...
08:26 luqui looks good
08:27 luqui committed
08:27 nothingmuch is(~@a, ~@b, "arrays are equiv"); # is this good enough as a test
08:27 nothingmuch ?
08:27 luqui you know, I think it is
08:27 luqui there will be some cases where @a is not @b and that will still pass
08:28 nothingmuch right, but not trivially
08:28 luqui right
08:28 offby1 has left "No reason"
08:28 nothingmuch my @a = 0, 2, 4, my @b = 1, 3, 5; my @e = 0, 1, 2,3, 4, 5;
08:28 lumi has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:28 nothingmuch then it evals a @z, and makes sure ~@z is eq ~@e
08:28 nothingmuch no one will get angry, right?
08:28 luqui don't think so
08:29 luqui they shouldn't, at least
08:29 nothingmuch btw
08:29 nothingmuch the semantics of @a ¥ @b ¥ @c are that you have @a[0], @b[0], @c[0], @a[1] ..., right?
08:29 nothingmuch it's stacking that way
08:29 luqui yeah
08:30 nothingmuch goody
08:30 luqui it's "list associative" as damian calls it
08:30 nothingmuch i think that having some ops behave like that is the smartest choice of language design since i god know when
08:30 luqui you can do (@a [yen] @b) [yen] @c to get @a[0] @c[0] @b[0] @c[1]...
08:31 nothingmuch ooh
08:31 nothingmuch wait
08:31 scw make failed with ghc-6.4, Conflicting exports for `getEnvironment'
08:31 nothingmuch a, c, b, c, a, c, b, c, right?
08:31 luqui yeah
08:31 nothingmuch i thought it was magical, but it just makes sense
08:31 nothingmuch =)
08:32 nothingmuch zip() takes many arrays, right?
08:32 nothingmuch (i thought you were using yen as a slice)
08:32 luqui uh huh.  it's a semicolon operator
08:32 luqui zip(@a;@b;@c)
08:32 luqui if you use commas, it will just concatenate
08:32 nothingmuch okies
08:32 nothingmuch good to know
08:32 luqui nothingmuch: do you know much about parsec?
08:33 nothingmuch nothing
08:33 luqui nothing much?
08:33 nothingmuch i started with haskell on friday
08:33 luqui ahh, darn.  I'll just have to wait for autrijus then
08:33 nothingmuch i couldn't get the get numbers from user and do stuff to them excercise done in under 15 mins
08:33 nothingmuch so i went to sleep
08:33 nothingmuch and haven't tried again since
08:34 lumi has joined #perl6
08:35 * nothingmuch finds "programming" in perl6 rather intuitive
08:35 nothingmuch i'm not sufferring too much from "oh crap, it's supposed to be different"
08:35 luqui yay
08:35 lumi has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:35 luqui that's what we're going for
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08:36 nothingmuch i think so far the only thing that has been bothering me aesthetically is colon as a list separator
08:36 nothingmuch my head keeps parsing it like a syntax error
08:36 lightstep what is represented as a Syn expression? a syntax tree?
08:36 nothingmuch which i usually do when i make hashes
08:36 luqui you mean the invocant colon?
08:36 nothingmuch (\nkey => foo;)
08:36 nothingmuch in perl5 i did that all the time
08:37 luqui oh, the semicolon multidimensional separator
08:37 luqui (or rather, two dimensional separator)
08:37 nothingmuch so i got used to treating a ; anywhere but the end of an expression, as well as ; at the end of a one line block structure (like if () { foo; }) as syntax errors
08:37 nothingmuch in my head
08:37 nothingmuch but i'll grow out of it
08:38 luqui we should probably disallow null dimensions for that reason
08:41 nothingmuch ok, t/op/zip.t is done
08:41 lumi has joined #perl6
08:42 lightstep is the darcs repository updated frequently?
08:42 nothingmuch autrijus has a minutely sync script
08:42 nothingmuch but it's one way
08:43 nothingmuch and there are conflicts
08:43 lightstep between what?
08:43 nothingmuch since patches you apply get reapplied, but without the logic
08:43 nothingmuch svn.perl.org now
08:43 nothingmuch svn.openfoundry.org later, i think
08:43 lightstep so i'll go learn about svn
08:43 * nothingmuch uses it anyway, since his mind isn't rubbery enough to fit svk into the mess in one weekend
08:43 nothingmuch i'd suggest svk
08:44 nothingmuch it works with svn
08:44 nothingmuch but in a more darcs like way
08:44 lightstep i don't know darcs, except get and pull
08:44 nothingmuch that's really all you need to know about darcs
08:44 nothingmuch well, 'record', 'whatsnew'
08:44 nothingmuch it's sane
08:45 nothingmuch central VCS seems simpler, i think, but they really aren't
08:46 lightstep how do i get/pull with svk?
08:46 nothingmuch there's some instructions somewhere
08:46 nothingmuch let me find them
08:47 nothingmuch i'm not 100% clear on that
08:47 nothingmuch http://svk.elixus.org/?SVKTutorial
08:47 lightstep thanks
08:47 nothingmuch ok, luqui, same ordeal with the zip.t file
08:47 nothingmuch unidiff and file
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08:52 nothingmuch t/op/pipe.t
08:56 nothingmuch ooh
08:56 nothingmuch spooky
08:57 nothingmuch eval '@c <== @a' is causing "Fail: cannot cast into a handle: VList [VInt 1,VInt 2]"
08:57 nothingmuch despite the eval
08:59 luqui nothingmuch: sry, was away... I'll go get it
08:59 lumi has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
08:59 nothingmuch thanks
08:59 nothingmuch any clue on what is op with evalling pipe ops?
08:59 luqui where was the site again?
08:59 Aankh|Clone has joined #perl6
08:59 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs/
08:59 nothingmuch t/op/zip.t or zip.diff
08:59 lumi has joined #perl6
09:00 luqui thanks, applied
09:00 lumi has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:00 luqui r583
09:01 nothingmuch callooh, callay
09:03 Victor_ has left
09:03 nothingmuch luqui: any ideas for how to test locomotive ops?
09:03 nothingmuch i have @a ==> @b, and @c <== @a, checking that @c = @a, and @b = @a
09:03 nothingmuch and i have @a ==> grep {} ==> @b
09:03 nothingmuch and @c <== grep @a;
09:04 luqui yeah that's pretty good
09:04 nothingmuch and again
09:04 luqui you can also test with optional args
09:04 nothingmuch explain
09:04 luqui sub foo ($x, ?$y, *@z) {...}
09:04 nothingmuch ah, user subs accepting pipings
09:04 luqui @list ==> foo $x  # doesn't bind $y
09:04 luqui pipes directly into @z
09:05 nothingmuch pretty
09:05 nothingmuch does that also work with foo($x, @list) in the same way?
09:05 nothingmuch or since @z is flattenned... ?
09:05 luqui your foo won't accept a pipe
09:05 nothingmuch wait, if it's flattenned that doesn't matter
09:05 luqui it'll just croak
09:05 nothingmuch no, not a pipe
09:05 nothingmuch "normal" passing of array
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09:06 luqui I don't quite understand
09:06 nothingmuch if i just do eval 'foo($x, @list)'
09:06 nothingmuch it's the same, right?
09:06 lumi has joined #perl6
09:06 luqui uhhh... perhaps not
09:06 nothingmuch as eval '@list ==> foo $x
09:06 luqui I think it will try to bind that to $y
09:06 luqui maybe
09:06 luqui p6l time
09:07 nothingmuch the first element of @list, you mean?
09:07 luqui no, the whole reference
09:07 nothingmuch hmm
09:07 * luqui asks p6l
09:07 nothingmuch goody
09:07 buu Why is p6 so batshit insane
09:08 nothingmuch perl5 is too
09:08 buu Maybe I'm just used to it.
09:08 luqui yeah, the difference is that you know perl 5
09:08 buu But come on now: @x>>+<<@y
09:08 buu @x ==> foo $x;
09:08 nothingmuch that's one fo the nicest things ever
09:08 buu That's sheer evil.
09:08 * crysflame blinks
09:08 nothingmuch hyper ops are beautiful
09:08 nothingmuch and piping helps readability
09:08 crysflame wow, that's interesting
09:08 nothingmuch only the invocant is concerned
09:08 buu Well, yeah
09:08 buu I kind of like them
09:08 buu But they're definately weird.
09:08 nothingmuch crysflame: the first will add elements of @x to elements of @y
09:09 crysflame @x ==> foo $x?  
09:09 nothingmuch crysflame: see what luqui was just mentioning
09:09 crysflame right
09:09 luqui the slurpy parameter acts like the functions stdin
09:09 crysflame @x ==> foo($x) comes to mind
09:09 buu luqui: Er, what?
09:09 luqui same thing, far as I know
09:09 crysflame oh, jeez
09:10 luqui buu what what?
09:10 buu luqui: What did you mean by 'acts like stdin' ?
09:10 nothingmuch buu: it takes pipes
09:10 luqui when you pipe into a function using ==>, it goes directly to the slurpy parameter, bypassing positionals
09:10 luqui (which had better be optional)
09:10 buu Oh. Good.
09:14 nothingmuch ok,
09:14 nothingmuch t/op/pipe.t is ready
09:14 nothingmuch putting up
09:14 nothingmuch done
09:14 lightstep recursion it really really broken!
09:14 lightstep s/it/is/
09:15 nothingmuch note that without modifying the test two tests will never untodo
09:15 luqui thanks, applied
09:15 nothingmuch because they have fatal runtime errors
09:15 nothingmuch the eval '' is dying
09:15 nothingmuch hence commented out
09:16 nothingmuch ok, that's enough p6 for today
09:16 * nothingmuch goes to rip a cd
09:16 luqui lightstep: how so?
09:17 sorje_ has quit IRC ("leaving")
09:17 lightstep hanoi.p6 always gets 'S' in $s
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09:17 lightstep i can't say more until i hack Pretty.hs
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09:17 Aankh|Clone is now known as Aankhen``
09:18 nothingmuch are the exegis examples made into tests yet?
09:18 luqui dunno
09:18 nothingmuch i would be glad to translate them and make sure they work like they should, by running unit tests for those programs
09:18 nothingmuch s/running/writing/
09:18 luqui that'd be pretty cool
09:19 luqui you know the earlier ones are wrong nowadays, right?
09:19 nothingmuch i will try to fix them up as i goi
09:19 nothingmuch needless to say i will be bitching here and on p6l a lot
09:19 luqui good
09:20 nothingmuch now to get chromatic to write Test::Builder like he promised
09:20 nothingmuch ;-)
09:23 lumi has joined #perl6
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09:32 nothingmuch hola orb
09:34 jacleo has joined #perl6
09:36 theorbtwo Allo, nm.
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09:37 nothingmuch what beith new?
09:40 * nothingmuch is at work, his laptop's CD is broken, and someone wants him to listen to something
09:40 nothingmuch what's an x11 based cdripper usually available on redhat?
09:41 nothingmuch hopefully based on cdparanoia + ogg or lame
09:41 luqui grip?
09:41 nothingmuch sounds good
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09:42 luqui lame encanta a luqui
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10:04 nothingmuch loop (1 .. 20) is the "right" way to get 20 iterations, correct?
10:41 Aankhen`` Yea.
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10:54 nothingmuch 100% sure it's also allowed? because for (1 .. 20) works, bug loop (1 .. 20) is a parse error, and is also not tested for
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11:04 wolverian nothingmuch: then loop is unimplemented.
11:04 nothingmuch test test test
11:04 wolverian nothingmuch: there's nothing wrong with 'for 1..20 -> $x { print $x }' though.
11:04 nothingmuch without needing the counter, i'd like to just do some block 20 times
11:04 lumi has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:07 wolverian for 1..20 { ... }
11:07 wolverian 'loop' is meant exclusively for c-style loops, as far as I know
11:07 wolverian (loop my $i = 0; $i < 20; $i++ { ... })
11:07 nothingmuch ok, that's what i was checking
11:08 luqui has joined #perl6
11:08 nothingmuch luqui: want to look at exegesis 1's example?
11:08 nothingmuch the fileserver is down so i have a free 10 mins
11:09 luqui okay
11:09 * luqui doesn't remember exe1
11:09 crysflame (1..20) ==> for $x { print $x } ?
11:09 nothingmuch tree example
11:09 nothingmuch crysflame++
11:09 * nothingmuch only wants for (1..20){ do_something_unrelated_to_x }
11:09 crysflame osmosis works!
11:10 nothingmuch err, exegesis 2
11:10 nothingmuch it's #1, but it's 2
11:10 luqui crysflame: (1..20) ==> for -> $x { print $x }
11:10 luqui that acutally, er, works.  but maybe not
11:10 nothingmuch my int ($pre, $in, $post) --> my ($pre is int, $in is int, $post is int)?
11:10 luqui sub statement:for (*@vals, *&code)
11:11 nothingmuch my ($pre, $in, $post) is int, constant = (0 .. 2)?
11:11 lumi has joined #perl6
11:11 crysflame luqui: heh. i was just making up syntax.
11:11 crysflame (1..20) -> for $x { ... } ?
11:11 nothingmuch for is a sub that also looks at it's code's prototype and then decides how to dispatch @vals?
11:11 lumi has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
11:12 luqui crysflame: sure, but I don't think you can use pipes on for
11:12 luqui because it's statement-level
11:12 crysflame hmmm
11:12 nothingmuch in the for (@arr) -> type syntax
11:12 crysflame ok
11:12 luqui nothingmuch: hm?
11:12 nothingmuch ignore me
11:12 nothingmuch http://dev.perl.org/perl6/exegesis/E02.html
11:13 nothingmuch the "my int ($pre, $in, $post)" bit doesn't look right
11:13 lumi has joined #perl6
11:13 luqui nothingmuch: I think it's right... we really haven't cared enough to define that part of the language
11:14 luqui we'll probably allow both: my int ($x, $y) and my (int $x, int $y)
11:14 luqui because they're both unambiguous
11:14 nothingmuch ok
11:14 nothingmuch and constant is a trait, not a part of the type, right?
11:14 nothingmuch well, duh
11:14 nothingmuch is rw
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11:16 crysflame print (1..20) ==> int ==> join ',' ?
11:16 crysflame or is that the wrong idea
11:16 wolverian 1..20 ==> map { int } ==> join ","
11:16 luqui wolverian: precisely
11:17 luqui ==> print on the end if you please
11:17 wolverian 1..20.map:{ int }.join(",") # or is the : optional again or what? :)
11:17 luqui don't think it's optional in that form
11:17 luqui definitely not, actually
11:17 crysflame hmm, ok
11:18 wolverian does map understand only adverbial blocks?
11:18 crysflame 1..20 >>==><< int ?
11:18 wolverian or can I pass it a regular block as .map({...})?
11:18 wolverian also, is the precedence right with the .join directly after the adverbial block?
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11:18 luqui wolverian: the precedence is okay
11:18 luqui adverbial blocks go in *& parameters
11:19 wolverian ah, okay.
11:19 luqui and I don't know how you get something into the *& parameter without using an adverb, but maybe there's a way
11:19 crysflame that is, given a func that takes one thing, can i replace any use of map { func } with >>...<< func?
11:19 luqui uhh...
11:19 wolverian multi sub map (Code *&c, *@rest) { ... } # would the slurpiness DWIM there?
11:20 luqui I think *& is a zone just like *$, *@, and *%
11:20 luqui and it has to go at the end, because that's where it goes in for
11:20 wolverian mm. okay.
11:20 wolverian I'll need to reread that bit. :)
11:20 luqui but @Larry is thinking about removing the zone restriction
11:20 wolverian ah, okay.
11:21 luqui and I don't think *& has been written in any official doc yet
11:21 luqui (maybe it has)
11:21 lumi has joined #perl6
11:21 wolverian I don't remember it, but again, I don't remember the zones very well either.
11:21 luqui no, there's a passive mention in A6 about *&
11:21 wolverian crysflame: >>...<< only works with infix functions, I think. :)
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11:22 luqui you can do it with prefix, but then it's ...<<
11:22 luqui and postfix: >>...
11:22 luqui like, @objs>>.meth
11:22 crysflame hmmm
11:22 wolverian do we have any postfix functions that aren't methods? :)
11:22 crysflame oh, neat
11:22 luqui well, @nums>>++
11:23 luqui although using prefix there might be clearer... just maybe
11:23 crysflame (rand x 20) >> .int >> join ',' >> print?
11:23 wolverian that could easily still be a method, though. which I think is a good thing. probably.
11:23 wolverian crysflame: ==> you mean.
11:24 crysflame errr
11:24 crysflame (rand x 20) >> .int ==> join ',' ==> print?
11:24 wolverian or maybe: (rand x 20)>>.int>>.join(',')>>.print
11:24 wolverian theoretically that might work. :)
11:24 crysflame >>. >>. >>.
11:24 crysflame i feel like i'm playing zork orsomething
11:25 wolverian heh.
11:25 crysflame >> applies a list to a .method effectively, while ==> pipelines the left side into the right side's arguments, presuming the right side isn't a method (infix functions only?)
11:25 crysflame so (rand x 20) ==> .int is bad
11:25 crysflame (rand x 20) >> .int is good
11:26 nothingmuch luqui: first bits of exegesis 2 is "my $var is trait'
11:26 nothingmuch i'm writing t/base/traits.t
11:26 luqui (rand) xx 20 ==> .int means $_.int((rand) xx 20)
11:26 nothingmuch testing for 'my $const is constant = 2'
11:26 crysflame oooh, okay
11:26 crysflame so ==> is slurp args
11:26 wolverian luqui: is it xx nowadays?
11:26 wolverian luqui: oh, is xx list constructor and x string?
11:26 luqui x is for strings, xx is for lists
11:26 luqui right
11:27 nothingmuch testing that you can't assign to $const later on
11:27 crysflame so when i said >>==><< i meant >>
11:27 luqui probably
11:27 crysflame since the hyper form of ==> for a single list left side and a single arg right side is >>
11:27 nothingmuch and testing that it's value remains after trying to assign
11:27 nothingmuch any more ideas?
11:27 wolverian @array_of_arrays >>==><< stuff; # ...that is so ugly.
11:28 crysflame yep
11:28 lumi has joined #perl6
11:28 wolverian s/<<//
11:28 lumi has quit IRC (Client Quit)
11:28 crysflame oh, gack
11:28 luqui well this really gets into testing traits
11:28 crysflame ok
11:28 nothingmuch that's the origin of the dead fish operating
11:28 nothingmuch or
11:28 nothingmuch s/ing$/or/
11:28 nothingmuch not object traits
11:29 nothingmuch that's for the 6.2 tests vs. apocalypse 12 stuff to define later
11:29 luqui container traits
11:29 wolverian hrm, this should work, right: for @aoa -> @a { ... }
11:29 nothingmuch yes
11:29 crysflame @a, @b >> sum ==> ',' -> join ==> print  ?
11:29 crysflame sums each of $a[0], $b[0], etc
11:29 crysflame joins with , prints.. hm.
11:29 crysflame there's going to be some mad crazy learning required for all this
11:29 luqui wolverian: yep
11:30 wolverian -> join should be a syntax error.
11:30 luqui well...
11:30 john has joined #perl6
11:30 wolverian (as -> wants a code block, probably)
11:30 luqui yes I think that works
11:30 luqui crysflame: what's that -> doing in there?
11:30 wolverian also, you want (@a,@b)>>.sum
11:30 wolverian (are the arrays flattened there? I forget what the policy is now.)
11:30 crysflame i'm learning syntax by probing the edges of it
11:30 wolverian (if it's changed.)
11:31 crysflame will stop, as i've hit the brick wall of the moment
11:31 wolverian crysflame: >> and ==> are only two operators.
11:31 wolverian it's not _that_ complex.
11:31 luqui I don't know if they're flattened there, actually
11:31 wolverian let me see what pugs does. I think it was a bug though, regarding that.
11:31 crysflame i would think that if the rside of >> expects two operators and gets two on the left side then..  dunno
11:32 crysflame wolverian: >>, ==>, ->, and >>+<< went by int he past hour or two
11:32 luqui anyone seen autrijus
11:32 nothingmuch probably asleep
11:32 nothingmuch how would i test for 'is chomped'?
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11:32 nothingmuch in perl5 i'd prolly do a pipe open
11:32 nothingmuch and nonblocking write
11:32 nothingmuch so that it doesn't die
11:32 wolverian wow, my pugs is broken.
11:32 luqui you could also open yourself
11:32 lumi has joined #perl6
11:32 nothingmuch ah
11:32 nothingmuch good point
11:32 lumi Hi, sorry
11:32 luqui hi lumi
11:32 crysflame hi
11:33 luqui you've been in and out all day
11:33 nothingmuch how would you name the test for $0?
11:33 nothingmuch lumi has been scholded
11:33 lumi_ has joined #perl6
11:33 luqui $0?
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11:33 nothingmuch program name
11:33 luqui that's not the program name anymore
11:34 nothingmuch ah
11:34 nothingmuch $?...
11:34 luqui it's more like $?PROGNAME or something
11:34 luqui $0 is the match object
11:34 wolverian I still think it'd be nicer to objectify that kind of variables.
11:34 wolverian $SYS.progname # or so.
11:34 nothingmuch t/magicals/progname.t?
11:35 wolverian or taking a page from Larry, $SYS<progname> :)
11:35 nothingmuch so should i just stub $SYS.progname in the test?
11:35 wolverian er, no, that's my delusions.
11:35 wolverian I'm not authoritative.
11:36 wolverian use $?PROGNAME for now.
11:36 luqui yeah that should be fine
11:36 nothingmuch todo_is($?PROGNAME, "t/magicals/progname.t");
11:36 nothingmuch well, (eval '$?PROGNAME', ...)
11:36 john examples/hanoi.p6 gives the wrong answers, algo is sound, probably something worng in the argument passing. Turned the example into a test, where should it go? t/examples/hanoi.t maybe?
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11:37 lumi How do you test that? Anything might call the test, no?
11:37 nothingmuch someone else mentioned it too, john
11:37 nothingmuch perl t/test.t yields '$0 eq 't/test.t' under perl
11:37 nothingmuch assuming it runs under the pugs test harness, where it should, it shouldn't fail
11:37 nothingmuch anything else is the test runner's responsibility
11:37 john any need for the hanoi test code?
11:38 nothingmuch they must open the test, and read the comment that says "run me properly"
11:39 wolverian heh, latest pugs:
11:39 wolverian Failed 2/55 test scripts, 96.36% okay. -5/1003 subtests failed, 100.50% okay.
11:39 nothingmuch hehe
11:39 wolverian I am more than okay!
11:41 nothingmuch do we have rx// like quotes yet?
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11:41 wolverian we don't have rules yet.
11:41 nothingmuch that could be todo, i mean syntax wise
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11:41 nothingmuch qq//
11:41 wolverian yes.
11:42 nothingmuch i see
11:42 nothingmuch t/op/quoting is all todo
11:43 nothingmuch almost
11:43 wolverian well, say qq/foo/ works :)
11:44 nothingmuch but that's about it =)
11:44 wolverian qq() works as well!
11:44 nothingmuch how silly would it be to create a todo_like sub in Test
11:44 wolverian q// does not.
11:44 nothingmuch which always says 'not ok name # TODO like() is not yet implemented
11:45 nothingmuch todo_like(eval '$?PROGNAME', eval 'rx#t/magicals/progname\.t$#', "progname var matches test file path");
11:45 nothingmuch ?
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12:04 nothingmuch beh, qw((foo bar)) does not yield '(foo', 'bar)'
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12:12 Juerd It does not?
12:12 nothingmuch nope
12:12 nothingmuch should it?
12:12 nothingmuch should i add a test to t/op/quoting.t?
12:13 nothingmuch i will
12:13 nothingmuch either 'q((foo bar))' yields '(foo' 'bar)' or 'q(())' does not parse
12:13 Juerd w
12:13 nothingmuch one of them is the right behavior, i just don't know which
12:13 Juerd The former
12:14 Juerd Even qw<<foo bar>> results in '<foo', 'bar>'
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12:14 Juerd only without qw, << is special in meaning «
12:14 nothingmuch shouldn't that be a lone <<>>?
12:14 nothingmuch ah
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12:15 Juerd See <20041125214551.GA28377@wall.org> in p6l
12:15 wolverian shouldn't q((foo bar)) yield _one_ string?
12:15 nothingmuch qw
12:15 nothingmuch i think yes
12:16 wolverian your original question had two elements
12:16 wolverian I think. :)
12:16 wolverian er, sorry, it had qw.
12:16 Juerd wolverian: Yes - we were talking about qw though :)
12:16 wolverian you just later used q(), which confused me.
12:16 Juerd So the q must be a typo
12:16 wolverian I blame it on having to use windows right now.
12:16 * nothingmuch is full of typos
12:17 nothingmuch wtf?
12:17 nothingmuch google groups finds that message id
12:17 nothingmuch but if i click the title it says 'perl-perl6-language doesn't exist'
12:17 nothingmuch feh!
12:18 Juerd nothingmuch: tr/-/./
12:18 Juerd Bug in GG
12:18 nothingmuch goody
12:19 Juerd Google's new Groups interface SUCKS
12:19 nothingmuch should i also test q\0 \0
12:19 Juerd It doesn't parse quotes in a useful way
12:19 nothingmuch where \0 is really a char?
12:19 Juerd Did they code this in PHP or what?
12:19 nothingmuch that char, not just a char
12:19 Juerd nothingmuch: Yes, that should work.
12:19 wolverian I think I read google uses python, mostly.
12:19 Juerd nothingmuch: It's a much used technique in generated code, even
12:19 Juerd wolverian: Python and C, yes
12:20 wolverian which is lightyears better than PHP.
12:20 nothingmuch a friend of mine was thinking of applying for a job
12:20 nothingmuch the skillset they wanted was c/c++, python, perl
12:21 nothingmuch eval '@quote3b = q:2/$foo $bar/';
12:21 nothingmuch todo_is(@quote3b[0], 'FOO',
12:21 nothingmuch q:2 means q:double?
12:21 Juerd What's :double?
12:21 nothingmuch qq
12:21 Juerd omg.
12:21 nothingmuch yes =(
12:21 Aankh|Clone has joined #perl6
12:23 nothingmuch wtf?!
12:23 nothingmuch q/$foo $bar/ returns two elements, '$foo' and '$bar'?!
12:23 nothingmuch why god why?!
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12:32 nothingmuch somebody please look at lines 24 and 26 of t/op/quoting.t and tell me i'm reading wrong
12:45 wolverian ..that looks wrong.
12:46 wolverian but then again, I don't know the latest designs on quoting. :)
12:46 qmole /8
12:58 nothingmuch well, i'm off
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15:43 autrijus greetings!
15:46 lumi Hello
15:46 autrijus hey.
15:46 autrijus openfoundry is back
15:46 autrijus merging everythiing back now
15:48 autrijus changes topic to: Run Perl6 Now! | pugscode.org ('Overview', 'Journal') | pugs.kwiki.org | channel log: http://xrl.us/e98m
15:51 cls_bsd greak
15:52 cls_bsd in such time it proofs svk's power
15:52 autrijus =)
15:52 sahadev has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds)
15:55 metaperl good news
15:55 autrijus the bad news is that yesterday, the final night in beijin
15:56 autrijus we had this great idea of eating out at a "regular folk" foodplace for once
15:56 autrijus instead of eating in Proper Restaurants like we did before
15:57 autrijus result: serious and extremely painful case of diarrhea for the past 24 hours :-/
15:57 clkao poor autrijus
15:57 cls_bsd oops, after svk up -s, my pugs is still 6.0.9, but there's 6.0.10 in CPAN
15:57 autrijus cls_bsd: rerun perl Makefile.PL ?
15:57 cls_bsd poor autrijus
15:58 scw autrijus: //pat. That always happends it China..
15:58 * autrijus nods. should've known better
15:58 cls_bsd so what's your choice next time in China? :p
15:58 clkao autrijus: great, you just hit svk's bug. log message became "1"
15:58 clkao it was fixed last night
15:58 autrijus cool.
15:58 cls_bsd grep VERSION lib/Perl6/Pugs.pm
15:58 cls_bsd $Pugs::VERSION = '6.0.9';
15:59 cls_bsd ok, re-run svk up -s again
16:00 cls_bsd ok, updated...
16:03 statico whoa, did i miss chromatic on irc?
16:04 autrijus a few days ago, yeah
16:04 autrijus the interview
16:05 autrijus openfoundry svn fully synced up.
16:06 ingy hola
16:07 ingy autrijus: I moved Test.pm into ext and got it working
16:07 sahadev has joined #perl6
16:07 ingy now I need it to install in the perl6 paths
16:09 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
16:11 trexy_ has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
16:12 autrijus cool.
16:12 autrijus so tell me the plan now
16:12 autrijus is it still possible to use upload p6 modules to CPAN?
16:12 autrijus or do we drop that route?
16:13 autrijus I somehow still think reusing Perl6::lib::* is attractive, but if you have a better idea I'm all ears
16:15 ingy pugs can load both perl5 and perl6 modules
16:15 ingy it has paths for both
16:15 autrijus not seeing that
16:15 ingy the perl6 ones come first in @INC
16:15 autrijus you seem to have moved away p5lib
16:15 ingy I am describing the future
16:15 autrijus ahh ok. go on
16:16 ingy perl6 modules use a pugs aware build system
16:16 ingy that installs them into the perl6 trees
16:16 ingy very simple
16:17 autrijus so we use pugs to run Makefile.PL?
16:17 ingy as for cpan
16:17 ingy autrijus: eventually
16:17 autrijus ok. what about cpan?
16:17 autrijus i.e. what should we tell darren?
16:17 ingy but that is not the future I am talking about
16:17 autrijus nod.
16:17 ingy hold on
16:18 ingy so say I write a perl6 verion of a perl5 module
16:18 trexy_ has joined #perl6
16:18 * autrijus grabs some pain killers; type ahead, I'll brb
16:19 ingy eventually cpan will need to be able to accomodate perl5 and perl6 modules of the same name
16:19 autrijus p6 modules have this "long name"
16:19 ingy name a module for instance
16:19 autrijus so ideally it should be uploaded under the long names
16:19 autrijus which includes the author etc
16:20 ingy my cpan solution is to simply change the dist name
16:20 ingy Perl6-*
16:20 ingy for the short term
16:20 autrijus Perl6-* is bad
16:20 autrijus see existing CPAN modules
16:21 autrijus there's loads of Perl6-*
16:21 autrijus and they are p5 modules.
16:21 autrijus which is why I proposed Perl6-lib-*
16:21 ingy decent point...
16:21 autrijus I pondered v6-*
16:21 autrijus to pun with "use v6;"
16:21 autrijus but I think Perl6-lib-* is clearer
16:21 ingy I don't grok Perl6-lib- at all
16:21 ingy what is the trickery that led you to that?
16:22 autrijus twofold:
16:22 autrijus in CPAN we need a dinstinct prefix for distnames
16:22 autrijus in the short term
16:22 autrijus to mark p6 modules
16:22 autrijus Perl6-lib-* is the most reasonable thing I can think of.
16:23 autrijus now, the obviously easy thing to do with regular makemaker
16:23 ingy it seems rather awful
16:23 autrijus sure. better suggestion being?
16:23 ingy why cruft up the perl6 module layout ffrom the author perspective
16:23 autrijus I think v6-* is too vague.
16:23 ingy everything should remain the same
16:23 ingy and the tools should dtrt
16:24 autrijus uh. sure.
16:24 autrijus so I agree w/ your plan
16:24 jdv79 has left "Leaving"
16:24 autrijus we could have a M::I extension
16:24 autrijus that simply prefix the distname with Perl6-lib-
16:24 autrijus but install things under p6 libparh
16:24 stef_ has quit IRC ("leaving")
16:24 autrijus libpath ev
16:24 autrijus libpath even
16:24 autrijus and keep everything else the same
16:25 ingy I completely agree...
16:25 autrijus but the prefix should still be there.
16:25 autrijus so the extension needs to
16:25 ingy except Perl6-lib- is sooo not shiny
16:25 autrijus 1. prepend something to distname
16:25 ingy v6- is pretty shiny
16:25 autrijus 2. find pugs or perl6 executable and run tests with them
16:26 autrijus CPAN Upload: v6-DBI
16:26 autrijus CPAN Upload: Perl6-lib-DBI
16:26 autrijus I wonder if we should have a poll...
16:26 autrijus I think v6-DBI may mislead people thinking that's dbi v6
16:27 ingy I really think the prefix is not the right thing long term
16:27 ingy cpan needs to be reorganized
16:27 ingy thus freepan or a lot of work
16:28 autrijus agree
16:28 autrijus in the long term we are all reborn anyway
16:28 autrijus but in the short term.
16:28 ingy we can go with the prefix for now
16:29 autrijus with a clear mark that it is purely transitional
16:29 ingy but we may see it still in 20 years :P
16:29 autrijus well yeah
16:29 autrijus but without a solution
16:29 autrijus some CPAN authors may not bother to convert things to p6
16:29 autrijus which is a loss :)
16:29 autrijus deadlocking bad, makeshifting good (I think)
16:30 ingy sooo... I think Perl people adopt fast enough for v6-
16:30 autrijus so you think v6- is the way to go?
16:30 ingy definitely
16:30 Juerd There'll be an army of porters! </dream>
16:30 autrijus there will.
16:30 autrijus mm I'll ask on #perl a bit.
16:31 ingy when there are 500 v6- modules, Perl people are smart enough to know they aren't all at version 6 :P
16:31 Juerd I don't like the (or any) prefix
16:31 pjcj Has perl6 got v-strings?
16:31 ingy Juerd: solution?
16:32 ingy we don't like the prefix either
16:32 autrijus pjcj: v-objects, yeah.
16:32 Juerd I think CPAN should be left for what it is and a new repository should be created
16:32 lukhnos /win/win 5
16:32 ingy freepan!
16:32 autrijus Juerd: I agree.
16:32 lukhnos oops sorry
16:32 autrijus however, recreating the toolchain takes Time.
16:32 Juerd This might be a directory in CPAN, as to abuse existing mirrors
16:32 Juerd But it should be differently structured
16:32 pjcj v6 won't clash with v-objects?
16:33 autrijus mm? v6-DBI-1.0.tar.gz
16:33 autrijus it's DBI.pm inside still
16:33 Juerd CPAN is really great, but every Perl person you meet can give you a list of things it should improve on, but it cannot improve for it's monolithic.
16:33 ingy autrijus: help me create freepan in taiwan
16:33 ingy we can use foundry for much
16:33 Juerd autrijus: v6 implies a version, and that's what I don't like
16:34 autrijus that's also what I fear.
16:34 ingy bah!!!
16:34 Juerd Maybe a change like going from - to _ is enough to indicate the difference
16:34 ingy that's so silly
16:34 lumi p6- ?
16:34 Juerd Or the version number notation
16:34 autrijus mmm p6.
16:34 ingy after 3 days, EVERYONE WILL GET IT
16:34 Juerd p6 is better than v6, but still includes a version number...
16:35 ingy so it really doesn't matter what it is. just keep it as short as possible
16:35 autrijus well for that matter, "Perl6-lib" includes a version number :)
16:35 Juerd If we use a prefix, we will be stuck with that for the next 20 years, even long after perl5's use has dropped to zero.
16:35 autrijus that is not a module name prefix.
16:35 autrijus it is merely the tarball prefix.
16:35 ingy I agree with Juerd on that
16:35 Juerd Doesn't matter
16:35 rooneg has joined #perl6
16:35 Juerd Perl 6 isn't "Perl 6" years after its release
16:35 Juerd It will be "Perl"
16:36 autrijus true. but then, we'll have 6PAN/FreePAN
16:36 autrijus and it can drop the prefix
16:36 Juerd You know that will not happen
16:36 autrijus I don't know. ingy is still alive after all
16:36 autrijus I'd be happy if we can find a better short term solution
16:36 autrijus than p6-*
16:36 ingy oops, I have to run. I'll code this all up by tonight.
16:37 Juerd Something as simple as defining a format that is incompatible with p5's is enough
16:37 Juerd I'm very tempted to suggest a non-.tar.gz suffix
16:37 ingy autrijus: I have a better short term solution
16:37 Juerd For something that still is .tar.gz, though
16:37 autrijus ingy: pray tell
16:37 autrijus .par.gz ;)
16:37 Juerd As an example: Debian packages (.deb) are really just ar archives (.ar)
16:38 ingy don't upload to cpan. just have people use your pugs repos for perl6 modules for now.
16:38 ingy that will buy time to get it right
16:38 autrijus not thinking that scales, though
16:38 ingy try it
16:38 lumi Which makes sure we won't see it in 20 years?
16:39 autrijus so hmm. so instead of applying a PAUSE account
16:39 autrijus apply an openfoundry account
16:39 ingy yes
16:39 ingy for now
16:39 autrijus instead of being a pause uploader, become a pugs committer
16:39 autrijus instead of managing your own release
16:39 autrijus let pugs release for you
16:39 ingy and we turn that into freepan for mirorring
16:40 ingy all of Kwiki is under SVN as well as CPAN, and I don't use CPAN anymore
16:40 ingy it is the new way
16:40 ingy anyway it buys us a month or two
16:40 cls_bsd  ha
16:41 clkao by that time we'll have svkup for mass distribution
16:41 ingy really have to run. ttul!!
16:41 autrijus I can see that.
16:42 Limbic_Region has left
16:43 CDybedahl t/magicals/env.t tests for $TEMP, which is not set on any OS I have running (FreeBSD, Solaris, OSX), so that test fails. Since the test just wants a pre-existing env var, I think $PATH would be a much better choice.
16:43 autrijus I think we should just zap that test.
16:44 CDybedahl That works too :-)
16:44 cls_bsd let pugs release you # autrijus> let pugs release for you
16:44 cls_bsd XD
16:46 autrijus so you folks are ok with the delay tactic ingy proposed?
16:46 autrijus i.e. if you want to write pugs/perl6 modules, just apply pugs committership for now
16:47 autrijus and put your modules in ext/
16:48 rooneg as long as it's just a short term solution that seems fine...  once pugs starts getting objects and rules we'll need something better though, as module writers will start coming out of the woodwork...
16:49 autrijus yup.
16:49 pjcj yeah - I think it works short term
16:49 cls_bsd ex/t
16:49 cls_bsd ext/
16:49 cls_bsd oops
16:49 rooneg i mean for now it seems like there are a rather limited number of modules people are likely to write anyway
16:50 autrijus well except we're telling people to write imaginary modules
16:52 autrijus but yeah, I think I'll update PA01 to say that.
16:53 rooneg hey, if someone with commit access has a sec, svn:ignore in src/ and ext/Kwid/ could stand to be updated...  it'd make my 'svn status' output look so much nicer ;-)
16:54 autrijus can you do it yourself?
16:54 autrijus rooneg at electricjellyfish.net ? :)
16:54 rooneg yep, if you want to give me access ;-)
16:55 autrijus invitation sent
16:55 rooneg thanks
16:55 autrijus np :)
16:55 autrijus welcome aboard
17:04 justatheory has joined #perl6
17:11 cls_bsd Failed 11/62 test scripts, 82.26% okay. 46/1071 subtests failed, 95.70% okay.
17:11 cls_bsd not bad, though
17:12 autrijus huh?
17:12 autrijus it's all pass for me.
17:12 autrijus what did you do? :)
17:13 cls_bsd make test
17:13 cls_bsd :p
17:13 autrijus weird... latest openfoundry?
17:13 autrijus what failed?
17:13 cls_bsd sure, just svk up
17:13 cls_bsd hmm
17:14 cls_bsd such as line 78,79,81 in 03operator
17:14 cls_bsd ok, I should svk up again@@"
17:14 * rooneg doesn't get any failures either
17:14 metaperl those look like my junction tests (without checking operator.t)
17:15 metaperl maybe your pugs binary is old... make install did not overwrite my last one and I had a similar problem
17:15 metaperl do pugs -v
17:15 cls_bsd no, I thought I update t/*, but in fact I didn't :~
17:16 autrijus pebcak :p
17:17 cls_bsd re-make again
17:17 cls_bsd Not in MANIFEST: t/op/assign.t
17:17 cls_bsd Not in MANIFEST: t/op/pipe.t
17:17 cls_bsd Not in MANIFEST: t/op/zip.t
17:17 cls_bsd so I missed something?_?
17:18 rooneg nah, i think manifest just hasn't been updated in a little while
17:18 lucs I think 'nothingmuch' added the pipe and zip tests just a few hours ago.
17:18 autrijus yeah. commits welcome, etc.
17:19 cls_bsd oh, I just afraid it's my own problem :p
17:19 hcchien all tests successful for me. :)
17:19 john At revision 467. all OK
17:21 cls_bsd great, now I saw lots of "....ok"
17:23 cls_bsd Files=1, Tests=1,  1 wallclock secs ( 0.84 cusr +  0.02 csys =  0.86 CPU)
17:34 offby1 has joined #perl6
17:36 autrijus t/op/int all passed.
17:36 lucs !
17:36 autrijus committing
17:36 lucs Fantastic!
17:36 lucs I love you all!
17:36 autrijus lucs++ # welcome aboard, our 20th committer
17:36 autrijus r471.
17:38 theorbtwo Going back a little, re package formats...
17:38 autrijus yes?
17:38 theorbtwo .tar.gz has the bad side-effect of needing to penetrate more levels before you can get any useful metadata.
17:38 offby1 where should I send a tiny unit test for pugs, which demonstrates a failure?
17:39 theorbtwo How tiny?  Just paste it?
17:39 offby1 yup, that tiny.
17:39 theorbtwo Paste away, then.
17:40 offby1 excluding the prelude, which you can probably guess:
17:40 offby1 sub modify_readwrite (Int $x is rw) {$x =  $x + 1;}
17:40 offby1 ok (8 == modify_readwrite (7), "read-write parameter can be modified");
17:40 offby1
17:40 offby1 I'm guessing I'm making a mistake somewhere, or failing to understand something, since this is so simple.
17:41 offby1 When I run it like ``pugs /usr/local/src/pugs-6/t/is_rw.t'', it says
17:41 offby1 unexpected "s"
17:41 offby1 expecting ";" or end of input
17:41 offby1 NonTerm "/usr/local/src/pugs-6/t/is_rw.t" (line 8, column 1)
17:41 rooneg .tar.gz has the benefit of not getting into a huge debate over the virtues of various archive formats ;-)
17:41 theorbtwo Is there a missing ';' at the end of the previous line?
17:41 theorbtwo True enough.
17:41 theorbtwo But it doesn't leave much for 'file' to recognize.
17:42 offby1 theorbtwo: I don't think so.  If I omit the "is rw", it compiles, and then (correctly) fails at runtime.
17:42 theorbtwo I'd start by stealing the .deb format, then modifying from there.
17:43 theorbtwo (Quite possibly by making the metadata use yaml for starters.)
17:43 lucs I'm pretty much of a Perl6 newbie, but does it make any sense to be able to make '7' writable?
17:43 theorbtwo No, it doesn't, but that's certianly the wrong error message.
17:43 lucs Oh.
17:44 autrijus "is rw" is not parsed.
17:44 autrijus to test it, put it in eval. :)
17:44 theorbtwo Shouldn't the parser just accept is \w+ ?
17:44 autrijus I'm also think that eval_ok and eval_is works
17:44 autrijus right, that's the idea. it's just not implemented.
17:45 autrijus so, oil for food, I mean, test for code, as usual :)
17:45 offby1 But I want it to succeed, not fail.  Don't I?
17:45 theorbtwo Yeah, it should be a todo test with an eval.
17:45 offby1 oh wait, I think I see the problem.  I'm modifying a constant.
17:45 offby1 ahem
17:45 autrijus I'd be happy if someone can hack Test.pm to add todo_eval_is and todo_eval_ok :)
17:45 * rooneg proposes tying autrijus to a chair and making him implement is rw.  or perhaps given.  one of the two ;-)
17:45 autrijus I'll do that tomorrow now I have respectable bandwidth :)
17:46 theorbtwo Back in .tw/~autrijus ?
17:46 autrijus yup.
17:46 autrijus I need to sleep soon.
17:47 offby1 autrijus: I take back my last comment -- the problem is in compilation, not runtime.  pugs says
17:47 offby1 unexpected "s"
17:47 offby1 expecting ";" or end of input
17:47 offby1 NonTerm "/usr/local/src/pugs-6/t/is_rw.t" (line 8, column 1)
17:47 autrijus hopefully when I wake up there will be proper "is rw" tests :)
17:47 autrijus offby1: right, because parser doesn't grok traits.
17:47 autrijus it's to be expected.
17:47 offby1 ok
17:47 autrijus so it sees a "NonTerm".
17:47 offby1 is there a workaround?
17:47 * rooneg starts looking at adding todo_eval_is and todo_eval_ok
17:47 autrijus which is a facy word to say it's not terminating
17:47 autrijus offby1: sure, use 'eval'
17:47 autrijus to test parse bugs, always use eval.
17:48 offby1 I don't want to test parse bugs; I want to test read-writeableness.  How can I use "eval" to mean "this paramater is writable"?
17:48 theorbtwo The workaround is what you just did: tell the chan that it's not working, get a test case in, and somebody will make the test case pass eventally.
17:48 autrijus offby1: you do this, eg:
17:48 autrijus eval 'my $sub = sub ($foo is rw) { $foo = 3 }; $sub($x)';
17:48 autrijus and then test if $x is 3.
17:49 theorbtwo todo_eval_is(eval 'sub plusplus($foo is rw) {$foo++;} my $x=3; plusplus($x); $x', 4);
17:49 offby1 you're expecting that to fail at the moment, right?
17:49 theorbtwo Yep.
17:49 autrijus yup. eval'' makes it fail in a harnessable fashion
17:49 autrijus journal up. take care, folks. :)
17:49 theorbtwo todo_... tests are for things that you presently expect to fail.
17:49 autrijus zzz &
17:49 theorbtwo Sleep well.
17:51 offby1 gotcha
17:51 * sorje is increasingly fascinated by pugs.. must resist.. exams next week.
17:52 offby1 what's remarkable is how short pugs' source code is.
17:52 sorje And the speed of the project is astonishing
17:53 offby1 What's the p6 equivalent of perl5's $@ -- the variable that holds the text from the last exception?
17:56 statico sorje: join the club
17:56 sorje The burden of a real life. ;-)
17:57 Odin-LAP Fuck real life.
17:58 Odin-LAP Viva la revolucion!
17:58 autrijus offby1: afaik that's unspecced. which may mean it's the same as perl5, or it's all united under $!. ask p6l? (I'm pretty sure it's p6l this time.)
17:58 offby1 autrijus: I see some of the existing tests use `$!', but that's wrapped in an "eval" ,which implies it doesn't yet work.
17:59 autrijus right.
17:59 theorbtwo p6l
17:59 Odin-LAP autrijus: Ehrm ... exceptions are pretty well defined, I think.
17:59 theorbtwo (p6l is when you aren't sure what the language is; p6c is when you you have questions about the compilers.)
17:59 Odin-LAP I think Apocalypse 4 tackles them rather verbosely...
18:00 offby1 For playing with pugs, I thought I should confine myself to Synopses and Exegeses.
18:01 autrijus A04 covers eval?
18:01 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
18:01 autrijus not seeing it covering eval"".
18:01 autrijus only eval{}
18:02 autrijus but my head is dizzy so maybe I'm missing something
18:02 autrijus offby1: Apoc is actually okay for things not specced in Syn
18:02 autrijus Exegesis is actually the least normative of the 3.
18:02 justatheory has quit IRC ()
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18:03 offby1 all dem Greek words!
18:03 theorbtwo When the Synopses and Apocolapses disagree, it's probably because the Syn has been updated more recently... but Apocs will sometimes cover things that Syns do not, because the Syns are meant to be... well, synopsies.
18:03 b6s has quit IRC ("leaving")
18:03 Odin-LAP autrijus: No, but it specifies exceptions... :p
18:04 Odin-LAP And I thought there was no eval {} anymore..?
18:04 autrijus yup there's try{} now
18:05 Odin-LAP Erm.
18:05 rooneg does eval have a return value?  I'd love to be able to get data out of eval '$x eq $y', for example, without having to construct code and stick it in the string i'm evaluating...
18:05 Odin-LAP YOWCH!
18:05 Odin-LAP There's lots and lots of talk about exceptions, and how exception handling and stuff should work in Apoc 4 ... almost none of it is in the synopsis...
18:05 autrijus eval does has a retval
18:06 justatheory has quit IRC (Client Quit)
18:07 rooneg in that case i need to figure out why my code isn't working ;-)
18:08 * offby1 finds his answer in A04
18:09 justatheory has joined #perl6
18:09 * rooneg sees the problem...  need a way to eval in caller's namespace...
18:11 autrijus ok, $! after eval is implemented.
18:12 autrijus rooneg: hmm. is there a specced way in p6 to do that?
18:12 rooneg i have no idea
18:12 autrijus in pugs we can use caller continuation to do that
18:12 autrijus but it's not considered proper p6 now
18:12 autrijus ask around?
18:12 * rooneg goes to look at the specs
18:15 autrijus r472. now really zzz &
18:16 autrijus btw, darcs and svn.perl.org should now both be synced per minute.
18:19 john r472: src/Prim.hs:284: Variable not in scope: `glob'
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18:27 rooneg here's an interesting one.  $CALLER::foo doesn't play nicely with :=
18:27 rooneg sub foo { my $x = "foo"; my $y := $x; bar(); }  sub bar { return $CALLER::x eq $CALLER::y; }
18:28 rooneg in bar when it evaluates $CALLER::y it looks for $x in the local scope, not the caller's scope
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19:08 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
19:08 nothingmuch evening!
19:11 pasteling has joined #perl6
19:15 nothingmuch ah, we have a pasteling, how fun
19:19 stevan has joined #perl6
19:20 nothingmuch hola stevan
19:20 stevan hola nothingmuch
19:20 stevan did you get drunk and dance the other night?
19:22 nothingmuch no
19:22 nothingmuch we drove an hour
19:22 nothingmuch got drunk
19:22 nothingmuch saw the line, went back to the car
19:22 nothingmuch (driver did not get drunk)
19:22 nothingmuch drove to another place
19:22 nothingmuch didn't find it
19:22 nothingmuch drove back to the first
19:22 nothingmuch waited some more in line
19:23 nothingmuch helped an idiot who got his jeep stuck in the mud wiggle it a bit
19:23 nothingmuch and then went home
19:23 nothingmuch disgruntled and looking to make something of the night i started with YAHT
19:23 stevan sounds like lots of fun :)
19:23 nothingmuch since i was drunk i went a little slow, but i got somewhere eventually
19:23 stevan Drunken Haskell :P
19:23 nothingmuch beh
19:24 nothingmuch autrijus ows me big time now...
19:24 nothingmuch he promised try/catch
19:24 nothingmuch and by now i've done a bajillion more tests
19:24 nothingmuch i wonder if i can make him sign a contract to implement features i test for
19:25 stevan did you read his journal? he is apparently not in good shape
19:25 stevan nothingmuch: you did contribute didnt you?
19:25 nothingmuch i did read it
19:25 nothingmuch many of luke's commits from today were tests i submitted
19:25 nothingmuch zip.t, pipe.t, fixed int.t
19:25 nothingmuch then the file server came back up
19:26 stevan excellent
19:26 nothingmuch so i could resume real work
19:26 stevan hmm
19:26 stevan Prim.hs seems to be broken,.. I cant make the latest
19:26 nothingmuch now i'm back from work and orchestra
19:26 nothingmuch so i can get back to fun
19:26 nothingmuch but first! coffee beckons
19:28 * nothingmuch wonders if autrijus could set up a subscription payment link
19:28 nothingmuch if forgot how to whip up the URL
19:31 seano has joined #perl6
19:35 lucs nothingmuch: "work and orchestra" Are you a professional musician?
19:35 nothingmuch no
19:35 nothingmuch orchestra is my hobby
19:35 lucs Ah.
19:35 nothingmuch just started playing the bass this year
19:35 lucs Cool.
19:35 nothingmuch so i get to play in a little kids thing
19:36 nothingmuch my teacher's old teacher organizes it
19:36 lucs What are you guys working on?
19:36 nothingmuch 3 pieces right now
19:36 edgewalk1r is now known as edgewalker
19:36 nothingmuch bach's brandenburg symphony,
19:36 nothingmuch mahler's 3rd symphony
19:36 nothingmuch and something i don't know yet
19:36 lucs NIce stuff.
19:36 nothingmuch and i'm too lazy to get up and grab the sheet music to find out what it's called
19:36 nothingmuch it's very silly
19:37 nothingmuch we have 30 violinists
19:37 nothingmuch 3 of them boys
19:37 nothingmuch 3-4 are advanced, and can really get it right most of the time
19:37 nothingmuch the rest are at my level, sort of
19:37 nothingmuch there's me
19:37 lucs Oh well. I'm sure it's fun anyway :)
19:37 nothingmuch and 3 cellists on rotations
19:37 nothingmuch and a recent addition was someone playing a recorder
19:38 nothingmuch he is surprisingly good
19:38 seano has quit IRC ("foo")
19:38 nothingmuch for his age he seems to understand
19:38 nothingmuch more than most
19:38 nothingmuch anywho, it's good fun, even though we sound horrible
19:38 nothingmuch and i try to take it a bit seriously
19:38 nothingmuch at work i'm an integrator and whore-geek
19:38 lucs Were you playing another instrument before the bass?
19:39 nothingmuch when there's something no one else can afford to learn how to do i'm tasked with it
19:39 nothingmuch guitars
19:39 nothingmuch which i still occasionally dabble with
19:39 nothingmuch and friends' drums
19:39 nothingmuch but not enough to say i play
19:39 lucs The fretless aspect of the bass must be interesting :)
19:39 nothingmuch and piano
19:39 nothingmuch i have a fretless fender jazz bass
19:39 nothingmuch i consider it a guitar
19:39 lucs Ah, cool.
19:39 nothingmuch it's very different techincally from the double bass
19:40 nothingmuch regardless of the arco which is altogether different
19:40 lucs We don't hear of Fender bows, for example :)
19:40 nothingmuch and this time i'm getting tought right too
19:40 nothingmuch taught?
19:40 nothingmuch yes, speller likes that
19:40 nothingmuch well, not only the bowing
19:40 nothingmuch the left hand works very differently
19:41 nothingmuch i know the notes and where they are, and knew them when i started
19:41 nothingmuch but the control is gained quite differently
19:42 nothingmuch hmm
19:42 nothingmuch do we have anything i can use to truncate a string in pugs?
19:42 nothingmuch substr doesn't seem to be there
19:42 nothingmuch rules aren't either
19:43 stevan chop and chomp I think are implemented
19:44 nothingmuch reverse?
19:44 stevan dont know
19:44 nothingmuch ugg
19:44 nothingmuch i can probably fake a substr with chop, and array ops
19:44 nothingmuch if it returns correctly
19:45 nothingmuch chop is not tested
19:45 * nothingmuch writes
19:51 nothingmuch wow, many bugs in chop
19:51 nothingmuch my @array = ("Foo", "bar");
19:52 nothingmuch chop(@array)
19:52 nothingmuch @array is now eq ("foo ba")
19:52 nothingmuch doesn't even work as chop($str, $str2)
19:53 sorje has quit IRC ("brb")
19:56 sorje has joined #perl6
19:58 justatheory has joined #perl6
19:58 nothingmuch ugh! %hash = ( "key", "value", \n ... ) doesn't parse
20:02 madhouse has joined #perl6
20:08 Khisanth perl6 still has chop?
20:08 nothingmuch why not?
20:09 Limbic_Region but doesn't it have a pohc? (remove first character of a string)
20:10 integral character, byte or grapheme? ;-)
20:10 buu_sleeping is now known as buu
20:10 Limbic_Region code point of course
20:10 nothingmuch does anybody have the capacity to fix r472?
20:10 Khisanth nothingmuch: do people really have to remove one character that often that there needs to be an operator for it?
20:10 nothingmuch $! being set after eval fail is broke compilation of Prim.hs
20:11 nothingmuch i don't know
20:11 shapr ah, is thatwhat happened?
20:11 nothingmuch i think removing a feature that is not problematic is not a wise choice for backwards compatibility
20:11 nothingmuch i use it occasionally
20:11 nothingmuch although i use chomp more often
20:11 nothingmuch especially on arrays
20:11 nothingmuch especially with -F
20:11 Khisanth backwards compatibility and perl6 don't exactly go together considering how many things it breaks
20:12 nothingmuch or rather equivelently oriented programming
20:12 nothingmuch well, it breaks things around sytnax
20:12 nothingmuch or features which really shouldn't be there (formats)
20:12 nothingmuch but a basic, unintrusive operator...
20:12 nothingmuch beh
20:12 nothingmuch i wouldn't really mind it being put in perl6's Scalar::Util
20:14 mdiep has quit IRC ()
20:14 nothingmuch how do i specify which tests to 'make test'?
20:16 john has left "Leaving"
20:16 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Induhvidual quote: "That'll put the monkey in your court." [Time wasted online: 2hrs 14mins 58secs]")
20:18 shapr How do I run the tests?
20:18 nothingmuch 'perl Makefile.pl'
20:18 nothingmuch .PL, sorry
20:18 shapr ohh, make test from the line above maybe?
20:18 nothingmuch 'make' to compile
20:18 nothingmuch 'make test'
20:18 nothingmuch or './pugs t/op/test.t'
20:18 nothingmuch or 'export HARNESS_PERL=$PWD/pugs'
20:18 nothingmuch and then 'prove t/op/test.t'
20:19 shapr ok, I think fixed the the Prim.hs not compiling.
20:19 nothingmuch *kiss*
20:19 nothingmuch for testing 'my $var is constant'
20:19 nothingmuch t/op/is_constant.t?
20:19 nothingmuch t/op/is.t?
20:19 nothingmuch t/op/container_traits.t?
20:20 xerox Why you haskell people are into perl6 ?
20:21 shapr Which Haskell people?
20:21 nothingmuch shapr - did you commit?
20:22 shapr No, because I'm using darcs and my local mail agent is broken. But the diff is one line :-)
20:22 nothingmuch i gave up on darcs
20:22 nothingmuch i'll have to make svk darcs native to be happy
20:22 xerox shapr, you and other I saw, I think.
20:22 nothingmuch using svn now, because i was getting tired of resolving conflicts from my own patches
20:22 nothingmuch what is the fix?
20:23 shapr put "    glob <- askGlobal" on line 284
20:23 shapr of Prim.hs
20:24 nothingmuch beh!
20:24 nothingmuch the last stament in a do construct must be an expression
20:24 shapr I like darcs, it's easy to start with, and easy to use. And I like hacking on Haskell apps, so that's nice too.
20:24 nothingmuch line 285
20:24 nothingmuch darcs is wonderful
20:24 nothingmuch i wish i could use it everywhere
20:24 shapr I'm using the darcs repo, maybe svn has something different?
20:24 nothingmuch but for that svk needs to be multi backend and two way
20:25 nothingmuch maybe i'm stupid and i mucked something up
20:25 nothingmuch ah
20:25 nothingmuch spaces vs. tabs
20:25 nothingmuch lets see if that fixes compilation
20:25 shapr I never use tabs.
20:25 buu tabs!
20:25 buu Tabs are <3
20:25 nothingmuch nonono
20:25 nothingmuch don't start please
20:26 nothingmuch i won't be able to ask questions!
20:26 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("tiuq\")
20:26 buu shapr: If you would just use tabs, all your problems would go away!
20:26 nothingmuch huh?
20:26 nothingmuch src/Prim.hs:288: Warning: Defined but not used: glob
20:26 buu Recently I was poor and living on the streets, so I started to use tabs. Now I make 250 grand a month!
20:26 nothingmuch oh
20:26 nothingmuch that's from 2 lines down
20:26 shapr Yah, I dunno what's up with that, but the tests pass.
20:27 * nothingmuch will remove the line and see what happens
20:28 nothingmuch tests still pas
20:28 nothingmuch i'll ci your fix with that line commented out, how does that sound?
20:28 shapr sure
20:30 shapr Are there failing tests that I can attempt to implement?
20:30 nothingmuch grep -r 'todo_' t
20:30 stevan Is Prim.hs is still broken?
20:30 shapr ah
20:30 nothingmuch stevan: shapr fixed it
20:30 nothingmuch i'm committing
20:30 nothingmuch as soon as make test finishes
20:31 nothingmuch i would be very very happy if you do t/base/given.t
20:31 madhouse has quit IRC ()
20:31 theorb has joined #perl6
20:31 nothingmuch but i think that requires smartmatch
20:31 stevan nothingmuch: ok
20:31 nothingmuch hola orb
20:31 stevan nothingmuch: if I do t/base/given.t? the haskell for it?
20:31 nothingmuch shapr: maybe more urgent: t/op/int.t
20:32 nothingmuch stevan: sorry, i didn't understand what you meant
20:32 theorb Hm, has the fix for the src/Prim.hs:284 not landed yet, or is there a problem with my SVN?
20:32 stevan nothingmuch: me either :)
20:32 nothingmuch i'm committing as i type
20:32 stevan theorb: nothingmuch is still testing it
20:32 trexy_ has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:33 * shapr tries to figure out how to enable one test at a time.
20:33 nothingmuch shapr - 'export HARNESS_PERL=$PWD/pugs'
20:33 nothingmuch then use 'prove'
20:33 rooneg shapr: just run ./pugs t/path/to/foo.t
20:33 nothingmuch or just ./pugs t/test.t
20:33 shapr ah
20:33 nothingmuch committed.
20:33 nothingmuch shapr++
20:33 Cale has joined #perl6
20:34 shapr But, I want to run all the tests, and add one new failing test.
20:34 stevan prove t/*
20:34 nothingmuch make test will test everything
20:34 nothingmuch prove t/ will work with HARNESS_PERL set correctly
20:34 nothingmuch (make test just sets HARNESS_PERL before running Test::Harness, which prove is based on, btw)
20:34 nothingmuch stevan: that won't run nested tests, and will run editor backups, etc
20:35 shapr This is my first time using anything Perl since '98 or so.
20:35 nothingmuch prove -r t/ will run stuff recursively
20:35 theorb Welcome back, shapr.
20:35 * shapr grins
20:35 buu shapr: I'm so sorry!
20:36 nothingmuch hmm
20:36 nothingmuch $! is not really set to the value of die ""
20:36 nothingmuch is that a problem?
20:36 nothingmuch it contains it
20:36 nothingmuch die "foo"
20:36 nothingmuch $! eq 'Verror "foo" (......)
20:37 nothingmuch anybody want to rule for "my $var is constant" test?
20:37 nothingmuch otherwise i'm committing as t/op/is_constant.t
20:37 nothingmuch as that makes the most sense for me
20:38 theorb Hm, well, makes more sense then any existing directory, but t/var/is_constant.t might make more sense.
20:38 rooneg might as well.  it can always be renamed later if someone doesn't like that name.
20:39 nothingmuch i've heard of 'is' being an operator
20:39 shapr I really enjoy test-driven-development. This is the best way to have specifications.
20:39 nothingmuch what's more, since this is testing perl6 in perl6, to test we need perl6
20:39 theorb Is can certianly be an operator; however the interesting part is the behavior on the variable, not the operator.
20:40 nothingmuch so tests tend to create themselves very very rapidly
20:40 nothingmuch ok, good point
20:40 theorb s/on/of/
20:40 nothingmuch var/constant is an oxymoron though ;-)
20:41 theorb And?  Never stopped us before...
20:41 shapr nothingmuch: both t/op/int.t and t/base/given.t appear to pass.
20:42 nothingmuch shapr - run them with './pugs t/op/int.t'
20:42 nothingmuch this will show you 'not ok blah blah # TODO
20:42 nothingmuch this means we know it will fail
20:42 nothingmuch so this is ok
20:42 nothingmuch once the feature is implemented you get 'ok ... # TODO'
20:42 nothingmuch which is an error
20:42 nothingmuch (unexpected success)
20:42 nothingmuch so you correct the test
20:43 shapr Hm, they all say ok.
20:43 nothingmuch so maybe it was fixed
20:44 nothingmuch did you update? luke committed this about 12 hours ago
20:44 shapr Ah, given has TODOs
20:44 lucs I think int() was fixed a bit earlier.
20:45 lucs autrijus++
20:45 nothingmuch oh my
20:45 nothingmuch even based on his log messagve
20:45 nothingmuch he deserves another donation
20:45 trexy_ has joined #perl6
20:45 nothingmuch journal entry
20:47 offby1 has left "No reason"
20:47 nothingmuch does substr remain generally unchanged?
20:52 theorb Hmm?
20:52 nothingmuch should substr in generally work the same way?
20:53 theorb I don't recall anybody saying it was changing (but that doesn't mean much).
20:53 nothingmuch googling didn't help
20:54 theorb It's used in S09 without mentioning changes, so I'd assume it works the same.
20:56 nothingmuch that's the only thing i found
20:56 nothingmuch it does look the same
20:56 nothingmuch beh
20:56 nothingmuch someone can change the test later
20:56 theorb Ja.
20:57 shapr das machst spaß
20:58 * theorb shouldn't use random bits of German, because it makes people asusme that he actually speaks it.
20:58 nothingmuch =)
20:58 shapr ich habe keine ahnung!
20:58 nothingmuch how are you gettting along with it?
20:59 shapr I'm from a little town in Alabama.
21:02 shapr My german isn't that great.
21:03 nothingmuch mine is non existent
21:03 lumi What's an ahnung?
21:03 nothingmuch my grandmother still doesn't forgive me
21:03 nothingmuch she's austrian
21:03 nothingmuch orb moved to germany recently, so he should know some by now
21:03 lumi I speak twenty seven or so random words of German
21:03 shapr lumi: idea or suspicion, "aning" in Swedish.
21:03 theorb I know a very little.
21:03 nothingmuch my german was very embarracing for my parents
21:04 shapr "Jag har ingen aning." is the same thing in Swedish.
21:04 nothingmuch i spoke only hebrew all the time
21:04 nothingmuch except for once
21:04 nothingmuch at my aunts wedding
21:04 lumi Not "inte"?
21:04 nothingmuch when i pointed to the cross (a very modern, metallic kind of cross)
21:05 nothingmuch and said 'ima, tiri' (look mom), 'et ha flukzoig haze' (at that airplane)
21:05 nothingmuch airplane was, ofcourse, in german
21:05 theorb Ooops.
21:05 nothingmuch the only word i ever did speak spontaneously,
21:05 shapr Nah, "ingen aning" is "no clue" whereas "Jag har inte aning" would be "I have not clue"
21:05 lumi Fluegzeug?
21:05 nothingmuch i guess
21:05 nothingmuch i don't know how to spell in german either
21:05 nothingmuch (and you know it, lumi)
21:05 lumi I'm just guessing though
21:05 lumi I can spell, I just can't speak :P
21:06 * theorb asks Jess how to spell it.
21:06 * theorb can't even spell in English.
21:06 * nothingmuch goes wild with ref to lvalue in substr
21:07 shapr I wasn't exactly born on the bayou, but I was born in Selma, Alabama. I spent 27 or so years living in the USA.
21:07 theorb Flugzeug, apparently.
21:07 lumi You should've said Kreutze (I think it's spelt)
21:08 lumi A friend of mine is always listening to Bach's passions, so he knows all those sorts of words
21:08 theorb Ah, Selma, famous for being the birthplace of much of the civil rights movement.
21:08 theorb ...kicking and screaming.
21:08 ingy which svn repos are people using now?
21:08 nothingmuch svn.openfoundry.org
21:08 theorb Kreuz, sayth the Jess.
21:09 nothingmuch i do, anyway
21:09 shapr My mother was working at the Public Library in Birmingham when the 'Race Riots' happened. She heard about it on the radio and looked out the front window. She said she saw about fifty people yelling, but that wasn't quite as many as the radio claimed.
21:10 nothingmuch anybody up to date with recent bleadperl fixes to substr lvalue?
21:24 theorb Odd...
21:24 theorb sub foo { my $a = 2; } say foo();
21:24 theorb ...gives me bool::true
21:25 theorb ...and for some reason I seem to be stuck in ? mode.
21:26 nothingmuch t/op/substr.t committed
21:26 nothingmuch someone please look at it
21:26 nothingmuch i converted it to to perl5
21:26 nothingmuch then made sure it passed, and converted back
21:26 larsen has joined #perl6
21:26 nothingmuch hola larsen
21:26 larsen nothingmuch: Hello.
21:27 theorb Allo, larsen.
21:28 theorb Why all the evals?  Is substr() not even parsed as an as-yet-unknown sub?
21:29 nothingmuch it's an unknown sub
21:29 nothingmuch it barks looking for the proto
21:29 nothingmuch ugg
21:29 nothingmuch what's $/ in p6?
21:29 nothingmuch s/proto/signature/
21:30 theorb Hmm, we have eval '', but not try {} ?
21:30 nothingmuch no
21:30 nothingmuch that was the first test i gave
21:30 nothingmuch autrijus promised to add it
21:30 nothingmuch but it requires given
21:30 nothingmuch which we don't have either
21:30 nothingmuch so i submitted a test for that to
21:30 nothingmuch o
21:30 nothingmuch that needs smart match
21:31 nothingmuch it needs $!
21:31 nothingmuch etc etc etc
21:31 theorb Being made into an attribute of the FH, I think.
21:31 nothingmuch hmm
21:31 theorb Hmm, try doesn't need any of that; catch does.
21:31 nothingmuch so when you chomp a string
21:31 theorb Objects would be a great goodness.
21:31 nothingmuch right, but the task is still daunting
21:32 nothingmuch i'm bugging autrijus on it daily
21:32 theorb You don't have to chomp strings generally... just read them, and they should come chomped for you.
21:32 theorb Or at least, that was the theory...
21:32 theorb At some point.
21:32 nothingmuch there's a chomp operator
21:32 nothingmuch so i'd like to test it ;-)
21:32 theorb I really need to start re-reading the synopses.
21:32 justatheory hrm?
21:33 theorb I read them all when they came out... but it's been quite a while, and there's been updates.
21:34 theorb I no longer remember what was set in silly-putty, and what is just something Larry was throwing around in an email or two, but decided against.
21:34 nothingmuch perlbot, nopaste?
21:34 perlbot Paste your code here and #perl will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/perl
21:35 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 192.168.2.16 pasted "chomp test" (3 lines, 136B) at http://sial.org/pbot/7932
21:35 nothingmuch is this worth anything?
21:36 theorb Do they pass?
21:36 nothingmuch yes
21:36 theorb Donno.  I thought the API of chomp was getting changed, but that may have been completely idle fantasy.
21:37 nothingmuch i think it's valuable as just a flag that gets raised if something changes
21:37 nothingmuch forcing the person changing chomp around to fix the test too
21:37 nothingmuch although i don't know how meaningful that test is
21:37 theorb Hmm, the non-symetery of -- vs ++ is annoying to me.
21:38 nothingmuch -- vs ++?
21:38 nothingmuch autoinc and autodec?
21:38 theorb Comment and list concat.  In haskell.
21:38 nothingmuch ah
21:38 nothingmuch heh
21:38 nothingmuch i didn't notice that
21:39 nothingmuch any one care to vote whether to add chomp.t or not?
21:40 theorb If nothing else, it serves as a bit of a reminder that it's underspecified.
21:40 theorb ...when somebody does a diff in the morning.
21:40 nothingmuch hmm
21:41 jdv79 has joined #perl6
21:42 theorb Though if it's really unspeced, put it in the proper dir.
21:43 theorb Hmm?  One of your substr tests unexpectedly succeeded for me.
21:43 nothingmuch http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2004/03/p6pdigest/20040314.html
21:43 nothingmuch see Mutating methods
21:43 nothingmuch huh?
21:44 nothingmuch crap, i forgot a plan for it
21:44 theorb t/unspecced is where tests for behavior that isn't part of any Syn, etc, are supposed to go... I think.
21:44 nothingmuch oh, crap
21:44 nothingmuch i see
21:45 * nothingmuch was too trigger happy
21:45 nothingmuch wait, that shouldn't happen
21:45 nothingmuch lines 44, 45
21:45 nothingmuch the eval should just die
21:45 nothingmuch and $r remain undef
21:47 iblechbot has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
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21:49 saorge has joined #perl6
21:49 nothingmuch i'll move chop.t to unspecced too
21:49 nothingmuch i'll also add t/op/readline_chomped.t
21:50 nothingmuch based on exegesis 02
21:50 theorb Cool.
21:52 chansen has quit IRC ()
21:52 nothingmuch blammo
21:53 metaperl has joined #perl6
21:54 metaperl has quit IRC (Client Quit)
21:54 * nothingmuch continues trying to unit test exegesis 02 example
21:55 Burgergold has joined #perl6
21:58 FOAD has joined #perl6
21:58 FOAD Hi.
21:59 nothingmuch hi, FOAD!
21:59 theorb Hello, man with name not expandable in mixed company.
21:59 nothingmuch shift+f
21:59 nothingmuch <tab>?
21:59 nothingmuch oh
22:00 FOAD Hi nothing, orb.
22:00 shapr eff the ineffable
22:00 FOAD Meh, it's something else completely.
22:00 nothingmuch google define: foad says nothing
22:00 * nothingmuch has no wtf program
22:00 theorb Fuck Off And Die.
22:00 nothingmuch ah
22:00 FOAD I'm shocked.
22:01 theorb I did that earlier.  240V hurts!
22:01 nothingmuch 240 is much worse than 110
22:01 nothingmuch when we lived in the US i got zapped once
22:01 nothingmuch it wasn't /that/ bad
22:01 nothingmuch but here i got a burn
22:04 nothingmuch beh
22:04 * nothingmuch needs help with exegesis 2 example
22:04 nothingmuch anybody care for subetha fun?
22:04 nothingmuch i've always wanted to try it
22:04 theorb subetha?
22:05 nothingmuch google for sub-etha-edit
22:05 nothingmuch it's a collaborative editor thingy
22:05 lumi Okie
22:05 lumi I'm not sure what that was
22:05 theorb Ahh.
22:05 lumi But I'd love to try it
22:06 theorb It does sound kind of nifty.  Should try it with Jess some time.
22:06 nothingmuch you use macs, orb?
22:06 theorb Nope.
22:06 theorb It's mac-specific?
22:06 nothingmuch so...?
22:06 lumi For now it seems so
22:07 theorb Sad.
22:07 nothingmuch maybe you can get them to port it to gnustep
22:07 nothingmuch lumi - when netstat is slow, do 'netstat -lan'
22:07 nothingmuch easy mnemonit
22:07 nothingmuch c
22:08 nothingmuch i should have PMed that, sorry
22:08 crysflame .g subethaedit
22:09 crysflame there's a kwiki plugin for interacting with subethaedit, iirc
22:09 nothingmuch uhuh
22:09 theorb Hmm?  The other way around makes sense...?
22:12 nothingmuch anybody interested is welcome to try and edit woobling.org
22:14 theorb Hm, I think I need a dead-tree version of YAHT.
22:14 theorb I want to hack pugs, but I'm not sure where to start.
22:15 nothingmuch just start with YAHT
22:15 nothingmuch it's really simple
22:15 nothingmuch i was drunk and i got pretty far
22:15 theorb I did, and it is.
22:15 nothingmuch bugging the eyes?
22:15 nothingmuch taking up screen space?
22:15 theorb But I get partway and get distracted; that ha[[ens to me a lot less with dead-tree.
22:16 nothingmuch ah
22:16 * nothingmuch asks to duplex print
22:16 nothingmuch or print a chapter, then when done, print the next one on reverse side
22:16 * theorb wishes he still had access to a university printer of some sort.
22:16 lumi What/where YAHT?
22:16 theorb (Paying for ink-jet ink)--
22:17 theorb perlbot, YAHT?
22:17 lumi . . Haskell Tutorial?
22:17 nothingmuch laser printers++
22:17 nothingmuch is anyone less of a perl-6 grasshopper and more of a perl-6 chicken going to help lumi and I out?
22:17 nothingmuch s/I/me/
22:18 theorb perlbot, define YAHT Yet Another Haskell Tutorial http://www.isi.edu/~hdaume/htut/
22:18 luqui has joined #perl6
22:18 theorb Hmm?  What are you looking for?
22:18 nothingmuch hola luqui
22:18 Khisanth YAHT is ...
22:18 nothingmuch to actually get the exegesis 2 example sort of working
22:18 theorb YAHT is Yet Another Haskell Tutorial -- http://www.isi.edu/~hdaume/htut/
22:19 Khisanth perlbot YAHT is Yet Another Haskell Tutorial -- http://www.isi.edu/~hdaume/htut/
22:19 perlbot added YAHT to the database
22:19 Khisanth perlbot: YAHT?
22:19 perlbot Yet Another Haskell Tutorial -- http://www.isi.edu/~hdaume/htut/
22:19 theorb Thanks, Khisanth
22:19 luqui hola nothingmuch
22:19 Khisanth I think it also has "is also"
22:20 Khisanth too bad there isn't an universal irc bot interface :)
22:20 crysflame depends on what you consider universal :)
22:21 crysflame working on getting purl in here.. if i set up locking on her factoid databases, it might just happen.
22:21 Khisanth well they are all very similiar but different enough that commands that work with one will not work with another
22:22 lumi Which is intentional
22:24 theorb Hmm, we still need some literals: inf, nan, and '...'.
22:24 nothingmuch isn't ... pretty much a synonym for 'die "this is not yet implemented"'?
22:24 theorb Yes.
22:25 theorb (At runtime; at compile time in the presence of a pragmata.)
22:26 theorb Is there any document on what tests belong where?
22:27 luqui theorb: what at compile time?
22:27 theorb IIRC, there's supposed to be a pragmata that makes any use of the ... thingy die at compile time.
22:28 luqui uh no
22:28 luqui you prototype with ...
22:28 luqui so the pragma would be 'no prototypes'
22:28 luqui which is just silly
22:28 theorb Um, 'no prototyping' makes more sense to me.  Or 'use production'.
22:29 afbach has joined #perl6
22:29 luqui I mean prototypes like Perl5's 'sub foo($$);'
22:29 luqui is 'sub foo($x, $y) {...}' in perl 6
22:29 theorb I know; prototype is a somewhat overloaded term.
22:30 luqui it just doesn't make any sense to disallow ... at compile time.  you wouldn't be able to predeclare anything.
22:30 theorb That's a special use of the yaddayaddayadda operator.
22:31 theorb Er, special term.
22:31 luqui oh, so you mean anywhere but in a {...} it would be disallowed
22:31 luqui that makes a bit more sense
22:33 theorb Bah, groups.google.com is broken (at least for me)... but the only hit it comes up with for "yadda yadda yadda" pragmata is mine, so it's probably just a combination of bad memory and wishful thinking.
22:33 luqui yeah, I didn't remember anything about it...
22:34 theorb Oh, wait, now I'm seeing one by you, but google won't show it to me.
22:34 luqui there is no group perl-perl6-language
22:34 luqui stupid ggroups
22:35 lumi That needs tr/-/./ then
22:36 luqui ah, doing that in the address bar makes it work
22:38 afbach pardon - may I ask a question about t/03operator.t tests
22:39 theorb Yes, you may.  In fact, you have permission to ask any question you like about pugs.
22:40 afbach if I change the '>' to '<' on one test (all(@) > any(@) pugs
22:40 afbach fails to parse it 'unexepcted 'o'
22:40 afbach Sorry, I'm really new to IRC but I hoped it was the best way to get  a quick answer.
22:41 luqui afbach: I'm working on that problem right now
22:41 luqui the problem is that it's parsing < as the beginning of a subscript
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22:42 afbach Hmm, and "<=" choked it too, but the 'all infix op' test worked w/ a '<'
22:43 afbach Thanks, glad its a 'known' bug - I have to go start the grill for dinner
22:45 nothingmuch luqui: is that tested?
22:45 luqui it's a recent introduction
22:45 luqui so no
22:46 nothingmuch i'm creating t/syntax
22:47 theorb (Also known as eval STRING R Us.
22:48 nothingmuch hah
22:49 * theorb wonders if that's the right place to stick todo_is(eval 'my Int $i; $i=42;', 42, 'my indirect object types');
22:49 nothingmuch my int is more than syntax, methinks
22:50 theorb It is more then syntax, yeah, but the syntax is the first bit of it.
22:50 nothingmuch hmm
22:50 nothingmuch so you argue anything that is not yet parsed correctly should be put in t/syntax first
22:50 nothingmuch and then moved to t/(op|base|...) when ready?
22:50 theorb Hmm... yeah, on second thought, that doesn't make all that much sense.
22:50 nothingmuch (and possibly not yet implemented correctly?)
22:59 nothingmuch svn mv t/op/assign.t t/syntax/decl_vs_assign_prec.t ?
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23:02 nothingmuch should 'make test' use 'prove -r' instead of hard coded test list generated by Makefile.PL?
23:04 * theorb calls it a night.
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23:05 * shapr calls it a waste of brain cells and looks for the alcohol.
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23:27 nothingmuch anybody want to review a test of control blocks?
23:28 buu nothingmuch: Sounds like satan.
23:28 nothingmuch uhuh
23:29 nothingmuch most is commented out
23:29 nothingmuch because it's not parsed yet
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23:31 nothingmuch hola stevan
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23:33 nothingmuch given array @foo
23:34 nothingmuch whose elements are array refs
23:34 nothingmuch [ $var, [ @array ] ]
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23:34 nothingmuch +@foo[1][1] will yield the number of elems originally in @array
23:34 nothingmuch right?
23:36 nothingmuch luqui: could you please see a nasty test i wrote, tell me if it's ok?
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23:39 nothingmuch uh
23:39 nothingmuch my (@array, @other);
23:39 nothingmuch todo_is(+@array, 0, "array has nothing in it")
23:39 nothingmuch if my (@array, @other) = (), it is 0
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23:56 nothingmuch svn mv t/op/assign.t t/syntax/decl_vs_assign_prec.t
23:56 nothingmuch oops
23:56 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs/t/base/control_blocks.t
23:56 nothingmuch someone please post feedback
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