Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-03-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:00 nothingmuch perlbot nopaste
00:00 perlbot Paste your code here and #perl will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/perl
00:00 stevan theorbtwo: better get moving,.. or you wont make it to Pugs nirvana
00:01 stevan nothingmuch++
00:01 nothingmuch shit, pasted to #perl
00:01 stevan perlbot karma nothingmuch
00:01 perlbot Karma for nothingmuch: 16
00:01 stevan now we are even
00:01 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 212.143.91.217 pasted "diff of sub_named_params.t for linking" (44 lines, 1.4K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8350
00:02 nothingmuch in diff format, to stress what changed
00:02 theorbtwo Looks great!
00:02 stevan nothingmuch: can you paste the whole thing too
00:02 stevan diff does not give the whole picture
00:02 nothingmuch yup
00:03 Khisanth nothingmuch: could just replace the nopaste definition :)
00:03 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 212.143.91.217 pasted "sub_named_params.t - the complete modified version" (104 lines, 3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8351
00:03 theorbtwo I don't think you can replace them.
00:03 theorbtwo Just add a new one.
00:03 Khisanth perlbot: forget nopaste
00:03 nothingmuch Khisanth: that would annoy everyone on #perl, though, wouldn't it?
00:03 perlbot removed nopaste from the database
00:03 Khisanth nothingmuch: #perl doesn't use it much!
00:04 nothingmuch ah
00:04 Khisanth I mean that specific definition
00:04 stevan nothingmuch: this looks good to me
00:04 stevan nothingmuch++
00:04 stevan nothingmuch++
00:04 nothingmuch nothignmuch--; # please, don't get carried away
00:04 theorbtwo perlbot, learn nopaste as Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
00:04 perlbot added nopaste to the database
00:04 nothingmuch ingy: does that clarify things?
00:05 nothingmuch perlbot nopaste
00:05 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
00:05 nothingmuch hmm.. doesn't it have sprintf like formatting for channel, user who called it, etc? that seems, err, mandatory in a bot
00:05 nothingmuch and then it should implement ??{ } so we can, err
00:06 theorbtwo perlbot, highest karma?
00:06 perlbot The top 5 karma entries: autrijus: 21, ingy: 18, nothingmuch: 18, stevan: 16, ~wegstar: 13
00:06 theorbtwo Wow, nm, you're kicking ass.
00:06 nothingmuch hah
00:06 stevan and its nothingmuch and ingy neck and neck
00:06 ingy nothingmuch++
00:06 nothingmuch ingy *= 2
00:06 ingy riight
00:07 theorbtwo nm, ??{} would make the bot trivial to root.
00:07 nothingmuch autrijus.=factorial
00:07 ingy Ok, color me dense but I still don't totally grok it
00:07 stevan autrijus + Inf
00:07 nothingmuch theorbtwo: uhh, err, i didn't mean it in /that/ sense, we would only make *good* use of it ;-)
00:07 ingy what is supposed to happen automagically
00:07 nothingmuch ingy: this lets us run catalog_tests.pl
00:07 nothingmuch and get pretty links in the output to the synopses, as were explicitly specified
00:08 nothingmuch perhaps with the match stripped fof
00:08 nothingmuch but much more importantly
00:08 theorbtwo ingy: Produce a HTML or whatever version of the test itself with links to the design docs, and a version of design docs with links to the tests.
00:08 nothingmuch let us generate copies of the synopses with backlinks to the tests themselves
00:08 nothingmuch so that we can know what parts of the specification is tested where
00:08 stevan sort of a Devel::Cover for the Synopsis
00:10 ingy Are you trying to suck in parts of the synopsis?
00:10 nothingmuch not suck them in, just backlink from the synopses to the tests
00:10 theorbtwo Can't do that; we didn't specify an extent.
00:10 nothingmuch and place the backlinks in the right place in the synopses
00:10 ingy ah. ok!!
00:10 ingy got it
00:10 nothingmuch so, final thoughts before we get this started?
00:11 ingy um sure
00:12 ingy one thing is this...
00:12 ingy put your section name in double quotes
00:12 ingy this is part of Pod
00:12 nothingmuch ingy: i'm scared of that, because we need to premunge the links to make them actual pod
00:12 nothingmuch i think this can be the output
00:13 nothingmuch but i wouldn't like to fudge with quoting
00:13 ingy L<Text|page/"Section Name" other stuff>
00:13 stevan ok,.. dinner time,..
00:13 stevan nothingmuch: all sounds good to me
00:13 nothingmuch come back quick
00:13 nothingmuch ciao, stevan
00:13 stevan nothingmuch: not likely,.. but I will be back later tonight
00:13 ingy in fact Pod requires the double quotes for multi word sections
00:14 nothingmuch ingy: i know that, but i find it, err, annoying. In theory. You've probably dealt with this.. is it really crappy to implement?
00:14 ingy nothingmuch: is your L<...> supposed to be Pod?
00:14 nothingmuch it's easier to be strict in what you emit
00:14 nothingmuch i mean, if we translate this pseudo-pod or pseudo-kwid link format to pod or kwid, we'll make it valid
00:15 nothingmuch but much harder to be lax in what you permit
00:15 nothingmuch well, you know what, why don't we double quote
00:15 ingy ok, then i suggest making the psuedo link look like neither Pod nor Kwid
00:15 nothingmuch it's not really that complicated
00:15 ingy no it's not
00:16 nothingmuch ingy: i actually disagree with that.. I think it should be intuitive
00:16 nothingmuch and if it's quoted and stuff, it might actually look valid to ...
00:16 nothingmuch not that that's the issue, since we're converting
00:17 nothingmuch basically, slightly modifying an existing format gives us both an OK design to start with, and familiar semantics
00:17 ingy nothingmuch: if you generate html from the pod/kwid in the page, would it include your links?
00:17 nothingmuch L<> is obvious as a link to anyone who wrote a bit of pod, ever
00:17 nothingmuch yes
00:17 ingy so it is part of the Pod
00:18 nothingmuch but the generation of either (by catalog_tests.pl, and by the reverse for syns) will first munge that first
00:18 nothingmuch i think
00:18 ingy and not a psuedoback link
00:18 nothingmuch like it makes some pod from the individual test cases
00:18 ingy so why not use real Pod?
00:18 nothingmuch because it's not flexible enough
00:19 theorbtwo I think it being intuitive is much much much more important then it being POD or Kwiwi.
00:19 ingy =begin backlink
00:19 ingy ...
00:19 ingy =end backlink
00:19 nothingmuch that makes it impossible to stick in trailing comments
00:19 Macdee has joined #perl6
00:19 nothingmuch and makes it 3 lines, instead of 1
00:19 ingy ?
00:19 nothingmuch and something that must be parsed wholly and translated
00:19 nothingmuch which can't just be done with perl -ne
00:19 nothingmuch unless you modify $/ to be something very clever
00:19 ingy perl6 gives you this though
00:19 ingy for free
00:20 nothingmuch our scripts are going to be perl5 for now, we want it working tonight
00:20 nothingmuch and when perl6 will have rules to munge this, we may translate
00:20 ingy %=POD
00:20 ingy well why not try a litle harder now
00:20 nothingmuch oh, in that sense,
00:21 nothingmuch $perl + expression(); # %=POD ...
00:21 nothingmuch is that it?
00:21 ingy no
00:21 ingy %=POD is a global that contains the POD DOM
00:21 nothingmuch ah,
00:21 ingy it is not currently available
00:21 nothingmuch right
00:22 nothingmuch i think we're beeing too hypothetical
00:22 nothingmuch people come in and they ask 'what can i do?
00:22 theorbtwo /metoo.
00:22 nothingmuch and we say 'uh, we have no clue'
00:22 ingy you should really read Damian's p6l post carefully
00:22 nothingmuch that is a problem that needs to be fixed here
00:22 ingy anyway,...
00:22 nothingmuch got a message id?
00:22 ingy what to do now.
00:23 ingy I would make a new non-L code for this
00:23 nothingmuch ingy: can you whip up a good format in 30 seconds?
00:23 ingy since it is different, or is it?
00:24 ingy I can whip up something quickly, sure
00:24 theorbtwo It's not.
00:24 nothingmuch ingy: it's really L<> semantics, exactly
00:24 theorbtwo This is something that it'd always be good to be able to do with links, thta presently can't be.
00:24 theorbtwo that.
00:24 nothingmuch just with additonal 'skip until you match the following regex' thing
00:24 ingy I like the idea that you make it a comment for now
00:24 ingy nothingmuch: ok
00:24 nothingmuch which, given your comment about double quoting sections, might actually be valid, too
00:25 nothingmuch if the separator is not a third slash, but whitespace
00:25 nothingmuch but i bet that's unspecced, and thus unimplemented by 99% of pod parsers
00:25 ingy nothingmuch: but what is even better is to not just get a starting point but also an ending point
00:25 ingy then you can INCLUDE<...>
00:25 ingy a section is currently includable
00:25 nothingmuch ingy: i think that complicates the output format
00:25 nothingmuch but here is an idea i shared:
00:26 nothingmuch sorry, i had, but didn't share yet:
00:26 nothingmuch if the pattern matches at the first part of a regex, it's placed before, if it matches after or in the middle of a section, it applies to it as a unit
00:26 nothingmuch errm, i don't like including
00:26 nothingmuch this is hypertext
00:26 nothingmuch and we are in the tabbed browsing era
00:27 theorbtwo Hmm...
00:27 theorbtwo I'm not sure what you mean by first part/middle/after...
00:27 ingy including can be a good thing, but continue
00:27 nothingmuch ingy: do you have a good argument for inclusion?
00:27 theorbtwo But we could allow REs to capture.
00:27 ingy nothingmuch: it is actually called /transclusion/
00:27 nothingmuch theorbtwo: like, the links i used in sub_named_.*.t
00:28 ingy that's the real term for this
00:28 nothingmuch they reference the middle of the sections
00:28 nothingmuch they apply to it all
00:28 ingy any part of the Pod DOM is currently transcludable
00:28 nothingmuch but if i were to say, match the begining of the sentance
00:28 nothingmuch but i don't like this idea
00:28 nothingmuch ingy: why would we want to do that in the test/syn mapping?
00:28 theorbtwo ingy: And by "currently" you mean...
00:29 nothingmuch to get verbatim sections of synopsis copied into the output htmls of tests?
00:29 nothingmuch theorbtwo++ # transclusion by re captures is very beautiful
00:29 nothingmuch "@+" should do it, no?
00:30 ingy yes, why not make the regexp part capturing?
00:30 nothingmuch oh, no, that's offsetts
00:30 ingy @- and @+ could do it
00:30 nothingmuch well, sure, if you want to implement that
00:31 nothingmuch but i really don't see how it could benefit readability or clarity
00:31 ingy $1 || substr($text, $-[0], $+[0])
00:31 nothingmuch i expect the following search path to be typical:
00:31 theorbtwo Donno... could.
00:31 nothingmuch user pops into #perl
00:31 nothingmuch says 'what can i do?'
00:32 nothingmuch $regular says 'errm, read the synopses, see what you like, and if it's already tested, there'll be a little link'
00:32 nothingmuch 'you can see if the test looks good to you, or if you can add, or if nothing is linked at all, just add a test'
00:32 nothingmuch clicking on the link will give back the catatlog_tests.pl output
00:32 nothingmuch which has sections per test
00:32 nothingmuch with links to synopses, and test cases layed out
00:33 ingy seems like transclusion could be real useful there
00:33 nothingmuch with the descriptions from test cases (is(... "")
00:33 nothingmuch included too
00:33 nothingmuch just a simple, concise list
00:33 nothingmuch please specify exactly how... to me it would be a distraction, but maybe i just don't understand how they will be used, and wher
00:33 nothingmuch e
00:34 ingy nothingmuch: as long as you are using comments, just do something, and we can refactor later
00:34 nothingmuch ok
00:34 nothingmuch so i vote for L<(Page/"Section")\s+(.*)> being matched
00:34 ingy I would use the double quotes though =)
00:34 nothingmuch $1 remains in the link
00:34 nothingmuch $2 is the pattern used to place the backlink
00:35 theorbtwo Need to use a Regex::Common delimited // thing; the regexes will commonly contain >s.
00:35 nothingmuch theorbtwo: good point
00:36 ingy cool, good luck!
00:36 nothingmuch so L<(Page/Section)\s+(delimiter)(....)(closedelim)>?
00:37 nothingmuch lets start with /, and if we run into leaning toothpick syndrome will fix that, ok?
00:37 theorbtwo Sounds good to me.
00:38 ingy nothingmuch: did you accidentally forget the double quotes?
00:38 nothingmuch yes, i did forget them
00:38 nothingmuch but they are optional if it's \S+, right?
00:38 nothingmuch damnit.
00:38 nothingmuch i hate special cases!
00:38 nothingmuch this was supposed to stay simple =(
00:39 nothingmuch then again, simple to humans is not necessarily simple to implementors
00:39 ingy yes, but if you are going to use a regexp in there please use the double quotes
00:39 nothingmuch and i think the tradeoff is 1:N in favour of user simplicity
00:39 ingy and I'll support them in Kwid too
00:39 nothingmuch well L<Foo/Bar //>
00:39 nothingmuch that should be ok
00:39 nothingmuch but L<Foo/Bar Gorch //> becomes tricky
00:40 nothingmuch so it needs to be L<Foo/"Bar Gorch" //>
00:40 nothingmuch right?
00:40 nothingmuch just like pod
00:40 ingy right
00:40 ingy well hmmm
00:40 ingy so consider this
00:40 chiaoi has joined #perl6
00:41 ingy maybe the regexp can just be a part of the section
00:41 nothingmuch oh my
00:41 nothingmuch that doesn't sound good
00:41 ingy it is up to the processor to decide what the section maps to
00:41 ingy the parser doesn't care
00:41 nothingmuch that was the purpose of the matches anyway
00:41 nothingmuch no, because we want finer granuality than sections
00:41 nothingmuch because tests are normally
00:42 nothingmuch this is a basic check for Section
00:42 nothingmuch this tests that special case mentioned by text 'blah.*gorch' in Section is as specified
00:42 nothingmuch and so on
00:42 nothingmuch and these things are worth mentioning from the perspective of the synopses
00:42 theorbtwo And because we don't want things to depend on processors.
00:43 nothingmuch because if someone bothered to test them, someone reading the synopses should know that the special test is tested for, and where
00:43 ingy I think that anything after the *first* slash in the link will just reported as the section
00:43 ingy and the processor can be as smart or as dumb as it wants
00:43 ingy so all is good
00:43 nothingmuch i disagree
00:43 nothingmuch it's not a section
00:44 nothingmuch it's where inside the section that the pattern is talking about
00:44 nothingmuch the section should still be intelligable to users, etc
00:44 ingy but conceptually they are all just pointers into the page Dom's content
00:44 theorbtwo No, all is bad.
00:44 theorbtwo When different renderers think something has different semantics, that is bad.
00:45 ingy page points to the dom
00:45 nothingmuch ingy: but not every part of the dom is linkable by heading name
00:45 ingy and everything else is a query into the dom
00:45 nothingmuch you are thinking xpath?
00:45 nothingmuch it's not in pod yet
00:45 ingy nothingmuch: I'm explaining it in those terms
00:45 ingy I know
00:45 nothingmuch and we're trying to get a Q&D xpath working within 10 minutes
00:45 ingy basically we are agreeing
00:45 nothingmuch which will be ok for special cases
00:46 nothingmuch till pod has xpath, if it does
00:46 ingy you just don;t know it yet
00:46 ingy I'm just saying do what you will after the first slash
00:46 nothingmuch because as i understand it it's semantically equivelent, but it's format is less backwards compatible
00:46 nothingmuch example please
00:46 ingy and it will not break with Pod's model conceptually
00:46 nothingmuch ok, so what advantages is your format capable of bringing over a clear distinction between "section" and /pattern/?
00:47 nothingmuch what about syntatically?
00:47 ingy ok I'm a bit lost...
00:47 nothingmuch then post an example
00:47 nothingmuch that will help us help you help us understand what you mean ;-)
00:48 nothingmuch (mr. ingerson)
00:48 theorbtwo I'm not concerned about breaking POD; I'm much more concerned about whatever replacing it being sane.
00:48 nothingmuch amused with himself, /me puts on simon & garfunkle
00:49 ingy but what is replacing it is really just Pod ;)
00:49 theorbtwo Yeah, that ought to get fixed.
00:49 theorbtwo Because POD is horribly horribly broken by years and years of being underspecified.
00:49 nothingmuch ingy! example! or i will just commit what i've already done!
00:49 ingy nothingmuch: commit it!
00:49 nothingmuch ok
00:49 ingy cool
00:49 ingy nothingmuch++
00:50 nothingmuch r890
00:50 nothingmuch i think we should start a background see session on the converter now
00:50 nothingmuch and work hard on creating a large volume of tests for this
00:50 nothingmuch tests with this
00:51 nothingmuch as a higher priority
00:51 nothingmuch whomever gets bored works on the converters a bit,
00:51 theorbtwo Is there an easy way to see the diff for a given r?
00:51 nothingmuch are you gusy in?
00:51 ingy all I am saying is that with L<page/...> whatever you put in ... will probably be just fine in the end
00:51 nothingmuch darcs diff -p
00:51 theorbtwo And how do we link to ml posts?
00:51 nothingmuch ;-)
00:52 nothingmuch theorbtwo [message-id://]
00:52 nothingmuch i think
00:52 nothingmuch let google do the work
00:53 nothingmuch . o O ( parsley sage, rosemay and cheese )
00:54 nothingmuch theorbtwo?
00:54 ingy nothingmuch: 890 looks groovy
00:54 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
00:54 theorbtwo I don't have darcs.
00:54 nothingmuch theorbtwo - i was kidding.. but i meant about the message-id stuff
00:54 theorbtwo What you have there looks good.
00:54 theorbtwo Um, don't like that, finding the RFC now.
00:55 theorbtwo news:msgid.
00:55 theorbtwo (With no angle brackets on the msgid.)
00:55 theorbtwo Straight out of RFC 1738
00:56 nothingmuch inside square brackets, perlmonks style?
00:56 theorbtwo No, as an L<>.
00:56 theorbtwo With a regex, if you want, but news arts are generally short enough that you don't need one.
00:56 nothingmuch L<news:foo@woobling.org>?
00:56 theorbtwo Yeah.
00:57 nothingmuch okay, works for me
00:57 nothingmuch see://woobling.org
00:58 theorbtwo My PearPC has been annoying lately, but will try again.
00:58 theorbtwo Oh, anybody know if there is a way to do remote-desktop from xwindows to OSX?
00:58 nothingmuch theobtwo: vnc
00:58 nothingmuch but that's it
00:59 nothingmuch apple has an rdesktop tool, but it:
00:59 nothingmuch a. sucks
00:59 nothingmuch b. really
00:59 nothingmuch c. is also propietry
00:59 theorbtwo And there's no linux binary-only version?  Idiots...
00:59 nothingmuch maybe timbuktu has an xwindows client though
00:59 nothingmuch but you'd have to pirate^Wbuy it
01:01 ingy are you guys using SEE?
01:01 nothingmuch ingy: yes
01:01 ingy address?
01:01 nothingmuch well, i am... nobody's joined yet ;-)
01:02 nothingmuch see://woobling.org
01:02 * nothingmuch is delighted he can finally spell synopses reliably
01:02 nothingmuch anyway, i'm getting myself something to serve as an ashtray
01:03 nothingmuch i wrote a todo in each of the perl scripts, and now will start committing links from my tests to the synopses. Then i'll take on others' tests.
01:05 markstos has joined #perl6
01:06 * hlen wonders how much longer until some kind soul gets the pipe operators working
01:07 jabbot pugs - 890 - First try at linking to synopses from te
01:07 theorbtwo ==> and <==, you mean?
01:08 Macdee has left
01:08 hlen theorbtwo, yes
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01:20 theorbtwo Jess has declared it night.  I'll probably be back in a few hours, though.
01:23 Limbic_Region TTFN theorbtwo
01:23 Limbic_Region sleep well
01:29 nothingmuch backlinking etiquette: only link what is actually tested
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01:32 nothingmuch i wonder how nice it is to backlink to s29? ;-)
01:32 * nothingmuch will avoid doing that for now
01:37 jabbot pugs - 891 - smartmatch test backlinking with synopsi
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01:47 jabbot pugs - 892 - synlink of given.t
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01:57 jabbot pugs - 894 - synlink subname.t
01:57 jabbot pugs - 893 - synlink of control_blocks.t
02:05 nothingmuch kula shaker!
02:07 jabbot pugs - 896 - rename, rehaul and synlink $?FILE and $?
02:07 jabbot pugs - 895 - synlink sub.t
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02:11 nothingmuch wizard.. blizzard
02:11 nothingmuch food
02:14 nothingmuch was it nicholas clark who raised the \0 as quote delimiter issue?
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02:18 chip anybody have the svn checkout command?
02:18 * chip seens none on pugscode.org
02:19 lumimies Hi
02:19 nothingmuch svn co http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs
02:19 chip doggone it
02:19 nothingmuch maybe you should add it to the wiki?
02:19 chip ah thanks
02:19 lumimies has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:19 ayrnieu has joined #perl6
02:19 nothingmuch hola lumi
02:20 nothingmuch want to help catalogging tests?
02:21 lumimies has joined #perl6
02:22 nothingmuch err,
02:22 nothingmuch hola lumi
02:22 nothingmuch want to help cataloggin tests?
02:22 lumimies Hi
02:22 lumimies Sure
02:22 lumimies This colloquy is buggy
02:22 lumimies What can I do?
02:22 nothingmuch colloquy has issues, yes
02:23 nothingmuch go through tests
02:23 chip Anybody know if   Str | Num where { $_ }  qualifies the Num or the junction type?
02:23 nothingmuch then add a L<S04/"Section"> link wherever
02:23 nothingmuch see t/operators/smartmatch.t, t/*/given.t, etc
02:23 nothingmuch errm
02:23 kolibrie has joined #perl6
02:23 nothingmuch that's in s12, right?
02:24 nothingmuch hmm
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02:24 nothingmuch if where is a named unary
02:24 nothingmuch then it binds tighter than junctive or
02:25 nothingmuch if it's a statement modifier (that analogy doesn't fit for me), then it binds very loosely
02:25 nothingmuch s03 has a table at the bottom, see if it makes sense
02:25 nothingmuch if where is an infix named operator, then it must have more explicit precedence
02:25 nothingmuch in that case s03 has a bug
02:26 nothingmuch if it's a rightward listop, then it's less than |, in which case it applies only to the Num
02:26 nothingmuch . o O ( shower your love on me! )
02:27 chip what's a "rightward listop"?
02:27 nothingmuch an op that slurps a list
02:27 nothingmuch that is right of it
02:28 nothingmuch unlike leftward list ops (only ==> as far as i know)
02:28 nothingmuch which take the list on the left side, and moves it to the right
02:29 sahadev__ has joined #perl6
02:30 nothingmuch hmm
02:30 nothingmuch am i hallucinating?
02:30 lumimies has joined #perl6
02:30 chip ok... that's not what "where" is, AFAICT.  I think it's a binary op.  (If "of" and "is" are binary, anyway)
02:30 nothingmuch i thought i checked in t/base/subtypes.t yesterday
02:30 nothingmuch is and of and where and will are not listed in the s03 table
02:31 nothingmuch but i've seen a definition of will akin to is, in s12
02:31 nothingmuch talking about it being infix
02:31 nothingmuch but not specifying precedence
02:36 chip Asked on p6l
02:37 jabbot pugs - 897 - Add a test for subtypes (a type witha  w
02:37 chip Is C<++$named> for mandatory named parameter official?
02:37 nothingmuch chip: no
02:38 nothingmuch it says in s06 IIRC
02:38 chip Mm, OK
02:38 nothingmuch that it will 'probably' be so
02:38 nothingmuch but i don't recall seeing a concrete statement
02:38 sourceror has joined #perl6
02:38 nothingmuch but it's tested for as such (t/subroutines/sub_named*.t)
02:39 kolibrie has quit IRC ("leaving")
02:39 chip Right, that's where I saw it.
02:39 chip which is right: "+$var of Num is required", or "+$var is required of Num" ?
02:40 * nothingmuch doesn't parse
02:40 nothingmuch oh
02:40 chip OK, how about "$var of Num is rw" vs. "$var is rw of Num"
02:40 nothingmuch i'd say the first just because it makes sense englishly
02:41 nothingmuch and i'd say in that case Num $var is rw
02:41 lumimies has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:41 nothingmuch or again, the former
02:41 nothingmuch damnit lumi, fix your nat!
02:41 chip yeah
02:41 ayrnieu randomly, how do you access directories in perl6?  <*> and readdir() and friends all seem to not exist.
02:41 nothingmuch ayrnieu do you know if they're being tested for?
02:42 ayrnieu and I'm not clear on where I should look for perl6func =)
02:42 nothingmuch i think opendir etc are not defined enough to be implemented
02:42 nothingmuch ayrnieu: the recently started s29 (fetching link) project is supposed to be just that
02:42 sahadev__ has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:42 ayrnieu nothing - nothing interesting appeared on my greps, no.
02:42 ayrnieu nothing - oh, cool.
02:42 nothingmuch http://www.rodadams.net/Perl/S29.html
02:42 nothingmuch okay
02:43 nothingmuch well, as for <*> i saw it discussed some time ago. I have no idea what it really means, that i remember it
02:43 nothingmuch but it might have been discussed
02:43 nothingmuch if you can find something sensical in s29, you might want to write a test for it
02:44 nothingmuch and use our new linking convention to link back to the relevant part in s29
02:44 nothingmuch even though it's a work in progress
02:45 nothingmuch oh
02:45 nothingmuch appearantly the apocalypse on IO stuff is not ready at all yet
02:45 nothingmuch errm.
02:45 nothingmuch bummer
02:45 nothingmuch anyway, i promised myself some food a while ago, bbiab
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02:53 elmex woho
02:57 lumimies Actually seems it's sleeptime for me
02:59 elmex ;)
02:59 elmex it's soooo eary ;)
02:59 elmex early
02:59 lumimies It is, too
02:59 lumimies 5am is early
02:59 lumimies Just the wrong sort of early
03:00 elmex 04:00 here ;)
03:00 nothingmuch lumimies: what, with no links done?
03:00 nothingmuch naughty!
03:00 lumimies Yes, sorry :/
03:00 nothingmuch anywho, your connection is acting up
03:00 lumimies has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:01 nothingmuch hah!
03:01 sahadev__ has joined #perl6
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03:01 lumimies It is
03:02 lumimies "I even managed to get bbedit to run and also to show me all the synopses in one window and all"
03:02 lumimies Is what I said
03:02 nothingmuch bbedit--
03:02 lumimies But still, sleep beckons
03:02 nothingmuch very expensive without a good reason
03:02 nothingmuch well, ciao then
03:02 lumimies What do you reccomend?
03:02 nothingmuch carbon vim
03:02 lumimies Er, 2m not 2 c
03:02 nothingmuch subetha
03:02 nothingmuch carbon emacs
03:03 nothingmuch xemacs
03:03 lumimies I'll try to findsuch
03:03 * nothingmuch is very very happy with carbon vim
03:03 lumimies I don't want to run another os though
03:03 nothingmuch well, if you're not an emacs head then that's good for you
03:03 nothingmuch in the non cynical sense ;-)
03:04 lumimies Although it comes with its own psychiatrist
03:04 nothingmuch =)
03:04 nothingmuch you can also run eclipse
03:04 lumimies I think bbedit is more about milking money out of web developers nowadays
03:04 nothingmuch i find that scary though
03:04 lumimies Oh wow, overkill
03:05 nothingmuch i thought web developers like dreamweaver
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03:06 lumimies Gr
03:07 jabbot pugs - 898 - synlink quoting.t
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03:07 nothingmuch damn, that's just cruel
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03:11 stevan hey nothingmuch
03:11 nothingmuch hola stevan
03:11 stevan how goes the linking?
03:11 nothingmuch i'll leave see://woobling.org open
03:12 nothingmuch i'm not going to work on it this evening
03:12 nothingmuch however, i linkified several test files
03:12 stevan yes I see
03:12 stevan whats at see://woobling?
03:13 nothingmuch catalog_tests.pl, and fudge_synopses.pl (really just a todo)
03:13 stevan ok,.. I had to ditch subetha
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03:13 nothingmuch maybe when ingy returns you guys can work on it
03:13 stevan it was taking over too many file types
03:13 nothingmuch ditch? why?
03:13 nothingmuch oh...
03:13 nothingmuch that can be fixed rather easily
03:13 nothingmuch edit it's Info.plist
03:14 nothingmuch anyway, the birds outside are starting to make a racket
03:14 nothingmuch i best be off to bed
03:14 stevan ok
03:14 stevan what time is it there?
03:14 nothingmuch 5:15
03:14 stevan wow
03:14 stevan ok
03:14 stevan 10:15 pm here
03:14 nothingmuch east coast?
03:15 stevan yeah
03:15 nothingmuch anyway, go back to subetha, it's fun
03:15 nothingmuch only make sure it doesn't get in the way (that is doable)
03:15 stevan ok I will fiddle with it
03:15 cls_bsd ok, I have stupid Q, so far pugs supports hash now?_?
03:15 nothingmuch cls_bsd: i think yes
03:16 cls_bsd nothingmuch: Thank you :) so much
03:16 nothingmuch i didn't implement it ;-)
03:17 nothingmuch see t/data_types/hash.t
03:18 stevan cls_bsd: hashes still have some un-implemented corner cases
03:18 cls_bsd stevan: ok, I all see tests first :)
03:19 nothingmuch cls_bsd: anything that is perl, and whose results don't end in todo_ probably works
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03:20 elmex_ crap fucking internet connection hate
03:20 nothingmuch i should say, and whose results aren't checked with todo_*
03:20 nothingmuch anyway, good night all
03:20 elmex_ nothingmuch: gn8
03:20 nothingmuch please please please keep synlinking tests
03:20 stevan nothingmuch: I will
03:20 stevan nothingmuch++
03:20 nothingmuch stevan++
03:20 nothingmuch heh
03:21 nothingmuch *poof*
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04:27 jabbot pugs - 899 - adding in some =pod sections along with
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05:47 jabbot pugs - 901 -  r1153@not (orig r564):  luqui | 2005-03
05:47 jabbot pugs - 900 - * regen manifest
05:50 autrijus t/operators/quoting.t is simply amazing.
05:51 autrijus (test squad)++
05:51 autrijus actually, just woke up to say this. going back to sleep. :) &
06:09 hoowa has joined #perl6
06:12 ingy hola
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06:48 chip BWAHAHA
06:49 chip C< sub foo ($a, $b, ?$c) { print "a=$a b=$b c=$c" } >
06:49 chip I've got that working in Perl 5
06:52 chip C< sub foo ($me: $a, $b, +$c, +$d) { ... } >   also
06:59 autrijus Perl 5?
06:59 autrijus you mean http://search.cpan.org/~brentdax/Perl6-Parameters-0.03/ ?
07:03 autrijus so, if I added m:p5// rules support today
07:04 autrijus I don't think anyone will complain, right?
07:04 autrijus when PGE arrives we'll just hook it into the same interface, in 6.283
07:04 autrijus but p5 regex can't hurt.
07:04 masak hello
07:04 masak hanoi works now :)
07:04 autrijus hi masak.
07:04 autrijus masak: indeed! :)
07:05 masak and i have an openfoundry account
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07:11 autrijus yay!
07:12 autrijus so commit your name into AUTHORS?
07:12 autrijus masak: also, if you'd like to write a test that exercises the hanoi bug, in t/subroutines/
07:12 ingy nothingmuch: you should look at Pod's X<> format. It is an alternative to your regexp fu.
07:12 autrijus or at the end of t/subroutines/sub_named_params.t
07:13 autrijus then I'd be ~very grateful
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07:15 autrijus hihi hoowa
07:15 autrijus hoowa: chinese (utf8) variable and subroutine names completely works in pugs now... I'm adding perl5 regular expressions today
07:16 autrijus hoowa: great work on getting the translations going, btw
07:18 masak autrijus: i'd like to do both, but i am still at a loss
07:19 ingy autrijus: jesse is incoming, no?
07:19 masak i think i can handle the AUTHORS file
07:19 autrijus ingy: right
07:19 autrijus masak: ok. have you written perl5 tests before?
07:19 masak but the tests i will have to study a bit first
07:19 ingy w00t
07:19 masak autrijus: no
07:19 masak only looked at some
07:19 autrijus ok, read this: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Test-Simple/lib/Test/Tutorial.pod
07:19 masak thx
07:19 autrijus guaranteed to change your life^Wprogramming style :)
07:20 masak lol
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07:20 autrijus schwern++ # the kingly pumpking
07:23 ingy we should have a raffle to guess how many pugs patches there will be by oscon
07:24 ingy any early guesses?
07:25 autrijus patches?
07:25 autrijus I'll just grant you admin right
07:26 autrijus and give people committer bits on the spot
07:27 ingy maybe I'll hand out freepan accounts with each oscon lanyard
07:27 jabbot pugs - 902 - New Kwid syntaxes inspired by Damian...
07:28 autrijus yup.
07:28 autrijus yapcna is earlier than oscon no?
07:29 ingy yes
07:29 autrijus so, maybe we should guess pugs patches during that :)
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07:35 masak autrijus: i think you've spelled my name "musak" in your journal :)
07:35 autrijus sorry. :)
07:35 autrijus fixed.
07:36 masak thx :)
07:37 masak let's say i wanted to do an svn co, how would i do it?
07:37 masak i've only done wget so far :(
07:37 autrijus svn co http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs
07:37 autrijus that's all.
07:37 masak lol
07:37 masak ok
07:38 autrijus to commit, "svn ci"
07:38 masak right
07:38 masak do i need to log in for that?
07:38 autrijus when you do that
07:38 autrijus it will ask for your username/passwd.
07:38 masak ah
07:43 masak is there a way for me to... run my test before ci-ing it?
07:44 autrijus sure
07:44 chip autrijus: Oh, I've gone way beyond Perl6::Parameters
07:44 autrijus make install
07:44 autrijus pugs t/foo/your_test.t
07:45 masak k, thx
07:45 autrijus if you don't like make install, you can set HARNESS_PERL env var and PERL6LIB.
07:45 autrijus PERL6LIB to ext/Test/lib
07:45 autrijus chip: wow!
07:45 chip sub foo (Int $a, Ref $b, $c of SomeOtherClass where { $_->can('foo') }) {...}
07:45 autrijus wow.
07:45 * autrijus is impressed
07:45 chip can't share yet, no permission from $dayjob
07:45 autrijus and it works? or just parses?
07:46 chip works
07:46 autrijus do ask!
07:46 autrijus ask for permission that is.
07:46 chip I shall.  Ironically this was driven by the need for documentation
07:46 chip Doxygen can't parse perl, so I made Perl easier to parse for Doxygen
07:47 autrijus fantastic.
07:47 chip My favorite useless hack:  C< sub foo ($c, *@_) > initializes with a simple C< my $c = shift >
07:48 * autrijus bows before chip's superior perljutsu
07:49 chip now you're just showing off.  I mean, c'mon, you've got more of Perl 6 than anyone
07:49 autrijus true, I probably can't code it up in perl5 in a couple days :)
07:49 chip it's my first working source filter.  now I gotta make it work with Perl6::Export or Damian will be peeved
07:50 autrijus riight.
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07:50 autrijus I have this unfair technical advantage. truth be told, I tried to do pugs in perl5 first
07:50 chip well, we actually have a Plan.  Perl 6 attribute plugin architecture.  Probably over the hill and around the bend, ...
07:50 autrijus but it just can't be done :-/
07:50 autrijus "we" as in the Cabal we? :)
07:50 chip Yeah.  Tell me about it
07:51 chip No, no, just Damian & me, when I discovered P6::Export and realized that P6::Subs (my working name) wouldn't play nice together
07:51 chip s/discovered/read/
07:52 chip Do you know whether "is rw" attaches to the variable name always, even if the declaration is turned around with "of"?
07:52 chip C< $a of Num is rw >?
07:52 autrijus aye.
07:52 autrijus I think so.
07:52 chip My example had reversed polarity from my question.  Is the question yes, or is the example right?
07:53 masak :)
07:53 chip "Do not go to autrijus for counsel..."
07:56 autrijus I think both works.
07:56 autrijus yes. no.
07:56 autrijus perl is great. it contains multitudes.
07:56 * autrijus grins elvishly
07:59 * masak just made his first svn ci
07:59 autrijus masak++
07:59 masak :D
07:59 autrijus welcome aboard!
08:00 masak thx. i could hardly sleep last night because of pugs :)
08:01 autrijus all excited?
08:01 masak overly so
08:01 autrijus I know that feeling :)))
08:01 masak bet you do :)
08:01 autrijus so, try reading http://haskell.org/tutorial/ or YAHT when you have some time :)
08:02 masak will do
08:02 autrijus meanwhile, I'm sure the testing and example and p6ification squads will welcome you
08:02 masak lol
08:03 autrijus lunch, brb.
08:17 jabbot pugs - 903 - Test for correct parameter binding
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09:14 autrijus poll: which one is more interesting to see it happen today?
09:15 autrijus 1) Perl6 -> Haskell -> C compiler
09:15 autrijus 2) m:p5// Regex
09:15 autrijus I have a beginning of both
09:15 autrijus not sure what to work on.
09:16 autrijus (and compiler = real compiler, not embedded evaluator)
09:17 jabbot pugs - 904 - use array slice rather than temp var
09:24 pjcj I don't mind, since the other will happen tomorrow, right?  ;-)
09:26 autrijus no, tomorrow obra arrives
09:26 autrijus and we will hack perl5 :)
09:28 pjcj perl5 is good too :)  I see regexen as more useful to people wanting to play with perl6, but the compiler as more interesting and newsworthy
09:31 autrijus Go not to pjcj for counsel... :)
09:34 pjcj yeah, my wife gets cross when she asks "a or b" and gets "yes"
09:50 autrijus she should've asked "a xor b"
09:50 autrijus but then you'll still say "yes".
09:51 autrijus so maybe "a instead of b?" is better
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10:13 Schwern QUESTION!  Why are many assignments in Test.pm of the := variety?
10:14 Schwern my $ok := $cond ?? "ok " :: "not ok ";   for example
10:14 autrijus ANSWER! because we don't need destructive assignment.
10:14 autrijus less chance of bug that way,
10:14 autrijus if you assign $ok, that'd be an error.
10:15 Schwern So you're making it constant by aliasing it to one?
10:15 autrijus yes.
10:15 Schwern Seems a round about way of doing it.
10:15 Schwern Shouldn't it be "is const" or something?
10:15 autrijus well, := reads much more natural to me
10:15 autrijus because my mind parses it as "letrec".
10:15 Schwern := just means alias
10:15 autrijus sure.
10:16 Schwern You have to examine the RHS to know its meant to make the LHS constant
10:16 autrijus also, if you don't use $ok
10:16 autrijus then it won't be evaluated.
10:16 autrijus also there is many fun compile time tricks with :=
10:16 autrijus but well, those are not convincing reasons.
10:16 autrijus I'll just say it seemed like a good idea when I wrote it.
10:16 Schwern Wouldn't "is const" take care of that, too, in theory?
10:16 Schwern Fair nuff
10:16 autrijus no, because it still forces evaluation of RHS.
10:17 Schwern I get it
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10:17 autrijus a whole class of bugs just went away if people use := instead of = :)
10:18 autrijus "side-effect bugs", that is.
10:18 Schwern Except if you never used $ok... what's the point of defining it? :)
10:18 * autrijus has been brainwashed:  http://autrijus.org/haskell_brain.html
10:18 autrijus Schwern: well, maybe I only use it in one of the many given/when branches.
10:19 autrijus it's this whole lazy evaluation thing.
10:21 Schwern So my $foo := EXPR is always going to render $foo constant if EXPR returns a constant?
10:21 autrijus yes.
10:22 Schwern Ok, that's easier to understand.
10:22 Schwern Clever
10:22 autrijus =)
10:24 Schwern Also I'm slowly gravitating towards darc
10:24 Schwern s
10:25 autrijus okay. maybe you can help on darcs/svk integration :)
10:25 Schwern Checking out pugs using it instead of SVK right now.
10:25 autrijus oh. then you'll want better log messages.
10:25 Schwern ?
10:25 autrijus currently the pathces are all named "syncup"
10:25 Schwern Oh
10:25 Schwern So the subversion repo is the real one?
10:25 autrijus currently yes.
10:26 autrijus twoway sync planned.
10:26 autrijus need clkao to be around physically
10:26 Schwern Yeah, the darcs folks were saying they had that sort of working
10:26 Schwern http://www.abridgegame.org/pipermail/darcs-users/2005-January/005070.html
10:28 Schwern About the only serious complaint I have about darcs so far is its wacky diff format.
10:29 clkao *yawn*
10:29 Schwern And there's no darcs log... what the hell
10:29 clkao Schwern: btw, svk and svn/perl are both happy with new eu::mm
10:30 Schwern clkao:  Excellent, thanks.
10:32 Schwern And "darcs annotate" is just uselessly gimped unless I'm doing something REALLY wrong
10:32 autrijus I have lots of darcs repo corruptions.
10:32 autrijus it feels like bdb.
10:32 autrijus i.e. when it's corrupted you can't do a damn thing about it.
10:32 autrijus and merge is slow.
10:33 autrijus but when it works it works very good.
10:34 Schwern Is the annotate format really this bad?
10:34 autrijus I don't know.
10:34 autrijus never really used it.
10:35 Schwern Have a look
10:35 nothingmuch morning
10:36 autrijus hey nothingmuch.
10:39 clkao come back use svk? :)
10:39 Schwern I'm going to yell at the darcs folks for a bit.
10:40 Schwern I'll admit the simplicity of setting up a darcs repo has grabbed me.
10:40 autrijus yes!
10:40 autrijus I've pushed co .svk/ for a while now
10:40 autrijus clkao said he is willing to do it post-1.0
10:40 Schwern I don't understand why they went with _darcs instead of .darcs though.
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10:41 Schwern Yeah, per checkout .dirs seems less prone to catastrophic failure.
10:41 autrijus except _darcs is prone to rm -rf failure.
10:41 nothingmuch Schwern: the rational in a jiffy is that _darcs is important and because of that is shouldn't be hidden
10:41 Schwern nothingmuch:  That's dumb, you should nevrer have to look inside of it.
10:42 autrijus I agree with Schwern.
10:42 nothingmuch not inside it, at it
10:42 Schwern And most things are already wired to ignore .files
10:42 nothingmuch i agree too
10:42 nothingmuch i'm jos proxying
10:42 Schwern nothingmuch: ... why would I want to look at it?
10:42 autrijus oh ok.
10:42 clkao like rm -rf *
10:42 nothingmuch s/jos/just/
10:42 autrijus I agree with nothingmuch then :)
10:42 nothingmuch size concerns
10:42 Schwern ?
10:42 Schwern Am I going to forget I'm in a darcs repository?
10:42 nothingmuch well, it grows large
10:42 nothingmuch so users should know
10:42 Schwern So am I going to delete it then?
10:42 nothingmuch basically that's it
10:43 nothingmuch i dunno
10:43 Schwern Right.
10:43 nothingmuch again, i'm only proxying ;-)
10:43 Schwern Information with no action.
10:43 Schwern I understand.
10:43 * nothingmuch would like to see it be compatible. If the user does 'mv _darcs .darcs' then it keeps working
10:43 nothingmuch that way everyone is happy
10:43 Schwern Or specify it in a .darcsrc file.
10:43 autrijus or a _darcsrc file.
10:44 * autrijus grins
10:44 nothingmuch Schwern: that doesn't work
10:44 Schwern nothingmuch:  It could.
10:44 nothingmuch because how do you know what another repos user's darcsrc says when you get/pull?
10:44 Schwern ~/.darcsrc
10:44 Schwern Global config, not per repo
10:44 nothingmuch ~/.darcs/prefs/default_path
10:44 nothingmuch ;-)
10:44 Schwern Sure
10:44 nothingmuch or whatever
10:45 nothingmuch anywho, it doesn't matter
10:45 nothingmuch because there's still no way to tell what a user's pref was by just looking at the repo
10:45 Schwern ?
10:45 nothingmuch unless your only options are --dot-notation or --underscore-notation
10:45 Schwern I don't get it
10:45 nothingmuch in which case it's just in ~/darcs/defaults for get and init
10:45 nothingmuch errm
10:45 nothingmuch say i darcs get http://some/repo
10:46 nothingmuch darcs looks at http://some/repo/inventory stuff
10:46 Schwern Oh, it gets copied from the repo, right.
10:46 nothingmuch inside of _darcs by default
10:46 Schwern Then yeah, it should look for _darcs and .darcs
10:46 nothingmuch if there are only two options, _darcs and .darcs, then it works
10:47 nothingmuch ooh, it appears that many tests have been modified
10:47 nothingmuch have people been linking? =D
10:48 nothingmuch so anyway, i would like to write the backlink synopsis generating code
10:48 nothingmuch but i don't know where to point the backlinks to
10:49 nothingmuch someone with authority, please decide what split_test_catalog.pl should actually do
10:49 clkao Schwern: so, what do you think svk should steal from darcs?
10:50 nothingmuch and then i think we run catalog_tests.pl t | split_test_catalog.pl test_catalog/; fudge_synopses t test_catalog/
10:50 Schwern clkao:  darcs init
10:50 nothingmuch (unrecord!
10:50 clkao inplace repository you mean ?
10:50 Schwern clkao:  ie. one step repository creation
10:50 nothingmuch unpull)
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10:50 Schwern clkao:  The per change bit of "darcs record"
10:51 Schwern clkao:  I like that I can work on several changes simultaneously and then easily commit them as seperate changes.
10:51 cnhackTNT|away is now known as cnhackTNT
10:51 Schwern clkao:  The fact that "darcs send" is so damned easy.
10:51 clkao uhm, give me a perl unidiff applier.
10:51 nothingmuch ppt should have one, no?
10:51 autrijus ppt's patch.
10:52 Schwern I mean, I got going in darcs in no time.
10:52 Schwern clkao:  No bloody URLs to deal with.
10:52 nothingmuch http://search.cpan.org/~andrewc/Algorithm-Diff-Apply-0.2.3/lib/Algorithm/Diff/Apply.pod
10:52 nothingmuch http://search.cpan.org/~cade/Text-Patch-1.1/Patch.pm
10:52 nothingmuch (that's exactly what you want, i think)
10:53 clkao last time i checked non of them are streamy
10:53 clkao text-patch is new
10:53 Schwern clkao:  Mirroring and localizing is one step (darcs get) rather than several in SVK.
10:53 clkao Schwern: uh? i thought svk cp URL does that in one step?
10:54 Schwern clkao:  One command, many steps
10:54 nothingmuch svk cp should be as simple as svn co for the same thing
10:54 Schwern Where am I mirroring from?  What's the mirror path?  What's the local path?  Where's the checkout directory?
10:54 clkao i thought they all have sensible default?
10:55 Schwern And then there's the mirror vs local repository thing that always seemed like an exposed implementation detail to me.
10:55 clkao or we need svk cp --use-default etc
10:55 cnhackTNT is now known as cnhackTNT|away
10:55 Schwern clkao:  Sure, but its not as simple as: darcs get http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/darcs/pugs/
10:56 Schwern Done.
10:56 clkao how do i just get latest 100 revisions then?
10:56 Schwern Who cares?
10:56 Schwern Some switch
10:56 clkao it can have 100k revision
10:56 clkao hm.
10:56 Schwern If that's the case I'll flip the switch.
10:57 * clkao looks at autrijus. the interactive stuff wasn't my idea.
10:57 Schwern Or perhaps if SVK detects a large amount of revisions it asks.
10:57 * autrijus looks at clkao. it was not even possible.
10:57 clkao it can't. it's svn api restriction.
10:57 autrijus you had to mi, and sy, and sm, and co, and up
10:57 autrijus remember? :)
10:57 Schwern I'm going to be a user (ie. dick) here and say "not my problem".
10:58 autrijus maybe we can make it fetch all by default.
10:58 autrijus and local mirror by default
10:58 autrijus and use default names.
10:58 autrijus and you turn on interactive with --interactive.
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10:59 nothingmuch autrijus: now that obra is in your time zone can you find another comitbiter?
10:59 autrijus k. I need to run.
10:59 autrijus brb.
11:00 clkao *sigh* http://wagner.elixus.org/~clkao/software.jpg
11:00 nothingmuch i hate softwre most of the time too
11:00 nothingmuch the exceptions are software that is for fun
11:00 nothingmuch and software which I need and actually works when I need it
11:00 nothingmuch like, err, /bin/sh
11:00 nothingmuch and... cat
11:01 nothingmuch ...
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11:14 malaire nothingmuch: Are you still interested in porting re_tests to pugs? (If not, I could work on it, but if you want to do it, then I'll find something else to do)
11:14 clkao after darcs get URL, how do i create another feature branch apart from primary local branch?
11:15 nothingmuch malaire: i've been too busy this week to work more than 10 minutes on anything except last night
11:15 clkao I think i can hack together a frontend to resemble all darcs commands.
11:15 nothingmuch so i did not get to it yet
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11:15 nothingmuch i think perhaps it's better that you do it
11:16 nothingmuch because my timeline for the short term future does not look very good either
11:16 malaire ok..
11:16 nothingmuch sorry
11:17 malaire no problem, I like working on re-tests. I just don't want to duplicate too much work
11:17 nothingmuch ok
11:18 malaire autrijus: I read about you going to implement m:p5// -- would it be possible to get some support for $-[n] along with captures?
11:21 Jonathan_ Morning folks...if I'm going to put some tests in for something that's not working in Pugs yet, do I just use is_todo for them?
11:28 malaire Jonathan_: yes, but you can use other todo_* functions also from Test.pm, whatever seems best
11:29 clkao Schwern: is each darcs working copy exactly a mirror and local branch?
11:29 malaire to be exact, the function is todo_is not is_todo
11:29 Schwern clkao:  I believe so.
11:29 Schwern clkao:  I can make local commits without sending them to the repo and I have full history access.
11:29 Schwern s/repo/master/
11:30 clkao ok, but you can't branch for another feature off the darcs-get'ed working copy? have to get another one?
11:30 Schwern clkao:  Its not so much a working copy as another repository
11:30 Schwern clkao:  I don't know about branching in darcs.  However it works I'd be able to do it.
11:30 Schwern clkao:  A darcs checkout is its own repository.
11:31 clkao yes, i already know that. but what if you want another experimental branch besides the remote tree and the local tree?
11:31 Schwern clkao:  I make local commits in it and, if I want, send them back to the master repo (or another repo)
11:31 Schwern clkao:  I don't know about branching.
11:31 Schwern I think darcs branches by copying
11:32 Schwern "A new branch is just another local copy of the repository."
11:33 Schwern So I just make a copy of my own repostiory (which becomes its own repo) and work on that, moving patches back and forth as I wish.
11:33 nothingmuch and subetha heads around?
11:33 clkao ok.
11:37 jabbot pugs - 905 - Test ?.assuming(params)
11:37 Schwern clkao:  Something else I've just discovered about darcs.  When you do "darcs get http://www.foo.com/dir" its literally just a web spider of a dumb http server.
11:37 Schwern clkao:  No web dav required.
11:37 Schwern clkao:  Since all the repo information is right there in _darcs/
11:43 clkao ya.
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12:14 nothingmuch damnit
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12:30 nothingmuch forgive me everyone, for i have sinned
12:31 nothingmuch catalog_tests.pl now uses eval
12:32 nothingmuch err, not catalog_tests
12:32 nothingmuch the thing that creates backlinks
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12:44 elmex morginig
12:47 jabbot pugs - 906 - Fix link regexes a bit
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14:01 nothingmuch pod help, anyone?
14:01 gaal has joined #perl6
14:01 nothingmuch hola gaal
14:01 gaal heya
14:03 nothingmuch i have a dillema about =item L<foo>
14:03 nothingmuch are you pod savvy?
14:03 gaal you talkin' to me? are you talkin' to me?
14:04 gaal cause if you are, unfortunately i'm not really :)
14:04 nothingmuch ok
14:04 nothingmuch bummer
14:05 gaal i guess that'll be my next conversion up
14:07 theorbtwo I'm not POD-savvy either, but I can try to answer anyway.
14:08 nothingmuch =item link $link_count
14:08 nothingmuch well
14:08 nothingmuch the best thing i've come up with is
14:08 nothingmuch L<S04/...>
14:08 nothingmuch this is for two reasons
14:08 nothingmuch =item should be linkable
14:08 nothingmuch and =item should have content, otherrwise it's formatted in a funny way
14:09 nothingmuch because consecutive =items are smushed as alternatives
14:09 nothingmuch but i think that this output is overly verbose
14:10 theorbtwo Yeah, I think the only way to get reasonable output is to output HTML directly.
14:10 nothingmuch uhuh
14:11 nothingmuch well, anywho
14:11 nothingmuch for now lots of pod output is done
14:11 nothingmuch so i'll leave it like this, and rehaul later
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14:11 theorbtwo To whit, output <super><a href="...#random" title="whatever"><sup>T</sup></a>.
14:12 nothingmuch actually i mean on the other side
14:12 theorbtwo Then same, but use D instead of T.  Oh, and I forgot the id="" or name="" parameter.
14:13 nothingmuch yeah, html will make this simple
14:13 nothingmuch but i don't want to do it right now, i'd rather do the other stuff first and leave that til lthe end
14:14 theorbtwo Nod.
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14:39 autrijus greetings lambdacamels!
14:39 autrijus full perl 5 regular expression support is in!
14:39 clkao crazy bastard
14:39 autrijus 'string' =~~ rx:perl5/.../
14:39 autrijus now works.
14:40 autrijus other syntax forms will be worked on later.
14:40 autrijus all captures, $1, $2 etc works.
14:40 autrijus $0 (i.e. $& in perl5) works.
14:40 autrijus with lookahead, lookbehind, lookarounds.
14:40 clkao how far is it for pugs to use p5lib? i want to write darck to wrap around svk.pm
14:40 autrijus clkao: you need to ask larry for that
14:41 autrijus it could be next week. or next month. or next year.
14:41 autrijus because he's not publishing his progress :)
14:41 autrijus there is progress, but we don't know how far.
14:41 autrijus alternatively, work on PPI->Yaml->Pugs in hackatons
14:41 autrijus alternatively, work on Inline::GHC
14:47 jabbot pugs - 907 - * perl 5 regular expressions, with ~~ an
14:47 theorbtwo Wow!
14:47 * theorbtwo is very impressed.
14:47 autrijus =)
14:47 autrijus I expect a real compiler to take another day or so.
14:48 clkao is it a push -l? takes quite long
14:49 autrijus err, I mean ~~, not =~~
14:49 malaire perlbot, nopaste?
14:49 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
14:51 pasteling "malaire" at 217.119.39.217 pasted "make failure with r907" (32 lines, 1.6K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8363
14:51 autrijus platform?
14:52 malaire linux, x86, GHC 6.4
14:53 autrijus try go to pcre.c
14:53 autrijus and s/register //g
14:54 malaire a moment..
14:55 malaire no change
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14:57 malaire I still get exact same error.
14:57 * autrijus thinks.
14:58 autrijus make it toplevel?
14:58 autrijus I mean
14:58 autrijus nvm, I'll just checkin a fix
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15:02 nothingmuch autrijus: i need some advice
15:03 autrijus nothingmuch: yes?
15:03 autrijus malaire: try again.
15:03 nothingmuch i'm working on the catalog_tests.pl script
15:03 nothingmuch it's parsing our weird link syntax now
15:03 nothingmuch but for linking to actually work we need to standardize how the files will be distributed
15:04 autrijus ok. just for the record, I think t/Synopsis/ no longer makes sense.
15:04 theorbtwo I think it never made sense...
15:05 nothingmuch me neither
15:05 nothingmuch i think we should have catalog_tests.pl t/ output_dir
15:05 nothingmuch where output dir has Synopsis/SXX.{html,pod}
15:05 nothingmuch and t/foo/test_name.{html,pod}
15:05 autrijus it made sense before we have this perl5 like layout.
15:05 autrijus t/Synopsis was the first thing :)
15:05 nothingmuch and backlinks are to L<t::foo::test_name.t>
15:05 nothingmuch heh
15:06 nothingmuch forward links look like L<Synopsis::S01/"Thing">
15:06 theorbtwo I vote for putting the perl design docs in lib/Perl6/[ASE]*
15:06 theorbtwo (When installed, anyway.)
15:06 * nothingmuch is agnostic
15:06 autrijus so ext/Perl6-Design/
15:06 nothingmuch anywho,
15:06 autrijus or something like that?
15:06 nothingmuch perhaps
15:06 malaire it compiled ok... what was the working syntax? =~~ or ~~
15:06 autrijus ~~
15:06 nothingmuch except that's where the originals are
15:06 autrijus tests welcome.
15:07 jabbot pugs - 908 - * try fix reg. spilling
15:07 malaire my $s = "Test"; $s ~~ rx:perl5/../  -- gives "Segmentation fault"
15:07 theorbtwo Sounds right, autrijus.
15:07 nothingmuch the generated ones should live somehwere generated
15:07 autrijus uh. wow.
15:07 autrijus segfault.
15:08 autrijus nothingmuch: yup. and persumably not under t/
15:08 autrijus out/ or something?
15:08 nothingmuch the user tells the script
15:08 autrijus right.
15:08 nothingmuch and our website will have some path
15:08 nothingmuch but...
15:08 theorbtwo I get link failure -- ghc --make -I. -Isrc -Isrc/pcre -i. -isrc -isrc/pcre -static -Wall -fno-warn-missing-signatures -fno-warn-name-shadowing -o pugs src/Main.hs ... undefined references to pcre_*.
15:08 nothingmuch i'm thinking of being nasty and using Pod::SAX
15:08 nothingmuch or something like that
15:08 nothingmuch to merge the original pod stream
15:08 nothingmuch and our additions
15:08 nothingmuch i'm researching on how else to do this
15:09 nothingmuch (pod object model type stuff would be good)
15:09 nothingmuch but i haven't found much
15:09 nothingmuch or rather, i've found too much
15:10 autrijus hrm.
15:11 autrijus I don't neccessary think merging makes a lot of sense.
15:11 autrijus I'd much rather prefer generated html and links.
15:11 theorbtwo I'd suggest finding the approps section, then inserting the markers where they need to go.
15:11 rg0now has joined #perl6
15:11 * theorbtwo is with autrijus.
15:11 nothingmuch ok
15:11 theorbtwo I'd convert the design docs to HTML, then use HTML::TreeBuilder to do what you want.
15:11 nothingmuch hmm
15:12 rg0now Hi folks!
15:12 nothingmuch theorbtw++ # nice idea
15:12 rg0now might I have a small qusetion
15:12 nothingmuch rg0now: NO!
15:12 rg0now :)
15:12 rg0now Ok, so here I go
15:12 nothingmuch we're busy, can't you see? now go away
15:13 nothingmuch bzZZT!
15:13 rg0now now, you confused me
15:13 theorbtwo You can have all the questions you want, but you'll never know if other people have answers to them unless you ask them.
15:13 nothingmuch ok ok fine
15:13 theorbtwo nothingmuch is attempting to make a joke.
15:13 theorbtwo And not doing a very good job of it.  ;)
15:13 rg0now ok, I get it
15:13 rg0now so, is returning multiple arrays froma sub supported?
15:14 rg0now I mean something like this:     return @first, @second;
15:14 rg0now and eating this like: my(@arr1, @arr2) = test;
15:14 rg0now where tst is the sub
15:14 rg0now at the moment, @arr1 slurps up everything
15:15 rg0now even if it should not...:-) as of S6
15:15 autrijus malaire: try again
15:15 autrijus S6 says it should not?
15:15 rg0now I think so
15:15 autrijus color me surprised.
15:15 rg0now but I can never be sure
15:16 autrijus I thought only := does that, and = always flattens.
15:16 rg0now the same should work with array refs (see the example in E6), but it does not work either
15:16 malaire autrijus: now make is failing again
15:16 autrijus I may also be completely wrong.
15:16 autrijus malaire: same register foo?
15:16 malaire yes
15:17 autrijus oh well.
15:17 autrijus time for plan B.
15:17 jabbot pugs - 909 - * deregister
15:17 theorbtwo r909 still gets link error for me.
15:17 nothingmuch theorbtwo: want to contribue something to make HTMLs from the synopses?
15:18 pasteling "theorbtwo" at 84.245.186.25 pasted "link errors" (59 lines, 3.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8364
15:19 Khisanth nothingmuch: aren't those already in HTML?
15:19 autrijus ok. let me try plan B
15:19 nothingmuch well, ont he p6 website they are
15:20 nothingmuch in our tree they aren't
15:20 nothingmuch i'd like to be able to make html -f ext/Perl6-Design/Makefile
15:20 malaire btw, I now have re_tests.t with 1581 todo-tests for rules (some using rx:perl5//), but I'd prefer to commit it only after I get some of it working (just to know the syntax is ok)
15:22 autrijus plan B is committed. try again.
15:24 theorbtwo gcc: pcre.o: No such file or directory
15:24 rg0now ok, I see now, = always flattens, I wanted := as autrijus said (not to mention that := seems to be broken now), so ignore me...:-)
15:24 autrijus theorbtwo: ugh.
15:24 malaire Linking ...  gcc: pcre.o: No such file or directory
15:25 autrijus ok ok I got it :)
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15:27 jabbot pugs - 910 - * plan B
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15:29 autrijus try again.
15:29 elmex has joined #perl6
15:29 autrijus hi elmex!
15:29 autrijus elmex: we have p5 regex now!
15:29 theorbtwo Well, we do, but it doesn't compile for most people.  ;)
15:30 autrijus I think it does now :)
15:30 elmex autrijus: WOHOO
15:30 elmex autrijus: that rox
15:30 elmex autrijus: how? via ghc regex es?
15:30 autrijus elmex: no, PCRE
15:30 autrijus elmex: svn up and try it
15:30 elmex autrijus: ah, ffi interface?
15:30 autrijus yeah.
15:30 elmex cool
15:30 autrijus FFI is such a wonderful thing.
15:30 autrijus and when PGE arrives, we'll just have rsc/RRegex/PGE.hs
15:31 autrijus and voila.
15:31 * autrijus parises the FFI gods
15:31 autrijus praises, even
15:31 autrijus malaire, theorbtwo: how's it compiling?
15:31 malaire Linking ... gcc: pcre.o: No such file or directory
15:31 theorbtwo Same.
15:31 autrijus svn up?
15:31 autrijus or is already latest?
15:32 autrijus I fixed Makefile.PL
15:32 autrijus if still fails, check if src/pcre/pcre.o is there.
15:32 malaire it's latest, r911
15:33 autrijus if not, see if ./pcre.o is there.
15:33 autrijus if it's in either place, copy it to the other place and rerun make.
15:33 autrijus voodoo debugging :)
15:35 malaire I moved src/pcre/pcre.o -> ./pcre.o and linking is OK
15:35 theorbtwo Ah, it needs to be coppied to pcre.o in the root dir of pugs.
15:35 malaire copied, not moved
15:35 scw why is the make command 'ghc --make -o pugs src/Main.hs pcre.o'
15:35 elmex autrijus: you're wonderful ;)
15:36 malaire and simple ~~ seems to be working :)
15:37 jabbot pugs - 911 - * link pcre.o
15:38 theorbtwo ./pugs -e '"foo" ~~ m:perl5/o/ the right syntax?
15:38 elmex autrijus: any knowledge about the speed of pugs with pcre and regexes ?
15:39 theorbtwo Because pugs doesn't think so...
15:39 theorbtwo Oh, rx, not m.
15:39 theorbtwo Now I get a segfault.
15:40 elmex with regex'es there is a lot more pugs can do ;)
15:40 autrijus elmex: every every fast.
15:40 autrijus s/every/very/
15:41 autrijus bad autocompletion.
15:41 elmex autrijus: really? compared to raw c speed?
15:41 autrijus sure. because pcre is raw c ;)
15:41 elmex autrijus: what about the haskell interface around the ffi stuff?
15:41 autrijus GHC compiles down to C.
15:41 stevan morning all
15:41 autrijus so, negligible overhead.
15:42 nothingmuch aren't haskell strings linked lists though?
15:42 elmex autrijus: well, if you put a for (long l = 0; l < MAX_LONG; l++); somewhere it wont be fast C ;)
15:42 nothingmuch or are they special case optimized?
15:42 autrijus nothingmuch: they are almost always optimized.
15:42 autrijus would be crazy if not
15:42 nothingmuch that's good
15:43 stevan nothingmuch: I did a bunch of linking last night, but I am not sure I did it correctly
15:43 nothingmuch stevan++
15:43 * stevan needs to read the Synopsis again
15:43 nothingmuch yes, i saw
15:43 stevan nothingmuch++
15:43 nothingmuch it looks right
15:43 stevan cool
15:43 nothingmuch now, i'm going through trying to fudge the output a bit
15:43 stevan I think Pod::SAX is probably a good idea
15:44 stevan event based stream parsing ++
15:44 nothingmuch stevan: i think it's too much trouble though
15:44 elmex autrijus: slow programs can be written also in C ;)
15:44 nothingmuch theorbtwo had a good ide
15:44 stevan nothingmuch: I have never use it actually so I cant really say
15:44 stevan but I like SAX
15:44 stevan Coltrane is my favorite ;)
15:45 theorbtwo nm, I'll code it up if you tell me what I should work off of.
15:45 nothingmuch sax is nice, yes =)
15:45 nothingmuch but i like it only when I'm not being Q&D
15:45 nothingmuch like when i want to use SMP, or if latency is an issue, or if i need to handle big things
15:45 nothingmuch theorbtwo: i would like to have a reliable way to get HTML from the Sxx.pod files
15:45 stevan autrijus: I am getting a make error on OSX with the new reg-exp stuff
15:45 nothingmuch like the ones on http://dev.perl.org/perl6/synopsis/sxx.html
15:46 nothingmuch maybe with their pretty CSS stolen
15:46 nothingmuch theoretically this is only pod2html
15:46 nothingmuch but i've never gotten along with it
15:46 theorbtwo Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
15:46 autrijus it's Pod::Simple
15:46 autrijus better than pod2html.
15:46 autrijus but anyway.
15:46 stevan autrijus: if you get reg-exp working, I will to re-work File::Spec so we can actually use it
15:46 nothingmuch well, same thing as far as i'm concerned
15:46 autrijus folks, please rm pcre.o and svn up and retry building
15:47 jabbot pugs - 912 - * add pcre makefile
15:47 autrijus stevan: that'd be great.
15:47 theorbtwo rm'd all of the pcre.os, make clean, perl Makefile.PL, make...
15:48 stevan autrijus: it uses classes, but I can convert it to modules for now
15:48 stevan without VMS support of course :P
15:48 autrijus sure :P
15:49 theorbtwo ...makes, but still segfaults on actually tying to do anything with the RE engine.
15:49 theorbtwo /tmp/ghc16867.hc: In function `RRegexziPCRE_zdwccall_entry': :519: warning: assignment discards qualifiers from pointer target type
15:50 autrijus that's the only warning?
15:50 theorbtwo Yep.
15:50 stevan ok, I am outta here, I will be back later on &
15:50 autrijus do you have gdb fu to see the error? :)
15:50 theorbtwo Is there any way to compile that will make gdb able to give useful stack traces?
15:51 theorbtwo Not really, no.  pcre_stack_malloc is what bt #0 shows, but after that it's all ??s.
15:51 autrijus inking.
15:51 autrijus thinking.
15:52 autrijus hm.
15:52 autrijus can you download pcre by yourself
15:52 autrijus run configure
15:53 autrijus and compare config.h with src/pcre/config.h in pugs?
15:53 autrijus I'm trying to see a way out of requiring autoconf.
15:54 autrijus wow. the tibetan test in t/syntax/unicode.t fails
15:54 autrijus because it uses $༢
15:54 autrijus and that's a digit in tibetan
15:55 autrijus so we try to use it as $1 $2 etc
15:55 nothingmuch hah!
15:55 autrijus and that fails
15:55 nothingmuch i love for-free correctness
15:55 nothingmuch it makes me feel fuzzy on the inside
15:55 nothingmuch but not like i have hairballs, in a good way
15:56 autrijus :)
15:56 theorbtwo LOL
15:56 elmex autrijus: why a perl 6 interpreter, why didn't you chosse a VM as backend ? ;-) *G*
15:56 autrijus elmex: oh. you wasn't around earlier
15:56 autrijus I was asking what I should do today: a Compile.hs or a RRegex.hs
15:56 elmex autrijus: me doesn't change anything ;)
15:56 autrijus because I think I can do either in an afternoon
15:56 autrijus and someone says regex is more practical
15:56 autrijus so here we are.
15:57 elmex well, regex does rcok
15:57 autrijus so another afternoon :)
15:57 autrijus and we'll have a Compile.hs.
15:57 nothingmuch autrijus: you mean, err, like rules?
15:57 nothingmuch only a subset of them?
15:57 elmex korc... erm... kroc... ack... rokc...ar... rock
15:57 autrijus nothingmuch: RRegex is p5 regex.
15:57 autrijus nothingmuch: we have it now :)
15:57 autrijus except some people segfaults.
15:57 autrijus but I'm fixing it.
15:57 nothingmuch ah, you were asking
15:57 nothingmuch i thought you were asking now
15:58 elmex i love segfaults, they are so easyly to debug with gdb ;)
15:58 theorbtwo Huh?  Looks byte-for-byte identical.
15:58 malaire autrijus: should I commit my re_tests.t file, even if pcre dies on some tests?
15:58 malaire e.g. C< "ab" ~~ rx:perl5/a\(*b/ > gives pugs: user error (PCRE Regular Expression Error: a(b   ^ missing ))
15:58 autrijus theorbtwo: huh. so compile your pcretest
15:58 autrijus theorbtwo: and does it secfault?
15:58 autrijus wait wait wait.
15:58 autrijus aha. that's a pugs bug.
15:58 autrijus interpolation is limited to vars
15:58 autrijus not backslashes
16:00 malaire should I commit those tests? (they are within eval '', but that error still quits the testing)
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16:01 theorbtwo Looks like pcretest works.
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16:03 autrijus malaire: I fixed it.
16:03 autrijus so please commit ahead
16:04 autrijus r913 is my fix.
16:05 autrijus theorbtwo: ok. so it's FFI
16:05 malaire I'll do quick test first..
16:05 autrijus theorbtwo: can you grab http://repetae.net/john/computer/haskell/hsregex/
16:05 autrijus and see if _that_ works?
16:07 gaal hello and autrijus++, no **, for RRegex!
16:07 jabbot pugs - 913 - * escapes in p5 regex is passed to pcre,
16:07 autrijus :D
16:07 theorbtwo Blink, blink...
16:08 theorbtwo Double-#define of HAVE_REGEX_H, then a missing pcre/pcre.h... even after I install libpcre3-dev
16:08 theorbtwo Oh, also, tlk: command not found.
16:08 autrijus :(
16:08 autrijus wow.
16:08 autrijus that's something.
16:08 autrijus blink indeed.
16:09 autrijus try passing -L ?
16:09 autrijus err -I
16:09 theorbtwo Looks like I have /usr/include/pcre.h and it expects <pcre/pcre.h>
16:09 autrijus hand fix then.
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16:11 theorbtwo Did, works.
16:11 theorbtwo With warnings as before.
16:12 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
16:13 autrijus but no segfaults.
16:13 malaire ok, few more tests coming in...
16:14 malaire (if you plan on doing "make test", take good breath and relax -- it *will* take some time)
16:14 autrijus ok. now to find a poem to RRegex.
16:14 malaire r914 (and now I need to go off until Monday...)
16:14 autrijus A king he was on carven throne
16:14 autrijus In many-pillared halls of stone
16:14 autrijus With golden roof and silver floor,
16:14 autrijus And runes of power upon the door...
16:17 jabbot pugs - 915 - * Licenses, poetry, the usual deal.
16:17 jabbot pugs - 914 - Few tests for rules, 1581 to be exact
16:17 autrijus er.
16:17 autrijus wow.
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16:17 * autrijus is at a loss of words
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16:19 autrijus uhm. someone planning to unTOTO the passing ones?
16:19 autrijus and comment out the p6 rules for now?
16:19 autrijus (just to preserve sanity until 6.283)
16:19 autrijus unTODO, even
16:19 autrijus I need to 1)journal 2)sleep.
16:20 autrijus theorbtwo: sorry for pugs still segfaulting for you. :-( will definitely look tomorrow
16:21 theorbtwo No prob.
16:21 theorbtwo Sleep well.
16:21 autrijus thanks!
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16:36 nothingmuch anybody know of a cheap mkdir -p in perl?
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16:36 nothingmuch i have some tricks that keep getting better
16:36 nothingmuch but i never like them
16:36 Limbic_Region there's a module that does that
16:36 gaal nothing: split on /, create all sections failing silently
16:36 gaal or file::path, yes
16:37 jabbot pugs - 917 - * disable p6 rules tests for now.
16:37 jabbot pugs - 916 - * move p5 regex parts out
16:37 nothingmuch perlbot nopaste
16:37 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
16:38 gaal (or doing an incremental -d test)
16:38 gaal it's actually fun to implement in functional style
16:40 nothingmuch File::Path it is
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16:43 gaal you get this warning too with latest r?
16:43 gaal Chasing modules from: src/Main.hs
16:43 gaal Compiling RRegex.PCRE      ( src/RRegex/PCRE.hs, src/RRegex/PCRE.o )
16:43 autrijus what warning?
16:44 autrijus journal up, I'm going to sleep now. :)
16:44 gaal warning: assignment discards qualifiers from pointer target type
16:44 gaal but go to sleep :)
16:44 autrijus right.
16:44 autrijus does it cause segfault?
16:44 autrijus try cd into src/pcre
16:44 autrijus and do a
16:44 gaal still compiling
16:44 Limbic_Region sleep well autrijus
16:44 autrijus perl -pi -e's/register //g' *
16:44 autrijus and see if that fixes it
16:44 autrijus if yes, commit it
16:44 autrijus or it may be unsignedness.
16:44 autrijus good night!
16:44 autrijus &
16:45 gaal ok, autrijus, but please sleep :)
16:46 nothingmuch ok, i have something to share
16:47 gaal k
16:47 gaal whoa, many many new tests!
16:47 gaal oh, it's just reorg -> builtins/
16:48 * gaal has been out of things for so long! like, 30 hours
16:48 nothingmuch hehe
16:50 Limbic_Region right - anyone watching Pugs development will have to rethink the whole "Rome wasn't built in a day" thing
16:51 gaal nothing: is &todo_is yours? i'm getting a haskell error about it in t/rules/perl5
16:52 gaal or did autrijus say he was deferring that?
16:52 nothingmuch gaal: i todo_is is pretty old
16:52 gaal but it looks like a haskell todo_is
16:52 nothingmuch but t/rules/perl5 is new, and malaire should know about it
16:52 gaal no sorry
16:52 nothingmuch then i really don't know
16:52 gaal i'm undercaffinated
16:52 nothingmuch i've been working on tests catalogging
16:53 nothingmuch so i'm a bit out of date myself ;-)
16:53 gaal it looks like a use problem, probably
16:53 gaal let me unconfuse myself a but
16:53 gaal bit
16:57 gaal beh, there's a random death there, apparently it doesn't parse very well :) but there are no coordinates, i'll try binary searching for the problem.
16:57 gaal vi++
16:59 gaal well, that binary search would have been a little useless, since it fails already in the first test.
16:59 gaal good thing i did a sanity test first :) (890 tests!)
17:00 gaal nothingmuch, you wanted tyo share sometihng before?
17:00 nothingmuch gaal: err, broke it again in the meanwhile
17:00 nothingmuch give me 10 mins
17:00 nothingmuch this is with pod output backend
17:00 nothingmuch i'm not doing HTML yet
17:00 masak has joined #perl6
17:00 nothingmuch for HTML i'd like a more Devel::Cover type output
17:01 koster has joined #perl6
17:01 gaal but he went to sleep till monday.
17:01 nothingmuch who? what? where?
17:03 gaal sorry, that referred to malaire knowing about the parsefails, my scrollbar was wrongly positioned
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17:05 nothingmuch ah
17:05 gaal i don't get it. earlier i mentioned a warning and autrijus recommended going to src/RRegex and s/register//ing the code. i did  a grep first, and the word register only occurs in an object file, nowhere in the source.  must be coming from a library?
17:05 gaal ah, scratch that
17:05 gaal he said src/prce, not src/RRegex
17:07 gaal the s/// didn't help, FWIW
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17:35 nothingmuch good food... mme
17:35 gaal food's a gopod idea, and my cat agrees.
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19:02 elmex talk
19:02 gaal blah blah blah
19:02 elmex hmm
19:02 elmex not much information in that sentence
19:03 gaal "0 but true"
19:06 elmex ;(
19:08 cnhackTNT|zZZ has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
19:08 gaal what information are you seeking?
19:09 elmex entertaining talk about pugs
19:09 * bd_ has a patch for elsif support - anyone interested? :)
19:09 bd_ http://bd.beginyourfear.com/~bdonlan/pugs-elsif.patch
19:10 elmex hmm, why no t commit it?
19:10 bd_ I don't have committer access
19:10 elmex bd_: get svn access, ask i.e. autrijus for it
19:10 bd_ So, I'm placing it here for someone with committer access to see it
19:10 gaal ooh, bd_, cool. does the patch come with tests? there are no tests for elsif, embarrasingly
19:11 bd_ gaal: Yes, it has 16 tests for if...elsif, if...elsif...else, unless..elsif, and unless...elsif...else
19:11 gaal bd_++
19:11 elmex wow
19:11 * gaal tries patch
19:13 bd_ I'm a bit new as haskell and such, so feel free to point out if my style is lacking or whatever :)
19:13 bd_ at*
19:14 gaal bd_, i'm not a haskell hacker mylsef but if it runs here and passes the tests i'll check it in and the gang can review it when they wake up
19:14 bd_ okay
19:15 elmex it's so early ...
19:16 gaal not in tw
19:16 gaal GMT+7, i think
19:16 bd_ It's 2pm where I am :)
19:19 gaal uh, i'm new to subversion/svk, how do i apply your patch? :) (i haven't had svk itself installed till now)
19:20 gaal --my tree is pure svn
19:20 bd_ you can just use patch
19:20 bd_ the svk block is optional
19:20 gaal k
19:21 bd_ tbqh, I only know how to generate svk patchblocks, not how to apply them :)
19:21 bd_ but anyway I'll just kill my local branch once the patch is merged so I don't need to worry about mergng
19:21 bd_ merging*
19:23 gaal linking takes ages on this machine :(
19:25 nothingmuch yuck, i hate bad code
19:25 gaal r918, ++bd_
19:26 bd_ thanks :)
19:26 gaal bd_, talk to autrijus tomorrow (your evening) about commit privs
19:26 gaal uh, your this evening that is
19:26 gaal which will be his tomorrow
19:26 nothingmuch or obra, or bestian, or hcchien
19:27 gaal and thank *you* :)
19:27 jabbot pugs - 918 - bd_'s elsif patch
19:27 bd_ okay. In the meantime I'll look at some todo tests maybe
19:27 jabbot has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
19:27 nothingmuch god damnit, i hate cargo culting
19:27 nothingmuch i hate arbitrary decisions that don't make sense
19:28 nothingmuch i hate artificial limitations that make utility code useless
19:28 gaal nothingmuch in a good mood :)
19:28 gaal ! the music stopped!
19:29 nothingmuch you don't want to know... =P
19:29 nothingmuch the good news
19:30 nothingmuch who wants to see the backlinks in html?
19:31 gaal nm, i'm out of that debate - don't think i understand enough.
19:31 jabbot has joined #perl6
19:31 nothingmuch it's really simple now
19:31 nothingmuch one second
19:32 gaal nm: i want to aggregate several comparisons in one ok() test. is there a neat way? the comparisons are deep.
19:32 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status/
19:33 gaal oh, and i'm in perl5 right now.
19:33 nothingmuch is_deeply
19:33 nothingmuch from Test::More
19:33 nothingmuch ah, you're in luckl
19:33 nothingmuch you don't have to port it ;-)
19:33 nothingmuch anyway, in that link, start browsing by synopsis
19:34 gaal "description: got the value we expected" x 1000 is kinda boring :)
19:34 gaal (that was re: your link)
19:34 gaal but is_deeply _is_ the test
19:34 gaal i want to do something like
19:34 gaal my @problems = grep { comparison failed test } @things_to_compare;
19:35 gaal ok(!@problems) or diag (@problems)
19:35 nothingmuch gaal: tell whoever wrote the test that description is boring
19:35 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status/Synopsis/S06.html#Blocks
19:35 nothingmuch Test::Deep is smarter than Test::More
19:35 nothingmuch and it has an eq_deeply
19:35 metaperl Test::More has is_deeply doesn't it?
19:35 nothingmuch i think it's reporting will make you happier
19:35 gaal this is quite nifty, actually, nm!
19:36 nothingmuch metaperl: appearantly that's not good enough
19:36 kungfuftr Test::Plan++ # lovely
19:37 gaal BTW: if anyone here has mingw and wants to fix pcre/RRegex there, i'd be much obliged :)
19:37 nothingmuch kungfuftr++; # good link
19:38 kungfuftr seems dead, but been a fair bit of cvs activity recently
19:38 gaal it not building there forces me to use the slow machine and violates impatience :)
19:38 kungfuftr bah
19:38 kungfuftr wrong chan
19:38 kungfuftr =0)
19:38 kungfuftr nothingmuch: which link?
19:38 nothingmuch Test::Plan
19:38 kungfuftr ah
19:38 * gaal could never ever understand how hardcore ircers listen on more than one channel
19:39 nothingmuch damnit, bug in s06
19:39 nothingmuch sort o
19:39 nothingmuch f
19:39 kungfuftr nothingmuch: http://kungfuftr.com/code/mozilla/search/
19:39 kungfuftr also handy
19:40 nothingmuch L<Sxx/""This is a title""> doesn't work, nor does L<SXX/"\"This is a title\"">, and neither does E<>
19:40 nothingmuch how the hell can you link to =head "This is a title"?
19:40 nothingmuch kungfuftr: /me uses safari. it's isn't as flexible, but it's much faster on my aging laptop
19:40 gaal Xanadu?
19:41 gaal kungfuftr, why not use the cool url quicksearch feature?
19:43 nothingmuch stevan: ping
19:44 gaal nm: test::deep carries two dependencies :( will we have something like it in pugs Test?
19:45 nothingmuch pugs test? err, maybe
19:45 nothingmuch probably not soon
19:45 nothingmuch it's a big thing to port
19:45 nothingmuch although it should be trivial to port given the current status
19:45 jabbot nothingmuch: thou speakst also ye olde English?
19:45 gaal okay, brief status on my part:
19:46 nothingmuch does jabbot come with a volume dial?
19:46 gaal after discussing the p6 command line the other day, i've been looking into Getopt::Declare
19:47 nothingmuch i don't like things that parse strings unnecessarily
19:47 nothingmuch they seem breakable
19:48 nothingmuch but this one... errm. I dunnoh.
19:48 nothingmuch i've always had mixed feelings, but never used it.
19:48 gaal (we decided pure bsd or gnu getopt wasn't powerful enough; and i proposed to see if G:D was powerful enough, and maybe port it to haskell. Autrijust had the brilliant idea of having pugs parse its own command line using an embedded *perl6* g:d.)
19:49 gaal so, i wanted to test if g:d could indeed parse p5's command line, yes?
19:49 gaal and i found that probably it could
19:49 nothingmuch hmm
19:49 gaal but both are comples
19:49 gaal complex
19:49 larsen has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:49 gaal and g:d doesn't have a test suite :)
19:49 gaal so first off i've been writing a p5 command line g:d spec
19:50 gaal and writing a test suite for that spec
19:50 nothingmuch ok, so make perlrun into a quick test suite for g:d
19:50 nothingmuch submit it to dconway
19:50 gaal now, p5's command line is *a good start* for a g:d test suite
19:50 gaal heh
19:50 nothingmuch how is it passing so far?
19:51 gaal well, it's not completely *running* so far, because i wanted to organize the test around a declerative spec too
19:52 gaal check_parse($_) for @tests,
19:52 gaal where each $_ contains a command line, the options it expects and those that it doesn't, etc.
19:53 gaal there are lots of bits and pieces -- eg should anythign of the comand line not be parsed? sure: everything after the options turns into the *script's* @ARGV, and so on
19:53 gaal plus if there are parse errors, make a bid on what they should be
19:54 gaal (btw, g:d currently diags to stderr so i'll have to wrap that or hack it to give me the erorrs where i want them)
19:55 nothingmuch Test::Output should help yyou
19:55 gaal so i need some machienery to do these tests
19:55 nothingmuch err, IMHO if you need the tools, don't be shy with dependancies
19:56 gaal ah, keep 'em coming
19:56 nothingmuch use Test::Deep
19:56 nothingmuch itdoes the job, and it does it *very* very well
19:56 gaal ok
19:56 gaal tools++ of course
19:57 gaal but it looks like if we decide to use a p6 version of getopt::declare for pugs own command line parsing, we're in for hella lot of work!
19:57 gaal port: g:d itself
19:57 nothingmuch @tests is a { str => "-a foo -absa", declaration => "", expected => <something describing the results?> }
19:57 gaal write: tests for it
19:57 nothingmuch yes, it seems very daunting
19:57 gaal port: tools for the tests
19:57 gaal but very much fun
19:58 gaal actually str is no good
19:58 gaal because getopt "really" gets an array from originating from the shell (or whoever called exec*)
19:58 gaal so you need str => [ ]
19:59 gaal but yeah, that's the idea
19:59 gaal well, @test is an [ ] of those specs
19:59 gaal yeah
20:00 nothingmuch VM: 6.07G
20:00 nothingmuch damnit
20:00 nothingmuch DAMNIT!:  5117 perl5.9.1   31.9% 50:39.35   1    13   818   619M+ 1.35M  71.7M+ 2.06G
20:00 gaal not sure i like the interface of test::output
20:01 gaal um
20:01 gaal is that for like perl -e 'print grep $$, `ps`' ?
20:02 nothingmuch no, that's the CPAN shell
20:02 gaal holding all of cpan's metadata
20:02 nothingmuch i don't like that
20:02 nothingmuch anyway, time for reboot
20:02 gaal they will so need an sqlite backend soon
20:02 nothingmuch ran out of disk soon
20:09 hide gaal: what's about the interface of Test::Output do you not like?
20:11 gaal i need something that locally captures std(err|out) into a var; right now i want to test what something() returned, THEN i'd wnat to test its return value.
20:11 gaal er
20:11 gaal it's prints, sorry
20:12 hide use stderr_from, or stdout_from
20:12 hide or ($stdout,$stderr)=output_from
20:13 gaal ah, i missed that -- thanks
20:13 gaal cool.
20:14 gaal what perl does this require?
20:14 vladtz has joined #perl6
20:14 hide I've only tested it on 5.8.x
20:14 gaal fer sure won't work before 5.6
20:14 hide looks like it passed a 5.6.0 test
20:15 gaal but i don't think we're targeting that right now :)
20:15 gaal nice. okay, i'll be using it then.
20:15 gaal hide++
20:15 hide my gaol is to add it to pugs
20:15 hide goal even
20:15 gaal gaol is a peculiar word, btw.
20:16 gaal British folks will know it's pronounced like 'jail'
20:16 gaal but that's so surprising!
20:16 integral it is?
20:16 vladtz isn it
20:17 gaal indeed it is. http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&amp;va=gaol&amp;x=0&amp;y=0
20:17 theorbtwo It's been my experince that it is not, but it means the same thing.
20:18 * integral was surprised that it was surprising, not the pronounciation :-P
20:20 vladtz I just got 918, lots of tests fail, are you experiencing the same?
20:20 gaal how many is lots?
20:21 gaal there are known fails.
20:21 vladtz 15/90 scripts, 36/1500+
20:22 gaal that's what i'm getting too (more or less: my suite is still running)
20:23 gaal i think it's "okay"; many things added lately.
20:24 vladtz well itś [probably better to let broken things be broken instead of turning them back into todoś
20:26 gaal mpd++
20:26 gaal http://musicpd.org/
20:39 stevan nothingmuch: ping
20:39 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status/
20:39 stevan yes I saw
20:39 stevan nothingmuch++
20:40 nothingmuch it's horrible, horrible, but ugly, disgusting code
20:40 nothingmuch i hate Pod::Simple now
20:40 stevan who cares about the code
20:40 nothingmuch it's completely unreadable
20:40 stevan I would not expect it to be
20:40 stevan :)
20:40 nothingmuch it is filled with $STUPIDLY_NAMED_GLOBALS
20:40 nothingmuch and the oddest control flow i've ever seen
20:41 gaal $STUPIDLY_NAMED_GLOBALS += $ESPECIALLY_IF_THEY_DONT_MEAN_WHAT_THEY_SAY;
20:41 nothingmuch so anyway, i'd like a see session, to clean it up a bit
20:41 nothingmuch before i check it in
20:42 gaal ($ESPECIALLY_IF_THEY_DONT_MEAN_WHAT_THEY_SAY is negative, you see)
20:42 nothingmuch and after the checkin
20:42 nothingmuch i'd like to make it use HTML directly
20:42 gaal with spiffy CSS it will be very beautifoul
20:42 nothingmuch gaal: CSS does not concern me much... we can just steal it from dev.perl.org
20:42 nothingmuch it probably also uses Pod::Simple
20:42 vladtz and it would be nice if you could see pass or fail at a galnce...
20:43 vladtz s/al/la/
20:43 gaal yay, that woud be cute indeed
20:43 stevan nothingmuch: I cant do a SEE session now
20:43 stevan why dont you check in and I will fiddle with it later
20:43 nothingmuch vladtz: errm, in the results?
20:43 stevan I promise not to hold the code against you
20:43 nothingmuch they take too long to generate
20:43 gaal and have test::harness listen on a high port and you can point your browser to localhost:l337 and see the green add up
20:44 vladtz in the overview, and in the indivdual test as well, why not?
20:44 * stevan wants to start writing some oo tests soon
20:45 nothingmuch vladtz: i have a slow going pet project to generalize Test::Harness into an object that can get commands and dispatch events
20:45 nothingmuch which can then be wrapped with a thin daemon
20:45 nothingmuch thus enabling crap like this to be easier
20:45 nothingmuch vladtz: the correlation of the data is hard
20:45 vladtz it need not be done overnight
20:46 nothingmuch vladtz: conceptually if you have a nice way to do it, why not
20:46 nothingmuch but i don't see how to make the link, and not lose out on a lot
20:48 vladtz test::harness does have the info (from what I see in the test summary), combining it might be tough I agree
20:49 elmex hmpf
20:51 vladtz bye bye
20:51 vladtz has quit IRC ("Leaving")
20:51 gaal bye vladtz
20:51 gaal too slow :)
20:57 elmex hmm
20:58 gaal hey elmex, what's up?
20:58 cnhackTNT|zZZ has joined #perl6
20:59 elmex dunno... i'm sitting here listening to mp3's of an old friend and my mind is chewing a problem about a private project... and i wonder whether i get sick within next days, not feelin that well
20:59 elmex and i feel a pity that my haskell skills are so bad
21:00 nothingmuch r919
21:00 gaal there's hella lot to be doing in t/
21:01 elmex and i wonder whether there is also hell a lot to be doing in pugs itself...
21:01 elmex besides the tests
21:01 gaal the tests are supporting very rapid development, so they're important
21:02 gaal plus, you get to write in perl6, not haskell
21:02 gaal :)
21:02 elmex i hate tests...
21:02 gaal so port a module
21:02 elmex i don't know what to test
21:03 elmex echo "#!/usr/bin/push; use v5;"; cat FavoritePerl5Module.pm >> Perl6Module.pm ;-)
21:03 elmex s/push/pugs/
21:04 gaal heh
21:04 elmex btw. for a highlevel vm, whats better, stackbased or registerbased?
21:05 gaal *shrug* outside my field of competence
21:05 integral stack based means you don't have to do register allocation which is rather tricky
21:05 elmex integral: yes, thats why i tend to think about a stack... it's easier...  and maybe as fast if you do it clever...
21:06 integral there's small tricks that make stacks faster, like how you allocate them
21:06 elmex i guess i will do that..
21:06 lumi_ has joined #perl6
21:06 lumi_ Hi
21:06 integral OTOH quite a few virtual machines just use chained frames of variables, which makes continuations easy
21:06 gaal hi lumi_
21:06 nothingmuch hola lumi
21:06 theorbtwo OTOH, register-based means you can apply lots and lots of research into how to optimize things on real machines, which is why parrot is register-based.
21:07 theorbtwo (Mostly.)
21:07 jabbot pugs - 919 - Now creates a tree of pods, with bidirec
21:07 lumi_ I have a thought about the linkin'
21:07 jabbot lumi_: thou speakst also ye olde English?
21:07 nothingmuch damnit jabbot!
21:07 lumi_ A bot digs its way towards /ignore
21:07 elmex theorbtwo: i just don't understand why parrot limits itself to a limited number of registerts
21:08 lumi_ If the test thing could output to some file: "$filename $line $pass" and then if it exists you can merge it in the html
21:08 theorbtwo I don't 100% understand it myself.
21:08 elmex ah, i know how to pass the data... lol
21:08 lumi_ I think that's the simplest way
21:09 theorbtwo Blink, blink... nm, should catalog_tests spew warnings?
21:10 elmex theorbtwo:  i don't see the point with limited registers in parrot... why make a extra-layer with PASM and IMCC? it's imho not the simplest way to limit myself to few registers and then do registerallocations all myself for those... well... i'm no expert...
21:11 lumi_ Also, and not to pick any nits, but that would be middle English and not old English
21:11 theorbtwo nothingmuch?
21:11 jabbot theorbtwo: nothingmuch is attempting to make a joke.
21:12 nothingmuch theorbtwo: sorry
21:12 nothingmuch yes
21:12 nothingmuch those are links it couldn't parse
21:12 nothingmuch or couldn't find in the synopses
21:13 gaal i must be too sleepy. why is this a syntax error?     map { "-$_" => "-$_" } split //, $args;
21:13 theorbtwo Not just those, a lot of Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at /usr/share/perl/5.8/Pod/ParseUtils.pm line 59[01].
21:13 nothingmuch ah
21:13 nothingmuch i had to fix that
21:13 nothingmuch vim that file
21:13 nothingmuch and s/$text/$node/
21:14 nothingmuch so much for use strict... *sigh*
21:14 gaal beh :/
21:14 theorbtwo Edit Pod::ParseUtils ?
21:15 theorbtwo Err... yep, looks like it...
21:15 nothingmuch uhuh
21:15 gaal why doesn't map like me?
21:16 gaal or: map likes me, split doesn't like map. why?
21:16 theorbtwo Hm.
21:17 theorbtwo Ah.  Well, did you actually want that to return a hashref?
21:17 gaal hashref? why?
21:17 gaal a list
21:18 gaal made into a hashref, later, surely
21:18 theorbtwo Put a + in front of the first quote.
21:18 gaal but this shoudl take "asdf" and turns it into ( "-a" => "-a", "-s" => "-s"  etc.
21:19 gaal errrr
21:19 gaal i'll be.
21:19 gaal ++theorbtwo
21:19 theorbtwo It sees the curlies, knows it can either be a hashref or a coderef, looks ahead one more token, sees that it's not a function, and assumes it's a hashref, then gets confused when it doesn't see a comma after the EXPR in a map EXPR, LIST.
21:20 theorbtwo The parser can't handle enough lookahead.
21:20 gaal yes, i understand -- only i usually had it in the other way around
21:20 gaal so i didn't think of that
21:21 gaal and the compiler error was regretfully about the "} split"
21:21 gaal so thanks :)
21:23 theorbtwo This is why perl6 doesn't have a map EXPR, LIST form.
21:24 gaal perl6++ then # adding to the tally
21:28 ihb has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:30 * elmex sad
21:31 * gaal sad he has lots of $work this coming week
21:33 gaal okay, i have a first shot at a simple "harness" for g:d tests
21:33 gaal prolly shouldn't go in pugs yet though
21:33 jabbot gaal: thou speakst also ye olde English?
21:33 gaal middle and up, jaboot.
21:35 gaal Whan that April with his showres soote / The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, /  And bathed every veine in swich licour, Of which vertu engendred is the flowr
21:35 gaal (etc. etc)
21:35 sorje has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
21:37 gaal anyone interested in testing this further?
21:37 gaal the intention: verify Getopt::Declare can parse perl5's command line
21:47 elmex hmm, i got over my heavy-tired-phase of the day... now i can work on for hours...
21:52 coaster has joined #perl6
22:11 stevan nothingmuch: ping
22:11 nothingmuch pong
22:11 stevan hey, lumi's idea about integrating the tests
22:11 nothingmuch say again?
22:11 stevan there is now a feature in Test.pm to log tests
22:11 stevan <lumi_>If the test thing could output to some file: "$filename $line $pass" and then if it exists you can merge it in the html
22:11 nothingmuch i say after HTML backend
22:12 stevan nothingmuch: yes, later
22:12 nothingmuch there is another problem
22:12 stevan but we have the test output abilities now
22:12 nothingmuch tests are not always linear
22:12 nothingmuch that's good
22:12 nothingmuch i don't know how to map line <-> test_case
22:12 nothingmuch because line can be N test cases
22:12 stevan ture
22:12 stevan s/true/ture/
22:13 nothingmuch and if we go into that, well, solve the halting problem and i'll do the rest, i promise
22:13 stevan :P
22:15 nothingmuch anyway
22:15 nothingmuch i have to go
22:15 nothingmuch but i want it to be two phased
22:15 nothingmuch i will try to give the catalog_tests.pl script another whirr
22:15 nothingmuch first convert all tests to html
22:15 nothingmuch and all syns to html
22:15 nothingmuch conversion of tests to html should be clever
22:15 stevan check it in ,.. I will try to look itover tonight
22:15 nothingmuch but not too clever
22:15 nothingmuch i did
22:15 stevan ok
22:15 stevan nothingmuch++
22:15 nothingmuch and then HTML::TreeBuilder or other should be used to implant backlinks in the synopsis HTML
22:15 nothingmuch based on where the L<> match *ends*
22:16 nothingmuch or right after the heading it points to
22:16 nothingmuch as a superscript '1 2 3', a number for each test, with <a name="name_of_test.t" >
22:16 nothingmuch i'll write all this at the top of the file
22:17 jabbot pugs - 920 - This script is no longer necessary
22:17 * gaal is calling it a moose soon too
22:17 rozallin has joined #perl6
22:17 theorbtwo Moose?
22:18 nothingmuch hola rozallin
22:18 rozallin Hello.
22:18 gaal http://forum2.org/moose/
22:18 gaal hey
22:18 nothingmuch see://woobling.org
22:22 gaal yawn
22:22 gaal well, bye all
22:22 * gaal &
22:22 rozallin Night gaal.
22:25 nothingmuch stevan: 921
22:25 nothingmuch adds todo
22:25 * nothingmuch goes now.. *poof*
22:25 stevan nothingmuch: good night
22:27 jabbot pugs - 921 - add a list of todos and remove idiotic '
22:29 coaster has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:32 bd_ hmm, what's the correct way to get/set the topic in a reduction rule (Eval.hs)?
22:32 bd_ findVar env "$_" doesn't seem to work in a for loop
22:41 cm has joined #perl6
22:46 masak has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:51 autrijus hi /\camels!
22:52 autrijus bd_: to get a topic, evalVar "$_"
22:52 rozallin has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
22:52 autrijus to set a topic, use enterLex
22:54 elmex autrijus: hi
22:54 autrijus greetings.
22:54 bd_ hmm, I've been doing that, but it acts a bit weird. I've been working on implementing given/when, and when the topic is set by given, when uses evalVar "$_" and gets the topic ok. But if it's in a for loop, ti only works if the expression in the when or the when's code block references $_
22:54 cm autrijus of pugs fame.
22:54 bd_ pugs> for (1) { when (1) { say "x" } }
22:54 bd_ Fail: cannot cast as Str: VError "Undefined variable $_" (Val VUndef)
22:55 bd_ pugs> for (1) { when ($_) { say "X" } }
22:55 bd_ X
22:55 bd_ pugs> for (1) { when (1) { say $_ } }
22:55 bd_ 1
22:55 autrijus aye
22:55 bd_ It seems like $_ isn't in the lexical pad when the when reduction rule tries to look it up - how do I override this?
22:55 autrijus you need to extract $_.
22:55 autrijus look at AST.hs
22:56 autrijus I'll attempt a fix now
22:57 jabbot pugs - 922 - * Mark Stosberg caught a typo.
22:57 autrijus are you parsing when() as a App or Syn?
22:57 bd_ ummm, how do I do that? I'm new to the pugs codebase, and I'm not sure what extract does...
22:57 bd_ Syn
22:57 autrijus ok.
22:57 autrijus extract extracts implicit params from closures.
22:57 autrijus it turns
22:57 autrijus { say $^x }
22:57 autrijus into
22:57 autrijus -> $x { say $x }
22:57 autrijus and
22:58 autrijus { say $_ }
22:58 autrijus into
22:58 autrijus -> *$_ { say $_ }
22:58 autrijus bug was it doesn't know 'when' implicitly uses $_.
22:59 bd_ so how do I tell it that?
23:00 autrijus svn up and see my fix?
23:00 bd_ okay
23:00 autrijus had not really tested, but should work
23:00 autrijus in any case you can build on that :)
23:00 bd_ thanks :)
23:00 autrijus I need to run. obra arrived.
23:00 autrijus need to pick him up.
23:00 autrijus see you in a bit!
23:01 theorbtwo Later!
23:03 bd_ src/AST.hs:447:
23:03 bd_    Conflicting definitions for `imps'
23:03 bd_    In the binding group for: imps, imps, exps', vs'
23:03 bd_ [in a pristine checkout]
23:04 pasteling "nullfield" at 67.167.45.157 pasted "how do i modify this to have it where it executes the a command when the button is pressed and a diffreent command when it is released" (23 lines, 446B) at http://sial.org/pbot/8373
23:04 nullfield has joined #perl6
23:05 nullfield ?@?@??!?!/!??
23:05 nullfield OMG HAX!
23:05 nullfield help?
23:05 elmex nullfield: yes, we love you
23:05 nullfield oh
23:05 nullfield how kind
23:05 theorbtwo nullfield, this channel is for perl6, that is perl5.
23:05 theorbtwo Try #perl
23:06 nullfield #perl - no help\
23:06 elmex lol?
23:06 elmex Perl6 <=> Perl Sex ?
23:07 nullfield wow!
23:07 elmex horny pointers exploit your heap ;)
23:08 nullfield lol
23:08 elmex nullfield: how can we serve you?
23:08 nullfield i told you...
23:09 nullfield i need help with binding in tk
23:09 elmex ah
23:09 nullfield i need several button
23:09 elmex i don't know binding...
23:09 nullfield each with two subroutions
23:09 nullfield *subroutines
23:09 elmex nullfield: you mean binding perl6 with tk?
23:09 nullfield one exectuted when the button is pressed...
23:09 nullfield another when it is released?
23:09 nullfield yes
23:09 bd_ I think he's referring to the paste?
23:09 nullfield no
23:10 elmex not perl5 ?
23:10 nullfield im not shure
23:10 elmex there is no real perl6 yet...
23:10 nullfield oh
23:10 nullfield i guesss perl 5
23:10 nullfield tk though
23:10 jabbot nullfield: thou speakst also ye olde English?
23:10 nullfield for gui
23:10 autrijus bd_: fixed
23:10 Khisanth elmex: basically he got no response in #perl so he is trying #perl6
23:11 nullfield jabbot ehh matey
23:11 nullfield no
23:11 elmex Khisanth: ah, thats of much logic ;)
23:11 pjcj nullfield: look up the bind manpage and search for ButtonPress and ButtonRelease
23:11 bd_ autrijus: ah, thanks
23:17 jabbot pugs - 924 - * fix typo
23:17 jabbot pugs - 923 - * Syn "when" should produce $_
23:18 iblechbot has quit IRC (Operation timed out)
23:38 bd_ hm, should all blocks define '&break' or only given? and if only given, how should 'when' break out of the block?
23:42 autrijus last?
23:43 bd_ S04 says in a loop it needs to continue to the next item in the loop, so last wouldn't be good
23:43 autrijus last has to be written last() for now
23:43 autrijus redo?
23:44 bd_ Does that work in an ordinary block?
23:44 bd_ or rather, should it?
23:44 nullfield has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.66 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041107]")
23:44 bd_ S04 says that redo works as in perl 5; in perl 5 { print "y\n" ; redo; print "x\n" } is an infinite loop
23:45 bd_ We don't want when {} in an ordinary block or given to infinite-loop :)
23:45 autrijus aye aye :)
23:46 autrijus please dig deeper
23:46 autrijus I need to hop on MRT car now
23:46 autrijus &
23:46 autrijus pan-wireless city++
23:46 bd_ okay :)
23:46 bd_ If &break being defined in all blocks is ok, I've almost got a complete implementation :)
23:47 bd_ hm, though actually, that's slightly wrong when I think further
23:47 jabbot bd_: thou speakst also ye olde English?
23:51 zgrim has joined #perl6

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