Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-03-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:00 ninereasons bin/mandel.hs:2:30: parse error on input `='
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00:04 crysflame neat
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01:00 autrijus greetings lambdacamels
01:00 autrijus ninereasons: sure, that's only the ast part. you want to full .hs ?
01:01 autrijus s/to/the/
01:05 autrijus obra:
01:05 autrijus http://svn.openfoundry.org/pu​gs/util/catalog_tests.jmm.pl
01:05 autrijus http://svn.openfoundry.org/​pugs/util/catalog_tests.pl
01:06 ninereasons autrijus: I'd like to see it, yes.  I think that I understood the pugs version, and I wanted to compare it to the Haskell version.  
01:06 ninereasons Purely curiosity.
01:07 autrijus ok. the compile.hs helpers isn't all there hyet
01:08 autrijus but http://autrijus.org/mandel.hs
01:08 autrijus uploading now, will take a bit
01:08 autrijus done.
01:09 ninereasons thank you  .. a sec (phone)
01:10 ninereasons I'm missing some modules. but at least I can look at the code.
01:10 ninereasons Thanks.
01:11 autrijus you're missing modules!?
01:11 autrijus ghc --make -isrc src/pcre/pcre.o mandel.hs
01:11 autrijus (with mandel.hs in the pugs checkout root)
01:11 ninereasons "  Could not find module `Internals':
01:11 ninereasons "
01:12 autrijus -isrc is the trick.
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01:14 autrijus still bad?
01:14 autrijus (I'll tie it all together in pugscc)
01:16 ninereasons ah  -- I finally got it to go.
01:16 ninereasons Thank you.
01:16 autrijus so it runs? fast? :)
01:17 theorbtwo has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:18 ninereasons it runs but not fast.  I'm timing it
01:18 ninereasons I was astonished at the times you posted.
01:19 ninereasons It must be a smoking machine.
01:20 ninereasons oh -- that's better.  2 seconds.
01:20 ninereasons 2.831 actually.
01:20 autrijus using ./a.out ?
01:20 autrijus ghc -O2 will help :)
01:21 autrijus I did -O2 on the whole tree.
01:22 autrijus (ghc 6.4, freebsd)
01:22 ninereasons ghc -02 ? what does that mean ?
01:22 ninereasons ah O, not 0
01:24 autrijus -O2 means real slow compilation to get real fast code.
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01:25 ninereasons it knoced off a tenth of a second.
01:28 autrijus did you rm src/*.o and src/*/*.o before doing that?
01:28 autrijus weird. hrm.
01:28 * autrijus decides to work on the PIR backend and not worry too much about GHC now :)
01:29 autrijus oh wait. it's totally my fault.
01:29 ninereasons I'm frankly in awe that you picked up this language so quickly and effectively.  Sorry for being such a sycophant, but man, I'm amazed.
01:30 ninereasons it makes my head hurt trying to read it.
01:30 autrijus http://autrijus.org/optimized.hs
01:31 autrijus to read what? mandel.hs?
01:31 ninereasons haskell
01:31 ninereasons yes, as mandel.hs is an example of it.
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01:32 autrijus eh. compiled target code is not supposed to be easily readable.
01:32 ninereasons ok . but you don't need to try to make me feel better ;-)
01:33 ninereasons http://autrijus.org/optimized.hs is no file
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01:34 autrijus refresh
01:34 autrijus force reload if needed be
01:34 ninereasons proxy cache; I have now.
01:35 autrijus good good
01:36 theorbtwo Hm, what's the current expected failures?  16/95 scripts feels bad.
01:36 autrijus that sounds correct.
01:36 autrijus see stevan's post.
01:37 theorbtwo Where?
01:37 autrijus http://www.nntp.perl.org/gr​oup/perl.perl6.compiler/417
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01:39 stevan theorbtwo: it was about 78 tests failiing when i un-TODOed
01:39 theorbtwo Oh.  OK then.
01:40 autrijus changes topic to: 78 subtests fail | pugscode.org <<Overview Journal>> | pugs.kwiki.org | logged: http://xrl.us/e98m
01:40 stevan theorbtwo: does that match your count
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01:49 theorbtwo No, I have much less then... oh, subtests, not test scripts.
01:49 theorbtwo Yes, 78 exactly.
01:49 ninereasons zowee .26s
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02:17 autrijus upgraded to Data.Map for 6.4.
02:17 autrijus 6.2 people, please see if the tree still builds.
02:18 autrijus benchmarking mandel which used to take 77sec.
02:21 autrijus brb.
02:22 ninereasons pugs is a whole different thing when it's "make optimized"
02:23 hide_ autrijus: it built, couple of warnings.
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02:35 dvergin What are the prospects for getting "make test" to run under WinXP?
02:39 autrijus dvergin: I thought asavige is asking perl-qa
02:40 autrijus dvergin: oh, you can also try upgrading to latest EU::MakeMaker
02:40 autrijus and see if it works
02:40 autrijus mm, now takes 63sec.
02:40 autrijus that's an 20% improvement just by upping to Data.Map.
02:40 autrijus nice
02:41 dvergin Okay. Stand by.
02:41 hide autrijus: you saw latest from subversion compiles on 6.2?
02:41 autrijus yup
02:41 autrijus danke
02:42 autrijus and it's 0.20 now for optimized.hs
02:42 autrijus within 50% from perl5 performance :)
02:43 autrijus i'll brb :)
02:46 dvergin AS ppm ExtUtils::MakeMaker 6.05 does not resolve the "too long" issue with "make test". I can upgrade to EU::MM 6.25 by hand, but will that mess up ppm?
02:47 * dvergin decides to do it anyway and find out!
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02:56 dvergin It's official: upgrading to EU::MakeMaker 6.25 on WinXP does not resolve the "too long" issue for "make test".
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04:19 * Schwern pokes the autrijus
04:20 Schwern Is it just me or is pugs unbuildable from the repo right now?
04:20 Schwern 0 ~/devel/pugs$ make
04:20 Schwern /bin/sh -c true
04:20 Schwern /usr/bin/perl -Iinc util/version_h.pl
04:20 Schwern make: *** No rule to make target `src/pcre/pcre.o', needed by `pugs'.  Stop.
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04:26 hoowa hello good morning
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04:30 flw hello pingzi
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04:58 flw hello cnhackTNT
04:58 flw How to use utf-8 encoding in mIRC? My OS is Windows 2000.
05:01 Khisanth it might not be possible ...
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05:02 flw hello joe
05:03 flw Khisanth: might not be possible?
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05:04 Khisanth flw: with mirc
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05:07 flw thx
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05:38 nothingmuch morning
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06:14 Schwern flw:  http://www.acko.net/node/51
06:15 Schwern flw:  However, consider another IRC client.  XChat.  Chatzilla.  sirc.  
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07:06 nothingmuch autrijus: PING?
07:07 nothingmuch oops, capslock
07:07 nothingmuch i couldn't get [Exp] -> [Val] to work
07:07 nothingmuch it's in too deep
07:07 nothingmuch and also, we need to defer the binding of defaults, and be very clear on how to slurp, and what
07:09 autrijus schweern: fixed I think
07:09 nothingmuch i have a working .assuming
07:09 autrijus (!)
07:09 nothingmuch but it binds everything given partial params
07:09 nothingmuch so the binding is wrong
07:09 autrijus that's ok.
07:09 nothingmuch i have a bit of free time, so i'll work on it now
07:09 autrijus it doesn't affect existing tests?
07:10 nothingmuch not at all
07:10 autrijus please check in for me to see?
07:10 nothingmuch the binding is OK, unless you curry
07:10 nothingmuch in which case default values just set anyway
07:10 autrijus I'm still deep in Compile.hs; just found a poem for it
07:10 autrijus And words unheard were spoken then
07:10 autrijus of folk and Men and Elven-kin,
07:10 autrijus beyond the world were visions showed
07:10 autrijus forbid to those that dwell therein...
07:10 autrijus but please check in .assuming and I'll have a look
07:11 nothingmuch perlbot nopaste
07:11 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
07:11 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 212.143.92.226 pasted "assuming" (9 lines, 348B) at http://sial.org/pbot/8481
07:11 nothingmuch i can check that in, it won't make a difference
07:11 nothingmuch the VSub stuff was already checked in before
07:11 autrijus ok, please do.
07:12 nothingmuch now, i've added funny tracing to bindParams
07:12 nothingmuch bindSomeParams
07:12 nothingmuch it's a bit too eager, is all
07:12 autrijus ok.
07:12 nothingmuch so i'm renaming verifyBindings to finalizeBindings
07:12 nothingmuch which will also handle defaultizing
07:12 nothingmuch now, what I don't get yet, is slurpies
07:13 nothingmuch what is the default array, etc?
07:13 gaal should src/Internals/Map.hi be in svn?
07:13 nothingmuch r992
07:14 gaal looks like it was accidentally svn add'ed to me...
07:16 autrijus gaal: svn up and it should be gone
07:16 autrijus I accidentally checked it in, sorry
07:16 autrijus nothingmuch: ok. so the deal is this
07:17 autrijus if your function has declared at least one slurpy argument
07:17 autrijus and no *@_
07:17 autrijus then a *@_ is added for you by default.
07:17 autrijus similarily
07:17 autrijus if your function has not declared *%_
07:17 autrijus then a *%_ is added for you by default.
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07:30 nothingmuch sorry, back
07:34 nothingmuch autrijus: and what is *@_?
07:34 nothingmuch it is how the slurpy var is implemented?
07:34 nothingmuch and what about old style prototypes?
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07:38 autrijus *@_ is slurpy @_
07:38 autrijus just like perl 5
07:38 autrijus old style prototypes is no more.
07:38 autrijus if you don't specify prototypes, it's as if you specified (*@_, *%_)
07:39 nothingmuch and named params are in %_?
07:39 autrijus yup.
07:39 autrijus pos in @_, nam in %_
07:39 nothingmuch okay
07:39 nothingmuch the dispatch goes like this:
07:39 nothingmuch (interpretation):
07:39 nothingmuch get a list of invocants, and parameters
07:40 nothingmuch bind the invocants to the parameters that are invocantes, in a positional manner
07:40 nothingmuch bind the named parameters to their corresponding named parameters
07:40 nothingmuch then bind positional parameters on a first-come-first-serve basis
07:40 nothingmuch fulfilling required params first, because they are first in the param list
07:40 nothingmuch then slurp all the other arguments into a slurpy param, if at all
07:41 nothingmuch and finally defaultize all the unfilled up optionals with values
07:41 nothingmuch without values
07:41 nothingmuch as I see it, too much params is an error too, btw
07:41 nothingmuch do we do that?
07:41 nothingmuch and defaultScalar maps the +$y = $x stuff, right?
07:42 autrijus no; defaultScalar is currently not used
07:42 autrijus to much invocants is indeed an error.
07:42 nothingmuch autrijus: you know a bit of aix, right? how do you make a loopback mount?
07:42 autrijus I don't know anything about aix :-/
07:43 autrijus I only know enough to get GHC and Perl5 run
07:43 autrijus and then I live in blissful isolation
07:43 nothingmuch hehe
07:43 castaway_ is now known as castaway
07:43 nothingmuch okay, last question
07:43 nothingmuch what do we do, if say, an optional named param was passed in curried
07:44 nothingmuch but required was not, and it's passed in later?
07:44 autrijus that is fine.
07:44 nothingmuch actually, that doesn't matter
07:44 nothingmuch anyway, i think i can handle it, i'll try to do it now
07:44 autrijus nothingmuch++
07:44 autrijus nothingmuch++
07:44 * autrijus fights some more with 6.4's TH
07:44 * nothingmuch has to make up a system to create small mountpoints, for testing product
07:44 castaway has left
07:45 nothingmuch on linux i plan to mount loopback, rm the loopback file, cd to the mount point, and then umount -l it.
07:45 nothingmuch now i have to figure out aix, hpux, solaris, and tru64
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08:32 scw Oops, Language.Haskell.TH is needed now?
08:32 autrijus is it unhappy on 6.2?
08:33 scw err, no. I use 6.4, too.
08:33 scw but seems not default installed with ghc6 package in debian
08:33 autrijus so is TH a problem?
08:33 autrijus !.
08:33 autrijus what is the package name for TH?
08:34 scw What do you mean? I haven't found the correct package to install on Debian.
08:36 autrijus oh.
08:36 autrijus debian simply has no TH?
08:36 autrijus y
08:36 autrijus err, typo
08:38 scw seems so. I got "Can't find module `Language.Haskell.TH'"
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08:40 autrijus that sucks.
08:42 autrijus are you really using 6.4 and not 6.2?
08:42 autrijus can you check again?
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08:46 scw great, I was using 6.2.2. 6.4 is in experimental yet
08:46 scw upgrading
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08:56 elmex gmorning
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09:22 malaire autrijus: you mentioned #parrot in your journal - did you mean #parrot here, or somewhere else?
09:22 malaire (I tried to join #parrot, but there was no-one there)
09:22 autrijus #parrot on irc.perl.org
09:22 malaire ok
09:22 autrijus let me clarify.
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09:22 autrijus journal updated, thanks
09:23 malaire is that logged anywhere?
09:23 obra has joined #perl6
09:24 autrijus not sure.
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09:30 nlv11757_ autrijus
09:30 nlv11757_ is you there?
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09:31 autrijus nlv11757_: yes?
09:31 nlv11757_ ah, i hear you read 'Advanced Topics in Types and Programming Languages' and i wanted your opinion on it
09:32 nlv11757_ i liked pierce's book 'Types and Programming Languages' and was wondering if it was worth buying this new one
09:32 autrijus if you enjoyed TaPL, then definitely!
09:32 nlv11757_ does it has additional value?
09:32 nlv11757_ has=have
09:32 autrijus sure do.
09:32 autrijus most of them are not written by pierce
09:32 nlv11757_ nice, although it's only edited and partly written by Pierce am i correct
09:33 autrijus but by researchers who do the cutting edge thing
09:33 nlv11757_ ow you were too fast
09:33 nlv11757_ :D
09:33 autrijus but the editorship is amazing
09:33 autrijus all chapters actually look coherent.
09:33 autrijus so yes, I'd recommend it.
09:33 nlv11757_ yeah i saw George Necula (main developer of CIL if i'm not mistaken) also
09:33 autrijus nod
09:33 nlv11757_ ah that was my next question, because i really liked the style of TaPL, it really builds up and iteratively add complexitiy
09:33 autrijus I had not finished reading it
09:34 autrijus but for the upcoming Pugs -> Parrot compiler with macro support
09:34 autrijus I gather I need all the help from ATTaPL :)
09:34 autrijus (as in, there's very few prior art on that front)
09:35 nlv11757_ ok, well although i don't know what pugs or parrot is (except of course these talking birds), I'll take your word for it :P
09:35 nlv11757_ im convinced
09:35 autrijus pugs is an implementation of perl 6 :)
09:35 nlv11757_ is that of private interest or your job?
09:35 autrijus see http://pugscode.org/ and click on "Overview"
09:36 autrijus that is my private interest and part of my job.
09:36 autrijus I'm self-employed though, so there's little difference.
09:36 nlv11757_ sounds...vague :) researcher?
09:36 autrijus no, really small business owner
09:37 autrijus but first and foremost just another perl/haskell hacker :)
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09:37 nlv11757_ :)
09:37 nlv11757_ hehe
09:37 nlv11757_ im in doubt what to do after my thesis
09:38 Schwern autrijus:  What was your fix for the tests?  Is the darcs repo lagging behind?
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09:38 autrijus I think the darcs repo is uptodate.
09:38 autrijus my fix was to glob in perl code not on command line.
09:39 Schwern Ahh, I see.  The join threw me off
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09:42 nlv11757_ darn why is a credit card mandatory for ordering this book :S haha
09:42 Schwern Still having the pcre.o trouble
09:43 Schwern http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/2114
09:44 Schwern There's no src/pcre in the darcs repo
09:47 autrijus !
09:47 autrijus fixing
09:48 autrijus try again
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09:49 autrijus better?
09:49 autrijus SCHED_ULE++ # freebsd finally usable for me
09:55 kungfuftr freebsd++
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11:15 elmex hmm
11:16 ihb now when Perl 6 is getting implemented, is there any schedule for when the design will be "complete"?
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11:16 elmex perl 6 will never be complete. perl 5 isn't complete too ;)
11:17 ihb that's why i put complete in quotes.
11:17 elmex ...maybe community realizes, that ?? :: sucks like hell, they will mabybe change it :)
11:17 ihb if you like "when will the whole design stop being experimental?"
11:17 elmex heh
11:17 elmex ihb: i thought the first things were already finished...
11:18 elmex the synopses are the current standart i thought
11:18 elmex and they don't change that much anymore...
11:18 ihb it's the word "current" i don't like in there :-)
11:18 elmex :)
11:18 ihb i still see Larry write "or perhaps we could do that, or perhaps this" or "allow blah, that could be nice", etc.
11:19 elmex ihb: i do that too, for example with the strings. but other aspects of perl6 are already completed and documented... and they won't change that quickly anymore
11:19 elmex well... i'm a little bit surprised too that they still fuss around wit hstrings and stuff.. but that stuf isn't trivial i guess
11:19 ihb personally i hope that perl 6 will be experimental for at least a year after it's be completely implemented according to the docs, so that it can be evaluated, fixed, and then the "real" perl 6 can be released.
11:20 ihb s/s be/s been/
11:33 nothingmuch ihb: that's exactly what pugs is about
11:33 nothingmuch it's the experiment before the "real" perl6 is done
11:34 ihb yeah, i just hope that pugs won't speed up things *too* much (considering the very fast pace it's developing in :-))
11:34 ihb nothingmuch: so do you know if there's any schedule for when the "real" Perl 6 will be done?
11:34 ihb i.e., when can i use Perl 6 in production or semi-production?
11:35 nothingmuch ihb: err, after pugs becomes stable, i think
11:35 nothingmuch i reckon that within 6 months things will begin to slow down
11:35 nothingmuch only minor details will be fleshed out a bit
11:35 nothingmuch clarified
11:36 nothingmuch and perhaps slightly redone
11:36 ihb so, a optimist could say that i can use Perl 6 for real in the fall?
11:36 nothingmuch pugs' perl6
11:36 nothingmuch macros and stuff will probably require implementation in perl6 itself
11:37 nothingmuch and that would take time to reimplement perl6 in perl6
11:37 nothingmuch you can write simple perl6 today, though
11:37 nothingmuch you can start using OO perl when 6.2 comes out
11:37 nothingmuch not much will change
11:37 ihb when will 6.2 come out?
11:38 nothingmuch when we can get to it =)
11:38 ihb haha :-)
11:38 nothingmuch the bottom line is ASAP
11:38 nothingmuch but it will come after other things
11:38 nothingmuch which will take time
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11:39 ihb is two-three months a realistic estimate?
11:39 nothingmuch http://wagner.elixus.org/~autriju​s/darcs/pugs/docs/01Overview.html
11:39 nothingmuch let me find the roadmap for you
11:39 nothingmuch hmm.
11:39 malaire once autrijus said he'd estimate 1-2months per Milestone in roadmap
11:40 nothingmuch like control flow, etc
11:40 nothingmuch i think we're somewhere around 6.0 in some aspects
11:40 nothingmuch errm 6.2
11:40 nothingmuch but halfway there
11:40 nothingmuch there's lots of things missing
11:40 nothingmuch simple variable ops
11:40 nothingmuch simple control structures
11:40 nothingmuch but these things are getting added all the time
11:41 nothingmuch and it's been the real work of the last month or so
11:41 nothingmuch i think we're around 60% on that, maybe more
11:41 nothingmuch that considering the 80-20 rule
11:41 nothingmuch then classes and traits can start being implemented
11:41 nothingmuch but classes and traits are /hard/
11:41 nothingmuch perl6's object system is very complex, in comparison to perl5
11:42 nothingmuch i reckon it can be usable within a week of work, but complete only after 2 months or so
11:42 nothingmuch given different behaviors at runtime/compiletime
11:42 kungfuftr everyone's off to tapei, right?
11:42 nothingmuch MMD issues
11:42 nothingmuch type issues
11:42 nothingmuch etc
11:42 * nothingmuch is not ;-)
11:42 * kungfuftr 's housemate is now using pugs to hack on parrot... yay!
11:42 nothingmuch ihb: is this helping somehow?
11:42 ihb nothingmuch: yeah
11:43 nothingmuch we're working on a way to make the current status of pugs' implementation less opaque
11:43 nothingmuch for example, by indexing test/synopsis correlation
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11:43 nothingmuch ideally we could sort of paint what parts of the synopses are tested
11:43 ihb nothingmuch: yeah, i've read something about you creating some sort of link system between them.
11:43 nothingmuch and what's passing
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11:44 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status <-- you can look at a sort of demo here
11:44 nothingmuch it's got only a few links
11:44 nothingmuch but it's still nice
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11:45 nothingmuch nice example: http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_te​st_status/t/magicals/sub.html#22495752
11:45 ihb i'm curious about this since i'm holding off learning Perl 6 until it's somewhat complete. i want to plan my time and effectively learn Perl 6 and not unlearn things that has changed.
11:45 nothingmuch ihb: most of the basics are pretty clear
11:45 nothingmuch it's not a new language
11:45 nothingmuch it's rather easy, because things are very consistent
11:45 nothingmuch unless they're new
11:45 ihb that's why the basics aren't as interesting :-)
11:46 nothingmuch but they're important =)
11:46 ihb the nice things that'll interest me most is the last implemented i reckon, so i'm holding off until i can play with them.
11:46 nothingmuch you can look at things like t/subroutines/currying.t
11:46 nothingmuch i'm working on that now
11:46 nothingmuch that's basic
11:46 nothingmuch but it's still fun, and useful
11:47 kungfuftr nothingmuch: good learning experience
11:47 nothingmuch well, i'm not working on that now, i'm working on real work, but once the developers are ready and i can make a build, i'll hopefully have some free time
11:47 nothingmuch right now i have to whip up some way to create a throwaway 5mb disk per run on many many systems
11:47 nothingmuch =(
11:47 kungfuftr nothingmuch: which platform?
11:47 nothingmuch (/me would rather code in haskell than in bash)
11:48 nothingmuch linux (using loopbacks, tempfiles, and umount -l), aix (ramdisks, i guess), sunos (lofi), hpux (don't know yet), and tru64 (probably lvm, will have to see)
11:48 ihb i just want to say that you guys working here owns so much credit i don't know how to appropriately express it .-)
11:48 kungfuftr erk... vd++
11:49 nothingmuch ihb: you can help
11:49 nothingmuch give a half hour... 15 minutes each day
11:49 nothingmuch read tests, maybe add a bit
11:49 nothingmuch learn a bit of p6 as you go along
11:49 nothingmuch that's what's really important right now
11:50 kungfuftr (pedantic tests)++
11:50 nothingmuch very important
11:50 nothingmuch for example, that currying test could use a /lot/ of work
11:50 ihb nothingmuch: i've considered it, but i have almost no time. in fact, me talking here now steals too much time from what i'm supposed to be doing, and i need to quit now.
11:50 nothingmuch i've added to it some, but not enough
11:50 nothingmuch heh
11:50 nothingmuch well, anyway, another, easier solution is paypalling money to autrijus
11:51 nothingmuch lets him take more time off dayjob, to work on pugs
11:51 ihb nothingmuch: i would, if i had a job myself :-)
11:51 nothingmuch hah
11:51 nothingmuch well, we don't expect anything
11:51 ihb i know.
11:51 nothingmuch it was nice of you to just say you want to express gratitude
11:52 nothingmuch that is an expression of gratitude in itself =)
11:53 ihb personally i'm afraid i won't even have time to learn Perl 6 enough because of lack of time. :-( (hence me wanting to do it as efficiently as possible)
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12:00 ihb nothingmuch: in case i get free time, how do i submit tests?
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12:00 nothingmuch ihb: you give (autrijus|obra|stevan|me) your email
12:00 nothingmuch and then you get commit access
12:00 nothingmuch oh, |hcchien
12:01 ihb ok.
12:01 nothingmuch then you use svn or svk
12:01 ihb i suppose there's a manual for that, since i've never used svn or svk.
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12:03 nothingmuch svn co http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs
12:03 nothingmuch then cd pugs
12:03 nothingmuch edit some files
12:03 nothingmuch add things
12:04 ihb ok.
12:04 nothingmuch check that 'perl Makefile.PL; make test' is ok
12:04 nothingmuch then 'svn add file/that/you/added'
12:04 nothingmuch and the new versions are sent back to the server
12:04 nothingmuch and 'svn commit file/that/you/added file/that/you/changed'
12:04 nothingmuch and other people can 'svn update' to get the changes you made
12:05 elmex_ ?
12:05 ihb another question: how about porting perl 5 code? will that be helpful in some way?
12:05 nothingmuch yes, very useful
12:05 nothingmuch see some of Darren Duncan's work
12:05 nothingmuch and i think Stevan's too
12:05 nothingmuch File-Spec was ported
12:05 nothingmuch Algorithm-Dependancy was too
12:05 nothingmuch SQL-Routine will come next
12:05 ihb so target is cpan modules?
12:05 nothingmuch (i give distro names because they ported the tests too ;-)
12:05 nothingmuch well, not necessarily
12:06 nothingmuch perl5 code in general serves as a test
12:07 ihb should i try to change as little as possible, or rewrite it in a perl 6 fashion?
12:08 nothingmuch whichever style you like
12:08 ihb i'll probably go with minimal modification then :-)
12:09 malaire btw, what is address for pugs-wiki? (I couldn't find that from pugscode.org)
12:09 nothingmuch pugs.kwiki.org
12:11 ihb ok, thanks a lot for the info nothingmuch. now i have go get busy.
12:11 nothingmuch ciao
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12:23 elmex_ ?
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12:31 nothingmuch elmex?
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12:35 elmex ?
12:42 gaal r1006 simple yaml test harness
12:45 gaal autrijus, what makes the 'recent commits' rss output? i'd like to hack it to make the output a little more interesting (eg. include file list and maybe links to diffs with their previous versions)
12:55 ihb are all apocalypses written now btw?
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13:35 scw stevan: Hello, t/builtin/die.t passed after my patch but there are only three subtests
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13:38 ihb From S02: "A bare closure also interpolates in double-quotish context. It may not be followed by any dereferencers, since you can always put them inside the closure." Later: "The old disambiguation syntax: ${foo[$bar]} ${foo}[$bar] is dead. Use closure curlies instead: {$foo[$bar]} {$foo}[$bar]."
13:38 ihb That second one, "{$foo}[$bar]", looks odd to me. It looks like the closure returns the _scalar_ $foo and you then try to subscript that.
13:38 kungfuftr is MANIFEST being kept up to date?
13:41 ihb so, how should {$foo}[$bar] be read?
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13:45 stevan kungfuftr: the MANIFEST is only being generated for releases
13:46 stevan kungfuftr: too many commits were only the MANIFEST
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13:56 stevan scw: thanks, I am downloading a rebuildign right now
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13:59 kungfuftr stevan: ah... gotcha
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14:04 jabbot pugs - 1006 - YAML test harness
14:04 jabbot pugs - 1005 - * fix building on 6.4; beginning of pugs
14:04 jabbot pugs - 1004 - * reHTMLify
14:04 jabbot pugs - 1003 - * remove the stg_hack from Unicode.C
14:04 lightstep has joined #perl6
14:04 jabbot pugs - 1002 - * Separate linking for UnicodeC as well.
14:04 jabbot pugs - 1001 - * Fix running tests on win32.
14:04 jabbot pugs - 1000 -
14:04 jabbot pugs - 999 -
14:04 jabbot pugs - 998 -  r995@scwnb:  scw | 2005-03-22 16:17:17
14:04 jabbot pugs - 997 -  r994@scwnb:  scw | 2005-03-22 16:13:36
14:04 kungfuftr crazy bot
14:05 theorbtwo Aye.
14:05 gugod :/
14:05 lightstep did the bots commit those herself?
14:05 lightstep s/bots/bot/
14:05 gugod it's just reporting the rss feed
14:06 lightstep but 999 and 1000 seem empty
14:06 scw sorry for that...
14:07 gugod maybe it's because the message it self are empty
14:07 scw This is my first time using svk to push from local branch.
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14:14 stevan anyone using GHC 6.4 on OS X?
14:14 ihb i'm reading S04 now. what does zip(@a;@b) do? i haven't seen that semi-colon before.
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14:15 gugod I just installed it today
14:15 stevan gugod: is it working well for you? I am thinking of upgrading
14:16 stevan ihb: the semi-colon has to do with multi-dimenstional lists
14:16 stevan ihb: i am not sure what it does in zip()
14:16 stevan but with multi-dimensional slices it works liket his
14:16 gugod stevan: I'm not sure if it's the problem of ghc or pugs, but pugs failed on Unicode.hsc :/
14:16 stevan @array[1 .. 5; 10 .. 20]
14:17 stevan each list is a slice on the different dimensions
14:17 stevan at least that is how I understand it
14:17 gugod zip(@a;@b) = put the @a on the left side, @b on the right side, then zip them.  :p
14:17 stevan gugod: hmm, I am compiling the latest with 6.2 I will let you know if it has issues
14:17 ihb if you want context: http://dev.perl.org/perl6/synopsis/S04.html // The C<for> statement
14:17 gugod say, @a=(1,2,3);@b=(7,8,9), zip(@a;@b) = (1,7,2,8,3,9)
14:18 ihb gugod: how's that different from zip(@a, @b)?
14:18 stevan gugod: it compiled fine for 6.2
14:19 ihb in S03 the for() example uses zip(@names, @codes)--no semi-colon.
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14:20 gugod ihb: I think @a,@b are flattern into a single list, that makes a .... one side zipper ? :p
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14:21 ihb i don't think so.
14:22 stevan gaal: you should add yourself as an author to t/README
14:23 stevan gaal: actually I just did it for you :)
14:24 gugod here's the compilation error I got today with ghc 6.4 http://irc.csie.org:8888/124
14:27 gugod ihb: hmm, I was wrong about the flattern thing
14:30 gugod ihb: S09 explains the semicolon, "The semicolon operator"
14:30 ihb how evil to sneak it into S04 without any warning or reference :-)
14:31 gugod evil enough be the head of a world wide evil organization ? (oh he really is!)
14:31 gugod :-p
14:32 stevan ihb: ask on perl6 lang, it may be a typo
14:32 stevan they may be the cabal, but they are still fallible
14:35 gaal strevan: thanks
14:35 gaal if you do that, please also s/\t/    /g -- i threw in a tab accidentally in the eval_ok line
14:36 stevan gaal: fixed
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14:50 stevan gaal++ # for yaml_harness.pl
14:53 ihb is foo(@bar) and foo([*@bar]) equivalent if foo has a signature of (@in)?
14:53 stevan ihb: I would think so
14:54 stevan foo(@bar) and foo(*@bar) are equivalent too (I think)
14:54 ihb not if foo has (@in), afaik.
14:54 stevan ihb: why do you say that
14:55 stevan foo(*@bar) would flatten @bar (which is probably not needed)
14:55 PerlJam stevan: foo(@bar) and foo(*@bar) can't be equivalent except in the presence of a slurpy array.
14:55 ihb wouldn't it have to be (*@in)?
14:55 stevan actually,.. you guys are right,..
14:55 * stevan is still working on his first coffee
14:56 ihb then i guess, if zip is (@a, @b), zip(@foo;@bar) would work just as well as zip(@foo, @bar), although i see no reason to use the semi-colon.
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14:57 ihb i may be very wrong, since i started reading the synposis about an hour ago.
14:58 stevan ihb: I question if that semicolon is not a typo
14:58 stevan you should email perl6 lang and ask for clarification
14:58 PerlJam indeed.
14:58 PerlJam I think the ; is left over from the original zip proposal
14:58 stevan even if it is not a typo, it is not clear
14:58 ihb the semi-colon is used again in zip(@a;@b;@c) right blow in S04.
14:59 ihb ok, left-over seems reasonable.
14:59 ihb how was the original zip proposal?
15:01 PerlJam The original (IIRC) had zip flatten it's args so that zip(@a,@b;@c,@d)  was the same as if you'd done @x = (*@a,*@b); @y = (*@c,*@d);  zip(@x;@y)  or some such.
15:02 PerlJam ; was just playing the role of a super-comma
15:02 PerlJam But that's all changed now that ; is an anon-array constructor.
15:02 PerlJam Hmm.  so maybe those zips are correct with the new semantics ...
15:03 ihb PerlJam: yeah, that's what i was saying above :-)
15:06 PerlJam well, then zip(@a;@b;@c) is the same as  zip <== [@a],[@b],[@c]  right?
15:06 PerlJam Does [@a] flatten @a or not?
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15:07 autrijus hi.
15:07 autrijus revelations:
15:07 ihb afaik, [@a] lazily flattens @a, but i not sure at all.
15:07 autrijus 1. Pugs now has a compile-to-PIR interface.
15:08 autrijus 2. My next commit will have embedded parrot to be built optionally.
15:08 autrijus 3. pugscc --parrot -e "say 'Hello'" already works; with the embedded parrot, pugs --parrot will too.
15:09 autrijus 4. Embedded Perl5 and Ponie will also be probed and built optionally so you can call out to arbitary perl5 modules.
15:09 autrijus 5. all these will be demonstrated this weekend in YAPC::Taipei.
15:09 pjcj autrijus++ # again
15:09 PerlJam autrijus: I can not ++ you enough  :-)
15:09 PerlJam autrijus++
15:09 PerlJam autrijus++
15:09 PerlJam autrijus++
15:10 autrijus oh and compile mandel.p6 to mandel.pir
15:10 autrijus even with all the two compiling overheads
15:10 autrijus all taken together, is still 3x faster than perl5.
15:10 autrijus (+ run time that is)
15:10 rgs autrijus++ # !!
15:10 ihb autrijus++ indeed
15:10 clkao autrijus is crazy
15:11 autrijus I need to change the pugscode.org slogan from "Run Perl6 Now" to "Compile Perl6 Now" ;)
15:11 PerlJam clkao: crazy like a ... like a ... yeah, he's just crazy  ;)
15:12 PerlJam r1007 looks broken from here.  I'm sure your commit will fix that :)
15:12 theorbtwo autrijus++
15:12 clkao he made it!
15:13 jabbot pugs - 1007 - * Pugs now compiles to PIR.
15:14 autrijus PerlJam: broken how?
15:15 PerlJam Chasing modules from: src/Main.hs
15:15 PerlJam src/Main.hs:
15:15 PerlJam    Can't find module `Run'
15:15 autrijus err. forgetting an svk add.
15:15 autrijus committed back.
15:15 PerlJam that's on a fresh co, then perl Makefile.PL; make
15:16 PerlJam ah, r1008 es muy bueno
15:16 autrijus try
15:16 autrijus pugscc --haskell -e "say 'Hello'"
15:16 autrijus and
15:17 autrijus pugscc --parrot -e "say 'Hello'"
15:17 PerlJam btw (fast computers)++
15:17 PerlJam oh no, it died again
15:17 PerlJam src/Compile/Haskell.hs:10:
15:17 PerlJam    Couldn't match `Language.Haskell.THSyntax.Exp' against `[Dec]'
15:17 PerlJam        Expected type: Language.Haskell.THSyntax.Exp
15:17 PerlJam        Inferred type: [Dec]
15:18 autrijus 6.2.2 right.
15:18 autrijus ok, I need to test 6.2.2.
15:18 autrijus a sec.
15:18 PerlJam yeah, 6.2.2
15:18 autrijus ok, fixing.
15:18 autrijus --parrot is fine though?
15:18 theorbtwo That's on a normal "make".
15:19 autrijus !.
15:19 autrijus ok, fixing
15:23 ihb what has happened with S07 and S08?
15:25 elmex has joined #perl6
15:25 autrijus hm?
15:25 autrijus 6.2.2 should build again. pugscc --haskell is still bad though.
15:27 theorbtwo Yep, seems to make OK.
15:28 Odin-LAP Hmm. Has pugs taken perl6 over? :>
15:28 PerlJam Odin-LAP: effectively.
15:29 Odin-LAP PerlJam: That's what matters, right? :p
15:29 PerlJam (as far as implementation goes that is)
15:29 Odin-LAP Yeah, that's what I mean.
15:30 PerlJam All that matters is that we get a working perl6 compiler at some point that doesn't involve Larry and Damian and chromatic and Luke and Dan and ...  etc as a collective wetware processor :)
15:30 autrijus lol.
15:31 PerlJam autrijus: er, where does pugscc appear?  I just have a pugs binary after make
15:31 PerlJam oh, script
15:31 autrijus install and you'll see.
15:32 PerlJam very very very cool
15:33 clkao autrijus: you will have to drink lots of beer on friday
15:33 autrijus mmm?
15:33 jabbot pugs - 1009 - * fix prototype
15:33 jabbot pugs - 1008 - * Run.hs.
15:34 pasteling "malaire" at 217.119.39.217 pasted "C< pugscc --parrot examples/mandel.p6 > not working" (6 lines, 195B) at http://sial.org/pbot/8495
15:34 PerlJam autrijus: you need to put together a wishlist of things you'd like so that we geeks can rally together and get you something.
15:34 PerlJam heh, "Please file a bug report."
15:34 autrijus malaire: it's not supposed to be working. :)
15:35 autrijus the only thing that works is say 'Hi'.
15:35 malaire ok..
15:35 autrijus I'm porting over my yesterday's mandel compiler to this new framework
15:35 autrijus as we speak.
15:35 autrijus should be done soon
15:35 autrijus but I need to get Inline.hs written first.
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15:43 autrijus I'll probably call it Embed.hs
15:43 autrijus it's too hard to find a poem for Inline.hs.
15:55 autrijus module Embed where
15:55 autrijus import Embed.Parrot
15:55 autrijus import Embed.Perl5
15:55 autrijus import Embed.Ponie
15:55 autrijus import Embed.Haskell
15:56 autrijus I think those four are enough for now. anyone has anything else to declare? :)
15:56 stevan autrijus: do I need to install parrot for this to work?
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15:57 autrijus stevan: you need to install ponie for ponie to work and parrot for parrot to work.
15:57 autrijus (obviously.)
15:57 stevan cool
15:58 autrijus Embed.Haskell needs hs-plugins to work.
15:58 autrijus Embed.Perl5 always works.
15:58 kungfuftr Embed.MagicVoodoo?
15:58 stevan I think maybe we need a pugscc readme soon
15:58 lightstep is pugs as fast as perl now?
15:58 autrijus lightstep: pugscc on parrot will be faster than perl.
15:59 lightstep whee
15:59 PerlJam "as fast as perl now"?  you mean perl6?  pugs is *faster* than perl6 now.
15:59 PerlJam :-)
15:59 autrijus lightstep: pugscc via GHC is just a bit slower than perl5.
15:59 autrijus the goal is to have a
15:59 kungfuftr autrijus: do you reckon that using pugs might make hacking on parrot easier?
15:59 autrijus kungfuftr: definitely.
15:59 kungfuftr autrijus: gd, gd, will let my housemate know
15:59 autrijus kungfuftr: building a parrot AST is the same process as nnunley's Pretty.hs
16:00 autrijus kungfuftr: you just write a pretty printer for Exps
16:00 autrijus that happens to produce valid parrot assembly
16:00 autrijus using the very robust HughesPJ pretty printing library that comes with GHC.
16:00 lightstep except Exp is more general than the perl6 syntax
16:01 lightstep (but perhaps PIR is as general)
16:01 autrijus lightstep: sure, the idea is for Exp to one day become Parrot AST as well.
16:01 autrijus PIR is as general.
16:01 autrijus because you can define arbitary PIR objects.
16:01 autrijus in C or PIR.
16:02 lightstep btw, pugscc -H totally fails
16:02 autrijus on 6.2.2?
16:02 autrijus yeah.
16:02 lightstep unrecognized construct on a Statements block (the top level of the ast)
16:02 autrijus it needs 6.4 currently.
16:02 autrijus will fix, not yet.
16:02 lightstep (i'm on 6.4)
16:02 autrijus and yes, it only recognize "say 'foo'".
16:02 autrijus we're basically back to Day 1 of Pugs.
16:02 lightstep oh
16:02 autrijus I'm porting the mandel compiler to this new framework.
16:02 skypp__ has joined #perl6
16:03 autrijus it will happen very soon, please have patience :)
16:03 autrijus (or just hack away at Haskell.hs)
16:03 stevan autrijus: any thoughts on how to test this embedded stuff?
16:03 autrijus stevan: yes, by having a pugscc --run
16:03 autrijus and use it as harness.
16:04 autrijus make test-haskell
16:04 autrijus make test-pugs
16:04 autrijus make test-parrot
16:04 autrijus something like that.
16:04 autrijus same test suite.
16:04 autrijus will be trivial to set up I think.
16:04 stevan ok I will look into it
16:04 autrijus btw, t/README is wonderful.
16:04 stevan autrijus: thanks
16:05 autrijus I only plan to do this Compile/Embed thing to a point that
16:05 autrijus 1)mandel runs
16:05 larsen has joined #perl6
16:05 autrijus 2)well behaving enough that other hackers can work on it
16:05 autrijus then I'm back fixing 6.2 blockers.
16:08 * f0rth unable to understand "We have a created a basic Test " in t/README
16:09 Odin-LAP Hm. There's no TODO list for Pugs?
16:09 autrijus Odin-LAP: http://www.nntp.perl.org/gr​oup/perl.perl6.compiler/417
16:11 Odin-LAP Hmm.
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16:13 jabbot pugs - 1010 - fix line lengths in t/README
16:13 lightstep afk (taking my sister to an infoshop)
16:16 theorbtwo Blast, there's no poem about Bard the Bowman in the Hobbit.
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16:33 jabbot pugs - 1011 - * More pugscc work: --runparrot, -rP, --
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16:37 autrijus anyone knows how am I supposed to eval perl5 code in perl6?
16:37 autrijus I know that require/do/use will proc perl5 code automagically.
16:37 autrijus but that's all file-based.
16:37 autrijus eval :perl5 maybe?
16:37 autrijus eval5?
16:37 autrijus eval_perl5?
16:38 clkao autrijus:
16:38 clkao i can't do pugscc --parrot -e 'say "foo " ~ "Hello"'
16:38 autrijus clkao: you can't because it's not there.
16:39 clkao what's there then ;_)
16:39 autrijus just say() and single quoted strings
16:39 autrijus what do you expect from 1hr hack? :)
16:39 autrijus feel free to hack on src/Compile/Parrot.hs
16:39 PerlJam autrijus: What would be the difference between Compile/Pugs.hs and Compile/Perl6.hs?
16:40 clkao ah ok. :)
16:40 autrijus Compile/Pugs.hs uses the Pugs evaluator to process Pugs opcodes
16:40 autrijus Compile/Perl6.hs spits back perl6 source code.
16:40 autrijus see B::Bytecode and B::Deparse.
16:40 PerlJam gotcha
16:42 hcchien lots of test failed in the trunk.
16:42 autrijus eval:perl5 "use RT;"
16:42 autrijus I'll go with that.
16:42 autrijus hcchien: see /topic!
16:43 hcchien err...., interesting topic. :p
16:48 stevan autrijus: what did the Haskell backend require? hs-plugins?
16:48 autrijus stevan: nono, Embed.Haskell does that.
16:48 autrijus Compile.Haskell only wants template haskell
16:48 autrijus which works with GHc 6.4 on all popular platforms.
16:48 autrijus I need to fix 6.2.2.
16:49 autrijus (TH is part of GHC)
16:49 stevan so pugscc --haskell requires nothing special?
16:50 autrijus yeah.
16:50 autrijus it needs GHC
16:50 stevan ok
16:50 autrijus and a pugs build dir
16:50 autrijus but nothing else.
16:50 stevan 6.4 or 6.2.2
16:50 stevan or both
16:50 autrijus theoretically both
16:50 autrijus but I don't have 6.2 right now
16:50 autrijus so at this second only 6.4 works
16:50 stevan ok
16:50 autrijus nothing stops 6.2 from working though.
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17:01 iblech Hi, just posted a Perl6-solution on Perlmonks (http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=441359) and noticed "ceil" not being implemented. -- Patch with tests here: http://sial.org/pbot/8499
17:02 zuulvin_ has joined #perl6
17:02 autrijus is ceil a perl6 builtin?
17:02 autrijus it is not in perl5, so just checking
17:03 autrijus sub ceil { my $n = shift; int($n) + ($n > int($n) ? 1 : 0); }
17:03 autrijus or really
17:03 autrijus sub ceil ($n) { int($n) + ($n > int($n) ?? 1 :: 0); }
17:03 iblech I remember reading something about ceil (and floor) being in the core, but might be wrong of course
17:04 stevan iblech: check in the Synopsis
17:04 autrijus may I have your email so I can make you a committer?
17:04 iblech [email@hidden.address]
17:04 iblech stevan: Will do, sec.
17:04 autrijus and if you feel ceil() should be in, please ask on p6c/p6l :)
17:05 iblech stevan: It's not in any of the Synopsis, will ask p6l
17:05 autrijus iblech: welcome aboard! please add yourself to AUTHORS to save theorbtwo's workload
17:06 iblech autrijus: Thanks! :)
17:06 metaperl_ has joined #perl6
17:06 autrijus :)
17:06 metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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17:07 stevan autrijus: r1012 I added a pugscc.README, much like the t/README
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17:08 stevan autrijus: it still needs some work, but it will keep you from needing to answer the same questions over and over :)
17:11 autrijus !
17:11 autrijus stevan++
17:11 autrijus stevan++
17:11 autrijus however...
17:11 autrijus can we have it in a =pod =cut thing? :)
17:11 autrijus inside pugscc itself.
17:11 autrijus as it's a perl5 script right now, just slap =pod on it
17:13 stevan autrijus: even better
17:13 jabbot pugs - 1012 - adding pugscc.README; adding banner to t
17:16 theorbtwo I'm confused by the BACKENDS bit in pugscc.README... how does a perl5 backend let you run perl5 code in pugs -- wouldn't it let you run perl6 code in perl5?
17:17 PerlJam has joined #perl6
17:17 stevan theorbtwo: I freely admit I don't know what I am talking about in there :)
17:17 stevan theorbtwo: I am just trying to compile info from the past hour on IRC
17:17 theorbtwo OK.
17:17 theorbtwo You should put command-line info in there.  Or better, both there and --help.
17:18 stevan theorbtwo: I am putting the readme into a pod doc at the bottom of the script
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17:18 stevan theorbtwo: once I commit it back, feel free to add all you want ;)
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17:23 theorbtwo Er, sorry, already submitted a one-liner to make pugscc --help work.
17:23 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
17:23 theorbtwo It probably won't conflict with what you're doing.
17:23 jabbot pugs - 1013 - Make pugscc --help work.
17:26 stevan theorbtwo: it didnt
17:26 stevan theorbtwo: I just commited the POD doc
17:27 stevan theorbtwo: please read it over as a sanity check, and feel free to fix my misunderstandings
17:27 * stevan has to get on a conf call ($work always gets in the way of $fun)
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17:29 ninereasons isn't the $ sigil supposed to assure that $s is a string (or ref)?
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17:30 integral or a number...
17:30 ninereasons my @a = <1 2 3 4> ; my $s = @a; for $s { say $_ };
17:30 ninereasons prints for each.
17:30 ninereasons is that a bug?
17:30 stevan no
17:31 stevan ninereasons: dereferncing is supposed to be automagic in perl6
17:31 iblech ninereasons: If you want the number of elements of @a, try my $s = +@a
17:31 theorbtwo stevan, it looks sane to me.  I really don't know what's going on.
17:31 ninereasons Interesting
17:31 stevan theorbtwo: maybe its not sane, and you are insane, like all of us :)
17:32 stevan ninereasons: the + is actually forcing numeric context
17:32 integral hmm, I'd have expect a reference to be printed...
17:32 * integral afk
17:32 ninereasons $s.perl; # '(\'1\', \'2\', \'3\', \'4\')'
17:33 jabbot pugs - 1014 - removing pugscc.README and placing it as
17:33 autrijus we are getting an eval_perl5() now.
17:34 autrijus it will be eval:perl5 once I get adverbial paris parsed.
17:34 autrijus pairs, even.
17:34 ninereasons stevan: I see how +@a works.  thank you.
17:35 ninereasons and iblech, thanks.
17:35 stevan ninereasons: there are actually many cool context forcing operators, see t/syntax/force_context.t
17:36 ninereasons perl6 is going to very max dwimy !
17:36 pdcawley has left "Leaving"
17:36 ninereasons be
17:36 iblech Is it intended that all t/*/*/*.t (note: three "*"s) are skipped?
17:37 autrijus yes.
17:37 autrijus need to hand-add them
17:37 Odin-LAP Perl6 is also going to be frighteningly malleable.
17:37 autrijus if you want them to run.
17:37 stevan ninereasons: but with the option of control as well (which control freaks like me enjoy)
17:38 iblech autrijus: Ah, ok
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17:39 autrijus eval_perl5() landed.
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17:39 autrijus will do type conversions later.
17:43 chip don't mean to tease, but sub foo ( +$x, *%rest ) works now too
17:43 metaperl has joined #perl6
17:43 autrijus :))))
17:43 autrijus nice!
17:44 stevan autrijus: hate too be a pain, but any timeline on s/// reg-exp support?
17:44 chip Does anybody have a better name for Perl6::Subs?  It's an OK name, but it leads to one of the internal classes being Perl6::Subs::Sub
17:44 chip which is awkward
17:44 stevan chip: does it go just subs? or methods, and blocks too?
17:44 chip autrijus: is C<is required> the current state of the art for required named params?
17:45 lucs What else have you got at the same level as ...::Sub
17:45 jabbot pugs - 1016 - t/unspecced/chomp.t now tests for not re
17:45 jabbot pugs - 1015 - * eval_perl5()
17:45 chip stevan: It does methods too.  C<method foo {}> becomes C< sub foo : method { my $self = shift; ... }>
17:45 chip stevan: but no blocks
17:45 chip lucs: ::Type ::Param and ::Sub
17:45 stevan chip: pointy subs?
17:46 chip stevan: oh, yeah.  Pointy subs.
17:46 lucs Hmm... No obvious good name.
17:46 stevan chip: very nice :)
17:46 chip Jeepers, next you're gonna make me support $^a
17:46 Khisanth autrijus: eval :perl5 looked better :)
17:46 chip No, I mean I don't support pointies, I'd forgot about them
17:46 chip But I have to stop adding features and start reorganizing and documenting now.  Dammit
17:46 chip If I don't CPANize I can't ask for release permission
17:47 pasteling "malaire" at 217.119.39.217 pasted "build error with r1016" (54 lines, 4.4K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8502
17:47 autrijus Khisanth: patches welcome, really :)
17:47 autrijus malaire: fixing.
17:48 Khisanth oh I thought that was some official thing :)
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17:58 iblech r1016, GHC 6.2: src/Embed/Perl5.hs:32: Variable not in scope: `withArrayLen'
18:00 autrijus malaire: are you on GHC 6.2?
18:02 malaire no, 6.4
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18:16 autrijus ok, try again.
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18:20 pasteling "iblech" at 80.81.8.28 pasted "Build failure with GHC 6.2" (12 lines, 379B) at http://sial.org/pbot/8503
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18:22 * iblech food &
18:23 jabbot pugs - 1017 - * only enable PUGS_EMBED=perl5 condition
18:25 crysflame pointy subs?
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18:28 autrijus iblech: try again
18:28 PerlJam has quit IRC ("*poof*")
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18:31 malaire building works for me now (without perl5 embedding)
18:33 autrijus good.
18:33 autrijus EMBED needs more work with ExtUtils::Embed.
18:33 autrijus I have done it all once with PAR
18:33 autrijus so it can be made to work. just not tonight :)
18:33 autrijus (but it worksforme, oddly.)
18:33 jabbot pugs - 1018 - * mistyped.
18:34 iblech autrijus: Works now :)
18:35 malaire anyway, I'm more interested to get mandel.p6 to pir working, than to play with perl5
18:35 autrijus sure.
18:36 clkao interesting
18:36 clkao ./pugs
18:36 clkao /libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libperl.so" not found, required by "pugs"
18:37 theorbtwo ldd `which perl`
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18:40 clkao it points to the right sitelib directory, of course.
18:40 autrijus do you have a libperl.so?
18:40 clkao sure.
18:41 autrijus LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
18:41 clkao or how do i run svk?
18:41 wolverian do method calls interpolate in strings today?
18:41 clkao it's all normal. this newly built pugs just suddenly fails that way.
18:41 clkao because we weren't linking libperl before i guess?
18:42 malaire yep, I get error on libperl.so also, when trying to run new pugs
18:42 autrijus !.
18:43 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
18:43 autrijus try again.
18:43 jabbot pugs - 1019 - * do not -lperl in vain.
18:43 autrijus r1020.
18:44 metaperl_ has joined #perl6
18:45 autrijus works?
18:46 malaire still compiling...
18:47 malaire yes, works now
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18:52 malaire hmm.. "make test" seems to be broken - it doesn't run tests in subdirs like t/builtins/{hash,io,list,strings}/*.t
18:53 jabbot pugs - 1020 - * oops.
18:54 tiw has left
18:54 autrijus malaire: right. add them to Makefile.PL?
18:55 malaire but there are some tests which should be skipped (e.g. t/rules/disabled/rules.t) - so what should be skipped and what not?
18:57 autrijus maybe mv disabled to Disabled
18:57 autrijus and skip those that are upper cased?
18:57 autrijus (just a random thought)
18:57 iblech malaire: How about (Makefile.PL, line 28) test => { TESTS => join ' ', grep { !/disabled/ } "t/*.t", "t/*/*.t", "t/*/*/*.t" },
18:57 autrijus that works too, except you need to !/Dialects/
19:00 * autrijus still working with #parrot.
19:01 * theorbtwo wonders what network that is.
19:01 autrijus irc.perl.org.
19:01 autrijus current topic:
19:01 autrijus hey, this parrot thing is actually saner than I hoped. -- Autrijus
19:02 metaperl lol
19:02 iblech Right. Then mv disabled Disabled and grep { !/^[A-Z] } ... -- will do
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19:06 malaire that grep-trick isn't working.. when running "make test", the harness-command is C< test_harness(0, 'inc', 'blib/lib', 'blib/arch')" t/*.t t/*/*.t t/*/*/*.t >, and that grep(...) from Makefile.PL is nowhere
19:07 clkao is it intended for 'make' always trying to relink the binary?
19:07 _metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:07 clkao or my timestamp is fubared?
19:09 malaire err, anyway, it's not working and Dialects & disabled tests are run (I really don't know much about Makefile.PL)
19:09 iblech malaire: see line 64 of inc/Module/Install/Pugs.pm -- will fix
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19:12 mj P1018 - MSYS-MinGW build - 81/2449 subtests failed
19:14 vladtz P1020 build fails in Compile.Haskell
19:15 autrijus vladtz: fails how?
19:16 vladtz Itś a long error for the Haskeel code, where do I paste it?
19:16 malaire perlbot: nopaste
19:16 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
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19:17 pasteling "vladtz" at 80.127.84.50 pasted "Compiling Compile.Haskell ( sr" (32 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8505
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19:21 autrijus vladtz: you are using a stage1 compiler.
19:21 autrijus vladtz: that should not happen. what kind of GHC are you using?
19:22 iblech With the t/*/*/*.t tests, there're now 100/2808 test failures on Linux, GHC 6.2
19:22 autrijus update topic.
19:22 * autrijus is journaling
19:23 autrijus thanks :)
19:23 jabbot pugs - 1022 - Actually checking the tests of t/*/*/*.t
19:23 jabbot pugs - 1021 - Minor POD nit fixed.
19:23 pasteling "mj" at 147.229.221.107 pasted "build failed - 1020, nmake, ActivePerl 5.8.4, GHC 6.4" (36 lines, 2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8506
19:24 iblech changes topic to: 100 subtests fail | pugscode.org <<Overview Journal>> | pugs.kwiki.org | logged: http://xrl.us/e98m
19:24 vladtz I am usign 6.4 from the Fedora page, Iĺl see if they have an update.
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19:26 autrijus mj: win xp?
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19:28 iblech mj: IIRC, 81 subtests failed for me, too, before we were checking *all* tests
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19:44 autrijus mj: I've fixed your building problem
19:44 autrijus try again?
19:53 jabbot pugs - 1023 - * fix build error on win32 by not -lperl
19:55 autrijus we are on revision 1k now! :)
20:02 lumi_ has joined #perl6
20:03 lumi_ Hi
20:03 theorbtwo Hi, lum-i.
20:03 jabbot pugs - 1024 - * typo
20:04 lumi_ r2**10!
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20:07 autrijus yup!
20:07 chip "At the Christian Guardians, we believe that astrology is much like most other things.  Just as there is good and bad in almost everything else, there is bad astrology and there is good astrology.
20:07 chip ww
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20:08 mj Pugs 1023  - WinXP, GHC 6.4, ActivePerl 5.8.4 - 100/2808 subtests failed, 96.44% okay.
20:08 metaperl has joined #perl6
20:09 autrijus good.
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20:12 lightstep very strange parse error on t/builtins/goto.t
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20:15 gaal hello!
20:15 wolverian should method calls interpolate in strings? I think not outside {}s
20:15 lightstep perhaps missing or extra semicolons cause trouble
20:15 wolverian just looking at this test and it looked odd.
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20:17 lightstep and t/pugsbugs/die_and_end.t has 200% failures, but that's to be expected
20:17 lightstep has quit IRC ("leaving")
20:17 mj nmake isntall
20:17 mj dir c:\perl\bin\pugs*
20:17 mj 4,2 MB pugs.exe.bat
20:17 mj how to remove $(FIXIN) $(INST_SCRIPT)\pugs.exe from Makefile ?
20:17 wolverian ah, they do, but only with parentheses.
20:18 autrijus mj: I don't think it does anything.
20:18 autrijus except that pugs.exe.bat may take some disk space.
20:18 wolverian I guess t/oo/meta_class.t might be wrong, then. (although I guess it's not exactly finished either :)
20:23 jabbot pugs - 1026 - * same fix for runHaskell on win32
20:23 jabbot pugs - 1025 - * win32 hates exec()
20:24 wolverian t/syntax/string_parsing.t might be wrong also, as it doesn't have ()s either. (I'm not sure if it is testing whether the call IS parsed or not)
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20:41 Limbic_Region autrijus - out of curiosity, how has hanging out in #parrot been?
20:43 autrijus very nice.
20:43 autrijus folks there are very helpful.
20:43 autrijus Dan is back :)
20:44 autrijus posted today's journal to p6c, p6i and p6l.
20:44 autrijus now I sleep. have fun!
20:44 bluefeet night autrijus
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20:44 metaperl_ is now known as metaperl
20:44 theorbtwo G'night, autrijus.
20:45 bluefeet hi metaperl
20:45 autrijus I wonder if I should cross post to perlmonks :)
20:45 autrijus but, too tired to do that. if people want to help, feel free.
20:45 metaperl hi bluefeet
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21:11 autrijus g'nite! &
21:11 vladtz bye
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21:33 jabbot pugs - 1027 - * pugscc --haskell now works for GHC 6.2
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21:53 jabbot pugs - 1028 - I found a bug with single quote strings
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22:33 jabbot pugs - 1030 - more work on the perl6 FileSpec module,
22:33 jabbot pugs - 1029 - adding more lines to the synoposis based
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