Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-03-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 kungfuftr moo?
00:07 jabbot pugs - 1118 - Ported CGI::Lite 2.02 (complete with doc
00:09 nmcfarl has quit IRC ("nmcfarl has no reason")
00:13 kolibrie has joined #perl6
00:20 kolibrie using the darcs repository, I'm getting ghc errors (which I don't see with the svn repository)
00:20 kolibrie my eyes don't tell me what is wrong
00:20 kolibrie /usr/bin/ghc --make -H200m -L. -Lsrc -Lsrc/pcre -I. -Isrc -Isrc/pcre  -i. -isrc -isrc/pcre -static  -Wall  -fno-warn-missing-signatures -fno-warn-name-shadowing  -o pugs src/Main.hs src/pcre/pcre.o src/UnicodeC.o
00:20 kolibrie Chasing modules from: src/Main.hs
00:20 kolibrie src/Main.hs:
00:20 kolibrie    Can't find module `Compile'
00:21 kolibrie anyone have insights as to what that means?
00:21 Alias_ So regular expressions work yet?
00:23 kolibrie I'm pretty sure perl5 rx works
00:23 kolibrie no perl6 rules yet
00:25 * Alias_ wonders whether it's worth porting Config::Tiny to provide basic .ini-style config files
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00:30 pjcj looks lilek iblech already did it
00:33 pjcj I'd guess the darcs repo didn't sync properly with the main svn repo.  That's one for autrijus I suppose.
00:33 DrHyde has quit IRC (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
00:34 kolibrie when abouts is he active again?
00:34 pjcj three or four hours, I'd guess
00:35 Alias_ It's about 8:30am Taipai time?
00:39 kolibrie yep, that's what the Internet says
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01:08 stevan Alias_: we have basic regexp matches with rx:perl5{}
01:09 stevan and we have subst regexp s:perl5{}{}
01:09 stevan and optional g fla
01:09 stevan g
01:09 Alias_ Take a look at http://search.cpan.org/src/ADAMK/Config-Tiny-2.01/lib/Config/Tiny.pm
01:09 stevan s:perl5:g{}{}
01:09 Alias_ Tell me if you think current regex can support that
01:09 Alias_ in the method read_string
01:10 stevan Alias_: iblech has already ported Config::Tiny
01:10 Alias_ he did?
01:10 * Alias_ didn't quite get what pjcj meant earlier
01:10 stevan http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/modules/Config-Tiny/
01:10 Alias_ updating my svn now
01:10 stevan of course it does not work yet
01:10 stevan because we dont have OO yet
01:10 Alias_ :)
01:11 Alias_ Not to mention that Config::Tiny works a bit unusually...
01:11 Alias_ in that it is used like both an object and a hash
01:11 stevan the only part of read_string that we could not support is the split with the regexp
01:12 kolibrie welcome back from dinner, stevan
01:12 stevan looks like iblech has implemented the hash part as a rw class attribute
01:12 kungfuftr you can do split with pure regex though
01:13 stevan kolibrie: thanks :), my belly is quite full
01:13 Alias_ wow, lots of new code since I last updated
01:13 stevan Alias_: yes, iblech is our current mad-porter
01:13 Alias_ oh dear... MIME::Lite?
01:13 stevan he is responsible for most of whats in modules now
01:13 Alias_ The horror!
01:13 Alias_ :)
01:14 stevan Alias_: you want to see horror ...
01:14 stevan http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/ext/FileSpec/
01:14 Alias_ ah, he's doing Email::Simple at least
01:14 stevan a (mostly) working File::Spec
01:14 Alias_ so ext is "new Perl6-specific modules"?
01:14 Alias_ and modules is "P5 modules ported to P6"\
01:14 stevan Alias_: ext/ is working perl6/pugs stuff (can be haskell too)
01:15 stevan yes
01:15 stevan what is in modules will eventually serve a pseudo integration tests for pugs
01:15 kungfuftr is anyone working on rules engine stuff? or is it being left until someone else with more of an idea works on it?
01:15 kolibrie stevan: I saw you were talking with autrijus about ghc 6.4 and inlining
01:15 stevan because they will be modules with test suites
01:15 kolibrie are there examples of that?
01:15 Alias_ stevan: Gotcha
01:15 stevan kolibrie: talking about 6.4,.. not inlining
01:16 kolibrie oh
01:16 stevan kungfuftr: right now it's PCRE, I have no idea about future plans
01:16 stevan kolibrie: what are you looking for? I may be able to point you there
01:17 kungfuftr stevan: yar, i think only larry and damian actually understand the concept of the new rules system
01:17 kungfuftr =0)
01:17 kolibrie I'd really like to wrap up the cairo library
01:17 stevan kungfuftr: I think you are right
01:17 stevan cairo is haskell?
01:17 * kungfuftr thought cairo was svg engine
01:18 theorbtwo I think the idea is that perl6 rules will be implemented by integrating with the PGRE stuff that the p6 compiler pumpking was doing.
01:18 kolibrie no cairo is C
01:18 kolibrie it's a low-level drawing engine
01:18 kolibrie http://www.cairographics.org
01:18 stevan kolibrie: I think autrijus was using the haskell FFI to wrap PCRE (which is C)
01:19 stevan IIRC he liked it (the Haskell FFI)
01:19 kolibrie I wanted to write a wrapper in perl5, but I got lost in XS
01:19 stevan kolibrie: at this point you will need to write a Haskell warpper
01:20 kolibrie there is a haskell port already, I believe
01:20 stevan kolibrie: then you are half way there :)
01:20 kolibrie might have to learn haskell?
01:22 kolibrie has @larry written anything about binding libraries from other languages?
01:22 stevan nothing I have seen, I expect that is to be done in Parrot though
01:22 Alias_ parrot people are just starting on the structures for loading modules from multiple languages now (IIRC)
01:23 kolibrie ok
01:23 Alias_ multiply dimensional namespaces, or some such
01:23 Alias_ [ language, lang-namespace, version ] or something
01:23 Alias_ I only saw it in passing
01:24 kolibrie The haskell bindings are avilable via darcs: darcs get http://ofb.net/~abe/darcs/cairo
01:31 kolibrie bbiab
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02:00 stevan anyone know the Win32 equivalent of 'pwd'?
02:00 Alias_ 'cd' (no args)
02:00 Alias_ ?
02:01 stevan I am looking to do something equivalent to Cwd?
02:01 stevan for File::Spec
02:01 stevan the Win32 one
02:01 kolibrie been a long time since I used win32
02:01 stevan me too
02:03 ninereasons Alias_ has it.
02:03 Alias_ stevan: try just calling cd without any arguments
02:03 stevan so system("cd") will work
02:03 ninereasons ysp
02:03 Alias_ trim off trailing $stuff
02:03 stevan ok, I have no windows box to test, so I will have to wing it
02:03 kolibrie how scary - just seems like you'd go /home
02:05 Alias_ stevan: chomp($cwd = (`cd`)[0]);
02:06 Alias_ WORKSFORME
02:06 stevan cool
02:06 Alias_ it isn't quoted though
02:07 Alias_ just raw
02:07 Alias_ quoted/escaped
02:08 kungfuftr stevan: `chdir` is the win32 command
02:09 kungfuftr C:\Documents and Settings\Scott>chdir
02:09 kungfuftr C:\Documents and Settings\Scott
02:09 kungfuftr =0)
02:09 ninereasons equivalent to cd
02:09 theorbtwo chdir and cd are synonymous.
02:09 kungfuftr ah
02:09 Alias_ chdir returns nothing for me
02:10 Alias_ oh wait
02:10 Alias_ (was in perl shell at the time)
02:10 ninereasons heh
02:19 ninereasons it's very nice having the -I switch.  I never use it with perl, but it's sure handy for playing with pugs
02:21 Alias_ I've only ever used it for screwing around with test scripts for other people's modules
02:25 ninereasons do other people have a problem building with Embedded Perl5?
02:27 kolibrie haven't tried it
02:27 luqui has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
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02:31 pasteling "ninereasons" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "r1118: build fails when using Embed" (29 lines, 2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8599
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02:47 jabbot pugs - 1120 - more work on File::Spec::Win32; I need s
02:47 jabbot pugs - 1119 - re-adding the bug from a few days ago wh
02:49 Khisanth adding bugs?
02:50 kolibrie has quit IRC ("leaving")
02:53 stevan :)
02:53 stevan readding bug report
02:53 stevan its getting late
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03:07 autrijus greetings lambdacamels!
03:08 Alias_ hail phearless leader
03:08 * Alias_ was pleased to see that Config::Tiny got ported without him even knowing
03:08 autrijus the mad porter scares me :)
03:09 Alias_ Config::Tiny is probably quite a nice little regexp test
03:09 autrijus aye
03:09 Alias_ at least for most of the basics
03:09 autrijus I want PGE :-/
03:09 Alias_ PGE?
03:09 autrijus the perl6 rules parser and compiler thing.
03:09 Alias_ ah
03:10 autrijus pmichaud was saying last week that he is devoting the week to that
03:10 autrijus and should show up with a working implementation... now or something
03:10 autrijus because of the way our ext/ works now, if PGE is there, it can be turned into Rule.pm in no time
03:10 autrijus and/or Rule.hs
03:16 theorbtwo Oh, good-morning, autrijus.
03:17 autrijus hey theorbtwo :)
03:26 ninereasons I see that there's still a lot of perl5 in many of the modules.  to be expected at this stage, I'm sure.
03:28 autrijus yes, pleas hack away.
03:28 autrijus I'll bbiab :)
03:37 ingy hola
03:45 kungfuftr moo
04:11 markstos has left
04:17 jabbot pugs - 1121 - * $*EXECUTABLE_NAME and $*PROG_NAME
04:22 pingzi has quit IRC ()
04:23 chip why not $*PROGRAM_NAME ?
04:24 chip or $*EXEC_NAME?
04:24 * chip anticipates "ask Larry"
04:24 kungfuftr moo
04:24 autrijus it's PROGRAM_NAME.
04:24 autrijus I typo'ed in my commit log.
04:24 autrijus I'm using perlvar.
04:25 chip OK.  not to complain, I thought everyone was zzz
04:25 autrijus nope, everyone just woke up :)
04:26 chip where are you in meatspace, anyway?
04:26 autrijus Taipei. YAPC::Taipei starts tomorrow, with me, obra, mugwump, acme, hcchien, clkao, ingy, miyagawa & go
04:26 autrijus s/go/co/
04:26 chip yowie
04:26 chip (teh intarweb)++
04:27 kungfuftr buggery... i'm going to be doing svn updates every 2 mins tomorrow
04:27 Alias_ autrijus: If you happen to encounter any bitching about lack of decent Perl jobs, you might casually mention for me that Sydney is currently in a decent Perl coder drought.
04:27 chip just don't get carried away and declare independence from the P6 cabal
04:28 Alias_ autrijus: There were 7 senior "real" Perl jobs posted to the main jobs site here in March so far... by far a record
04:28 kungfuftr Alias_: could do with some in oxford too
04:28 Alias_ So if anyone wants to move to Sydney for a while, it's a good time for it. They are mostly 3-6 month contracts
04:29 autrijus chip: er. but pugs was never part of cabal...
04:29 autrijus chip: although we maintain the "one perl6" policy firmly
04:29 * chip alerts Larry to trigger the invasion
04:29 * obra pondders the perl strait
04:29 * chip calls to cancel
04:29 autrijus it's one perl6, multiple teams
04:30 autrijus please be vague on this soverignty issue and don't pass anti-separate-compilation laws
04:30 autrijus otherwise we'll be forced to buy more weapon from the haskell camp!
04:30 * autrijus grins
04:31 kungfuftr autrijus: you now need inline BF!
04:31 Alias_ oh dear lord know... Human waves of first year university comp sci lecturers!
04:31 Alias_ s/know/no/
04:31 * theorbtwo is glad things aren't as bad as CNN was making them out to be a week or so ago.
04:32 * chip increases the Parrot budget
04:32 theorbtwo .oO(Parrot has a budget?)
04:33 mandarin is now known as Qiang
04:34 kungfuftr i thought parrot just had a budgie... and had a hidious offspring called pugs
04:34 * kungfuftr should really shutup when he's ill... make no sense at all
04:34 Odin-LAP Hm. Didn't the ROC government drop its claims to mainland China at some point?
04:34 autrijus yeah.
04:35 autrijus not the reverse, sadly
04:35 Odin-LAP Too bad, really. The duality was amusing. :D
04:35 * Odin-LAP doubts the PRC is ever going to give up.
04:36 Odin-LAP Too extensive bureaucracy. They'll never get all the forms filled out.
04:36 Alias_ China has always reformed as a single country. That is the way it has always been, for X thousand years... right?
04:37 mugwump sans all the invasions afaik :)
04:37 kungfuftr mugwump: hey sam mate
04:37 mugwump heya scott
04:38 kungfuftr mugwump: finally got there i see
04:39 theorbtwo China has always been one conuntry!  Even if everybody else thought Tibet was a different country until 1907 or so.
04:39 theorbtwo Er, 1950.
04:39 Odin-LAP Heh.
04:40 Odin-LAP The ROC also claimed Tibet, AFAIK.
04:40 theorbtwo Reading the wikipedia article, there's hardly a clean history.
04:40 Odin-LAP For China?
04:40 * kungfuftr claims ireland in his own name... since GB keep fucking it up
04:41 * Odin-LAP claims Russia, just for fun.
04:41 theorbtwo In 1907, Brittian, China, and Russia recognized Tibet as being part of China... but the Chinese didn't actually control it until 1959.
04:42 Odin-LAP theorbtwo: Yes. Note that the Tibetans didn't recognise that themselves. ;)
04:42 ninereasons has quit IRC ("Leaving")
04:42 theorbtwo Yes, well, my original specification was rather open -- "everybody else".
04:43 Odin-LAP True.
04:44 Odin-LAP But of course, the British are notorious for recognising things that are quite ... odd. Like granting Palestine to zionists in 1917. ;)
04:44 Odin-LAP (A promise they broke, admittedly.)
04:45 theorbtwo Well, the British had other things on their mind at the time.
04:45 * kungfuftr still has to find a way he can revoke his british citizenship
04:46 theorbtwo Why, kungfuftr?
04:47 Odin-LAP kungfuftr: Eh ... make sure that doesn't leave you with no citizenship.
04:47 kungfuftr theorbtwo: dual citizen... politics... much rather be irish
04:47 theorbtwo Ah, didn't relalize you were irish/british dual.
04:47 Odin-LAP Hm. Irish/British law prevent you from being both, then?
04:48 theorbtwo Since both are part of the EU, I'd imagine there's little benifit.
04:48 Qiang british is part of EU now ?
04:48 theorbtwo And always has been.
04:49 theorbtwo It's not part of the european monetary union, but is part of the EU.
04:49 Qiang heh. i thought they try to stay back and watch
04:49 Qiang oh. that's what i meant
04:49 theorbtwo For that matter, they every nearly became part of the EMU.
04:49 kungfuftr Odin-LAP: Anglo-Irish agreement says that by law i am both an irish and british citizen. as far as i'm aware it's the only exception to the rule
04:50 Odin-LAP kungfuftr: Huh. I see.
04:51 theorbtwo The british lobbied hard for a country-specific-use section on Euro paper currency, and got it -- then decided not to become a part of the EMU.
04:51 theorbtwo So should they ever do so, there's a nice spot on the bills for a picture of the Queen.
04:51 theorbtwo (Or King, should they take that long.)
04:52 * theorbtwo sighs... hey, I liked my #perl6 on-topic!
04:52 theorbtwo We should take this to #emacs.
04:52 autrijus :D
04:52 autrijus it's all chip's fault.
04:52 chip I heard that
04:53 * theorbtwo ponders -- take on a project, or go to bed.
04:53 autrijus both!
04:53 autrijus go to bed and hack there.
04:54 theorbtwo It's 6 AM, and I've been up since 1 yesterday; if I got to bed, I'm going to sleep.
04:54 autrijus sleep then.
04:55 theorbtwo (Yes, that's a somewhat short day; I'm like that.)
04:55 Odin-LAP theorbtwo: Or even #ideologies!
04:55 Qiang your brain shell won't rest on perl6 ;)
04:55 kungfuftr get back to work minions!
04:56 Alias_ Sleep is for the genetically inferior, NOW KEEP CODING!!!
04:57 theorbtwo G'night, people with names that need unicode to write correctly, and people that can't stop being british.
04:57 theorbtwo Oh, and Alias_.
04:57 kungfuftr caffeine glands... only $5... implanted for free
04:57 kungfuftr nn
04:57 Odin-LAP kungfuftr: I'd prefer amphetamine.
04:58 Odin-LAP kungfuftr: Fewer side-effects.
04:58 * Alias_ passes Odin the dex
04:58 kungfuftr hhhmmm... fresh out i'm afraid... mugwump bought the lot
04:58 * mugwump sniffs loudly
04:59 kungfuftr mugwump: so how are we my crack-fuelled perl monkey friend?
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04:59 Odin-LAP Alias_: I think I have a bit of methylphenidate left, actually.
04:59 Alias_ I'll stick to what's legal for me, thanks
04:59 mugwump mmm, good ... not even suffering any withdrawal !
04:59 mugwump Depends which law you look at, Alias
05:00 Alias_ $local
05:00 mugwump Given that the Magna Carta guarantees that the crown will never restrict traditional ways of life, I'd say that pretty much makes all plant ethenogens legal all over the empire
05:01 mugwump finding a lawyer with the balls to push that in court is another matter :)
05:01 Odin-LAP mugwump: Most of the Magna Carta is deprecated. :p
05:01 Alias_ except all new ones discovered since the MAgna Carta
05:01 * mugwump &  # travelling to clkao's place
05:02 Odin-LAP Eh. According to that, you could ban cocaine, but not chewing coca leaves.
05:02 Odin-LAP Which, according to what I've read, would be quite reasonable. ;)
05:12 autrijus stevan: asleep?
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05:59 autrijus stevan: your bug has been fixed
06:07 jabbot pugs - 1122 - * s:perl5:g with captureing vars now wor
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07:38 gaal theorbtwo, are you awake?
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07:57 jabbot pugs - 1123 - add diag() info from tests
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08:07 flw whoami
08:07 flw whois perl6
08:07 flw whois perl6
08:07 lightstep try / first
08:08 flw thank lightstep
08:16 kungfuftr changes topic to: 114/2907 subtests fail | pugscode.org <<Overview Journal>> | pugs.kwiki.org | logged: http://xrl.us/e98m
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08:24 lightstep is there a reason to use fromMVal of readMVal instead of fromVal?
08:27 jabbot pugs - 1124 - fix number of tests in t/builtins/grep.t
08:31 lightstep and should @list.join($str) work, or should it be $str.join(@list) ?
08:32 Corion The topic is wrong - on Win2k, I get 110/2913 subtests failed as of 1124
08:33 kungfuftr lightstep: i would assume it would be a method on the list
08:33 kungfuftr Corion: running 1124 now
08:34 lightstep kungfuftr, i really wanted to ask if @list.join($str) should do join($str, @list)
08:34 Corion BTW, what is the customary way to have in Haskell what I'd implment in Perl via local variables? Is there anything like a hash that I can pass to the recursive functions and set entries there?
08:34 lightstep since the test assumes this
08:34 lightstep Corion, you can use records
08:34 Corion lightstep: I would assume this too, yes (but I don't know anything of the formalities of Perl6)
08:34 kungfuftr lightstep: unless it's been stated somewhere, autrijus assumes perl5 behaviour
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08:35 Corion lightstep: Thanks - will search for that. Searching for "map" or "dictionary" with "Haskell" didn't produce too many useful results
08:36 Darren_Duncan I just updated and tested Pugs again -- 104 test failures now, which is 10 fewer than the IRC header says
08:36 lightstep Corion, but you can use `where' or `let' which lets you access the variables from the current scope
08:36 kungfuftr Darren_Duncan: shush
08:36 Darren_Duncan is it supposed to be a secret?
08:36 kungfuftr Darren_Duncan: no, i just have a slower build machine
08:36 kungfuftr =0)
08:37 Corion lightstep: Hmmm - "current scope" - that's a nice idea - I could make all these recursive invocations local to a surrounding function and set the new values there (instead of passing them around all the time)
08:37 Corion Darren_Duncan: Weird - I got 110/2913 subtests failed (win2k), so we have platform inconsistencies. Yay.
08:38 Darren_Duncan my test is based on revision 1123
08:38 lightstep how do i print an array in perl5?
08:38 gaal print @array
08:39 Corion Or print "@array", if you want the items separated with spaces
08:39 Darren_Duncan my 104 failed is on Mac OS X 10.3.8
08:39 kungfuftr i get 120/2913 here
08:39 gaal print join ", " @array
08:39 Corion (or set $" to separate with something other than spaces)
08:39 Corion kungfuftr: Bah. I gotta go - I'll nopaste my test output
08:39 Darren_Duncan out of 2907 here
08:39 Corion nopaste?
08:39 Corion nopaste
08:39 gaal Hey win32 folks, please say what variant you're using - mingw, straight windows...
08:39 Corion Grr - is the infobot not here?
08:39 gaal perlbot nopaste
08:39 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
08:40 kungfuftr Corion: http://paste.husk.org
08:40 Corion Aah - it's not automatic...
08:40 Darren_Duncan the build/test took awhile since I'm currently without my full RAM compliment, so don't plan to try again today ... i should bump the RAm back up in a couple days though
08:40 kungfuftr i'm running on freebsd 4.11 here
08:41 Darren_Duncan anyway, in case anyone's wondering about my SQL::Routine port progress ...
08:41 Darren_Duncan I haven't started it yet ...
08:41 Darren_Duncan but expect to have the whole thing done over 3-4 hours tomorrow
08:41 * gaal summons nothingmuch
08:41 pasteling "Corion" at 217.86.56.202 pasted "nmake test output on Win2k (Rev. 1124; 110/2913 subtests failed)" (37 lines, 2.4K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8606
08:41 kungfuftr pugscode.org <<Overview Journal>> | pugs.kwiki.org | logged: http://xrl.us/e98m | FBSD_4.11:R1124(120/2913)
08:42 kungfuftr changes topic to: pugscode.org <<Overview Journal>> | pugs.kwiki.org | logged: http://xrl.us/e98m | FBSD_4.11:R1124(120/2913)
08:42 Corion Anyway - gotta run again - the extended command line handling will have to wait some more, but it really needs an overhaul.
08:42 Darren_Duncan that's about 250K of code
08:42 gaal Corion, when we get a chance we need to talk about the command line anyway
08:42 gaal there were some ideas
08:42 autrijus I just realized Perl 5 took almost 4 years.
08:42 gaal last night i forgot.
08:43 kungfuftr changes topic to: pugscode.org <<Overview Journal>> | pugs.kwiki.org | logged: http://xrl.us/e98m | FBSD_4.11:R1124(120/2913) win2k:R1124(110/2913)
08:43 gaal s/5/6/; s/years/months/
08:43 Darren_Duncan the port will be based on the yet unreleased 5v0.58
08:43 Corion gaal: I (no)pasted my prototype yesterday night - maybe you can look at it - otherwise, I'll be back in about 6-8 hours
08:43 gaal k
08:44 gaal but the basic idea was to use perl to parse the pugs command line
08:44 Darren_Duncan don't know if other people have different thoughts, but I started using a simple system to differentiate perl 5 and 6 versions of things in a terse fashion, especially as they both come to be updated in parallel
08:44 Darren_Duncan simply put 5v or 6v in front of the version nums
08:45 Darren_Duncan so I say in my common changelog, for example, that SQL::Routine 6v0.0.1 is a match to 5v0.58
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08:45 lightstep is there any casting going on before the primitive operators are called? or should each operator cast by itself?
08:45 Darren_Duncan or that Locale::KeyedText 6v0.0.3 aligns with 5v1.03
08:45 Darren_Duncan short and sweet
08:46 Darren_Duncan shorter than saying "perl 6 version of ..." or etc
08:46 Corion gaal: Ah, that would be a much more convenient solution, true!
08:46 Corion (because I know Perl, but I don't know Haskell well enough)
08:47 Corion ... still that means I should try to commit my todo_is patch for -e :)
08:48 gaal tests are always welcome :)
08:48 Corion ... still no workee
08:49 gaal corion, i wrote a command line spec for perl5 with getopt::declare, which was the only *module* we could think of that could do it
08:49 lightstep i don't understand Prim.hs: how are primitive operators like `sort' and `join' that get a value and a list differentiate between op(@list), op($val,@list) and @list.op($val)?
08:49 lightstep s/are/should/
08:49 gaal it's not finished yet -- i got distracted -- and maybe it's not even possible to use that w/o some minor hacking
08:49 gaal i should contact dconway about it i suppose
08:50 pasteling "Corion" at 217.86.56.202 pasted "todo test for multiple -e switches" (40 lines, 735B) at http://sial.org/pbot/8607
08:50 Corion gotta run now, see you later, all
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08:51 Darren_Duncan I will also away
08:51 Darren_Duncan has left
08:51 kungfuftr (IRC bots)-- # all made for interactions, not information
08:53 * nothingmuch is summonned
08:54 nothingmuch i have a lesson soon though, so be swift
08:55 kungfuftr a lesson, at easter?
08:55 nothingmuch bass lesson
08:55 nothingmuch and we don't celebrate easter
08:55 kungfuftr ah
08:55 nothingmuch it's still holiday though
08:55 nothingmuch purim ;-)
08:55 nothingmuch gaal
08:56 gaal ah, hello. i was making coffee
08:56 nothingmuch so what did you summon me for?
08:57 gaal i wanted to chat about the server side of the smoke tests.
08:57 nothingmuch ah
08:57 nothingmuch today i should have time
08:57 nothingmuch we have delayed cleaning till tomorrow
08:57 kungfuftr ah... smoke tests... man with a plan
08:57 nothingmuch so i only have a bit of laundry
08:58 gaal i won't :( anyway the output of the report is richer now
08:58 gaal enough to start a demo implementation of the aggregator
08:58 nothingmuch i'll shove in my hack to always print $?CALLER::POSITION in test output
08:59 nothingmuch goody
08:59 nothingmuch (nobody panic! it's only with a special env var)
08:59 nothingmuch and then we can really link stuff up
08:59 gaal i remember you mentioned you had a clear idea of the database side of things there, and i don't, so, well, moose.
08:59 nothingmuch ok
09:00 nothingmuch DB schemas are a bit of a hobby
09:00 nothingmuch so i don't mind ;-)
09:00 nothingmuch maybe we can slap a maypole frontend on the DB, just so people have access to the raw data
09:00 gaal hobby eh? that's what they call it these days
09:00 gaal no no no
09:00 gaal don't say that word :)
09:00 nothingmuch so just post sqlite db file?
09:01 gaal well, to2 has a nice htmlizer for a single report
09:01 nothingmuch is that stuff all checked in?
09:01 gaal i don't knwo what arch you want to do for the server side, so it's prolly
09:01 gaal yes
09:01 nothingmuch ok, then i'll find it =)
09:02 gaal ...prolly betst to be as decoupled from the web server and be a daemon
09:02 nothingmuch yes, it'll be decoupled
09:02 nothingmuch content will be static for the most part, too
09:02 gaal whenever somebody POSTs a new report, the daemon aggregates it and generates a new agg report
09:02 nothingmuch exactly
09:03 gaal the apache -> smokerfilter bridge is simple enough
09:03 gaal but i wasn't sure about the rules for aggregation. Unless we have some, this is Too Much Data
09:03 nothingmuch i'll find something that is an ok balance
09:04 nothingmuch and ofcourse
09:04 gaal certainly for the user, who wants to see a bottom line,
09:04 nothingmuch you guys are here for critique
09:04 nothingmuch stevan is probably good at this stuff
09:04 gaal and possibly for the smokefilter itself
09:05 gaal (generating a single report for all of t/ brings the harness to about 10mb)
09:05 gaal say we have 50 reporters, it becomes iffy - need to do things like collapse tests that everyboy agrees are OK
09:06 gaal and just keep a set of failure messages with a reference to who saw those failures
09:07 gaal is this talk ok on #perl6? should we move elsewhere?
09:07 kungfuftr just report failures and work out the platform inconsistencies at the serverside?
09:07 nothingmuch i think i'll try to whip up anomality detection
09:07 gaal every reporter reports their entire test, sure
09:07 nothingmuch if a test is failing everywhere, but suddenly passes somewhere
09:07 nothingmuch it's interesting
09:07 nothingmuch same vice versa
09:08 kungfuftr true
09:08 nothingmuch that way we can sort of graph the flow of pugs in terms of how tests change, across Rs and platforms
09:08 kungfuftr but you would get that from the fact it wasn't reported, etc
09:08 gaal the server side maintains a *set* of results, which should be normalized
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09:08 nothingmuch anyway, teacher should be here any moment
09:08 nothingmuch so ciao
09:09 gaal rock the house, nm
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09:17 gaal i want to add some build info to pugs -V. does svn have something like cvs $Id$ I can use for embedding revision number?
09:17 jabbot pugs - 1125 - build fix for Eclipse
09:19 lightstep gaal, see src/pugs_version.h
09:19 gaal thanks
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09:22 lightstep is 1=>2=>3 equal to (1=>2)=>3 or to 1=>(2=>3) ?
09:24 lightstep oh, nevermind, i found out it's right-associative
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09:36 gaal um, is there introspection in Haskell? I have Config.hs that exports N values, and i want to query all of it.
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09:37 lightstep gaal, yes and no. you'd better bundle them into a record or a procedure than use the broken introspection capabilities of haskell
09:38 gaal hmm. but i don't want to break the existing code that uses it.
09:39 lightstep you can have the inspector thingy on addition to the regular exports
09:39 gaal i could have a record built that copies them (this file is autogenerated anyway), but that's butt ugly
09:41 gaal hmm, looks like only Main and Run use these values anyway. maybe i could refactor them to use a record?
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09:42 gaal are autrijus and co at the conf already?
09:42 lightstep why do you need it for?
09:43 hcchien gaal: no, it is tomorrow
09:43 gaal config info should be exposed to the perl6 user; and also to pugs -V
09:44 hcchien and I guess we will announce the broadcast about tomorrow morning (GMT+8?)
09:44 * gaal wishes his old teleporter weren't broken
09:46 lightstep what's wong with the manual code in Run.hs and Main.hs?
09:46 gaal so, lightstep, what does work in haskell introspection? i need something simple, really. just a way to access a var by its name, plus a list of names in a moudule
09:46 gaal nothing
09:46 gaal i just want to programmatically get all of the data in Config
09:47 gaal so thinking in Perl terms, i'd have wished for there to be a %Config::Config
09:47 gaal and not a $Config::config_somevar, $Config::config_some_other_var etc.
09:48 lightstep you really don't want to use haskell introspection. there are modules for it - several packages. it requires lots of annotations on both sides of the code. you cound just convert all those variables to tntries in a Data.Map
09:48 gaal that's what i was looking for (i don't know haskell yet - just read yaht :)
09:49 lightstep Data.Map.fromList [("key", value), ...] is the syntax
09:50 gaal okay, i'll take shot at this.
09:58 gaal lightstep, there's a FiniteMap in Internals/Map, which seems to give an implementation even when it's missing in old haskells. should i use that rather than data.map?
09:59 lightstep yes
09:59 gaal k thanks
10:01 lightstep why are there both SymVal and SymExp ?
10:07 gaal lightstep, newbie layout question:
10:07 gaal my list is long, so i wanted to break it out to pairs on separate lines
10:08 gaal config = listToFM [
10:08 gaal    ("key", val)
10:08 gaal ]
10:08 gaal this doesn't parse
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10:08 lightstep you need commas between the pairs
10:08 lightstep (since liftToFM expects a list of pairs)
10:09 gaal er, true
10:09 gaal but is having ] on a line of its own ok
10:09 gaal ?
10:09 lightstep i guess so
10:09 lightstep one common indentation is:
10:09 lightstep var = fromList
10:09 lightstep    [a
10:09 lightstep    ,b
10:10 lightstep    ...
10:10 lightstep    ]
10:10 gaal hmm, okay.
10:10 gaal thanks :)
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10:18 autrijus hi Jouke :)
10:19 Jouke hey autrijus
10:20 Jouke yes, I'm really considering starting to get involved :)
10:20 autrijus yay!
10:20 autrijus read apocryphon, write tests, port modules, think of examples
10:20 autrijus if you have extra time, learn haskell :)
10:22 Jouke hehehe...well, I'll be concentrating on getting prerequisites for pVoice working...that probably gets me involved for quite some time since it uses a lot of modules
10:22 Jouke I think that's good enough for now
10:23 autrijus yup :)
10:23 * _metaperl has Jouke and Juerd confused
10:23 Jouke we're both dutch and have names from the same region in NL
10:23 Jouke but Juerd is the absolute wizard, I'm nothing like that
10:24 gaal how do i, uh, deal with VStr wanting a VStr, and my map lookup returning a Maybe v?
10:24 autrijus fromMaybe?
10:24 gaal tried using lookupWithDefaultFM, but it doesn't seem to work
10:24 gaal not the weay i expeceted anyway :)
10:25 autrijus I think you want fromMaybe :)
10:25 elmex yaho
10:25 gaal okay :)
10:29 gaal it worked, but i don't understand what i was doing wrong when i tried lookupWithDefaultFM, which seems to be intended for the same sort of thing
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10:30 Jouke Are there modules that do inline-haskell/c stuff already or are there examples of such things?
10:30 autrijus Jouke: there's only ext/SHA1/ for now
10:30 autrijus that's a very new development.
10:30 lightstep is there still a reason to keep VThunk? or should i remove it?
10:30 Jouke ah...I was looking in /modules
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10:31 autrijus lightstep: eh, VThunk is used for short-circuiting ||
10:31 autrijus lightstep: how would you like to remove it?
10:31 lightstep oh. i thought it was only used for ::=
10:32 autrijus err, := too
10:32 autrijus it's also essential for the correct currying implementation
10:32 autrijus and serializable continuation
10:32 autrijus so unless you thunk of something better
10:32 autrijus it's here to stay
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10:35 gaal autrijus, i'm changing Config.hs to use a Map instead of many values. it is acceptable to add an accessor Config.getConfig :: Str -> Str (I' hope i'm getting the terminology right)
10:35 autrijus sure, go ahead
10:37 gaal sorry if this is trivial: is it okay for this accessor to assume a "" default on things, rather than Nothing, seeing as the data is being generated from a perl script which curently never puts undef anywhere anyway?
10:40 Jouke should I use darcs or svn to check out the code?
10:41 autrijus gaal: sure.
10:41 autrijus Jouke: svn.openfoundry.org is the main repo.
10:41 autrijus you are free to use darcs
10:41 autrijus but currently only svn accepts direct commits.
10:41 Jouke ok, schwern says on the wiki that svn is not in sync
10:42 autrijus that is incorrect. fix the wiki.
10:42 Jouke k
10:42 _metaperl I was looking for a free svn host. openfoundry did not appear to be soliciting new members
10:42 autrijus _metaperl: applying a new project on openfoundry is like, instantly
10:42 autrijus just go to your personal page
10:42 autrijus click "register project"
10:42 _metaperl personal page?
10:42 _metaperl www.openfoundry.org is where I went
10:43 autrijus http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Home/
10:43 autrijus you want rt.openfoundry.org.
10:43 autrijus www.openfoundry.org is beyond my control :)
10:44 autrijus 18:43 < tsee_> autrijus: Is there a guide for module authors on how to port
10:44 autrijus               their modules to P6? That might get you even more tests.
10:44 autrijus 18:43 < autrijus> tsee_: darren has written a summary on p6c
10:44 autrijus 18:43 < autrijus> but that's not a guide per se.
10:44 autrijus maybe we want modules/README
10:44 autrijus similar to t/README
10:44 _metaperl omg, the user agreement in Chinese :)
10:44 _metaperl I always hit accept anyway, but I hope I am not offering my testicles up for sacrifice
10:45 Jouke :)
10:47 autrijus _metaperl: that's a faq. :) http://wagner.elixus.org/~hcchien/termtouse.html
10:47 _metaperl yes, a bit of a drawback is the project id cannot have dashes...
10:47 autrijus oh? I thought we fixed that.
10:48 autrijus hm, apparently not. weird policy.
10:48 _metaperl no, I just attempted to submit dbix-dbh
10:48 _metaperl and it kicked back with that error
10:48 autrijus does dbix_dbh work?
10:49 _metaperl * ID must be 3-15 characters of lower-case letters or digits, beginning with a letter
10:49 _metaperl I will try
10:49 _metaperl no
10:49 autrijus well then. sorry for that policy :-/
10:49 autrijus dbixdbh then
10:49 _metaperl * ID must be 3-15 characters of lower-case letters or digits, beginning with a letter
10:49 _metaperl ok
10:49 gaal that looks like a product
10:51 autrijus and it is
10:51 gaal lol
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10:57 * Jouke is afraid he'll have to learn Haskell to achieve his goals
10:57 autrijus haskell is easy and fun to learn
10:57 autrijus and will make you write much better perl5 code :)
10:57 autrijus some people likes haskell.org/tutorial/
10:57 autrijus some people like YAHT mentioned in PA01
10:58 Jouke I tend to have real problems learning new languages...I picked up Perl in '97 and haven't learned any new languages since
10:58 _metaperl THe Algorithms book is really pretty good, but I'm buying Simon Thompson's book
10:58 autrijus ah. you can start by hacking src/Prim.hs :)
10:58 * Jouke has plenty of ideas for this weekend
10:59 _metaperl so you still need the other math operators added there?
10:59 _metaperl sin, cos ,etc?
10:59 Jouke unless I'm very wrong, and unless I don't succeed learning a little bit of haskell, it won't be too hard to implement Win32::OLE using HaskellDirect
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11:00 autrijus right. you can do that easily.
11:00 autrijus you can also try to see if you can do that on the parrot side.
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11:00 autrijus doing it at either side is sufficient.
11:00 Jouke and it's one of the basic things I need, so I think I'll be concentrating on that first
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11:01 Jouke on the parrot side?
11:01 autrijus see parrot/examples/sdl/
11:01 autrijus for a sdl binding
11:01 autrijus if you do the OLE binding there
11:01 autrijus (there may already be one)
11:01 autrijus then pugs can just use that binding.
11:01 autrijus the 3rd way is to use an embedded perl5 interpreter.
11:02 autrijus so you can just use Win32::OLE.
11:02 autrijus pugs has limited support for that.
11:02 nothingmuch well
11:02 autrijus but it's kind of not very clean.
11:02 Jouke I'd rather go for a parrot or haskell implementation
11:03 autrijus ok. then you can choose to learn a very very low level assembly that is PIR
11:03 autrijus /PMC
11:03 autrijus or a very very high level language that is Haskell :)
11:03 autrijus surprisingly, writing C-level bindings in both are very easy.
11:04 autrijus Haskell in particular already has Win32.DLL.*
11:04 autrijus if you install GHC 6.4.
11:04 autrijus and it has bindings to most of the APIs.
11:04 autrijus it helps that GHC is developed by Microsoft Research.
11:04 Jouke ok, ok, I'm convinced...I need to learn some Haskell first :)
11:04 autrijus ok... lambdafolk first, birdfolk later :)
11:04 osfameron has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
11:05 Alias_ autrijus: Does that mean what I think it means? We can do Perl6.NET relatively easily?
11:05 Jouke sounds like it
11:05 autrijus Alias_: er, it's one thing to be able to call NET and back
11:05 Alias_ I'm assuming of course, that MS Research has some form of Haskell.NET linkup for GHC
11:05 autrijus it's another to compile to native NET
11:05 autrijus the first is totally easy.
11:05 f0rth has joined #perl6
11:05 autrijus the second is a bit trickier (you need to compile to F# perhaps)
11:05 autrijus but totally doable.
11:06 autrijus since F# is really just ML
11:06 autrijus and Haskell<->ML is not hard.
11:06 Jouke ML?
11:06 autrijus ML is this metalanguage thing.
11:07 autrijus it's the canonical eager functional language.
11:07 Jouke ok...too advanced talk for me right now
11:07 autrijus (while Haskell is the canonical lazy one)
11:07 rgs F# ?
11:07 rgs the functional side of C# ?
11:07 jabbot pugs - 1126 - added the numeric functions which were e
11:07 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "low-level question about high-level language" (12 lines, 461B) at http://sial.org/pbot/8610
11:08 autrijus rgs: F# is basically ML ported to .net
11:08 autrijus rgs: it's a remarkably complete port.
11:08 rgs wow
11:08 _metaperl http://research.microsoft.com/projects/ilx/fsharp.aspx
11:08 rgs cool languages which have full specs can be ported to cool environments.
11:08 nothingmuch microsoft seems to invest a lot of effort in FP
11:08 rgs Perl 5 can't :-(
11:08 _metaperl they say it's Ocaml ported to .net
11:09 _metaperl yes, they fund research on Haskell
11:09 gaal can someone help me with the error nopasted above?
11:09 rgs a coworker confirms that F# is ocaml
11:09 autrijus right.
11:09 autrijus only not full ocaml
11:09 autrijus gaal: it worksforme on ghc 6.4
11:09 autrijus gaal: typo.
11:09 autrijus I think
11:10 rgs this coworker once wrote a perl 5 parser in ocaml.
11:10 autrijus I want that.
11:10 rgs not as good as PPI though.
11:10 autrijus doesn't matter :)
11:10 autrijus convince that coworker to release it?
11:10 autrijus that may give us Pugs.Parser.Perl5.
11:10 nothingmuch awwaiid is an ocaml user
11:10 gaal autrijus, what's the typo? i can't see it
11:11 autrijus gaal: http://autrijus.org/test.hs
11:11 autrijus $ runghc test.hs
11:11 autrijus ["one: 1","two: 2"]
11:11 autrijus worksforme.
11:12 rgs autrijus: that's a kind of "lint" for perl sources. http://cvs.mandrakesoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/soft/perl-MDK-Common/perl_checker.src/ (undocumented of course)
11:12 autrijus danke!
11:12 autrijus license?
11:12 rgs GPL
11:12 f0rth has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
11:13 gaal thanks.. weird.
11:13 autrijus can it be relaxed to perl? :)
11:13 autrijus (otherwise I can't include it in pugs.)
11:14 nothingmuch should so many p6 modules be in the core repo?
11:14 nothingmuch right now it's still a convenience
11:14 autrijus nothingmuch: no. we're working on it. :)
11:14 nothingmuch but 10 modules from now i think it'd be hard
11:14 autrijus yes.
11:14 nothingmuch freepan is starting to happen?
11:14 f0rth has joined #perl6
11:14 autrijus yes.
11:14 autrijus we got bandwidth and machine and a roadmap
11:14 rgs autrijus: there's a plan to turn it into a publicly releaseable shape.
11:14 nothingmuch yay!
11:14 autrijus need more hackings tomorrow
11:14 autrijus rgs: yay.
11:14 rgs it's (c) mandrakesoft, thus GPL
11:15 nothingmuch autrijus: any help will be gladly offerred
11:15 * nothingmuch used to sysop, so that stuff is all good
11:15 autrijus nothingmuch: oh. cool. yay
11:15 autrijus will keep you in touch
11:15 nothingmuch will freepan be implemented in p6? ;-)
11:15 nothingmuch sure thing
11:15 Alias_ freepan?
11:16 Alias_ Some sort of massive all-languages CPAN?
11:16 autrijus Alias_: http://yapc.kwiki.org/taipei/index.cgi?FreepanProposal
11:16 autrijus "Free Programming Archive Network"
11:17 Alias_ I see some dangerous things in that list
11:17 Alias_ Release via svn tag is dangerous
11:17 pasteling "kcwu" at 61.70.142.187 pasted "let script/pugscc know $ENV{GHC}" (28 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8611
11:18 autrijus Alias_: uh the idea is to use tools.
11:18 autrijus not letting people using svn propset
11:18 Alias_ Sounds like a hack waiting to happen
11:18 autrijus sure.
11:19 autrijus kcwu: looks good, commit it
11:19 autrijus welcome aboard!
11:19 integral it sounds a bit harder to mirror too: harder than just rsyncing, and serving FTP/HTTP
11:19 Alias_ Part 2. Why do I have to use your repository? What about mine?
11:19 autrijus integral: svn repo is also http repo.
11:19 autrijus so that answers your question.
11:19 autrijus Alias_: you can just use yours and send pings.
11:19 autrijus the idea is that of blogspheres ;)
11:19 Alias_ My CVS repository doesn't do that...
11:19 autrijus as long as your svn is publicly reachable.
11:19 Alias_ You mean I have to use svn?
11:19 autrijus then you need a gateway.
11:20 autrijus foundry can mirror svn from cvs.
11:20 autrijus you'll just hand it an anon acccount.
11:20 autrijus and a cvs :ext:/:pserver: line.
11:20 Alias_ But svn is such an old repository, everyone has moved on to NGVC (Next-Generation Version Control)
11:20 autrijus and it figures out the rest.
11:20 integral I always liked the separation between PAUSE, CPAN and search.cpan.org, seemed quite useful
11:20 f0rth pugscc is perl5 powered?
11:20 autrijus SVK is that NGVC.
11:20 autrijus f0rth: yes.
11:20 autrijus integral: right, and we intend to decentralize PAUSE
11:20 Alias_ eep
11:21 integral hrm, but centralisation seems to be implied by a normal mirror system where each mirror talks to just one upstream
11:21 Alias_ No way in hell you want a decentralised module source
11:22 autrijus I thought bloglines works pretty well.
11:22 Alias_ bloglines?
11:22 autrijus bloglines.com
11:22 kolibrie I'm getting this error on 'make':
11:22 kolibrie src/Prim.hs:76:
11:22 kolibrie    Could not deduce (Floating a) from the context (Num a)
11:22 kolibrie      arising from use of `atan' at src/Prim.hs:76
11:22 Alias_ autrijus: That you want to design any technical system based on the structure of blogging scares me the most :)
11:23 kolibrie src/Prim.hs:76:
11:23 kolibrie    Could not deduce (Floating a) from the context (Num a)
11:23 kolibrie      arising from use of `atan' at src/Prim.hs:76
11:23 autrijus Alias_: pugs uses the structure of wiki :)
11:23 autrijus for committers.
11:23 kolibrie I'm getting this error on 'make':
11:23 autrijus it seems to have worked.
11:23 kolibrie src/Prim.hs:76:
11:23 kolibrie    Could not deduce (Floating a) from the context (Num a)
11:23 kolibrie      arising from use of `atan' at src/Prim.hs:76
11:23 kolibrie src/Prim.hs:76:
11:23 kolibrie    Could not deduce (Floating a) from the context (Num a)
11:23 kolibrie      arising from use of `atan' at src/Prim.hs:76
11:23 autrijus er.
11:23 Alias_ autrijus: pugs isn't important enough yet :)
11:23 autrijus Alias_: neither is freepan :)
11:23 masak has joined #perl6
11:23 autrijus I don't see a "atan".
11:23 * autrijus syncs
11:23 Alias_ Sure, but you can easily tighten up the commit bits later
11:24 Alias_ Don't sommit to an architecture you can't control
11:24 Alias_ err commit
11:24 autrijus talk to ingy not me :)
11:24 Alias_ The current structure of CPAN is ok, but the database and PAUSE itself are a mess
11:24 _metaperl oh tath is my fault
11:24 autrijus kolibrie: fixing
11:24 _metaperl kolibrie, that is my fault
11:25 kolibrie autrijus: thanks - and sorry I pasted that so many times, my buffer was stuck
11:25 autrijus _metaperl: oh ok. will you fix it?
11:25 _metaperl perlfunc has atan2
11:25 autrijus _metaperl: basically don't use op2Numeric for Floating
11:25 autrijus or you'd like me to do ti?
11:25 autrijus it
11:25 _metaperl i used op1Numeric
11:25 autrijus right. same
11:26 autrijus I fixed it.
11:26 kolibrie autrijus: thanks for fixing the darcs repo, too.  Weird that "-r ." wasn't working
11:29 autrijus _metaperl: (**) is not op1.
11:29 autrijus anyway, committing
11:29 autrijus please fix ** yourself :)
11:29 _metaperl oh
11:29 autrijus remember to make before commit :)
11:30 _metaperl ok I will see what it is
11:30 _metaperl ok
11:30 _metaperl the bad ting about Haskell is I cannot grep for "sub op1Numeric" to find the definition of the function
11:31 autrijus ^op1Numeric
11:31 autrijus is much better.
11:31 _metaperl ah yes
11:33 _metaperl now I have merge conflicts
11:34 _metaperl I want to just get the current repository version.it looks like you fixed it
11:35 gaal useful Haskell resource: http://www.zvon.org/other/haskell/Outputglobal/index.html
11:36 _metaperl paste?
11:36 gaal perlbot nopaste
11:36 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
11:36 _metaperl that thing isn't working for me
11:36 _metaperl i'm using a different one
11:36 autrijus &
11:37 gaal works fine here, _metaperl. are you setting the channel?
11:37 _metaperl yes, maybe firefox is having issues
11:37 _metaperl anyway, my Prim.hs is borked
11:37 _metaperl http://pastebin.com/262508
11:37 jabbot pugs - 1130 - * fix building for math funcs
11:37 jabbot pugs - 1129 - Config is now a FiniteMap; elaborate -V
11:37 jabbot pugs - 1128 - hopefully fixed atan issue
11:37 jabbot pugs - 1127 - let script/pugscc know $ENV{GHC}
11:38 _metaperl i'm removing Prim.hs and doing svn update
11:38 _metaperl hallelujah.
11:38 _metaperl back to normal
11:39 tsee has joined #perl6
11:45 autrijus tsee: it's fixed a few mins ago
11:45 autrijus svn up?
11:54 saorge has joined #perl6
11:57 hlafarge has joined #perl6
11:57 gaal if i'm in the middle of a list definition in haskell:   [ "1", "2", "3", >>I am here<<, "6", 7" ] -- what functional expression can replace '>> I am here<<' with several elements?
11:58 malaire do you mean a sublist or what?
11:59 gaal i don't want [ 1, 2, 3, [ 4, 5 ], 6, 7 ]
11:59 gaal i want [ 1, 2, 3,4 , 5, 6, 7]
12:00 nothingmuch gaal: [ "1", "2", "3" ] : (foo) : [ "6", "7" ]?
12:00 malaire probably ++ not :
12:00 Alias_ has quit IRC ("Leaving")
12:00 malaire [1,2,3] ++ [4,5] ++ [6,7,8]
12:01 gaal instead of [4,5] i have someFunc
12:01 nothingmuch err, right
12:01 nothingmuch malaire++
12:01 nothingmuch no, it is also broken
12:01 nothingmuch in my example you'd have to concat all that
12:01 malaire [1,2,3] ++ someFunc ++ [6,7,8]
12:01 malaire [1,2,3] ++ (someFunc with args) ++ [6,7,8]
12:01 gaal [1,2,3] ++ (someFunc params) ++ [6,7] ok?
12:01 nothingmuch yup
12:01 gaal thanks, malaire++ :)
12:02 gaal if i weren't allowed to throw in the ] and [, i'd have had no other way of doing it?
12:02 nothingmuch well, you could splitAt the initial list
12:02 nothingmuch twice
12:02 nothingmuch and then concat it
12:03 nothingmuch but that's probably not what you mean
12:03 gaal right
12:03 nothingmuch syntatically it doesn't make sense in the same way
12:03 nothingmuch because every single thing inside a [] is a single element
12:03 nothingmuch and every function returns a single element
12:03 nothingmuch which could be a list
12:03 gaal i guess i was looking for @{ }
12:04 nothingmuch i don't there is such a concept in haskell
12:04 gaal k
12:04 nothingmuch you could foldr with a weird unwrapping ++ sort of thing
12:04 nothingmuch to make [1, 2, 3, [4, 5], 6, 7] into [1 .. 7]
12:05 gaal nah nah
12:05 gaal i was just cleaning up my first haskell code
12:11 gaal should we expose the Config data as %?CONFIG ? (why not? but it's not specced)
12:12 nothingmuch larry has some weird ideas about that, i think
12:17 gaal interesting, yes: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/perl.perl6.language/msg/5b4cf83a4c6e3f5f?q=perl.perl6.language+config&amp;lr=&amp;rnum=2
12:17 jabbot pugs - 1131 - Ported URI::Find 0.15 and URI::Find::Sch
12:26 Jouke for one who hasn't used subversion before and just installed svk... how do I checkout pugs?
12:27 gaal http://pugs.kwiki.org/?FrequentlyAskedQuestions svn co http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs
12:27 * gaal isn't using svk though
12:29 Jouke checking out now :)
12:29 Jouke thx
12:30 kolibrie has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
12:30 JackyCheng has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
12:34 Jouke step 2: installing GHC :)
12:34 gaal :) get version 6.4
12:37 Jouke yup....was downloading that one
12:37 jabbot pugs - 1132 - cleanup
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12:40 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
12:45 dada hi Jouke!
12:47 jabbot pugs - 1134 - Ported URI::Find::Simple 0.7 (complete w
12:47 jabbot pugs - 1133 - do we like point-free?
12:48 Jouke hey dada
12:48 Jouke have you ported Win32::API already dada? ;-)
12:48 dada Jouke: errm...
12:49 Jouke if you won't, I probably will after Win32::OLE
12:49 dada oh, but Win32::API will probably die
12:49 dada GHC has its own FFI library, and parrot too
12:50 Jouke right, but that needs some Inline Haskell still I guess
12:50 dada yes, but you can pack that Inline as a module, rather than rewriting Win32::API
12:51 dada actually, I don't think pugs expose such functionalities
12:52 dada are you really trying to implement Win32::OLE in pugs?
12:52 Jouke I'll try to mimick the behaviour, probably mostly using Inline stuff to Haskell
12:52 Jouke by using the same API, porting stuff will be much easier
12:53 dada but
12:54 dada I wouldn't spend *too* much time on it
12:54 dada parrot has NCI, which will probably be _the_ way to write XS-like stuff in Perl6
12:54 * Jouke will look at that
12:55 Jouke damn...I first chose to get all revisions, which took too long, so I pressed ctrl-c, and now I can't check out anything anymore
12:57 cnhackTNT|away has joined #perl6
12:57 cnhackTNT|away is now known as cnhackTNT
12:57 Jouke ahh...fixed
12:58 nothingmuch oh my
12:59 * nothingmuch is really ashamed of himself
12:59 nothingmuch but we have little sup links to tests with regex skips
13:02 theorbtwo Mornin.
13:03 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
13:06 nothingmuch hola theorbtwo
13:06 nothingmuch html question:
13:06 nothingmuch i have a <pre>
13:06 Jouke mmm....win32 ghc doesn't have a ghc executable ... and thus pugs won't build... any ideas?
13:06 nothingmuch which contains a table
13:06 nothingmuch in the syns
13:07 nothingmuch and i'm putting little <sup> links in there
13:07 nothingmuch how would i cause it not to break the formatting too much?
13:07 theorbtwo pre can't contain anything but text, by definition.  You'd have to end the pre, put in the sup, and close the pre.
13:07 nothingmuch it does work
13:07 jabbot pugs - 1135 - Continued porting MIME::Lite, now pendin
13:07 theorbtwo (tt, OTOH, can contain anything...)
13:07 nothingmuch i don't care about validity yet
13:07 nothingmuch hmm
13:08 nothingmuch so basically we want to have better syn htmls
13:08 Jouke ah, never mind
13:08 nothingmuch theorbtwo: is your SEE ok?
13:08 nothingmuch i would like you to look over the sup insertion code
13:09 theorbtwo No, my emulator is completely messed up, and seemacs isn't anywhere close to usable yet.
13:10 nothingmuch either way, generating backlinked HTML for now
13:10 nothingmuch bummer
13:10 nothingmuch as a preview
13:10 nothingmuch well, i'll do my best to clean it up, and then check in
13:10 PerlJam has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:10 theorbtwo Great!
13:10 theorbtwo Hm, can you upload some HTML somewhere for me to take a look at?
13:10 nothingmuch yes, that's what i meant
13:11 theorbtwo Oh, also, generating <a name>s in the test HTML would possibly be nice, so I could make the test runner link to them.
13:11 nothingmuch test runner?
13:11 theorbtwo Er, <a name>s from the test numbers or names.
13:11 nothingmuch the top part of catalog_tests?
13:11 nothingmuch i'll do that
13:12 theorbtwo util/testgraph.pl
13:12 theorbtwo One thing at a time, though!
13:12 nothingmuch ah
13:12 nothingmuch we'll have to rethink the 0+$link id generation thing though
13:12 theorbtwo Not really; no OS I know of uses page 0 for user links, so the two won't collide.
13:13 nothingmuch that's not what i mean
13:13 Jouke does this error from nmake.exe make any sense to anyone:
13:14 Jouke makefile(413) : fatal error U1087: cannot have : and :: dependents for same target
13:14 Jouke Stop.
13:14 nothingmuch there's no way to determine where to link from testgraph.pl without knowing what the link will be
13:14 nothingmuch or looking
13:14 nothingmuch so we could use sequences
13:14 nothingmuch or something else
13:14 nothingmuch we'll see
13:14 dada Jouke: which nmake?
13:14 Jouke 1.5
13:14 theorbtwo That's what I said -- test numbers or test names.
13:15 Jouke perl Makefile.PL detected I hadn't installed nmake yet, so it fetched it for me, then 'nmake' spit this out
13:15 nothingmuch i think testgraph should link to the test file
13:15 nothingmuch ah
13:15 nothingmuch that doens't map
13:15 nothingmuch run <-> code is not necessarily consistent
13:15 nothingmuch anyway, later
13:15 nothingmuch halting problem and all that ;-)
13:15 nothingmuch nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status/
13:15 nothingmuch search for 't:
13:15 nothingmuch S02 has quite a few
13:16 gaal nm, to2: question about the harness.
13:16 gaal i want to capture stderr
13:16 gaal so that if a test blows up hard, the info is at least stored somewhere.
13:16 gaal (we already report diag())
13:17 gaal but unfortunately this isn't captured by T:H:Straps
13:17 gaal it isn'
13:17 gaal t hard to hack up,
13:17 flw has quit IRC ("SunNet HIRC-2, ÁúµÄÈí¼þ")
13:17 gaal but has to be inside a long function. so my question...
13:18 gaal patch Test::Harness locally? talk the Test::Harness people to apply my patch?
13:19 theorbtwo Hmm, both?
13:19 gaal what does it mean that T:H is in inc and not in ext/ ?
13:19 theorbtwo ext is perl6 modules that we consider "core"; inc is perl5 modules needed to install pugs.
13:20 theorbtwo (modules is perl6 modules that we don't consider "core", but don't yet have a better place to put.)
13:20 nothingmuch theorbtwo: how would you express a range of content, in HTML::Element?
13:21 gaal okay, q#2 then. i said "not hard to hack up", but i meant that i either depend on Test::Output for it, or slap on the part of Test::Output (T:O:Tie, really) that i need. Test::Harness being such an important module, i expect they wouldn't want to add a dep, but this is feature creep
13:21 theorbtwo nm, I could have sworn that that wouldn't work, but it looks like it does.  As to breaking layout, I guess just rely on the person writing the link...
13:21 gaal why do we need a p5 test::harness, actually?
13:21 theorbtwo It's not really feature creep...
13:22 gaal by the time we run the tests, we have p6
13:22 theorbtwo Is pugs up to porting it?
13:22 Jouke ah, don't try to install it in a directory containing spaces
13:22 nothingmuch i could also s/\ {$num_of_chars_in_sub}\ //;
13:22 nothingmuch out of the next bit of text
13:22 nothingmuch but i don't want to do that yet
13:23 * nothingmuch wants the synopses to have proper <divs>
13:23 gaal how ready are the file io and redirection bits? i don't know t:h intimately - yet - but that's basically the hard stuff.
13:24 gaal hmm, there's also platform stuff like Win32::GetShortPathName
13:24 cnhackTNT is now known as cnhackTNT|away
13:24 gaal so maybe pugs isn't up to it quite yet.
13:25 theorbtwo Oh, pre doesn't have quite the semantics I thought it did.
13:25 gaal that is, pugs is, but there are deps
13:25 scw Wow, my pugs core dumped
13:25 theorbtwo scw: OS, arch, GHC version?
13:26 theorbtwo (We no longer support 6.2.2.)
13:26 scw theorbtwo: Linux 2.6, i386, GHC 6.4
13:26 theorbtwo Hm, odd.
13:26 scw theorbtwo: Using shell of pugs and type '? say 12'
13:28 theorbtwo Segfaults for me too.
13:29 scw Err, what's up..
13:29 theorbtwo Odd, ./pugs -e '? say 12' doesn't give a syntax error.
13:30 scw no, '?' cast the result to boolean and say returns true?
13:30 theorbtwo D'oh!
13:31 Lynx_awy is now known as Lynx_
13:33 scw But ? at the first charactor of the shell command should mean "evaluate the perl 6 expression and give me the debug info!"
13:33 Lynx_ has left "bye"
13:33 theorbtwo I know, scw.
13:35 * Jouke is unable to build pugs with perl5 embedded :( no more time now, gotta work for $$$
13:36 Jouke later people!
13:49 theorbtwo Eeep: Can't use an undefined value as a HASH reference at util/yaml_harness.pl line 88, <FILE> line 2.
13:50 theorbtwo $self->latest_event->{diag} .= $line if $Test::Harness::Verbose;
13:50 gaal what test?
13:50 theorbtwo t/examples/examples.t
13:50 gaal i was afraid that might happen :)
13:51 gaal but couldn't find sometihng that did it. apparently the test is dying early
13:51 gaal hold on, i'll fix it
13:52 theorbtwo Oh, looks like I need to make testgraph do something sane with non-test events.
13:52 gaal yes, the fix i'm doing now is exactly for when that happens.
13:53 theorbtwo Ah, yeah, the first line after the plan is "# Running under linux".  Are you going to put that on the top level, next to the filename of the t file?
13:54 gaal yes, as diag elem in a node that isn't a test
13:54 theorbtwo Oh, so not what I was thinking.
13:54 gaal hmm, why does this still not break on my machine?
13:54 theorbtwo Hmm... yeah, I think I see how to do it.
13:55 gaal ah, of course, i wasn't -v'ing. silly me.
13:55 gaal wait, you prefer it one node up the hierarchy?
13:55 gaal i can do that too.
13:56 theorbtwo No, actually, the way you were going to do it is better.
13:56 gaal easier for me too :) one sec
13:57 jabbot pugs - 1136 - Ported Email::Envelope 0.01 (complete wi
13:58 gaal r1137 fixes it.
14:07 stevan wow,.. iblech is going crazy!!!!
14:08 stevan morning all
14:08 gaal hey stevan!
14:08 cnhackTNT|away has quit IRC ()
14:08 stevan hey gaal
14:08 stevan I need to catch up to you guys on the yaml thing
14:09 gaal there's plenty more metadata now, and i'm wokring on catching stderr from dying scripts
14:09 stevan autrijus++ # for adding $1 support to s:perl5
14:09 gaal theorbtwo is ever making the html better
14:09 stevan gaal: maybe we should fix those scripts to either just fail() or use eval
14:09 stevan gaal++
14:09 stevan theorbtwo++
14:10 gaal nothingmuch said he'll work on the db+server side of this, but wanted to consult you for aggregation
14:10 nothingmuch display, mostly
14:10 stevan yes I saw that
14:10 stevan nothingmuch: what did you have in mind?
14:11 nothingmuch what I think would be cool:
14:12 nothingmuch we have synopses, with links to tests
14:12 nothingmuch we have tests, with links to synopses
14:12 nothingmuch and with notes at the end of the line
14:12 nothingmuch for pass, or fail
14:12 nothingmuch with the number of the case
14:12 nothingmuch in color
14:12 nothingmuch like: todo_ok(blah blahb blah)    1, 4, 5
14:12 nothingmuch the numbers are the cases, and they have the color codes
14:12 nothingmuch then i'd like the graph to link to the line
14:13 stevan so 1 is fail, 4 is pass and 5 is todos?
14:13 nothingmuch as for smoked display
14:13 stevan like that?
14:13 nothingmuch i don't understand
14:13 nothingmuch lets say the TAP outputed
14:13 nothingmuch ok 1 (file.t at blah, column x)
14:13 nothingmuch (i have a patch to Test.pm that does that if an env var is set)
14:14 nothingmuch it will place a green 1 after line blah
14:14 gaal stevan, re:fail/eval for dying tests: the problem is hard parsefails. maybe we shouldn't have any, but if they do happen, of course we'd like to know the error
14:14 nothingmuch in the htmlized test
14:14 stevan gaal: we can probably just use fail() and comment out the hardparsefail
14:15 stevan nothingmuch: I understand now
14:15 stevan (I think)
14:15 gaal the author of the test could.. but what if it's not a parsefail for him, or wasn't when the test was written?
14:16 nothingmuch gaal: then someone will commit a fix, i think
14:16 stevan gaal: i think if it parsefails for me, it is very likely to parsefail for you
14:16 gaal but what if it passes for you in r1000, but somebody b0rked it in r2000?
14:17 stevan this brings me to my other idea
14:17 stevan :)
14:17 nothingmuch then r2000+x should fix it
14:17 gaal :)
14:17 stevan I made up that TODO list the other day foro autrijus
14:17 stevan i am sure it is out of date again
14:17 stevan with all our test parsing
14:17 stevan it would be nice to be able to create that TODO list automagically
14:17 jabbot pugs - 1137 - handle diag messages occurring before an
14:17 * nothingmuch really wants $?SUB in p56
14:17 stevan if only just to provide a short list of failing testing and files
14:17 nothingmuch s/6$//
14:18 gaal grep -r todo_ t     ? :)
14:18 stevan gaal: we un-TODOed them
14:18 stevan they fail now
14:18 stevan TODO is only for unimplemented features
14:18 gaal so i'm not sure i understand
14:19 gaal you want to retodo them because they were intenionally broken e.g. for a reimplementation?
14:19 stevan no
14:19 stevan all the failing tests serve as a TODO list
14:20 stevan of things which should work, but dont
14:20 gaal so far so good :)
14:20 stevan I would like to use the YAML harness to generate a file (or email or something)
14:20 stevan which would list each file which had failures in it
14:20 stevan use nothingmuch
14:21 stevan 's patch to Test.pm
14:21 stevan and list the line numbers for each failed test
14:21 gaal actually the yaml should have a todo attrib on tests whether in verbose mode or not
14:21 stevan so whenever anyone says "is there a TODO list??"
14:22 stevan we can say "run the util/make_todo_list.pl"
14:22 stevan or something like that
14:22 gaal right. that's easy on my side of things. yuval, is your coordinate patch in?
14:22 scw theorbtwo: seems the '?' in interactive mode has been renamed to '!'? It give me the result I want.
14:22 stevan gaal: re: being easy; thats what I was hoping you would say :)
14:22 gaal :)
14:23 stevan I think I am going to write up a modules/README too
14:23 stevan autrijus mentioned it
14:23 stevan and maybe have a chat with our mad porter :)
14:24 stevan and get him to write a How-To
14:24 theorbtwo :h lists both.
14:25 * nothingmuch wants a mad prefix
14:26 gaal does TAP define /# TODO/, or is that an ad-hoc way of telling a test is todo?
14:26 nothingmuch it does
14:27 gaal in that case
14:27 nothingmuch it's like skip
14:27 gaal svn up :)
14:27 jabbot pugs - 1139 - todo property on todo tests.
14:27 nothingmuch gaal: yaml thing
14:27 jabbot pugs - 1138 - * Added test for the Proxy object.
14:27 gaal nothingmuch, the mad prefix
14:28 nothingmuch it should not have -v
14:28 nothingmuch that should be the default
14:28 nothingmuch yaml is data, not display
14:28 nothingmuch and as much as possible of it should be available
14:28 gaal true.
14:29 gaal since typeglobs have gone away, perhaps you can use their ol' sigil, *nothingmuch.
14:30 nothingmuch no
14:30 nothingmuch that does not imply what i do,
14:30 nothingmuch unless i'm 'the mad splatter'
14:30 nothingmuch and i don't know what it does
14:30 gaal no, the prefix itself is mad.
14:31 gaal which is what you said you wanted. :p
14:31 nothingmuch ok, i'll rephrase
14:31 * nothingmuch wants to be called 'the mad %s', where %s is filled in by some cool quality he has
14:31 nothingmuch ;-)
14:31 theorbtwo the mad tester?
14:32 nothingmuch actually i haven't written tests all week
14:32 nothingmuch bzzt!
14:32 stevan I think "the mad %s" is good
14:32 nothingmuch next please
14:32 nothingmuch beh
14:33 stevan the mad ADD driven jack of all trades with insomnia?
14:33 stevan nothingmuch: face it,.. you un-classifyable
14:33 stevan (which is a good thing IMO)
14:33 nothingmuch beh, fine, what ever
14:33 nothingmuch *sob8
14:34 * nothingmuch just can't find a clean way to do what he wants to HTML
14:34 nothingmuch it's such a crappy format
14:34 gaal you don't say :)
14:34 stevan nothingmuch: let me try, i used to do HTML for a living
14:35 nothingmuch stevan: see?
14:36 stevan uhm
14:36 stevan yeah let me re-install
14:36 nothingmuch okay
14:36 theorbtwo So did I; that simply leaves me with more creadance to say it's a bad format.
14:36 larsen find ./ | xargs mail yoursister
14:36 larsen oops
14:36 stevan ooh I can just run it off the dmg :)
14:37 larsen sorry. wrong window
14:37 xerox ahah
14:37 jabbot pugs - 1140 - always be verbose
14:38 stevan theorbtwo: I totally agree, however, in a sick way I like HTML
14:38 stevan or at least parts of it
14:38 nothingmuch theorbtwo: how do i get all the text content out of a HTML::Element tree?
14:38 stevan nothingmuch: ready and waiting for see
14:38 theorbtwo $tree->as_text;
14:39 nothingmuch no, seperate
14:39 nothingmuch i have a regex that matches $tree->as_text
14:39 nothingmuch but does not match sub elems
14:39 nothingmuch even though it really really should
14:40 nothingmuch i'm trying to figure out who is at fault
14:40 nothingmuch see://woobling.org
14:41 nothingmuch stevan: i selected the icky part
14:41 stevan ok
14:41 nothingmuch the problem is that the if is not always working, when it shoul
14:41 nothingmuch and i suspect the traversal is bad
14:41 nothingmuch i think the next step is to rewrite it
14:41 nothingmuch and not use ->traverse
14:42 nothingmuch since the docs say it's bad anyway
14:42 nothingmuch brb
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14:47 jabbot pugs - 1141 - Ported Algorithm::TokenBucket 0.2 (compl
14:52 PerlJam has joined #perl6
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14:55 theorbtwo Oh, updated testgraph as r1143
14:55 theorbtwo Forgot I hadn't uploaded it yet...
14:57 jabbot pugs - 1143 - testgraph updates
14:57 jabbot pugs - 1142 - Port of Algorithm::FloodControl 1.00 (co
14:58 gaal yaml_harness's -v is retired; should it default '-o tests.yml -r t/' ?
14:59 gaal ... -X Disabled     ?
15:00 theorbtwo I think so.
15:00 theorbtwo (Change testgraph to defualt to tests.yml instead of .yaml if you do.)
15:01 hlafarge has joined #perl6
15:01 gaal heh - i didn't realize you were using that :)
15:01 gaal i'm saying .yml simply because that's what i saw on META.yml
15:02 schoch has joined #perl6
15:02 schoch autrijus you around
15:02 theorbtwo Shrug.  This stuff is the first time I've ever used yaml.
15:11 gaal gotta go for ~5hrs
15:11 gaal bye&
15:17 jabbot pugs - 1145 - forgot -X
15:17 jabbot pugs - 1144 - better defaults for yaml stuff
15:18 nothingmuch stevan: i have a small bug
15:18 nothingmuch ci in 5 mins
15:18 stevan ok
15:18 nothingmuch the greedy <sub> appending is broken
15:33 * theorbtwo pings autrijus.
15:33 schoch anyone interested in a perl6 book developed in wiki?
15:34 theorbtwo perlbot, seen autrijus?
15:34 jabbot theorbtwo: autrijus was seen on Fri Mar 25 19:45:27 2005
15:36 PerlJam schoch: Are you writing one or are you looking for some other kind of interest?
15:37 schoch i'm interested in starting to hack up some perl6 but there isn't a good beginner guide, i read someone wrote a book with wiki and it worked out well
15:37 schoch i suppose i'm thinking out loud a bit
15:37 jabbot pugs - 1147 - Ported Algorithm::MarkovChain 0.06 (comp
15:37 jabbot pugs - 1146 - eval{} -> try{}, not catch{}. Fixed.
15:37 schoch but it would be nice
15:37 stevan schoch: that is Scott Walters
15:38 stevan schoch: he wrote Perl6 Now
15:38 schoch ahhh, memory failed me on what the book was
15:38 stevan and the wiki you are thinking of is http://www.perldesignpatterns.com (i think)
15:39 schoch ya something like that but more pedestrian
15:40 schoch and free
15:40 stevan schoch: perldesignpatterns is free
15:40 schoch PN6 isn't though
15:40 stevan you could start here http://pugs.kwiki.org
15:41 stevan make a "intro to perl6
15:41 stevan page
15:41 ninereasons seems like wiki is a good way to write a "beginners book" about a language that's still in gestation
15:41 schoch i need to cut my teeth on the language a bit first :)
15:42 stevan schoch: I recommend the synopsis
15:42 stevan reading them that is
15:42 theorbtwo I recommend the exgeises as well.
15:43 schoch ya, i've taken a vacation from coding for about 6 months but reading all the developments has my attention.  
15:47 schoch where does the wiki live?  it is a bit slow
15:47 stevan schoch: I have no idea
15:48 schoch fennel.oreillynet.com interesting
15:49 theorbtwo pugs.kwiki.org
15:49 masak has joined #perl6
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15:57 jabbot pugs - 1149 - removing the author list from t/README,
15:57 jabbot pugs - 1148 - adding a modules/README
16:06 justatheory has joined #perl6
16:09 Corion has joined #perl6
16:09 Corion re
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16:17 jabbot pugs - 1151 - Backlink fixes.
16:17 jabbot pugs - 1150 - Ported most of Algorithm::NaiveBayes 0.0
16:17 nothingmuch has quit IRC ()
16:18 stevan iblech++ # << the man is INSANE
16:18 stevan iblech, if you are listening, email me
16:18 stevan please :)
16:21 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
16:23 chip who's doing all these ports anyway?
16:25 stevan iblech
16:25 masak :)
16:25 stevan he is doing like 5+ a day
16:27 jabbot pugs - 1152 - Started a "How to port Perl 5 modules to
16:27 stevan nice
16:30 stevan that last commit was the HOWTO i asked him to write :)
16:30 stevan iblech++
16:30 stevan iblech++
16:30 stevan iblech++
16:31 stevan schoch: if you are looking to learn perl6, in particular the OO stuff, I would look at iblech's work and modules/PORTING_HOWTO
16:33 masak has left
16:35 Corion 110/2935 subtests failed on Win2k on 1152
16:35 Corion ... maybe I should set up an hourly smoke for Pugs/Win2k :)
16:35 stevan Corion: sounds about right
16:36 stevan Corion: nothingmuch, gaal, theorbtwo and working on some smoke testing stuff
16:37 Corion stevan: Ah - cool. My "smoke testing" stuff would mostly consist of C<< svn up; nmake clean && perl Makefile.PL && nmake test > log >>  and some POE::Irc magic to send a new message about it :)
16:37 Corion ... but if others implement it for me, all the better :)
16:37 stevan Corion: they are working on something using YAML output from Test::Harness
16:38 Corion stevan: Ah. Well - I would just run everything under TEST_VERBOSE, but I guess they also want to improve coverage/blame
16:38 stevan I think that is part of the idea
16:38 stevan I was in on it earlier, but have not been keeping up in the current plans
16:39 stevan my $work got in the way
16:40 Corion In theory, my openfoundry.org login should work for svn too, shouldn't it?
16:40 schoch stevan thanks for the pointer
16:40 stevan Corion: I have no idea
16:40 stevan schoch: no problem
16:40 Corion stevan: You're no committer?
16:40 stevan schoch: reading the tests is also a good thing
16:41 stevan Corion: I am, but I have been for a while, and to be honest I dont remember ever using a login for svn
16:41 Corion stevan: Ah :)
16:41 stevan try it,.. if it doesnt work, let me know
16:41 Steve_p Corion, you have to have a loging the first time you commit
16:42 Steve_p s/loging/login/
16:42 stevan after that it never asks again ( did I mention how much I love SVN )
16:42 Corion Steve_p: Yeah, except that it doesn't seem to work. But I'm now checking out the tree with my credentials, and maybe that is the magic I've been missing it :)
16:43 Steve_p You don't need the password to checkout :)
16:44 Corion Steve_p: But I need it for commit, but it still doesn't work. Oh well.
16:44 stevan Corion, what is your openfoundry login>
16:45 Corion stevan: corion
16:45 stevan I am not seeing you on the list http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/?Queue=270
16:46 theorbtwo Odd...
16:47 theorbtwo Corion, did you do the registration process from the email?
16:47 theorbtwo You still show with no username and status=unregistered from the admin screen.
16:47 Corion theorbtwo: Yes, I did (I can even log in)
16:47 jabbot pugs - 1153 - Finished porting Algorithm::NaiveBayes 0
16:47 stevan Corion: you are listed as unregistered in the admin
16:47 Corion Weird. I'll register again
16:47 stevan for [email@hidden.address]
16:48 Corion I have the "registration complete" email here. Aaaah - but I changed the email to [email@hidden.address] - that was my error I think!
16:48 Corion "pugs-commit@corion.net" that is, even ...
16:48 theorbtwo Oh, then I'll add that user to pugs.
16:49 stevan theorbtwo: I got it, I am right htere
16:49 Corion theorbtwo: I'm sorry for the confusion there - I didn't know the email address was tied to anything other than the point of contact :)
16:49 theorbtwo Already done.
16:49 stevan ok Corion try now
16:49 Corion Yay! Thanks all! :)))
16:50 theorbtwo Oh, well, apparently we both did it, but he is listed as a user now.
16:50 theorbtwo Cool.  Put yourself in AUTHORS, please.
16:50 stevan theorbtwo: its a John Woo moment
16:50 Corion r1154, already done :)
16:50 theorbtwo Nifty.
16:50 Corion I guess putting oneself into the AUTHORS file is the intelligence test that everybody needs to pass when becoming committer :)
16:51 Corion I want to add a subdirectory to t/ called "pugsrun" (like "perlrun"), in which I place my todo_is tests for the command line options (-e , -p and -n ) - any better ideas ?
16:52 theorbtwo Not really.
16:52 stevan sounds good to me
16:52 theorbtwo Test also echo "? 12" | pugs, if you can figure out how.
16:53 Corion theorbtwo: I cribbed most of the test set up from t/examples/examples.t, which uses system() and output redirection, which is OK at the moment I think
16:57 Corion Ooops. Committed before doing a make test run ...
16:57 jabbot pugs - 1155 - Added todo tests for multiple -e argumen
16:57 jabbot pugs - 1154 - Added CORION to AUTHORS
17:01 chip Perl6::Subs is on PAUSE (yay!) but hasn't propagated to CPAN just yet (boo!)
17:01 chip anybody who wants it, msg me your address and I'll mail it
17:02 stevan chip++
17:04 theorbtwo chip++ indeed
17:04 * theorbtwo wonders...
17:04 chip C< sub foo ($a of Int where { $_ > 0 }, SomeClass +$b is required, OtherClass +$c) { ... } >
17:05 chip yes, that works today
17:05 theorbtwo Can it be used to progmatically generate signatures for funky things, like operators?
17:05 theorbtwo C< sub circimfix:{'>><<'} ($a, $b is Operator, $c) { ... } > ?
17:06 chip heh.  This is a Perl 5 source filter, so it can only implement the features that work in Perl 5
17:06 theorbtwo Oh.
17:07 chip I can imagine an extension of it where you can define operators and P6::Subs can create mangled names and generate the C<use overload> statement for you, though.
17:07 chip theorbtwo: For example, you can have optional parameters or named parameters, but not both
17:07 theorbtwo Hmm, that should be possible with p5... shouldn't it?
17:07 chip optional-positional, rather.  Named parameters come in optional and required flavors.
17:08 chip theorbtwo: where do you start grabbing pairs?
17:08 theorbtwo Oh, but you can't figure out if it was foo => 'bar', or 'foo', 'bar'.
17:08 theorbtwo Gotcha.
17:08 chip yeah
17:08 chip on the other hand, you can have named params with a slurpy hash for others, if you're inclined.
17:09 chip method new ( $class: +$name, *%opts ) {}     is pretty much like    sub new { my ($class,%args) = @_; my $name = delete $args{name}; ... }
17:10 khisanth_ has joined #perl6
17:12 Corion Ooops - in (current) Pugs, is C<< my @examples = ('foo bar', 'baz bar'); >> a syntax error?
17:16 theorbtwo It shouldn't be...
17:16 theorbtwo Works for me.
17:17 elmex has joined #perl6
17:17 theorbtwo H, util/yaml_harness.pl was missing a ;... naughty people, checking in without running it first!
17:17 jabbot pugs - 1156 - * Beginning of a Pugs Class Metamodel, c
17:19 autrijus mugwump++ # class metamodel.
17:19 autrijus metametamodel, really.
17:19 stevan very nice
17:20 theorbtwo Hmm, actually, has more problems then that... gaal?
17:23 Corion 110/2938 subtests failed on Win2k/r1157
17:24 theorbtwo Look at the end of the /topic, Corion.
17:25 Corion Ooops.
17:26 Corion Hmm - I found where my error was - and I think it's a bug in Pugs.
17:26 Khisanth has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:27 jabbot pugs - 1158 - * Change poetry for Prim.hs because it's
17:27 jabbot pugs - 1157 - Added TODO test for -p
17:27 pasteling "Corion" at 217.86.56.202 pasted "Syntax error with list parsing and trailing commas" (12 lines, 262B) at http://sial.org/pbot/8614
17:28 autrijus training comma is a known todo. :)
17:28 Corion Autrijus: Ah - good that I didn't work on a test for that then :))
17:31 autrijus check if one is there :)
17:32 Corion autrijus: Yep - in t/data_types/array.t (where I should have checked first ...)
17:37 autrijus that's fine :)
17:37 jabbot pugs - 1159 - Ported File::Basename 2.73 (complete wit
17:38 autrijus Jouke: you can do NCI and pugs will be able to inline that NCI into haskell.
17:38 autrijus or you can do Haskell FFI and I'll make Parrot call it via NVINCI.
17:38 autrijus they are isomorphic.
17:39 stevan iblech is at it again
17:39 autrijus journal up. zzz &
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17:54 dada bye all
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17:56 chip Say ... if I use Lexical::Alias, I could implement C<is rw>
17:56 chip urqe, but not for named
17:58 schoch hey autrijus
17:59 schoch just wanted to say par++, what a great tool
17:59 nmcfarl has joined #perl6
18:04 chip Anybody know if C<is ro> is supposed to be allowed on parametes?  It's redundant with the default, but still....
18:05 stevan chip: i think it is, but dont quote me on it
18:07 theorbtwo I think so too...
18:07 elmex has quit IRC ("rofl")
18:09 chip OK
18:10 chip Lexical::Alias rocks .. and it occurs to me that I could use it to spell arrays as C<Array @a> even in Perl 5, that's cool
18:10 chip too many hacks, too little time
18:22 ninereasons it doesn't seem right that it works to say "my %h=<a 1 b 2> ; my @a = %h; say @a.keys;"
18:22 ninereasons if it's not going to work to say "my @a=<a 1 b 2> ; say @a.keys;"
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18:38 theorbtwo http://tcts.fpms.ac.be/synthesis/mbrola.html is pretty good, combined with festival.
18:46 theorbtwo Oh, wrong chan.
18:49 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
18:49 * nothingmuch wonders how good/bad would a list context join be
18:49 nothingmuch join(",", 1 .. 2) -> (1, ",", 2, ",", 3)
18:51 Corion nothingmuch: Isn't that C<< zip( "," x @list, @list) >> ? Not really needed IMO, and you can write it like that.
18:51 * nothingmuch wonders if you can hyper pair
18:51 theorbtwo I can't think of a shorter way to write it when just writing the join...
18:51 Corion nothingmuch: But it's convenient if you're reimplementing the HTML generation of CGI.pm :)
18:52 nothingmuch map { *$_ } (@list >>=> ",")
18:52 nothingmuch but then you have the dangling "," that I want to avoid
18:53 nothingmuch zip("," x (+@list - 1); @list);
18:53 nothingmuch (note greater list comma, since it's multi dim)
18:54 * theorbtwo still wants to know what's so bad about join(',', 1..10)
18:54 Corion theorbtwo: That doesn't return a list :)
18:54 metaperl__ has joined #perl6
18:54 nothingmuch and if it theoretically returns a list, i know at least my code will break
18:54 nothingmuch i use join in list context a lot
18:54 nothingmuch since i know it's always scalar
18:55 nothingmuch then again, join could always be translated to ~join
18:55 theorbtwo Oh, I see what you mean.
18:55 theorbtwo You want to create a list such that when you join it with '', you get '1, 2, 3, 4'
18:56 theorbtwo I'm thinking that you really don't want to do that.
18:56 stevan hey naddamucho, Dah-Orb Numbah 2
18:56 nothingmuch ?
18:56 theorbtwo Having a good Good Friday, are ya?
18:56 stevan File::Spec is done :)
18:56 theorbtwo Stevan++
18:56 nothingmuch yay
18:56 nothingmuch stevan++
18:56 stevan theorbtwo: not yet
18:56 stevan I am running make test right now to make sure all is well
18:57 stevan and I talked to the mysterious mr. iblech
18:57 stevan he is going to direct some of his boundless energy on the t/oo stuff
18:58 * nothingmuch hopes iblech is not wasting vacation time or something like that on computers
18:58 stevan yes he is :)
18:58 theorbtwo Implementing it, or completing the tests?
18:58 stevan he said he is going skiing next week though
18:58 stevan theorbtwo: writing tests for it
18:58 rgs chip: there is an idea floating in the air, about implementing lexical aliases in perl 5.10
18:58 stevan I figure he knows as much about perl6 OO as the Damian/larry now
18:59 metaperl_ has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
19:01 stevan you know one thing I love about perl6
19:01 stevan with function signatures, writing docs becomes so much eaiser
19:01 PerlJam has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:01 stevan its practically self documenting at times
19:02 rgs that's java all over again !
19:02 rgs sorry.
19:02 stevan rgs: kinda :)
19:03 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
19:03 rgs the PORTING_HOWTO is cool
19:05 chip rgs: I remember ... I was one of the pushers.  I proposed making C<\$a> an lvalue.
19:05 rgs chip: aah. like this: my (\$alias) = \$variable;
19:05 chip rgs: yeah
19:05 rgs send tuits :)
19:05 chip my ($a,$b) = \(@_)
19:06 rgs er, missing \ ?
19:06 rgs my \($a, $b) = \(@_)
19:07 jabbot pugs - 1160 - Added tests for subtypes.
19:07 chip oopsie.  yes
19:10 nothingmuch what is a nice way to split a string into chunks
19:10 nothingmuch with the splitting done on numeric offsets?
19:11 nothingmuch @offsets = (2, 4, 7); "the quick brown" -> "th", "e ", "qui", "ck brown";
19:12 Corion nothingmuch: Unpack ?
19:12 cognominal has joined #perl6
19:12 nothingmuch with unpack i can do 'th, 'the ', 'the qui', etc with backtracks and a$offset
19:12 nothingmuch ofcourse, i could do this in a loop
19:13 nothingmuch for (my $i = 1; $i < @offsets; $i++){
19:13 nothingmuch unshift @offset, 0 first
19:13 Corion nothingmuch: Ah, now I see ... Well, you could convert this into a sorted list and then use the differences between the items as length items to A.
19:13 Corion unpack will become soo much better as we have Unicode chars as templates for pack/unpack :)
19:14 Khisanth U?
19:14 theorbtwo Or, for that matter, with substr.
19:14 Corion Anybody can tell me how I match (in Haskell) in the function signature against a Named Field of a parameter passed in
19:15 Corion (I'm passing around a "hash" (constructed out of named fields), and I want to test some values in the signature directly)
19:16 nothingmuch errm?
19:16 Corion nothingmuch: pasting ...
19:17 chip nothingmuch: I think a for loop with substr will do it
19:17 jabbot pugs - 1163 - making Makefile.PL into Makefile.PL.loca
19:17 jabbot pugs - 1162 - * Submethod tests landed.
19:17 jabbot pugs - 1161 - File::Spec is done, tests and all; howev
19:17 awwaiid nothingmuch, in perl5 sub grab {if($_[2]){$a=shift; (substr($a,shift,$_[0]), grab($a,@_))}
19:18 chip my $copy = $str; map { substr($str, $_, length($str), '') } reverse sort @positions
19:18 awwaiid then call grab("my string here",0,5,7,10)
19:18 awwaiid nice, chip
19:18 nothingmuch $_[2]?
19:18 pasteling "Corion" at 217.86.56.202 pasted "Using Named Fields in a function signature" (41 lines, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8617
19:18 chip make that sort { $b <=> $a } positions
19:19 awwaiid third argument (in @_)?
19:19 Corion I really like function signatures - they take out a lot of "if" cases. But they make the "program flow" harder to follow, as you now have to look across several functions to see the state machine behind it again...
19:19 gaal good morrow
19:20 nothingmuch oh, oops
19:20 nothingmuch i see
19:21 * nothingmuch didn't notice awwaiid recursed
19:21 nothingmuch now if only i had a proper zip
19:21 nothingmuch oh, well, it doesn't help either
19:22 Corion gaal: Did the param-parsing in Perl go forward / is there anything to do ? I'm getting no love from Haskell there :-)
19:22 gaal ah
19:22 gaal er, no thanks for the nudge, i'll email thedamian
19:23 Corion gaal: Heh - I got a small step forward with the parsing/reworking, but then I tried to generalize my small multiple-dash-e success and got caught up in this ugly Named Fields thing... And I'm looking at all the wrong documentation ...
19:24 nothingmuch Corion: i don't see what you're trying to do
19:25 nothingmuch but in general
19:25 nothingmuch both must be changed to
19:25 nothingmuch _run args env { oneliner = arg }; etc
19:25 nothingmuch "values" in haskell are not raelly that
19:25 nothingmuch they're immutable
19:25 nothingmuch if you take env and pass it { oneliner = arg } then it returns an env which is the same, except oneliner = arg
19:27 Corion nothingmuch: Yeah - that's what I want to do on the rhs. But I also want to check for a value of env{oneliner} on the lhs - I'm fine with copying stuff around :) In Perl I'd want C<$arg{oneliner} eq ''>
19:27 Corion ... but how to do that on the Haskell side of things ?
19:27 nothingmuch ah
19:28 nothingmuch _run (("-e"):frag:rest) env | oneliner env = "" = foo| otherwise
19:28 nothingmuch sorry
19:28 nothingmuch | otherwise = bar
19:28 chip Having read the translation of URI I have two comments.  First, :scheme is misspelled as :sheme in one place.  Second, I WANT TO USE THIS LANGUAGE.  
19:29 nothingmuch | lets you put a case at the pattern matching level, sort of
19:29 Corion nothingmuch: Ah - I'll stumble in that direction then :)
19:29 Corion chip: Then kick the pumpking so he pushes the development further :)
19:30 Khisanth but don't kick too hard or you might put him out of commision!
19:30 gaal commandline = GetoptDeclare.parse <- getArgs :)
19:30 Corion gaal: :))
19:31 nothingmuch stevan: ping
19:31 stevan nothingmuch: hey
19:31 chip Corion: oh, right, like I need to speed Leo *up*
19:31 chip er, yeah
19:31 Khisanth gaal: Haskell?
19:31 nothingmuch SEE session realy quick
19:32 stevan nothingmuch: I am actually just heading off to lunch
19:32 gaal Khisanth: embedded perl6 :)
19:32 stevan really quick?
19:32 nothingmuch i just want to show you what i ended up doing
19:32 stevan ok
19:32 nothingmuch and wanted to make sure it stayed sort of readable
19:32 stevan one sec
19:32 Khisanth gaal: if that snippet is perl6 ...
19:32 nothingmuch but it's not that important
19:33 nothingmuch Khisanth: that's not p6
19:33 gaal yet
19:33 stevan nothingmuch:
19:33 nothingmuch it's how autrijus wanted the haskell side of pugs to parse it's options
19:33 stevan :P itchy trigger finger
19:34 nothingmuch stevan: ok, this is what's going on:
19:34 nothingmuch for every synopsis we collect the backlinks
19:34 nothingmuch find them with the regex
19:34 nothingmuch remember where they matched
19:34 nothingmuch and then only after we're done, destroy the text data
19:34 nothingmuch splitting it up
19:35 nothingmuch oops, wrong file
19:37 jabbot pugs - 1165 - Fixed typo in call to Test::write_log
19:37 jabbot pugs - 1164 - Added Roles tests.
19:40 nothingmuch one last todo:
19:40 nothingmuch make regexes match nested <code>
19:40 nothingmuch and across pre, or whatever
19:40 stevan I think we should not link to the code
19:40 stevan only to the text
19:41 nothingmuch see S06
19:41 nothingmuch L<S06/"The &?BLOCK routine" /\$\?BLOCKLABEL contains the label of the current block, if any/>
19:41 nothingmuch The &?BLOCK routine
19:42 nothingmuch that won't ever match
19:42 nothingmuch because it's <code>$?BLOCKLABEL</code> contains...
19:42 * nothingmuch suddenly wants to listen to Lamb
19:42 stevan I see
19:42 stevan Lamb?
19:42 nothingmuch What Sound
19:42 nothingmuch google for it
19:43 * nothingmuch will hand out mp3s if you promise that you buy it if you keep listening
19:43 stevan lampstar.net?
19:43 nothingmuch i don't think they're successful enough
19:43 stevan s/p/b
19:43 nothingmuch or heck, you can just decide if it's fair to buy
19:44 * nothingmuch shouldn't allow himself to be so self-righteouous
19:44 nothingmuch and yes, tr/p/b/ and the site is correct
19:44 * stevan is listening to the clips on the site
19:46 * stevan thinks its ok, but not his style so he goes back to listening to Public Enemy :)
19:46 * nmcfarl is listening though
19:46 nmcfarl lamb was a good idea
19:47 stevan ok lunch time,..
19:47 jabbot pugs - 1167 - missing semicolon, oops
19:47 jabbot pugs - 1166 - * Added Traits tests.
19:47 stevan have fun all &
19:50 nothingmuch ciao stevan...
19:51 Khisanth hmm "First, :scheme is misspelled as :sheme in one place." <- still the same old @EXPORT stuff?
19:51 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status/
19:51 nothingmuch superscripted regex skip backlinks
19:52 nothingmuch r1168
19:52 elmex has joined #perl6
19:53 Corion Schmorp !? Hi :)
19:53 gaal nothingmuch: it strips whitespace /indendtation?
19:53 nothingmuch no
19:54 gaal http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status/t/builtins/undef.html
19:54 nothingmuch ook
19:54 gaal nothing's indented
19:54 nothingmuch that code is theorbtwo's fault
19:54 gaal <g>
19:54 nothingmuch i think it needs to unexpand
19:55 gaal "unexpand"?
19:55 nothingmuch ... at 4 spaces, naturally
19:55 nothingmuch ;-)
19:55 nothingmuch errm, expand
19:55 gaal oh, it's just matter of s/\t/" " x $ONE_TRUE_TAB_WIDTH/ ?
19:55 theorbtwo Oh, there's some missing pre tags.
19:56 theorbtwo I don't do anything special with tabs.  HTML4.01 suggests (but does not require), that they use 8-char line-up tabs.
19:56 gaal nothingmuch: i don't believe that topic almost started on perl-il *again*!
19:57 * nothingmuch hasn't read perl-il for a while
19:57 nothingmuch migo vs. yuval?
19:57 gaal in that case i'd suggest we do one of the following:
19:57 gaal 1. recommend one tab style in t/README
19:57 jabbot pugs - 1168 - Backlinks skip with regexes now. A few q
19:57 nothingmuch the reason i use tabs is that it's less work on a stupid editor, that doesn't have indent/outdent
19:58 nothingmuch and the reason i use 4 is that it's the default most places
19:58 nothingmuch aside from that i don't care
19:58 gaal 2. ask people to put in either cperl or vim  signatures of the tab style they like in their tests, and parse it
19:58 nothingmuch so should it be 8?
19:58 arturaz has joined #perl6
19:58 nothingmuch gaal: nay nay!
19:58 gaal i think i prefer #2, if only to avoid having that discussion again
19:58 nothingmuch too much metadata overhead
19:59 nothingmuch maybe if we use Vim coloring it could obey it
19:59 nothingmuch that's what i want to do to tests next
19:59 gaal if we do, it would.
19:59 nothingmuch ok, so that's for free
19:59 nothingmuch and it'll do the default
19:59 nothingmuch but for now i'm using Text::Tabs @ 4
20:00 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("CGI:IRC 0.5.4 (2004/01/29)")
20:00 gaal fine by me, if only becaise that's my personal preference too :)
20:00 theorbtwo Don't forget to put in the missing pre tags!
20:00 Jouke has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:00 gaal nm: what's the status of your test coordinates patch?
20:01 arturaz has left "Leaving"
20:01 gaal asking mostly out of curiosity, also wondering if i need the harness to do anything special to activate it
20:10 gaal i'm doing a clean up of tests, replacing parsefails with clean fails(). what's the status of Dialects/perlego/sigilless? it's very todo, right?
20:11 lucs has quit IRC ("...")
20:11 Corion has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 0.10.1/20041001]")
20:11 gaal ping Juerd
20:11 nothingmuch test coordinates?
20:11 nothingmuch his own perl6, that is differen
20:11 nothingmuch Dialects is something Juerd is going to do
20:11 nothingmuch maybe better
20:12 gaal nm, i just parsefailed on your last four lines.
20:12 chip Khisanth: "Same old export stuff"?  What's that?
20:13 Khisanth chip: I mean is @EXPORT and @EXPORT_OK going to remain the ways things are exported?
20:14 chip Oh, no, that's all C<is export> etc. now.   C< :foo > is Perl 6 for C< $self->_foo > if leading _ means "private"
20:14 gaal Khisanth, see modules/README
20:14 gaal er
20:14 gaal moduiles_PORTING_HOWTO
20:14 gaal i can't spell :)
20:14 theorbtwo http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=442402
20:14 Khisanth gaal: that is EXACTLY the reason I asked :p
20:14 gaal lol
20:15 Khisanth sometimes hunting that one error where you have two letters flipped is quite a pain
20:15 chip I look forward to warnings on :missppelled
20:16 * theorbtwo looks forward to a highly intelligent spell-checker for code.
20:16 nothingmuch darn it
20:16 nothingmuch aspell knows how to mind it's own business
20:16 theorbtwo (One that knows that the name of a declared sub cannot be misspelled -- except in the declaration.)
20:16 gaal Eclipse JDT is pretty good for JAva
20:17 nothingmuch but won't work for runtogether words
20:17 chip nothingmuch: "*its* own business"
20:17 * nothingmuch uses apostrophe for his/her etc automatically
20:17 nothingmuch hard to stop myself
20:17 nothingmuch sorry
20:18 nothingmuch theorbtwo: you fix it
20:18 nothingmuch i don't know the semantics of tt
20:18 nothingmuch and Text::Tabs isn't DWIMing in that context
20:18 nothingmuch i'm too tired
20:18 nothingmuch and set the charset to utf-8 while you're at it ;-)
20:19 theorbtwo ci what you've got.
20:19 nothingmuch 2 lines:
20:19 nothingmuch err, 3
20:19 nothingmuch use Text::Tabs;
20:19 theorbtwo Er, wait a sec -- we're working with the .jmm. version, right.
20:19 nothingmuch and then expand($text); and expand($rest);
20:19 nothingmuch yep
20:19 theorbtwo OK.
20:20 theorbtwo We probably ought to do something about that, like rm'ing the other one and mv'ing the jmm one on top of it.
20:20 theorbtwo But I'll leave that to people who care more.
20:20 theorbtwo But .jmm. is rather inaccurate.
20:20 gaal jmm?
20:21 theorbtwo James Michael Mastros.  Me.
20:21 gaal ah :)
20:21 metaperl__ has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
20:22 theorbtwo Anyway: sleep well.
20:23 lightstep has joined #perl6
20:23 nothingmuch hola lightstep
20:23 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Blue-shifted -- the way to travel... [Time wasted online: 4hrs 33mins 41secs]")
20:23 * nothingmuch is not tired sleepy
20:23 theorbtwo Ah.
20:23 nothingmuch tired of sitting
20:23 nothingmuch but thanks
20:23 nothingmuch svn blame says about 40% is yours
20:24 nothingmuch and i'd say lots of the lines that are mine are just modified
20:24 lightstep good night
20:26 nothingmuch theorbtwo: please do a code review
20:26 nothingmuch last time my code was a bit too spaghetti for you
20:26 nothingmuch i think this isn't much better
20:27 * nothingmuch would like it better abstracted, perhaps
20:28 nothingmuch anyway, i'm off to get cleaned up
20:30 gaal r1169 makes all tests *run*, sticking to the "FIXME parsefail" convention
20:31 gaal nm+to2+stevan, you're right about not needing to go through hoops to capture tests blowing up
20:34 lightstep has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
20:35 theorbtwo t_index/t/builtins/strings/length.html looks horrible, but that's because of the BIDI, I think...
20:35 nothingmuch utf8 is your friend
20:36 gaal what editor are you using?
20:36 gaal looks fine to me
20:36 theorbtwo The HTMLification, under firefox.
20:36 gaal ah :/
20:37 Odin-LAP has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:37 jabbot pugs - 1170 - Oops, missing parentheses. Fixed.
20:37 jabbot pugs - 1169 - replaced all remaining hard parsefails w
20:37 theorbtwo It looks... umm, acceptable... under xemacs.
20:38 viirya has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:38 lukhnos has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:38 gaal um
20:38 gaal http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status/t/builtins/strings/
20:38 gaal what is this showing?
20:38 gaal hahaha
20:38 gaal index.html
20:39 gaal got me for a moment :)
20:42 Qiang neat. perl2html ?
20:43 lukhnos has joined #perl6
20:44 gaal Qiang: t/catalog_tests.jmm.pl
20:44 gaal s/t/util/ actually
20:45 lightstep has joined #perl6
20:45 theorbtwo r1171 fixes some bugs in that.
20:45 theorbtwo Allo, Qiang, lukhnos, lightstep.
20:45 lightstep olla
20:45 Qiang :)
20:47 theorbtwo nm, whats your best guess as to what's causing all the regex L<>s that don't resolve?
20:51 nothingmuch bad regexes
20:51 nothingmuch title case is funny in synopses
20:52 theorbtwo Anyone else working on it would have to have an interest extending from the insanity of Perl 5 parser internals all the way to various deep Perl 6 design issues, and I don't think anyone else besides me has the requisite multiple personality disorder.
20:52 theorbtwo Oh.
20:52 nothingmuch there's also my bad regex
20:52 nothingmuch es
20:52 nothingmuch in smartmatch
20:52 nothingmuch there's "Pointy subs"
20:52 nothingmuch which can't be linked
20:55 gaal escape them?
20:55 nothingmuch i tried that
20:55 nothingmuch didn't work naively
20:55 gaal escape them, not naively?
20:57 jabbot pugs - 1171 - yaml_harness: fix usage with no params
20:58 nothingmuch gaal: errmm, later maybe
20:58 ninereasons S29 is interesting.
20:58 nothingmuch s/later maybe/patches welcome/
21:05 gaal nothingmuch: example of something that fails please?
21:05 nothingmuch ?
21:06 gaal do you have a failing test? :)
21:06 nothingmuch colored test thingies?
21:06 gaal no no
21:06 gaal for the regexp
21:08 nothingmuch uhm...?
21:08 nothingmuch i don't get it
21:08 gaal since i don't knwo the code you're talking about
21:08 gaal can you supply me with a test case, so i can work on a patch
21:08 nothingmuch ah
21:08 nothingmuch errm
21:09 nothingmuch t/data_types/anon_block.t
21:09 nothingmuch it contains such a link
21:10 nothingmuch the bix m{}x regex in util/catalog_tests.jmm.pl handles it
21:11 nothingmuch s/bix/big/
21:16 schoch has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
21:21 * nothingmuch goes to iron a shirt
21:23 sahadev_ has joined #perl6
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21:27 jabbot pugs - 1172 - Added tests for caller() and want().
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21:57 jabbot pugs - 1173 - set svn:ignore *.hi
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22:17 jabbot pugs - 1174 - Added tests for parameterized roles.
22:27 jabbot pugs - 1178 - Found a bug in S12:
22:27 jabbot pugs - 1177 - Added tests for roles conflict resolutio
22:27 jabbot pugs - 1176 - Test correct "return value" of given.
22:27 jabbot pugs - 1175 - documentation typos
22:41 chip Any reason there's a %MY:: but not a %CALLER:: nor an %OUTER:: ?
22:42 autrijus is there no %CALLER:: ?
22:42 autrijus it's unspecced, true, but I always thought it's there.
22:43 autrijus get larry to spec all three? :)
22:43 rgs mmh %CALLER::. breaks scopes
22:45 crysflame hi, autrijus
22:46 autrijus hey.
22:46 chip tied, presumptively
22:46 chip or the moral equivalent
22:46 autrijus rgs: $CALLER::var already breaks scope
22:46 stevan hey autrijus
22:47 autrijus hey stevan. can you do me a big favor
22:47 autrijus and do the impossibly difficult task that is ChangeLogs ?
22:47 stevan I can if its quick or doesnt require me to do it right now
22:47 stevan autrijus: I can do that,.. when do you need them by?
22:47 autrijus I need it in 30 hrs :)
22:47 autrijus preferably 24
22:47 jabbot pugs - 1179 - Added parameterized traits and delegatio
22:47 stevan autrijus: I will get then to you in 15
22:47 stevan :P
22:48 stevan BTW - File::Spec is done
22:48 autrijus my talk about it is 32 hours from now :)
22:48 stevan and tested
22:48 autrijus !!!
22:48 autrijus er. like. wow.
22:48 stevan its ugly
22:48 stevan but it works
22:48 stevan I talked to iblech too
22:48 autrijus pugs are supposed to be like that :)
22:49 stevan got him to direct some of that energy to t/oo/*
22:49 autrijus good.
22:49 stevan and maybe work with me to port File::basename
22:49 autrijus I think I'll call 6.2.0 right after 6.0.14
22:49 stevan I think that could work now
22:49 autrijus yay
22:49 stevan autrijus: I think that would work
22:49 autrijus we're already reasonably complete
22:49 autrijus I need to go thru your buglist after conference
22:50 stevan also,.. nm, theorb and gaal made much progress on the test catalog and yaml harness
22:50 autrijus I saw that :)
22:50 * autrijus has read backlogs
22:50 stevan at some point we are going to make you a TODO list maker
22:50 stevan ah,.. didnt know how much you had read
22:50 autrijus a TODO maker will be insanely great.
22:51 stevan :)
22:51 stevan do you want me to TODO all the tests as well?
22:51 stevan for the release
22:51 autrijus that'd be best.
22:52 stevan oh, and something to tell ingy when you see him,.. the Makefile.PL in Test.pm installs to my /Library/perl directory on Mac OS X
22:52 stevan which is why I didn't activate the File::Spec one, as it overwrites my perl5 install
22:53 autrijus ew, wow
22:53 autrijus ok, will get him to fix it
22:53 autrijus ideeally after his talk
22:53 stevan ok
22:53 stevan alright, dinner time here, I will do the changelog and TODO-ing tonight
22:53 stevan later &
22:54 stevan autrijus: when you have a second... look in t/oo/*
22:54 stevan iblech is unstoppable :)
22:55 stevan and and he wrote that modules/HOW_TO as well,.. very nice
22:55 autrijus how many persons is iblech anyway?
22:55 autrijus is he a consortium? :)
22:55 stevan one,.. on school vacation :)
22:55 stevan he is the german equivilant of you
22:55 autrijus that is amazingly cool.
22:55 autrijus :D
22:55 stevan ok gotta go now for real, before my wife has my head  :)
22:55 autrijus . o O (One day he'll learn haskell and make those tests pass)
22:55 autrijus stevan++ # thanks!
22:56 stevan autrijus++ :)
23:03 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
23:07 jabbot pugs - 1180 - Added enum tests.
23:08 autrijus iblect++ # Unstoppable
23:08 autrijus iblech++ # even
23:12 autrijus 20 modules in 2 days and 212 OO tests.
23:18 Khisanth only 7779 modules to go? :)
23:18 autrijus only 79 to go before we have good idea how p5-to-p6 should look.
23:19 autrijus the automatic translator thing :)
23:20 Khisanth ah so it's not going to be p5 code->bytecode->some B:: module->p6 code? :)
23:25 gaal hi, i exchanged emails with Damian about Getopt::Declare and here's a summary (in the hope Corion reads the backlog):
23:26 gaal He thinks the module is technically capable but probably much too slow for anything but a prototype. He has something planned that sould be better, but is very busy in the near future.
23:26 gaal technically capable of parsing the perl command line, that is
23:29 luqui has joined #perl6
23:29 gaal looks like we can try embedding the p5 version, if we want a proof of concept, but porting it to p6 might be a bit of a big job for something that won't keep :(
23:34 gaal alternatively we could keep doing it in haskell, though that means we have to design it first :)
23:35 Limbic_Region autrijus - why aren't you sleeping?
23:35 Limbic_Region or have you woken up already?
23:37 jabbot pugs - 1181 - Added tests for C<is build {...}> and C<
23:47 jabbot pugs - 1182 - Added class and class|instance method te
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