Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-03-27

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 kungfuftr stevan: the output wanted?
00:02 stevan it should duplicate the split version
00:05 metaperl has joined #perl6
00:05 kungfuftr bah, can't seem to get it
00:06 stevan kungfuftr: not a big deal
00:07 kungfuftr stevan: iirc, the last time i did it, it required fooling perl, so not hugely easy now that it comes to mind
00:12 stevan this /(?:[A-Z]<\s+|[A-Z]<|\s+>|>|\w+|\s+)/g is capturing all the peices
00:12 stevan I can just glue them back together
00:18 kungfuftr bah, nearly
00:36 frequency- has joined #perl6
00:46 * nothingmuch would like a spare perl6.vim file, if anyone has it
00:47 nothingmuch can't reach luqui's site
00:47 frequency- has left
00:49 kungfuftr stevan: yar, split is a perl opcode... erple
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00:51 stevan kungfuftr: it actually doesnt matter now, because I just realized that rx:perl5{} only works in boolean context anyway
00:51 stevan so I cannot get the split values
00:52 kungfuftr ah, okay.. that not a bug?
00:52 stevan it is a bug
00:52 stevan or rather an un-implemented feature
00:52 stevan regexp support is very limited right now
00:52 kungfuftr =0)
00:53 stevan bascially another more than simple match and substitution is not support
00:58 Darren_Duncan another SQL::Routine commit -- still a lot of translation to go ...
00:58 stevan hey Darren_Duncan
00:58 Darren_Duncan I must leave computer for 1.5 hours, request at least an hour afterwards before release
00:58 Darren_Duncan hey Stevan
00:58 metaperl has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
00:59 Darren_Duncan FYI, I still have more to do before you have at it
00:59 stevan Darren_Duncan: I figued that
00:59 * kungfuftr still building ghc 6.4
00:59 stevan Darren_Duncan: take your time, I wont be able to work on it until next week anyway
00:59 Darren_Duncan sounds good ... and I'll alert you when you no longer have to wait
01:00 stevan Darren_Duncan: have you seen all the ports iblech did?
01:00 Darren_Duncan I noticed that someone did a lot of ports, but didn't remember their name
01:00 stevan all by iblech
01:00 stevan but you have to go,.. dont let me keep you
01:00 Darren_Duncan good for iblech
01:00 Darren_Duncan yep, back in 90 mins
01:07 jabbot pugs - 1214 - large SQL::Routine update - continuing P
01:09 lukhnos has left
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01:16 stevan hey theorbtwo
01:16 theorbtwo Allo, stevan!
01:16 autrijus err, split regex.
01:17 autrijus I'll look at it after I finish my slides.
01:17 stevan autrijus: :)
01:17 jabbot pugs - 1215 - first upload of perl6 module Pod::Stream
01:17 stevan autrijus: either that, or make rx:perl5:g{} return an array
01:17 stevan which ever is easier
01:17 stevan and no rush
01:17 autrijus ok.
01:17 stevan I am just goofing around with a Pod parser
01:17 autrijus the later is easier.
01:17 stevan see ext/PodStreamParser
01:19 stevan autrijus++ thanks
01:26 autrijus perl6.vim is in.
01:27 jabbot pugs - 1216 - * perl6.vim, courtesy of luqui
01:28 ingy hola
01:29 autrijus Qiang++ # http://use.perl.org/~Qiang/journal/
01:29 autrijus keeping in touch with community++
01:45 kcwu autrijus: perl6.vim is broken, only half part left
01:46 autrijus fixed
01:47 jabbot pugs - 1217 - * add missing half of perl6.vim
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01:57 jabbot pugs - 1219 - * specify some function signature, then
01:57 jabbot pugs - 1218 - * implement ?| and fix contextual logica
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02:38 Darren_Duncan okay, I'm back from my non-computer activities
02:39 Darren_Duncan If I remember, autrijus, its about 10:40 where you are now, right?
02:39 Darren_Duncan Anyway, I'd like another hour at least to get stuff done, will provide updates
02:40 kcwu right
02:44 theorbtwo Hmm, anybody remember the URL for the stream from YAPC::Tapei ?
02:44 scw rtsp://140.110.17.6/yapc.sdp
02:58 autrijus ok. another hour is ok.
03:00 theorbtwo Oh, the stream is only of the translator.
03:01 scw theorbtwo: Err, no. Now the speaker is using Chinese
03:01 theorbtwo Oh.
03:02 theorbtwo gmplayer -rtsp-stream-over-tcp rtsp://140.110.17.6/yapc.sdp -fps 25 !
03:03 theorbtwo Of course, I can't understand a word he's saying.
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03:12 Corion Did Test.pm break?
03:13 kungfuftr Corion: not unless it's happened post 1208
03:14 Corion kungfuftr: I get 'unexpected "s"' in blib6\lib\Test.pm at line 149, column 1
03:14 Corion (I'm on 1219)
03:14 Corion (Win2k, but I guess that shouldn't matter. But maybe it matters that I'm on GHC 6.2)
03:15 autrijus fixing.
03:17 Corion autrijus: Cool :)
03:19 ninereasons has quit IRC ("Leaving")
03:21 autrijus Corion: please check
03:25 Corion ... checking
03:26 Corion Looks much better - tests that failed before now pass.
03:26 kungfuftr lol, nice to see sam looking like a garden gnome (http://flickr.com/photos/obra/​7453793/in/pool-35323643@N00/)
03:27 jabbot pugs - 1220 - * fix ?? breakage, thanks Corion
03:28 Corion Oooo - one TODO test passes - t/operators/operator.t - 1/29 unexpectedly succeeded
03:28 miyagawa has joined #perl6
03:28 * Corion bows to miyagawa
03:28 Darren_Duncan autrijus, I still need another half-hour or so until the next commit
03:29 Corion wtf ? "Failed 1/145 test scripts, 99.31% okay. 0/3198 subtests failed, 100.00% okay." ? Did you go on a mad bugfixing spree? (win2k/r1220)
03:30 autrijus k
03:30 kungfuftr youkoso miyagawa
03:30 Corion (or did I miss something and most of Perl6 now already works?) Anyway - really cool !
03:30 miyagawa chees
03:30 miyagawa cheers
03:32 kungfuftr there's a YAPC in Tokyo?
03:33 clkao in taipei
03:33 kungfuftr supposedly there's one in 2006 in tokyo
03:34 theorbtwo I don't know why, but hearing languages that I don't understand a word of, then having suddenly a word or two in English, then continuing on, seems amuzing to me.
03:35 clkao hopefully
03:36 kungfuftr excellent, must get another excuse to visit our yokohama office next year
03:36 * Corion falls into bed. Good night all!
03:37 Corion has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 0.10.1/20041001]")
03:37 theorbtwo Boggle.
03:37 theorbtwo I've never seen him up this late before.
03:40 theorbtwo We have a release in an hour?
03:46 asavige has joined #perl6
03:53 autrijus asavige!
03:54 asavige Fore! mad golfer reports Files=144, Tests=3198 all tests successful on WinXP (1 subtest unexpectedly succeeded)
03:56 autrijus yay!
03:56 autrijus which is the unexpectedly succeeded one?
03:56 * kungfuftr still waits on ghc 6.4 to compile
03:57 Khisanth unexpectedly succeeding tests are always amusing :)
03:58 asavige t/operators/operator 1/29 unexpectedly succeeded running with prove -v now
03:58 Darren_Duncan another incremental SQL::Routine commit is in ...
03:58 Darren_Duncan autrijus, I have now done the minimum I wanted to have in prior to the 6.0.13 release ...
03:59 Darren_Duncan tell me how much time left until you want to go, in case I were to try another increment commit
03:59 Darren_Duncan or if you want to go asap, then I'm fine with it
03:59 obra he's speaking right now
04:00 Darren_Duncan that was quick ... he only posted a few minutes ago
04:00 asavige prove -v  on operator.t: not ok 20 - boolean or (?|) returns 0 or 1 # TODO (line 56 Expected: 0 Got: )
04:01 Darren_Duncan I'm away from computer for next 10-20 mins
04:01 Darren_Duncan will run another make/make test in absense
04:01 Darren_Duncan got rev 1222
04:03 theorbtwo It's a pannel discussion.
04:03 Qiang has quit IRC ("reboot")
04:07 jabbot pugs - 1222 -  r3551@speights:  samv | 2005-03-27 12:2
04:07 jabbot pugs - 1221 - SQL::Routine perl6ification major increm
04:08 asavige I guess that means operator.t todo test on line 54 (2 ?| 3 equals 1) was the one that "unexpectedly succeeded"?
04:08 Darren_Duncan now on 'make test' for 1222
04:09 theorbtwo You're already one behind, D_D, but 1223 won't change any tests, but only because testgraph doesn't have any.
04:10 Darren_Duncan that's life
04:14 theorbtwo Next up: Leon Brocard
04:14 theorbtwo Exploiting Other Enterprises' Web Services
04:14 Ovid has joined #perl6
04:14 theorbtwo Oh, but not for another 2 hours.
04:14 theorbtwo Congrats, Ovid!
04:14 Ovid Thanks, but it turns out it's not over yet.  There's a ringleader out there.
04:15 Ovid Does anyone here have the capability of doing a reverse cell phone lookup?
04:15 Darren_Duncan result of testing 1222 is 'All tests successful (1 subtest UNEXPECTEDLY SUCCEEDED)'
04:17 jabbot pugs - 1223 - testgraph: Fix divide by zero when test
04:17 theorbtwo Interesting; I didn't see any dark red from mine.
04:19 Darren_Duncan continuing another segment ...
04:22 miyagawa has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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04:36 autrijus Darren_Duncan: take your time
04:36 autrijus I'm still pending ingy's fix
04:36 asavige In pugsrun/02-dash-n.t I noticed weird "&>" redirection. what does it mean? why not just use ">" ?
04:36 Darren_Duncan I hear you
04:37 jabbot pugs - 1224 - * ?| is no longer TODO
04:37 autrijus I have no idea.
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04:45 asavige 1224 make test all ok on WinXP now (unexpectedly succeeded gone)
04:47 justatheory has quit IRC ()
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04:59 autrijus cool.
04:59 autrijus Darren_Duncan, ingy: you have 90 more minutes.
04:59 Darren_Duncan thanks for the notice
05:00 autrijus then I do preflight check
05:00 asavige has quit IRC ("son wants to use computer now")
05:00 autrijus then I'll release before my talk.
05:00 Darren_Duncan that's until 23:30 my time
05:00 Darren_Duncan sounds good ...
05:00 autrijus :)
05:00 autrijus Darren_Duncan++
05:00 autrijus ingy++
05:01 autrijus # literally, eleventh hour
05:01 Darren_Duncan after all, what way to be a master presenter than to say to the audience "and you can get it RIGHT NOW"
05:01 Darren_Duncan better then
05:01 Darren_Duncan immediate gratification and all that
05:02 Darren_Duncan I also meant 22:30 my time
05:02 LCamel has joined #perl6
05:02 autrijus :)
05:02 LCamel ;)
05:02 Darren_Duncan :)
05:03 Darren_Duncan hey, everyones doing it
05:03 obra Hi LCamel
05:03 tcliou :P
05:03 theorbtwo $$(':')::Crazzy
05:04 autrijus o/~ crazy / toys in the attic / we are crazy / truly gone fishing o/~
05:04 miyagawa has joined #perl6
05:04 LCamel hi, obra ;)
05:09 Khisanth el gamel :)
05:09 autrijus lol :)
05:10 LCamel :)
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05:40 Darren_Duncan another SRT increment committed ... starting next one ...
05:43 autrijus the talk sequence changed.
05:43 autrijus you have _another_ 90 mins.
05:44 hcchien autrijus' talk would be startted about 4pm (GMT+8) ha
05:45 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
05:46 autrijus jserv is interested in parrot :D
05:46 Darren_Duncan that's nice to know ... however I probably won't take advantage of it since I have to wake up early tomorrow
05:46 autrijus (he's this mad kaffe vm guy in taiwan I like very much)
05:46 autrijus Darren_Duncan: ok =) let me know before you go sleep
05:46 Darren_Duncan will do
05:47 jabbot pugs - 1225 - another large SQL::Routine perl6ificatio
05:47 Darren_Duncan BTW, I don't know if anyone is doing this, but in the increment after the next one I expect to use multi-methods a bit
05:47 Khisanth autrijus: as in the Java thing?
05:48 autrijus Khisanth: yup.
05:48 autrijus he doesn't like java
05:48 autrijus but he likes java vm :)
05:48 autrijus and we both think that parrot has this strong Right Thing feeling.
05:48 Khisanth that ... seems a little odd :)
05:48 Khisanth so he just likes writing VMs?
05:49 autrijus yeah.
05:49 * Khisanth wonders how long it will be before someone writes a Perl -> Java bytecode thingy
05:50 Khisanth or does one already exist?
05:50 autrijus parrot->jvm?
05:50 autrijus not sure.
05:51 Khisanth I mean just perl->jvm
05:52 autrijus oh. no. there's Inline::Java
05:52 autrijus but not compiled
05:52 autrijus finally writings pugs slides now
05:52 autrijus (was writing perl6/parrot slides)
05:52 autrijus I just love this example:
05:52 autrijus % pugs
05:52 autrijus pugs> { $_ ?? $_ * &?BLOCK( $_ - 1 ) :: 1 }.(10)
05:52 autrijus 3628800
05:52 Khisanth was thinking more along the lines of how pugs can output stuff to run on parrot :)
05:53 autrijus src/Compile/Parrot.hs
05:53 autrijus it runs mandelbrot, as we know :)
05:53 autrijus (not much else, but hey, it's improving)
05:54 Khisanth because it needs more development or because parrot needs more development?
05:54 ingy autrijus: 1226
05:55 autrijus both, but mostly my side
05:55 autrijus I need to switch to TH2 entirely
05:56 Khisanth there is already a 2?
05:56 cnhackTNT is now known as cnhackTNT|WC
05:56 autrijus TH2 is GHC 6.4's TH
05:57 jabbot pugs - 1226 - Make things install to right places
05:59 gaal morning all
05:59 autrijus yo gaal.
06:00 Darren_Duncan mornin
06:01 gaal ooh, preflight checks
06:01 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Look ma, no script!")
06:04 gaal tests broke on mingw again :(
06:05 autrijus !.
06:05 autrijus break how.
06:05 autrijus ingy: your bug?
06:05 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "mingw make test fails" (5 lines, 463B) at http://sial.org/pbot/8662
06:06 gaal we had something like this a few days back, Schwern had a few fixes
06:06 autrijus aw!
06:06 autrijus ingy: you should not put the */*.t etc to the command line
06:06 autrijus they belong to -e body!
06:07 autrijus (win32 does not expand htem)
06:07 kungfuftr *blink* okay... now ghc has actually finished building
06:07 cm has joined #perl6
06:09 gaal errrr, doh. tests DO run; somehow my environment forgot HARNESS_PERL and PERL6LIB.
06:09 ingy ?
06:10 ingy I made no changes to test stuff
06:10 gaal at first none of my test ran, but that was apparetnly my mistake for not setting up the env right.
06:10 autrijus hrmph.
06:10 autrijus weird
06:11 autrijus HARNESS_PERL is supposed to be set up as part of make test
06:11 autrijus ingy: ok, prolly not your fault
06:11 gaal this is weird though, it's the same window i've had open for a few days now and i did set up the env in it
06:11 autrijus I'll try to fix.
06:12 gaal make test doesn't skip rules.Disabled
06:12 gaal and t/Dialects/perlego/sigilless.t dies
06:12 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
06:12 gaal Failed 5/148 test scripts, 95.95% okay (mingw)
06:13 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "also, some compilation warnings" (26 lines, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8663
06:15 autrijus the warnings are expected.
06:15 gaal k
06:16 gaal sigilless dying is weird, because i treated it with an eval yesterday exactly so it doesn't die (and the treatment worked)
06:19 autrijus LCamel: foundry is broken just now.
06:19 autrijus did anyone do anything?
06:19 autrijus it worked a few mins ago.
06:23 marcusT has joined #perl6
06:23 Darren_Duncan I didn't do nothin'
06:23 autrijus sure, "anyone" here is limited to foundry folks :-/
06:25 LCamel autrijus: i see.
06:27 Darren_Duncan upon further investigation, the problem seems specific to the web server ...
06:27 Darren_Duncan a 'svn update' still works just now, between 2 failings to load a web page
06:27 Darren_Duncan so it appears I will still be able to commit tonight
06:27 autrijus preflight #1
06:27 firzen has joined #perl6
06:28 Darren_Duncan am I not allowed to commit first?
06:28 gaal r1226, autrijus?
06:28 autrijus http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrij​us/tmp/Perl6-Pugs-6.0.13.tar.gz  
06:28 autrijus Darren_Duncan: if you can still commit, sure., but chance are you can't.
06:28 firzen Why I always be off line? mIRC display "Your connection was lost"
06:28 Darren_Duncan I can update
06:28 autrijus update requires no auth.
06:28 autrijus auth requires the web server.
06:29 Darren_Duncan I see
06:29 autrijus again, for preflight, platform/ghcversion/the "how many tests passed" line
06:29 autrijus is encouraged.
06:29 Darren_Duncan right, I'll save any commit of what I'm on now for tomorrow
06:29 Darren_Duncan will now preflight check ...
06:30 gaal Disabled is still begin tested
06:30 autrijus gaal: tarball?
06:30 gaal (as of r)
06:30 autrijus tarball please.
06:30 gaal sorry, don't have the tarball not yet
06:30 autrijus svn is broken. :)
06:30 gaal ahh
06:31 autrijus I can't commit any of fixes ;)
06:31 gaal one sec
06:32 firzen has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
06:32 * kungfuftr also notes "make test" is broken
06:32 autrijus kungfuftr: tarball?
06:32 autrijus please ignore svn and check tarball
06:33 kungfuftr k
06:34 Darren_Duncan tarball is downloaded ... now running 'make'
06:36 marcus has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:36 gaal make test is running. it triggered a regular make first, which of course didn't have any work to do
06:37 autrijus that is fine.
06:37 gaal getting some errors in examples; details soon
06:38 gaal mingw/6.4/Failed 2/142 test scripts, 98.59% okay. 14/3196 subtests failed
06:38 autrijus ok. details?
06:40 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "fails in examples" (156 lines, 5.6K) at http://sial.org/pbot/8664
06:41 gaal this is still mingw/64; checking on linux/6.4 now
06:42 autrijus ok.
06:42 gaal looks like i have permission problems and temp files don't get written?
06:42 autrijus yeah.
06:42 autrijus disabling those tests for 6.0.13.
06:42 autrijus (not critical to fix.)
06:42 autrijus (and golf actually works)
06:43 gaal isn't it just find . -type d | xargs chmod +xwr    ?
06:43 autrijus purr.
06:43 autrijus assuming there's find and xargs and chmod.
06:43 autrijus preflight #2.
06:44 autrijus http://autrijus.org/dist/Perl6-Pugs-6.0.13.tar.gz
06:44 gaal just checked.. it isn't just :(
06:44 autrijus 17 mins.
06:44 * autrijus still has 7 slides.
06:44 autrijus to write, that is.
06:46 gaal results from preflight#1 on linux/6.4: All tests successful, 1 subtest skipped.(<<--- basic.t)
06:46 gaal 1-basic that is
06:46 autrijus ok.
06:47 kungfuftr still running tests on freebsd
06:47 gaal compiling #2 on linux and on mingw
06:48 nothingmuch has quit IRC ()
06:49 gaal #2 still fails in examples :(
06:49 gaal no
06:49 gaal my bad
06:50 gaal untarred wrong package, gaal--
06:50 gaal sorry about that :)
06:51 Darren_Duncan now on 'make test' ...
06:55 gaal still fails on examples/, new tarball :(
06:56 ingy pugs is released?
06:56 autrijus hrmph.
06:56 autrijus ingy: no, preflight
06:56 autrijus gaal: there is no t/examples in new tarball.
06:57 kungfuftr autrijus: all pass (1 skip [1-basic]) on freebsd 4.11
06:57 * gaal is puzzled
06:57 Darren_Duncan tests done, all passed, there were 3196 tests in 142 files, no problems here
06:58 Darren_Duncan the t/1-basic thing results in 1/16 skipped, rest successful
06:59 Darren_Duncan I'm on Mac OS X 10.3.8 with GHC 6.2
07:00 gaal aw :( i forgot the screwdriver in the engine ESCdd reused the pf1 url.
07:00 Darren_Duncan I'm about to sign off for the night ... any last requests?
07:03 Darren_Duncan good luck with the delivery
07:06 gaal tests are running, and the coffee is high.
07:08 gaal mingw/6.4: All tests successful, 1 subtest skipped.
07:10 autrijus ok, released.
07:10 gaal sorry for the delay earlier :(
07:11 kungfuftr yay
07:11 asavige has joined #perl6
07:12 autrijus http://pause.cpan.org/incomi​ng/Perl6-Pugs-6.0.13.tar.gz
07:13 * gaal is off to $work
07:14 mugwump Releasing software while you're translating a talk!?!
07:14 autrijus yup.
07:15 * kungfuftr offers autrijus some crack
07:16 Khisanth multitasking++ :)
07:17 cnhackTNT|WC is now known as cnhackTNT
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07:23 asavige Perl6-Pugs-6.0.13.tar.gz seems to be missing new t/README file and t/examples, t/Dialects, t/kwid, t/Synopsis dirs
07:23 autrijus yes.
07:23 autrijus sadly.
07:23 autrijus sorry for that. :-/
07:23 asavige cool. Not showstoppers
07:25 asavige better than crack is blue sugar cubes from the frig (Larry does that) Anyone know what is blue sugar cubes? Is that an American thing?
07:26 Jouke has joined #perl6
07:27 * Khisanth has never seen blue sugar cubes
07:28 q[acme] has joined #perl6
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07:28 fritzz http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&am​p;q=%22blue+sugar+cubes%22&amp;meta=
07:28 fritzz weird
07:29 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Client Quit)
07:29 * q[acme] plays with pugs
07:29 asavige Larry mentions it here http://www.nntp.perl.org/gro​up/perl.perl6.language/19473
07:29 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
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07:30 Khisanth asavige: I seem to recall a similar line in one of the matrix movies
07:32 cm I believe it was not about sugar cubes there :|
07:33 Khisanth yes but same idea?
07:34 nothingmuch morning
07:36 lightstep has joined #perl6
07:37 kungfuftr q[acme]: what happened to giving up programming?!
07:38 q[acme] kungfuftr: shush
07:38 kungfuftr q[acme]: remind me... i owe you beer
07:39 Khisanth kungfuftr: there wasn't a Programmers Anonymous to be found ;)
07:39 kungfuftr Khisanth: hhhmmm... there might be money in this... self-help books for programmers
07:40 Khisanth kungfuftr: already exist
07:40 kungfuftr =0o
07:40 kungfuftr lies!
07:41 * nothingmuch wonders if anyone can keep with iblech's productivity
07:41 nothingmuch and link all the tests he writes
07:42 Khisanth all those "Practical $programming_language [Programming]?" books :)
07:42 Khisanth link?
07:43 nothingmuch Khisanth: the backlinks
07:43 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status
07:43 nothingmuch browse S02, for example
07:43 nothingmuch you see links to the tests under headers
07:44 nothingmuch and also links to the tests as little superscripts in the docs themselves
07:44 Khisanth hmm no tests for rules yet?
07:44 nothingmuch i don't know
07:44 nothingmuch don't think so
07:44 nothingmuch p5 ones were disabled or something, a while ago
07:45 nothingmuch then again, i'm about 2 days behind
07:45 Khisanth I guess tests for classes and traits should come first
07:46 gaal has quit IRC ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
07:48 cm why did you want to give up programming, q[acme]
07:49 Khisanth it was either that or his right foot!
07:49 autrijus my talk starts in 10 minutes.
07:49 nothingmuch good luck, autrijus!
07:50 Khisanth so did you finish the slides yet? ;)
07:52 simcop2387-vnc has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
07:53 pingzi has joined #perl6
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07:57 autrijus http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/p6tu/start.html
07:58 tiw has joined #perl6
07:58 Khisanth ptu?
07:58 autrijus perl 6 the ultimate
07:58 q[acme] hello world!
07:59 autrijus now all you guys are on screen
07:59 autrijus I have 2 mins before my talk
07:59 obra HI YAPC
07:59 autrijus I'll post announcement to p6c during those 2mins
07:59 obra miyagawa: yeah. let me load my pix
07:59 Khisanth :)
08:00 revdiablo quotes from the silmarillion?
08:00 lightstep in every source file
08:00 revdiablo ah, I wondered where those came from -- didn't recognize them until now :)
08:01 revdiablo I guess 'The Silmaril as lantern light' gave it away
08:01 kungfuftr EAT THE CHEESE OF DOOM!
08:01 hcchien the pugs talk is going to start, and the streaming broadcast is in rtsp://140.110.17.6/yapc.sdp
08:02 metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:04 kungfuftr bah... what supports real?
08:04 hcchien but it's in chinese. :p
08:04 hcchien quicktime
08:05 kungfuftr yay
08:05 kungfuftr that's one hairy perl geek in front of the camera!
08:06 * Khisanth wonders why slide 18 is full of smileys
08:12 lightstep has quit IRC ("Lost terminal")
08:14 lightstep has joined #perl6
08:15 tiw how can i see it in linux?
08:16 kungfuftr tiw: mplayer with extra codecs should work
08:17 jabbot pugs - 1227 - fuller rows when splitting
08:17 tiw kungfuftr: thanks :)
08:19 revdiablo how long is autrijus' talk?
08:19 hcchien 90 mins
08:19 obra he'll go over ;)
08:19 hcchien ha
08:19 revdiablo ah, I wondered how he was going to fit in all this stuff =)
08:20 kungfuftr i was wondering how he was going to cope with not being able to commit for 90 mins
08:21 cm how can i see it on windows?
08:21 kungfuftr cm: quicktime
08:21 Khisanth kungfuftr: he can start demonstrating pugs development in the middle of the talk
08:22 kungfuftr Khisanth: touche
08:22 cm kungfuftr: thx :o
08:22 Khisanth "he we can see pugs development is going on as I speak"
08:22 Khisanth oops s/he/here/
08:22 cm he speaks crazy language
08:23 hcchien ha, in chinese
08:23 kungfuftr exactly, crazy language
08:23 cm the projector had too many blue sugar cubes
08:23 lightstep howcome no test fail on bsd, but 105 fail on other platforms?
08:24 kungfuftr lightstep: look at the revision numbers
08:24 lightstep oh
08:24 Khisanth hrm
08:24 Khisanth does the Makefile not handle the PCRE stuff?
08:24 cm ..so who in here understands this language? :)
08:25 Khisanth cm: quite a few :)
08:25 mugwump perl6?  what's there not to understand?  ;)
08:25 cm next question: who wants to translate :o)
08:25 mugwump oh han4yu3
08:26 kungfuftr mugwump: what's this i hear about you stealing the clothes from a garden gnome?
08:26 cm mugwump: i thought the point with p6 is that you just write code and it all magically works :o)
08:26 kungfuftr would be nice to see the slides, i would suppose
08:26 mugwump only if you write "retardo" after it :)
08:27 Khisanth hcchien: will the mpeg have subtitles? :)
08:27 mugwump You're the first person to say it looks like a gnome kungfuftr ... I've had "hobbit" recently :)
08:27 mugwump there's some pix on flickr
08:28 kungfuftr mugwump: i've seen you sitting at the bottom of my garden!
08:28 hcchien Khisanth: sounds a little difficult
08:28 cm someone call me when there's code to see on that stream.. :p
08:28 mugwump hanging out with the pixies
08:28 hcchien but slides would be, I guess.
08:30 hcchien maybe we should do a online translation etc. on irc. :D
08:30 Khisanth gah what do you have to do to get PCRE.o to link successfully?
08:30 cm yes you should!
08:30 Khisanth realtime translations?
08:30 hcchien gugod and scw know what he say now. :)
08:30 q[acme] we've been doing realtime translations for the rest of the conference, just the other way
08:31 plasmabal has joined #perl6
08:31 whiteg autrijus is introducing the history of Perl
08:32 yinjieh has joined #perl6
08:32 whiteg now hi is talking about the Perl 6
08:32 plasmabal New Genesis Camel  XD
08:32 hcchien he is talking a bout the "languge tax" in perl5
08:32 plasmabal * Faster: Compile into JIT machine code, runnable in embedded system.
08:32 clkao make test wants /usr/bin/pugs??
08:32 clkao why?
08:33 plasmabal * Compatible: Direct call to Perl5/C/Java/PHP/Python/Ruby libarary
08:33 mjhsieh has joined #perl6
08:33 kungfuftr clkao: no idea
08:33 lightstep ugh
08:33 plasmabal * Cleaner: Shorten often-used syntax.
08:33 kungfuftr clkao: autrijus just is "svn's broken"
08:33 plasmabal Powerful: Buile-in OO, Function-O, Doc-O, Logical-O
08:33 plasmabal ooops, another slide.
08:34 plasmabal skip skip skip. XD
08:34 plasmabal Let's see Perl 6
08:34 lightstep pugs comes only on slide 61
08:34 hcchien live demo now
08:34 cm (thx for your translation efforts :)
08:34 plasmabal :)
08:34 kungfuftr ta
08:35 whiteg Perl 6 looks like Perl
08:35 plasmabal THis is a moudle, runabble
08:35 plasmabal it's in test suite.
08:35 plasmabal no trick, just plain code.
08:35 Khisanth hmm those slides work well as a mini perl 6 tutorial
08:35 kungfuftr Perl 6 looks like larry sneezing on the perl5 design spec
08:35 plasmabal vim syntax highlight from perl 5, seems workable on perl 6.
08:35 plasmabal s,from,for,
08:36 mugwump perl 5 design spec?
08:36 mjhsieh live demo
08:36 Khisanth perl 5 has design specs?
08:36 kungfuftr yar, all written afterwards
08:36 kungfuftr =0)
08:36 obra kungfuftr: pointer?
08:36 cm each language construct fits onto a sugar cube ;o
08:36 mjhsieh benchmark
08:36 kungfuftr *slap* i'm taking the piss
08:36 whiteg this module will run tests, print yes, ok or not ok
08:37 plasmabal benchmark is like a box of cholocate: you never know where it runs faster.
08:37 plasmabal it's on perl 5
08:37 mjhsieh two mendelbrot
08:37 plasmabal let's see it runs on perl 6
08:37 gaal has joined #perl6
08:38 mjhsieh s/mendelbrot/mandelbrot/
08:38 plasmabal see the results
08:38 mjhsieh -O2 vs -O0
08:38 plasmabal i didn't declare the variable as native type, or it'll run faster.
08:38 mjhsieh so it's working
08:38 plasmabal let's see the result, they are all the same.
08:39 whiteg if you download pugs, there are more examples
08:39 mjhsieh sorting
08:39 plasmabal teries.pmc, the test is very important. XD
08:40 plasmabal i can play it until the talk is over.
08:40 mjhsieh no re-compilation needed
08:40 plasmabal Thee items:
08:40 plasmabal * Perl 6: Language specifications:
08:41 plasmabal *Parrot: Run-time environment
08:41 plasmabal * Pugs: Compiler
08:42 plasmabal Three major items, sorry.
08:42 whiteg compile Perl 6 to run on Parrot
08:42 nothingmuch how would you link the testgraph tds to the tests?
08:42 nothingmuch i know the target URL
08:42 kungfuftr plasmabal: no need to worry about being precise, just concise
08:42 nothingmuch but i don't know the HTML to back it
08:42 nothingmuch numbers look bad
08:42 plasmabal kungfuftr: :)
08:42 nothingmuch i need a sort of &nbsp; that fills the entire td and is clickable
08:42 obra nothingmuch: javascript
08:43 plasmabal Why they are called major?  they're going to complete the New Genesis Camel
08:43 obra onClick
08:43 plasmabal Three minor items:
08:43 mjhsieh neon genesis camel
08:43 plasmabal * Ponie: Perl 5 interepter
08:43 nothingmuch obra: i'll try
08:43 kungfuftr nothingmuch: set the css style to "display: block;" and it'll fill the whole area
08:43 cnhackTNT has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
08:43 nothingmuch kungfuftr: what will fill it?
08:43 nothingmuch &nbsp;?
08:44 kungfuftr it's containing element
08:44 nothingmuch and if it's nothing, will that work?
08:44 plasmabal * PPD: Perl5 translator
08:44 vgod_ has joined #perl6
08:44 nothingmuch <td style="display: block"><a href="url"></a></td>
08:44 kungfuftr should do
08:44 kungfuftr nah, on the link tag itself
08:45 yinjieh * Ponie: Perl 5 interpreter
08:45 plasmabal yinjieh: my finger flips. :p
08:45 yinjieh plasmabal: :p
08:45 mjhsieh ha
08:45 whiteg * PPD: Perl 5 translator
08:45 * nothingmuch tries
08:45 plasmabal * PGE: Rules Compiler
08:46 whiteg PGE -> P grammer engine
08:46 mjhsieh P grammer engine
08:46 mjhsieh oops
08:46 kungfuftr too many cooks in the kitchen
08:46 plasmabal FAQ:
08:46 plasmabal * Who many perl 6 programs can run now?
08:46 * mjhsieh shut-up
08:46 plasmabal s,Who,How,
08:46 plasmabal "Very many"
08:47 nothingmuch kungfuftr++ # works great
08:47 kungfuftr nothingmuch: yay!
08:47 plasmabal * Can Modules on CPAN run?
08:47 nothingmuch if you want to see, just one second
08:47 mugwump plasmabal: ingy's working on that :)
08:47 plasmabal "Many people is working on it"
08:47 mjhsieh excluding OO
08:47 plasmabal * Will Perl 5 stop maintaining?
08:48 whiteg of course not
08:48 plasmabal "ABsolute not"
08:48 plasmabal absolutely
08:48 plasmabal will maintain until nobody use perl5
08:48 plasmabal * DO i need to learn perl 6 from scratch?
08:48 kungfuftr mugwump: is anyone from tpf out there?
08:48 plasmabal "no"
08:49 plasmabal he talks too fast. XD
08:49 plasmabal * I'd like to help, what can i do?
08:49 plasmabal "Don't walk away, complete this talk." XD
08:49 lightstep mplayer doesn't get the stream: it keeps waiting
08:49 plasmabal good, this slide is a diagram. XD
08:50 mjhsieh lightstep: you might need qt
08:50 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.or​g/pugs_test_status/graph.html
08:50 whiteg it's a time table of Perl 6 developing process
08:50 whiteg 2001:perl 6 starts
08:50 nothingmuch it's not perfect
08:50 plasmabal 4 years passed, no single perl 6 line is runnable.
08:50 nothingmuch some line numbers are missing
08:50 plasmabal bwahahaha
08:50 nothingmuch i'm working on that
08:50 kungfuftr nothingmuch: looking good
08:50 nothingmuch but in general you can click most blocks, and get to the corresponding line in the test file
08:50 nothingmuch which will be vimcolorified, as soon as i manage to find a version of perl6.vim
08:51 whiteg everyone bzz
08:51 nothingmuch after that I hope to start coloring the tests themselves
08:51 kungfuftr nothingmuch: perl6.vim is in svn
08:51 nothingmuch good to know
08:51 plasmabal this project is a lie.
08:51 nothingmuch i googled for it, but couldn't download
08:51 nothingmuch plasmabal: it's working now
08:51 plasmabal here comes a nut to implete perl 6.
08:51 plasmabal nothingmuch: i'm translating what au is talking. :)
08:51 whiteg Feb 2005, a crazy strated to do something.
08:51 nothingmuch autrijus managed to save everyone ;-)
08:51 nothingmuch ah
08:51 nothingmuch hehe
08:52 nothingmuch my problem now is that the (platform x revision) matrix creates a bajilion graphs
08:52 nothingmuch and I don't know how to correlate everything
08:52 whiteg 2005-2006:hack hack hack
08:53 gaal hey, if plasmabal is translating au's talk live, and au has a #perl6 window open, so we gett hofstadter-style weird loops?
08:53 plasmabal Perl 6: Make world in steps
08:53 kungfuftr autrijus: skewed vision, eh?
08:53 plasmabal Below is progressing mainly on perl6-language@perl.org
08:53 plasmabal 1. call for RFC, collecting ideas
08:54 plasmabal 2. brain-storm in groups, file complete spec suggests
08:54 gaal like videotaping your display as it displays what the vidcam feed
08:54 plasmabal 3. Larry split RFC into chapters, write A one by one
08:54 lightstep i think it's "strange loops"
08:54 whiteg within 15 days
08:54 gaal "strange loops" are weird
08:54 plasmabal his slide is in traditional chinese, i'm translating them into english.
08:55 gaal of course, if the content of #perl6 also mentions the fact that feedback is happening, this makes it doubly weird.
08:55 mjhsieh plasmabal: I can see the slide, then I'll leave it to you
08:55 plasmabal mjhsieh: ©I©I©I
08:55 whiteg so Larry spent half an year to split RFC
08:56 kungfuftr btw, anyone who know trad chinese, simp chinese and japanese AND perl, would be well advised to apply for a job with us!
08:56 plasmabal there're too many rfc so larry in in BSOD.
08:56 plasmabal bwahahaha
08:56 whiteg Larry split RFC according to the chapters of llama
08:56 plasmabal after endless reboot, larry decided to focus one topic at a time.
08:57 Khisanth ah finally ...
08:57 plasmabal 4: design team write corresponding notes, providing examples.
08:57 plasmabal 5. communities provides suggest to A and notes.
08:57 plasmabal 6. Design provide S according to feedback.
08:57 tiw mjhsieh: is the slide in web?
08:58 plasmabal http://wagner.elixus.org/~aut​rijus/p6tu/slide17g.html#end
08:58 mjhsieh plasmabal: sorry (I can't)
08:58 plasmabal 7. Implementation team will do initial implements
08:58 plasmabal mjhsieh: can't want?
08:58 plasmabal can't what?
08:58 plasmabal 8: Correct S according implemntaiton results
08:58 mjhsieh plasmabal: I can't see the slide through the broadcast
08:59 plasmabal 9: implemntation team do the following implementation.
08:59 whiteg we're now at step9,
08:59 plasmabal Perl 6: ... (Don't know) XD
08:59 plasmabal * Huffman encoding:
08:59 gugod Perl 6: Driver Complexity Easily
08:59 * kungfuftr chuckles at craziness between video and chan
08:59 gugod s/Driver/Driving
09:00 plasmabal * Huffman encoding: Easy is easier, hard possible.
09:00 whiteg the more used command should be shorter
09:00 plasmabal 'or' is so often, why we use so many 'or'? use any(...)
09:01 plasmabal * Meet balance between extermes
09:01 plasmabal # Too many operators
09:01 plasmabal # Too little operators
09:02 plasmabal * Accept (words from outside world), respect differences between cultures.
09:02 gugod Accept foriegn languages
09:03 ij1iao has joined #perl6
09:03 gugod foreign, sorry
09:03 plasmabal Perl 6: The theory of waterbed.
09:03 kungfuftr ullo ij1iao
09:03 plasmabal * Press here
09:03 gugod Perl 6: Waterbed Theory
09:03 mugwump why use any() when you can use the ∀ operator?  :)
09:03 mugwump blast
09:03 hlafarge has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
09:03 plasmabal * Pop there
09:04 lightstep isn't that forall?
09:04 mugwump er, yes, all()
09:04 plasmabal * The complexity is a constant
09:04 mugwump probably want ∃ (\x{2203})
09:05 plasmabal Perl 6: Avoid (gugod, here you go)
09:05 plasmabal * If "cat" is "tog"
09:05 plasmabal * outstanding visual difference
09:06 whiteg Avoid a word with diffrernt meanings
09:06 gugod Avoid the phrases with multiple purposes
09:06 ij1iao avoid ambiguous
09:06 gugod exaclty
09:06 LCamel don't overload too much
09:06 plasmabal Perl 6 : Freedom
09:06 plasmabal * Give the most freedom to programmers
09:07 jabbot pugs - 1228 - Move SHA1 to modules.
09:07 kungfuftr <<NB: live translation of autrijus' talk in progress>>
09:07 plasmabal * By custom, no rules.
09:07 ij1iao s/idioms/custom/ ?
09:07 plasmabal * By idiom, not rules
09:07 plasmabal ya ya
09:08 ij1iao * Keep flexibilities
09:08 whiteg * reflect environmental requirments at any time
09:08 plasmabal somebody take over, i need a rest. :p
09:08 kungfuftr hehe
09:08 ij1iao gugod: go
09:08 * gugod goes
09:08 gugod XD
09:08 whiteg ij1iao: go
09:08 kungfuftr ij1iao++ # my fbsd hero
09:08 plasmabal ij1iao: hero!
09:08 ij1iao who ?
09:08 whiteg Perl 6: DWM
09:09 plasmabal DWIM
09:09 whiteg * Do what I mean
09:09 kungfuftr not what i say
09:09 whiteg * Make Perl more like a phrase
09:09 whiteg * do have to use formal english
09:09 gugod mc:3rd:w/word/ -> match the 3rd occurence of "word" in a string
09:09 plasmabal do not
09:09 whiteg s/do/do not
09:10 mjhsieh mc:3st:w/word/ also do
09:10 whiteg * don't even have to use english
09:10 plasmabal * not necessary in english
09:10 gugod and here comes some chinese code
09:10 mjhsieh 'engrish'
09:10 plasmabal (those examples are in chinese)
09:10 plasmabal mjhsieh: haha
09:10 ij1iao i think it's "not always use formal english"
09:11 whiteg you can do it with some slang module
09:11 gugod Perl6: Document Object Model
09:11 gugod * Whatever inside the progrom document, should be also a object
09:11 kungfuftr so now were'
09:11 ij1iao * use %=POD to access all kinds of embeded data
09:11 kungfuftr bah
09:12 whiteg Perl : variable signs
09:12 plasmabal * Sigil is now part of variable names
09:12 plasmabal @array[3] # no longer $array[3]
09:12 plasmabal %hash{'key'} # also in %hash<key>
09:12 mugwump It's called a DOM but it will look and work more like Tree:DAG_Node or XML::Twig etc
09:12 mugwump Whichever Tree algorithm gets ported to Perl6 first probably :)
09:12 whiteg rules is not very consistent.
09:13 whiteg s/is/are
09:13 plasmabal i'm back. :p
09:13 whiteg welcome back
09:13 plasmabal * array and hash could be used as objects
09:13 gugod (can I keep trying to release SVK::Churn now? :P)
09:13 ij1iao * therefore, arrays and hashs can be used as objects
09:13 plasmabal gugod: go ahead. :p
09:14 plasmabal do things through method calls
09:14 plasmabal Perl 6: Dot
09:14 whiteg Perl 6: .
09:14 ij1iao * "->" becomes "."
09:14 plasmabal * often-used -> shorten to .
09:14 plasmabal $a_ref.[1] # could be shorten into $ref[1]
09:15 plasmabal * . could be used to call sub
09:15 nothingmuch . o O ( p6 autocompletes the a_ ? ;-) )
09:15 plasmabal ... # it works
09:15 plasmabal .... # it works too
09:15 plasmabal Perl 6: method
09:15 hlafarge has joined #perl6
09:15 plasmabal * Easy to memorise method
09:16 plasmabal @... # replaces scalar(@array)
09:16 mjhsieh @array.elems
09:16 miyagawa Orz
09:16 plasmabal @array.bytes # ... impossible in Perl 5 Orz
09:16 cnhackTNT has joined #perl6
09:16 plasmabal &function.arity #... also impossible XD
09:16 ij1iao Perl 6: Named Variables
09:16 plasmabal opos new slide
09:16 plasmabal * Old syntax is ok
09:16 plasmabal * New named parameters
09:17 jabbot pugs - 1229 -  r3555@speights:  samv | 2005-03-27 17:4
09:17 plasmabal sub clean... # by addr
09:17 plasmabal sub by_value ... # by value
09:17 mugwump bah, why don't me commit messages go in cleanly :(
09:17 plasmabal sub some_opt ... # optional
09:17 plasmabal sub modify ... # modifiable
09:17 plasmabal sub typed ... # typed
09:17 LCamel Perl6::Subs
09:18 plasmabal Pelr 6: Call sub
09:18 plasmabal * Not flatten
09:19 plasmabal :names<a b c> => pass a b c into parameter  named 'names'
09:20 plasmabal * Flatten
09:20 kungfuftr mugwump: i assume they're truncated by the bot
09:20 gugod no... it's truncated in the rss
09:20 plasmabal Perl 6: High level sub
09:21 LCamel (*@_)
09:21 plasmabal * use .assuming to do local currying
09:21 gugod I shall change the bot to optionally report the <description> tag
09:21 gugod that'll make it more informative
09:21 plasmabal * ...... (blank brain...)
09:22 plasmabal autrijus just said he's going to speak FASTER. :O
09:22 kungfuftr mwuahaha
09:22 ij1iao perl6: multi-dispatch sub
09:22 plasmabal Perl 6: Multiple dispatch sub
09:22 plasmabal * By type
09:22 plasmabal * Type value
09:22 plasmabal s,Type,By,
09:23 plasmabal Perl 6: Operator
09:23 ij1iao perl6: operators
09:23 plasmabal * New operator
09:23 plasmabal say ... # read operators
09:23 plasmabal ...; # ... operator
09:23 whiteg ...: #lalala operators
09:23 plasmabal haha
09:23 whiteg lalala
09:23 plasmabal lalala
09:24 plasmabal * unicode operators
09:25 whiteg you can define operators with unicode
09:26 plasmabal bwahahaha
09:26 ij1iao zip operator ...
09:26 plasmabal the jap-yen looks like a zip
09:27 cnhackTNT has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:27 plasmabal unable to type jap-yen on your kb? use Y instead.
09:27 bytewolf has joined #perl6
09:27 plasmabal * Extend existing operators
09:27 miyagawa hmm, Yen mark is confusable to backslash, for Japanese users
09:28 mjhsieh miyagawa: I agree
09:28 miyagawa we already see/use Yen mark instead of backslash :)
09:28 plasmabal Perl 6: Numeric value and true value
09:28 plasmabal * Numeric context
09:28 plasmabal * True context
09:28 plasmabal * Trinary operator
09:28 LCamel boolean context
09:29 plasmabal hum?
09:29 plasmabal oh
09:29 plasmabal s,True,Boolean,
09:29 ij1iao boolean context, not true context
09:29 plasmabal Perl: Strings
09:29 plasmabal * String context and concatation
09:29 plasmabal * String interpolation
09:30 plasmabal * Formatting strings
09:31 plasmabal Perl 6: Logical operators
09:32 plasmabal * Short curcuit and open curcuit
09:32 plasmabal open ?
09:32 plasmabal am i right?
09:32 LCamel circuit
09:33 plasmabal * Italic (?) || is 'defined or'
09:33 mjhsieh magic of 010
09:33 ij1iao //=
09:34 plasmabal //
09:34 plasmabal we're unable to make or italic, so we use err.
09:34 plasmabal ... ¶Wºû?
09:34 ij1iao super scalar ?
09:34 gugod hyper-dimention operation
09:35 obra what does >>|<< do?
09:35 plasmabal i don't remember i saw this before. :<
09:35 plasmabal Perl 6: Junctio operators
09:35 plasmabal Junction
09:35 lightstep obra, runs | elementwise
09:35 LCamel >>|<< works like map ?
09:35 plasmabal * Use shortcut (?)
09:35 plasmabal # In perl 5, you write:
09:36 plasmabal * Prime test
09:36 plasmabal ½á¦W?
09:36 lightstep no, >><< works like map
09:36 plasmabal alias?
09:36 plasmabal Perl 6: Alias operators
09:37 Juerd obra: @foo >>|<< @bar returns a list of max(+@foo, +@bar) 2-element disjunctions
09:37 LCamel i think codes written in perl6 will be more difficult to maintain..
09:37 plasmabal * Don't need to learn hard glob
09:37 ij1iao powerful lazy-evaluation
09:37 plasmabal * Powerful lazy evaluation
09:37 Juerd LCamel: Code is singular, always.
09:37 plasmabal Perl 6: Matching operators
09:37 plasmabal * Smarter than =~
09:37 Juerd obra: Don't you like the >>+&=<< operator? ;)
09:38 plasmabal * Could process not only scalar
09:38 plasmabal Perl 6: Switch
09:38 LCamel Juerd: thx
09:38 plasmabal * We use given/when to match
09:38 plasmabal * given/when use the same function as ~~
09:38 ij1iao perl6: loop
09:38 plasmabal Perl 6: Loops
09:38 gugod LCamel: you should start writing perl6 right now
09:38 plasmabal * foreach now use for
09:39 elmex has joined #perl6
09:39 plasmabal * for could retreat many values at once.
09:39 gugod LCamel: then you'll know how easily it is to read
09:39 plasmabal s,retreat,get,
09:39 plasmabal Perl 6: Exceptions
09:39 plasmabal * Use $! globally, no $@, $?, and $^E.
09:39 LCamel gugod: the language becomes bigger
09:39 plasmabal Perl 6: Class
09:40 plasmabal ... TOO FAST now~~~
09:40 gugod LCamel: but code becomes more clear
09:40 lightstep has quit IRC ("brain overload")
09:40 LCamel gugod: i see.
09:40 plasmabal Perl 6: Roles
09:40 gugod LCamel: peopel don't write a module that uses all feature of perl6
09:40 plasmabal Perl 6: Rules
09:40 gugod LCamel: (that's scares)
09:40 gugod yay, Perl 6 rules
09:41 * gugod feels like a noise application
09:41 ij1iao too fast to translate ...
09:41 * kungfuftr shoots gugod
09:41 plasmabal * modifiers are prefix instead of postfix
09:41 plasmabal * anonymous and named rules
09:41 plasmabal * rules includes rules
09:41 plasmabal Perl 6: Syntax
09:41 plasmabal * Give rule a namespace
09:41 plasmabal * Perl 6 is a grammar
09:42 plasmabal Perl 6: In one word
09:42 plasmabal * easy to learn
09:42 plasmabal * Specific (?)
09:42 plasmabal * Accept others
09:42 plasmabal * Workable now
09:42 plasmabal * Make perl more perl
09:42 plasmabal Parrot
09:42 plasmabal ....
09:42 Juerd wth is plasmabal :)
09:42 cm plasmabal is translating autrijus' talk
09:42 plasmabal autrijus is insane now
09:43 cm plasmabal: how so? :D
09:43 Juerd ahh
09:43 ij1iao April Fools joke become true
09:43 gugod -- It starts from 4/1 2001
09:43 plasmabal Parrot: Dreams come true in April's day
09:43 plasmabal * What is parrot
09:43 plasmabal * Perl 6's Virtual machine
09:43 cm * a pipe dream
09:43 plasmabal s,april's day,april fool
09:43 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("New connection in a while! [Time wasted online: 3hrs 31mins 6secs]")
09:44 gugod A joke that said "Perl6 and Python will be merged"
09:44 plasmabal * also run python, ruby, scheme, forth, basic
09:44 gugod That comes true as desining VM for both languages
09:44 bytewolf is now known as cnhackTNT
09:44 plasmabal * more suitable for dynamic language than java/.net
09:44 gugod ... while it's also the time .Net starts
09:44 plasmabal * college course
09:44 plasmabal * (developers etc)
09:44 plasmabal Parrot: downlad and install
09:44 plasmabal * get stable version
09:45 plasmabal * develop version
09:45 plasmabal Parrot: assembly langauge
09:45 ij1iao parrot: assembly language
09:45 gugod parrot has 3 internal asm
09:45 plasmabal * high-level assembly langauge
09:45 gugod IMC, PASM, PBC
09:45 plasmabal * lovel-level
09:45 ij1iao parrot : register
09:45 gugod it uses registrator
09:45 plasmabal blah blah blah
09:45 plasmabal Parrot: registers
09:45 plasmabal * Direct maaping to registers on cpu
09:45 gugod Some of the binds to CPU register directly
09:45 plasmabal * Parrot magic cookie:
09:45 plasmabal Parrot: variable
09:45 plasmabal * Use registers as variables
09:46 gugod s/Some of the/Some of them/
09:46 plasmabal * named local variable and functions
09:46 plasmabal # save as hello.pmc and you can run in parrot
09:46 gugod As a VM, the number of registers is like 2^32 -1, but it depends on your CPU arch
09:46 plasmabal parrot: control structure
09:46 ij1iao Parrot: Control Flow
09:46 plasmabal * simple loop
09:47 plasmabal * lable can be saved in continuation objects
09:47 gugod -- This  asm has /continuation/
09:47 ij1iao * labels can be stored to continuation objects
09:47 gugod (are we sub-etha-irc ?)
09:47 plasmabal parrot: sub
09:47 ij1iao Parrot: function
09:47 plasmabal * simple sub
09:47 plasmabal haha
09:47 ij1iao * call sub
09:47 plasmabal ij1iao: take over?
09:47 gugod -- this asm even has function call
09:47 ij1iao plasmabal: no ;p
09:47 plasmabal foo
09:47 ij1iao bar
09:48 cm baz
09:48 kungfuftr cheese
09:48 plasmabal parrot: advanced sub
09:48 ij1iao Parrot: adv. sub
09:48 plasmabal * multi-valued sub
09:48 plasmabal * sub call
09:48 gugod -- it doesn't require you to learn parrot asm to write perl6, but it does, when you want to know the reason your perl6 is not fast enough
09:48 plasmabal parrot:library
09:48 ij1iao Parrot: Library
09:48 plasmabal * load library
09:48 elmex gugod: rofl
09:48 plasmabal * get sub wihtin
09:48 plasmabal * blah
09:48 elmex gugod: where does that wise saying come from?
09:48 plasmabal Parrot call external library
09:48 gugod -- you are allowed to load any of 3 asms, or any system depended libraryes
09:49 plasmabal * call .so or .dll on system directly
09:49 gugod elmex: I'm trying to translate autrijus speaking that are not covered by ijliao or plasmabal
09:49 plasmabal * call imeediately now
09:49 plasmabal parrot: todo
09:49 gugod elmex: so, autrijus :)
09:49 plasmabal * abstract syntax tree
09:49 plasmabal * charset translation (?)
09:49 ij1iao * encoding translation
09:49 plasmabal oh, encoding
09:49 ij1iao async IO
09:49 plasmabal * non-async IO
09:50 plasmabal * object exception handling
09:50 plasmabal * blah
09:50 ij1iao Pugs:
09:50 gugod -- Just release 6.0.13
09:50 plasmabal pugs: download and install
09:50 LCamel * 6.0.13 just released
09:50 plasmabal * 6.0.13 just released
09:50 plasmabal * install GHC first
09:50 ij1iao * pre-req GHC
09:50 plasmabal * get develop version
09:50 elmex what is sthis stuff plasmabal  says???
09:50 plasmabal pugs: the history of development
09:50 plasmabal * start on Feb 1, 2005.
09:50 kungfuftr elmex: keep up...
09:50 mjhsieh elmex: YAPC::Taipei
09:51 elmex ??
09:51 ij1iao GHC ? http://www.haskell.org/ghc/
09:51 plasmabal * the homework that I learn haskell and TaPL
09:51 LCamel elmex: plasmabal is translating the speach of autrijus
09:51 nothingmuch elmex: autrijus' talk
09:51 plasmabal * visit pugscode.org
09:51 cm elmex: plasmabal is translating autrijus' talk
09:51 plasmabal * superfast deveopemnt pace
09:51 plasmabal Pugs: interpreating mode
09:51 gugod -- and it all starts from a haskell tutoral execisement : Please choose some familiar small language to write a parser
09:51 plasmabal * CLI
09:51 plasmabal elmex: sorry, au is in bersek mode, so am i to follow his slide. :p
09:52 elmex ok
09:52 gugod -- JAPH code on screen
09:52 gugod -- Perl6 Users Golfing System,
09:52 gugod golf-driven development!
09:52 plasmabal pugs is not acronym of any words, but it's exapanded anyway.
09:53 plasmabal * interactive interface
09:53 gugod -- The early golf contect programes and accounting scripts are now ported to perl6
09:53 plasmabal pugs: compiling mode
09:53 plasmabal * three complie backends
09:53 ij1iao * 3 compiler back-end
09:53 gugod -- it's also a compiler to compile to haskell or C
09:53 plasmabal * JIT
09:53 gugod ooops, s/C/Parrot/
09:53 plasmabal pugs: develop model
09:54 gugod -- pugs : JFDI
09:54 plasmabal * blah
09:54 plasmabal * Wiki-style development team
09:54 ij1iao JFDI : Just Fxxxing Do It ?
09:54 gugod -- develoeprs(x) =~ x
09:54 gugod yes
09:54 plasmabal * two condtions to be a committer:
09:54 LCamel * 50+ commiters
09:54 plasmabal * test goes first
09:54 gugod -- Test-driven, Golf-driven
09:54 gugod -- >3k tests
09:54 plasmabal ** golf-driven
09:55 plasmabal * test-driven
09:55 plasmabal ** golf-driven
09:55 plasmabal * attracts a lot of nuts
09:55 plasmabal haha
09:55 gugod -- Golf has lots of un-document features of perl6 that's not even present in some source code , and might be even runnable on full-moon night.
09:55 nothingmuch =)
09:56 plasmabal Pugs: documents
09:56 plasmabal * pugs: ex..... (too hard to spell)
09:56 plasmabal * Kwid document format
09:56 cm exegesis?
09:56 cm :|
09:56 gugod Apocryphon
09:56 plasmabal cm: never remember how to spell it. :p
09:57 jabbot pugs - 1230 - Refactor SHA1 to external Makefile.PL
09:57 gugod Apo-Cry-Phon :p
09:57 plasmabal * reamd and howto
09:57 plasmabal s,reamd,readme,
09:57 ij1iao pugs: test
09:57 plasmabal Pugs: Tests
09:57 cm hehe
09:57 ij1iao * 3k+ unit tests
09:57 plasmabal * t/ dir: 3000+ unit tests
09:57 ij1iao ** how to start writing test
09:58 plasmabal * examples/: 40+ integration tests
09:58 gugod -- the way you do bug report, is started from writing failed tests
09:58 gugod -- and pasted on irc, so that other committers will be impatient so that you'll have a committer permission in like 20 miniutes
09:58 plasmabal Pugs: built-in modules
09:59 plasmabal Pugs: Modules in porting
09:59 plasmabal * current 22 modules
09:59 plasmabal * coming sson: DI:PurePerl.....
09:59 kungfuftr buggery, good bit longer than 90 mins so fare
09:59 plasmabal "i have to demo this, this is important."
09:59 LCamel inline Haskell
09:59 obra is the perl6 YAML plan SYCK?
09:59 plasmabal "you can write haskell."
09:59 plasmabal Pugs: Embed other lang
09:59 kungfuftr buggery... that's what i mentioned earlier... so i suppose i'll have to do it... damn... DBI's huge
10:00 gugod -- ingy is still fighting on dynamic loader of inline
10:00 gugod -- even, embed perl5
10:00 * plasmabal give +10 sword to ingy
10:00 plasmabal Pugs: Internals
10:00 obra kungfuftr: convince tim to do DBI2::PP in perl6 ;)
10:00 ij1iao fighting ? struggle ? :p
10:00 gugod -- starting from main
10:01 gugod -- src/Main.hs
10:01 plasmabal Pugs: plan on 6.2
10:01 kungfuftr obra: well, i like a challenge... =0)
10:01 plasmabal * basic I/O objects
10:01 plasmabal * basic I/O objects and flow control
10:01 ij1iao * to-be-released
10:01 plasmabal pugs: plan on 6.28
10:01 plasmabal * OO kernel
10:02 plasmabal pugs: plan on 6.283
10:02 plasmabal * blah blah blah
10:02 plasmabal pugs: far shore
10:02 plasmabal Pugs: Let's do it together
10:02 plasmabal * port module
10:03 plasmabal * think about examples
10:03 plasmabal * write examples
10:03 plasmabal * translate documents
10:03 plasmabal * clean up (?) parrot imc
10:03 * mugwump will copy autrijus' idea for Tangram to go for 2.7182818... never get to 3 :)
10:03 plasmabal * learn haskell, improve pugs kernel
10:03 gugod -- you don't even need to know haskell to help perl6
10:03 plasmabal whoooo
10:03 gugod >clap< >clap< >clap<
10:03 plasmabal finish finally. XD
10:04 ij1iao tired
10:04 kungfuftr plasmabal++
10:04 cm plasmabal++ :o)
10:04 plasmabal :)
10:04 nothingmuch plasmabal++
10:04 scw plasmabal++
10:04 cm plasmabal & co, thanks
10:04 nothingmuch gugod++
10:04 LCamel mugwump: looks like metafont..
10:04 nothingmuch autrijus++
10:04 kungfuftr someone ask autrijus where we can send donations!
10:04 gugod yay, YAPC::Taipei fihished
10:04 nothingmuch kungfuftr: there's the PAR link
10:04 gugod YAPC::Asia for the next!
10:04 nothingmuch and i'm subscribed at $20 a month
10:04 nothingmuch i cna give you the link to that too
10:05 kungfuftr ah! gotcha
10:05 ij1iao YAPC::Asia in Tokyo
10:05 ij1iao has quit IRC ("leaving")
10:05 nothingmuch http://pugscode.org/donate.html
10:05 nothingmuch that's the subscription link
10:06 mjhsieh has left
10:06 kungfuftr hhhmmm... bah, will have to wait for now
10:06 cnhackTNT is now known as cnhackTNT|away
10:07 jabbot pugs - 1231 - S11 - modules - pseudocode
10:11 cm good night
10:12 cm has quit IRC ("free!")
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10:33 kungfuftr who ported Email-Envelope?
10:34 kungfuftr ah... iblech
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10:54 kungfuftr bugger... DBI::PurePerl is a bastard
10:56 Khisanth to port?
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11:02 kungfuftr yup
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11:41 luqui hi metaperl
11:41 metaperl hi luqui
11:42 luqui is make test broken for you?
11:42 luqui it seems to be assuming that I have pugs installed...
11:43 metaperl if youre asking me, I can check...
11:43 luqui yeah... you're the only one here, it seems
11:43 metaperl i'm doing make right now
11:43 metaperl after svn update
11:44 gaal luqui, are you using the tarball or the latest revision?
11:44 luqui latest rev
11:47 jabbot pugs - 1232 - Fixed syntax error in Context.hs.
11:47 gaal worksforme linux/6.4
11:47 luqui do you have it installed?
11:47 gaal luqui, does setting the environment help?
11:48 luqui setting the environment to...?
11:48 gaal http://pugs.kwiki.org/?FrequentlyAskedQuestions :
11:48 gaal export HARNESS_PERL=$PWD/pugs
11:48 gaal export PERL6LIB=ext/Test/lib
11:48 luqui oh, hey, probably
11:48 gaal it's still a bug, because make test shouldn't depend on that
11:49 gaal but doing should workaround the problem.
11:49 luqui works
11:49 rgs apparently in 6.0.13 Test.pm is installed under perl5 instead of perl6. Known bug ?
11:49 * gaal never make installed :)
11:49 luqui hmmm, I don't know
11:50 * luqui has been absent from the pugs world for a week
11:50 luqui which is an awful lot of time here...
11:50 * rgs svn ups
11:51 gaal a consolidated grep for #perl and p6-[compiler|language] would be cool.
11:51 gaal i need to go to a meeting. bye.
11:52 metaperl its trying to run /usr/bin/pugs instead of pugs in my local directory tree
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11:52 metaperl so it does'nt even start make test
11:52 luqui that's what was happening to me
11:52 luqui gaal has a workaround
11:52 rgs I can reproduce this as well
11:52 luqui something else is wrong...
11:52 luqui all the tests pass except for the rules ones
11:53 luqui wow...
11:53 luqui I wonder how many have been todoed
11:53 rgs is there a commiter here ?
11:53 luqui me
11:53 rgs in t/syntax/inplace.t the shebang line is wrong
11:53 rgs it needs to be pugs instead of perl
11:54 luqui okay
11:54 luqui any others?
11:55 luqui what's that grep option that prints files which don't match?
11:55 rgs t/oo/roles/properties.t (lists perl6)
11:55 rgs -v
11:55 luqui no, files.  and I just found it.  -L
11:55 rgs oh ok
11:58 luqui committed
11:58 rgs why isn't there any MANIFEST file ?
11:59 vladtz has joined #perl6
11:59 luqui there's a MANIFEST.SKIP
11:59 luqui so... I don't know
11:59 integral MANIFEST can be generated by make manifest
12:00 rgs ok
12:00 luqui r936 | ingy | Removing the MANIFEST: It always gets out of date, and is only needed for release.
12:01 luqui has work on BEGIN, er, begun?
12:02 cls_bsd_ pugs 6.0.13, good
12:03 rgs make pure_site_install doesn't take DESTDIR into account
12:03 * luqui wishes he knew anything about configure anything
12:05 vladtz has quit IRC ("Leaving")
12:05 * rgs sends patch
12:07 jabbot pugs - 1233 - s{#!/usr/bin/perl6?}{#!/usr/bin/pugs} in
12:07 luqui to p6c?
12:08 rgs yes
12:08 luqui yep
12:08 luqui there it is
12:09 luqui does the patch include the End. at the end?
12:09 rgs no. It's to make the life of patch(1) easier
12:09 luqui ohhhh....
12:09 luqui you can just run raw stuff through patch and it will pull it out?
12:10 luqui do I need a command line flag to do that?
12:10 rgs no, just pipe the mail through patch -p0
12:10 rgs and commit :)
12:10 luqui neato
12:11 rgs patch has been designed by someone who knew what "dwimmery" means
12:11 luqui gee, I wonder who that was?
12:13 luqui thanks, applied, btw
12:15 rgs woohoo
12:15 kungfuftr MANIFEST is only generated for releases
12:17 jabbot pugs - 1236 - Pugscc don't need to be used under pugs
12:17 jabbot pugs - 1235 - Support make DESTDIR=/... install, court
12:17 jabbot pugs - 1234 -  r1204@scwnb:  scw | 2005-03-26 13:57:43
12:21 rgs ok, another Makefile.PL patch
12:25 * luqui awaits arrival
12:25 rgs well, I'm trying to fix make test
12:29 rgs hmm, makemaker black magic...
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12:36 rgs for some reason Pugs::MakeMaker isn't run to fix the Makefile
12:37 jabbot pugs - 1237 - debian/ added.
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13:04 * luqui beds
13:04 luqui has quit IRC ("Leaving")
13:07 jabbot pugs - 1238 - Fix make test, thanks to rgs.
13:08 rgs yay.
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13:15 theorbtwo You know, throwing babelfish on these slides is hilarious.
13:27 * theorbtwo wonders if anybody saved the videos.
13:31 theorbtwo We have a debian dir now?
13:31 theorbtwo Cool!
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13:44 scw theorbtwo: I added it but I'm not really familiar with those stuff. And also, we have to find a DD to accept it :)
13:46 theorbtwo Well, we don't have to; we can build them locally.
13:48 scw yes, and I've do that http://www.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~b92103/pugs/
13:48 scw and also http://www.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~b92103/parrot/
13:48 gaal scw++
13:49 scw will do snapshot of svn and cvs HEAD every day
13:49 * theorbtwo pings nothingmuch
13:54 * nothingmuch pongs
13:54 nothingmuch did you see the graph thingy?
14:01 theorbtwo I saw the one on woobling, but not all changes seem to be checked in.
14:01 nothingmuch no, they aren't
14:01 nothingmuch and i didn't want to let it go till i was content
14:01 nothingmuch it was a bit of a crappy change
14:01 nothingmuch it caused some breakage
14:01 nothingmuch but since i'm at work i haven't looked at it
14:02 nothingmuch on the plus side, i'm going home in 2 mins
14:02 * theorbtwo nods.
14:02 nothingmuch but i can check it in anyway
14:02 theorbtwo I did notice some changes that are in, and I'm uncertian of the reason for them.
14:03 theorbtwo Oh, I see what you were doing now.
14:03 nothingmuch the ones to the testgraph?
14:03 nothingmuch it just makes it look a bit more uniform
14:03 theorbtwo Right, I see now.
14:04 nothingmuch so, you have 20 seconds
14:04 nothingmuch checkin?
14:04 theorbtwo Go for it.
14:04 theorbtwo I'll do some cleanup of them while you're on your way home.
14:05 nothingmuch ok, sent
14:05 nothingmuch next i'd like to use Text::VimColor for catalog_tests
14:06 nothingmuch and also add support for multiple test result consolidation
14:06 nothingmuch has quit IRC ()
14:07 jabbot pugs - 1239 - graph -> test line hack
14:07 theorbtwo I was thinking of using CSS mouseovers to properly display the test results -- they cut off and show as one line in everything but IE at present.
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14:42 nothingmuch evening
14:48 stevan hey nothingmuch, theorbtwo
14:48 stevan nice work on the testgraph stuff
14:48 stevan we should package that up for perl5 usage too :)
14:48 stevan gotta run,.... easter here,... later :)
14:48 nothingmuch yeah, i thought about forking it off pugs
14:48 stevan nothingmuch++
14:48 nothingmuch hola stevan
14:48 nothingmuch and mentioning it on perl-qa
14:48 stevan theorbtwo++
14:48 nothingmuch now i want to do consolidation
14:48 nothingmuch ciao stevan
14:48 nothingmuch have fun
14:48 stevan nothingmuch: do that
14:48 stevan it could be a very valuable tool
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15:06 obra win 24
15:08 nothingmuch stevan: ping
15:09 autrijus greetings!
15:09 autrijus I'm finally back to home.
15:10 gaal we all had lots of fun "hearing" plasmabal's translation of your talk :)
15:11 theorbtwo Allo, autrijus!
15:11 * theorbtwo is sorry he missed the live version.
15:11 autrijus that'st fine :)
15:11 nothingmuch hola autrijus
15:11 gaal if there's a cap, maybe we can author an srt.
15:12 autrijus so, I should've said that 80% from the middle two sections
15:12 autrijus that is 40% of total talk
15:12 autrijus is from allison's talk
15:12 autrijus url:
15:13 autrijus http://www.lohutok.net/talks/p6update.pdf
15:13 clkao autrijus++ # wonderful talk
15:14 gugod autrijus++ # compress 50 days of pugs into 2 hours
15:17 jabbot pugs - 1240 - * remove Disabled tests and stuff from m
15:17 autrijus :D
15:18 autrijus actually I took only about 20 minutes for pugs :)
15:18 gugod so that's 85% higher compression ratio
15:19 autrijus so! I'm implementing a new language!
15:19 autrijus a new Parser, AST, Compiler, Emitter
15:19 gaal bored with perl6, eh
15:19 autrijus it's Pugs all over again!
15:19 autrijus yes!
15:19 autrijus it's IMC!
15:20 autrijus the higher-level parrot assembly thing!
15:20 gaal bored with sleep, too
15:20 autrijus rgs: committer-bit-p
15:20 autrijus ?
15:20 rgs autrijus: er, why not.
15:21 autrijus mandrake.com email?
15:21 rgs rgarciasuarez at mandrakesoft.com
15:21 rgs how many committers are there now?
15:21 autrijus done. welcome aboard!
15:22 mugwump I'm number 26 :)
15:22 autrijus you're the 50th I think.
15:23 autrijus rgs: see http://wagner.elixus.org/~a​utrijus/p6tu/slide66a.html
15:23 rgs nicely linear.
15:23 rgs resistance is futile.
15:25 autrijus another graph: http://wagner.elixus.org/~a​utrijus/p6tu/slide63a.html
15:25 autrijus SVK::Churn++
15:25 autrijus gugod++
15:26 elmex has joined #perl6
15:27 elmex hi
15:27 gaal hi elmex
15:27 elmex i love typed languages :) like perl
15:28 autrijus yes!
15:28 elmex my int $i; my string $s; ...
15:29 elmex and will be beatiful for people who are using their own types in every module
15:29 autrijus sure.
15:29 elmex my MyOwnCoolIntWhichIsIncompatibleToAnyOther
15:32 elmex i mena, can i pass my own int's for example to a foreign module, which uses special signatures in it's methods?
15:32 elmex or maybe any object which act's like an int?
15:36 autrijus scw: may I move debian/ to util/ ?
15:36 autrijus I'm not comfortable with freebsd/ and win32/ etc
15:37 gaal i've never seen it anywhere but the top level of a source tree
15:37 autrijus really?
15:37 autrijus won't work at all in anywhere but toplevel?
15:37 gaal maybe it's possible, with some extra configuration
15:37 elmex hm, no idea?
15:38 autrijus anyone got tuits to check? :)
15:43 gaal the dpkg-deb manpage says "Creates a debian archive from the filesystem tree stored in directory.   directory  must  have  a DEBIAN  subdirectory". so it doesn't sound possible
15:43 gaal unless the spec files refer to ../paths
15:43 gaal but i don't know if that works
15:44 autrijus ok. in that case it remains, but I'm not shipping it with MANIFEST
15:44 gaal there doesn't seem to be an option for more flexible locations.
15:44 autrijus added it to MANIFEST.SKIP.
15:45 gaal I'll add a note to the README saying why this is omitted from the tarball and a very short explanation of how to get it anyway
15:45 gaal if that's okay with you
15:45 gaal you tag releases in svn, right?
15:46 skypp has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
15:47 jabbot pugs - 1241 - * do not ship debian/ with tarball
15:48 rgs make test is broken again.
15:48 autrijus how?
15:48 rgs t/var/type.................................sh: /home/rafael/foreign/pugs/blib6/script/pugs: No such file or directory
15:49 rgs can't run t/var/type.t. No such file or directory
15:49 gaal forgetting PERL_HARNESS again apparently
15:50 gaal rgs, does the ol' workaround work? export PERL_HARNESS=$PWD/pugs
15:51 rgs well, pugs goes in blib instead of blib6. or the reverse
15:52 gaal in my box it just ends up at the tree root too, and i use that one for the tests
15:55 rgs "pugs" is supposed to be built in blib/ right ? not in blib6 ?
16:01 luqui has joined #perl6
16:03 * rgs commits
16:04 autrijus rgs++
16:05 clkao autrijus: want to give me short example and pointer to inlining c with callbacks and invoking function pointers?
16:05 rgs well, make test now runs from a clean build, but I feel like a bear in a porcelaine shop
16:05 gaal i think you mean you feel like the ownder of said shop
16:05 * rgs notices that his name is already correctly spelled in utf-8 in AUTHORS :))
16:07 jabbot pugs - 1242 - * pugs (and other scripts) are preinstal
16:08 autrijus clkao: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/​cvs-ghc/2000-November/006777.html
16:08 autrijus clkao: more uptodate examples are possible
16:08 autrijus ask #haskell
16:08 clkao year 2000!
16:17 * rgs commits again
16:17 jabbot pugs - 1243 - * Remove temporary files left by tests
16:17 rgs it's addictive.
16:20 Khisanth gooood :)
16:27 jabbot pugs - 1244 - Heavy Magic
16:29 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
16:37 jabbot pugs - 1245 - drunky crow
16:43 theorbtwo rgs: The utf8 names I steal from CPAN when I can.
16:44 rgs nice.
16:47 jabbot pugs - 1246 - Get object files to install in right pla
16:51 Corion has joined #perl6
16:56 nothingmuch i think we better not use it's HTML backend, but the perl array or xml ones
16:56 nothingmuch vim color is hard to deal with
16:56 nothingmuch that way it's easier to promote the backlinks
16:57 gaal ?
16:57 * theorbtwo checks in some CSS goodness -- please test with more browsers.
16:57 theorbtwo (Recent firefox and opera test OK, haven't tried IE...)
16:58 gaal to2, can you give me a url? i'm not near something that can generate tests
16:58 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
16:59 theorbtwo http://desert-island.dynod​ns.net/misc/testgraph.html
16:59 gaal wide lines on ff/win32
17:00 gaal having the diag info inthe boxes is way cool though!
17:00 theorbtwo Damn... yeah, I loaded too quick...
17:00 theorbtwo It's not supposed to -- it's supposed to show them on mouseover.
17:01 gaal and the tooltip is incorrectly located
17:01 theorbtwo For some reason, some lines are producing very strange HTML.
17:01 gaal this is ff. let me see in msie
17:01 theorbtwo It's not incorrectly located; I couldn't figure out how to place it anywhere better without modifying flow as you mouseover, which makes moving the mouse do strange things.
17:02 gaal you look like you've been slashdotted :)
17:03 gaal the mouseover should probably be on the td, not the text inside it (if that's even possible)
17:03 theorbtwo It's not.
17:03 gaal msie doesn't show any tooltips :(
17:04 theorbtwo It doesn't show complete junk, though?
17:04 gaal nope
17:04 gaal it looks like the old version of the report
17:04 metaperl has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
17:04 mugwump mmm, junk
17:04 theorbtwo mugwump?
17:04 gaal could it be the boxen with text in them had unescaped "s ?
17:05 theorbtwo Unescaped quotes shouldn't matter; it's HTML now, not an attribute.
17:05 ingy hola
17:05 gaal firefox++; # "view selection source"
17:06 theorbtwo hola, ingy.
17:06 theorbtwo Back from your Asian tour?
17:07 jabbot pugs - 1247 - testgraph: CSS mouseover goodness.
17:07 metaperl has joined #perl6
17:07 ingy no, still here
17:07 ingy for another 9 days!
17:09 theorbtwo Oh, wow!
17:10 theorbtwo Oh: Do you know if the pugs hackfest around YAPC::NA is planned for /before/ or /after/?
17:11 autrijus before.
17:11 gaal to2, looks good now, but there are still a few bugs with ff
17:11 autrijus somebody offered a nice place.
17:11 autrijus need to talk more
17:11 gaal t/builtins/strings/append.t - test 4
17:12 gaal also, on msie subtests are not clickable
17:13 gaal corection: they *are cliclable*, but the clickable area is tiny
17:13 theorbtwo Hmm, that's the same test I'm seeing it on, but I haven't the foggiest clue why it's generating the bumb HTML for those few tests.
17:13 gaal and left-justified
17:14 gaal but it's better now than your previous html. what changed?
17:14 Corion theorbtwo: Niiice CSS/html !
17:14 theorbtwo t/oo/roles/basic.t 5, t/operators/pipe.t 5, t/rules/perl5.t 133&554...
17:15 gaal i mean from five minutes ago, from before your ci
17:16 Corion theorbtwo: But it would be better if the tooltip showed below the mouse cursor instead on the left lower corner, because for the pugsrun/ tests, there are only two tests and I have to scroll too far to see both the test and the output
17:16 theorbtwo Mostly CSS.
17:16 Corion (but that'll involve JS)
17:16 theorbtwo Doesn't neccessarly need JS, just better CSS hacks.
17:17 jabbot pugs - 1248 - * semi-working external haskell; needs t
17:17 theorbtwo But the problem is that there's a few tests producing bum HTML for some odd reason that busts the layout.
17:17 theorbtwo gaal, mostly the CSS.
17:18 miyagawa has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
17:26 autrijus journal up...
17:27 autrijus but not really summarized any of your amazing development
17:27 autrijus I'm too drunk :-/
17:27 autrijus will try to make up tomorrow.
17:27 mugwump cheap date ;)
17:27 autrijus g'night!
17:27 autrijus verily.
17:30 Corion On the one photo I saw of autrijus, he looked really tired :)
17:31 obra heh
17:31 theorbtwo Eeep, the HTML looks fine in less, but quite messed up in view source.
17:37 jabbot pugs - 1249 - New logo?
17:39 Jouke has quit IRC ()
17:42 autrijus mugwump: can you post a png for the logo?
17:43 * autrijus stops downloading gimp
17:43 obra what's it start as?
17:44 * obra has the gimp here ;)
17:44 autrijus docs/phd.xcf
17:44 autrijus in pugs
17:44 obra https server still dead
17:44 obra url?
17:44 autrijus just s/https/http/
17:45 obra k. svn catted it
17:46 obra whoa. gimp 2.2 is different
17:47 pyr3 has quit IRC ("Leaving")
17:47 obra fsck.com/~jesse/hd.png
17:47 obra phd
17:49 autrijus er. eh. except I'm not a PhD :p
17:49 autrijus mugwump: clever work, tho
17:50 autrijus mugwump: although I don't think it fits in docs :)
17:51 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("leafChat IRC client: http://www.leafdigital.com/Software/leafChat/")
17:54 * theorbtwo guesses Larry probably does hold a PHD.
17:55 Khisanth don't think so :p
17:57 jabbot pugs - 1250 - Add TODO test for untangling -c and -e o
17:57 theorbtwo "Before he committed to a lifetime of systems    administration and associated hacking, he and his wife were graduate students    in the linguistics department at UC-Berkeley. "
17:57 theorbtwo ...but I don't know if he graduated.
17:57 Corion ... untangling -c and -e handling will be ugly until we move to Perl parsing of the command line :)
17:59 theorbtwo He is a linguist in human as well as machine languages, reads classical Greek, and studied these as well as Chemistry and Music at Seattle Pacific University, U.C. Berkeley, and U.C.L.A.
17:59 * theorbtwo shrugs.
17:59 theorbtwo There's a tendency, I've found, to want to split education into well-defined blocks called degrees.
18:00 elmex how many levels of intermediat languages will there be between perl6 and parrot? imc, pasm, bytecode?
18:00 theorbtwo Either you have a PHD or you don't; there is an implication that there is no value to going to grad school without getting a graduate degree, which isn't the case...
18:00 theorbtwo Depends where you place the somewhat arbitrary lines of what parrot is and what perl6 is.
18:01 autrijus <- junior high school dropout.
18:01 elmex parrot is that thing that isn't finished....
18:01 autrijus elmex: uh, no. it's pugs that isn't finished :)
18:01 Odin- Neither is parrot, really. ;)
18:01 elmex ah, i see, parrot is already rocksolid and finished ;)
18:01 autrijus parrot is in remarkably bettter shape than pugs (or perl6)
18:02 autrijus maturity wise.
18:02 autrijus it's quite enough for perl 6 to target.
18:02 elmex well, and what levels of intermediat languages will there be ?
18:02 Odin- Parrot needs something on top of it, to become useful. ;)
18:02 autrijus we generate parrot-ast
18:02 autrijus which is compiled to imc
18:02 autrijus then to pasm
18:02 autrijus then to pbc.
18:03 gaal has left
18:03 elmex that are heck of much levels, how do they want to make that fast ? (eg. like perl5?)
18:03 theorbtwo elmex: By having fast compilers for each step, and by caching when you can.
18:03 Corion Pugs is what forces the rest of the "Perl-6-world" to move, at least for now
18:04 elmex theorbtwo: wow, cool ;) that sounds 'easy'
18:04 Corion I say, eliminate them all and use Haskell as the base :)))
18:04 Corion elmex: I look forward to a "port" of Coro to Pugs ! :)
18:05 elmex Corion: the coro author/programmer, marc lehmann sits right next to me ;)
18:05 Corion elmex: Ah, I thought you _were_ him (due to your login name) :)
18:05 Corion elmex: So poke him a bit!
18:05 elmex lol ;)
18:06 elmex Corion: he doesn't know perl6 good enough yet
18:06 Corion elmex: Bah! I don't know Perl6 either - I just program it as if I were programming in Perl5 :)
18:06 elmex or: he would know it, if he had time. but we're busy with reallife work atm
18:06 justatheory has joined #perl6
18:07 Corion elmex: Ah - so you're not at the Breakpoint demo party :)
18:07 elmex what thing?
18:07 elmex whereis taht
18:07 autrijus elmex: so, pugs is damned fast.
18:07 autrijus on parrot.
18:07 autrijus and not exactly that fast on GHC.
18:08 elmex autrijus: pugs compiles to parrot already?
18:08 autrijus and it's much easier to optimize for parrot than for C--/GHC.
18:08 autrijus elmex: err sure. pugs --runparrot examples/mandel.p6
18:08 Corion elmex: The Breakpoint party is/was every Easter somewhere on the Rhine river. Marc might know it :)
18:08 elmex autrijus: ah
18:08 autrijus that's like two or three days ago.
18:08 elmex oh
18:09 elmex Corion: he says he doesn't know ;) but he can;t remember cleanly
18:09 elmex exactly
18:09 autrijus elmex: oh, say hi to marc for me, too.
18:09 autrijus I'm happy I no longer has to bother him with serializable continuations.
18:09 Corion autrijus: :))))
18:09 autrijus because it's much easier to do in pugs and parrot.
18:10 schmorp has joined #perl6
18:10 elmex autrijus: hi back
18:10 autrijus hi schmorp!
18:10 schmorp autrijus: hi :)
18:10 Corion Hi schmorp!
18:11 schmorp .. i join and the discussion dies... i am too late :)
18:12 Corion schmorp: Naah - I was just saying that I looked forward to the Perl6 port of Coro :))
18:13 theorbtwo autrijus: Would running the test suite under the pugscc --run --foo be useful, for various foos?
18:13 kcwu hi schmorp!
18:13 Corion ... half-joking, as Coroutines are built-in in Perl6 I think, but I don't read the docs :)
18:13 pjcj autrijus: I have posted about coverage requirements to p6c, but I suspect it is in a moderation queue somewhere.  Let me know if you need it before it shows up.
18:13 autrijus okay. I'll sleep soonish.
18:14 autrijus theorbtwo: not yet. need to finish on the fly compilation first
18:14 autrijus theorbtwo: then we may need a parrot run and a haskell run.
18:14 * theorbtwo nods.
18:14 schmorp Corion: s/port/rewrite/ would probably be more realistic
18:14 schmorp Corion: how does parrot handle reentrancy problems?
18:15 autrijus Coro is builtin in perl6 as lazy given/take no?
18:15 Corion schmorp: Dunno - I haven't done any internals work
18:15 autrijus and is in parrot as ./classes/coroutine.pmc
18:15 autrijus also see ./t/pmc/coroutine.t
18:15 autrijus er, I mean gather/take
18:15 schmorp autrijus: yes, but how does it handle the c stack switches?
18:16 theorbtwo It should be possible to do it just by changing the test harness var.
18:16 autrijus schmorp: see parrot/classes/coroutine.c :D
18:17 autrijus (which is a funny way to say "I don't know and don't care as long as it works")
18:18 schmorp i don't think parrto will ever do more than "just work"
18:18 autrijus sure.
18:18 autrijus parrot has this very strong Right Thing design feeling.
18:19 elmex i've a bad feling
18:19 schmorp seriously? to me it lookas more as if a few people had their first try at doing a VM by emulating real hardware
18:19 autrijus seriously.
18:20 autrijus I had this kaffe main committer friend looking at parrot yesterday
18:20 autrijus he thinks parrot should be taught in schools as the example of how to design a VM right.
18:20 autrijus (I was surprised how good it is when I first looked at it seriously last week.)
18:20 schmorp strange - it is so inefficient iwth regards to JIT and compilation
18:20 autrijus *shrug* it worksforme. :)
18:20 schmorp for example, you need to dor egister allocation at least twice
18:20 autrijus and is faster than perl5 even if unannotated.
18:21 autrijus <- doesn't want much.
18:21 schmorp well, that is relatively easy :->
18:21 autrijus mmm maybe it is, but perl5 is actually the faster of the scripting languages.
18:22 schmorp i wonder how fast it would be if designed better
18:23 autrijus it can always use more hack :)
18:23 rgs perl 5.9 is faster than 5.8.
18:23 schmorp it is not question of mroe hack, it is a question of less hack
18:23 autrijus hack, as in improvement
18:23 autrijus not as in kluge.
18:23 schmorp yes
18:24 autrijus but really, it's fast enough for me, and I think I like how easy it is to generate imc, so I've got no complaints.
18:24 autrijus if you can find ways to improve its performance or redo something that runs imc but faster
18:24 autrijus I'm all ears :D
18:24 schmorp i just would have hoped that the parrot people would learn from the existing results we know about jit compilers and such
18:24 pjcj I suspect chip will consider even radical design changes
18:24 autrijus pjcj: right.
18:24 theorbtwo That was a large part of the point of making it register-based.
18:25 schmorp yes, so to jit compile parrot code one has to re-do register allocation another time
18:25 schmorp also, a register is not faster than memory in a vm
18:25 schmorp etc..
18:25 schmorp (but this is the wrong channel for parrot rants :)
18:26 autrijus right.
18:26 autrijus and I hope rants results in code :)
18:26 rafl has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
18:27 jabbot pugs - 1251 - One more permutation of '-c -e' gets now
18:27 schmorp unfortunately, not likely with me and parrot (i'd like, but i have too many things going :()
18:27 elmex hehe, if i would be mighty and wise enough to do a VM and JIT and allthat i would od it ;) *G*
18:28 autrijus elmex: "learn" :)
18:28 schmorp hmm, it seems parrot doesn'T handle reentrancy when coroutines are active
18:28 autrijus it's actually quite learnable. I learned a lot just by reading docs.
18:28 autrijus schmorp: oh, and I'm going to write a imcc implementation this week.
18:28 autrijus imc, rather.
18:29 elmex autrijus: i need many many years to do that
18:29 elmex and then, perl7 will be out
18:29 autrijus and then you can help!
18:30 schmorp yes, elme xis very gifted :)=
18:31 justatheory has quit IRC ()
18:32 schmorp autrijus: imc is a good target, it's not that efficient due to the extra layer, but it makes it possible to replace aprrot by a completely different design
18:32 autrijus yes.
18:33 autrijus or have switchable runcores or something.
18:33 autrijus it's very easy to implement imc :)
18:35 justatheory has joined #perl6
18:36 oylenshpeegul has joined #perl6
18:36 autrijus hi oylenshpeegul.
18:36 schmorp maybe in a yaer or so i'll implement my long-term-plan, using gcc to compile imc "just in time"
18:36 oylenshpeegul hi
18:36 autrijus that would be so nice.
18:36 autrijus schmorp++ # in advance
18:36 elmex lol
18:36 schmorp i am htinking about that for some years now, no matter how long startup tiems get
18:37 schmorp schmorp++ # need no such thing
18:37 perlbot What kind of idiot karmas himself?  Your kind of idiot!
18:37 schmorp was it reste at leats?
18:38 elmex perlbot: karma schmorp
18:38 jabbot elmex: schmorp has karma of 2
18:38 perlbot schmorp doesn't have any karma
18:38 elmex ?Q
18:38 elmex !
18:38 elmex elmex++
18:38 perlbot What kind of idiot karmas himself?  Your kind of idiot!
18:38 elmex perlbot: karma elmex
18:38 jabbot elmex: elmex has karma of 3
18:38 perlbot elmex doesn't have any karma
18:39 schmorp aahh
18:39 elmex lol, i rock
18:42 autrijus IMCC lexer translated
18:42 autrijus stub IMCC.hs too:
18:43 autrijus    All that is gold does not glitter,
18:43 autrijus    Not all those who wander are lost;
18:43 autrijus    The old that is strong does not wither,
18:43 autrijus    Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
18:43 autrijus now sleep. see you tomorrow. :) &
18:44 elmex who does come up with thos cites?
18:44 autrijus me.
18:44 elmex why not cite bible?
18:44 schmorp cu
18:45 schmorp has left
18:45 autrijus because it is a perl cultural tradition to cite tolkien.
18:45 autrijus see perl5's source code.
18:45 elmex why
18:45 autrijus ask larry.
18:45 theorbtwo Interesting side note: Larry is a wacko bible freak, and chose to use Tolkien quotes.
18:46 autrijus he is also a wacko middle earth freak.
18:46 autrijus (as is jhi, as am I)
18:46 rgs jhi is a wacko discworld freak.
18:46 autrijus rgs: what kind of wacko freak are you?
18:46 vladtz has joined #perl6
18:47 jabbot pugs - 1252 - * transcribed IMCC lexer
18:47 rgs I'm not a freak !
18:47 Corion ook
18:48 rgs well, let's assume I'm a wacko jazz freak. Difficult to quote.
18:48 Corion I could add some wacko quotes from X-Men and Sandman comics. Hmmm ;-)
18:48 oylenshpeegul has left
18:48 Corion rgs: Ah, bababadudbababdububababa # freejazz
18:48 oylenshpeegul has joined #perl6
18:48 elmex i never liked lord of the ringens much
18:48 oylenshpeegul has left
18:49 rgs neither did I, to be honest. But quotes are cool.
18:49 justatheory has quit IRC ()
18:49 elmex childisch :)
18:49 rgs that's how the perl subculture comes into existence.
18:49 elmex but ... i'm a child still myself
18:50 rgs elmex: are you german ?
18:50 elmex lol, yes
18:50 elmex my english isn't the best
18:50 rgs you make german mispellings :)
18:50 elmex those where only typos
18:51 elmex because i wrote it too quick
18:51 rgs i make french mispellings too. exemple, connexion.
18:52 elmex heh
18:53 theorbtwo Odd, I wouldn't think ringens would be a german typo -- the german title is Herr der Ringe, so I should think it'd get mistylped ringes.
18:54 elmex lol, indeed
18:54 rgs theorbtwo: "childisch"
18:54 elmex that was misspelling on purpose
18:54 pjcj Lord of the Rings is on Swiss, Austrian and German TV at the moment.  Spookily enough.
18:54 rgs _and_ on French TV.
18:55 * theorbtwo shrugs -- I have all three on extended ed DVD.
18:55 autrijus so, if leo shows up on #perl6 here later and I'm asleep, please keep him comfortable and happy :)
18:55 * autrijus waves &
18:55 theorbtwo Sleep well, autrijus.
18:55 pjcj I obviously don't get that French channel, but three showing the same film is enough.
18:57 theorbtwo We only get the Austrian and German channels here, and ORF1 barely comes in.
18:58 Corion Heh. Mad props to GHC / Haskell - it detects edge cases of your function definitions ;-)
18:59 pjcj leo on irc?!
19:06 gaal has joined #perl6
19:09 Corion Hi gaal!
19:10 Corion I'm adding/cleaning the Haskell command line handling, as an exercise :)
19:10 gaal Corion++
19:12 gaal If you hadn't beat me to it, I'd try it myself
19:13 * theorbtwo ponders... the interface with the mouseover thingy directly below the cell is somewhat easier to read, but makes navigation harder.
19:14 theorbtwo (Because the tip obscures the next one down, so you have to mouse out and then back over to see the tip of that one.
19:14 Corion gaal: Feel free to also work on it :)
19:14 theorbtwo Also, I have no clue how to work around this firefox bug.
19:14 theorbtwo (And I'm fairly certian that's what it is.)
19:14 Corion theorbtwo: Hmm - maybe make it appear above instead - as most people will navigate downwards :))
19:15 theorbtwo That would imply that I can figure out how to do that.
19:15 theorbtwo CSS positioning seems to behave more like a black art then a well-specified language.
19:16 Corion theorbtwo: Aiee :-) Well - consider simply using the overlib JS package that creates JS tooltips that appear right-down of the mouse
19:16 theorbtwo JS--
19:17 Corion theorbtwo: Ah, yes - I've sold part of my soul to the gods of JS, true ...
19:18 Corion theorbtwo: But overlib most likely takes care of the ugly parts. On the other hand, that doesn't degrade nicely for non-JS browsers.
19:18 Corion ... maybe see what Eric Meyer has to offer in his ComplexSpiral demos ?
19:18 theorbtwo Ah-ha!
19:19 theorbtwo Some of my HTMLification regexes were missing /g options.
19:19 gaal Corion: Autrijus mentioned GetOpt, which has docs at http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/htm​l/libraries/Cabal/Distribution.GetOpt.html
19:19 saorge has joined #perl6
19:20 Corion gaal: Will look at these :)
19:20 gaal it it's GNUish, I think, so it certainly doesn't do what we want, but if like me you need plenty of exaples, it might help
19:20 gaal ..doesn't do *all* we want
19:21 Corion gaal: I'll look if it does proper collecting of multiple -e fragments, which makes all the rest ugly :)
19:23 gaal i doubt it.
19:25 Corion gaal: Ugh :)
19:25 gaal actually he was talking about System.Console.GetOpt <http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html​/libraries/base/System.Console.GetOpt.html> but at a glance it looks pretty much the same thing.
19:26 gaal well, p5's command line is pretty funky.
19:26 gaal you need potentially a specifyable dispatch table.
19:26 gaal well, if you want to write a library for it
19:26 gaal if you don't, you just need a dispatch table :)
19:28 vladtz hello, I was looking at the goto tests and noticed that you can't use return without a value
19:29 gaal i wrote them, let me see
19:29 Corion gaal: Hmmm. Currently I'm thinking of collecting all the "special" stuff in Named Field or whatever. But first, I want to flesh out -ce and -c -e and -e print -c (which doesn't work)
19:29 gaal btw they're all commented out because of a hard parsefail
19:29 vladtz I have an adjusted gotos test, which run's 6/8 tests Iĺl paste 'm
19:30 gaal Corion: do declustering in one swoop maybe, instead of trying to parse every combination separately.
19:30 pasteling "vladtz" at 80.127.84.50 pasted "goto return (void)" (42 lines, 825B) at http://sial.org/pbot/8670
19:31 Corion gaal: Yep - that's what I'm currently doing :) Maybe I should simply sort the options before parsing them :)))
19:31 gaal no no, don't do that
19:31 Corion gaal: But first, I'll have to get Pugs into a compilable state again before committing :)
19:31 Corion gaal: Why not?
19:31 gaal some opts have very short effect which can then be changed
19:31 gaal man perlrun and read -l and -0 carefully
19:32 vladtz gaal: the missing value on return caused the parsefail
19:32 gaal vladtz++, good catch, thanks.
19:32 gaal though the error coordinates were messed up
19:32 vladtz your welcome
19:32 Corion gaal: Hmm - I thought that C<-l> and C<-0> merely inserted Perl code ?
19:33 gaal and also, putting this in eval didn't help
19:33 Corion (via perl -MO=Deparse -le "print")
19:33 gaal no, see perl.c in p5
19:33 gaal even if they did
19:34 gaal you couldn't rearrange its order and maintain correctness
19:34 Corion gaal: Ah, C source diving :( I had hoped to (later) just replace C<-l> by C< -e "BEGIN{...}" >
19:34 gaal s/though// somewhere up there
19:34 Corion gaal: No - I plan to keep all C<-e>, C<-l>, C<-0> arguments in their relative order (and what other cases there are).
19:35 Corion gaal: Well, "plan" is a big word for it :)
19:35 Corion gaal: But stripping out the C<-c>, C<-w> and C<-d> stuff would make that check much more convenient, true!
19:36 gaal well, arguably this (declerative -l, -0) isn't a very important feature so perhaps you could bring it up for retirement on p6l? the command line isn't specced yet
19:37 gaal vladtz, did you commit?
19:37 gaal or shall i?
19:37 vladtz please do, I have no comit access
19:37 gaal ah. that should definitely change :)
19:37 gaal any metacommiters around?
19:38 gaal now that you've made it parse, there are plenty of more things to test with goto :)
19:39 theorbtwo Hmm?
19:39 Corion gaal: Never! I want -l and -0 as I use them often. In fact, my super-secret plan is the C<-g> option, which will make Pugs act mostly like grep.
19:40 theorbtwo vladtz, email?
19:40 gaal oh, -l and -0 of course, but maybe remove -0nnn -e 'code' -0 -mmm -e 'more'
19:41 gaal that example may not in fact be a good one
19:42 Corion gaal: I doubt that this works under P5 currently, but it would be nice to make it work under P6 :)
19:42 Corion gaal: (a bit overboard, maybe :) )
19:42 vladtz [email@hidden.address]
19:42 elmex has quit IRC ("bbl")
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19:47 jabbot pugs - 1253 - Added TODO test for unknown command line
19:47 gaal reading it again, it looks like the main issue is that the order of -l and -0 matters, and some weird interactions may occur between the actual command line and the shebang line.
19:47 Corion gaal: Ah well - those fine points can be cleaned up later :)
19:47 gaal we need to remember the shebang line, because the kernel doesn't do that for us on windows
19:47 Corion Is there anything like the "part()" function for Haskell, to part one list into two (or more) buckets ?
19:48 Corion gaal: Ah, but the shebang "line" is available via getArgs() anyway :)
19:48 * Corion goes looking in the Prelude docs
19:49 gaal http://zvon.org/other/haskell/Outputprelude/ - the other day i saw exactly what you're looking for
19:49 gaal but i forgot what it was :)
19:49 Corion gaal: I forgot as well :)
19:50 Corion gaal: But I find no inverse function of "zip" or a "grep" into multiple lists there ...
19:50 gaal no multiple return values in haskell
19:51 gaal you can return a list of course
19:51 gaal but not two
19:51 Corion gaal: Bah. Stupid language :(
19:51 gaal so you can return [[a], [b]]
19:51 gaal :)
19:51 elmex has quit IRC ("windows saugt, leider net so wie ne frau")
19:51 Corion gaal: Yeah,
19:51 theorbtwo Corion, you can only return one list in perl, too.
19:51 Corion gaal: part() will be a good exercise in generic/general Haskell, and it'll make the later porting to Perl6 easier
19:52 gaal heh
19:52 Corion theorbtwo: True, but at least I have the choice of returning a list or a reference to a list, while in Haskell, I have to return a reference to a list :)
19:52 gaal he's hot a point there, to2 does
19:53 elmex has joined #perl6
19:54 gaal heh, Corion, you (and I) were looking for partition :)
19:54 gaal in List
19:54 Corion gaal: Aaah ! One less exercise to do for me :)
19:55 gaal and if you want two tuples, use break
19:55 gaal hey you can still write it yourself :)
19:58 vladtz theorbtwo: can you remove my e-mail from the log (silly me)?
19:58 Corion gaal: I'll be starting with sortBy(), which implements a stable sorting mechanism, which is what I'll want/need :)
19:58 theorbtwo No, I don't have access to that.
19:58 vladtz pitty
19:59 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Sleep [Time wasted online: 3hrs 46secs]")
20:00 theorbtwo vladtz, you should be able to checkin now.  Please add yourself to AUTHORS as well.
20:01 theorbtwo Sorry I was so slow; Bond is distracting.
20:02 gaal but please svn up before you do more work on goto, i just checked in your fix.
20:07 jabbot pugs - 1254 - fixed syntax error causing parsefail (vl
20:12 vladtz gaal: just missed your message, backed out, did you add the test for empty return somewhere?
20:13 gaal as a parsefail? no, good idea
20:13 gaal can you add it?
20:13 gaal prolly in t/syntax or maybe t/subroutine
20:13 gaal the former, actually.
20:13 vladtz yes Iĺl add it to goto.t?
20:14 gaal no, since it's probably isolatable.
20:14 vladtz subroutine (always confused by former and latter).
20:15 gaal i meant syntax :) but whichever makes more sense to you. remember to use fail("FIXME parsefail") if it still hard-parsefails.
20:18 vladtz it fits nicely into t/subroutines/sub_return_values.t
20:19 gaal cool
20:23 vladtz zzzzzzz
20:24 khisanth_ has joined #perl6
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20:37 jabbot pugs - 1256 -
20:37 jabbot pugs - 1255 -
20:38 * theorbtwo 's going to be AFK for at least an hour, possibly much longer -- I'm going to ci my current testgraph stuff -- it's certianly not bugless, but no more buggy then the current.
20:42 kungfuftr evening all
20:46 Corion Hmm. Sorting the command line seems to "work", at least in my testbed ...
20:47 jabbot pugs - 1257 - testgraph: CSS and HTML-escaping updates
20:48 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
20:54 cm has joined #perl6
20:54 cm hello
20:54 Corion lr!
21:06 Corion Yay! My -c / -e option sorter seems to pass its TODO tests now, at the price of a Haskell warning :)
21:07 gaal congrats, Corion :)
21:07 pjcj u
21:07 Corion gaal: Thanks - I haven't tested it yet against the rest of the suite :))
21:08 Limbic_Region hey Corion
21:08 Corion Hi li!
21:08 Corion err - lr, I meant :)
21:08 * gaal &
21:09 Limbic_Region tis ok
21:09 Corion It's some ugly code I've created there, but it should be better than what we have now :)
21:11 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
21:19 fritzz has joined #perl6
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21:26 kungfuftr pugscode.org <<Overview Journal>> | pugs.kwiki.org | logged: http://xrl.us/e98m | FBSD_4.11:r1257(2/3212) win2k:r1197(105/3116) Linux:r1197(105/3116) MacOSX:r1197(105/3116) **[793 tests TODO]**
21:27 kungfuftr changes topic to: pugscode.org <<Overview Journal>> | pugs.kwiki.org | logged: http://xrl.us/e98m | FBSD_4.11:r1257(2/3212) win2k:r1197(105/3116) Linux:r1197(105/3116) MacOSX:r1197(105/3116) **[793 tests TODO]**
21:27 kungfuftr bah
21:27 cm ..been kung-fu fighting..
21:28 kungfuftr HUH!
21:28 * fritzz install pubs atm
21:28 fritzz on windows ...
21:28 fritzz :|
21:29 kungfuftr fritzz: that'll be a pint of bitter for me then
21:29 fritzz hehe
21:29 elmex has joined #perl6
21:30 Corion Shouldn't this be valid Perl6 code? ("-h", "--help").map():{ $_, "-w $_", "$_ -w", "-w $_ -w" }
21:30 Corion (that is, (list).map(){block} ? )
21:32 elmex has quit IRC (Client Quit)
21:33 fritzz i just installed GHC
21:33 fritzz added it to my path
21:34 fritzz but when i perl Makefile.pl: *** Cannot find a runnable 'ghc' from path
21:34 fritzz when i type ghc, its there ...
21:34 cm reboot :D
21:34 fritzz lol
21:34 cm close the console
21:35 cm open it again
21:35 fritzz i did
21:35 cm for that the environment variables get updated.. :|
21:35 cm hmm
21:35 fritzz if i type ghc, i can reach the bin
21:35 cm bizarreness
21:35 fritzz ghc: no input files
21:35 fritzz yup yup
21:36 Limbic_Region is there a space in the path to where ghc is?
21:37 Limbic_Region IIRC, there is/was a bug with that
21:37 * Corion writes a parsefail todo test to test for C<< ("foo","bar").map() >>, because C<< ("foo","bar").sort() >> works :)
21:38 Corion What is the protocol for adding parse fail tests like mine above?
21:38 fritzz ill just reboot
21:38 fritzz darn windowzz !
21:38 fritzz has quit IRC ()
21:38 Limbic_Region Corion - I will search the channel log
21:39 Corion Limbic_Region: Thanks!
21:39 Limbic_Region I remember there being something said about not commenting it out as it will never be uncommented
21:40 kungfuftr Corion: todo_eval ?
21:40 Corion kungfuftr: Don't ask me :) I'll use whatever you suggest :)
21:42 * Limbic_Region thinks kungfuftr is correct Corion - still searching though
21:43 Limbic_Region 2087 [21:14] <gaal> test writers: please mark your failing tests (those that must be commented out because even eval doesn't protect from them) with "fail('FIXME: parsefail');"
21:43 fritzz has joined #perl6
21:43 fritzz has left
21:43 Limbic_Region that was on 2005-03-16
21:43 Limbic_Region and then later on
21:43 fritzz has joined #perl6
21:43 fritzz jeez
21:43 fritzz same thing after a reboot
21:44 cm might it be the spaes? :o
21:44 Limbic_Region on the 17th
21:44 Limbic_Region it looks like nothingmuch added the todo_eval stuff Corion
21:44 fritzz i added it to the user path, let me try with the system path
21:44 Limbic_Region fritzz - for the 3rd time - are there spaces in the path to ghc?
21:44 Limbic_Region IIRC there is/was a bug with that
21:45 fritzz yes
21:45 fritzz %20 ?
21:45 Corion Limbic_Region: Heh. So it's gaal vs. nothingmuch ;-)
21:45 Limbic_Region no Corion
21:45 Limbic_Region gaal was present in the later conversation on the 17th
21:45 Corion Limbic_Region: Ah :)
21:45 Limbic_Region fritzz - not url spaces
21:45 cm fritzz: use the short name
21:45 fritzz ah !
21:45 cm fritzz: like Progra~1 instead of Program Files, or such
21:45 fritzz sorry for being so lame folks
21:46 cm i believe that could work :|
21:46 Limbic_Region or use subst to give pugs its own drive letter
21:46 * Limbic_Region has a tendency to bend things to his will versus just fixing them
21:46 fritzz work now :)
21:46 Limbic_Region now if you had only listened to us 10 minutes ago
21:46 Limbic_Region :P
21:47 fritzz compiling in progress
21:47 fritzz can i submit report ?
21:47 Limbic_Region Corion - http://colabti.de/irclogger//irclogger_log_se​arch/perl6?search=eval&amp;action=search&amp;​timespan=20050226-20050326&amp;text=checked
21:47 Limbic_Region check the second to the last entry on the 16th
21:47 Limbic_Region and then read the 17th
21:47 Limbic_Region you be the judge of what is correct
21:51 fritzz pugs installed successfully :)
21:57 cm on win32? :)
21:57 jabbot pugs - 1259 - Parse bug: Map applied to constant list
21:57 jabbot pugs - 1258 - Partially reworked command line parsing
21:57 cm fritzz: nice. what kind of requirements does it have besides GHC?
21:57 cm fritzz: Perl 5?
21:57 fritzz sound like
21:57 fritzz look like he installed itself in my perl5 dir
21:58 fritzz now i can finally mess with perl6 named arguments :)
21:58 Corion I went with the todo_eval_is route :)
22:01 Corion r1259(0/3221)
22:01 Corion (on win2k)
22:02 Corion ... and I should maybe change 5 of my unexpectedly succeeding tests from todo_ to real tests :)
22:06 Corion Are the current pugs build number stored in any internal variables ? Like somewhere in (the Perl6 equivalent of) Config.pm ? Or $], whatever its name now is ?
22:06 integral pugs_config.h and pugs_version.h contain #defines, as used in Help.hs
22:08 integral The Help module also exports some version information variables, which then don't get used in Config.hs
22:08 Corion integral: :)) So it's not readily available from within Perl6 code :)
22:09 integral Not yet :-)   I'm about to sleep, but if I wasn't, I'd hack Config.hs to use Help.hs or the two header files
22:09 Corion integral+
22:09 Corion integral++
22:10 integral hmm, actually, ...
22:10 Corion Enoguh hacking from me - tomorrow, I might add the implicit conversion of C<-l> to C<-e "BEGIN{...}"> - now I just need to find out what to put there instead of the dots :)
22:13 Corion Gah. Pugs doesn't even like "BEGIN { ... } " yet :)
22:13 fritzz my precious BEGIN
22:14 fritzz usefull to parse config file onload :)
22:15 Corion fritzz: Also very much needed to implement C< -l > :)
22:15 Corion (the command line option, not the -X function)
22:16 fritzz what is C< -l > ?
22:16 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
22:18 Qiang has joined #perl6
22:18 Corion fritzz: The "-l" command line option (I use Pod escape syntax)
22:18 Corion fritzz: See perldoc perlrun
22:27 nothingmuch stevan: ping
22:29 justatheory has joined #perl6
22:30 nothingmuch do we have any vim ninjas present?
22:30 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ()
22:32 rgs nothingmuch: ask
22:32 nothingmuch perl6.vim should not gobble up =kwid, =pod, =etc
22:32 nothingmuch they should be treated as comments
22:33 nothingmuch at least for starters
22:33 nothingmuch it is giving me a hell of a time trying to parse the HTML output of Text::VimColors, as I need to flatten some <spans>, due to the way it currently parses L<S02/"Section" /skip regex/> stuf
22:34 rgs show me a file that demonstrates the bad behaviour
22:35 nothingmuch t/operators/hyper.t
22:36 Corion Err - how do I specify an "\n" string literal in Haskell ? is chr(13) the only way ?
22:36 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
22:36 Odin-LAP has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:37 Odin- has joined #perl6
22:42 pjcj What's the problem with using \n?  That should be fine, I think.
22:43 Corion pjcj: At least with GHC, I get a literal "\n" in the string then :)
22:44 rgs nothingmuch: do I put only "=cut" as an end marker ?
22:44 nothingmuch uhuh
22:44 nothingmuch afaik
22:44 nothingmuch either way, it should do for now
22:45 pjcj Corion: go into ghci, type 'putStrLn "a\nb"'
22:45 rgs nothingmuch: Lexer.hs only lists =pod and =cut as markers.
22:45 Corion pjcj: Weird... I'll try again ... Maybe putStrLn interprets stuff?
22:45 nothingmuch i think it skips =anything
22:45 justatheory has quit IRC ()
22:45 rgs ( in comments )
22:46 nothingmuch since =kwid doesn't seem to bother it
22:46 rgs ok
22:46 Corion Yeah - simply typing "a\nb" returns "a\nb" and not "a<newline>b"
22:47 rgs ok, Parser.hs has the definition of pod blocks
22:48 rgs nothingmuch: commited
22:49 nothingmuch rgs++
22:49 nothingmuch do you have a colorscheme that could work well?
22:49 nothingmuch the pink one is not that nice
22:50 nothingmuch it shares too much colors
22:50 rgs I don't know
22:50 nothingmuch and i don't think it's fair to impose mine
22:50 fritzz has quit IRC ()
22:50 nothingmuch it's a bit too nasty
22:50 rgs I'm colour blind. Everyone finds my custom colorscheme ugly
22:50 Juerd I'm colour deaf
22:51 Juerd I can't hear the difference between green and red very well
22:51 Juerd rgs: What colours can you see?
22:51 nothingmuch hmmm
22:52 rgs Juerd: this question doesn't make much sense
22:52 nothingmuch syn region p6POD start="^=[a-z]" end="^=cut" <-- makes perfect sense, but doesn't work for me
22:52 nothingmuch perlbot nopaste
22:52 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
22:53 Juerd rgs: Why not? Do you see no colour at all then?
22:53 rgs Juerd: I see colors. Less than other people.
22:53 rgs Besides this, I have difficulties remembering color names in English.
22:53 Juerd Do you know as which you see them?
22:54 rgs I can't see violet, for example
22:54 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 212.143.91.217 pasted "how perl6.vim colors pod:" (5 lines, 163B) at http://sial.org/pbot/8675
22:54 Odin-LAP has joined #perl6
22:55 Juerd rgs: Never go to Belgium by the way - the traffic lights there do not make sense if you can't see the difference between colours
22:56 Juerd They don't consistently stick to the red/yellow/green pattern
22:56 nothingmuch sideways and stuff?
22:56 * theorbtwo returns.
22:56 nothingmuch hurrah! theorbtwo is here!@
22:57 Juerd nothingmuch: Well, there are traffic lights with dual yellow, or 2-column thingies where next to the main green light is a red arrow
22:57 theorbtwo Have I been missed?
22:57 jabbot pugs - 1260 - Treat pod blocks as comments w.r.t. vim
22:57 pjcj Corion: \n is a single character.  '\n' is legal and length "a\nb" is 3.
22:57 nothingmuch oh my
22:57 Juerd nothingmuch: And green/red/yellow/green happens too
22:57 rgs Juerd: I've been to Brussels twice
22:57 Juerd rgs: Ah, glad you survived :)
22:58 * Juerd thinks most of these weird lights are in Antwerp
22:58 Juerd The city you drive into at 120 km/h, after which the motorway suddenly becomes a normal road with traffic lights and everything
22:58 nothingmuch rgs: any clue why that still happens?
23:00 rgs nothingmuch: well, in my tests the whole pod block is highlighted in the p6POD class
23:00 nothingmuch that's odd
23:00 nothingmuch i just noticed it's only doing that for HTML output
23:01 nothingmuch and that :TOhtml from that window works properly
23:01 rgs FWIW I have this in my &stl option, to debug highlighting : (%{synIDattr(synID(line('.'),col('.'),0),'name')})
23:04 nothingmuch ah, i think i see:
23:04 nothingmuch :let perl_include_pod=1
23:04 nothingmuch Text::VimColors is passing that,
23:05 rgs this variable is used by syntax/perl.vim
23:10 rgs time to sleep.
23:13 stevan nothingmuch: hello
23:13 nothingmuch hola
23:13 stevan you pinged?
23:13 nothingmuch yeah, but i forgot why
23:13 stevan ok
23:14 nothingmuch =)
23:14 fritzz has joined #perl6
23:15 stevan pjcj: was that your email about code coverage on p6c?
23:15 Corion pjcj: Weird - I must have done something wrong before, because now it works exactly as you say (and what I expected when I started :) )
23:15 Corion pjcj: Thanks!
23:16 pjcj stevan: yeah - I mentioned it briefly here and autrijus asked for a mail to p6c
23:16 pjcj Corion: good ;-)
23:16 stevan Devel::Cover for perl6 would be really cool. I hope that works out
23:16 * Corion promotes a todo_is test to is() :)
23:18 Corion Win2k:r1261(0/3229)
23:20 Corion good night all! My work is done by tainting Main.hs with lots of ugly code ...
23:20 Corion has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 0.10.1/20041001]")
23:29 * nothingmuch is frustrated
23:32 theorbtwo Eh, nm?
23:32 theorbtwo With the syntax hilighting for the tests?
23:34 theorbtwo I'm rather fustrated by this apparent firefox bug.
23:35 nothingmuch yes
23:35 nothingmuch vim highlights ok, but then 'source /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl​/5.9.1/Text/VimColor/mark.vim' yields:
23:35 nothingmuch >Comment>=pod<Comment<
23:35 nothingmuch >>Hyper operators L&lS<<>Number>03<Number<>>/<<>Constant>"Hyper operators"<Constant<>>&g<<
23:35 nothingmuch stupid
23:37 jabbot pugs - 1261 - Multiple -e switches work now
23:42 yinjieh has left
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23:51 DrHyde has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:57 jabbot pugs - 1262 - fixed AUTHOR in pugscc; worked on PodStr

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