Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-04-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:33 jabbot pugs - 1751 - --Incorporated Juerd's notes (mostly, st
00:34 Ovid_ has joined #perl6
00:34 mdiep in r1868, I have 10 subtests unexpectedly succeeding
00:38 mdiep is that, uh, expected?
00:45 stevan Ovid: just sent your an email back
00:46 stevan mdiep: r1868?? from which repository, I am only on r1751
00:47 mdiep URL: http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk
00:47 mdiep now r1871
00:48 stevan mdiep: oh,.. well a few tests succeeding is sometimes normal
00:48 mdiep should they get hunted down and get marked so that they're expected to pass?
00:48 Ovid_ Thanks for the feedback stevan.  I'll be heading to the theater soon, so I can't really work on it much now anyway :)
00:49 stevan Ovid: I would be happy to help out on it more tomorrow (or whenever the ITypes refactor is done)
00:49 stevan mdiep: I think those may have been fixed already
00:49 Ovid_ Thanks.
00:49 Ovid_ Any word on when classes are likely to be ready?
00:50 stevan Ovid: after the 6.2.0 release that is the major focus
00:50 Ovid_ OK.  (whee!)
00:50 stevan given the current rate of development I would guess we would have primative objects in a week or two
00:50 stevan and full on Perl6 OO maybe in month and a half?
00:51 stevan (although I may be optimistic here)
00:51 stevan mdiep: the tests are all currently broken though (Test.pm is not working) due to a major Type system refactor
00:51 Alias_ Maybe just a little :)
00:51 stevan basically Pugs has a broken nose
00:51 Ovid has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:51 Ovid_ For the time being, even basic support would be a godsend.  I don't even need inheritance right now.  Just give me some polymorphic lovin' and I'll be quite happy.
00:51 stevan Ovid_: me too :)
00:52 stevan Alias_: the IType refactor is a first step
00:52 stevan and mugwump has been hacking away AFAIK
00:53 stevan Alias_: would you have thought this much as possible in 69 days?
00:53 Alias_ How many developers are there now? 50? :)
00:53 stevan Alias_: yeah about that
00:54 Alias_ Then why not :)
00:55 stevan Alias_: thats the spirit :P
01:09 mugwump Objects!
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01:33 jabbot pugs - 1752 - more tests on ** with special values
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01:52 mugwump Has anyone here looked at any of the preliminary objects banter in the pugs tree?
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04:27 mugwump I'm trying to define a quick hack operator that turns one string into another...
04:27 mugwump I'm getting :     Couldn't match `Val' against `t -> t1'
04:27 mugwump that's with:
04:27 mugwump OpName: VStr "foo" = VStr "bar"
04:28 bd_ has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:28 mugwump s/://
04:28 mugwump I tried:
04:28 mugwump Opname "foo" = "bar"
04:28 mugwump But then I got an error trying to match [Char] to [Val]
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04:52 autrijus OpName (VStr "foo") = return (VStr "bar")
04:52 autrijus something like that
04:53 autrijus hmm, shapr did fix Test.pm. woot!
04:53 autrijus rehi lambdacamels, btw. :)
04:53 masak hi :)
04:53 mugwump thx autrijus, but still   Couldn't match `Val' against `m a'
04:54 autrijus is this a op1?
04:54 * mugwump nods
04:55 autrijus op1 "foo" = \x -> return (VStr (vCast x))
04:55 autrijus op1 "foo" = opName
04:55 autrijus err
04:55 autrijus op1 "foo" = return . opName . vCast
04:55 autrijus opName "foo" = VStr "bar"
04:56 autrijus try that?
04:56 * mugwump tries
04:57 * autrijus backlogeth...
04:58 autrijus hmm, s/pleac/cookbook/ makes sense to me
04:58 autrijus but Ovid is not here
04:58 autrijus do you folks think  examples/cookbook/  reads better than examples/pleac/ ?
04:58 mugwump what does pleac mean?
04:58 autrijus "Programming Language Examples Alike Cookbook."
04:58 * mugwump was just playin'
04:58 q[acme] given that we're perl, i think it makes sense
04:59 autrijus pleac.sf.net that is
04:59 autrijus ok. well in the spirit of wikidev...I'll just go ahead and rename it.
04:59 mugwump That looks happier, now it appears to be moaning that I'm not providing a "default" case
05:00 autrijus mugwump: right, because pugs is now developed with super fascist -Wall -Werror
05:00 mugwump heh
05:00 autrijus mugwump: so you need to say
05:00 autrijus opName _ = VStr "undef"
05:00 autrijus or
05:00 autrijus opName _ = VUndef
05:00 autrijus or some such
05:01 mugwump cool!  It compiles!
05:02 autrijus it compiles! it must be correct!
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05:02 mugwump This proves that "clkao"? == "http://www.flickr.com/photos/obra/7893068/"
05:03 autrijus heh
05:03 jabbot pugs - 1753 - * rename examples/pleac/ to examples/coo
05:04 mugwump hmm, unexpected "\9832" ...
05:04 * mugwump fiddles some more
05:04 autrijus you can't write nonlatin1 literals in code.
05:05 autrijus have to escape them
05:05 autrijus that's a ghc bug, not a pugs bug
05:05 autrijus (and it's being fixed I think)
05:06 elmex has joined #perl6
05:10 mugwump I notice a yen operator too... so how would you escape that?
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05:11 autrijus mugwump: the yen operator is within latin1
05:12 autrijus to get the hotspring operator
05:12 autrijus write
05:12 autrijus "\xE2\x99\xA8"
05:13 autrijus i.e. its octets in utf8
05:13 castaway_ inline haskel support diabled .. hmm, I thought I had the hsplugins..
05:13 jabbot pugs - 1754 -
05:13 mugwump ah, cool, thanks... so that ends up as 3 octets in the source, or the literal string you typed?
05:13 * mugwump tries
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05:14 autrijus I think you need that 3 escapted octets.
05:14 autrijus i.e. literal
05:15 mugwump Actually, this doesn't matter for my talk, I'll just get the ascii version working :)
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05:15 dvergin FWIW 1754 is some work this evening on docs/S28draft.pod
05:15 dvergin Gotta remember to put in the comment with the commit
05:16 autrijus cool
05:16 dvergin More to come. But it's time for bed now.
05:16 autrijus nite dvergin!
05:16 dvergin 'nite.
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05:17 autrijus mugwump: err, wow, you are actually going to commit the hotspring operator?
05:18 autrijus maybe doing it as a howto writeup on pugs.kwiki.org will be more fitting...
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05:18 autrijus (but you're certainly free to commit... it's just I think it will get removed before 6.2.0)
05:19 mugwump ah, just flicked back to this after the commit
05:20 mugwump I'll un-do it before Sunday ;)
05:20 autrijus you didn't push, though, so that's fine :D
05:23 mugwump heh, true
05:24 mugwump ok I won't put that in the repos, then.
05:24 autrijus thanks :D
05:24 autrijus mugwump++
05:24 mugwump svk++
05:24 autrijus there are other primitives in S29 awaiting your work... :)
05:25 mugwump alright, off to give a talk to wellington.pm.org
05:25 mugwump later ...
05:25 autrijus see ya
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06:12 gaal what's a hotspring operator?
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06:21 Khisanth a person that operates a hotsprint? :)
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06:33 Ovid Er, who moved examples/pleac to examples/cookbook?  I think it's a good change, but I was rather curious about how this came about.  autrijus asked for it to be in examples/pleac.
06:34 castaway_ is now known as castaway
06:34 castaway it was autrijus iirc, try asking svn blame ,)
06:35 Ovid I tried, but it doesn't work on directories and the files don't show the change :)
06:35 Ovid I'm glad autrijus did it, though.
06:35 castaway 06:58 < autrijus> hmm, s/pleac/cookbook/ makes sense to me
06:35 castaway 06:58 < autrijus> but Ovid is not here
06:36 Ovid Thanks!
06:36 castaway (presumably someone suggested it earlier, he was reading the backlog)
06:36 Ovid I had, actually.
06:36 castaway CAN YOU SEE WHO DID !/%§ ß 8i HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF SVN9
06:37 castaway oops!
06:37 * castaway turns the capslock back off.. sorry
06:37 castaway 1753, that was meant to be ,)
06:37 Ovid Er, how do I see who did a  particular commit by number? (I don't know svn that well)
06:38 castaway me either :)
06:38 Ovid :)
06:38 * castaway looks in the redbean book
06:39 Ovid Is there a particular file you want to know the change for?  I can do that.
06:40 Ovid svn log filename should do the trick.
06:40 castaway ah
06:40 castaway svn log -r 1753
06:40 castaway that was the pleac->cookbook one
06:40 Ovid pugs $ svn log -r 1753
06:40 Ovid ------------------------------------------------------------------------
06:40 Ovid r1753 | autrijus | 2005-04-10 21:59:53 -0700 (Sun, 10 Apr 2005) | 1 line
06:40 Ovid * rename examples/pleac/ to examples/cookbook/.
06:40 Ovid ------------------------------------------------------------------------
06:40 castaway yup
06:41 Ovid Thanks.  I didn't know you could do a log that way.
06:41 castaway http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch03s06.html#svn-ch-3-sect-5.1
06:42 castaway now we're all more knowledged..
06:44 * castaway boggles
06:44 nothingmuch castaway: you know a bit of RPM.... --relocate is like PREFIX for Makefile.PL?
06:44 castaway We have Paris Hilton under contract?
06:44 castaway In theory, nm, yes.. but only with rpms that are built to support it, iirc
06:45 nothingmuch ook, it's not installing even with --force
06:45 nothingmuch i just want the one binary out of the file
06:45 nothingmuch grr....
06:45 castaway aua.. what is it?
06:46 nothingmuch gcc 3.3
06:46 nothingmuch i want to try to make gcov with with gcc 3.2
06:46 nothingmuch and if it doesn't work adhoc, i'll just install a newer gcc along side 3.2
06:46 nothingmuch the 3.2 gcov is completely insane though
06:46 castaway hmm,m my suse 9.1 has gcc 3.3.3 per default, it seems
06:46 nothingmuch rhel as 3 here
06:47 nothingmuch horrible horrible platform
06:47 * nothingmuch loaths redhat
06:47 * rgs 2 </aol>
06:47 castaway hmm, could give you an account here, if its just to try something
06:48 nothingmuch no, i need to run gcov
06:48 nothingmuch i have other gccs, they are better
06:48 castaway ah
06:48 nothingmuch we have rhel 4, fc 3, rhel 2, etc
06:48 castaway mm, fun
06:48 castaway oh, wait, you just want a binary?
06:48 castaway which?
06:48 nothingmuch gcov itself =)
06:49 nothingmuch hah, why didn't i think of that
06:49 castaway you could just unpack the rpm.. rpm2cpio or somesuch..
06:49 castaway but I can give you it
06:49 nothingmuch ah, i'll do that
06:49 castaway alien++
06:49 nothingmuch rpm2cpio | cpio <extract> ?
06:49 castaway something like that
06:49 castaway I usually use alien
06:50 nothingmuch cpio -id worked
06:50 nothingmuch thanks
06:50 castaway :)
06:51 castaway mine is on d-i just in case (in /misc)
06:51 castaway tell me when you get a chance to start SEE?
06:52 gaal has left
06:53 Boogie has left
06:53 nothingmuch i'll try now
06:53 nothingmuch i started it again yesterday
06:53 nothingmuch i wonder why it died
06:54 nothingmuch oh
06:54 nothingmuch ping woobling.org
06:54 nothingmuch =(
06:54 nothingmuch damn them to hell, my ISP
06:54 nothingmuch i hate pptp
06:54 nothingmuch and i hate l2tp
06:54 nothingmuch and i hate anything that is so flakey it doesn't stay connected for more than a week
06:54 nothingmuch *sob*
06:54 * castaway hugs nothingmuch
06:55 nothingmuch you are very touchy-feely lately... =)
06:55 castaway I always am ,)
06:55 nothingmuch found a long-lost brother or something?
06:55 nothingmuch ah =)
06:56 castaway nah, its just my default mode ,)
06:56 nothingmuch wtf?!
06:56 nothingmuch i think it's a route problem
06:56 nothingmuch traceroute goes 3 hops,
06:56 nothingmuch and then stops
06:56 nothingmuch could you try to traceroute, see where it gives up?
06:57 castaway 8  netvision.ge4-0.3.cr02.nyc01.pccwbtn.net (63.218.9.2)  148.368 ms   167.602 ms   173.179 ms
06:57 castaway 9  * * *
06:57 castaway 10  * * *
06:57 castaway 11  * * *
06:57 nothingmuch arses
06:57 Boogie has joined #perl6
06:57 nothingmuch that is before even the backbone
06:57 castaway eep
06:57 nothingmuch from there it has to get to haifa/rehovot
06:58 nothingmuch and from there to my house
06:58 nothingmuch i get something entirely different:
06:58 nothingmuch 3  gi1-0.core1.pt.nv.net.il (212.143.10.1)  10.272 ms !H *  7.246 ms !H
06:58 nothingmuch • [syeeda:~] nothingmuch %
06:58 nothingmuch that's where it stops
06:58 nothingmuch this router is our upstream one
06:59 larsen has joined #perl6
06:59 castaway hmm, odd
06:59 nothingmuch well, gcov dies with 'abort'
07:00 * nothingmuch will use a hash table and move all the gcovs before every run
07:00 nothingmuch it's such a stupid tool
07:00 castaway whats it for?
07:00 nothingmuch it talks about ../foo/File.h, for example
07:00 nothingmuch and writes ./File.h.gcov
07:00 nothingmuch Devel::Cover for C/C++
07:00 castaway ah
07:01 castaway 8  netvision.ge4-0.3.cr02.nyc01.pccwbtn.net (63.218.9.2)  224.805 ms   244.667 ms *
07:01 castaway 9  pos9-0.core1.hfa.nv.net.il (212.143.12.21)(H!)  381.808 ms * *
07:01 castaway (and then stopped, that time)
07:01 * castaway tries to remember what H! is
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07:11 nothingmuch damn, now this means I can't run gcov in parallel either
07:11 * nothingmuch used to run 12 procs at a time to make it mui fast
07:11 nothingmuch *sigh*
07:12 castaway ,)
07:13 * castaway pulls both corners of nothingmuch's mouth up.. smile!
07:13 nothingmuch bad day
07:13 nothingmuch but thanks, =)
07:14 castaway better
07:14 castaway its only 10:15 ..
07:14 nothingmuch right
07:15 castaway plenty of time to improve ,)
07:16 nothingmuch i'll try ;-)
07:16 * castaway gets to make excel templates, what fun
07:16 nothingmuch oi oi oi
07:16 nothingmuch i just write tsv's
07:16 castaway luckily I got to automate most of it a while back
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07:34 * nothingmuch wants ternary assignment
07:34 nothingmuch $lvaluse ??= "foo" :: "bar";
07:35 nothingmuch useful for $hash{$key} ??= die "duplicate" :: $value;
07:35 castaway :)
07:35 castaway suggest it
07:36 nothingmuch i wonder if i could just implement it in p6
07:36 castaway probably
07:36 nothingmuch sub &ternafoo<??=::> ($lvalue is rw, $expr, $expr)
07:37 nothingmuch but that won't be short circuiting
07:37 castaway looks like gobbeldygook to me ,)
07:39 nothingmuch i'll mail p6l about thunks as parameters
07:40 nothingmuch damn, can't reach pasta
07:40 nothingmuch no mutt
07:43 nothingmuch fuck fuck fuck!
07:43 nothingmuch i hate gcov
07:43 castaway aww..
07:43 nothingmuch who the hell was stupid enough to think that basenames are a good enough distinction?!
07:43 castaway use something else?
07:43 nothingmuch i have two files in two dirs named common.h
07:43 nothingmuch they can'
07:43 nothingmuch t coexist, as far as it's concerned
07:43 nothingmuch it will just overwrite one with the other
07:43 castaway some idiot, no doubt
07:43 nothingmuch phooey!
07:44 nothingmuch gcov is the only tool
07:44 nothingmuch and it has gotten better
07:44 castaway really?
07:44 nothingmuch but i need gcov for gcc 3.2
07:44 nothingmuch which still sucks
07:45 castaway sounds like you'll need to build some ghastly framework around the calls
07:45 nothingmuch no
07:45 nothingmuch i'll just skip cvg of those files for now
07:45 nothingmuch they are probably unimportant
07:45 castaway (uhoh.. )
07:46 nothingmuch i'll warn about them now
07:46 nothingmuch if it's just common.h in 3 places, i don't care
07:46 nothingmuch they are 40 lines of unexecutable code, prolly
07:47 nothingmuch i could hack gcov itself
07:47 nothingmuch and recompile it
07:47 nothingmuch 2.2
07:47 nothingmuch 3.2, that is
07:47 castaway true
07:47 nothingmuch maybe that's the way to go
07:47 nothingmuch but i don't want these scripts failing if gcov suddenly gets swiped under them
07:47 nothingmuch because someone ran up2date
07:48 castaway any gcov/gcc groups you could whine on?
07:48 nothingmuch i've wined on #c
07:48 nothingmuch but, i dunno... it's a futile war
07:48 nothingmuch gcov was fixed
07:48 nothingmuch it's my problem that i can't upgrade
07:48 castaway oh, I see
07:48 castaway :(
07:54 nothingmuch i love pbcopy and pbpaste
07:54 nothingmuch pbpaste | awk '{print $3}' | xargs -n 1 basename | pbcopy
07:56 castaway wossat?
07:56 nothingmuch take clipboard
07:56 nothingmuch munge it a bit
07:57 castaway oh, copy to clipboard temporarily?
07:57 nothingmuch to make paths in output table a list of basenames
07:57 nothingmuch and then put that back in the clipboard
07:57 castaway sneaky.. would generally just use a variable ,)
07:57 nothingmuch well, this is going between shells
07:57 nothingmuch between machines, actually
07:58 nothingmuch i would too, if it's the same shell
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07:58 nothingmuch since it's more recoverable
07:59 castaway ah, useful
08:00 gugod_ is now known as gugod
08:01 castaway allo gugod
08:02 gugod hi
08:02 castaway seen theorbtwo
08:02 jabbot castaway: theorbtwo was seen on Mon Apr 11 03:20:32 2005
08:03 castaway is the jabbot yours?
08:03 gugod castaway: yes
08:04 castaway would you mind adding some timezone info or something similar?
08:04 gugod oh I was going to
08:04 castaway nifty
08:04 gugod but I forgot :p
08:05 gugod I should do it now
08:05 castaway would be much appreciated
08:07 castaway jabbot: time
08:07 jabbot castaway: Please go on.
08:10 jabbot has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
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08:10 gugod jabbot: seen gugod?
08:10 jabbot gugod: gugod was seen on Mon Apr 11 08:09:52 2005 GMT
08:10 gugod there. :p
08:10 castaway lovely :)
08:10 castaway seen theorbtwo
08:10 jabbot castaway: theorbtwo was seen on Sun Apr 10 19:20:32 2005 GMT
08:10 castaway yay :)
08:11 gugod hmm, correct :)
08:11 gugod I should have use gmtime() \
08:11 gugod
08:11 castaway hmm?
08:12 friedo has left "Leaving"
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08:25 nothingmuch is there any way to set the pipe size?
08:25 nothingmuch that is, how many unread bytes before a the writer starts blocking?
08:26 nothingmuch ulimit -p can only display, btw, so don't look there
08:27 * castaway has no idea
08:37 nothingmuch i feel so witty
08:38 nothingmuch cprint("$rel ... $.") unless $i++ % 7
08:38 nothingmuch cprint is just 'print \r, print @_, print lots of spaces'
08:38 nothingmuch i love prime numbers
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09:01 nothingmuch lexical scopes + perl -n are scary
09:02 nothingmuch i just had 'my %hash; sub { }'
09:02 nothingmuch where sub plays with hash
09:02 nothingmuch since it's a perl -n script, though, %hash is different for every loop, and sub is a closure
09:02 nothingmuch beh
09:06 elmex ;)
09:06 elmex lol
09:06 nothingmuch i don't know how newbies manage to deal with this stuff
09:07 elmex nothingmuch: they give up
09:07 nothingmuch i didn't
09:07 nothingmuch and i don't remember sufferring too much either
09:08 elmex it's just, that newbies don't know about -n
09:08 elmex just a guess guess
09:08 elmex oops
09:08 nothingmuch that's my theory too
09:09 elmex well, also that newbies ask on #perl or a friend i guess. or they just don't write code thats too complicated
09:09 elmex i guess (programming) newbies also don't know much about closoures
09:12 * shapr awakens
09:12 shapr I'm desperately curious what the general purpose fix was for vCast
09:12 elmex vCast?
09:13 shapr Yesterday's IType upgrade added fromVal and I think my fix for Test.pm was likely a hack
09:14 hlafarge has joined #perl6
09:14 Alias_ Answer, nobody uses perl's flags :)
09:14 elmex jafa?
09:15 elmex err...java?
09:15 nothingmuch Alias_: i use them all the time =)
09:15 nothingmuch but that wasn't my point
09:15 autrijus \camels -> greeting !
09:15 shapr autrijus: I didn't fix all the vCast stuff, lots of the tests were failing when I fell asleep.
09:16 nothingmuch hola autrijus
09:16 nothingmuch there's lots of weird behavior like that all about p5
09:16 autrijus shapr: that's fine, I'm up and fixing them now
09:16 shapr yay
09:18 * nothingmuch recompiles with -fno-inline
09:18 nothingmuch i thought what I did would be enough, but nooooo
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09:32 theorbtwo Hm, the CHANGELOG is perhaps a bit overzelous about what I did.
09:32 theorbtwo IE it still doesn't actually work, but AFAICT the problem is in code at a higher level then mine.
09:33 theorbtwo Also, it still needs fixing to work for anything but SHA1 and anywhere but the paths I'm using.
09:46 autrijus right. would you tackle the latter?
09:46 autrijus I'll deal with the former.
09:46 theorbtwo Nod.
09:47 theorbtwo Turns out it's also broken by the ITypes changes, and I'm not clear on why.
09:47 autrijus really. hrm
09:47 autrijus let me install SHA1 and try out
09:48 autrijus a sec though, I'm fixing
09:48 autrijus () = (1..Inf)
09:48 BigBear has joined #perl6
09:48 theorbtwo That may have been a misdiagnosis.
09:50 * castaway snuggles theorbtwo
09:52 castaway (hmm, where'd he go?)
09:53 Alias_ has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
09:53 Alias_ has joined #perl6
09:57 zuulvin has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
10:04 xern has joined #perl6
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10:20 nothingmuch gah
10:21 nothingmuch meeting on coding standards in 40 minutes
10:21 nothingmuch and i want food
10:21 nothingmuch conflict
10:22 theorbtwo I suppose you can't eat at the meeting.
10:22 nothingmuch i would like a big fat sandwich
10:22 autrijus yay!
10:23 nothingmuch there's a guy that makes them  by the univ
10:23 nothingmuch dirt cheap
10:23 nothingmuch very good
10:23 nothingmuch anyway, they always end up more like soup, by the time 10 minutes have passed
10:23 autrijus $ ./pugs -e '%ENV.ref.say'
10:23 autrijus Hash::Env
10:23 autrijus I win :D
10:23 nothingmuch because i'm a sucker for the sauces
10:23 nothingmuch autrijus++
10:23 nothingmuch yay!
10:23 theorbtwo Dammit, I want a good sub now.
10:23 theorbtwo Cool!
10:23 theorbtwo Autrijus++
10:25 nothingmuch death to gcov! death to gcc!
10:26 nothingmuch eek!
10:26 nothingmuch if i say no-default-inline i get to keep explicitly inlined functions
10:26 nothingmuch if i say no-inline, they all go away
10:26 nothingmuch if i say keep-inline-functions the used ones stay, but i want the dead code too
10:26 nothingmuch and some used ones are still inlined and thrown away
10:27 theorbtwo -fkeep-inline-functions'
10:27 * nothingmuch tries -fno-default-inline, but with -Dinline="/* */"
10:28 nothingmuch theorbtwo: i tried that, no go
10:28 nothingmuch i should note:
10:28 nothingmuch with -fno-default-inline it seems behave correctly
10:28 nothingmuch that is, code is generated for the functions
10:28 nothingmuch but it is never executed
10:29 theorbtwo Try declaring "extern inline"?
10:29 * nothingmuch will lookup exactly what that means
10:30 * theorbtwo isn't quite sure.
10:30 zuulvin has joined #perl6
10:31 nothingmuch ah, i see
10:31 nothingmuch it basically is supposed to make inline functions
10:31 nothingmuch but also keep a regular version, for external linkage, right?
10:31 nothingmuch ok, that doesn't help
10:31 nothingmuch i need these functions to be not inlined at all
10:31 nothingmuch like i hoped -g would do
10:31 nothingmuch so that they are actually executed as normal functions
10:32 theorbtwo Oh!
10:32 * theorbtwo was thinking you wanted something completely different.
10:32 * nothingmuch is trying to get the most debuggy, simplified code
10:32 nothingmuch that way coverage is accurate
10:32 nothingmuch on a per statement basis
10:32 theorbtwo Ah.
10:33 nothingmuch if optimizations get into the picture, the meaning of the code -> instruction conversion is sometimes vague
10:33 * theorbtwo nods.
10:33 castaway mm, food, good plan
10:33 theorbtwo Just pass a -O0 (that's oh, zero) option?
10:34 nothingmuch '-g'
10:34 nothingmuch i'm already passing that
10:34 autrijus hm.
10:34 autrijus @_ = (1..Inf); @_[3] = 4;
10:34 autrijus this is surprisingly difficult.
10:34 nothingmuch is it generative?
10:34 autrijus guess I'll need to implement full COW.
10:34 nothingmuch full cow for the element?
10:35 autrijus full cow for elements
10:35 nothingmuch what does it do now?
10:35 autrijus it tries to create a IORef for each rhs
10:35 autrijus and dies
10:35 * nothingmuch is curious
10:35 nothingmuch each rhs being 1 .. Inf?
10:35 autrijus yeah
10:36 nothingmuch why does that happen?
10:36 autrijus because each array element is potentially a fully tieable scalar.
10:36 * nothingmuch needs a -fnever-ever-inline-you-stupid-twit option
10:36 autrijus i.e. you can do
10:36 autrijus tie($ENV{USER}, 'Tie::Google')
10:36 nothingmuch right
10:36 nothingmuch but isn't that supposed to be figured out per element
10:36 nothingmuch when the generator returns it?
10:37 autrijus I'm implementing that "supposed to". ;)
10:37 nothingmuch [3] doesn't exist yet, when @_[3] is assigned
10:37 autrijus yup.
10:37 nothingmuch so it's genererated
10:37 nothingmuch to see if it's tied
10:37 nothingmuch and then replaced
10:37 nothingmuch ok
10:37 nothingmuch again /me is just curious as to why that would have happenned
10:37 * autrijus praises "lazy evaluation by default"
10:37 theorbtwo Can you generate @_[0..2], assign them to where they should be, and leave [4...] as the inf bit?
10:37 autrijus yes.
10:37 autrijus that's the idea
10:38 theorbtwo Ah, OK.
10:38 nothingmuch why do you need 2?
10:38 nothingmuch are the generators always iterative?
10:38 theorbtwo Because then you can have it so the left hand "half" is each-element-is-known, with a generator to the right.
10:39 theorbtwo And not a strange mix of generated and known.
10:39 nothingmuch right, but these are not linked lists
10:39 nothingmuch i don't want to wait forever if i have
10:39 nothingmuch @a = 0 .. Inf
10:39 nothingmuch @a[2**64] = 1;
10:39 autrijus you don't need to wait forever :)
10:39 theorbtwo I think they are linked lists...
10:39 nothingmuch perhaps generators should get something akin to slice notation
10:40 nothingmuch theorbtwo: in haskell ;-)
10:40 autrijus they are linked lists, but slicing will be automagic.
10:40 nothingmuch in parrot/perl6 i hope they will be sparse arrays
10:40 autrijus in parrot it's already sparse arrays
10:40 autrijus and we can do that in haskell too
10:40 autrijus just need to get around to it :)
10:41 * theorbtwo leaves the heavy lifting to autrijus and nm, tries to figure out how to dump a hi file.
10:41 nothingmuch peh
10:42 nothingmuch huraaah! Mutex.h:109: multiple definition of `std::memchr(void*, int, unsigned int)'
10:42 nothingmuch now i've really messed it up
10:46 shapr wadler mentioned pugs and higher order perl on his blog, spiffy
10:49 theorbtwo Hmmpf.
10:49 theorbtwo ghc -package hi dumphifile.hs && ./a.out
10:49 theorbtwo a.out: magic number mismatch: old/corrupt interface file?
10:50 cognominal is there a file with the siganture of the implemented predefined function?
10:51 theorbtwo Oh.
10:51 cognominal s/siganture/signatures/; s/function/functions/
10:51 theorbtwo cognorminal, ghci, then :t whatever
10:52 theorbtwo Or check the specification: http://haskell.org/onlinereport/
10:52 cognominal heu, are we speaking perl6 here?
10:53 theorbtwo Oh.
10:53 theorbtwo I thought you meant haskell
10:53 gaal has joined #perl6
10:53 bd_ has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
10:53 cognominal sorry for changing context without saing
10:53 bd_ has joined #perl6
10:54 theorbtwo There's a table at the end of src/Prim.hs
10:54 shapr yay - http://wadler.blogspot.com/2005/04/perl-6-in-haskell-pugs.html
10:59 autrijus ok. I triggered this again
10:59 autrijus src/AST.hs:1020:12:
10:59 autrijus    My brain just exploded.
10:59 autrijus    I can't handle pattern bindings for existentially-quantified constructors.
10:59 autrijus I wonder why I tend to write brain-explosion code.
11:00 nothingmuch autrijus: diet coke
11:00 autrijus I'm not on diet coke anymore :p
11:00 nothingmuch that's good news =)
11:00 theorbtwo autrijus: That's an actual compiler error message: "my brain just exploded"?
11:00 autrijus aye it is
11:02 autrijus rumour has it that it was spj's brain that has exploded when he worked on that part in the compiler.
11:02 nothingmuch spj?
11:02 autrijus http://research.microsoft.com/%7Esimonpj/
11:03 nothingmuch ah
11:03 autrijus father of GHC and inventor/coinventor of lots of nifty features we use
11:03 shapr and obsessive research paper author
11:03 autrijus that too.
11:04 autrijus sad, because with bindings for ex.q. constructors, we'll have full binding power for GADTs
11:04 autrijus and persumably making Show etc derivable
11:04 shapr you could always ask SPJ
11:04 osfameron "the implementation people seem to do
11:04 osfameron nothing but tweak their VM" # fair ?
11:05 nothingmuch whose brain exploded, btw?
11:05 autrijus nothingmuch: simon pj's
11:05 nothingmuch oh oh oh
11:05 nothingmuch i get it
11:05 autrijus osfameron: well, there's python, not intercal
11:05 nothingmuch that's the compiler output
11:06 nothingmuch i thought it was a comment
11:06 autrijus it's a compiler output :)
11:08 castaway Anyone speak/read italian? /me looks at larsen
11:08 osfameron and me
11:08 osfameron (not as well as larsen, certo)
11:09 castaway trying to decipher: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;category=23398&amp;item=5766940352&amp;rd=1&amp;ssPageName=WD2V
11:09 osfameron In German?
11:10 osfameron Oh, I see, the description is Italian
11:10 castaway does that say it has RoutePlanner, *and* CityMaps on it, for EPOC systems?
11:10 castaway oops, yeah, was earching on .de
11:11 osfameron Looks like there are 2 products?
11:11 castaway there are
11:12 castaway but Ive not seen them on the same CD before, nor v2004, since the last Ive found is 2003
11:12 osfameron You've noted that he's only selling the software, not the GPS.
11:12 castaway yup, I have a GPS :)
11:13 castaway just looking for software upgrades, the barstewards renamed it, changed the company name, and then stopped selling/giving map updates :(
11:13 osfameron Ah
11:13 castaway (mine is StreetPlanner Millenium from 1999 ,)
11:13 osfameron well he talks about both applications (sorry, haven't got the time to read in depth at mo')
11:14 castaway Ok
11:14 BigBear has quit IRC (Client Quit)
11:14 castaway and running on EPOC?
11:14 castaway (idiots only do their new stuff on Pocekt PC)
11:15 Aankh|Clone has joined #perl6
11:15 osfameron All he says about EPOC is that the RoutePlanner version supports additional languages
11:15 osfameron which implies that it does run on Epoc..
11:15 castaway indeed
11:15 castaway ah well, 10 days to go on it
11:16 Robin_Kin has joined #perl6
11:16 osfameron He suggests you contact him, telling him your OS
11:18 castaway thanks
11:21 autrijus hm
11:21 autrijus perl -e 'my @a = (1..10000000); @a[0]'
11:21 autrijus this is slow.
11:21 autrijus I wonder why ;)
11:21 theorbtwo Not Lazy enough for your level of Impatience?
11:22 autrijus likely so.
11:22 shapr That's a neat quote
11:22 Entwicklung has joined #perl6
11:22 Entwicklung is perl6 expected to be released this year ?
11:22 shapr gutentag Entwicklung, wie geht es?
11:23 Entwicklung shapr: no im not german, i just like the nick
11:23 Entwicklung :)
11:23 theorbtwo Thanks, shapr.
11:23 shapr That's okay, I'm from Selma, Alabama.
11:23 Robin_Kin why not $a[0]  but @a[0] ?
11:23 pjcj aber hier sprechen wir deutsche
11:23 shapr Entwicklung: jump in and help! Then pugs will be further sooner!
11:24 Entwicklung i know nothing about compilers
11:24 shapr This is a great opportunity to learn!
11:24 theorbtwo Well, considering how far we are after 2 months, releasing after a year might be possible.
11:24 theorbtwo Ent, neither do I.
11:24 Entwicklung lol, by the time i know enough to contribute, perl6 will be ready
11:24 theorbtwo Writing tests is a good place to start, generally.
11:24 shapr There's a lot that can be done with straight-up perl skills.
11:25 Entwicklung i was under the impression that there were enough of people working on it already
11:25 theorbtwo changes topic to: pugscode.org <<Overview Journal Logs>> | r1734: ITypes *Test.pm currently somewhat broken* | pugs.kwiki.org
11:25 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
11:25 Robin_Kin it's an exciting message
11:25 Aankh|Clone is now known as Aankhen``
11:26 theorbtwo Ent: too many cooks spoiling the soup is because the soup doesn't have a sufficient version control system.
11:26 theorbtwo If you put in too much garlic, we can roll some back.
11:26 * shapr laughs
11:26 Aankhen`` LMAO.
11:26 * shapr likes spicy food.
11:26 theorbtwo Yeah, well, I'm not sure there is such a thing as too much garlic.
11:26 autrijus Robin_Kin: @a[0] is because my finger is used to that
11:26 Aankhen`` Er... I'm sure there is; does that count, theorbtwo?
11:26 Entwicklung hehe
11:26 autrijus same symptom if you use $a[0]
11:27 autrijus Entwicklung: fancy working on the cookbook? :)
11:27 * Robin_Kin like spicy food to
11:27 theorbtwo OTOH, for(1..1000000) doesn't have that symptom, at least in sufficently new p5s.
11:27 Entwicklung lol
11:28 shapr Ah, the cookbook is under example/cookbook
11:28 autrijus theorbtwo: right, but that's peephole optimisation
11:28 shapr I might actually learn how to write Perl.
11:29 autrijus $ time ./pugs -e 'my @a = (1..Inf); @a[16384].say'
11:29 autrijus 16385
11:29 autrijus sys     0m0.000s
11:29 autrijus infinite lists, constant time
11:29 pjcj where constant = zero!
11:29 autrijus O(0)!
11:29 shapr Entwicklung: jump on in, the code is warm and inviting!
11:29 Aankhen`` O_O
11:30 * theorbtwo boggles, as autrijus warps the structure of space and time just for the fun of it.
11:30 shapr speaking of quoteworthy...
11:31 pjcj theorbtwo: are you suggesting autrijus has put on weight?
11:31 * theorbtwo laughs aloud.
11:31 autrijus lol
11:33 jabbot pugs - 1757 - * Lazy IArray structures: "Infinite list
11:33 jabbot pugs - 1756 - * make ref() work on ITypes.
11:33 jabbot pugs - 1755 - * iType interface to let ITypes have dis
11:49 Aankhen`` Hrm...
11:50 Aankhen`` I just came across this in examples/cookbook/01strings/01-00introduction.p6:
11:50 Aankhen`` $string = q'Jon 'Maddog' Orwant';   # literal single quotes
11:50 Aankhen`` Does that work?
11:50 Aankhen`` How does that work, even?
11:50 castaway use something else as the quote on the outside?
11:50 castaway q(Jon 'Maddog' Orwant); ?
11:51 Aankhen`` It's with a bunch of other ways to quote the string.
11:51 Aankhen`` http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/examples/cookbook/01strings/01-00introduction.p6
11:51 Aankhen`` Take a look at the portion under "# Alternative operators can be used in the place of // delimeters"
11:52 castaway ah..
11:52 castaway It doesnt look like it would to me, but what do I know? :)
11:52 Aankhen`` I was just wondering whether that was put in accidentally, or it actually works.
11:53 Aankhen`` BRB.
11:53 theorbtwo Hm, I'd expect that to be an accident; it works with bracketing chars, but you can't expect a ' to come in matched pairs.
11:53 jabbot pugs - 1758 - Added merlyn Soup with Crackers recipe
11:53 osfameron I didn't know // was the canonical single-quoting delimiter
11:53 theorbtwo (Witness "can't".)
11:54 co2 has joined #perl6
11:54 theorbtwo It's not.  It is, however, the cannonical character to use with anyquotes, no matter what the verb is on them.)
11:55 * castaway thinks someone cut&pasted all the comments ("literal single quotes")
11:55 autrijus yeah :)
11:55 Aankhen`` Ah.
11:55 Aankhen`` Anyway.
11:55 * Aankhen`` BBL.
11:58 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
11:58 autrijus however, hash is strict.
11:59 autrijus i.e. an infinite sized hash does not exist yet
11:59 autrijus I think it's a feature.
11:59 * castaway looks at some of the holes in the cookbook directory and hmms
12:02 integral is now known as aardvax
12:02 theorbtwo So do I.
12:03 aardvax is now known as integral
12:03 theorbtwo OTOH, you could create an infinite hash well enough if you don't mind creating a new IType.  (In a theoretical future where you can create ITypes.)
12:03 jabbot pugs - 1759 - * unified hash and array fetching.
12:03 theorbtwo Of course, that's syntatic sugar for a function with a single argument... but what isn't?
12:04 * shapr grins
12:07 autrijus lol :)
12:08 autrijus ok, @a[1..10] = (1..Inf) now works too.
12:08 * castaway blinks.
12:08 theorbtwo Oh, that could be a nice idiom.
12:08 shapr Is that like "take 10 [1..]" ?
12:09 autrijus it is.
12:09 theorbtwo Equiv to @a[1..10] = [1..10], but without having to specify that 10 twice.
12:09 autrijus and I bet it's implemented like that underneath
12:09 autrijus yup.
12:09 autark-jp what happens with @a[1..10] = reverse (1 .. Inf)? If that is even legal that is.
12:09 autrijus ok... now let me repair quicksort and friends.
12:10 kungfuftr ullo all
12:10 autrijus autark-jp: I imagine it will go on forever.
12:10 theorbtwo Allo, kungfuftr.
12:10 autrijus either that, or incorrectly fill all 10 slots with Infinity.
12:10 autrijus I prefer that first
12:10 autark-jp ie, reverse is non-lazy?
12:11 kungfuftr odd... pugs actually builds for me now
12:11 theorbtwo Why is that odd?
12:11 kungfuftr because i couldn't over the weekend
12:11 theorbtwo For a few hours, hs-plugins was a required dependency; it's now optional.
12:12 theorbtwo (You should get a message at Makefile.PL time if you don't have it.)
12:12 kungfuftr complained about memory exhaustion during linking
12:12 theorbtwo Oh.
12:12 * theorbtwo has no explanition for that.
12:12 shapr Your memory is tired, it needs a nap.
12:13 kungfuftr boomboom
12:13 * shapr snickers
12:13 shapr With useful content like that, who needs distractions?
12:14 shapr "shapr, now with 52% more silliness!"
12:14 * shapr sucks down some anti-silly Ritalin
12:14 * castaway grins
12:14 castaway silly++
12:14 kungfuftr "shapr, now with missing kneecaps"
12:14 * shapr laughs
12:14 shapr Silly is great if you don't have a deadline.
12:15 castaway indeed
12:15 kungfuftr (brad pitt)++ # impressive rendition of a northern irish accent
12:15 shapr kungfuftr: I'd have to see a picture of you to know whether I'd fight like a man, or run like a supremely confident man.
12:15 theorbtwo IIRC, 6.2.0's deadline is in about -6 hours.
12:15 shapr w00
12:15 kungfuftr shapr: northern irish... run!
12:15 shapr yipes!
12:16 kungfuftr hehe
12:16 Entwicklung has quit IRC ()
12:16 * theorbtwo tries to remember what he was doing.
12:16 shapr I have a good friend who's from Dublin, run with confidence is the best choice.
12:19 kungfuftr shapr: man with a plan, etc.
12:20 castaway something about frying fish ,)
12:20 shapr Panama!
12:20 * kungfuftr wonders if you could use a crusoe chip to run parrot on top
12:20 * castaway grins
12:21 cognominal how one would enumerate the keys of the global hash?
12:22 theorbtwo keys %*ENV
12:23 rgs %*ENV.keys
12:23 cognominal hum, that is the environment
12:23 jabbot pugs - 1760 - Add $*UID, $*EUID, $*GID, and $*EGID.  N
12:23 autrijus say
12:23 * shapr says
12:23 theorbtwo Yeah, stick whatever name you want in there.
12:23 theorbtwo "\n"
12:23 autrijus { say $_ }.(@a, @b, @c);
12:24 cognominal for example I want to list the name of all the known function
12:24 autrijus this prints the first element of the first nonnull array, right?
12:24 theorbtwo I'm not sure "all the known functions" are in a hash (yet).
12:24 cognominal so I need a way to enumerate the keys of the global hash
12:24 cognominal or that is what I think
12:25 kungfuftr cognominal: you want to walk the symbol table?
12:25 autrijus oh, you want the symbol table?
12:25 autrijus sure, I can add it in ~1min
12:25 cognominal yea
12:25 autrijus just give me the reference :)
12:25 autrijus %:: ?
12:25 cognominal does not work in pugs
12:25 autrijus is that still %:: ?
12:25 autrijus sure, I'm asking in the bible.
12:26 theorbtwo %MY:: -- L<S02/Names /%MY::/>
12:26 cognominal I like intropectable environments
12:26 kungfuftr "And abraham said, all shall be good if you walk in the way of the symbol table"
12:26 theorbtwo Also, %MyPackage::
12:26 theorbtwo (Just below.)
12:28 kungfuftr oh yay... smoke tests just decided to work again
12:28 theorbtwo I don't see any explicit mention of %*::, but I'm guessing that'd be the really global namespace.
12:28 kungfuftr lots of parse failures
12:30 cognominal "relative" names are conceptually  searched in that order? %MY, %Mypackage, %::
12:30 hlafarge has quit IRC ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
12:30 autrijus that looks sane.
12:30 autrijus please submit tests :)
12:30 cognominal correction:  "relative" names are conceptually  searched in that order? %MY, %Mypackage, %*:: , %::
12:31 cognominal how can I ask for commit privileges?
12:32 autrijus easy; give me your email addr :)
12:33 cognominal [email@hidden.address]
12:35 rgs cognominal, do you read chinese ?
12:35 cognominal not yet
12:36 autrijus cognominal: invitation sent.
12:36 autrijus you will not see chinese :)
12:36 rgs do you know how to say "first born child" in chinese ?
12:36 cognominal thx
12:36 rgs ooh, autrijus, it's translated now :)
12:36 autrijus yeah :)
12:37 cognominal I hope that echo, who handles my mail does not block mails from taiwan
12:38 * castaway wonders idly if GeoIP gets taiwain & china lumped in together
12:42 autrijus yeah :)
12:42 autrijus oops. :)
12:43 castaway it does?
12:43 jabbot pugs - 1761 - * quicksort (slurp param) fixed
12:43 cognominal autrijus: I don't see anything, can you try to send  the invitation to [email@hidden.address] ?
12:44 metaperl has joined #perl6
12:44 gaal does anyone have a pdf or a ps of Two Dozen Short Lessons in Haskell, that interleaves the Q and A pages?
12:46 Limbic_Region chip about?
12:46 Limbic_Region seen chip?
12:46 jabbot Limbic_Region: chip was seen on Fri Apr  8 19:06:05 2005 GMT
12:46 theorbtwo castaway: Nope.
12:46 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: try irc.perl.org?
12:47 theorbtwo 2 days, 15 hours ago.
12:47 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - I will just /msg him
12:47 Limbic_Region his response to a question at the Monastery has be a bit worried
12:47 castaway nope to?
12:48 autrijus cognominal: sent
12:48 rgs has quit IRC ("Fed up")
12:48 theorbtwo no, geoip gets TW for taiwan, not CN.
12:49 cognominal autrijus: thx
12:49 castaway oh, good
12:50 castaway oh, could have checked that myself, so it does
12:51 nothingmuch has quit IRC ()
12:54 theorbtwo Autrijus, your last mail to p6c looks like it was written with the full-width latin chars, at least on my thunderbird.
12:54 autrijus it is not. maybe your big5 encoding font is borken.
12:54 autrijus maybe it uses the ugly MingLiU font.
12:57 theorbtwo Quite possible.
13:03 jabbot pugs - 1763 - * s:perl5:g restored; writeMVal excised
13:03 jabbot pugs - 1762 - * condition really works now, with fromV
13:04 autrijus hangman restored.
13:05 autrijus Test.pm fully unbroken.
13:05 theorbtwo Yey!
13:05 castaway yay!
13:05 shapr yay!
13:05 autrijus someone fix topic please
13:05 autrijus that's as of r1764
13:05 autrijus I'm restoring primitives now.
13:06 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:09 Odin- has joined #perl6
13:10 kungfuftr is the kwiki down?
13:10 autrijus yeah
13:10 kungfuftr ah... k
13:11 Maddingue has quit IRC ("Leaving")
13:13 jabbot pugs - 1765 - * revive Compile.Parrot
13:13 jabbot pugs - 1764 - * IHandle and IRule; hangman restored.
13:16 kungfuftr autrijus: will you be attending YAPC::EU at all?
13:17 xern just added a naive p5 to p6 convertor utilizing regexps only....
13:17 xern it needs much enhancement
13:17 autrijus kungfuftr: not sure, prolly not
13:17 autrijus oh wow!
13:17 kungfuftr xern: PRD goodness?
13:18 * xern is planning to use PPI later.
13:18 xern kungfuftr: ?
13:18 autrijus may I rename it to p5_to_p6.pl?
13:18 autrijus "p526" reads like "page 526"
13:18 castaway :)
13:18 xern sure.... i was worried about the naming too
13:19 autrijus cool.
13:19 autrijus fantastic work.
13:19 autrijus now, dinner first. :) &
13:19 xern but it's quite silly in some way
13:19 xern i'll improvei t
13:19 xern it
13:19 xern kungfuftr: PRD?
13:20 autrijus rgs mentioned mandrakesoft has a GPL version of OCaml perl5 parser
13:20 autrijus if we can port that to Haskell
13:20 autrijus then maybe src/Parser/Perl5.hs :D
13:20 autrijus but, dinner really. &
13:21 kungfuftr xern: parse recdescent
13:22 xern kungfuftr: i considered it, but i'm wondering if PPI is much better than that.
13:23 kungfuftr xern: not sure, as Alias_
13:23 kungfuftr ask*
13:23 jabbot pugs - 1767 - * rename.
13:23 jabbot pugs - 1766 - A super-naive p5-to-p6 convertor
13:24 xern kungfuftr: see here: http://ali.as/CPAN/PPI/index.html   i guess it's better for normal perl5 scripts without Filter::Simple interference.
13:25 xern err... seems like a bad example
13:25 kungfuftr =0)
13:25 xern sorry, wrong url
13:25 kungfuftr i'm sure that it's well doable
13:25 xern ok i see
13:26 xern i'll try to use PPI for p5_to_p6.pl first
13:26 xern perhaps, PRD is good for regexp conversions?
13:27 lightstep has joined #perl6
13:27 * xern is away for a while &
13:28 obra OCaml perl5 parser?
13:28 * obra blinks
13:28 obra how close is it?
13:29 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
13:30 nothingmuch damnit
13:30 theorbtwo Hmm?
13:30 nothingmuch the tree huggers' website only has info about a campaign they're doing
13:30 nothingmuch no contact info for anything else
13:31 * castaway hugs a tree.
13:31 * theorbtwo hugs a tree-hugger.
13:32 nothingmuch castorbway: pasta is back up
13:32 lightstep which org?
13:33 nothingmuch not that it was down... =(
13:33 nothingmuch www.teva.org.il
13:33 lightstep i asked 144 once
13:33 nothingmuch i'm too lazy to get up
13:33 cognominal erl-MDK-Common
13:33 cognominal oops
13:33 nothingmuch but there's d.co.il
13:33 nothingmuch i'm also too lazy to pick up the phone to just call them
13:33 lightstep try clicking ליצירת קשר
13:34 castaway yay, so it is!
13:34 nothingmuch lightstep: only for that campaign
13:34 * castaway hopes it stays up an hour or two til she gets home
13:34 nothingmuch there's the automated answering machine's number at the bottom of the page though
13:35 cognominal autrijus:  it is a perl-checker that parse not too exotic perl5. It is part of perl-MDK-common source rpm package of mandriva
13:35 cognominal madriva being the new mandrakesoft name
13:35 * castaway nudges theorbtwo
13:36 theorbtwo Huh?
13:36 * castaway points to the /msg window
13:39 stevan changes topic to: pugscode.org <<Overview Journal Logs>> | r1764: *Test.pm fully unbroken* (details to follow) | pugs.kwiki.org
13:39 obra Whoa. parrot switched to svn? rockin
13:42 nothingmuch has quit IRC ()
13:43 theorbtwo When is the release?
13:53 castaway WIR? :)
13:53 mdiep has joined #perl6
13:53 Robin_Kin has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:00 mj41 WinXP, nmake failed ... Compiling Compat           ( src/Compat.hs, src/Compat.o )
14:00 mj41 src/Compat.hs:86:20: Not in scope: type constructor or class `UserID'
14:00 mj41 src/Compat.hs:89:25: Not in scope: type constructor or class `UserID'
14:00 mj41 src/Compat.hs:92:21: Not in scope: type constructor or class `GroupID'
14:00 mj41 src/Compat.hs:95:26: Not in scope: type constructor or class `GroupID'
14:03 jabbot pugs - 1769 - s:g/%ENV/%*ENV/
14:03 jabbot pugs - 1768 - Added some debugging statements; Tracked
14:06 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
14:06 nothingmuch is there a well accepted heap
14:06 nothingmuch like structure
14:06 nothingmuch that allows you to insert cheaply
14:07 nothingmuch get the top element cheaply
14:07 nothingmuch i know who it is since i have a ref to it
14:07 nothingmuch but also knows dynamic scoring?
14:07 kungfuftr nothingmuch: yes... a compost heap
14:07 nothingmuch that is, i'd like to yank out an arbitrary element
14:07 nothingmuch and then reinsert it
14:07 nothingmuch was that a joke?
14:08 kungfuftr um... yes
14:08 * kungfuftr hides
14:08 nothingmuch beh
14:08 nothingmuch in a binary heap i could do exactly what I want
14:08 nothingmuch i think
14:08 kungfuftr more context required i thinks
14:09 nothingmuch well, i have a queue
14:10 nothingmuch i'm pushing into it
14:10 nothingmuch and popping out of it
14:10 nothingmuch sorry
14:10 nothingmuch and shifting out of it
14:10 nothingmuch i don't really care what order
14:10 nothingmuch but i can gain a lot if the thing i take out of the queue is good
14:10 nothingmuch because it means i can skip some things in the queue later
14:10 nothingmuch so i need a queue that:
14:11 nothingmuch i can pull out arbitrary things i know of
14:11 nothingmuch that sorts, based on a simple comparison
14:12 nothingmuch and can also be notified when an element needs to be reassessed
14:13 jabbot pugs - 1771 - * change comma to period in japh
14:13 jabbot pugs - 1770 - * "pop" and "shift" restored.
14:14 autrijus hi mj41
14:14 kungfuftr hhhmmm... no idea off hand
14:15 mj41 hi autrijus
14:15 nothingmuch anyway, this is an optimization for later
14:17 autrijus mj41: fixed in trunk r1773
14:17 autrijus please retest
14:17 wolverian er, isn't the "official" JAPH supposed to have a comma?
14:18 autrijus er, is it?
14:18 autrijus wow it is.
14:18 wolverian :)
14:18 autrijus my bad.
14:18 mj41 autrijus: seems ok
14:18 theorbtwo s/official/original/ # Who cares?
14:20 theorbtwo Whoever was looking for chip, he's about #parrot now.
14:20 autrijus now working thru failing tets...
14:20 * castaway points at Limbic_Region
14:23 jabbot pugs - 1774 - * oops. wolverian points out comma is ri
14:23 jabbot pugs - 1773 - * stub Win32's UID/GID for now
14:23 jabbot pugs - 1772 - * env is no longer readonly
14:24 autrijus    unshift av vals = liftIO $ modifyIORef av (map lazyScalar vals ++)
14:24 * autrijus praises superconcise coding
14:26 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
14:26 theorbtwo What's that ++ operator doing?
14:27 lightstep concatenating strings
14:28 theorbtwo What strings -- I thought ++ was an infix operator (unless parened).
14:28 lightstep i meant lists
14:28 lightstep but strings are lists of chars
14:29 theorbtwo What lists -- I though ++ was an infix operator (unless parened).
14:29 lightstep yes
14:29 lightstep l1 ++ l2 = concat [l1, l2]
14:29 theorbtwo And map lazyScalar vals ++
14:30 lightstep ?
14:30 metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
14:31 theorbtwo unshift av vals = liftIO $ modifyIORef av (map lazyScalar vals ++)
14:31 theorbtwo I don't think I understand that code.
14:32 autrijus ("Hello " ++)
14:32 autrijus is a function that takes a string and returns a string.
14:32 lightstep liftIO $    <-- from here on, i specify an IO action to be exewcuted in Eval
14:32 theorbtwo Oh!
14:32 theorbtwo Thank you, autrijus!
14:33 theorbtwo So that's equiv to...
14:33 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
14:33 theorbtwo Er, nevermind, I'm not quite sure how to say that expanded.
14:33 theorbtwo But it's that pointless... er, point-free style.
14:34 theorbtwo ...and partial application of ++.
14:35 ninereasons has joined #perl6
14:35 scw hi, `return' in pugs always returns a list which makes examples/games/animal.p6 break :(
14:36 autrijus scw: ok, fixing
14:37 cognominal has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
14:37 cognominal has joined #perl6
14:39 scw and sorry for that I cannot spend much time on pugs these several weeks.  Midterm now..
14:40 stevan are tests still breaking?
14:41 autrijus stevan: many are recovered
14:41 stevan autrijus: ok,.. I am rebuilding now
14:42 stevan autrijus: are you fixing tests or pugs?
14:42 autrijus pugs
14:43 stevan autrijus: when you are done with Pugs I want to do some more test cleaning
14:43 stevan I found a few duplicated tests, and I think we are ready for a good cleaning
14:45 dvergin has joined #perl6
14:45 autrijus cool
14:45 * castaway hands stevan the broom.
14:47 kungfuftr yay! my wuto-smoker works again
14:49 ninereasons autrijus, hi; thanks for renaming pleac to cookbook.  more immediately recognizable, IMHO
14:50 dvergin so THATS what happened to pleac!!
14:50 dvergin I suggest a bookmark file called examples/pleac for poor fools like me. I was going nuts trying to find it just now
14:51 castaway dvergin: you should read the logs ,)
14:51 ninereasons it's exhausting to read the logs. (but good advice)
14:51 obra dvergin: it was only there for what, a week?
14:52 dvergin Still...
14:52 obra and did it exist in more than one snapshot?
14:52 obra pugs is a pretty fast moving target right now. and leaving around lots of clutter is going to hurt us pretty badly
14:52 dvergin Yes. I try to keep on the logs. But even grepping for pleac was a bit daunting
14:52 * shapr agrees
14:52 castaway ninereasons: sure, but its easy to grep them for mention of something you cant find :)
14:52 dvergin agreed on the clutter issue
14:52 ninereasons to grep i must know what to grep for
14:53 theorbtwo Sadly, svn log rather sucks.
14:53 jabbot pugs - 1775 - * use modifyIORef to speed up arrays
14:53 shapr darcs.cgi is quite sexy, I could keep up a darcs mirror to show pretty changes.
14:53 * dvergin mirrors the irc log as raw text. Works nice.
14:53 obra shapr: example URL/
14:53 obra ?
14:54 castaway hmm, svn log worked fine for me this morning :)
14:54 shapr look at scribble - http://www.scannedinavian.org/cgi-bin/darcs.cgi/wikiwiki/?c=browse
14:54 shapr click on patches
14:54 dvergin Aha. We're talking about searching the svn log. That makes more sense.
14:55 castaway indeed
14:55 castaway sorry, didnt mean the irc one
14:56 ninereasons ah.  yes, i was talking about irc re: "exhausting"
14:56 * dvergin tires of the mechanics sometimes
14:56 dvergin Can't find the svn log. I know I've seen it.
14:57 castaway type "svn log" :)
14:57 dvergin <giggle>
14:58 shapr obra: interesting for interactive visualization of changes?
14:58 * obra isn't seeing anything that special
14:58 shapr ok
14:58 obra http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/Source/index.html/pugs/log/ may be useful to me
14:58 * obra may be missing where to look
15:03 shapr obra: the sexy darcs.cgi changes look like this - http://www.scannedinavian.org/cgi-bin/darcs.cgi/hackage/Packages.hs?c=annotate
15:03 jabbot pugs - 1777 - Forget to s/%ENV/%*ENV/ in the test desc
15:03 jabbot pugs - 1776 - Added very preliminary tests for macros.
15:04 shapr And you can click on any line to jump to the patch where it was committed, etc
15:05 obra oh. an annotate mode
15:06 ninereasons that's pretty impressive, shapr
15:06 shapr I haven't used svn much, is there something equivalent?
15:06 integral svn blame possibly
15:07 clkao the deleted one is the last modification only i presume?
15:07 ninereasons I like how every line is a link - the url is too long to read, is a history of changes retained on each revision, and linked?
15:08 shapr clkao: yes, but you can jump to any patch to see what happened there.
15:08 shapr ninereasons: yes, pretty much.
15:09 ninereasons combined with wiki editing, darcs would make things go very wikiwiki!
15:10 shapr Yeah, I think the rss link is cute too.
15:13 shapr Is util/testgraph.pl expected to generate the linked pages at some point?
15:13 theorbtwo shapr: util/categorize_tests is for that.
15:13 jabbot pugs - 1779 - Added test for paren-less 'defined'.
15:13 jabbot pugs - 1778 - Added some more tests for %*ENV.
15:17 metaperl has joined #perl6
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15:22 Corion has joined #perl6
15:22 Corion has quit IRC (Client Quit)
15:22 Corion has joined #perl6
15:23 shapr I really like the generated pugs-smoke.html, it is way spiffy.
15:24 shapr I've been wishing for something like pugs-smoke that works for a wiki. I'd like to be able to specify a regex match or something as a 'unit test' and have the cells in a table turn red or green depending on whether it works. Sort of like fit/fitnesse.
15:25 shapr Where do I get Perl6-Bible for catalog_tests?
15:25 castaway htp://search.cpan.org
15:25 castaway oops
15:25 castaway or just use your "cpan" installer
15:25 nnunley has joined #perl6
15:26 mj41 WinXP, r1773, 587/4256 subtests failed, 86.21% okay
15:26 autrijus hangman now hangs.
15:26 autrijus r1780
15:26 ninereasons in r1775: my @a = 1..2; # *** Error: cannot writeRef at {ref:<Array>}
15:26 theorbtwo changes topic to: pugscode.org <<Overview Journal Logs>> | r1773/winxp: 587/4256 | pugs.kwiki.org
15:27 * Corion lights another pug. It's so hard to make good smoke from pugs ...
15:27 autrijus 587/4256 failed!?
15:27 autrijus oh my.
15:28 theorbtwo It could be worse.  587/4256 could have *succeeded*.
15:28 andras has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
15:28 autrijus heh.
15:28 Corion Oh. "not a lvalue: Val( VStr "Hello World" )
15:29 autrijus what where eh?
15:29 Corion autrijus: In t/builtins/uc.t and t/builtins/lc.t
15:29 shapr that looks like it needs fromVal
15:31 * shapr uses cpan for the first time
15:31 Corion The first hit is always free!
15:32 * shapr tokes on a lambda
15:33 Corion Oy vey - the -I tests fail :)
15:33 jabbot pugs - 1780 - * return() and &?CALLER_CONTINUATION() a
15:33 mj41 http://wiki.kn.vutbr.cz/mj/index.cgi?diff_revision=1.16&amp;action=Diff&amp;page_id=Pugs+on+MS+Windows&amp;current_revision=1.17&amp;last_revision=1.17
15:35 ninereasons re: the "cannot writeRef" error (above)?  could that be the result of hs-plugins not being installed on this machine?
15:35 theorbtwo Shouldn't.
15:35 theorbtwo Makefile.PL now detects if hs-plugins is available or not.
15:36 theorbtwo Also, the functionality that hs-plugins allows for is untested.
15:36 ninereasons the build completed. but the completed pugs produces that error in r1775
15:37 autrijus just a sec
15:37 Corion ... maybe it's now time to rip out compatibility functionality out of P5, to make setEnv actually work on Win32 ;)))
15:37 co2 has joined #perl6
15:38 autrijus Corion: look at your ghc's docs/libraries/
15:38 autrijus err doc/html/libraries/
15:38 autrijus you should see System.Win32.*
15:38 autrijus including a System.Win32.DLL that can let you call arbitary win32 api
15:39 Corion autrijus: w00t ! That'll get me started with porting $*PID
15:40 andras has joined #perl6
15:41 dvergin Is there a searchable archive of perl.perl6.language? Google groups search seems to work but then cannot find the hits it reports.
15:42 dvergin I can't find anywhere to just download the whole mess.
15:43 jabbot pugs - 1781 - Cleanup.
15:45 ninereasons maybe you need to set loose a bot on www.nntp.perl.org, dvergin, to slurp up the perl.perl6.language directory ?
15:45 Corion Or just send Ask an email, maybe :)
15:45 ninereasons maybe :)
15:46 dvergin ninereasons: thought of that. Was looking for something pre-existing
15:46 autrijus %ENV.delete(<USER PATH>)
15:46 autrijus woot, works.
15:46 dvergin Corion: what is "Ask"?
15:46 theorbtwo Ask Bjorn Hansen.
15:46 ninereasons "There will be more nifty features like threading, searching and better navigation later. "
15:46 Corion Ask Bjoern Hansen. That's his name. His first name is "Ask".
15:47 ninereasons "Please send comments to Ask (address at the bottom of the page)"
15:47 ninereasons http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/
15:47 theorbtwo Bjørn, really.
15:47 * dvergin goes off to investigate
15:48 * Corion is too lazy :)
15:50 Corion The RED ! It burns my eyes! http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html r1780
15:51 autrijus it's actually not too bad :p
15:52 theorbtwo changes topic to: pugscode.org <<Overview Journal Logs>> | r1773/winxp: 587/4256 smoke/win2k (occasional): http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html | pugs.kwiki.org
15:53 theorbtwo changes topic to: pugscode.org <<Overview Journal Logs>> | r1773/winxp: 587/4256 smoke/win2k (occasional): http://xrl.us/fqum | pugs.kwiki.org
15:53 jabbot pugs - 1782 - * delete() and exists().
15:56 autrijus argh
15:56 autrijus my @array = <a b c d>;
15:56 autrijus is ~@array.delete(2), "c",
15:56 autrijus is ~@array, "a b d",              "deletion of an array element";
15:56 autrijus who wrote this thing? :)
15:56 * shapr runs svn blame
15:58 shapr jabbot has commit access??
15:59 saorge has joined #perl6
15:59 autrijus what?
15:59 * shapr is joking
16:00 shapr svn blame actually shows iblech
16:00 autark-jp has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
16:00 autark-jp has joined #perl6
16:01 shapr Is it good or bad code?
16:02 autrijus it's mistaking an array for a hash :)
16:02 shapr ah
16:02 autrijus deleting things from an array should not shorten it.
16:04 shapr ok, how do I install Perl6-Bible with cpan?
16:04 theorbtwo perl -MCPAN -eshell
16:04 theorbtwo install Perl6-Bible
16:05 autrijus may need root permission
16:05 shapr maybe Perl6::Bible ?
16:05 lightstep has quit IRC ("leaving")
16:05 shapr aha!
16:06 theorbtwo Either -- Perl6-Bible is the distribution, which includes a module named Perl6::Bible
16:06 shapr yay
16:06 iblech has joined #perl6
16:06 iblech autrijus: [S29] Deleted elements at the end of an Array shorten the length of the Array
16:06 autrijus iblech: it's not at the end.
16:07 iblech autrijus: Oh, ok, sorry -- fixing
16:07 autrijus err, no
16:07 autrijus I've fixed locally
16:07 autrijus let me commit first
16:07 iblech ok
16:08 iblech (I unTODOed and unEVALed exists.t and delete.t too, btw -- already checked in)
16:08 autrijus delete.t all passes. please sanity check.
16:08 autrijus also, +%hash is right
16:08 autrijus no need to say .keys
16:08 autrijus I'm working on exists.t now
16:10 autrijus need to make exists() work on infinite lists
16:10 autrijus I mean arrays
16:11 gaal is a release planned today? (hi all)
16:11 autrijus it is.
16:11 autrijus depends on whether I can get the fixes in time.
16:11 theorbtwo Allo, gaal.
16:12 gaal i hope i can be of use, then.
16:12 iblech autrijus: [delete.t] looks sane, and I added a comment explaining the double spaces
16:12 autrijus audit tests :)
16:12 ninereasons having trouble installing hs-plugins on freebsd
16:12 ninereasons "/src/altdata doesn't exist"
16:13 autrijus try gmake?
16:13 autrijus it works on my fbsd 5.4pre
16:13 jabbot pugs - 1785 - Added a comment explaining the double sp
16:13 jabbot pugs - 1784 - * .delete all works.
16:13 jabbot pugs - 1783 - * UnTODOed and unEVALed the tests for ex
16:14 ninereasons gmake fails.  I'll investigate further; (freebsd 4.11)
16:15 ninereasons ah.  it assumes chroot "/src/altdata" leading slash
16:15 theorbtwo Odd...
16:18 xkb has joined #perl6
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16:23 jabbot pugs - 1786 - * exists.t now passes.
16:27 bradb has quit IRC ("back in a bit")
16:29 gaal has left
16:30 _metaperl has joined #perl6
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16:32 dvergin_ has joined #perl6
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16:32 andras_ is now known as andras
16:32 kcwu gugod: how about let jabbot tell 10 more characters of log message?
16:34 autrijus and how about let it not reverse?
16:35 metaperl_ has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
16:38 cognominal hum, I don't quite grok svk yet
16:39 cognominal svk  push -C /home/stef/svk/pugs/  # prints the modified files
16:39 cognominal svk push  /home/stef/svk/pugs #  says "Empty merge"
16:41 stevan autrijus: am I doing something wrong? I am still getting "cannot writeRef Val (VRef <Scalar>)" on all the tests
16:41 stevan (BTW - I am doing 'make optimized')
16:43 ninereasons 'make optimized' maybe that's the issue (same here)
16:43 * stevan tries plain 'make'
16:44 cognominal with the -l option it did work!
16:44 stevan -l ?
16:45 iblech FYI, pugs compiled with plain "make" works
16:45 ninereasons thanks iblech. I'll stop wrestling with plugins for the present, then.
16:46 stevan its alive!!!!
16:46 theorbtwo Make optimized causes -dcore-lint to barf, meaning that there are probably bugs lurking there.
16:46 iblech (But a plain make <-> make optimized should make no difference -- Unless GHC has bugs?!)
16:47 cognominal stevan: I had to do a "svk push -l" to get my changes commited
16:47 autrijus hrmph hrmph
16:47 autrijus which means maybe I should try to kill .hs-boot
16:47 metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:47 _metaperl is now known as metaperl
16:47 autrijus because that seems to be triggering all sorts of ghc bugs
16:48 ninereasons same bug, partially squished, as yesterday's 'cor-lint' bug?
16:48 autrijus oh well. so much for cutting edge treatment of mutual recursive modules
16:48 dvergin has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:51 ninereasons autrijus, will a negative index work no an infinite array, eventually?
16:51 ninereasons or is that crazy talk?
16:51 autrijus ninereasons: I very much doubt so.
16:52 stevan ninereasons: that *is* crazy talk
16:52 ninereasons :)
16:52 andras has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Mozilla rv:1.8b/20050217]")
16:52 iblech I remember this question on p6l and Larry saying something like "I suppose yes"
16:52 Boogie has joined #perl6
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16:52 ninereasons I have to train myself not to think "Inf eq end-unknown"
16:53 iblech i.e. my @array = (1,2, 3..Inf, 10,11); say @array[-1]; # ==> 11
16:53 stevan given enough time and memory,.. anything is possible :)
16:53 jabbot pugs - 1788 - * keys_values.t passes.
16:53 jabbot pugs - 1787 -  r14@stefp:  stef | 2005-04-11 17:46:23
16:53 stevan autrijus: so the current task is test auditing right?
16:55 autrijus stevan: yes.
16:55 hawkaloogie has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:56 clkao sb goto 00:37
16:56 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
16:57 * stevan looks for some good test auditing music ....
16:57 stevan t/oo/proxy has some unexpected succeeds :)
16:58 iblech BTW, autrijus, would it be hard to implement next() inside of for loops?
16:58 autrijus iblech: probably not hard.
16:58 autrijus it's just my mind's in IType right now :)
16:58 iblech :) np
16:58 autrijus it's basically just creating a lexical next()
16:58 autrijus that invokes the CC
16:59 autrijus that's code for return() in Monads.hs
17:02 theorbtwo Shouldn't it be more like ret() and less like return()?
17:02 autrijus what is this ret()?
17:03 jabbot pugs - 1789 - unTODOed tests which pass.
17:05 metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
17:05 cognominal pugs> print keys %ENV
17:05 cognominal Segmentation fault
17:05 zuulvin_ has joined #perl6
17:05 theorbtwo Hmm, can't find it now.
17:05 iblech plain '%*ENV;' segfaults in the interactive pugs here, too
17:05 iblech but it works in "pugs -e '...'" or in test scripts
17:06 autrijus same here.
17:06 autrijus maybe readline? maybe something else?
17:06 ninereasons gah - segfault and now pugs-interactive is hung
17:07 iblech (FYI, r1790 -- unTODOed all tests which pass)
17:08 cognominal iblech: same here
17:08 gaal has joined #perl6
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17:13 kcwu same here
17:13 jabbot pugs - 1791 - Ported a Perl 5 solution to QoTW regular
17:13 jabbot pugs - 1790 - unTODOed two other tests which pass.
17:17 jhorwitz has joined #perl6
17:20 elmex has joined #perl6
17:24 stevan ninereasons: do you mind if I remove fail_is() from Test.pm?
17:25 stevan I think test functions like that are confusing, and ok(not($a == $b)) or something similar is easier to read
17:26 stevan ninereasons: even better,.. I will rename it to isnt()
17:26 ninereasons certainly
17:27 stevan ninereasons: I just dont like the word fail, becuase it implies the test will fail (like the fail() function does),.. but that is not what you are actually after
17:27 ninereasons i never liked it much, stevan; and used it for lack of imagination :)
17:28 ninereasons "fail if match" is what I wanted
17:28 stevan ninereasons: I changed it to isnt() and adding a unlike(), and I stole them from Test::More so no imagination here :)
17:29 autrijus hew, cleaned up builtins/keys_and_values/
17:29 autrijus test driven++
17:29 * autrijus looks for a uptodate smoke chart
17:30 ninereasons you guys are awesome fast.  
17:30 autrijus stevan: can you sanitize builtins/io/?
17:30 autrijus if there's no too appalling failures there, I'd like you to unTODO/TODO them before release
17:30 autrijus I don't think 6.2.0 can deal with them
17:31 * ninereasons retires to the couch
17:31 stevan autrijus: sure
17:31 gaal autrijus, util/run-smoke.pl?
17:31 autrijus oh, there's that?
17:31 autrijus thanks
17:31 autrijus I'm so behind on util/ technologies
17:31 castaway :)
17:32 gaal nothingmuch has somthing he's using, too, in an svn up ; get_a_smoke_test loop.
17:32 gaal but it's proprietary technology and closed source! :)
17:32 * castaway notes more things unexpectedly suceeding
17:33 jabbot pugs - 1794 - * cleanup redundant eval
17:33 jabbot pugs - 1793 - * pick.t passes.
17:33 jabbot pugs - 1792 - * pairs.t passes.
17:33 autrijus must be doing something right then
17:34 castaway indeed (this is one from 2 hrs ago)
17:34 gaal hmm, i should talk with kff about removign the dep on Shell since it isn't being used consistently there anyway
17:35 stevan autrijus: it seems that isa_ok() is broken
17:35 stevan (it was a hack anyway)
17:35 autrijus broken how?
17:35 iblech stevan and others: Just as a remainder, you don't have to TODO failing tests in the test files, but you can simply edit t/force_todo
17:35 castaway Corion ?
17:35 gaal stevan: can i help with anything?
17:35 stevan iblech: yes, actually can you help getting started on that,. I am not sure I get it
17:35 autrijus right. but don't blindly force_todo
17:36 autrijus first check for sanity :)
17:36 iblech stevan: Of course
17:36 castaway oh, iblech, you speak german too, right?
17:36 autrijus iblech: so, please start from builtins/io/
17:36 castaway Would "telenummer" mean "telefonnummer" to you, or something else?
17:36 stevan autrijus: isa_ok() just checked the ref(), which is returning 'Scalar::Const' at the moment
17:37 iblech castaway: Yes. And yes, it'd mean "telefonnummer" for me
17:37 iblech autrijus: Ok
17:37 castaway ta.. (silly finanzamt)
17:37 gaal i'm getting "Val (VRef <Scalar>)" crashes after each test on msys
17:38 gaal .cannot writeRef
17:38 ninereasons force_todo won't work on fatal parsefails, though, will it ?  or is that just what it's for?
17:38 autrijus stevan: please use index()
17:38 stevan autrijus: index() where?
17:38 autrijus Scalar::Const isa Scalar
17:38 ninereasons gall, don't "make optimized"
17:38 autrijus because index() test holds true
17:39 autrijus hack hack ;)
17:39 ninereasons gaa, don't "make optimized" (sorry)
17:39 stevan autrijus: It returns that for hashes too :)
17:39 autrijus aww.
17:39 autrijus oh well. forget I said that.
17:39 stevan and arrays and everything
17:39 autrijus clearly we need a true "isa" primitive.
17:39 stevan either I can hack it for a bit or just make it TODO all the tests for now
17:39 ninereasons i give up on getting your nick right, gaal :(
17:39 autrijus stevan: I'll hack on a isa. sec
17:40 stevan autrijus: even better :)
17:40 gaal ah, thanks 9r (don't worry about it, i keep mistyping it too)
17:40 gaal (and it's my name, not just my nick :)
17:41 ninereasons even worse for me :(
17:41 theorbtwo BTW, how do you pronounce it?
17:41 gaal hard g, flat ah
17:42 shapr This is niner niner zelda comin atcha
17:43 autrijus oh btw, stevan
17:43 stevan autrijus: yes...
17:43 gaal brb, tea+snack dinner
17:43 ingy hola
17:43 ninereasons don't stop bouncing, shapr :)
17:44 autrijus nvm
17:44 autrijus I was confused about ref().
17:44 stevan shapr: you got a smokey on yur tail, back atcha!
17:44 shapr yay, citizens band!
17:44 osfameron_ has joined #perl6
17:45 ingy shapr: what's your 10-20 good buddy?
17:45 shapr I used to live in "circle city"
17:45 osfameron_ has quit IRC (Client Quit)
17:45 stevan I just used to watch "Smokey and the Bandit" when I was a kid :)
17:45 castaway oooh.. I love that film (those films)
17:46 stevan classics of american cinema :P
17:46 shapr How the heck do I describe my 10-20? Is there a CB name for Sweden?
17:47 * castaway advises nothingmuch's SEE to brace for impact ,)
17:47 stevan shapr: "up in the great white north where the girls are pretty, but your freeze your,... over and out"
17:47 shapr haha
17:49 gcom hey all...i wrote an example assuming that $string.chars will return a list in list context, but i can't find anything that verifies this
17:50 gcom seems like a nicer alternative to unpack or split, if it does indeed work
17:51 ninereasons I'm not sure that it should work that way, gcom
17:51 Qiang-wek has joined #perl6
17:52 gcom the only documentation for char seems to be that it is one of the replacements for a length concept
17:52 gcom *chars
17:52 autrijus gcom: it's not specced like that, although I can see it's interesting.
17:52 autrijus gcom: p6l! p6l!
17:53 gcom sorry, wrong forum :)
17:53 autrijus $ ./pugs -MTest -e "isa_ok(%ENV, 'Hash')"
17:53 autrijus ok 1 - The object is-a 'Hash'
17:53 autrijus $ ./pugs -MTest -e "isa_ok(%ENV, 'Scalar')"
17:53 autrijus not ok 1 - The object is-a 'Scalar'
17:53 autrijus #   Failed test (-e at line 3, column 1)
17:53 autrijus #   Expected: Scalar
17:53 autrijus #        Got: Hash::Env
17:53 autrijus yay!
17:53 jabbot pugs - 1797 - TODOed all failing IO tests.
17:53 autrijus honest-to-god .isa
17:53 jabbot pugs - 1796 - * refactor lc/uc etc into op1Str and op1
17:53 jabbot pugs - 1795 - Added comment to t/force_todo.
17:53 iblech I TODOed all failing IO tests (r1797). Because of uncatchable dies in io_in_[while|for]_loops.t I had to manually skip() those tests.
17:53 stevan autrijus++
17:54 autrijus landed as r1798
17:54 autrijus enjoy
17:54 stevan iblech: thats good
17:54 stevan autrijus: thanks :)
17:54 justatheory has quit IRC ()
17:56 kungfuftr ah... home and fed
17:56 autrijus stevan: you may wish to update ChangeLog some :)
17:56 stevan autrijus: I will
17:56 autrijus danke
17:56 autrijus and I think I won't stay up and push 6.2.0 out when I'm dizzy
17:56 autrijus I think do it right after I wake up is better idea
17:56 crysflame oo, 6.2.0
17:57 crysflame :)
17:57 autrijus although I think the codebase is finally in okay shape now
17:57 autrijus I need to fix t/data_types/ now
17:57 osfameron has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:58 bradb has joined #perl6
17:59 rafl has quit IRC (No route to host)
18:00 gaal t/statements/gather....ok 3/5pugs.exe: Prelude.(!!): negative index
18:00 autrijus yup, saw that
18:01 kungfuftr pid still broken too?
18:02 autrijus worksforme, but I'm not on win32
18:02 kungfuftr i'm on freebsd 4.11
18:02 autrijus weird, worksforme.
18:02 autrijus $ ./pugs -e '$PID.say'
18:02 autrijus 67834
18:02 iblech works for me, too (Linux, GHC 6.4)
18:03 stevan me too
18:03 kungfuftr oh... works now
18:03 kungfuftr must be the churn
18:03 jabbot pugs - 1801 - changed fail_is() usage to isnt()
18:03 jabbot pugs - 1800 - added todo_isnt/unlike(); added tests fo
18:03 jabbot pugs - 1799 - changed fail_is() to isnt() and added un
18:03 jabbot pugs - 1798 - * .isa() primitive.
18:04 stevan ok,.. so how are we doing here,.. what tests should I work on?
18:04 ninereasons my @a = 'a'..'d';
18:05 ninereasons @a[1,2] = @a[2,1]
18:05 ninereasons @a[1..2] = @a[2,1]
18:05 gaal stevan, what's fail_is? (is it obsoleted?)
18:05 ninereasons ('a', 'c', ('b', 'c'), 'd')
18:05 ninereasons ?
18:05 Corion_ has joined #perl6
18:06 ninereasons fail_is is now "isnt"
18:07 gaal ahh, thanks.
18:07 autrijus ninereasons: fixing that
18:08 autrijus fixed. you have a test for that?
18:08 ninereasons I was trying to think of a sensible to write it
18:08 ninereasons my example is silly
18:09 autrijus sigh, Exp should be GADTs, that way we can avoid that sort of error.
18:09 autrijus but not 6.2.0.
18:09 Corion_ castaway: Back
18:09 ninereasons maybe it's something noone would ever do anyway
18:10 autrijus I'm sure someone will.
18:10 autrijus I will ;)
18:11 ninereasons so would I, perhaps, but for exactly opposite reasons that you would
18:11 ninereasons (igorance ! eq foo)
18:12 autrijus anyway, the fix is in.
18:13 ninereasons you rock, autrijus
18:14 autrijus :)
18:15 rgs has joined #perl6
18:16 nnunley has quit IRC (Read error: 111 (Connection refused))
18:16 ninereasons kungfuftr, have you succeeded in getting hs-plugins to install?
18:16 ninereasons on freebsd 4.11 ?
18:23 Corion has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:23 jabbot pugs - 1804 - * ninereasons spotted that `@a[1..2]` im
18:23 jabbot pugs - 1803 - TODOed statements/* and rules/rules_refs
18:23 jabbot pugs - 1802 - * fix some golf syntax
18:23 ninereasons hmm.  the tests now completely exhaust my knowledge of perl6 (and some).
18:24 ninereasons back to the docs for me, I think.
18:25 iblech has quit IRC ("school tomorrow; off")
18:26 autrijus nice
18:26 Corion_ pugs smoke chart at http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html (of r 1803)
18:27 Corion_ is now known as Corion
18:27 autrijus infinite slices now work again
18:28 ninereasons $infinite_slices++ !
18:28 Corion is now known as Corion_
18:28 autrijus that should make the golfs happy.
18:31 gaal http://forum2.org/gaal/pugs/tests_winxp.html - r1794 - winxp/msys
18:31 gaal had to inline the css though :(
18:33 jabbot pugs - 1808 - * add enterRValue
18:33 jabbot pugs - 1807 - * constant arrays no longer out-of-bound
18:33 jabbot pugs - 1806 - * =<> works again
18:33 jabbot pugs - 1805 - * infinite slices now work.
18:33 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
18:33 autrijus it's interesting comparing 1794 to 1803 :)
18:35 gaal we run on cygwin?
18:35 gaal the tests should s/cygwin/msys/ afaict
18:37 stevan so are we not just TODOing test? (in the force_todo file)
18:41 stevan autrijus: array refs seem to show up as Scalar with .isa(),.. is that correct?
18:41 autrijus no. fixing that
18:41 stevan autrijus: ok
18:41 autrijus as we speak, even
18:42 stevan t/builtins/list/reverse.t has that error a number of times
18:42 stevan (in case your looking for a good test case)
18:42 gaal t/subroutines/subroutine.t infinitlooping again?
18:43 gaal affter test 13: use @_ in sub
18:43 jabbot pugs - 1811 - force-TODO-ind t/builtins/list/sort.t &
18:43 jabbot pugs - 1810 - * for(){} should not be parsed as hash d
18:43 jabbot pugs - 1809 - forcing TODO on t/builtins/list/join.t
18:45 ninereasons this rate of revision is dizzying. it's like a wikpedia edit war without the acrimony
18:45 PerlJam Is there some reason jabbot reports them in reverse order?
18:47 stevan PerlJam: something to do with the the rotation of the earth and how fast development is
18:47 PerlJam stevan++ heh
18:47 stevan kinda like in the first Superman when Lois' car fell in the earthquake
18:47 ninereasons shouldn't they be in the right order in australia, then?
18:48 stevan ninereasons: (shhh dont spoil the illusion)
18:48 ninereasons stevan, i was hoping an australian would confirm !
18:49 autrijus stevan: that's fixed. I fixed ref.t too
18:50 autrijus as of r1812.
18:50 Odin- has joined #perl6
18:51 autrijus pugs> my $a = 123; $a.isa('Int')
18:51 autrijus bool::true
18:51 autrijus pugs> my $a = 123; $a.isa('StrStr')
18:51 autrijus bool::false
18:51 autrijus err, s/StrStr/Str/
18:51 autrijus ok. I need to 1)shower 2)journal 3)sleep. :)
18:52 ninereasons *applause*
18:52 autrijus meanwhile, please keep the tests that are regressions from before-itype time (i.e. those that really shouldn't fail) as fails
18:52 autrijus and force_todo nonregressions
18:52 autrijus and update ChangeLog
18:52 autrijus so I can fix the regressions and push out 6.2.0 when I wake up
18:53 autrijus much thanks =)
18:53 stevan autrijus: will do
18:53 autrijus #perl6++
18:53 castaway nm Corion, already got it, ta
18:53 autrijus thanks folks :D
18:53 Corion_ is now known as Corion
18:53 jabbot pugs - 1812 - * isa_ok works... ref() now works again
18:53 castaway night autrijus!
18:54 autrijus what, 70 commits today.
18:54 ninereasons 103 occupants (counting bots and zombies)  build it and they will come
18:54 stevan autrijus: that depends on when you consider "today" to end :)
18:56 elmex i had a splendid idea.. why not let pugs parse java instead of perl6? ;)
18:56 Corion elmex: Feel free to write a Java parser+interpreter in Perl6 or Haskell
18:57 Corion (plus runtime :) )
18:57 Corion Java itself shouldn't be too hard, at least much easier than Perl
18:59 elmex java sucks (sorry for the harsh word)
19:00 Corion brb (rebooting firefox)
19:00 Corion has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 0.10.1/20041001]")
19:01 Corion has joined #perl6
19:02 ninereasons what is that, Corion?  [Firefox 0.10.1/20041001] ?
19:03 Corion ninereasons: Chat!Zilla - JavaScript irc client written in/for FireFox
19:03 ninereasons [Firefox 1.0.2/20050317]
19:03 Corion ... has nice rendering, works with UTF8, and I could actually modify the UI, if I wanted to
19:03 Corion See http://www.hacksrus.com/~ginda/chatzilla/
19:04 ninereasons mine is Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.2/20050317] (not on it now, though)
19:04 ninereasons it was the firefox version # that caught my eye
19:05 Corion ninereasons: Eh - dunno - I didn't play with any of the FF version settings. I think I have 1.0.1 or whatever.
19:05 Corion ... maybe that's a bug or something.
19:05 ninereasons hm
19:05 autrijus hrm. {} is a closure.
19:05 Corion Yah. I'm using Mozilla Firefox 1.0pre
19:06 autrijus I want it to be a hash. I see little use for it as a closure.
19:06 Corion autrijus: I think "{}" is/could be an empty hash, while "{ }" could be a closure.
19:06 autrijus awwww
19:06 Corion Like &noop = { };
19:06 Corion (so there is a use for empty closures)
19:06 Corion welcome to Python land, where Whitespace matters ! :)
19:07 Corion (but the time when whitespace didn't matter in Perl is long gone anyway)
19:07 gaal whitespace already does
19:07 Corion autrijus: Or disambiguate by +{}
19:07 gaal yeah :/
19:07 ninereasons autrijus, should we tell your mommy that you're not in bed?
19:07 Corion (like map does in P5)
19:07 Corion ninereasons: He's in the shower.
19:07 ninereasons hah, Corion :)
19:07 autrijus yup.
19:07 stevan autrijus: BTW - $handle.isa(Handle) fails but ref($handle) returns 'Handle'
19:08 Corion We-ird. Now, t/data_types/array_ref.t seems to hang and eat 100% CPU
19:08 Corion at r1812
19:08 Corion (win2k)
19:08 autrijus I see. that. skip it for now?
19:08 autrijus mark it as a fail
19:09 stevan (do you mean me or Corion)
19:09 stevan or both
19:09 Corion autrijus: Will do so (marking it as "skip" ? or into the untodo list ?)
19:09 Corion "untodo" won't help much with an endless loop :)
19:10 autrijus skip_fail or something
19:10 gaal the harness should handle that kind of thing, by rights
19:10 Corion autrijus: Will do so, once my make test finishes
19:10 gaal my mind stopped working about thirty minutes ago or i'd do it
19:10 autrijus stevan: fixed
19:10 autrijus * 'Handle' is spelled 'IO' in S06.
19:10 Corion gaal: That requires alarm() or something like that. Which is hard to do.
19:10 autrijus r1813
19:11 gaal Corion, not reallt, becasue the harness is still p5
19:11 stevan svn up; make; :)
19:11 Corion gaal: Still requires alarm()
19:11 gaal so?
19:12 Corion gaal: Win32 native build doesn't have alarm() :)
19:12 gaal ah.
19:12 xkb_ has joined #perl6
19:13 gaal ultimately the test is run with open |. how does that work in win32?
19:13 jabbot pugs - 1813 - * 'Handle' is spelled 'IO' in S06.
19:13 Corion gaal: Win32 has open2 and open3
19:14 gaal they CreateProcess?
19:14 Corion gaal: Hmmm. alarm() is half-working on Win32 native Perl, BTW
19:15 Corion gaal: Yes - they don't rely on the shell, which doesn't really do |foo, and CreateProcess with the correct handles.
19:15 gaal t/subroutines/subroutine.t still seems to get stuck on msys, perl 1812
19:16 gaal well, threads work ok on win32, don't they? it means branching code and ickiness, but it can be done
19:16 Corion gaal: Sure ;)
19:16 Corion Where/how do I install additional Haskell libs ? I'd like to install the fabled System.Win32.DLL, but everything I find are the "fptools" ...
19:16 gaal quesion is whether we can assume perl itself has threading enabled
19:17 gaal on that platform anyway
19:17 Corion I get three unexpected successes - should I skip those or promote those?
19:17 stevan autrijus: how many hours till you wake up? (So I know when to get the changelog done by)
19:18 autrijus 10 hours
19:18 autrijus or 9
19:19 stevan Corion: where were the successes?
19:20 Corion stevan: Dunno - I think http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html showed them in undef.t somewhere
19:21 stevan what color are they?
19:22 Corion dark red
19:22 Corion #15 in undef.t for example
19:22 stevan I expect the "non-existent hash subscript" one does work now
19:22 stevan so that can be promoted
19:23 stevan the FIXME parsefail right beloe that (line 63) might work now too
19:23 Corion go go go ! :)
19:23 jabbot pugs - 1816 - Fixed accidential overeager commit
19:23 jabbot pugs - 1815 - skipping 2 tests in array_ref.t for rele
19:23 jabbot pugs - 1814 - Handle is now spelt IO in the tests too;
19:23 Corion I'm making a new smoke chart
19:23 xkb has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:23 gaal yay - can't wait for when the last block in that file gets to be uncommented :)
19:24 Corion ... and I should get a second checkout for development, so my bogus modified versions don't get committed accidentially :(
19:24 stevan Corion: I am grabbing some lunch while I 'make test'
19:24 stevan gaal: AUTOLOAD,.. YUK!!!! :P
19:24 gaal it's *refined* AUTOLOAD :)
19:24 stevan although this is better than perl5 AUTOLOAD
19:25 stevan gaal: OT - is what I read in the backlog true,.. your going to jail soon?
19:25 gaal likely, yes.
19:25 Corion Hah. I just had a brilliant idea - I can wipe my whole source tree except the root .svn directory, so I get a clean checkout without having to re-setup the password/login/location
19:25 stevan because your refuse to do the military service in the occupied territories right?
19:26 Corion gaal: That sucks indeed - but last I knew, you didn't even have public/civil service in .il ...
19:26 gaal yes, that's true. but it's not like i'm dead set on jail :) if they offer me another task, i'll take it
19:26 autrijus oh wow. I did it. someone write a test for it?
19:26 Corion gaal: But props to you for not working in the occupied areas!
19:26 autrijus pugs> my $a = { 1 => 2 }; $a.ref
19:26 autrijus Hash
19:27 gaal autrijus, what, autoload? yes, bottom of undef.t, ages ago
19:27 stevan gaal++ # for standing up to The Man!
19:27 autrijus gaal: no, hash composition
19:27 autrijus aka anonhash.
19:27 stevan autrijus: I think we might have a test for that somewhere
19:27 stevan if not we will write it :)
19:27 autrijus good. then watch out for unexpected successes :)
19:28 gaal Corion, there's compulsory military service in Israel, 18-36 months
19:28 gaal (36 for 18-yr-o males)
19:28 * stevan has to grab lunch for real before this coffee rots a hole in his gut
19:29 Corion gaal: In Germany too (but shorter), but I didn't know that you had an option out of the "military" part of the service.
19:29 ninereasons autrijus, that worked before ITypes  - nice to have it back!
19:29 gaal oh, no, in the normal case you don't.
19:29 Corion All fails will be fixed by modifying the basic force_todo file, right?
19:29 autrijus ninereasons: really? somehow I don't remember that
19:29 Corion gaal: Oh ?
19:30 justatheory has joined #perl6
19:30 ninereasons I didn't write a test for it, but you can see it in the irc log from a couple of days ago
19:30 autrijus { 1 => 2 }.{1} # I don't thinks there's code for it
19:30 gaal i'm way after my regular service. like most israelis i get called to do reserve duty every now and then
19:30 autrijus really. interesting
19:30 * gaal is old
19:30 Corion gaal: Ewww. That's ugly !
19:31 gaal autrijus, is that supposed to eval to 2?
19:31 autrijus yes.
19:31 Corion gaal: "luckily", the only thing They can draft me for is sweeping minefields ...
19:31 autrijus it now does
19:31 gaal they can draft me for sweeping the floor if they want :)
19:32 ninereasons my %hash = map -> @a { @a[0] => @a[1..Inf] } @z;
19:32 gaal wow, cool
19:32 ninereasons worked (but maybe it shouldn' t have) a few days ago
19:32 xkb has joined #perl6
19:33 gaal ...and when i said "..offer me another task", i meant military duty that does not pertain to the OT
19:33 ninereasons '%hash.perl' in that case was '((\'factor\' => (\'a\', \'b\', \'c\')), (\'timers\' => (1, 2, 3)))'
19:33 ninereasons from my @z = (['timers',1..3],['factor','a'.. 'c']) ;
19:34 jabbot pugs - 1817 - * anonymous hash literals.
19:34 autrijus ninereasons: that's a different matter
19:35 autrijus {} wasn't acting as anonsub
19:35 autrijus I mean anonhash
19:35 autrijus it's acting as a simple closure
19:35 autrijus in a pre-IType pugs:
19:35 autrijus pugs> {1 => 2}.{1}
19:35 autrijus (pugs: cannot cast into [VPair]: VSub (Sub {isMulti
19:35 autrijus that's what would have happened
19:36 ninereasons i'm not sure that what I posted is correct perl6, anyway.
19:36 Corion Ah - BTW - I've long been wanting the "-g" and "-m" options in Perl. "-g" is mostly -e "while ( $_ = =<> ) { say if (" ... -e "); };" and -m is -e "while ( $_ = =<> ) { say (" ... -e "); };". Does anybody use the -m switch at all?
19:36 autrijus I think it is.
19:36 Corion (-g for "grep" and -m for "map", obviously)
19:37 Khisanth g and m would make things very confusing
19:37 Corion and -g '$ARGV:' should become 'say "$ARGV:$_"'
19:37 Corion Khisanth: In what sense confusing?
19:37 autrijus Corion: I have threatened for a couple years now to re-upload pmake to CPAN as "ake.pm".
19:38 autrijus perl -make test
19:38 autrijus perl -make install
19:38 Corion autrijus: :-)) Just like Tye McQueens ouse.pm , which you invoke as "perl -Mouse"
19:38 Corion autrijus: :))
19:38 autrijus but in this case, I use small -m :)
19:38 Khisanth Corion: nvm, misunderstood what you were refering to
19:38 Corion autrijus: I see... You could live with "-Make", but "-make" is nicer... I could settle for -G , but I'd prefer -m for "map"...
19:39 bradb has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:39 autrijus in any case, that's p6l domain :)
19:39 Corion ... and having (Unicode!) grep and map is nice IMO.
19:39 autrijus (you can of course implement it now if you'd like)
19:39 Corion autrijus: I had originally planned that as an (semi serious) April Fools joke post to p5p :)
19:39 Khisanth autrijus: perl -Make would still work in that case wouldn't it?
19:39 gaal autrijus, it doesn't work for me? ./pugs.exe -e 'say {1,2}.{1}'
19:39 gaal <SubBlock(<anon>)>
19:39 gaal otoh, this does work: ./pugs.exe -e 'say [1,2].[1]'   ==> 2
19:39 autrijus Khisanth: yes, but wouldn't be as nice.
19:40 Corion autrijus: Yeah - I think I'll implement it, and see if it'll be taken out or not. And patch it in again! SVN commit fight! :)
19:40 autrijus gaal: r1817?
19:40 autrijus heh. I'm glad we don't have revert wars
19:40 webmind_ has joined #perl6
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19:41 Corion autrijus: Well - the community is still fresh, and quick yelling on irc is better than prolonged flamewars on p6*
19:41 gaal yes
19:42 Corion ... and people here get into contact easier, and maybe even have met.
19:42 Corion (mostly due to Autrijus World Tour 2004/2005)
19:42 * shapr buys tickets for the 2006 tour
19:43 gaal Corion: you could write a test that, when it fails, patches the tree and svn ups.
19:43 gaal incidentally {1,2}.{1}.say prints nothing
19:43 Corion gaal: I was considering writing a bot that watches the openfoundry RSS :)
19:43 * Corion does automation for a living.
19:43 gaal well, prints a newline
19:44 xkb_ has quit IRC (No route to host)
19:44 Corion Hmmm. Maybe we should make the setEnv less fatal, so it can be caught with a try{} block (as before). Is it too late to make Pugs / Haskell patches?
19:45 autrijus it is never too late.
19:45 autrijus there is no code freeze in pugs development. :)
19:45 elmex not?
19:45 Corion autrijus: Yeah, but I don't want to make an unclean patch when everybody is in preflight :)
19:45 gaal yay! hanzi finally started appearing in my terminal!
19:45 autrijus Corion: go ahead and commit it in.
19:45 elmex i thought we could freeze now and go on implementing perl6 in perl6 ;) *G*
19:45 autrijus we have a VCS.
19:45 Corion autrijus: :)
19:46 autrijus elmex: we can't. maybe you can. pugs is certainly turing complete ;)
19:46 autrijus so go ahead if you'd like.
19:46 elmex autrijus: ;)
19:46 dvergin__ has joined #perl6
19:46 elmex autrijus: i'm not a compiler specialist
19:47 elmex even thought i wrote a topdown parser generator some weeks ago
19:47 shapr me neither!
19:47 Corion Oh. And in the future, I'd like an introspective list of compilers, if that's possible/sensible to want, so I can reduce the code in my compiler test :)
19:47 elmex (in perl)
19:47 autrijus journal up. my fingers are tired. I should probably sleep. :)
19:47 * autrijus waves &
19:48 shapr g'night autrijus
19:49 Alias_ has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
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19:50 metaperl has joined #perl6
19:55 * gaal zzz also. bye!
19:56 ninereasons night gaal (<- note the correct spelling)
19:57 gaal thanks, ninereasons :)
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20:24 mj41 pugs -e "say @ARGS[0]" args_no_argv
20:24 mj41 pugs -e "return 1;"
20:24 mj41 cannot return() outside a subroutine
20:24 mj41 Val (VList [VInt 1])
20:24 mj41 Is this ok?
20:26 ninereasons pugs -e "my &a = sub {return 1}; say a"
20:27 mj41 my $conf = require 'conf.p6';
20:27 mj41 # conf.p6
20:27 mj41 return {
20:27 mj41 path => '.',
20:27 mj41 };
20:27 bradb has joined #perl6
20:28 mj41 { path => '.', }; # is ok
20:28 rgs has quit IRC ("off")
20:34 ninereasons r1817; oops - build now broken unless hs-plugins are installed
20:37 Corion back from phone :)
20:37 ninereasons does anyone else have freebsd 4.x ?  I've failed to figure out this hs-plugins install problem.
20:37 Corion ninereasons: worksforme
20:37 theorbtwo Hm, and cognominal broke the AUTHORS convention.
20:37 Corion (Win2k, no plugins that I know of)
20:37 ninereasons on freebsd?
20:38 Corion ninereasons: No, no freebsd
20:38 ninereasons oh i see what you mean.
20:38 Corion Don't you know - *BSD is dying
20:38 Corion :)))
20:38 ninereasons I'm covering all my bets, Corion
20:38 * shapr covers all his bets with one finger.
20:38 ninereasons I'm on Win32, using freebsd over ssh, via linux via cygwin xwindows
20:38 * stevan wonders if Corion really has three mouths or not
20:39 Corion Bah. I'm ditching the setEnv patches for Win32 and will just disable the test.
20:39 Corion (as it's too late/I'm too tired to figure out how to make the Haskell failWith() in Compat.hs work like die() in Perl)
20:40 Corion stevan: No no - you're thinking of the Beast Of A Thousand Young. I'm more like Cthulhu
20:40 ninereasons r1817 builds for you, Corion; without plugins installed?
20:41 jhorwitz has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.2/20050317]")
20:41 Corion ninereasons: I think I don't have any plugins. I'm using the plain GHC 6.4 Win32 install
20:41 Corion But I wouldn't know how to check if I have hs-plugins
20:41 ninereasons ?? (maybe BSD really is dying :(
20:42 stevan ninereasons: doubt it is dying (it is the base of Darwin and some ISPs love it)
20:42 ninereasons look for the make option -DPUGS_HAVE_HSPLUGINS=1
20:43 theorbtwo Corion: ghc-pkg describe plugins.
20:43 theorbtwo Or what ninereasions said.
20:43 Corion "cannot find package plugins"
20:43 theorbtwo In what way is it killing the build?
20:43 ninereasons Chasing modules from: src/Main.hs
20:43 ninereasons Could not find module `Plugins':
20:43 jabbot pugs - 1819 - More sanity in External.Haskell.  Things
20:43 jabbot pugs - 1818 - fixed t/builtins/string/lc.t; and more f
20:44 ninereasons ah ..
20:44 ninereasons interesting.
20:44 ninereasons -DPUGS_HAVE_HSPLUGINS=1  is in the build, without plugins installed
20:44 * Aankhen`` goes to sleep.
20:45 Aankhen`` Nite.
20:45 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("I've been trying for some time to develop a lifestyle that doesn't require my presence. [Time wasted online: 9hrs 30mins 18se")
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20:46 Corion theorbtwo: You mentioned System.Win32 - how would I install that module/package in Haskell ? (And where should I find it?)
20:46 theorbtwo ninereasons: ghc-pkg describe plugins ?
20:47 theorbtwo Corion: autrijus mentioned that, not me.
20:47 ninereasons ghc-pkg: cannot find package plugins
20:47 Corion theorbtwo: Ah. It's too late and I'm confusing people already :(
20:47 ninereasons I'll manually alter the Makefile, and see if that works
20:47 Corion Good night then ;) My idea of making setEnv work will have to wait... I'll just skip() the %*ENV tests on Win32
20:48 stevan anybody want to take a look at t/builtins/strings/length.t  
20:48 stevan it is only showing 6 test for me
20:48 stevan but there should be 15
20:49 stevan oh wait
20:49 stevan I see it now
20:49 Khisanth the for?
20:49 stevan yeah
20:49 stevan it was assuming the older flattening behavior
20:50 stevan ok much better now :)
20:50 theorbtwo ninereasons: Try ghc-pkg describe plugins && echo "Yes"
20:50 ninereasons ghc-pkg: cannot find package plugins
20:51 theorbtwo Now try ghc-pkg describe base
20:51 theorbtwo Er, && echo "Yes"
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20:51 ninereasons name: base
20:51 ninereasons version: 1.0
20:51 ninereasons .. YES
20:52 theorbtwo Hm.
20:52 theorbtwo No clue, sorry.
20:52 ninereasons it's alright - it was educational :)
20:52 shapr what's the problem?
20:53 ninereasons my build is showing that I have plugins, when I don't
20:53 ninereasons -DPUGS_HAVE_HSPLUGINS=1
20:53 shapr are you using ghc6.4 ?
20:53 ninereasons ghc-pkg: cannot find package plugins
20:53 ninereasons Glasgow Haskell Compiler, Version 6.4, for Haskell 98, compiled by GHC version 6.4
20:54 shapr what about "ghc-pkg -l|grep plugins" ?
20:54 ninereasons null
20:54 ninereasons ghc-pkg -l|grep plugins || echo "NOPE"
20:54 ninereasons NOPE
20:54 shapr well, you definitely don't have hs-plugins then.
20:57 theorbtwo shapr: Read inc/Pugs/MakeMaker.pm, have_ghc_package, near the bottom.
20:57 * kungfuftr still waits for his compiles to finish
20:58 elmex has quit IRC ("bis denn")
20:59 ninereasons if kungfufter's build completes, it's probably not OS relate (freebsd 4.11)
20:59 ninereasons my problems, that is
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21:01 kungfuftr ninereasons: ah... my smoke is still working... getting my laptop to a usable state
21:02 stevan kungfuftr: my tests were stalling on the t/examples/golf tests ,.. just FYI
21:03 kungfuftr stevan: http://kungfuftr.com/pugs-smoke.html
21:04 stevan kungfuftr: nevermind then  :)
21:04 stevan wow what happened with the builtins?
21:05 kungfuftr no idea... that only builds every hour
21:05 stevan strange
21:05 * kungfuftr checks stuff
21:06 stevan theorbtwo: Profit?
21:06 theorbtwo It's a South Park / Slashdot reference.
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21:07 stevan theorbtwo: You Bastard!
21:07 cognominal theorbtwo: oops. what should U do to correct my mistake
21:08 kungfuftr stevan: 2 runs seem to have run into each other
21:08 stevan kungfuftr: are you doing 'make clean'?
21:08 stevan that was not working right for a little while
21:09 stevan (leaving Makefile around and such)
21:09 cognominal hum, I guess that must be ASCII only for the rist field
21:10 theorbtwo Right.  And utf8, not latin1, for the last field.
21:10 Ovid has joined #perl6
21:10 shapr bonjour Ovid
21:10 stevan Ovid!!
21:10 Ovid Salut!
21:10 stevan Ovid: the ITypes refactor is (mostly) complete
21:11 stevan so give your HTML::Entities a try
21:11 Ovid So, if Pugs completely borked right now?  I can't even compile.  Something about "Could not find module 'Plugins'"
21:11 kungfuftr stevan: running it manually from scratch now
21:11 stevan Ovid: blame theorbtwo :)
21:11 stevan kungfuftr: excellent
21:11 Ovid OK, I blame him.  Still doesn't get me a compile, though.
21:12 stevan Ovid: those are hs-plugins, they are needed for using Haskell libraries in perl6
21:12 stevan theorbtwo: isnt there a flag Ovid can switch off?
21:12 * stevan looks for the hs-plugins URL too
21:12 ninereasons we used to have a check builtinswitched off the flag automatically
21:13 ninereasons it doesn't seem to be working, right now
21:13 stevan Ovid: grab this ftp://ftp.cse.unsw.edu.au/pub/users/dons/hs-plugins/snapshots/
21:13 theorbtwo What's the third char of your name, cognominal?
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21:15 Ovid OK, I see the plugins.  What do I do with 'em?
21:15 stevan install 'em
21:15 Ovid ?  All?
21:16 stevan wait lemme look
21:16 ninereasons autoconfig && ./configure && make
21:16 cognominal theorbtwo: e acute
21:16 Ovid ninereasons: was that directed at me or someone else?
21:16 stevan Ovid: grab the latest one
21:16 ninereasons piped to you, Ovid
21:16 ninereasons it was given to me as instructions
21:16 cognominal ...stéphane
21:17 stevan 2050412
21:17 ninereasons (but I haven't been able to build plugins on freebsd, so far)
21:17 stevan (damn australians livin in the future)
21:18 stevan Ovid: then follow ninereasons instructions re: autoconfig, etc.
21:18 Ovid ok
21:18 stevan then make sure to 'make install' and then 'make register'
21:18 ninereasons Ovid, then make install and make register
21:18 theorbtwo OK, authors file fixed.
21:18 ninereasons oops
21:18 metaperl has joined #perl6
21:18 stevan as for what it is these things are actully doing,.. I will refer you too theorbtwo
21:19 stevan hey metaperl
21:19 * theorbtwo sighs.
21:19 theorbtwo Something you wrote breaks the build, and people are all over you like it's your fault.
21:19 Ovid No.  The instructions say I need to start with ./configure, but there's no such file.
21:19 kungfuftr bah, no building... missing pugins (hehe)
21:19 ninereasons autoconf
21:19 stevan autoconf makes one
21:20 ninereasons are you using linux, Ovid ?
21:20 theorbtwo ./autogen.sh
21:20 kungfuftr huh?
21:20 Ovid Mac OS X
21:20 stevan Ovid: I had the same issue,.. (damn Australian Haskell programmers cant write instructions worth a damn.,.. *grumble* *grumble*)
21:20 ninereasons autogen.sh makes  me smile :)
21:20 Ovid :(
21:21 Ovid Oh well.  I gotta get back to work.  I'll deal with this later.
21:21 shapr autoreconf && ./configure && make
21:21 shapr then as root, make install && make register
21:22 Ovid OK, trying now.
21:22 * Ovid appreciates the help.
21:22 shapr if it's Haskelly stuff, feel free to poke me
21:22 kungfuftr how comes plugins is not optional?
21:22 theorbtwo shapr: It is.
21:22 stevan shapr++ # the lone voice of sanity ...
21:22 theorbtwo kungfuftr: It's supposed to be.
21:22 Ovid Thanks.  How long have you been doing Haskell?
21:23 shapr as long as the #haskell channel has existed
21:23 shapr Registered: 3 years 49 weeks 6 days (23h 0m 11s) ago
21:23 Ovid Damn!
21:23 castaway It is optional, just the checker seems to not always work.. go fix it ,)
21:23 shapr My fiancee got me two books and I started learning.
21:23 kungfuftr Could not find module `Plugins':
21:23 kungfuftr  use -v to see a list of the files searched for
21:23 kungfuftr  (imported from src/External/Haskell.hs)
21:23 kungfuftr *** Error code 1
21:23 jabbot pugs - 1820 - Fix AUTHORS file.
21:23 kungfuftr (soz)
21:23 * ninereasons doesn't like the sound of the "Damn!"
21:24 Ovid My only experience with a Haskell programmer was someone who sneered at me because I use Perl.  I should email him a link to pugs!
21:24 shapr I'm self-employed, so I didn't exactly learn quickly, but I did have fun.
21:24 castaway works for me:
21:24 castaway /usr/bin/perl5.8.6 -Iinc Makefile.PL
21:24 castaway *** Inline Haskell support disabled.  If you want dynamic loading
21:24 castaway    of haskell modules, please install the hs-plugins library,
21:24 castaway        ftp://ftp.cse.unsw.edu.au/pub/users/dons/hs-plugins/snapshots/ ,
21:24 castaway    dated 2005-04-10 or later -- remember to "make register" too!
21:24 Ovid Actually, the "damn!" was a good thing.
21:24 shapr Ovid: would that be someone on extremeperl? I surely hope not =)
21:24 Ovid No.  An ex-girlfriend's brother.
21:24 kungfuftr *blink* works now
21:24 ninereasons oh a "Damn" of appreciation
21:24 ninereasons not of frustration :)
21:24 kungfuftr no it don't... bellecks
21:24 metaperl oh Ovid, you know galois.com is in Oregon don't you?
21:24 shapr The more I learn about programming, the more I realize it's all the same, there's no reason to fight.
21:25 Ovid I was referring to Gauloise cigarettes.
21:25 metaperl they are a haskell shop
21:25 castaway plenty of reason, just none of it useful ,)
21:25 stevan shapr: thems fightin words boy!
21:25 Ovid Curious.
21:25 shapr stevan: haha
21:25 shapr it's true though, I've realized there's not a huge difference between monads and OOP
21:25 PerlJam shapr: there are bunches of Perl/PHP/Python/etc. fanatics that need to learn that lesson.
21:25 metaperl i didnt see your coment regarding cigarettes. I was just telling you about a haskell shop in oregon
21:25 shapr Though the difference is enough that I'd rather use monads.
21:25 PerlJam (about no fighting that is)
21:26 shapr Ovid: tried Gitanes?
21:26 kungfuftr theorbtwo: it may be optional, but it may still require it to be there to check stuff... etc.
21:26 kungfuftr =0)
21:26 Corion has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:26 kungfuftr ah... 2 secs
21:26 Ovid Oh!  I thought you were referring to http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=446761.  It's a post I made today and I referred to Gauloise cigarettes.  Curiously, it's about the disagreements on the extremeperl list.
21:27 shapr oh my
21:27 Ovid shapr:  no, I haven't.  However, I quite smoking about half a year ago.
21:27 Ovid Hey, it looks like Pugs is compiling now :)
21:27 Ovid s/quite/quit/
21:27 kungfuftr nope
21:27 shapr after my private email exchanges with Rob, I have discovered he's defending his position rather than looking for answers.
21:27 kungfuftr =0/
21:28 shapr kungfuftr: you have plugins problems?
21:28 kungfuftr yup
21:28 Ovid You know, I really can't blame Rob.  I've been there (I'm still there at times.  It's tough to let go of pride)
21:28 * ninereasons is so glad not to be alone in his problems anymore
21:28 kungfuftr freebsd 4.11
21:28 shapr I'm still there at times too, but I have friends who tell me to "get the fuck over it" and I'm smart enough to listen.
21:28 ninereasons same here
21:29 Ovid :)
21:29 shapr kungfuftr: dons developers on bsd, so I'd be surprised if plugins don't work on one of the flavors.
21:29 theorbtwo So: Is the no-plugins case still broken for anybody, or did it mysteriously fix itself?
21:29 Ovid Me, I just learn to have friends who are smarter than I am.  It makes me listed more.
21:29 shapr But also dons should be awake in an hour or so, and you can ask him then.
21:29 shapr Ovid: yeah, that's one thing I like about #haskell
21:30 kungfuftr shapr: i have no plugins... it just won't build, though is supposed to be optional
21:30 ninereasons still broken for me, theorbtwo and for kungfuftr
21:30 ninereasons Ovid has a problem too, theorbtwo , but know the details
21:30 ninereasons don't know ..
21:30 shapr I don't even try to be prideful on #haskell, there's nothing like getting squished by a 15 year old who knows twice as much as I do about type theory.
21:30 Ovid Mine is fix.
21:31 ninereasons one down, then. theorbtwo
21:33 mj41 use v6;
21:33 mj41 my $conf;
21:33 mj41 $conf = { 'a' => 1 };
21:33 mj41 say $conf.keys.[0];
21:33 mj41 my $conf2 = { 'a' => 1 };
21:33 mj41 say $conf2.keys.[0];
21:33 mj41 # will print 0 a
21:33 jabbot pugs - 1821 - More debugging for plugins problem.
21:34 kungfuftr ninereasons: try uncommenting line 193 of Module::Install::Pugs
21:34 theorbtwo ninereasons, kungfuftr, anybody else, try svn up and re-running.
21:34 * castaway goes to bed
21:34 kungfuftr pugs is building directly after removing that comment
21:35 shapr The smartest people seem to have very little pride, I guess they realize how much there is left to learn.
21:35 theorbtwo I'd prefer to leave the waitpid call commented out; it reportedly causes infinite runs...
21:35 theorbtwo Ah, damn.
21:35 PerlJam mj41: surely that's an old pugs you've got?
21:35 theorbtwo It reportedly causes infinite runs for some win32s.
21:35 mj41 r1819 winXP
21:36 metaperl_ has joined #perl6
21:36 stevan shapr: that may be because prideful smart people tend to say dumb things when their pride gets in the way (hence lowering their status)
21:36 shapr interesting thought
21:36 shapr that would make sense
21:36 kungfuftr theorbtwo: do it based on OS
21:37 stevan shapr: I meet many a really really smart person in my dot.com days who's ego made them seem like a complete idiot
21:37 kungfuftr ninereasons: any luck?
21:38 ninereasons i tried svn up first, kungfuftr - that failed
21:38 ninereasons trying your suggestion
21:38 * stevan finds un-TODO-ing passing test highly satisfying
21:38 mj41 my $conf;
21:38 mj41 $conf = { 'a' => 1 };
21:38 mj41 say ~$conf.kv;
21:38 mj41 # prints: 0 a 1
21:38 theorbtwo ninereasons: What did it print when it failed?
21:38 PerlJam mj41: Hrm.  
21:38 PerlJam mj41: oh!  *my* pugs is an older one.
21:39 ninereasons do you really mean the line with '1;' on it, kungfuftr ? (no comment there)
21:39 PerlJam anyway, the whole variable initialization thing has been problematic for a while and no one with the right tuits + knowledge has been able to fix it yet.
21:40 ninereasons stille "Could not find module `Plugins':" theorbtwo
21:40 theorbtwo What?
21:40 theorbtwo What prints when you do a Makefile.PL run?
21:41 ninereasons first line: 'ghc-pkg', 'describe', plugins at inc/Module/Install/Pugs.pm line 176.
21:41 kungfuftr ninereasons: inc/Module/Install/Pugs.pm - 193
21:41 theorbtwo ninereasons: Yes, keep going, please.
21:41 kungfuftr ninereasons: is a call to waitpid
21:42 ninereasons 63638 at inc/Module/Install/Pugs.pm line 178.
21:42 ninereasons 63638 finished: 0x0 at inc/Module/Install/Pugs.pm line 180.
21:42 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
21:42 ninereasons then, writing Makefile for ...
21:43 ninereasons weird, kungfuftr ; my line 193 is simply "1;"
21:43 kungfuftr ninereasons: up to dat copy?
21:44 ninereasons svn stat shows no alterations to working copy
21:44 ninereasons and up to 1821
21:44 kungfuftr ninereasons: look for "#waitpid"
21:44 ninereasons maybe I out to wipe out the working copy and check out again ?
21:44 Ovid Anyone else experiencing the tests hanging on t/examples/golf.............................ok 1/10?
21:45 stevan Ovid: I had that happen too
21:45 Maddingue has joined #perl6
21:45 ninereasons found it on line 179, kungfuftr ; it looks like ...
21:45 Ovid Hmm ... I still don't feel comfortable installing this yet :(
21:45 ninereasons yes .. it looks like ...
21:46 ninereasons it's working.  thanks kungfuftr
21:46 kungfuftr mwuahahah
21:46 ninereasons strange about the line number difference.
21:47 kungfuftr *shrug*
21:47 ninereasons *shrug*
21:48 stevan Ovid: r1822 - I skipped the golf test
21:49 Ovid Thanks.  Trying again.
21:49 kungfuftr theorbtwo: looks like the waitpid needs to be there for bsd
21:50 ninereasons a different problem in Ovid's case though.  I think his problem went away when he got plugins to go in successfully.
21:51 ninereasons (don't know his OS)
21:51 Ovid That's correct.
21:51 Ovid Mac OS X
21:51 ninereasons interesting
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21:52 kungfuftr memory leak in golf?
21:52 kungfuftr t/examples/golf.t
21:52 kungfuftr pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
21:53 stevan kungfuftr: when I interupted it,.. I found the process was still going in the background
21:53 stevan svn up though,.. i skipped it
21:54 kungfuftr ah... k
21:56 * theorbtwo tries one more checkin, sighs, declares it bed.
21:59 theorbtwo the the finished: foo line does not give 0x100 if you don't have it, or 0x0 if you do, then something odd is going on.
21:59 theorbtwo s:1st/the/if/
22:00 bigblue99 has joined #perl6
22:03 jabbot pugs - 1823 - One more try.
22:03 jabbot pugs - 1822 - more test cleaning and force-TODO-ing
22:12 bigblue99 has quit IRC ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
22:15 ninereasons that is interesting, mj41. " $conf = { 'a' => 1 };  
22:15 ninereasons $conf[0].kv;
22:15 ninereasons ('a', 1)
22:15 ninereasons $conf.perl;
22:15 ninereasons '((\'a\' => 1))'
22:16 ninereasons $conf.kv
22:16 ninereasons (0, ('a' => 1))
22:21 wilx has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:23 jabbot pugs - 1824 - More progress filling out S28draft.pod
22:24 * dvergin__ always loves hearing from jabbot.
22:24 Ovid I still think there are serious problems here.  I am now hanging on "t/subroutines/subroutine....................NOK 13"
22:27 Ovid Don't make me learn Haskell and fix these damned things!
22:27 Ovid (just kidding)
22:28 * shapr tokes on a lambda
22:28 shapr the first one comes free man
22:28 kungfuftr shapr: that's right... get him hooked!
22:28 * Ovid muses trading Prolog lessons for Haskell lessons.
22:29 * shapr grins
22:29 shapr I give Haskell lessons for free.
22:30 shapr Deceptively free... I think open source is resource competitive, and the resources are the minds of the developers.
22:35 mj41 has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:37 Juerd Hey, Ovid!
22:37 Juerd We're online at the same time. That's special.
22:38 Ovid Hi Juerd.
22:38 Juerd Do you grok my explanation of the := swap thing?
22:39 Ovid Yes, but I still think it will confuse programmers.  Several folks here were confused by ($x,$y) := ($y,$x) and there was disagreement over what it meant.
22:40 mdiep has left
22:40 Juerd (Though it only makes sense in the sane world where references are references, and names, containers and values are separated from eachother, and from where Larry left a month or so ago)
22:40 Juerd Ovid: It's no more confusing than with s/=/:=/
22:40 Juerd Ovid: It does the same thing, but swapping the variable names while keeping the values in place, instead of exactly the other way around: swapping the values while keeping the variables (and their names) in place
22:41 Juerd The larger the value (possibly megabytes in size), the greater the benefit.
22:42 Ovid Well, aliasing and binding is good in the general sense, but trying to swap with aliases suggests to me that variables were incorrectly used (or named) in the first place.
22:42 Juerd swapping with = is like working with cp on the command line
22:42 Juerd := is mv.
22:42 liyuray has joined #perl6
22:42 Juerd Ovid: They were either incorrectly used/named or equivalent in meaning in either case
22:43 Juerd The end result, in the language, as seen by the programmer, is exactly the same.
22:43 Juerd This is why this example is generally done with $x and $y, or $foo and $bar and never with meaningful names, because this thing just doesn't happen much in practice.
22:44 Ovid Hopefully this won't cause a problem.  I'll worry later as "idiomatic Perl 6" starts to evolve.
22:44 Ovid :)
22:44 Juerd I think := is a big and important thing.
22:45 Juerd It's a key element to performance - something really missing in Perl 5. It's only available implicitly.
22:45 Juerd Re idioms: many will go away, because all the often used idioms are going to be part of the language itself
22:46 Juerd We lose the ST because sort itself now caches
22:46 Juerd The selectselect idiom is gone because, well, $/ is gone :)
22:46 Juerd (And $\, $|, etc)
22:46 Juerd slurp does away with @ARGV = $fn; <>
22:47 Ovid Oh, don't get me wrong.  I agree that := is really important.  I just am concerned about an odd little corner case with it where reasonable programmers have had different expectations.
22:47 Ovid Unreasonable programmers may be even worse.
22:47 Juerd I think explaining them both is a good way to demonstrate how := differs from =
22:48 Juerd They both swap, only the thing that's swapped is different.
22:48 Juerd I think the swap case can more clearly explain the difference than normal assignment with many print statements to show what's happening.
22:48 Juerd When explained right, at which I certainly failed :)
22:51 liyuray has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
22:57 kungfuftr Ovid: t/subroutines/subroutine.t is hanging for me too
23:02 Ovid Bummer.
23:02 Ovid Yeah, I've run it twice.  This is probably a similar problem to the examples/japh that stevan skipped.  There's something serious there :(
23:10 Juerd           Note that many drivers have no way of knowing what data sources might be available for it. These drivers return
23:10 Juerd           an empty or incomplete list or may require driver-specific attributes.
23:10 Juerd Sorry, wrong window.
23:10 Juerd           There is also a data_sources() method defined for database handles.
23:11 * shapr grabs the handle of a nearby database
23:14 jabbot pugs - 1825 - skipping tests in subroutine.t
23:14 stevan Ovid: subroutine hang is fixed
23:15 stevan this was a parsefail which was recently uncommented
23:15 kungfuftr stevan: beat me to it... dammit
23:15 Ovid OK.  Updating now.
23:15 stevan so not something terribly serious I think
23:15 stevan kungfuftr: beware my svn fu !!!!!!
23:16 * stevan is dreading the Changelog duty given the number of commits today
23:17 * shapr consiers making stevan's life harder.
23:18 stevan shapr: go ahead, make my day ;| # <<< clint eastwood squint
23:18 * shapr grins
23:18 * kungfuftr makes lots of one character changes to files
23:24 Juerd Oh, the changelog loves that.
23:25 stevan hmmm,... bug or correct
23:25 stevan my @array3 = (@array1, @array2); say +@array3 # prints 2
23:26 stevan ./pugs -e 'my @array1; my @array2; my @array3 = (@array1, @array2); say +@array3'
23:26 stevan shouldn't that flatten @array1 and @array2?
23:33 Juerd It should, as the RHS of ARRAY = should be in list context
23:34 Juerd Not list-of-scalar-contexts :)
23:34 stevan Juerd: I assume that this: my @array5 = ( @array2[2, 1, 0], @array1[2, 1, 0] );
23:34 stevan is the same thing then
23:34 Juerd That's only for sub arguments and binding, except when slurpy...
23:34 Juerd Same thing as what?
23:35 stevan it should flatten as well since the slices would return arrays
23:35 Juerd +@array5 should be 6, and not grep defined, @array5
23:36 Juerd Slices return lists
23:36 Juerd Not arrays
23:36 * Juerd zzz
23:36 Juerd Good night
23:36 stevan thanks Juerd
23:53 jabbot pugs - 1827 - force-TODO-ing and test cleanup
23:53 jabbot pugs - 1826 - force-TODO-ing and test cleanup
23:59 Ovid Only 190/4236 subtests failed :)

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