Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-04-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Ovid Crap.  My HTML::Entities still fails.
00:03 oylenshpeegul has joined #perl6
00:16 stevan Ovid many of those are force TODO so they dont really pass
00:16 stevan the tests are a few weeks (even months in some places) ahead of development
00:17 Ovid Makes sense.  I still wish I could figure out why HTML::Entities fails, though.  When I have time, I'll try to produce a minimal test case for checking somewhere.
00:19 stevan Ovid: After I finish all the test stuff and changelog I will take a look (assuming I dont just pass out)
00:19 Ovid Heh :)
00:19 Ovid I wish I could get away with that.  Unfortunately, work beckons.
00:19 Ovid Good work, though, so I can't complain.
00:20 stevan I am in between projects,.. so I got tuits
00:20 Ovid Wow.  It's really pouring down outside.  I love it!
00:20 stevan but soon my next project starts to my commit level will go down
00:22 Ovid Well, I want to devote my weekends to this, but the guy who's working on the new parser for AI::Prolog thinks he might have it done soon, so I'll need to get that polished.
00:23 stevan BTW - very cool stuff with that AI::Prolog
00:24 stevan I have always been a fan of Prolog
00:24 Ovid Thank you.  After I get it a bit more stable, I want to port it Parrot.
00:24 stevan and Erlang, which looks a lot like Prolog and whose first prototype was actually in prolog
00:24 stevan Ovid: that would be very cool
00:24 Ovid I would prefer to do a Warren Abstract Machine, but I don't know them very well.  A first pass with an engine I know would be better.
00:24 stevan I have high hopes for Parrot,.. it is all the potential I saw in the JVM but which never happened
00:25 Ovid Actually, I'd be rather interested in Mercury.  I've heard good things about it.
00:25 stevan I have read a bit about WAMs, but that goes over my head pretty quickly
00:25 stevan I think I have heard of that
00:25 stevan you know shapr is a language fetishist too
00:25 stevan he sent me a few links to some really weird stuff
00:26 stevan not Brainf*ck weird either,.. PhD thesis weird
00:26 Ovid Have you read http://www.vanx.org/archive/wam/wam.html?  It's  a tutorial reconstruction of the WAM.  It makes more sense, though, if you're familiar with Prolog and how it's backtracking works (understanding choicepoints and all that)
00:27 * stevan follows the link
00:27 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
00:28 mugwump Oz is based on a WAM AIUI
00:28 stevan hmm, these are the kind of PDFs which make me miss access to corporate laser printers
00:29 Ovid Really?
00:29 Ovid (I mean about Oz)
00:29 mugwump so buy one second hand, they're throwing them away these days
00:29 stevan mugwump: not a bad idea actually :)
00:31 mugwump I was tempted by a ~$400 new colour HP laser with JetDirect
00:32 crysflame mmm, neat
00:32 crysflame you'll bleed toner bills for life
00:32 mugwump Then I remembered that HP is an ink company that sells PCs and servers on the side
00:32 mugwump :)
01:13 jabbot pugs - 1829 - First pass at cookbook entry for interpo
01:13 jabbot pugs - 1828 - First pass at reversing chars and words
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01:23 jabbot pugs - 1830 - First pass at cookbook entry for indenti
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01:33 hlen maybe they should create a perl6 section in perlmonks
01:33 jabbot pugs - 1831 - more force-TODO and test cleanup
01:33 mugwump dear god no!
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01:43 jabbot pugs - 1832 - First pass at cookbook entry for trimmin
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01:51 buu Is there anyway to use the current pugs to limit execution time and such?
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02:45 ninereasons maybe I should understand your question, buu; but I don't
02:46 buu I wish to embed a language
02:46 buu I'd love to embed perl6
02:46 buu But I need to control how long the program executes, system calls, memory, etc
02:47 ninereasons hm.. i might be mistaken, buu; but I don't think that there is a way to do that yet.
02:48 ninereasons you might look through the test suite though, and see if the features you need are being tested, and are succeeding.
02:48 buu =[
02:49 buu I don't think this is part of the test suite
02:50 ninereasons should it be, do you think?
02:50 buu er
02:50 buu Obviously *I* think it should be, but I'm not sure anyone else does
02:51 ninereasons I'm not sure that what anybody else thinks really matters .  If you're able to write appropriate tests, then it seems to me that you should do so.
02:51 buu Er
02:51 buu I don't think the features I want are even planned, how would I write tests for them?
02:52 ninereasons you have a point there, if that's the case :)
02:52 buu I don't think anyone has contemplated it yet
02:53 buu It's more of an interpreter issue than a language issue
02:53 ninereasons good luck with it :)
02:53 buu ...
02:54 buu Thanks
03:00 autrijus hi lambdacamels
03:01 autrijus buu: what's your host language?
03:01 rafl has joined #perl6
03:01 buu autrijus: Probably perl
03:02 buu Or possibly pike
03:02 buu Or pathenthetically python!
03:02 buu Hell, I might do it in p6 if it's advanced enough yet
03:04 * buu pokes autrijus
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03:08 autrijus hrmph.
03:08 autrijus buu: your best bet is to help us working on pugscc --parrot
03:08 buu I demand you drop everything you're doing and solve my problem right now!
03:08 buu Er, what is pugscc?
03:08 autrijus then you get to use embed parrot for free
03:08 autrijus and just feed it IMC.
03:08 buu And can parrot do those tricks?
03:08 autrijus yes.
03:08 buu Really?!
03:08 buu Where is that documented
03:09 autrijus while GHC also can, embedding GHC is trickier.
03:09 buu How about pugs
03:09 autrijus pugs is just a compiler.
03:10 buu Er, what executes the compiled code?
03:10 autrijus you don't hear "embed gcc" that often :)
03:10 autrijus either GHC, or Parrot.
03:10 autrijus pugscc has different backends.
03:10 autrijus see mod_parrot for concrete example
03:10 buu Freaky.
03:11 autrijus author of mod_parrot says he'd be working on mod_pugs.
03:11 autrijus which seems to be exactly what you want.
03:11 autrijus http://www.parrotcode.org/docs/embed.html # embedding parrot
03:11 buu hrm
03:11 buu Sounds keen.
03:11 autrijus http://www.smashing.org/mod_parrot/ # mod_parrot
03:13 buu How far along is pugscc?
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03:17 mugwump mod_segfault
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03:18 autrijus buu: well it can compile mandelbrot :)
03:18 autrijus but needs more work.
03:20 buu heh
03:21 buu Well
03:21 buu I'm reading embed parrot and such, I don't really see how to do what I want
03:22 autrijus you want pdd18
03:22 autrijus # http://dev.perl.org/perl6/pdd/pdd18_security.html
03:22 autrijus also see dan's recent posts
03:24 buu Where?
03:26 autrijus good question. I can't find it anymore.
03:27 autrijus ask around? I know Dan is still continuing the design for quota
03:27 autrijus <- not really a parrot person
03:27 autrijus trying to be, but not quite there
03:27 stevan autrijus: hello
03:28 autrijus hi stevan!
03:28 stevan the tests have been cleaned
03:28 stevan although I see a few that need my attention
03:28 buu So eh, it's not implemented yet?
03:29 autrijus buu: I'm sure it's not implemented in full
03:29 autrijus I don't know which hooks are already in place.
03:29 buu hrm
03:32 autrijus stevan: I'm trying to kill the mutual recursion now
03:32 autrijus seems GHC goes bonkers over it
03:32 stevan autrijus: ok, I am cleaning a few more tests that showed up
03:33 stevan (I just did a fresh 'make' and 'make test'
03:33 autrijus cool. and I reasoned yesterday that the new binding code for slurpy array is likely to be broken
03:33 autrijus also normal scalar bindings may also be broken
03:33 autrijus it seemed to assume "is copy" by default
03:33 autrijus it's easy to fix, fortunately
03:33 autrijus so let me tackle this mut.rec. first
03:33 stevan ok
03:43 stevan is openfoundry down?
03:43 kakos has joined #perl6
03:44 autrijus no... dns however looks weird
03:46 autrijus please add this entry
03:46 autrijus 140.109.17.109          rt.openfoundry.org
03:46 autrijus I'm looking for fix
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03:53 ninereasons has quit IRC ("Leaving")
03:53 autrijus or rather
03:53 autrijus 140.109.17.109          rt.openfoundry.org svn.openfoundry.org
03:53 stevan I cant add DNS entries
03:53 stevan I have no access to that stuff actually
03:54 autrijus that's a real problem then
03:54 ninereasons has joined #perl6
03:54 stevan I am running another 'make test' to make sure I got everything
03:54 autrijus sec.
04:01 autrijus svn switch --relocate http://svn.openfoundry.org/ http://foundry.autrijus.org/
04:01 autrijus that should do.
04:03 stevan not working
04:03 autrijus what's the error msg?
04:03 stevan svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/'
04:03 stevan svn: PROPFIND of '/': 302 Found (http://foundry.autrijus.org)
04:08 autrijus svn switch --relocate http://svn.openfoundry.org/ http://pugs.autrijus.org/
04:08 autrijus this should now work.
04:08 stevan svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/pugs'
04:08 stevan svn: PROPFIND of '/pugs': Could not resolve hostname `pugs.autrijus.org': No address associated with nodename (http://pugs.autrijus.org)
04:09 stevan I can just send you patches
04:09 buu So sad.
04:11 autrijus try final time?
04:11 autrijus svn switch --relocate http://svn.openfoundry.org/ http://openfoundry.dyndns.org/
04:12 stevan worked :)
04:12 autrijus =) lunch &
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04:18 luqui what happened to svn.openfoundry.org?
04:18 stevan luqui: DNS issues
04:18 stevan try this:
04:18 stevan svn switch --relocate http://svn.openfoundry.org/ http://openfoundry.dyndns.org/
04:18 luqui cool
04:18 stevan :)
04:20 luqui it's been awhile... what have you guys done...
04:20 luqui er, should I say, what haven't you done :-)
04:20 stevan luqui: oh nothing
04:20 luqui got rules yet?
04:20 stevan the ChangeLog is fairly up to day
04:20 stevan rx:perl5 only
04:21 luqui awww
04:21 stevan limited too
04:21 buu Hmph
04:21 stevan we got CGI.pm :P
04:21 stevan sockets, threads
04:21 buu Any one have an idea how much of parrot-security has been implemented
04:21 Ovid We *sort of* got CGI.pm.
04:21 stevan nope, you could try asking on #parrot though
04:21 stevan Ovid is much pickier about his CGI than I am :)
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04:22 Khisanth is this CGI.pm better than the old one? :)
04:22 stevan Khisanth: could it be any worse :P
04:22 Khisanth stevan: YEeES
04:22 Khisanth things can always be worse
04:23 Alias_ Yeah, CGI could be even LARGER
04:23 stevan Khisanth: it is not OO, but I tried to be cleaner about things
04:23 stevan and Ovid is working on it now (which is a very good thing)
04:23 luqui I think once grammar munging is available, we'll very soon see PHPerl
04:23 Ovid It will be.  My thought is that, amongst other things, HTML generating functions will be handled separately and we won't have the odd mixing of sub calls and methods.
04:23 luqui (that is, inside-out perl)
04:23 Khisanth bleh
04:23 buu Ovid: That'd be nice.
04:23 stevan Alias_: I will make a special one /just/ for you :)
04:24 Alias_ oh joy
04:24 Ovid I've also been working on HTML::Entities, but for some reason, Pugs stops parsing my file partway through.  It doesn't throw any errors until I try to access the things that it failed to parse.
04:24 stevan Ovid: yes,.. no HTML,.. templates are much smarter anyway
04:24 Alias_ Can you port Matt Wright's Formail as well?
04:24 buu Where is #parrot?
04:24 Ovid Sure!  I can see how many of his security holes I can stuff into one script!
04:24 stevan Alias_: I thought you were starting the perl6-MSA effort :)
04:26 Ovid I should add that the current modules being implemented in ext/ are just to test Pugs.  At least for the stuff I've seen, I hope no one intends that they be considered "real".
04:27 stevan I think all of Pugs is still "use at your own risk" status :)
04:28 ingy hola kids
04:28 stevan hey ingy
04:28 luqui hi ingy
04:28 Ovid Hi ingy.
04:28 luqui buu: irc.perl.org
04:28 Ovid And hi luqui!
04:28 ingy hey luqui, nice to be seeing you in Toronto
04:29 ingy hi stevan, Ovid
04:29 luqui but not in portland :-(
04:29 ingy when?
04:29 Ovid You can't make it this time?  That's too bad :(
04:29 ingy ah, luqui is not going...
04:29 ingy I thought you meant I was not going
04:29 luqui yeah, didn't get a talk accepted
04:30 luqui Allison is trying to get me a vip pass, but haven't heard anything yet
04:30 * ingy thinks it is funny that she is the one giving the pugs talk
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04:31 ingy oh hell luqui, if that's all you need I wouldn't sweat it
04:31 buu has quit IRC ("Changing server")
04:31 Ovid You could always sign up as a volunteer.  Yeah, you miss a couple of sessions, but you still get in free.
04:31 ingy you're definitely high enough on the Perl food chain I would think
04:32 luqui :-)
04:32 luqui brb
04:32 Ovid stevan, you there?
04:32 stevan Ovid: yup
04:32 Ovid I'm reducing HTML::Entities to a minimal test case right now so we can figure out why it's not parsing properly.
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04:33 stevan make sure to try the latest build too
04:34 stevan almost all tests will now pass
04:34 Ovid Sure.  As soon as I can check it out :)
04:34 stevan Failed 6/203 test scripts, 97.04% okay. 44/4236 subtests failed, 98.96% okay. to be exact
04:34 Ovid I'm on 6.0.14
04:34 stevan svn switch --relocate http://svn.openfoundry.org/ http://openfoundry.dyndns.org/
04:35 Ovid Updating now!
04:36 luqui b
04:38 stevan wow,.. a lot of movement on the cookbook
04:38 stevan nice
04:38 luqui where are we doing this?
04:38 ingy luqui: no comments on S26 yet. have you heard any mumblings?
04:38 stevan luqui: doing what? the cookbook? examples/cookbook/*
04:39 luqui oh, yeah, I didn't read that.  I would have if Aaron did it, but I trusted you, so I was lazy about it
04:39 Ovid Well, I was whoring the cookbook out on Perlmonks.
04:39 ingy I guess I'll just have to arm wrestle Larry at the hackathon
04:39 luqui do we require that the cookbook examples run?
04:39 Ovid no
04:39 stevan luqui: nope (but it does help)
04:39 luqui I'll look it over one of these days
04:40 jabbot pugs - 1833 - even more test cleaning and force-TODO-i
04:40 jabbot pugs - 1834 - * add unicode include headers to avoid w
04:40 jabbot pugs - 1835 - * remove warnings from hsplugins probing
04:40 jabbot pugs - 1836 - More progress on S28draft.pod
04:40 jabbot pugs - 1837 - the last of the force-TODO and test clea
04:40 * ingy goes off to lift weights
04:40 stevan ingy: no CPAN drinking game?
04:40 luqui You should arm wrestle gloria
04:40 ingy stevan: niiice
04:40 ingy stevan: we played a CPAN drinking game in Taiwan
04:41 ingy autrijus won actually
04:41 stevan ingy: yes I have heard,.. although no one has detailed the rules of the game yet
04:41 ingy stevan: I'll fill you in when we next meet up
04:42 stevan ingy: sounds good
04:42 ingy hmm... Maybe I'll write it up as S27!!
04:42 ingy The Bible should definitely cover drinking
04:43 ingy did pugs get released this week?
04:43 stevan ingy: not yet,.. we are getting 6.2.0 ready right now
04:43 ingy maybe I'll get S27 in on time then
04:44 ingy but first I must dance!
04:44 ingy swing dancy dancy &
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04:49 Ovid stevan:  I have HTML::Entities down to an 8 line program that fails to parse properly.
04:49 stevan Ovid: paste it to me
04:49 stevan perlbot nopaste
04:49 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
04:49 Ovid Actually, just got it shorter.  Hold on.
04:49 jabbot pugs - 1838 - Add $string.chop and fix a string delim
04:51 pasteling "Ovid" at 66.167.139.35 pasted "minimal test case for HTML::Entities failure" (36 lines, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/9253
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04:52 stevan Ovid: bare returns like that dont work
04:53 luqui Do we have a place to put perl-in-perl implementations of perl builtins?
04:53 Ovid stevan:  doesn't matter.  Have 'em return anything, even "return 'foo'" and you'll get the same error.  However, if you delete that for loop, it finds the sub.
04:54 Ovid Something about the for loop is killing it.
04:54 luqui pugs -e 'sub foo () { say "bar" }  module Baz; foo()'  # prints 'bar'
04:55 luqui are namespaces implemented, or are they just a noop?
04:57 hoowa has left
04:58 stevan Ovid: I got it to compile
04:58 stevan pasting in one second
04:58 Ovid Yeah, it compiles fine, but the test fails saying it can't find the subroutine.
04:58 Ovid OK.
04:59 pasteling "stevan" at 67.186.136.119 pasted "HETest working" (43 lines, 798B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9254
05:02 Ovid stevan, I think I just found the problem.  $char_to_entity is never declared, but Pugs is silently ignoring this.
05:04 Ovid Er, there's a deeper problem.  I through that in my original HTML::Entities and I get the same error :-/
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05:09 teamjet i am really embarassed, looking for spoon-feeding here
05:09 teamjet perl 6 out yet?
05:09 Ovid No, not yet.  We're working on a prototype named pugs.
05:09 jabbot pugs - 1839 - some ChangeLog additions
05:10 teamjet thanks
05:10 Ovid No problem.
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05:16 luqui ack, how do I flatten an array in pugs!
05:16 luqui my $a = [1,2,3]; my @b = *@a;  say +@b;   # 1
05:16 luqui er, *$a
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05:17 Ovid Generally when I get stuck like that I grep through the tests to see if there's something compatible.
05:17 luqui doing that now
05:19 jabbot pugs - 1840 - Continuing work on S28draft.pod
05:23 hoowa has joined #perl6
05:24 Ovid Woo hoo!  I go the the test in HTML::Entities to pass.  Finally :)
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05:25 stevan ok,.. I am off to sleep
05:26 Ovid Night stevan.  Thanks for all of your help.
05:26 stevan autrijus: I updated the changelog, but you might want to add more
05:26 stevan Ovid: your welcome ... did the whole thing compile? or just the mini version?
05:26 theorbtwo Morning, all.
05:26 Ovid I have a much larger mini-version.
05:27 stevan autrijus: and any tests which still die I thought you might be able to fix, otherwise just add them to force_todo
05:27 stevan Ovid: excellent
05:27 hoowa has left
05:27 stevan btw - t/force_todo is so much nicer than manual todo/un-todo
05:27 stevan morning theorbtwo
05:28 theorbtwo Is the plugins detection killing anybody now?
05:28 stevan ok, going for real, g'nite all see you in about 7 hours
05:28 theorbtwo g'night, stevan.
05:29 gaal morning all. what's that i hear about openfoundry down?
05:29 theorbtwo Mornin, gaal.  If you didn't see, BTW, evan linked to your LJ post.
05:29 gaal i just made coffee, i didn't see *anything* yet :)
05:30 gaal h
05:30 gaal oh, that is
05:31 gaal that evan, i like him :)
05:31 gaal his later post in evan_tech, coming from him, sounds like an april fool's joke though :)
05:33 theorbtwo Odd, I didn't notice that somehow.
05:33 gaal insufficient coffee maybe?
05:33 castaway_ is now known as castaway
05:34 * gaal smokes 1840
05:34 theorbtwo Insufficent tea, quite likely.
05:34 teamjet has left
05:35 gaal king crimson must have been lambdafolk. they have that line in their first album where they mention insufficient schemes.
05:36 gaal beh, why is yaml_harness running rules/Disabled?
05:39 Khisanth gaal: smoking 1840 packs of cigarette a day is a bit unhealthy isn't it? :)
05:39 gaal who said it was cigarettes :)
05:40 Khisanth smoking anything in that quantity has to be bad
05:41 gaal we've reached the Victorian age if you think of r numbers as years AD.
05:41 * Khisanth waits for 3000
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05:46 theorbtwo In the Year Two Thousand... </voice>
05:47 gaal to2, i'm tweaking testgraph a wee bit, is it okay to always say 'type=text/css' in the LINK element?
05:48 theorbtwo I'm not 100% sure.
05:48 gaal oaky, so i won't.
05:49 theorbtwo I didn't originally have it that way; it was suggested as a fix to some problem or another, but I don't remember what, or if it worked.
05:49 theorbtwo I don't really see where it'd be a problem, though.
05:49 gaal it was suggested to fix a problem with my webserver. it didn'
05:49 gaal t fix it :)
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05:49 jabbot pugs - 1841 - A bit more work on S28draft.pod
05:50 gaal i'm adding an option to embed the css file; the command line remains compatible with old usage.
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05:57 dvergin__ Time for bed. S28draft.pod is tucked in for the night and my eyeballs are all a-twiggle. 'Night, all.
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06:10 gaal to2, which version of the cataloger is preferred now? jmm or the other one?
06:10 theorbtwo The other one.
06:10 theorbtwo jmm no longer exists.
06:10 gaal ah, thanks
06:10 theorbtwo (Because it got mv'd over the other one.)
06:11 gaal (i guess i still have it around because of a leftover hack attempt created a conflict and svn was smart enough not to remove my local copy)
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06:14 gaal in that script, do you mean "cd .." instead of "ls .." ?
06:15 gaal and, whoprovides pugs_svn_src?
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06:17 * theorbtwo wonders what gaal is talking about.
06:18 gaal look at util/catalog_tests.pl:26
06:19 theorbtwo Oh.  That's nothingmuch's code; I haven't looked at it much since he added that.
06:19 gaal ah, sorry.
06:19 gaal so do i need 'svn co' instead?
06:19 theorbtwo I think he means cd .. ; svn co http://...
06:19 gaal yeah
06:19 gaal fixing
06:20 Ovid Night all.
06:21 Ovid has quit IRC ()
06:23 * chady looks around and gets worried that he has a lot to learn now to keep up
06:25 * luqui & bed
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06:40 jabbot pugs - 1842 - * type casting errors are now more descr
06:43 gaal http://forum2.org/gaal/pugs/tests_winxp_msys.html and http://forum2.org/gaal/pugs/tests_linux.html - avec test xrefs
06:45 Ovid has joined #perl6
06:46 Ovid Does anyone know how to get Unicode characters to show up on the Mac OS X terminal?
06:46 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
06:49 mj41 has joined #perl6
06:49 jabbot pugs - 1843 - * downgrade Win32 failures to warnings.
06:49 jabbot pugs - 1844 - * =<> now works again (sort of)
06:49 jabbot pugs - 1845 - * Typeable fixes.
06:49 jabbot pugs - 1846 - allow embedding CSS (for broken webserve
06:49 jabbot pugs - 1847 - * "my $x = rhs" should impose rvalue con
06:52 autrijus stevan: cool. I'm still working on test auditing and mutrec
07:04 Ovid Does Pugs have issues with printing unicode characters?
07:04 autrijus worksforme.
07:05 Ovid Hmm ... I can't get HTML::Entities to quite work but printing debug output seems to be weird.
07:05 mj41 WinXP build failed:
07:05 mj41 Compiling Compat           ( src/Compat.hs, src/Compat.o )
07:05 mj41 src/Compat.hs:55:13: Not in scope: `trace'
07:05 mj41 src/Compat.hs:81:0:
07:05 mj41    Duplicate type signature:
07:05 mj41      src/Compat.hs:81:0-37: statFileSize :: FilePath -> IO Integer
07:05 autrijus where's the code? freepan?
07:05 mj41      src/Compat.hs:105:0-37: statFileSize :: FilePath -> IO Integer
07:06 Ovid autrijus:  was that question directed at me?
07:06 autrijus yeah
07:06 autrijus mj41: try r1848
07:06 Alias_ Ovid: You were mentioning reflection before. I forgot to mention that you may want to take a look at Class::Inspector
07:07 mj41 Compact.hs done
07:08 Ovid It's nowhere right now.  I am trying to add HTML::Entities to ext/ and I have decode_entities partially working, but encode_entities is giving me fits.  I haven't checked anything in because I understood that ext/ was only for working code and I've no idea where to check it in at.
07:08 autrijus ok. check in to ext/HTML-Entities/
07:08 autrijus and I'll fix it right away, how about that :)
07:09 Ovid OK :)
07:09 larsen has joined #perl6
07:09 jabbot pugs - 1848 - * fix Compat.hs on win32
07:11 Ovid autrijus:  I just checked it in.
07:12 BigBear has joined #perl6
07:13 mj41 pugs -e "return 1;";
07:13 mj41 cannot return() outside a subroutine
07:13 mj41 Val (VList [VInt 1])
07:13 mj41 Is this ok?
07:14 autrijus $ perl -e 'return 1'
07:14 autrijus Can't return outside a subroutine at -e line 1.
07:14 autrijus I guess it's okay.
07:15 autrijus Ovid: wonderful. let me look
07:15 autrijus I'll rename them.
07:15 Ovid Thanks. I started working on that so I could check in CGI recipes to the cookbook :)
07:15 autrijus to HTML-Entities
07:15 Ovid Lots of stuff is commented out while I was trying to get it to work, so it looks sloppy.
07:17 Ovid Regrettably, I need to hit the sack.  Night all!
07:17 mj41 my mistake, same as perl5, but what about
07:17 mj41 #conf.pl:
07:17 mj41 return { 1; }
07:17 mj41 pugs -e "require 'conf.pl'"
07:17 mj41 perl -e "require 'conf.pl'"
07:17 autrijus Ovid: I see why.
07:17 autrijus you need to use utf8 for your src code.
07:17 Ovid Oh?
07:18 Ovid Er, it wasn't?
07:18 autrijus it was latin1.
07:18 Ovid It looked fine to me.
07:18 autrijus I fixed it.
07:18 autrijus r1852
07:18 Ovid Hmm ... how do I tell?
07:18 Aankhen`` Night Ovid.
07:18 autrijus depends on what your editor is.
07:18 Aankhen`` (whenever you pop off)
07:18 autrijus for vim, "set fenc=utf8"
07:18 Ovid Thanks.
07:19 Ovid I'm using vim 7.0 (alpha) for Mac OS X.  
07:19 Aankhen`` vim on Mac?  Oh, the irony... ;-)
07:19 jabbot pugs - 1849 - First pass at horribly crippled HTML::En
07:19 jabbot pugs - 1850 - * rename directories
07:19 jabbot pugs - 1851 - * change File-Spec name change
07:19 jabbot pugs - 1852 - * use uutf8 literals.
07:19 Ovid Yeah, I've heard it before :)
07:20 Ovid OK, now I'm going to bed and I really mean it!
07:20 Ovid has quit IRC ()
07:20 chady errm.. no ghc-6.4 for debian?
07:21 autrijus chady: look at experimental
07:29 jabbot pugs - 1853 - * and tests should use utf8 too
07:30 chady autrijus: thanx
07:32 mj41 damn it
07:32 mj41 perl -e "my $c={ a=> 1}; print (keys %$c)"  # a
07:32 mj41 pugs -e "my $c=( a=> 1); say $c.keys"   # a
07:32 mj41 pugs -e "my $c={ a=> 1}; say $c.keys"  # 0
07:32 autrijus mj41: fixing.
07:32 ingy hola
07:33 autrijus hey ingy
07:33 mj41 autrijus: thanks
07:33 ingy hi autrijus
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07:37 Aankhen`` «autrijus»: The Perl 5 HTML::Entities appears to be encoded in Latin-1.
07:39 autrijus Aankhen``: Perl 6 apparently is unicode baesd.
07:39 autrijus based, even.
07:39 autrijus it may be a day that we guess latin1.
07:39 autrijus but I do not want it to be the default.
07:40 Aankhen`` Yeh, I was just pointing it out in case there were any problems stemming from that fact...
07:40 autrijus ok :)
07:40 Aankhen`` Do multi subs work?
07:40 autrijus they should/
07:40 autrijus they should.
07:40 Aankhen`` Cool.
07:41 Aankhen`` encode_entities seems to be a good candidate.
07:45 gugod has joined #perl6
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07:54 Juerd autrijus: Didn't Larry say latin1 bytes work as their utf8 characters?
07:54 Juerd (I wonder *how*, though)
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07:57 ingy autrijus: where is the long module list in cpan?
07:58 rgs ingy: http://www.cpan.org/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz ?
07:58 ingy tanks
08:01 Aankhen`` Eek. GHC is 47 MB?
08:01 * Aankhen`` watches his connection choke.
08:01 ingy Perl6 got a BIG motor
08:02 Aankhen`` Heh.
08:03 autrijus Juerd: larry may have said that. I don't see a way to do that cleanly.
08:03 autrijus so I punted.
08:06 Aankhen`` «autrijus»: Are you still working on HTML::Entities?
08:07 autrijus Aankhen``: yes, about to commit now
08:07 Aankhen`` Alright.
08:07 * Aankhen`` waits with bated breath.
08:08 rindolf has joined #perl6
08:08 rindolf Hi all!
08:09 autrijus hi rindolf!
08:09 Aankhen`` Hiya.
08:09 rindolf Hi autrijus
08:09 rindolf Hi Aankhen``
08:09 Aankhen`` What's shakin'?
08:09 rindolf Aankhen``: I'm fine. I finished writing an article for Perl.com.
08:09 Aankhen`` Cool.
08:09 Aankhen`` Link?
08:10 autrijus working HTML::Entities landed.
08:10 Aankhen`` Or is it yet to be submitted?
08:10 Khisanth can the various unicode files be easily distinguished from each other?
08:10 autrijus enjoy
08:10 rindolf Aankhen``: I can /msg you a link.
08:10 autrijus r1854
08:10 Aankhen`` Sure, that'd be great.
08:10 autrijus rindolf: /metoo
08:10 rindolf autrijus: OK
08:10 Aankhen`` Yey for autrijus!
08:10 autrijus Khisanth: utf8 from utf16 etc, sure
08:10 autrijus Khisanth: but a file can be both valid utf8 and valid latin1.
08:10 autrijus and I don't want to trigger reparse.
08:10 autrijus so that's a problem.
08:11 autrijus if you have thunk of a clever algorithm, I'm all ears
08:11 Alias_ with or without prescanning? :)
08:11 Khisanth what about endian? (I am was just looking at the menu in Mozilla)
08:12 autrijus reparse = 2pass ;)
08:12 autrijus Khisanth: endian ha sBOM
08:12 autrijus has BOM
08:12 autrijus so that's clear
08:12 gaal a file is valid utf8 and valid latin1  iff it is ascii, no?
08:12 autrijus no.
08:13 autrijus any utf8 file is also valid latin1 file.
08:13 autrijus actually, any file whatsoever is a valid latin1 file.
08:13 gaal ah, yes of course
08:13 gaal silly me. only it's nonsense latin1, likely
08:13 autrijus aye.
08:14 autrijus problem being, one cannot easily tell.
08:15 gaal all you need it a test for nonsesicality then. though you still need anoth pass, to tell whether the utf8 interpretation yields nonsense too, for example if the author was being silly.
08:15 Khisanth perhaps larry meant something else?
08:15 autrijus gaal: 2pass is not acceptable for a streaming parser.
08:15 autrijus I can lookahead finitely, but I don't want to do infinite lookahead.
08:16 autrijus Khisanth: perhaps. there's no way to tell except ask :)
08:16 gaal autrijus: neither is an AI-complete dependency :)
08:16 gaal (i was saying that tongue in cheek :)
08:17 Alias_ autrijus: Can you reparse at all, or is it just expensive?
08:17 Alias_ My "is this a binary" stuff generally just pulls the first chunk ( 1/2/4k of the file and checks that )
08:18 gaal is latin-1 some sort of preferred 8-bit encoding in perl6?
08:18 autrijus Alias_: that means a 4k lookahead up front
08:18 autrijus that is doable.
08:18 autrijus it is perhaps the most sensible thing to do.
08:18 Alias_ autrijus: Which if it matches the page size is very fast
08:19 Alias_ As long as you _can_ reparse if you have to...?
08:19 Alias_ But I'd imagine that BEGIN would make that very hard
08:19 autrijus yeah, especially BEGIN that affects encoding.
08:19 autrijus use encoding()
08:19 rindolf gaal: hi! It's me, Shlomi.
08:19 rindolf gaal: what's up?
08:19 jabbot pugs - 1854 - * require "" now works on utf8 files.
08:20 autrijus gaal: I don't know. I hope not. I can cope if it is
08:20 Alias_ But really, can you ever actually know?
08:20 nothingmuch small poll: who is the youngest person here? some friend is asking
08:20 gaal hi Shlomi
08:20 nothingmuch he's assuming me, i said lightstep
08:20 rindolf nothingmuch: I'm 27.
08:20 Alias_ how old?
08:20 autrijus definitely not me. I'm 23, I'm old ;)
08:20 rindolf Hi nothingmuch
08:20 nothingmuch hola
08:20 rindolf nothingmuch: what's up?
08:21 * theorbtwo is back.
08:21 autrijus hey theorbtwo.
08:21 rindolf nothingmuch: how old are you?
08:21 nothingmuch 19
08:21 autrijus I'm currently fixing the infinite loop in array_ref
08:21 nothingmuch lighstep is 18
08:21 nothingmuch not much
08:21 * theorbtwo is 24.
08:21 nothingmuch or maybe even 17
08:21 * gaal is 64
08:22 autrijus mmm base 7?
08:22 gaal j/k
08:22 rindolf nothingmuch: I talked with a 16-year old Perl programmer yesterday
08:22 nothingmuch rindolf: the person is looking for someone interested in p6
08:22 rindolf nothingmuch: I see.
08:22 nothingmuch if that's relevant, then i shoot
08:22 autrijus next week I'll turn 24, which means I would have programmed perl for 10 years.
08:22 nothingmuch it's for some interview
08:22 rindolf nothingmuch: are you exempt from service? Or are you an Atuday?
08:23 nothingmuch exempt is true
08:23 rindolf autrijus: I've been programming Perl since 1996
08:23 * nothingmuch feels younger all of a sudden
08:23 BigBear has quit IRC (Client Quit)
08:23 rindolf nothingmuch: do you know your way around Module::Build?
08:23 nothingmuch rindolf: i've hacked something into it once
08:23 nothingmuch and i use it
08:23 nothingmuch but i don't know it per se
08:25 * theorbtwo feels much older.
08:25 rindolf nothingmuch: do you know how I can install a custom file under /usr/share/xml/ ?
08:25 nothingmuch nope... usually i resort to doing that in __DATA__
08:25 nothingmuch this is because /usr/share might not be /usr/share
08:26 rindolf nothingmuch: well, something along these lines.
08:26 nothingmuch i'd put it under the same libpath you put your .pm in
08:26 nothingmuch for consistency
08:26 rindolf OK.
08:26 nothingmuch because the file can be looked up in perl
08:27 nothingmuch and because you don't have to learn anything new =)
08:27 rindolf Of course, I'm considering changing my strategy and writing a module with a function that will return the content I want to put it in the file.
08:27 puetzk has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:27 nothingmuch that's normally a better approach
08:27 nothingmuch even if the function is just a thin wrapper for a file
08:28 rindolf nothingmuch: OK.
08:31 puetzk has joined #perl6
08:36 castaway hey there young people :)
08:36 scw is now known as scv
08:36 nothingmuch hola, old woman!
08:36 scv is now known as scw
08:36 castaway you young whippersnapper you :)
08:37 * castaway wonders if shes the oldest here ,)
08:37 rindolf castaway: how old are you? (if I may be prudent enough to ask)
08:37 castaway 31 ,)
08:37 castaway (ancient ,)
08:38 castaway not that I feel this old..
08:38 rindolf Is there anyone here older than 31?
08:38 nothingmuch our search is in the other direction
08:38 * castaway suspects chip may be..
08:39 * theorbtwo is Sparticus!
08:39 rindolf Chip Salzberg is here?
08:39 nothingmuch yes, he is the parrot lead architecht
08:39 nothingmuch tect
08:39 castaway occasionally
08:43 castaway hmm, Chip: Back in 1988, I wanted to use Perl 2.0 on a ..
08:44 * rgs is 30
08:44 rgs since several years
08:44 rindolf castaway: perl 2.0?
08:44 nothingmuch damn, i was 3
08:44 rindolf castaway: oh right Nineteen-_Eighty_-Eight.
08:45 rindolf I was 11
08:45 castaway right
08:45 * theorbtwo was 8.
08:45 * castaway was umm.. 15
08:45 nothingmuch oh crap, you had to bee a teenager in the 80s?
08:45 nothingmuch i'm so sorry!
08:45 castaway so I'm betting he's got a few years on me
08:45 castaway no reason to be, they were good :)
08:46 rindolf castaway: what did you want to run Perl on?
08:46 castaway No, that was Chip, not me, I was quoting
08:46 rindolf castaway: I see.
08:47 castaway but for the record, it says: Xenix/286
08:47 castaway http://www.foo.be/docs/tpj/issues/vol2_4/tpj0204-0004.html
08:47 rindolf Xenix... %-)
08:47 rindolf Xenis was a single-user UNIX.
08:51 castaway SEE still running, nm?
08:51 * castaway attacked it yesterday
08:51 nothingmuch should be
08:51 nothingmuch i can access it
08:52 castaway nifty
08:52 castaway its getting as far as sending me doc lists.. just need to parse them :)
08:53 nothingmuch all from seemacs?
08:56 theorbtwo She's dealing with the lunch-guy now, I think.
08:56 theorbtwo Sounds like all from seemacs.
08:58 castaway yes (back)
08:58 castaway (from 5 floors down)
08:58 autrijus $a = 5; *$a
08:58 autrijus is that an error or just (5) ?
08:58 castaway yes from seemacs.. ie it takes my connection, thinks Im another SEE instance, and offers me a doclist.. :)
09:00 rindolf What's seemacs?
09:00 theorbtwo http://emacswiki.org/wiki/SubEthaEmacs
09:01 castaway An attempt to implement SubEthaEdit type multi user editing, into emacs
09:02 theorbtwo Not just SEE-type, but wire-compatible with SEE.
09:02 castaway umm, right
09:03 * castaway should update that page
09:07 autrijus infinite cyclic structures implemented.
09:07 nothingmuch autrijus++
09:07 rindolf perlbot top 20 karma
09:07 perlbot The top 20 karma entries: C: 77, autrijus: 71, nothingmuch: 48, stevan: 46, ~brad2901: 29, theorbtwo: 28, ingy: 28, gaal: 21, $i: 20, iblech: 16, beth: 16, Darren_Duncan: 14, jagerman: 14, ~wegstar: 13, (: 13, shapr: 12, Yaakov: 12, Somni: 12, Corion: 11, Juerd: 10
09:07 autrijus my $a = [0]; $a[0] = $a;
09:08 nothingmuch $i =)
09:08 iblechbot has quit IRC (Operation timed out)
09:09 * nothingmuch whines about redhat and minimizes IRC again
09:09 * Khisanth wonders what is (:++
09:09 castaway an odd smiley?
09:09 Khisanth or wait it's (++
09:09 theorbtwo Hm, trying to say $a, say $a.perl, or say +$a hangs.
09:10 Khisanth .perl?
09:10 theorbtwo Think Data::Dumper.
09:11 Khisanth oh
09:11 theorbtwo (I'm not sure if the first two hanging is OK, but the last should just return 1, no?)
09:12 puetzk has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:12 shapr whoa, I got 12
09:12 * shapr boings happily
09:13 theorbtwo Allo, shapr.
09:14 * castaway ruffles shapr
09:14 shapr allo!
09:14 * shapr looks like a nice set of curtains with ruffles
09:14 castaway *g*
09:14 castaway hey there bouncy
09:14 * castaway dubs shapr "tigger"
09:15 shapr heh
09:17 * gaal goes "oo"
09:19 jabbot pugs - 1855 - * saner context casting; infinite cyclic
09:20 autrijus my $array_ref7 = [ $array_ref1[[2, 1, 0]] ];
09:20 autrijus this tests looks very wrong...
09:20 kungfuftr moo
09:21 * shapr boings
09:21 castaway woof!
09:24 autrijus oh well. I'll change it to
09:24 autrijus my $array_ref7 = [ $array_ref1[*[2, 1, 0]] ];
09:24 elmex has joined #perl6
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09:29 jabbot pugs - 1856 - * more array_ref work; all tests now pas
09:30 ingy autrijus: just commited S27
09:30 autrijus ingy: woot
09:33 * ingy looks forward to playing a few rounds at YAPC
09:34 castaway playing?
09:35 ingy castaway: read S27
09:35 * castaway tries to absorb it my osmosis :)
09:35 autrijus hmm
09:35 autrijus my @lines7 = readline($in7);
09:35 autrijus my @line8 = 1..Inf;
09:35 ingy http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/docs/S27draft.pod
09:35 autrijus somehow some people want the first to be strict
09:35 autrijus and the second to be lazy
09:36 autrijus talk about conflicting expectations.
09:36 castaway :)
09:36 * theorbtwo notes that a circle is not a polygon.
09:36 autrijus it is a infinygon.
09:36 theorbtwo I thought it was a unigon.
09:36 nothingmuch autrijus: i think this can be done by doing laziness as a trait
09:37 nothingmuch it's a trait of the value
09:37 nothingmuch that affects how it's containers behaves
09:37 autrijus I'll just mandate readline() is strict in list context for now.
09:37 nothingmuch rvalues that occur from readline(...) etc, will be eager
09:37 Alias_ has quit IRC ("Leaving")
09:37 nothingmuch or strict (i think that's a conflicting term)
09:37 puetzk has joined #perl6
09:38 autrijus eager == strict in here
09:38 nothingmuch i.e., be eager where we suspect it should be done
09:38 nothingmuch yes
09:38 nothingmuch you are right
09:38 nothingmuch be lazy only when we're sure it's safe
09:38 nothingmuch and how are we sure it's safe? we know some primitives, like ... Inf are pure
09:38 nothingmuch or some explicit constructs are lazy
09:38 BigBear has joined #perl6
09:38 nothingmuch strictness is a contageous trait
09:39 nothingmuch that affects everything it touches
09:39 nothingmuch including delazifying things that are lazy, but are interacting with strict values now
09:39 jabbot pugs - 1857 - S27 - Beer Drinking Hackers Must Read!
09:39 jabbot pugs - 1858 - * add pair.keys and pair.values back.
09:40 castaway ah, perl culture, of course
09:42 castaway hmm, poor ole non-drinking hackers :)
09:42 theorbtwo You can be the offical.
09:42 rindolf ingy: hi.
09:42 castaway hmm, ta :)
09:42 castaway as long as I get tea :)
09:43 theorbtwo And a copy of 02modules!
09:43 castaway of course
09:43 elmex wtf is S27 ??
09:43 elmex i hate beer
09:43 castaway the Perl Culture chapter
09:43 elmex i only drink whiskey
09:43 castaway sorry, it only says beer
09:44 ingy elmex: add your own game :P
09:44 elmex s/beer/alcohol/ s/alcohol/drugs/ s/drugs/drugs&sex/
09:44 Khisanth caffeinated drinking game should be more productive ;)
09:44 ingy but less fun
09:45 ingy hi rindolf
09:45 kungfuftr vodka+redbull!
09:45 nothingmuch redbull?! *choking sounds*
09:45 nothingmuch too sweet!
09:45 ingy tequilla+vodka+redbull!!
09:45 ingy TVR baby!
09:45 nothingmuch jagermeister (2-3 shots), then beer
09:46 nothingmuch (as much as it takes to stay happy but not completely drunk)
09:46 ingy nothingmuch: TVR is a traditional JAPH drink
09:46 nothingmuch (normally 3-5 1/2 liters an evening)
09:46 elmex scottisch whiskey!
09:46 castaway Scotch
09:46 elmex oh, thanks ;)
09:46 * nothingmuch has never tried whiskey
09:47 elmex scotch whiskey
09:47 elmex nothingmuch: my fav. is glenfiddich ;)
09:47 nothingmuch http://perlmonks.org/?node=edan
09:47 nothingmuch there's a list there, maybe you count
09:48 rindolf ingy: what's up? What is keeping you busy nowadays?
09:49 jabbot pugs - 1859 - * readline() is now strict in list conte
09:53 ingy rindolf: Perl
09:54 rindolf ingy: what in Perl?
09:55 ingy Kwiki, YAML, Perldoc, Kwid, FreePAN, Pugs to name a few
09:55 ingy you know, top level namespaces stuff ;)
09:56 ingy (except Pugs)
09:56 rindolf Heh.
09:56 rindolf Can FreePAN install Python modules?
09:57 ingy http://wiki.freepan.org/index.cgi?FAQ
09:57 ingy <-- bedtime
09:57 rindolf Oh the horror! http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/Kwid-0.00_01/
09:57 rindolf ingy: aren't you British?
09:57 ingy no
09:57 rindolf ingy: I see.
09:57 rindolf ingy: good night.
09:58 ingy nighty night
09:58 kungfuftr anyone got much experience with perl and shift_jis encodings?
09:58 kungfuftr (OT i know)
09:58 rindolf kungfuftr: don't look at me.
09:59 * rindolf is innocent (really)
10:01 autark-jp kungfuftr: only experience I have is converting it to something sane ;)
10:01 bd_ has joined #perl6
10:03 kungfuftr autark-jp: how bout converting the MS version of shift_jis to utf-8 and back again?
10:03 Aankhen`` Is builtins/undef supposed to fail a few tests?
10:03 autrijus I'm going thru all tests now
10:03 autrijus please bear with me
10:03 autark-jp don't know if I have touched MS version, but sjis->utf8->sjis, yes.
10:03 Aankhen`` OK.
10:04 rindolf Aankhen``: welcome back
10:04 Aankhen`` Just compiling Pugs for the first time, and the tests are taking longer than the compilation. :-P
10:04 Aankhen`` Thanks, rindolf. :-)
10:04 autrijus that's usual. we have lots and lots of tests
10:04 Aankhen`` Yeah, I figured.
10:04 Aankhen`` Anyway.
10:05 Aankhen`` I'll wait till you're done with going through the tests.
10:05 ingy autrijus: who played CPAN Drinking besides acme, autrijus, clkao, gugod, ingy, mugwump and obra?
10:05 autrijus yeah
10:05 ingy was hcchien there?
10:06 autrijus no
10:06 ingy whiteg was there but did not play
10:06 nothingmuch perl golf should be mentioned, it being the basis for pugs development driving
10:06 ingy nothingmuch: patches welcome!
10:06 rindolf ingy: what's CPAN Drinking?
10:06 autrijus s/patches/commits/
10:06 * nothingmuch thinks outloud more than he should
10:07 ingy rindolf: read S27
10:07 * theorbtwo asks questions less then he should.
10:07 nothingmuch rindolf: see s27 in docs
10:07 autrijus rindolf: built pugs yet? :)
10:08 rindolf There's a typo there.
10:08 rindolf autrijus: no, not yet.
10:09 rindolf EQUIPTMENT.
10:09 rindolf twice
10:09 ingy rindolf: fix it please
10:09 ingy I must sleeeeep
10:09 theorbtwo G'night, Ingy.
10:09 jabbot pugs - 1860 - * join () now passes all tests; ().join(
10:09 jabbot pugs - 1861 - Added history of CPAN drinking game
10:10 ingy night theorbtwo &
10:10 autrijus ingy: fixed.
10:11 rindolf ingy: night
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10:15 theorbtwo Mornin, meta, cwest.
10:15 autrijus hey.
10:16 * kungfuftr reruns smoker
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10:19 jabbot pugs - 1862 - * fix typo, spotted by rindolf.
10:20 * rindolf pets jabbot
10:20 gaal who was the official for the game?
10:21 autrijus whiteg I think
10:21 nothingmuch jabbot: seen stevan
10:21 jabbot nothingmuch: stevan was seen on Tue Apr 12 05:28:46 2005 GMT
10:21 nothingmuch goody goody gumdrops
10:21 nothingmuch i'm forking off test graph
10:21 nothingmuch i have some ideas:
10:22 nothingmuch or maybe it doesn't, maybe it just builds a structure
10:22 nothingmuch yaml harness should be TAP::YAML, or something along those lines
10:22 nothingmuch the actual harness should use it
10:22 nothingmuch it is an object that takes straps and builds yml
10:22 nothingmuch and the yaml harness uses YAML and that to make a yml
10:23 nothingmuch TAP::Visualize::$foo will be testgraph.pl
10:23 nothingmuch what is $foo? i don't know what kind of graph that is
10:23 theorbtwo TAP::Visualize::HTML ?
10:23 nothingmuch there are many ways to use HTML to visualize it
10:23 theorbtwo The name wasn't meant to invoke "graph" so much as "graphical".
10:23 nothingmuch i'm not sure that is accurate enough
10:24 nothingmuch i'll make a Tap::Visualize::$foo::Consolidating, which takes several YAMLs
10:24 nothingmuch since consolidation is basically a display issue
10:24 nothingmuch but it will use TAP::Consolidator, i think
10:24 nothingmuch we could say it's Tap::Visualize::HTMLMatrix?
10:25 nothingmuch i think that gives a better idea of what it does
10:25 theorbtwo Works for me.
10:25 nothingmuch okay
10:26 nothingmuch so what should the TAP::DOM thing name be?
10:27 nothingmuch TAP::Structure? that is a bit vague?
10:28 * castaway is still puzzling what "TAP" might be :)
10:28 nothingmuch http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?Test::Harness::TAP
10:28 theorbtwo Test somethingoranother Protocol.
10:28 nothingmuch test anything protocol ;-)
10:28 theorbtwo Perl's interface between testing modules like Test::More and the test harness Test::Harness is a simple text-based format called TAP, the Test Anything Protocol. This is its story.
10:29 castaway aha
10:29 jabbot pugs - 1863 - * reverse.t now all passes.
10:32 theorbtwo The modules should probably be under the Test::* namespace, rather then TAP::*.
10:32 nothingmuch TAP::Model is the best name I can think of
10:32 nothingmuch i don't want to imply they're used for testing...
10:32 nothingmuch maybe Test::TAP::*?
10:33 theorbtwo Why don't you want to imply that?
10:33 nothingmuch because they aren't test modules per se
10:33 nothingmuch they are reporting tools
10:33 nothingmuch customarily Test::* gives you a set of assertions, or whatever
10:33 nothingmuch it's very useful that you can get a dense result list
10:33 nothingmuch and normally know exactly what a module does in the Test:: namespace
10:34 nothingmuch i feel a bit ooky about polluting test results
10:34 nothingmuch since I know it will bug me a little
10:34 nothingmuch the Test::Harness mess (one for every dist that bundles it) is annoying enough already
10:34 nothingmuch but either way, Test::TAP is good enough for me
10:35 Aankhen`` BBL.
10:35 nothingmuch because you learn what TAP is once, and then you can filter quickly
10:35 nothingmuch ciao Aankhen``
10:37 lightstep has joined #perl6
10:37 rindolf Aankhen``: bye
10:38 nothingmuch hola lightstep
10:38 lightstep is it just me, or does t/data_types/hash_ref.t contain an infinite loop?
10:38 rindolf lightstep: hi
10:38 lightstep y0
10:39 lightstep pugs -e 'my $a; $a<a>=1'  <--  loops
10:40 nothingmuch then that's a bug
10:40 nothingmuch ping autrijus
10:47 * lightstep -> bong
10:47 rindolf has quit IRC ("Client exiting")
10:47 nothingmuch sshhh!
10:47 nothingmuch you might be bugged
10:47 nothingmuch with all this anarchy going about the feds are probably monitoring #perl6
10:56 autrijus whew.
10:56 autrijus just implemented mergesort.
10:56 autrijus @a.sort:{$^b <=> $^a} works
10:56 autrijus as doea
10:56 autrijus sort {$^b <=> $^a} @a
10:56 nothingmuch yay!
10:57 nothingmuch this could be lazified
10:57 autrijus provided you know that the closure does not cause side efects.
10:57 autrijus maybe you want the side effects.
10:57 nothingmuch as a heapsort
10:57 nothingmuch i thought we don't care about all that stuff in p6
10:57 nothingmuch =P
10:57 autrijus ;)
10:58 autrijus you wish ;)
10:58 nothingmuch no i wish otherwise
10:58 nothingmuch but thats what i sort of seem to observe
10:59 nothingmuch the general mantra is that somehow things will work out
10:59 jabbot pugs - 1864 - * sort {} now works.
11:00 castaway "things"?
11:00 * castaway decides its lunchtime
11:03 pjcj autrijus: you want to specify when and how often and with which parameters a sort sub will be called?
11:03 autrijus not really.
11:03 nothingmuch autrijus: what is your opinion on laziness?
11:04 autrijus I think laziness is a good thing in general. :)
11:04 autrijus is this vague enough?
11:04 pjcj ah - good.  It sounded as though you did.
11:04 xern damn, my remote machine is down..... cannot write code now....
11:04 nothingmuch i love laziness
11:04 pjcj laziness is still a virtue, even in Perl6, no?
11:04 nothingmuch but i don't want to give up robustness
11:04 nothingmuch i prefer being explicitly lazy
11:11 Aankhen`` Is t/data_types/array_ref supposed to take ages?
11:12 Aankhen`` It seems to be stuck at "ok 35/41".
11:12 autrijus hm? it worksforme
11:13 Aankhen`` Strange.
11:13 Aankhen`` I'll try again in a few minutes.
11:14 rindolf has joined #perl6
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11:17 rindolf nothingmuch: Ran Eilam demands his book back.
11:17 nothingmuch ran eilam can give me his mailing address like he promised 3-4 times
11:17 BigBear has quit IRC (Client Quit)
11:18 nothingmuch and then i will gladly mail it
11:18 nothingmuch but i'm not driving to TA on anti-isthemines
11:18 ninereasons has joined #perl6
11:18 rindolf nothingmuch: are anti-isthemines a kind of drugs?
11:18 nothingmuch yes
11:18 nothingmuch they repress a part of the immune system
11:18 castaway histamines, no?
11:18 castaway (for hayfever)
11:18 nothingmuch could be, i have no clue, castaway
11:19 nothingmuch typically allergic people produce histamines for the wrong reasons
11:19 rindolf nothingmuch: you can take a bus.
11:19 jabbot pugs - 1865 - * empty scalar autovivification.
11:19 nothingmuch rindolf: no, i can't, because if i get back from work, and then go, by the time i'm done i have no bus home
11:20 nothingmuch please don't patronize me, i can think of this stuff myself
11:20 rindolf nothingmuch: I see.
11:20 nothingmuch anyway, i have dermatitis, which is like allergies in that histamines are produced wrongly, but the reasons for this symptom are different from allergies
11:20 Aankhen`` t/builtins/string/length went mad...
11:21 * rindolf has prepared rice with lentils
11:21 Aankhen`` "Failed 36/15 tests, -140.00% okay"
11:21 nothingmuch Aankhen``: Test::Harness is funny that way
11:21 nothingmuch if the plan doesn't match reality in some way
11:22 Aankhen`` OK.
11:22 iblechbot has joined #perl6
11:22 nothingmuch run pugs t/builtins/string/length
11:22 nothingmuch .t
11:22 nothingmuch and fix the plan stuff
11:22 nothingmuch and also make a bug report to Test::Harness about that
11:22 Aankhen`` t/data_types/array_ref is stuck on "ok 35/41" again.
11:23 * Aankhen`` salutes!
11:23 Aankhen`` SIR YES SIR!
11:23 nothingmuch double time
11:23 autrijus it doesn't for me :-(
11:23 nothingmuch ;-)
11:23 Aankhen`` Hrm.
11:23 Aankhen`` I'll fix the plan thingie first.
11:23 autrijus did you "make optimized"?
11:23 autrijus cool
11:23 * nothingmuch believes in god, and believes that god believes in Aankhen``
11:24 Aankhen`` nmake, actually; Win32, VC++.
11:24 Aankhen`` No optimized though.
11:25 * nothingmuch thinks his GC zone ideas are materializing very well, but doesn't have the time to impl
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11:29 jabbot pugs - 1866 - * hash() and pair() works as described i
11:31 Aankhen`` Whaaa?
11:31 Aankhen`` It's running 51 tests...
11:31 Aankhen`` Hrm.
11:31 Aankhen`` It's running each test three times.
11:31 Aankhen`` Inside the loop, atleast.
11:32 * theorbtwo wonders why pugs -e 'require_haskell("/usr/src/SHA1/blib/arch/SHA1__0_0_1.o"); say &sha1' still doesn't work.
11:32 nothingmuch gaal++
11:33 castaway what does it do?
11:33 theorbtwo Undeclared variable &sha1
11:33 theorbtwo Val VUndef
11:34 castaway hmm, how does p6 know thats supposed to be a func call in SHA1*.o ?
11:35 theorbtwo Because SHA1__0_0_1.o tells it so.
11:35 castaway automagically adds to the namespace?
11:36 theorbtwo Supposed to.
11:37 castaway can you check the symbol table or whatever, and see if its there?
11:37 castaway can someone give me a url to look directly at the files in the pugs svn?
11:37 theorbtwo http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/head/
11:38 castaway thanks
11:38 Aankhen`` Um... how do you de-reference an array reference?
11:39 castaway hmm, head/ didnt work, but the rest was good :)
11:39 Aankhen`` Nevermind.
11:39 * castaway looks at doc/class ducktyping stuff, but cant understand it
11:39 jabbot pugs - 1867 - * infinite cyclic hashes.
11:42 kcwu pugs> ?1
11:42 kcwu Segmentation fault (core dumped)
11:43 Aankhen`` I give up.
11:43 Aankhen`` How do you de-reference an array ref?
11:43 theorbtwo The cabal broke @$ar?
11:44 Aankhen`` Doesn't seem to work.
11:44 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
11:45 autrijus list $ar
11:45 Aankhen`` Ah.
11:45 Aankhen`` Thanks.
11:45 autrijus @{$ar}  probably should work too
11:46 autrijus write TODO tests.
11:46 Aankhen`` Alright.
11:46 Aankhen`` Does next() work?
11:46 autrijus no.
11:46 kcwu it seems that, any line begin with '?' will make pugs crash. "? <exp>" doesn't work at all
11:47 Aankhen`` Darn.
11:47 autrijus kcwu: right. had not have time to fix
11:47 Aankhen`` There's something strange about t/builtins/strings/length.t
11:48 Aankhen`` Hrm, wait.
11:48 autrijus but, dinner first. &
11:48 * castaway wonders why P6::Bible requires Spiffy
11:48 Aankhen`` Enjoy your meal.
11:49 theorbtwo Bon appitite, autrijus.
11:49 nothingmuch castaway: most of ingy's stuff does
11:49 theorbtwo BBIAB, have to reboot.
11:50 castaway aeh, but I thunk P6 bible is just a bunch of pod files..
11:50 castaway (and is it supposed to give errors parsing the pod files? :)
11:51 chady is now known as megalomania
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11:52 Aankhen`` Eek.
11:52 Aankhen`` This array is being flattened. O_O
11:52 Aankhen`` This array is being flattened. O_O
11:52 Aankhen`` Er.
11:52 Aankhen`` Sorry.
11:55 Aankhen`` Since the tests for multidimensional arrays are all TODO'd in data_types/array.t,  I guess they're not supported.
11:57 theorbtwo has joined #perl6
11:57 Aankhen`` WB.
11:57 * castaway snuggles theorbtwo.
11:57 * theorbtwo thanks Aankhen, and kisses castaway.
11:59 Aankhen`` The more I look at length.t, the stranger it seems...
11:59 gaal and now it only has the *easy* cases, Aanken`` :)
11:59 gaal s/k/kh/
11:59 jabbot pugs - 1868 - * hash.t all passes.
11:59 jabbot pugs - 1869 - * repair junction.pick
11:59 Aankhen`` Heh.
11:59 Aankhen`` That's nice. ^_^
12:00 Aankhen`` Welp, atleast now it's clear why it's running 36 tests.
12:00 Aankhen`` Sorta clear, at any rate
12:00 Aankhen`` .
12:09 jabbot pugs - 1870 - fix indentation
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12:18 * nothingmuch wants proper delegation already!
12:18 nothingmuch Class::Delegation doesn't really cut it
12:20 rindolf nothingmuch: what does delegation mean?
12:20 nothingmuch sub new { ....; $self->{some_slot} = $object }
12:20 pdcawley has joined #perl6
12:20 nothingmuch and then you somehow declare that $object handles methods xyz for you
12:21 rindolf nothingmuch: can't AUTOLOAD or whatever do that?
12:21 nothingmuch and you don't have to wrap it in sub method { $self->{some_slot}->method(@_) }
12:21 nothingmuch or use scary AUTOLOAD tricks
12:21 nothingmuch AUTOLOAD only goes so far
12:21 nothingmuch Class::Delegation uses a very scary variation on the AUTOLOAD theme
12:23 iblech has joined #perl6
12:23 iblech nothingmuch: has $.some_slot handles <method1 method2>
12:23 nothingmuch in p5, not p6
12:24 nothingmuch if i didn't know how lovely delegation in p6 will be, i wouldn't be complaining ;-)
12:24 iblech :)
12:25 pdcawley Okay, how do I tell ghc where to find hs-plugins?
12:25 rindolf nothingmuch: but you can manufacture methods to do it using eval,
12:25 nothingmuch rindolf: no thank you
12:25 ninereasons make install && make register, pdcawley
12:25 pdcawley Ah...
12:25 nothingmuch rindolf: i code to promote readability 1st
12:25 nothingmuch i've done this stuff, and i do it for fun still
12:26 pdcawley That'll teach me not to read the whole README
12:26 nothingmuch but this code is code for others to read and see, and i'd rather type a bit more, than to confuse someone whose reading it
12:26 nothingmuch i can do it with regular @ISA inheritence, and it's not that aweful
12:26 obra nothingmuch++
12:26 nothingmuch it just adds a bit of interface cruft
12:26 rindolf nothingmuch: I meant that write a method factory and then use it like (delegate([qw(method1 method2 method3)], 'myslot'))
12:27 nothingmuch this is not very reliable, it suffers from the infamous INIT/BEGIN time mess
12:27 nothingmuch rindolf: again, that's what Class::Delegation basically cooks up for you, it doesn't matter how it's implemented
12:27 nothingmuch (not friendly to mod_perl users)
12:27 ninereasons gaal, I hope that I didn't mess up length.t too much.  If I did, would you tell me what I did wrong?
12:27 nothingmuch as this module will most likely be used for generating reports, i don't want anyone sufferring
12:28 * pdcawley really, really wishes the INIT/BEGIN thing could be fixed up in Perl 5.
12:28 pdcawley There's so much cool stuff you can do when you use that stuff, and then it all falls to pieces when you try to use mod_perl
12:29 nothingmuch Export::Simple for example
12:29 nothingmuch that's sooooo beautiful
12:29 jabbot pugs - 1871 - length.t add to force_todo
12:30 pdcawley Almost anything that uses attributes falls apart in mod_perl if memory serves.
12:30 obra agh! piers! you said that hateful word
12:30 pdcawley obra: What hateful word?
12:30 obra
12:30 nothingmuch funny thing is that attributes usually help organize wide apps like web ones very well
12:30 * obra is a bit bent out of shape about the Apache2 renaming
12:30 pdcawley nothingmuch: Indeed.
12:31 obra "Here! well into RC land, we're going to break all your apache2 code"
12:31 pdcawley Imagine being able to write 'sub whatever :handles('/this/path') {...}'
12:31 obra and people have wondered why I didn't want to port RT to mp2 until it was released
12:31 * pdcawley is so glad he isn't writing web apps any more.
12:31 * nothingmuch is glad he never really started
12:32 * pdcawley notes that Rails is tempting him to start again, but this time in Ruby.
12:32 pdcawley The P6Rails is going to kick *much* ass.
12:33 nothingmuch yeah
12:33 nothingmuch with WALK, and hyper dispatch
12:33 nothingmuch and junctions
12:33 nothingmuch and all that beautiful stuff that really helps to simplify spaghetti logic
12:33 nothingmuch and, err, proper OOP support
12:33 nothingmuch duh
12:33 * obra has been luring autrijus toward writing webapp framework
12:33 * pdcawley was thinking more along the lines of all the lovely domain specific metaprogramming that Rails has.
12:34 gaal back
12:34 pdcawley but a big 'yeah' to the other stuff...
12:34 gaal ninereasons, what did you think you messed up? :)
12:34 nothingmuch pdcawley: example? i don't know rails
12:34 nothingmuch i barely know of it
12:34 ninereasons I was confused by an edit conflict, for one thing.
12:34 hawkaloogie has quit IRC ("-=SysReset 2.53=-")
12:35 nothingmuch ninereasons: 3-way-diff is your best friend
12:35 ninereasons I checked in a G file - bad
12:35 gaal where, length.t?
12:35 nothingmuch too bad vimdiff doesn't know how to do it
12:35 pdcawley When you're defining your class attributes, for instance, you can declare some fields with 'has :whatever', 'belongs_to :whatever_else' and it uses this info to work out the database table structure it's working with.
12:35 ninereasons fixed now, though.
12:35 ninereasons (well, I think so, anyway)
12:35 nothingmuch pdcawley: ah, pretty
12:35 gaal sorry, i was eating and i seem to lack some context
12:36 pdcawley And, while it does it, it sets up appropriate accessor methods.
12:36 nothingmuch pdcawley: i have a pet project that's sort of stalled because real work isn't pushing it forward, that does very funky stuff with Class::DBI schemas, using SQL::Fairy
12:36 ninereasons sorry, I didn't get enough sleep and probably didn't proved intelligible context, gaal
12:36 nothingmuch err, sqlfairy, that is SQL::Translator
12:36 ninereasons *provide
12:37 pdcawley Oh, it's all stuff that can be done in Perl, but it's so well thought through in Rails.
12:37 ninereasons svn up to get length.t and forece_todo and see what you think about the alterations I made.
12:37 * nothingmuch will take a look at it some day, if he ever gets to needing to do web development
12:37 gaal no worries :)
12:37 pdcawley And because you don't have to roll all your own 'internals of the object' cruft for every method, you can just get on with writing the app.
12:37 obra yeah. rails is _pretty-
12:37 obra and the code is _pretty_
12:37 pdcawley obra: It's quality all the way down.
12:38 ninereasons gaal, ok :)
12:38 kungfuftr pdcawley: how's the pgce going?
12:38 pdcawley Ruby has beautifully 'light' OO syntax; there's very little scaffolding so every bit of code you read is relevant.
12:38 pdcawley kungfuftr: Dropped out.
12:39 kungfuftr pdcawley: heh, perl addict!
12:39 pdcawley Not that. Just a hellish workload.
12:39 jabbot pugs - 1872 - resolve conflicting edit
12:40 nothingmuch how does ruby support YAML?
12:40 * pdcawley notes that Ruby is one of the things that really excites him about Perl 6's OO facilities.
12:40 pdcawley nothingmuch: Very well, thank you.
12:40 nothingmuch goody
12:40 * nothingmuch might be tempted to really try and use it when it's time
12:40 pdcawley The testing fixtures in Rails are specced using YAML.
12:40 nothingmuch but again, management will have to unstick that project
12:41 co3 has joined #perl6
12:42 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "msys build fail (latest r)" (5 lines, 192B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9259
12:43 gaal who broke the build? :)
12:43 kungfuftr gaal: you need to make clean
12:43 gaal (okay on linux, where i have hs-plugin fwiw)
12:44 gaal but i did :)
12:44 kungfuftr hhhmmm... odd
12:44 * kungfuftr waits for his testrun to finish
12:44 pdcawley Tests are failing here 'Cannot cast from VRef <Scalar> to [Char]' looks common...
12:44 pdcawley OSX + hs-plugin
12:44 ninereasons don't build 'make optimized' pdcawley, that might solve the problem.
12:45 gaal oh: on linux, src/Eval.hs:286:34: Empty 'do' construct
12:45 * pdcawley just did 'make; make test'
12:45 pdcawley no make optimized in sight.
12:46 ninereasons hm.  i'm not helping then :(
12:46 gaal oh: on linux i forgot to make clean
12:46 gaal so ignore that complaint
12:46 gaal but msys is certainly b0rken.
12:47 kungfuftr latest smoke build on my boxen: http://kungfuftr.com/pugs-smoke.html
12:48 ninereasons look at all that perty green :)
12:49 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
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12:50 gaal i just noticed something i don't like about the testgraph: you can't copy the test description.
12:50 gaal i wonder if there's a way to avoid that w/o javascript
12:51 kungfuftr not really i'm afraid
12:51 gaal oh, crap: the Eval error still happens for me in latest r
12:51 gaal on linux
12:52 gaal whoops, sorry, no i had a stale file again. careless. :(
12:52 * kungfuftr *slaps* gaal
12:52 gaal ouch!
12:54 * kungfuftr reruns test builder
12:54 ninereasons there's no way for pugs-interactive to wait on the following line for the completion of an expression, is there? I've tried the obvious '\' and that doesn't work
12:55 nnunley has joined #perl6
12:55 stevan make optimized just worked for me
12:55 stevan (so far)
12:55 ninereasons wow.
12:55 stevan hola nothingmuch
12:56 stevan the test are running (with some errors though)
12:56 kungfuftr junctions seem to be pretty borked
12:56 stevan kungfuftr: really??
12:57 kungfuftr stevan: yeah, 18/30 failed... 7/23 ran, etc.
12:57 nothingmuch hola stevan
12:57 nothingmuch which do yo prefer, stevan, HTML::Template, or Petal?
12:58 stevan nothingmuch: stevan  mostly, I dont respond when people call me Petal :P
12:58 stevan nothingmuch: I have never used Petal
12:58 nothingmuch stevan++
12:58 stevan HTML::Template used to be my favorite
12:58 nothingmuch exactly
12:58 nothingmuch it's nice, but no one uses it
12:58 stevan but now I am addicted to Template Toolkit
12:59 nothingmuch IMHO we don't need a "real" templating thing, and i'd rather have one that everyone can read easily
12:59 stevan I like being able to do [% object.method() %]
12:59 nothingmuch i think HTML::Template and Petal both satisfy that requirement
12:59 nothingmuch in petal that is also allowed, which is why i prefer it to HTML::Template
12:59 stevan I would go with HTML::Template it is more common
12:59 rootmj has joined #perl6
12:59 nothingmuch in general it is more forgiving of OOP design
12:59 nothingmuch okie dokies
12:59 stevan and still very usable (just more work on the perl side)
13:00 stevan this is for the Test::TAP::Madness::* module?
13:00 castaway Text::Template++ :)
13:00 nothingmuch Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix will be a gutted testgraph.pl
13:00 bradb has quit IRC ("=> office")
13:00 * stevan just finished his first cup of coffee and the backlog :)
13:00 nothingmuch insert ::Visualize in there
13:00 * shapr writes Madness::Cthulhu
13:01 stevan stevan queues up Madness::One::Step::Beyond
13:01 * shapr grins
13:01 kungfuftr nothingmuch: TT++
13:01 nothingmuch Object::Meta::Plugin
13:01 stevan nothingmuch: in answer to your age query,.. I am 31 (soon to be 32)
13:01 nothingmuch kungfuftr: yeah, i rather like it too, but it has a 30 minute learning curve. i want a 5 minute one.
13:01 stevan nothingmuch: I dont know if I agree witht hat
13:02 stevan I saw TT and it made immediate sense
13:02 castaway stevan, how soon? :)
13:02 stevan (on the template side that is)
13:02 stevan castaway: Aug 12th
13:02 kungfuftr you may not need those stupidly advanced things now, but further down the line you will and when that happends it's a huge extra cost to have to either hack it into Petal (etc) or move everything to TT
13:02 castaway damn :)
13:02 * stevan hopes he is the oldest
13:02 castaway nope, missed by a month
13:02 ninereasons pdcawley reported lots of tests failing without 'make optimized', stevan ..
13:02 nothingmuch splash? wtf? MOMMMY!)
13:02 ninereasons pdcawley Tests are failing here 'Cannot cast from VRef <Scalar> to [Char]' looks common...
13:02 nothingmuch it's also a beast to install
13:02 nothingmuch (what?! XS? DBI? /usr/share/WHAT?!
13:02 shapr oldest what?
13:02 nothingmuch #perl6 lurker
13:03 stevan ninereasons: I got that too
13:03 shapr I'm 33
13:03 shapr 1971
13:03 * castaway blinks
13:03 stevan DOH!!! the geezer from sweden beat us
13:03 * shapr grins
13:03 castaway darn :)
13:03 Steve_p Geezer???
13:03 stevan castaway: it does explain why he is so wise
13:03 shapr haha
13:03 castaway stevan umm.. :)
13:04 castaway but not the bouncy bits :)
13:04 stevan Steve_p: can you beat shapr's 33?
13:04 * ninereasons is childlike in perl; at 48
13:04 shapr w00
13:04 castaway ooh
13:04 Steve_p Actually, no, I can't
13:04 stevan 48, 48,... so I hear a 50?
13:04 * stevan sometimes feels like his is 50 after chasing the kids all day
13:04 Steve_p 1971 is the perfect year
13:05 shapr Steve_p: which month?
13:05 chihchun has quit IRC ("Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5")
13:05 stevan Steve_p: I prefer 73 myself :)
13:05 kungfuftr 83!
13:05 Steve_p Wait a second, yes I can beat 33
13:05 Steve_p (old age) -- # ;)
13:05 Steve_p shapr, January
13:05 shapr Ah yes, I'm September.
13:05 stevan kungfuftr: I remember '83,.. those were the days,..
13:05 castaway September++
13:06 stevan got my first pair of Fat Laces
13:06 castaway right, stevan :)
13:06 shapr I got on the internet in the 80s
13:06 * nothingmuch 's parents didn't even meet in 83
13:06 * stevan puts on Melli-Mels "The Message"
13:07 stevan shapr: how could you? Al Gore didnt invent it until the early 90s
13:07 mdiep has joined #perl6
13:07 nothingmuch hah
13:08 stevan nothingmuch: I need to get you those Mingus MP3s
13:09 nothingmuch indeed
13:09 stevan you can't play Jazz bass without listening to them
13:09 nothingmuch don't worry, i like chambers
13:09 nothingmuch and i like doug watkins
13:09 nothingmuch i'm missing a lot
13:09 nothingmuch but i have some education, still ;-)
13:09 stevan John Coltrane - A Love Supreme ++
13:10 shapr I like John Lee Hooker, Jimi Hendrix.
13:10 nothingmuch don't have that either
13:10 shapr and Led Zeppelin, of course.
13:10 stevan shapr: I got some nice Robert Johnson MP3s recently too
13:10 nothingmuch stevan, shapr if you don't have any concienceous objections, should i start a bt tracker for us?
13:10 stevan and some early Woody Guthrie commie/union stuff
13:11 shapr I don't do copyright stuff, if that's what you mean by conscientous objections.
13:11 ninereasons and Raaaay Charles
13:11 * nothingmuch normally does that, and then buys it if he's still listening after a short while
13:11 shapr I just don't do it at all, and I encourage others to do the same.
13:11 stevan nothingmuch: me too,.. MP3s are only so good quality wise
13:11 shapr Because, the current laws are waaaay stupid.
13:12 stevan nothingmuch: I have no objections either
13:12 rindolf ninereasons: Hit the Road Jack, and don't you come back, no more, no more, no more, no more.
13:12 shapr And the only way they'll get fixed is by killing off the Media Mafia.
13:12 stevan shapr: you need only look at many of the 80s-90s hip hop artists to see how wrong the system is
13:12 shapr I agree
13:12 nothingmuch anyway, i'll do that bt thing, and who ever wants the cops at their door can join it =)
13:12 stevan (although that no longer applies now)
13:13 stevan nothingmuch: in the words of Ice Cube, Dr. Dre and all of NWA ..... F*ck dah Police
13:13 nothingmuch fsck /dev/pig
13:13 ninereasons rindolf, Well I'm through with you, too bad you're blue I said move on, I said move on
13:13 nothingmuch bwahaha
13:13 nothingmuch damn, i'm so lame
13:14 stevan nothingmuch++
13:14 nothingmuch anyway, back to work
13:15 masak has joined #perl6
13:18 stevan I am still getting errors with plain 'make'
13:18 simcop2387 has quit IRC (Nick collision from services.)
13:18 simcop2387 has joined #perl6
13:18 * stevan goes back to 'make optimized'
13:20 * kungfuftr needs a faster box
13:24 rob__ has joined #perl6
13:24 shapr rob__: are you rob nagler?
13:25 rob__ shapr: actually im not mr. nagler :)
13:25 kungfuftr assign.t is hanging
13:25 shapr ok, whew.
13:26 shapr I can skip the flaming then.
13:26 rob__ heh
13:26 kungfuftr on test 2... odd
13:28 kungfuftr bah... meetings to go to
13:32 masak shapr: now that pugs supports multidimensional data structures, what do you think is the feasibility of writing a board game in it?
13:33 shapr err
13:33 stevan masak: you might want to start with Tic-Tac-Toe first
13:34 masak :) good idea
13:34 shapr Who elected me clueful? =)
13:34 stevan Pugs still consumes a lot of memory and CPU at times
13:35 masak shapr: you and autrijus are the only ones i know in here :)
13:35 shapr Oh, ok then.
13:35 stevan masak: now you know me too :)
13:36 masak stevan: yes, hello :)
13:36 stevan hello masak nice to meet you :)
13:37 masak i'm the stereotype minimal committer. i have committed six lines of test code in t/subroutines/sub_named_params.t
13:38 stevan masak: anything is something :)
13:38 masak true :)
13:38 masak i'm not sure how to become more involved, short of reading up on haskell
13:38 masak and i have little time, otherwise i would do this full time
13:39 bradb has joined #perl6
13:39 stevan masak: but you help when  you have time... me I am in between projects so I have time to spare
13:40 stevan but when my next project starts (in a week or so) my commit rate will go down
13:40 stevan the ebb and flow of OSS :)
13:40 masak sometimes i wish i was out of a work so i could do this all day
13:40 masak living on air, coding pugs
13:41 stevan masak++ # prefering unemployment
13:41 castaway if only..
13:42 cognominal masak: I am going thru http://www.haskell.org/tutorial/. It is a good tutorial
13:43 stevan masak: shapr's HaskellDemo is nice too http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HaskellDemo
13:43 * shapr cheers
13:43 stevan shapr: I added it to READTHEM as well
13:43 shapr spiffy!
13:45 masak cognominal & stevan: thx
13:47 ninereasons pugs> my ($foo, $bar) = ('FOO', 'BAR');
13:47 ninereasons ({ref:<Scalar>}, {ref:<Scalar>})
13:47 autrijus greetings!
13:47 nothingmuch in p5, is an assignment an lvalue?
13:48 autrijus yes, an assignment is an lvalue.
13:48 nothingmuch i.e., can i say ($foo ||= '') .= "blah"?
13:48 autrijus yes.
13:48 nothingmuch autrijus++
13:48 clkao hi autrijus
13:48 autrijus hey clkao.
13:49 masak hi autrijus
13:49 stevan autrijus: good morning/afternoon/evening
13:49 autrijus hey stevan. lots and lots of core changes.
13:49 jabbot pugs - 1873 - * removed pretty much all vCast from Pri
13:50 shapr yay
13:50 * stevan stops his build and runs svn up
13:50 * pdcawley does the same.
13:50 * shapr does that too!
13:50 nothingmuch darcs get http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-Model
13:50 shapr peer pressure!
13:50 autrijus heh... I'm not done yet :)
13:50 stevan autrijus: should I update the changelog again,.. or is more to come?
13:51 pdcawley Have we got objects yet?
13:51 autrijus stevan: you should update the changelog again... all my work currently is getting the lvalue model in
13:51 autrijus pdcawley: you have ref() and isa() and MMD, so yes
13:51 autrijus but you don't have classes ;)
13:51 nothingmuch pdcawley: sort of... they're basic infastructure
13:51 nothingmuch their
13:51 stevan autrijus: sounds good
13:51 pdcawley Right, so if I'm going to do the 'minilisp in perl6 on haskell' thing, then I need to write it in a functional styly for now?
13:52 stevan pdcawley: yes
13:52 stevan pdcawley: there is some 'functional'-style stuff in examples/
13:52 nothingmuch pdcawley: yep
13:52 nothingmuch but wait a week ;-)
13:52 pdcawley Why? You're doing it already?
13:52 autrijus pdcawley: however basic class support is real soon now. I think by the end of this month :)
13:52 pdcawley Or we'll have objects by then?
13:53 nothingmuch pdcawley: not me, but autrijus
13:53 nothingmuch maybe me if i have more time, but i doubt that will make a diff
13:53 pdcawley I think if I can get my data structures and functions designed effectively, the conversion to an OO implementation should be straightforward.
13:54 stevan wow... over 30 commits since I went to bed last night (only 8 hours ago)
13:54 pdcawley However, a 'call_with_current_continuation' type thing, exposed at the language level wouldn't suck...
13:54 stevan pdcawley: t/unspeced/cont.t
13:54 pdcawley Ooh...
13:54 stevan (I think that is what you want)
13:55 autrijus there's also &sub.goto
13:55 pdcawley Want more than escape continuations.
13:55 autrijus you can have full continuations iff you can get larry to spec them.
13:55 autrijus :)
13:55 autrijus @larry, that is
13:55 pdcawley Dang.
13:55 stevan pdcawley: and t/subroutine/curry.t (more functional stuff)
13:56 osfameron why is larry now @larry ?
13:56 autrijus osfameron: design team
13:56 stevan autrijus: I think ingy is planning on arm wrestling larry re: POD
13:56 autrijus cool
13:56 osfameron autrijus: aha, thanks
13:56 stevan autrijus: you can challange him with the CPAN drinking game
13:56 nothingmuch stevan: is that a good thing or a bad thing?
13:56 * nothingmuch thinks it's a good thing
13:56 nothingmuch design team needs shaking up IMHO
13:57 stevan nothingmuch: we just all need to watch out for the blue ice cubes,...
13:57 nothingmuch and the anarchistic approach of "just do it instead of them and see what they say" seems to be the sportiest way
13:58 ninereasons t/operators/assign.t still hangs for me
13:58 stevan ninereasons: yeah me too (with make optimized that is)
13:59 ninereasons still {ref:<Scalar>})
13:59 ninereasons my $a = 'FOO'
13:59 ninereasons 'FOO'
13:59 ninereasons my ($a) = 'FOO'
13:59 ninereasons ({ref:<Scalar>})
14:00 ninereasons that's why the swap hangs, I suppose.
14:00 ninereasons recursive references
14:02 gaal btw if anyone is looking to write tests but doesn't knwo which, there's plenty to do in goto.t
14:03 Steve_p My guess is that there is refactoring to be done on just about any of the test files
14:03 stevan Steve_p: dont you know it :)
14:04 stevan I did some cleaning last night, but it was far from sufficient
14:05 ninereasons frankly, it was awesome, stevan; but I'm sure you're right that there's more to do.
14:05 stevan ninereasons: thank you,.. but what I saw along the way,.. oh the horror,.. the horror :)
14:06 mdiep has left
14:06 * ninereasons wraps a blanket over shocked and trembling stevan
14:06 autrijus I'm fixing infinite loop
14:06 gaal stevan, any particular things you want us to work on?
14:07 gaal lol, nothingmuch++ "# FIXME - the whole Test::Harness::Straps model can be figured out from this"
14:07 stevan gaal: hmmm, anything listed in t/force_todo would be a good place
14:08 gaal i mean, you mentioned refactoring
14:08 nothingmuch shit, i dropped my eraser in my coffee
14:08 stevan some of those are broken, and some are missing Pugs features, and still others are just messy
14:08 shapr nothingmuch: might taste better
14:08 gaal congratulations, you now have decaf
14:08 nothingmuch shapr: actually i was done with it 5-6 hrs ago
14:09 nothingmuch but it's turkish crap, with the gunk on the bottom
14:09 stevan yummy
14:09 nothingmuch just deep enough for it to be completely submersed
14:09 shapr I don't think that piece of plastic will erase marks anymore.
14:09 stevan turkish coffee marinated erasers
14:09 Aankhen`` Do multidimensional structures work?
14:09 Aankhen`` Data structures, even.
14:10 nothingmuch Aankhen``: you mean by ref?
14:10 nothingmuch or like 'my @array is shape()'?
14:10 Aankhen`` By ref, I guess, e.g. my @array = ([1, 2, 3], [3, 2, 1]);
14:11 nothingmuch my pugs is not compiled right now, so i can't sya
14:11 nothingmuch but i am 90% sure that yes
14:12 stevan Aankhen``: that should work now (assuming you can compile)
14:12 jhorwitz has joined #perl6
14:14 Aankhen`` Ah.
14:14 Aankhen`` Since which revision?
14:14 Aankhen`` I compiled 1853.
14:15 Aankhen`` It simply flattened the AoA (both references, BTW) in builtins/strings/length.t.
14:16 Aankhen`` BBIAB.
14:16 stevan Aankhen``: svn up because we are now on 1873
14:17 autrijus infinite loop fixed.
14:17 autrijus about to commit ---
14:17 autrijus but I'm not sure of the logic in monads.hs line 232 at all.
14:18 stevan autrijus: I updated the ChangeLog (its now 70 lines long)
14:18 nothingmuch . o O ( aquaaariiuuuuss! )
14:18 gaal is the moon in the 7th house?
14:18 ninereasons Aankhen``,  r1835 has ({ref:<Scalar::Const>}, {ref:<Scalar::Const>})
14:18 ninereasons r1865 has ({ref:<Array>}, {ref:<Array>})
14:18 nothingmuch *horn sounds*
14:18 nothingmuch gaal: when?
14:19 gaal now. is it?
14:19 ninereasons svn up should cure your problem, Aankhen``
14:19 nothingmuch no clue
14:19 nothingmuch where is jupiter?
14:19 gaal dunno. aligned with mars?
14:19 nothingmuch no peace, though, to guard the planet
14:19 autrijus r1875.
14:20 jabbot pugs - 1874 - more ChangeLog additions
14:20 jabbot pugs - 1875 - * new context propagation logic to disti
14:20 cognominal ". o O ( aquaaariiuuuuss! )": nothingmuch betrays his age
14:20 nothingmuch cognominal: beh. I like duke ellignton's stuff, where the horns sound like electric guitars
14:20 nothingmuch age has nothing to do with it, good education does ;-)
14:20 cognominal :)
14:21 * nothingmuch had, musically speaking, very good parents and friends
14:21 stevan cognominal: he got it from his grandmothers record collection :)
14:21 nothingmuch not only musical edu, actually. Mom said to me once 'did you ever watch hair? it's a good movie'
14:22 nothingmuch and dad took me to see Forman's guard changing parade thing in prague, because he thought i might appreciate it
14:24 ninereasons yay.  works for me, autrijus
14:28 autrijus woot.
14:29 ninereasons i wish I could get these plugins installed on freebsd 4.11.  It bugs me.
14:29 metaperl has joined #perl6
14:29 jabbot pugs - 1876 - * bad casting for "Any".
14:39 mtve has joined #perl6
14:39 * nothingmuch is invisible
14:39 autrijus hey mtve.
14:39 autrijus whew. assign.t all passes!
14:39 autrijus which means we have a rather sane semantics now
14:39 jabbot pugs - 1877 - * assign.t all passes, including weird o
14:40 Steve_p heh
14:41 * autrijus runs another round of tests
14:41 autrijus ok. now I think I have time to look at SHA1...
14:43 castaway yay :)
14:43 nothingmuch does anybody have 10 minutes of sisyphic work time to donate?
14:43 shapr to what?
14:43 nothingmuch Test::TAP::Model
14:46 Steve_p I can take a look at it in a couple hours.  What's needed?
14:46 nothingmuch test coverage
14:47 nothingmuch :w
14:47 nothingmuch damn
14:47 nothingmuch and lots of predicates
14:47 nothingmuch for convenience
14:47 nothingmuch the coverage is really for these
14:47 Steve_p predicates?
14:47 nothingmuch i have an object:
14:47 autrijus ok. can someone run another round of test for r1878 and post url?
14:47 nothingmuch Test::TAP::Model::File
14:48 autrijus I need my laptop's cpu power for hs-plugins :)
14:48 nothingmuch it wraps around the hash structure in Test::TAP::Model
14:48 nothingmuch and gives you convenience methods
14:48 nothingmuch $t->passed_tests
14:48 nothingmuch $t->bailed_out
14:48 nothingmuch etc
14:48 nothingmuch autrijus: will be ready in 10 mins
14:48 autrijus danke
14:48 co3 has quit IRC ("bye")
14:48 nothingmuch or whatever it takes for the cycle
14:49 ingy has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
14:49 Forth_ has joined #perl6
14:50 jabbot pugs - 1878 - * restore join() to sanity.
14:50 Steve_p OK, I'll take a look at it
14:50 nothingmuch Could not find module `Plugins':
14:50 nothingmuch  use -v to see a list of the files searched for
14:50 nothingmuch  (imported from src/External/Haskell.hs)
14:50 nothingmuch make: *** [optimized] Error 1
14:50 nothingmuch Steve_p: i'll submit my progress as soon
14:50 autrijus the probing is still bad?
14:50 autrijus omg.
14:51 nothingmuch this is after make purge
14:52 autrijus I'll take over ;)
14:52 nothingmuch ssh to eris
14:52 nothingmuch i'll chown /usr/local/src/pugs
14:52 autrijus please svn up
14:52 autrijus perl Makefile.PL
14:52 autrijus and try agian
14:52 autrijus see if r1879 works
14:52 Steve_p Where is Test::TAP::Model hiding?
14:52 nothingmuch Steve_p: darcs get http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-Model
14:52 nothingmuch i have yet to submit the File.pm file
14:53 nothingmuch ok, seems to work
14:55 pitecus has joined #perl6
14:57 jhorwitz autrijus: any progress on the parrot backend lately?
14:57 autrijus hey jhorwitz!
14:57 * jhorwitz emerges from lurking
14:57 autrijus jhorwitz: nope. the priority is to get 6.2 out of door
14:57 autrijus then write PA02
14:57 autrijus then PugsIMC
14:58 jhorwitz more time for me to grok haskell...
14:59 autrijus :D
14:59 jabbot pugs - 1879 - * brutal way to check hs-plugins
15:00 castaway brutal++ :)
15:00 pdcawley Mmm... brutality!
15:01 Steve_p Anyone here get darcs to compile with GHC-6.4
15:01 autrijus Steve_p: it seems to be a known no-go
15:01 nothingmuch Steve_p: not me. Be cheap and get a binary
15:01 nothingmuch or just wget -r,
15:02 * castaway gets inline haskell disabled (but then I did before too)
15:05 saorge has joined #perl6
15:05 autrijus require_haskell "/usr/local/lib/perl6/site_perl/mach/SHA1__0_0_1.o"
15:05 autrijus pugs: /usr/local/lib/perl6/site_perl/mach/SHA1__0_0_1.o: unknown symbol `SHA1_sha1_closure'
15:05 autrijus ok, I get that far.
15:05 autrijus Internal error while running expression:
15:05 autrijus resolveObjs failed with <<False>>
15:05 * autrijus fixing
15:06 rob__ has quit IRC ("leaving")
15:09 nothingmuch Steve_p: OK, File.pm added
15:09 jabbot pugs - 1880 - remove obsolete comment
15:10 nothingmuch I'll write Test::TAP::Model::Subtest now, and then refactor ::File to use that for extraction
15:10 Steve_p nothingmuch, got it :)
15:11 rob__ has joined #perl6
15:11 nothingmuch thanks
15:12 rindolf Everybody join #perl! We're 15 people short of having 400 participants.
15:12 rindolf 14
15:13 nothingmuch rindolf--; # beh, this is so pointless
15:13 rindolf nothingmuch: I was joking.
15:13 rindolf perlbot karma rindolf
15:13 perlbot Karma for rindolf: 2
15:14 pdcawley rindolf--
15:14 pdcawley rindolf--
15:14 Steve_p rindolf--
15:14 pdcawley Because neutral is good.
15:14 pdcawley Dang.
15:14 pdcawley rindolf++
15:14 nothingmuch oh my
15:14 pdcawley karma rindolf?
15:14 jabbot pdcawley: rindolf? has neutral karma
15:14 nothingmuch rindolf: you can ++ yourself ;-)
15:14 rindolf pdcawley: thanks
15:14 nothingmuch (j/k)
15:15 autrijus require_haskell works.
15:15 rindolf perlbot karma rindolf
15:15 perlbot rindolf doesn't have any karma
15:15 autrijus cleaning up and about to commit.
15:15 pdcawley perlbot karma pdcawley
15:15 perlbot pdcawley doesn't have any karma
15:15 rindolf pdcawley++
15:15 nothingmuch btw, autrijus , make test didn't finish yet
15:15 autrijus nothingmuch: is it looping?
15:15 nothingmuch oh my, were having a karma orgy
15:15 nothingmuch t/data_types/hash_ref.t <-- loopy?
15:15 nothingmuch if yes, then I guess that yes
15:15 nothingmuch i've been looking at it for 30 seconds
15:15 nothingmuch no change
15:16 autrijus aw :-/
15:16 autrijus looks yes.
15:16 autrijus terribly sorry. :(((
15:16 autrijus fixing
15:16 nothingmuch karma sutra
15:16 jabbot nothingmuch: sutra has neutral karma
15:16 nothingmuch autrijus: you can ssh to eris to debug this stuff
15:16 * castaway wonders what autrijus did, and how it "works"
15:17 shapr Hail Eris!
15:17 rindolf nothingmuch: I won't like you anymore unless you bump my karma.
15:17 nothingmuch rindolf: why?
15:17 * rindolf is kidding
15:18 rindolf 10 people short of 400
15:18 nothingmuch with you it's always very hard to understand
15:18 nothingmuch normally to imply cynical tone people either exaggerate wildly, or stick in a bunch of ';-)' '=P' or ':)'s
15:18 nothingmuch with all your proper punctuation and stuff
15:19 autrijus I like proper punctuation. ;-) =P :)
15:19 Aankhen`` Heh.
15:19 rindolf autrijus++
15:19 Aankhen`` Everyone has a poker face on IRC.
15:19 Aankhen`` :-| <--- my poker face.
15:19 autrijus do I get to be the joker?
15:19 pdcawley UWTLS?
15:19 jabbot pugs - 1881 - * require_haskell now runs... more work
15:20 ninereasons sorry, autrijus.  the king cannot be the joker.
15:20 * pdcawley realises that if he doesn't keep up with p6l he's not going to have a clue what most of it means.
15:20 autrijus "unless we take Luke's suggestion."
15:20 nothingmuch two hundred and fifty six!
15:21 pdcawley So EIWTLS is 'Even if we take...'
15:21 rindolf Why aren't we using CIA as a commit bot?
15:22 autrijus howto?
15:22 nothingmuch because pugs is not yet tracked by CIA
15:22 nothingmuch if you
15:22 nothingmuch if you have the know how to make it work, i reckon we'll all be pleased =)
15:22 autrijus yup.
15:23 rindolf nothingmuch: http://cia.navi.cx/doc/adding-projects
15:24 nothingmuch you're welcome to do it, i don't have the tuits to mess with stuff like that
15:24 nothingmuch or rather, i do
15:24 nothingmuch but i have higher priority things to fill up this time
15:24 machack666 has joined #perl6
15:25 rindolf nothingmuch: I think I need access to the physical repository.
15:26 nothingmuch if you need dirty work, like adding hooks, autrijus can probably help
15:26 nothingmuch if you need regular commit access, that's not an issue
15:26 nothingmuch if you tell me what to do i'll do that
15:26 nothingmuch but if it involves signing up/making decisions/communicating i'd rather write the code i'm working on right now
15:27 nothingmuch because the test graphing has been waiting for refactoring a long while, and i finally have an excuse to do it while at work
15:27 rindolf nothingmuch: I think I need to setup a hook.
15:27 nothingmuch i don't know how openfoundry manages this stuff
15:27 nothingmuch i have admin access, but i'm not 100%
15:27 autrijus rindolf: post the details on setting up svn hook on some url?
15:27 nothingmuch i'm not a subversion user, so i don't know what i can do
15:27 autrijus rindolf: I'll redirect foundry people to it.
15:27 nothingmuch 100% sure i can do it
15:28 rindolf autrijus: they're in the URL I pointed you to.
15:28 autrijus ah. I missed that link.
15:28 rindolf autrijus: http://cia.navi.cx/doc/adding-projects
15:29 rindolf And then the whole world and his mother will see the Pugs commits on #commits
15:29 machack666 hey all, is there a rev that builds all tests on Mac OS X?  There was one that was close last nght (<60 tests failing), but now it looks like there are a lot more failing again (mostly to do with vCast, looks like)
15:29 rgs that'll double the traffic on #commits.
15:30 nothingmuch machack666: you can try before itypes
15:30 jabbot pugs - 1882 - Updated listification syntax for strings
15:30 nothingmuch but right now tests are hanging
15:30 nothingmuch autrijus: are you going to use eris, or can i keep it in the smoke loop?
15:30 machack666 thanks, nm -- anything I can help with?
15:30 autrijus nothingmuch: I'm not going to use eris; I'm almost getting the hanging fixed
15:30 nothingmuch machack666: errm, not that I know how to tell you to help
15:31 nothingmuch in general i can help
15:31 nothingmuch but not specifically
15:31 nothingmuch i can tell you: write tests
15:31 machack666 ok -- I'll just wait on bated breath.  :)
15:31 nothingmuch but that's about it ;-)
15:34 autrijus machack666: examples/cookbook/ needs help :)
15:34 machack666 i'll take a looksie.
15:36 machack666 yes, it is fairly spartan.
15:37 machack666 is the idea to only translate when there is a distinction between the P6 and P5 solutions?
15:39 nothingmuch i think so
15:40 nothingmuch but i think it would be nice to translate to "good" perl6 where applicable
15:40 nothingmuch otherwise p6 might look just like p5 with a funnier syntax
15:40 autrijus yeah.
15:40 nothingmuch i.e., zip, junctions, hyper ops - these should really shine in cookbook examples
15:40 mj41 So. How to translate this to perl6?
15:40 mj41 foreach my $tut_num ( 0..$#$index ) {
15:40 mj41    $prev_tut_fn = $tut_fn;
15:40 mj41    $tut_fn = $index[ $tut_num ];
15:40 mj41    if ( $tut_num+1 <= $#$index ) {   $next_tut_fn = $index[ $tut_num + 1 ];   } else {   $next_tut_fn = undef;   }
15:40 ninereasons go, go, nothingmuch  preach
15:41 autrijus infloop fixed.
15:41 autrijus I think.
15:42 nothingmuch autrijus: do you know if there is an $?ITER var?
15:42 nothingmuch i resort to many 'my $i; for (@_){ $i++; ... }' things in p5
15:42 nothingmuch i don't like that
15:42 nothingmuch i think it's useful enough that we can subvert p6l
15:42 nothingmuch in which case this will look like:
15:42 autrijus r1884
15:42 nothingmuch for $tut_num (@index) {
15:43 nothingmuch no
15:43 nothingmuch acki
15:43 machack666 nothingmuch: wasn't there a discussion about for @ar.kv?
15:43 autrijus eh. you do
15:43 nothingmuch for $tut_num (0 .. @index.elems - 2){
15:43 autrijus for @index.kv { ... }
15:44 autrijus that even works now
15:44 nothingmuch ah, that's cool
15:44 nothingmuch ok, so
15:44 nothingmuch for @index.kv -> ($index, $value) ?
15:44 Ovid has joined #perl6
15:44 nothingmuch or do you need to take the pair apart in the loop?
15:44 autrijus for @index.kv -> $idx, $val { ... }
15:44 nothingmuch ok
15:44 autrijus or, implicitly
15:44 autrijus for @index.kv -> { say "$^i: $^x" }
15:45 nothingmuch $^key, $^value; # they sort ok ;-)
15:45 autrijus yeah, isn't the alphabets great.
15:45 autrijus nothingmuch: can you run another round of smokes?
15:45 autrijus I'm pretty confident it's not looping now
15:45 nothingmuch running
15:45 co3 has joined #perl6
15:46 nothingmuch i think we should be really nasty with this one though
15:47 nothingmuch for (@index[0 .. @index.elems - 2] ¥ @index[1...]) {
15:47 nothingmuch ....
15:47 nothingmuch }
15:47 nothingmuch maybe the subscript slices can be niftier?
15:47 nothingmuch $^a is tut
15:47 nothingmuch $^b is next
15:48 nothingmuch what does the rest of the loop look like?
15:48 ninereasons with parens, is the -> arrow is not necessary for implicit vars; isn't that right?
15:48 nothingmuch i prefer $^former and $^latter
15:48 nothingmuch =)
15:48 nothingmuch i think it shouldn't be
15:48 nothingmuch but i have no clue
15:49 PerlJam -> is not needed for $^foo
15:49 machack666 if infinite slices do the right thing, does for (@index[0..Inf -2]) do the right thing as well?
15:49 nothingmuch can you say 'for (@index[0 .. -2] ¥ @index[1...]) {'?
15:49 PerlJam they are completely orthogonal.
15:49 nothingmuch machack666: i'm not 100% sure, we had a discussion on that
15:49 nothingmuch on 0 .. -2 doing the right thing
15:49 nothingmuch that is, really meaning 0 .. @index.elems
15:49 PerlJam machack666: I would think not.
15:50 jabbot pugs - 1883 - * hash_ref infinite loop fixed.
15:50 jabbot pugs - 1884 - * do not allow storing into constant has
15:50 PerlJam nothingmuch: same to you.
15:50 nothingmuch but i think 0 .. Inf does not mean 0 .. @index.elems
15:50 nothingmuch i don't remember what the conclusions were
15:50 machack666 it seems like there could be a handy shorthand for that
15:50 PerlJam nothingmuch: it does.
15:50 PerlJam well, it *can*
15:50 nothingmuch PerlJam: sorry, that came out stupid
15:50 nothingmuch i think it does not mean that syntatically
15:50 nothingmuch the consequences are the same
15:50 nothingmuch but Inf -2 is Inf, not @index.elems -2
15:51 nothingmuch woah, idea:
15:51 machack666 but only if - binds tighter than Inf
15:51 machack666 :)
15:51 nothingmuch @array![-2, -1]
15:51 theorbtwo Hm, if Inf-2 became Inf but something-2.
15:51 nothingmuch negated subscripts
15:51 nothingmuch or maybe [^ ]
15:51 theorbtwo Er, something<-2>
15:51 PerlJam nothingmuch: yeah, I thought of that too just now (I'd use ! but in a different place)
15:52 machack666 or something<..-2> : Inf from the other direction!
15:52 nothingmuch you mean @array[!-2]?
15:52 PerlJam nothingmuch: yep
15:52 integral Perhaps a smaller infinity that really is only as big as the thing indexed?   So Inf-2 = Inf, LittleInf-2 = @whatever.elems-2
15:52 nothingmuch that is i-2 is '-2 but false'?
15:52 nothingmuch that's nice
15:52 nothingmuch i prefer yours, it's much more flexible
15:52 nothingmuch but then we'd have to include set operations on subscripts
15:52 nothingmuch and make them high order objects
15:52 nothingmuch (which i wouldn't mind, really, they should be very useful)
15:53 nothingmuch i'll write to P6l
15:53 autrijus $ ./pugs -e "require_haskell 'SHA1__0_0_1.o'; say sha1('')"
15:53 autrijus da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709
15:53 theorbtwo Yey!
15:53 justatheory has joined #perl6
15:54 integral autrijus++
15:54 autrijus theorbtwo++
15:54 autrijus dons++
15:54 rindolf autrijus: what about me?
15:54 autrijus now, to go from here to "require SHA1;"
15:54 Khisanth that is with the plugins?
15:54 autrijus Khisanth: yes, with hs-plugins
15:54 autrijus you can grab http://tpe.freepan.org/repos/ingy/SHA1/
15:54 autrijus install pugs, install that
15:54 Khisanth the 0_0 looks funny :)
15:54 autrijus and voila.
15:54 autrijus it will go away :)
15:54 autrijus it's version number.
15:55 Khisanth hrm it's a .o not a .so?
15:55 theorbtwo Don't we need it to support multiple installed versions of the same module?
15:55 autrijus we do
15:55 autrijus it will go away from the syntax.
15:55 autrijus not from the filesystem.
15:55 autrijus "require SHA1" needs to figure out which .o
15:55 theorbtwo (For that matter, shouldn't there be an "INGY" in there somewhere.)
15:55 theorbtwo Ah.
15:55 autrijus ingy++ # too
15:56 theorbtwo Ah!
15:56 theorbtwo The '&':name is what was missing.
15:56 autrijus yup.
15:57 autrijus entirely my fault.
15:57 autrijus also you need to point getConfig to it.
15:57 autrijus so it knows archlib etc.
15:57 autrijus also I instrumented Perl6::MakeMaker to install things from src/.
15:57 autrijus it should go to package-specifc dirs later.
15:57 autrijus but now I don't care :)
15:58 theorbtwo OK.
15:59 nothingmuch machack666: so what does the rest of that recipe look like?
15:59 jabbot pugs - 1885 - * require_haskell Really Works.
16:01 nothingmuch PerlJam: Message-ID: <20050412155829.GB25240@woobling.org>
16:02 nothingmuch autrijus: assign.t seems to hang
16:02 ninereasons which version, nothingmuch?  after 1880 ?
16:02 nothingmuch 1884
16:03 autrijus gah, it hangs _again_ ?
16:03 autrijus sorry :-(
16:03 autrijus gimme a sec.
16:03 nothingmuch yup
16:03 nothingmuch ssh eris
16:03 nothingmuch you know you want to
16:03 nothingmuch because I have to go home
16:04 autrijus okie.
16:04 nothingmuch i've setgid everything to my group, and chmodded so i have write, so we should be able to get along as long as your umask is sane
16:05 mj41 @a.elems-1 == @a.last_or_something_like ?
16:05 autrijus danke. sorry for causing this much trouble
16:05 nothingmuch that is, insane
16:05 nothingmuch no trouble
16:05 nothingmuch i opened the shell account precisely for this purpose
16:05 nothingmuch machack666: ping
16:05 PerlJam nothingmuch: you know you're going to get back responses like @array[all(0..,none(-2,-1)).list]  (or whatever the syntax is to get a list of all of the values in a junction).
16:06 machack666 nothingmuch: mj41 was the guy with the recipe, I beieve
16:06 nothingmuch that sucks
16:06 nothingmuch ah
16:06 nothingmuch mj41: ping
16:06 nothingmuch ;-)
16:06 nothingmuch sorry machack666
16:06 mj41 for $a.kv -> $idx, $val {
16:06 mj41    if ( $idx > 0 ) { $prev = $a[$idx-1] } else { $prev = undef };
16:06 mj41    if ( $idx + 1 < $a.elems ) { $next = $a[$idx+1] } else { $next = undef };
16:06 mj41 }
16:06 nothingmuch where is the tut_num example coming from?
16:06 machack666 i'm too busy doing productive work, like getting utf-8 support working with emacs.  ;)
16:06 mj41 sorry
16:07 nothingmuch i'm not really sure exactly what it does
16:07 autrijus now, let's see if it works....
16:07 * autrijus crosses fingers
16:08 autrijus $ ./pugs -MSHA1 -e "say sha1('')"
16:08 autrijus da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709
16:08 autrijus yes! yes!
16:08 * nothingmuch crosses fingers too
16:08 nothingmuch autrijus++
16:08 nothingmuch mj41?
16:08 PerlJam autrijus: excellent!  You've laid the foundation for the SHA-NA-NA module!  ;-)
16:09 * PerlJam wonders if the humor is lost on this audience.
16:09 jabbot pugs - 1886 - * pugs -MSHA1 -e "say sha1('')"
16:10 theorbtwo s/NA/NaN/g
16:10 * theorbtwo got the reference after a bit.
16:10 PerlJam Perhaps I'm just an old american.
16:11 nothingmuch ha ha ha ha!
16:11 nothingmuch i was away for a second, i promise
16:11 nothingmuch *cough*
16:12 nothingmuch mj41: see nopaste
16:12 nothingmuch perlbot nop
16:12 nothingmuch perlbot nopaste
16:12 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
16:13 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 212.143.92.226 pasted "for loop, with $prev and $next" (6 lines, 146B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9269
16:13 nothingmuch err, the first subscript should be [email@hidden.address]
16:14 * nothingmuch leaves
16:14 nothingmuch has quit IRC ()
16:15 bradb is now known as bradb|out
16:18 mj41 $pugs.can(zip) ?
16:19 theorbtwo pugs -e "@foo=zip('a'..'f', 10..15); say @foo.perl"
16:19 stevan PerlJam: I got your reference, ... but 10 minutes late after reading the backlog :)
16:20 mj41 No compatible subroutine found: &zip
16:21 theorbtwo Hm?  I thought it worked...
16:21 stevan mj41: that doenst mean it is not there,.. it just means you didnt supply the right args
16:21 stevan t/builtins/list/zip.t
16:22 autrijus bad precedence for "zip"
16:22 autrijus someone wrote "left" where it should be "pre"
16:23 machack666 are here docs supported in pugs?
16:23 autrijus no.
16:24 machack666 which Synopsys talks about here docs?  a non-existant one?  ;)
16:24 machack666 i'm trying to translate some recipies and I know that at least the quoting mechanism has changed.  I'd like to find more info about where they can go, etc...
16:25 pasteling "mj41" at 147.229.221.107 pasted "array prev and next if defined, good enough?" (12 lines, 356B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9270
16:27 autrijus zip() is in.
16:27 autrijus machack666: qq:to
16:27 autrijus S02.
16:27 machack666 autrijus: thx
16:29 jabbot pugs - 1887 - * zip().
16:30 theorbtwo D'oh!  I forgot the -i on my grep.
16:32 autrijus now going back to fix assign.t loop...
16:33 gcom has left
16:33 autrijus theorbtwo: so, now mut rec is not a problem for us, I think I'll release 6.2.0 with mutrec
16:33 autrijus is "make optimized" still bad?
16:34 theorbtwo Sounds good to me, autrijus.
16:35 gcom has joined #perl6
16:36 stevan autrijus: trying make optimized right now
16:37 ninereasons S02 makes it sound like [email@hidden.address] is the literal equivalent of $#foo.  is that correct?
16:38 stevan hmm, so what would (0 .. Inf).end() do?
16:38 autrijus looks so
16:38 autrijus stevan: it will probably return Infinity after either constant time or nonconstant time.
16:39 jabbot pugs - 1888 - * deref scalar in value context.
16:39 jabbot pugs - 1889 - * oops, remove debug
16:40 ninereasons I don't understand what larry means by [email@hidden.address] or [-1]' ?
16:40 * theorbtwo grins.
16:40 autrijus it means that
16:40 theorbtwo I'd hope after constant time.
16:40 autrijus @foo[$#foo]
16:40 autrijus needs to written as @foo[-1].
16:40 autrijus hth.
16:41 autrijus stevan: I'm making a round of tests
16:41 autrijus I think we're good to preflight.
16:41 stevan autrijus: I am too (make optimized && make test)
16:42 autrijus wait -- lvalue zip?
16:42 autrijus whose idea is it? is it in the synopses?
16:43 stevan where do you see this?
16:43 autrijus zip.t
16:43 machack666 make && make test still has failures on mac os x...
16:43 autrijus failures is fine
16:43 autrijus infinite loop is not :)
16:44 * stevan needs to get more RAM,... make is getting slow
16:45 machack666 ok
16:45 machack666 do the pipe operators work yet?
16:46 autrijus no
16:46 Ovid has quit IRC ()
16:48 autrijus I think I see an infinite loop at t/pugsrun/06-dash-help
16:48 justatheory has quit IRC ()
16:48 autrijus sigh
16:53 machack666 hanging on operators/assign (1/51) mac os x w/ hs-plugins
16:53 hlafarge has joined #perl6
16:55 kungfuftr moo
16:55 autrijus machack666: probably not up to date
16:56 Corion has joined #perl6
16:57 * kungfuftr reruns smoke again
16:57 machack666 i think i'm using the alternate svn server.  is there a sync delay?
16:57 autrijus there is.
16:57 Corion http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html - r1887
16:57 autrijus please use svn.openfoundry.org one
16:58 gaal 1890?
16:58 machack666 i don't really know svn well -- how to change without rechecking?
16:58 iblech [t/operators/assign.t] -- 51/51 passes @r1890
16:58 Corion Hmmm. In abs.t - it checks for Int, but type Num is just as good IMO, or even better as a result of abs()
16:59 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
16:59 Corion Oh. But they mutate the type ... that's the bad thing about it, now I realize :)
16:59 nothingmuch evening
16:59 chady has joined #perl6
17:00 jabbot pugs - 1890 - * zip now uses length of longest; zip.t
17:01 Corion Eh... @INC.perl.say outputs "\('... " - what's the backslash doing there?
17:01 autrijus what's "boustrophedonic"?
17:01 autrijus Corion: it means that it's a reference to a list...
17:01 ninereasons maybe 'undef' behaves differently on win32 ?  assign.t is failing there on r1887, for Corion
17:02 nothingmuch http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-bou1.htm
17:02 Corion autrijus: Ah. Hmmm... which makes my reparsing test bork
17:02 nnunley has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
17:02 Corion ninereasons: It loops endlessly until I killed assign.t
17:02 cognominal An ancient mode of writing, in alternate directions, one line
17:02 cognominal   from left to right, and the next from right to left (as
17:02 cognominal   fields are plowed), as in early Greek and Hittite.
17:02 autrijus Corion: I think we can drop that... but then,
17:02 autrijus $foo = @INC; $foo.perl
17:02 autrijus will need the \
17:03 Corion autrijus: I don't mind changing my test :)
17:03 autrijus I don't think I can fix it right now
17:03 cognominal http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=45852
17:03 autrijus yay, please do :)
17:03 nothingmuch autrijus: did the tests pass on eris?
17:03 Corion Aiee - and somebody changed the option parsing :)
17:05 autrijus nothingmuch: had not rerun yet, still fixing bugs
17:05 Steve_p nopaste?
17:05 gaal autrijus: think printers
17:05 nothingmuch ok, i'm restarting the loop now
17:05 * autrijus thinks printers
17:05 gaal old printers
17:05 * nothingmuch makes noises
17:05 gaal that took a while to move the printing head
17:05 nothingmuch bzzzzzzzz, kashclick, bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, kashclick, bzzzzzzzz
17:06 nothingmuch ah!
17:06 gaal if it's already at one side, why rewind it before printing another line?
17:06 nothingmuch trrz trrz trrzz trzzz
17:06 nothingmuch (the old one was a very quick laser printer)
17:06 gaal no CR
17:06 gaal only LF
17:06 gaal these guys were the earliest unix users!
17:06 BigBear has quit IRC (Client Quit)
17:06 gaal or mac users, i can never remember.
17:07 nothingmuch gaal: join("\b\b", split(//, "other line");
17:07 nothingmuch ;-)
17:07 theorbtwo BTW, most modern inkjet printers print that way -- they just reverse every other line.
17:08 mj41 111 users
17:08 gaal so even modern printers are boustrophedonic. :)
17:08 nothingmuch mj41: so what does that example do?
17:09 jabbot pugs - 1891 - * split() should not strip leading field
17:09 jabbot pugs - 1892 - * length.t all passes; reenable io
17:10 Steve_p nothingmuch, --- Test-TAP-Model_0/t/basic.t  2005-04-12 10:12:01.939300464 -0500
17:10 Steve_p Crap!
17:10 Steve_p nothingmuch,  http://paste.husk.org/3001
17:10 gaal we actually have the word boustrophedonic in the pugs source tree.
17:10 Steve_p Test coverage for Test::TAP::Model at 100%
17:10 nothingmuch Steve_p: wants to darcs send?
17:10 nothingmuch yay!
17:11 nothingmuch Steve_p++; # amazing work on p5p, and also here
17:12 ninereasons Corion does >= r1890 still hang for you?
17:12 Corion ninereasons: Dunno - just fixing a test then resmoking
17:12 Juerd @print = @lines[0... :by(2)] Y @lines[1... :by(2)]>>.reverse
17:12 nothingmuch dinnertime
17:12 autrijus 06-dash-help no longer borks.
17:12 Juerd Except real life wants CRLF to stay at the end, and not be moved to /^LFCR/
17:12 nothingmuch Steve_p: if you darcs send by the time i'm back i won't apply, there's a conflict so far
17:13 nothingmuch so i'll merge in a bit
17:13 ninereasons i was able to find a backversion of r1887, and it did hang as you describe, also on freebsd
17:13 * autrijus looks some more at testgraph
17:13 wolverian Juerd: is p5 smart about that?
17:13 wolverian it is, apparently.
17:13 wolverian er, no it's not.
17:13 wolverian damn you reverse in list context.
17:15 Juerd wolverian: P5 doesn't have Y, P5 doesn't have ..Inf, P5 doesn't have :by, P5 doesn't have >> and it doesn't have a reverse method on arrays. What exactly is left to be smart about? :)
17:15 autrijus :D
17:15 autrijus Juerd++
17:15 wolverian Juerd: the CLRF :)
17:15 * Juerd only now realises how hard this same thing would be in Perl 5 :)
17:15 Juerd wolverian: Oh! :)
17:16 Juerd wolverian: Just autochomp and add it again when printing
17:16 Juerd Easiest solution :)
17:16 Juerd s/reverse method on arrays/reverse method on scalars/, though it has neither.
17:17 Juerd And of course, you want LF only, not CR
17:17 ninereasons is '@ARGS is chomped' still current, or was it abandoned?
17:17 Juerd CR kind of defeats the purpose here
17:18 machack666 dumb question: will infix:<Y> be an actual synonym for infix:<&yen;> ?
17:18 Juerd machack666: It already is.
17:18 chady has quit IRC ("bleh")
17:18 osfameron has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
17:19 machack666 unicode, schmunicode! ;)
17:19 jabbot pugs - 1893 - * any junctions must be reduced.
17:19 jabbot pugs - 1894 - Restored -I test due to @INC.perl.say re
17:20 * Khisanth wonders if Perl7 will have Z
17:20 * pjcj wonders if Perl7 will be Z
17:22 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
17:22 elmex has joined #perl6
17:23 * Steve_p is Z
17:23 * machack666 is going to digest some more on the synopses
17:23 machack666 bye all
17:23 workbench has joined #perl6
17:23 * hlen wonders what Y does
17:24 Juerd hlafarge: It is zip()
17:24 Juerd eh
17:24 Juerd s/hlafarge/hlen/
17:24 Corion My test smoke is still running, but didn't hang.
17:24 Corion r1894
17:24 hlen Juerd, ok.. thanks, i'll look into zip()
17:25 machack666 has quit IRC ("exit(0)")
17:25 gaal it's time to think of -j3 for make test/yaml_harness... a complete smoke is no longer very fast
17:25 * ninereasons found 'is chomped' in E02
17:25 Corion gaal: Was it ever? :)
17:25 Juerd hlen: See also http://juerd.nl/files/slides/2005dpw/en/perl6op.html for a very quick introduction
17:26 gaal wasn't too bad a month ago
17:26 hlen Juerd, ok, thanks again =)
17:27 pdcawley Woo... summary's written.
17:27 Corion r1894 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
17:28 Corion pdcawley++
17:28 Juerd pdcawley: Are you writing the p6[lci] summaries again now?
17:28 pdcawley Every other week.
17:28 Juerd Ah, good!
17:28 pdcawley Keeps the workload manageable for both Matt and me.
17:28 Juerd pdcawley++
17:28 pdcawley I know from experience that if you slip to fortnightly the work gets really, really, heavy.
17:29 nothingmuch gaal: i'll try to hack that into Test::TAP::Blah
17:29 Corion BTW, I get some unexpected successes - should I hunt them down and promote them ?
17:29 nothingmuch should be easy to do with forks, since the data is easily serializable
17:29 nothingmuch but i would like to do it in a subclass
17:29 Corion (given.t, sub_return_values.t, short_circuit.t)
17:30 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
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17:32 elmex has joined #perl6
17:32 elmex ack
17:34 autrijus I'll promote given.t.
17:34 * nothingmuch returns
17:34 autrijus you can do the rest
17:35 Corion autrijus: Sir, YES! Sir!
17:36 nothingmuch Steve_p: ping
17:36 nothingmuch Steve_ping
17:38 nothingmuch autrijus: 06-dash-version.t
17:38 nothingmuch hangs
17:39 gaal not on r1890/msys
17:39 * nothingmuch svn ups once more
17:39 Corion Weird - one "unexpected success" seems to be a Test.pm bug - it is reported as TODO, even though it is a plain "is()" call
17:40 nothingmuch Corion: that happens usually when there are '#' in the test desc
17:40 nothingmuch and it's a harness bug, not a Test.pm bug
17:40 nothingmuch and i'm not 100% sure it's a bug
17:40 Corion nothingmuch: I'm looking if it is mentioned in force_todo :)
17:40 Corion Yep - they are still in force_todo :)
17:40 nothingmuch pugs t/blah.t | grep '#';
17:41 nothingmuch i saw a grep that highlighted matches
17:41 Corion force_todo should output a real TODO message (like, "for release")
17:41 * nothingmuch wonders where that was
17:41 nothingmuch where is that?
17:42 autrijus Test.pm
17:42 * Corion commits
17:42 * nothingmuch is sooo out date
17:42 * autrijus commits
17:43 autrijus looking good
17:43 * nothingmuch reloops
17:44 saorge has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
17:44 autrijus ok, r1897.
17:44 autrijus shower now; I'll do preflight + release when I get back.
17:46 autrijus meanwhile, if anyone fancies reading at svn log and add the past few hours' work to ChangeLog... :)
17:46 autrijus brb &
17:49 jabbot pugs - 1895 - Untodoed some succeeding tests
17:49 jabbot pugs - 1896 - * given.t all passes, thanks Eris.
17:49 jabbot pugs - 1897 - * 06-dash-version should not match again
17:50 saorge has joined #perl6
17:51 ninereasons it's nice that jabbot walks toward us when speaking now, instead of away as before.
17:51 * shapr agrees
17:51 shapr Hail Eris!
17:51 nothingmuch hail eris!
17:52 pasteling "Corion" at 217.86.61.174 pasted "Coroutine testbed" (63 lines, 1.3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/9271
17:52 Corion I've pasted my coroutine testbed (which I haven't even once run through Pugs), in case somebody wants to toy with it. I won't get to toying with it during this week.
17:52 gaal [OT] cuuute! http://perlnomic.org/ (i suppose i'm a fan of Peter Suber)
17:53 Corion It's supposed to become an interface to irc, of course, but I've left out the sockets stuff for the start.
18:00 zuulvin_ has quit IRC ("Leaving")
18:02 Steve_p nothingmuch?
18:03 nothingmuch yes
18:05 Aankhen`` Yey, the array_ref tests aren't hanging any longer!
18:06 zuulvin_ has joined #perl6
18:07 nothingmuch Steve_p?
18:08 gaal r1901, but this is a fix in the yaml harness and doesn't require another smoke round, folks.
18:09 jabbot pugs - 1898 - <Corion> force_todo should output a real
18:09 jabbot pugs - 1899 - * repair want.t
18:09 jabbot pugs - 1900 - * splat now flattens for real
18:09 jabbot pugs - 1901 - fix failing test xref on msys
18:09 autrijus ***  Evl: App "circumfix:{}" ('aasd')
18:10 autrijus wha?
18:10 autrijus I didn't even know we have circumfix:
18:10 Southen[a] has joined #perl6
18:10 nothingmuch circumfix is like hyper, right?
18:10 autrijus oh wow we do.
18:10 autrijus no, it's { }
18:11 nothingmuch i think hyper is a circumfix op though
18:11 nothingmuch even if { } is too
18:12 saorge has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
18:12 autrijus oh. ok.
18:12 autrijus anyway, fixing pair.t
18:12 autrijus 4 tests to go!
18:13 gaal msys: t/magicals/pid.t
18:13 gaal '.' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
18:13 gaal operable program or batch file.
18:14 gaal and: t/pugsbugs/env_is_readonly.t
18:14 gaal Can't locate File/Spec.pm in @INC (@INC contains: ext/Test/lib /usr/lib/perl6/msys /usr/lib/perl6 /usr/lib/perl6/site_perl/msys /usr/lib/perl6/site_perl . blib6/lib).
18:14 gaal Val VUndef
18:15 gaal we dont' support cygwin at all, do we? i should just s/cygwin/msys all over t/
18:15 BigBear has joined #perl6
18:16 kungfuftr latets smoke on my box is up
18:16 gaal oh, my bad re:env_is_readonly, right? i should put blib in the search path.
18:17 Corion Heh - thanks to whoever added that fix upon my blathering
18:17 gaal so, autrijus, can i chuck cygwin for msys?
18:17 nothingmuch pugs: cannot cast from VList [] to AST.VCode
18:17 nothingmuch for every test
18:17 crysflame msys?
18:17 gaal Corion, the win32 couldn't xref blah? that was me
18:18 gaal crysflame: msys ~~ mingw
18:18 Corion gaal: I meant r1989
18:18 crysflame ok
18:18 Corion err - r1898
18:18 gaal i don't know why they needed two names
18:18 gaal ah
18:18 mj41 MSYS or Minimal SYStem is a POSIX and Bourne shell environment use with MinGW
18:19 gaal so is the arch ever mingw? on my box it's msys
18:19 gaal i've never seen mingw
18:19 gaal or could it be that it depends on the order you install them?
18:20 kungfuftr autrijus: know where to get binary ghc package for freebsd 5.3?
18:20 autrijus kungfuftr: pkg_add should do no?
18:20 autrijus clkao mentioned somewhere has it
18:21 kungfuftr autrijus: pkg_add -r ghc doesn't have any on the mirrors
18:22 gollem has joined #perl6
18:22 kungfuftr gollem: ye cunt!
18:22 * shapr blinks
18:22 kungfuftr =0)
18:22 gollem you know it
18:22 shapr är du säkert?
18:22 shapr finns det nån annat?
18:22 kungfuftr gollem est my housemate... a fellow perl geek
18:23 shapr jaså
18:23 shapr det är okej
18:23 mj41 MSWin32 - nmake - ActivePerl or
18:23 mj41 mingw - mingw32-make - MinGW and ActivePerl or
18:23 mj41 msys - make - MinGW, MSYS and ActiveState or
18:23 mj41 msys - make - MinGW, MSYS and MSYS-DTK (MinGW perl)
18:23 gollem nej , finns ingen annan
18:23 shapr är du svensk?
18:23 gollem japp
18:23 shapr hur kommer du till uk?
18:23 gollem hehe
18:23 gollem bra fråga
18:23 kungfuftr bah!
18:23 gollem fick jobb
18:24 shapr intressant
18:24 iblech has quit IRC ("school tomorrow; off")
18:24 shapr kungfuftr: cool, you live with a swede
18:24 gollem it's very very cool..
18:24 gollem :)
18:25 shapr men jag är inte säkert om jag låter svenska också
18:25 shapr jag kommer från USA, men bor i Boden
18:25 gollem ok
18:25 gollem jag bodde i Luleå fram till i december då jag flyttade hit
18:25 shapr well dang
18:25 shapr I never meet the local geeks
18:25 shapr that sucks
18:25 gollem hehe
18:25 shapr Or maybe I did meet you?
18:26 gollem doubt it
18:26 shapr Did you ever meet the crazy american person with a reputation for writing Haskell?
18:26 shapr The unicyclist in Boden?
18:26 shapr Ok, never mind :-)
18:26 gollem yes
18:26 gollem err
18:26 gollem hmm
18:26 gollem in Boden? no ,maybe not
18:27 shapr I hung out in Luleå some with an Irish friend of mine.
18:27 gollem i went to the Uni there
18:28 shapr Do you know Tony Scully in CDH/CDT?
18:28 gollem no
18:28 shapr ah well
18:28 shapr tyvärr
18:29 gollem what is an american doing in Boden anyways?
18:29 saorge has joined #perl6
18:29 shapr I met this chick on icq, (50,000 words omitted) and now I live in Boden.
18:29 nothingmuch hah
18:29 kungfuftr what is anyone doing on boden is a better question
18:29 nothingmuch castaway and theorbtwo both have such stories
18:29 Corion Yay! The segfault when evaluating NaNs has gone too!
18:30 jabbot pugs - 1902 - * fix named vindings.
18:30 jabbot pugs - 1903 - * pair.t and multidum repaired.
18:30 jabbot pugs - 1904 - * junction_functions repaired.
18:30 gollem shapr: i hope she's worth it...
18:30 Corion nothingmuch: But they sound so alike. It's as if they copy their story.
18:30 Southen has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
18:30 * shapr grins
18:31 shapr It's not a great sacrifice to live in Boden. It's a beautiful place, and I have internet.
18:31 gollem how long have you lived there?
18:31 zuulvin_ wedwdw
18:31 zuulvin_ dddddd
18:31 shapr two years in Boden, three years in Tornio before that.
18:31 shapr puhutko suomea?
18:31 gollem ooh
18:33 autrijus Corion: win32 happy?
18:35 Corion autrijus: Yep
18:35 autrijus care to do another full test run?
18:35 autrijus I think I'm ready for preflight.
18:35 Corion There are some Win32 issues (PID, ENV), but nothing pressing :)
18:35 autrijus reviewing changelog now
18:35 nothingmuch autrijus: should i try to finish mine for once?
18:35 autrijus yeah, sure, as long as the tests are TODOed/skipped
18:35 autrijus nothingmuch: sure!
18:35 nothingmuch it is at oo
18:35 Corion http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html - r1901
18:36 Corion (and I have to fix another of my tests that fails due to the changed string-eval semantics)
18:36 autrijus nod. I've fixed all the visible reds here
18:36 autrijus or forced todoed them
18:36 nothingmuch t/operators/binding.t
18:36 nothingmuch # Looks like you failed 1 tests of 9
18:36 autrijus ok, take your time
18:36 nothingmuch r1902 finishing soon
18:36 nothingmuch bad plan else where
18:36 kungfuftr autrijus: http://kungfuftr.com/pugs-smoke.html too
18:36 autrijus r1906 has bindings done
18:37 nothingmuch beh, you'll see
18:37 autrijus r1906 is all clean here
18:37 gaal t/builtins/io/io_in_for_loops...............ok                              
18:37 gaal        1/49 unexpectedly succeeded
18:37 nothingmuch ok, it'll update soon
18:37 autrijus I think, at least
18:37 kungfuftr still doing another run
18:37 nothingmuch kungfuftr: hopefully this will soon be consolidated
18:37 nothingmuch i'm working hard on this
18:37 nothingmuch if you want to help with Test::TAP::Model i'll be grateful
18:37 kungfuftr nothingmuch: oh... nice
18:37 nothingmuch darcs repo is up
18:37 kungfuftr yup, been trying to do test stuff last few days
18:38 kungfuftr real life--
18:38 autrijus magickally, "make optimized" worked again
18:38 Corion Oooo - conflict :)
18:38 autrijus oooh exciting
18:39 kungfuftr oooh... cheese!
18:39 Corion Nah - I think the conflict was either resolved or gaal directly fixed the test-bug as well :)
18:40 jabbot pugs - 1905 - add msys to windows junctions
18:40 jabbot pugs - 1906 - * fix xor; clean the rest of tests
18:40 gaal t/magicals/pid..............................NOK 1# Looks like you failed 1 tests of 1
18:41 Corion gaal: PIDs are broken on Win32
18:41 Corion (all PIDs are "1" :) )
18:41 gaal ah :)
18:41 Corion gaal: I added a test for that, because one day I intend to fix it :)
18:41 gaal good, good
18:41 Corion gaal: The test checks if the child PID differs from our $*PID :)
18:41 * Corion does another smokeround
18:42 gaal t/operators/binding.........................NOK 7# Looks like you failed 1 tests of 9
18:42 Corion I hope that we get embedding soon, so I can start stealing from Perl5 and/or using Win32 DLL functions
18:42 gaal t/operators/filetest........................FAILED tests 2-3, 5-6, 23, 26    
18:42 gaal        Failed 6/30 tests, 80.00% okay (less 4 skipped tests: 20 okay, 66.67%)
18:42 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("tiuq\")
18:42 Corion Heh. Should we have #pugssmoke, where everybody does live reports of their test runs? :)
18:43 kungfuftr how longs kwiki.org been dead?
18:43 gaal t/operators/short_circuit...................FAILED tests 15, 19
18:43 gaal tell me if i should stop sayig all this
18:43 gaal we have a problem with how slow these cycles are
18:44 kungfuftr gaal: run the smoke and upload the html to somewhere
18:44 kungfuftr =0)
18:44 gaal t/pugsrun/01-multiple-e.....................FAILED test 7 # Corion, this one's for you :)
18:44 gaal kff, but that has latency
18:44 Steve_p kungfuftr, seen reports from yesterday
18:44 jabbot Steve_p: I havn't seen reports , Steve_p
18:44 autrijus I force_todoed them
18:44 Corion gaal: Fixed in the latest commit I think
18:44 gaal how latest is the latest?
18:44 nothingmuch Steve_p: ping
18:44 Steve_p heh
18:44 autrijus r1909.
18:45 Corion r1908 is what I'm smoking
18:45 Steve_p hi nothingmuch
18:45 nothingmuch sent?
18:45 autrijus Corion: it will have one bad plan() in short_circuit
18:45 autrijus otherwise should be fine
18:45 autrijus I'm rerunning another round as well.
18:45 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status/
18:45 gaal how do i tell which ver i have co'ed?
18:45 Steve_p Yeah, darcs send said it did
18:46 gaal oh, right, svn info
18:46 kungfuftr gaal: `svn up` should tell you after it's finished
18:46 * nothingmuch goes to clean the kitchen
18:46 gaal yeah, but i don't want to do that while in the middle of a smoke :)
18:46 xkb has joined #perl6
18:46 nothingmuch Steve_p: i'll check mail soon
18:47 gaal okay, i had 1905.
18:47 gaal see, it's impossible to test when there are four commits before the test is over :)
18:47 gaal and this is a relatively fast machine!
18:48 autrijus t/pugsrun/01-multiple-e.....................ok
18:48 autrijus        1/7 unexpectedly succeeded
18:48 * nothingmuch 's is still compiling for 190x, dunno which
18:48 nothingmuch but optimized
18:48 autrijus t/pugsbugs/env_is_readonly..................ok
18:48 autrijus        2/3 unexpectedly succeeded
18:48 autrijus known?
18:48 autrijus if yes, remove them from force_todo please
18:49 gaal autrijus, i think this may be a platform-dep issue, because for me that failed.
18:49 kungfuftr 2029!?!?
18:50 jabbot pugs - 1907 - * retract one too eager force_todo
18:50 jabbot pugs - 1908 - Fixed another test that broke due to the
18:50 jabbot pugs - 1909 - * fix test count
18:50 gaal kff, ?
18:50 autrijus CGI is failing:
18:50 autrijus t/basic.t                 21    5  23.81%  7 9-12
18:50 autrijus t/params.t                30    9  30.00%  2 9 11-12 17 24-25 27-28
18:50 kungfuftr what url do i use to co again?
18:50 crysflame like, CGI.pm?!
18:51 autrijus I'll investigate CGI.pm.
18:51 autrijus kungfuftr: http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/
18:51 kungfuftr ta
18:51 gaal we need to teach perlbot that
18:52 kungfuftr odd... unrecognised url scheme so svn reports
18:52 autrijus you don't have neon built in?
18:52 kungfuftr don't think so
18:52 kungfuftr bellecks
18:54 autrijus back.
18:54 autrijus I'll deal with the 3 unexpected successes.
18:56 autrijus done.
18:57 autrijus making another round of r1910 tests
18:57 Corion r1908 at http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
18:58 autrijus weird
18:58 autrijus t\builtins\io\io_in_for_loops.t
18:58 autrijus I thought I have force_todo there
18:58 autrijus can you run it separately?
18:58 autrijus it looks like that run has no idea of force_todo
18:59 hawkaloogie has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
18:59 autrijus ChangeLog done.
19:00 jabbot pugs - 1910 - * clean up unexpected tests.
19:00 jabbot pugs - 1911 - * bump version to 6.2.0; add ChangeLog
19:00 autrijus preflight will begin shortly.
19:00 Corion I'm currently smoking r1910 - should I stop/restart/retest ?
19:00 autrijus no, go ahead
19:01 Corion Weird. The force_todo file claims that #26 is todo, but the test output disagrees ...
19:03 kungfuftr right... doing a test run on my 5.3 speddier laptop
19:03 autrijus #26?
19:03 Corion Hah. The output is "(TODO for release)", but I think that the harness wants "#TODO reason"
19:03 Corion autrijus: In io_in_for_loops.t or whatever it's called.
19:04 Corion Hmmm. No, the output is even "# TODO for release". Weird.
19:05 xkb has quit IRC ()
19:07 autrijus preflight!
19:07 autrijus http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/tmp/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.0.tar.gz
19:07 castaway oooh
19:08 autrijus writing to p6c.
19:09 wolverian hmm, pugs has apparently added its Test.pm to my 5.8.4 lib dir.
19:10 autrijus it did that a while ago.
19:10 autrijus I believe it has been fixed. is this a current issue?
19:10 wolverian probably not.
19:10 wolverian removing them and retrying.
19:10 autrijus thanks and sorry.
19:10 wolverian no problem.
19:12 Corion r1910 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html (rsync++)
19:12 gaal Corion, scp -C is good too :)
19:12 autrijus Corion: grab preflight and "nmake test" by hand?
19:12 Corion autrijus: Willdo
19:13 Corion gaal: Does it skip unchanged files?
19:13 gaal no, but it compresses the data.
19:13 autrijus 06-dash-version.t
19:13 autrijus it will fail, that's expected, I'm committing a fix.
19:14 autrijus it's regex matching against 6.0.x.
19:14 autrijus fancy that.
19:14 gaal anyone in tests already? i'm still compiling
19:15 kungfuftr r1911 here
19:15 Corion nmake test running
19:15 gaal btw how bad is it if i make optimized, then svn up a few files, and make w/o optimized? (not happening now, i've started from clean)
19:15 Corion (still compiling) # preflight
19:15 stevan (me too) # preflight
19:16 gaal ah, tests have started.
19:17 Corion t/builtins/io/io_in_for_loops...............ok
19:17 autrijus preflight is expected to have one test file fail (06-dash-version) and nothing else.
19:17 Corion ... so it's a problem of the yaml harness that it doesn't recognize the force_todo stuff
19:17 autrijus I will release the final version if Corion and stevan confirms this status.
19:18 Corion autrijus: Oy! Now I get your 6.0.x comment :)
19:18 autrijus :)
19:18 Corion autrijus: But I wanted to avoid the test to check against the version of the currently running pugs.exe :)
19:19 stevan testing testing testing .....
19:19 theorbtwo Should you disable make optimized in the release?
19:19 Corion ... A project manager falls from the empire state building. As he passes the third floor, he is overhead to say "so far, so good".
19:19 kungfuftr r1911 is clean except for 06-dash-version.t with `make; make test`
19:20 jabbot pugs - 1912 - * isa_ok now OKs
19:20 jabbot pugs - 1913 - * fix version for .002000
19:20 jabbot pugs - 1914 - tests chars, but not adequately; see
19:20 jabbot pugs - 1915 - * oops, wrong regex
19:20 jabbot pugs - 1916 - * we are not 6.0.x anymore
19:20 autrijus theorbtwo: optimized now works.
19:20 theorbtwo Oh, OK.
19:20 gaal PID still fails here
19:20 autrijus for some strange reason
19:20 autrijus gaal: oh? which version? which test?
19:20 autrijus gaal: what's your
19:20 gaal t/magicals/pid..............................FAILED test 1                    # msys
19:20 autrijus pugs -e "$?OS"
19:20 autrijus pugs -e "$?OS.say"
19:21 gaal ahem.
19:21 gaal $ pugs -e "$?OS.say"
19:21 gaal
19:21 gaal unexpected "O"
19:21 gaal expecting "x", "d", octal digit, "o", "b", digit, fraction, exponent, term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
19:21 gaal NonTerm SourcePos "-e" 1 2
19:21 autrijus pugs -e '$?OS.say'
19:21 autrijus ;)
19:21 Corion magicals/pid.t fails here too. $*PID support is broken on Win32
19:22 gaal yeah, msys :)
19:22 Corion I'll demote that test to todo_
19:22 theorbtwo Hmmpf, can we get something saner?
19:22 gaal t/operators/arith...........................FAILED tests 149-150, 152-153
19:22 Corion autrijus: Or do you want to demote tests there?
19:22 gaal t/operators/filetest........................FAILED tests 2-3, 5-6, 23, 26
19:22 autrijus ok, I added skip.
19:22 theorbtwo (Then msys, that is.)
19:22 gaal huh? that's sane enough, to2
19:23 gaal don't you expect 'cygwin' for $^O when you use that?
19:23 gaal oops $?OS
19:23 Corion t/operators/arith: 13/179 skipped, but otherwise OK on Win2k
19:23 theorbtwo I expect "cygwin" on cygwin systems, "win32" on pure win32 systems.
19:23 gaal well, msys is very much like cygwin.
19:24 Corion t/operators/filetest.t fails FAILED tests 2-3, 5-6, 23, 26
19:24 mj41 WinXP infinite loop, IMO:
19:24 mj41 pugs -e "use File::Spec; say 'begin'; say abs2rel( '\a' , '\b' ); say 'end';"
19:24 Corion Likely because -s is still unimplemented on Win32
19:24 theorbtwo msys is only a well-known name for those highly familiar with cygwin, no?
19:25 stevan mj41: what does the perl5 File::Spec do?
19:25 gaal do we want force_todo to have platform smarts?
19:25 gaal or is that the road to insanity?
19:25 Corion gaal: I think we should make the platform relevant tests simply todo_
19:25 Corion t/pugsrun/06-dash-version...................FAILED tests 1-8
19:25 Corion (as expected)
19:26 gaal Corion, but then you get unexpected oks on som platforms.
19:26 theorbtwo Um, giving "unexpectedly succeeded" on linux isn't much better then "failed" on win32.
19:26 stevan what about a compromise of todo_win32_* test functions
19:26 Corion Ah - I forgot about the other platforms, true.
19:26 Corion Let's simply make the test smarter then.
19:26 gaal stevan, surely *that* is insane :)
19:26 gaal todo_freebsd
19:26 gaal todo_cray
19:26 theorbtwo todo_qnx!
19:27 gaal todo_zx_spectrum
19:27 Corion todo_linux_freebsd_but_not_netbsd
19:27 stevan todo_commodore_64
19:27 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
19:27 kungfuftr how bout as a parameter? for todo
19:27 Corion Let's simply add another junction to TODO, which contains the OSes :)
19:27 theorbtwo Allo, limbic.
19:27 Corion kungfuftr: You keep reading my mind!
19:27 autrijus don't do that to 6.2.0 yet :)
19:27 nothingmuch damn you Test::Harness!
19:27 Limbic_Region salutations theorbtwo
19:27 kungfuftr =0)
19:27 gaal no!!! skip if $?OS = any<known_bad>
19:28 theorbtwo L~R: http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/tmp/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.0.tar.gz
19:28 Limbic_Region very productive day for me - haven't been following Pugs at all today - so what's new?
19:28 gaal whoops, i'm slow :)
19:28 Limbic_Region heh - good timing theorbtwo - will have to check it out tomorrow though
19:28 stevan Corion: I like the Junction idea
19:28 Corion stevan: It's just disguised madness IMO.
19:28 mj41 perl -e "use File::Spec::Functions qw(abs2rel); print abs2rel( '\a' , '\b' );"
19:28 mj41 ..\a
19:29 autrijus actually, realflight.
19:29 Corion Simply make the tests smart enough to care for their platform
19:29 gaal so, summary of failing tests on win32:
19:29 gaal t/magicals/pid.t                           1    1 100.00%  1
19:29 gaal t/operators/arith.t                      179    4   2.23%  149-150 152-153
19:29 gaal t/operators/filetest.t                    30    6  20.00%  2-3 5-6 23 26
19:29 gaal t/pugsrun/06-dash-version.t                8    8 100.00%  1-8
19:29 kungfuftr r1916 # running tests with `make optimized; make test`
19:29 Corion autrijus: Still looking good here.
19:29 stevan Corion: madness abounds with Pugs :)
19:29 autrijus http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.0.tar.gz
19:29 autrijus if you are early into the previous test, please drop it
19:29 Corion autrijus: New version?
19:29 stevan autrijus: no problems here either
19:29 autrijus yes, likely to be final one.
19:30 jabbot pugs - 1917 - * pid.t skipped on win32
19:30 jabbot pugs - 1918 - * sporadic test fails reported by gaal a
19:30 gaal i love it how firefox names the download Perl6-Pugs-7.2.0.tar.gz :)
19:30 autrijus :D
19:30 Corion On my version, it was:
19:30 Corion t/magicals/pid.t                           1    1 100.00%  1
19:30 Corion t/operators/filetest.t                    30    6  20.00%  2-3 5-6 23 26
19:30 Corion t/pugsrun/06-dash-version.t                8    8 100.00%  1-8
19:30 autrijus ok, I think I covered for all of them.
19:30 stevan mj41: what platform are you on?
19:30 autrijus as for filetest.t, because we don't have win32-specific forcetodo
19:30 autrijus I simply disabled all tests for filetest.t on win32.
19:31 stevan autrijus: no problems at all with Mac OS X
19:31 autrijus actually, you can just selective rerun that three first
19:31 stevan (but the test are not completely done)
19:31 Corion autrijus: Good Enough
19:31 autrijus pid, filetest, 06dashv
19:31 autrijus and report back whether they now Works.
19:31 lightstep has joined #perl6
19:31 Corion autrijus: Will rerun the three failing tests, plus the one of gaal
19:31 autrijus there's no arith.t in this release ;)
19:31 autrijus <- too tired to investigate msys
19:31 gaal *giggle*
19:32 gaal it's a painful test to debug
19:32 autrijus that too.
19:32 * autrijus waits for Corion/gaal to report
19:32 kungfuftr autrijus: r1916 is completely clean with optimized
19:32 autrijus wonderful!
19:32 autrijus looks like we have a solid release.
19:33 boogie server isc.perl.org
19:33 Corion operators/filetest.t crashes for me
19:33 gaal i just remembered that at some point, it reported the wrong coordinates to failing tests - but that may have been fixed
19:33 autrijus oh wow.
19:33 autrijus crashes!?
19:33 Corion (syntax error: $pugs is undefined)
19:33 Corion *undeclared
19:33 autrijus argh.
19:33 Corion the other two are fine
19:33 gaal guess there's no filetest in this release either, huh? :p
19:33 Corion ... at least according to prove.pl
19:33 autrijus it's just a typo ;)
19:34 autrijus but hey, why not
19:34 Corion Yeah - pugs -Iblib6\lib reports the same failure :)
19:34 autrijus yeah, and it's fixed in trunk
19:35 * Corion wipes his flight-dir
19:35 * stevan is still testing ....
19:35 * Corion starts another smoke run
19:35 kungfuftr filetest.t fails on freebsd
19:36 kungfuftr test 6 and 26
19:36 Corion kungfuftr: Likely because of the aforementioned syntax error :)
19:36 gaal still compiling, here :/
19:36 kungfuftr ah!
19:36 Corion kungfuftr: Oh - if it doesn't completely fail, then there is something bad...
19:36 lightstep what is `cannot find package plugins'? (on perl Makefile.PL)? no hs-plugins on this system?
19:37 autrijus right. that's fine
19:37 theorbtwo Correct.  The next line should warn you about that.
19:37 autrijus Corion: it appears that it tries to -w pugs
19:37 autrijus and fails
19:37 autrijus anyway it's not in the release.
19:37 * autrijus takes this No Mercy approach
19:37 ninereasons filetest.t doesn't fail on my bsd, r1920
19:38 stevan filetest.t is ok on my Mac
19:38 theorbtwo We couldn't figure out a real platform-independent way to shut it up... so we didn't, because it's better then hanging on half of our user base during Makefile.PL time.
19:38 Corion Maybe umask differences
19:38 kungfuftr ninereasons: r1920 still does here
19:39 * gaal wishes for a haskell ccache
19:39 Corion ccache ?
19:39 gaal ah, tests just started
19:39 gaal Corion, a hack to make c builds faster
19:39 Corion gaal: I think GHC is already pretty smart about compiling ;)
19:39 gaal it stores .o files in a cache, keyed by their MD5s
19:39 ninereasons I make realclean first, but surely that's not a difference, kungfuftr ?
19:40 jabbot pugs - 1919 - * so much for cargo culting
19:40 jabbot pugs - 1920 - * cargo cult too
19:40 gaal yes, but not when i rm -rf the old preflight dir :)
19:40 kungfuftr ninereasons: nope, just tests have changed since my last build
19:40 Corion gaal: Aaah ;)
19:40 gaal which i kinda want to do you know, as one more measure against paper bags.
19:41 kungfuftr ninereasons: yeah, pugs is 1916 here
19:41 stevan *sigh* we have too many tests ...
19:41 gaal kff, 1920 is the latest r
19:41 Corion stevan: Feel free to reorganize them in a way that exposes new bugs in the early-run tests :)
19:41 hlafarge has quit IRC ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
19:41 ingy has joined #perl6
19:42 gaal ...so far so good on msys...
19:42 kungfuftr gaal: i know... but between 1916 and 1920, only tests have changed
19:42 stevan Corion: but how will we know where the next bug is ?
19:42 Corion Heh - quoting typo in t/magicals/pid.t - double quotes where single quotes should be used :)
19:42 nothingmuch Steve_p: darcs pull if you're interested
19:42 * kungfuftr rebuilds anyway
19:42 nothingmuch i haven't merged yet, i'm on a blitz
19:42 theorbtwo I suspect the harnesses should shuffle, and run in -j2 mode.
19:42 Corion stevan: Ah, that I don't know. But maybe for regressions :))
19:43 nothingmuch i'll do it in 3 minutes, when I'm done with one more thing
19:43 gaal 'use less bugs' or 'use bugs <predictable>'
19:43 Corion theorbtwo: Hmm - -j2 would be interesting indeed, except that we don't have File::Temp yet
19:43 Corion (some of my tests use sleep(), so -j2 would benefit from that)
19:43 nothingmuch Corion: temp? what for?
19:43 stevan Corion: actually we might want to look into a t/skip_todo file which avoid tests which we absolutely know are TODO
19:43 nothingmuch Corion: not only that, there's some of us with multiple CPU boxes
19:43 Corion nothingmuch: Race conditions. Currently all tempfiles are hardcoded
19:43 nothingmuch eris is 2 cpu
19:44 nothingmuch safta is 2 cpu HT
19:44 theorbtwo lilith is hyperthreaded.
19:44 Corion nothingmuch: My P4 box pretends to be 2 CPUs as well
19:44 nothingmuch Corion: then they should be different per test case
19:44 Corion nothingmuch: Which is why I want File::Temp
19:44 nothingmuch safta pretends it's 4 cpu
19:44 nothingmuch Corion: i mean hard coded diff
19:44 nothingmuch or we could do File::Temp
19:44 gaal t/operators/filetest fails here, predictably, in my pf2 package...
19:44 nothingmuch we could start by making it brutish
19:45 justatheory has joined #perl6
19:45 autrijus http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.0.tar.gz  
19:45 Corion nothingmuch: Sure, but that will lead to stupid copying and inexplainable errors. That's why I want File::Temp :)
19:45 nothingmuch lets assume that the probability of collision with $$+rand+time+rev is ok
19:45 autrijus err, sorry: http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/dist/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.0.tar.gz  
19:45 nothingmuch and then we could really do it, once we have a proper stat
19:45 Corion nothingmuch: Hah. $*PID is constant on Win32.
19:45 * theorbtwo assumes those are ~~?
19:45 theorbtwo Er, ~.
19:45 gaal oh - it's out?
19:45 nothingmuch huraah!
19:45 Corion nothingmuch: Never, never! use stat! There are (POSIX) calls for Tempfiles, and Win32 has them too (or via POSIX)
19:45 Corion I want proper tempfiles :)
19:45 autrijus sanity check that dist/ tarball?
19:46 autrijus make sure the two headache tests are not there, the version etc passes when run individually, etc
19:46 nothingmuch Corion: well, i don't know of the proper ones, i just use File::Temp
19:46 autrijus using a built pugs
19:46 Corion Ooops - t/operators/arith.t failed due to a syntax error - $pugs undeclared.
19:46 nothingmuch i thought it was needed, afterwords
19:46 Corion nothingmuch: File::Temp uses the proper ones :)
19:46 nothingmuch to make sure the file you created was what you wanted, or something
19:46 autrijus Corion: fixed already
19:46 nothingmuch well, sure, whatever =)
19:46 Corion autrijus++ # fixing tests before I find failures
19:46 ingy hola
19:47 stevan hey ingy, care to preflight?
19:47 autrijus anyway, I think it's ready to fly.
19:47 autrijus    http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/dist/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.0.tar.gz
19:47 autrijus    SIZE (Perl6-Pugs-6.2.0.tar.gz) = 642482
19:47 autrijus    MD5 (Perl6-Pugs-6.2.0.tar.gz) = 8d5438d49db872ffe2394fd4995d335b
19:47 stevan autrijus: t/pugsrun/06-dash-version.t                8    8 100.00%  1-8
19:47 stevan thats all
19:47 stevan Failed 1/203 test scripts, 99.51% okay. 8/4246 subtests failed, 99.81% okay.
19:48 autrijus stevan: right, that's with the tmp/ one?
19:48 autrijus anyway it's fixed :)
19:48 stevan the first one you asked to preflight :)
19:48 theorbtwo Hm, the current -dcore-lint error happens both with and without optimized.  Reporting it on #haskell.
19:48 autrijus yup.
19:48 autrijus ok, that's fine, posting on p6c now.
19:48 nothingmuch 4000... wow
19:48 stevan 4246 actually :P
19:49 * nothingmuch remembers when his tests accounted for more than 10% of the suite
19:49 nothingmuch yeah yeah, i'm not blind
19:49 gaal sanity check looks good here
19:49 autrijus okay, fly!
19:50 jabbot pugs - 1921 - * This be Pugs, version 6.2.0.
19:50 * gaal cheers
19:50 Corion r1919 looks good her
19:50 Corion e
19:50 Corion Yayyy
19:50 autrijus yay!
19:50 Corion Fly my Pugs! Fly!
19:50 ninereasons *applause*
19:50 * castaway cheers
19:50 theorbtwo jabbot, nopaste
19:50 jabbot theorbtwo: Does talking about this bother you?
19:51 stevan whose got the champagne!!!
19:51 ingy pugs++
19:51 autrijus and again, our summarizer missed us...
19:51 mj41 s/todo_//g foreach test;
19:51 mj41 r1600 - 1308/4135 subtests failed, 68.37% okay.
19:51 mj41 r1700 - 1166/4222 subtests failed, 72.38% okay.
19:51 mj41 r1800 - 1252/4214 subtests failed, 70.29% okay.
19:51 mj41 r1900 -  893/4240 subtests failed, 78.94% okay.
19:51 gaal perlbot nopaste
19:51 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
19:51 * stevan watches as Corion's Pug falls several stories to the ground and splats
19:52 lightstep so few tests added over time?
19:52 bradb|out is now known as bradb
19:53 stevan I wonder how many commits we had in the past 48 hours?
19:53 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("tiuq\")
19:54 * kungfuftr can't remember where the churn graph is
19:54 stevan stevan% svn log -r "{2005-04-11}:HEAD" | grep '^r[0-9]'| cut -d'|' -f2 | sort | uniq -c | sort
19:54 stevan   1  Ovid
19:54 stevan   1  asavige
19:54 stevan   1  cognominal
19:54 stevan   1  kcwu
19:54 stevan   1  luqui
19:54 stevan   1  tobez
19:54 rindolf autrijus: I see you've added pugs to CIA.
19:54 stevan   1  xern
19:54 stevan   2  ingy
19:54 stevan   4  gaal
19:55 stevan   4  ninereasons
19:55 stevan   4  theorbtwo
19:55 stevan   5  corion
19:55 stevan   5  dvergin
19:55 stevan   5  gcomnz
19:55 stevan  16  Stevan
19:55 stevan  16  iblech
19:55 stevan 102  autrijus
19:55 stevan that there is a lot of commits
19:55 autrijus rindolf: I did not. maybe someone else did.
19:55 lightstep too bad the last summary was weekly, not fortnightly
19:56 autrijus that's fine :)
19:56 autrijus posted to p6c.
19:56 autrijus same post posted to journal.
19:57 autrijus feel free to cross post the good news elsewhere.
19:57 autrijus anywhere is fine... even slashdot :)
19:57 autrijus now... I really should sleep.
19:57 autrijus thanks everybody. :))))
19:57 * autrijus waves &
19:57 stevan nite autrijus
19:58 theorbtwo G'night, autrijus.
19:58 gaal good night!
19:59 kungfuftr full clean build here anyways
20:00 kungfuftr =0)
20:00 Corion Slashdot accepts every crap today. Maybe we should offer them to pay if they mention Pugs every week :)
20:02 * theorbtwo ponders what useful he could do with the haskell bindings, but without user-visible objects.
20:02 theorbtwo I wonder if I can do objects on the level I'd want already.
20:06 mugwump has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
20:07 theorbtwo Ugh.
20:08 theorbtwo ./pugs -e'require_haskell("SHA1__0_0_1.o"); say sha1("")'
20:08 theorbtwo pugs: internal error: stg_ap_p_ret Please report this as a bug to glasgow-haskell-bugs@haskell.org, or http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/ghc/
20:09 * kungfuftr gets pugs running under svk
20:15 ninereasons why did your build succeed this time, I wonder, kungfuftr ?
20:15 kungfuftr ninereasons: no idea, is very odd
20:16 kungfuftr bad cleanup from the test first time round?
20:16 nothingmuch oddd
20:16 nothingmuch very very odd
20:17 ninereasons btw, kungfuftr , have you succeeded in getting plugins installed (sorry to be a broken record about this)
20:18 gaal 9r: did you 'make register'?
20:18 ninereasons it won't build for me, gaal
20:18 gaal ah
20:18 gaal what platgform?
20:18 ninereasons it doesn't seem to like what it gets from autoconf
20:18 ninereasons freebsd 4.11
20:19 gaal it won'r build for me on windows either :( but on linux it does work.
20:19 kungfuftr ninereasons: nope, there's no freebsd port for it, so don't get on teh server i'm afraid
20:19 co3 has quit IRC ("bye")
20:19 ninereasons (autoconf259 actually - maybe that's the issue)
20:19 ninereasons yes, gaal, debian built and installed as did slackware
20:20 gaal slackware! my first distro
20:20 ninereasons i'm sentimentally attached to slackware.
20:20 * gaal remembers going off to a distant university as a kid to download tens of 5 1/4" diskettes
20:21 ninereasons but debian makes me go "wow"
20:21 ninereasons so many cool ideas.
20:21 gaal the coolest thing about debian is that mostly, it just works
20:21 ninereasons yes.  I was introduced to it through knoppix
20:22 ninereasons just works.
20:22 theorbtwo A close second is that when it doesn't just work, it doesn't get in your way when trying to fix it.
20:22 gaal true dat
20:23 ninereasons funny perl installation, though :)
20:23 Aankhen`` G'night.
20:23 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("2400 Baud makes you want to get out and push [Time wasted online: 13hrs 36mins 44secs]")
20:23 gaal 9r: apt-get install dh-make-perl, if you have more than one box.
20:24 ninereasons noted, gaal.
20:24 gaal though nowadays i just say to hell with it and use cpanplus
20:24 nothingmuch mutt is slow
20:24 * nothingmuch needs to repatch for headercache
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20:25 kungfuftr ninereasons: come across hs-plugins in ports anywhere?
20:25 ninereasons no, kungfuftr .
20:25 ninereasons kungfuftr, it's strange though, because 'don' develops on *bsd, I'm told
20:26 kungfuftr anyone updated MANFIFEST at all?
20:28 stevan kungfuftr: its part of the release process
20:30 kungfuftr ah, k
20:30 mj41 g'night
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20:42 Corion theorbtwo: You could implement File::Temp via your external bindings, or SQLite - both could be object-less exports, simply passing through the handles/strings (I think)
20:47 nothingmuch Steve_p: darcs pull
20:47 nothingmuch kungfuftr: did you see Test::TAP::Model?
20:48 kungfuftr nothingmuch: nope... where?
20:48 nothingmuch darcs get http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-Tap-Model
20:48 * kungfuftr don't use darcs
20:48 nothingmuch wget -r then
20:50 kungfuftr nothingmuch: looks intresting
20:51 * nothingmuch will now do Test::TAP::Visualize::HTMLMatrix
20:51 nothingmuch based on stevan's thing
20:51 nothingmuch btw, stevan, gaal, theorbtwo, autrijus, ingy et al: do you mind if i just put copyright "The Pugs Hackers"?
20:51 nothingmuch IMHO this code belongs to us all, and not only to us who worked on it
20:52 kungfuftr nothingmuch: i've had some ideas in how to improve the html generation tbh
20:52 nothingmuch i'm going to use a real templating thingy
20:52 nothingmuch for starters
20:53 Corion Pe-tal ! Pe-tal ! Pe-tal ! (although I admit that HTML::Template is easier done than Petal :) )
20:53 nothingmuch yeah, i'm for petal
20:54 nothingmuch especially since Test::TAP::Model has a nice OOP interface on top of the hash structures
20:54 Corion "easier done" in Pugs
20:54 theorbtwo I'd prefer that copyright be stated as belonging to something with some legal existance: a finite and enumerated list of people.
20:54 lightstep to whom is pugs copyrighted?
20:54 theorbtwo Autrijus.
20:54 nothingmuch theorbtwo: perl foundation? autrijus? people?
20:54 nothingmuch i'm not a part of the perl foundation
20:55 kungfuftr pugscode.org ?
20:55 theorbtwo Er, pugs is copyright autrijus.
20:55 Corion BTW, Haskell School of Expression is one of the recommended books, right?
20:55 nothingmuch in fact, i feel somewhat alienated by it, for this hunk of code
20:55 theorbtwo You do, nm?
20:55 xkb has quit IRC ()
20:55 ninereasons my copy of "The Haskel School of Expression" is signed by the author
20:55 ninereasons (although, not addressed to me)
20:55 nothingmuch a bit
20:55 nothingmuch personally i don't think they are actively helping
20:55 nothingmuch luqui and pmichaud do
20:55 nothingmuch but aside from that there has been no active input except on their level
20:55 nothingmuch that is, we do stuff
20:56 nothingmuch then we run into trouble
20:56 nothingmuch and we go ask
20:56 Corion Hmmm - the reviews say that it's a good second book ... Does it address the type system/monads in a good way ?
20:56 Corion nothingmuch: Ah, who cares about TPF?
20:56 nothingmuch Corion: exactly
20:56 Corion ... or do they hold the (c)opyright on Pugs?
20:56 nothingmuch i think they don't
20:56 nothingmuch autrijus does
20:56 Corion nothingmuch: They didn't as much drop the ball, they saw it falling and never moved in the general direction IMO.
20:56 kungfuftr nothingmuch: "Copyright pugscode.org"?
20:56 metaperl_ has joined #perl6
20:57 theorbtwo "Pugs is Copyright 2005 by Autrijus Tang.  All Rights Reserved." (From the README.)
20:57 Corion nothingmuch: Ah, he got TPF grant(s), so he feels more attached to them I think
20:57 nothingmuch theorbtwo: what should our code be, then?
20:57 theorbtwo Copyright all of us.
20:57 nothingmuch Corion: i spent work time today on this stuff, because work is interested
20:57 theorbtwo Anyone who has copyrighted stuff in it.
20:57 nothingmuch that doesn't mean the code is copyright hyperroll
20:57 theorbtwo Er, copyrightable.
20:57 clkao 5/win25
20:57 nothingmuch because i only refactored
20:57 nothingmuch oh my
20:58 nothingmuch does anyone have the capacity to svn blame | awk > copyright efficiently?
20:58 Corion Who cares about the copyright if the license is BSD/artistic ? I don't mind leaving the copyright with whoever as long as I can use/modify/distribute the code as I wish
20:58 nothingmuch Corion: he who holds the copyright decides the license
20:58 theorbtwo nm: That's one reason I try to keep track of AUTHORS.
20:58 ninereasons it's a very Windows friendly book, Corion: I assume you approve
20:58 theorbtwo Also, he who has copyright has standing to sue for violations of the license.
20:59 Corion nothingmuch: The license already is BSD/Artistic/dual, so I'm OK with that
20:59 Corion ninereasons: Ah, well - I don't mind windows-friendly books :)
20:59 nothingmuch svn blame | cut -d: -f1 | sort | uniq | <map via AUTHORS>?
20:59 lightstep nothingmuch, it's gpl, so it can never be non-gpl
20:59 nothingmuch theorbtwo: i'll do it later, methinks
20:59 nothingmuch lightstep: i don't really know the details
21:00 nothingmuch but the point is, that copyrights are an important attribution of control
21:00 nothingmuch it's not that i don't trust that TPF will use it correctly,
21:00 nothingmuch but this code is ours and should be marked as such
21:00 nothingmuch theorbtwo: what about contributors whose code has been indented, for example?
21:01 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
21:01 theorbtwo nm: Don't use blame, use log.
21:01 nothingmuch good point
21:02 nothingmuch odd
21:02 nothingmuch svn log -q util/testgraph.pl | awk '/^r/ { print $3}' | sort | uniq
21:02 nothingmuch doesn't include stevan
21:03 lightstep "You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License." (from LICENSE/GPL)
21:03 theorbtwo nm: Did you expect it to?
21:03 nothingmuch IIRC he wrote the original
21:03 theorbtwo I think I did.
21:04 theorbtwo But looking at the svn log out, all the patches are very short.
21:04 nothingmuch ah, sorry =)
21:04 nothingmuch theorbtwo++
21:04 nothingmuch i was sure it was his all along =)
21:05 theorbtwo Oh, the "lines" thing is the number of lines in the changelog entry, not the number of lines in the patch.
21:06 pjcj !
21:06 pjcj ... ww
21:06 nothingmuch AUTHORS doesn't contain the rt.openfoundry.org id, does it?
21:06 nothingmuch egrep -i 'autrijus|corion|gaal|nothingmuch|putter|rootmj|theorbtwo' AUTHORS
21:06 nothingmuch even worse without -i
21:06 pjcj quit
21:07 Corion pjcj: You're not in the vi window! :)
21:07 theorbtwo I try to have it contain it, or something pretty obvious from it.
21:07 nothingmuch theorbtwo: are you willing to handle patching the copyright stuff?
21:07 nothingmuch Corion: that's not a vi command
21:07 * theorbtwo is going to have to pick up Yet Another VCS for this, isn't he?
21:07 theorbtwo Tomorrow.
21:07 pjcj Corion: no - I was trying to install Apache::Filter  ;-)
21:08 nothingmuch theorbtwo: or wget -r
21:08 nothingmuch and patch
21:09 theorbtwo Nah, I can pick up darcs no problem.
21:09 theorbtwo debian++
21:09 nothingmuch yeah, it's easy =)
21:09 * Corion goes to bed. Have a good next 8 hours! I will be watching you via the logs :)
21:09 theorbtwo      5  Stevan
21:09 theorbtwo      5  autrijus
21:09 theorbtwo      5  putter
21:09 theorbtwo      5  rootmj
21:09 theorbtwo     10  corion
21:09 theorbtwo     20  kungfuftr
21:09 theorbtwo     30  nothingmuch
21:09 theorbtwo     65  theorbtwo
21:09 Lopo has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
21:09 theorbtwo     70  gaal
21:10 Lopo has joined #perl6
21:10 * theorbtwo goes to a different bed.
21:10 kungfuftr theorbtwo: wassat?
21:11 theorbtwo Number of checkins to the util testy stuff.
21:11 kungfuftr ah
21:11 nothingmuch oops
21:11 nothingmuch kungfuftr: darcs pull
21:11 lightstep has quit IRC ("good night")
21:11 nothingmuch i was pushing to the wrong repo
21:11 theorbtwo I should probably check for checkins to the old util/categorize_tests.pl before it got renamed over.
21:11 nothingmuch this has docs, and tests, and whatnot
21:12 nothingmuch doesn't it retain history?
21:12 theorbtwo It does.
21:12 nothingmuch so...?
21:12 theorbtwo But the file isn't there anymore, so the quick stats I just gathered don't include it.
21:13 theorbtwo I'll check more carefully later.
21:13 nothingmuch oh well
21:13 * theorbtwo & # really.  Monitor off in 3... 2... 1...
21:14 nothingmuch perl_subversion: 0
21:14 nothingmuch pugs_versnum: 6.2.0
21:14 nothingmuch so much for releng ;-)
21:20 jabbot pugs - 1922 - unTODOed test - worksforme on Win32, ple
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21:31 Juerd Argh
21:31 Juerd After two days I find out why I can't svn up pleac anymore. It's s/pleac/cookbook/ now...
21:32 gcom yeah, fortunately i noticed that somehow before trying too many times
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21:46 stevan nothingmuch: ping
21:46 nothingmuch pong
21:46 stevan the original catalog tests was mine
21:47 stevan but I showed it to you and you ran with it
21:47 nothingmuch that i remember
21:47 nothingmuch i didn't remember testgraph.pl
21:47 nothingmuch btw, want to SEE?
21:47 stevan after that all i did was contribute ideas and such
21:47 stevan yeah testgraph.pl I did the original HTML layout idea
21:47 stevan but again,.. you all ran with it
21:48 stevan (which is a good thing)
21:48 stevan nothingmuch: I stay away from SEE
21:48 stevan it tries to take over all my files and I cant seem to stop it
21:48 stevan TextMate is my new favorite editor
21:48 * nothingmuch somehow gets along with it
21:48 nothingmuch vim vim vim!
21:48 nothingmuch vim for the masses!
21:48 nothingmuch vim with molasses!
21:49 * stevan prefers to have a GUI
21:49 wolverian has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:50 nothingmuch gvim =)
21:50 stevan to be honest (and I know this is blasphemy in these halls) I dont like vi and any vi descendent
21:50 nothingmuch textmate looks pretty funky
21:50 stevan (modal interfaces)--
21:50 nothingmuch but i'm really hooked bad on vim
21:50 nothingmuch stevan: people who think like vi think like vi
21:50 nothingmuch that's all there's to it
21:51 nothingmuch i get along with it because i think modally
21:51 nothingmuch anyway, you're more than welcome to work with my coe
21:51 nothingmuch amend, or whatever
21:51 stevan nothingmuch: I would like too,.. but I am thinking I need to pay some attention to $work
21:51 nothingmuch beh!
21:51 stevan I have been doing the bare min for about a month now :)
21:52 nothingmuch hah
21:52 stevan luckily my boss is cool with all this stuff
21:52 stevan but I have another project starting in a week or so,.. and I need to prepare for it
21:53 * stevan is dreading going back to perl 5 land in some ways
21:53 nothingmuch i always thought you were the boss at II
21:53 stevan nothingmuch: LOL
21:53 stevan nope
21:53 nothingmuch =)
21:53 stevan we are only 3 people, and we work pretty independently
21:53 Maddingue has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:53 stevan so in a way I am my own boss
21:53 metaperl__ has joined #perl6
21:53 stevan but its not my company
21:54 nothingmuch oh well =)
21:54 stevan nothingmuch: even if I was,.. i still gotta pay the bills :)
21:54 nothingmuch bills shmills
21:55 stevan unlike autrijus my client is not willing to run perl5 yet :)
21:55 nothingmuch pugs needs you
21:55 stevan :)
21:55 CDybedahl has joined #perl6
21:55 stevan have no fear,.. I will not go anywhere
21:55 stevan you couldn't get rid of me if you tried
21:56 BigBear has quit IRC (Client Quit)
21:56 stevan nothingmuch: hey,.. have you figured out how you are getting to YAPC::NA?
21:56 nothingmuch no $$$
21:56 nothingmuch so no, i haven't
21:57 stevan hmmm, well if you can manage the plane cost,.. you can stay with me free
21:57 nothingmuch plane will be around $700 round trip
21:57 stevan you will just have to hide in the closet when the maid comes in
21:58 stevan try and get $work to pay for it
21:58 stevan tell em its vital to the business model
21:58 nothingmuch work is not in great financial conds
21:58 nothingmuch and they know it ain't ;)
21:58 nothingmuch again, small co
21:58 stevan what about mom and dad? you got a birthday coming up or something?
21:59 nothingmuch i'm richer than them =)
22:00 stevan nothingmuch: I am running out of ideas here :)
22:00 stevan we are back to selling your body parts
22:02 nothingmuch damn
22:02 nothingmuch YAML is not being nice
22:05 justatheory has joined #perl6
22:07 metaperl_ has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:07 metaperl__ is now known as metaperl_
22:09 jabbot pugs - 1923 - More pleac^Wcookbook comments, XXX marke
22:17 nothingmuch it calls the sub in scalar context!
22:18 nothingmuch ack!
22:18 nothingmuch run away run away!
22:21 cognominal has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
22:22 cognominal has joined #perl6
22:26 stevan off for dinner,... &
22:29 jabbot pugs - 1924 - test a few escaped characters in strings
22:36 ninereasons has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:39 ninereasons has joined #perl6
22:55 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
22:55 stevan nothingmuch: ping
22:56 wolverian has joined #perl6
22:59 jabbot pugs - 1925 - test stringified array
23:01 Ovid has joined #perl6
23:01 stevan nothingmuch: check your email
23:01 stevan hey Ovid
23:02 stevan bye ovid
23:02 Ovid Hi stevan
23:02 Ovid Bye steven
23:02 * stevan goes back upstairs for dinner :)
23:02 Ovid s/steven/stevan/
23:02 stevan Ovid: you are not the first person to mess up the spelling and surely not the last :)
23:03 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
23:07 gcom Juerd: ping
23:11 domm has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
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23:11 gcom Ovid: you around?
23:12 Ovid Yes, but working.
23:12 gcom k, i want to  hit you up later to talk about pod in Cookbook examples
23:12 gcom obviously it would have to be somewhat clean-room to avoid copyright violation
23:13 gcom not even sure if it's wanted/needed though
23:13 gcom i'll probably be online later or tomorrow though, no rush on that one
23:13 Ovid Good point.  I was wondering about this issue.  Should we touch base with O'Reilly?
23:14 gcom yeah, i don't know, i feel like venturing toward filling out the pods, cause questions coming up in comments seem to be asking for it
23:14 gcom i don't own a perl cookbook though, so perhaps it's safe for me to venture forth (used to own one a long time ago)
23:15 Ovid I know a few folks who work there.  Let me shoot an email and see what they say.
23:15 gcom cool
23:15 gcom thanks
23:15 Ovid np
23:16 gcom later then, i gotta get back to work too :)
23:16 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:16 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
23:17 Ovid Email sent.
23:19 Limbic_Region hey Ovid - what's shaking?
23:19 Ovid Not much.  Working right now.
23:20 * Limbic_Region forgets you are 3 hours behind
23:20 * Ovid works late, too.
23:20 Ovid Though I would prefer to be 5 hours ahead ...
23:21 shapr Come to Sweden!
23:21 Ovid God, I'd love to.  So close to all of my family, but so far from a job :(
23:22 shapr Your family is in Sweden?
23:22 mugwump has joined #perl6
23:22 shapr g'day mugwump
23:22 mugwump morning!
23:22 * mugwump is slowly making it back into his home TZ
23:23 Ovid No.  My dad lives in Germany, one brother's in London and then another brother and sister are a couple of hours north of London.  Essentially, all of the family I have any serious contact with live on that side of the pond.
23:23 Ovid That's one of the reasons I miss living in Amsterdam.  Family.
23:23 shapr Wow, your family migrates more than mine.
23:24 Ovid No.  My father just slept around a lot.  My sister in the UK is three weeks younger than I am.
23:24 shapr oh
23:24 Ovid :)
23:24 shapr I have no idea how to respond to that statement.
23:24 Ovid No problem.  At this point, it's rather amusing.
23:24 mugwump does it run in the family?  ;-)
23:24 Ovid (though I doubt my mother thought so at the time)
23:25 Ovid Of course not!  I tell all of my women that I'm seeing others :)
23:25 * shapr laughs
23:29 mugwump I don't like to volunteer the information.  But if they ask, well, they get what they deserve for their suspicion
23:30 shapr I'm just monogamous. Having tried polyamory, I decided monogamy was for me.
23:31 mugwump It's certainly a more pragmatic choice
23:32 mugwump nice combigism btw (polyarmory), you should add that to the dicshunary.com
23:33 * shapr snickers
23:33 shapr A telepathic journal is totally mind-blogging!
23:33 Ovid Heh
23:36 Odin- shapr: Please remain where you are. The Pun Police are on their way.
23:36 * shapr sniggers
23:37 shapr The Punisher approaches!
23:37 * Odin- notifies the SWAT.
23:40 * Limbic_Region is too lazy for more than 1 woman, which suits his wife just fine
23:41 hlen_ has quit IRC ("use vim")
23:42 Ovid My best friend and I have been in a relationship with the same woman for years.  Kind of freaks a few people out.
23:42 shapr question is, is your best friend that woman?
23:42 Ovid Heh, no.
23:43 khisanth_ has joined #perl6
23:43 oylenshpeegul has joined #perl6
23:43 Limbic_Region I was in a situation where one gf told me she didn't care if I was with the other gf as long as I was with her and the other gf said the same thing about the first
23:43 Khisanth has quit IRC (Nick collision from services.)
23:43 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
23:44 Limbic_Region everyman's dream right - not mine
23:44 Limbic_Region too much work/hassle
23:44 shapr That's most of my problem with polyamory as well.
23:44 shapr polylogistics make category theory look so simple.
23:45 Limbic_Region Ovid - doesn't really freak me out but makes me wonder who has what plans for the future
23:45 ninereasons has quit IRC ("tired. going to sleep")
23:46 Ovid Limbic_Region:  not much I can say about that for privacy reasons, but she's decided to move in with him and it looks like they'll be buying a house together.  It's a good thing.
23:46 Limbic_Region *shrug* - who am I to say anything as long as all parties are happy
23:47 * Odin- notes that while you're complaining of having too many women, others complain of lack of them.
23:47 shapr Yeah, I agree with that.
23:47 Odin- Why is it that nobody seems to hit the right balance? ;>
23:48 Ovid I'm hardly complaining about too many women, actually.  I was kidding about my above comment about "telling them".  I have one woman with whom I am serious, but she's now my best friend's primary partner so I don't see as much of her as I used to.  Other than that, I date.
23:49 * justatheory has too many woman.
23:50 Ovid Well, you're about to in a few weeks.
23:50 justatheory Yow! So true.
23:50 justatheory s/woman/women/
23:50 * Ovid notes that no one would have any idea of the context of that comment.
23:50 Odin- Indeed.
23:50 justatheory Let them guess. :-)
23:51 Ovid :)
23:57 markstos has joined #perl6
23:58 shapr hiya mark

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