Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-04-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:00 mugwump I've written up a little "add an operator HOWTO" at http://pugs.kwiki.org/?PugsOperators
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00:08 stevan mugwump: very nice
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00:14 markstos mugwump: the screenshots were a nice touch.
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00:41 stevan autrijus: found a bug for you
00:41 stevan pugs -e 'my %h = ("a" => 1, "b" => 2); say %h{"a"} <=> %h{"b"} ?? "true" :: "false"'
00:41 stevan errs with : No compatible subroutine found: &h
00:41 stevan and that is only the begining of the fun
00:42 stevan <, <= and <=> do not work/parse properly with lists and hashes
00:42 stevan see t/pugsbugs/spaceship_and_datatypes.t  for more details
00:44 stevan I found this while adding more tests to t/builtins/list/sort.t
00:50 jabbot pugs - 1926 - adding tests to sort.t and a new pugsbug
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01:29 * mugwump orders a copy of TaPL & ATiTaPL
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01:33 nothingmuch bwahahahahaa!
01:34 nothingmuch HTMLMatrix now does everything that testgraph.pl does, except for the stuff that it doesn't
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02:13 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/mpeg_matrix.html
02:15 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/mock.html
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02:45 * mugwump boggles to see he is 300 commits behind on the pugs tree
02:47 crysflame i like watching it
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03:04 machack666 what is the expected behavior with hyper operators when you are dealing with lists of different sizes?  does it extend the shorter list, similar to the scalar promotion, or does it truncate the output list?
03:06 machack666 example: "say ((1..6) >>+<< (1,0))" yields the list (1,3).
03:07 machack666 but the argument could be made for the (1,0) list to be expanded in several ways: (1,0,1,0,1,0) -- ie, repetition.
03:07 machack666 or for a given operator, there is (may be) an identity element: 0, in this case.  So it would expand to (1,0,0,0,0,0).
03:08 machack666 Thoughts, anyone?
03:11 mugwump scanned p6l?  you may have hit a corner case no-one's talked about yet
03:13 mugwump However, I would expect that code to generate lots of undef warnings
03:13 machack666 I may forward the question there...
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03:13 mugwump and return (2,2,3,4,5,6)
03:13 mugwump (as undef numifies to 0)
03:14 machack666 how about the case (1..6) >>*<< (2) ? (2,0,0,0,0,0) ?
03:15 machack666 for multiplication, you could want the unidentified elements untouched
03:15 mugwump sure, because AIUI you can use a variant on the hyperoperator to say only one side is hyper,
03:15 mugwump ie
03:15 mugwump (1..6) >>* 2  # or something like that
03:16 machack666 I guess I'm trying to resolve the auto-promotion of a scalar to a list in the hyper-op case
03:17 machack666 presumably if you've done something like (1..6) >>*<< 3 it means one thing, but if you do (1..6) >>*<< (3) -- or some calculated value in parens, say -- you get a different value than expected.
03:18 machack666 you would either have to force scalar context on the rhs: (1..6) >>*<< +($a-$b)
03:18 machack666 or automatically promote the shorter list to an appropriate length
03:19 machack666 anyway, p6l is probably the appropriate place to discuss.  Sorry for the off-topic
03:19 mugwump true, I suppose it's a list operator, not an array operator
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05:38 nothingmuch ping?
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05:45 nothingmuch kungfuftr: ping
05:46 gaal morning
05:46 nothingmuch hola gaal
05:46 nothingmuch did you see the table output?
05:47 nothingmuch i wonder why we aren't just uising "<a title="tooltip"/>
05:47 nothingmuch newlines?
05:47 gaal ah! a title="wonderful"!
05:47 gaal dunno
05:48 gaal though - as i said before, it woudl be great to ahve this cutandpastable
05:48 gaal (i know, can't do that w/o js)
05:48 nothingmuch =(
05:48 gaal hey! you solved the msieproblem!
05:48 gaal nothingmuch++
05:49 gaal actually, it's probably not at all evil to use the title attrib, *and* add js that turns it into a selectable window. automatic graceful fallback!
05:50 gaal so just need to test this for newlines.
05:50 gaal speaking of which, your html doesn'
05:50 gaal t have them :)
05:50 nothingmuch i'll put it up soon
05:50 nothingmuch i know
05:50 nothingmuch 160kb less for mpeg audio frame tests
05:50 gaal w00t
05:51 nothingmuch and mod_gzip gets 2x more
05:51 gaal w0000t
05:51 gaal (though i find that surprising)
05:51 nothingmuch anyway, bbiab
05:51 gaal (it shgoud have compressed the old one much better)
05:51 nothingmuch i'll clean the code
05:51 gaal i have to go to $work now
05:51 nothingmuch it compress 460kb to 12kb
05:51 gaal see you later!
05:52 nothingmuch and 300kb to 8kb
05:52 nothingmuch ciao
05:52 gaal hasta luego
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07:03 ingy hola
07:03 ingy uploading new Perl6::Bible
07:04 ingy (say your prayers)
07:04 castaway ,)
07:04 ingy <---- sleepy time
07:04 ingy nighty
07:04 castaway night ingy
07:05 nothingmuch morning
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07:08 castaway mornin nm
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07:11 Entwicklung perl6 Bible ?
07:11 castaway on cpan, a module containing the Synopses and Apoca-whatsits, basically
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07:13 Entwicklung oh ok, i thought it was a new perl6 book
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07:20 autrijus greetings lambdacamels. this is but a short message saying I'll be off to $work for today and tomorrow, and try to find some time get PA02 outline done in between. I'll keep an eye on the irc log though. :)
07:20 autrijus &
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08:01 theorbtwo Where's the darcs repo for testgraph & friends.
08:03 Juerd gcom: pong
08:03 castaway 15:50 < nothingmuch> darcs get http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-Model
08:03 theorbtwo Thanks.
08:03 castaway (iek. /lastlog nothingmuch was a bit of an overkill search)
08:03 nothingmuch theorbtwo: testgraph is WIP
08:04 nothingmuch i have to clean stuff up
08:04 nothingmuch and i'm messing with CSS which is very slow progress
08:04 castaway WIP?
08:04 nothingmuch work in progress
08:04 castaway oh, work in progress
08:06 * theorbtwo nods.
08:07 theorbtwo Looks to be a complete rewrite.
08:08 nothingmuch i hate hate hate css
08:08 nothingmuch theorbtwo: not exactly
08:09 nothingmuch it's the good pieces taken out
08:09 theorbtwo nm: Everybody hates CSS.
08:09 nothingmuch but lots of refactoring
08:09 theorbtwo It's just better then the alternative.
08:09 nothingmuch it's so overly complicated
08:09 nothingmuch except that if it went that far it should have been even more complicated
08:09 theorbtwo Oh, I don't think it's overly complicated as much as not quite complicated enough in two places.
08:10 theorbtwo 1: Positioning should take an xpath of what to be rel. to.
08:10 nothingmuch it's a very broad spec, with too little depth
08:10 theorbtwo 2: You should be able to say "class foo should format like class bar, except...".
08:10 nothingmuch my grudge has always been with block layout
08:10 theorbtwo Those two things would make it much more usable.
08:10 nothingmuch it's 100% voodoo
08:10 theorbtwo Yeah, that's what 1 is meant to fix.
08:11 theorbtwo You end up with all sorts of tricks to say "put it /here/", where /here/ is where some other element is.
08:11 nothingmuch non breaking behavior
08:11 nothingmuch in the little details, i mean
08:11 nothingmuch margin, padding, border widths
08:11 nothingmuch these are the things that have always frustrated me
08:11 nothingmuch to tears
08:12 theorbtwo Hm, I don't have many problems with that, when I'm not being overly perfectionistic.
08:12 nothingmuch say
08:12 nothingmuch can you have a row whose columns are spaced as though independant from the other columns?
08:12 theorbtwo Use two sepperate tables.
08:13 nothingmuch that is if i have the columns in one row, and two in another, the columns of the second row have a colspan of 1.5
08:13 nothingmuch i'm trying to work around that
08:13 nothingmuch =)
08:13 theorbtwo Oh.
08:13 theorbtwo Not quite independent, then.
08:13 nothingmuch it's giving me trouble that border-spacing can only sort of solve
08:13 nothingmuch and i end up with yucky yucky fixes
08:13 theorbtwo Double the colspans everywhere, so that 1.5 becomes a 3, and a 1 becomes a 2.
08:14 theorbtwo (So they're all integral.)
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08:14 * castaway fetches tea and looks pointedly at theorbtwo.
08:15 theorbtwo Since the code is being generated by script, it's much less important that it be easy-to-write.
08:15 nothingmuch i'm trying to reduce size
08:15 nothingmuch testgraph.pl output is around 1mb last i checked
08:16 nothingmuch i can pull it down to about 400k
08:16 theorbtwo That'd be impressive.
08:16 nothingmuch (since it's xhtml that works)
08:16 nothingmuch and then another 25% by removing useless spaces
08:16 nothingmuch (foo | xmllint --noblanks - > foo.xml)
08:16 nothingmuch this makes it compress down to around 20k
08:16 nothingmuch but it still takes a long while to render
08:17 nothingmuch anyway, i think i'll give up trying to tweak this little diddly
08:17 nothingmuch it's just really annoying that the little test case blocks have some spacing around them
08:17 theorbtwo If there's no spacing around them, how to you tell where one block stops and the next begins?
08:18 nothingmuch there's a border
08:18 nothingmuch table.m td { padding: 0; margin: 2px; }
08:18 nothingmuch table.m { margin: 0; margin-bottom: 2px; border-spacing: 2px 0; empty-cells: hide }
08:18 nothingmuch that's the best i can do
08:18 nothingmuch the little cells are spaced between them
08:18 nothingmuch but they act as one unit
08:19 nothingmuch almost
08:19 nothingmuch except that i have to pull weird tricks to control the margins of: the bottom most table (margin:0)
08:19 nothingmuch the leftmost colum of ever table (margin-left: 0) and the ditto for the rightmosst
08:19 theorbtwo OK, I see what you're doing.
08:19 nothingmuch the last two are easy with CSS
08:19 theorbtwo More or less.
08:20 nothingmuch the table margin thing must be controlled within the templating and i hate doing stuff like that
08:20 nothingmuch it's just aweful to maintain
08:20 * theorbtwo shrugs.
08:20 nothingmuch i think i'll give up for now, leave that commented in the css
08:21 nothingmuch and someone with more mojo might look at it later
08:21 * theorbtwo nods.
08:22 theorbtwo Re making it smaller, I take it that you're using custom &foo;s to compress out the common bits?
08:23 nothingmuch custom what?
08:23 castaway entities
08:23 nothingmuch ah, no
08:23 nothingmuch classes are one char where possible
08:23 nothingmuch there's less elements
08:23 nothingmuch overall the structure is more concise
08:23 nothingmuch that is all
08:23 theorbtwo Ah.
08:23 castaway html obfu?
08:23 theorbtwo Nifty.
08:23 nothingmuch castaway: actually more readable, IMHO ;-)
08:24 theorbtwo I wasn't optimizing for size or readability; I was optimizing for getting it out the door.
08:24 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/testgraph.petal
08:24 castaway generally one does
08:25 nothingmuch view source
08:25 nothingmuch otherwise it will probably try to be very witty and display it
08:25 nothingmuch which sort of works anywho
08:25 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/mock.html
08:27 theorbtwo Oh, no wonder yours is so much simpiler; I was avoiding a title on purpose.
08:27 theorbtwo ...and you don't have links.
08:28 nothingmuch i do have links
08:28 nothingmuch not for mock though
08:28 nothingmuch since it's a p5 module
08:28 nothingmuch if there is the possibility for a link, one is generated
08:28 nothingmuch and why were you avoiding a title?
08:28 nothingmuch i started with your <div>s, but they are not valid
08:28 theorbtwo Most browsers don't handle them with multiple lines.
08:28 nothingmuch hmm
08:29 nothingmuch i think maybe we should try to get some hybrid solution for them
08:29 theorbtwo It wasn't until I tried viewing it on IE that I realized that multiple lines would be good in this context.
08:29 nothingmuch title normally
08:29 nothingmuch but javascript + div if supported?
08:29 theorbtwo Ew, js.
08:30 * theorbtwo shrugs.
08:31 nothingmuch oh my
08:31 theorbtwo Really, I'm more or less of a "whatever works" theory.
08:31 theorbtwo But CSS seems to work with less work then JS.
08:31 theorbtwo ...and work better then a title.
08:31 nothingmuch but it's flakey
08:31 nothingmuch browsers should die
08:31 nothingmuch that's one place where I wouldn't mind monopoly
08:31 nothingmuch css does
08:31 nothingmuch on safari it looks pretty aweful
08:32 nothingmuch not that it's easy to get it right
08:32 castaway looked better on Opera than firefox ,)
08:32 theorbtwo Hm, I haven't tested on safari at all, but it looked perfect on konq last I tried.
08:32 nothingmuch well, anway
08:32 theorbtwo Eh, not after a tiny workaround.
08:32 castaway :)
08:33 * castaway attempts to get some stuff done, in the hope that she can fit in some test writing after.
08:33 * theorbtwo actually gets some tea.
08:33 shapr gimme some tea! T!
08:33 * shapr boings
08:33 * shapr waves pom-poms
08:34 * castaway passes shapr some tea.
08:34 castaway mornin bouncy
08:34 * shapr slurps noisily
08:34 shapr Good morning! How ah yah?
08:34 theorbtwo Hey!
08:34 castaway not to bad.. pondering writing some tests
08:35 theorbtwo I thought you said you left me tea in the thermos!
08:35 castaway I did ?
08:35 castaway I did !
08:35 theorbtwo About 3mL.
08:35 shapr I didn't drink it!
08:35 castaway oops
08:35 castaway sowwy
08:36 castaway make new?
08:37 nothingmuch ok, now to refactor Model so that HTMLMatrix is cleaner
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09:06 kungfuftr *sob*
09:06 kungfuftr no more automated builds of pugs for me, my build machine just can't cope any more
09:07 kungfuftr nothingmuch: looking good
09:08 nothingmuch kungfuftr: you can cut down prolly
09:08 nothingmuch consolidated smoking should be here real soon now
09:08 nothingmuch sleep 1200 between each smoke, that should be good enough
09:08 kungfuftr nothingmuch: it takes 50 minutes to build and test puhs on my box
09:08 kungfuftr =0)
09:08 kungfuftr but it's now hitting swap
09:09 kungfuftr =0)
09:09 nothingmuch ah
09:09 nothingmuch that's aweful
09:10 castaway eep :)
09:12 * kungfuftr needs to replace his server, it's a bit ancient
09:12 kungfuftr gollem: OI
09:13 kungfuftr nothingmuch: have you got Test::TAP on freepan?
09:13 nothingmuch kungfuftr: no, no releng work yet
09:13 nothingmuch patches welcome for module::build madness
09:14 nothingmuch copyrights
09:14 nothingmuch etc
09:14 * nothingmuch is documenting and testing
09:17 kungfuftr nothingmuch: iirc you can just use freepan as an archive and then tag for release (for releng)
09:17 nothingmuch kungfuftr: the code is up
09:17 nothingmuch publicly
09:18 nothingmuch if that's what you want
09:18 kungfuftr =0)
09:18 nothingmuch darcs get http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-Model
09:18 nothingmuch and soon http://nothingmuch.woobling.org​/Test-TAP-Visualize-HTMLMatrix
09:18 kungfuftr =0)
09:18 nothingmuch (doc blitz now)
09:18 kungfuftr tests?!
09:18 nothingmuch tests?
09:19 nothingmuch !
09:19 nothingmuch kungfuftr: ?
09:20 * kungfuftr hides
09:20 nothingmuch what did you mean?
09:21 * kungfuftr & work # damn javascript
09:22 nothingmuch dwheeler wrote Test::More for javascript
09:22 nothingmuch =)
09:22 kungfuftr fckeditor-- # confusing the shit outta me
09:23 scw Hi, there is a parse error but I cannot find out how it happens
09:23 castaway is one where?
09:24 scw %h<a> < %h<b>   being parsed as    %h{'a'}{'%h<b'}
09:24 castaway nice..
09:25 scw seems like the qw literal eats trailing spaces but my last rivision didn't fix it
09:25 castaway add a test for it? (I think someone had that recently)
09:25 castaway sure you're using the latest?
09:25 scw svn HEAD
09:25 nothingmuch wjat
09:26 nothingmuch what's a good way to distributre an html and a css with a p5 module
09:29 kungfuftr nothingmuch: "htdocs" folder?
09:29 nothingmuch and where will that be installed?
09:29 kungfuftr not sure
09:30 nothingmuch know of a module that does that?
09:30 kungfuftr look at maypole to see how it handles it
09:31 castaway Makefile.PL has ways of installing things other than module stuff
09:31 nothingmuch i don't want to step on anyone's feet
09:31 nothingmuch castaway: the how is more simpler than the decisions themselves
09:31 theorbtwo I'd say just install them next to the .pm file.
09:32 castaway lots of things have extra templates etc..
09:32 nothingmuch is there a cheap way to find that?
09:32 nothingmuch i can think of catfile(dirname($INC{__PACKGE__}), "template.html")
09:32 castaway most seem to stick them in the lib dir
09:33 castaway eg /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.4/i686​-linux-thread-multi/Prima/examples
09:33 theorbtwo That'd do it.
09:33 castaway shouldnt need to
09:33 nothingmuch http://search.cpan.org/~str​o/FindBin-Real-1.04/Real.pm
09:33 nothingmuch i'd like that per module =/
09:33 * castaway looks for the other way
09:34 theorbtwo $INC{__PACKAGE__} should always be correct... I think.
09:35 nothingmuch ingy: ping # you probably know a lot about this with all your crazy modules
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09:36 Juerd scw: Shouldn't <> inside <> nest properly anyway?
09:36 Juerd scw: i.e. < %h<b> needing another > to even be valid syntax
09:36 castaway his use Module::Install
09:39 * castaway cant find any sane ones
09:40 Juerd theorbtwo: That's $INC{+__PACKAGE__}. The + is needed to avoid unquoted string interpretation.
09:41 Juerd And isn't it filename instead of package?
09:41 Juerd Foo/Bar.pm instead of Foo::Bar
09:44 theorbtwo Hm, that it is.
09:45 castaway hmm, less */Makefile.PL is entertaining :)
09:46 theorbtwo perl -e 'sub findininc {my $file=shift; foreach (@INC) {return "$_/$file" if -e "$_/$file"}}; print findininc("strict.pm")'
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10:10 gaal_ what's the simplest way to print a typeset verstion of the p6 bible?
10:11 gaal_ e.g. how do you print plenty of pod (and make it look good)?
10:13 Juerd There's some pod-to-pdf project
10:14 Juerd They also publish ready to use pdf's of perldocs
10:14 Juerd But I have no idea where to find it, so you'll have to google for it :)
10:18 kungfuftr pod2latex and pod2pdf are available
10:18 gaal_ thanks
10:19 kungfuftr gaal_: http://search.cpan.org/~stas/Pod-HtmlPsPdf-0.04/
10:19 gaal_ stas++
10:33 nothingmuch wait(lunch->pid); $? == E_DISAPPOINTING
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10:46 darobin hi
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10:46 darobin is there a Pugs FAQ before I bore everyone to death with compilation problems?
10:46 nothingmuch darobin: i doubt it will cover it
10:46 jjjjjl hi can someone help me, I have a popup_menu that users select a particular option, once the selects the option and submits the form, How do call a sub routine eqauling the selction made ?
10:47 Juerd jjjjjl: And all this in Perl 6? :)
10:47 nothingmuch jjjjjl: you are probably using perl5 (#perl) and even then we need to know what you wrote it with
10:47 darobin nothingmuch: ok, it's just failing while compiling Lexer with RTLD_NEXT undefined (on OSX)
10:47 castaway dispatch table, jjjjjl
10:48 Juerd castaway: If they even knew what that is, would they have asked that question? :)
10:48 darobin I can't possibly be the only one trying to build Pugs on OSX :)
10:48 nothingmuch darcs get http://nothingmuch.woobling.org​/Test-TAP-Visualize-HTMLMatrix
10:48 * castaway just grins
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10:48 nothingmuch darobin: oone second
10:48 nothingmuch what's your GHC version?
10:48 castaway Juerd: its about as understandable as the question :)
10:48 darobin 6.4
10:49 * nothingmuch tries to figure out if RTLD_NEXT is from some external lib
10:49 nothingmuch fink ghc?
10:49 Juerd castaway: Really? I first understood the question after reading the answer :)
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10:49 darobin nothingmuch: no, grabbed it off the ghc page
10:49 nothingmuch that's what i'm using too
10:49 nothingmuch and it worked for me
10:49 nothingmuch so far
10:49 darobin weird
10:49 nothingmuch one minute
10:50 castaway Well I could be completely wrong.
10:50 rgs hi darobin.
10:51 darobin hi!
10:51 nothingmuch nm on pugs and the libraries it uses (otool -L) do not list 'RTLD_NEXT'
10:52 nothingmuch darobin: what's your gcc_select?
10:52 darobin it's an ifdef, maybe if I set it to 0 it'll work
10:52 darobin 2.6
10:52 nothingmuch ghc uses gcc as a backend iirc, also on osx
10:52 nothingmuch try 3.3
10:53 darobin okay, thanks
10:53 nothingmuch hmm
10:53 nothingmuch has to do with dynamic loading
10:53 nothingmuch are you trying to do anything with hs-plugins?
10:54 nothingmuch i haven't tried that, and it could be the reason
10:54 nothingmuch can you 'ld -ldl'?
10:54 darobin aha, I think I've found something
10:54 jjjjjl i did it in perl 5
10:54 nothingmuch jjjjjl: so #perl is the channel to ask on
10:54 castaway jjjjjl: This is not a perl5 channel
10:54 nothingmuch jjjjjl: but you need to give them more info anyway
10:55 * darobin tries to see if his idea fixed it
10:55 nothingmuch darobin: what was your idea?
10:56 darobin I found an old .h that didn't have RTLD_NEXT and I'm thinking that it was picking up this one instead of the other which has it
10:56 nothingmuch ah
10:56 darobin it's the kind of obvious thing you can only think of after having asked on IRC...
10:57 nothingmuch darobin++
10:58 castaway meetong o'clock, later folks
10:58 nothingmuch ciao castaway
10:59 * theorbtwo gives castaway a quick kiss and sends her on her way.
11:00 nothingmuch theorbtwo: please download HTMLMatrix and run example.pl
11:00 nothingmuch oh wait, i have to update Test-TAP-Model
11:02 darobin hurrah, it builds, testing...
11:02 darobin nothingmuch: thanks!
11:02 nothingmuch darobin: http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status <-- results head revision, to save you some time, if you want
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11:03 darobin nothingmuch: thanks, I'll run them to see if it matches
11:04 nothingmuch i'm working on refactoring and releasing the tools which are used to create that stuff
11:04 nothingmuch those were the darcs repos i posted
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11:08 * darobin now needs to find an excuse to play with Pugs
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11:17 nothingmuch if you pull from both repos it should work now
11:17 nothingmuch i forgot to say: darcs push was done a while ago
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11:25 rgs apparently #perl6 is the 63rd biggest channel on freenode
11:29 * castaway returns (quick meetings)++
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12:11 castaway Hmm.. C-x o does "other-window", is there a way of getting to a specific window, when you have several?
12:12 autark-jp C-x b
12:13 castaway thats buffer, not window
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12:13 autark-jp ah
12:13 castaway I want to go to it, not bring it to me .)
12:15 nothingmuch theorbtwo: i have to do some other stuff now
12:15 nothingmuch do you want to patch *TAP* for rel?
12:15 nothingmuch copyright etc?
12:15 nothingmuch if you do it i'll release it now
12:15 * castaway suddenly notices she asked in the wrong channel ,)
12:16 nothingmuch if you feel like bothing with Module::Build et al, you can just go ahead and release, period
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12:40 stevan nothingmuch: ping
12:40 nothingmuch pong
12:41 nothingmuch darcs get http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-Tap-{Model,Visualize-HTMLMatrix}
12:41 stevan nothingmuch: yes I saw
12:42 nothingmuch comments?
12:42 stevan nothingmuch: very impressed :)
12:43 stevan I was thinking, with the "where to put the HTML" question
12:43 stevan you might want to just put it as a __DATA__ section in a package
12:43 nothingmuch that complicates things with Petal
12:43 stevan and let perl figure out where it is
12:43 nothingmuch and i also want it to be accessible
12:43 stevan oh
12:43 stevan oh well.. it was a thought :)
12:43 nothingmuch it's a hackable template
12:44 nothingmuch so i'd like to encourage hacking it
12:44 nothingmuch i might resort to __DATA__
12:44 stevan well if it is hackable,.. do you really want it in the perl libs dir?
12:44 nothingmuch but for now i'd like to try and find a more open solution
12:45 stevan perl -MTest::TAP::Visualize::Template -e get_template > ~/Desktop/my_template.petal
12:45 stevan something like that
12:45 stevan so people can make their own copy easily
12:45 nothingmuch hmm
12:45 nothingmuch good point
12:46 stevan ideally I would not want to mess with the perl INC dirs to change the tempalte
12:46 nothingmuch i like that
12:46 stevan and be able to pull in my own from anywhere
12:46 castaway hmm,m have it like CPAN et al, it looks for a local $HOME/.XX version, else defaults to the one in lib ?
12:46 nothingmuch you don't need to
12:46 stevan :)
12:46 nothingmuch you can do that
12:46 stevan cool
12:46 nothingmuch just give it a Petal objec
12:46 nothingmuch t
12:47 nothingmuch and it will send it (page => $self)
12:47 stevan castaway: good idea too
12:47 stevan ~/.test-tap-home
12:47 nothingmuch eek, i'm not writing a config system
12:47 stevan ok,.. version 0.02 we will do that :)
12:47 nothingmuch patches welcome either way
12:48 * castaway may look... (somewhen :)
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12:49 rob_ hmm, just wondering what you guys would think of a distributed module service for perl6, much like zeroinstall, but taken a step further
12:49 stevan scw: did r1932 fix the space eating problem? I was confused by your comments while reading the backlog
12:50 castaway distributed? didnt someone want to try that?
12:50 castaway lots of "dont want to run modules from other peoples servers" complaints, iirc
12:50 stevan castaway: I agree,.. that makes me nervous
12:50 rob_ castaway: well but they dont have a problem with running from cpan
12:50 stevan rob_: but we download it local first
12:50 castaway rob_ you dont run from cpan, you download, install, run from locally
12:51 stevan rob_: it is less about malicious module authors
12:51 rob_ so why not simply using cpan as a dispatcher, and only dispatch to "signed", confirmed, whatever modules
12:51 stevan and more about man-in-middle stuff
12:51 castaway that way you know what you have.. running from somewhere else at runtime, someone could change it, and you wouldnt know
12:51 castaway go read the perlmonks thread on it.. probably by gmpassos
12:52 stevan rob_: what happens if your server crashes during my mission critical program?
12:52 rob_ stevan: you know zeroinstall? its much like that what i would like to see happen with perl modules
12:52 * castaway doesnt know it
12:52 stevan rob_: not familiar,... got links?
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12:53 stevan rob_: this? http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/
12:53 rob_ stevan: http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/
12:53 rob_ right :)
12:54 rob_ i think thats a _very_ neat project and would really like to see it beeing used in some real world scenario
12:54 stevan rob_: it is very cool
12:54 stevan http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/security.html
12:55 stevan it says: No downloaded software is ever run as root, or as any user except the one who asked to run it.
12:55 stevan getting perl libs to cooperate like that might be hard
12:55 rob_ hmm.
12:55 stevan you would almost need to run them inside some kind of "jail"
12:55 nothingmuch i disagree
12:55 nothingmuch i think there should be support for it
12:56 nothingmuch but that it should not be "the" way
12:56 stevan rob_: I like the idea of distributed automatic installations
12:56 nothingmuch i think i have about 2000 lines of patches code in my @INC
12:56 nothingmuch s/ed\b//;
12:56 castaway hmm, its interesting, yes..
12:56 nothingmuch sometimes i need fine grained control of where
12:56 nothingmuch or what
12:56 nothingmuch i think a facility to install it
12:57 castaway As an optional WTDI, it could work
12:57 stevan yeah,.. what nothingmuch said (which is much better than what I was typing)
12:57 nothingmuch like 'export PERL5OPT="-MCPAN::ZeroInstall"'
12:57 stevan rob_: give ingy and mugwump a ping and talk to them about FreePAN
12:57 nothingmuch but i don't want mission critical software falling to bits because of a slightly incompatible fix to a piece of software
12:57 castaway but as I said, may also be useful reading the perlmonks thread
12:58 castaway right, so you'd need to be able to specify exactly which versions of what to use/get
12:59 rob_ well, that should be done in the programm like 'use Foo:bar >=1.04'
12:59 rob_ or similar
12:59 castaway Also we do a bunch of stuff that gets installed on machines without internet connections, so still being able to bundle modules is a must
12:59 nothingmuch also, lots of times CPAN.pm and especially CPANPLUS just don't work:
13:00 nothingmuch http proxy mess
13:00 rob_ castaway: sure that should not be the _standard_ way to go, but as an option it would be really nice
13:00 nothingmuch firewall rules
13:00 nothingmuch mirror down
13:00 nothingmuch permissions bad
13:00 castaway OTOH an easy way to install such a zeroinstall *server* here, would be nice to send out updates with :)
13:00 castaway yup, rob_, if you can get people over the security aspects
13:00 nothingmuch so when it happens it needs to be very robust
13:01 nothingmuch transactionally designed
13:01 castaway nm, it only has to fetch once, after that it stays 'installed'
13:01 stevan nothingmuch: transactional ++
13:01 nothingmuch allowing deterministic manual intervention
13:01 nothingmuch on the first go it might break
13:01 nothingmuch and if it breaks, you most definately don't want it to be stuck broken
13:01 castaway sure
13:01 nothingmuch so detection of breakage should be very pedantic
13:01 nothingmuch and should be revertable
13:01 castaway yesindeedy
13:01 nothingmuch and so on and so forth
13:01 stevan support for the "if is aint broke, dont fix it crowd"
13:02 nothingmuch it could be useful, but only if it's done absolutely right
13:02 stevan I know myself there are some servers where I dont want to update
13:02 * castaway thinks rob_ should go off and write a spec :)
13:04 nothingmuch btw, rob_ eq dargonchild?
13:04 stevan nothingmuch: I dont think so (he is at work, rob_ seems to be on a dialin)
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13:26 rob_ damn, my ssh tunnel just broke.
13:26 * nothingmuch hates when that happens
13:26 rob_ nothingmuch: no, rob_ != dargonchild
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13:36 mj any volunteers? WinXP File::Spec abs2rel:
13:36 mj pugs -e "use File::Spec; say 'begin'; say abs2rel( '\a' , '\b' ); say 'end';"      # begin <Inf loop>
13:36 mj perl -e "use File::Spec::Functions qw(abs2rel); print abs2rel( '\a' , '\b' );"   # ..\a
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13:54 stevan mj: I havent had time to look at it, but feel free if you want to try
13:54 stevan and let me know if you need commit access, and I can set you up
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13:58 mj i have one as rootmj
13:59 mj some porting and then i can try
13:59 ninereasons eep.  hangman is broken :(  that will never do.
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14:12 mj perl -e "use File::Spec::Functions; print catfile( '' ,'a' );"            # \a
14:12 mj pugs -e "use File::Spec; print catfile( '' , 'a' );"                            # \\\a
14:12 kungfuftr ie-- # caching git
14:12 kungfuftr apache++ # get ie to behave properly
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14:24 ninereasons is the start of the array index invariable in perl6 ?  S28draft sounds to me like $[ is going away and probably not being replaced ?
14:24 masak ninereasons: is there a need to keep it variable?
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14:24 PerlJam ninereasons: yes.  arrays always start at 0
14:25 castaway hooray :)
14:25 ninereasons I don't think so; but it's been drummed into me that the end of the array in perl is $#a not necessarily @a-1
14:25 ninereasons ^masak
14:25 ninereasons hooray, PerlJam
14:25 castaway well unlearn it :) (plus those terms change anyway)
14:26 wolverian @a.last (.end?)
14:26 ninereasons gladly, castaway :)
14:26 ninereasons @a.end
14:26 wolverian are there .head and .tail, by the way?
14:27 wolverian (the functional me speaking..)
14:27 castaway .end
14:27 castaway would be nice :)
14:27 PerlJam wolverian: I don't think so.
14:27 PerlJam Could be though.
14:27 wolverian PerlJam: is it a made decision, or just something that hasn't come up?
14:27 PerlJam Wouldn't take much to implement
14:27 ninereasons .end is specced i believe, castaway
14:27 PerlJam wolverian: I don't think I've seen anyone mention it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't come up
14:28 PerlJam ninereasons: yeah, last I checked we has .begin and .end
14:28 PerlJam s/has/had/
14:28 PerlJam But my head has it those were subject to change
14:28 wolverian method List::head { .[0] } method List::tail { .[1...] } # works? :)
14:28 PerlJam (well, more subject to change than anything else I mean ;-)
14:28 mj # load text from fiel ... better solutions?
14:28 mj    for (=$tut_fh) -> $line {
14:28 mj        $file_t ~= $line;    
14:28 mj    }
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14:29 wolverian mj: slurp()
14:29 wolverian if it's implemented, anyway. :)
14:30 masak has left
14:31 mj great, slurp rules
14:31 * wolverian slurps mj
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14:36 xern anyone used Regexp::Parser before?
14:37 gugod orz ªº¿ù»~¥Îªk
14:37 gugod outch
14:37 gugod sorry, wrong channel
14:37 xern i'm planning to write a conversion tool for p5regexp to p6regexp
14:37 xern Orz....
14:37 xern which will be embedded in p5_to_p6.pl
14:37 PerlJam xern: good luck!
14:37 castaway (that looked like p6 operators tho)
14:37 castaway hmm, is that part of the YAPE explain thingy?
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14:38 xern PerlJam: thanks
14:39 xern castaway: what looks like p6 op?
14:39 castaway the stuff that gugod just pasted :)
14:39 xern i see
14:40 stevan ninereasons: I suspect hangman is broken because the AUTHORs file changes
14:41 ninereasons do you think so? I still haven't had a chance to look at it, stevan;
14:41 xern castaway: it's a ascii glyph mimicking someone kneeling on the floor, commonly used in zh-tw community now
14:41 stevan looking now
14:41 Jouke_ has joined #perl6
14:41 ninereasons it appeared to me though as though maybe pick_committer wasn't working
14:41 Jouke_ has left
14:42 stevan ninereasons: nope I was wrong
14:43 ninereasons rats.  i liked that possibility better.
14:43 stevan any(@committers).pick is broken
14:43 stevan it returns all of them :)
14:44 castaway oops :)
14:44 ninereasons that's what it looked like to me
14:44 ninereasons from the output
14:44 ninereasons How about if I change it to rand, temporarily?
14:44 stevan ninereasons: let me see if I can isolate the pick issue
14:44 ninereasons better yet.
14:45 stevan hmm t/junction/misc_junctions.t  works
14:45 stevan must be .pick()
14:45 ninereasons so it's not any, it's pick
14:45 ninereasons jinx
14:46 stevan examples/junctions/lottery_numbers.p6 works
14:46 stevan so it looks like any().pick is not working
14:46 stevan but my $j = any(); $j.pick does
14:46 * stevan writes up a test case
14:50 ninereasons a naive substitution of $j.pick doesn't work.
14:50 stevan pugs -e 'say any(1 .. 100).pick()'
14:50 stevan that works
14:50 stevan hmmm
14:50 ninereasons strange.
14:50 stevan (the plot thickens
14:52 * ninereasons likes perl6.vim - very pretty.
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14:53 mj and slurp equivalent for save ?
14:53 scw Juerd: I don't know, in fact.  I just modifyed existing code # 17:36
14:53 mj open, pritn FH $text; close;
14:54 scw stevan: Err, only in string interpolate # 20:49
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14:54 scw Ouch, I forgot I'm in +0800..
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14:59 stevan very strange
14:59 stevan pugs -e 'my @a = ("one", "two", "three"); sub foo (@a) { my $t = any(@a).pick(); say ref($t); say $t }; foo(@a)'
14:59 stevan returns:
14:59 stevan Array
14:59 stevan one two three
14:59 stevan s/returns/prints/
15:00 stevan but yet : pugs -e 'my @a = ("one", "two", "three"); my $t = any(@a).pick(); say ref($t); say $t'
15:00 stevan does the right thting
15:00 * castaway boggles
15:01 stevan just changing line 111 to this:
15:01 stevan my $current_committer = any(@committers).pick(); #pick_committer(@committers);
15:01 stevan makes hangman work
15:02 ninereasons shouldn't it work as is?  
15:03 ninereasons what's the difference between returning the product of any, and returning any()'s product?
15:03 stevan ninereasons: it seems to have something to do with being executed inside a sub
15:03 stevan (really odd)
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15:04 ninereasons yes, stevan
15:07 stevan ninereasons: even stranger
15:07 stevan pugs -e 'sub foo2 { any(1 .. 10).pick() }; say foo2()'
15:07 stevan works
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15:08 ninereasons integer list?
15:09 stevan no,.. one int
15:09 mj how to grab STDOUT and STERR with pugs?
15:09 ninereasons I mean, the argument to pick
15:09 ninereasons er.. any
15:09 stevan ninereasons: ? i dint understand?
15:09 ninereasons nvmind - I'm grasping at straws
15:10 stevan ninereasons: no I understand now
15:10 stevan no the int fails as well
15:10 ninereasons yeah, i saw here too
15:11 stevan it seems to be something related to array args and such
15:12 ninereasons my @a = (1..3); sub foo (@a) { my $t = any(1..3).pick(); say ref($t); say $t }; foo(@a)
15:12 stevan ninereasons: see t/pugsbugs/junction_any_pick.t
15:12 ninereasons Int : 3
15:13 stevan weird
15:13 stevan add to the test case
15:13 stevan please :)(
15:13 ninereasons need to clean it up; i put nonsense in it
15:14 stevan ninereasons: svn revert is your friend :)
15:16 ninereasons it's the same as your last test case, when you subtract the nonsense, stevan.
15:17 stevan ninereasons: add the passing one though (that worked)
15:17 mj pugs -e "my $out; open $*OUT,'>', \$out;"
15:17 mj pugs: cannot cast from VHandle {handle: <stdout>} to [Char]
15:17 stevan mj: not sure that works yet
15:18 stevan mj: what exactly are you doing? sounds like something interesting..
15:18 mj so tutorial porting stopped .... http://wiki.kn.vutbr.cz/mj/attach/pugs/tu​t-root/tut-output/hello-world-ad.p6.html
15:19 stevan mj: very cool
15:19 ninereasons got it:
15:19 ninereasons sub foo (@a) { my $t = any(@a).pick(); say ref($t); say $t }; foo(1..3)
15:19 stevan that works?
15:20 ninereasons Int
15:20 ninereasons 2
15:20 ninereasons max weird :)
15:20 stevan ninereasons: very nice
15:20 stevan please add the passing case to the t/pugsbugs/junctions_any_pick.t and fix hangman to use that :)
15:20 stevan (and make sure to add yourself to the hangman authors list
15:23 ninereasons some generous person has already added me, stevan
15:24 stevan svn blame must have listed you
15:24 stevan ninereasons: you cant hide form svn :)
15:25 ninereasons :)
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15:27 ninereasons ooh.  much nicer:
15:27 ninereasons my @b = (1..3); sub foo (@a) { my $t = any(@a).pick(); say ref($t); say $t }; foo(*@b);
15:27 ninereasons Int
15:27 ninereasons 3
15:27 ninereasons there's the bug, then
15:28 Corion has joined #perl6
15:28 ninereasons diff @b  *@b
15:29 mj41 has joined #perl6
15:29 stevan ninereasons++
15:30 ninereasons eek.  karma scares me
15:30 stevan why?
15:30 nothingmuch perlbot karma ninereasons:
15:30 perlbot ninereasons: doesn't have any karma
15:30 nothingmuch eh?
15:30 nothingmuch perlbot karma ninereasons
15:30 perlbot Karma for ninereasons: 1
15:30 nothingmuch what's so scary?
15:31 ninereasons doom and karma are wed in my mind ;)
15:31 nothingmuch ninereasons--
15:31 stevan doom the game? or doom as in "impending doom"
15:31 nothingmuch better? ;-)
15:32 mj41 mj is waiting for io_redirect_to_scalar
15:33 ninereasons better :)
15:34 * nothingmuch waits patiently
15:34 nothingmuch mj41: ping
15:35 nothingmuch i won't leave you alone till you tell me what that example does
15:37 ninereasons sorry stevan; in conference
15:37 ninereasons doom as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma
15:39 mj41 I can probably replace open $*OUT,">", \$out; open $*OUT,">", \$err; my $status = eval $new_pl;  
15:39 mj41 with system('pugs > out.tmp');
15:39 autrijus mj41: src/Types/Handle.hs is the class api
15:39 autrijus but I had not implemented them fully in AST.hs
15:39 autrijus mj41: you fancy learning some haskell? :)
15:39 autrijus if not, just wait until this weekend and I'll pick up
15:40 mj41 ok, thanks, system is good enought for now
15:40 nothingmuch mj41: you are cruel
15:41 mj41 why? I think my English is cruel, not me.
15:41 nothingmuch i just want to know what that example from yesterday was
15:42 nothingmuch please please tell me
15:42 mj41 which example?
15:42 nothingmuch where you iterate $i and $i+1 at the same time
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15:48 gaal_ zip. by2
15:49 gaal_ (nm that was for you)
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15:49 ninereasons stevan, did you want me to use that success case to edit hangman?
15:50 gaal_ actually, no
15:50 gaal_ just take two every time
15:50 ninereasons stevan, or leave the assignment to $current_committer outside of the sub, as you have it now?
15:50 stevan ninereasons: sure
15:51 gaal_ nm did you have the boustrophedon example  in mind?
15:51 osfameron has joined #perl6
15:52 wolverian mj41: open returns the filehandle in p6
15:52 pasteling "mj" at 147.229.221.107 pasted "interate $i ?" (11 lines, 389B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9296
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15:55 jez 'Beginning Perl' suggests that it'd be more secure to set certain environment variables before calling DBI->connect() so that the pieces of connection information don't have to be specified directly in the connect() call.  My question is simple - how is that more secure?
15:56 wolverian are you sure this is the right channel to ask that?
15:56 Corion [jez]: You don't store the connection data in the script itself, or in the command line (which shows up via top)
15:56 Corion ... but #perl6 is not the place to ask Perl5 usage questions, especially for (well documented) modules
15:56 jez perl6's default mode is perl5 compatibility ;-P
15:57 Corion jez: But there is no DBI.pm for Perl6 yet.
15:57 stevan jez: actually it isnt :)
15:57 Corion jez: But if you plan on porting it, I suggest you wait until we get objects
15:58 jez i wanted to make a suggestion for perl 6.
15:58 autrijus so, objects.
15:58 jez if you're going to verhaul the language, how about changing 'last' to 'break'?
15:58 autrijus what should I work on first when I get next batch of tuits? :)
15:58 jez i don't like the keyword last :-)
15:58 jez or, how about aliasing 'break' to 'last'
15:58 stevan jez: suggestions go to perl6-language
15:58 autrijus &last ::= &break;
15:59 jez yes, do that implicitly
15:59 jez :-)
15:59 autrijus macro last is parsed rx// { return 'break' };
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15:59 wolverian hmm. isn't the [] around the <a b c> in mj41's paste unnecessary?
15:59 autrijus err, the other way around.
15:59 wolverian that is, is <a b c> a ref in scalar context?
15:59 autrijus jez: see, one good thing of perl6 is you get to define your dialects without imposing it on me :)
16:00 jez bleh, i can do that in C, but it annoyingly means i have to put that code in all of my programs
16:00 * autrijus wants to call it "esc"
16:00 jez why not make it a default perl keyword, break isnt currently used is it?
16:00 jez whats wrong with aliasing it/
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16:00 autrijus jez: I imagine some people name their subroutines break().
16:00 autrijus and aliasing it will cause them to break().
16:00 jez their problem, that'll be perl 5 code anyway
16:00 autrijus pun intended. ;)
16:00 jez perl 6 code would prohibit that
16:01 autrijus jez: cool. put macros and tests to t/Dialects/
16:01 autrijus suggestions to p6l.
16:01 jez are you saying perl 6 adds no new keywords?
16:01 autrijus <- not language designer
16:01 wolverian jez: suggest this on perl6-language.
16:01 jez where is that
16:01 wolverian jez: we're not the people to make language decisions.
16:01 autrijus jez: I'm saying I'm this implementatino monkey :)
16:01 wolverian jez: perl6-language@perl.org
16:02 wolverian (add -subscribe to, uh, subscribe. :)
16:02 ninereasons <autrijus> what should I work on first when I get next batch of tuits? :)
16:02 wolverian also http://dev.perl.org/perl6/lists/
16:02 stevan autrijus: I think that making multi-subs dispatch on type would be a good thing
16:02 stevan autrijus: see t/subroutines/multi_sub.t
16:02 ninereasons how about negative indexes, autrijus?
16:02 jez *searches email archive*.  ah yes, seems i already suggested it.
16:02 jez though, i suggested it in comp.lang.perl.misc,comp.lang.perl
16:03 jez is that sort of equivalent to the mailing list?
16:03 wolverian no.
16:03 wolverian (at all.)
16:04 _metaperl has joined #perl6
16:04 jez hmm
16:04 jez can i see archives of the list?
16:04 jez wanna see if someone else mentioned it
16:04 wolverian groups.google.com archives it
16:05 wolverian although it has interface issues. let me get the real link.
16:05 ihb has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
16:05 jez it's a usenet group?
16:05 wolverian http://groups-beta.google.co​m/group/perl.perl6.language/
16:05 jez it looked like a mailing lisat
16:05 wolverian no, it's just kind of mirrored. :)
16:05 wolverian (on google.)
16:05 jez hte group or the list?>
16:05 wolverian I mean, it is a mailing lists.
16:05 jez o
16:05 wolverian s,lists,list,
16:08 wolverian hmm. is it ok that pugs installs libs to /usr/lib/perl6/5.8/*
16:08 wolverian that seems.. odd.
16:08 autrijus mm, negative index
16:08 autrijus which test tests that?
16:09 ninereasons there must be something in arrays.
16:09 ninereasons checking
16:09 wolverian (I mean the 5.8 part.)
16:09 autrijus wolverian: I agree.
16:09 autrijus however I don't see that :)
16:09 * autrijus thinks
16:09 wolverian well, it happened here. :)
16:10 justatheory has joined #perl6
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16:10 autrijus wolverian: well, /util/PugsConfig.pm line 138 is all yours
16:11 wolverian agh! it's haskell!
16:11 ninereasons howaboutthat, not a single negative index test in array.t, autrijus
16:13 stevan oooo then do mine :)
16:13 stevan I have tests :)
16:13 ninereasons t/subroutines/multi_sub.t wins the horserace
16:13 jez see i never saw the problem with goto. :-)
16:13 jez has that been removed from perl6?
16:14 jez as long as you only ever use it in place of something like last MYLOOP
16:14 stevan jez; no
16:14 jez i don't like the semantics of 'last'
16:14 jez my mind thinks 'make this the last iteration of this loop'
16:14 jez which would be the logical equivalent to next
16:14 ninereasons logical corrolary
16:15 jez yes
16:15 ninereasons corollary ;)
16:15 wolverian I never liked 'last' either. it reads to me like 'go to the last iteration'.
16:15 autrijus ninereasons: not a good excuse. write tests! trade tests for feature!
16:15 ninereasons autrijus, sir, yes sir!
16:15 stevan autrijus++ # implementing the barter system
16:16 autrijus ninereasons++
16:16 jez um, could anyone point me to thread(s) on the perl6-language list that discuss the changing in perl 6 of variable type symbol usage? ($,@,%)
16:16 wolverian <a b c>.kv fails.
16:17 wolverian jez: I'd just read the apocalypse.
16:17 stevan jez: not sure that was ever up for discussion
16:18 wolverian also, qw() shouldn't really work, since it's a sub call. mm. I should just see if there are tests for these. :/ I'm not used to this test driven development thing!
16:18 Corion I think the more consistent use of sigils was one of the first things decided
16:18 Corion (as it is the most confusing thing for new beginners)
16:19 wolverian I seem to remember so as well.
16:19 metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:19 _metaperl is now known as metaperl
16:21 ninereasons did we learn what should happen when we say, '@a = 1..Inf; say @a[-1]' ?  
16:22 autrijus yes; it makes you wait a long while.
16:22 wolverian wait for the universe to end? :)
16:22 cwest has joined #perl6
16:22 autrijus at least, I don't see a better implementation.
16:22 Corion_ has joined #perl6
16:22 ninereasons shouldn't it automatically "shorten()" or curry (if that's the right terminology)
16:22 ninereasons ?
16:23 ninereasons or die horribly?
16:23 autrijus we may implement die horribly later.
16:23 autrijus anything else is probably the bad idea.
16:23 Corion has quit IRC (Nick collision from services.)
16:23 Corion_ is now known as Corion
16:23 wolverian the .kv tests don't test <a b c>.kv. I could add that, I suppose!
16:27 wolverian added a test.
16:28 gaal_ beh, what is that even supposed to mean?
16:28 wolverian my $array = <a b c>; $array.kv
16:28 gaal_ and what is it supposed to mean if there's an even amount of elements?
16:28 gaal_ oh wait kv doesn't return pairs; pairs does.
16:29 wolverian yes!
16:30 Khisanth what is .kv for arrays?
16:30 Khisanth index and values?
16:30 wolverian Khisanth: yes.
16:30 wolverian autrijus: I guess I could ask for commit access now that I have this test added.
16:30 autrijus wolverian: what, you're not a committer?
16:30 wolverian no, I'm not.
16:30 autrijus that's a crime. :) your email?
16:31 wolverian [email@hidden.address]
16:31 autrijus very nice domain.
16:31 wolverian thankyou. :)
16:31 autrijus invitation sent; welcome aboard.
16:32 wolverian I want to go on the balcony and yell incoherently a bit. I think I'm taking this a bit too seriously, maybe.
16:32 autrijus that's fine. we will wait :)
16:32 autrijus (yell incoherently)++
16:32 mj41 say( ('-' x 60) ~ "\n" ~ $out ~ "\n" ~ ('-' x 60) );
16:32 mj41 say ('-' x 60) ~ "\n" ~ $out ~ "\n" ~ ('-' x 60);          # ee
16:33 autrijus mj41: what's wrong with that?
16:33 Corion mj41: Well, under Perl5 you would have got a warning about that
16:33 Corion autrijus: I guess it prints "1" ~ "\n" ~ $out
16:33 Corion (and so on)
16:34 wolverian I'll go buy some cat food and commit once I'm back. bye.
16:34 Corion because the parentheses bind directly onto the say() call
16:34 wolverian I thought perl6 has a whitespace rule that makes those lines equivalent.
16:34 wolverian okay, gone. ->
16:37 saorge has joined #perl6
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16:40 mj41 so say ~('-' x 60) ~ "\n" ~ $out ~ "\n" ~ ('-' x 60); # DWIM
16:40 tomyan has left "Kopete 0.9.2 : http://kopete.kde.org"
16:43 chady has quit IRC ("leaving")
16:43 putter what is the syntax for "unusual" sub names?  eg, sub empty? () {...}.  currently this doesnt parse.  the docs give examples of such operators, but no subs/methods/etc.  foo?  <<foo?>>  something else?
16:43 ninereasons then, remove the parens, mj41
16:47 mj41 :-) thanks
16:47 ninereasons :)
16:48 xkb has joined #perl6
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17:07 mj41 pugs template toolkit wanted :-)
17:09 netofsickcoder has joined #perl6
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17:13 autrijus ooh I see array.t
17:13 autrijus ninereasons++
17:14 autrijus "trade tests for feature" mode activated.
17:14 autrijus tests passes; it's implemented now as r1942; enjoy.
17:16 Limbic_Region one minute turnaround from test presence to feature implementation
17:16 * Limbic_Region debates writing several tests while autrijus is in the "trade tests for feature" mode
17:18 cwest has joined #perl6
17:19 autrijus noooo! I'm in this "deadline approaching, must write perl5 code for a living" mode
17:19 Juerd scw: Times are rather pointless without timezone.
17:19 Juerd scw: And really, many geeks don't live in normal time :)
17:23 kungfuftr ullo all
17:23 ninereasons negative indices++ ;
17:24 Odin- Juerd: What is normal, anyway?
17:24 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
17:24 Odin- (UTC, naturally. That's the "standard time". ;)
17:28 kungfuftr UTC/GMT
17:28 kungfuftr seen nothingmuch
17:28 jabbot kungfuftr: nothingmuch was seen on Wed Apr 13 15:42:45 2005 GMT
17:30 kungfuftr bah
17:31 autrijus I want more tests for neg idx on lvalue context
17:31 autrijus and on exists, on delete.
17:31 autrijus any takers? :)
17:31 autrijus (it's actually a quite complicated problem.)
17:31 mauke has joined #perl6
17:32 kungfuftr bah, darc is brokn
17:32 ninereasons I'll add some neg idx tests when i have a minute
17:38 pernod has joined #perl6
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17:41 Corion r1937 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
17:43 autrijus hmm, nm's new code has a final line of summary/subtotals
17:44 metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:44 stevan horay I am finally registered for YAPC::NA
17:44 * stevan has been lazy/pugs-obsessed lately
17:48 kungfuftr when's nothingmuch usually about?
17:48 BigBear has joined #perl6
17:56 stevan kungfuftr: hard to say,.. some days he never sleeps
17:57 kungfuftr heh
17:57 kungfuftr no petal ports... dammit
17:58 pernod has quit IRC ()
17:59 ninereasons isn't that one of Ovid's favored projects, kungfuftr ?
17:59 kungfuftr no idea off hand
18:00 ninereasons I'm actually a little more sure than i let on.  it is one of his favored projects :)
18:01 ninereasons you might pounce him when he's about, and see what how he's progressing
18:01 pernod has joined #perl6
18:01 kungfuftr ah
18:01 kungfuftr =0/
18:01 Corion r1944 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
18:10 tiw has joined #perl6
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18:16 tiw hi all
18:18 Corion changes topic to: pugscode.org <<Overview Journal Logs>> | r1773/winxp: 587/4256 smoke/win2k (occasional): http://xrl.us/fqum (10/4279) | pugs.kwiki.org
18:18 chady has joined #perl6
18:19 jez heh
18:19 jez "It's difficult to deal with any subset of Unicode without naming it. These days, if you see [a-z] in a program, it's probably an outright bug."
18:19 jez what exactly does Larry mean by that?
18:19 tiw how to dereference a array reference in perl6, i try @$ar and @{$ar} but none of them works
18:20 PerlJam jez: using a named character class rather than a-z.  e.g., [:alpha:]  or [:alnum:] etc.
18:20 gcom jez: a-z assumes pretty much english (or romaji ;) ) only
18:21 PerlJam tiw: that action is no longer needed.  $ar[0] is the same as @a[0] if $ar = @a;
18:21 PerlJam jez: sorry I don't happen to know any fancy unicode names to use as examples :)
18:22 tiw PerlJam: but @a = $ar, just copy $ar to the first element of @a
18:22 PerlJam tiw: oh, good point.  Hmm.
18:22 jez gcom: true, but some of us only speak English :-)
18:22 jez and only care about coding for English
18:23 theorbtwo It also doesn't catch the proper spelling of, say, that thing you hand a potential employer that isn't quite a CV.
18:23 PerlJam jez: and that's so last century.  Perl6 is about the 21st century and beyond.
18:24 ninereasons autrijus, did you see my hat trick?
18:24 PerlJam tiw: I think you should ask on p6l.  That may be one of those areas that isn't quite ironed out.
18:24 gcom jez: isn't the point of view that's being suggested as a "bug" (i do [a-z0-9] all the time btw, lazy habit, but i agree in principle with what i think L is saying
18:25 gcom jez: and yeah, usually there are records or inputs that i'm losing by allowing the bug in my code
18:25 tiw PerlJam: i am reading perl6 and parrot, in it @$ra and @{$ra} are used to dereference
18:26 PerlJam tiw: Then, I guess it just hasn't been implemented yet.
18:26 castaway even english has occasional accented chars in it
18:26 PerlJam castaway: and ligatures and whatnot if you're talking about the queen's english.
18:26 castaway liga-whats? ;)
18:27 jez cast: if that's the case then how is :alpha: gonna help?
18:27 castaway it contains accented chars
18:28 jez btw, i think saying that coding with the assumption that Roman characters are going to be used is last century is pretty stupid. :-)
18:28 jez sorry, we're all suddenly using foreign characters now?
18:28 ninereasons we're all the sudden using unicode
18:28 PerlJam jez: no, coding with the assumption that non-latin characters *won't* be used is pretty stupid.
18:28 ninereasons perl6 is a language written in unicode
18:28 castaway not all of a sudden no, have been for years
18:29 jez unicode doesnt have one single standard
18:29 theorbtwo Yes, it does.
18:29 theorbtwo It doesn't have one single /encoding/, but we're talking one level above encoding at present.
18:29 * PerlJam is >this< close to flipping the bozo bit on jez out of shear annoyance :)
18:30 jez is a unicode char always 2 bytes?
18:30 theorbtwo No.
18:30 PerlJam no
18:31 gaal_ has left
18:31 jez but it can be 2 bytes
18:31 PerlJam certainly.
18:31 castaway depends on the encoding
18:31 theorbtwo Well, it can be usually two bytes.
18:31 theorbtwo It'll sometimes be four, even in utf-16.
18:32 * jez is glad he won't be deal with that in C.
18:32 jez *dealing
18:32 theorbtwo (ucs-2 is never four-byte, technically speaking, but it doesn't encode all of unicode, so don't use it.)
18:32 jez the problem i have with Unicode is it's necessarily damn complex, ASCII isnt
18:32 PerlJam the point remains though that you aren't in kansas anymore (unless you specifically want to be ;-)
18:32 jez you can't really overcome that one
18:32 theorbtwo No, you can't.
18:33 * gcom thinks .chars is a pretty clean way to handle the complexity
18:33 PerlJam jez: unicode and ascii intersect nicely.  Choose your level of poison.
18:33 jez actually you could if they'd made every unicode char 4 bytes
18:33 jez :-)
18:33 theorbtwo But ASCII is simple precisely because it throws out the languages spoken by at least 80% of the world.
18:33 theorbtwo ...and throws out 5% of the language spoken by the other 20%.
18:34 jez mmmhmm, but a large part of that 20% of the world also throws out those languages
18:34 jez :-)
18:34 gcom reverse 80/20 rule, hehe
18:34 jez that's the point
18:34 gcom call that 20/80
18:34 PerlJam random fact:  IBM at one time was promoting both EBCDIC and ASCII "standards"
18:34 jez why bother with foreign characters when you're not coding for foreign languages?
18:35 PerlJam jez: right.  If you want to live in that sandbox, you can.
18:35 jez *chuckles*  how is that a sandbox?
18:35 tiw PerlJam: Can not find test about dereference :-(
18:35 elmex has joined #perl6
18:35 castaway because, as mentioned, english has some too.
18:35 theorbtwo Because you still have to think what you're going to do when somebody tries to spell résume correctly.
18:36 jez i'm talking more than a few accents; greek, chinese, japanese, korean, arabic... etc
18:36 castaway because upi'll get a shock should you ever want to locaise something
18:36 theorbtwo If you punt safely, you've already done 90% of the work needed to just support it.
18:36 PerlJam jez: Because the rest of the world is interacting with each other and that means that if you've restricted yourself to ASCII, you've decided you aren't playing with the rest of the world.  You're in your own little sandbox.
18:36 castaway "you'll"
18:36 PerlJam jez: There's nothing wrong with that mind you. I expect that there will be many sandboxes that spring up around the world.
18:36 rindolf has quit IRC ("Yay! I'm a Llama again!")
18:36 jez perl: i'm not interacting with them anyway, i only speak English competently.  few people speak more than 2 or 3 languages well
18:36 theorbtwo jez, supporting é correctly isn't harder then supporting greek, chinese, japanese, korean, arabic, etc, for many applications.
18:37 jez but it's a lot harder than supporting ASCII ;-)
18:37 PerlJam jez: but perl6 supports the global view generally and the local view as a specialization.
18:37 Aankhen`` «jez»: You're restricting every one of your users to English too.
18:37 theorbtwo Not if you're using perl6, it doesn't.
18:37 Aankhen`` And that's not a decision you ought to be taking for them.
18:37 theorbtwo Er, it isn't.
18:37 jez anak: oh i dunno... this world would be better with a single language. :-)
18:38 castaway you're not interacting, your software may be
18:38 jez much less hassle
18:38 Aankhen`` Yeesh.
18:38 PerlJam Aankhen``: let him make that decision.  As soon as he writes some useful software he'll find out that there are people in China or India or Germany or where ever that want to use it.
18:38 jez I'd learn Esperanto if everyone else did. :-)
18:38 Aankhen`` Try this, jez: type in 'Aank' and press Tab.
18:38 gcom or as soon as he wants to check it into cpan
18:38 jez Aank: what's your point
18:39 jez people in China will wanna use my *english interface* software?
18:39 jez why?
18:39 * gcom thinks there's a little trolling going on, but is leaving room for doubt
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18:39 Aankhen`` I find it very irritating when people refuse to use nick completion and end up misspelling my nick.
18:39 Aankhen`` «gcom»: You too? ;-)
18:39 jez Aankhen``: it's a habit i've never gotten into
18:39 Aankhen`` Then learn to spell nicks right.
18:39 theorbtwo Do you mind Aankh?
18:39 PerlJam jez: for instance, I guy I know wrote some wiki software.  He was very american-centered until it became popular.  Now he's got some internationalization because he has users all over the world.
18:40 Aankhen`` «theorbtwo»: Of course not... Aank, Aankh, Aankhen or even Anakin works. :-)
18:40 jez you, OTOH, seem to like specialformatting
18:40 Aankhen`` «jez»: That's right.
18:40 tiw has left "ERC Version 5.0.2 $Revision: 1.726.2.10 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"
18:40 Aankhen`` I just dislike Anakhen or Anaken or... you get the idea.
18:41 * theorbtwo dislikes "theo".
18:41 jez perljam: does he communicate with said users in non-englis?
18:41 PerlJam jez, Aankhen``: both of you know how to use msg
18:41 jez English
18:41 PerlJam jez: occasionally.  But the point is that his *software* has to
18:41 jez PerlJam: how do i use msg?  *ducks*
18:41 Aankhen`` «PerlJam»: Better, I know how to go off and waste time playing games. :-D
18:41 wolverian hm, how do I determine whether a test I'm adding is todo or not?
18:41 Aankhen`` Later.
18:42 PerlJam wolverian: Is it an unimplemented feature?
18:42 wolverian PerlJam: yes.
18:42 castaway does it work?
18:42 wolverian castaway: no.
18:42 jez perl: welllll... wiki software is the kind of thing i might expect that for.  however, what about a different example - database logins.
18:42 castaway then its todo, obviously
18:42 PerlJam it should be a todo then :)
18:42 jez perl: i'm gonna support unicode usernames/passwords?
18:42 wolverian well, I don't know if it's implemented or not.
18:42 castaway I presume you know that todo means "to do" (as in to be done)
18:42 wolverian but it definitely doesn't work.
18:42 wolverian yes, but the first issue is unclear to me.
18:43 castaway if it doesnt work, it needs doing ,)
18:43 wolverian heh.
18:43 castaway (assuming its supposed to)
18:43 jez perl: as this database is for my english website i dont anticipate any non-english needs, and it's not worth my time supporting it
18:43 jez i guess i will when i feel the need
18:43 jez :-)
18:43 PerlJam jez: sure.
18:43 jez but it will have to come up and bite me
18:43 * castaway bites jez.
18:44 castaway (oops)
18:44 PerlJam jez: right.  Like I said before, I expect that there will be many sandboxes springing up around the world until we have full globalization  :-)
18:44 jez you mean a single world language?  heh
18:44 jez i'd like to see 'full globalization' until that mile-high barrier is broken
18:45 jez that or a universal translator device.  i've been wondering why one of those hasn't spprung up.   we have speech recognition, we have translation, we have speech synthesis
18:45 PerlJam jez: English is the "world language"  But I doubt that ethnicities or regions will be giving up their local languages any time soon.
18:45 jez just need more research and a universal translator (rudimentry) could be developed
18:46 PerlJam jez: you've obviously never studied linguistics.
18:46 machack666 you can solve hard ai next, then.  :)
18:46 jez i said it'd be rudimentry.  so initially it wouldnt carry emphasis, there would be mistakes
18:46 PerlJam jez: though you're right. It's just that *only* a rudimentary translator could be developed.  :)
18:46 machack666 and p = np needs some work, too
18:46 jez but it would be ok for clearly expressed sentences
18:46 castaway also hasnt tried to tranlate stuff using babelfish much either
18:47 jez perl: nah, just look at Star Trek
18:47 PerlJam heh
18:47 jez babelfish is poo.  there must be better translations around
18:47 jez promt.ru is ok
18:48 castaway feel free to write one ;)
18:48 mj41 So stupid, so beautiful. Perl6-pugs powered
18:48 mj41 http://wiki.kn.vutbr.cz/mj/attach/pugs/​tut-pugs/tut-output/hello-world.p6.html
18:48 mj41 http://wiki.kn.vutbr.cz/mj​/attach/pugs/tut-pugs/tut/
18:48 mj41 need some food
18:50 ninereasons iblech, maybe "isnt" would be better than "is" to test your bug discovery? may I change it?
18:50 jez http://rafb.net/paste/results/2WfdzS70.html
18:51 jez could someone explain how the above increases security?
18:51 jez or is supposed to?
18:54 Corion jez: Maybe ask that in #perl
18:54 PerlJam jez: It doesn't.  Anyone who can read the source can see those values.
18:55 rgs simon cozens is to be trusted, though
18:55 Corion rgs: Simon Cozens is smoking crack. Good crack some times, but still crack
18:55 rgs right.
18:56 Corion (but yes, he usually knows what he's talking about :) )
18:58 jez Perljam: well that's what i thought.
18:58 jez it's strange to see Simon saying that because it's BS, moving the password to somewhere else in the code increases security?
18:58 machack666 DBIx::NamedDSN stores auth info in a place outside of the webroot</plug>
18:58 jez people shouldnt see the code in the first place
18:58 PerlJam jez: if you get on irc.perl.org, you can query simon himself on #perl
18:58 crysflame cozens is very interesting
18:58 jez perl: oh that's where he hangs out eh
18:58 rgs cozens is lathos on irc
18:58 jez he said EFNET #perl
18:58 crysflame his nickname is lathos there
18:58 jez :-)
18:58 castaway You can set those vars in the scripts environment some other way.. readonly login files or something
18:58 crysflame EFNET #perl, Rhizo #perl, whatever
18:58 PerlJam jez: oh, he's on efnet too I think.
18:59 castaway but if a usder can read the script, he can still find them
18:59 * integral thinks it does increase security
18:59 PerlJam jez: most of the famous (or infamous) perl people hang out on irc.perl.org #perl though
18:59 integral using the user's credentials rather than the same ones for all users (plus you get to use krb5 ;-)
18:59 PerlJam integral: okay, sure it increases security but only marginally.
18:59 castaway slightly
18:59 integral Not really,  different users can use different credentials,  and you get auditing
19:00 Corion Storing login/password in the script is bad, because if you post the script to the internet, you got to remember to clean it before posting.
19:00 Corion (as I've experienced often enough)
19:00 PerlJam Corion: sorry but, heh. :)
19:00 * integral doesn't see the point of using a login/password when it's not provided by a user
19:00 kungfuftr @ARGV?
19:00 castaway plenty of point for that, integral
19:01 integral like?
19:01 integral But it's not buying you anything if it's just there in the script.
19:01 Corion kungfuftr: Visible through ps, or top.
19:01 castaway like when the app only has/needs one login to the DB, and the users just use the app, and arent supposed to know how to get at the db directly
19:01 stevan mj41: very nice!!
19:02 integral but then castaway any method you employ is merely obscurity.   Using strings(1) on your app isn't hard
19:02 castaway it is if my app is on a server they dont have access to ,)
19:03 integral right, then their pc shouldn't be allowed to talk to the DB at all :-)
19:03 jez so like, what is the safe way to store user/pass for db access?
19:03 crysflame i can't think of any
19:05 machack666 encrypt it, and find way to hide the decryption key.  induction strikes again! :D
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19:05 castaway somewhere where it cant be read
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19:07 jez castaway: hurm.  howsabout..... beneath my docs directory?
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19:07 jez then the script could look in ~/passwords.foo
19:07 castaway no idea what type of app you are talking about
19:07 jez CGI
19:08 jez of course your script would have not to be so shit that it would print out passwords.foo
19:08 jez but it's another layer of security
19:09 mj41 stevan: thanks
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19:16 stevan mj41: is that in the pugs source tree yet?
19:16 stevan mj41: you might want to try pointing it at the examples/cookbook stuff too
19:18 perdix has quit IRC ("quitting")
19:18 mj41 not yet in pugs, to utils or examples?
19:19 mj41 are utils are p5
19:19 mj41 s/are/all/
19:23 mj41 or somebody can create Tutorial-Generator ext/module
19:25 rindolf Hi all!
19:37 stevan mj41: put it in examples/tutorial_gen/
19:38 stevan hey rindolf
19:38 rindolf stevan: hi
19:38 rindolf stevan: what's up?
19:38 stevan nothing really,.. 6.2.0 hangover basically :)
19:40 mj41 ok
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19:41 stevan mj41: I would love it if utils/ would get ported to perl6, but realistically Pugs is still to slow in some places
19:42 mj41 yes, I can confirm this
19:42 stevan mj41: :)
19:42 stevan mj41: 'make optimized' makes it a little better
19:43 mj41 puzzle
19:43 mj41 my $a = <a b>; my $b = <a>; my $c = [ <a> ]; my $d = [ <a b> ];
19:43 mj41 say $a.ref ~ $b.ref ~ $c.ref ~ $d.ref;
19:44 stevan that makes sense
19:44 stevan <> is general quoting IIRC
19:44 stevan so it is just quoting that string
19:45 stevan or rather <> is sorta-polymorphic quoting weird thing
19:45 wolverian the second case is a bit weird, but it's the same in perl5.
19:46 gaal i don't understand why $a isa List and not Array though.
19:46 * stevan has not quite grasped the distinction between array and list in perl6
19:46 gaal are lists var types at all?
19:47 PerlJam stevan: the distinction is very very small in perl6
19:47 * gaal killed a few trees today and will have plenty of time to read the apocalypses soon :/
19:47 wolverian is there a does or isa relationship between List and Array?
19:48 stevan wolverian: check,.. we have .isa now
19:48 wolverian right. thanks. :)
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19:49 wolverian okay, there is no isa relationship.
19:49 wolverian just wondering if I have to type things as 'List|Array $foo' in my signatures.
19:50 * castaway doubts it
19:50 wolverian then both should do the same role
19:50 wolverian (such as Enumerable in Ruby)
19:50 lennarth has joined #perl6
19:51 gaal what's p6 for print for @Foo::INC ?
19:51 elmex has joined #perl6
19:51 wolverian or maybe pugs is wrong here.
19:52 stevan gaal: not sure
19:52 ninereasons kungfufter for some reason it just hit me:  when you said 'petal ports' you meant 'as in freebsd' not 'as in 'perl5 => perl6'
19:52 Aankhen`` G'night.
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19:52 wolverian $obj.meta.isa
19:52 stevan wolverian: I think we do actually (have List|Array)
19:52 ninereasons kungfuftr, i hate leaving loose ends :)
19:53 wolverian stevan: I wasn't asking if we have it, but if I need to do that every time I want an enumerable type
19:53 stevan wolverian: see S29 I think I saw an example of that usage in there
19:53 kungfuftr moo?
19:53 rob_ Unpacking ghc-6.2-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2
19:53 stevan wolverian: :) I am a little slow today
19:53 rob_ ups, sorry
19:53 castaway oops, crashed SEE..
19:53 gaal thanks, wolverian
19:54 wolverian the obvious solution here is to add a role such as Enumerable. I don't know if this has been discussed.
19:54 wolverian gaal: you're welcome.
19:54 * castaway looks for nothingmuch
19:56 kungfuftr ninereasons: yar... no bsd ports
19:56 wolverian (the name is bad with the 'does' verb, so it should probably be Index (class List does Index { ... }) or some such.
19:56 wolverian s/$/)/
20:06 mj41 uploaded
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20:29 mj41 g'night
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20:29 mj41 from Czech republic
20:30 rindolf mj41: night
20:30 rindolf gaal: hi.
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21:16 theorb Allo, all.
21:19 ingy hi theorb
21:20 ingy y "hola" en generales
21:20 ingy <-- makes stuff up
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21:33 stevan ingy-speak
21:33 metaperl_ stevan, I broke up fp.p6 in examples
21:33 metaperl_ I needed to do so for my slides for my talk tonight: http://www.metaperl.com/tal​ks/p6-fp-slurpy/index.html
21:34 stevan metaperl_: ok by me
21:34 metaperl_ ok
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21:34 * stevan silently curses metaperl
21:35 stevan metaperl_: did you commit it yet?
21:35 metaperl_ I think the original is still there
21:35 metaperl_ there is a directory...
21:35 metaperl_ fp.p6 is still there
21:35 metaperl_ I added fp.p6
21:36 metaperl_ and an fp directory which has fp.p6 broken up
21:36 metaperl_ all under examples
21:36 stevan metaperl_: I am not seeing it
21:36 stevan I just grabbed r1953
21:36 metaperl_ oh maybe I didn't commit it
21:36 metaperl_ hold
21:36 stevan metaperl_: I would prefer you remove fp.p6
21:37 stevan or at least move it in the directory
21:37 stevan no sense in having 2 copies of it actually
21:39 metaperl_ ok 1954 is committed but I did not remove your fp.p6
21:40 stevan metaperl_: re: your fp.p5... most of fp.p6 was actually derived from this module http://search.cpan.org/~stevan/fp-0.02/lib/fp.pm
21:40 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
21:40 metaperl_ yes, many ways to do it - Language::Functional is another
21:41 metaperl_ stevan have you filtered out the sw-design moderator notices? I am about to... there doesn't seem to be a way to handle it via the UI
21:42 stevan metaperl_: they have been going to my junk folder for a while now
21:42 metaperl_ ok, I'm going to do that as well
21:43 stevan metaperl_: I am moving fp.p6 into examples, and removing examples/fp.p5  since it is in examples/fp/ now
21:43 stevan ok?
21:44 Maddingue__ has joined #perl6
21:44 metaperl_ ok
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21:53 theorb Is the polite thing to do to commit tests as todo if they fail, or only if they represent a feature that shouldn't be done by now?
21:54 * kungfuftr has a new really nice way of doing testgraph
21:55 kungfuftr but lest i know not petal
21:55 * theorb shrugs -- I thought the old way was just fine myself.
21:57 kungfuftr =0)
21:58 theorb Hair standing on end and a pig-nose?
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22:01 stevan theorb: todo if its not done yet, not-todo if it should be done (or is a bug)
22:01 stevan thats my general approach
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22:04 stevan metaperl_: I just added another example which you might find ammusing
22:08 stevan off to eat dinner,... bye all
22:08 theorb Later, stevan!
22:08 stevan oh hey,.. theorb did you confirm all your reservations for YAPC::NA?
22:09 stevan I talked to John about the hackathon, it is going to start on Wed now (1 day earlier)
22:09 theorb Well, I've RSVP'd for the hackathon... and Jess booked the time off.
22:09 putter has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:09 theorb But we've not done the rest of the arragnements yet.
22:10 stevan ok, well just so you know if you can get their earlier then cool :)
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