Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-04-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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02:17 kungfuftr yay!
02:47 kungfuftr bah, where's nothingmuch when ye want him
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04:21 crysflame 21:22 now
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05:24 autrijus hi.
05:24 autrijus wolverian: Array.isa("List").
05:25 autrijus $a = <x y>; $a.ref; # this should be "Array".
05:25 autrijus so that's a bug.
05:25 autrijus Array is a mutable IType; List is an immutable IType, that's all
05:25 autrijus Hash is also mutable; Array and Hash represents different mutable views on List.
05:25 autrijus so they both .isa lis
05:25 autrijus list
05:26 wolverian right. thanks.
05:26 autrijus since that's a bug... please add a test :D
05:26 wolverian sure. by the way, is <a b c>.kv failing a todo or not?
05:26 wolverian I'm unclear on the todoity of things.
05:27 autrijus wolverian: <a b c> is a List not an Array
05:27 autrijus so according to Rod's draft of s29 it shall fail.
05:27 wolverian lists don't have .kv? hm.
05:27 autrijus # http://www.rodadams.net/Perl/S29.html#perl6::lists
05:27 wolverian right. that makes sense, if Hash.isa(List)
05:27 autrijus I see no .kv there.
05:28 autrijus if you'd like to have it... tell Rod
05:28 wolverian it'd be logical, since a list can be indexed similarly like an array
05:29 autrijus maybe. in my mind though, list isn't keyed
05:29 autrijus although you can certainly write <a b c>[0]
05:29 wolverian that's what I'm basing my feeling on.
05:29 autrijus you can also write
05:29 autrijus <a b c d>{'a'}
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05:30 wolverian hmm.
05:30 autrijus and neither is really keyed to the list
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05:30 autrijus it's just dynamic polymorphic interface
05:30 wolverian in that case, .kv makes no sense.
05:30 wolverian I'll remove the todo. :)
05:30 wolverian I mean, the test.
05:30 autrijus =)
05:30 wolverian where should the .isa tests go?
05:32 autrijus I have no idea. improvise :)
05:32 autrijus I need to run now to $wr0k
05:32 wolverian will do!
05:32 autrijus see you in a bit
05:32 wolverian have fun.
05:33 wolverian t/builtins/list/* look like array tests :)
05:33 autrijus refactor mercilessly then. :)
05:33 * autrijus waves &
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05:47 mj $a = <x y>; $a.ref; # this should be "Array".
05:47 mj but <a b c> is a List not an Array, right?
05:48 wolverian I don't know. autrijus, help? :)
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05:50 mj autrijus said that, IMO, I have to study :-) before push @larry, $mj.
05:52 wolverian svn is giving me hard time. oh well, have to learn this sometime.
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06:25 gaal wolverian, still there?
06:25 wolverian yes.
06:25 gaal there's an accidental test for the List tihng in undef.t already
06:26 gaal (if's failing, of course)
06:26 wolverian argh.
06:26 gaal no no, it's okay
06:26 gaal it's all right if we happen to have duplicate tests
06:26 wolverian right. didn't think to look there :)
06:26 gaal in undef.t it's just a sanity check of some scaffolding before the "real" test
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06:28 gaal my gut feeling is that <a b>.ref should be List, but i mat be wrong!
06:28 gaal hey nm
06:28 gaal brb, need coffee
06:28 wolverian yes, it should be. :)
06:28 nothingmuch beh
06:28 nothingmuch these antihistamines are really fucking me up
06:28 wolverian my computer has suddenly decided to get cranky. X doesn't want to use DRI and my sound doesn't work :()
06:29 wolverian s,),, # argh.
06:29 nothingmuch ugg
06:29 nothingmuch not good news
06:29 nothingmuch i hate fixing DRI
06:29 wolverian it worked on the last reboot..
06:29 nothingmuch in fact, i hate fixing it so much that i only ever finished doing it once
06:29 nothingmuch cvs-dri on mach-64 ati card
06:29 wolverian and this is ubuntu, I haven't had to touch any X related configuration file at all
06:29 nothingmuch 3 years ago
06:29 wolverian and it just worked! but now it suddenly stopped working. bleh.
06:30 nothingmuch ubuntu sounds funky
06:30 wolverian it is nice.
06:30 * nothingmuch thinks it might be good for workplace
06:30 nothingmuch people will need a few linux workstations
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06:35 wolverian hmm. so. sub foo (Array $foo) { ... } foo <a b c>; # works?
06:35 wolverian I could try.
06:36 wolverian doesn't.
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06:40 castaway mornin
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06:42 nothingmuch morning castaway
06:42 castaway hey..
06:42 castaway did I kill SEE? :)
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06:43 wolverian relogging to x fixed DRI and sound. hmph.
06:48 nothingmuch castaway:  maybe, i dunno
06:49 castaway It's not there anymore, anyhoo
06:49 nothingmuch i'll try to open it
06:49 nothingmuch beh
06:49 nothingmuch someone rebooted
06:49 nothingmuch no windowserver session
06:50 nothingmuch sowwy
06:50 castaway O
06:50 castaway Ok
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07:01 hoowa why pugs doesn't support .last method?
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07:23 rindolf nothingmuch: ahoy there, matey!
07:24 nothingmuch ahoy
07:24 nothingmuch how may i be of assistance dear sire?
07:39 wolverian hrm. does perl6 have instance method references?
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07:49 theorbtwo wolverian: Doesn't need something specific for them.
07:49 theorbtwo They're just a specific case of .assuming.
07:51 wolverian hmm, good point. that's a tad longer to type, though. :)
07:51 masak what's the syntax for changing an array in pugs?
07:51 masak i'm trying to do this (perl 5 code):
07:51 masak $a = [(1,2,3),(4,5,0)];
07:51 masak $a->[1][-1] = 6;
07:51 masak but it doesn't work
07:52 nothingmuch that's not p5, methinks
07:52 masak hm
07:52 masak maybe i should try it in p5 first
07:52 wolverian my pugs still doesn't like nested structures.
07:52 masak it doesn't?
07:52 nothingmuch it will make @$a = (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 0);
07:53 nothingmuch which is not what you meant, i think
07:53 masak not what i meant
07:53 masak i want to use nesting
07:53 nothingmuch try using a greater list comma:
07:53 nothingmuch $a = [ 1, 2, 3 ; 4, 5, 0 ];
07:53 masak ah, of coruse
07:53 masak thx
07:54 nothingmuch i don't know if it will work
07:54 wolverian it doesn't here.
07:54 masak not here either
07:55 nothingmuch ok
07:55 masak i'm trying to write tic-tac-toe
07:55 masak i could do it without nesting
07:55 nothingmuch so try $a [ [ 1 .. 3 ], [ 1, 2, 0 ] ]
07:55 masak ok
07:55 nothingmuch tic tac toe would be wonderful bound
07:56 nothingmuch $diag[0] := $matrix[0][0]
07:56 nothingmuch $diag[1] := $matrix[1][1]
07:56 nothingmuch $diag[2] := $matrix[2][2];
07:56 nothingmuch then you just iterate @diags, @rows, @columns
07:56 nothingmuch and then see if they are all the same
07:56 wolverian iterate $diag, you mean :)
07:56 nothingmuch no,@diags is ($diag1, $diag2)
07:57 wolverian sure!
07:57 nothingmuch if @diag[0] >>eq<< 'x'
07:57 wolverian been up all night, so I think it's time to sleep. it's only 11am.
07:57 masak i'm trying to modify the matrix by
07:57 masak $matrix[1][1] = 3
07:57 masak but it says
07:57 masak "Can't modify constant item"
07:58 nothingmuch that's odd
07:58 nothingmuch we ought to tell autrijus
07:58 nothingmuch it sounds more like binding complexity and context issues than subscripting or multidim
07:58 masak always when i test things i turn up oddness :)
07:59 nothingmuch that means you're a good tester, masak
07:59 masak you'd better keep me away from testing the vital parts of the code :)
07:59 nothingmuch btw, can you commit a test for that case?
07:59 masak ok
07:59 nothingmuch why?
07:59 nothingmuch we want the bugs to shine =)
07:59 masak it's more like i cause bugs by finding them. quantum physics :)
08:00 nothingmuch heh
08:00 masak i would be a good tester if i were actively looking for bugs
08:00 masak right now i'm only trying to write a game
08:01 ingy hola
08:01 masak hi ingy
08:01 nothingmuch hola ingy
08:01 nothingmuch i need releng advice
08:01 nothingmuch testgraph.css, template.html
08:01 nothingmuch where should they go?
08:01 ingy I am reading about doxygen and getting good ideas for Perldoc
08:01 nothingmuch doxygen is rather nice
08:02 ingy CRAZY IDEAS!!
08:02 nothingmuch but smart comments are not %POD savvy
08:02 ingy sorry
08:02 ingy nothingmuch: they could be
08:02 nothingmuch then they should be =pod foo
08:02 nothingmuch not comments
08:02 ingy that's why I'm meeting  with Larry in  Toronto :)
08:03 nothingmuch which raises the issue for doc on the tail of a line again
08:03 masak this should work, right?
08:03 masak -bash-3.00$ pugs -e 'my $a = [[2]]; $a[0][0] = 6; say $a'
08:03 masak Can't modify constant item
08:03 masak Val VUndef
08:07 ingy damn i think today was one of the best days of my life
08:07 masak why?
08:07 ingy it was just a good one
08:07 masak :)
08:08 nothingmuch details!
08:08 ingy a lot of cool things happened
08:08 nothingmuch masak: in theory
08:08 nothingmuch masak: commit a test =)
08:08 masak ingy: you should have best days of your life more often, i recommend it
08:08 masak nothingmuch: ok
08:08 ingy masak: I recommend it too
08:09 nothingmuch i think it's not copying 2, since it's not directly assigned
08:10 rindolf nothingmuch: what do you think of http://better-scm.berlios.de/ ?
08:10 ingy nothingmuch: what do you think about comments that get preprocessed into regular pod (but with smarts based on position etc) just be before compilation?
08:10 nothingmuch where's darcs?
08:10 rindolf ingy: hi there.
08:10 ingy hi schlomi
08:10 nothingmuch ingy: i think comments should be accessible either way
08:10 rindolf ingy: it's "Shlomi" (without a C)
08:11 nothingmuch you don't want to know what Devel::FIXME does
08:11 ingy ah
08:11 nothingmuch but i'll tell you anyway
08:11 ingy ha
08:11 nothingmuch it puts a subref in @INC
08:11 nothingmuch sets a local lock
08:11 nothingmuch calls require again
08:11 ingy cool
08:11 nothingmuch this time the hook fails since the lock is in effect
08:11 ingy yep
08:11 nothingmuch the "normal" @INC finds the module
08:11 nothingmuch and then you go back to the callback
08:12 nothingmuch where you can find it's file in %INC
08:12 nothingmuch so it opens that, and looks for comments with a regex
08:12 nothingmuch which is really silly, since it could all just be done with a well defined hook for "new module was required"
08:12 nothingmuch and the comment data tree exposed
08:12 nothingmuch parsing perl with a regex is stupid
08:13 nothingmuch i could have done it with source filters, or at least Filter::Simple's regex
08:13 nothingmuch but it just seemed like too much work, and getting a fake FIXME from a string that contains "# FIXME foo" is not that bAD
08:13 ingy :)
08:14 masak i have a problem with my test, it aborts on the nested change attempt $a[0][0] = 6;
08:14 nothingmuch rindolf: why isn't darcs listed?
08:14 nothingmuch because arch is typically tla
08:14 masak and i even put it in an eval {}
08:14 nothingmuch or bazaar/arx? or maybe they're under arch?
08:14 nothingmuch masak: not eval {}
08:14 masak ok
08:14 rindolf nothingmuch: because it wasn't added yet. I have to add it.
08:14 rindolf nothingmuch: bazaar/bazaar-ng and arx fall under the Arch category.
08:14 nothingmuch my $a = [[2]]; eval_is('$a[0][0] = 6; $a[0][0]', 6);
08:15 ingy I lost 15 lbs in 8 days
08:15 nothingmuch i don'y see tla under there
08:15 nothingmuch oh my
08:15 nothingmuch do you have cancer or something?
08:15 ingy I just need to lose 15 more
08:15 masak nothingmuch: thx
08:15 nothingmuch where would you put svk?
08:15 ingy only 8 more days!
08:15 rindolf Why does everyone and his mother start their own VCS project?
08:15 nothingmuch why are you trying to lose 30 pounds in 16 days?
08:15 rindolf nothingmuch: it's in the comparison for time being.
08:16 nothingmuch rindolf: darwinism is one of the side effects of opensourcce
08:16 castaway has quit IRC ("Lost terminal")
08:16 ingy because I want to to weigh under 190
08:16 nothingmuch how much is 190?
08:16 ingy 94 or so?
08:16 rindolf perlbot: 190 lbs = kg?
08:16 rindolf perlbot: 190 lbs
08:16 nothingmuch hah
08:17 nothingmuch perlbot know too much
08:17 ingy perlbot: change 190 lbs to kg
08:17 rindolf Barbaric Americans. Pounds...
08:17 rindolf perlbot: convert 190 lbs to kg
08:17 nothingmuch rindolf: i also think that the front page should have:
08:17 * ingy pounds rindolf into submission
08:17 nothingmuch FREE (speech|beer|NA)
08:18 nothingmuch distributed/centralized
08:18 nothingmuch those are the top level distinctions i make
08:18 rindolf nothingmuch: where should it have it?
08:18 castaway has joined #perl6
08:18 ingy 2.2 lbs = 1 kg I think
08:18 nothingmuch right under the name, maybe
08:18 ingy perlbot: 190 / 2.2
08:18 rindolf 1lb = 0.46 kg or so.
08:18 rindolf perlbot: math 190 / 2.2
08:18 perlbot 86.3636363636364
08:19 pjcj nothingmuch: did you try using CORE::GLOBAL::require ?
08:19 masak perlbot++
08:19 nothingmuch btw, if you're listing bitkeeper, why not p4 and vss? p4 is free (Beer) for a two user, two machine license for opensource devel, i think
08:19 nothingmuch pjcj: yes, it looked easier to implement a hook in @INC than to reimplement require
08:19 nothingmuch because it is sort of weird
08:19 nothingmuch accepting barewords and such
08:19 rindolf nothingmuch: I'm not listing VSS because it's even lamer than CVS.
08:19 nothingmuch rindolf: so? people should know to be weary of it
08:19 rindolf nothingmuch: As for perforce, maybe I should add it.
08:19 ingy I should patent my new diet
08:20 rindolf nothingmuch: I'm not listing CVS either.
08:20 nothingmuch ingy: what's your new diet?
08:20 nothingmuch rindolf: but the page says "cvs is bad use this:"
08:20 wolverian svk! darcs! bazaar! bazaar-ng!
08:20 ingy nothingmuch takes the bait
08:20 ingy well...
08:20 ingy you go to Taiwan
08:20 ingy come home
08:20 nothingmuch i'm just suggesting "cvs is bad, use this, but don't use this, it's as bad as cvs"
08:20 ingy $gf dumps you
08:20 nothingmuch do you get really fat in Taiwan?
08:20 nothingmuch from all that beer?
08:21 nothingmuch ah, the last step is taken care of
08:21 ingy no I lost a pound maybe in Taiwan
08:21 nothingmuch quite some time ago
08:21 ingy then you sleep a lot and don't eat
08:21 * nothingmuch can't sleep too much
08:21 ingy and then you start losing weight
08:21 ingy and you say cool!
08:21 masak ingy: $gf dump you because you lost a pound in taiwan?
08:21 nothingmuch makes me depressed, but furthermore, it makes me feel really bad
08:22 ingy and then you eat like a bowl of rice a day
08:22 nothingmuch rindolf: also, most VCSs should, IMHO have their major strong points and bad points listed
08:22 ingy masak: no $gf dumped me because she's an idiot
08:22 ingy (of course)
08:22 rindolf nothingmuch: possibly. Have you looked at the comparison yet?
08:22 nothingmuch arch: capable, complete, GPLed, tla is complicated, arx, bazaar are new
08:22 nothingmuch i have
08:23 masak ingy: of course
08:23 nothingmuch monotone: capable, new, crypgraphic, doesn't use gpg for crypto, slow
08:23 rindolf A page with a VCS systems to avoid would actually be a good idea.
08:23 ingy but after a couple days I just want to go up to $gf and get down on my knees and...
08:23 rindolf nothingmuch: and weird hash values as versions.
08:24 ingy thank her passionately for leaving!
08:24 nothingmuch well, i don't really know monotone, so i can't say more
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08:24 rindolf ingy: :-)
08:24 nothingmuch ingy: so why are you sleeping a lot?
08:24 ingy life is like 100 times better
08:24 ingy nothingmuch: because when you barely eat you need more sleep
08:25 nothingmuch ah, i thought it was the other way around
08:25 masak ingy++
08:25 nothingmuch when you sleep too much, you barely eat
08:25 masak i fasted for nine days a couple of months ago
08:25 ingy yeah that too
08:25 masak it was nice
08:25 ingy masak++
08:25 nothingmuch the antihistamines are having that effect on me, now
08:25 ingy yeah, it's totally doable
08:25 nothingmuch sleep too much
08:25 nothingmuch so i eat about 40%
08:25 nothingmuch less
08:26 nothingmuch but then again, i don't burn all that food either
08:26 ingy also mugwump told me i was fat in Taiwan
08:26 ingy which is about the only hing he said to me  that really made sense
08:26 nothingmuch heh
08:26 mj 21/4310 subtests failed, 99.51% okay.
08:27 masak i've committed a test, how long before the perlbot thingy announces it?
08:27 ingy tommorrow I have a bike race though
08:27 ingy I will likely need to eat a little more
08:27 rindolf ingy: motorbike, or bicycle?
08:27 masak ingy: sounds like a good idea
08:27 ingy bicycle
08:27 mj r1953 -  973/4310 subtests failed, 77.42% okay.
08:27 rindolf ingy: ah good. /me likes biking.
08:28 ingy I'm the fattest guy in the peleton
08:28 ingy once i get below 190 I'll be flying though
08:28 mj i hate new miranda irc :-(
08:28 ingy 190 is about my optimal race weight
08:29 rindolf ingy: I never pictured you as a fat guy.
08:29 masak ingy: i think i'll try your rice/no $gf diet
08:29 nothingmuch aren't you losing a crapload of muscle tissue with this amazing new diet?
08:29 mj s/todo_//   ... r1953 -  973/4310 subtests failed, 77.42% okay.
08:29 ingy masak: the secret is to pretend you are depressed
08:29 masak ingy: how?
08:29 ingy after you start losing weight
08:29 ingy you'll feel good
08:29 masak i'm so happy
08:29 ingy about yourself
08:30 ingy so then you have to fake it
08:30 nothingmuch mj: todo_ how much is t/oo?
08:30 ingy that it really sucks that you got dumped
08:30 masak ingy: hm. sounds dangerous
08:30 masak what if you start to believe it?
08:31 ingy I get on the scale about 25 times a day
08:31 ingy masak: well I have a goal weight
08:31 ingy Going for 160 would be dangerous
08:31 nothingmuch ingy++; # amusing
08:32 masak ingy: so after you reach your goal weight you'll stop simulating depression?
08:32 * castaway doesnt think pretending that is such a useful idea
08:32 ingy anyway I'm hungry, better catch some zzzzzzzzz
08:32 nothingmuch hah
08:32 rindolf castaway++
08:32 rindolf perlbot: karma castaway
08:32 perlbot Karma for castaway: 5
08:32 jabbot rindolf: castaway  has neutral karma
08:32 masak ingy: i want to eat rice but i don't want to sacrifice happiness
08:32 rindolf jabbot: I didn't ask you.
08:32 jabbot rindolf: Oh, I?
08:33 castaway Just eat what you want to eat, and be who you are :)
08:33 ingy but masak I just had the best day of my life
08:33 ingy it's not all that bad ;)
08:33 nothingmuch ... fat, and ugly, and unattractive! yah! /me can vouch for that
08:33 rindolf ingy: eat according to the stomach and not according to the eyes.
08:33 ingy nightnight all
08:33 castaway night ingy
08:33 masak ingy:  the best depressed day of your life? :)
08:33 nothingmuch i'm happy, /and/ chubby
08:33 rindolf ingy: bye
08:33 masak night ingy
08:33 rindolf nothingmuch: you're not fat.
08:34 nothingmuch rindolf: not fat, like obese
08:34 nothingmuch but the mass that I do have is not very healthy mass
08:34 mj http://wiki.kn.vutbr.cz/mj/index.cgi?​Pugs%20on%20MS%20Windows%20-%20tests and links
08:34 * nothingmuch has no money to buy the bike he wants
08:34 masak how long before the bot thingy announces my patch? how does it work? do i have to do something?
08:34 nothingmuch but that shall be rectified in due time
08:34 rindolf nothingmuch: don't you have two jobs?
08:34 nothingmuch one, now
08:34 nothingmuch but i just bought a double bass
08:34 castaway it does it by itself, when it notices
08:34 nothingmuch and before that i bought a camera
08:34 rindolf nothingmuch: I see.
08:34 nothingmuch and before that a laptop
08:35 nothingmuch and a computer
08:35 rindolf nothingmuch: and an iPod.
08:35 nothingmuch and ....
08:35 * castaway hugs nothingmuch
08:35 nothingmuch an ipod was way before
08:35 nothingmuch i painted a house for that
08:35 rindolf nothingmuch: do you have a savings account?
08:35 rindolf Or an insurance?
08:35 nothingmuch savings account was dipped into, to cover the bass
08:35 nothingmuch and what would insurance help me?
08:36 rindolf nothingmuch: no, I meant, in case something bad happens to you.
08:36 rindolf So you won't spend all your money on accessories.
08:36 nothingmuch what should i insure?
08:37 nothingmuch the bass should be insured, as soon as the forms are faxed over
08:37 rindolf nothingmuch: is it a bass guitar?
08:37 castaway (savings, what are those?)
08:37 nothingmuch rindolf: bass guitars aren't that expensive
08:38 * rindolf is listening to Frankie Goes to Hollywood - Relax
08:38 nothingmuch http://xrl.us/frxn <-- double bass
08:38 rindolf nothingmuch: oh you mean a contra-bass. One of those huge violins.
08:39 nothingmuch it's not in the violin family, it's a viol (traditionally)
08:39 nothingmuch and it's called contra bass in german and hebrew
08:39 nothingmuch but upright bass or double bass in english
08:39 nothingmuch but yes, that's what i mean =)
08:39 rindolf nothingmuch: why do you need such an instrument for?
08:39 nothingmuch i don't know, it's just pretty
08:39 nothingmuch you, like to keep in your room
08:40 nothingmuch it takes up about 20% of the volume
08:40 nothingmuch but i can live with that
08:40 rindolf nothingmuch: you don't play it?
08:40 nothingmuch ofcourse i do, don't be silly
08:40 rindolf Heh.
08:40 boogie hi to all! is it possible to make a wish related to pugs here? :)
08:40 nothingmuch boogie: ofcourse
08:41 kungfuftr nothingmuch: yullo!
08:41 masak "roses are flowers
08:41 masak viols are bass
08:41 masak what is it good for?
08:41 masak put it in your ear"
08:41 nothingmuch hola kungfuftr
08:41 nothingmuch masak: seek help =)
08:41 kungfuftr nothingmuch: i have a new template and css file for you
08:41 masak :)
08:41 boogie i'm interested in pugs on the web, and "read" support is needed fo it. ;)
08:41 nothingmuch darcs send, kungfuftr )
08:41 kungfuftr nothingmuch: no darcs here
08:41 nothingmuch s/\)$/=)/
08:41 nothingmuch aaah! no darcs!
08:42 nothingmuch ok, so send a unidiff,
08:42 nothingmuch or nopaste it somewhere
08:42 nothingmuch or, i dunno
08:42 kungfuftr http://kungfuftr.com/template-tg.html and http://kungfuftr.com/tg.css
08:42 kungfuftr (i have a slightly newer version, but that's at home
08:42 nothingmuch ok
08:42 nothingmuch what does it do differently?
08:43 nothingmuch xhtml 1.1?
08:43 nothingmuch i see funny tags
08:44 nothingmuch and I see css saying display: table-cell, etc
08:44 nothingmuch but i can't say if that's the whole difference
08:44 nothingmuch (btw, how backwards compatible is this?)
08:44 kungfuftr not hugely, tbh
08:45 kungfuftr anything that's CSS2 and xhtml will support it
08:45 nothingmuch ok
08:45 nothingmuch i'll apply it soon
08:45 kungfuftr nice thing is that it gives the ability not only to view it, but to parse it as XML too
08:45 nothingmuch yeah
08:45 nothingmuch although if you're sane you just usse Test::TAP::Model =)
08:46 kungfuftr yar, need to change the code to not use classnames as selectors at some point too
08:46 boogie nothingmuch: so is there somebody who could implement "read"? :))
08:47 nothingmuch like read($fh)?
08:47 nothingmuch with byte counts?
08:47 boogie yes, read($fh, $string, $length);
08:48 nothingmuch i can try
08:48 nothingmuch but in about 30 minutes
08:48 * nothingmuch has to do some C++ hacking
08:48 nothingmuch =(
08:48 boogie personally, I would do it on a socket, but on normal STDIN would be usefull, too.
08:48 boogie thanks a lot!
08:57 mj my $b = [ <a b> ];
08:57 mj say $b[0].ref ~ $b[1].ref ~ $b[2].ref;
08:57 mj StrStrScalar
08:57 mj undef == Scalar ?
08:59 mj and
08:59 mj my $b = [ { <a b> }, { a } ];
08:59 mj say $b[]().ref;
09:02 mj and
09:02 mj my $c = [ { <a b> } ];
09:02 mj say 'c ' ~ $c[]().ref ~ $c().ref;
09:03 mj second my $b ... pugs crasses ... third 'c ListList'
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09:12 mj :-) || :-( ,,,  i can't reproduce crash
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09:16 mj my $a = undef; say $a.ref; # Scalar ... seems ok
09:17 mj so question is
09:17 mj my $a = [ { 1 } ]; say $a().ref; # Inf
09:17 mj my $b = [ { 1 }, { 2 } ]; say $b().ref; # pugs: cannot cast from VList [VCode...
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09:30 autrijus mj: make them into tests!
09:30 autrijus mj: do you have committer bit?
09:31 gugod has joined #perl6
09:32 autrijus brb...
09:33 mj mj := rootmj; # committer bit found
09:33 mj time to go home, maybe tomorrow
09:34 masak hi autrijus
09:37 masak i found a deep array modification bug when trying to write tic-tac-toe
09:38 masak -bash-3.00$ pugs -e 'my $a = [[2]]; $a[0][0] = 6; say $a'
09:38 masak Can't modify constant item
09:38 masak Val VUndef
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09:55 kungfuftr masak: looks possibly like an auto-quoting bug (ie: is trying to subscript instead of assigning value '2')
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09:59 masak kungfuftr: i don't understand but i don't think it matters... i'm only a tester :)
09:59 * masak has to learn haskell soon
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10:08 nothingmuch autrijus: ping
10:13 tiw hi nothingmuch
10:13 nothingmuch hola
10:13 nothingmuch que tiw?
10:13 tiw is dereference implemented?
10:13 nothingmuch i have no clue
10:13 nothingmuch i'm out of date
10:14 tiw aha, me too
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10:20 * nothingmuch goes to drive dad
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12:24 machack666 is this expected behavior: pugs -e 'say (3).ref' --> Int
12:24 machack666 pugs -e 'say 3.ref' --> parse error (unexpected 'r')
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12:35 stevan boogie: what are you looking to do?
12:36 stevan boogie: have you seen the CGI and LWP::Simple in Pugs already?
12:36 stevan nothingmuch: ping
12:38 stevan pugs -e 'say ref(undef())' # Scalar
12:38 stevan I think that makes sense :)
12:39 boogie stevan: I would like to "hack" a web server.
12:39 boogie stevan: just a small for playing around
12:40 stevan boogie: I was thinking of doing that too :)
12:40 stevan boogie: have you see examples/network ?
12:40 boogie stevan: Yes, on the perl-compiler mailing list as "Andras Barthazi" I had some mail
12:41 stevan boogie: ahhh, welcome :)
12:41 stevan boogie: did you get the commiter invite yet? I just sent it to you
12:42 boogie Yes, I've started reading it now. :)
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12:44 nothingmuch pong
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12:57 cognominal in haskell, one can use a function name as an operator, say:  x 'mod' 2
12:57 cognominal Is there anything like this in Perl6?
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12:59 stevan &infix:<my-op>
12:59 stevan or something like that (i think)
13:05 cognominal thx:  that means that one don't even needs the quotes unlike haskell
13:09 autrijus x `mod` 2
13:09 autrijus and yes:
13:09 autrijus &infix:<mod> ::= &mod;
13:10 autrijus or if you are feeling haskellish
13:10 autrijus &infix:<`mod`> ::= &mod;
13:11 autrijus hrm. does :x-on-by-default applies to :perl5 also?
13:12 autrijus I'll assume so
13:14 stevan autrijus: I would think so
13:14 masak stevan: there's a comitter invite? what is it?
13:14 autrijus cool. expect full flags coming
13:14 stevan masak: are you a committer?
13:14 masak yes
13:14 stevan autrijus++
13:15 stevan the invite is just the mail sent from OSSF
13:15 masak ah, ok
13:16 masak i seem to remember it vaguely... parts of it were in korean :)
13:16 stevan chinese :)
13:17 masak right :) i still haven't managed to conf fedora core 3 to show any of those correctly :(
13:17 Coke_ has left
13:18 * masak wants chinese characters
13:18 stevan masak: thats why I like OSX ,.. it all works out of the box
13:18 masak osx++
13:18 * stevan has several asian fonts installed,.. but can read none of them
13:19 kungfuftr nothingmuch: you like?
13:21 stevan has anyone told perl-qa about Test::TAP::Model?
13:21 kungfuftr don't think so, have a feeling it's not quite ready just yet
13:22 stevan kungfuftr: I disagree,.. the official module is not ready, but the Pugs version is up and working
13:22 stevan we could show them that
13:22 kungfuftr up and working?
13:22 autrijus sanity-check:
13:22 stevan the smoke tests you run
13:22 autrijus            { rxRegex  = mkRegexWithPCRE (encodeUTF8 str) $
13:22 autrijus                [ flag_i `implies` pcreCaseless
13:22 autrijus                , pcreExtended      -- Always assume /x
13:22 autrijus                , pcreDotall        -- . matchs \n
13:22 autrijus                , pcreDollarEndonly -- $ does not match \n$
13:22 autrijus                ]
13:22 autrijus i.e. even if you write :p5
13:22 kungfuftr stevan: current smoke stuff i'm running is what's in util/
13:22 autrijus it adds  //sx for you
13:23 autrijus and cause $ to not match the eol \n
13:23 autrijus thus agreeing with p6 default behaviour
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13:23 stevan kungfuftr: yeah that stuff
13:23 autrijus sane? (you can always turn it on/off inside the rx)
13:23 stevan autrijus: I am not a p5 rexexp guru, and I like the p6 ones better, so I am not a good judge
13:23 kungfuftr stevan: that stuff isn't Test-TAP-Model, it's it's predecessor
13:23 stevan but yes I think its sane :)
13:23 autrijus :D
13:24 autrijus ok. I'll do that and if people are hurt, they'll yell
13:24 stevan autrijus: but many people (including my family) question *my* sanity , so I am not a good judge of that either
13:24 autrijus another option is to suddenly allow perl5 modifiers after :p5
13:24 autrijus i.e.
13:24 autrijus :p5:s:m///
13:24 stevan kungfuftr: I am just thinking that we can say "test::TAP::*" is on the way,.. and here is the early version
13:25 stevan autrijus: are you shortening it to :p5:?
13:25 autrijus that may create another insanity mess though, so I tend not to go there
13:25 autrijus stevan: e05 says both :p5 and :perl5
13:25 autrijus but s05 does not mention :perl5
13:25 stevan autrijus: p5: is much nicer
13:25 autrijus I think I'll allow both.
13:25 stevan sounds good to me
13:25 kungfuftr stevan: i'd wait, tbh... tighten it down a little
13:25 stevan kungfuftr: ok with me
13:25 autrijus strangely we almost always agree.
13:26 stevan autrijus: scary isnt it
13:26 stevan perl 6 makes so much more sense to me
13:26 stevan I love perl(5), but before this project started I was feeling the Ruby/Python/Java pull
13:27 autrijus indeed.
13:27 stevan craving multi-subs/methods, type, etc
13:27 kungfuftr new template stuff++ # it's XML, but yet you can view it directly in firefox/<sane browsers>
13:27 autrijus and I guess CPAN was keeping you afloat as well
13:27 * stevan likes XML actually
13:27 kungfuftr nothingmuch: you going to be around at 7pm BST?
13:27 * autrijus likes XML with XML::Twig only
13:28 stevan autrijus: that and the 13K of perl5 code which keeps our company afloat :)
13:28 nothingmuch BST? what's that?
13:28 stevan XML::SAX++
13:28 autrijus 13kloc is not terribly large :)
13:28 kungfuftr british standard time, 1 hour ahead of GMT
13:28 nothingmuch i'm leaving for my bass lesson in about an hour and a half
13:28 autrijus I imagine porting it to p6 will be ~2wk of work
13:28 nothingmuch then i am going to a friend
13:28 stevan autrijus: exactly :)
13:28 nothingmuch should be back by midnight
13:28 nothingmuch which is 22 gmt
13:28 nothingmuch 21 bst, appearantly
13:28 stevan but porting it to Ruby/Python etc is not possible
13:29 nothingmuch if daylight savings is in synch
13:29 kungfuftr ah! k, well i should have more improved templates for you then
13:29 stevan (it depends on mod_perl, DBI, etc)
13:29 nothingmuch is gmtime 13:30 or 14:30?
13:29 nothingmuch one can never trust computers when it comes to israeli DST, which is determined pretty much at random every year
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13:30 nothingmuch kungfuftr: goody =)
13:30 machack666 has left
13:30 kungfuftr nothingmuch: use subversion!!
13:30 kungfuftr since darcs is broken on *bsd currently
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13:30 nothingmuch kungfuftr: =(
13:30 kungfuftr svk++
13:30 nothingmuch my home box is disconnected too often for svn to be useful
13:31 nothingmuch and i haven't really used svk enough
13:31 nothingmuch i might sometime
13:31 kungfuftr perfect usage for svk
13:31 nothingmuch but i *really* like darcs
13:31 kungfuftr it's very nice, bloody similar to svn
13:31 nothingmuch and i have 0 time right now
13:31 kungfuftr np! have fun
13:31 nothingmuch especially with antihistemines ruining my sleep cycle
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13:32 boogie I'm trying to run module tests, and I got errors. Somebody can tell me, what' wrong?
13:32 nothingmuch boogie: what are the errors?
13:32 nothingmuch perlbot nopaste
13:32 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
13:32 boogie This is the messege from the *.t files: /.../boogie/work/pugss/pugs/blib/script/pugs: No such file or directory
13:33 nothingmuch btw, i didn't get to read(), i'm being suffocated today
13:33 nothingmuch how are you running the *.t? prove? make test?
13:33 nothingmuch hmm
13:33 nothingmuch are you make installing?
13:33 nothingmuch ./pugs t/foo.t?
13:33 autrijus ok, regex patch is in.
13:33 boogie make test in the pugs/ext/CGI/lib directory
13:33 autrijus enjoy
13:33 * nothingmuch 's never done that
13:34 nothingmuch can't really say
13:34 nothingmuch autrijus: releng issues?
13:34 nothingmuch boogie: try HARNESS_PERL="/full/path/to/pugs"
13:34 nothingmuch (the executable)
13:34 autrijus nothingmuch: what releng issues? util/pugs_config.h not regenerated by default?
13:34 nothingmuch no, what boogie is experiencing
13:34 autrijus oh
13:34 nothingmuch and then PERL6LIB="/ful/path/to/ext/Test/lib"
13:35 nothingmuch export these two variables
13:35 autrijus the tests are meant to be run from toplevel
13:35 autrijus not from the ext/ itself
13:35 nothingmuch and then try prove t/ in the dir
13:35 autrijus that's all
13:35 autrijus i.e. known issue. fixes welcom
13:35 autrijus e
13:35 nothingmuch Test::TAP::Visualize::HTMLMatrix is being tested to detah
13:35 autrijus I want that :D
13:35 boogie nothingmuch: read() is not a big problem, but it would be nice it would work. I you'll have some time, please try to hack in. ;)
13:35 nothingmuch we have a home grown C++ unit framework
13:35 autrijus nothingmuch: will you backport it to pugs?
13:35 nothingmuch it's also using TAP
13:35 stevan boogie: inside ext/CGI/ run this: prove -I lib/ t/*.t
13:35 stevan that should work
13:36 nothingmuch since it catches SEGV, divide by zero, and all other typically very fatal things it's the first use of Bail out i've seen
13:36 nothingmuch so that is supported
13:36 nothingmuch autrijus: it will stay p5, because i want it to use a templating toolkit
13:36 nothingmuch but i will make testgraph.pl use it
13:36 boogie autrijus: thanks for the tip :)
13:36 nothingmuch Real Soon Now™
13:37 nothingmuch btw, you can darcs get it
13:37 autrijus nothingmuch: no, I mean port pugs to use that
13:37 autrijus port the existing util/ stuff
13:37 autrijus so, exactly what you just said :)
13:37 autrijus Real Soon Now++
13:38 nothingmuch i'll do that eventually
13:38 nothingmuch that was the initial plan anyway
13:38 autrijus nothingmuch++
13:38 nothingmuch btw, kungfuftr: as far as I'm concerned, if you want write access to my public repo, and a shell on my box to use darcs, it can be arranged
13:39 kungfuftr oh, got vim?
13:39 nothingmuch is there any other editor?
13:39 nothingmuch =D
13:39 * nothingmuch just tought the new sysadmin some vim
13:39 nothingmuch with a 3d matrix metaphor
13:39 kungfuftr wait a sec
13:39 nothingmuch and he basically said "cooooool"
13:40 kungfuftr autrijus: can svk mirror darc repostiories?
13:40 autrijus kungfuftr: no. want to help?
13:40 kungfuftr doh
13:40 autrijus VCP::src::darcs
13:40 * nothingmuch planned on doing that
13:40 nothingmuch =(
13:40 nothingmuch but then again, i didn't learn SVK either
13:40 autrijus or just a simple darcs2svn
13:40 autrijus and we can reuse that
13:40 * stevan needs to try out SVK again
13:40 nothingmuch there's darcs2svn
13:40 nothingmuch the other way is a bit harder
13:40 kungfuftr nothingmuch: i've never used darcs, but hey, i can learn
13:41 nothingmuch it's very simple
13:41 nothingmuch so i doubt there'll be any trouble
13:41 kungfuftr yeah, sounds like a plan then
13:41 nothingmuch kungfuftr: there was a small Petal error in my template, btw
13:41 nothingmuch i fixed it now
13:41 kungfuftr ah, might be changed code, etc
13:41 nothingmuch what login would you like?
13:43 kungfuftr kungfuftr/scott
13:43 kungfuftr either or
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13:48 nothingmuch http://www.zanorg.com/pitbull/shakingpope.swf
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14:02 kungfuftr nothingmuch: ta!
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14:17 cognominal wky so much hate. this guy  was about the only one fighting against all sort of slavery invented in the sake of liberalism. This flash game is fun, though.
14:17 nothingmuch i don't think he was bad
14:17 nothingmuch it's all good fun
14:17 cognominal :)
14:18 nothingmuch i think our own religeon-monkies are much worse
14:19 nothingmuch they are corrupt, vile, hateful, and manupulative
14:19 stevan cognominal: I dont think it's hate,... a little mean spirited maybe
14:19 stevan and you have to realize that to some people (ex-catholics) he symbolizes a lot of negative things
14:19 cognominal I hated instutionalized religion, his marial cult was almost paganist and his postion of contraception was backward. but he was probably the best pope catholicsm could have.
14:20 stevan cognominal: yes, but that is not saying much :)
14:20 * nothingmuch doesn't know enough to enter this argument
14:20 cognominal and if they elect a pope in the southern hemisphere, this can shake things.
14:20 stevan the contraception position alone can be used to blame much of the AIDS crisis in africa
14:21 stevan I personally am hoping for a non-european pope
14:21 stevan by which I mean an african or south american
14:21 stevan that alone will force so many people to deal with their own personal latent racism
14:21 nothingmuch that could be cool
14:21 stevan and I think that is a good thing :)
14:22 nothingmuch stevan++
14:22 stevan nothingmuch++
14:22 stevan but then again I am a bitter ex-catholic, so I should probably not talk anymore about this :)
14:23 cognominal I had a friend, a born provocative, who went to a moonist church and said he could not accept tha the leader of a church cannot be white :)
14:24 cognominal ok, back to learning haskell
14:24 stevan cognominal: the reign of the white european will hopefully end soon,.. we (I am one) have not done a very good job IMO
14:24 cognominal stevan: just see the AUTHORS in pugs :)
14:24 stevan cognominal: yup :)
14:25 stevan Pugs is mucho internationale
14:25 * stevan just makes up languages sometimes
14:25 autrijus o/~ l'internationale / unites the sentient races o/~
14:25 cognominal and most good research papers in the states are by indian or chinese. This say much about the future of the states
14:26 * stevan tries to light an american flag on fire .... :P
14:27 cognominal I will denounce you as a terrorist
14:27 nothingmuch update AUTHORS
14:27 * stevan damn lighter is not working
14:27 * nothingmuch bought a zipp
14:27 nothingmuch o
14:27 nothingmuch that usually works
14:27 autrijus mmm more right-to-left love
14:27 nothingmuch not that i smoke that often
14:28 stevan cognominal: bah! I've been on The List for years
14:28 stevan it all started with that trip to the Soviet embassy in Mexico city with my buddy Lee Harvey
14:28 cognominal come to Europe, we are decadent, but at least we know about it.
14:29 stevan cognominal: I used to live in Germany, I miss it actually
14:29 * stevan 's father worked for the US Govt. for 20 years
14:30 cognominal I must say I like European cities in that states, like SF or NY.
14:30 stevan I used to live in NYC too :)
14:30 stevan but rents got too much and my wife had twins and we needed room :)
14:31 rgs stevan: so maybe you know about the atalien landing field in nevada ?
14:31 rgs http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.627187,-116.84​7925&amp;spn=0.020814,0.030427&amp;t=k&amp;hl=en
14:31 rgs s/atalien/alien/ :)
14:32 stevan rgs: not that branch of the Govt :)
14:32 rgs :)
14:32 stevan (although that would have been really cool)
14:32 nothingmuch mom? where's dad? is he coming home?
14:32 stevan actually he used to investigate fraud in govt. contracting,.. so I was raised to be very anti-corporate (which makes job hunting hard)
14:32 nothingmuch no, Stevan, he is working very hard on something
14:33 stevan ground control to stevan's dad......
14:33 nothingmuch in fact, he worked so hard, that the gov't decided to reward him, and give him a sort of, vacation
14:33 stevan LOL
14:33 stevan I'm half martian :P
14:36 stevan I actually tend to not believe in govt. conspiracies because I know how f*cked up and confused the govt. is and know that they could not pull anything so complex off
14:36 cognominal I was searching that quote.   America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.? Oscar Wilde. Hopefully american in the perl communauty are very nice
14:36 nothingmuch that's why the MIB excuse is there
14:36 nothingmuch conspiracies above the govt
14:36 stevan cognominal: thats a great quote
14:36 nothingmuch to make sure it's done right ;-)
14:37 * stevan hears a knock on his door and hides under his desk
14:39 nothingmuch oh crap, there's my old house!
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14:39 nothingmuch http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.627187,-116.84​7925&amp;spn=0.020814,0.030427&amp;t=k&amp;hl=en
14:39 nothingmuch no wait
14:39 nothingmuch how do you take a link to a google map?
14:40 theorbtwo Click the "link to this page" link in the upper-right corner.
14:40 nothingmuch oops
14:40 nothingmuch theorbtwo++
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14:42 stevan there is my old building: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1619+3rd+ave​,New+York,+NY&amp;ll=40.78292369842529,-73​.95159244537354&amp;spn=0.0193548202514648​44,0.024805068969726562&amp;t=k&amp;hl=en
14:42 stevan google maps ++
14:42 theorbtwo Sadly, there is horrible resolution around where I used to live.
14:42 stevan theorbtwo: yeah the same with my current house
14:43 theorbtwo Oddly, there's a seam along the exact borders of Massachusetts.
14:43 clkao win23
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14:53 stevan ok I am off to $work, later all
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15:00 nothingmuch beh, back
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15:07 boogie Hmm. I'm not sure, but it seems to me, that something broken with the current pugs version. When I'm trying to run tests of the CGI modul, it gives no error, but going to sleep during testing.
15:08 boogie Maybe regexp? Can somebody check it? Revision 1962 is OK.
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15:56 jabbot pugs - 1960 - Refactored test locations after S29
15:56 jabbot pugs - 1961 - Add identity tests for arrays and hashes
15:56 jabbot pugs - 1962 - test for changing of nested array
15:56 jabbot pugs - 1963 - * :p5 allows as well as :perl5 for regex
15:56 jabbot pugs - 1964 - * die "" confuses harness, so use exit()
15:56 jabbot pugs - 1965 - Gaal's name in AUTHORS can also have heb
15:56 jabbot pugs - 1966 - * Reverted to "is" instead of "isnt"
15:56 jabbot pugs - 1967 - <nothingmuch> $a = [ 1, 2, 3 ; 4, 5, 0 ]
15:56 jabbot pugs - 1968 - utf-8 URL decoding support with some tes
15:56 jabbot pugs - 1969 - Converted tabs to spaces and fixed inden
16:03 masak has joined #perl6
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16:11 * theorbtwo wonders if it's too early to start thinking about a gtk binding via gtk2hs.
16:11 BigBear has quit IRC (Client Quit)
16:17 crysflame hello stack of commits
16:24 justatheory has joined #perl6
16:36 gaal theorbtwo, not to early
16:37 gaal me want me want
16:37 gaal though we do need objects.
16:40 theorbtwo Exactly my wonderment.
16:40 bigblue99 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
16:41 theorbtwo ...esp because there does not seem to be a callback in place for "a method got called on us" in the IType system.
16:41 gcom has joined #perl6
16:42 theorbtwo I could do a lot of faking, but I'd prefer to not do that now, since it'd just mean a rewrite latter down the chute.
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16:48 autrijus cwest: oh. you're here.
16:48 * autrijus switches channel
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16:55 jabbot pugs - 1970 - Upgraded HTML::Entities and discovered t
16:55 stevan kungfuftr: do you have that URL for nothingmuch's Test::TAP darcs repo?
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17:01 stevan boogie: you need to add yourself to the AUTHORS file, and the CGI AUTHORS section
17:03 machack666 has quit IRC ("This machine just fell asleep")
17:04 autrijus ...and thus make hangman.p6 more challenging to win
17:04 autrijus ...which is a Good Thing
17:04 stevan ;)
17:04 * stevan is off to have lunch
17:08 boogie stevan: ok
17:08 boogie autrijus: :D
17:08 ninereasons is there an svn command to delete everything with status "?", as listed by "svn status" ?
17:10 saorge has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
17:10 autrijus svn status | grep ^\\? | xargs rm
17:10 autrijus or, easier:
17:10 autrijus rm -rf *; svn up
17:10 autrijus :)
17:11 ninereasons I've done the second one,  often enough :)
17:21 rindolf has left "Client Exiting"
17:22 kungfuftr bbiam
17:25 jabbot pugs - 1971 - * :i :m :s :x now all work in :P5 mode.
17:26 autrijus stevan: larry overruled us
17:26 autrijus so, no /x by default
17:30 osfameron has quit IRC ("Leaving")
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17:36 crysflame :(
17:38 autrijus that means you won't have to rewrite your old regex when porting over tho.
17:44 ingy hola
17:45 autrijus yo ingy.
17:45 autrijus I'm journaling, about to sleep
17:45 jabbot pugs - 1972 - ":perl5" modifier now spelled ":Perl5"
17:54 gaal autrijus: bug in the changelog/latest journal entry. [1..10][0] != 0 :)
17:55 ingy :)
17:56 autrijus ...
17:56 autrijus it's assignment
17:56 autrijus assignment!
17:56 crysflame heh
17:56 gaal haha
17:56 masak :)
17:57 gaal with autovivification even
17:57 gaal well, potentially.
17:58 autrijus yup
18:00 gaal my $x; $x[2][1][0]="liftof"; $x.perl.say
18:01 autrijus that looks good
18:01 gaal yes
18:01 gaal except i should spell it "liftoff". :)
18:02 theorbtwo Allo, autrijus, the newly-natively-spelled-in-AUTHORS gaal, others.
18:02 gaal urrr?
18:02 wolverian hello.
18:02 wolverian sleeping through the day is the best thing ever.
18:03 wolverian is there any patch limit for adding oneself to AUTHORS?
18:03 gaal aha! that nothingmuch, less pizza for him :)
18:03 autrijus journal up. g'nite!
18:03 wolverian good night. :)
18:03 gaal night autrijus
18:05 kungfuftr moo
18:11 * theorbtwo notices that Autrijus never answered my question about gtk.
18:13 autrijus theorbtwo: it's never too early. go for it.
18:13 autrijus 'nite! &
18:15 kungfuftr autrijus: know anything about web access on pasta.woobling.org?
18:15 theorbtwo G'night.
18:16 castaway it belongs to nothingmuch
18:17 kungfuftr yeah, to to find a way to get http access to my account
18:17 castaway http access?
18:20 kungfuftr ah
18:20 gollem has left
18:22 ninereasons i'm irritated that I misread iblech's bug report
18:23 castaway in the channel?
18:23 ninereasons no, a committed pugsbug
18:24 ninereasons i seem to be having more trouble with english than with perl
18:24 ninereasons not a good sign at my age.
18:24 castaway awww
18:25 * theorbtwo wonders what that age is.
18:25 jabbot pugs - 1973 - Updated qotw-regular-24.p6 to work aroun
18:25 jabbot pugs - 1974 - The context inside of hash and array con
18:25 jabbot pugs - 1975 - * P5 flags are now spelled as :P5<imsgx>
18:25 ninereasons ancient, by pugs norms.
18:26 castaway I think you're getting forgetful in your young age, love
18:26 theorbtwo Getting?
18:26 castaway ok, are ;)
18:26 ninereasons I think i might be the oldest here, and perhaps the least experienced as well - at 48
18:26 theorbtwo Ah.
18:26 * castaway was close, said 47 ;)
18:27 castaway you must look younger, ninereasons ;)
18:27 ninereasons http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=44862
18:28 castaway ooh, black&white.. ancient ,)
18:28 ninereasons :)
18:30 theorbtwo 9: Larry is older then you.
18:32 ninereasons yes, but he doesn't hang around here.  lots of young people in #perl6
18:32 * ninereasons hates the sound it makes when he says "young people"
18:32 castaway heh
18:32 kungfuftr yay!
18:33 castaway yay?
18:33 ninereasons access to pasta?
18:35 ninereasons kungfufter, celebrating all alone?  where's the fun?
18:36 Corion has joined #perl6
18:36 castaway Corion!
18:37 Corion castaway!
18:38 * Corion would really like it if the people changing Pugs --version would also change the tests they break.
18:40 kungfuftr ninereasons: heh... well if i can remember how to set up my own local perllib, everything will be hokeydokey
18:41 * Corion wonders why tests show as broken in the test graph, but work when run from the command line ...
18:41 ninereasons Corion,  a harness thing, maybe?
18:42 Corion ninereasons: Might be, yes ...
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18:55 jabbot pugs - 1976 - map dies with an untrappable error messa
18:55 jabbot pugs - 1977 - Oops, description of previous checkin ma
18:55 jabbot pugs - 1978 - Fixed --version tests failing
18:55 jabbot pugs - 1979 - Fixed changed filename of fp-p6
18:56 chady has joined #perl6
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19:03 kungfuftr ninereasons: http://pasta.woobling.org/~kungfuftr/Tes​t-TAP-Visualize-HTMLMatrix/example.xhtml
19:03 kungfuftr have a looky at the source
19:03 kungfuftr q
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19:08 nothingmuch good evening
19:08 castaway 4nm!
19:08 castaway oops s/4//
19:08 nothingmuch 3cast34y!
19:08 theorbtwo ~~0
19:08 stevan nothingmuch: mah main man
19:09 nothingmuch stevan: their auxillery woman!
19:09 kungfuftr nothingmuch: yullo
19:09 nothingmuch hola kungfuftr
19:10 nothingmuch i am back early, as you can see
19:10 * kungfuftr hacking now
19:10 nothingmuch as we say in hebrew, someone banged up a tap for me
19:10 Corion kungfuftr: Looks nice indeed
19:10 kungfuftr nothingmuch: http://pasta.woobling.org/~kungfuftr/Tes​t-TAP-Visualize-HTMLMatrix/example.xhtml (improved version)
19:10 nothingmuch (tap, like a water tap)
19:10 nothingmuch ooh, purrrdy
19:10 nothingmuch what about spreading them out nicely?
19:11 kungfuftr oh? that not werking for you?
19:11 nothingmuch nope
19:11 kungfuftr hhhmmm... odd
19:11 Corion Spreads nicely over 100% of the body for me
19:11 nothingmuch i'll try to see why
19:11 Corion (where conventional lotion only covers 95% of my body)
19:12 nothingmuch i'm also not seeing bgcolor for testrunpercent
19:12 nothingmuch Corion: no visual metaphors please
19:12 kungfuftr nothingmuch: which browser?
19:13 nothingmuch sort of
19:13 nothingmuch safari
19:13 nothingmuch which ~~ konqueror
19:13 kungfuftr ah, khtml--
19:15 nothingmuch i think maybe the display: table stuff is giving it crap
19:16 kungfuftr yeah, safari isn't CSS2 compliant yet
19:16 nothingmuch oi crapxor
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19:30 kungfuftr nothingmuch: any idea what the .nottest class is for?
19:30 nothingmuch yes
19:30 nothingmuch diag from before test output
19:30 nothingmuch but it's not in template.html yet
19:30 nothingmuch i was doing edge cases on bail out behavior today
19:32 stevan hey I was thinking
19:32 stevan I dont like YAML
19:32 stevan (no offense INGY)
19:32 stevan how flexible is the underlying Test::Harness collector
19:32 nothingmuch that's why Test::TAP::Model is agnostic
19:33 stevan can I write an XML::SAX collector?
19:33 nothingmuch it is a subclass of Test::Harness::Straps
19:33 stevan nothingmuch++
19:33 nothingmuch that's pretty easy
19:33 nothingmuch override _handle_test in Test::TAP::Model
19:33 stevan gaal++ # cause it was his cracked out idea to start with
19:33 nothingmuch to generate events instead
19:33 stevan cool I will look into that later tonight maybe
19:33 nothingmuch (actually i am shamelessly taking credit for that, it's just that i never got around to it, and he did ;-)
19:33 * theorbtwo needs a project.
19:34 kungfuftr nothingmuch: you might need to darcs get
19:34 stevan theorbtwo: you like XML::SAX?
19:34 nothingmuch i'll do it momentarily
19:34 * stevan really likes XML::SAX
19:34 theorbtwo Not purticularly.
19:34 stevan theorbtwo: you'll love it :)
19:34 stevan none of this tree building crap,.. pure stream/event based processing
19:34 stevan very clean, very nice
19:34 theorbtwo I think the stuff in util/ works fine, and am not purticularly intersted in rewriting the stuff that's already there without making it appreciblally better.
19:35 * theorbtwo finds print to be a very nice clean way of generating HTML.
19:35 stevan theorbtwo: well at least for Test::TAP::Model I dont like having YAML as a dependency because it seems to have issues
19:35 kungfuftr theorbtwo: should have a peek at the testgraph i did
19:35 nothingmuch stevan: i prefer Storable for it because it's much faster
19:36 nothingmuch theorbtwo: sinner
19:36 theorbtwo YAML is diffable, though, which can be nice.
19:36 nothingmuch i see serializing modules this way:
19:36 stevan so is XML
19:36 nothingmuch YAML is for humans
19:36 nothingmuch Data::Dumper is for debugging
19:36 nothingmuch Storable is for storing
19:37 kungfuftr how often does anyone _actually_ look at yaml that's used for serialisation?
19:37 stevan XML is streamable too,.. YAML is not
19:37 nothingmuch YAML is also nice for config files
19:38 nothingmuch YAML is supposed to be streamable
19:38 stevan nothingmuch: it is not
19:38 theorbtwo Also, XML knows how to deal with charsets.
19:38 stevan you have to build the whole thing at once
19:38 theorbtwo XML is understood by people outside of the perl world.
19:38 stevan before you write it
19:38 stevan theorbtwo: naw yur cookin!
19:39 theorbtwo In any case, like I said, I think there are no major problems with the util/ stuff as it exists, and am not purticularly interested in a rewrite that does not have substantitive new features that interest me.
19:39 nothingmuch i think doclinker should be generailzed into a module
19:39 stevan its less for util/ and more for Test::TAP::Model
19:40 * nothingmuch debugs
19:40 theorbtwo I think the stuff in util could be cp'd and released as a bunch of scripts without major changes.
19:40 theorbtwo ...and I'd prefer the end-result doesn't require much more then it already does.
19:41 stevan theorbtwo: aside from the doclinker,.. thats what Test::TAP::Model is right?
19:42 theorbtwo As far as I could tell from what I looked at the other day, Test::TAP::Model was a rewrite with a big dependency or three.
19:42 stevan what deps?
19:42 theorbtwo Er, wait.
19:42 theorbtwo Test::TAP::Model isn't what I mean.
19:42 theorbtwo I mean Test::TAP::Visualizer::HTMLMatrix
19:42 stevan yes
19:43 nothingmuch Test::TAP::Model? no deps
19:43 nothingmuch Test::TAP::Visualize::HTMLMatrix needs Petal
19:43 nothingmuch that's all
19:43 * nothingmuch prefers dependancies over flakiness
19:43 * theorbtwo doesn't think his code is flakey.
19:43 nothingmuch there were many cases it didn't handle
19:43 nothingmuch and it was pretty hard to read
19:43 nothingmuch and harder to modif
19:43 stevan nothingmuch: is ::HTMLMatrix structured that we can use any template module?
19:43 nothingmuch IMHO
19:43 nothingmuch stevan: in theory yes
19:44 nothingmuch it's basically just marrying Test::TAP::Model with Petal
19:44 nothingmuch in not too many lines of code
19:44 theorbtwo Oh, you should have said something; I would have put in another sub or two.
19:44 stevan Test::TAP::Visualizer::HTML::Template , etc etc etc
19:44 nothingmuch TT should be tres simple
19:44 stevan TT can be a pain to install sometimes
19:44 stevan ideally it can support all forms of templating,... even print()
19:45 stevan plugins man,... plugins
19:45 nothingmuch too much for 0.01
19:45 stevan wussy
19:45 * theorbtwo shrugs.
19:45 nothingmuch i was concentrating on Test::TAP::Model
19:45 nothingmuch which is where the logic is at
19:45 theorbtwo You're welcome to do whatever you like with my code, just credit me and I'm fine.
19:45 nothingmuch theorbtwo: you shall be
19:46 nothingmuch worry not
19:52 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
19:55 * masak says good night
19:55 nothingmuch night
19:55 jabbot pugs - 1980 - LWP::Simple test fix
19:57 stevan nothingmuch: what time is it there for you?
19:57 nothingmuch 22:57
19:58 Limbic_Region chip about?
19:58 Limbic_Region seen chip?
19:58 jabbot Limbic_Region: chip was seen on Fri Apr  8 19:06:05 2005 GMT
19:59 vladtz has quit IRC ("Leaving")
20:01 kungfuftr nothingmuch: there be no more HTML!!
20:01 nothingmuch aaah! what have you done?
20:02 nothingmuch what have you done with it's body?
20:02 kungfuftr it's still here, the rest is all xml now though (apart from links)
20:03 hattmoward has quit IRC ("mr t ate my balls")
20:04 kungfuftr should be some more tidying up and that's be about it
20:04 * nothingmuch tries very hard to think of another ref to brazil, but just cann't
20:04 * kungfuftr & # food
20:04 nothingmuch ok
20:04 nothingmuch how about khtml?
20:04 hattmoward has joined #perl6
20:05 kungfuftr not css2 compliant, gecko and opera are the closest tbh
20:05 nothingmuch so we just drop support? i'm not sure that's a good idea
20:05 Corion khtml ... KDE is for losers anyway! :-)))
20:06 nothingmuch khtml is used by safari too
20:06 nothingmuch and that's me
20:06 nothingmuch and i will use the module
20:06 nothingmuch baaah!
20:06 co3 is now known as co2
20:06 kungfuftr nothingmuch: screenshot?
20:06 nothingmuch sure
20:06 nothingmuch ooh, testgraph.pl wrangled
20:06 nothingmuch that was easy
20:07 nothingmuch as soon as i found out that _init was not calling SUPER::_init
20:07 nothingmuch gaal--; # not very careful
20:07 co2 has left "Client exiting"
20:09 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/badkhtml.jpg
20:10 kungfuftr hhhmmm... i sorta had to put a hack in for that... 2 secs, see if i can get it in another way
20:10 nothingmuch has left
20:10 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
20:11 Corion nothingmuch: Looks like a VU meter - funny too :)
20:11 nothingmuch vu meter?
20:11 Corion nothingmuch: Loudness / volume indicator
20:11 nothingmuch ah
20:11 Corion http://www.google.com/search?&amp;q=vu​%20meter%20image&amp;sourceid=firefox
20:12 Corion (google displays two images directly on the results page for me)
20:12 Corion "Google, the Emacs of Webservices" -- seen on slashdot
20:12 Corion ... but it doesn't show any images for "hardcore porn" on the search results page :)
20:12 nothingmuch when we have google os
20:12 nothingmuch that will auto spell check your syscalls
20:12 nothingmuch then i'll agree with that quote
20:12 kungfuftr nothingmuch: try now
20:13 nothingmuch blammo!
20:13 kungfuftr moo?
20:13 nothingmuch however: <testpercent style="background-color: #00ff00">100.00%</testpercent>
20:13 nothingmuch the style="" is a no op
20:14 nothingmuch btw, i would like to keep status=failed etc at 1 char
20:14 nothingmuch and make it reaaaaallly concise
20:14 nothingmuch because this stuff *grows*
20:15 kungfuftr bad idea, tbh. it's like having 15,000 lines of code with 2 character variable names
20:15 kungfuftr nothingmuch: so it working for you now?
20:15 nothingmuch the table is working
20:15 kungfuftr yay!
20:15 nothingmuch but the % column is all white
20:16 kungfuftr screen shot?
20:16 nothingmuch the style="background-color: #xxxxxx" stuff is not working
20:16 nothingmuch the old screenshot applies
20:16 nothingmuch the reason i want 1 char classes/attrs is that this makes it shrink by several kilobytes
20:17 nothingmuch the std testgraph.pl html is around 1mb
20:17 dakkar has quit IRC ("e via, verso nuove avventure")
20:17 Corion 800k for me
20:17 nothingmuch btw, i think there should be a black border on the left side of the whole table
20:18 nothingmuch and that the test "status" should be centered
20:18 nothingmuch and that "test file" should have colspan=2
20:18 nothingmuch but i don't insist
20:18 nothingmuch i would like some convincing though
20:18 kungfuftr nothingmuch: colspan is impossible unfortunately
20:18 nothingmuch ah
20:19 kungfuftr not sure what's going on with the testpercent stuff
20:19 kungfuftr think there's another possibility though
20:20 nothingmuch =/
20:21 nothingmuch theorbtwo: did you ever get around to hooking svn log -> authors -> coopyright?
20:22 kungfuftr nothingmuch: can you give me the rgb values for 0,10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90,100 percent?
20:22 nothingmuch the value is not hard coded
20:22 nothingmuch see Test::TAP::Visualize::HTMLMatrix::Colorful
20:23 nothingmuch my current thoughts are: XML for display might not be ready, if browser support is lacking
20:23 nothingmuch perhaps if it ain't broke we shouldn't fix it?
20:23 nothingmuch i would prefer, given current status of KHTML to backport the change
20:23 nothingmuch keep your patch around, but work on it
20:23 nothingmuch and in due time revert the patch that converts it to regular HTML
20:24 kungfuftr hhhmmm...
20:24 nothingmuch return sprintf("#ff%02x%02x", $l + ((255 - $l) * $ratio), $l-20);
20:24 nothingmuch $l is at 100
20:24 nothingmuch it gives it a slightly softer tone
20:24 kungfuftr bollocks that i don't have safari locally to test
20:25 nothingmuch true that
20:28 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("tiuq\")
20:30 kungfuftr nothingmuch: try now
20:31 nothingmuch nope
20:31 nothingmuch same old
20:31 kungfuftr should be a failure in the list, right?
20:31 nothingmuch yes
20:31 nothingmuch there is
20:31 nothingmuch but the 100% isn't green
20:31 nothingmuch and the 90+% isn't yellow
20:32 nothingmuch the matrix cells /are/ green and red
20:32 kungfuftr yeah, is here... very very weird
20:32 kungfuftr safari's not even obeying !important
20:32 nothingmuch *sigh*
20:32 nothingmuch technology sucks so much
20:33 kungfuftr 2 secs
20:37 crysflame safari normally obeys !important? that's odd
20:37 gaal yo.
20:37 nothingmuch hola gaal
20:37 hlen_ has quit IRC ("#debian_ - for a better freenode =)")
20:37 kungfuftr ah, safari rendering bug
20:37 kungfuftr quirksmode++
20:39 kungfuftr 2 mins
20:40 gaal ooh, we have a workable new smoke system?
20:40 gaal shiny shiny, shiny new smoke system
20:40 gaal new smoke system, in the dark
20:41 nothingmuch not really
20:41 nothingmuch oh my gawwwwed
20:41 nothingmuch layout completely screwey
20:41 gaal with red and green, tooltips that do delight 'er
20:41 nothingmuch safari is annoying
20:41 gaal come on baby, smoke for me!
20:41 nothingmuch kungfuftr: i think that it's too early for XML
20:42 stevan gaal++ # for the VU ref
20:42 kungfuftr nothingmuch: yeah, most places don't support it...
20:42 kungfuftr i think safari's too early for XML
20:42 kungfuftr =0)
20:42 nothingmuch too bad
20:42 nothingmuch well, stevan is planning on making an XML backend anyway
20:42 nothingmuch i think
20:42 nothingmuch or is it just SAX?
20:43 kungfuftr nothingmuch: why safari?
20:43 stevan nothingmuch: yup,... but just the backend Test::Harness stuff
20:43 nothingmuch why do i use safari?
20:43 kungfuftr yar... understand mac... but why not something gecko based?
20:43 nothingmuch stevan: what kungfuftr did (http://pasta.woobling.org/~kungfuftr/Test​-TAP-Visualize-HTMLMatrix/example.xhtml) was try to get it to both be displayable and minable at the same time
20:43 nothingmuch my puter is hella slow
20:43 nothingmuch 400mhz
20:43 nothingmuch firefox is much less responsive than safari
20:44 kungfuftr never found that, and i use both
20:44 stevan minable?
20:44 nothingmuch much less stupidity... it works so well in hebrew!
20:44 nothingmuch stevan: it's XML that makes sense
20:44 gaal VU ref is even better than VUndef, i think.
20:44 kungfuftr stevan: have a look at the source code of that xhtml page
20:45 * gaal needs water
20:45 stevan kungfuftr: very nice
20:45 stevan works for me in Safari
20:45 nothingmuch stevan: do the percentages on the right side have color?
20:45 stevan no
20:45 jabbot pugs - 1981 - Updates, clarifications, and expansions
20:45 nothingmuch i think we should stick with plain old HTML
20:46 nothingmuch (xhtml ;-)
20:46 nothingmuch so it's not just my box
20:46 nothingmuch beh
20:46 stevan I tend to agree with nothingmuch  on this
20:46 * kungfuftr will play tomorrow on the mac at work
20:46 stevan at least for now
20:46 nothingmuch but keep the changes somewhere
20:46 gcom has quit IRC ("ciao")
20:46 nothingmuch kungfuftr: can you commit the change?
20:46 stevan *cough* plugins *cough*
20:46 nothingmuch so that i can backport?
20:46 nothingmuch stevan: patches welcome ;-)
20:46 stevan some organizations may want this
20:46 nothingmuch i want to do basic releng today
20:46 stevan nothingmuch: don't make me do it!!!! I'm just crazy enough!!!!
20:47 kungfuftr nothingmuch: commit, how?
20:47 nothingmuch kungfuftr: darcs whatsnew
20:47 gaal heh, nothingmuch, you should port Object::Meta::plugin to perl6 :)
20:47 nothingmuch darcs record
20:47 nothingmuch gaal: i think there will be no need
20:47 stevan gaal: would he need too?
20:47 nothingmuch for a while at least
20:47 stevan $object.meta.* should do enough I would think
20:47 nothingmuch roles (per object) do most of what it does
20:47 nothingmuch stevan: you *so* don't want to know what Object::Meta::Plugin does
20:47 nothingmuch as for plugging in templates:
20:48 stevan gaal: if nothingmuch sets up that bit torrent server he promised too (poke poke) then I got some nice VU stuff to share
20:48 nothingmuch i don't want to do it yet because the petal <-> Test::TAP::Model bridge is very thin at the moment
20:48 nothingmuch i'll do that now
20:49 gaal stevan: in Dichotomy Deset Island Land, would you bring John Cale or Lou Reed with you?
20:49 gaal (well, their ALBUMS I mean. :)
20:49 stevan Lou Reed
20:49 gaal was it a hard choice?
20:49 stevan but thats because I really love the "New York" Album
20:50 stevan not really.
20:50 stevan gaal: and you?
20:50 nothingmuch kungfuftr: so what's next?
20:50 gaal I'd pick John Cale, but I'll miss Berlin. And Transformer. And Magic and Loss. :/
20:50 stevan Transformer is a great album
20:50 gaal yes.
20:51 gaal I don't know the New York one!
20:51 stevan gaal: even more of a reason for nothingmuch to get the server up
20:51 gaal hehheh
20:51 nothingmuch one minute please, i'm reading up on how
20:51 stevan it came out in the early 90s,.. when Lou was in his "Rock and Roll should be pure" phase
20:51 gaal i don't think I'll be listening to a lot of music soon though :(
20:52 gaal you mean purely beer?
20:52 nothingmuch gaal: want to borrow my ipod?
20:52 stevan gaal: they dont allow music in the big house
20:52 nothingmuch it might get stolen
20:52 nothingmuch but then again, i don't use it much anymore
20:52 stevan 2 guitars, bass and drums,.. thats all
20:52 nothingmuch haven't commuted by bus in a long while
20:52 stevan gaal: soap on a rope,... get some
20:52 gaal ?
20:53 stevan it's an american jail thing
20:53 stevan dont drop the soap in the showers
20:53 * gaal thinks he doesn't wanna know :)
20:53 stevan gaal: you dont :)
20:53 stevan gaal++ # again for standing up for what you believe in
20:54 gaal when i lived in the uk there was this commercial, eh, crap i forgot who it was with, some singer
20:54 stevan I know if they did that in the States,.. I would have been a canadian long ago
20:54 gaal he gets into trouble (it's a *series* of commercials) and in one of them he ends up in jail
20:55 gaal there's a bit with the soap there too, though ha-ha-understated.
20:55 kungfuftr nothingmuch: ah ha... i know a fix
20:55 gaal nm: an ipod will last about thirty seconds there. but thanks :)
20:56 stevan gaal: you could trade it for protection from the big guys
20:56 gaal s/will/would
20:56 cognominal has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
20:56 stevan or cigarettes
20:56 gaal it's not that kind of prison
20:56 gaal really won't be that bad. won't be fun, of course
20:56 stevan gaal: can you bring books?
20:57 nothingmuch pasta.woobling.org:7080
20:57 cognominal has joined #perl6
20:57 gaal yes. i killed a tree the other day printing p6b
20:57 stevan ah yeah you said that
20:58 gaal plus i have: david lodge, richard russo, mikhail bulgakov, uh the guy who wrote fight club, and some others.
20:59 gaal nm, is any of the new matrix stuff p6? i haven't had time to look at it
20:59 crysflame p6b?
21:00 nothingmuch gaal: no
21:00 nothingmuch just your code in OOP
21:00 nothingmuch and kungfuftr is working on the XH?TML output
21:00 gaal "my" code, hah. that's mostly petdance's code, etc.
21:00 nothingmuch nevermind
21:00 nothingmuch =D
21:01 gaal are we not doing it in p6 because pugs isn't there yet, or because we want this to be used in p5land?
21:01 gaal (is there open| in pugs?)
21:02 nothingmuch both, methinks
21:05 gaal how's the upgrade path for tests of existing p5 moduels to p5? should we bother porting Test::*? From a clean slate POV probably it'd be best if we worked on a very strong single Test.pm, but i'm not sure how happy existing p5 authors would be when their hard work doesn't work any more
21:05 gaal i mean, porting your moduel == fun
21:05 gaal porting tests == less so, probably
21:06 nothingmuch no clue
21:06 gaal or at least, less necessarily
21:06 nothingmuch i think i agree on strong single Test.pm
21:06 nothingmuch but not 100%
21:06 nothingmuch sometimes there are many ways to do one things
21:06 nothingmuch is_deeply should be gone
21:06 gaal well i sure don't want 15 separate modules - at least, not 15 separate distribs
21:07 nothingmuch Test::Deep is the way for deep
21:07 nothingmuch and not every one needs it
21:07 nothingmuch Test::Exception should be core
21:07 nothingmuch Test::NoWarnings is odd
21:07 nothingmuch the Test::Distribution family is weird
21:07 nothingmuch it's functionality should be in Test::Exceptions
21:07 nothingmuch i think it should be STD
21:07 nothingmuch but rethought, interface wise
21:07 gaal sure, refactoring++
21:07 stevan I agree,.. Test::Exceptions should go into Test.pm when we have CATCH
21:07 nothingmuch Test::LongString is silly
21:07 stevan i think chromatic was going to start on the Test::Builder port
21:08 nothingmuch Test::Simple shouldn't exist
21:08 stevan I love Test::Deep
21:08 nothingmuch Test::MockObject should stay (but get my patch ;-)
21:08 gaal but i don't like how you have to install five modules just to test this nice thing you just d/led from cpan
21:08 kungfuftr nothingmuch: try now
21:08 nothingmuch Test::Unit should be one and only
21:08 nothingmuch woot!
21:08 stevan Test::Simple would have been Test.pm if the name wasnt alreayd there
21:09 kungfuftr nothingmuch: they all working?
21:09 nothingmuch it looks odd though
21:09 nothingmuch but we do have color
21:09 bradb has quit IRC ("Leaving")
21:09 kungfuftr yeah, needs a little tweaking
21:09 nothingmuch italic
21:09 nothingmuch and boxed
21:09 nothingmuch twice
21:09 nothingmuch has left
21:09 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
21:09 gaal any need to separate test::more and test::simple any, er, more?
21:09 nothingmuch Test::Plan is nice
21:09 gaal maybe test:simple can be a facade
21:09 nothingmuch Test::More is Test
21:10 nothingmuch Test::Simple is a subset
21:10 gaal yes
21:10 nothingmuch Test::Plan should be in Test too
21:10 gaal so expose it just as a facade
21:10 gaal but don't dupe code
21:10 gaal what's test plan do, remind me?
21:10 nothingmuch it's got an idiotic name
21:10 Corion changes topic to: pugscode.org <<Overview Journal Logs>> | r1773/winxp: 587/4256 smoke/win2k (occasional): http://xrl.us/fqum (25/4321 , r1980) | pugs.kwiki.org
21:10 nothingmuch but basically it's a quick way to do the
21:10 gaal ah ah skip all
21:10 gaal yes i remember
21:11 nothingmuch BEGIN { eval { require Module::I::Need }; $@? plan skip_all : plan tests => 5 }
21:11 nothingmuch i would have called it Test::Predicates or something
21:11 nothingmuch but it should be core anyway
21:11 gaal yeah. skip needs to be made stronger, sure
21:11 gaal exactly
21:11 nothingmuch Test::Block also helps skipping
21:11 nothingmuch by telling in advance how many blocks are per block
21:11 nothingmuch and then you say 'skip rest' and it gets the number right
21:12 nothingmuch Test::strict should be Test::Distribution
21:12 nothingmuch Test::Output should be in Test
21:12 gaal i'm still not 100% convinced i like having to specify a plan number automatically
21:12 Corion Somebody should port "release" / Module::Release!
21:12 gaal err
21:12 kungfuftr nothingmuch: okay, should look better now
21:12 gaal manually
21:12 kungfuftr stevan: look okay for you?
21:13 nothingmuch but it should overrid eonly when it's in effect
21:13 Corion Specifying a plan number is important, especially as long as Pugs / Perl can silently quit your test.
21:13 gaal yes, just i hate counting
21:13 gaal i wish the computer would do it for me
21:13 nothingmuch reload http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/badkhtml.jpg
21:13 nothingmuch gaal: predeclaring is useful
21:13 gaal i think i had this discussion before, nm was it with you?
21:13 nothingmuch Test::Block just makes you do less arithmetic
21:13 nothingmuch no, not with me
21:14 nothingmuch but plans are optional, so it doesn't matter
21:14 nothingmuch this is for skipping
21:14 gaal like how i saw someone being clever, and declaring all his tests as closures and pushing them in an array
21:14 nothingmuch *cough*
21:14 gaal planning by @tests
21:14 gaal then running them one by one
21:14 gaal well look on the bright side
21:14 nothingmuch i did that twidce
21:14 nothingmuch MPEG::Audio::Frame did calc of plan
21:14 nothingmuch but not with closures
21:15 gaal if you get a parse error, it will die before you planned
21:15 nothingmuch and Object::Meta::Plugin did not use Test::Builder at all
21:15 gaal so the harness knows
21:16 cwest has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
21:16 gaal the editor should perhaps have an "update plan" feature, if we don't go the clever route.
21:17 gaal run the test, extract "looks like you only ran 2 tests out of 42" data, etc.
21:17 gaal that's probably doable in perltest.vim
21:20 kungfuftr nothingmuch: now?
21:20 nothingmuch almost
21:21 nothingmuch now the border is OK
21:21 nothingmuch but there is a light grey
21:21 nothingmuch the green is only as high as the text
21:21 kungfuftr bah...
21:21 nothingmuch i think this is too workaroundish
21:21 nothingmuch you're working hard
21:21 nothingmuch and without much  benefit
21:21 kungfuftr not hugely, i do this sorta stuff for kicks
21:21 ingy fyi YAML is very streamable
21:22 ingy YAML.pm does not currently have a streamable interface
21:22 ingy YAML and YAML.pm are very different things :)
21:22 cwest has joined #perl6
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21:27 kungfuftr nothingmuch: right... now?
21:28 nothingmuch between the test case lists
21:28 nothingmuch text is not vertical aligned, but all else is OK
21:28 nothingmuch oh wait
21:28 nothingmuch we have some odd 1px white boundries
21:28 nothingmuch but only after the second row
21:28 nothingmuch ..ML--
21:28 kungfuftr bah... ffs safari sucks
21:28 nothingmuch wait, no, CAML not mm
21:28 nothingmuch --
21:28 nothingmuch HTML--
21:28 wilx has joined #perl6
21:28 nothingmuch and ancestors, and derivs too
21:30 nothingmuch woot, YAPC::NA will be on my birthday
21:30 nothingmuch i think i'll try for a talk, maybe
21:31 nothingmuch vertical align ok
21:31 nothingmuch but we're back with whites
21:31 nothingmuch on top and bottom of percent cell
21:32 nothingmuch thin borders gone
21:32 nothingmuch mldonkey is misbehaving
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21:40 cognominal ouch
21:41 cognominal pugs> my $b = my $a = 1
21:41 cognominal *** Error: No compatible subroutine found: &my
21:41 nothingmuch hah
21:41 cognominal pugs> my $a = 1
21:41 cognominal undef
21:41 cognominal my should be a function like in perl5?
21:41 bradb has joined #perl6
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21:45 kungfuftr nothingmuch: moo
21:45 nothingmuch is?
21:45 nothingmuch si?
21:46 kungfuftr that any better?
21:46 nothingmuch nope, the vertical-align is back
21:46 nothingmuch but the white lines are gone
21:47 kungfuftr vertical-align the only issue?
21:47 nothingmuch yep
21:47 kungfuftr yay
21:49 nothingmuch no wait, i didn't notice
21:49 nothingmuch but there's a margin between the cells
21:49 nothingmuch about 3px
21:50 nothingmuch http://clickxchange.com/graphi​cs_smart/13109511113062312.gif
21:50 nothingmuch what *wont* they advertise these days?
21:50 nothingmuch are you depressed? click here, and we'll show you a 5 step guide towards feeling better
21:54 Corion has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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22:01 nothingmuch http://pasta:6969/
22:01 nothingmuch gaal: ping
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22:06 nothingmuch damnit!
22:11 Limbic_Region Janet - I love you
22:12 Limbic_Region what - no RHPS fans
22:12 * Limbic_Region does the Time Warp by himself
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22:19 kungfuftr nothingmuch: et voila
22:19 kungfuftr if that don't work feck it
22:19 nothingmuch ack
22:19 nothingmuch borders screwed up
22:19 nothingmuch cells small
22:20 nothingmuch border-spacing between test cases is 0
22:20 nothingmuch vertical align of percent cell is wrong
22:20 nothingmuch safari--
22:20 nothingmuch kungfuftr++
22:22 kungfuftr bah, bugger it... would require a restructure of the dom
22:22 nothingmuch i think this is too much
22:22 nothingmuch the old mantra
22:22 nothingmuch if it ain't broke don't fix it
22:22 nothingmuch i think it applies here
22:23 kungfuftr it's not that something's not broke, it something that would have provided two interfaces
22:23 kungfuftr there's always xslt i suppose... *blink*
22:23 nothingmuch nonononono!
22:23 nothingmuch you can make Test::TAP::Visualize::XSLT if you want
22:23 nothingmuch i'm not touching that with a 10" swede
22:24 kungfuftr is there a TAP xml schema?
22:24 nothingmuch not that I know of
22:25 kungfuftr nothingmuch: oh yeah, you should also try to capture time taken for test
22:25 nothingmuch kungfuftr: test case?
22:26 kungfuftr nothingmuch: moo?
22:27 nothingmuch what do you want stamped?
22:27 nothingmuch it can all be
22:28 kungfuftr each sub test
22:28 kungfuftr and tesfile i suppose
22:28 kungfuftr bugger, all of it i suppose
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22:34 nothingmuch subtest timing is a simple case of adding the data in the _handle_test stuff
22:34 nothingmuch btw, can you port your css to the original HTML?
22:34 nothingmuch or should i do that?
22:34 nothingmuch it's much prettier than mine
22:35 nothingmuch (when it works ;-)
22:45 mkirank has joined #perl6
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22:53 Ovid Anyone know if "temp $var" is working yet in Pugs?  I assume it's not.
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23:35 jabbot pugs - 1982 - Could not make the method calls work in
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