Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-04-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:03 mugwump Junctions do seem to be an arse to deal with, in terms of writing visitor patterns like serialising or stringifying
00:03 mugwump It's the return of (if (ref $foo eq "ARRAY") { ... } elsif (ref $foo eq ...
00:05 machack666 you almnost have to store the method bny which they were created
00:06 machack666 I i'm getting sporatic readline bugs
00:06 machack666 visual artifacts, doubled letters (of which there is only one)
00:06 crysflame perhaps someone put a junction in your prompt
00:07 * machack666 snorts
00:08 machack666 also got two segmentation faults and several illegal instruction crashes that shot me out of pugs
00:08 machack666 all when dealing with junctions
00:17 mugwump ouch
00:17 mugwump any reproducible ones?
00:18 machack666 nothing consistent
00:18 Forth has joined #perl6
00:18 machack666 a lot when I was dealing with the junction comparisons
00:18 machack666 ok checked in an associativity test
00:21 jabbot pugs - 2105 - Make $<delim> not interpolate in quoting
00:21 jabbot pugs - 2106 - Tests for the associativity of junctions
00:21 machack666 what does the double-U mean in svn update?
00:22 machack666 (as a status)
00:23 machack666 never mind: `svn help status`
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01:21 jabbot pugs - 2107 - Fixed wrong plan count for t/builtins/ha
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01:40 obra where's the paper on implementing make in ocaml?
01:48 obra http://www.venge.net/graydon/talks/mkc/html/
02:00 mugwump So, going to implement a make in haskell, obra?  :)
02:03 crysflame http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~pls/thesis-topics/funmake.html
02:03 crysflame In this project you will design a clean, simple, portable replacement for `make', as a Haskell EDSL.
02:04 mugwump maybe I should go move to NSW and complete that for a masters
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02:14 obra mugwump: no. a firend wanted it.
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02:21 jabbot pugs - 2108 - updated the ChangeLog with all of tadays
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03:43 lucs Hola bradb
03:53 bradb hey lucs
03:53 bradb so, i'll be a bit late tomorrow evening. hitting up the plateau with my real estate agent.
03:57 lucs Good luck with that.
03:57 lucs I'm beat.
03:57 * lucs & # ZZ
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05:11 jabbot pugs - 2109 - quote generator: add a few phrases
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06:11 jabbot pugs - 2111 - quote generator: put a cap on annoying p
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06:17 nothingmuch morning
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06:42 mj morning
06:43 nothingmuch morning, mj
06:43 castaway morning
06:51 jabbot pugs - 2112 - quote generator: a little more fiddling
06:51 jabbot pugs - 2113 - delete obs file
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09:21 jabbot pugs - 2114 - * restore `%h<str> = want()` to impose s
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09:29 Jonathan_ The Win32 daily builds are back for good. http://www.jwcs.net/~jonathan/perl6/ Sorry for the gap in putting them out.
09:31 jabbot pugs - 2115 - * oops, repair readline()
09:39 kungfuftr bah!
09:40 kungfuftr autrijus: don't suppose you know of a tool for converting PDF to text that'll cope with east asian languages?
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10:10 nothingmuch hola
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11:07 nothingmuch Jonathan_: want to arrange for smoke testing too?
11:08 nothingmuch akin to: http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status/
11:08 nothingmuch Corion only puts them out once in a while, i think
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11:12 * shapr waves the lambdacamel pom-poms
11:12 nothingmuch hola shapr
11:13 shapr y0 wassup?
11:13 nothingmuch not much
11:13 theorbtwo Allo, shapr.
11:13 theorbtwo And all, since I haven't said anything today.
11:13 nothingmuch tests  covered  executable  %
11:13 nothingmuch 26     12071    56404       21
11:13 shapr greetingz Mistah Palantir.
11:13 nothingmuch 1      38462    171598      22
11:13 nothingmuch beh
11:13 * theorbtwo 's adventures in macland are very much not working.
11:13 nothingmuch tests being 1 on windows is nonsensicle, it's all the tests
11:14 nothingmuch the rest is line counts
11:14 theorbtwo What's that from, nothingmuch?
11:14 nothingmuch how the fsck are there 3x as many executable lines of code?
11:14 nothingmuch i hate complilers! i hate c++!
11:14 nothingmuch our project, and code coverage with a few tests
11:14 nothingmuch first line is linux (g++, gcov)
11:14 nothingmuch second line is window
11:14 nothingmuch s
11:14 nothingmuch dunno which tools
11:15 shapr obra: there's at least one nifty make tool in Haskell. Possibly up to three.
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11:16 Jonathan_ nothingmuch: Sure, got details of how I can set that up?
11:16 nothingmuch yup
11:16 nothingmuch there are some scripts in util
11:16 Jonathan_ Also, is anyone seeing the makefile problem I posted on the mailing list yesterday?
11:16 Jonathan_ Ah, OK.
11:16 nothingmuch yaml_harness runs the test suite, and creates tests.yml
11:17 nothingmuch then testgraph.pl reads that yaml (very slow, you can hack it to storable if that bothers you)
11:17 shapr Why not a 'make smoke' command that sticks all the steps together?
11:17 nothingmuch and uses Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix to generate an HTML
11:17 nothingmuch uh
11:17 nothingmuch for starters everyone has a slightly different webserver setup
11:17 nothingmuch i don't know really
11:18 nothingmuch then you run catalog_tests.pl to create backlinked tests and docs
11:18 nothingmuch and then you shove all that on a webserver somewhere
11:18 nothingmuch with the css
11:18 shapr I'd like to have everything but shove in a single command.
11:18 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status
11:18 nothingmuch i have a shell script
11:18 nothingmuch there's run_smoke.pl
11:18 nothingmuch which i haven't gotten along with yet
11:18 nothingmuch and since mine worked for me i keep using it
11:19 Jonathan_ OK, I'll see if I have time to get that set up later on today.
11:19 nothingmuch perlbot nopaste
11:19 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
11:19 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 212.143.92.226 pasted "test_report.sh" (39 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/9482
11:21 Jonathan_ Thanks. I may be able to get smoke tests on a Linux box going too.
11:21 nothingmuch goody
11:21 * shapr cheers
11:22 Jonathan_ And this time I promise not to run off to Spain and leave it all broken, like I did with my Win32 Pugs build. :)
11:22 nothingmuch =)
11:23 Jonathan_ Shouldn't be much risk of that, it's back to university on Saturday.
11:23 Jonathan_ Ugh...exam term.
11:23 theorbtwo Grrr.  I keep writing #elsif instead of #else for some stupid reason.
11:32 chady is now known as [s]AINT
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11:39 mj WinXP, s/todo_//, r2115 - 1000/4459 subtests failed, 77.57% okay. 54 subtests skipped.
11:39 * theorbtwo pings nothingmuch.
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11:55 * nothingmuch chimes
11:55 * castaway wonders if other people chiime differently, and whether pinging can play tunes..
11:56 * shapr pings nothingmuch, castaway, and theorbtwo in that order
11:57 shapr It's like a chrismas bells concert!
11:57 nothingmuch ding!
11:57 theorbtwo My mac still isn't playing nice, after getting Panther CDs.
11:58 castaway dong!
11:58 nothingmuch is it cursing at you?
11:58 theorbtwo WooOOOooong.
11:58 castaway hmm, of course the lag makes the tune come out all wrong :)
11:58 * nothingmuch rings, reverbing theorbtwo's pong
11:58 * shapr grins
11:58 nothingmuch wmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
11:59 theorbtwo It doesn't seem to be doing anything in purticular, just sitting at the "preboot" screen mostly.
11:59 nothingmuch can you boot debian?
11:59 nothingmuch if you can get dd on the ramdisk, then you can fdisk the disk
12:00 nothingmuch put a cd sized partition at the end, and an HFS one elsewhere
12:00 nothingmuch and then eject the debian CD
12:00 nothingmuch put in panther #1
12:00 nothingmuch dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/dev/hda2
12:00 castaway beige doesnt boot from anything but an apple-cd apparently
12:00 nothingmuch or actually 3 on macs
12:00 nothingmuch oi
12:00 nothingmuch you need bootx?
12:00 nothingmuch i could mail you an OS9 CD
12:00 castaway (so sayeth the linuc-ppc channel)
12:01 theorbtwo #debianppc, actually.
12:01 nothingmuch if i can find one
12:01 shapr I can probably scrape up a copy of System 7 around here somewhere.
12:01 * nothingmuch wishes castorbway would have bought an imac or something
12:01 theorbtwo We tried.
12:01 nothingmuch system 7.5.3 can be downloaded free, IIRC
12:01 nothingmuch it is also bootx capable
12:01 castaway on floppy images, but we have no floppy drive ,)
12:01 theorbtwo Right, but only on floppy, which won't help me without a floppy drive.
12:01 arcady_ yeah, installing linux on the beige macs is a real pain
12:02 arcady_ and booting it too
12:02 castaway arcady_: actually we want osx on it
12:02 nothingmuch arcady_: ever tried the nubus macs? yuck!
12:02 arcady_ panther won't work
12:02 theorbtwo Right, have Jaguar.
12:02 castaway it should with XFactoWhatsit
12:02 nothingmuch what does xpostdefacto do, btw?
12:02 theorbtwo Sorry, meant Jaguar when I said Panther above.
12:02 arcady_ ah
12:02 nothingmuch does it modify the binaries?
12:02 theorbtwo It seems to be mostly a set of kernel extensions.
12:03 arcady_ why do you want OS X on it?
12:03 nothingmuch or does it fudge the puter so it thinks it's a newworld?
12:03 castaway to run SEE
12:03 arcady_ yeah, basically it installs a few kexts
12:03 arcady_ you used to have to do it yourself
12:03 arcady_ it just does it for you nicely, I think
12:03 nothingmuch theorbtwo: another path could be trying to install darwin itself
12:03 nothingmuch and bootstrap OSX from an installation of that
12:04 theorbtwo That's an idea.
12:04 nothingmuch or netbsd
12:04 arcady_ darwin probably won't work
12:04 theorbtwo I was wondering also if I can put the hdd in one of my pc boxes, and copy what I need onto there.
12:04 castaway umm.. ebay: mac floppy drive new: buy now 5 euro
12:04 nothingmuch theorbtwo: sure
12:04 nothingmuch if it's ide, which at that era i'm willing to bet it is
12:04 castaway (assuming thats the right sort of drive)
12:04 castaway it has IDE
12:05 nothingmuch so it's no problem
12:05 nothingmuch but you should have a linux with support for macos style partition tables
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12:05 arcady_ oh, and OS X doesn't support internal floppies... or didn't anyway
12:05 arcady_ since no mac has one
12:06 castaway eh?
12:06 theorbtwo Hmm?  There's a connector for one.  Even came with a cable.
12:06 castaway what do they have then?
12:06 nothingmuch and from there bootx
12:06 nothingmuch arcady_: but that could be used to get 7.5.3
12:06 arcady_ those macs that have one
12:06 arcady_ they don't exist anymore
12:06 nothingmuch to get dd
12:06 nothingmuch or whatever tools
12:06 castaway http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;category=12828&amp;item=5766697721&amp;rd=1&amp;ssPageName=WDVW (anyway)
12:06 nothingmuch or at least run xpostdefacto
12:06 theorbtwo OpenDarwin 7.2.1 does not support the g3 beige.
12:07 nothingmuch darwin 7 == osx 10.3
12:07 arcady_ apple doesn't include drivers for apple hardware in darwin
12:07 nothingmuch darwin 6 == osx 10.2
12:07 nothingmuch etc
12:07 castaway 7.5.3 does tho, arcady_
12:07 nothingmuch arcady_: but rudimentary support should be possible, no?
12:07 nothingmuch i mean, if they don't have graphics accel or networking, it doesn't really matter, right?
12:07 arcady_ potential problem with 7.5.3 though, is that it doesn't support HFS+
12:08 arcady_ nothingmuch, I don't think they have support for ADB either
12:08 nothingmuch oh my
12:08 arcady_ you could netboot it headless, and that's about it, I think
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12:08 nothingmuch yuck kyuck yuck
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12:08 castaway eep
12:08 arcady_ else the linux folks would have taken the drivers long ago
12:09 theorbtwo http://www.opendarwin.org/downloads/6.6.2/INSTALL.ppc.txt says that opendarwin/ppc 6.6.2 will insall and boot on all PowerPC-based Macintoshes supported by Mac OS X 10.2.6.
12:10 theorbtwo Which AFAIK should include this one.
12:10 nothingmuch if the osx boot cd won't work, i doubt opendarwin would either
12:10 * castaway wonders if install/boot inclues "run" :)
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12:10 arcady_ by the way, have you tried Open Firmware?
12:10 * theorbtwo sighs.
12:10 castaway the boot cd may just be broke
12:11 theorbtwo Yes.  I still get the preboot screen.
12:11 theorbtwo Which seems quite odd.
12:11 castaway yes, arcady_ .. people are claiming that beige's don't boot from anything but an apple-cd
12:12 theorbtwo Hold down alt-apple-o-f while booting, right?
12:12 theorbtwo ...and that should work independent of any sort of boot media, even on oldworld macs, yes?
12:13 arcady_ yes
12:13 arcady_ BUT
12:13 arcady_ oldworld macs will show the OF screen on the default device
12:13 arcady_ which, for oldworld, is the serial port
12:13 nothingmuch oi
12:13 arcady_ doesn't hurt to try anyway
12:14 * nothingmuch is soooo glad that his booting-funny-OSs-on macs started with an ibook
12:14 nothingmuch and then progressed into history
12:14 nothingmuch and not the other way around
12:14 shapr yay! iRiver > Sony
12:14 nothingmuch ?
12:15 shapr I bought a Sony 1GB Network Walkman, it refused to work with out Windows. iRiver 1GB costs less, has more features, works fine with Linux.
12:16 arcady_ but the sony one looks cooler, or something
12:16 shapr Sony has lotsa copy protection, digital rights management, etc
12:16 arcady_ and sort of almost supports mp3!
12:16 castaway 20GB++
12:16 shapr Truly, the Sony does look cooler. Too bad you can't initialize the Sony without a copy of windows.
12:16 shapr The iRiver worked out of the box.
12:17 kungfuftr nothingmuch: that HTML seems to output very oddly (lots of random horizontal lines)
12:17 nothingmuch kungfuftr: where?
12:17 nothingmuch between table rows?
12:17 theorbtwo Is the serial port the bottom one or the top one?
12:18 kungfuftr nothingmuch: yar
12:18 nothingmuch xshot?
12:18 kungfuftr *blink* wtf... i switch back to em and they're gone... bloody odd
12:18 nothingmuch theorbtwo: either, but i think the one marked with a telephone is the first one
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12:18 nothingmuch <em>?
12:18 theorbtwo I have no case, and thus no markings.
12:18 nothingmuch for the links?
12:18 nothingmuch oh,
12:18 nothingmuch uh, i think the top might work
12:19 nothingmuch and if not the top then probably the bottom
12:19 * castaway laughs
12:19 nothingmuch do you have a mac serial to rs232 converter?
12:19 theorbtwo I think so.
12:19 kungfuftr nothingmuch: thought about marking todo tests with opacity? (yes, it's possible on all browsers)
12:19 nothingmuch conceptually how will that work?
12:19 nothingmuch i don't mind, i just don't know how
12:20 nothingmuch but IMHO todo tests should be darker, like they are
12:20 nothingmuch because everyone already knows what it means
12:20 theorbtwo Eh?  TODO tests are /lighter/.
12:21 nothingmuch there's a bug right now
12:21 nothingmuch they are yellow
12:21 nothingmuch but in my darcs repo they are dark green like they used to
12:21 nothingmuch and unexpectedly succeeded todo tests are yellow
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12:22 kungfuftr todo = light red... todo unexectedly pass... light green?
12:22 nothingmuch red implies failure, IMHO
12:22 nothingmuch todo+fail is OK
12:22 nothingmuch that's expected
12:23 nothingmuch red catches the eye
12:23 kungfuftr well yeah, but it's still a failure overall
12:23 nothingmuch but then we'll be swamped in failures which aren't real
12:23 castaway orange! no, blue!
12:23 nothingmuch and green/red mixed together looks like poop, not green or red
12:24 kungfuftr hhhmmm... orange is good
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12:24 kungfuftr as acme would agree
12:24 * nothingmuch disagrees more
12:24 * q[acme] agrees with orange
12:24 kungfuftr =0)
12:24 nothingmuch when i look at test results i would normally look for things in the following order:
12:24 nothingmuch how many tests failed/passed etc (bottomline)
12:25 nothingmuch if i see fail, scroll up/down looking for red things
12:25 nothingmuch i want nothing else to stand out in this sweep
12:25 nothingmuch and i don't want to get confused
12:25 nothingmuch then i can go and look for a test to untodo, or a feature to implement
12:26 kungfuftr nothingmuch: ever heard of semiotics?
12:26 castaway so why are they in there at all? :)
12:26 shapr What about red for failed test, yellow for fatal, and green for passing? Maybe unexpected successes can be blue?
12:26 nothingmuch what's so bad about the current scheme?
12:27 shapr The dark green for fatal confuses me, green means success to my unit test training.
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12:27 kungfuftr nothingmuch: different colors mean different things to different cultures
12:27 kungfuftr semiotics++
12:27 shapr The dark green fatal color is the only one that really gets in my way.
12:27 theorbtwo Huh?  Dark green doesn't mean fatal.
12:27 nothingmuch shapr: green *is* success
12:27 nothingmuch kungfuftr: everywhere but PRC, if i recall correctly green is YES and red is NO
12:28 theorbtwo Green is "what we expected to happen did".
12:28 castaway (just give them classes, and let whomever has problems, customize in the CSS.. ,)
12:28 shapr yeah, good idea
12:28 theorbtwo Dark green is "expected failure".
12:28 nothingmuch basically the colors are a measure of how much the implementation and tests are in synch
12:28 nothingmuch sync
12:28 nothingmuch if the implementation moves a little
12:28 nothingmuch creating bugs, or fixing things
12:28 theorbtwo We do, castaway, except in the right hand column.
12:28 nothingmuch then you notice things
12:28 castaway well why are there complaints then?
12:29 nothingmuch because you see red and yellow popping up
12:29 * nothingmuch doesn't know
12:29 castaway (of course, this makes for nice confusion when comparing outputs :)
12:29 shapr Ok, never mind. I like what I just saw on http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
12:29 nothingmuch shapr: that has a buggy Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix
12:29 kungfuftr castaway: todo fail is green, which seems like this test is ok... no need to worry about implementing it to actually pass
12:29 nothingmuch compare with http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status
12:29 nothingmuch kungfuftr: the test is ok, it's not a bug
12:30 nothingmuch it's the lowest priority action after: fix bugs, untodo tests
12:30 theorbtwo OK, I now have an open firmware prompt on the screen of my apple.
12:30 castaway kungfuftr: then change your css, and stop bothering people :)
12:30 nothingmuch theorbtwo: yay!
12:30 castaway wow!
12:30 kungfuftr castaway: =0P
12:30 castaway how did you do that?
12:30 nothingmuch t/operators/quoting.t is an interesting example
12:30 nothingmuch roie_m's fixes changed things
12:31 nothingmuch for the better, and for the worse
12:31 nothingmuch (i think it was him)
12:31 nothingmuch the changes caused two tests to fail
12:31 nothingmuch and 6 tests to start becomming ok
12:31 nothingmuch the rest of the green stuff is like it was before
12:31 shapr nothingmuch: Ah, I don't like the dark green there. I don't know what it should mean. But I'll take castaway's suggestion.
12:31 nothingmuch find a better meaning for it
12:31 nothingmuch to me it's like a diff
12:31 nothingmuch where dark green needs work
12:31 nothingmuch but you better take care of red and yellow first
12:32 nothingmuch btw, i don't know how to represent tests with no outpput
12:32 kungfuftr black?
12:32 nothingmuch Test::Harness thinks they are errors
12:32 nothingmuch what meaning do you want to give to those blocks?
12:32 nothingmuch black? why?
12:33 kungfuftr nothingness... lack of something
12:33 nothingmuch think of the tests as a sort of system where you mark points of sanity in the implementation
12:33 nothingmuch testing lets you change code with confidence
12:33 nothingmuch the stable situation is one where you start from
12:34 nothingmuch everything is as expected
12:34 nothingmuch some things are not yet ready
12:34 nothingmuch you change xyz to make some dark green tests become green
12:34 kungfuftr reminds me... gotta set up a tindering system soon
12:34 nothingmuch you can see which ones started working when they turn yellow
12:34 nothingmuch and which ones break when they turn red
12:34 nothingmuch if your changes make only yellows, then you can just go to the test
12:34 nothingmuch s
12:34 nothingmuch and say "ok, this is the new stable situation, you are no longer todo"
12:35 nothingmuch you confirm them
12:35 nothingmuch todo tests that are failing should not attract attention, because they are normal
12:35 nothingmuch and because we have so many of them
12:35 * kungfuftr ran TAP::Matrix stuff with PDF output, wasn't bad
12:35 nothingmuch html to pdf?
12:35 kungfuftr nope... PDF::API2
12:36 nothingmuch ah, instead of Petal?
12:36 kungfuftr yar
12:36 nothingmuch could you put that up on CPAN?
12:36 nothingmuch kungfuftr++
12:36 kungfuftr nope, fraid not
12:36 nothingmuch licensing issues?
12:36 kungfuftr commercial... =0(
12:36 nothingmuch pdf2::api, or your visualizer?
12:36 kungfuftr me own visualizer thingy
12:37 nothingmuch oh well
12:37 * kungfuftr will have a look at doing it at home though
12:37 nothingmuch /me is glad it's being useful though
12:37 kungfuftr and it got ported to another framework too... so don't even have the code no more
12:38 nothingmuch you lost me,
12:38 kungfuftr we have our own harness framework... i did it in Test::TAP initially as a test to see if it was possible
12:38 nothingmuch ah
12:39 kungfuftr management like colorful PDFs
12:39 kungfuftr q[acme]: defenitely nutty
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12:49 stevan morning all
12:50 stevan theorbtwo: ping!
12:50 nothingmuch hola stevan
12:50 nothingmuch i'm home in 40 mins
12:50 nothingmuch i'd like to know what's new
12:50 nothingmuch cool?
12:50 stevan nothingmuch: yes
12:50 * nothingmuch leaves now...
12:50 nothingmuch ciao!
12:50 stevan adios
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12:51 stevan kungfuftr: are you trying to make the test output in PDF?
12:51 * stevan only half read the backlog today
12:55 kungfuftr stevan: i did do
12:55 stevan kungfuftr: even better :)
12:55 stevan which PDF lib did you use?
12:55 kungfuftr PDF::API2
12:55 stevan yuk :P
12:55 * stevan prefers pdflib-lite
12:56 kungfuftr yar, but the most complete
12:56 stevan kungfuftr: have you tried pdflib-lite? It
12:56 stevan is pretty complete
12:56 kungfuftr stevan: nope, mainly because it's all i have available here currently
12:56 stevan :)
12:57 stevan I have actually been working on a DBI like module for PDFs
12:57 kungfuftr stevan: got a url?
12:57 stevan yeah
12:57 stevan this is the commercial site
12:57 stevan http://www.pdflib.com/
12:57 stevan for the more robust lib
12:58 kungfuftr k
12:58 * castaway wonders where theorbtwo went :)
12:58 stevan but if you are on BSD and have access to the ports tree, try /ports/print/pdflib-perl/
12:58 stevan I have used that several times on FreeBSD servers with no issue
12:59 stevan kungfuftr: its a straight port of the C-api,... so its nothing fancy, but I think that in some cases the approach is simpler than PDF::API2
12:59 stevan PDFs are very procedural creatures anyway
12:59 kungfuftr stevan: mainly looking for a way to extract text from PDF (including non-latin characters) in perl
12:59 stevan because all they really are is a sequence of PostScript commands
13:00 stevan kungfuftr: the pdflib has pretty sophisticated PDF-parsing capabilities, but you need to pay for it
13:00 stevan I think the license is like $400 USD
13:00 kungfuftr stevan: hhhmmm... bah, don't think boss would got for the licence
13:00 stevan yeah thats the hard one :)
13:01 jabbot pugs - 2116 - Added script which reads output of "svn
13:01 stevan PDF parsing is pretty difficult since different programs and different libs will create different PDFs
13:02 stevan we tried to create 2 pdfs, one with PDF::API2 and one with pdflib and tried to compare/diff them
13:02 stevan totally different files
13:02 kungfuftr stevan: we'd need the $10,000 licence it'd reckon
13:02 stevan :)
13:02 webmind_ is now known as webmind
13:02 kungfuftr though should check with activestate to see if they have anything
13:03 stevan I think you will find most PDF parsing libs cost $$
13:03 stevan but if you do find a free one,.. please let me know :)
13:04 kungfuftr stevan: well, if activestate have something, it'll not cost us anything
13:05 kungfuftr (owning opensource language and tools company)++
13:05 * shapr waves pom-poms
13:05 * castaway deduces that kungfuftr works for Sophos
13:05 kungfuftr castaway: filthy lies!
13:05 kungfuftr *blink* um... yes
13:08 kungfuftr anyways, back to work with me
13:08 castaway :)
13:09 stevan later kungfuftr
13:09 stevan howdy shapr, I aint seen you 'round these parts lately
13:09 shapr Hiya stevan, I've been busy.
13:10 stevan me too (I finally had to do some $work)
13:10 shapr I should be busy now too, but I got my first wearable digital music player so I'm being geeky.
13:12 stevan very nice
13:12 stevan what did you get?
13:13 shapr iRiver 1GB, after taking back the win32-only drm-only Sony Network Walkman.
13:14 shapr It's quite nice, fm radio, easy voice record/compress/playback on the player itself, and standard mp3/ogg/something else playing.
13:14 * theorbtwo has been trying to mess with the mac.
13:15 stevan I have been condsidering getting one,.. but I find I am rarely without my laptop anyway :)
13:15 shapr I haven't yet tested it in-flight on my unicycle, but that's about to happen once I have some music loaded.
13:15 theorbtwo (And largely failing, but I at least have auto-boot mode off, so it now boots into open firmware.)
13:15 stevan theorbtwo: our fearless Mac-Warrior has returned
13:15 stevan theorbtwo: just FYI, i have OS 9, 10.0, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3 Cds
13:15 stevan all you need to do is ask and I will post images for you
13:19 blackbart has joined #perl6
13:20 shapr stevan: what sort of $work do you do?
13:20 stevan shapr: mostly web-based database reporting tools
13:20 stevan although we do plently of PDF and Excel exporting too
13:21 stevan so it is not always web based
13:21 stevan shapr: and yourself?
13:22 stevan changes topic to: pugscode.org «Overview Journal Logs» | r1773/winxp: 587/4256 smoke/win2k (occasional): http://xrl.us/fqum (158/4302, r2032) Mac OS X (62/4459, r2116) | pugs.kwiki.org
13:22 theorbtwo Hm, these may come in handy.
13:22 shapr Sort of similar stuff. Lately I make websites for EU projects.
13:22 Jonathan_ has joined #perl6
13:23 shapr It mostly consists of webmonkey creation of input/edit/view for whatever type of info the EU project wants.
13:23 stevan ah
13:24 * stevan has to get some more coffee, bbiab
13:24 shapr We use Zope/Plone because we need control flow abstractions, i18n support, document handling, mailing lists, message boards, membership, etc etc
13:25 stevan I have been meaning to check out Zope, but I live so much in a perl world I know I will only get jealous :)
13:25 shapr Zope has good and bad points.
13:26 shapr It's the best thing I've seen yet, but I still very much want something better.
13:28 shapr Computing in general needs a better i18n abstraction. ResourceBundles/gettext/etc just don't cut it.
13:30 jhorwitz has joined #perl6
13:32 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
13:33 nothingmuch afternoon
13:33 theorbtwo Have you read through the i18n modules at search.cpan.org/~autrijus ?
13:33 theorbtwo Nothing mindblowing, but looks quite nice.
13:33 theorbtwo Allo, nothingmuch!
13:33 * castaway didnt notice nothin' go..
13:33 * theorbtwo has the machine booting to OF (without silly stuck keys stuff).
13:34 nothingmuch wee!
13:35 nothingmuch now what can you do?
13:35 * nothingmuch neever dabbled with OF
13:35 nothingmuch except for 'reset all' or whatever
13:35 nothingmuch and 'boot'
13:40 nothingmuch stevan: ping
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14:00 nothingmuch hola Corion
14:00 nothingmuch did you get around to sending that test result?
14:00 Corion hola nothingmuch
14:00 Corion nothingmuch: No - when run manually, it succeeds :(
14:01 nothingmuch oi,
14:01 nothingmuch oh well
14:02 Jonathan_ Gotta run...looks like it's tomorrow morning for getting the smoke tests running, providing nothing gets in my way. Bye
14:02 nothingmuch ciao, Jonathan_
14:02 nothingmuch good luck!
14:02 Jonathan_ has quit IRC (":)")
14:03 nothingmuch what's everyone's favourite slide show tool?
14:04 Corion s5
14:04 Southen has joined #perl6
14:04 shapr I like whatever metaperl was using.
14:04 Corion I even wrote a stupid converter from pod to S5, but there are hundreds of those out there already ;)
14:04 autrijus I use Spork+Kwid+S5
14:04 autrijus or rather, Kwid=>Spork=>S5
14:05 * nothingmuch doesn't want to learn latex every time he wants to use prosper... good calls
14:05 nothingmuch autrijus: got some scripts for that?
14:05 autrijus nothingmuch: it's on CPAN
14:06 autrijus just install Spork and Spork::Formatter::Kwid
14:06 autrijus then
14:06 autrijus spork -new
14:06 autrijus edit config.yaml to say
14:06 autrijus formatter_class: Spork::Formatter::Kwid
14:06 autrijus that's all
14:06 autrijus if you want to generate S5, use
14:06 autrijus plugin_classes:
14:06 autrijus - Spork::S5
14:07 gugod - Spork::S5ThemeFlower
14:07 nothingmuch goody
14:07 nothingmuch http://search.cpan.org/search?query=spork&amp;mode=all
14:07 nothingmuch yielded good results
14:10 nothingmuch can't find Spork::Formatter::Kwid
14:11 autrijus ingy: you forgot to release it?
14:11 autrijus http://autrijus.org/tmp/Spork-Formatter-Kwid-undef.tar.gz
14:12 nothingmuch autrijus++
14:12 nothingmuch it's in SVN either way
14:12 nothingmuch google finds only that
14:14 Corion Hmmm. At least my DSL still works. They were supposed to upgrade it today, but that didn't happen.
14:16 Corion Oooo. nmake optimized now makes ghc.exe (6.4) panic. "ghc.EXE: panic! (the `impossible' happened, GHC version 6.4): mkWWcpr: not a product PugsziAST.Param{tc r1f9}"
14:16 Corion Should we report these somewhere?
14:17 nothingmuch i had that exact error too
14:17 nothingmuch it went away after a while
14:17 Corion nothingmuch: I still have it - since yesterda
14:17 nothingmuch i had that 3 days ago, i think
14:17 Corion in r2116
14:17 nothingmuch and it went away starting yesterday morning, when i started trying again
14:18 Corion nothingmuch: BTW, is there a way to get at your fixed version of Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix without installing darcs ? Like, a new CPAN release? :)
14:19 nothingmuch wget -rp
14:20 pupilzeng has joined #perl6
14:21 nothingmuch i could release it, but i think it's a bit silly
14:21 nothingmuch i'd like to be sure there are no other issues yet, that are as stupid
14:21 nothingmuch i thought of waiting 2 days or so
14:22 autrijus Corion: weird. does "optimized" after "clean" produce that error?
14:22 nothingmuch autrijus: for me it did
14:22 Corion autrijus: Aaah - maybe I should make clean before that ... Will retry after the smoke run went through.
14:24 autrijus nothingmuch: it did produce the error? weird.
14:25 nothingmuch yep
14:25 nothingmuch nevermind, it went away
14:28 Corion nothingmuch: Ah, but to fix all the stupid bugs, that's what version 1.0 is for. We are at 0.01, so you're still free to do incremental fixes :)
14:28 nothingmuch okay
14:28 * nothingmuch releases
14:29 Corion nothingmuch++ # quick releases
14:30 nothingmuch it's been two days, so I think it's OK
14:31 Corion My releases often have a quick (three hour or so) fixup release after them ;)
14:32 beth has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
14:33 Corion nothingmuch: Also, I just want to see if the cpansmoke test produces another failure now for the module (and this time I won't upgrade other modules in the meantime ! I promise!)
14:33 nothingmuch okies =)
14:34 jiing__ has joined #perl6
14:35 * PerlJam does a "svn up" in his pugs dir after several days away from pugs ... let's see what happens  ;)
14:35 * PerlJam fully expects the world to have shifted.
14:35 Corion And there is a new mail worm mailing *.de addresses. Unfortunately, I have such a mail address :(
14:36 Corion Oh. And Pugs versioning is broken again (stopped at r2097)
14:37 Corion r2116 smoke - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
14:38 nothingmuch Corion: 2116 should be at the end of the 'extra' yaml
14:38 Corion nothingmuch: It's there, but it's not up in the version message. And Pugs reports itself as being r2097, while it's actually r2116
14:40 Corion I wonder how I could write a good test for that ... It would need to ask svn ... Not really feasible...
14:41 Corion Ah. I see now. Whoever "fixed" it, made it circumvent my fix. Oh well.
14:42 Corion Or maybe it's just me being stupid. Much more likely.
14:47 lightstep has joined #perl6
14:48 nothingmuch hola lightstep
14:49 lightstep good afternoon
14:50 autrijus yo lightstep-san
14:50 autrijus :r no longer segfaults!
14:51 lightstep happy bday
14:51 lightstep what was the bug?
14:51 autrijus thanks
14:51 autrijus lightstep: seems getEnvironment is not reentrant for some reason
14:51 autrijus all works when I changed it to just getEnv
14:51 autrijus lightstep: are you interested in modelling the Larry List?
14:52 Corion Larry List ?
14:52 autrijus defined in http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.compiler/622
14:52 * Corion reads
14:52 autrijus our Array currently are simple one-part lists
14:53 autrijus Larry Lists (LL in short) will allow pushing to infinite lists.
14:53 autrijus and even popping of.
14:53 stevan pop-ing infinity :)
14:53 autrijus updating our IArray to LLs will rock.
14:54 autrijus nothing else needs changing -- just the IArray data structure itself.
14:54 lightstep push and pop work at the end of the list?
14:54 autrijus aye
14:54 theorbtwo push and pop from the end, unshift and shift from the beginning.
14:54 lightstep and infinite list are different from finite lists? or is it element-lists vs. generator-lists?
14:54 stevan shift and unshift dont work on Inf arrays yet either
14:55 stevan autrijus: did you see the Changelog? I tried to add all of yesterdays commits to it
14:55 theorbtwo Apparently, all lists have an element section, followed by a generator section.
14:55 theorbtwo Of course, either of them can be empty.
14:55 lightstep eek. 0... has a last element
14:55 autrijus lightstep: it seems like LLs has an FixedArray part and a Gen part
14:56 theorbtwo Yep, and that last element is Inf.
14:56 theorbtwo We don't do full Cantor transfinites, just boring old infinity.
14:56 autrijus stevan: right. thanks for the monumental task :)
14:56 Corion The LL sounds sensible to me, at least, it handles push/pop on infinite lists in a sensible way
14:56 stevan autrijus: it was easy actually,.. most of the commmits were tests :)
14:56 autrijus it is sensible. it's just a matter of implementation :)
14:57 stevan BTW - there are commented out tests for these Inf lists in t/builtins/array/push|pop|shift|unshift.t
14:57 autrijus yeah, I've seen'em
14:58 stevan not very extensive though,.. since @larry  hadnt decided on it yet
14:58 autrijus *nod*
14:58 * stevan is off to the dirt world to do some errands
14:58 autrijus have fun :)
14:58 stevan I can try to write better ones when I come back
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15:00 Corion nothingmuch: BTW, I put some fixes for Win32 paths into util/testgraph.pl - do you want them for the main class? Currently it doesn't translate from local filenames to http filenames ...
15:00 BigBear has joined #perl6
15:01 Corion (otherwise, I'll keep them local instead of committing them. They consist of the kludgey $link =~ tr[\\][/]; # for My::File and My::Subtest
15:02 nothingmuch Corion: yes
15:03 theorbtwo D'oh, I should have thought of that.
15:03 theorbtwo I suspect that tests_catalog has a similar bug.
15:03 Corion nothingmuch: I suggest (as a general solution) $link =~ tr[\\][/] if $^O =~ /MSWin32/
15:04 nothingmuch (reverse?)
15:04 Corion theorbtwo: I think alias wrote a module for that, but it always trips me up as well :)
15:04 nothingmuch why not just use File::Spec?
15:04 nothingmuch i'll put the fix where it ought to be
15:05 PerlJam has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
15:05 Corion nothingmuch: Yes - you could use File::Spec - that's the saner approach ;)
15:05 nothingmuch what is the diff?
15:05 nothingmuch i
15:05 nothingmuch am not sure where the problem is yet
15:05 PerlJam has joined #perl6
15:06 Corion nothingmuch: ? Ah - when I run the unmodified testgraph.pl, I get links like t\builtins\foo.t#line25
15:06 nothingmuch oh
15:06 Corion ... which is not really good if I want to use it via HTTP instead of the file system
15:06 nothingmuch i get it
15:06 nothingmuch it's too much File::Spec
15:06 nothingmuch ;-)
15:06 Corion nothingmuch: You need to join "/". File::Spec is good for local files but not for HTTP :)
15:06 * nothingmuch thought URI::file would take care of that
15:07 nothingmuch it's taking a $path (opaque, comes from File::Find, $subtest->test_file, which is parsed from <pos:...>
15:08 nothingmuch File::Spec is never in the way actually
15:08 nothingmuch then I do return URI::file->new($path);
15:09 nothingmuch I see: $u4 = URI::file->new("c:\\windows\\", "win32");
15:09 Corion nothingmuch: Hmmm. Won't that create an absolute path?
15:09 nothingmuch hmm, from the docs it sounds like it should work
15:09 lightstep what is the arrangement of src/ ?
15:09 lightstep (ie. which modules are in the Pugs namespace, and which are not?)
15:10 nothingmuch • [syeeda:~] nothingmuch % perl -MURI::file -e 'warn URI::file->new("foo\\bar.txt", "win32")'
15:10 nothingmuch foo/bar.txt at -e line 1.
15:10 * nothingmuch is stumped
15:10 Corion lightstep: All internal stuff went below Pugs/, but non-#perl6 libraries stay up there
15:10 theorbtwo ...is, I think, the theory.
15:10 Corion I guess that URI::file is the thing then. That looks good.
15:10 nothingmuch • [syeeda:~] nothingmuch % perl -MURI::file -e 'warn URI::file->new("c:\\foo\\bar.txt", "win32")'
15:10 nothingmuch file:///c:/foo/bar.txt at -e line 1.
15:10 nothingmuch makes sense
15:11 Corion For example the unicode is not internal, as is the regex lib
15:11 nothingmuch i'm already using it, though, that's what's odd about the whole mess
15:11 theorbtwo The reality is that I moved everything except the things that autrijus told me not to move.
15:11 Corion theorbtwo: :))
15:11 PerlJam has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
15:12 nothingmuch Corion: could you test how URI::file behaves without "win32" sent in, by default?
15:12 lightstep and what is Pugs.Types.Array ?
15:12 PerlJam has joined #perl6
15:12 nothingmuch lightstep: Itypes implementations
15:12 lightstep oh
15:12 theorbtwo It's the implementation of the Array IType.
15:13 lightstep but all it contains is a class definition
15:13 theorbtwo Yeah.
15:13 Corion C:\>perl -MURI::file -e "warn URI::file->new('foo\\bar.txt')"
15:13 lightstep oh, i get it
15:13 Corion # foo/bar.txt at -e line 1.
15:14 nothingmuch oh crap
15:14 Corion Ooo. After a "make clean", "make optimized" compiles.
15:15 nothingmuch I forgot to do it for the links, it's only done for the CSS
15:15 nothingmuch Corion++; # really a bug
15:17 autrijus lightstep: the actualy IArray definition is in AST.hs
15:18 autrijus line 1026
15:18 obra   'morning
15:18 autrijus hi obra.
15:18 obra how goes?
15:18 autrijus brain hurts.
15:18 nothingmuch Corion: want to try now?
15:18 autrijus 4th full day of banging-against-the-bamboo-wall
15:18 Corion nothingmuch: Try now what?
15:18 autrijus in a murderous mood :)
15:18 shapr autrijus: you need a machete!
15:18 shapr Ok, never mind
15:19 Corion Or many many pandas
15:19 nothingmuch Devel::ebug is my new machete
15:19 nothingmuch Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix
15:19 shapr autrijus + murderous mood + machete = bad
15:19 Corion nothingmuch: From where?
15:19 nothingmuch wget -r http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-HTMLMatrix
15:19 * autrijus frags shapr mercilessly
15:19 nothingmuch ... or you could also get a darcs binary
15:20 * shapr respawns in another part of the level.
15:20 Corion nothingmuch: Ah, I've got 2 vcs installed already :)
15:20 nothingmuch so?
15:20 autrijus obra: http://struts.apache.org/flow/remote-example.html
15:20 nothingmuch ;-)
15:20 theorbtwo shapr++
15:20 autrijus obra: I'm converging there.
15:21 jabbot pugs - 2117 - add a couple of phrases
15:22 nothingmuch Corion: darcs is very unintrusive, i think you'd like it if you don't want more bloat
15:22 obra huh.
15:22 obra Which parts of that? Are continuations now a part of this?
15:22 * shapr has at least four VCSs installed
15:23 nothingmuch woo! you can set $^O
15:23 * nothingmuch has cvs, svn, svk (unused), darcs
15:23 nothingmuch i should get around to learning svk finally
15:23 nothingmuch but darcs is so fun
15:23 shapr Yeah, darcs is addictively easy.
15:23 autrijus obra: uh, more like the ajax help part
15:25 larsen has joined #perl6
15:25 obra ah :)
15:25 Corion nothingmuch: Tested and installed OK here.
15:25 obra pk. makes more sense
15:25 nothingmuch how about the links?
15:26 nothingmuch (i did not yet check in tests for URI
15:26 Corion nothingmuch: I'm generating the graph at the moment :)
15:26 nothingmuch with or without your tr///?
15:26 Corion Ah, and btw, there is a potential division by zero error in the ::Model
15:26 Corion nothing currently testing without the model
15:27 nothingmuch i know, fixed
15:27 nothingmuch 0.03 coming together
15:30 Corion Hmm - no, still broken # http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html . But maybe that's a stale file.
15:31 Corion No, the local copy is the same.
15:32 nothingmuch okay, i wrote the test, now i'm working with that
15:40 nothingmuch well, i've violated the darcs mantra
15:40 nothingmuch unupull the URI::file in links patch
15:40 nothingmuch and then darcs pull
15:40 nothingmuch i've amend recorded a published patch because I shouldn't have published it
15:41 justatheory has joined #perl6
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15:50 ninereasons has joined #perl6
15:52 ninereasons hi
15:53 shapr niner niner, we read ya good buddy.
15:53 shapr What's your 10-20?
15:54 theorbtwo The svn --version should be working again.
15:54 ninereasons puddletown usa, goodbuddy; backatcha
15:55 Shillo_ has left "Leaving"
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16:01 jabbot pugs - 2118 - Make --version's r\d+ work right again (
16:06 chady has quit IRC ("leaving")
16:11 jabbot pugs - 2119 - * serializable subcontinuation monad imp
16:11 jabbot pugs - 2120 - * err, typo.
16:11 shapr That's nearly quotable.
16:11 shapr "serializable subcontinuation monad implementation" "whoops, just a typo, really"
16:12 integral heh
16:12 autrijus heh.
16:14 qmole lol
16:14 nothingmuch hah
16:14 nothingmuch is now known as someone
16:14 someone tee hee
16:14 someone is now known as nothingmuch
16:16 ingy morning
16:17 shapr Fnord
16:17 nothingmuch shapr++
16:18 nothingmuch hola ingy
16:18 nothingmuch how many pounds in the last 24 hrs?
16:18 ingy hi nothingmuch
16:18 ingy um 1-2
16:18 ingy hopefully I'll be in maintenance mode this time next week
16:19 ingy getting tired of not eating
16:19 nothingmuch i wonder why that is
16:19 ingy although I must say that not eating is far less ditracting
16:20 nothingmuch Devel::Cover is soooo sloooow
16:21 pjcj I optimise via Moore's law!
16:21 nothingmuch pjcj: explain
16:21 pjcj in 18 months it'll seem twice as fast
16:21 theorbtwo ...assuming the machines it's being run on are new.
16:21 lightstep chuck moore sells 60-GIPS chips for $1 US
16:22 nothingmuch heh
16:22 * nothingmuch 's computer is 5 years old
16:22 nothingmuch lightstep: ref?
16:23 lightstep forthfreak.net/misc/25x.html
16:24 ninereasons thanks for fixing the ":r" segfault, autrijus.
16:25 autrijus ninereasons: no prob :)
16:26 lightstep those chips are a little silly, though: 0.5 W of power, and no muptiplication opcode
16:29 nothingmuch this is not really going to be the next big thing, is it?
16:29 shapr Isn't it similar to the Cell's tradeoff?
16:30 lightstep he's making these designs for the last decade or so
16:33 lightstep has quit IRC ("leaving")
16:42 ingy perlbot: nopaste?
16:42 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
16:45 jiing__ has quit IRC ("Computer goes to sleep!")
16:49 xerox has joined #perl6
16:49 nothingmuch welll, does anybody else have Test::TAP::Foo bugs?
16:50 * nothingmuch considers finally releasing
16:50 nothingmuch hammerred out div by 0 cases in ratio
16:50 nothingmuch now it DWIMS
16:50 nothingmuch and have actual_cases method
16:50 nothingmuch and $subtest->planned;
16:51 jabbot pugs - 2121 - * `:l filename` no longer needs double q
16:52 ninereasons neato, typing savings
16:52 nothingmuch yay! drinking age in toronto is 199
16:52 nothingmuch i was afraid it was 21
16:52 nothingmuch s/9$//;
16:54 Juerd 199; grin.
16:56 theorbtwo (In the revision 2121, if Pugs is still alive...)
16:56 autrijus hm?
16:56 theorbtwo Old song.
16:56 theorbtwo Not a good one either.
16:56 theorbtwo http://frodisman.com/2525.html
16:57 theorbtwo Oh, also it doesn't have a 2121 verse, just 2525.
17:02 osfameron_ has quit IRC ("Leaving")
17:03 Limbic_Region chip about?
17:03 Limbic_Region seen chip?
17:03 jabbot Limbic_Region: chip was seen on Fri Apr  8 19:06:05 2005 GMT
17:05 ihb has joined #perl6
17:09 nothingmuch beh, releng never ever ends
17:17 * nothingmuch releases
17:18 BigBear has quit IRC (Client Quit)
17:21 jabbot pugs - 2122 - * assigning a List into a Scalar vivifie
17:22 nothingmuch tarballs on http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-Model and http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-HTMLMatrix
17:28 gaal has joined #perl6
17:35 nothingmuch wow, i love darcs SOOOOO much
17:35 nothingmuch example.pl snuck into Test::TAP::Model
17:35 nothingmuch you can massage it out of history
17:35 * nothingmuch feels like Richard Nixon
17:36 ninereasons revisionist revision control
17:37 nothingmuch uhuh
17:37 nothingmuch and all with branching =)
17:37 nothingmuch no 'p4 obliterate'
17:38 autrijus darcs is supernice when you only have a couple developers :)
17:38 autrijus <- developed Pugs up to 6.0.2 with darcs
17:39 nothingmuch autrijus: what happens when more enter the picture?
17:39 * nothingmuch doesn't have project which are that busy
17:39 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("CGI:IRC")
17:39 nothingmuch i rather like SVN now that I know it more
17:39 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
17:39 nothingmuch it's copying metaphore is very elegant
17:40 autrijus nothingmuch: the slowness kicks in.
17:40 nothingmuch but centralization bites me
17:40 nothingmuch i guess svk is prolly best for larger groups
17:40 nothingmuch while darcs is fun for your own kind of thing
17:40 nothingmuch autrijus: ah....
17:40 nothingmuch they're working on it though
17:40 nothingmuch lots of improvements, lately
17:40 nothingmuch and David is taking a sabbatical, to work on the conflict resolution stuff
17:42 nothingmuch wow... /me sold $12 worth of photos at shutterstock
17:42 autrijus cool. but svk gained the darcs dependency algorithm :)
17:42 * nothingmuch is impressed with himself
17:42 nothingmuch but it can't undo
17:42 autrijus nothingmuch: actually we figured out how to do that too :)
17:42 nothingmuch that's actually my #1 reason for liking darcs now
17:42 nothingmuch really?
17:42 autrijus `svk obliterate`
17:42 autrijus only works on fsfs though.
17:42 nothingmuch in that case, make an interface as nice as darcs, and =)
17:42 nothingmuch fsfs?
17:43 autrijus the new svn 1.1 backend
17:43 nothingmuch is clkao coming to the hackathon?
17:43 autrijus it works by zeroing out the delta.
17:43 autrijus don't think so... he's going to euroscon and yapceu last I heard
17:43 nothingmuch bummer
17:43 * nothingmuch promised he'd help
17:43 nothingmuch but then time suddenly diminished
17:44 nothingmuch maybe you'd like to hack a bit of svk at the hackathon
17:44 nothingmuch well, lets not make plans
17:44 nothingmuch we'll see what we want to do when we get there
17:53 clkao bwahaha
17:53 nothingmuch bwahaha?
17:55 iblechbot has joined #perl6
17:58 crysflame hi, clkao
17:58 nothingmuch URI::Title <-- interesting
18:02 Corion Hmm - the build is currently broken (r2122) - src/Pugs/Help.hs: file name does not match module name `Main'
18:03 autrijus huh?
18:03 autrijus worksforme
18:03 autrijus can other people confirm?
18:05 Corion "nmake clean && perl Makefile.PL && nmake" gives that problem.
18:05 ninereasons no problem seen here
18:06 Corion Weird ... I don't see any problem either, but ghc doesn't want it ...
18:06 Corion src/Main.hs is there, it finds it, but then complains about src/Pugs/Help.hs ...
18:07 autrijus Corion: "svn di" for local differences
18:07 autrijus and do a "make clean"?
18:07 autrijus failling that, try fresh checkout?
18:08 Corion Ah. My usual problem. No newline at end of file - which doesn't get caught by a fresh checkout, but which makes ghc cry.
18:08 Corion autrijus: Checkouts don't catch that...
18:08 Corion Yep - now builds properly.
18:09 autrijus you really should switch to a newline-happy editor :)
18:09 * theorbtwo wonders if there's a way to get openfoundry to reject files with missing newlines at the end.
18:09 Corion Why is ghc broken that way? (and why is my editor broken that way too)
18:09 Corion I'm also looking for a fast/nice/tabbing editor that knows UTF8. I don't want the hog that is Eclipse, don't want vi* or emacs*
18:10 autrijus well.. that doesn't leave much choices
18:10 autrijus Komodo? ;)
18:10 theorbtwo I hear good things about kwrite.
18:10 Corion autrijus: Hmmm - never looked at it.
18:10 Corion I should continue working on Zaphod.
18:10 autrijus there is Haste.
18:10 Corion An editor that is scriptable in JS has many advantages.
18:11 * Corion goes looking for Haste
18:11 autrijus # http://haste.dyndns.org:8080/screenshots.php
18:11 autrijus it doesn't help your perl files :)
18:11 Corion Ugh. Also uses Java. Big-slow-bloat.
18:11 autrijus is it?
18:11 Corion Oh. Now the error mutated.
18:11 autrijus I thought it's totally in GHC.
18:11 Corion src/RRegex.o(.text+0xd8):ghc2480.hc: undefined reference to `RRegexziSyntax_zdwpolyzuzez126Uz126U4_closure'
18:12 Corion ... and some more.
18:12 autrijus Corion: a clean+make will almost surely fix that
18:12 Corion while Linking ...
18:12 Corion autrijus: Did that already. Maybe I should do a fresh checkout...
18:12 Corion Or maybe you did forget to check in a relevant file?
18:12 autrijus maybe, yeah. sounds weird
18:12 autrijus I didn't.
18:13 ninereasons Corion, I like Helios Textpad, which has some support for utf8 encoding
18:13 Corion autrijus: Oh well - I'll wipe src/ and do a fresh checkout then.
18:16 Corion Yep. Wiping src/ and checking it out again worked. I wonder what caused that, because svn status claimed I was clean...
18:18 * ninereasons finds himself typing " :t subname " in pugs.
18:19 ninereasons mild case of Haskell infection
18:19 ninereasons mostly, I seem to be immune
18:19 Corion I need a faster machine. Building Pugs (optimized) already takes as long or even longer than building Perl ...
18:20 theorbtwo We could make that work, possibly, though the types of subs I don't think are currently hugely interesting.
18:20 ninereasons it seems to be largely a function of how much memory you have, Corion
18:21 * shapr hasn't recovered yet
18:21 clkao i/win24
18:21 Corion ninereasons: I have 1GB of real RAM, and GHC only seems to be using 200MB or so. Maybe I should look into giving ghc more RAM ...
18:21 shapr four years and counting
18:22 Corion shapr: Complaints about ghc? :)
18:22 shapr Only that it has more flags than the UN.
18:22 ninereasons hahah
18:22 autrijus Corion: splice.t all passes.
18:22 Corion autrijus: Oh whee! That means I need to uncomment some of the harder tests there! Yay! :)))
18:23 autrijus Corion: actually I uncommented them :)
18:23 autrijus see r2123.
18:23 Corion autrijus++
18:23 autrijus now you can convert the rest 5
18:23 Corion autrijus: Sure will do :)) And I really have to look at your changes to learn what you did :)
18:23 clkao autrijus: damnit. let's do svk hackathon in yapceu
18:23 autrijus clkao: I won't be @yapceu
18:23 Corion clkao: Could be interesting ;)
18:24 autrijus euroscon, yes
18:24 autrijus unless I manage to find another sponsor
18:24 Corion (but I don't know/have svk)
18:24 clkao where will you be around that time?
18:24 autrijus Corion: just download the win32 installer and start s/svn/svk/g
18:24 autrijus Corion: everything will be the same except magically faster
18:24 autrijus clkao: dunno, it's mostly funding issue
18:25 Corion autrijus: And I'll have a local repository where I can commit to. Hmmm ...
18:25 clkao autrijus: er, to #svn-dev and talk to brane. he is resolving the bad apr_uint32_t issues
18:26 clkao autrijus: funding, i thought you earned enough money last year :p
18:26 autrijus clkao: ...and I'm going to invest all of them to this box thing :p
18:26 clkao oh.
18:26 clkao magical box
18:26 shapr Pandora's box?
18:26 autrijus rubic's box
18:27 shapr What's rubic's box? Like Rubik's Cube?
18:27 autrijus right. misspelling
18:28 * theorbtwo wants to see a Rubik's Cube case mod now.
18:28 theorbtwo Preferably motorized.
18:28 shapr Would be an amusing way to dump heat.
18:28 shapr Watch the bits spin.
18:29 theorbtwo I'm not sure it'd really dump heat.
18:30 theorbtwo Friction.
18:31 Corion autrijus: I get No compatible subroutine found: &splice\n App "&splice" [] [Var "@a",App "&prefix:+" [Var "@a"] [],Val (VInt 0),Val (VInt 11),Val (VInt 12)] # now
18:31 Corion ... which is the first splice call I want to test.
18:31 autrijus Corion: really.
18:31 autrijus Corion: is it from splice.t?
18:32 Corion Yeah - line 53 is offending I think.
18:32 Corion If I comment out lines 52-56, some more tests pass and then it dies after test 7
18:33 autrijus this is maximally weird.
18:33 autrijus I'll check out a fresh copy.
18:33 Corion The first test is splice(@a,+@a,0,11,12); - maybe it doesn't like that inline list at the end ? I'll check my local status with svn diff - maybe the newlines got broken again and I didn't notice.
18:34 autrijus no, it all works for me
18:34 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/YAPC/NA/2005/outline.txt
18:34 autrijus that test, I mean
18:34 Corion No, all clean according to svn diff.
18:34 Corion and r2123 is the most current version.
18:34 nothingmuch cleaned up a bit, now that I can read better
18:34 Corion And just before I started looking closer, I saw splice.t work
18:35 Corion I think I need to wipe the whole directory and check out completely fresh :(
18:35 autrijus it worksforme from a fresh copy :(
18:35 Corion autrijus: I think it's something broken in my local copy and I need to nuke it from space. It's the only way to be sure.
18:36 theorbtwo (Jurassic Park solution)++
18:37 Corion Oh. "make" works. "make optimize" doesn't.
18:37 Corion This is really weird. If we accept ghc as bugfree, that is.
18:37 * Corion builds pugs as optimized again.
18:37 theorbtwo GHC is not bugfree.
18:37 Corion theorbtwo: I know.
18:38 autrijus we are exercising all sorts of cutting edges.
18:38 theorbtwo You might be interested in adding a -dcore-lint, to tell you where ghc thinks it's buggy.
18:38 Corion ... but in an ideal world, the optimized version would be functionally identical to the unoptimized version ;)
18:38 Corion autrijus: The GHC devs should worship you, as you supply them with a possibly infinite list of bugreports :)
18:38 Corion "potentially"
18:38 * theorbtwo tries to remember what he was working on.
18:39 Corion theorbtwo: resurrecting your filesystem?
18:39 theorbtwo No, did that several days ago.
18:39 theorbtwo Mostly, at least.
18:39 Corion No. It was merely a bad build, however I did that. Now it just plain works, even with the optimized build.
18:39 theorbtwo /var and /home were on a different partition.
18:39 * Corion doubts his sanity.
18:40 Corion (a bit more than every other day)
18:40 autrijus theorbtwo: Evalable? :D
18:40 theorbtwo Ah, no, but close.
18:40 theorbtwo Writing tests for the existing eval_haskell.
18:40 castaway eval_lisp !
18:40 theorbtwo Including a bunch of TODO tests.
18:40 autrijus delete.t passes. yay.
18:41 jabbot pugs - 2123 - * splice.t all passes.
18:41 jabbot pugs - 2124 - * delete.t passes.
18:41 * autrijus praises the high test coverage
18:42 machack666 has joined #perl6
18:42 machack666 pugs> my $j = 1|2
18:42 machack666 undef
18:42 machack666 $j = 5
18:42 machack666 *** Error:: Can't modify constant item
18:43 machack666 I get that the assignment is being autothreaded, but does this mean that once a variable is declared a junction, it cannot be reassigned?
18:44 machack666 i.e., is there some way of saying $j, the variable, rather than $j, the junction of the two values held in the variable
18:44 nothingmuch maybe if you take a ref to a junction, then it become a non-autothreading junction?
18:44 autrijus I don't think assignment is autothreaded.
18:45 autrijus it's just a simple bug :)
18:45 machack666 I think we're getting the equivalent of 1 = 5 | 2 = 5
18:45 Corion autrijus: Do we know how big our test coverage actually is? In a Devel::Cover sense, I mean?
18:45 * nothingmuch meant in the general case
18:45 autrijus machack666: add a test for that?
18:45 nothingmuch Corion: Paul Johnson thought that maybe we could pull something off with hat
18:45 machack666 sure ... is that an eval ... ; 1 case?
18:45 autrijus machack666: eval_ok, yeah
18:46 Corion nothingmuch: Nice - so we can zero in on the white spots of the map :)
18:46 pjcj nothingmuch: no - that looks unlikely now
18:46 nothingmuch oh, you are paul johnson
18:46 pjcj ;-)
18:46 theorbtwo HAT doesn't work for a lot of the more odd features of GHC.
18:46 nothingmuch pjcj++; # Devel::Cover has been very useful for me lately
18:47 pjcj thanks - I'm glad it has
18:47 BigBear has joined #perl6
18:47 dakkar has joined #perl6
18:47 pjcj right, pugs uses libraries hat can't deal with
18:48 nothingmuch maybe we can be a bit more brutish, and just note every successful pattern match and the function it took?
18:48 nothingmuch the only thing left after that is branches
18:48 nothingmuch i think
18:48 theorbtwo And sadly it fails very uncleanly.
18:49 nothingmuch how hackable is GHC?
18:49 shapr Somewhat hackable.
18:49 autrijus GHC is written in GHC
18:49 shapr On the good side, the primary GHC developer shows up on #haskell most days, so once you get into it, you can ask him deep questions.
18:49 machack666 ok, added a test in t/junctions/misc_junctions.t
18:49 nothingmuch autrijus: that does not compute
18:50 autrijus machack666: danke
18:50 machack666 de nada
18:50 autrijus shapr: oh, wait, who is that?
18:50 nothingmuch shapr: I hope that was a hypothetical 'you'
18:50 Corion autrijus: I get two fails now in splice.t, with weird tests that I don't really understand. But I verified them in Perl5. (r2127)
18:51 jabbot pugs - 2125 - * exists.t passes.
18:51 jabbot pugs - 2126 - Test for reassignment of a junction vari
18:51 jabbot pugs - 2127 - Converted more Perl tests
18:51 machack666 off to find more corner cases...
18:51 machack666 has left
18:56 nothingmuch Corion: any results from tapfoo yet?
18:56 Corion nothingmuch: tapfoo?
18:56 nothingmuch Test::TAP::*
18:57 Corion nothingmuch: Just installing the new versions from your tarballs
18:57 Corion Both tested (and installed) clean
18:58 nothingmuch how about the URI mess?
18:59 machack666 has joined #perl6
18:59 machack666 ok:
19:00 machack666 pugs> my $j = 1|2
19:00 machack666 pugs> my $k= \$j
19:00 machack666 pugs> $k.ref
19:00 machack666 ({ref:<Scalar::Const>})
19:01 nothingmuch wow
19:01 nothingmuch how do you find all this stuff?
19:01 machack666 looks like it's taking a ref to the contents, and not to the junction itself
19:01 machack666 i like to break things
19:01 machack666 :D
19:01 nothingmuch i meant how do you figure out what to try and break?
19:02 machack666 instinct, i guess
19:02 nothingmuch machack666++
19:02 machack666 my first karma point !!
19:02 machack666 :)
19:02 nothingmuch machack666++
19:02 nothingmuch machack666++; # deserves more
19:03 masak machack666++
19:03 machack666 my second karma point !!
19:03 nothingmuch perlbot karma machack666
19:03 perlbot Karma for machack666: 4
19:03 masak :)
19:03 nothingmuch =)
19:03 machack666 my "third" | "fourth" karma point !!
19:03 masak lol
19:03 machack666 so what is the type of a junction ref supposed to return, so I can write a test for it?
19:04 theorbtwo perlbot, highest karma
19:04 perlbot The top 5 karma entries: C: 93, autrijus: 83, nothingmuch: 59, stevan: 49, theorbtwo: 31
19:04 machack666 C++ :P_
19:04 shapr C--
19:04 theorbtwo C--
19:04 machack666 must come up in conversatin
19:04 shapr C-- is at http://www.cminusminus.org/
19:05 * machack666 considers changing his nick to machack666++
19:05 machack666 ;)
19:05 nothingmuch lets talk about C-- in the context of how GHC uses C-- to create C code. Does GHC use C--?
19:05 nothingmuch C-- is much better than the cee that shall not be autoincremented
19:05 nothingmuch doesn't see, to work
19:05 * shapr laughs
19:06 shapr That which shall not be autoincremented.
19:06 nothingmuch I think C-- is really cool, only I don't really know what C-- is. Anyone care to explain C--?
19:06 shapr perlbot: highest karma
19:06 perlbot The top 5 karma entries: C: 84, autrijus: 83, nothingmuch: 59, stevan: 49, theorbtwo: 31
19:06 shapr wow, that was fast.
19:07 machack666 perlbot: lowest karma
19:07 perlbot The bottom 5 karma entries: <: -417, -: -89, php: -70, <!: -36, ": -15
19:07 Corion_ has joined #perl6
19:07 nothingmuch where's rindolf?
19:07 q[acme] heh <!
19:07 * shapr summons schlomi
19:07 machack666 perlbot: middlingest karma
19:08 nothingmuch middest karma?
19:08 theorbtwo C-- C--
19:08 shapr midden karma?
19:08 shapr C-- C-- !
19:08 machack666 C----!
19:08 machack666 C-=100?
19:09 * machack666 contemplates breaking the perlbot...
19:09 machack666 edge cases, dammit!
19:09 Corion_ nothingmuch: http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
19:09 machack666 ;)
19:09 mj C--
19:09 machack666 has left
19:09 shapr perlbot: highest karma
19:09 perlbot The top 5 karma entries: autrijus: 83, C: 78, nothingmuch: 59, stevan: 49, theorbtwo: 31
19:09 shapr ahh, much better.
19:10 nothingmuch Corion: with your hacks?
19:10 Corion_ nothingmuch: No, without any hacks.
19:10 nothingmuch yay!
19:10 castaway orange!
19:10 * nothingmuch goes to play with sister
19:10 * autrijus waves goodnight
19:10 nothingmuch orange what?
19:10 nothingmuch ciao, autrijus!
19:11 jabbot pugs - 2128 - eval_is '...' won't find the lexical '$j
19:11 Corion_ Hmmm. Should \xa0 break in a whitespace delimited list? I think not.
19:11 castaway colours
19:11 * Corion_ goes to investigate
19:11 castaway later nothingmuch
19:11 theorbtwo I think not as well.
19:11 theorbtwo G'night, autrijus.
19:11 nothingmuch castaway: which colours? in the percentages?
19:11 theorbtwo Er, G'night, nothingmuch.
19:11 shapr good night autrijus!
19:12 castaway yup
19:12 * nothingmuch will come back =)
19:12 nothingmuch castaway: aren't they pretty? i like around 65%ish the best
19:12 * shapr throws lambdas
19:12 castaway pretty++
19:12 shapr C--
19:12 * theorbtwo ducks.
19:13 * castaway catches and tosses back
19:13 Corion__ has joined #perl6
19:13 theorbtwo Careful, those lambdas have sharp points!
19:13 theorbtwo Allo, Corion!
19:13 theorbtwo Are my flixes for the version thingy working for you?
19:13 osfameron has joined #perl6
19:14 Corion__ Hmm. The connection seems a bit spotty :(
19:14 theorbtwo Oh, the DSL-ISP switch finally went through?
19:16 Corion__ theorbtwo: Partially. I'm now on a 3mbit line. But I still don't have the 1und1 account data %-)
19:16 Corion__ I'm using my T-Online account now, which is only good for a 1mbit line, supposedly. But I've also read that others are using their 1mbit account on 3mbit lines.
19:16 shapr Does it cost three times as much?
19:16 castaway sneaky
19:17 Corion__ shapr: With T-Online it costs three times as much (usually), 70 EUR as opposed to 25 EUR. But with the switch I will pay 7 EUR.
19:17 Corion__ Oh. I got a mail from their customer support. Let's see.
19:17 castaway is that including the line?
19:18 Corion__ And some more ... mailworms :(
19:18 Corion__ I need to rewire my mailscanner to delete them on the pop account so they don't clog my mailarchive :(
19:19 hlen has quit IRC ("use vim")
19:19 Corion__ Grrr. Their customer "service" reply is merely a redirect to the phone support. Which is closed for today. Great.
19:19 Corion__ (but I expected bad customer service)
19:19 shapr I recently got k-lined by my ISP because they had network problems so I flooded the MAC address cache on the switch to explore the local net. They laughed when I told them I was actually trying to fix the network rather than DoS it.
19:20 Corion__ shapr: Take over their Cisco routers and reconfigure the network yourself.
19:20 Corion_ has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
19:20 shapr I'm tempted.
19:20 Corion__ is now known as Corion_
19:20 shapr But I have enough stuff to do, and they're limping along by themselves for the most part.
19:21 Corion has quit IRC (Nick collision from services.)
19:21 Corion_ is now known as Corion
19:22 Corion Hmm. I should find some big file to download, to see if the connection is capped or not ;)
19:23 shapr download me!
19:23 Corion shapr: url?
19:23 * gaal reads the poem for Config.hs and giggles
19:23 shapr um
19:23 shapr Sadly, I'm not network enabled to that level yet.
19:24 gaal s/poem/riddle/ really.
19:26 theorbtwo Corion: Download yourself a new kernel source tarball.
19:26 shapr Oh, good idea. You could darcs get the linux kernel repo
19:26 Corion theorbtwo: Yeah, that's an idea.
19:26 Corion shapr: I don't have darcs :)
19:27 shapr You could download darcs first ;-)
19:27 shapr Oh, speaking of which I should migrate the DarcsWiki to moin 1.3 and upload it to darcs.net
19:28 shapr Now that I finally got around to asking for a login for darcs.net.
19:30 hlen has joined #perl6
19:31 jabbot pugs - 2129 - unTODOed unexpected succeedings
19:32 BigBear has quit IRC (Client Quit)
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19:33 TheBigBear has quit IRC (Client Quit)
19:34 gaal perl5 $Config{sig_name} is ugly imo. think we can change it from a string to something else?
19:35 BigBear has joined #perl6
19:37 Corion Ah hah. Seems like Haskell words() regards \xA0 as whitespace.
19:37 Corion ... which is bad/unexpected.
19:40 * boogie introducing the first Pugs web application
19:40 * boogie says it's very slow, so I'll remove from my server, but you can check it now. :)
19:40 boogie http://perl6.wish.hu/cgi-bin/index.cgi
19:44 Corion boogie: Nice :))
19:45 theorbtwo Cool.
19:47 theorbtwo Hm, there's an awful lot of "some nondescript dude" tiles.
19:48 castaway camels++
19:49 boogie thanks. :)
19:49 stevan boogie++
19:50 stevan boogie: you should put this into CGI/examples/
19:50 theorbtwo boogie++
19:50 * theorbtwo wonders what http://perl6.wish.hu/pics/card10.jpg is.
19:50 shapr It's a camel.
19:51 jabbot pugs - 2130 - Fixed whitespace parsing. \xA0 is nonbre
19:51 boogie stevan: the code has a lot of ugly hacks, i don't think it's a good idea. :)
19:52 shapr theorbtwo: I'm guessing it's part of the Perl Tarot.
19:53 stevan boogie: so does CGI.pm :)
19:54 * theorbtwo didn't know there was a perl tarot.
19:54 * shapr didn't either.
19:54 theorbtwo Of course, I also don't recognize all the faces in this game.
19:55 Corion Bah. Looks like the latest "fix" I committed did break more than it fixed (as usual).
19:55 shapr That's how we all learn.
19:56 Corion shapr: True, but I should learn to run "make test" _before_ I commit :)
19:56 shapr ah, good point.
19:56 * theorbtwo doesn't recognize guy-with-brown-stripe-in-the-background, guy-with-pale-blue-background, or guy-with-grey-background.
19:57 boogie who wonders: 3 - larry wall, 4 - leo tötsch, 5 - me, 6 - autrijus tang, 8 - damian conway, 9 - randal schwartz
19:58 ninereasons fun stuff, boogie.  
19:58 boogie stevan: It's really ugly. But I'll think about it. ;)
19:58 theorbtwo Are you sure 6 is Autrijus?
19:59 shapr card7 maybe?
19:59 boogie theorbtwo: I'm not sure just me and Leo (I met him personally), the others from Google Images
20:00 boogie the correct list: 3 - larry wall, 4 - leo tötsch, 5 - me, 7 - autrijus tang, 8 - damian conway, 9 - randal schwartz
20:00 stevan two matches so far ;)
20:00 boogie 6 - dan sugalski
20:01 stevan boogie: I think the code (regardless of the number of ugly hacks) is useful for people to see
20:01 stevan we all promise not to judge you by it :)
20:01 theorbtwo Who is 6, then?
20:02 theorbtwo Ah, thank you, boogie.
20:03 stevan I got Larry, Randall and a Camel :)
20:03 stevan doh,.. the server went away ??
20:03 ninereasons shut down now, for me
20:04 ninereasons well, boogie said that its' being removed
20:05 ninereasons ... and now it's back
20:05 boogie oops, i've gzipped the whole directory. :)
20:06 boogie it's seems that the server is OK now, I think I will remove it later
20:07 boogie the load is about 6, what's not normal, but working
20:10 lightstep has joined #perl6
20:10 jhorwitz has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.2/20050317]")
20:10 lightstep what is PAR?
20:11 Corion PAR is the Perl answer to JAR - a self-contained Perl package
20:11 Corion (can be converted into a self-contained executable9
20:11 lightstep autrijus wrote about #par in his journal, but it seems rather empty
20:13 Corion There is a talk by autrijus on PAR ( he held it on the German Perl Workshop)
20:13 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
20:13 Corion I think CPAN also has lots on PAR, resp. the documentation of PAR.
20:13 * Corion goes looking for the talk.
20:14 Corion http://wagner.elixus.org/~autrijus/par-tutorial/start.html
20:15 Corion testgraph++ # makes comparing against the current test run very convenient
20:21 jabbot pugs - 2131 - Working fix for nonbreaking whitespace.
20:21 ninereasons www.letterjames.de is nifty
20:23 lightstep the we-want-cookies-and-you-don't page isn't available in english
20:36 Corion r2131 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
20:37 Corion changes topic to: pugscode.org «Overview Journal Logs» | r1773/winxp: 587/4256 smoke/win2k (occasional): http://xrl.us/fqum (91/4373, r2131) Mac OS X (62/4459, r2116) | pugs.kwiki.org
20:39 theorb has joined #perl6
20:43 mj my @index = (
20:43 mj   hash ( a => 1,  b => 2,  ),
20:43 mj        { c => 3,  d => 4,  },
20:43 mj );
20:43 mj say join " ", @index.ref, @index[0].ref, @index[1].ref;  # Array Hash Pair
20:44 theorb Hm, well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
20:46 stevan :)
20:47 cognominal has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:49 theorb Hm, which is better for eval_haskell if $*PUGS_HAS_HSPLUGINS is 0: Don't plan the rest of the tests, or skip them?
20:51 cognominal has joined #perl6
20:51 Corion theorb: I think skipping is better, as skipping produces some output that will allow you to diagnose the problem.
20:52 Corion Perl also skips tests when features are disabled.
20:54 theorb Hm, a couple problems with skip, though...
20:54 theorb 1) My test code has to keep checking with every test if $*PUGS_HAS_HSPLUGINS.
20:55 theorb 2) They constantly show as skipped on the testgraph.
20:55 boogie Memory game's source code has been added to the SVN repository...
20:55 Corion theorb: No. skip 4, "$feature not implemented"; exit. And yes, they show on the test graph, which is my intention (for diagnosing)
20:55 ninereasons yay, boogie++
20:56 theorb Mmm, OK.
20:56 Corion ... because if you think you have hs-plugins, and you see the skips, you should start to wonder
20:56 * shapr skips and hops
20:56 Corion theorb: Later we should get SKIP: { ...; skip; ... }; # like we have in Perl5
20:57 theorb Hm, should we have a skip_rest that skips all of the tests that the plan says we should have left?
20:57 Corion theorb: That'd be nice, yes.
20:59 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
21:01 jabbot pugs - 2132 - The first web application... ;)
21:01 stevan boogie++
21:03 theorb Wow.  Test.pm has a global variable named "$loop", uncommented.
21:05 stevan we should make all those $globals into $GLOBALS
21:08 dakkar has quit IRC ()
21:13 Corion g'night
21:13 Corion has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]")
21:14 osfameron has quit IRC ("Leaving")
21:14 theorb G'night, ... oh, already missed him.
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22:11 jabbot pugs - 2133 - Test::skip_rest (thus far undocumented),
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22:15 ninereasons night, mj
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22:21 jabbot pugs - 2134 - * restore IMC to a runnable state
22:31 jabbot pugs - 2135 - * restore Eclipse sanity.
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