Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-04-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:01 bsb has left
00:13 Limbic_Region what is the p6 way to get the index of the last element of an array (in p5 $#array) ??
00:16 mugwump @array.count or something
00:17 metaperl has joined #perl6
00:18 Limbic_Region you mean @array.elems ?
00:18 mugwump sure, or +@array
00:18 Limbic_Region either way - it doesn't sound like $#array
00:18 Limbic_Region my $last = @array.elems - 1; # seems wrong
00:19 mugwump hmm, wouldn't that be:
00:19 mugwump my $last = @array[+@array-1]
00:20 mugwump or just:
00:20 mugwump my $last = @array[-1]
00:21 Limbic_Region no - don't want the value of the last element
00:21 Limbic_Region want the index
00:21 Limbic_Region p5's $#array
00:21 mugwump ok
00:21 Limbic_Region what I am using right now is my $last = @array.elems - 1; # seems wrong
00:22 mugwump @foo.end
00:22 mugwump from S02
00:23 Limbic_Region salamat
00:24 * mugwump pulls the latest pugs version to see if .end is in it
00:24 Limbic_Region doesn't appear to be implemented yet
00:25 mugwump care to add a test for it?
00:25 mugwump I'll try my hand at the implementation
00:25 Limbic_Region mugwump - as soon as I am finished writing my purty code
00:25 mugwump ok
00:25 Limbic_Region theres another thing that doesn't quite work right yet either
00:25 Limbic_Region my @foo = grep defined, @bar;
00:25 Limbic_Region my @foo = grep { defined } @bar;
00:25 Limbic_Region those two don't work
00:26 Limbic_Region my @foo = grep { defined $_ } @bar; # does work
00:27 Limbic_Region on the other hand
00:27 Limbic_Region my @foo = grep defined(), @bar; # appears to be working
00:29 mugwump add a test for it somewhere, if you can
00:29 Limbic_Region mugwump - just installed Pugs for the first time - my very first p6 program - give me a chance to catch up
00:29 Limbic_Region :P
00:29 rafl has quit IRC (No route to host)
00:30 mugwump cool.  sure, take your time.
00:34 wolverian Limbic_Region: grep EXPR, LIST; is invalid in perl6
00:34 wolverian Limbic_Region: the only form is grep BLOCK LIST; (and the method form of course)
00:35 Limbic_Region thanks wolverian
00:35 Limbic_Region now what about array slices?
00:36 wolverian what about them?
00:36 mugwump Detailed in S06
00:36 mugwump oops, not 6
00:37 mugwump S09
00:37 wolverian (if grep defined(), @bar; works in pugs, it's a bug)
00:37 Limbic_Region appeared to work - it didn't
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00:38 wolverian ah, good.
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00:49 gantrixx will the final implementation of perl6 be written in Haskell?
00:51 wolverian no. it will be written in perl6.
00:51 wolverian see http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/docs/01Overview.html
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00:53 gantrixx OK, so let me understand something....when it says "The Perl 6 compiler needs to be written in Perl 6 itself", I assume they mean Parrot=Perl6 compiler, correct?
00:53 mauke no, parrot is the perl6 interpreter
00:53 wolverian no.
00:53 wolverian parrot is the VM.
00:53 stevan gantrixx: we are using haskell to bootstrap the perl6 compiler
00:54 gantrixx OK, I see
00:54 wolverian (and JITter)
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01:06 Limbic_Region should last if defined @subset[ $pos ];
01:06 Limbic_Region work?
01:07 Limbic_Region mugwump - you still around?
01:08 Limbic_Region mugwump ping
01:12 scw autrijus: did I do that? @@ # 03:59 < autrijus> scw: why did you remove output/fp/fp.
01:13 Limbic_Region http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=451398  # YEAH, my first p6/pugs code
01:13 mugwump Limbic_Region: pong
01:13 scw autrijus: I'll check..
01:13 Limbic_Region mugwump - going to write the @array.end test - should I email it to you?
01:13 Limbic_Region I don't have commit access
01:14 Limbic_Region I also need to know if:  last if defined @subset[ $pos ]; # should work?
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01:16 scw autrijus: r2316.. I don't remember doing that, might be some missuse of svk, i think
01:17 ninereasons Limbic_Region, I believe that that's proper p6, but 'if' occuring in that pattern is broken right now.
01:17 Limbic_Region also - while ( my @combo = $next() ) { # doesn't appear to work
01:18 Limbic_Region I have to do:  my @combo;  while ( @combo = $next() ) { # to get it to work
01:19 ninereasons if rewritten "if defined @subset[ $pos ] { last } # this will work, I think.
01:19 ninereasons and the second one will probably be written "while $next() -> @combo {...} " # look equivalent?
01:19 Limbic_Region that's what I did ninereasons
01:20 * Limbic_Region didn't think of that - let me try it
01:20 Limbic_Region choked on that too ninereasons
01:23 Limbic_Region ok - so the 3 things I found is no @array.end,  last if defined @array[ $index ], and while ( my @array = $ref() ) { ... }
01:23 stevan Limbic_Region: I can set you up with commit access :)
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01:23 stevan Limbic_Region: next, and redo dont work yet I was thinking of writing tests for them myself, but you can if you want :)
01:24 stevan oh wait,.. misread your comment
01:24 Limbic_Region stevan - not tonight
01:24 stevan while (my @array ... wont work because my currently is only suppoted outside of expressions
01:24 Limbic_Region yeah - I worked around it
01:24 stevan Limbic_Region: want commit access though? it only takes a second
01:25 stevan and doesnt hurt at all
01:25 Limbic_Region no - because then I will be responsible for checking stuff in
01:25 Limbic_Region let me ease into this
01:25 * Limbic_Region just installed Pugs and wrote his first p6 program tonight
01:25 stevan LOL
01:25 Limbic_Region http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=451398
01:25 stevan do you have SVN
01:25 Limbic_Region svk
01:25 stevan then checking in is very simple :)
01:26 stevan I would like you to check in this code to examples
01:26 Limbic_Region alright
01:26 stevan email addy?
01:26 Limbic_Region you tell me how and I will be much obliged
01:26 Limbic_Region [email@hidden.address]
01:26 stevan Limbic_Region: I would be glad too
01:27 * Limbic_Region is known meatspace as Joshua Gatcomb btw
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01:28 stevan whoops looks like someone tripped over the ethernet cord at castorbaways house :)
01:28 Limbic_Region heh
01:29 stevan Limbic_Region: your invite is in the mail
01:30 * stevan goes to see how to checkin with svk now :)
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01:31 stevan looks like you just mv the file into examples/
01:31 stevan then svk add examples/<filename>
01:32 Limbic_Region I will be prompted for user/pass?
01:32 stevan then 'svk ci' to commit locally, and 'svk push' to send it up to openfoundry
01:32 stevan Limbic_Region: yes, I think it will ask when you try to commit
01:32 stevan (at least that is how SVN works)
01:32 Limbic_Region alright - should it just go under examples?
01:32 stevan sure
01:33 stevan and dont forget to add yourself to the AUTHORS file
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01:35 Limbic_Region do I add a comment - I got a notepad window up
01:35 * Limbic_Region assumes it is for the log
01:35 stevan yes, anything you like :)
01:35 stevan yup, for the log
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01:36 Limbic_Region goes before the === Targets to commit line?
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01:37 stevan I am not sure i understand what you are asking?
01:37 Limbic_Region not working WRT to username
01:37 Limbic_Region don't worry about it - I will figure it out
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01:37 stevan ok
01:38 cls_bsd has joined #perl6
01:39 * Limbic_Region assumes USERNAME is taken from ENV and just fakes it for now
01:39 stevan probably a good assumption, but I cannot say since I use SVN and not SVK
01:39 stevan although I have been meaning to get around to using SVK
01:40 gaal has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:40 Limbic_Region grrr - bad assumption
01:41 mugwump it should prompt you for a username once the first try fails
01:41 Limbic_Region ;-)
01:42 ninereasons that's what happens in svn, anyway.
01:42 Limbic_Region ok - it appears svk ci did more than commit locally
01:42 Limbic_Region can someone tell me if it worked
01:42 Limbic_Region ;-)
01:43 ninereasons svk log ?
01:43 stevan Limbic_Region: it worked
01:43 Limbic_Region cool
01:44 stevan but you didnt add yourself to AUTHORS
01:44 Limbic_Region but I forgot to add myself to the AUTHORS file
01:44 stevan :)
01:44 stevan feel free to write your name in Tagalog too :)
01:46 ninereasons stevan, is the while loop going to use an arrow for assingment, just like the for loop does?
01:46 mugwump while loop using arrow for assignment?  eh?  :)
01:46 stevan ninereasons: not sure
01:46 mugwump you mean the -> $x {  } block syntax?
01:46 stevan mugwump: I think he means topicalization
01:47 ninereasons yes, mugwump
01:47 ninereasons right.
01:47 ninereasons toc
01:47 Limbic_Region ok - well, that's it for me tonight
01:47 stevan Limbic_Region: welcome aboard :)
01:47 Limbic_Region I will summarize the things I want that don't currently work and possibly write tests for them tomorrow
01:47 mugwump Limbic_Region: did you commit a test for .end?
01:47 Limbic_Region no mugwump - I asked you about it earlier - no response
01:48 Limbic_Region and then stevan conned me into get commit access
01:48 jabbot pugs - 2347 - Generate lists powerset in progressive o
01:48 jabbot pugs - 2348 - Forgot to update AUTHORS file
01:48 Limbic_Region but I am out of time now
01:48 mugwump sure... be sure to commit it when you can!  :)
01:49 Limbic_Region I will likely make it available here for someone else to commit since I won't be able to from work
01:49 Limbic_Region so it would have to wait until tomorrow evening
01:49 Limbic_Region and tomorrow evening is busy - final walk through (closing on house on Wednesday)
01:51 stevan Limbic_Region: what better way to celebrate your new home then by commiting tests to Pugs :)
01:55 Limbic_Region http://use.perl.org/~Limbic%20Region/journal/24371 # summary of tests that I am going to attempt to write tomorrow
01:55 Limbic_Region and on that note - TTFN all
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01:56 ninereasons what do you think, mugwump ? is it going to be "while (my $var = something() ) { ... } " ; or will it sometimes make sense to say, while something() -> $var { ... } ; ?
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01:57 wolverian for something -> $var { ... }, I'd say
01:58 mugwump but, that will only call something() once
01:58 jabbot pugs - 2349 -
01:58 jabbot pugs - 2350 - implement @array.end
01:59 wolverian and lists are lazy..
02:01 mugwump ok, from S04:
02:01 mugwump for =something() -> $foo {  }
02:02 mugwump a nice little higher order for loop for you :)
02:03 ninereasons there, I see it: " while =$*IN -> $line {...}"
02:03 * mugwump nods
02:04 mugwump looks like both for and while can be used like that
02:05 ninereasons I like that.  the arrow is very "act upon" implying
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02:05 mugwump very ruby-esque
02:06 mugwump (not the arrow, but the form)
02:06 ninereasons I wouldn't know.  but there I hear that there is much to admire in ruby.
02:06 ninereasons s/there//
02:07 mugwump indeed
02:07 * mugwump & # meeting
02:07 ninereasons s/to admire/to steal/
02:07 ninereasons :-)
02:30 obra autrijus++
02:30 obra autrijus++
02:30 obra autrijus++
02:30 obra make smoke: real    4m37.942s
02:30 obra genuinely 50% faster than 48 hours ago
02:31 stevan obra: what revision are you running?
02:32 stevan I am getting seg faults for everything
02:32 stevan (I just rm-ed src
02:32 stevan so that might help)
02:33 obra stevan: head
02:34 stevan hmm, ok maybe I had some bad stuff in src/
02:35 ninereasons I also was getting segfaults in everything until I removed the src/ directory, stevan
02:36 stevan ninereasons: good to know :)
02:36 stevan I think make clean is not cleaning up enough
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02:43 mugwump Gosh, BrowserUk on perlmonks is so full of shit
02:44 Khisanth the guy that can't admit he is wrong? :)
02:44 mugwump his mind is as open as a amish woman's legs
02:45 mugwump s/a /an /
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02:46 Khisanth are you sure you know amish women well enough?
02:46 mugwump heh.  Well, I don't "know" any ;)
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03:28 jabbot pugs - 2351 - remove non-working sub
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03:38 jabbot pugs - 2352 - more refactoring for the tic-tac-toe
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03:55 gantrixx so, is pugs a compiler?
03:55 mugwump yes
03:56 mugwump and an interpreter.
03:56 mugwump what are you really asking?  :)
03:56 gantrixx pugscc is the compiler and pugs is the interpreter?
03:56 gantrixx I'm wondering how I can write perl6 code
03:57 gantrixx I assumed I would be able to #!/usr/bin/perl6 and it would be automatically compiled and interpreted by parrot
03:57 gantrixx or I was hoping
03:57 mugwump you'll need to set up a symlink for that to work
03:58 gantrixx I see what was installed, but I don't understand how to use pugs
03:58 mugwump `pugs' can be used like `perl'
03:58 mugwump actually running via parrot (rather than just pugs) is an `experimental' option of pugscc
03:59 gantrixx ok, great
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04:00 gantrixx so when I use pugs, it's not using parrot at all?
04:00 mugwump not yet / by default
04:01 gantrixx but I can compile into parrot with pugscc --parrot ?
04:01 mugwump yes, that should leave you with parrot bytecode
04:02 gantrixx ok, let me figure out how to get parrot to interpret it
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04:10 gantrixx ok, so out of pugscc, am I expecting a source.pasm file?
04:11 gantrixx I get an .imc file
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04:15 mugwump oh, ok.  maybe imcc will give you the .pasm or .parrot file
04:15 mugwump I'm not sure, I thought that "just worked", looking at the pugscc script
04:16 gantrixx sorry guys, I feel like an idiot asking all these questions
04:16 gantrixx well I get a .imc file, but it is 0 length
04:16 gantrixx but I was able to get the #!/usr/bin/pugs thing to work
04:17 mugwump ok.  does pugscc --runparrot work for you?
04:17 gantrixx let me try
04:17 gantrixx I still get a 0 length .imc file
04:18 mugwump it must be failing without raising an error, then :(
04:18 jabbot pugs - 2353 - * avoid name clash by renaming fp/ into
04:18 jabbot pugs - 2354 - * point-free the .end implementation for
04:19 gantrixx I've done pugscc --run --parrot test.p6, pubscc --runparrot test.p6
04:19 gantrixx both result in a 0 length test.imc
04:19 gantrixx should the output be an .imc file?
04:19 ninereasons pugscc --runparrot -e 'say "hello"' # gives me a.pir
04:20 ninereasons parrot a.pir # prints "hello"
04:20 gantrixx I get a.imc
04:20 gantrixx and it is 0 length
04:21 gantrixx I have pugs 6.2.0
04:21 ninereasons mine is r2350;  maybe that's it
04:21 ninereasons 6.2.1
04:32 ninereasons gantrixx, I had some cleaning out of my own to do;  I now get a *.imc file when I run pugscc
04:32 gantrixx ok, well now I get a non-0 lenght .imc file
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04:32 ninereasons pugscc --run --parrot examples/mandel.p6; # produces mandel.imc
04:32 gantrixx but it it only compiles a simple "hola mundo" program
04:34 mugwump not all pugs AST nodes have IMC written for them yet
04:34 gantrixx pugs: Cannot compile: App "&elems" [Var "@array"] []
04:34 gantrixx this is the error I get
04:34 gantrixx so maybe that corresponds to what you said
04:35 ninereasons pugs -e "my @a = 1..3; say @a.elems " ; # what do you get if you say this at the command line
04:36 gantrixx 3
04:37 gantrixx In my program I simply have "my @array = ( "red", "blue", "green", "white", "black" ); print "There are " ~ @array.elems ~ " elemements\n"; "
04:38 gantrixx it works if I use #!/usr/bin/pugs
04:38 gantrixx but I can't compile it with pugscc
04:39 ninereasons sorry - i was distracted; you answered my next question
04:40 ninereasons are you able to run the mandel.p6 example, gantrixx ?
04:40 gantrixx when I do a #!/usr/bin/pugs it is actually compiling it first and then feeding it to the pugs interpreter, right?
04:40 gantrixx let me try the fractal example
04:41 gantrixx mandlebrot seems to work
04:42 gantrixx and I can do a "parrot mandel.imc" and it works fine also
04:43 ninereasons you can see how much faster parrot is than pugs, by running that script with pugs for comparison
04:43 gantrixx ok, let me mimic some of the stuff in the mandel.p6 script
04:43 gantrixx and see if I can get my little test to work
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06:37 Khisanth I really hope perl6 is going to be easier for highlighters ... at the very least for text editors written in perl6
06:39 castaway1 ,)
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06:52 nothingmuch i think it's going to be much harder
06:52 nothingmuch macros are no fun
06:52 nothingmuch new infix ops that affect parsing
06:53 nothingmuch i think an editor without an embedded p6c couldn't do it
06:53 nothingmuch that aside: good morning
06:53 nothingmuch by new infix ops - i mean ones the user defines
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06:56 castaway mornin nothingmuch
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08:08 osfameron eek!
08:08 osfameron foo (3) + 4;    # foo(7)
08:09 osfameron where is the rtfm that explains why this is a good idea?
08:10 castaway (3) is just a mathematical expression that reduces to 3, would be my guess
08:10 castaway (ie its being clever in context)
08:11 castaway hm, although I suppose its a question of precedence
08:12 osfameron the counter example is:
08:12 osfameron foo(3) + 4;    # foo(3)
08:12 pjcj that's always been slightly dodgy ground in perl5
08:12 osfameron where because there's no whitespace the parens surrounds the function's arguments entirely
08:13 osfameron I think I've converted to javascripty () for arglists ;-)
08:15 castaway hmm, significant whitespace is indeed somewhat odd
08:18 Khisanth unavoidable
08:20 castaway It isnt, just make people add parens where the meaning is ambiguous, like in math
08:20 castaway foo (3) + 4 -> foo(3); foo (3+4) -> foo(7)
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08:22 Khisanth what is foo (3+4) + 4? :)
08:24 Khisanth castaway: having significant whitespace is not as bad as having exceptions to rules
08:24 Juerd castaway: No, those are both foo(7)
08:24 Juerd Khisanth: foo(11)
08:25 Juerd castaway: The () for function calls is not the same () you use for precedence grouping
08:25 Juerd castaway: The () that is part of the sub call syntax works like subscripting [] or {}
08:25 Khisanth we need a bigger keyboard with more brackets :)
08:26 Juerd castaway: whitespace disallowed, unless you add a dot
08:27 Juerd castaway: The rules change consistently from Perl 5 to Perl 6: in Perl 5 you could use whitespace with all three of postcircumfix (), [] and {}.
08:27 castaway Juerd, that was just my opinion of how it would make sense to me
08:27 osfameron is the reason for this documented somewhere?
08:27 Juerd osfameron: I don't know. It's easier to re-explain than to find it in the docs
08:28 osfameron ah!
08:28 Juerd osfameron: for @foo { ... } needs whitespace
08:28 Khisanth the problem with "add parens where the meaning is ambiguous" is that it leads to lisp :)
08:28 Juerd osfameron: And given $foo{ ... } is incomplete, needs a block, because $foo is used as a hashref
08:28 Juerd osfameron: So the rules for subscripting need to change to disallow whitespace
08:29 osfameron ok, I'm fairly happy with the subscripting stuf
08:29 Juerd osfameron: This applies to postcircumfix () as well, which is syntactically just subscripting
08:29 osfameron oh
08:29 Khisanth Juerd: what would @foo{...} get mistaken for?
08:29 Juerd osfameron: Which finally makes it newbie-friendly
08:29 osfameron Juerd: `foo (3+4) + 5` is not osfameron-friendly
08:29 Juerd (And Juerd-friendly, because it will now behave the way I had always expected... The problem is that different people expect different things from this. Some expect Perl 5 behaviour, some want the Perl 6 way)
08:30 * castaway hmms and shrugs, cos she doesnt generally put spaces between funcnames and parens anyway
08:30 Juerd Khisanth: hash deref on @foo
08:30 Juerd Khisanth: It's entirely okay to implement a postcircumfix {} operator for arrays if you want to.
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08:30 Khisanth oh that is going to make for some fun mistakes that work even though it wasn't intended
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09:13 * castaway struggles to build PAR .. anyone ever try that on HP-UX ?
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09:32 Juerd castaway: I get the feeling HPUX was never meant to be used :)
09:32 castaway hmm, according to the docs its supposed to work on HP
09:33 castaway regardless of your feelings, people use it.
09:37 Juerd It's that way with many things
09:37 Juerd Like bondage SM
09:37 Juerd I think it's not human and can't possibly be pleasant, but there are indeed people who practice it.
09:39 draven_ Juerd: you are weird :p
09:40 bsb Anyone run pugs under ghci?
09:41 * Juerd whips draven_
09:42 Juerd Do you like that?
09:42 * draven_ jizzes on juerd.
09:42 Juerd Don't do that.
09:42 draven_ :D
09:42 draven_ you started it :p
09:43 draven_ actually, I'm not into submission
09:43 draven_ <g>
09:43 * castaway concludes shes running the wrong ld, since it doesnt like the options that perl -V suggests were used on build
09:43 Juerd Then this beautiful leather dog collar is not for you.
09:44 Juerd No {J} for you.
09:44 draven_ Juerd: guess not.
09:44 Juerd draven_: But your nice is lcfirst.
09:44 Juerd draven_: Don't mislead people like that.
09:44 draven_ is now known as Draven
09:44 Draven better?
09:44 theorbtwo has joined #perl6
09:45 Juerd Draven: Well, if you're dominant, it suits better.
09:45 Draven mhm
09:45 Draven Juerd: for someone who doesn't understand why people would like it, you sure know alot about it :)
09:45 Juerd I've hosted an IRC server for some bdsm channels
09:45 Juerd Learned quite a lot about their customs :)
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10:14 pasteling "bsb" at 203.214.67.82 pasted "hasktags Makefile.PL patch" (21 lines, 609B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9660
10:14 bsb does that patch look harmless?
10:14 metaperl has joined #perl6
10:14 bsb I don't want to make a mess
10:21 theorbtwo Looks good to me, bsb.
10:22 bsb happy day
10:22 bsb ghci -isrc src/Main.hs ./src/pcre/pcre.o src/UnicodeC.o
10:23 bsb isn't going to work tonight so I'll leave that
10:25 theorbtwo Try make ghci.
10:28 bsb GHCi runtime linker: fatal error: I found a duplicate definition for symbol
10:28 bsb   blkcmp
10:28 bsb whilst processing object file
10:28 bsb   src/UnicodeC.o
10:28 jabbot pugs - 2355 - $ENV{HASKTAGS} override
10:28 theorbtwo Nod, didn't think that'd work either.
10:28 theorbtwo But it was worth a try.
10:29 bsb ta
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12:02 * nothingmuch just helped someone install ubunto on top of colinux
12:02 nothingmuch with a rootless xwin
12:02 nothingmuch trés cool
12:02 nothingmuch works very well
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12:19 castaway whats colinux ?
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12:21 decay castaway: http://www.colinux.org/
12:22 * castaway can talk in urls too :)
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12:28 decay castaway: not much more to say about it, it works quite ok
12:29 castaway well, you could give a brief synopsis for lazy people :)
12:29 decay think of a user mode linux running on windows
12:30 castaway hmm, interesting.. I wonder how/why they got further than plex86, who seem to have given up
12:33 decay well, it's not a virtual machine if i understand that correctly
12:34 castaway I'm not at all sure what "cooperatively alongside" means..
12:36 theorbtwo It looks very nifty.
12:36 theorbtwo Your real machine runs both windows and linux at the same time.
12:37 theorbtwo It's somewhere inbetween a virtual machine like vmware, qemu, etc, and a dual-boot computer.
12:38 decay it's more like the uml linux kernel which runs in userland
12:38 decay i think they do not 'emulate' a machine in there.
12:38 castaway what does "at the same time" mean?
12:38 decay castaway: it runs as a process
12:39 castaway I mean, I understand the text, but it doesnt sound possible
12:39 castaway a Windows process?
12:39 decay castaway: sure
12:39 theorbtwo Apparently it is.
12:39 castaway (a kernel process, a cpu process ?)
12:39 decay castaway: we have some boxes here running 32 uml linux kernels in userland
12:39 * castaway has never been to userland :)
12:40 decay castaway: a process as seen by windows xp, a program
12:40 castaway ah, so it is running "under" windows
12:40 decay yes
12:40 castaway Ok, I wouldnt define that as "alongside"
12:41 decay castaway: if you're interested in that you might take a look at xen
12:42 decay castaway: which runs them 'alongside', though it's specially adapted OS versions/kernels running where with support for virtualized hardware
12:42 Limbic_Region ok - so after stevan rooked me into commit access, I need to write some tests for some features I found lacking
12:42 Limbic_Region any guide to writing tests?
12:42 castaway Test::Tutorial ? or p6 ones in particular ?
12:43 Limbic_Region p6 ones specifically
12:43 Limbic_Region like for instance - @array.end is missing - where do I add it
12:44 gaal_ t/README
12:44 gaal_ and welcome :)
12:44 castaway I think thats mostly up to intuition, I dont think theres a roadmap
12:44 Limbic_Region thanks gaal - did you see my powerset in progressive order example?
12:44 chady has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
12:45 gaal_ no, i wasn't around most of today - where is it?
12:45 Limbic_Region there is also one thing I forgot to add to the list in my journal of things that didn't work as I expected.  my $foo = sub returns List { ... }
12:45 Limbic_Region examples/progressive_powerset.p6 or powerset_progressive.p6 - not sure which
12:46 Limbic_Region you can assign an anonymous sub to a scalar but you can indicate what it returns (currently)
12:46 * castaway guesses "t/builtins/arrays
12:46 Limbic_Region thanks castaway
12:46 * Limbic_Region hugs castaway
12:48 castaway and possibly 'end.t' since strings/ has a whole bunch of files named after operations that can be done on them
12:49 Limbic_Region .end isn't for arrays only?
12:49 * Limbic_Region had already planned on naming the test end.t btw
12:49 castaway :)
12:50 castaway no idea, but looking at the t/ layout, if it turns up in multiple places, you eitehr create 2, or make something like arrays_and_hashes
12:50 castaway (although that may be interaction-of, not shared-funcs
12:51 * castaway could also be FOS ,)
12:58 Limbic_Region ok - so can I email t/builtins/arrays/end.t to someone with commit access - I can't commit from work
12:58 autrijus why?
12:58 autrijus this is HTTP port 80
12:58 autrijus your company isn't DAV aware?
12:58 autrijus rehi lambdacamels, btw.
12:58 castaway its an autrijus!
12:58 Limbic_Region autrijus - company = U.S. Government
12:59 autrijus Limbic_Region: hm. so, it's a policy problem, not a technical one?
12:59 Limbic_Region and I forgot to burn a copy of GHC/Pugs/svk to bring in this morning anyway
13:00 autrijus you can always DAV mount using Win32 web folder and just copy your files there... :)
13:00 autrijus but sure, nopaste the code and I'll commit for you
13:00 Limbic_Region autrijus - all HTTP traffic goes through a proxy that is monitored
13:00 Limbic_Region perlbot nopaste
13:00 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
13:01 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "t/builtins/arrays/end.t" (34 lines, 662B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9662
13:03 autrijus Limbic_Region: committed (and it all passes)
13:03 autrijus thanks!
13:03 Limbic_Region walang anuman
13:03 Limbic_Region so it is already implemented?
13:04 autrijus sure
13:04 autrijus I think mugwump did it
13:04 autrijus right after your request
13:04 autrijus which is usual around here
13:04 Limbic_Region out of curiosity, what does @foo.end return if all of the elements are shifted off (i.e. does it give -1)
13:04 autrijus -1 surely
13:04 autrijus pugs> ().end
13:04 autrijus -1
13:04 * Limbic_Region should have included that as a test
13:05 castaway You didnt? :)
13:05 autrijus    my @array = ();
13:05 autrijus    is(@array.end, -1, 'we have an empty list');
13:05 autrijus I think it's good enough
13:05 Limbic_Region castaway - I wrote a test for initializing empty - not returning to empty
13:06 Limbic_Region autrijus - did you get a chance to see http://use.perl.org/~Limbic%20Region/journal/24371
13:06 Limbic_Region beyond the 4 that I mentioned, my $foo = sub returns List { ... }; # doesn't work either
13:07 Limbic_Region was wondering which would be considered low hanging fruit so that I could write some more tests
13:08 autrijus ok...
13:08 autrijus I think I fixed your #2
13:08 autrijus would be wonderful if there's a test
13:08 jabbot pugs - 2356 - C* @array.end tests, from Limbic_Region
13:10 Limbic_Region autrijus - run http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=451398 and tell me if it works - if so, it worked for sure
13:11 autrijus looking
13:11 Limbic_Region I will start looking at any existing tests for last and supplement in the interim
13:12 autrijus Limbic_Region: it works
13:13 Limbic_Region good ;-)
13:13 * Limbic_Region thinks about p5 behavior WRT to last in a subroutine and wonders if the behavior in p6 has been defined
13:14 theorbtwo Larry's example code uses the p5ish behavior to next to the next canidate in something like multimethod dispatch, IIRC.
13:16 Limbic_Region theorbtwo - what I mean is when you f'up and put last to exit a sub (p5 let's you do it but issues warnings)
13:17 * Limbic_Region still hasn't found any existing last tests
13:17 autrijus Limbic_Region: I'm not sure that
13:17 autrijus while (my $foo = ...) { ... $foo ... }
13:17 autrijus works
13:17 autrijus can someone find a reference?
13:18 jabbot pugs - 2357 - * `last if foo` is now parsed always as
13:18 jabbot pugs - 2358 - * much better error messages overall.
13:18 jabbot pugs - 2359 - * remove mention of DynamicLoader
13:18 Limbic_Region autrijus - the alternative would be while ( $ref() -> @foo ) { ... } right
13:19 autrijus huh?
13:19 autrijus no
13:19 Limbic_Region like a for loop?
13:19 autrijus my $foo; while $foo = blah() { ... }
13:19 autrijus or
13:19 autrijus while my $foo = blah() { ... };
13:20 Limbic_Region so things like while ( my $line = <FH> ) { ... } # won't work anymore either?
13:20 autrijus but never
13:20 autrijus while (my $foo = blah()) { ... };
13:20 machack666 has joined #perl6
13:20 autrijus er nvm
13:20 autrijus () is not {}
13:20 autrijus so it does work
13:20 autrijus but it doesn't work like you think it does
13:20 Limbic_Region doesn't
13:20 autrijus because the my() scope extends to outward
13:20 Limbic_Region ok - so educate me
13:20 autrijus sub bar { while (my $foo) {...} ; say $foo }
13:20 machack666 @array.end == -1 seems like bad behavior to me, or at least unexpected behavior
13:20 autrijus is legal!
13:21 autrijus machack666:
13:21 autrijus $ perl -e 'die $#array'
13:21 autrijus -1 at -e line 1.
13:21 machack666 perhaps it should return undef
13:21 Limbic_Region machack666 - p5 behavior
13:21 machack666 never used @#array
13:21 machack666 :)
13:21 autrijus Limbic_Region: the point is there's no implicit blocks
13:21 castaway autrijus: can I bug you about some of your p5 modules? :)
13:21 autrijus so the my() always terminates to the next }
13:21 machack666 I fuess if there's a precident
13:21 autrijus castaway: sure
13:21 autrijus Limbic_Region: as such, talking about my() in while () conditions is likely to be not very precise
13:22 Limbic_Region autrijus - I am fine with learning new syntax
13:22 autrijus see p6bible s04
13:22 autrijus grep for "while my"
13:22 Limbic_Region ok
13:22 Limbic_Region will do
13:22 castaway The first is Module::ScanDeps.. which is supposed to not list Core modules per default, yes? I'm using 5.6.1 and its listing Storable, and MIME::QuotedPrint ..
13:22 castaway .. on HP-UX11 .. any idea why?
13:23 Juerd p6l++, especially luqui++
13:23 Juerd # clear and useful answers
13:23 castaway It's also listing XML::Parser which I'm fairly cerain I'm not using (but am using XML::Simple and XML::SAX)
13:23 machack666 perl -e '$ar[$#ar]=1;print @ar'
13:23 machack666 Modification of non-creatable array value attempted, subscript -1 at -e line 1.
13:23 autrijus castaway:
13:23 autrijus Storable  was first released with perl 5.007003
13:24 autrijus MIME::QuotedPrint  was first released with perl 5.007003
13:24 autrijus so.
13:24 broquaint IIRC, while my $foo = bar() { ... } still works as expected since while will be a funky statement/macro dealie so that $foo is scoped to the block.
13:24 autrijus broquaint: s04 contradicts with you :)
13:24 * castaway goes back to check
13:24 broquaint Damn synopses ;)
13:24 autrijus (The "while"’s declaration of $line con‐ tinues to be visible past the end of the block.  Remember, no implicit block scopes.)
13:25 castaway well I suppose that explains that bit, I'm just daft..
13:25 Limbic_Region so the bottom line is that it requires additional typing
13:25 castaway any idea about the XML::Parser one?
13:27 * broquaint hopes placeholders will replace loop variables in terms of programming practices
13:27 autrijus I think it does recursive dep
13:27 autrijus and XML::Simple depend on ::Parser
13:27 Limbic_Region autrijus - know a reference off the top of your head that says no implicit block scopes?  I am ashamed to admit that other than an initial read on release, I am not overly familiar with the As/Es/Ss
13:27 autrijus Limbic_Region: install Perl6::Bible
13:27 autrijus and "p6bible s04"
13:28 autrijus read "The Relationship of Blocks and Declarations
13:28 castaway no, it doesnt depend on it
13:28 castaway It likes XML::Parser if present, if not, then not
13:28 castaway (and I'm using XML::SAX as the parser)
13:28 castaway or do: http://tnx.nl/S04
13:28 Limbic_Region autrijus - thanks - I just needed to search for implicit in s04
13:29 autrijus oh. scandeps has no notion of optional dependency.
13:29 castaway hmm, damn
13:29 castaway so attempting to 'par' that up would fail ?
13:29 autrijus hm?
13:30 autrijus if your system has no XML::Parser, par will just ignore that
13:30 castaway par uses ScanDeps to figure out what to pack, no?
13:30 autrijus and hope you know what you're doing
13:30 castaway well it does, but I dont want it :)
13:30 autrijus oh.
13:30 Limbic_Region autrijus - so there should be a way to declare formal parameters and achieve the same thing as my right?
13:30 Limbic_Region while $ref() -> @foo { ... }
13:30 castaway I'm attempting to figure out what a customer machine would need, and the fact that our internal dev machine has XML::Parser in its site_perl is irrevelant
13:31 castaway In theory I'd like to say 'use perls std path but my site_perl only'
13:31 machack666 Is "closure traits" the terminology for ENTER {...}, PRE {...}, POST {...}, etc?
13:31 castaway anyway, since my other problem is that PAR is failing to compile, thats partly irrelevant too :)
13:31 theorbtwo autrijus: Are you interested in an alternative to ScanDeps that does live dependencies?
13:32 theorbtwo It's fairly easy to write using coderefs in @INC.
13:32 machack666 me: yes
13:32 Juerd Limbic_Region: Interesting syntax
13:32 Limbic_Region or rather while = $ref() -> @foo { ... }
13:32 Juerd Huh?
13:32 Limbic_Region Juerd - looking at S4
13:32 Juerd I could follow the previous syntax - it puts the condition into @foo
13:32 Juerd But this?
13:32 Limbic_Region the closest example of what I want is
13:33 machack666 What is the support status of the various closure traits?
13:33 Limbic_Region while =$*IN -> $line {...}
13:33 Juerd Limbic_Region: $ref() now returns an iterator?
13:33 Juerd Limbic_Region: And isn't it rather weird to have a sub return the same iterator more than once?!
13:33 Limbic_Region Juerd - no, it returns a list
13:33 autrijus theorbtwo:
13:33 autrijus scandeps has that mode.
13:33 Juerd Limbic_Region: while's condition is executed before each iteration
13:33 autrijus scandeps -c
13:33 autrijus scandeps -x
13:34 autrijus using perl -c and perl, respectively
13:34 Limbic_Region right
13:34 theorbtwo Oh.
13:34 Juerd Limbic_Region: So it returns a new list each time, which each time is converted to an iterator, which you kick only once.
13:34 Limbic_Region Juerd - see http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=451398
13:34 Limbic_Region I am trying to get my cake and eat it to (like I did in p5)
13:34 Arathorn has joined #perl6
13:34 Limbic_Region while ( my @foo = $ref->() ) { ... }
13:35 * Juerd never gets the cake references
13:35 machack666 machack666: no support for BEGIN {...}, so I'd guess that none are supported.
13:35 Juerd Limbic_Region: That should work,
13:35 Limbic_Region not according to autrijus and possible S4
13:35 Juerd Limbic_Region: I think your mistake is calling your iterator "next". That's misleading.
13:35 Limbic_Region no implicit block scopes
13:35 Juerd Or assuming that iterators are coderefs
13:35 autrijus Limbic_Region: it works
13:36 Limbic_Region as of when?
13:36 autrijus I'm just saying that the @foo will be visible post the {...}
13:36 autrijus which is likely bad
13:36 Limbic_Region didn't work last night when I was trying it
13:36 autrijus i.e. not what you expect
13:36 Limbic_Region no autrijus - it didn't work at all
13:36 autrijus er. I was donning my p6l hat.
13:36 * autrijus switches to the p6c hat
13:37 autrijus it's not yet implemented, but if you write a test, sure, it will work in a matter of minutes!
13:37 castaway -c and -x seem to compile&inspect %INC .. AND do static scanning.. which is not v. useful IMO
13:37 autrijus castaway: patches.... welcome :)
13:37 Limbic_Region well what I am really interested in is figuring out how to do it properly in p6
13:37 castaway autrijus: no time :)
13:37 * castaway points at theorbtwo
13:37 autrijus (it fits my use case)
13:38 Limbic_Region basically, loop until the function being called each time returns undef
13:38 autrijus if you are using PAR
13:38 autrijus try
13:38 autrijus pp --exclude XML::Parser
13:38 autrijus and see if that works
13:38 autrijus it may or may not.
13:38 castaway autrijus: that was the pther problem: par wont compile for me, I get ld errors
13:38 Limbic_Region put the result of that function in a formal parameter or whatever so that I can use it inside the loop
13:38 autrijus I think it does, but that part of my code
13:38 autrijus castaway: really. platform?
13:38 castaway HP-UX11
13:39 autrijus that's a new one.
13:39 autrijus try [email@hidden.address]
13:39 castaway I have a sneaking feeling its a wrong ld tho, it chokes on options that perl -V claims to have used.
13:39 castaway but the fun bit is the:
13:39 Limbic_Region do you have to be subscribed to p6.l to post to it?
13:40 castaway ld: Unsatisfied symbols:
13:40 castaway   $global$ (data)
13:40 castaway mm, could do that..
13:42 Juerd Limbic_Region: Nafaik
13:42 Juerd Limbic_Region: It's common for Perl lists that you can post to them and read them without being subscribed
13:42 autrijus but then you will wait for moderation
13:42 xerox
13:42 * castaway asks the same question for [email@hidden.address] (subscribe compulsory?)
13:43 Juerd
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13:43 autrijus castaway: no, I don't think so
13:43 autrijus all @perl.org follows the same process
13:43 Juerd autrijus: That's strange, as my messages appear almost instantaneously and I send mail from another address than is subscribed
13:43 autrijus afaict
13:44 machack666 has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:48 Limbic_Region ok - email sent to p6.l
13:49 Limbic_Region I am off for a bit, will write some more tests later - thanks everyone
13:51 * castaway sends a mail full of make output and perl -V to [email@hidden.address] ..
13:51 Limbic_Region oh - before I go, if someone wants to ping me with the location of any existing tests for "last", I will supplement them with the changes autrijus made to make last if defined @array[ $index ]; work
13:52 * castaway goes back to doing things my hand (darn HP-UX)
13:54 * autrijus purrs
13:54 autrijus I hear HP-UX is even deader than AIX
13:55 castaway heh, everyone says that whenever I mention it
13:55 castaway still, customers are still picking it
13:58 castaway So this is an odd form of "dead"
13:58 autrijus undead then
13:59 autrijus the undead OS that roams the earth
13:59 Jonathan_ has joined #perl6
13:59 castaway Personally, from this perspective, it looks alive and kicking.
13:59 theorbtwo That's one awful big zombie process, autrijus.
14:00 autrijus :D
14:00 Arathorn i thought irix was the undead OS that roams the earth..
14:01 stevan Limbic_Region: ping
14:01 stevan morning all :)
14:01 Limbic_Region pong
14:01 stevan Limbic_Region: there was some next and last tests in t/data_types/array.t
14:02 stevan but I removed them last night because they were a little odd
14:02 stevan I was thinking of doing some of that today
14:02 stevan but you can if you like :)
14:02 Limbic_Region no - go for it
14:02 Limbic_Region I will supplement if you miss the ones I am thinking of
14:03 stevan Limbic_Region: oh wait,.. sorry it was in t/statements/for.t
14:03 stevan Limbic_Region: if you want to paste your thoughts, that might help me get started :)
14:03 Limbic_Region well - last shouldn't be tied to a specific control block
14:03 Limbic_Region two thoughts
14:04 Limbic_Region last if <condition>;
14:04 Limbic_Region <condition> and last;
14:04 Limbic_Region last <label>;
14:04 stevan (i figured once I got for.t done, i would do while.t, loop.t etc
14:04 Limbic_Region i.e. variations of last where it isn't the only statement on the line
14:04 Limbic_Region and then last from a sub
14:05 stevan from a sub?
14:05 Limbic_Region in p5 it will let you do it but issue warnings - not sure what the p6 behavior should be
14:05 Limbic_Region right - it is a mistake and probably shouldn't be supported
14:05 Limbic_Region but WTF am I to make that call
14:05 stevan I think last, next, redo are only allowed in loops, but I will check the syns
14:05 stevan if ever you are in doubt, read your bible (perl6::bible that is)
14:05 Limbic_Region ok - so I am off again, I will look at anything you come up with and supplement if needed
14:06 * autrijus joins the bible thumping
14:06 ihb has joined #perl6
14:06 stevan Praise @larry!!!
14:06 stevan can I get a witness!!!!
14:06 autrijus Hosanna!!
14:06 autrijus hmm
14:06 autrijus BEGIN{} is only allowed as rhs?
14:07 autrijus $ perl -e 'BEGIN { $_ } = 3'
14:07 autrijus syntax error at -e line 1, near "} ="
14:07 * Limbic_Region doubts his email is going to make it to p6.l without being subscribed as it is probably being held for approval or was filtered as spam (that happens a lot from his yahoo account)
14:07 stevan autrijus: thats just weird code IMHO
14:07 theorbtwo Limbic_Region: I talked to Ask about this once -- the first time you post from any given address, if it is not subscribed, it will be human-filtered, but then it goes on a domain-wide whitelist.
14:08 autrijus yes.
14:08 theorbtwo autrijus, what would the semantics of BEGIN as a LHS be?
14:08 autrijus theorbtwo: I don't know.
14:08 autrijus so I'm coding it as rhs only
14:08 autrijus we need BEGIN to properly support a number of things
14:08 autrijus say foo(); sub foo { 3 }
14:08 autrijus being one
14:08 autrijus although personally I don't use that often
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14:25 Arathorn probably a silly question, but: has anyone thought about accessing the Apache API through pugs?
14:25 Arathorn i.e. mod_pugs, i guess
14:26 jhorwitz arathorn: mod_parrot will handle it for you once the parrot compiler backend is complete
14:27 stevan there is also mod_haskell IIRC
14:27 Arathorn that makes sense, i guess
14:27 stevan do we have labeled blocks in perl6? I cant seem to find them in the Synopsis
14:27 Arathorn would be slightly surreal to have to compile your perl down to bytecode before it runs
14:28 metaperl has joined #perl6
14:28 jhorwitz arathorn: mod_parrot won't require you to do that
14:28 Arathorn it'll automatically compile up the bytecode on demand, a la a servlet container?
14:29 jhorwitz assuming there's a registered compiler for the language.  i imagine there will not be one for pugs to begin with, but certainly for perl6.
14:30 Arathorn sexy, then :)
14:30 jhorwitz fyi, http://losser.st-lab.cs.uu.nl/mod_haskell -- looks like it's been collecting dust for a few years.
14:32 * Arathorn browses view-cvs for mod_parrot
14:33 jhorwitz arathorn: make sure you're looking at the right one -- http://www.smashing.org/mod_parrot
14:33 jhorwitz ask's old version can sometimes pop up on google
14:34 * Arathorn is flicking through http://svn.perl.org/viewcvs/parrot-modules/mod_parrot/trunk/
14:34 Arathorn which looks like your handiwork :)
14:34 jhorwitz ya  :)
14:34 Arathorn (at least judging by the Author column)
14:35 Arathorn have you thought much about how parrot would work with the threading fun & games for the more exotic Apache 2 models?
14:35 Arathorn (apologies if this is more #parrot related)
14:37 rafl has quit IRC (No route to host)
14:37 jhorwitz parrot's model is one interpreter per thread, which is fairly straightforward to deal with.
14:39 jhorwitz so like mod_perl, we pick from a pool of available parrot interpreters
14:39 * Arathorn nods
14:39 autrijus woot!
14:39 Arathorn would those parrot interpreters share any bytecode memory footprint?
14:39 autrijus jhorwitz: so, all syms has to be explicitly shared via pmcs
14:39 autrijus which is a good thing
14:40 autrijus bwahaha
14:40 autrijus I implemented BEGIN{} in no time
14:40 autrijus out-of-sequence sub{} coming right along
14:40 autrijus "BEGIN" -> do
14:40 autrijus    env <- getState
14:40 autrijus    return . Val . unsafePerformIO $ do
14:40 autrijus        (`runReaderT` env) $ (`runContT` return) $ resetT $ do
14:40 autrijus            evl <- asks envEval
14:40 autrijus            evl (Syn "()" [Val code, Syn "invs" [], Syn "args" []])
14:40 * autrijus praises unsafePerformIO
14:42 * jhorwitz has a memory lapse and tracks down answers for autrijus
14:43 * Arathorn reads up on how mod_perl2 works before trying to understand mod_parrot :)
14:46 Arathorn ah, so only mutable data is duplicated between the parent & clone interpreters in mod_perl2
14:46 Arathorn very cool
14:47 autrijus it's also very slow on win32 ;)
14:47 Arathorn because perl_clone() doesn't work properly?
14:48 Arathorn i guess that screws up lazy-evalling tricks like the ones TT3 uses (iirc), too
14:48 autrijus stas has proposed a CLONE2 method
14:48 jhorwitz autrijus: yes, PMCs must be explicitly shared.  can't find a definitive answer on bytecode.  need to read more about interpreter cloning.
14:48 autrijus old pugs:
14:48 autrijus $ pugs -e 'say foo(); sub foo { 3 }'
14:48 autrijus No compatible subroutine found: &foo
14:48 autrijus App "&foo" [] []
14:48 autrijus as of 10 seconds ago:
14:48 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'say foo(); sub foo { 3 }'
14:48 autrijus 3
14:49 rafl has joined #perl6
14:49 theorbtwo Woo!
14:50 autrijus turns out we don't need the costly refactor of Rule into Eval monad ;)
14:51 autrijus because you can freely enter that monad by saying something like
14:51 autrijus unsafePerformIO . runContT . runReaderT
14:51 autrijus or some other order
14:51 nothingmuch has quit IRC ()
14:53 Arathorn hm, 15,632 unread mail in Lists.mod_perl - i've been away too long :\
14:54 petdance has joined #perl6
14:55 petdance Can I come in here?  I don't know Haskell.
14:55 theorbtwo Certianly, petdance.
14:56 theorbtwo ...and we can work on fixing that oversight.
14:56 jhorwitz petdance: join the club. ;-)
14:56 autrijus greetings petdance!
14:56 autrijus if you don't know haskell
14:56 autrijus you need to know unit testing!
14:57 autrijus I don't think we need to fix _that_ for you :)
14:57 petdance I'm REALLY interested in Parrot's internals.
14:57 petdance the C code behind it.
14:57 autrijus oh. irc.perl.org has a #parrot
14:57 autrijus featuring Leo occasionally
14:57 autrijus who is more qualified than anyone here to talk about parrot internals :)
14:58 petdance I just wnana make sure the C code is happy and consted.
14:58 petdance like I've been doing with the p5 guts.
14:58 jabbot pugs - 2360 - * BEGIN blocks now works!
14:58 petdance and, really, autrijus++ Bravo for all the JFDI you've managed to corral.
14:59 autrijus =)
15:00 autrijus consted?
15:00 q[acme] petdance: i haven't really been following, but is this so that the C compiler can pick up bugs?
15:02 chady has joined #perl6
15:04 * Steve_p pets petdance
15:04 stevan Steve_p: did I see you were going to take on Test::Tutorial??
15:05 xern has joined #perl6
15:05 justatheory has joined #perl6
15:06 stevan morning petdance :)
15:06 Steve_p stevan, yes, I be starting to revise it shortly.  First pass is to get what's there working.
15:06 stevan Steve_p: you are a brave soul :)
15:07 autrijus $ pugscc --parrot -e 'BEGIN { say "Compiling!" }; say "Running!"'
15:07 autrijus *** Using the 'Parrot' backend.
15:07 autrijus Compiling!
15:07 autrijus *** Generated output: a.imc
15:07 autrijus $ ./a.imc
15:07 autrijus Running!
15:07 stevan weird, but very cool :)
15:08 autrijus :)
15:08 autrijus so, BEGIN{} is now freely usable
15:08 autrijus I'll implement "use" now.
15:08 stevan autrijus: maybe you know this, do we have labels in perl6? I cant find it in the synopsis?
15:08 autrijus stevan: no idea
15:09 stevan I will keep searching then, and if all else fails go to p6l
15:09 broquaint Do we know if use/require behave like their p5 counterparts and interpret magic in @INC?
15:09 autrijus k.
15:09 autrijus broquaint: I don't know.
15:10 broquaint I think it's to be defined in a future Apoclaypse ...
15:10 broquaint Yah, looks like it.
15:11 Steve_p stevan, I love the footnote "The first number doesn't really mean anything, but it has to be 1. It's the second number that's important."
15:11 * jhorwitz wants subs for the parrot backend, but haskell IQ is too low.  :(
15:12 gantrixx has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
15:13 stevan Steve_p: :)
15:13 chady has quit IRC ("leaving")
15:14 stevan Steve_p: all due respect to the Schwern, but that tutorial just confused me the first time I read it
15:15 boogie has joined #perl6
15:15 stevan Steve_p: IMHO it should just start with Test::More and leave historical Test.pm and Test::Simple as footnotes
15:15 stevan hey boogie
15:15 gaal_ hey all
15:15 boogie hi stevan. :)
15:15 stevan hey gaal_
15:16 gaal_ stevan, hola.
15:16 stevan boogie: with all the pugs speedups in the past few days, your CGI will likely work much smoother
15:16 boogie stevan: yes, I'm checking it now. :)
15:16 autrijus gah
15:16 autrijus *Main> eval "my $x; BEGIN { say $x }"
15:16 autrijus this breaks
15:16 * gaal_ smokes a pug
15:16 autrijus so I broke everything :-/
15:17 autrijus gaal_: it will be 100% fail
15:17 autrijus no need to
15:17 * gaal_ puts out the smoke
15:17 * autrijus rethinks the strategy
15:17 * autrijus concludes there's no way around that bug except to do everything correctly
15:17 autrijus i.e. properly implement the pads for parser
15:18 boogie stevan: do you know something about why CGI/examples/test.p6 fails? it seems to me, that after sending the form, it's going to an endless loop
15:18 boogie stevan: it's the same with the memory game, too.
15:18 jabbot pugs - 2361 - * separate lhs from rhs closure traits
15:18 broquaint Don't think like that, autrijus, there's a hack for *everything* ;)
15:18 stevan boogie: to be honest, I haven't looked at CGI in a little while
15:18 petdance q[acme]: Yes, so the C compiler knows "That pointer's contents are not modified"
15:18 elmex has joined #perl6
15:19 boogie stevan: then I'm going to debug it. ;)
15:19 petdance For instance, if you have   int strlen( char *str )
15:19 petdance then the C compiler doesn't know that the contents of str don't get modified.
15:19 petdance So char *p = NULL; strlen( p ); looks to C like you could be initiliazing it
15:19 petdance OTOH, if it's int strlen( const char *p );
15:20 Steve_p stevan, I don't want to get too complex and skip Test::Simple.  To be honest, people get confused with Test::More.  Unless you are an alpha geek, I don't want to push them.
15:20 petdance then char *p; strlen( p ); is obviously a problem.
15:20 petdance How do people get confused w/test::more?
15:20 stevan Steve_p: I wonder if you introduce it right, it might not be an issue
15:20 Steve_p For example, I explained to a guy yesterday how to install modules by hand.  He's been programming with Perl for three+ years
15:21 stevan Steve_p: how has he been doing it? CPAN?
15:21 Steve_p Oh, I'll introduce along the lines of "See how all your ok()'s work fine with Test::Simple.  OK, just change that to Test::More now :)"
15:22 Steve_p ...and then explain what more they can do with Test::More
15:22 Steve_p stevan, only with CPAN.  
15:22 stevan Steve_p: I wonder if that is not more confusing though? Because you have to do backflips with Test::Simple::ok to tests anything complex
15:23 * stevan queues turns up "Dog and Pony Show" so petdance can hear too
15:25 * Limbic_Region got impatient and subscribed to p6.l from his seldom used gmail account
15:28 petdance stevan: I have a swell live version of it from last year's ATP.
15:28 petdance I'd like to get rid of the Test::More/Test::Simple distinction.
15:29 Steve_p So just start with Test::More
15:29 stevan thats my vote :)
15:30 ninereasons has joined #perl6
15:33 autrijus ok. the fix is in
15:33 autrijus r2362
15:33 autrijus any smokers?
15:33 autrijus this has the effect of moving all declarations to compile time
15:34 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'use Test; ok 1'
15:34 autrijus ok 1
15:34 autrijus 1..1
15:34 autrijus it works now
15:35 autrijus if that is verified as working
15:35 autrijus please someone do a global s/require Test/use Test/
15:35 autrijus thanks!
15:37 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'ok(1); require Test'
15:37 autrijus *** Error: No compatible subroutine found: &ok at -e at line 1, column 1
15:37 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'ok(1); use Test'
15:37 autrijus ok 1
15:37 autrijus 1..1
15:38 jabbot pugs - 2362 - * repair pad declarations... that makes
15:38 jabbot pugs - 2363 - * use() now happens at BEGIN time.
15:39 stevan autrijus: I will take care of the require Test -> use Test
15:39 stevan autrijus: will use work in an eval? In other words can I implement a proper use_ok()?
15:40 autrijus yes, and yes
15:40 autrijus lol
15:40 autrijus $ perl -e 'eval "use Test"; ok(1)'
15:41 autrijus ok: plan before you test! at -e line 1
15:41 autrijus I stared at it for a few seconds
15:41 autrijus unable to make any sense
15:41 autrijus then I rememberd:
15:41 autrijus $ pugs -e 'eval "use Test"; ok(1)'
15:41 autrijus ok 1
15:41 autrijus 1..1
15:41 stevan :)
15:41 autrijus it's scary how the availability of the "use" statement suddenly makes pugs much more perllike in my mind.
15:42 Juerd grin
15:42 Juerd Does it have "no" yet?
15:42 gaal_ preluding Test would speed up the smoke somewhat
15:43 gaal_ r2363 smoke in progress
15:43 autrijus gaal_: actually, no, we need compilation
15:43 autrijus storing a Test.imc alongside Test.pm
15:43 gaal_ for test rteliability?
15:43 autrijus gaal_: no, "pre" compilation :)
15:43 gaal_ am i gaal_?
15:43 autrijus or even a Test.pbc
15:43 gaal_ is now known as gaal
15:44 gaal great, now there are two of me.
15:44 * theorbtwo wonders if require should really import "is export" subs.
15:45 autrijus theorbtwo: currently "is export" is ignore
15:45 autrijus as we don't have namespaces yet ;)
15:45 * boogie says: I've found a strange bug in Pugs...
15:45 autrijus i.e. it's merely future proofing
15:45 gaal heh :)
15:45 boogie it will run forever with the latest SVN version:
15:45 gaal autrijus, any thought on hackarounding runInteractiveCommand's usage of an opaque process handle?
15:45 boogie sub test2 ($param) { return $param; }
15:46 autrijus gaal: huh?
15:46 boogie sub test1 { my ($key); $key = test2($key); }
15:46 boogie test1;
15:46 gaal i want open-pipe to give a pid
15:46 gaal but runInteractiveCommand returns the tuple (stdin, stdout, stderr, prochande)
15:46 gaal where the last element is not a pid :)
15:46 autrijus boogie: verified. take away the return() and you're fine
15:47 autrijus why do you want a pid
15:47 gaal p5 open| returns one
15:47 boogie autrijus: is it a bug?
15:47 autrijus boogie: yes
15:47 autrijus gaal: I say we return an opaque object.
15:47 autrijus called a Process or something
15:48 autrijus that supports .kill
15:48 gaal i'm not sure the haskell Process handle supports kill - unless i'm mistaken that's only available in System.Posix..Process
15:48 gaal and runInteractiveCommand(/Process) is in System.Process
15:49 gaal and there's no way to extract a pid - no way that i foudn in the docs at least
15:49 gaal didn't dive into the soureces yet.
15:50 gaal anyway, int he unix world it makes perfect sense to have a pid
15:50 gaal even if it's not as encapsulated as a handle, that's what everything *is* eventually
15:50 autrijus hm you can terminateProcess
15:51 gaal and i can imagine some applications actually needing it
15:51 autrijus yeah.
15:51 gaal what abotu arbitrary signalProcess? you can't do that.
15:51 gaal it's true that on win32 you want a process handle which isn't a pid...
15:52 autrijus yeah.
15:52 autrijus cross platformness is a pain :-/
15:52 gaal perhaps we should indeed return an opaque handle, and add deep ugly methods that meddle with the haskell internals on each platform.
15:52 gaal ....to return a pid when you want one
15:52 gaal etc.
15:52 autrijus *nod*
15:53 autrijus at the worst case
15:53 autrijus you can write the neccessary C code by hand
15:53 autrijus to emulate platform specific behaviour
15:53 autrijus and inline them via FFI
15:53 autrijus that's how pugs swapped out its entire Char class
15:53 autrijus via Unicode.hs
15:54 gaal for the whole thing (eg replace runInteractiveCommand), or just the pid accessors?
15:54 autrijus the pid accessors
15:54 autrijus and before you know, your code will be in GHC core :)
15:54 gaal :)
15:54 autrijus (like Unicode.hs now is)
15:54 gaal pugs.exe: examples/fp/fp.p6: openFile: does not exist (No such file or directory)
15:55 autrijus fixed
15:55 alinbsp has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:55 gaal smoke up in a minute
15:55 autrijus hopefully not too red
15:55 * autrijus braces for impact
15:56 broquaint has quit IRC ("REBOOT!")
15:56 gaal anyone have any luck compiling  p5.8 on msys btw? it's really sad having 5.6.1 w/o cpan :(
15:57 gaal http://forum2.org/gaal/pugs/smoke-msys.html
15:57 gaal my network setup has begun sucking, so i can't actually view that myself :)
15:57 autrijus 10 unexpected successes!
15:58 gaal ah, a firefox restart helped.
15:58 autrijus must be doing something correct
15:58 autrijus help me untodo?
15:58 autrijus I'll investigate the red
15:58 jabbot pugs - 2364 - * fix example path
15:58 gaal what color is unex success? :)
15:58 gaal nm, i'll peek in the yaml
15:58 autrijus yellow
15:59 gaal k, i'll do that, sed.
15:59 gaal s/d/c/
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16:04 gaal funny, in undef.t, when using prove, the two yellow tests fail.
16:04 chady has joined #perl6
16:04 stevan gaal: did you make install? it might be using an old version?
16:04 autrijus yup
16:04 gaal i never made install :)
16:06 gaal oh! but it is some funny path issue, because from a different shell it works as expected.
16:06 stevan a fresh 'make optmized' pugs makes me sooo happy :)
16:08 stevan the require -> use change seems to be working fine, so I will be commiting it once this test run is done
16:08 stevan then i /have/ to do some perl5 work :(
16:08 gaal t/syntax/lf_in_list.t in particular is happy :)
16:13 gaal r2365 += 10 passing tests
16:14 integral changes topic to: pugscode.org <Overview Journal Logs> | smoke/win2k (occasional): http://xrl.us/fqum (4537/8, r2343), Mac OS X (62/4506, r2362), Linux (60/4482, 2267) | pugs.kwiki.org
16:15 Arathorn are thoughts on threading in pugs completely on hold under @larry pitches up with some stone tablets on the subject for parrot?
16:15 gantrixx has joined #perl6
16:15 autrijus well we have async {}
16:15 * Arathorn is trying to imagine how much data would get shared (if at all) between threaded parrot VMs in a mod_parrot + Apache2 Worker MPM situation
16:15 autrijus if you want a set of semantics
16:16 autrijus please write up a synopsis draft
16:16 autrijus check in under docs
16:16 gantrixx is there a problem with the ghc yum repository?
16:16 gantrixx it seems to lock up on me when I try to install
16:16 * Arathorn will go check out async {} then :)
16:16 Arathorn thanks
16:16 autrijus ch.17
16:16 autrijus # http://svn.perl.org/perl6/doc/trunk/plans/design_docs.pod
16:16 autrijus if you want to work on S17 :)
16:16 * Arathorn nods.
16:16 autrijus Arathorn: we are using 5005 model now
16:16 autrijus that will change.
16:17 Arathorn oh, okay
16:18 chady has quit IRC ("leaving")
16:18 jabbot pugs - 2365 - unTODO unexpectedly passing tests
16:21 autrijus lexical context is now restored!
16:21 autrijus we may finally have some semblance of context
16:21 autrijus r2366. resmoke?
16:21 gaal on it
16:21 autrijus danke
16:23 stevan r2367 - require Test -> use Test
16:25 stevan autrijus: I just encountered a very odd bug
16:26 stevan pugs -e 'my $x = 0; say "before $x"; for 1 .. 5 { next if $_ > 3; $x = $_; } say "after $x";'
16:26 stevan dies with Error: cannot next() outside a loop
16:27 autrijus next() is utterly broken.
16:27 autrijus we don't have that yet.
16:27 autrijus neither redo().
16:27 autrijus both are TODO
16:27 petdance has left "Leaving"
16:27 stevan ok
16:27 stevan well the odd things is it worked when I evaled it
16:28 cognominal_ has joined #perl6
16:28 stevan (I am trying to get a command line test to work)
16:28 jabbot pugs - 2366 - * restore lexical context.
16:28 jabbot pugs - 2367 - changing all occurences of require Test
16:28 stevan perlbot nopaste
16:28 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
16:29 gaal autrijus, i want to return four values from a prim. it's an internals-use-only prim, so i'm okay doing it positional, at least for now. my question is just, how do i return a perl-boxed version of a haskell ProcessHandle?
16:29 gaal sorry, you didn't need the whole introduction to that Q :)
16:29 pasteling Someone at 67.186.136.119 pasted "This fails: stevan% pugs -e 'm" (24 lines, 551B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9671
16:30 stevan that paste is mine :)
16:31 autrijus gaal: look at AST.hs
16:31 autrijus see VSocked
16:31 autrijus VSocket
16:31 xerox ve
16:31 autrijus and VThread
16:31 gaal ....of course, we can keep a global map inside pugs and onlty return a key :)
16:31 xerox Whoops, sorry.
16:31 autrijus then cargo cult
16:31 gaal most of my haskell is cargo cult ;)
16:32 autrijus stevan: error did not propagate up for.
16:32 autrijus I mean, `for`.
16:32 autrijus ./pugs -e 'for 0..10 { 1/$_ }'
16:33 stevan strange :/
16:33 autrijus no, it's just a bug :/
16:33 autrijus let me add a trapVal
16:33 stevan ok
16:35 gaal http://forum2.org/gaal/pugs/smoke-msys.html r2367
16:36 gaal ooh, 1 more unexok!
16:37 autrijus and a lot more successes
16:38 adehohum has joined #perl6
16:38 autrijus stevan: oh, no that is not the prob
16:39 autrijus there is no bug her
16:39 autrijus here
16:39 autrijus stevan: next() was simply not invoked.
16:39 osfameron has quit IRC ("Leaving")
16:39 autrijus when $_ is <= 3.
16:40 gaal autrijus, why did you need to implement instance Ord VSocket? where are sockets ordered?
16:40 autrijus stevan: your sweeping 'use' change overwrote some of my fixes.
16:40 autrijus gaal: all Val must be ordered because they can be in an array
16:40 autrijus and we need to sort it.
16:41 adehohum Hi guys, is there an FAQ on how to submit new tests? I'm sure there's going to be something on the NNTP archive somewhere...
16:41 autrijus gaal: this req will go away when we move to opaque obj
16:41 autrijus adehohum: yes, read t/README :)
16:41 gaal autrijus, then how come VThread doesn't do that? a bug?
16:42 autrijus gaal: I think thread already derive ord
16:42 gaal ah
16:42 gaal ok, i think i see.
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16:44 adehohum OK, it doesn't say in the 6.2.1 readme, presumably the implication is that I should get the latest out of svn and read a more recent readme...
16:44 adehohum actally it says more or less "ask on #perl6" :)
16:45 autrijus yes :)
16:45 adehohum ok doke will do, thank you!
16:45 autrijus so, you begin by announcing what tests you are doing
16:45 autrijus then give me your mail addr
16:45 autrijus and I'll make you a committer
16:45 autrijus then you check in the test using svn or svk
16:45 autrijus that's all :)
16:45 adehohum I have had a go at subroutine parameter traits
16:46 adehohum so I've made t/subroutine/sub_parameter_traits.t (original huh)
16:46 adehohum and I'm [email@hidden.address]
16:47 stevan autrijus: so is the error propagating correctlly?
16:47 iblechbot has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
16:47 stevan ah, I see , the error is in $!
16:48 stevan ok I will  re-think my tests after lunch :)
16:49 autrijus stevan: so be sure to svn up
16:49 autrijus I reverted your time travels
16:49 autrijus r2368
16:50 stevan time travels?
16:50 stevan ahh, I see
16:50 autrijus stevan: your sweeping require->use change brought tests to several revisions ago
16:50 autrijus which would be a minor disaster if I don't have svk :)
16:50 autrijus but fortunately I do, so that's all fine
16:51 stevan thats odd, I svn uped right before I did it
16:51 autrijus weird. maybe you somehow touched the files in .svn
16:51 stevan oh, i see
16:51 autrijus adehohum: invitation is on its way to you
16:51 stevan I got r2365 then committed, which landed as r2367
16:51 autrijus welcome aboard!
16:52 autrijus no, that is not it
16:52 autrijus anyway, don't worry
16:52 stevan odd. ok, I will just rm -rf pugs and svn up to be sure
16:52 adehohum cool, thanks autrijus
16:54 gaal autrijus, heh, ProcessHandle really wants to be opaque: in the ghc implementation, it's ifdeffed as either a CPid or a Word32. in any case, it doesn't... uh, implement Show, so how do I get it to do Ord and even Eq?
16:55 gaal ...without hacking ghc itself of course
16:56 adehohum has left
16:56 autrijus uh
16:56 autrijus type VProcess = ProcessHandle
16:56 autrijus instance Show VProcess where show _ = "{process}"
16:57 autrijus instance Ord VProcess where compare _ _ = EQ
16:57 gaal a hardcoded string?
16:57 autrijus how else?
16:57 gaal doesn't that make all PHs equal?
16:57 autrijus only for sorting purposes
16:57 gaal hm
16:57 autrijus or you can say
16:57 autrijus compare _ _ = LT
16:57 autrijus or something. improvise
16:58 * gaal happily improvises. i hope sorting algos terminate though inlight of things that never sort :)
16:58 jabbot pugs - 2368 - * revert Stevan's time travel.
16:59 autrijus sure they do :)
16:59 autrijus (pugs uses mergesorting)
17:00 Corion has joined #perl6
17:00 autrijus yo
17:00 Corion autrijus!
17:00 gaal (wasn't there a segfault in perl once when user-defined comparators didn't satisfy some basic invariant?)
17:00 * Corion backloggeth
17:00 autrijus Corion: many exciting news!
17:00 autrijus use, BEGIN, last if 1;
17:00 Corion Yay. BEGIN is there!
17:00 autrijus gaal: that was when it's qsort
17:02 Corion BTW, there was a short idea of renaming LWP(::Simple) to something like Network:: or whatever. I'm bad at naming and don't think it's such a good idea, but others might have good ideas
17:02 gaal there's sure to be something better than LWP.
17:02 * Corion starts a smoketest
17:02 gaal what's bad about Network, anyway?
17:02 Corion gaal: I'm not convinced that Network:: is such a good name, especially for file:// URLs :)
17:03 autrijus file:// is also on the network.
17:03 autrijus I think Net:: is fine too, really
17:03 autrijus Network:: looks... haskellish
17:03 Corion But after I've read URI::URL, I wonder if Pugs shouldn't use file:// instead of File::Spec anyway... The smoke matrix generator still messes up links to synopses somewhere
17:03 autrijus Network:: System:: Control:: Data::
17:04 Corion I find that having Net:: and Network:: as two competing namespaces would be bad
17:04 autrijus nod.
17:04 Corion ... and Network:: just for LWP-stuff is also not good IMO
17:04 Corion ... because there will be other network stuff that does not fit well with LWP
17:05 metaperl_ has joined #perl6
17:05 gaal quick syntax Q: when i say data ... deriving ( ..), it's to *limit* what i derive, right?
17:05 metaperl_ Limbic_Region, I just saw your pm post of powersets... good job
17:05 wilx Hmm, iirc if you don't say that you don't derive anything.
17:06 wilx So it imho it is to enumerate what you derive.
17:07 autrijus gaal: no.
17:07 autrijus gaal: there are some derivable classes.
17:07 autrijus if you say deriving(), you automagically gain those instances.
17:07 autrijus but you can add more instances by using the `instance` directirve
17:08 autrijus you also need to add `instance Show Foo` by yourself if you want to customize how Foo is shown
17:08 autrijus `deriving (Show)`  means "somehow generate a Show instance for me"
17:08 jabbot pugs - 2369 - * add a line saying that smoke.html is s
17:08 Corion Aaah. That reminds me - I have to add another test for 1 % $x, where $x is not a VRat, but a VProxy pointing to a VRat. How do I create a VProxy in Pugs?
17:09 Arathorn ajs's mail on p6l in the 'thunking semantics of :=' thread is rather illuminating about p6 threading assumptions
17:09 Arathorn i guess ithreads are here to stay - but much lighter in parrot (at any rate)
17:11 PerlJam anything but pthreads
17:14 wilx What's wrong with POSIX threads? :)
17:14 autrijus Corion: my $x := rat
17:15 Limbic_Region thanks metaperl_ - it is all stevan's fault
17:15 metaperl_ one question: is "Ref" mean coderef?
17:15 metaperl_ you sub returns Ref
17:16 Corion metaperl_: It returns a reference then, obviously
17:16 metaperl_ you know multi subs might've been cleaner than a hash indexed by numbers
17:16 Corion "Code" would be a reference to code. "Ref" would be a reference to a reference.
17:16 Corion ... at least that's what Perl5 does.
17:19 Corion r2369 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
17:19 Corion ... some new failures, something seems to have broken compilation of some examples.
17:21 Corion Hah. My test code exhibits the bug, just as I suspected :( Where should I put number handling for VProxy objects ? Is there any central point that already handles this? Like op2Num ?
17:21 Limbic_Region metaperl_ - I thought about using multi methods, but the point was to show how easy it was to transition p5 to p6
17:21 * Limbic_Region is currently only half paying attention btw
17:22 Limbic_Region the returns <type> isn't even necessary btw - just showing off a bit
17:22 gaal argh, VProcess wants to do Typeable, but how do i get it to do that?
17:24 * Limbic_Region wanders off to get lunch
17:24 metaperl__ has joined #perl6
17:24 autrijus gaal: just deriving Typeable
17:25 gaal but it's a type, not a data .. er.. constructor
17:25 autrijus you can only derive classes for types.
17:25 autrijus in haskell, types belong to classes
17:25 autrijus not data
17:26 gaal should i do what's done for VRule?
17:26 autrijus yeah.
17:26 gaal k
17:26 autrijus well, you can also do
17:26 autrijus newtyp VProcess = MkProcess ProcessHandle
17:26 autrijus newtype VProcess = MkProcess ProcessHandle
17:26 autrijus    deriving (Show, Typeable)
17:27 autrijus or just derive typeable
17:27 gaal how do i then make it derive Typeable?
17:27 gaal ah ok
17:27 autrijus I think it gets done automagically.
17:27 mj has joined #perl6
17:28 jabbot pugs - 2370 - * add the "Pad" type to carry lexical pa
17:28 jabbot pugs - 2371 - * repair parrot
17:28 jabbot pugs - 2372 - * to get eval to work, use our() not my(
17:28 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
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17:33 autrijus Corion: oh, just to say: async.t worksforme
17:33 autrijus Corion: so I made the todo conditional to platform
17:34 Corion autrijus: Ah - I don't know if it worksforme now, but we'll see. I think async.t worksforme too, but async-sleep.t doesn't, which is no surprise.
17:35 Corion (smoke currently running)
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17:38 jabbot pugs - 2373 - * repair die.t by giving out sensible $!
17:38 jabbot pugs - 2374 - * async.t worksforme, so assume it's a w
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17:46 Corion ah, no - async.t "correctly" fails for me on Win32, as Haskell/GHC does seem to differentiate between userspace and OS threads there.
17:46 Corion r2373 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
17:53 autrijus Corion: I wonder if you change forkOS to forkIO
17:53 autrijus whether it would work
17:53 * Corion goes looking
17:54 Corion The code already does: (if rtsSupportsBoundThreads then forkOS else forkIO) -- so that's why it does work for you and doesn't for me ;)
17:55 autrijus right, so try forkIO for all
17:55 Corion autrijus: Just trying that ;)
17:55 Corion Hmmm. Still failing
17:55 autrijus keep it that way then
17:55 autrijus may be a win32 deficiency
17:55 autrijus does system+ithreads on win32 work?
17:56 autrijus in p5
17:56 autrijus I thought it blocks as well
17:56 Corion autrijus: I never tried/looked. Win32 has real threads, so iThreads should/could work. But who knows ...
17:56 * Corion reverts to rtsSupportsBoundThreads
17:57 autrijus I don't think it'd work... you can try with fork()
17:57 autrijus they are the same thing
17:57 autrijus so on win32, try fork, system() from one, and see if it blocks parent
17:58 jabbot pugs - 2375 - * fix a misuse of $in
18:00 gaal okay, i did some copycatting, but now saying "VProcess phand" to try and convery a ProcessHandle to a VProcess doesn't work:
18:00 gaal Couldn't match `VProcess' against `ProcessHandle'
18:00 gaal      Expected type: VProcess
18:00 gaal      Inferred type: ProcessHandle
18:01 autrijus gaal: VProcess is a newtype?
18:01 gaal how to i actually implement the cast?
18:01 gaal yes
18:01 autrijus you use MkProcess
18:01 autrijus VProcess (MkProcess phand)
18:01 chady has joined #perl6
18:02 gaal Is that a convention? by analogy, i'm looking for the definition of MkThunk and not finding it.
18:02 gaal unless it's instance Thunk.Class VThunk where force (MkThunk c) = c
18:02 ninereasons has quit IRC ("Leaving")
18:03 autrijus src/Pugs/AST.hs:newtype VThunk = MkThunk (Eval Val)
18:04 autrijus here MkThunk constructor has typ
18:04 autrijus MkThunk :: Eval Val -> VThunk
18:08 autrijus oh btw.
18:08 autrijus if someone is looking for small Parsec task
18:08 autrijus implementing #line would be fun
18:08 jabbot pugs - 2376 - * make progressive_powerset use some new
18:08 autrijus just parse for #line at Statement level
18:08 autrijus and use setPosition. that's all
18:09 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "wtf suddenly started happening? right after make clean" (6 lines, 322B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9672
18:10 autrijus gaal: no idea. (!)
18:10 autrijus try a clean build?
18:10 gaal i did!
18:10 gaal will clean-mightily the tree.
18:11 madhouse has joined #perl6
18:12 gaal oh: i see. 'make' w/o optimized is broken again.
18:13 autrijus you can't mix optimized with unoptimized.
18:13 autrijus but. journal up.
18:13 autrijus I'll sleep now. see ya!
18:13 gaal no, i just did 'make' w/o anything.
18:13 gaal night.
18:13 gaal thanks for the help!
18:14 autrijus &
18:14 autrijus gaal++
18:14 theorbtwo G'night, autrijus.
18:17 gaal src/Pugs/AST.hs:1:0:
18:17 gaal    Data constructor `Pugs.AST.Pad' is defined in the hs-boot file, but not in the module
18:18 gaal am i the only one gettign this?
18:18 gaal i'm hacking on AST but i don't think my changes relate to this.
18:18 gaal ah, sorry, actually they do
18:18 gaal cancel that
18:18 gaal :)
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18:24 nothingmuch anyone with windows around?
18:24 gaal me
18:24 nothingmuch could you reload that page, see that the PNG of the logo isn't fubar?
18:24 gaal it's not the same color as the rest of the banner, if that's what you meant
18:25 nothingmuch lighter? darker? white?
18:25 gaal you might wanna alpha-channel its background to avoid caring about that
18:25 nothingmuch i did, but IE displays it white
18:25 gaal it's lighter than the wine-red.
18:25 gaal ah, right, i forgot, ie sucks.
18:25 castaway yup
18:25 castaway oh, too slow
18:26 * castaway gives nm a linux-ie
18:26 gaal do the site in flash :-p
18:26 gaal what's a linux-ie?
18:26 gaal a linux that drinks stout? :)
18:26 nothingmuch fsck
18:26 nothingmuch gaal: or SVG (That's what the logo is in)
18:26 nothingmuch opera
18:26 nothingmuch why can't they properly support pngs?
18:26 nothingmuch i think i'll go for the javascript/png alpha hacks
18:26 castaway crossover office and IE
18:27 gaal ahhh
18:27 nothingmuch okay, back to alpha
18:28 nothingmuch looking good with khtml + ff
18:28 gaal no, have your page-generating script imagemagick the bg to the same color as the bg.
18:28 nothingmuch gaal: i did that, but then in one browser (i forget which) it's too dark
18:28 gaal yes, looking good now for me too (ff/win)
18:28 nothingmuch so then i came back to you, and you said 'too light'
18:28 nothingmuch so i checked with the other, and indeed it was
18:28 gaal urr? then don't pngcrush the image
18:28 castaway and opera ?
18:28 nothingmuch maybe someone is doing color "correction"
18:28 nothingmuch opera is for weenies
18:28 nothingmuch ;-)
18:29 nothingmuch could you guys check the png alpha stuff with opera/msie?
18:29 gaal you *could*, of course, make the whole banner an image :)
18:29 * castaway thwaps nm. ;)
18:29 nothingmuch eek
18:29 castaway url ?
18:29 nothingmuch i want alpha
18:29 gaal white on msie.
18:29 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/kelaa/demo/who_we_are.html.he
18:29 nothingmuch white... peh
18:29 gaal (View This Page in MSIE)++
18:30 nothingmuch okay, i'll copy a fix that tells msie to load it with the alpha blending image loader
18:30 gaal i have the weirdest bug in ff now, though.
18:30 gaal opening a new tab, the focus gets left behind in the last tab
18:30 gaal eg in an edit box
18:30 gaal instead of popping up to the location bar.
18:31 gaal also, quicksearch broke.
18:31 * gaal hates computers
18:31 castaway address unavailable
18:31 nothingmuch oi
18:33 nothingmuch gaal: could you reload with msie?
18:33 nothingmuch castaway: what does that mean?
18:33 castaway no route to host, generally
18:33 gaal i see no image at all now :)
18:33 nothingmuch huraah! problem solved
18:33 castaway *g*
18:34 gaal what, you just punt on the image for msie? that effectively means nobody will see it, you know
18:35 castaway ah, got it.. what am I looking for?
18:35 nothingmuch ok, how about now?
18:35 nothingmuch castaway: the logo on the top left
18:35 nothingmuch is it blended well into the red?
18:36 gaal ff good, msie white
18:36 * gaal looks for food. bbiab
18:36 castaway Im gonig to say yes, not that I know what that means : the background of it is all the same red as the top stripe
18:36 nothingmuch damnit
18:36 nothingmuch what msie?
18:37 nothingmuch castaway: yes, that is good
18:37 nothingmuch is the layout ugly somewhere?
18:37 castaway nope, looks lovely
18:37 castaway (Opera 8.0)
18:37 * nothingmuch likes it when browsers behave
18:37 * castaway too
18:40 nothingmuch gaal: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/pngtest.htm
18:41 gaal 6.0smth
18:41 nothingmuch does the solution fix the problem on that page?
18:43 gaal ah, it's js
18:43 gaal blocking that in msie
18:45 ninereasons has joined #perl6
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19:03 gaal ./pugs.exe -e 'my @r=Pugs::Internals::runInteractiveCommand("ls"); @r[1].readline.say' # works
19:04 gaal ./pugs.exe -e 'my @r=Pugs::Internals::runInteractiveCommand("cat"); say @r[0]: "moose"; @r[0].close; @r[1].readline.print' # also works
19:09 theorbtw1 has joined #perl6
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19:22 cognominal print my $a; # does not work. I would expect 'my' to work like a function as it does in Perl5
19:23 gaal cognominal: there's a comment in AST i think about how my should not be statement level :)
19:23 cognominal ho, I remember now. I already have raised the question.
19:24 cognominal sorry
19:24 perdix has left "leaving"
19:24 cognominal cool, "print %ENV" works now
19:26 gaal btw better call it %*ENV usually
19:26 nothingmuch gaal: did enabling js fix it?
19:26 gaal though %ENV ought to work too.
19:26 gaal nm, dunno, i didn't want to get sidetracked - it was disabled for a reason :)
19:26 gaal maybe there's someone else on windows online now?
19:27 cognominal only a obfuscator would define a package based %ENV...
19:27 cognominal in fact I would like a pragma to forbid that.
19:27 gaal gee, i wonder if there are any camelfolks who are also obfuscators :)
19:27 nothingmuch anybody with IE+JS want to be a guinea pig?
19:27 gaal "folks"? i can't type :)
19:30 Jonathan_ Obfuscation is fun. :)
19:31 cognominal Jonathan_: I know that, I maintain with BooK http://paris.mongueurs.net/aplusplus.html
19:31 cognominal I accept Perl6 submissions...
19:32 gaal asavige already has something amazing
19:32 gaal did you see it? it's somewhere in examples/
19:32 cognominal madgolfer.p6?
19:32 gaal yeah
19:33 gaal it's not an $A++ but it's still insane :)
19:33 cognominal :)
19:34 cognominal Andrew Savige is the auther of this $A++ :          $A-=$----$----$----$----$----!$-;
19:34 Jonathan_ Well, maybe I'll have to have a go at some..*after* the exams.
19:37 Jonathan_ BTW, my daily Pugs Win32 builds have been running smoothly for a few days now along with daily WinXP smoke testing results being put up.
19:37 Jonathan_ http://www.jwcs.net/~jonathan/perl6/
19:37 gaal cool
19:38 Jonathan_ Not sure if there's a list of smokes anywhere that it should go on or anything.
19:39 gaal see the /topic :)
19:39 gaal also, feel welcome to make sucha a list in the wiki
19:39 gaal actually, there *is* a list, but it's prolly out of date.
19:39 gaal feel free to update it then :)
19:40 Jonathan_ OK.
19:41 jhorwitz nothingmouch: still need that guinea pig?
19:41 gaal anyone here run make test on a machine with HT?
19:41 nothingmuch http://xrl.us/fv4x <-- add this too
19:41 gaal pugs doesn't go over 50% but i don't know if that means anything.
19:41 nothingmuch jhorwitz: yah
19:42 * gaal dislikes shortened URLs
19:42 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/kelaa/demo/who_we_are.html.he
19:42 nothingmuch is the PNG displayed properly when the js is fixed
19:42 nothingmuch Jonathan_: if you want to feed my ego place them in chronological order ;-)
19:43 Jonathan_ Am I missing something, or is the Pugs wiki not linked to from pugscode.org?
19:44 jhorwitz nothingmuch: white background
19:44 nothingmuch damnit
19:44 * nothingmuch curses microsoft for existing
19:44 nothingmuch ok, one more trial
19:44 gaal hard to curse something for not existing
19:44 nothingmuch ...
19:45 nothingmuch reload
19:47 gaal nm: is there any use for keeping a timestamp on every test in the tests.yml? just notices all this info
19:47 gaal makes it hard to diff
19:47 nothingmuch gaal: kungfuftr asked for that
19:47 nothingmuch i can take it out, make it optional, whatever
19:48 nothingmuch jhorwitz: any change?
19:49 jhorwitz nothingmuch: bingo
19:51 * nothingmuch utters "finally"
19:53 * Limbic_Region looks at lukes response to the while blocks and formal parameters question and tries really hard to understand but fails to do so
19:54 gaal just got the sleepies, so i ci'ed what i have
19:55 gaal if anyone wants to write tests for p5-like pipe open, or also open with explicit mode, please do so
19:55 gaal the implementation of both will be in perl6 on top of the new prims of r2377
19:55 * nothingmuch goes to write more money making projects =(
19:55 nothingmuch sowwy
19:55 gaal also if anyone wants to write an open3 wrapper... :)
19:56 gaal k, i'm off to bed. night all!
19:56 nothingmuch .... or better yet: port IPC::Run, and give it good pty support
19:56 nothingmuch ciao!
19:57 nothingmuch and write Expect, implemented with IPC::Run
19:57 gaal nm, tell me more, i''ll se about implementinf that
19:57 gaal oh
19:57 gaal maybe not :)
19:57 gaal later. zzz&
19:57 nothingmuch so that no one ever ever gets it wrong later
19:57 nothingmuch heh =)
19:57 Jonathan_ Added my tinder to the Wiki...any objections to me adding a link to my Win32 Pugs build on the PugsDownload page, provided I maintain it properly this time? :)
19:57 nothingmuch i think you can do it
19:57 nothingmuch ciao!
19:57 Jonathan_ bye gall
19:58 nothingmuch Jonathan_: yah, it's a wiki
19:58 nothingmuch do as you please =)
19:58 nothingmuch the more content the merrier, as long as it's not too much per page
19:58 jabbot pugs - 2377 - runInteractiveCommand and openFile primi
20:04 Jonathan_ Cool, it's in.
20:10 mj today test-diff http://wiki.kn.vutbr.cz/mj/index.cgi?diff_revision=1.7&amp;action=Diff&amp;page_id=Pugs+on+MS+Windows+-+actual+test+results&amp;current_revision=1.8&amp;last_revision=1.8
20:10 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("hometime")
20:11 nothingmuch mj++; # pretty
20:11 nothingmuch want to implement it a Test::TAP::Model visualizer?
20:11 nothingmuch Test::TAP::HTMLDelta?
20:14 mj diff plugin is old Kwiki best feature
20:14 mj no free time for Pugs this week, :-(
20:15 mj Wikipedia diff is the best, IMO.
20:17 ninereasons since somewhere around r2361, the shell version of pugs has not been working.
20:17 ninereasons sub hello ($x) { return "hello $x"; }
20:17 ninereasons say hello 'world'
20:17 ninereasons *** Error: No compatible subroutine found: &hello
20:18 ninereasons the same thing at the commandline works fine
20:18 ninereasons (or in a script, etc.) only broken in the shell.
20:18 madhouse has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:19 nothingmuch probably related to autrijus's work today
20:19 nothingmuch can you try to test it with gaal's patch?
20:19 nothingmuch open pipe to pugs
20:19 nothingmuch and then play with it's shell?
20:20 ninereasons nothingmuch, what/where is gaal's patch?
20:20 nothingmuch see backlog
20:20 nothingmuch i don't know the details
20:20 ninereasons ok, thanks.
20:20 nothingmuch but he asked for tests
20:21 * nothingmuch can't really look into it now =(
20:22 ninereasons that's okay, I'll take do the work :-)
20:25 Corion Grrr. People renaming files should check if they break some tests by it!
20:26 nothingmuch hola Corion
20:27 Corion Hi nothingmuch
20:29 cognominal http://rafb.net/paste/results/QihgyN66.html  # this is weird; a two dimensional array seems to be garbaged on return
20:30 dada has quit IRC ("carrions! carrions! all over the land!")
20:30 cognominal I can probably simplify it more
20:32 mj http://test.wikidev.net/Pugs_tests_result_diff_test?title=Pugs_tests_result_diff_test&amp;diff=0&amp;oldid=766
20:33 cognominal also what is the routine used to print in the read eval loop. It is better than a straight print
20:33 cognominal pugs> my @b = [ < 1 2 3 4 > ],  [ 5 ];
20:33 cognominal (('1', '2', '3', '4'), (5))
20:33 cognominal pugs> print @b
20:33 cognominal 12345bool::true
20:34 theorbtw1 print @b.perl
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20:35 cognominal thx
20:36 jhorwitz has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.2/20050317]")
20:37 cognominal poblem is that (('1', '2', '3', '4'), (5)) evaluates in a flat array...
20:37 cognominal bug!
20:38 jabbot pugs - 2378 - fp/ was renamed to functional/
20:38 jabbot pugs - 2379 - VProxy variables can cause a Haskell err
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20:43 Corion Is there any Sxx or Axx or Exx about $?CALLER::POSITION?
20:44 Corion ... I'm especially interested in the line/column position, as it seems to be one item off.
20:44 nothingmuch S06 i think
20:44 nothingmuch but not about POSITION
20:44 nothingmuch it's about CALLER::
20:44 nothingmuch $?POSITION is, afaict a pugs ext
20:44 Corion Ah...
20:45 Corion Anyway - some more failing tests committed, including one against the interaction between #line and $?CALLER::POSITION
20:45 Corion ... another smoke run whilst I'm away :)
20:48 jabbot pugs - 2380 - Added tests for $?CALLER::POSITION again
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20:55 mj g'night, http://test.wikidev.net/Pugs_tests?action=history
21:00 Corion ... and somebody, again, broke the automatic retrieval of the svn version into the Pugs build.
21:00 ingy_ has joined #perl6
21:02 mugwump witchhunt time!
21:02 mugwump hey ingy_
21:02 mugwump was it you?
21:02 ingy_ nosir
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21:07 mj has quit IRC ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
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21:13 mugwump ingy, I've got some more perldoc stuff, but I can't commit any more, I think because I never had an svn.kwiki.org account
21:21 ingy mugwump: msg me a passwd entry
21:22 ingy I'll give you commit access for Perldoc
21:24 QMario has joined #perl6
21:24 QMario Can someone tell me how I can get a value out of a hash?
21:24 QMario How do I use <STDIN> to get a value out of a certain hash?
21:25 ingy QMario: you can't. hashes are write only in Perl6
21:25 ingy just kidding ;)
21:26 QMario What do you mean?
21:27 QMario What I want to do is to create a program that stores a "phone book" in a hash. Then I want to ask th person who is looking through the phone book, who they want using <STDIN>. How do I do that?
21:27 QMario Can any of you ask this question in #perl for me?
21:27 mauke hahaha
21:27 mauke why?
21:28 QMario Heh, I'm banned.
21:28 mauke why?
21:28 QMario For standing up for Christ. :-D
21:29 mauke well, that's your problem
21:29 mauke sounds like homework anyway
21:29 QMario For me?
21:30 nothingmuch my cat is crazier than autrijus
21:30 nothingmuch he likes halva
21:30 nothingmuch and ice cream (but not frozen yoghurt)
21:32 obra  
21:33 obra This channel really has nothing to do with perl5, qmario
21:33 nothingmuch QMario: i think you should learn to separate between perl 5, perl 6, and religeon
21:34 nothingmuch and for the mean while, till your ban is lifted, either use #perl on irc.perl.org, or something like perlmonks.org (website), or perl-begin@perl.org (mailing list)
21:34 nothingmuch sorry, wrong mailing list address
21:35 nothingmuch http://lists.perl.org/showlist.cgi?name=beginners
21:36 nothingmuch you could also get one of Randal Schwartz's books, for perl beginers
21:36 nothingmuch or Simon Cozens' one, which is available online
21:36 nothingmuch "Begining Perl" or something like that
21:37 nothingmuch are you listening?
21:37 mauke Beginning Perl: http://learn.perl.org/library/beginning_perl/
21:43 Corion #perl bans people according to the rules of irc:
21:43 Corion 1) Somebody is drunk
21:44 Corion 2) Somebody took the wrong drugs
21:44 nothingmuch does 1) apply to the op or the banned person?
21:44 Corion nothingmuch: Any person. Need not be on irc.
21:44 cognominal blue cubes from the fridge are ok, I suppose
21:44 * nothingmuch bans corion because someone in ireland *must* be drunk ATM
21:45 Corion nothingmuch: You're free to try on #perl6 :)
21:45 nothingmuch =)
21:45 nothingmuch i like the fact that anarchy seems to actually work for this project
21:45 nothingmuch in all it's aspects
21:48 Corion Even NathanYJ left us :)
21:48 nothingmuch yeah
21:48 Corion (and I've mostly shut up about my more extreme viewpoints too :) )
21:48 Corion (... but I'm still waiting for my chance to push URI::File as the way to handle filenames in Pugs/Perl6)
21:49 nothingmuch i think we should have a grand unified resource manager
21:49 nothingmuch URI
21:49 nothingmuch File::Spec
21:49 nothingmuch IO::AtomicFile
21:49 nothingmuch that knows to be:
21:49 Corion nothingmuch: Stop that J2EE / P5EE talk :)
21:49 nothingmuch it's not that it's all of them at the same time
21:49 nothingmuch it's just a big hub of convenience that knows to connect them all for you
21:49 mauke like IO::All?
21:49 G2 has quit IRC ("oops")
21:50 nothingmuch sort of
21:50 nothingmuch but less drunk
21:50 mugwump heh
21:51 Corion The IO::All magic is too powerful by default.
21:51 nothingmuch my grudges with IO::All is that it's a bit too dwimmy
21:51 nothingmuch and it is not 100% flexible
21:51 nothingmuch or at least doesn't seem to be
21:54 nothingmuch actually, you know what mauke, reading more carefully (and not just seeing examples) i think IO::All is saner than I initially thought
21:56 Corion nothingmuch: The File/Directory abstraction as a lazy tree is nice. The implicit spawning of a (http) server is incredibly dangerous
21:56 nothingmuch true
21:56 nothingmuch ,
21:57 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
21:59 mugwump no http server, just a socket server
21:59 mugwump That one-line http server in the docs isn't exactly standards compliant ;)
21:59 nothingmuch i'd like an IO::All::Safe thingy
22:00 Corion mugwump: Still bad enough :)
22:00 nothingmuch that can only read things
22:00 mugwump IO::Few
22:00 madhouse has joined #perl6
22:00 * nothingmuch would like a way to just open $fh, $user_input; without worrying ever
22:00 nothingmuch (if read permissions aren't a problem"
22:00 nothingmuch without a file like "foo|" being a problem
22:00 nothingmuch and with http://foo.org/blah working
22:01 nothingmuch and so on and so forth
22:01 * nothingmuch looks
22:01 nothingmuch E_NO_SUCHMODULE IO::Few
22:02 nothingmuch mugwump: what was it we talked about a while ago?
22:02 nothingmuch i remember having something to tell you, but i can't recall the context
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22:16 ingy nothingmuch: I'm working on a strict mode for IO::All
22:16 nothingmuch ingy++
22:17 ingy use IO::All -strict;
22:17 ninereasons has quit IRC ("things fall apart")
22:17 ingy it simply exports a constructor that creates objects that have the strict attribute set
22:18 ingy and then all operations check that attribute for whether to be  strict.
22:18 ingy I will likely have a way to force all IO::All objects to be strict
22:19 ingy but module authors should not set that
22:19 ingy so the strictness is sort of lexically scoped
22:20 ingy of course operations that gen new IO::All objects will inherit the strictness bit
22:21 ingy so it's not really lexical, but it should give you enough rope to do what you need
22:22 ingy Dave Rolsky (autarch) gave me that idea. It's a good approach I think
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22:37 Limbic_Region stevan ping
22:37 QMario Sorry for not responding in a long time.
22:38 QMario has left
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22:43 Limbic_Region question - if you were porting a p5 piece of code to p6 that required regex support (that could easily be done with junctions instead) - would you show off the power of junctions or use p5 regexen?
22:43 Limbic_Region keeping in mind it is purely for others to be exposed to all the great work of Pugs
22:46 tybalt89 has left
22:48 nothingmuch junctions =)
22:48 ihb If i have a Perl 5 class, can i use that as a base class for a Perl 6 class?
22:48 nothingmuch ihb: my understanding is that yes, unless you want to have opaque type goodness
22:48 nothingmuch p6 will still support blessing
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23:21 mugwump There's no real reason why it can't be possible for an object to be both a blessed hash and have opaque properties...
23:22 nothingmuch good point, actually
23:22 nothingmuch but it's likely to cause some confusion
23:23 nothingmuch mugwump: backlog up a bit
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23:24 mugwump I'm not sure what we were talking about, nothingmuch.  Maybe someone's logging this channel?  :)
23:24 nothingmuch p'raps
23:25 nothingmuch i mean, yes
23:25 nothingmuch p'raps i can find it
23:26 mugwump maybe you found some cheap copies of Infected Mushroom CDs?  :)
23:26 nothingmuch nope, sorry
23:26 mugwump blast.
23:26 nothingmuch haven't been in a cd store for ages
23:27 nothingmuch damnit, i can't remember what I wanted to say
23:27 nothingmuch but i remember i worked hard trying to say it
23:28 nothingmuch oh!
23:28 nothingmuch Set::Object has a weird bug
23:28 nothingmuch i'm not exactly sure how it surfaces
23:29 nothingmuch but when you '-x _' after another test, some Set::Object sub is invoked
23:29 nothingmuch and says that blah blah blah is not a Set::Object
23:30 nothingmuch try to run S::O and IPC::Run in the same script
23:34 elmex has joined #perl6
23:36 Limbic_Region ok - I need some junction help
23:36 Limbic_Region if I have any( @foo ) eq any( @bar ) to start from and the answer is true, how can I find out which item matched?
23:36 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: you can't
23:36 nothingmuch afaik
23:37 Limbic_Region not even with another junction?
23:37 nothingmuch in a boolean at least
23:37 Limbic_Region forget the test
23:37 Limbic_Region that was to start from
23:37 nothingmuch i would like to say ($j = all(@foo) eq all(@bar));  but i'm not sure that works
23:37 nothingmuch from there you can call junction methods on $j
23:37 nothingmuch i forget their names
23:37 nothingmuch lets read some tests in t/junctions
23:37 Limbic_Region yeah
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