Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-05-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
08:37 ilogger starts logging #perl6 at Thu May 05 08:37:06 2005
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08:50 lightstep triple!
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10:18 Corion r2715 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html - 4761 ok, 48 failed + 1 segfault (YAML)
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11:22 meppl guten morgen
11:31 kungfuftr schwine-hundt!
11:32 Odin-LAP has joined #perl6
11:35 Juerd kungfuftr: Just in case you don't realise, that's very offensive.
11:35 Juerd And extra because it's spelled terribly.
11:44 osfameron If you want to respond with some comedy German, you are probably better off with the more neutral
11:44 osfameron "Wie komme ich am besten zum bahnhof"
11:46 osfameron on the basis that (in the UK at least) that's the only phrase that people remember from school
11:54 Odin- Ich bin ein Kugelschreiber!
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12:00 pjcj Lumpi ist mein Hund!
12:04 mauke Das Salz verzehrt den Leib des Mohren.
12:06 pjcj Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof!
12:17 kungfuftr Juerd: i know... and my german's incredably rusty
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13:12 stevan iblechbot: Net::IRC ... very nice :)
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13:14 stevan iblech++ # Net::IRC
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13:15 blechbot6 has joined #perl6
13:15 iblech ?raw PRIVMSG #perl6 :Thanks, Stevan :)
13:15 blechbot6 Thanks, Stevan :)
13:15 stevan blechbot6: hello
13:15 iblech ?uptime
13:16 iblech ?seen stevan
13:16 iblech :)
13:16 stevan iblech: thats so cool
13:16 iblech It's even using some kind of OO :)
13:16 stevan yes I saw
13:16 stevan home-made dispatch table :)
13:16 stevan yummy
13:16 kungfuftr right... more perl jobs available
13:17 iblech And it tracks its status (the channels it joined, its nick, etc.)
13:17 sahadev has joined #perl6
13:19 stevan iblech: persistently?
13:20 iblech No, only in-memory currently.
13:21 stevan iblech: examples/naive_bayesian/naive_baysian.p6 has some primative load/store hash functions you could use (if that would work)
13:21 stevan it just writes a tab delimited file
13:22 iblech That'll work, I think.
13:22 iblech ?quit shutdown
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13:38 Limbic_Region let's try this again
13:38 Limbic_Region salutations all
13:39 Jonathan_ Hi Limbic_Region :)
13:39 stevan howdy L~R
13:40 * Limbic_Region has been busy with $work and $house to notice much of what is going on
13:41 Limbic_Region autrijus didn't get to journal up yesterday - so what's new and exciting?
13:41 stevan Limbic_Region: iblech implemented Net::IRC
13:42 Limbic_Region I saw the the p6 bot
13:42 Limbic_Region is it in examples?
13:42 iblech examples/network/seenbot.p6
13:43 Limbic_Region cool - I might hack on that a bit
13:43 * Limbic_Region is feeling overwhelmed to start anything original today
13:46 Limbic_Region hmmm - there should be a Config:: module to make the config stuff better
13:47 Limbic_Region iblech - got a Config:: module preference?
13:47 iblech Config::Tiny
13:47 kungfuftr Config::General
13:47 kungfuftr Config::Any also not bad
13:48 Limbic_Region ok - will give Config::Tiny a shot - I am more of a Config::IniFiles sorta guy but with p5 regexen and multi-level datastructures - building a Config:: module shouldn't be too hard
13:48 Limbic_Region wish me luck
13:49 iblech FYI, a Perl 6 (OO) port is at http://tpe.freepan.org/repos/adam​k/Config-Tiny/lib/Config/Tiny.pm
13:49 Limbic_Region oh
13:50 Limbic_Region um - so does OO work now?
13:50 iblech no
13:50 Limbic_Region oh, so that's a p6 implementation when "we get there"
13:51 Limbic_Region I will writting OO before OO existed then
13:51 Limbic_Region woooo hoooo
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13:51 iblech :)
13:51 gaal L~R, if you only need to read, consider using yaml
13:51 gaal that works now :)
13:51 gaal though not on win32
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13:52 Corion gaal: BTW, does Pugs still build on mingw for you? I patched in some stuff to make setEnv and getProcessID work, but ...
13:52 gaal Corion, since i made it build on cygwin, i hadn't given msys a try. should i?
13:52 * gaal does
13:53 Corion gaal: I don't know how badly they differ. I think my patches only affect non-Posix stuff, and I'm not sure about if msys has more POSIX than Win32
13:55 gaal they all build with undef HAVE_POSIX, if that's what you mean.
13:56 Corion gaal: That sounds good then, yes. And no crash because of SetEnvironmentVariableW being not linked ...
13:57 Corion Now I merely need to find out how to make changes to %ENV visible in the Pugs process. Likely that is because getEnv is not declared unsafe.
13:57 gaal didn't that already work on unix?
13:57 Corion gaal: It doesn't on Win32.
13:58 Corion And I did not find any test that actually did %*ENV<FOO>='bar'; is(%*ENV<FOO>,'bar'); # and the one I wrote fails for me.
13:59 gaal what do people on unix say? has it never worked?
14:00 gaal does a minimal haskell program to write to env work? on both platforms?
14:01 stevan pugs -e '%*ENV<foo> = "bar"; say %*ENV<foo>' # print 'bar'
14:01 stevan on OS X
14:02 Corion stevan: Likely, my faked setEnv does not have the same signature/declaration/magic as the Prelude setEnv
14:02 Corion On Win32, setting it within the process doesn't work, but child processes see the change
14:03 gaal Corion, is that GHC's fault?
14:04 Corion gaal: I guess it's more my fault of not declaring the stuff properly, so that it doesn't get cached.
14:05 gaal why is the implementation even different though? sorry for being slow, maybe i need coffee :)
14:05 * autrijus bows before iblech's mastery that is Net::IRC
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14:06 autrijus so yaml is b0rken on win32?
14:06 autrijus I can fix that
14:06 stevan hey autrijus :)
14:06 autrijus hey :)
14:07 stevan long day at $work ?
14:07 autrijus yeah, verily
14:07 autrijus not sure I'll retain enough energy to write journal for today, even
14:07 autrijus endless meetings
14:07 autrijus maybe I'll nap first
14:07 stevan ouch @meetings,.. the worst kind of $work
14:08 autrijus indeed... especially @meetings that changes all specs :-/
14:09 autrijus but hey, the spec change is more manageable than @larry's
14:09 autrijus so I'll live :)
14:09 * stevan feels autrijus's pain
14:09 gaal cotion, it built OK. what test should i try?
14:09 stevan yes, @clients cant be worse than @larry :)
14:10 Corion gaal: Try t\pugsbugs\env_is_readonly.t
14:10 Corion gaal: and/or t\magicals\env.t
14:10 gaal failed test 2
14:11 gaal t/magicals/env....ok                                                          
14:11 gaal        2/9 skipped: Deleting items from %*ENV does not work yet
14:11 gaal t/magicals/env....ok                                                          
14:11 Corion gaal: So we can, on Win32, change %*ENV, but not see the changes ourselves. It's a weird weird world :)
14:11 Corion gaal: Weird. Because with native Win32, test #6 fails for me in env.t (plus the two skipped, but that's expected)
14:12 gaal you know what else is wierd?in tcsh, %~ means roughly command serial number
14:12 gaal it ought to start from 1 each time a shell is started
14:12 autrijus I'm on win32 now
14:12 gaal i just noticed that it doesn't reset on cygwin's tcsh.
14:13 gaal (in the prompt)
14:13 gaal i'm starting a complete smoke for msys, because it's been a while since anyone did that.
14:14 gaal t/builtins/io/io_in_for_loops.t
14:14 gaal C:\MinGW\1.0\bin\perl.exe: *** WFSO timed out
14:14 gaal what's WFSO ?
14:14 autrijus no idea
14:14 Corion "Waiting For Significant Other" ?
14:14 autrijus Wait For Single Objec
14:14 autrijus t
14:15 gaal What Future Sleeps Outdoors?
14:15 autrijus We Find Scheme Odd?
14:16 autrijus oh, the yaml segfault is probably common to both win32 and non-
14:16 autrijus it's caused by the undef
14:16 autrijus I'll fix
14:16 misc_ Win32 Fail and Segfault, Obviously ?
14:17 gaal autrijus, it looks like we need objects for pipe open :)
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14:19 gaal http://forum2.org/gaal/pugs/smoke-msys.html
14:19 Juerd autrijus: I scribbled some notes for perl 6 newbies at http://pugs.kwiki.org/?Perl6Nomenclature
14:20 Juerd autrijus: Can you see if what's there is accurate enough?
14:20 gaal Juerd, cool. Definitely add a link to the module porting HOWTO.
14:21 Juerd gaal: it's a wiki (hint!)
14:21 autrijus Juerd: I saw that, thanks
14:21 Juerd :)
14:21 autrijus gaal: noted. tests? :)
14:21 autrijus I mean, for |open, not for oo, which we have
14:22 gaal well, i wanted to port over all the tests that did temp files to open| ... :) but yeah.
14:23 * gaal works on it
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14:24 gaal btw last i checked, reading from Pugs::Internals::runCommand was slurpy.
14:24 gaal which come to think of it isn't surprising since it isn't wrapped in a perlish fh
14:24 autrijus aye.
14:25 * gaal steals ideas for |open from p5
14:27 * gaal hears for the first time of the vmesa platform
14:33 * Corion goes outside
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14:36 Juerd What is that? Out what side, and is a site something you can be in or out?
14:37 Juerd s/site/side/
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14:41 stevan Juerd: you should add svk and darcs to the "General" listing
14:45 jhorwitz autrijus: ping
14:45 autrijus pong!
14:45 autrijus jhorwitz: I'm excited to hear about your progress in p6i
14:46 jhorwitz i actually had it working.  now leo threw in a new fix, but i'm having ffi trouble
14:46 autrijus commit it? :D
14:46 jhorwitz need to access structure members...
14:46 autrijus ah, that.
14:47 jhorwitz yeah, it's not in a commitable state right now
14:47 autrijus you can do the easy thing and define accessors via #ifdef and treat themn as ffi foreign import
14:47 jhorwitz paste a quick example?
14:47 Juerd stevan: It's a wiki!
14:47 autrijus #define foo_bar_baz(foo) foo->bar.baz
14:48 jhorwitz ah, sneaky.
14:48 autrijus foreign import foo_bar_baz :: FooStructure -> IO BazType
14:48 autrijus I think it would work :)
14:48 autrijus (not 100% sure)
14:48 * jhorwitz is off to play with ffi
14:48 autrijus I hope ffi is kind to you
14:49 jhorwitz so far, so good
14:50 autrijus :)
14:52 iblech [BUG] foo(a => 25/1) currently parses as foo((a => 25)/1), resulting in foo(Inf)
14:54 hattmoward has left
14:55 autrijus noted. add test?
14:59 iblech precedent.t?
14:59 iblech precedence.t?
15:00 iblech will do
15:00 Juerd Perhaps just pair.t
15:00 Juerd arithmetic tests are in arith.t afaik
15:00 iblech k
15:00 Limbic_Region is there anyway to do slurpy IO yet?
15:00 Juerd even those specific to precedence
15:01 Limbic_Region or should I just loop and concatenate for now?
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15:01 Juerd Limbic_Region: Create a stub function, that you can remove when the functionality is implemented
15:02 Juerd I had to do that for abs() before, it worked very well.
15:02 Limbic_Region and do what - call it slurp() ?
15:02 * Limbic_Region has to go - $work
15:03 Juerd Limbic_Region: Whatever agrees with the spec, or else be creative :)
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15:12 meppl /topic perlsex
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15:21 stevan Limbic_Region: I think there already is a slurp()
15:22 iblech at it works, too
15:22 iblech and it works, too
15:23 Limbic_Region right then
15:23 Limbic_Region Jonathan_ ping
15:24 Limbic_Region iblech - have a test file or example?
15:24 iblech pugs -we 'say slurp "file.txt"'
15:25 iblech my $contents = slurp "file.txt"
15:25 Limbic_Region oh, so it doesn't work on an IO ref
15:25 Limbic_Region hmmm
15:25 autrijus pugs -e 'open("README").slurp.say'
15:25 autrijus worksforme
15:27 autrijus jhorwitz: does modparrot work on win32?
15:27 * Limbic_Region was forgetting an = sign
15:27 autrijus linking against libparrot_s does not quite work for me
15:27 jhorwitz autrijus: no -- looking for a porter though
15:27 autrijus perhaps because our -L -l magic isn't working there
15:27 autrijus oh ok.
15:28 jhorwitz mostly configuration/compiler issues.  APR makes the code very portable.
15:28 autrijus nod.
15:28 autrijus ok, I can't stay awake anymore. see you in a few hours
15:28 * autrijus waves &
15:30 Juerd Bye
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15:39 Limbic_Region question - should the following work?  for ( =$input ) -> $line is rw { chomp $line; }
15:39 Limbic_Region I have to s/rw/copy/ to get it to do what I want
15:41 iblech Not unless $input is opened rw, I think
15:41 Juerd Wow, does =$input return an lvalue?
15:42 Juerd That's surprising but also very neat.
15:42 Limbic_Region ah - makes sense
15:42 * Limbic_Region feels incredibly stupid sometimes
15:42 Juerd s/lvalue/not a copy/
15:43 Juerd It's extra neat if it means that if $input was opened rw, chomping means you end up with newlines removed from the file, $^I-wise.
15:44 Juerd Limbic_Region: In real Perl 6 you'd probably use auto-chomping, by the way.
15:44 Juerd Or that's what Damian keeps telling me whenever I have any code snippet with chomp in a loop :)
15:45 Limbic_Region Juerd - yeah, but I am writing code that can be used now
15:45 Limbic_Region and I think I might have found a bug
15:46 * Limbic_Region needs to develop a test case
15:49 Limbic_Region yep - pretty sure next is broken
15:49 Limbic_Region perlbot nopaste
15:49 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
15:51 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Is "next" known to be broken? Put this in blah.p6 to see weird behavior if not already known" (12 lines, 217B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9936
15:58 * Limbic_Region is using if ( $line ~~ ... ) {}  else { ... } as a workaround - yuck
15:58 wolverian hm. stylistic issues; why the parens around the =$input? also, is $_ aliased to $copy there?
15:58 wolverian er, to $line ,I mean.
15:59 Limbic_Region wolverian - copy/pasting from an example WRT parens
15:59 wolverian okay. :)
16:03 iblech wolverian: $_ is always the first argument to a callable thing (IIRC), so yes, $_ := $line
16:03 iblech i.e. my $a = -> $arg { say $_ }; $a(3); # should output 3
16:06 iblech hm..., but Pugs doesn't. Bug in Pugs or in my memory?
16:07 Limbic_Region is there a builtin line counter like $. yet?
16:08 wolverian iblech: ah, thanks. in that case, the '$line ~~ ' bit is redundant, although it's certainly self-documenting.
16:08 iblech Limbic_Region: no, and IIRC in Perl 6 this is a method call, something like $handle.curline, but as there's no synopsis about IO yet, I might be totally wrong :)
16:10 Limbic_Region that's what I thought but I wanted to be sure
16:10 wolverian for =$input -> $line is copy { $line.=chomp; next unless $line.words; say $line }
16:10 * Limbic_Region is really wondering about the next bug though
16:10 * Limbic_Region wanders off to get lunch
16:12 iblech hm... t/statements/next.t seems to test this bug, but it is :todo-ed, me wonders why
16:20 Limbic_Region iblech - when I rewrote next.t they were all :todo because it wasn't implemented yet
16:21 * Limbic_Region should go back and see how it has been updated since then
16:21 Limbic_Region oh wait - they are all still :todo
16:21 * Limbic_Region wonders if next is currently the same as last?
16:22 Limbic_Region err - an alias to last rather
16:22 Limbic_Region speaking of which - I think I found a bug with last too regarding naked blocks
16:24 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "possible last bug - will write a test for it if it is indeed a bug - run the following code in file called blah.p6" (14 lines, 239B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9937
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16:39 cognominal Limbic_Region: 'last' exits the loop...
16:42 gaal yay! <20050505163139.GA14883@wall.org>
16:44 Limbic_Region cognomial - I know
16:44 Limbic_Region in p5 a bare block is a looping construct
16:44 Limbic_Region so it should just last the bare block
16:45 Limbic_Region if that is ALSO the p6 behavior - then the way pugs behaves WRT last in a bare block - it is a bug
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17:00 Corion Yay. The segfault in YAML is gone!
17:01 gaal http://forum2.org/gaal/pugs/smoke-cygwin.html # yeah
17:03 Corion I wonder why unlink() on files fails ... Is this only on Win32 ? Then, the file(handle) is still open, which prevents deletion there. If it also happens on unixish systems, the problem lies elsewhere.
17:03 Corion (we also don't have a test for unlink :) )
17:05 Corion Heh. Perl5 doesn't have one either.
17:05 * gaal starts a linux smoke, goes out for a walk
17:08 iblech Corion: unlink() works on Linux (Gentoo, GHC 6.4)
17:08 iblech I'll add a test for unlink, too
17:08 Corion iblech: Ah, so that means that Pugs holds the file open for too long and thus it can't be removed.
17:09 Corion iblech: I guess open->print->close/fall-out-of-scope->unlink->-f # is a good test to see if unlink works :)
17:09 Corion iblech++ # adding tests
17:10 Corion Hmmm. I guess the thing should work with an explicit close() call on the filehandle, so there should be two tests, one where the handle just falls out of scope and one with an explicit close()
17:11 Corion ... the last test in t/general/atoms.t does that, so it should be moved from there into unlink.t :)
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17:18 iblech re. Done as r2733. The unlinking works on Linux, *but*: unlink(...) does return true when executed using "pugs -we '...'", but it returns undef in the test. Dunno why
17:18 * iblech food &
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17:53 gaal what's -w, anyway? it's a noop in the code; aren't warnings on by default in p6?
17:53 gaal oh and http://forum2.org/gaal/pugs/smoke-linux.html and rehi btw.
17:55 gaal hey, two unexpected successes. cool.
17:55 iblech Yes, it's just a habit :)
17:56 Corion gaal: Hmmm. So we need to make the %*ENV test :todo only for Win32
17:57 Corion gaal: The async.t likewise - it doesn't seem to work on native Win32 (propably due to GHC)
17:57 gaal todo => $*OS ~~ any<...>?
17:57 Corion gaal: Should work IMO, yes ;)
17:58 Corion r2734 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html - no unexpected successes, but env.t doesn't crash either :)
18:01 iblech No, it won't, as Test.pm is testing for defined()ness of :todo. I'll fix both env.t and Test.pm in a minute
18:01 Limbic_Region iblech - Config::Tiny is finished
18:02 Limbic_Region I need to write a bunch of snippets that I think might be bugs and then I will post
18:03 iblech Done as r2736.
18:03 iblech Limbic_Region: Great :)
18:10 autrijus I'm possessed :-/
18:10 sorje Heh, cool. A IRC module..
18:10 autrijus I dreamed that I wake up and start composing my journal, deliberating what to write...
18:10 autrijus ...so I did just that.
18:10 Corion ... then you woke up?
18:10 autrijus yeah.
18:10 Corion :)
18:10 Juerd Hey, today is 05-05-05
18:11 Juerd No matter what order you put year, month and day in!
18:11 Corion I wait for 6th of June next year. :)
18:11 autrijus it's 2005-05-06 for me.
18:11 Juerd autrijus: Oh. I'm too late again.
18:11 Juerd :(
18:11 hlen_ has quit IRC ("use vim")
18:11 autrijus I wait for 3550 years more :)
18:12 Juerd stoopid timezones.e
18:12 Juerd s/e$//
18:12 autrijus jhorwitz: how's tricks?
18:13 jhorwitz autrijus: it works.  using hsc2hs, so tweaking makefile now.
18:13 autrijus woot
18:13 autrijus so #ifdef doesn't?
18:13 jhorwitz no go
18:13 autrijus bummer.
18:13 jhorwitz hsc2hs is better in the long run anyway
18:14 autrijus aye aye
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18:29 Corion iblech: Your fix for Test.pm prints a test line several (2) times: http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html - see the line for env.t (the "is rw" line gets run twice)
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18:30 iblech hm... I think that's because of the use of the junction in env.t
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18:31 iblech because Test.pm:proclaim does only print things once
18:34 iblech Corion: What does "pugs -MTest -we 'plan 1; is 3, 4, todo => ($*OS eq any<MSWin32 mingw msys cygwin>);'" output on your sys?
18:35 pasteling "Corion" at 84.176.42.37 pasted "Output of test run" (13 lines, 404B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9940
18:35 Corion iblech: See the nopaste
18:39 iblech The same command on my system runs is() only once.
18:39 iblech But I'm not sure why is() is called two times, instead of four times (as this is the number of arguments to any())
18:41 iblech Corion: Please try "pugs -MTest -we 'plan 1; is 3, 4, "todo" => ?($*OS eq any<MSWin32 mingw msys cygwin>);'"
18:42 stevan iblech: it prints once for me (OS X)
18:42 stevan iblech: I am not sure if :todo is the place for platform specific branching
18:42 iblech stevan: On my sys (Linux), too (but so does the test without the "?")
18:42 pasteling "Corion" at 84.176.42.37 pasted "Test output for iblech" (15 lines, 422B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9941
18:43 stevan my $todo = ($*OS == Win32) ?? 'bug' :: undef;
18:43 stevan is(2, 4, $todo);
18:43 stevan I would think that might work
18:43 stevan any use of :todo or "todo" will result in a defined value
18:44 iblech Corion: Thanks, svn up to r2740
18:44 stevan although "todo" => undef might not (have to test that)
18:44 Corion updating and smoking - results should be here in 5 minutes or so :)
18:45 Corion ... make that 8 minutes - compiling now takes longer than testing ;)
18:45 iblech Should "$foo eq any<...>" return a junction of Bools or a single Bool?
18:45 stevan I assume a Bool
18:46 iblech stevan: I updated Test.pm to check for trueness instead of definedness, so ":todo" and ":todo<...>" TODO a test and ":todo(0)" or "todo => 0" does not
18:46 stevan iblech: but how will that work with ok('test', :todo)
18:46 stevan (which is why it checks for defined and not the bool)
18:47 pasteling "jhorwitz" at 216.52.77.2 pasted "for autrijus: eval_imc" (13 lines, 213B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9943
18:47 iblech stevan: I thought so to, but now I think it should stay a junction of Bools, by the law of junctioness preservation :)
18:47 iblech stevan: ":todo" is really short for ":todo(1)"
18:47 autrijus jhorwitz: !!!
18:50 jhorwitz autrijus: r2741
18:51 stevan iblech: I am not sure that :todo(0) is very intuitive
18:52 stevan iblech: but with a boolean exp instead of 0, I suppose it works.  It just looks a little odd to me
18:53 stevan then again, I have not be getting a lot of sleep lately, so it is probably best to ignore me :)
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18:54 jhorwitz autrijus: there's only one problem -- it bombs out if you try to run a second eval_parrot.  reproduced problem in C as well.  making the interpreter persistent would solve this.
18:54 iblech stevan: I think so, too. We should probably discourage :todo(0), but I see no easy way to check that the test write wrote :todo(0) instead of todo => something_that_evaluates_to_false
18:54 nothingmuch evening
18:55 stevan hola nothingmuch
18:55 iblech s/test write/test writer/
18:56 stevan iblech: maybe ok($fail_on_Win32, ($*OS eq 'Win32' ?? 'bug' :: undef));
18:56 stevan although now that i look at it, its not any prettier, nor does it illustrate that is it a :todo better
18:57 stevan I am going to go with my previous idea that you should ignore me until I have some more coffee
18:57 stevan :P
18:57 autrijus jhorwitz: ok, please commit, I'll carry on that
18:57 autrijus or at least try :)
18:57 autrijus oh, you did
18:57 autrijus jhorwitz++
18:57 autrijus jhorwitz++
18:57 autrijus jhorwitz++
18:58 stevan jhorwitz++ # everybody join in!
18:58 iblech stevan: ;)
19:00 Corion iblech: Works fine with r2740 now!
19:01 iblech Corion: nice :)
19:01 Corion r2740 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html - 4769 ok, 51 failed
19:02 Corion can anybody explain to me what the single-arg version of atan() is supposed to be ?
19:02 autrijus Corion: doesn't rod's cover that?
19:02 Corion rod's ?
19:03 iblech http://rodadams.net/Perl/S29.html
19:05 iblech atan(1) == pi/4 (result is always between -pi and +pi), atan(1, 1) == pi/4 (result is always between 0 and 2pi)
19:05 Corion Only describes the two-arg form of atan, but doesn't describe the single arg form.
19:05 Corion Ah... Hmmm. Is that the difference? The range of results?
19:07 iblech Yes. The single-arg form gets a y/x-ratio, so it has to guess the quadrant it is in (-1/-1 == +1, although P(-1, -1) is in quadrant III). the two-arg form distinguishes the y- and x-coordinate and is so able to return the correct result (taking the quadrant into account)
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19:09 Corion iblech: Thanks
19:09 autrijus jhorwitz: do you think we should probe for parrot in PATH?
19:09 autrijus jhorwitz: and stick it to PUGS_EMBED if found?
19:10 jhorwitz autrijus: we'd still need to know the parrot source dir.  :(
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19:11 autrijus jhorwitz: doesn't the parrot in path carry that info?
19:11 jhorwitz nope.
19:12 autrijus darn.
19:12 Limbic_Region ok - I have documented and finished Config::Tiny but I all I have is the module itself (no test suite or full package for installation) - what should I do with it?
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19:13 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Config::Tiny" (190 lines, 5.6K) at http://sial.org/pbot/9944
19:14 autrijus Limbic_Region: write a minimal sanity test
19:14 autrijus the Makefile.PL itself is just copy-paste from other ext/ stuff
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19:15 autrijus    # Save a config
19:15 autrijus    $cfg->write( 'new.ini' );
19:15 autrijus this looks suspicious
19:15 Limbic_Region thanks
19:16 * Limbic_Region missed some things
19:16 revdiablo hmm I wonder if I should put my silly combinations thing in examples/
19:16 autrijus /tmp/ghc5901.hc:288: warning: implicit declaration of function `imcc_compile_pir'
19:17 autrijus /tmp/ghc5901.hc:649: warning: implicit declaration of function `imcc_init'
19:17 revdiablo maybe someone will p6ify it a bit
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19:17 jhorwitz autrijus: no prototypes in parrot header files
19:18 autrijus jhorwitz: you can add that declaration in hsc, no?
19:18 jhorwitz i tried, using #def, but it didn't take.
19:18 jhorwitz didn't affect anything, so i let it be for now.
19:18 autrijus k. not terribly important anyway
19:18 autrijus sure
19:19 Limbic_Region autrijus - will see what I can do but I have at least 5 things I think are bugs I wanted to write up first
19:19 autrijus oh, sure!
19:19 autrijus Limbic_Region++ # writing OO before OO exists
19:20 Limbic_Region autrijus - are naked blocks looping constructs like in p5?
19:20 Limbic_Region if so - last is broken
19:20 * jhorwitz is happy he understood the haskell he wrote today
19:20 Limbic_Region if not, I won't bother writing a test
19:21 autrijus they're not
19:21 Limbic_Region ok - so down to 4
19:21 Limbic_Region is //= supposed to work yet?
19:22 autrijus jhorwitz++
19:22 autrijus sure, why not?
19:22 autrijus it worksforme
19:22 autrijus $ ./pugs x
19:22 autrijus Hello from Parrot land!
19:22 Limbic_Region because it didn't work for me in my situation
19:22 autrijus jhorwitz++ # xx +Inf
19:22 * Limbic_Region will try to get a minimal test case
19:23 autrijus jhorwitz: ok, let's use the horrible horrible unsafePerformIO hack!
19:24 * autrijus starts hacking it in
19:25 Limbic_Region autrijus - 3 lines of code that expose what I believe to be a problem in //= or hash {}
19:26 Limbic_Region my %hash;
19:26 Limbic_Region %hash<foo> //= hash {};
19:26 Limbic_Region %hash<foo><bar> = 42;
19:26 Limbic_Region should that work?
19:27 iblech Limbic_Region: It works if you delete the line with //=, as Perl 6 autovivies %hash as neccessary :)
19:27 jhorwitz autrijus: it actually worked for you the first time?  ;-)
19:27 autrijus jhorwitz: yes
19:27 autrijus Limbic_Region: it may be that //= vivifies lhs incorrectly. I'm not sure
19:27 Limbic_Region iblech - I can work around it - that's not the point
19:27 autrijus Limbic_Region: but, what iblech said.
19:28 Limbic_Region I was trying to port Adam's p5 code to p6
19:28 autrijus jhorwitz: interested in doing the weird thing that is compreg Pugs? :)
19:29 Limbic_Region in p5 $self->{$ns = $1} ||= {};
19:29 Limbic_Region so while I have it working, I want to add a test if it exposes a bug that might bite someone else in the same way
19:32 Limbic_Region and while I am at it - is a filehandle opened for writing supposed to flush/close automatically at the end even if $fh.close isn't used?  my $fh open('>foo.bar'); $fh.say( "foo" ); # will result in an empty file on my machine unless I do $fh.close
19:32 lightstep has joined #perl6
19:32 Limbic_Region bah - I am just going to summarize the things I think are bugs and post a link to that
19:32 jhorwitz autrijus: i guess we could use NCI to call a function exported by FFI that returns the PIR directly
19:32 * jhorwitz loves acronyms
19:33 autrijus jhorwitz: why NCI? we can create callback subs at will
19:33 autrijus look at Syck.hs for mkCallbackk
19:34 G2 has joined #perl6
19:35 PerlJam FFI?
19:35 lightstep Foreign Function Interface
19:36 autrijus super-leet, Swig-like thing built into the language
19:36 autrijus jhorwitz: the Horrible Hack (tm) is in. eval_parrot is now reentrant!
19:37 PerlJam the more I find out about haskell, the more it seems like perl6 only with different syntax  :)
19:37 jhorwitz autrijus++
19:37 autrijus PerlJam: nah. that's because Pugs doesn't do OO yet :)
19:37 autrijus haskell doesn't have subtyping; Perl 6 thrives on subtyping.
19:37 lightstep err, classes?
19:40 autrijus lightstep: subtype OddInt of Int where { $_ % 2 }
19:40 autrijus but sure, classes and roles too.
19:40 PerlJam autrijus: isn't OO next on the timeline?
19:40 autrijus PerlJam: it is, and I even have a model figured out.
19:40 PerlJam autrijus: excellent!
19:40 PerlJam autrijus++
19:41 PerlJam autrijus: I bet it'll be slow though (I mean perl5 slow or slower)  
19:41 autrijus "Larry predicts the Community will collapse within 30 years, leading to a 30,000 year period of anarchy before a Sixth Perl is established. The purpose of his project is to influence events so that the interregnum period will be only 3 years and not 30,000. This will be done, he says, by the production and dissemination by his team of an Apocalyptic Synopsica which will contain all camel knowledge."
19:41 PerlJam Just a feeling I have.
19:41 * autrijus dons the Psycho Historian hat
19:41 autrijus PerlJam: not when we compile to PIR (aka IMC).
19:41 lightstep how are there subtypes checked? i imagine OrderedList or PrimeNumber or HaltingTM
19:41 lightstep s/there/these/
19:41 autrijus lightstep: the perl trick is
19:41 PerlJam oh that's true
19:41 autrijus ...drum roll...
19:42 autrijus ..."everything that amounts to halting problem at compile time, instead happens at runtime"
19:42 PerlJam autrijus: Are we going to find out that Larry Wall is really Larry Seldon (Hari Seldon's lesser known brother) ?
19:42 iblech has quit IRC ("leaving")
19:43 autrijus PerlJam: yeah. and his yearly image in the State of Onion speech looks so real!
19:43 Juerd Why does life suck?
19:43 Corion autrijus++ # Foundation
19:44 autrijus Juerd: because it needs to defragment itself with VACUUM.
19:46 crysflame foundation?
19:47 lightstep @google Foundation
19:47 Corion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Foundation_Series
19:47 lightstep http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos​/tg/detail/-/0553293354?v=glance
19:47 Corion ... actually, the series isn't that good a read IMO
19:47 crysflame oh
19:48 crysflame the ideas behind it are super neat
19:48 G2 has quit IRC ("oops")
19:48 crysflame PerlJam++ # Lari Seldon
19:50 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'eval_parrot<print "Hi!\n">'
19:50 autrijus Hi!
19:50 jhorwitz woohoo!
19:51 Juerd autrijus: TBH, that could have been normal eval ;)
19:51 autrijus rofl, Juerd
19:52 jhorwitz Juerd++
19:56 Limbic_Region Config::Tiny tests are going to have to wait until tomorrow - I'm too tired
19:56 stevan Limbic_Region: is it checked in?
19:56 autrijus Limbic_Region: ok, check in barebones into ext/ anyway?
19:56 autrijus I think the test squad is around :)
19:56 stevan Limbic_Region: check it in and I will try and write some
19:57 * stevan is not in the mood for $work today
19:57 * Limbic_Region can't check in from work </same old song and dance>
19:57 stevan Limbic_Region: no paste all you have
19:58 stevan and I will do the rest :)
19:58 estel has left "Konversation terminated!"
19:58 Corion Maybe we should have check-in-by-mail, but that would mean we would check in many letters from Mr. OBEKE from Namibia
19:58 stevan Corion: I have a business proposition for you
19:58 PerlJam Limbic_Region: why can't you checkin from work exactly?
19:58 stevan Corion: you dont know me but...
19:59 stevan PerlJam: he is a secret govt. agent,.. they would frown on him working with "us"
19:59 Limbic_Region PerlJam - policy and because of a recent firewall lockdown
19:59 PerlJam Limbic_Region: surely you can tunnel through and checkin by proxy
19:59 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Config::Tiny (could probably use most of p5's Config::Tiny's test suite)" (190 lines, 5.6K) at http://sial.org/pbot/9945
19:59 stevan PerlJam: subverting a US Govt firewall might be a felony :P
19:59 jhorwitz autrijus: just moved packfile initialization into initParrot -- should stop potential memory leaks.  :)
19:59 Limbic_Region PerlJam - surely I would lose my job
20:00 Limbic_Region not to mention my security clearance
20:00 autrijus jhorwitz: cool!
20:00 stevan Region, Limbic Region (shaken not stired)
20:00 PerlJam stevan: heck, subverting an Intel firewall is a felony (just ask merlyn)
20:00 * stevan thinks maybe he made his coffee too strong
20:00 autrijus jhorwitz: I have sinned for you. :-/ I hope I can be redeemed from using The unsafePerformIO Hack
20:00 Corion Limbic_Region: But there are $non_us_govt which would hire you then ;-)))
20:00 PerlJam Limbic_Region: yet you can talk to us on IRC?
20:00 autrijus jhorwitz: but for now let it be that way
20:01 Limbic_Region stevan - the p5 Config::Tiny test suite is definately worth checking out but I changed the concept of root level section from _ to ''
20:01 stevan PerlJam: Although Guantanamo is nice this time of year, I think Limbic_Region would rather not take an early "vacation"
20:01 autrijus it'd be nice if Net::IRC can read from both yaml and configtiny.
20:01 Limbic_Region PerlJam - I have perlmonk.org hosting cgiirc so from perspective of local admin - it is just a regular web page of view only
20:01 * jhorwitz is reading about this sin...
20:02 * Limbic_Region thinks there is a fundemental problem with distinguishing file uploads from form posting - but hey, I don't make the rules
20:07 Limbic_Region hmmm - I need sleep
20:07 stevan I am adding ChangeLogs to all the ext/ modules as well
20:09 autrijus ok, I'm thinking about adding -O to pugs
20:09 autrijus pugs -OParrot examples/mandel.p6
20:09 autrijus that runs it with parrot
20:09 autrijus without temp file or pugscc
20:10 autrijus is -O ok? or -R?
20:11 jhorwitz -Oparrot sounds good to me
20:11 autrijus ok.
20:14 autrijus implementing...
20:14 Corion I would reserve -O for optimizing, but then, optimizing might not be specifically exported to the user (or exported via "use less" and "use more"
20:15 autrijus that is good thinking
20:15 autrijus so -B maybe?
20:15 autrijus as in backend
20:16 Corion Don't know of any special use of -B, so it's likely free
20:16 lightstep what about long options?
20:16 autrijus --backend
20:16 * Limbic_Region calls it a night
20:16 Limbic_Region has quit IRC (""a night"")
20:17 stevan Config::Tiny is in, and I included a basic "it compiles" test, will do more later
20:18 autrijus $ ./pugs -BParrot examples/mandel.p6
20:18 autrijus ................::::::::::::::::::::::​::::::::::::::::::::::................
20:19 * jhorwitz applauds
20:20 * autrijus cheers
20:21 autrijus $ ./pugs -BParrot -e 'say "The answer is: { 7 * 6 }"'
20:21 autrijus The answer is: 42
20:22 lightstep try 9*6
20:22 obra er. isn't it ...yeah, that
20:24 PerlJam Hmm.  
20:24 stevan Hmmm, the one problem with all this "OO that is not OO" is that we might get a lot of name collisions
20:24 stevan too many "new()"s
20:25 PerlJam I wonder if they got that little detail in the HHGTTG movie
20:25 lightstep mervin looks so unlike himself
20:27 lightstep http://avikatz.net/sf/meimad/meim11.jpg
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20:28 jhorwitz PerlJam: they did
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21:01 * jhorwitz will return after these commercial messages (and a drive home)
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21:04 _metaperl where can I read about err die
21:04 _metaperl my $dict = open($dict_file) err die "Couldn't open the AUTHORS file
21:05 mauke err is the low priority form of //
21:05 ninereasons E04 ?
21:07 ninereasons 'a synonym for "oops...")'
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21:09 _metaperl mauke, ninereasons, thanks
21:11 _metaperl another off-the-cuff question: is err what "or" was in p5?
21:12 revdiablo err is the low precedence version of //
21:13 revdiablo err and // check for definedness, not truth
21:13 _metaperl and "or" is low prec form of || ?
21:13 revdiablo yeah
21:13 _metaperl i see
21:13 _metaperl thanks
21:14 _metaperl defined($x) || $y  # same as $x // $y
21:14 revdiablo yeah
21:14 revdiablo especially useful as, e.g. $x //= 0;
21:14 _metaperl I see
21:15 autrijus ooh rms is visiting .tw before I depart for austria
21:15 * autrijus looks forward to chatting with rms
21:17 mauke $x // $y is actually defined($x) ? $x : $y
21:17 revdiablo good poing, mauke
21:17 revdiablo point too
21:17 revdiablo :)
21:24 stevan autrijus: any thoughts on when argument type based MMD will work?
21:25 stevan autrijus: any thoughts on when argument type based MMD will work?
21:25 stevan whoops wrong window :P
21:27 _metaperl is the slurpy operator needed here?
21:27 _metaperl sub pick_committer (*@committers) returns Str {
21:27 _metaperl    any(@committers).pick;
21:27 _metaperl }
21:27 _metaperl
21:27 stevan _metaperl: does it work without it?
21:28 _metaperl I'm saying it should as long as the sub is passed a list from length 0 to n, n positive
21:29 _metaperl my @x; pick_committer(@x); # bombs? my List @x; pick_committer(@x); # ok??
21:29 _metaperl I will try it
21:31 decay has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:32 _metaperl http://pastebot.nd.edu/687
21:33 _metaperl even with @x not yet defined, it works without slurpiness
21:33 _metaperl I think the slurpiness is superfluous.... please correct if wrong
21:34 stevan hangman seems to work fine if i take it out
21:35 _metaperl well, my paste demonstrates that it is pointless
21:35 stevan that may have just been a remnant of an earlier version of the code
21:35 stevan ok I am removing it from hangman
21:35 revdiablo _metaperl: I think without being slurpy, it expects an array, and breaks on a normal list
21:35 ninereasons _metaperl, it was a temporary fix for buggy behavior.
21:35 _metaperl oh!
21:35 stevan ninereasons: thanks, thats what I thought it was
21:36 ninereasons stevan, something is funny with the :todo<s...>, have you noticed?
21:37 stevan _metaperl: committed in r2754
21:37 stevan it is like it was never there :)
21:37 _metaperl well, I wouldn't change it...
21:37 stevan ninereasons: no I havent
21:37 stevan _metaperl: why not?
21:37 _metaperl well, let's think...
21:37 ninereasons when a :todo<bug> is used, everything after that gets marked as  # TODO bug
21:37 _metaperl should it break when a list instead of an array is passed?
21:37 ninereasons I'm not sure what I'm looking at, but I think that's descriptive, stevan.
21:38 stevan _metaperl: in the context of the hangman game, it will never get the wrong input
21:38 stevan ninereasons: can you show me an example?
21:38 stevan ninereasons: something I can run
21:38 ninereasons pugs t/builtins/arrays_and_hashes/kv.t
21:38 ninereasons ok 20 - for(): from 1-elem Hash %hash got the right $key # TODO bug
21:38 _metaperl the slurpy parameter is a great conversation piece... I was using it as a point of education for my next p6 talk --- which will be to explain this code.... I am using kwid to elucidate hangman.p6
21:39 revdiablo _metaperl: I think so, when you say an array it wants an array, when you want anything list-like, you say a slurpy list
21:39 _metaperl I will commit the kwid when done
21:39 ninereasons there is no ":todo<bug>" in test 20
21:39 stevan ninereasons: I get "ok 20 - for(): from 1-elem Hash %hash got the right $key"
21:39 stevan no TODO
21:40 ninereasons interesting.  maybe my Test.pm is broken.
21:40 stevan ninereasons: do you have any local mods?
21:40 stevan _metaperl: embedded kwid? or external?
21:40 _metaperl external
21:40 _metaperl hangman.kwid in same directory
21:40 ninereasons I don't think so. I did a diff on the installed : local : repo and they are all the same, stevan
21:40 _metaperl but it's pod as I cant remember kwid syntax
21:41 autrijus stevan: we have Val-based mmd now
21:41 _metaperl will ask ingy to convert it
21:41 stevan _metaperl: you are welcome to keep the slurpy in there, but I would rather take it out since it is not really correct in that context
21:41 stevan ninereasons: is your build up to date?
21:41 _metaperl ok, leave it unslurped... I will discuss it from that vantage point
21:41 * stevan wonders if his build is up to date actually
21:42 stevan _metaperl: it is your talk, so you can easily use an older copy for the educational benifits
21:42 autrijus stevan: and Var based too
21:42 ninereasons yes .. and no :-) you put your finger on it stevan.
21:42 _metaperl either way is educational. I just lead in with "now, this is not slurpy... if it were slurpy" instead of "now this is slurpy if it were not..."
21:43 stevan autrijus: ??
21:43 _metaperl ?? is ternary operator :)
21:43 autrijus stevan: svn up and check multi_sub.t
21:43 stevan ninereasons: my build it not the most current either :)
21:43 stevan autrijus: ok
21:43 autrijus only 3 fails now
21:43 stevan oh
21:43 ninereasons I'm having trouble building; and as part of my build process I wipe out my copy of pugs.  "pugs" is a link to the most recent build
21:44 stevan autrijus: which three?
21:44 ninereasons when a recent build does not exist, "pugs" defaults to the installed version
21:44 stevan autrijus: compiling takes to long, i MUST know :P
21:44 autrijus stevan: Num Sub Hash
21:44 ninereasons so, stevan, you put your finger on the problem.
21:44 stevan autrijus: ok
21:44 autrijus stevan: you can say "make unoptimised"!
21:44 * autrijus wonders if we should make unoptimised build the default during development :)
21:44 stevan ninereasons: compiling the latest right now, I will see after that
21:45 stevan autrijus: but unoptimised means pugs is slower :)
21:45 ingy hola
21:45 stevan which with things like Pod parsing is painful
21:45 stevan hey, ingy
21:45 ingy hi there
21:47 autrijus hey ingy. seen the news of eval_parrot and pugs -BParrot? :)
21:47 iblechbot has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:47 ingy autrijus: no
21:48 ingy sounds awesome though
21:48 autrijus ingy:
21:48 autrijus $ ./pugs -BParrot -e 'say "The answer is: { 7 * 6 }"'
21:48 autrijus The answer is: 42
21:48 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'eval_parrot<print "42!\n">'
21:48 autrijus 42!
21:48 stevan autrijus: is parrot required?
21:48 autrijus stevan: no, it's built when PUGS_EMBEd=parrot
21:48 autrijus same deal as embedded perl5
21:49 stevan I am getting this
21:49 stevan Parrot.hsc:2:28: ../pugs_config.h: No such file or directory
21:49 stevan make: *** [src/Pugs/Embed/Parrot.hs] Error 1
21:49 ingy very nice
21:49 ingy I just want to get my Perldoc integration done asap
21:49 ingy how is object support coming btw?
21:49 autrijus stevan: weird, is src/Pugs/pugs_config.h there?
21:50 autrijus ingy: some crazy folks figured out how to write OO witihout OO
21:50 ingy My Test::Chunks framework has been an amazing experience and I want to port it
21:50 ingy oh?
21:50 stevan autrijus: nope
21:50 ingy where are the examples?
21:50 autrijus stevan: svn up; should be fixed
21:50 autrijus ingy: http://svn.openfoundry.org/pu​gs/ext/Net-IRC/lib/Net/IRC.pm
21:50 autrijus ingy: http://svn.openfoundry.org​/pugs/examples/cashiers.p6
21:51 stevan ingy: also see ext/Config-Tiny
21:51 _metaperl hey ~= is not in the Perl6operator synopsis doc... what does it do?
21:51 autrijus _metaperl: what .= did
21:51 _metaperl oh!
21:51 _metaperl yes, because ~ is string concat
21:51 _metaperl thanks
21:51 lightstep has quit IRC ("leaving")
21:51 autrijus ingy: and that OO, syntax aside, is isomorphic to any OO system :)
21:52 stevan autrijus: the only issue I found is that of name collisions
21:52 stevan too many new()s
21:52 autrijus (as Sussman and Steele have proved in the Scheme paper)
21:52 autrijus stevan: right, but namespace support should fix that
21:52 stevan i made Config::Tiny's into Config::Tiny::new() for now
21:53 autrijus k.
21:53 stevan autrijus: yup
21:53 stevan it's a hack, but it works
21:53 stevan autrijus: compiling fine now
21:53 autrijus woot.
21:53 stevan autrijus++ # faster then a speeding bullet
21:53 stevan autrijus++ # more powerful than a locomotive
21:53 ninereasons autrijus, you didn't need that ../pugs_config.h line ?  that was the problem?
21:54 autrijus ninereasons: yeah.. because -DPUGS_HAVE_PARROT is passed in via cmdline
21:54 autrijus ninereasons: it has to do with build order
21:54 ninereasons I tried 30 ways to solve that problem.  
21:54 autrijus uh. sorry to hear that
21:55 ninereasons I lived.  feel stupid, though.
21:55 autrijus nah... we all do that one time or another
21:57 ninereasons if I want to add parrot to pugs, is it automagical?
21:58 _metaperl two things about this line of code:    @letters == @solution.grep:{ $_ ne '' };  # 1 : == is doing array comparision instead of smart matching with ~~ # 2 what does the colon after "grep" represent? where can IRead more about it?
21:58 autrijus just set PUGS_EMBED=parrot
21:58 autrijus _metaperl: it represents an adverbial block.
21:59 ninereasons thank you, autrijus
21:59 autrijus it's like saying
21:59 autrijus grep(@solutions : {$_ ne ''})
21:59 autrijus where @solutions is the invocant
21:59 autrijus and {} the argument
21:59 jhorwitz has joined #perl6
21:59 autrijus you can read more about it on p6l
21:59 _metaperl oh ok
21:59 _metaperl thanks
21:59 autrijus np :)
22:00 stevan ingy: how is Perldoc going? I was looking at it today
22:01 * stevan would very much like a kwid parser to mess around with
22:01 ninereasons zip() is wonderful.
22:01 ingy stevan: I expect to make major progress RSN
22:02 stevan ingy: in time for you talk at YAPC?
22:03 ingy well yes, but hopefully much sooner
22:08 autrijus ingy: have you played with syck emitter?
22:08 ingy autrijus: no
22:08 autrijus k.
22:08 ninereasons is there a positive definedness counterpart to // ?  (as && is the counterpart to || for truth)
22:08 ingy I should though
22:08 ingy although it is a 1.0 emitter
22:08 autrijus ninereasons: write one yourself :)
22:09 ninereasons ok :-)
22:09 autrijus sub infix<\\> { ... }
22:09 autrijus infix:<>, even
22:09 ingy My test first fu has just had a 1000% increase!
22:09 ingy this bodes very well for my projects
22:09 autrijus nice!
22:09 autrijus because of T::Chunks?
22:10 ingy yes... I've averaged 2 releases a day on that code for over a week
22:10 ingy and applied it to work and now to YAML and Perldoc
22:10 ingy I didn't expect it to work out this nicely
22:11 ingy it just evolved that way
22:11 ingy of course, to be fair, my test first fu was about as low as anyone I know.
22:12 ingy basically I was at loggerheads with choosing between writing tests that were not well refactored, or just not writing tests
22:13 ingy now I have something I not only can live with but actually endorse
22:13 ingy it's my new groove
22:14 ninereasons autrijus, does 'sub infix:<..> {...}' work in the latest version? (i've really been looking forward to playing with that)
22:14 stevan autrijus: any chance of dispatching on IO params too?
22:14 _metaperl I can't seem to find a reference document for adverbial blocks... is there one? I dont really understand them well
22:15 stevan autrijus: currently it does this "pugs: cannot cast from VHandle {handle: <stderr>} to [Char]"
22:15 autrijus stevan: code?
22:15 autrijus stevan: example code?
22:15 stevan autrijus: one second
22:16 stevan perlbot nopaste
22:16 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
22:16 autrijus ingy: I think if you extend your DATA section has generator capabilities aka LectroTest, that will be the Killer App to bring me back to writing p5 with sanity
22:16 pasteling "stevan" at 67.186.136.119 pasted "multi-sub IO failing" (36 lines, 1.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/9949
22:18 ingy here is an example test I just refactored http://rafb.net/paste/results/v9oEfN33.html
22:19 ingy autrijus: so I need to read about something called LectroTest
22:19 ingy ?
22:19 autrijus stevan: I think fixed
22:20 autrijus ingy: Test::LectroTest
22:20 stevan ingy: Test::LectroTest (on CPAN), but tmoertel
22:20 stevan autrijus: :)
22:20 autrijus ingy: I think it will be enlightening for you
22:20 ingy thanks
22:20 stevan electrifying even
22:20 autrijus :D
22:20 _metaperl LectroTest is similar to Bivio's test program
22:21 ingy you guys use this yet http://search.cpan.org/~kin​g/WebService-NoPaste-0.03/
22:21 ingy I just did:
22:21 ingy cat t/02fail.t | nopaste
22:21 ingy I love that
22:21 autrijus nice
22:22 ingy if i could just pipe the output to perlbot/#perl6 somehow
22:22 autrijus stevan: IO sub dispatch worksforme
22:22 stevan autrijus: BTW - should this be able to catch the hardfail? (assuming ok($cond is lazy))
22:22 stevan is(foo($*ERR), 'IO', 'dispatched to the IO sub', :todo<hardfail>);
22:22 stevan autrijus: excellent, you have made my last hour (once again) :)
22:23 ingy yeah, it was my idea. I gave it to rking to implement and become  a cpan  author so we could hire him at SocialText
22:23 autrijus stevan: I don't know, try and see :)
22:23 stevan autrijus: it doesnt
22:23 ingy btw, I like how IO::All-isms are finding their way into Perl6
22:23 stevan I am just wondering if it should? or would foo($*ERR) be evaluated it gets passed (which is what I assume would happen)
22:24 autrijus stevan: the left side of is() needs to be is lazy too
22:25 stevan autrijus: can you give me an example which will hardfail? I can't seem to come up with one
22:25 stevan this one was my best hope :)
22:25 autrijus stevan: exit(1)
22:25 autrijus ;)
22:25 stevan LOL
22:25 stevan okj
22:27 _metaperl could someone give me a kiddie tutorial on adverbial blocks?
22:29 ingy autrijus: Lectro looks neat. I will bind it to Chunks tonight.
22:29 _metaperl I think apocalypse12 is the ticket: http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/apo/A12.html
22:31 autrijus ingy++
22:31 autrijus ingy++
22:31 autrijus ingy++
22:31 autrijus but I sleep.
22:31 autrijus journal up. I punted again :)
22:33 osfameron has joined #perl6
22:38 revdiablo ingy: yeah, larry has mentioned his liking for IO::All a couple of times on p6l
22:38 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
22:39 ingy revdiablo: goodly
22:39 nothingmuch my ass hurts
22:39 * nothingmuch bought a bike with a seat shaped like a tent peg
22:40 ingy lol
22:40 puetzk nothingmuch: brooks saddle
22:40 puetzk the one, the only :-P
22:41 puetzk you have to survive the breakin period somehow, but after that...
22:41 nothingmuch the seat currently does not need breaking in
22:41 nothingmuch my butt does
22:41 * puetzk has never been exactly clear on who is breaking in who with a new brooks saddle...
22:41 nothingmuch after i get back in shape a bit i'll see what I need to do
22:42 * nothingmuch wonders where one can get such a thing in Israel
22:42 puetzk luckily it's generally a once in a lifetime affair ;-)
22:43 nothingmuch what makes them so good
22:43 autrijus oh, io() is blessed?
22:43 autrijus how is it different from open()?
22:43 _metaperl stevan, should the character for blank in hangman.p6 be a constant? how do you specify constants in p6? do we have them yet?
22:44 autrijus zzz &
22:45 nothingmuch ciao autrijus
22:45 autrijus nite
22:45 ninereasons my ($var) is constant
22:45 _metaperl I see
22:46 _metaperl can we do my $var is constant " " ;
22:46 _metaperl or must assignment be on another line
22:46 ninereasons my int ($pre, $in, $post) is constant = (0..2);
22:46 ninereasons not implemented yet, though.
22:47 _metaperl how long til we roll out p6 do you think?
22:47 _metaperl ghc seems to be limited to very few platforms...
22:48 _metaperl and is arduous to build
22:48 v has left "Client Exiting"
22:48 _metaperl are hyperoperators implmented?
22:49 nothingmuch yes
22:49 nothingmuch you can get a good assessment on what is really OK and what is todo by looking at http://pugs.kwiki.org/?SmokedPugs
22:49 puetzk nothingmuch: answered in /query
22:50 nothingmuch ah, that's why the dock icon was bouncing =)
22:50 nothingmuch sorry, the window was minimized
22:50 puetzk np, I just figured you might not have seen it
22:50 puetzk I can post here if anyone else cares about bike saddles :-)
22:53 _metaperl smoked pugs --- that makes me laugh!
23:05 ninereasons many of the tests are very educational.  iblech's work is especially nicely commented and referenced.
23:06 nothingmuch iblech++
23:06 ninereasons iblech++ # indeed
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23:26 _metaperl ninereasons, which ones are nicely commented?
23:28 ninereasons iblech often puts some explanation of what he's testing, in the proximity of the tests; and, if a test is referenced, chances are good that it was iblech that added the reference.
23:28 ninereasons and I find his result comments to be clear
23:29 ninereasons references are particularly nice in the smoke results, because they are links there.
23:32 osfameron has quit IRC ("Leaving")
23:35 ninereasons t/builtins/die_and_end.t , for example, _metaperl
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