Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-05-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 webmind that sounds horrible confusing ?
00:01 sahadev has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:01 arcady iff is like an if that goes both ways
00:01 arcady if a then b and if b then a
00:01 Juerd arcady: That doesn't seem to be true in the places where I read iff.
00:01 arcady where is that?
00:01 Juerd p6l
00:02 arcady hm.
00:02 pjcj no, I think it is used correctly: "Clearly, xor is true iff *exactly* one of its arguments is true"
00:03 arcady example of proper usage: a number is divisible by 5 iff its last digit is 5 or 0
00:03 pjcj which is also why it can't short circuit
00:03 arcady yeah
00:03 Juerd pjcj: Oh, duh, I for some reason confused short circuiting with returning the true value
00:04 arcady I still say perl6 should have a short-circuiting xor
00:04 nothingmuch =)
00:05 nothingmuch to make our semantics even "cooler" we could autothread xor
00:05 arcady well, or just use magic
00:05 nothingmuch then we can eval both args together
00:06 nothingmuch instead of short circuiting we have something more akin to copper wires melting together
00:06 nothingmuch it's just as safe, too!
00:08 nothingmuch we could have a whole array of 'fuse-free' operators
00:08 nothingmuch where newbies can get burned
00:08 Juerd Let's make every operator dangerous by default
00:08 nothingmuch then we'd be nearly as good as pascal!
00:09 Juerd "Of course they're not friendly to you. Treat them with respect, show them some love! Cuddle them, ((+)) and you'll see everything will just do what you want!"
00:09 nothingmuch huraah!
00:10 pjcj use AntiStaticWristStrap;
00:10 Juerd Which of course results in $fh((.))say((("Hello, ")) ((~)) $world)((;))
00:10 Juerd We have (op) and {op} still available
00:10 nothingmuch that looks like lisp, except that the oatmeal/toenails are all over the place
00:10 Juerd What shall we think of for these meta operators?
00:14 nothingmuch good night
00:14 Juerd nn
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02:01 ingy ola
02:02 pmichaud hello
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02:13 ingy hi pmichaud
02:13 ingy I need to leave irc and  hack it hard
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02:22 meppl gute nacht
02:23 robkinyon has joined #perl6
02:24 robkinyon I have a question ...
02:24 pmichaud ask away
02:25 robkinyon I've figured out how to fix a bug on Cygwin, but I don't know enough Haskell to make the fix work
02:25 pmichaud ah, I'm definitely not the one to ask about that -- I'm not doing much of the haskell stuff
02:25 robkinyon :-(
02:25 pmichaud I leave that to autrijus :-)
02:26 robkinyon I emailed P6-compiler, but was Warnocked
02:26 crysflame Warnocked?
02:26 robkinyon The thread died
02:26 pmichaud oh, I can definitely help with warnocking
02:26 pmichaud what was the topic?
02:26 crysflame etymology
02:26 crysflame also hi :)
02:26 pmichaud or when was the post?
02:27 robkinyon 1 sec
02:27 robkinyon "Pugs on Cygwin" is the subject
02:27 robkinyon crysflame - Andy Warnock was a guy who posted a lot on p5p and no-one ever responded. Became a running joke.
02:28 pmichaud well, it's a little soon to assume it was warnocked -- usually warnock would imply more than a day or so :)
02:28 robkinyon Thread was started May 2nd.
02:28 robkinyon 22 hours since my last post on how to fix Cygwin
02:28 robkinyon :-)
02:28 obra also, it's friday
02:29 robkinyon I was hoping to get it fixed this evening.
02:29 pmichaud saturday
02:29 robkinyon :-(
02:29 pmichaud where many of the perl6 folks are, it's saturday
02:29 pmichaud s/perl6/pugs/
02:29 obra and they just went to bed a couple hours ago ;)
02:29 robkinyon ah
02:30 robkinyon *shrugs* Oh, well
02:30 pmichaud give it another day and see if there's still no response.  Or keep asking here
02:30 robkinyon can i ask again now?
02:30 * robkinyon winks
02:30 pmichaud if you still haven't gotten a response by Sunday then I'll post it directly to the folks
02:32 crysflame oh, ok
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02:43 Juerd It's 4:46 am here
02:43 Juerd And I'm going to bed
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03:08 stevan robkinyon: ping
03:08 stevan ingy: ping
03:09 ingy pongish
03:10 ingy what's up  stevan
03:10 stevan ingy: I am looking for the kwid docs that used to be in docs/
03:10 ingy hmmm
03:11 stevan basically I hacked a quick Kwid parser (event based like the POD one I did)
03:11 stevan it works, so-so
03:11 ingy nice
03:11 stevan but I need to know more kwid-ish to finish it
03:12 stevan basically it parsed all of the Test.pm kwid (mostly) correctly up until the last line or so
03:12 ingy I find only these files:
03:12 ingy ./docs/class/mission-statement.kwid
03:12 ingy ./docs/src/Junc.kwid
03:12 ingy ./docs/yaht.kwid
03:12 ingy ./examples/games/hangman.kwid
03:13 stevan yeah I am looking for that kwid.kwid you did back in the early days of pugs
03:13 ingy not sure if there were more
03:13 ingy I'm working on my Kwid parser now actually
03:13 stevan the ones about kwid itself :)
03:13 ingy they might've got moved to freepan
03:13 stevan ok I will check there
03:15 ingy http://tpe.freepan.org/repos/ingy/Pugs-Documentation/
03:15 ingy is somewhat empty
03:15 ingy grrr
03:15 robkinyon yes, stevan?
03:15 stevan hey rob :)
03:15 ingy fyi, gugod and I will be hacking on Freepan next week
03:15 robkinyon haskell isn't easy to read
03:16 ingy need to go shopping...
03:16 ingy &
03:16 stevan robkinyon: I have to agree, but the more i read the more i understand
03:16 stevan ingy: thanks, i will keep looking
03:16 robkinyon only been reading it for like 15min :-)
03:16 stevan robkinyon: $ has to do with Monads
03:16 robkinyon Ok ... is that important?
03:16 stevan robkinyon: it took me a long time to figure that out :P
03:17 robkinyon heh
03:17 stevan robkinyon: it is, but in what way, I am still trying to grok :)
03:17 Khisanth robkinyon: Perl isn't easyto read either :)
03:18 robkinyon 10 minutes makes haskell hard to read. 10 years makes perl easy to read. :-)
03:24 sproingie $ has nothing to do with monads
03:24 stevan sproingie: really? what is it for then?
03:24 sproingie in haskell?  it's a grouping operator
03:24 stevan it always seems to be around monads
03:25 stevan sproingie: can you explain more please? I am still learning
03:28 sproingie argh, been so bloody long
03:28 sproingie if i explain it, i'll probably get it wrong
03:28 * robkinyon waves
03:29 stevan sproingie: ok, well just to know it is not monad related helps
03:30 sproingie naw it's simpler.  it's basically an infix apply operator
03:30 sproingie damn tutorials dont seem to cover it tho
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03:30 stevan sproingie: hmmm, that was one of my earliest suspicions actually, but for some reason I decided it was something else
03:33 sproingie yah it's apply.   f $ x  is the same as f x
03:33 sproingie but it's lower precedence
03:34 stevan sproingie: so how does that change the order of evaluation (or does it not change it)
03:34 sproingie so "foo bar $ baz frotz"  is the same as (foo bar) (baz frotz)
03:34 stevan sproingie: ahhhh, I see
03:35 sproingie which lets you do stuff like pipelines
03:35 sproingie sorta ... still reverse order
03:35 stevan so it makes sure that each side evaluates in full
03:35 stevan before applying to one another
03:35 sproingie yep
03:35 stevan sproingie: you have shed new light on this code for me :)
03:36 stevan sproingie++
03:36 sproingie so you could write something like  "map uppercase (words mystring)" to "map uppercase $ words mystring"
03:36 sproingie http://conal.net/pan/haskell-primer.htm
03:36 sproingie one of the few primers that covers $
03:37 stevan thanks :)
03:37 sproingie it doesnt force evaluation, it's lazy like everything else
03:37 stevan yes, but forces the order of eval, right?
03:37 sproingie it's just syntactic shorthand for what you'd otherwise have to use parens for
03:37 sproingie i guess yeah, it forces the order
03:37 sproingie right to left
03:39 sproingie i've heard of similar tricks in C++ using the shift operators
03:39 sproingie since they're also low precedence and right associative
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04:03 jabbot pugs - 2801 - cleaning up some of the kwid docs
04:03 jabbot pugs - 2802 - updating the changelog
04:03 jabbot pugs - 2803 - made change to reflect some recent Perl
04:03 jabbot pugs - 2804 - adding the haskell mini-primer, which ta
04:03 jabbot pugs - 2805 - adding in the first (still buggy) versio
04:04 sproingie does pugs do objects yet?
04:05 Limbic_Region coming soon
04:05 stevan sproingie: not proper ones :)
04:05 Limbic_Region of course - you could always get on board with "using OO before it existed"
04:06 Limbic_Region stevan - did you get a chance to look at the hash reference potential bug?
04:06 sproingie would have a hard time with getting "self" passed in right
04:07 sproingie unless you can curry a sub
04:07 sproingie with a reference to the hash that contains it
04:07 sproingie hm.  come to think of it that would be possible in perl5
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06:34 gaal ping -1
06:35 gaal the build is broken on cygwin.
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07:56 Aankhen`` perl Makefile.PL is sure taking a long time. :-(
07:57 scook0 worked fine for me not so long ago...
07:57 Aankhen`` r2805 here, if that makes a difference.
07:57 scook0 r2805 here too -- but I didn't notice anything
07:57 Aankhen`` What's your system's config
07:57 Aankhen`` ?
07:58 scook0 Ubuntu Hoary - Perl 5.8.4 - Duron 700 - 256MB ram
07:58 scook0 I'll try it again just to be sure...
07:58 Aankhen`` That's strange...
07:58 Aankhen`` I'm running on Windows XP - Perl 5.8.6 - AMD Athlon XP 2000+ - 512MB RAM.
07:59 scook0 I just ran it again -- works fine for me
07:59 Aankhen`` Ah well.
07:59 Aankhen`` It's over and done with now.
07:59 scook0 weird
07:59 scook0 this never happened before?
07:59 Aankhen`` Well, of late it's been taking a while.
07:59 Aankhen`` I haven't built in a couple of days.
08:00 * scook0 is stumped
08:01 Aankhen`` Ah, it's alright.
08:01 Aankhen`` Not a big deal.
08:01 Aankhen`` I'm just a whiner.
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08:13 jabbot pugs - 2806 - * when `eval_parrot` is passed any strin
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09:53 jabbot pugs - 2807 - * Added EOLs at EOFs to src/ and ext/.
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10:28 meppl guten morgen
10:53 jabbot pugs - 2808 - * Change Syck.hs to Syck.hsc to get rid
10:53 jabbot pugs - 2809 - * Note "make unoptimized" in Makefile.PL
10:53 jabbot pugs - 2810 - Minor fixes to mklivecd.pl.
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11:03 jabbot pugs - 2811 - Updated tsanta.p6 to use unique filename
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11:18 scook0 autrijus: ping
11:21 scook0 I think r2808 broke make... "Could not find module `Data.Yaml.Syck'"
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11:53 jabbot pugs - 2812 - Initial Haddocks for Bind
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12:23 jabbot pugs - 2813 - Added a nice welcome screen to the live
12:24 Corion (build is broken for me too, even after a wiped src/ )
12:25 Corion r2813, that is
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12:33 Corion Yo broquaint !
12:43 jabbot pugs - 2814 - Small optical fixes to mklivecd.pl.
12:44 Corion "mklivecd.pl" ? Do we now have PugsOS, based on HaskellOS ? :)
12:45 Corion Indeed. Curiouser and curiouser
12:47 nothingmuch http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~hallgren/House/
12:49 Corion nothingmuch: This seems to call for an emergency port of the Perl Power Tools, so we get an unixlike environment ;)
12:50 nothingmuch to perl 6 or to haskell?
12:50 Corion nothingmuch: I would prefer Perl6 ;)
12:50 nothingmuch heh
12:50 Corion nothingmuch: It would be larger than Busybox, but ;)
12:51 Corion (it wouldn't be GPL-encumbered either, and doesn't need static linking, or other weird tricks)
12:51 Corion nothingmuch: The PPT isn't really complete... But I believe it's got a working tar, and with LWP::Simple, we could fake a half-working wget ;)
12:52 Corion ... so all we'd need is make. And, maybe, a shell.
12:52 nothingmuch well, you're free to start ;-)
12:52 * nothingmuch is too busy to give pugs any real time
12:53 Corion nothingmuch: Heh. Well, I think I won't. At least, not today, as I've moved a piano around, and have to party the evening. And in the meantime, fetch some groceries, and stuff. Too bad ;) Oh. And I have to work on the DB/model for my MUD/system-interface-database (thus combining $play and $work)
12:54 nothingmuch well, have fun
12:54 nothingmuch i have to go teach pascal
12:54 nothingmuch *whine*
12:55 Corion nothingmuch: Ah, Pascal isn't that bad IMO - and I programmed in it for ten years or so ...
12:56 nothingmuch i hate it... never got any benefit from it
12:56 nothingmuch all it did is lower my scores on my tests
12:56 nothingmuch (counted arrays from 0 instead of 1 for example)
12:56 nothingmuch and now it's making it difficult for me to teach
12:57 nothingmuch =P
13:00 Corion Ah, well - Pascal has the nice feature of letting you define your index types for arrays. type tWheel = (whlLeftFront,whlLeftBack,whlRightFront,whlRightBack); var Tires : Array[ tWheel ] of tTire;
13:01 Corion (which made sure you couldn't use Just any integer...)
13:01 Corion But I'm sure you'll manage to transfer your enthusiasm to your pupils :)
13:01 nothingmuch in a 1st year intro to pascal you don't write such things
13:01 nothingmuch heck, I don't even know it
13:01 nothingmuch i'm teaching programming
13:01 nothingmuch not pascal
13:02 nothingmuch but I have to use pascal to teach programming, and it's slowing me and her down
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13:23 jabbot pugs - 2815 - Reduced the default initrd size.
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13:40 autrijus hm
13:40 autrijus is build still broken for you guys?
13:41 Corion autrijus: Yep, but will recheck
13:41 Corion yep
13:41 Corion r2815
13:41 Corion Could not find module `Data.Yaml.Syck':
13:42 nothingmuch seems like it's building for me
13:42 Corion nothingmuch: What did you do? Should I wipe src/ again, to be on the safe side?
13:42 * Corion nukes src/ from orbit
13:42 nothingmuch i dunno
13:42 nothingmuch just the smoke loop
13:42 nothingmuch the last build is 3 hours old
13:42 autrijus fixed
13:43 Corion Hmmm. There is src/Data/Yaml/Syck.hsc - maybe my GHC doesn't like .hsc and wants .hs ?
13:43 autrijus r2816. sorries.
13:43 autrijus Corion: right, the .hs needs to be in @srcfiles
13:43 Corion Aaah.
13:43 autrijus jhorwitz hard coded it for Parrot.hsc
13:43 autrijus which is bad
13:43 autrijus so I fixed it generally
13:43 Corion Build in progress now
13:43 autrijus cool
13:43 jabbot pugs - 2816 - * fix build by explicitly include hsc in
13:44 Corion My arms hurt. I shouldn't help people when moving. Especially when pianos are involved. Or even a single piano.
13:44 autrijus aww.
13:44 * autrijus , meanwhile, is studying Ruby's internals
13:44 Corion autrijus: Well, better the arms hurt from lifting than from RSI :)
13:45 autrijus they got lots of things right
13:45 Corion autrijus: You are a mad mad person. Rubys internals are ugly.
13:45 nothingmuch ciao!
13:45 autrijus uh. compared to perl5...
13:45 Corion I thought the parser and evaluator were a tightly intertwined mess?
13:45 autrijus is perl5 not like that? :)
13:46 Corion autrijus: Yes, but nobody looks at the Perl5 internals for fun, right? Well, I know one person, Yves Orton, who looks at the RE engine for fun, but otherwise ...
13:46 autrijus sadly I do, too
13:46 autrijus <- responsible for many Tolkien poetry comments there, too
13:46 scook0 autrijus: build is fixed for me now -- cheers!
13:46 Corion Oh - btw, he did some cool Trie optimization for Perl5 - is there any chance of Just moving these patches over to PCRE, or are Perl5 and PCRE totally different RE engines?
13:47 autrijus complete different
13:47 autrijus scook0: thanks and sorry
13:47 Corion autrijus: Too bad ... He's now working on even better enhancements to the Perl5 engine... Is the long-term plan to keep PCRE, or will we reimplement P5 REs as P6 rules?
13:47 Corion "we" -- heh
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13:49 autrijus Corion: I think keep pcre up until p6rules can emulate p5
13:50 scook0 autrijus: I was planning on picking your brain, but I think I'll get some sleep instead
13:50 Corion autrijus: Yeah - that is, "ditch as soon as possible, but no sooner" ;)
13:50 autrijus pcre is lightweight and fast... the only thing it can't do is (?{})
13:50 autrijus scook0: go sleep then :)
13:50 Juerd autrijus: And (??{}) ;)
13:50 scook0 see you later
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13:53 jabbot pugs - 2817 - More Haddocks for Bind
13:54 autrijus nothingmuch: any chance of adding a "make haddock" run to make smoke run?
13:55 autrijus and put the docs/haddock/* somewhere on the web
13:55 autrijus that way I can point people there easily
13:55 Juerd Is there a short guide that explains how to get parrot and pugs to know eachother?
13:55 autrijus Juerd: sure. it goes like this
13:55 autrijus export PUGS_EMBED=parrot
13:55 autrijus cd pugs
13:55 autrijus perl Makefile.PL
13:55 autrijus make
13:55 autrijus ./pugs -e 'eval_parrot("print 123")'
13:55 Juerd Where does it get parrot from, then?
13:56 autrijus Juerd: it gets it from ../parrot/
13:56 Juerd Ah, thanks
13:56 autrijus if not there, then you need to set PARROT_PATH but Makefile.PL will tell you that
13:56 autrijus bbiab
14:01 * nothingmuch pops in for a second, and notices highlight word...
14:01 nothingmuch autrijus: i'll look at it
14:06 autrijus thanks
14:07 nothingmuch i was planning on doing that, but it wasn't ready yet
14:07 nothingmuch at the time
14:07 * nothingmuch needs a vacation
14:09 nothingmuch haddock didn't compile out of the box, i'll look at it later
14:09 nothingmuch now I have to go again
14:10 Corion r2816 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html - 4764 ok, 61 failed, 899 todo
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14:19 gaal th build is still broken for me.
14:19 autrijus rerun Makefile.PL?
14:19 gaal but i did convert from fat32 to ntfs recently, maybe i have some weird permissions problem
14:19 gaal autrijus, did, of course.
14:20 autrijus what was the error?
14:20 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "cygwin build error" (5 lines, 265B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9985
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14:21 cognominal do ghc, parrot and pugs withstand gcc4.0?
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14:21 autrijus cognominal: no idea
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14:22 cognominal I got gcc 4.0 by default on madnriva cooker
14:22 autrijus gaal: what happens when you run that by hand?
14:22 autrijus cognominal: cool, then you can try
14:22 gaal the same.
14:22 gaal strace doesn't work i'm afraid.
14:22 autrijus gaal: -I src/syck instead of -Isrc?
14:23 autrijus drop the -o?
14:23 autrijus just /c/apps/ghc/ghc-6.4/bin/hsc2hs  -Isrc/syck  src/Pugs/Embed/Parrot.hsc
14:23 gaal the last suggestion works.
14:24 autrijus I attempted a fix. try r2818
14:25 gaal (re co'ing to make sure it's clean)
14:25 gaal on unix shells, does * not glob hidden files? i don't understand how rm -rf * works otherwise.
14:26 gaal autrijus, your fix works. thanks!
14:26 autrijus np
14:26 autrijus right, * does not glob files beginning with dot.
14:27 gaal is that the case in newish p5 File::Glob::glob as well?
14:27 autrijus yes.
14:27 * gaal makes a mental note to readdir the next time
14:28 autrijus you can glob for .* *
14:30 gaal good point, but now i'm beginning to wonder if maybe this breaks on huge directories?
14:30 autrijus probably not.
14:30 autrijus not under File::Glob, at least
14:32 gaal wow, the difference between build times for optimized and non- makes is huge.
14:33 gaal hey, and someobedy fixed 'make smoke' not to relink needlessly! somebody++
14:33 jabbot pugs - 2818 - * fix hsc2hs for cygwin
14:33 jabbot pugs - 2819 - Added a really small logbot.
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14:37 autrijus ours is a project full of somebodies :)
14:38 gaal however, the yaml harness now overeagerly looks for test output in concurrency mode. :)
14:43 jabbot pugs - 2820 - * Dropped "add_command_handler" and "add
14:45 gaal http://forum2.org/gaal/pugs/smoke-cygwin.html r2818 1unexok
14:49 Juerd gaal: That's your chance to be somebody ;)
14:49 lightstep has joined #perl6
14:50 gaal i'm looking into the concurrency issue (which doesn't happen when -j is specified on the command line)
14:50 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
14:58 drbean I can't sync a remote svk repos on which I did a delete and mkdir
14:58 drbean sorry. Wrong channel
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15:05 gaal okay, this is rather odd.
15:06 gaal the problem happens ony in run-smoke.pl, not vanilla yaml-harness.pl.
15:06 gaal and then, only when you run the smoke with the PUGS_SMOKE_UPLOAD env option.
15:07 gaal it looks like when you do that with concurrency on, the call to system that runs the harness finishes before all tests are gathered.
15:07 gaal impossible, i know.
15:08 gaal but like i said, when PUGS_SMOKE_OPTION is not set, this does not happen.
15:09 gaal so what the user sees is that testgraph is started before the last chunk of tests completes; testgraph naturally fails.
15:10 gaal talk about voodoo fork emulation :)
15:10 gaal could someone with SMP and a real OS please check to see whether this happens?
15:11 misc_ test what ?
15:11 gaal env PUGS_TESTS_CONCURRENT=3 PUGS_SMOKE_UPLOAD='echo 23412341324' make smoke
15:11 misc_ gaal: from svn snapshot ?
15:11 gaal and see if you end up with a 'smoke.html'.
15:11 gaal yes.
15:12 misc_ mhh, ok, i just need to grab one :)
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15:12 gaal thanks
15:14 gaal (you don't really need SMP, it just makes things faster. smoke on my linux box with make unoptimized takes 24 minutes):
15:15 misc_ mhh, too bad, i have smp, i tought it was related to some concurency issue
15:15 gaal has anyone used colinux here? i wonder if it's worth the trouble to set up properly.
15:16 gaal misc_, it is, but not so tightly that you really need more than one cpu.
15:26 misc_ gaal: some cpan modules are missing
15:27 gaal cpan Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix and allow it to fetch deps please
15:27 misc_ yes, i am on it :)
15:29 Limbic_Region stevan ping
15:29 Limbic_Region salutations all
15:30 misc_ gaal: make test doesn't work
15:31 gaal try make smoke like in the line above
15:31 gaal wait, waht platform are you on?
15:31 misc_ gaal: linux, mdk cooker
15:31 misc_ 5.8.6
15:31 misc_ ( perl version )
15:32 gaal interesting, wht doesn't make test work, what does it say?
15:32 misc_ t/uri...............ok 2/12Can't locate object method "new" via package "Test::TAP::Model::File::Visual" at t/uri.t line 29.
15:32 gaal oh, T:T:M's make test :)
15:33 gaal T:T:Htm really
15:33 gaal looking.
15:33 misc_ oh yes, sorry , i forget to precise
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15:35 Shillo Hullo, all. :)
15:37 stevan Limbic_Region: pog
15:37 stevan pong
15:39 Limbic_Region pog
15:39 Limbic_Region hmmm
15:39 stevan Limbic_Region: I have not had time to investigate the hash issue sorry
15:39 Limbic_Region no worries
15:39 Limbic_Region are you using svn or svk?
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15:40 stevan svn
15:40 gaal misc_, this worksforme but i am investigating. can you force install in the meantime, just so we can double check the pugs bugs?
15:40 gaal pugs bug that is.
15:40 misc_ gaal: ok
15:40 Limbic_Region hmmm
15:40 Limbic_Region I am wondering why svk log isn't working correctly
15:40 Limbic_Region it tells me log is too big - starting from revision 5
15:41 Limbic_Region and it only lists a couple of revisions
15:41 * Limbic_Region tries to remember who else is using svk
15:41 stevan Limbic_Region: maybe try limiting the revisions?
15:41 Limbic_Region nothing I tried worked
15:41 Limbic_Region svk help log
15:41 Limbic_Region -l
15:41 Limbic_Region -r
15:41 Limbic_Region etc
15:42 gaal misc_, did the cpan run install Test::TAP::Model for you successfully prior to the error you saw?
15:43 jabbot pugs - 2821 - * Automated nick permuting if chosen nic
15:43 jabbot pugs - 2822 - Updated ext/Algorithm-TokenBucket/Change
15:43 jabbot pugs - 2823 - * Updated svn:ignores in src/.
15:44 misc_ gaal: yes, i think, i didn't see anything suspicious
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15:45 gaal because ->new comes from Test::TAP::Model::File, which you oughta have had installed.
15:46 gaal what does this say?   perl -MTest::TAP::Model::File -e1
15:47 misc_ cannot locate the module
15:48 misc_ however, i used install as simple user, maybe i am missing something
15:48 gaal i think you are missing superuser privs :)
15:49 gaal ....and cpan is missing a peek at META.yml, which does require T:T:M :(
15:49 gaal (your cpan shell that is)
15:50 misc_ should'nt it also work as simple user ?
15:50 gaal brb
15:50 gaal depending on where your perl looks for modules.
15:51 Khisanth you can add some paths to PERL5LIB
15:58 gaal b
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16:03 stevan hmmm, an odd bug maybe
16:03 stevan pugs -e 'my @a = 1, 2, 3; say isa(@a, @a);'
16:03 stevan it returns undef
16:03 stevan shouldn't that fail?
16:04 stevan and this:
16:04 stevan pugs -e 'my @a = 1, 2, 3; say isa(@a, ("Array" | "List"));'
16:04 stevan returns 'any(1)'
16:05 Limbic_Region right - which is something I don't like very much
16:06 Limbic_Region i.e. - boolean true false but not "what matched"
16:06 stevan Limbic_Region: but that isnt even a boolean
16:06 stevan it is a junction
16:06 stevan (which matches any true boolean)
16:06 stevan which I suppose is acceptable, but I would expect a true boolean
16:06 Limbic_Region hmmm
16:07 Limbic_Region first one not sure
16:07 lightstep has quit IRC ("leaving")
16:07 Limbic_Region second one - depends on if isa() is specced fully yet
16:08 stevan Limbic_Region: I am consulting the bible on it right now
16:08 * stevan starts mumbling in latin and dips some unleavened bread into a cup of grape juice
16:08 misc_ gaal: no, i see another error : Argument ">= 0.03" isn't numeric in numeric eq (==) at /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.6/CPAN.pm line 4623.
16:09 misc_ gaal: i have foolowed the faqq of CPAN.pm and perl module are installed in ~/myperl, PERL5LIB is correct too
16:10 stevan Limbic_Region: it seems (if you look at the Introspection section of S12), that .isa() should actually do many more things that it currently does.
16:10 stevan However, before I go off an write tests, I am going to see if I cannot find more details on @arr.isa()
16:10 misc_ gaal: in fact, it seems that Test::TAP::Model doesn't install, with ; t/comprehensive....ok 22/113Operation `eq': no method found,  
16:12 Limbic_Region stevan - I lack the motivation to do anything ATM
16:12 Limbic_Region so "you go"
16:12 stevan Limbic_Region: :) I will (at least until the coffee wears off)
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16:20 stevan Juerd: ping
16:22 Limbic_Region Does this behavior make sense to anyone?
16:22 Limbic_Region my %hash;  %hash<foo> = hash {}; for values %hash { say }
16:23 Limbic_Region or even better
16:23 Limbic_Region my %hash; %hash<foo> = hash {}; %hash<foo><bar> = 42; for values %hash { say }
16:25 stevan Limbic_Region: it makes sense, but doesnt seem to work right :)
16:26 stevan oddly enough (not really that odd, it's just auto-vivification) this work: pugs -e 'my %hash; %hash<foo>; %hash<foo><bar> = 42; for values %hash { say }'
16:26 stevan as does this: pugs -e 'my %hash; %hash<foo>; %hash<foo> = { bar => 42 }; for values %hash { say }'
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16:27 Limbic_Region stevan - I don't think so
16:27 stevan and this too
16:27 stevan pugs -e 'my %hash; %hash<foo> = hash; %hash<foo><bar> = 42; for values %hash { say }'
16:27 Limbic_Region consider
16:27 stevan I think the {} is getting interpreted as a sub
16:27 Limbic_Region my %hash;  %hash<foo> //= hash {}; print ref %hash<foo>;
16:28 stevan pugs -e 'my %hash;  %hash<foo> //= hash {}; say ref %hash<foo>; say %hash<foo>'
16:28 stevan Array
16:28 stevan <SubBlock(<anon>)>
16:28 stevan it looks like the "hash" does nothing
16:29 Limbic_Region which it is supposed to
16:29 stevan and the {} is treated as a block
16:29 Limbic_Region right
16:29 Limbic_Region so WTF Array?
16:29 Limbic_Region I already have submitted a test that partially exposes this
16:29 stevan what do you see as the bug? in "hash"?
16:31 Limbic_Region at least in hash
16:31 Limbic_Region but I still can't see why ref sees an empty anonymous sub as an array either
16:31 Limbic_Region which it doesn't in other cases
16:32 Limbic_Region so I don't know where the Array is coming from
16:32 Limbic_Region and here is something that is really weird
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16:32 Limbic_Region pugs -e "my $foo = hash {}; say ref $foo; # Hash"
16:32 stevan pugs -e 'my %hash;  %hash<foo> //= {}; say ref %hash<foo>; say %hash<foo>'
16:32 stevan this prints # Block
16:33 stevan it seems that 'hash {}' is interpreted as 2 elements
16:33 stevan does "hash" return anything?
16:33 Limbic_Region ahhhhh
16:33 Limbic_Region interesting
16:33 Limbic_Region this does the right thing pugs -e "my $foo = hash {}; say ref $foo; # Hash"
16:33 stevan pugs -e 'say ref hash' # prints Hash
16:34 Limbic_Region well, my brain just isn't working ATM
16:34 * Limbic_Region wanders off to listen to some classic rock and wishes everyone happy hacking
16:35 stevan :)
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16:51 Limbic_Region stevan - WRT %hash<foo> = hash {}; # being seen as two items, you are correct though I think it is incorrect behavior
16:51 Limbic_Region pugs -e "my %hash; %hash<foo> = hash({}); say ref %hash<foo>;"
16:51 Limbic_Region Hash
16:55 stevan Limbic_Region: ah hah
16:55 stevan so it looks as if the parser is getting confused
16:56 Limbic_Region yeah - so my test does indeed expose a bug - just not the one I thought
16:56 Limbic_Region and I think that explains the other behavior I couldn't track down because it disapeared when I wrote a minimal test case
16:57 Limbic_Region so with that - there is only 1 other thing I think is still wrong
16:57 Limbic_Region hash refs as values to keys should modify the hash they reference when properly dereferenced
16:58 stevan Limbic_Region: I am still not sure about the details of auto-de-ref-ing myself
16:58 Limbic_Region well - I am not sure I am doing it right
16:58 Limbic_Region consider
16:58 stevan Limbic_Region: re: the hash {} vs. hash({}) test case, please label it :todo<parsefail>
16:58 Limbic_Region pugs -e "my %foo; my %bar=('key'=>\%foo); say ref %bar<key>;"
16:59 Limbic_Region that prints Scalar
16:59 Limbic_Region pugs -e "my %foo; my $bar= \%foo; say ref $bar;"
16:59 Limbic_Region that says Hash
17:00 stevan pugs -e "my %foo = ('baz' => 42); my %bar=('key'=> %foo); say ref %bar<key>;"
17:00 stevan print 'Pair'
17:00 stevan and so does this
17:00 stevan pugs -e "my %foo = ('baz' => 42, 'baz' => 2); my %bar=('key'=> %foo); say ref %bar<key>;"
17:00 Limbic_Region *shrug* dunno if that's wrong or right but isn't what I am after
17:01 stevan same issue when I put the \%foo in there as well
17:01 stevan I think the Hash and Pair types are still not totally finished
17:01 Limbic_Region ok - so where do you think the hash parsefail test should go?
17:02 Limbic_Region and why label it as :todo<parsefail> ?
17:02 stevan beacuse that is what it is :)
17:02 stevan at least I am pretty sure it is
17:02 Limbic_Region right - but why not just leaving it as failing
17:02 Limbic_Region since it doesn't fail to parse
17:02 Limbic_Region it just fails to parse correctly
17:03 stevan Limbic_Region: well actually if you put it in t/pugsbugs I suppose you can leave it failing
17:03 stevan I guess I am just in the habit of labeling things TODO now
17:03 Limbic_Region ok - so the io test that is failing should go into pugsbugs too?
17:04 Limbic_Region since I intentionally left that as failing too
17:04 stevan Limbic_Region: well this is a good question
17:04 stevan I think behavior which is truely a bug, should go in an isolated pugsbugs test
17:05 stevan and maybe after it is fixed, can be moved into a more approriate location
17:05 Limbic_Region ok
17:05 Limbic_Region will move 2 tests to pugsbugs and add 1 more
17:05 stevan ok
17:06 stevan alright, lunch time for me :)
17:06 stevan &
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17:13 robkinyon has joined #perl6
17:13 robkinyon Any lambda'ers around?
17:13 chady has joined #perl6
17:13 jabbot pugs - 2824 - Added a small "Monads in Perl 6" example
17:13 jabbot pugs - 2825 - [BUG] Found another bug concerning map a
17:15 * robkinyon peers about
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17:39 Limbic_Region grrr - today isn't working out
17:39 chady has quit IRC ("leaving")
17:40 Limbic_Region perlbot nopaste
17:40 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
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17:43 elmex wohooo
17:43 elmex perlsex
17:46 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 69.250.48.119 pasted "svk is blowing up on me when attempting to check in - would appreciate someone making the following test changes" (226 lines, 5.7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/9993
17:47 Limbic_Region If someone could make those changes for me I would be really appreciative
17:47 Limbic_Region in the meantime - I am going to kill this computer
17:47 Limbic_Region TTFN
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17:50 robkinyon any lambda'ers around?
17:50 pupilzeng has quit IRC ("See you!")
17:51 sorje robkinyon, what do you need lambda'ers for? ;-)
17:51 robkinyon i have a fix for Pugs on Cygwin, but it requires changes to Prim.hs and I don't know haskell
17:51 robkinyon I'm fixing pugscc to work on cygwin, but that's Perl
17:53 * robkinyon sighs
18:00 elmex does the parrot backend work again? ;-) *G*
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18:13 jabbot pugs - 2826 - Applied Limbic_Region's test fixes with
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18:43 jabbot pugs - 2827 - * C-based PGE is now obsolete.
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18:53 jabbot pugs - 2828 - * remove unused variable in sieve.p6.
18:54 Limbic_Region iblech ping
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19:06 Limbic_Region wonder why iblech thought the io_finalize tests would create but not delete the file
19:06 * Limbic_Region also wonders why the t/pugsbugs/parse_hash_ref.t test didn't get checked in
19:07 Limbic_Region wonder if my %h1; my %h2; %h2<key> = \%h1; # isn't a bug
19:07 Limbic_Region but
19:07 Limbic_Region my %h1; my %h2 = ( 'key' => \%h1 ); # is a bug
19:08 Limbic_Region since they do different things
19:12 revdiablo what's the bug?
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19:13 jabbot pugs - 2829 - * if it's pod... call it pod. :)
19:13 jabbot pugs - 2830 - Changed t/pugsbugs/io_finalize tests bac
19:14 wolverian I thought just assigning it without the explicit \ is enough in perl6.
19:15 Limbic_Region revdiablo - in the latter case - it ref %h2<key> says Scalar
19:15 Limbic_Region in the former - it says Hash
19:15 Limbic_Region IOW - assigning a reference to a hash as a value to a hash key when creating the hash breaks
19:15 Limbic_Region doing it after the fact works
19:16 Limbic_Region I had a pugsbugs test for it - but iblech didn't check it in (my svk kept blowing up until I hit it with a LART)
19:16 Limbic_Region so was wondering if it wasn't a bug afterall but just a mistake in my reasoning
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19:17 Limbic_Region wolverian - regardless, I think there is a bug
19:17 Limbic_Region since
19:17 Limbic_Region my %h1; my $h_ref = \%h1; my %h2 = ('key' => $h_ref); # also says Scalar
19:17 Limbic_Region but
19:18 Limbic_Region ref $h_ref; # says Hash
19:18 pasteling "revdiablo" at 66.218.36.163 pasted "Limbic_Region -- this is what I see from Pugs" (4 lines, 165B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9995
19:18 revdiablo I get Pair, not Scalar
19:18 revdiablo heh
19:19 revdiablo maybe something has changed, my pugs is more than 24 hours old
19:19 Limbic_Region let me test again here locally
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19:21 Limbic_Region revdiablo - my test is a bit different then yours
19:21 Limbic_Region let me see what I get when I run yours exactly
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19:22 Limbic_Region revdiablo - when creating %h1 - try just my %h1;
19:23 revdiablo ah yeah, Scalar
19:24 robkinyon any lambda'ers around?
19:24 Limbic_Region revdiablo - further more - even with your version that says Pair - you still can't modify %h1 by dereferencing %h2
19:24 Limbic_Region TIAS
19:26 revdiablo *nod* there's definitely something weird going on
19:27 Limbic_Region but if you don't try and do it when defining the hash (after the fact) - it works as expected
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19:28 revdiablo if you do: my %h1; my %h2; my %h3 = ("h1" => \%h1, "h2" => \%h2); say ref %h3<h1>;
19:28 revdiablo it says List, and still doesn't work
19:28 revdiablo heh
19:29 chromatic has joined #perl6
19:29 revdiablo maybe more stuff to add to your tests
19:29 Limbic_Region salutations chromatic
19:29 chromatic Howdy.
19:29 chromatic Who wants P6 Test::Builder?
19:29 obra hey chromatic
19:29 chromatic Hello.
19:29 Limbic_Region revdiablo - I assume that when the underlying problem is fixed that the weird results from ref() will disapear as well
19:29 obra chromatic: do you have commit bits?
19:29 Limbic_Region but if not - please add more tests
19:29 chromatic That's kind of a personal question.
19:29 obra :P
19:30 revdiablo Limbic_Region: yeah, probably be something good to test for sanity later
19:30 Limbic_Region grrrr - svk is back to blowing up again
19:30 Limbic_Region revdiablo - mind adding it for me?
19:30 revdiablo Limbic_Region: you mean committing, or actually writing the tests?
19:30 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 69.250.48.119 pasted "t/pugsbugs/parse_hash_ref.t" (34 lines, 859B) at http://sial.org/pbot/9996
19:31 Limbic_Region committing
19:31 Limbic_Region I already wrote the tests
19:31 revdiablo ok, no problem
19:31 Limbic_Region feel free to add the weird ref() results too if you want
19:31 Limbic_Region in fact, please do
19:31 Limbic_Region chromatic - I should have the revisions you asked for by tomorrow night - I am supposed to be taking a day off
19:31 Limbic_Region you can see how well that is working :-)
19:32 chromatic I'm taking tomorrow off too, so don't worry.
19:33 Limbic_Region chromatic - mind if I /msg you an idea for the aricle
19:34 chromatic Go ahead.
19:36 * obra hands chromatic commit bits
19:36 revdiablo Limbic_Region: I'm going to wrap each chunk in {} to avoid having to make new variables every time
19:37 Limbic_Region revdiablo - be my guest
19:43 revdiablo ok, the results are coming out different with %h3<h1> vs %h3<'h1'> -- are those supposed to be different?
19:44 Limbic_Region revdiablo - yes - <> is autoquoting
19:44 Limbic_Region {'h1'} = <h1> != <'h1'>
19:45 revdiablo oh, so %h3<'h1'> is %h3{"'h1'"}?
19:45 Limbic_Region I think so
19:45 * Limbic_Region is really really tired right now
19:45 chromatic Now where should I check in these modules?
19:46 Limbic_Region chromatic probably in ext/
19:46 revdiablo afaik, ext/ for modules that work
19:46 Limbic_Region see the other examples
19:47 chromatic Dunno if they ~work~ work.
19:47 obra the beauty of svn is that if they're not in the right place they can be moved with no penalty
19:48 chromatic True.
19:48 obra I think ext is the right place for now
19:49 obra And if not, I'm sure someone who knows better will fix it.
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19:52 chromatic Alright, there you are.
19:52 revdiablo Limbic_Region: ok, checked in
19:53 jabbot pugs - 2831 - checked in parse_hash_ref.t on behalf of
19:54 chromatic Hm, should I have checked in to SVN?  My # was 2885.
19:55 Limbic_Region chromatic - after "svn add <file>"
19:55 Limbic_Region "svk ci -m 'message'"
19:55 Limbic_Region at least that's all I do
19:55 sproingie hm, does {} no longer autoquote then?
19:55 chromatic I did svn commit.
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19:55 revdiablo chromatic: which repo did you commit to?
19:55 chromatic I don't think I have svk on ghostwheel.
19:55 chromatic Authentication realm: <http://svn.perl.org:80> perl.org
19:55 chromatic Password for 'chromatic':
19:55 Limbic_Region sproingie - correct
19:56 revdiablo I've been committing against http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs
19:56 sproingie Limbic_Region: bleh.  guess i'll be using <>
19:56 chromatic I'll wait for obra to panic then.
19:56 chromatic If he runs about, screams, and shouts, we'll figure something else out.
19:56 sproingie Limbic_Region: actually i've always liked javascript's way of doing it:  hash.key
19:57 obra Why am I supposed to panic?
19:57 chromatic It's funny.
19:57 chromatic I commited to the perl.org repository.  Is that groovy?
19:57 revdiablo sproingie: but in Perl, you can have a hash that also has methods on it :)
19:58 revdiablo or can you in Javascript too?
19:58 sproingie revdiablo: then the method should override it
19:58 obra oh. no. perl.org is a read-only mirror of the foundry mirror.
19:59 sproingie hashes have some builtin methods in javascript.  they can always have functions as members
19:59 obra though autrijus' svk is iirc set up to merge nicely.
19:59 chromatic It wasn't all that read-only when I tried.
19:59 chromatic Do I need to reparent my svn repository?
19:59 sproingie revdiablo: i suspect someone will come up with a behavior for perl6 hashes that makes them work the same way
19:59 sproingie a module or something
20:00 obra foundry is generally the canonical source for pugs development. it's automatically mirrored to svn.perl.org
20:00 chromatic Alright.  How do I retarget?
20:00 obra so if you'll be hacking on pugs, it's probably best to use the foundry repo.
20:00 revdiablo sproingie: well, larry said something in p6l about opaque objects allowing method access via hash subscripts, but that's sort of the opposite of what you are asking for :)
20:00 obra svk or svn?
20:00 chromatic svn
20:00 obra svn help switch
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20:08 chromatic Alright, now it's #2833.
20:09 Limbic_Region thanks revdiablo
20:11 chromatic Thanks, obra.
20:11 obra cool
20:11 obra Welcome to the insanity, chromatic.
20:11 Limbic_Region thanks chromatic for writing the module
20:11 chromatic Thanks, but I already knew insanity.
20:11 chromatic Multiple modules, actually.
20:11 revdiablo Limbic_Region: no problem.
20:12 revdiablo Limbic_Region: I wonder if accessing a shell would violate your work's policies?
20:12 Limbic_Region revdiablo - I can no longer ssh out
20:12 revdiablo Limbic_Region: aye, not even on a non-standard port?
20:12 Limbic_Region in fact - everything but HTTP has been locked down and that now has stricter use policies
20:13 revdiablo I used to ssh out on the https port :)
20:13 Limbic_Region it really is for the best
20:13 Limbic_Region revdiablo - everything http and https related needs to go through a proxy
20:13 obra Limbic_Region, where do yo uwork?
20:13 Limbic_Region obra - secret government agency
20:13 obra that was actually sort of what I figured
20:13 revdiablo Limbic_Region: ah, nice.
20:13 Limbic_Region revdiablo - which breaks any web site that doesn't use standard ports
20:13 obra "Virginia or Maryland?"
20:13 Limbic_Region Maryland
20:14 revdiablo Limbic_Region: that's about the only way they can really lock it down, though
20:14 Limbic_Region well - it isn't like I couldn't subvert it if I *really* wanted to
20:14 Limbic_Region but it would be pretty hard to plead ignorance
20:15 robkinyon any lamda'ers around?
20:15 * obra syncs svk to see if he can merge back chromatic's changes safely
20:16 clkao *yawn*
20:16 Limbic_Region rob - you don't use your typical alias on IRC?
20:16 Limbic_Region salutations btw
20:16 robkinyon dragonchild is 2 characters too long.
20:17 robkinyon i'm thinking of having my PM alias switched, anyways.
20:17 robkinyon on irc, it'd have to be drgnchld (or some such nonsense)
20:17 Limbic_Region following the IRC RFC - impressive
20:17 Limbic_Region not all networks follow the standard
20:17 Limbic_Region freenode for instance
20:17 Limbic_Region Limbic_Region works just fine here
20:17 robkinyon no - the first 3 servers refused to display the last 2 chars. :-/
20:18 revdiablo I don't think *any* networks follow the RFC to the letter
20:18 Limbic_Region Efnet is by the book I believe
20:18 Limbic_Region err WRT handle length
20:19 robkinyon i'm not an IRC-fanatic. i only use it for specific channels, like #apprentice back in my magic days and #perl6 now
20:19 * Limbic_Region has been using IRC for about a year now and it really has just been #perl #parrot and #perl6
20:19 Limbic_Region of course, I don't hang out in #parrot anymore
20:20 * revdiablo remembers Limbic_Region's first forays onto IRC
20:20 * robkinyon has no time for such frivolities as IRC
20:20 robkinyon at least, that's what my wife says
20:20 revdiablo she's right
20:20 revdiablo :)
20:20 * Limbic_Region hangs his head in shame
20:20 robkinyon i seriously just need a lamda'er for like 2 minutes to explain how to do this one fix
20:21 * Limbic_Region won't suggest #haskell
20:21 obra chromatic: test::builder is now merged back to the pugs repo as 2885
20:22 obra er
20:22 obra 2834
20:22 chromatic What was the conflict?
20:23 obra There were no conflicts. I just read the wrong line out of the svk output ;)
20:23 chromatic Hm, now we have doubles.
20:23 obra doubles?
20:23 chromatic I put mine in ext/Test/lib and you put yours in ext/Test/
20:24 obra oh. I actually just did an svk sm from the perl6 repo.
20:24 * obra didn't realize you did a double commit
20:24 chromatic Yeah, I relocated the repository.
20:24 chromatic Then I commited to the openfoundry one.
20:24 * obra misunderstood. sorry.
20:24 chromatic S'okay, it's partially my fault too.
20:25 obra not at all a big deal
20:25 chromatic Let's just edit history.
20:25 obra ok. so should the Test::Builder stuff live in the Test distribution or in its own distribution?
20:26 chromatic I have no particular preference.
20:26 * obra nods
20:26 chromatic When OO works enough for T::B to run, it might be nice to switch Test to use it as a backend.
20:26 obra are any of the test crew about?
20:26 * obra nods
20:27 obra I suspect that since they're not currently integrated a separate Test-Builder in ext/ makes the most sense
20:27 chromatic That's fine with me.
20:27 chromatic That means revert what I commited and move Test/Builder... to ext/Test-Builder/lib ?
20:28 obra I think so
20:28 chromatic Which of us should do it? Only one should...
20:28 obra yeah. it's your baby. if you're up for it, go for it
20:28 chromatic Doing it.
20:28 obra Cool
20:32 cdpruden has quit IRC ("Oops. This machine just fell asleep")
20:33 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("leafChat IRC client: http://www.leafdigital.com/Software/leafChat/")
20:34 jabbot pugs - 2832 - * some more formatting and fixes to hang
20:34 jabbot pugs - 2833 - Added Perl 6 port of Test::Builder.
20:34 jabbot pugs - 2834 -  r16123@hualien (orig r2885):  chromatic
20:34 jabbot pugs - 2835 - Moved Test::Builder to its own distribut
20:34 jabbot pugs - 2836 - * bless() takes an argument... I think
20:34 jabbot pugs - 2837 - * it's lib/Test/Builder.pm, not lib/Buil
20:38 shapr has joined #perl6
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20:53 jabbot pugs - 2838 - * adverbial block
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21:31 Shillo has joined #perl6
21:31 Shillo Hullo, folks!
21:32 shapr bok Shillo
21:33 Shillo Ej. :)
21:33 Juerd stevan: pong
21:33 shapr Juerd: Hey, I quoted you in my blog. Dunno if you'll agree with what I said but I still quoted you.
21:35 Shillo Chasing modules from: src/Main.hs
21:36 Shillo Could not find module `Text.PGE':
21:36 Shillo ^^^ Is this a known problem?
21:36 * Shillo just tried to build the latest checkout.
21:36 lightstep is it a clean build?
21:36 Juerd shapr: URL?
21:36 stevan Juerd: ping
21:37 Shillo lightstep: Yeah
21:37 Shillo lightstep: Well, I did make clean and retried when it failed the first time.
21:37 lightstep then try rm -
21:37 Juerd stevan: poing
21:37 stevan Juerd: I had a p6l question, you being the resident expert I wanted to ask before taking to the list
21:37 stevan but you werent around, so I sent it to the list :)
21:38 lightstep that is, try deleting src and re-updating
21:38 Shillo ghc-pkg: cannot find package plugins <-- this is the first complaint I get, from perl Makefile.PL
21:38 Juerd stevan: The list has much more expertise than I do.
21:38 Shillo But it doesn't seem to be an error
21:38 stevan Juerd: but I was hoping you might be more immediate :)
21:38 Shillo Hmm, don't think it's corrupted src, it's more likely I'm missing something.
21:39 lightstep o
21:39 lightstep i'll try
21:39 shapr Juerd: http://www.scannedinavian.com/2005-05-03.html
21:39 * Shillo tries re-checkout, though...
21:40 Juerd shapr: Oh, that. That appeared in a Google Alerts message days ago :)
21:41 Shillo Uh... what was the URL for the svn archive?
21:41 shapr Hm, hadn't thought of using Google Alerts for that purpose. Interesting.
21:42 lightstep Shillo, i seem to have the same problem
21:42 Shillo lightstep: Now you tell me. :p
21:42 Shillo :)
21:43 lightstep well, the reason is obvious: somebody cleared src/Text/
21:46 Shillo Heh. :)
21:46 shapr has left "focus!"
21:51 Shillo lightstep: You checked 'em back?
21:52 Shillo I saw the file on my re-checkout.
21:52 lightstep me? no, probably the offender did it herself
21:52 lightstep i'm too slow tonight
21:53 Shillo Oh.
21:53 lightstep i was gonna fix it in 5~10 minutes, though
21:53 * Shillo will svn history once it's done compiling.
21:53 Shillo Pugs.AST takes forever.
21:53 lightstep longer than Pugs.Parser ?
21:54 Shillo Yes.
21:54 Shillo Well, I didn't benchmark, but it felt longer.
21:55 Shillo Built, this time.
21:55 lightstep it does feel longer, but i never know if it's just psychological (on optimized build, though, AST definitely is much longer)
21:58 Shillo The rev number increased from 2838 to 2885, though.
21:59 Shillo I think it was just a big changeset landing and breaking stuff.
22:00 * Shillo pictures LAND *CRRRUUUNCH* *CRASH* sounds...
22:01 lightstep i see 2839 here
22:01 lightstep which didn't fix src/Text/
22:02 Shillo Hmm, did you use the mirror?
22:02 lightstep don't think so. how do i check?
22:02 Shillo Uh.
22:02 lightstep i think i use the main repo
22:03 lightstep also rt.openfoundry.org (the web ui) only sees 2839
22:03 jabbot pugs - 2839 - more detailed tests for t/builtins/array
22:03 Shillo grep url .svn/entries
22:04 lightstep   url="http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs"
22:04 Shillo http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk <-- I switched to this one
22:04 Shillo Oh, duh. I'm on the older version, then.
22:05 * Shillo switches back...
22:27 lightstep has quit IRC ("good night")
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22:53 jabbot pugs - 2840 - adding tests, documentation and a Change
22:55 PerlJam has joined #perl6
22:55 integral should builds be failing with Text.PGE being not found?
22:56 PerlJam What's Text.PGE and who's looking for it?
22:56 integral it was the interface to the C PGE afaik,  and that's been removed.   It's used in Pugs.Internals
22:57 * integral tries just removing it from Internals.hs
23:05 integral hmm, well pugs now builds when I remove it from Pugs.Internals and one use of parseRule from Pugs.Eval.
23:07 * integral wonders whether to commit
23:08 PerlJam integral: if you're wondering then you should do it.
23:08 integral *nod* it's just weird everything was so broken
23:12 justatheory has quit IRC ()
23:15 revdiablo fix the build? nah, don't commit that. :)
23:15 * integral pokes jabbot
23:16 revdiablo he only polls every 10 minutes, I think
23:17 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
23:17 integral hmm, do we have shaped arrays?
23:18 osfameron has quit IRC ("Leaving")
23:23 jabbot pugs - 2841 - Removing the last few traces of Text.PGE
23:50 Corion has joined #perl6
23:52 Corion r2841 - golf.t is broken, or rather the subprograms are - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
23:53 Corion Hmm - actually, it's no more broken than ever, but it outputs more stuff to stderr at the moment. Oh well :)
23:53 Corion Good night ! ;)
23:53 Corion has quit IRC (Client Quit)

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