Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-05-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 justatheory has joined #perl6
00:46 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
00:57 robkinyon any lamda'ers around?
00:59 Juerd I'd pretend to be one, but I think you'd notice the difference very quickly.
00:59 * robkinyon is dragonchild, fyi
00:59 robkinyon i am trying to fix a cygwin bug
00:59 Juerd How about epsilon?
00:59 robkinyon i think i know how to do the haskell changes, but i'm leery
01:00 Juerd Heh - I hadn't noticed before that kinyon == dragonchild.
01:00 Juerd Funny. :)
01:00 * robkinyon arghs
01:00 robkinyon be back soon (wife called)
01:00 Juerd Why not just change and commit, by the way?
01:00 Juerd If it's wrong, it can be reverted.
01:01 Juerd That's the most important of version control wonders :)
01:01 Juerd 3am here
01:01 Juerd Time to get some sleep
01:01 Juerd Good localtime!
01:01 Juerd afk
01:02 stevan robkinyon: how big is the change?
01:11 meppl gute nacht
01:15 castaway_ has joined #perl6
01:21 justatheory has quit IRC ()
01:27 castaway has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:45 cdpruden has joined #perl6
01:46 arcady has quit IRC ("Leaving")
02:02 hlen_ has joined #perl6
02:10 hlen has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:19 cjn has joined #perl6
02:35 meppl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
03:12 Shachaf has joined #perl6
03:12 Shachaf has left "Leaving"
03:17 stevan I hate it when I do something cool, and no one is awake to share it with
03:17 stevan for anyone who is awake,... I just got inside out objects to work :)
03:17 stevan horray for OO without OO :)
03:17 stevan see ext/Tree-Simple
03:19 stevan although since I cannot bless anything, it kind of fragile
03:19 stevan (my "opaque" object is an Int)
03:21 robkinyon what did you do?
03:21 stevan LOL
03:21 stevan hey Rob
03:21 robkinyon heyla
03:21 stevan inside out object :)
03:21 robkinyon still haven't fixed my doesFileExist to work with cygpath yet
03:21 robkinyon the change will be like 4 lines
03:21 robkinyon to Prim.hs
03:21 stevan line number?
03:22 robkinyon lemme make sure my copy is latest
03:22 stevan ok
03:22 robkinyon just search for doesFileExist
03:22 robkinyon there's three instances
03:22 robkinyon look for the one in the op for require
03:23 robkinyon line 204
03:23 stevan ok
03:23 robkinyon I think I can add a line before it that looks something like:
03:23 jabbot pugs - 2842 - adding Tree::Simple inside-out object; H
03:24 robkinyon if ( $OS eq 'cygwin' ) then pathanem <- cygpath pathname
03:24 robkinyon where cygpath is some function that calls out to the cygpath program
03:24 robkinyon s/pathanem/pathname/
03:25 robkinyon but, i have no idea how to make that work.
03:25 robkinyon and, since this bug is preventing the test suite from running, i can't verify my change
03:26 stevan well line 309 ( the system() built in ) should give you the code to call out
03:26 stevan boolIO system "cygpath"
03:26 stevan maybe?
03:26 stevan (BTW - I am totally cargo culting here)
03:26 robkinyon basically, i need to convert the following to haskell:
03:27 robkinyon chomp( $pathname = `cygpath $pathname` ) if $^O eq 'cygwin';
03:27 robkinyon everywhere in src/* that doesFileExist is used.
03:28 robkinyon (I'm pretty sure other functions beside doesFileExist will need that treatment, but that's as far as I've gotten.)
03:28 stevan Pugs/Compat.hs is I think where stuff like that goes
03:29 robkinyon ok.
03:30 * robkinyon reads Compat.hs
03:30 stevan getConfig "osname"
03:30 stevan that seems to get the value put into $?OS
03:31 stevan line 206 of Eval.hs
03:31 robkinyon Ok ... I should be able to do something like os <- fromVal =<< readvar "$?OS" ... right?
03:31 stevan uhm
03:31 stevan sure
03:32 stevan only one way to find out :)
03:32 robkinyon that how incs is done on line 196 of Prim.hs
03:32 robkinyon stevan - I. Don't. Have. A. Test. Suite.
03:32 stevan robkinyon: if it compiles, then you know you are closer then nothing :)
03:32 robkinyon *laughs*
03:33 stevan if you really want, you can nopaste and I can try
03:33 stevan but it wont tell you if cygwin worked :)
03:33 robkinyon i'll try it
03:33 robkinyon TIAS and all that
03:38 robkinyon here goes nuthin
03:38 * robkinyon sets the elevator music timer for 20 min.
03:39 stevan :)
03:45 sisterbliss has joined #perl6
03:46 sisterbliss has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
03:52 stevan good luck robkinyon, time for me to go to sleep  
03:52 stevan adios &
03:53 jabbot pugs - 2843 - improved the inside out instance; it now
03:54 gaal good morning.
03:55 robkinyon gargh
03:56 gaal hi, rob. i encountered the weirdest of bugs the other day.
03:57 robkinyon what's up, gaal?
03:57 gaal a little out of things recently :/
03:58 gaal do you happen to have more than one cpu on your box?
03:59 vitaminmoo has joined #perl6
03:59 robkinyon nope.
03:59 robkinyon i barely have a complete hamster inside the thing
03:59 * robkinyon is giving up
04:00 gaal oh, you've been doing cygpat in haskell? i can imagine that's tiring :/ what have you tried?
04:00 gaal btw you might make use of Pugs::Internals::runCommand which is in Prim.
04:01 robkinyon how I do convert the following Perl?!?
04:01 robkinyon if ( $^O eq 'cygwin' ) { $pathName = `cygpath $pathName` }
04:01 robkinyon that's literally the whole change on line 206 of Prim.hs
04:03 jabbot pugs - 2844 - changing $instance to $self because its
04:04 gaal first separate it to newpath =  $*OS ~~ 'cygwin' ?? "moose" :: oldpath
04:04 gaal so you know you got the basic if syntax right
04:05 gaal do you know trace? took me a while before i heard about it?
04:05 robkinyon nono - not in P6
04:05 gaal yes i understand
04:05 robkinyon I'm fixing a bug within Pugs
04:05 * robkinyon is confused
04:05 gaal trace in haskell is for debug printing. helps some. :)
04:05 gaal look for example usage in Eval.hs
04:06 robkinyon ok ...
04:07 robkinyon i think i'll come back to it tomorrow
04:07 robkinyon thanks for the tip
04:07 gaal can you nopaste what you do have? i'll see if i can get it in.
04:08 gaal perlbot nopaste
04:08 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
04:08 robkinyon what i have doesn't compile
04:08 gaal that's okay
04:08 robkinyon no - i've spent an hour trying to get that P5 snippet I showed you to compile in Haskell
04:08 robkinyon I haven't gotten past "if then x = y"
04:09 gaal welcome to the club :)
04:09 stevan isnt haskell fun :)
04:09 gaal you don't have x = y in haskell. variables are immutable.
04:09 robkinyon immutable
04:10 gaal yeah, which makes the name variables, uh, interesting!
04:10 robkinyon i can't just replace the value stored in the variable?
04:10 gaal not with usual vars, no
04:10 robkinyon gaah!
04:11 robkinyon i really need to just go to sleep now, before I do something to the stupid Prim.hs i'll regret.
04:11 gaal "that does put a damper on our relationship", as another Rob would put it.
04:12 robkinyon oh, well.
04:12 robkinyon there's always tomorrow
04:12 gaal sec, before you leave
04:12 gaal you wanted to cygpathify "pathName", right?
04:13 robkinyon yah?
04:13 robkinyon yes
04:13 gaal right after the let? or only if ok is false?
04:13 robkinyon actually, i need to cygpathify anything that gets send to doesFileExist
04:13 robkinyon i don't care when it happens
04:13 gaal okay.
04:14 gaal (we should probably assimmilate cypath into pugs, really.)
04:14 gaal (but that's step #3)
04:14 robkinyon i have pugscc "working"
04:14 gaal cool!
04:14 robkinyon (insofar as pugscc actually calls the right stuff)
04:14 robkinyon it still crashes, but I think that's cause of other cygwin issues
04:14 robkinyon i just want to get "use Test;" to work before going anywhere else
04:15 gaal sounds like a good idea :)
04:15 robkinyon does this mean you'll patch doesFileExist?
04:15 gaal i thinki i'll change
04:16 gaal let pathName =
04:16 gaal to pathName <- cypath $ ....
04:16 gaal where cypath is a noop on non-cywin platforms.
04:16 robkinyon could you change doesFileExist instead?
04:16 robkinyon or, rather, wrap it?
04:16 robkinyon and have something in Compat.hs to DWIM
04:17 robkinyon actually, ALL the filetest actions need to be wrapped in Compat.hs
04:17 robkinyon for example, "-e /tmp/foo" will fail unless cygpath-ified
04:17 gaal shelling out to cygpath all the time is insane though :(
04:17 robkinyon and it's the only solution GHC provides
04:17 gaal but as i said, step #3.
04:18 robkinyon cygwin users expect a 20-50% slowdown in everything they do, anyways
04:18 robkinyon apache, mysql, perl ... it's all slower on cygwin
04:18 robkinyon if pugs were different, you'd be giving people conniption fits! :-)
04:19 gaal :)
04:19 robkinyon cool - thanks gaal
04:19 robkinyon i appreciate it
04:20 gaal sure thang. i'm a novice haskeller though - i only think i know what i'm doing :)
04:20 robkinyon heh
04:21 robkinyon g'nite
04:21 * robkinyon waves
04:21 gaal bye.
04:33 cdpruden has quit IRC ("sleepy time")
05:02 saorge_ is now known as saorge
05:09 gaal i just realized this cygwin compat thing can't happen at compile time :( this is not good - it means a runtime hit on all platforms, or at least we can limit it to all windows platforms, with some ugliness.
05:11 gaal also, the current $*OS is wrong.
05:11 gaal it is what should be in $?OS.
05:12 gaal and now i have to go to $work :/
05:25 xinming has joined #perl6
05:27 xinming anyone here can tell me where to get online doc for perl6 please?
05:28 revdiablo http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/Perl6-Bible-0.16/
05:32 xinming revdiablo: thanks
05:41 xinming I've download the archive. could you please tell me how to use it? :-S I extracted it, But seems nothing useful. :-S
05:41 xinming ./updater doesn't work
05:45 Khisanth probably install it and then use perldoc
05:57 bsb Hi, can anyone tell me if the "-- #include <sys/types.h>" in src/RRegex/PCRE.hs is a pragma or just a comment?
06:00 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
06:00 rob__ has joined #perl6
06:07 simcop2387 has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
06:09 rob_ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:13 xinming has quit IRC (Client Quit)
06:22 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
06:23 gaal|work has joined #perl6
06:41 sproingie has quit IRC ("Konversation terminated!")
06:49 Skywind has joined #perl6
07:24 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
07:31 integral bsb: I'm pretty sure that's a comment
07:34 chady has joined #perl6
07:35 vitaminmoo has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
07:36 bsb Thanks integral, haddock thinks it's a directive
07:38 chady has quit IRC (Client Quit)
07:44 jabbot pugs - 2845 - haddock compatibility tweaks
07:44 jabbot pugs - 2846 - change cut-n-pasted test comment
07:44 domm has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
07:44 domm has joined #perl6
07:49 scook0 has joined #perl6
07:51 iblechbot has joined #perl6
07:56 nothingmuch i love good uptime
07:56 nothingmuch unminimizing windows you opened a week ago is a nice way to continue where you left off
08:10 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
08:10 ingy hola
08:16 Corion has joined #perl6
08:18 jiing has quit IRC ("Lost terminal")
08:36 Corion Hmmm. I don't understand the backlog about cygpath. From how I understand cygwin/cygpath, any (cygwin-)native application can use /tmp and /etc and /whatever directly, and the cygwin1.dll translates. If Pugs is compiled under cygwin, there should be no need to munge any paths further, unless the cygwin setup is wrong.
08:40 gaal|work Corion, a cygwin pugs doesn't depend on cgdwin.dll
08:41 gaal|work it uses the msys ghc and all
08:41 gaal|work just before work today i realized we got $*OS all wrong for cygwin.
08:42 gaal|work the main advantage of building with cygwin and not msys is that you have a reasonble perl(5) around.
08:42 Corion gaal|work: Still, the path things should Just work
08:42 Corion What's the matter with $*OS on cygwin?
08:42 gaal|work but you get the same pugs you'd get building under msys.
08:43 gaal|work $*OS should be the one you're running on, not the one you built on.
08:43 Corion gaal|work:Oh. Yes.
08:43 gaal|work actually $*OS is wrong everywhere.
08:43 Corion Well, partly. If you're built for cygwin, you'll always be cygwin, even if you run on Win32
08:44 gaal|work it just happens to be accidentally right alsmot everywhere too.
08:44 Corion (because on Win32, /tmp has no meaning, while on cygwin, it has)
08:44 gaal|work Corion, no: a cygwin pugs is not really a cygwin pugs.
08:45 gaal|work it's the same as an msys pugs.
08:45 Corion gaal|work: Ah, it was merely built on cygwin, but is "native", as ghc outputs non-cygwin code?
08:45 gaal|work yes.
08:45 Corion Ugh.
08:45 Corion So we should ditch cygwin. I don't want to deal with the cygprefix stuff.
08:46 gaal|work see http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/5.04/html/building/winbuild.html and http://www.reed.edu/~carlislp/ghc6-doc/users_guide/x11221.html
08:46 Corion (what good is building on cygwin, if you don't get a cygwin executable?)
08:46 gaal|work its significantly less sucky perl5.
08:46 gaal|work ("less sucky" than msys')
08:46 Corion Hmmm. ActiveState has a good enough Perl for building Pugs :)
08:47 Corion If you're end up with a native Win32 executable anyway, why not go all-native?
08:47 gaal|work i don't know that they do, Corion. Does the smoke toolchain have no XS dependencies at all?
08:48 Corion Not that I know of. But then, these are all transparent to me, as I have a working C compiler setup here... But thinking about it, the fanciest thing the build uses is Module::Install, which isn't XS
08:49 gaal|work petal requires mkdoc::xml or something like that
08:49 gaal|work i don't remember if it's xs.
08:49 gaal|work htmlmatrix wants petal
08:49 gaal|work make smoke wants htmlmatrix.
08:49 Corion Hmm, that's true - Petal also is fancy
08:49 gaal|work if someone ports petal to p6, great.
08:49 Corion ... and mkdoc might be ugly. It's been a long time since I installed it ;)
08:50 gaal|work but that isn't easy.
08:50 Corion True, we should get a templating system ported ;)
08:50 Corion Well, it would be easier if we had rules (as Petal needs a compiler anyway :) )
08:50 gaal|work don't we almost have them already?
08:51 gaal|work i've been out of things lately.
08:51 Corion I don't know, I've been out of things as well (or rather, into different things)
08:53 gaal|work the latest mention is http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal/24571 (6 May)
08:53 gaal|work looks like the ball is in pm's hands
08:54 gaal|work but it's not like i'm running off to port petal myself right when that's done.
08:54 gaal|work so: you're right, cygwin isn't really a target platform at all. it is, however, useful to be able to build pugs on.
08:55 Corion True... But I want the path munging in one central place, and I'm not even sure it should happen in Haskell... Fudging @*INC at BEGIN time (or Just before it) should be enough ...
08:56 gaal|work well, dragonchild was missing -e </tmp/x>; and the pugscc script is broken..
08:56 gaal|work anyway, i'm off to lunch.
08:57 gaal|work see you later :)          &
09:04 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
09:21 pupilzeng has joined #perl6
09:21 Corion has quit IRC (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
09:44 jabbot pugs - 2847 - * EOLs at EOFs in ext/.
10:06 estel has joined #perl6
10:10 puetzk has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
10:16 * nothingmuch has a vegetable overdose
10:16 elmex has joined #perl6
10:17 puetzk has joined #perl6
10:24 jabbot pugs - 2848 - mklivecd.pl now copies our Perl 6 module
10:29 estel has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
10:34 jabbot pugs - 2849 - Changed LWP::Simple to use HTTP/1.0 inst
10:35 larsen has joined #perl6
11:19 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:20 Odin- has joined #perl6
11:24 lightstep has joined #perl6
11:24 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (No route to host)
11:44 jabbot pugs - 2850 - * Added svnbot.p6, a bot which informs #
11:44 iblech has joined #perl6
11:45 svnbot6 has joined #perl6
11:47 iblech ?uptime
11:49 iblech :)
11:51 * scw pulling 504 revisions
11:53 gugod heh
11:54 jabbot pugs - 2851 - This is a dummy commit to test if svnbot
11:58 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
12:00 lightstep is svnbot really fast?
12:03 iblech it checks for new revisions every 240s (but you can change it using @*ARGS). *But*: Because readline() is blocking, svnbot6 has to wait for server input before it can check for new revisions
12:04 lightstep so why not immediately? that's cause it to block until there's a new revision
12:04 iblech Therefore, I sent it to #enrc.wikipedia, too, as that's a channel with high traffic
12:05 iblech It has to control two things -- the IRC socket and svn. In the IRC handling code of Net::IRC there's a readline(), which'll block until the server says something. svn_check() is called after each readline()
12:05 iblech In Perl 5, I'd solve this problem by either using POE or by using %*SIG<ALARM> (but %*SIG doesn't work yet in Pugs)
12:07 lightstep stm can be used to solve this. but i don't know is autrijus exposed the stm primitives to pugs
12:08 iblech he did not yet, IIRC
12:09 lightstep sequence . repeat $ readIRC >>= handleCommand `orElse` waitForSvn >>= showRev
12:27 meppl has joined #perl6
12:28 meppl guten morgen
12:36 vitaminmoo has joined #perl6
12:49 Juerd moin
12:49 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
12:51 chady has joined #perl6
12:53 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
12:59 revdiablo has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:00 revdiablo has joined #perl6
13:01 hawkaloogie has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:02 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
13:11 chady has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
13:13 iblech ?uptime
13:14 jabbot pugs - 2852 - More Haddocks for Bind
13:17 scook0 svnbot6++ :)
13:34 b00t has joined #perl6
13:39 scook0 has quit IRC ("Time for sleep...")
13:49 chady__ has joined #perl6
13:52 chady__ is now known as chady
14:06 madhause has joined #perl6
14:07 luca32 has joined #perl6
14:07 luca32 hi everyone there!
14:08 luca32 how long it will take to perl6?
14:08 sorje 20 minutes ;-)
14:08 luca32 come on!
14:08 luca32 really
14:08 luca32 what's the status of parrot
14:08 chady has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
14:08 luca32 and of pugs?
14:09 madhause has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:09 misc_ pugs works
14:09 luca32 is it complete?
14:09 misc_ luca32: see svnbot6 , a perl6 irc bot
14:09 luca32 cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:09 madhause has joined #perl6
14:10 sorje have a look at http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/examples/
14:10 luca32 how many people will join tha austrian acaton
14:10 clkao has quit IRC ("Lost terminal")
14:11 luca32 and parrot??
14:11 luca32 i guess perl6 is becoming the best language
14:11 luca32 it will superceed c#
14:11 luca32 and java
14:12 luca32 autrijus is he online now?
14:12 luca32 how can i contribute?
14:12 luca32 i have very strong skills in c,c++
14:13 madhouse has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
14:13 luca32 plus some skill in perl5
14:13 misc_ luca32: you need some skill in haskell
14:13 luca32 and strong skills in .net and c#
14:13 misc_ luca32: or write doc, and test
14:13 luca32 well
14:13 luca32 actually i don't have time to learn haskell
14:13 Qiang has joined #perl6
14:13 luca32 everyone here knows haskell
14:13 luca32 ?
14:13 gaal|work misc_, hi, sorry about the disappearing act from yesterday. did you manage to get the smoke running?
14:14 misc_ gaal|work: no
14:14 misc_ gaal|work: but it hink the problem comes from my side
14:14 gaal|work got tuits to try now?
14:14 gaal|work luca32: not everybody knows haskell
14:14 misc_ ok
14:14 misc_ luca32: but you can write doc and test
14:15 sorje has left
14:15 pjcj or hack on parrot
14:15 skew luca32: with embed_haskell you'll have to learn it eventually if you want to know all of perl6 :)
14:18 luca32 what's the state of parrot
14:18 luca32 whish it was 2003
14:19 luca32 i believe parrot is a too mature project right now
14:19 luca32 it would be interesting to start instead a parrot.NET
14:19 luca32 port
14:19 gaal|work misc_, the problem still happens for me on my (SMP) work machine, but i'd be glad if you could confirm this.
14:19 cognominal_ has joined #perl6
14:20 skew I'm not sure if that's really in the standard, though Larry Wall promised inline Haskell while Perl 5 was being developed: http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~partain/haskerl/wall-1.html
14:21 gaal|work look at the date :)
14:23 misc_ gaal|work: i still have problem with cpan install Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix, even if i managed to make it work as simple user
14:23 misc_ no, maybe i didn't managed to use it as simple user :/
14:23 gaal|work i wonder if that might be a bug in Module::Build :)
14:24 luca32 has quit IRC ()
14:24 Qiang_ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:25 misc_ i am starting from scratch on a nother server
14:27 gaal|work oh, crap - now it happens even w/o the UPLOAD command thing.
14:29 misc_ gaal|work: still doesn't work, give the same type of error :
14:29 misc_ t/comprehensive....Operation `eq': no method found,
14:35 gaal|work did installing the Model module work?
14:35 misc_ Test::Model ?
14:35 gaal|work test tap model
14:36 clkao has joined #perl6
14:36 misc_ Test::TAP::Model doesn't install on the two server i tested
14:36 gaal|work oh, in that case the htmlmatrix for sure won't work.
14:36 gaal|work why doesn't it install thoguh?
14:38 misc_ gaal|work: http://pastebin.com/281282
14:40 gaal|work misc_, just so i'm sure we're on the same subtest here, could you please run from the command line:
14:40 gaal|work prove -vl t/comprehensive.t
14:41 gaal|work you have to be at the base dir of Test::TAP::Model for this.
14:41 misc_ test 22 fails
14:42 misc_ http://pastebin.com/281284
14:42 misc_ gaal|work: it is a amd64 server without smp this time, but i doubt it change something
14:42 gaal|work no, this bit i don't think has anything to wiht smp.
14:43 gaal|work (btw, 22 is passing; 23 is dying.)
14:43 b00t has quit IRC ("离开")
14:44 gaal|work oh
14:44 gaal|work weird
14:44 gaal|work i'm getting it too now
14:44 gaal|work hmm
14:44 gaal|work well, that makes it easier to debug at least :)
14:50 hcchien seen autrijus
14:50 jabbot hcchien: autrijus was seen 1 days 12 minutes 21 seconds ago
14:54 jiing__ has joined #perl6
15:05 Huskie has joined #perl6
15:10 Huskie has quit IRC ()
15:10 rafl has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
15:12 G2 has joined #perl6
15:21 Juerd Let's put sigils at the *end*!
15:22 Juerd It solves all the sigil-part-of-the-name problems, and it's retro-ish (think BASIC)
15:22 Juerd :P
15:23 lightstep some scheme systems have those
15:34 jabbot pugs - 2853 - * Added more documentation to Net::IRC.
15:42 pupilzeng has quit IRC ("Bye")
15:42 Juerd I'm seeing double
15:42 Juerd I like svnbot's mentioning of the username
15:42 Juerd I like jabbot's using a normal privmsg
15:42 Juerd Can that be combined into one bot?
15:43 Juerd (And reduce waste of screen estate, s/ --//)
15:43 iblech Juerd: Bots should always use NOTICE, not PRIVMSG, according to RFC 1459 (the IRC RFC)
15:44 jabbot pugs - 2854 - Added more comments to svnbot.p6.
15:44 iblech (But if we want to change, it's a matter of changing one "notice" to "privmsg".)
15:45 lightstep http://haskell.org/hawiki/LambdaBot_2fNotices
15:45 Juerd I know the RFC
15:45 lightstep this page contains solutions
15:45 Juerd And prefer in this case to radically ignore it.
15:45 Juerd Oh, and I like that svnbot.p6 is more realtimeish
15:46 Juerd iblech: I think it's wise to follow the de facto standard rather than the 12 year old official one
15:46 Juerd iblech: Note too that bots have become more user-ish over time
15:47 Juerd iblech: While at the time rfc1459 was written, bots were for channel management only, not for providing information
15:48 iblech Juerd: FWIW, RFC 2812 ("Internet Relay Chat: Client Protocol") was released April 2000, and says the same.
15:49 iblech Juerd: But I don't have a very strong opinion on this.
15:49 Juerd Also, it is said to be like this to avoid infinite loops
15:50 Juerd Which is a problem only if the automated message was in reply to an IRC event
15:50 iblech True.
15:51 lightstep there could be a cycle (perhaps svn listening to irc?)
15:52 Juerd lightstep: I think we have to rule out that possibility for sanity's sake.
15:52 hawkaloogie has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
15:52 iblech Or a bot which commits something when it sees certain svn events.
15:52 iblech But as you say, Juerd, sanity :)
15:53 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
16:01 iblech ?quit Moving svnbot6 to a 24/7-online machine
16:01 svnbot6 has quit IRC ("Moving svnbot6 to a 24/7-online machine")
16:02 Juerd autrijus: You asked for registration of my slides or talk
16:03 Juerd autrijus: I'm afraid the only thing available is a photograph: http://amsterdam.pm.org/meetings/reports/20050503/.f00951f1a955.html
16:03 Juerd :)
16:03 Juerd I believe that the page shown was the fifth
16:05 svnbot6 has joined #perl6
16:08 gaal|work a bot that commits a fix every time someone reports a bug?
16:09 Juerd Now that would come in handy.
16:09 Juerd You write it
16:10 svnbot6 has quit IRC (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
16:10 gaal|work easy. someone just spec 'use DWIM' first.
16:11 Juerd It's going to be a builtin, not a module
16:11 svnbot6 has joined #perl6
16:11 Juerd dwim();
16:12 cookys has joined #perl6
16:14 jabbot pugs - 2855 - Oops! Because of a too early return(), $
16:14 Juerd Yay for parrot 0.2.0
16:15 lightstep has quit IRC ("voting for the party")
16:35 hawkaloogie has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:36 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
16:47 cognominal_ has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]")
16:50 madhause has quit IRC ()
17:01 robkinyon hey gaal - did you make that fix for cygwin we talked about?
17:13 ingy hola
17:15 ingy gaal|work: I got your email. Adding your test to the suite which I am currently refactoring.
17:19 zuulvin_ has joined #perl6
17:22 broquaint has joined #perl6
17:46 Corion has joined #perl6
17:54 hawkaloogie has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:55 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
17:57 justatheory has joined #perl6
18:13 chady has joined #perl6
18:13 justatheory has quit IRC ()
18:20 chady has quit IRC ("leaving")
18:24 jabbot pugs - 2856 - Net::IRC will now discover the bot's use
18:32 iblech BTW, lambdafolks, it'd be cool to be able to connect() to IPv6-hosts, too
18:34 iblech FYI, if svnbot6 goes crazy, please stop it by MSGing "?quit"
18:34 iblech has quit IRC ("off, school tomorrow")
18:43 revdiablo has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
18:44 jabbot pugs - 2857 - * compile sub calls with no arguments to
18:47 theorbtw1 has joined #perl6
18:48 didie_p6 has joined #perl6
18:48 didie_p6 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
18:48 theorbtwo has joined #perl6
18:52 theorbtwo Allo, all!
18:53 Juerd Hi
19:00 theorbtw1 has quit IRC ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
19:01 theorbtwo has quit IRC ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
19:01 theorbtwo has joined #perl6
19:11 Snip` has joined #perl6
19:12 wilx has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
19:13 revdiablo has joined #perl6
19:15 justatheory has joined #perl6
19:25 wilx has joined #perl6
19:31 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
19:50 wilx has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
19:52 saorge has quit IRC ("Leaving")
19:55 jiing__ has quit IRC ("Computer goes to sleep!")
19:58 justatheory has quit IRC ()
20:02 mj41 has joined #perl6
20:02 Odin- has quit IRC (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:02 b6s has quit IRC (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:02 Southen[a] has quit IRC (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:02 Odin- has joined #perl6
20:02 b6s has joined #perl6
20:02 Southen[a] has joined #perl6
20:03 Southen[a] has quit IRC (Client Quit)
20:04 b6s has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
20:04 b6s has joined #perl6
20:14 simcop2387 has joined #perl6
20:14 Southen has joined #perl6
20:16 luca32 has joined #perl6
20:16 luca32 autrijus is here?
20:16 luca32 are y here?
20:16 hawkaloogie has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:16 luca32 is there someone who has news about the parrot hack event in Vienna?
20:17 luca32 how many people have already booked?
20:17 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
20:18 pjcj I don't think it's generally open.  It seems to be sort of semi official at Leo's house.  But I might be completely wrong.
20:18 luca32 it's open
20:19 luca32 there is also a website about it
20:19 luca32 it's only necessary to subscribe
20:19 luca32 who's leo?
20:19 pjcj OK, then I am completely wrong.
20:19 pjcj Leo is the release manager for parrot.
20:19 luca32 i have not decided yet
20:19 luca32 so i would like to know if i am still in time
20:20 luca32 leo is austrian?
20:20 pjcj yes
20:20 pjcj where is the website?
20:20 luca32 i have to take a loojk at my gmail account
20:23 luca32 There will be a Parrot/PUGS Hack-a-thon at the Austrian Perl Workshop, which
20:23 luca32 > takes place on 9th and 10th June in Vienna, Austria.
20:24 luca32 http://conferences.yapceurope.org/apw2005
20:24 Qiang-zh has joined #perl6
20:24 G2 has quit IRC ("oops")
20:25 pjcj Ah yes.  In that case I refer the right honourable gentleman to my previous answer.
20:26 pjcj But maybe you should contact the conference organisers.
20:26 luca32 pjcj are u involved in parrot/pugs?
20:27 pjcj I mostly lurk on irc and mailing lists.
20:27 luca32 :P
20:27 luca32 k
20:27 luca32 are u austrian?
20:27 pjcj Wating for my supply of appropriately shaped tuits.
20:27 pjcj No, I'm English.
20:27 luca32 k
20:28 luca32 must code something
20:28 luca32 i am going
20:28 luca32 see ya
20:28 luca32 by the way
20:28 pjcj tchuss
20:28 luca32 i am a phd in computer science
20:28 luca32 right now i work for a multinational consulting firm
20:28 luca32 which business is MS oriented
20:28 pjcj I suggest looking into parrot.
20:28 luca32 but my roots are in unix systems
20:28 pjcj No need to be coy ;-)
20:29 luca32 during my spare time i enjoy doing some real engineering stuff
20:29 luca32 and not IT
20:29 luca32 :P
20:29 pjcj parrot 0.2.0 was just released today
20:29 pjcj electronic engineering?
20:29 luca32 now i am coding a plug in for lightwave that does mesh unfolding
20:29 pjcj or the real real stuff
20:29 luca32 hope to release soon it
20:30 luca32 after i finish this i would like to be involved in some other challenging project
20:30 luca32 i was thinking about a .net port of parrto
20:30 luca32 parrot
20:30 pjcj as in parrot running on .net or the other way around?
20:31 luca32 parrot running on .net
20:31 pjcj interesting - are you on the parrot mailing list?
20:31 luca32 maybe someone could be interested in stuff like this
20:31 luca32 yeah
20:31 luca32 but never posted
20:31 pjcj there were some people who were into .net, but I don't remember them posting recently
20:32 pjcj (or their names, I'm afraid)
20:33 pjcj actually, they were mono people, but it's all the same stuff, right?  ;-)
20:34 luca32 more or less
20:34 pjcj I'm currently chasing a bug in XS code, but I'm about to give it up for the night.
20:35 cognominal has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
20:35 luca32 k
20:35 pjcj good luck with parrot, if you decide to work on it
20:35 luca32 k
20:36 luca32 but i won't approach it before 1 and a half months
20:36 cognominal has joined #perl6
20:36 luca32 now i am begging to lurk
20:36 pjcj I'm sure it'll still be there ...
20:36 wilx has joined #perl6
20:37 luca32 sure
20:37 luca32 good night
20:37 pjcj night
20:37 luca32 has quit IRC ()
20:38 zuulvin_ has quit IRC ("Leaving")
20:40 broquaint has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]")
20:56 Sniper{PaLa} has joined #perl6
21:04 Snip` has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
21:07 * Corion reads the backlog and wonders ...
21:08 theorbtwo Allo, Corion.
21:08 Corion Hi theorbtwo ! Back from the UK already?
21:09 theorbtwo Yep.
21:09 theorbtwo Got in this morning.
21:09 theorbtwo Touchdown was around... 12:30, local.
21:10 theorbtwo We're sick, though.
21:10 Corion theorbtwo: Ah, so you've been back some time already.
21:10 Corion Ugh - why that? The british cuisine?
21:11 theorbtwo The London weather had more to do with it, I think, but some of that too.
21:12 crysflame what is "boiled frog treatment"?
21:12 Corion Oh - so you've brought a cold back ... I thought you had visited castaways sister? Or is she in London?
21:12 crysflame er, hello #perl6
21:12 theorbtwo Two of castaway's sisters live in greater london, but we didn't see either of them.
21:14 lightstep has joined #perl6
21:14 theorbtwo We went to a london.pm social, and met broquaint, and did a lot of walking about the city.
21:15 theorbtwo We almost stopped in at the work of one of her sisters, but callled and found out that she's at castaway's parents for the weekend.
21:16 cognominal has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
21:16 * clkao waves at theorbtwo
21:16 theorbtwo Allo, clkao.
21:18 clkao don't think we actually met in the social :P
21:19 Corion Ah - I didn't know she had two - I only knew of the one that recently married. But you met a lot of people, that's nice!
21:19 * Corion goes to bed now.
21:19 Corion Get well soon theorbtwo (and castaway too! )
21:19 Corion has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]")
21:20 cognominal has joined #perl6
21:21 justatheory has joined #perl6
21:21 theorbtwo Hmm, I don't remember...
21:21 theorbtwo There were a lot of people at the social, though, and I'm not very good at being social with large groups of strangers.
21:22 theorbtwo ...and it was very noisy; I had problems hearing.
21:22 theorbtwo But I had lots of fun anyway.
21:23 theorbtwo Oh, you aren't in AUTHORS.  What's your real name, clkao?
21:23 clkao i write svk
21:27 mugwump ah, is that the literal translation of "kao chialiang"?  :)
21:28 clkao umm :p
21:29 hawkaloogie has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:29 mugwump theorbtwo: just call the hotsprings operator on him; http://pugs.kwiki.org/?PugsOperators
21:29 hawkaloogie has joined #perl6
21:32 mugwump stevan: around?
21:39 autrijus How are you lambdacamels!
21:39 mugwump morning autrijus !  Up early/late?
21:39 autrijus early.
21:39 mugwump nice
21:39 autrijus I'm dayshifting to a sleep-at-8pm, wake-at-5pm cycle
21:39 autrijus er.
21:39 autrijus s/5pm/5am/
21:40 mugwump that must be close to sunrise
21:41 autrijus yup
21:41 gaal hey all
21:41 lightstep 9 hrs is lotsa fun
21:41 gaal ingy: thanks :)
21:41 gaal robkinyon: ping
21:43 clkao actually i'm in pugs AUTHORS.. i wonder why
21:47 Qiang-zh has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
21:54 elmex hmpf
21:57 theorbtwo has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:57 autrijus clkao: maybe because you reported three bugs, all of which resolved? :)
21:57 clkao oh did i
21:58 clkao i was only complaining
21:58 clkao :)
21:58 clkao howdy autrijus. is svk.elixus.org slow for you?
21:58 autrijus bearably so
21:58 autrijus i.e. I'm fine
21:58 clkao i found i was added at r32
21:59 Juerd autrijus: Seen the "slide"?
21:59 autrijus Juerd: no. url?
21:59 Juerd 18:06 < Juerd> autrijus: I'm afraid the only thing available is a photograph:
21:59 Juerd          http://amsterdam.pm.org/meetings/reports/20050503/.f00951f1a955.html
22:01 autrijus heh cool!
22:01 autrijus Juerd++
22:01 autrijus ok, so, release plan for 6.2.3.
22:01 autrijus I propose we wait until this Sunday, that is 6 days from now.
22:01 autrijus because I want to get rx// and object support in :)
22:02 autrijus and the tree had not been stabilised enough to make an easy snapshot release.
22:02 lightstep has quit IRC ("sleep")
22:02 * autrijus checks regressions
22:03 autrijus hm. my impression was wrong, we only have 6 or so regressions
22:03 mugwump object support!
22:04 autrijus let me take a look to see if I can fix them quickly
22:04 mugwump there is a plan for this?  I saw the closure state `hack'
22:05 autrijus mugwump: there's a plan for this, based on your Class.hs
22:05 iblechbot has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:06 autrijus but I want rx// support first (because it's easier) :)
22:06 mugwump via PGE?
22:06 autrijus aye
22:06 mugwump awesome
22:07 autrijus what's more, rx// support will be there even if you don't build against libparrot!
22:07 * autrijus cackles evilly
22:07 * autrijus hacks that in
22:07 mugwump pulling another IMC?
22:07 autrijus no, running external bin/parrot
22:07 autrijus ;)
22:08 mugwump oh, evil
22:15 TreyHarr1s has joined #perl6
22:17 jhorwitz has joined #perl6
22:18 TreyHarris has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:28 obra hello
22:41 justatheory has quit IRC ()
22:50 mj41 has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
22:58 orafu has joined #perl6
23:06 jhorwitz has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.1/20050223]")
23:08 hawkalooogie has joined #perl6
23:08 hawkaloogie has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:08 hawkalooogie is now known as hawkaloogie
23:09 bsb has left
23:23 justatheory has joined #perl6
23:24 jabbot pugs - 2858 - * New, improved, parrot-based PGE
23:27 stevan mugwump: pong
23:27 autrijus rx// support rsn.
23:28 stevan autrijus: hello :)
23:28 stevan rx// requires parrot though right?
23:28 obra hey autrijus
23:30 autrijus yo obra
23:30 autrijus stevan: an installed parrot, not libparrot
23:30 autrijus it will be faster (no system() overhead) if you link against libparrot.
23:31 stevan ok
23:31 * stevan goes to download/install parrot
23:31 mugwump hey stevan, I was just reading your message re: .isa on built-ins and thought that perhaps it would be a good idea to prototype the behaviour
23:32 stevan mugwump: what are you thinking? write some tests?
23:32 stevan or prototype it in perl5?
23:32 mugwump well, we've got 'objects' of sorts, implemented by closures in Pugs, right?
23:33 stevan mugwump: and I hacked some inside-out invocant based object stuff last night too
23:33 mugwump coo, is that in pugs?
23:33 stevan ext/Tree-Simple/
23:33 stevan since we dont have proper namespaces or bless, it is a little delicate
23:34 stevan basically new() returns a random string, which is the hash key to an %INSTANCES hash inside the package
23:35 stevan it does work though, and even for recursive data-types like Trees
23:38 mugwump is the trick used in http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/examples/cashiers.p6 not ok?
23:38 mugwump oh, it's using hash subscript rather than .
23:38 stevan autrijus: are there instructions for building libparrot?
23:39 stevan mugwump: either one is fine with me, I did the inside out object things as a proof of concept
23:40 mugwump sure.  I'd prefer an interface that doesn't require me to call 'methods' with <> though :)
23:40 stevan mugwump: yes it makes it more future-proof too
23:40 stevan although I didn't figure out inheritance with it yet
23:41 stevan it would have to be pretty manual
23:41 mugwump For these purposes it doesn't matter
23:42 stevan ok
23:42 elmex has quit IRC (")(")
23:42 autrijus stevan: set the PUGS_EMBED env to parrot
23:42 autrijus stevan: maybe write it up on Makefile.PL or README or somewhere
23:43 mugwump right, well what I'll start on is translating the Class.hs into Tree::Simple-style OO ... to at least have a prototype metamodel in Perl 6
23:43 stevan mugwump: I have not looked at Class.hs
23:44 * stevan goes to look right now
23:44 stevan autrijus: I will document my parrot experience somewhere
23:44 stevan probably README
23:44 stevan mugwump: src/Pugs/Class.hs?
23:45 * mugwump nods
23:47 Juerd autrijus: I had to "make clean" in order for the procedure to pick up that I wanted parrot embedded
23:47 autrijus Juerd: nod
23:48 autrijus mugwump: ooh! that will r0x0r
23:48 mugwump ok, how does ext/Perl/MetaClass.pm sound for a location?  :)
23:49 stevan mugwump: how about ext/Perl-MetaClass/lib/Perl/MetaClass.pm
23:49 stevan then we can add tests and such
23:49 stevan mugwump: Class.hs goes /way/ over my head
23:49 stevan but I will help out any way I can
23:50 stevan tests are what I am good at :)
23:50 stevan I can grok how to use things, and how they should be used, but the underlying theory is not my thing
23:51 mugwump this is basically the schema for those .meta objects mentioned in S12
23:53 stevan actually the further down i get, the more I understand :)
23:53 mugwump excellent!
23:55 mugwump how does the MMD know that the '$self' you return is a Tree::Simple object in Tree::Simple?
23:55 stevan it doesnt
23:55 stevan thats the fragile part
23:55 stevan we have no proper namespaces
23:55 mugwump right, so these methods are all clobbering each other for now
23:56 stevan potentially
23:57 mugwump ok, so what about possibilities with 'magic types' ...
23:57 * mugwump looks for MMD typing tests
23:57 stevan what do you mean 'magic types'?
23:57 stevan blessed ?
23:58 stevan mugwump: I think MMD would work in some cases
23:58 mugwump ie, returning some 'unusual' or non-sensical type that is used for MMD
23:58 mugwump (on the invocant)
23:58 stevan multi sub foo ($self: Int $id)
23:58 stevan multi sub foo ($self: Str $id)
23:59 stevan that should DWIM
23:59 mugwump sure, but sort of like:
23:59 mugwump multi sub foo ($self: Str $id where exists %INSTANCES<id>)
23:59 stevan mugwump: $self actually is the key into %INSTANCES

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo