Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-05-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:00 mugwump it's still early in Taiwan
00:00 putter ;)
00:00 putter time to read the traits paper...
00:01 putter has quit IRC ("'night all")
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01:14 _metaperl my perl mongers talk on hangman.p6 will commence in 46 minutes: http://www.metaperl.com/ta​lks/p6/hangman-elucidated/
01:22 mugwump nice looking talk, _metaperl
01:22 _metaperl mugwump, thanks
01:29 stevan _metaperl: I agree w/ mugwump
01:29 stevan :)
01:29 _metaperl :) great. glad to help out the p6 movement in my own way
01:31 revdiablo if anyone's interested, I made a greasemonkey script to re-sort the www.nntp.perl.org post listings
01:31 revdiablo makes it sort of threaded, at least easier to follow the threads than it was
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01:55 stevan horray,.. openfoundry is back
01:57 wilx ~_~
01:57 wilx I forgot to turn off my speakers befire I went to sleep and my mIRC beeps on notice.
01:57 wilx It woke me up :/
01:58 stevan sorry
01:58 wilx 0357
01:58 wilx Heh.
01:58 stevan shhhhh wilx is sleeping :)
01:58 wilx np
01:58 wilx My fault.
02:01 autrijus changes topic to: OpenFoundry back, commit at will | pugscode.org <Overview Journal Logs> | pugs.kwiki.org
02:02 autrijus hopefully stevan will still have enough sanity to update ChangeLog :)
02:03 stevan TEst::Builder now parses :)
02:03 stevan autrijus++ # cant stop him
02:03 autrijus that's not saying it works :)
02:03 stevan I know
02:03 stevan but its closer then it was before
02:04 stevan :)
02:04 autrijus :)
02:04 stevan I have a test for you too
02:04 stevan I am going to commit once this build finishes
02:04 stevan method chaining
02:04 stevan $foo.bar().baz() was not working
02:04 stevan could not find &baz was the error
02:05 autrijus right. I even know why
02:05 stevan cool
02:05 autrijus basically invs needs to be reduced before findSub.
02:05 autrijus otherwise can't know the exact type of $foo.bar() to lookup baz with
02:06 autrijus but it's a nontrivial change -- and not at all sure what needs to happen when there are two .baz imposing different context to its inv
02:06 stevan ok
02:06 autrijus hm. maybe we can do away by declaring the correct return type in ".bar"
02:06 stevan well I will commit the test
02:06 autrijus then use that type in the mmd
02:06 autrijus but yeah, just commit the test
02:07 stevan I dont /need/ it
02:07 stevan I would just /like/ it :)
02:07 autrijus :)
02:09 stevan so how useful to you is this Meta-Model stuff mugwump and I are doing
02:09 autrijus extremely
02:09 stevan ok
02:09 stevan good
02:09 stevan its fun
02:09 stevan meta-meta-hacking :)
02:09 autrijus :)
02:10 stevan I actually now have a reason to read my metaclass book
02:10 autrijus without it I can't delta with parrot and nudge leo to fix things :)
02:10 autrijus and I'll probably backport it to Class.hs
02:11 autrijus down to 66 failed, 7 unexpected success
02:21 crysflame heh
02:21 crysflame you woke wilx up
02:21 crysflame that's just.. cool
02:21 crysflame not for wilx but still :)
02:25 stevan it must have sounded like wilx's computer was going nuts too
02:26 stevan all those notices one after the other :)
02:27 stevan oh autrijus, one other request if you please :)
02:27 stevan I need some way to identify objects as unique
02:27 stevan =:= would be nice
02:27 stevan but baring that
02:27 stevan maybe some kind of hex address like perl5 does
02:28 stevan and if thats not possible, I can hack something myself for now
02:30 crysflame should all instances of a singleton object identify as the same unique object?
02:30 stevan yes
02:30 stevan that is the definition of a singleton really
02:31 * stevan goes off to read more of his metaclass book :)
02:31 stevan autrijus++
02:31 stevan autrijus++
02:31 stevan autrijus++
02:32 * stevan dreams of a day when he can code /only/ in perl6 :)
02:35 mugwump and Haskell!  :)
02:40 autrijus stevan: chaining.t should now pass. I'm smoking to make sure I didn't break things before I commit
02:44 mugwump chain smoking!
02:45 * crysflame remembers the [email@hidden.address] debate fondly
02:45 mugwump summary, crysflame ?
02:45 mugwump or a case of "you had to be there sitting on the sidelines" ?  :)
02:46 crysflame "smoking is bad"
02:46 crysflame "it's a pun, laugh
02:46 crysflame "no! i refuse to laugh"
02:46 crysflame end summary
02:47 crysflame http://use.perl.org/articl​e.pl?sid=01/02/19/1321228
02:47 crysflame "After a small dispute over the naming scheme, the 'smokers' list was renamed to 'daily-build' instead. 'smokers' was retained as an alias, however. "
02:48 crysflame "Of course, as with all good ideas, it was nearly drowned out by lots and lots of trivial bickering. Schwern had called the mailing list [email@hidden.address] and the smoke testing software SmokingJacket. This produced objections from non-smokers and recovering smokers, and started a long and tedious objection - counterproposal cycle. Eventually, the list was given an alias of daily-build@perl.org."
02:48 crysflame officially, the list is daily-build with an alias smokers@.
02:49 mugwump I love the title of that use.perl.org article - "Help Smoke Camels"
02:53 * mugwump is a sucker for|of clove cigarettes
02:58 autrijus stevan: you could've used
02:58 autrijus $_foo3 =:= $_foo2 =:= $_foo1 =:= $foo
02:58 autrijus and anyway, =:= is there now.
02:58 autrijus committing
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03:00 mugwump so, does 7 =:= 7 ?
03:00 autrijus sure.
03:00 autrijus all pure values are identical to themselves.
03:01 mugwump this implies some distinction between pure things and complex things
03:01 autrijus sure. one can be written to.
03:01 mugwump the reason I ask is it makes an important difference when writing the Set class
03:02 mugwump but does "7" =:= 7, say?
03:02 autrijus woot, chaining.t all passes
03:02 autrijus pugs> "7" =:= 7
03:02 autrijus bool::false
03:02 autrijus you can try it for yourself :)
03:02 mugwump :P
03:02 * mugwump svn up's
03:03 mugwump So, anyway, I was contemplating the difference between a Hash and a Map
03:03 autrijus in haskell, Hash is destructive, Map is not
03:04 mugwump thinking, a Hash is a Map where the keys must be stringifyable, and no two objects that stringify to the same thing can be used for different keys
03:04 mugwump Whereas a Map is where the object's uniqueness is the key
03:04 mugwump ie, Map is to =:=, as Hash is to ==
03:04 mugwump or eq
03:06 mugwump Which leads me to ponder whether a Map *can* be implemented in terms of a Hash
03:07 autrijus hm. Map requires Ord
03:07 autrijus (which implies Eq)
03:07 autrijus and Hash requires a (key -> Int32)
03:07 mugwump You sort of need that Map-ness to implement a set..
03:08 autrijus (which doens't imply anything)
03:08 mugwump ok, so a hash only requires a hashing method, not stringify?
03:08 autrijus right.
03:09 mugwump Then it could still use =:= on the key
03:09 mugwump And just like you can have two entries in a hash that hash to the same value, you could have two keys that stringify to the same value if they are unique objects
03:09 autrijus sure.
03:10 autrijus but you need a general (Object -> Int32) thing first
03:10 mugwump However, that raises the issue of how you refer to those entries.  You can't just pull them by string anymore
03:10 mugwump Object -> int32 is easy, just use the pointer address and don't tell anyone (or some other useless identifier)
03:10 autrijus well then, you can pull them out by their memory address ;)
03:11 mugwump no, because that's the hash value, which is useless for pulling values out from a user interface point of view
03:12 mugwump This has the implication of losing one trick - returning strings that are actually objects with a stringify method
03:12 mugwump as used by, say, URI
03:12 mugwump You would have to explicitly stringify the use
03:13 autrijus right.
03:15 mugwump so, what about tacking 'out of band' stuff onto strings
03:15 mugwump eg my $foo = '0' but true;
03:15 mugwump is that a pure and simple scalar, or a deviant?
03:16 * mugwump starts up his shiny new pugs build
03:17 mugwump or is it simply a syntax error
03:17 * mugwump hmms
03:18 autrijus "0 but true" is always an Int object
03:18 autrijus unlike "0" which is an int value
03:19 mugwump right
03:22 * mugwump makes a start on t/operators/identity.t
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03:28 putter Hi folks.  I've been porting the Perl6::Rules test files to (current) p6.
03:28 putter It's time for a checkin.  Other eyes, time passing, and not sure I'll be able to work on it tomorrow.
03:30 putter But I can't actually run any of it.  My cvs-ghc HEAD simply isnt building, so rules are still a nogo.
03:30 autrijus check them into t/rules/Disabled first?
03:30 putter So I was thinking of t/rules/Disabled/from_perl6_rules.  Comments?
03:30 putter ;)
03:31 autrijus sure, that worksforme
03:31 putter will do.
03:31 autrijus we're close to 5000 tests :)
03:31 machack666 has joined #perl6
03:31 putter :)
03:32 putter well, here come another 5k, though almost all of that is unicode.
03:32 autrijus wow.
03:33 * autrijus { for -> $impact {} }
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03:34 putter unfortunately, it was ancient (apr '04), so the p6... wasn't.
03:37 autrijus we're down to a respectable 32 failures in 11 tests
03:39 crysflame happy r3000
03:40 autrijus :)
03:41 stevan autrijus: should I update the changelog?
03:41 stevan or wait a little longer
03:42 autrijus stevan: please do update it
03:42 autrijus no major features is planned before 6.2.3.
03:43 autrijus we already delayed for one week to get classes and rules in :)
03:43 stevan excellent
03:43 autrijus what's left is fixing the 7 or so regressions
03:43 autrijus and ship :)
03:43 putter the tests required extensive rewriting.  I expect some of them are buggy. ah well.
03:44 autrijus putter: it's important to get started :)
03:44 putter *nod*
03:44 autrijus stevan: also, if you have some time, try look into why golf.t is failing
03:44 autrijus it may be the golf script themselves are bad.
03:44 autrijus not sure.
03:44 autrijus bbl. :) &
03:45 stevan ok
03:45 * stevan just ate a handful of chocolate covered espresso beans :)
03:45 stevan I should be good for a few hours
03:47 putter ok, thanks folks.  good night.
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03:47 stevan 'night putter
03:58 f0rth hello
03:58 stevan hullo
03:58 crysflame hi, f0rth
03:59 stevan crysflame: should that be f0rth, hi
03:59 stevan :)
03:59 crysflame heh
04:00 f0rth switched to wrong channel to test bot ^^"
04:03 stevan autrijus: oh, I almost forgot
04:03 stevan classes seems to be file scoped
04:04 mugwump ouch
04:04 stevan so class defined in MyClass.pm is not available when you use MyClass;
04:04 stevan mugwump: yeah, its a bugger
04:05 stevan mugwump: BTW - my metaclass book is proving helpful,... although they are only talking about meta-classes,.. not meta-meta classes
04:05 stevan but it is helping me get my head around this more
04:09 mugwump the great thing is that we can actually start at either the M3 or M2 layer
04:09 stevan mugwump: I would like to get what we have already done into real objects
04:10 stevan then maybe see what we have
04:10 mugwump ok.  I'm just in the process of releasing this site I've been working on today and yesterday, should clean up this week's professional work :)
04:10 stevan btw - are you planning on building a set class?
04:10 mugwump yes
04:10 stevan ok
04:10 stevan good
04:11 scw revdiablo: thanks for updating debian/ :) I was totally occupied these days
04:13 revdiablo scw: no problem, I only built the debian package 10 times before noticing. :)
04:25 stevan autrijus: changelog updated :)
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04:53 stevan hmmm, it seems like objects are destroyed a little too quickly at times
04:53 stevan writing a test
04:57 stevan actually maybe not
04:57 stevan hmmm
05:01 crysflame write the test anyways
05:01 stevan crysflame: its not the issue
05:01 stevan its very hard to isolate this
05:02 stevan however @array_of_foo_objects[0].bar() does not work
05:02 stevan but I suspect that is a known issue
05:03 crysflame huh
05:03 stevan it is probably related to the method chaining issue
05:03 stevan (which is mostly fixed)
05:04 stevan it is not easy to know what @array_of_foo_objects[0] will be,... and therefore hard to find the compatible &bar method
05:08 Khisanth in "- return map {.4.} sort {.3.} grep {.2.} map {.1.}" from http://svn.openfoundry.org/​pugs/modules/PORTING_HOWTO what are all those .s for?
05:17 * mugwump umms and ahhs about whether to use junctions or hashes to implement the Set class
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05:33 stevan mugwump: junctions would be cooler, but hashes might be easier
05:33 * stevan goes off to sleep, back in ~8 hours &
05:37 f0rth and now ext/Set/Makefile.PL is broken?
05:46 mj41 *** Error: Can't locate Perl6/MakeMaker.pm in @INC
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05:59 mj41 f0rth: r3051 fixed?
06:01 f0rth yes, fixed :D
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07:28 gaal ./pugs.exe -e 'my @a = <1 2 3 4>;map { $_ += 1 }, (@a)'
07:28 gaal *** Error: Can't modify constant item: VNum 2.0 at -e line 1, column 25-33
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07:28 gaal this is a bug, isn't it? map's $_ should be rw like for's, no?
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08:30 osfameron (Jonathan Worthington)++ # Win32 pugs build
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08:45 osfameron yay, pugs interpreter doesn't interpret each statement in an eval!
08:45 osfameron my $x=123
08:45 osfameron say $x;   # still 123
08:58 mj41 congratulations ... 737/4914 subtests failed, 85.00% okay.
08:58 mj41 WinXP, r3051
09:03 mj41 history ... r1600 - 1308/4135 subtests failed, 68.37% okay.
09:04 osfameron Hmmm, tried to build pugs (WinXP nmake, GHC 6.4 binary, no parrot) and get
09:04 osfameron makefile(414) : fatal error U1087: cannot have : and :: dependents for same target
09:09 Juerd Perhaps try cygwin, with a real make?
09:10 mj41 my nmake is ok .... http://xrl.us/ff9b
09:10 osfameron Juerd: you don't want pugs to run on Windows natively?
09:11 Juerd I personally don't really care :)
09:15 osfameron GNU Make version 3.78.1 also fails with makefile:307: *** multiple target patterns
09:18 mj41 parrot only with mingw32-make and pugs only with nmake :-)
09:18 * osfameron curses his lack of make-fu
09:18 osfameron ah
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09:32 f0rth I am playing Net::IRC and found that 'normalize (split " ", $event<rest>)[0]' on line 147 is incorrect now
09:32 Juerd f0rth: [...][0]
09:32 f0rth normalize((split " ", $event<rest>)[0]) is ok
09:33 Juerd Oh, wow, did that break?
09:33 * Juerd upgrades
09:33 Juerd I'll have pugs built an an hour :)
09:35 f0rth build 7 times today until now  :p
09:43 f0rth a question from logbot.p6, the result of rx:P5/^\001ACTION (.*)\001?$/ includes the last \001, is that correct?
09:44 f0rth or removing the "?"?
09:45 Juerd It is correct, I think
09:46 Juerd CTCP is enclosed in \cA\cA, but the second is sometimes not sent by stupid clients
09:47 f0rth so that's the reason, thanks :)
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09:52 f0rth the second one is always printed now
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10:05 autrijus f0rth: want committer bit to fix this?
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10:11 f0rth I always generate C-like code :)
10:11 autrijus that's fine :)
10:12 Juerd f0rth: Let fixing that up to others then :)
10:12 Juerd A simple "XXX - restyle" is a good indicator
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10:12 autrijus fixed, btw.
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10:13 Juerd autrijus: Why do arrayrefs .perl-ize as \()?
10:14 autrijus Juerd: no good reason at all
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10:14 Juerd autrijus: Can it be []? That's somewhat (a lot) easier to read, especially when combined with () :)
10:15 webmind ([7,8,0], [4,5,6], [1,2,3]); ?
10:16 Juerd rather than (\(7,8,0), \(4,5,6), \(1,2,3))
10:16 autrijus Juerd: I can do that, but you have to fix the failing tests that tests .perl for me :)
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10:17 Juerd autrijus: Sure
10:17 Juerd autrijus: { x => $x + $dx, y => $y + $dy } is parsed as a sub - on purpose, or bug?
10:19 fagzal has joined #perl6
10:19 autrijus a bug. tested, even
10:19 Juerd There are exactly two occurrences of \() with .perl, in tests
10:19 Juerd So that's doable :)
10:19 autrijus x => 3+4  currently parses a (x=>3)+4
10:19 Juerd Ahh
10:19 Juerd So adding parens to ($x+$dx) oughta do the trick for now?
10:19 autrijus yeah
10:20 Juerd (I'm avoiding "hash" now)
10:20 autrijus and ($y+$dy)
10:20 autrijus ok, [] prettification is in
10:20 autrijus r3056
10:20 Juerd hash is .perl-ized as \(..., ...)  # stub?
10:20 Juerd Thanks
10:22 autrijus np
10:22 Juerd Hm, no, it's not the hash that's .perl-ized like that. Weird.
10:22 Juerd autrijus: Same suggestion for hashes: {} :)
10:22 Juerd And pairs: =>
10:23 Juerd So that .perl is actually perl code :)
10:23 autrijus ok, ok.
10:23 Juerd I'm currently mixing arrays, hashes and pairs
10:23 Juerd And only the past few minutes I've began to understand that the output isn't wrong at all :)
10:23 Juerd Just a little surprising
10:24 Juerd (Though I don't know if an arrayref can be used as pair or hash)
10:24 autrijus all done. committing
10:24 autrijus (you'll have much more to fix!)
10:27 autrijus r3057. please fix away :)
10:29 Juerd Will do
10:29 Juerd autrijus: I'm getting weird results for nested loops - any attempt to shorten the code unbreaks the code
10:30 Juerd Or, perhaps not
10:30 Juerd While you're fixing stuff, fix my brain too please :)
10:30 autrijus sure, send the source of your brain to p6c
10:30 autrijus I'll see what I can do
10:33 fagzal has left "Yo da men!"
10:36 Juerd autrijus: I have a case of nested for loops, the inner body being { say ...; ... and next; }, somehow the say isn't executed
10:37 Juerd Ahh
10:37 Juerd autrijus: if I have 4 nested for loops, "next" in the 4th operates on the 3rd
10:38 autrijus .. wtf?
10:38 autrijus check in a test please :)
10:38 Juerd First I'm recompiling pugs and fixing existing tests
10:38 autrijus "make unoptimised" is your friend, btw.
10:39 Juerd ok
10:40 Juerd ./pugs -e'for 1..3 -> $a { say "a = $a"; for 1..3 -> $b { say "b = $b"; next } }'
10:42 Juerd Wow
10:42 Juerd There isn't a single test that tests hashes or arrays based on .perl's output
10:42 Juerd There's one occurrence of \(, and that's for a junction
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10:53 autrijus Juerd: fixed... the bug is caused by one less indentation level than needed
10:53 autrijus a simple >> in vim fixed it ;)
10:53 autrijus isn't significant whitespace great?
10:57 Juerd No!
10:57 Juerd Well, significant whitespace is okay. Significant indentation is not :)
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10:59 autrijus and next.t now passes :)
11:00 Juerd Yep :)
11:03 Juerd a[f[k[p<[ulqv]>?|g<[blchm]>?|l<[qhmr]>?|q<[uvmr​w]>?]?|b[g<[lchm]>?|c<[hdi]>?|h<[lmdin]>?]?|g[l​<[pqhmr]>?|c<[hdi]>?|h<[mdin]>?|m<[qrins]>?]?|l​[p<[uqv]>?|q<[uvmrw]>?|h<[cmdin]>?|m<[rins]>?|r​<[vwnsx]>?]?]?|b[g[k<[plq]>?|l<[pqhmr]>?|c<[hdi​]>?|h<[mdin]>?|m<[qrins]>?]?|c[h<[lmdin]>?|d<[i​ej]>?|i<[mnejo]>?]?|h[l<[kpqmr]>?|m<[qrins]>?|d​<[iej]>?|i<[nejo]>?|n<[rsjot]>?]?]?|g[k[p<[ulqv​]>?|l<[qhmr]>?|q<[uvmrw]>?]?|l[p<[uqv]>?|q<[uvm​rw]>?|h<[cmdin]>?|m<[rins]>?|r<[vwnsx]>?]?|c[
11:03 Juerd YEEHAW
11:03 Juerd First part works.
11:03 Juerd Now to create 25 of these
11:04 Juerd How dependent one can be on not-flattening, working next and handy debugging tools (pretty .perl) amazes me
11:04 autrijus ah. right. charclass now works in Pugs's bundled pge
11:04 Juerd The same thing 2 days ago didn't work *at all*
11:05 autrijus :)
11:06 Juerd I had to recode some parts to avoid gather/take though
11:06 Juerd (I had written this months ago)
11:06 autrijus say, is gather/take coro-like, or not?
11:06 Juerd Not really
11:06 Juerd gather returns a list
11:06 Juerd A list of whatever inner "take" collected
11:07 Juerd @foo = gather { for 1..5 { take } }
11:07 Juerd equals @foo = 1..5
11:07 Juerd This way you can avoid my @foo; for 1..5 { push @foo, $_ }
11:07 Juerd Which has @foo redundant
11:07 Juerd Which for some people, including me, feels unclean
11:07 wolverian it's certainly a coroutine (take is just a yield)
11:08 Juerd wolverian: It doesn't have more than one entry or exit point
11:08 Juerd 'take' simply pushes
11:08 Juerd It doesn't terminate anything
11:08 Juerd Every gather block has an implicit array, onto which take pushes
11:08 wolverian hmm. but it can be implemented as such. after taking, gather would yield itself back to the user code.
11:09 wolverian s,after taking,after each take,
11:09 Juerd It shouldn't do that.
11:09 Juerd If you want that, use a coro.
11:09 wolverian I don't see a practical difference.
11:09 Juerd This is for building lists. A way to use statements instead of expressions
11:09 autrijus luqui seems to want gather/take vs Lazy list to act as coro.
11:10 autrijus i.e. gather is a generator
11:10 wolverian that seems sensible.
11:10 Juerd `gather` is a `map` that has no input list, and can take more than once
11:10 Juerd autrijus: When did pugs start, by the way?
11:10 wolverian Juerd: I know what it is, and what I described implements that, with coroutine semantics.
11:10 wolverian at least as far as I can see. :)
11:10 autrijus Juerd: 100 days ago
11:10 wolverian (which isn't really far at all.)
11:10 Juerd wolverian: Then I don't understand coroutines well enough
11:10 Juerd autrijus: Was that before or after feb 4?
11:11 autrijus feb 1st
11:11 Juerd I wrote the script I'm refitting that day
11:11 Juerd It's close to its first run ;)
11:12 wolverian Juerd: right. both the { ... } given to gather and gather itself are coroutines, to be exact. when the user code calls take, execution returns to gather, which pushes the arg (think of take as a return) to the list being gathered. (er, array..) then gather yield()s back to the user code doing the take; the execution continues immediately after the take.
11:13 Juerd Ah
11:13 Juerd I don't see why that's useful
11:14 Juerd It seems more complex than simply pushing onto an implicit array :)
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11:14 wolverian sure. I don't know either, except maybe take() can be implemented more cleanly this way.
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11:28 Juerd It's taking a hell of a lot of time, but it appears to WORK :)
11:28 * Juerd restarts it | tee rule
11:28 Juerd Don't want to wait for building the rule more than once (takes .5 seconds in p5)
11:30 Juerd autrijus: How can it build a huge rule, recursively, with constant memory usage?
11:30 Juerd H
11:30 Juerd m
11:31 Juerd I'm probably better off using an optimized build for these
11:31 Juerd this
11:34 Juerd I just realised that in Perl 6, you don't have to prebuild the rule
11:34 Juerd And can even go into unlimited depth of words to be found
11:34 Juerd But that's an exercise for much later
11:40 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
11:40 * Juerd wonders how join.t was wrong
11:42 autrijus join("|", [1,2,3])
11:42 autrijus that [] doesn't flatten, no?
11:42 autrijus please don't say it flattens now :)
11:42 autrijus oh btw:
11:42 autrijus * (a => 3+4) is now parsed as (a => (3+4)), not (a => 3)+4.
11:42 autrijus r3068
11:42 sekimura has quit IRC ("zzz...")
11:43 Juerd autrijus: No
11:43 autrijus so that's how it was wrong
11:43 autrijus it was assuming *[1,2,3]
11:44 Juerd autrijus: Although it's entirely possible that join, the function itself, flattens arrayrefs
11:44 Juerd I don't think there's spec on this
11:44 autrijus it's not specced as such in Rod's, iirc
11:44 Juerd I'm not asking p6l either. Flatless is good here.
11:45 Juerd And flattening with join, but not other functions, leads to surprises
11:46 autrijus down to 14 fails.
11:47 Juerd Wow
11:47 Juerd impressive, autrijus
11:47 Juerd autrijus++
11:47 autrijus 13 now.
11:47 autrijus in 4 tests
11:49 Juerd I wonder if when this matrix.p6 fun is finished, I have the largest Perl 6 rule ever created ;)
11:49 Juerd If it ever finishes, that is :)
11:51 scook0 autrijus: may I pick your brain for a bit?
11:51 autrijus scook0: yes?
11:51 scook0 I have a bunch of pugs-internals questions that I've been accumulating...
11:51 scook0 about Pads:
11:52 ajs morning all. Juerd, do you ever sleep? :)
11:52 scook0 they map from names to /lists/ of refs, right?
11:52 Juerd ajs: Yes. Think timezones.
11:52 scook0 is that for multisubs, where the same sub name maps to multiple sub objects?
11:56 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
11:56 Juerd Office time :(
11:56 autrijus scook0: yes and yes.
11:56 scook0 autrijus: cool, that's what I thought
11:56 autrijus scook0: I'm been thinking to split a Pad entry into single and multiple variants
11:57 autrijus MkPad !(Map Var ([(TVar Bool, TVar VRef)]))
11:57 autrijus becomes
11:57 scook0 yeah, the whole list thing is a bit confusing if it only gets used for one purpose
11:58 autrijus data Pad = MkPad !(Map Var PadEntry)
11:58 autrijus data PadEntry = MkEntry (TVar Bool, TVar VRef) | MkEntryMulti [(TVar Bool, TVar VRef)]
11:58 autrijus yeah. but it's not critical, so is low priority
11:58 Juerd I HAVE THE RULE
11:58 autrijus down to 3 failing tests.
11:58 scook0 well, if I start feeling confident about /writing/ Haskell I might give it a try sometime
11:58 autrijus Juerd: YOU RULE
11:59 autrijus has $.source is rw;
11:59 scook0 actually, that reminds me of another question about confusing lists
11:59 scook0 I'm not sure why SlurpLimit needs to be a list
12:00 Juerd http://juerd.nl/bigrule.txt
12:00 Juerd firefox cowardly refuses to display a 71995 character line.
12:00 scook0 if I'm not mistaken, SlurpLimits are never given more than one entry
12:01 scook0 SlurpLimits are only used for subs with a finite number of slurpy scalars and no slurpy array, right?
12:01 Juerd autrijus: I'll check in matrix.p6, though it's far from completion or prettiness
12:01 wolverian Juerd: it displays it fine here.
12:02 autrijus scook0: .assuming will impose multiple limits
12:02 wolverian Juerd: what does that rule do? :)
12:02 autrijus because you can assume (curry) multiple times
12:02 scook0 ah
12:02 chady is now known as chady_
12:02 autrijus mmm
12:02 autrijus "Pugs now powers the Matrix"
12:02 scook0 I'll have to write that in the docs then
12:03 scook0 Am I correct in that they only apply to subs that take a finite number of slurpy scalars?
12:04 Juerd wolverian: See svn commit comment that will appear soonish
12:04 scook0 Slurpy array params seem to nuke the SlurpLimit
12:04 Juerd autrijus: Should it run faster with parrot?
12:04 scook0 because slurpy arrays can take any number of args
12:05 Juerd wolverian: 3070
12:05 wolverian waiting for svnbot6 to pick it up.
12:06 Juerd If it displays the comment verbatim entirely, it'll flood the channel :)
12:07 autrijus scook0: yes, and yes.
12:07 Juerd It does.
12:07 scook0 autrijus: thanks
12:08 scook0 autrijux: My next question is: what's the difference between (Syn "=>" ... ) and (App "&infix:=>" ... ) ?
12:08 scook0 is the Syn form obsolete?
12:09 wolverian Juerd: how long does it take perl5 to generate the rule?
12:10 wolverian oh. the second includes that time.
12:11 Juerd imcc_compile_file: couldn't find 'library/Data/Escape.imc'
12:11 autrijus scook0: no, both are in use
12:11 autrijus scook0: I think we should unify to one of them, though
12:11 autrijus there's no difference.
12:11 Juerd wolverian: svn up to see matrix.p6
12:11 Juerd eh
12:12 Juerd wolverian: svn up to see matrix.p5
12:13 autrijus Juerd: should be fixed now; try again
12:13 Juerd I have to go to the office now, for real :(
12:13 Juerd I'll try later
12:14 Juerd (Though you can try it yourself too if you want)
12:14 autrijus k.
12:15 Limbic_Region morning all - was just catching up on what looked like an exciting day on p6.l
12:16 scook0 autrijus: At the moment, if you call a sub that has multiple slurpy arrays, Pugs deliberately binds the first one normally, and makes all the rest empty
12:17 scook0 Is this proper behaviour, or is it just a quirk of the current implementation?
12:17 autrijus no, that's specced.
12:17 autrijus i.e. correct
12:17 scook0 ok
12:18 scook0 actually, are slurpy hash params supposed to be working?
12:18 scook0 I ask this because they appear to be implemented, but they don't seem to actually work
12:18 scook0 Is this just because there aren't any tests for them?
12:20 autrijus pugs> sub foo (*@_, *%x) { say %x } foo( c => 3 )
12:20 autrijus c 3
12:20 autrijus worksforme
12:20 autrijus er, or not.
12:20 autrijus probably not.
12:21 autrijus yeah, it's very broken. tests welcome :)
12:21 autrijus mark them as :todo<bug> for now
12:21 scook0 ok
12:23 scook0 autrijus: I think that's all the questions I had written down -- thanks :)
12:26 autrijus :)
12:26 autrijus ok. in that case... preflight will start in a few minutes!
12:28 elmex has quit IRC ("schiessn")
12:35 cognominal autrijus: is this difficult to support the   sub prefix:<OPNAME>    syntax in pugs?
12:35 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:36 Odin- has joined #perl6
12:36 autrijus cognominal: it's quite trivial
12:36 autrijus but I'm in preflight. :) write tests
12:36 Hoppy has joined #perl6
12:37 cognominal I am still in larval stage ofr haskell :(
12:40 pernod has joined #perl6
12:40 autrijus tests doesn't need haskell-fu :)
12:44 pdcawley has quit IRC ("Leaving")
12:44 cognominal haskell-fu?
12:45 DapperDan has joined #perl6
12:47 Shillo has joined #perl6
12:47 Shillo Hullo, folks!
12:48 Hoppy is now known as [nz]Hoppy
12:51 autrijus please "make test" :)
12:51 autrijus preflight #1: http://pugscode.org/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.3-pre1.tar.gz
12:51 [nz]Hoppy has quit IRC ()
12:51 autrijus changes topic to: Preflight #1: http://pugscode.org/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.3-pre1.tar.gz | pugscode.org <Overview Journal Logs> | pugs.kwiki.org
13:01 autrijus http://autrijus.org/tmp/changes-6.2.3.html # primitive changelog
13:03 pernod has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:07 broquaint has quit IRC ("who wants switch()?")
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13:13 stevan *sniff* *sniff*
13:13 stevan ahh I love the smell of smoking Pugs in the morning
13:13 scook0 has quit IRC ("time for sleep...")
13:16 castaway has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
13:16 autrijus hey stevan. :)
13:18 stevan hey autrijus
13:18 stevan I see we are in preflight
13:19 autrijus yes.
13:19 stevan I am building now
13:19 autrijus Config-Tiny doesn't pass tests
13:19 stevan ok
13:19 stevan I will look at it
13:20 DapperDan has joined #perl6
13:23 puetzk has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:23 autrijus stevan: also please check:
13:23 autrijus t/10_unix_test.t               101   10   9.90%  41 82-90
13:23 autrijus t/20_win32_test.t              165    1   0.61%  4
13:23 autrijus (that's File::Spec)
13:23 stevan ok
13:24 autrijus aw
13:24 autrijus t/entities.t                9    3  33.33%  2-4
13:25 autrijus and LWP::Simple:
13:25 autrijus *** Error: Unhandled/unknown proxy settings: "": NonTerm (MkPos "/home/autrijus/work/dist/pu​gs/blib6/lib/LWP/Simple.pm" 169 7 169 76): NonTerm (MkPos "/home/autrijus/work/dist/pu​gs/blib6/lib/LWP/Simple.pm" 62 13 62 48) at t/live.t line 77, column 14-24
13:25 autrijus t/getprint.t    1   256     3    0   0.00%  ??
13:25 autrijus t/live.t        1   256    29   54 186.21%  3-29
13:26 iblechbot has joined #perl6
13:26 autrijus and your P::E::P:
13:26 autrijus t/basic.t         1   256     5    6 120.00%  3-5
13:26 autrijus t/basic_html.t    1   256     3    2  66.67%  3
13:26 autrijus t/complex.t       1   256     3    2  66.67%  3
13:33 autrijus that's all there is
13:33 stevan ok, build donw
13:33 stevan i will attack these right now
13:36 autrijus stevan++
13:36 autrijus I'll brb
13:37 stevan oh, very odd
13:40 Juerd autrijus: Should fixed pugsbugs tests be moved to pugsbugs/fixed?
13:42 autrijus Juerd: no, they should be moved to other t/ directories
13:42 stevan autrijus: this is one of the Config::Tiny errors
13:42 stevan pugs -e '"hello " ~~ rx:perl5/^(.*?)\s(.*)$/; my %h; %h{$0} = $1; say %h.keys; say %h<hello> ?? "true" :: "false";'
13:42 stevan prints: hello \n true
13:43 stevan %h<hello> is the match (\MkMatch {matchOk = True, matchFrom = 6, matchTo = 6, matchStr = "", matchSubPos = [], matchSubNamed = {}})
13:44 Juerd autrijus: ok
13:44 stevan autrijus: is that correct behavior?
13:45 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
13:45 stevan hey nothingmuch :)
13:45 nothingmuch hola
13:50 stevan autrijus: Config::Tiny has been fixed
13:50 stevan moving onto File::Spec
14:02 SM_ax has quit IRC ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.7/20050420]")
14:03 stevan guten morgen iblech
14:05 iblech has joined #perl6
14:05 iblech Should new tests be TODOed currently?
14:06 jhorwitz has joined #perl6
14:09 stevan iblech: what do you mean new tests?
14:09 iblech stevan: I wanted to write a test for %*ENV.exists(), as it doesn't work ATM
14:09 iblech stevan: Should I TODO it?
14:10 stevan hmmm, I would say yes since we are in preflight
14:10 iblech ok
14:10 stevan but i will leave the final descision to autrijus
14:11 iblech :todo<bug>?
14:11 cognominal how comes  "my $x; my $x" succeed in intereactive pugs but  fails in a test?
14:11 cognominal anyway it should fail because , "it's illegal to declare $x twice in the same scope."
14:12 PerlJam cognominal: is it illegal?  If so, why?
14:13 autrijus iblech: no, don't todo it.
14:13 autrijus because it's, like, fixed.
14:13 autrijus committing
14:13 iblech autrijus++ :)
14:13 cognominal # L S<o4/The Relationship of Blocks and Declarations>
14:13 stevan autrijus++
14:13 stevan iblech++
14:13 cognominal it is stated verbatim there
14:14 autrijus cognominal: yes, I noticed. write a test with todo<bug>
14:14 PerlJam cognominal: ah, so it is.
14:14 PerlJam I was thinking the perl5 behavior would continue on that one
14:14 autrijus env.t all passes :)
14:17 stevan File::Spec passes
14:17 autrijus woot
14:17 iblech FYI, I'm fixing LWP::Simple ATM
14:18 stevan I tried to fix the Win32 abs2rel bug, but I have not yet had enough coffee, so I left it TODO
14:18 autrijus k.
14:18 stevan moving onto P::E::E
14:18 stevan s/E$/P/
14:22 iblech Hm... connect $h, 8086 works fine, but connect $h, $p (where $p == 8086), does not ("pugs: connect: does not exist (Connection refused)")
14:23 iblech That's weird, as I use variables for the port numbers in Net::IRC, too, and there, they work fine...
14:24 autrijus it worksforme.
14:24 DapperDan has quit IRC ()
14:25 iblech Yeah, and it works in the interactive shell, too, w/o problems
14:26 iblech But not in _send_request of LWP::Simple... investigating
14:26 nothingmuch iblech: apropos _send_requst, shouldn't that be 'http_proxy' and not 'HTTP_PROXY'? or at least both?
14:27 hachi has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
14:27 iblech nothingmuch: I didn't write the original code, but you're certainly right. Fixing
14:28 nothingmuch oh crap, now I se what my problem is
14:28 nothingmuch svn up loop was broken
14:28 autrijus iblech: I know.
14:29 autrijus fixing.
14:29 iblech excellent. :)
14:29 nothingmuch time for parrot to be installed too
14:29 cognominal autrijus: http://wagner.elixus.org/~​autrijus/svk-overview.png ==> 404
14:29 stevan autrijus: did you see my note about the match?
14:30 autrijus stevan: yeah, same problem
14:30 autrijus cognominal: mv to http://autrijus.org/svk-overview.png
14:31 autrijus the reason is
14:31 autrijus $0 is a match obj
14:31 autrijus match obj numifies to number of submatches
14:31 autrijus I'm making $0 etc into stringified match obj now.
14:31 nothingmuch oi, parrot won't make -j3
14:31 autrijus not sure if it's according to spec
14:31 nothingmuch *sigh*
14:32 autrijus but certainly less painful
14:32 autrijus committed. please test to see that it works now
14:33 autrijus stevan: you may not need "$foo" anymore; $foo would do
14:33 autrijus food &
14:33 * nothingmuch goes to get pita + labane while things are building
14:34 Limbic_Region mmmm food
14:36 cognominal what are all these empty merges when I do a svk push?
14:37 iblech autrijus: connect() works now :)
14:37 clkao eek
14:39 stevan Pod::Event::Parser fixed (that pesky $0 again)
14:40 masak has joined #perl6
14:41 * Limbic_Region wonders if we will jump from version 6.28 to 6.2831 since pmichaud has already given us rules and grammars
14:43 kungfuftr where's the roadmap again?
14:45 PerlJam kungfuftr: http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pug​s/trunk/docs/01Overview.html
14:45 iblech kungfuftr: docs/01Overview.html
14:45 PerlJam search for "roadmap"
14:45 PerlJam Limbic_Region: nah, I don't think so ... rules and grammars hasn't been vetted enough
14:45 kungfuftr ta
14:46 stevan Limbic_Region: we also dont have full classes and traits
14:46 stevan (we dont have traits at all actually)
14:46 stevan (or rather Roles)
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14:48 iblech cognominal: There's no local() in Perl 6, it's called temp() instead, and one is allowed to use temp() on a variable multiple times
14:49 cognominal my bad
14:49 cognominal are you sure about the "multiple times"?
14:49 iblech yes
14:49 PerlJam cognominal: you *must* be able to temp multiple times.
14:49 cognominal I am sure multiple times are not allowed on lexicals
14:49 PerlJam That's the prime benefit
14:50 cognominal on the same scope?
14:50 PerlJam cognominal: sure you can temp a lexical multiple times
14:50 PerlJam Unless this is one of the behaviors that will *really* surprise me with perl6
14:51 Limbic_Region stevan - think I wasn't clear
14:52 Limbic_Region 6.28 to 6.2813 implied that we did get full classes and traits
14:52 Limbic_Region we would just be skipping over 6.281 (rules and grammars)
14:53 cognominal PerlJam: so I am sure that "my $x; my $x" is an error, but currently it does not parse as a test, but it works on interactive pugs
14:53 Limbic_Region or rather, was what I was trying to imply
14:53 PerlJam cognominal: It doesn't say in the synopses whether or not you can temp a var multiple times in the same scope.  I can't even find an example that implies it.
14:53 cognominal how should I test.
14:53 iblech cognominal: That's because you wrote $x in the test description, which was double quoted. (Fixed.)
14:54 cognominal PerlJam:  in S04:  (It's illegal to declare $x twice in the same scope.)
14:55 PerlJam cognominal: temp isn't a declaration
14:55 cognominal but the only example given is a lexical declaration
14:56 PerlJam state $x; state $x should be an error too (I haven't looked if there's a test or not)
14:57 iblech PerlJam: It's tested in cognominal++'s t/var/var.t
14:59 cognominal how much of smart matching is implemented?
15:00 iblech IIRC $str ~~ rx/.../ and $object ~~ Class (but maybe other things, too)
15:00 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:00 Odin- has joined #perl6
15:03 Juerd My local repository is very fucked up
15:03 Juerd I'm starting over
15:03 Juerd (svn--  # refuses to let me correct mistakes)
15:04 puetzk has joined #perl6
15:09 pmichaud has joined #perl6
15:10 * cognominal notes thhat iblech has a ipv6 address
15:11 iblech cognominal: Yes :) See http://tunnelbroker.as8758.net/
15:12 iblech BTW, it'd be great if I could connect() to IPv6 hosts *hint* :)
15:12 iblech (Actually, POE::Component::IRC has the same problem last I checked, therefore iblechbot is still IRCing over IPv4.)
15:13 autrijus stevan: so, module tests all work now?
15:15 kungfuftr iblech: you need an IPv6 server to connect to?
15:16 iblech kungfuftr: First, I need a tunnel broker, which gives me an IPv6 address. Then I can connect to the IPv6net :)
15:16 kungfuftr iblech: ah, you need a tunnel... you in the UK?
15:16 iblech kungfuftr: No, Germany. My tunnel broker is http://tunnelbroker.as8758.net/.
15:16 ingy hola
15:17 ingy gugod++
15:17 stevan autrijus: yes I think so
15:17 ingy gugod++
15:17 ingy gugod++
15:17 autrijus cool... rolling preflight #2
15:17 iblech autrijus: Just checked, yes, all ext/* pass
15:17 autrijus iblech++ stevan++
15:17 kungfuftr iblech: i have native ipv6 from here: http://ipv6.glbx.net/
15:18 broquaint has joined #perl6
15:18 jiing__ has joined #perl6
15:18 kungfuftr iblech: ah, they blocking 6667?
15:18 iblech kungfuftr: Native!
15:19 autrijus changes topic to: Preflight #2: http://pugscode.org/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.3-pre2.tar.gz | pugscode.org <Overview Journal Logs> | pugs.kwiki.org
15:19 iblech kungfuftr: Yes, but not 7000, which Freenode's IRC server listen on, too :)
15:19 kungfuftr iblech: yup, native
15:22 autrijus in that preflight, var.t will fail, that's expected
15:22 autrijus already fixed in trunk
15:23 autrijus will still release if that's the only failure seen
15:23 autrijus (instead of pre3, that is)
15:25 putter has joined #perl6
15:26 iblech autrijus: t/magicals/env.t fails 7, 10, 11 here (Linux)
15:27 putter re pre2, SIGNATURE?
15:27 putter find . |xargs grep SIGNA
15:27 putter ./README:    cpansign -v         # optional; see SIGNATURE for details
15:27 putter .
15:27 iblech Oh and BTW, do you know that interactive Pugs forgets class declarations?
15:27 autrijus putter: oh. it's unsigned. will fix in final
15:27 putter k
15:28 autrijus iblech: no, I don't. aww.
15:28 iblech It does work when the class declaration and the use of the class is on the same line, e.g. 'class A {} my $a = A.new'
15:28 autrijus iblech: hm, failing 7 means you don't have ./pugs
15:28 autrijus usually
15:28 jiing__ has quit IRC ("Computer goes to sleep!")
15:28 autrijus can you investigate?
15:29 saorge_ has joined #perl6
15:29 iblech will do
15:30 Shachaf has joined #perl6
15:30 cognominal iblech: getting an ipv6 address was painless
15:31 * kungfuftr will see about offering tunneling
15:34 iblech autrijus: env.t fixed as r3096 (the vars SHLVL and _ were set by bash, and they didn't compare to the env expected, so those two tests failed)
15:34 iblech But the %*ENV.exists("...") bug is still there
15:34 autrijus hm, it always returns true?
15:35 iblech yes
15:36 autrijus attempted another fix.
15:36 autrijus r3097
15:38 iblech Still doesn't work. If it helps you, defined %*ENV<does_not_exist> works (i.e., returns false)
15:39 autrijus hm. did you touch src/Pugs/AST/Internals.hs and rebuild?
15:39 iblech No, will do.
15:39 autrijus please do. :)
15:39 Forth_ I've svk sync so~ many times today...
15:39 Forth_ is now known as Forth
15:39 iblech Still doesn't work. :(
15:40 iblech No, wait a sec
15:40 iblech works! :)
15:40 iblech autrijus++
15:40 autrijus good. :)
15:40 autrijus anyone else running a test on preflight #2?
15:40 putter yes.
15:41 autrijus cool. win32?
15:41 autrijus probably need a win32 confirmation before flying
15:41 stevan autrijus: the class in the interactive shell issue iblech is talking about
15:41 stevan it also shows up with use My::Class;
15:41 putter sorry.  FedoraCore3 x86_64.
15:41 autrijus ah. that's cool too. :)
15:41 autrijus stevan: yeah, I noticed
15:41 stevan ok
15:41 stevan cool
15:42 stevan where is the link for preflight #2 BTW
15:42 iblech http://pugscode.org/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.3-pre2.tar.gz
15:42 stevan nvermind found it
15:42 stevan thanks iblech :)
15:42 Shillo has quit IRC ("Leaving")
15:43 autrijus I think envClasses needs to be a TVar to avoid this kind of problem
15:43 autrijus basically the env changed by use"" won't propagate back to the caller unless it's a TVar
15:43 autrijus (because it'd be lexical otherwise)
15:44 autrijus but it's not for 6.2.3 :)
15:44 iblech autrijus: Found another env bug: Deleting an env var does not propagate to subprocesses (but setting does)
15:45 autrijus what about setting it to '' ?
15:45 Forth Is there a way to specify the output encoding writing to file or stdout?
15:45 iblech autrijus: Forget, it does work perfectly fine :)
15:45 autrijus iblech: eh. :)
15:46 autrijus Forth: no... we don't yet have encoding support
15:46 CamelPeak has joined #perl6
15:46 autrijus suggestions welcome
15:46 autrijus we can link against *gasp* ICU
15:46 autrijus or iconv.
15:46 CamelPeak has left
15:49 ninereasons has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:49 iblech Ok, 4927 ok, 0 failed, 708 todo, 13 skipped and 0 unexpectedly succeeded on Linux
15:52 autrijus cool. I'm booting to win32 to test.
15:52 Forth i am running test but not pre2.....
15:53 autrijus Forth: on win32?
15:53 Forth yes
15:53 autrijus oh. cool
15:53 autrijus then I won't need to
15:57 * putter imagines everyone doing "make unoptimized" to save time, and simple "make" not being tested...
15:58 Juerd I use optimized make more often than unoptimized make.
15:58 Juerd Most of the time, I am in no hurry
15:58 wilx has joined #perl6
15:58 Juerd 2;0 juerd@sxark:~/project/pugs$ ./pugs -BParrot examples/matrix.p6
15:58 Juerd pugs: Cannot compile: Syn "{}" [Var "%had",Pos (MkPos "examples/matrix.p6" 26 10 26 17) (App (Var "&infix:~") [Var "$y",App (Var "&infix:~") [Val (VStr "/"),App (Var "&infix:~") [Var "$x",Val (VStr "")] []] []] [])]
15:58 Juerd What does that mean?
15:59 putter pre2 results (FC3 amd64, unoptimized, external parrot):
15:59 putter Failed 3/253 test scripts, 98.81% okay. 5/4921 subtests failed, 99.90% okay.
15:59 putter t/magicals/env.t                      11    2  18.18%  7 10
15:59 Corion has joined #perl6
15:59 Juerd And the other 3?
15:59 Corion I'm compiling the latest svn snapshot on Win32
15:59 putter t/unspecced/eval_yaml.t  254 65024     2    4 200.00%  1-2
15:59 putter t/var/var.t                            5    1  20.00%  2
15:59 Corion (Justin Case)
15:59 Juerd Hm
15:59 putter eval_yaml failure is a ghc amd64 bug.
15:59 Juerd Corion: There are a lot of justins here
16:00 Corion Juerd: :)
16:00 Juerd Corion: Time and Case are the most mentioned
16:01 Forth oh no~ I forget I don't have parrot install at home
16:01 osfameron hmmm, I see r3098 in scrollback
16:01 osfameron but http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/  is at 3005 ?
16:02 ninereasons has joined #perl6
16:02 osfameron aha, that's a mirror
16:02 iblech osfameron: svn.perl.org is mirrored from the real repository http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs
16:02 osfameron ta
16:04 Forth Failed 2/253 test scripts, 99.21% okay. 9/4921 subtests failed, 99.82% okay.
16:04 Forth from the latest svn
16:04 justatheory has joined #perl6
16:04 Corion unlink.t fails with 2 fails (as expected, but should be :todo for Win32
16:06 ninereasons you could add ':todo<Win32>' to those tests, Corion :)
16:06 autrijus Corion: ok, please skip them for win32
16:06 Limbic_Region Corion - is that even after it has been closed
16:06 Forth and the last line is NMAKE : fatal error U1077: 'C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe' : return code '0xff' Stop.
16:06 autrijus putter: how does t/unspecced/eval_yaml.t fail?
16:06 Limbic_Region ?
16:07 putter internal error: adjustor creation not supported on this platform
16:07 Corion Will fix unlink.t for Win32
16:07 putter allegedly (fully or partially fixed) in current cvs-ghc... which doesn't build for me at the moment.
16:08 putter (or didn't build for me yesterday... trying again)
16:08 osfameron oooo, pugs is building r3098...
16:09 autrijus putter: ok... I'm going to let it fail for x8664
16:10 putter k
16:12 Corion Committed unlink.t fix (r3100)
16:12 Corion resmoking
16:13 autrijus I guess pre3 is warranted after all ;)
16:13 Corion Gah. I was too eager... My fix put too much on :todo :(
16:14 * autrijus waits for Corion's fix fix
16:14 Corion r3101
16:14 Corion Oh. And undef.t dies, according to http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html ...
16:15 Corion but other than that, we're ready to fly :)
16:15 autrijus Corion: you don't have parrot in path, right :)
16:15 Corion Is anybody "fixing" undef.t ?
16:15 Corion autrijus: Nope, no parrot here.
16:15 autrijus ok. I'm "fixing" it now
16:19 ninereasons that's a tidy way to handle it, Corion++ # todo => $win32
16:19 Forth pugscc won't create .exe anymore?
16:20 autrijus Forth: I thought it would. what's the error msg? did you "nmake install" first?
16:20 knewt has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:20 Corion I never do "nmake install"
16:20 stevan autrijus: I got 4 errors
16:20 stevan t/builtins/undef.t            1   256    66   14  21.21%  60-66
16:20 stevan t/magicals/env.t                         11    2  18.18%  7 10
16:20 stevan t/unspecced/eval_haskell.t                4    1  25.00%  2
16:20 stevan t/var/var.t                               5    1  20.00%  2
16:20 Corion (at least not with Pugs)
16:21 Corion stevan: You don't have Parrot? :)
16:21 iblech autrijus: FYI, on Linux, pugscc only works with --parrot, not with --pugs and --haskell
16:21 stevan rather, 11 errors, in 4 tests
16:21 autrijus stevan: how does t/unspecced/eval_haskell.t fail?
16:21 stevan Corion: I never managed to get it to work
16:21 stevan autrijus: looking
16:21 Corion stevan: That accounts for t/builtins/undef.t :)
16:21 stevan failed test 2
16:21 stevan eval_haskell.t that is
16:22 autrijus stevan: you have an old version of hs-plugins perhaps.
16:22 stevan autrijus: quite likely
16:22 knewt has joined #perl6
16:22 chady has joined #perl6
16:22 stevan Corion: yes, undef.t (something about not finding parrot)
16:23 autrijus undef.t shoudl be fixed
16:23 autrijus please test.
16:23 stevan ok
16:24 autrijus iblech: try pugscc again
16:24 autrijus Forth: svn up and try pugscc again?
16:24 iblech autrijus: --runpugs and --runparrot work now :), --runhaskell not
16:25 Forth autrijus: sure, building now
16:25 Odin-LAP has joined #perl6
16:27 autrijus stevan: so I'll let old hs-plugins fail for this release... you can update to something around or after 20050417 too
16:27 stevan ok
16:29 autrijus iblech: try r3105
16:29 autrijus $ perl script/pugscc --runhaskell -e 'say 1'
16:29 autrijus 1
16:29 autrijus how's undef.t for parrotless folks?
16:30 iblech autrijus: All --run[parrot|pugs|haskell] work now :)
16:30 autrijus good.
16:31 Corion autrijus: good
16:31 autrijus pre3!
16:31 Corion autrijus: Does not crash anymore and fails one (TODO) test
16:31 autrijus changes topic to: Final check: http://pugscode.org/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.3-pre3.tar.gz | pugscode.org <Overview Journal Logs> | pugs.kwiki.org
16:31 autrijus Corion: that's good to hear
16:32 autrijus final call before boarding :)
16:32 * Corion starts a (final|full) smoke from svn
16:32 * autrijus starts writing release announcement
16:33 autrijus # http://pugscode.org/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.3-pre3.tar.gz
16:33 pmichaud has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]")
16:38 Juerd 2;1 juerd@sxark:~/project/pugs$ ./pugs -BParrot examples/matrix.p6
16:38 Juerd pugs: Cannot compile: Syn "{}" [Var "%had",Pos (MkPos "examples/matrix.p6" 26 10 26 17) (App (Var "&infix:~") [Var "$y",App (Var "&infix:~") [Val (VStr "/"),App (Var "&infix:~") [Var "$x",Val (VStr "")] []] []] [])]
16:38 Juerd What does it mean?
16:38 elmex has joined #perl6
16:38 autrijus Juerd: that means that parrot codegen doesn't do PerlHash.
16:38 Juerd Oh
16:38 Juerd That's unfortunate
16:38 autrijus Juerd: really, please wait until after APW :)
16:38 Juerd What's APW?
16:38 autrijus the parrot codegen will get rewritten during my stay with Leo
16:39 Juerd I see - when is that?
16:39 autrijus and hopefully unified with the Eval monad
16:39 autrijus that's ~1month from now
16:39 Juerd ok
16:39 Juerd Are there other ways of speeding up execution?
16:39 autrijus will try to cram stuff into parrot 0.2.1 to support things
16:39 ajs A *month* ... in pugs time, that's like 10 years!!! ;-)
16:39 autrijus Juerd: make things optimised...
16:39 Juerd It segfaults after a while, when trying to match the rule
16:39 Juerd autrijus: Doing so already
16:40 Juerd I'd add a test for the segfault, but it takes way too long for that :)
16:41 autrijus Juerd: I have this feeling that you're looking at a PGE problem :)
16:41 chady has quit IRC ("leaving")
16:42 autrijus Juerd: send the rule to p6c to pmichaud?
16:42 Juerd It might very well be
16:42 Juerd It's hard to send it as e-mail
16:42 Juerd Because it exceeds the line length, and mailing lists don't accept attachments
16:42 autrijus why? just .gz it
16:42 Juerd No attachments.
16:42 autrijus oh. then send a url
16:42 Juerd That's a good idea
16:42 * autrijus praises the technology known as URL
16:43 autrijus so, pre3 all clean here
16:43 autrijus how's it going for others?
16:44 stevan undef.t is good for me
16:45 _metaperl hangman.p6 had a syntax error in it...
16:45 Juerd done
16:45 _metaperl I found out during my presentation last night :)
16:45 autrijus _metaperl: huh? it worksforme :)
16:45 _metaperl ok I will try again... maybe its my pre-ghc6.4 pugs
16:47 Forth the result of test http://irc.csie.org:8888/115
16:47 autrijus Forth: what version is this?
16:48 Forth r3106
16:48 autrijus really.
16:48 autrijus run t\entities.t by hand and see what are the errors?
16:48 _metaperl anyone want to help guess the p6-authors name? sorry to interrupt
16:49 autrijus _metaperl: uh. what?
16:49 Juerd _metaperl: If you want people to cooperatively play the game, just make it an irc bot.
16:49 _metaperl wild idea Juerd
16:49 Corion r3105 is go on Win32 btw
16:50 autrijus Forth: I suspect you are running against an old copy
16:50 Corion Hmmm. What is the easy way to get Parrot/Win32 ?
16:50 autrijus Corion: read README
16:50 Corion Oh.
16:50 _metaperl here are my guesses so far: http://pastebot.nd.edu/802
16:51 autrijus _metaperl: botify it :)
16:51 _metaperl is that easy? it sounds involved
16:51 Forth autrijus: http://irc.csie.org:8888/116
16:52 Forth is that my environment's problem?
16:53 autrijus Forth: I remember that stevan fixed that a while ago
16:53 autrijus unless I'm terribly mistaken
16:54 stevan autrijus: that was Ovid's module actually,... I never touched it
16:54 autrijus Forth: I have no idea why it fails for you...
16:54 autrijus oh ok.
16:54 iblech HTML::Entities's tests work fine here (as do all the other ext/* tests)
16:55 Forth i have no idea, too. it's a clean build
16:55 autrijus ok. I'll investigate
16:55 Forth i should try it again first :)
16:55 autrijus no, duplicated here.
16:56 stevan I would offer to help, but I really need to pay attention to $work  :)
16:56 stevan sorry
16:57 autrijus that's fine :)
16:57 Forth previous test is ok on that
16:58 Juerd work always gets in the way of productivity
16:58 Juerd It's an universal rule of open source
17:03 autrijus fixed.
17:03 autrijus committing
17:03 autrijus Forth++
17:04 stevan Juerd: $work is open source (to a certain degree)
17:04 stevan just not /all/ of it
17:04 Juerd Cool
17:06 putter my test run looked good.
17:06 autrijus Forth: please retest HTML::Entities
17:06 autrijus r3110
17:06 autrijus if it works for you, I'm ready to fly
17:08 Forth go fly :)
17:08 Forth http://irc.csie.org:8888/117
17:11 autrijus ok. :)
17:12 Juerd Yay
17:12 Limbic_Region . o O ( fly like an eagle )
17:12 autrijus 6.2.3 is airborne! | pugscode.org <Overview Journal Logs> | pugs.kwiki.org
17:12 Limbic_Region . o O ( leaving in on a jet plane - ain't coming back to this rev level again )
17:13 autrijus http://pugscode.org/dist/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.3.tar.gz
17:14 autrijus enjoy! :)
17:14 * autrijus cheers
17:14 autrijus release announcements etc will be up shortly
17:14 autrijus bbiab.
17:14 putter woo hoo!
17:14 autrijus changes topic to: 6.2.3 is airborne! | pugscode.org <Overview Journal Logs> | pugs.kwiki.org
17:15 putter hey everybody -- just awesome. ;)
17:15 osfameron has quit IRC ("Leaving")
17:15 cjn has joined #perl6
17:18 stevan whoa.. flying Pugs,.. watch out below :P
17:18 _metaperl first there was Air Jordan. And now... Air Pugs
17:19 _metaperl winning slam dunk contests everywhere
17:20 wilx :)
17:20 nnunley has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
17:22 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:22 Corion has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:24 stevan Money it's gotta be the Haskell!
17:25 _metaperl Forget Sleepy Floyd... forget Sleepy-eyed Tracy mcGrady... it's Lazy Evaluation's time to shine
17:28 boogie Somebody can tell me, how can I test rules with Pugs? It seems, that everybody can test it, but me. :) I have the latest Pugs and the latest Parrot, and got error if I run an easy regexp test...
17:28 autrijus boogie: what's the error?
17:29 boogie pugs: user error (*** Running external 'parrot' failed:
17:29 boogie error:imcc:op not found 'concat' (concat<2>)
17:29 autrijus latest parrot?
17:29 autrijus 0.2.0-release?
17:29 boogie trunk
17:29 autrijus is the parrot in your path also trunk?
17:30 boogie yes, both parrot and pugs is the latest svn version.
17:31 kolibrie boogie: does 'which parrot' point to the right one?
17:31 _metaperl perl5 to perl6 question
17:31 _metaperl my ($width,$height) = split(/x/, $banner->{size});
17:31 _metaperl  $xpad = defined($xpad) ? $xpad : 40 ;
17:31 autrijus boogie: cd into src/pge
17:31 _metaperl I could write this as $xpad //= 40 ;
17:31 autrijus in pugs tree
17:31 autrijus run this
17:31 autrijus $ parrot run_pge.pir  123 123
17:31 autrijus PGE_Match 0 3 [] []
17:32 autrijus _metaperl: that's right
17:32 _metaperl wonderful
17:32 autrijus boogie: I'm pretty sure both parrot trunk and 0.2.0 works with our bundled pge
17:32 boogie kolibrie: that's the problem...
17:33 ingy _metaperl: freepan  accout set up
17:33 ingy http://tpe.freepan.org/repos/metaperl/
17:34 ingy please testit
17:34 boogie Thanks for your help... ;)
17:34 kolibrie boogie: :)
17:35 autrijus :)
17:35 autrijus but if you want to use rules in real programs, I'd recommend embedded parrot
17:35 autrijus spawning a process for each rule match could be slow
17:36 boogie autrijus: I've tried that too, but I got error when compiled it.
17:37 boogie autrijus: I give it a try again, maybe it will work. The environment variables were right, but who knows.
17:37 autrijus I'd be grateful if you can show me the error msg.
17:38 boogie OK, I've started compiling it.
17:38 kolibrie autrijus++ # helping everyone with debugging
17:39 autrijus everyone++ # helping me with debugging
17:39 kolibrie :)
17:40 autrijus I still remember the early 6.0.x days... without TAP matrix, automatic smoke runs, or a channel full of lambdacamels...
17:40 autrijus it's a miracle that I managed to get anything at all done back then ;)
17:41 kolibrie ah, pioneering
17:42 autrijus "madness" is more like it
17:42 kolibrie I didn't say that
17:42 autrijus :)
17:43 * boogie thinks, that Compiling Pugs.AST.Internals takes long time. :)
17:43 wilx So...are there any Perl6 tutorials yet?
17:43 wilx It seems the time it starts to be worth learing has come.
17:43 _metaperl 3 talks: metaperl.com/talks/p6
17:43 autrijus there's a examples/tutorial_gen/
17:43 boogie wilx: read the tests, and check the doc dir
17:44 autrijus also the very-old-but-still-somewhat-useful exegeses
17:45 autrijus boogie: "make unoptimised" will make it fast(er)
17:45 autrijus but yeah, more refactor-into-small-chunks is needed on that
17:45 autrijus or we can rename it to Pugs.AST.TakesReallyLongToCompilePleaseBePat​ientOrAbortNowAndMakeOptimisedByHittingCtrlC
17:46 boogie it's the same with Pugs.Parser. :) But I want to get an optimized and fast version for my CGI experiments. :)
17:46 autrijus ahh :)
17:49 * boogie got error message
17:49 pmichaud has joined #perl6
17:49 boogie Linking ...
17:49 boogie /usr/local/lib/ghc-6.4/libgmp.a(set_str.o): In function `digit_value_in_base':
17:49 boogie /playpen/ghc/nightly/STABLE-cam-02-unx/i386-​unknown-linux/ghc/rts/gmp/mpz/set_str.c:44: undefined reference to `__ctype_b_loc'
17:49 boogie /usr/local/lib/ghc-6.4/libgmp.a(set_str.o): In function `__gmpz_set_str':
17:49 boogie /playpen/ghc/nightly/STABLE-cam-02-unx/i386-​unknown-linux/ghc/rts/gmp/mpz/set_str.c:77: undefined reference to `__ctype_b_loc'
17:49 boogie /playpen/ghc/nightly/STABLE-cam-02-unx/i386-​unknown-linux/ghc/rts/gmp/mpz/set_str.c:149: undefined reference to `__ctype_b_loc'
17:50 boogie collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
17:50 boogie make: *** [pugs] Error 1
17:50 autrijus mm ghc nightly?
17:50 wilx Hmm, examples/sendmoremoney.p6, in the =kwid section, the second one line paragraph ends in half of the sentence.
17:51 wilx -- The `exhaustive' solution...etc.
17:52 boogie autrijus: I don't remember, but it's possible. Should I try the latest nightly build?
17:52 autrijus boogie: no, it looks like something weird with ctype.h. hm.
17:52 autrijus it's possible that ghc was built with a different ctype than parrot.
17:53 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
17:53 boogie ctype belongs to gcc?
17:53 autrijus I think so
17:54 pmichaud ummm, I think ctype probably belongs to glibc
17:54 autrijus oh well. at least fork is fast on linux :)
17:54 autrijus ah. that's right.
17:54 autrijus __ctype_b_loc, specifically.
17:54 boogie then I try to recompile GHC now.
17:54 pmichaud and I noticed that glibc doesn't match the C Standard Library as far as ctype goes
17:54 Limbic_Region autrijus - when I fork I like it to last a while
17:54 pmichaud at least, it doesn't match the version in the Plauger book
17:54 autrijus pmichaud: I've never had the occasion to deal  with glibc
17:54 boogie I mean glibc, too. :) I never knew these C libs. ;)
17:55 autrijus so all knowledge of it is purely hearsay
17:55 autrijus s/all/all my/
17:59 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Look ma, no script!")
18:01 DapperDan has joined #perl6
18:02 Corion has joined #perl6
18:07 * iblech compiles Pugs 6.2.3 live cd...
18:08 Limbic_Region iblech - how do I play?
18:08 iblech ?game starts a new game, ?guess char guesses, ?show shows the name again (covered, of course)
18:09 _metaperl wow
18:09 _metaperl ?game
18:09 autrijus oh. wow. hangman bot.
18:09 Limbic_Region has it joined the channel?
18:09 iblech _metaperl: You first have to start the bot ;)
18:09 Limbic_Region and if not - why not?
18:09 iblech okok I start it ^^
18:10 autrijus iblech++ # madness
18:10 iblech thanks :)
18:10 * boogie agree with autrijus :)
18:10 iblech my Pugs is still compiling (optimized this time, for the live cd)...
18:11 DapperDan has quit IRC ()
18:12 ChanServ sets mode: +o autrijus
18:12 hangbot6 has joined #perl6
18:13 autrijus sets mode: -o autrijus
18:13 iblech :)
18:13 Corion We got ops? Yay! That means we can kick people! :)
18:13 Corion Bah. :(
18:13 iblech ?game
18:13 Limbic_Region ?game
18:13 iblech ?guess i
18:13 Limbic_Region heh
18:13 autrijus eh.
18:13 _metaperl ?guess e
18:13 wilx ?guess a
18:13 Limbic_Region ?guess m
18:13 _metaperl ?guess r
18:13 wilx ?guess u
18:13 Limbic_Region ?guess t
18:13 wilx ?guess Y
18:13 Limbic_Region ?guess s
18:13 _metaperl ?guess p
18:13 wilx ?guess w
18:13 Limbic_Region ?guess o
18:13 wilx :))
18:13 autrijus fun!
18:13 iblech :)
18:13 Corion THE MACHINE WINS! YES! :)
18:13 Odin- Hm.
18:14 autrijus ?game
18:14 Limbic_Region wow
18:14 _metaperl ?guess e
18:14 Corion iblech: The bot should gloat a bit more :)
18:14 Odin- Those don't appear as channel messages.
18:14 Limbic_Region ?guess t
18:14 _metaperl ?guess p
18:14 autrijus ?guess o
18:14 _metaperl ?guess a
18:14 Limbic_Region ?guess a
18:14 autrijus ?guess y
18:14 _metaperl ?guess b
18:14 iblech Odin-: They're NOTICEs, as the IRC RFCs mandate
18:14 autrijus ?guess s
18:14 _metaperl ?guess n
18:14 Limbic_Region ?guess m
18:14 Odin- iblech: Mandate?
18:14 autrijus lol
18:14 Limbic_Region ok - this is going to wreak hell on the irc logger coherency
18:15 iblech Corion: Feel free to fix this, /me lacks the vocab
18:15 Corion Maybe somebody should start #perl6_games :)
18:15 boogie Corion: :))
18:15 * autrijus aborts the bot :)
18:15 iblech Odin-: ...as the IRC RFCs recommend bot writers
18:15 hangbot6 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
18:15 autrijus iblech++ # lots and lots of fun
18:15 Odin- iblech: Interesting.
18:15 Corion This is so the bots don't get caught up in a feedback loop
18:15 Odin- iblech: And annoying. ;)
18:16 Limbic_Region iblech  
18:16 Limbic_Region grr - iblech plus plus even
18:16 iblech Odin-: Yes... Somebody posted an URL to a page describing the necessary steps to let those NOTICEs get displayed nicer
18:16 putter no svn commit notes in irc log :( :(
18:17 autrijus wow. icfp'05 contest is the same day as yapc::na
18:17 autrijus must... let... Perl 6 win icfp'05
18:18 iblech putter: True. And the beep of the NOTICEs woke wilx up today ;)
18:18 autrijus # http://icfpc.plt-scheme.org/
18:18 wilx Hehe.
18:18 wilx Yeah.
18:18 wilx I usually turn off speakers but I forgot last night :)
18:18 Odin-LAP Much fun, then?
18:19 putter ;)
18:19 iblech Ok, then I convert the NOTICEs to PRIVMSGs
18:19 wilx :/
18:19 wilx No good either.
18:19 Odin-LAP Normal messages are PRIVMSG...
18:20 iblech ?quit Shutting svnbot6 down for a minute (convert to PRIVMSGs)
18:20 svnbot6 has quit IRC ("Shutting svnbot6 down for a minute (convert to PRIVMSGs)")
18:21 svnbot6 has joined #perl6
18:25 * iblech is uploading the new live cd :)
18:26 svnbot6 r3113 (iblech) -- NOTICE -> PRIVMSG for svnbot.p6 and hangmanbot.p6.
18:27 Odin-LAP Hmm.
18:27 autrijus iblech: announce the live cd separately on p6c please :)
18:27 integral hmm, now irssi highlights this window for every commit :-(
18:27 Odin-LAP Noticeably better. :)
18:27 iblech autrijus: Ok :)
18:28 Limbic_Region ?game
18:28 Limbic_Region oh - did the bot go away?
18:28 Limbic_Region yep
18:28 autrijus Guess! _i_b_c_R_g_o
18:28 * Limbic_Region goes back to $work
18:32 eric256 has joined #perl6
18:33 svnbot6 r3114 (autrijus) -- * typo
18:33 eric256 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
18:33 Khisanth pugs livecd?
18:33 Khisanth PerlOS? :)
18:33 eric256 has joined #perl6
18:34 eric256 hello... could someone explain why the example uses my $y = =$*IN; ... i don't understand where the second = comes from.
18:35 stevan eric256: it is basically equivalent to readline
18:35 integral = is for reading from an iterator
18:35 stevan my $y = readline($*IN) is the same thing
18:35 eric256 ahhh. cool. thanks.
18:35 stevan :)
18:35 eric256 and so i begin to learn. ;)
18:35 autrijus :)
18:36 Limbic_Region advocacy at work
18:37 eric256 i love the new classes. that is probably the only thing that i'm totaly excited about so far.. hopefully more will come
18:37 autrijus I love the lack of @{${[]}} :)
18:37 eric256 do we still need to chomp input .... and is there an easy way to do that all i none step?
18:37 Limbic_Region meant to mention to you in the chatterbox - if you haven't already - install Perl6::Bible
18:38 Limbic_Region eric256 is chomped isn't implemented yet
18:38 Limbic_Region but there should be a way to autochomp - yes
18:38 Limbic_Region just as there is a way to auto-linefeed output
18:38 Limbic_Region say versus print
18:38 eric256 cool
18:38 Limbic_Region s/should be/will be/
18:39 eric256 chomp IS implemented
18:39 Limbic_Region right - just not autochomp
18:39 eric256 oh gotcha...whats the Perl6::Bible give me?
18:39 Limbic_Region but don't make the mistake of opening up your file as rw AND turning on autochomp (when it becomes available) unless you really know what that will do ;-)
18:40 Limbic_Region all the As Es and Ss
18:40 Limbic_Region at your fingertips
18:40 autrijus hm where is autochomp specced?
18:40 Limbic_Region autrijus - it isn't as far as I know
18:40 autrijus I see adverbial form of slurp :chomp in Perl6::Slurp
18:40 Limbic_Region it has been thrown around several times though
18:40 autrijus but nothing about autochomping
18:40 Odin-LAP Limbic_Region: And what would that do?
18:41 Odin-LAP You'd suppose it does 'chomp' automatically on each line fed in..?
18:41 Limbic_Region dunno
18:41 autrijus @lines = io("file").chomp.slurp;
18:41 autrijus (if we go with the IO::All api)
18:42 * autrijus likes the IO::All api, btw, except maybe for the overloading bit
18:43 Limbic_Region autrijus - great thing about Perl6::Bible is it makes grep'ing for something easy (though building it into p6bible would be nicer)
18:43 eric256 why not just $person.name = =$*IN.chomp; ??
18:43 Limbic_Region autrijus - for example, I have already found $*ARGS is chomped;
18:43 Limbic_Region so it must be in there somewhere - looking closer
18:44 autrijus eric256: well, you can use the perl5 idiom
18:44 autrijus class Person { has $.name }
18:44 autrijus my $me = Person.new;
18:44 autrijus ($me.name = =<>).chomp;
18:44 Limbic_Region looks like E02 autrijus
18:44 autrijus that works in pugs just fine
18:44 autrijus Limbic_Region: hmm E is nonnormative
18:45 autrijus (as it's not added with "Update" markers)
18:45 autrijus maybe it'd be fun to update it, though
18:45 autrijus based on current pugs/p6l understandings
18:45 autrijus that will make a good tutorial
18:46 eric256 any reason they didn't change chomp to return the chomped string like every sane person expects?
18:46 Limbic_Region autrijus - well, I know it has also been mentioned on p6.l the same way as the "Biting off less so you can chew" section of E02
18:46 Limbic_Region might just take a confirmation email to the list
18:46 autrijus sure.
18:47 Limbic_Region ok - will do
18:47 autrijus eric256: hm, maybe chomp should then be nonmutating
18:47 autrijus and you use
18:47 autrijus $foo .= chomp;
18:47 autrijus if you want destructive chomp
18:47 autrijus iirc it's been proposed by Juerd.
18:49 broquaint has quit IRC ("teh f00d")
18:50 autrijus eric256: so, send a patch/suggestion to Rod's S29
18:50 autrijus # http://www.rodadams.net/Perl/S29.html
18:50 autrijus "chomp" is not defined there, so just define it
18:50 autrijus and make it either only destructive under void context, or never destructive at all
18:51 autrijus eric256: send off to p6l and, see if it can be made into S29 -- once it is, I'd be happy to implement it in pugs and/or walk you thru on how to implement it
18:51 autrijus btw, you can patch against Pugs's docs/S29draft.pod
18:51 autrijus bbiab.
18:52 Limbic_Region message sent
18:52 * eric256 just knows it seems crazy as is.
18:53 eric256 am i getting myself invovled in yet another project that i don't have time for? although admitidly this is a much more interesting project than any before. ;)
18:54 Limbic_Region eric256 - I don't have any time for it either but you would be surprised how a lot of people contributing a little bit adds up
18:55 Limbic_Region besides - even if you don't get into the Haskell side of the house (I haven't) - you still get to learn p6
18:55 kolibrie and hang out with uber-cool folks
18:55 Limbic_Region imagine the XP you will get when everyone starts using it and you are able to answer questions faster and better than the p5 experts
18:55 eric256 very true. i looked into haskell a bit but i think i'll stick to learning p6
18:55 iblech has quit IRC ("school tomorrow, off &")
18:55 * Limbic_Region never thought he would resort to using XP as a marketing strategy
18:56 eric256 lol
18:57 eric256 okay. i stumbled on something.... say "hello" & "wow"; prints each on its own line... new magical meaning of &?
18:57 pmichaud & is a junction
18:58 eric256 hmmm. so it causes say to be called twice? once for each element in the junction?
18:58 pmichaud but it should probably generate a "cannot print junction" error and not print both
18:58 pmichaud at least, that's what Damian claims
18:58 * Limbic_Region feels that it shouldn't unless you ask it to
18:58 pmichaud but yes, a junction would be a scalar that holds multiple values and a relationship among them simultaneously
18:59 larsen has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:59 Limbic_Region IOW - provide for a short cut to for all( stuff ) { say }
18:59 Limbic_Region but don't make it just be say all( stuff )
18:59 Limbic_Region hmmm - I have convinced myself I don't like that idea
19:00 * Limbic_Region shuts up now and leaves the design to the experts
19:00 eric256 which idea? so is this a bug or feature at this point? lol
19:00 svnbot6 r3115 (iblech) -- Added Makefile.old to the svn:ignore of ext/Test-Builder.
19:00 eric256 or undefined as yet?
19:00 pmichaud I haven't fully followed the meaning of    for all ( stuff ) { say }    yet
19:00 integral reify { say reflect "hello & wow" } maybe
19:01 autrijus eric256: it's undefined.
19:01 eric256 hmm i. say("this" | "that") also prints both which doesn't seem right
19:01 pmichaud okay, just got for all(stuff) { ... } from S03
19:01 Limbic_Region pmichaud - I am kind of frustrated with the way junctions are currently spec'd so I don't know myself
19:02 pmichaud eric256:  are you specifically interested in junctions?  Or are you trying to test && and || ?
19:02 autrijus eric256: so, foo("this" | "that") actually means
19:02 autrijus foo("this") | foo("that")
19:02 pmichaud say(  "this" | "that" )    ==>   say  any("this", "that" )
19:02 autrijus so foo will be called twice no matter what juctive combinator you use
19:02 autrijus junctive, even
19:02 pmichaud as long as foo accepts junctive scalars
19:03 autrijus that's right.
19:03 eric256 autrijus: ohhh. pmichaud i just stumbled on the behavior by accident. i mean ~...don't ask how i hit the & lol
19:03 autrijus :D
19:03 pmichaud in particular, it doesn't do the autothreading if foo(...) accepts a list
19:04 autrijus hm? where is that said?
19:04 pmichaud S09
19:04 pmichaud "In any scalar context not expecting a junction of values, a junction produces automatic parallelization of the algorithm."
19:04 autrijus oh. you mean "accepts a list" as in "imposing a plural context"
19:04 * Limbic_Region still wants to be able to do all( any(@foo) eq any(@bar)) and have the result be all the matches and not a boolean true/false
19:04 pmichaud autrijus: right
19:04 autrijus that's right then
19:05 PerlJam pm: btw, did you implement & in PGE?
19:05 pmichaud pj: not yet
19:05 * eric256 has to goto lunch now before his head explodes or possibly implodes
19:05 pmichaud limbic:  so, define the special eq operator I discussed :-)
19:06 autrijus so will == be special as well?
19:06 autrijus ~~? =:=? curious minds wants to know! :)
19:06 pmichaud i.e., define an eq operator that returns the equivalent value instead of a boolean true/false, and you can get   any(@foo) myeq @bar  
19:07 Limbic_Region pmichaud - and as I said, I don't necessarily need to see it in the core but it should be readily available in a generic form as one of the first p6 modules
19:07 Limbic_Region I just don't have the appropriate fu yet
19:07 autrijus use Junc::Util;;
19:07 pmichaud Oh, I suspect it'll end up being    use Sets;  :-)
19:08 Limbic_Region either Sets or Junc::Util is fine by me
19:09 Limbic_Region grrr - real $work
19:09 * Limbic_Region wanders off
19:11 revdiablo ok, I really need to build parrot now.
19:12 integral it builds refreshingly faster than pugs ;-)
19:12 revdiablo I wonder if dh_make_perl can handle it nicely
19:12 revdiablo ... or at all
19:15 mj has joined #perl6
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19:16 Limbic_Region looks like volunteers for finishing S29 are being asked for autrijus
19:16 autrijus pmichaud: ping
19:16 Limbic_Region eric256 - perfect opportunity to plunge in head first
19:16 autrijus    if 'localhost:80' ~~ /^(.+)\:(.+)$/ {
19:16 autrijus        my $socket = connect($0, $1);
19:16 autrijus    }
19:16 autrijus pmichaud: assume that $1 is evaluated in Int context.
19:16 autrijus pmichaud: what does it evaluate to? 80? 0?
19:17 pmichaud 1
19:17 autrijus right, 1.
19:17 autrijus but hey, isn't that just killing one of the idioms?
19:17 pmichaud use $1
19:17 pmichaud er
19:17 pmichaud use ~$1
19:17 autrijus and why is it 1 when it has no submatches?
19:18 pmichaud a match object returns 1 if it successfully matched
19:18 revdiablo argh, dh-make-perl is looking for modules, not just any CPAN distribution
19:18 autrijus should it not be 0 (as in, no submatches)
19:18 autrijus er, I thought the numeric context stands for number of submatches
19:18 pmichaud no, I think it's going to be the number of successful matches
19:18 autrijus or is that for quantified capture only?
19:18 autrijus ah ok.
19:18 autrijus so if (xx)+ matches 3 times
19:18 pmichaud it's always 1,  unless :g is specified in which case it may increase
19:18 autrijus $0 would numifiy to 3?
19:19 pmichaud nope
19:19 autrijus still 1?
19:19 pmichaud as far as I know -- that's what Damian's post says
19:19 pmichaud to get 3 one would typically use @{$0}
19:19 pmichaud or maybe +@{$0}
19:20 autrijus ok
19:20 * pmichaud notes that he didn't write the spec (or have much hand in it) -- he just implements it
19:20 Alatar has joined #perl6
19:21 pmichaud hmmm, how do I explain the difference to Aaron (on p6l)?
19:22 BigBear has joined #perl6
19:23 autrijus ooh S29 pumpking wanted on p6l
19:23 autrijus pmichaud: thanks for the explanation -- so my understanding was right -- but I think that's very inconvenient
19:24 autrijus sent to p6l for further deliberation
19:24 pmichaud it may indeed be inconvenient, I don't know that anyone had come across that particular issue yet
19:24 autrijus it broke quite a few of our tests :)
19:24 elmex p6 tends to become inconventient in not so few places
19:25 autrijus elmex: hm?
19:25 pmichaud it may be that we decide that match objects in numeric context become the numified version of the string value
19:25 autrijus that would be nice.
19:25 pmichaud that's probably more important and useful than having it be the number of successful matches
19:25 pmichaud which we can always get via a method on the match object
19:25 autrijus yeah.
19:25 autrijus yup.
19:25 autrijus .matches, that is.
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19:26 Limbic_Region autrijus - [15:16] <Limbic_Region> looks like volunteers for finishing S29 are being asked for autrijus
19:26 autrijus oh. didn't see that :)
19:26 Limbic_Region I followed it up with
19:27 Limbic_Region [15:16] <Limbic_Region> eric256 - perfect opportunity to plunge in head first
19:27 autrijus right!
19:27 Limbic_Region I didn't get a reply though
19:27 * Limbic_Region might have scared him
19:27 * autrijus hopes not
19:30 PerlJam autrijus: did you see larry's reply regarding  split /(..)*/, 1234567890   ?
19:30 autrijus PerlJam: yes, implemented as such.
19:30 autrijus committing
19:30 PerlJam magic!
19:30 autrijus tests welcome
19:30 PerlJam will do
19:30 zuulvin_ has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
19:32 autrijus pmichaud:
19:32 svnbot6 r3116 (ninereasons) -- skip a segfaulting test
19:32 PerlJam Hrm.  Is the first arg to split always a RE in perl6?
19:32 Limbic_Region PerlJam - unless it is something else ;P
19:32 autrijus hm, nvm, it's my fault :)
19:32 pmichaud autrijus: glad to help :)
19:32 autrijus :D
19:33 autrijus I forgot that (..)* always matches.
19:34 PerlJam Limbic_Region: in perl5, it's always a regular expression even if you do  split "foo+bar",$string  (i.e. that + is a quantifier not a literal +)
19:34 PerlJam Is perl6 the same?
19:34 elmex why does (..)* always match?
19:34 PerlJam elmex: * means zero or more
19:34 PerlJam elmex: you can always match zero times
19:35 elmex PerlJam: hm....
19:35 elmex k
19:39 autrijus anyone have parrot 0.2.0-release installed?
19:39 svnbot6 r3117 (bsmith) -- Added export lists to Pugs.AST.Internals, Pugs.Eval and Pugs.Lexer.
19:39 Limbic_Region PerlJam - I was being silly^h^h^h^h^hunhelpful
19:40 integral hmm, pugs uses the same AST structure to compile and run the code?   I mean there's always Pads with VRefs attached, even at just compile time?
19:40 autrijus integral: yes.
19:41 autrijus the notion of "compile time" in perl is weird
19:41 mj has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:41 autrijus the compiler itself is a perl runtime
19:41 integral hmm, it's awkward
19:41 autrijus it is.
19:41 autrijus it's also fun.
19:41 integral it looks like it's the main reason AST.Internals is so big too
19:41 autrijus it's like how TH2 let you run IO in the Q stage.
19:42 integral hmm
19:42 autrijus it's the same idea
19:42 integral But then when the Q bit has run, you're just left with a static AST
19:42 autrijus that is right
19:42 autrijus the static AST is then fed to codegen
19:42 integral that's the bit that perl doesn't have then?
19:43 autrijus perl5 by default doesn't do that
19:43 autrijus it just walks the tree in memory, like pugs does
19:43 autrijus but perl6 will codegen to PIR
19:43 autrijus by default
19:43 integral hmm, another idea: the IVar uses these ScalarClass things,   maybe something similar for Var(?) ?
19:44 autrijus hm?
19:44 integral and in walking the tree it hangs pads etc off the same tree, rather than another?
19:45 autrijus where is this "another"?
19:45 svnbot6 r3118 (autrijus) -- * sync pge
19:45 svnbot6 r3119 (autrijus) -- * split// now attaches the submatches themselves to the
19:45 svnbot6 r3119 (autrijus) --   resulting list.
19:45 autrijus the compiler and runtime shares the same tree that is envExp
19:45 autrijus the parser too
19:45 integral ok,  but do they have to?
19:46 autrijus not sure what the gain would be if they don't
19:46 autrijus but I think theoretically yes
19:46 integral well it means that the Exp tree wouldn't contain Pads, surely?
19:47 integral hmm,
19:47 autrijus you still need the Pad to close the closures over, no?
19:47 integral but you don't have closures until you run code...
19:47 autrijus ...which is what the compiler has to do
19:47 autrijus consider:
19:48 autrijus my $x; BEGIN { $x = 3 }; say $x
19:48 autrijus here the BEGIN{} happens at parsetime
19:48 autrijus even before say is parsed
19:48 integral hrm, I see now
19:48 autrijus we're dealing with a clearly insane language :)
19:48 pmichaud created by clearly insane people.  Nice, that.
19:48 pmichaud :)
19:48 autrijus :)
19:48 integral hmm, but when it comes to separate compilation the value of $x is going to be serialised anyway
19:48 autrijus sure
19:49 autrijus so that's why I say you can use two Exp
19:49 autrijus but the first one (the compile time one)
19:49 autrijus still needs its own pads
19:49 autrijus and all
19:49 Odin-LAP autrijus, pmichaud: Any non-perler could've told you that several years ago.
19:49 autrijus it needs to be a full environment
19:49 Odin-LAP (re: sanity)
19:49 autrijus that's right.
19:49 integral hang on, what does: sub foo { my $x; BEGIN { $x = 3 }; say $x } do?
19:50 autrijus it's the same as
19:50 autrijus sub foo { my $x ::= 3; say $x }
19:50 autrijus er, no
19:50 autrijus it's not the same
19:50 * Limbic_Region throws in a state() or two just to make it crazier
19:50 autrijus what it does is that it creates a Pad for foo with $x in it
19:50 autrijus that pad has a value of 3 on entry
19:50 integral at the moment sub foo { my $x; BEGIN { $x = 3 }; say $x } foo; foo; foo; prints "3\n\n\n"
19:51 _metaperl Limbic_Region, what is state()?
19:51 autrijus fortunately, this we can check with p5.
19:51 Limbic_Region like static in C
19:51 Limbic_Region only gets initialized once
19:51 autrijus $ perl -le 'sub foo { my $x; BEGIN { $x = 3 }; print $x } foo; foo; foo;'
19:51 autrijus 3
19:51 autrijus \n\n\n
19:51 autrijus same behaviour.
19:51 Limbic_Region let me see if I can find the exmple
19:51 autrijus i.e. the pad with 3 on entry is scratched on reentrance.
19:51 integral personally I say this is weird.   It creates a new pad the other two times, but not the first
19:51 autrijus to not scratch it, you use state()
19:52 kolibrie _metaperl: like my(), except that it is still there the next time the block is entered
19:52 Limbic_Region _metaperl - see http://svn.openfoundry.org​/pugs/examples/cashiers.p6
19:52 autrijus integral: line 287 in Eval does that.
19:52 autrijus the reduction rule for
19:52 autrijus reduce (Pad SMy lex exp) = do
19:52 autrijus is clearly doing just that
19:52 _metaperl i see. thanks kolibrie and Limbic_Region
19:52 integral ugg, I really don't like this bit of perl
19:52 autrijus integral: I agree that is weird. I also think it's useful.
19:53 autrijus perl's idea of a lexical scope is much more.. dynamic
19:53 autrijus (it's also much more error prone.)
19:53 integral wouldn't it be an idea to solve then? ;-)
19:53 integral hmm, is this behaviour already spec'ed?
19:53 autrijus I'm not sure on how to "solve" this once you allow BEGIN{}.
19:53 autrijus integral: I think it's supposed to be just like p5 in this regard
19:53 integral I'd say that the $x wasn't visibile to the BEGIN
19:53 autrijus but no, it's not in any of synopsis
19:54 integral (because it doesn't exist until you enter the lexical scope of the sub)
19:54 autrijus I agree it's far saner, but also note that perl's use Module; is specced as
19:54 autrijus BEGIN { require Module; }
19:54 autrijus and it needs to see its lexical scope even if inside a named subroutine
19:55 autrijus in order for pragma modules to work
19:55 autrijus viewing from any angle, it's a huge hack... but taken together it makes an eerie kind of sense.
19:55 integral hmm
19:55 autrijus it's one of those Autostereogram things
19:56 wolverian p6l++ # 22 new posts to read
19:56 integral hrm, one might think that my $x if 0 makes sense too :-/
19:56 pmichaud wolverian: the number will only continue to increase for some time, methinks :-)
19:57 pmichaud I've got a couple of nearly-warnocked posts still outstanding :)
19:57 autrijus pmichaud: I implemented your suggestion in pugs for now
19:57 autrijus it's saner than the kluge I use
19:57 integral would p6l be the right place to ask if this is right?
19:57 autrijus integral: yes.
19:57 pmichaud anytime there's a question about what the language *should* do, it generally belongs on p6l
19:58 autrijus integral: and hey, if you can get @Larry to agree that closure entrance is not created during BEGIN time, I'd be surprised -- but it makes writing compilers much easier
19:58 autrijus ;)
19:58 pmichaud I'm pretty sure $Larry already knows the answer to this puzzle
19:59 * integral modifies his view slightly: $x should be visible, but as some kind of "prototype" variable, that you can't really assign to
19:59 autrijus mmm single-assign perl6
19:59 autrijus j/k
20:00 autrijus integral: but if $x is visible, you can also rebind it
20:00 autrijus and it will also kill the pad
20:00 autrijus unless you mandate that the pad is read-only during BEGIN time
20:00 autrijus but then, the entire module is inside a BEGIN{} block
20:00 autrijus when use'd
20:00 integral hmm
20:01 Shachaf has quit IRC ("Leaving")
20:01 svnbot6 r3120 (autrijus) -- * implement pmichaud's suggestion of numifiing
20:01 svnbot6 r3120 (autrijus) --   match objects using its string value.
20:01 Limbic_Region just change used modules to a sourcefilter
20:01 autrijus cf. "Variable will not stay shared" fiasco
20:01 Corion bbl (firefox upgrade)
20:01 Corion has left
20:01 pmichaud autrijus: if p6l comes back and agrees with my suggestion, then it'll end up being the same in PGE itself.  FWIW.
20:02 eric256 what method should be used for defaulting class properties? is that what the BUILD method is for? and if i define a build method will i loose the ability to pass properties as part of .new ?
20:02 autrijus pmichaud: sure, cool
20:02 eric256 s/properity/attribute/ i guess
20:02 autrijus eric256: see Test::Builder :)
20:02 autrijus ext/Test-Builder/
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20:03 Corion has joined #perl6
20:03 autrijus note that pugs doesn't yet run it (but hopefully soon)
20:03 autrijus once pugs run it, though, it will be the reference of OO semantics for some time.
20:03 Limbic_Region chromatic wrote that right?
20:04 autrijus right, with help from dconway and luqui
20:04 autrijus iirc
20:04 Limbic_Region grrr - I want to know who broke the Monastery
20:05 _metaperl ?game
20:05 Limbic_Region the bot left _metaperl
20:05 Shachaf has joined #perl6
20:05 _metaperl oh... it was a lot of fun while it lasted
20:05 autrijus you can run it too ;)
20:05 Limbic_Region probably needs to /msg by default
20:06 Limbic_Region or at least remember who started what game
20:06 mj has joined #perl6
20:07 Limbic_Region autrijus - out of curiosity, is there a way to determine what rev you are on straight from the pugs executable?
20:07 Limbic_Region pugs -V doesn't have it
20:07 eric256 reading its source doesn't seem to help me.  i can tell how to default method parameters...but not class attributes....unless making a BUILD methods with the right parameters defaulted is what i need...which i guess it kind of is.
20:07 integral Limbic_Region: ./pugs -V:pugs_revision
20:07 Limbic_Region it always says 0
20:07 integral oh, you're on svk?
20:08 autrijus eric256: it is. you can also use
20:08 autrijus has $.foo = 4;
20:08 autrijus which, although legal, is not yet supported in pugs
20:08 integral someone should fix util/version_h.pl so it groks SVK too
20:08 Limbic_Region integral - I am getting binary Win32 builds from Jonathan
20:08 Limbic_Region http://www.jwcs.net/~jonathan/perl6/
20:08 integral hmm, he mustn't be using svn I suppose
20:09 eric256 okay. so i'll just wait on that then ;)
20:09 pmichaud eric256:  did you look at S12?
20:09 pmichaud All classes inherit a default C<new> constructor from C<Object>.
20:09 pmichaud It expects all arguments to be named parameters initializing attributes
20:09 pmichaud of the same name.  You may write your own C<new> to override the
20:09 pmichaud default, or write constructors with any other name you like.
20:09 Limbic_Region oh well - at least he does daily builds - I can't be more than what - say 60 or 70 revisions behind each morning
20:12 autrijus so, if anyone is using parrot 0.2.0-release
20:12 autrijus please try pge with trunk
20:12 eric256 crap. i didn't read down it far enough.
20:12 autrijus and see if you can still match anything
20:12 autrijus i.e. if it just curls up and die :)
20:13 pmichaud the latest versions of pge won't run with parrot 0.2.0-release
20:13 pmichaud 0.2.0 doesn't have the find_cclass and find_not_cclass ops
20:13 autrijus oh. ok. aw.
20:13 pmichaud those were just added yesterday
20:13 * autrijus ponders what to do
20:14 PerlJam quick!  Release parrot 0.2.1
20:14 autrijus demand trunk parrot? :)
20:14 autrijus PerlJam: nah, parrot's release schedule is up to 4x slower than ours
20:14 PerlJam 4x?  I think it's much slower than that  :)
20:14 autrijus it's now monthly.
20:14 autrijus chip++
20:14 Limbic_Region 1xmonth versus 1xweek
20:15 pmichaud autrijus:  well, I can't imagine anything in pge that will require more from parrot.  It might be worthwhile to get a pugs-parrot release
20:15 pmichaud i.e., just build the equivalent of a release for distribution with pugs until the next official parrot release
20:15 pmichaud it ought to be a one-time thing
20:15 autrijus pmichaud: mayyybe.
20:15 Corion Hmmm. While browsing the tests, I found # FIXME tests that were commented out. Should these be converted into skip() tests, so we find them easier? Or is grep -l FIXME Good Enough?
20:15 autrijus need to talk with leo about that
20:15 Corion I've grown fond of the HTML view of things
20:15 pmichaud I don't believe I'm going to need anything new from parrot to fill out PGE
20:16 pmichaud but I definitely needed find_cclass and find_not_cclass
20:16 PerlJam pmichaud: famous last words ;)
20:16 pmichaud and they just didn't get added in time for 0.2.0
20:16 _metaperl is PGE supposed to add PCRE for any language compiling to Parrot?
20:16 pmichaud _metaperl: that's my vision
20:16 Limbic_Region P6CRE right
20:16 PerlJam PGE adds PGE for any language compiling to parrot  :-)
20:17 pmichaud yeah, it's more than just regular expressions :-)
20:17 Limbic_Region right
20:18 autrijus actually we have Inline::Parrot :)
20:18 autrijus in CPAN
20:18 autrijus so maybe Regexp::PGE?
20:18 autrijus or call it... *gasp* Perl6::Rules
20:18 pmichaud heh
20:20 * Limbic_Region can't imagine an anarchist wanting to follow "the rules"
20:20 pmichaud it's a verb, not a noun :-)
20:20 autrijus nah. "rules" as in "anarchism rules"
20:20 autrijus right.
20:22 boogie autrijus: ghc compiled (today's 6.4 snapshot). just another bug
20:22 svnbot6 r3121 (autrijus) -- * revert last change for now as it breaks parrot 0.2.0
20:22 svnbot6 r3122 (bsmith) -- Now tries to use the svk "Mirrored from" revision number if it's not a svn
20:22 svnbot6 r3122 (bsmith) -- checkout.
20:22 boogie Linking ...
20:22 boogie /usr/local/lib/ghc-6.4.20050506/​libHSrts_thr.a(Schedule.thr_o): In function `schedule':
20:22 boogie Schedule.thr_o(.text+0x1a7): undefined reference to `awaitEvent'
20:22 boogie collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
20:24 * boogie going to bed. it was enough for him today...
20:24 autrijus boogie: link without threads
20:24 autrijus you can fix it in Makefile.PL
20:24 autrijus that should work
20:24 autrijus i.e. remove -threads in Makefile
20:28 Khisanth has quit IRC ("Leaving")
20:28 svnbot6 r3123 (corion) -- Changed a test from ok(eval(...)) to eval_ok()
20:28 PerlJam pm: I was just looking at the characater class stuff in P6Rules ... Is there some reason you didn't make the charclass and charmatch stuff part of the constructor for PGE::Exp::CharClass?
20:29 Corion I'm moving stuff out of t/pugsbugs/ if it now works ;)
20:29 autrijus Corion++
20:29 Limbic_Region Corion plus plus
20:29 autrijus Corion: thoughts on championing S29?
20:29 autrijus Corion: we can all maintain it under docs/S29Draft.pod
20:29 pmichaud pj: yes
20:29 Corion "championing" ? Like, taking it over?
20:29 pmichaud there's not any constructor methods for the subclass, only for the base class
20:29 autrijus Corion: yeah, http://www.nntp.perl.org/gro​up/perl.perl6.language/21097
20:29 Limbic_Region Rod asked for volunteers
20:30 Corion Hmmm - I don't have much time, resp. want-need to spend it on other stuff too ... But I can try, wiki-style :)
20:30 pmichaud more to the point, at present in parrot there's no way to get a subclass to be able to call a superclass' method
20:30 autrijus Corion: I think maintaining it under docs/S29Draft.pod is a good idea, but we still need an editor :)
20:30 * Limbic_Region notes the time and heads homewards
20:30 autrijus pmichaud: uh, what?
20:30 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("hometime")
20:30 Corion autrijus: I'm good at cleaning up stuff ;)
20:30 autrijus pmichaud: you mean like ->SUPER:: ?
20:30 PerlJam pm: Oh I see.  So you'd have to duplicate all of the logic were you to do that?
20:30 pmichaud pj: right
20:30 boogie autrijus: you mean that '-threaded' should go to ghc, or should I remove it? :)
20:31 autrijus boogie: remove it will likely solve the link error
20:32 pmichaud autrijus:  what is ->SUPER:: ?
20:32 autrijus pmichaud: it's this $self->SUPER::method()
20:32 autrijus I was not sure what you're talking about that parrot doesn't do
20:32 PerlJam If I can keep the wife and kids happy without my attention, I may add character class support to Glob.pir tonight.  Otherwise it'll have to be on the weekend.
20:32 pmichaud oh, you mean from perl.  In Parrot, as far as I know there's not a way for a subclass to dispatch to an overridden method in the superclas
20:32 pmichaud s
20:33 Corion btw, is :todo now invalid? I got an error in a commented-out line which I could fix (resp. change into another error) by making it into "todo => 1"
20:33 autrijus huh?
20:33 pmichaud pj:  okay, just be aware that the interface/attributes for the ::CharClass object are likely to change
20:33 autrijus Corion: it should be ok. weird -- but I'm doing $work, no time to investigate yet
20:33 Corion np
20:34 pmichaud autrijus: http://www.nntp.perl.org/grou​p/perl.perl6.internals/29323
20:34 svnbot6 r3124 (ninereasons) -- todo<bug> a failing test
20:34 svnbot6 r3125 (corion) -- Pugsbugs cleanup: Move now working tests to their resp. directories, change parsefailing tests to new (but still failing) valid syntax
20:34 PerlJam pm: sure. But the method that's there now works right?
20:34 autrijus pmichaud: thanks!
20:34 pmichaud pj : yes
20:34 PerlJam good enough for me :)
20:34 pmichaud autrijus: super class method calls are certainly to be added in Parrot -- afaik they aren't there yet
20:34 putter has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:35 pmichaud there's certainly nothing in the docs about them, and when I asked leo about them last week they weren't available yet and leo is looking for comments
20:36 PerlJam you know, I asked the dbdi-dev mailing list if they were still alive and I bet the ability to call super's methods is one of the features they're missing (and thus partly why the list is in hibernation)
20:36 pmichaud yes, I was surprised by it as well.  But at present I've just worked around it in PGE
20:36 autrijus ok... in that case I think we don't need to create a special parrot-pge-pugs snapshot :)
20:37 autrijus we'll just demand people to use parrot trunk ;)
20:37 autrijus because codegen won't work reasonably on 0.2.0-release as well
20:37 autrijus without short attribute names, etc
20:37 PerlJam autrijus: at pugs' rate of development that's not an unreasonable demand
20:38 autrijus true :)
20:39 nothingmuch lambdacamels: how would you name an object that has arbitrary fields with accessors, can inherit data fields from others like it, and push data fields upwards to those it inherits from?
20:39 svnbot6 r3126 (corion) -- More tests moved out of t/pugsbugs/
20:40 autrijus "push data field upwards"?
20:40 Corion nothingmuch: "generic" ?
20:40 nothingmuch Corion: eh?
20:40 autrijus "classless"?
20:40 Corion nothingmuch: Your description could be all or nothing :)
20:40 nothingmuch think of it as a hash
20:40 Corion "prototyped" or "hierarchical" could be good names as well
20:41 nothingmuch where you have all the keys from the hashes you derive from
20:41 Corion (mostly synonymous with "classless")
20:41 Corion nothingmuch: Ah. "classless" it is. Like in JavaScript.
20:41 integral (Self or Class::Prototyped)
20:41 nothingmuch and you can also push your own keys upwards to your parents
20:41 nothingmuch wait wait wait
20:41 Corion nothingmuch: That's an ugly idea.
20:41 Corion nothingmuch: You don't want propagation in both directions.
20:41 Corion (at least I don't want that)
20:41 nothingmuch one is inheritence, and defaultness
20:41 nothingmuch this is not an object system
20:42 nothingmuch Corion: yes I do
20:42 Corion because if you push values upstream, they propagate downstream through the whole tree again
20:42 nothingmuch that's exactly the point
20:42 Corion Ugh.
20:42 nothingmuch =)
20:42 nothingmuch nevermind, it works
20:42 Corion Maybe you have a use case for it, but why not simply modify the parent.
20:42 nothingmuch i just need a name
20:42 nothingmuch because the object modifying the child does not get to decide whether the parent sees it's changes
20:43 nothingmuch it really is simply modifying the parent, except that it's in two steps
20:43 autrijus ok, I've decided: pugs will no longer bundle PGE; people who want rules need parrot trunk at all times; all PGE checkins happen at parrot tree.
20:43 Corion autrijus: One day, Pugs and Parrot should be one bundle ... That makes it easier for lazy people like me ;)
20:43 autrijus Corion: that day may be sooner than you think :)
20:44 autrijus (and ponie too)
20:44 nothingmuch so! anybody got a nice name? Hierarchal is too long to type, methinks. It's not classes. Generic and Prototyped don't mean anything to me
20:44 integral ponie now uses svn:external thingies
20:44 autrijus yup, I asked for that :)
20:44 jhorwitz autrijus: trying to return exit code from system() but getting a type error.  can you take a real quick look at a paste?  probably really stupid...
20:45 autrijus sure.
20:45 eric256 are junctions working? because my $choice; until ($choice == 'a' | 'b' | 'c') {} always gets skipped
20:45 pasteling "jhorwitz" at 216.52.77.2 pasted "for autrijus -- system() type error" (24 lines, 909B) at http://sial.org/pbot/10095
20:46 Corion nothingmuch: I think there was some Config:: module that does Just What you need recently
20:46 eric256 nm i;'m dumb
20:46 autrijus jhorwitz: that reads "liftIO"
20:46 autrijus rv <- liftIO $ system cmd
20:46 nothingmuch Corion: we've looked at a whole lot of these, around two weeks ago... is it that new?
20:46 eric256 string eq not ==....so fucused on all the new stuff
20:47 autrijus it's a great way to ensure that this won't happen in an atomic{} block :)
20:47 Corion nothingmuch: Hmmm. Around last week should have been it, yes.
20:47 jhorwitz autrijus: will try that.  need to learn all these new things...  :)
20:47 autrijus jhorwitz: you're in the Eval monad; to do IO things in an Eval monad, you need to lift it, that's all
20:47 nothingmuch http://search.cpan.org/~mgraham/Confi​g-Context-0.08/lib/Config/Context.pm ?
20:47 autrijus also see liftSTM elsewhere for in-memory operations
20:49 Corion autrijus: Should I send a mail to p6l regarding S29 or do we simply take over? I don't want to subscribe to p6l as I [dw]on't read it.
20:49 nothingmuch Corion: ?
20:49 jhorwitz autrijus: that did the trick.  getting another error in the return, but i think i can handle it.  :)
20:49 simcop2387 has joined #perl6
20:50 autrijus cool :)
20:51 autrijus (effect typing & dependent typing)++ # damn good idea
20:51 autrijus Corion: er. sure, send a mail to rod, ccing p6l, about the plan
20:51 Corion nothingmuch: Aaah, I now get it - that URL was to me ;) Yes, that's the one I thought about I think.
20:51 Corion nothingmuch: Maybe "Templated" or something like that is also a good name for your stuff.
20:52 nothingmuch Corion: in that case, that thing is cool, but more than what we need for some things, and doesn't really work well with this hierarchal model progressing
20:52 nothingmuch the tree changes over time
20:53 jhorwitz autrijus: maybe a BOF at YAPC for those of us not going to the hackathon?
20:53 autrijus jhorwitz: sure -- talk to rdice, not me :)
20:53 autrijus I'm fine with BOFs
20:54 autrijus I'll also stay around in the city for a while after the conf
20:54 autrijus so if you want even more hacking, I'm fine with that too
20:54 * nothingmuch 's flight is late at night the day after YAPC ends
20:54 nothingmuch so I can be available too
20:55 autrijus cool
20:55 autrijus I hear this year's going to be 500+ people
20:55 nothingmuch is that a lot or a little?
20:55 BigBear has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.2/20050321]")
20:55 ingy autrijus: good job with release
20:55 autrijus nothingmuch: that is huge, for a yapc
20:55 autrijus ingy: thanks :)
20:56 nothingmuch really? nice to know =)
20:56 autrijus ingy: I want the io() primitive, seriously :)
20:56 nothingmuch YAPC::Israel averaged around 110 people
20:56 autrijus (along with everything that comes with it)
20:56 ingy I checked Perl6::Bible and seems up to date
20:56 ingy autrijus: what is the status of io() primitive?
20:56 autrijus ingy: it's OK'ed but not implemented yet.
20:56 ingy I was going to write about IO::All to p6l
20:56 autrijus ingy: first we need to write it into S29.
20:57 autrijus which require a new champion for s29
20:57 pmichaud and it needs p6l's blessing
20:57 autrijus pmichaud: Larry blessed it a while ago
20:57 ingy just to clarify my thoughts
20:57 autrijus except the < and > bits
20:57 autrijus (replaced with <== and ==>)
20:57 ingy right
20:57 ingy I need to reread and make some points to the list
20:57 pmichaud autrijus: ah, I must've missed that.  thanks.  Then yes, we just need an S29 champion.  I'd do it but prefer to spend my energies elsewhere -- another volunteer would be good
20:57 autrijus ingy++
20:58 autrijus pmichaud: exactly me thoughts :)
20:58 autrijus s/me/my/
20:58 * PerlJam hears Queen playing in the background
20:59 PerlJam must be my imagination ... ;)
20:59 pmichaud "where are the champions...?"
20:59 mj has quit IRC ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
20:59 Corion Oh. And I just volunteered for S29, and the mail just went out  ...
20:59 pmichaud "no time for losers... cuz we need a champion... yay!"
20:59 PerlJam Corion++
20:59 pmichaud corion++
20:59 Corion While I'm not really fond of io()
21:00 PerlJam Corion: why not?
21:00 pmichaud corion:  I can request commit privs for you to the perl6 repository
21:00 pmichaud so you can maintain s29.pod directly in the repository
21:00 Corion PerlJam: Perl5 open "|rm -rf" was a bad idea, and so is much of IO::All
21:00 Corion pmichaud: I thought S29 was in the Pugs repository?
21:01 pmichaud corion:  pugs has been maintaining a separate draft for the time being
21:01 ingy autrijus: I can write io() into S29
21:01 pmichaud but it properly belongs in perl6/doc/trunk/syn
21:01 ingy or give it a shot at least
21:01 Corion (as the default. It's convenient if you know-what-you're-doing, but as the default, users don't know that)
21:01 * ingy is a champion
21:01 pmichaud I offerred commit access to rod, but he preferred to maintain it on his own site rather than learn svn
21:01 pmichaud or something like that
21:01 Corion pmichaud: Hmmm. Oh well. So I'll have to get yet-another-login/password ...
21:01 Corion as long as it's svn that's OK.
21:02 pmichaud corion:  you're welcome to maintain it wherever you wish
21:02 Corion maybe I should install svk locally
21:02 ingy pmichaud: I'll email Rod about it
21:02 PerlJam Corion: It's not a bad idea, just a tool to be used with care.  At least in perl6 open() won't be that tool anymore.
21:02 pmichaud ingy:  well, if corion will take over S29 then it all works out I think :)
21:02 Corion PerlJam: ??? If instead of open() you now say io(), people will use that as a backdoor
21:03 ingy oh ok. i missed that
21:03 Corion PerlJam: If io() starts a webserver, that's a huge security hole. the file/directory traversal part of io() is cool, the rest is a bad idea.
21:03 Corion ingy: Feel free to take S29 instead of me - I'm not really sure I should be doing this :)
21:03 Corion ingy: It would also get io() much more power :)
21:03 PerlJam Corion: perl's job is to provide options.  It's the community's job to come up with best practices or other means of preventing people from shooting themselves in the foot.
21:03 ingy Corion: I'll give io() a first draft
21:03 meppl has joined #perl6
21:04 ingy I don't want all of S29 btw :p
21:04 Corion PerlJam: It took Perl5 up to 5.6.x to get the three-arg-open(). I don't want this problem in Perl6.
21:04 meppl guten abend
21:04 Corion ingy: Bah ;)
21:04 pmichaud *nobody* wants S29 :-)
21:04 pmichaud what we really need is someone to champion it and farm out specs to others
21:04 pmichaud or coordinate patches
21:05 PerlJam meppl: guten tag :)
21:05 pmichaud I'll be glad to coordinate patches to S29, I just don't want to be writing the contents
21:05 ingy pmichaud: an S29 Pumpking!
21:05 pmichaud actually, I'll coordinate patches to any design document :-)
21:05 Corion PerlJam: io() opens a giant load of security holes if it opens server ports. Client ports are convenient, but not really necessary either in the sense of DOS attacks.
21:05 meppl nett .
21:05 ingy a  dubious title indeed :)
21:06 Corion ingy: If we have persons in charge of the ~~ operator, we can also have Pumpkings in charge of S29
21:06 ingy heh
21:06 ajs I can take S29... what's the worst that can happen, right? ;-)
21:06 pmichaud well, if Rod is stepping down as S29 coordinator, and if there's no immediate replacement, I'm probably going to just take the existing S29 and put it in the perl6/docs repo
21:07 ajs pmichaud can tell me where I get it wrong :)
21:07 pmichaud and I'll take patches from there.  It would help me to see them all as they come in :)
21:07 ingy lunch &
21:07 meppl guten abend perljam
21:07 meppl so
21:07 meppl good evening perljam
21:07 autrijus how about this -- ajs collects suggestions and new checkins
21:08 autrijus and hand them to pmichaud for perl6/docs/
21:08 autrijus once it hits there, it's considered to be the current consensus :)
21:08 pmichaud that's perfect
21:08 pmichaud others can send me patches directly, and I'll either forward them to ajs or check them in directly as appropriate
21:08 autrijus cool
21:08 pmichaud but ajs can be the point person for it :)
21:09 autrijus and pmichaud can ensure its sanity
21:09 autrijus (or lack thereof)
21:09 * Corion feels relieved :)))
21:09 pmichaud or at least point out the seemingly insane parts
21:09 autrijus Corion: :)
21:09 pmichaud corion:  you're not off the hook, you still have to submit patches :)
21:09 autrijus but at least he won't feel compelled to read the p6l firehose :)
21:10 pmichaud indeed.  All of the lists have been quite a firehose lately, and I suspect it will get bigger throughout the summer
21:10 Corion indeed :)
21:11 Corion I can sit back and snipe at everybody :)
21:11 PerlJam just wait until we have a "real" perl6 compiler
21:11 PerlJam "pugs says this, but perl6 says this.  Who's correct?"
21:11 ajs pugs was here first :)
21:11 Corion PerlJam: I don't see any "real perl6 compiler" in the near future
21:11 ajs or does the homesteading thing not work :-)
21:12 PerlJam Corion: I do.
21:13 Odin-LAP Hmm.
21:13 Corion PerlJam: Once the run time library is native (to the "real" Perl6 compiler) that maybe starts to happen, but writing a (cross-platform, native) runtime library is hard even if you steal from Perl6
21:13 Corion err - steal from Perl5
21:13 Odin-LAP What is really needed is a way to transport pugs from Haskell to Perl6...
21:13 autrijus Corion: don't underestimate the parrotfolks :)
21:13 PerlJam Corion: pm has said there will be an alpha perl6 compiler before the end of the third quarter this year.  I think he's a little optimistic, but I think than an alpha perl6 compiler is defeinitely doable this year.
21:13 Odin-LAP And essentially turn it into the "real" compiler...
21:13 Corion autrijus: Yeah, maybe I underestimate them
21:14 autrijus I see three bootstrapping routes from here; the good thing is, all three routes complement each other
21:14 autrijus and can work in a concert
21:14 Corion Heh. 1 unexpected success in r3126 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html
21:14 wolverian autrijus: could you explain them? :)
21:14 autrijus Redundant Array of Insane Hackers
21:14 PerlJam autrijus: 3?  which are they?
21:16 autrijus PerlJam: #1 is writing a PugsAST/PIR backend for Jhc/GHC, so we can compile Pugs itself to P6/PIR
21:16 autrijus (and from there, use Pugs's Perl6->Parrot codegen)
21:17 pmichaud pj:  I'm more optimistic about it than ever
21:17 pmichaud not only do I think we'll have a parrot p6 compiler by Q3 this year, I'm really hoping for OSCON
21:18 autrijus #2 is to use Pugs's Perl6->Parrot codegen monad and AST, but instead of compiling haskell to pir/p6, we translate the generating parts by hand into pir/p6.
21:19 autrijus this assumes that the parser is already in p6 rules.
21:19 Odin-LAP has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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21:20 pmichaud and of course, there's the pure p6/parrot bootstrap, which is the direction I'm still heading (no reflection on pugs)
21:20 autrijus and also that we can compile the translated p6 code to pir
21:20 Odin- has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
21:20 autrijus yes. #3 is writing the codegen and ast transformer in perl6.
21:20 autrijus or writing them in pir, and backtranslate to p.
21:20 autrijus or writing them in pir, and backtranslate to perl6.
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21:20 wolverian did you just try to tab-complete 'perl6'? :)
21:20 autrijus no :)
21:21 Juerd 20:51 < autrijus> $foo .= chomp;
21:21 Juerd 20:51 < autrijus> if you want destructive chomp
21:21 Juerd 20:51 < autrijus> iirc it's been proposed by Juerd.
21:21 svnbot6 r3127 (corion) -- Match capture variables $1 ... now reset after a failed match. Also promoted a hardfail() to eval_ok()
21:21 svnbot6 r3126 (corion) -- More tests moved out of t/pugsbugs/
21:21 Juerd Yes, but there was no discussion about non-method chomp
21:21 autrijus pmichaud: there needs to be a "lifting" stage anyway... if you write parser, codegen etc in PIR, there still needs to be a PIR->Perl6 compiler or hand translation
21:21 autrijus that is not entirely different from Haskell->Perl6 :)
21:22 pmichaud hand translation, likely
21:22 Juerd .= has been blessed, but as far as I know, there has been no specific ruling on the consistency of non-.= methods
21:22 autrijus yeah. and whenever there's hand translation, there's potential difference in semantics
21:22 Juerd I want them to consistently not-mutate, though.
21:22 pmichaud but yes, there's a lifting stage no matter what
21:22 autrijus and that's where our 7000 tests come into play :)
21:23 PerlJam autrijus: And which of the 3 will you be working on? :)
21:23 autrijus PerlJam: likely all 3
21:23 PerlJam I think #2 probably has the best chance
21:23 Juerd 7000 already
21:23 autrijus PerlJam: the beauty is that they can _all_ work at th same time  :)
21:23 PerlJam unless pm takes that as a challenge and steps up #3 just to spite me :)
21:24 Juerd Are there statistics about the number of tests, over time?
21:24 Juerd I wonder if there's some moore-like law to be found :)
21:24 autrijus if all three works, we get, a parrot-native haskell compiler, a codegen that can compile perl6 to PIR, C#, C--
21:24 Juerd "the number of tests doubles every $x days"
21:24 pmichaud pj:  I did say that I already have a bottom-up parser in PIR :)
21:24 pmichaud right now I'm working on the operation subroutine specs
21:24 autrijus and crazy two-way round tripping between various ASTs
21:24 xfgry has joined #perl6
21:25 autrijus well, not that crazy
21:25 autrijus scheme people had that, like, forever
21:25 Corion round-tripping is important for compiler regression testing - if the second round of round-trips changes anything, you've got bugs.
21:25 autrijus but it'd be new to perl :)
21:25 pmichaud so far I'm able to handle  prefix:, infix:, postfix:, postcircumfix:, circumfix:, and term: into the parser
21:25 pmichaud I'm basically missing the metas and coerce:
21:26 ajs autrijus: Has CL gotten past that stage yet? ;-)
21:26 autrijus ajs: sadly I know nothing about CL :)
21:26 iblechbot has quit IRC (Success)
21:26 svnbot6 r3127 (corion) -- Match capture variables $1 ... now reset after a failed match. Also promoted a hardfail() to eval_ok()
21:26 * ajs works in a CL shop, but not a CL guy... it's on the list
21:27 autrijus PerlJam: also, re: which parts will I be working on... I'll use whatever that works :)
21:27 Juerd pmichaud: Does statement: fit in that list, or is it parsed more sub-like?
21:27 pmichaud I'm planning that statement: will be handled top-down
21:27 pmichaud statement: and statement-modifier: are likely to be the interface between the top-down and bottom-up parsing regimes
21:28 autrijus PerlJam: however, I don't see codegen and reduction logic going away from Haskell to PIR or P6 any time soon
21:28 xfgry has quit IRC ("ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet?")
21:28 pmichaud autrijus:  unfortunately, I can never be sure what "not soon" means when you say it :-)
21:28 autrijus PerlJam: the correctness guarantee offered by GADT is not easily replaced -- not until we make sure P6 offers something like that :)
21:29 ajs pmichaud: where do I get my hands on the current state of S29?
21:29 Corion We simply port GHC to Perl6
21:29 autrijus Corion: that's #1 :)
21:29 autrijus pmichaud: it means, I think, at least a couple months
21:29 pmichaud well, I'll answer with a reverse-question -- what's the status of the S29 that's living in the pugs repo?
21:30 wolverian maybe someone should ask about perl6's equivalent of GADTs on p6l.
21:30 pmichaud Rod's latest draft is in http://www.rodadams.net/Perl/S29.pod
21:30 wolverian (someone that understands them, that is. which is not me.)
21:30 knotty_ has joined #perl6
21:30 knotty has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
21:31 autrijus pmichaud: no difference.
21:31 * eric256 has nearly completed an OO mini RPG for pugs. ;)
21:31 autrijus well, three empty newlines :)
21:31 autrijus eric256: oh. wow!
21:32 knotty_ is now known as knotty
21:32 pmichaud well, ajs, if they're both the same, then you can use either one for now.  Just send me one when you're ready and I'll replace it in the syn tree
21:32 pmichaud and we'll call it official then
21:35 Corion has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
21:36 autrijus fwiw, I don't think I like the idea of Pugs and Perl6 having different semantics, really :)
21:36 autrijus I'd much rather to share all of <grammar codegen ast> :)
21:37 autrijus and simply solve intermediate technical problems that prevents sharing, by eg. embedding and extending
21:37 pmichaud I don't think Pugs and Perl6 should have different semantics either, and yes, we can share wherever we can :)
21:38 autrijus and where translation absolutely must happen, write compiler instead of translate by hand :)
21:38 Odin-LAP has joined #perl6
21:38 autrijus (because hand-translation lose semantics)
21:38 autrijus but that's just my preference. :)
21:38 PerlJam automate automate automate
21:39 pmichaud we just want to make sure we don't end up with a piece that we only have in a compiled form with no way to rebuild it
21:39 autrijus right. and we do that by keeping the master source is the current most readable/writable form
21:39 Juerd Aw, so I can't go and write bytecode by hand? :(
21:39 autrijus and compile it down to other representations as needed :)
21:40 pmichaud exactly
21:40 autrijus from that POV, P6 should be the master source (provided no semantic is lost)
21:40 PerlJam autrijus: so ... the source will be in XML?  :>
21:40 autrijus PerlJam: no, in EBCDIC UTF-9
21:41 autrijus encoded as aperiodic Wang tiling patterns
21:44 eric256 does map still work the same or do i need to go relearn map? ;)
21:44 autrijus not exactly the same
21:44 autrijus map foo($_), @bar; # no longer works
21:44 autrijus need to write
21:44 autrijus map { foo($_) } @bar
21:44 autrijus or
21:44 autrijus @bar.map:{ foo($_) }
21:44 autrijus in other words, implicit closure form is verboten
21:47 ajs pmichaud: the only difference between those two versions is the one in the repository has a "=for review" around line 143
21:50 * integral wonders what uses Show Pad
21:51 eric256 hehe i started with junctions and a given but they have been refactored out. lol ;(
21:53 eric256 map seems to be flattening into a string....
21:59 autrijus integral: the compiler used to use that, but no longer
21:59 autrijus integral: so it's there just so Env can be Show sensibly
21:59 autrijus integral: feel free to raze it!
21:59 integral YAY!
21:59 autrijus found a spot to attack finally? :)
22:00 integral just a few bits, unfortunately
22:00 integral it's seeing the structure that's hard
22:03 clkao *yawn*
22:03 pmichaud ajs: (sorry for delay) -- okay, I'll just copy S29.pod into the repository then -- will have to do it a bit later
22:05 eric256 if i do $person.weapons{'a'} = Weapon.new(:name("sword"), :power(5) );
22:05 eric256 how would i then access that ?  $person.weapons{'a'} right?
22:07 autrijus I imagine so, yes
22:07 pmichaud ummm, wouldn't you want   %person.weapons{'a'}  there ?
22:07 autrijus see Set.pm for a working example
22:07 autrijus hm?
22:07 autrijus sigil is invariant, no?
22:07 autrijus $person is the object
22:07 autrijus $person.weapons is the accessor
22:08 pmichaud ah, okay, I was misreading it
22:08 eric256 so then i have
22:08 eric256 $self.weapons.keys.map:{ "\t" ~ $_ ~ "-attack with " ~ $self.weapons{$_}.name ~ "\n"};
22:08 autrijus oh btw.
22:08 autrijus you can write
22:08 eric256 but the $self.weapons{$_}.name doesn't like me at all.
22:08 autrijus "\t$_-attack with $self.weapons{$_}.name\n"
22:09 autrijus eric256: check in your code under examples/ so we can see you?
22:09 autrijus eric256: your email please -- I'll make you a committer :)
22:09 pmichaud what is .name there?
22:09 pmichaud does it need to be .name() ?
22:09 eric256 [email@hidden.address]
22:09 autrijus .name() yes.
22:09 eric256 .name is an attribute of the Weapon class
22:09 autrijus inside strings, that is
22:09 eric256 ohhh
22:10 autrijus outside strings, I think .name should still work, no?
22:10 pmichaud outside strings .name should work, yes
22:10 pmichaud method accessors inside strings always require after the last one
22:10 eric256 *** Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&name":
22:10 pmichaud s/require/require ()/
22:10 eric256 and if i put it all in the string i get "s-attack with <obj:Person>.weaponss.name"
22:11 autrijus oh. hm
22:11 autrijus try
22:11 clkao 6.2.3 coming out?
22:11 autrijus .weapons(){$_}
22:11 autrijus clkao: already
22:11 clkao autrijus++
22:11 clkao autrijus++ # while i was partying
22:11 autrijus eric256: ah. I see why.
22:12 autrijus our MMD was not dealing with untyped Hash
22:12 autrijus so you probably need to say
22:12 autrijus my $weapon = $.weapons{$_};
22:12 autrijus ... $weapon.name ...
22:12 autrijus btw, $self.weapons can be written as $.weapons
22:12 autrijus or, even better
22:12 autrijus my Weapon $weapon = $.weapons{$_};
22:13 autrijus $weapon.name;
22:13 autrijus that's a bug... but you can't yet specify
22:13 autrijus has Weapon %.weapons;
22:13 Juerd Even better: s/=/:=/ :)
22:13 autrijus well it can, but wouldn't work
22:13 autrijus yeah, := too
22:13 autrijus hierarchical types gives me headaches
22:13 autrijus so will probably need to wait a while
22:13 autrijus a while being a few weeks
22:13 eric256 i'm now completly lost. ;)
22:13 Juerd There's enough to do to take weeks
22:14 eric256 i'll rewrite then to not use a map and use some temp variables?
22:14 autrijus something like that.
22:14 autrijus commit the code? :)
22:15 autrijus (invitation has been sent to your gmail account)
22:15 autrijus as examples/some_rpg_game_name_here/ or examples/games/some_rpg_game_name_here/
22:15 * eric256 waits for invite
22:16 Juerd 101 days
22:16 Juerd 101 people in AUTHORS
22:16 autrijus cool
22:16 Juerd Yea
22:17 Alatar has quit IRC ("Fui embora")
22:17 eric256 can i commit thru SVN?
22:17 autrijus yes
22:18 autrijus just "svn ci"
22:18 autrijus you may need to "svn add" first
22:18 autrijus welcome aboard, btw :)
22:18 * eric256 crosses his fingers and hopes
22:19 eric256 added as wizard.p6 in examples/games
22:19 autrijus nice!
22:19 eric256 of course this is the now broken version. ;)
22:19 autrijus that's fine. I'll boot to freebsd now to haxx0r on that
22:19 autrijus brb.
22:19 pmichaud well, all, gotta run for a while.  bbt
22:19 pmichaud has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]")
22:22 * eric256 has to run for a while... later
22:22 svnbot6 r3128 (eric256) -- Wizard RPG game based sort of on the one from Perl Monks
22:32 stevan I just had a MetaModel "ah-ha" moment :)
22:32 stevan I will try and record it later
22:32 stevan mugwump: ping me when you wake up
22:33 mugwump ok
22:33 mugwump I'll let you know... still haven't had my morning coffee yet
22:33 sbkhh is now known as Odin-
22:33 mugwump autrijus++  # fixing Set.pm
22:37 autrijus eric256: fixed.
22:37 autrijus it uncovered two bugs:
22:37 svnbot6 r3129 (autrijus) -- * wizard.p6 runs.
22:37 svnbot6 r3128 (eric256) -- Wizard RPG game based sort of on the one from Perl Monks
22:37 autrijus 1. "$obj.method() foo" will eat the space between ) and f
22:38 autrijus 2. "when (1|2) { ... }" doesn't work.
22:38 autrijus i.e. always match fails against junctions
22:38 autrijus tests welcome for both of them.
22:38 * autrijus killed the Army of Frogs multiple times
22:39 crysflame heh!  gotos dont kill people, stupid programmers do
22:39 crysflame seen elsewhere
22:39 jabbot crysflame: I havn't seen elsewhere , crysflame
22:39 crysflame oh
22:39 crysflame this is #perl6.
22:39 * crysflame curses yet again and switches two windows leftward.
22:40 mnic has joined #perl6
22:41 cognominal my @a = <<  %ENV<PATH>  >>  # can someone explain?
22:42 cognominal I would expext it to be an array containing the current PATH
22:42 mnic I really don't like the trinary operator in 6. I mean, why must say '??' and '::'. Larry's explanation doesn't satify me.
22:42 autrijus mnic: hm? || and // etc shortcuts
22:42 svnbot6 r3129 (autrijus) -- * wizard.p6 runs.
22:42 svnbot6 r3130 (autrijus) -- * minor fixups
22:43 autrijus i.e. they may cause its operand to not evaluate
22:43 autrijus unlike almost all other operators
22:43 clkao tha really looks like lots of autrijus--
22:43 obra autrijus: we missed you today
22:43 autrijus obra: :)
22:43 clkao the bot needs ot make author++
22:43 autrijus you had fun?
22:43 autrijus clkao: sure, fix it? it's in examples/network/svnbot.p6
22:44 autrijus you are, incidentally, a committer now.
22:44 autrijus Welcome aboard :)
22:45 autrijus mnic: but anyway. ?? and :: looks like || and // to denote short circuiting
22:45 mnic ok
22:45 autrijus and frees ? for boolification and : for adverbs
22:45 autrijus so I think that's a win
22:45 autrijus $person.weapons<a> = Weapon.new(:name<sword>, :power(5) );
22:45 autrijus that looks quite neat thanks to the : :)
22:46 mnic okay, i will look into it more.
22:47 mnic I just use stuff like this all the time: my $var = ($a == 10) ? $a : $b;
22:47 mnic And I don't like changing that to: my $var = ($a == 10) ?? $a :: $b;
22:47 mugwump where are adverbs described?
22:47 autrijus mugwump: all over the place
22:48 autrijus there's adverbial pairs, adverbial blocks, adverbial parameters
22:48 autrijus and more
22:48 cognominal I don't see Pair as a native type in S06.pod. Is this a shortcoming?
22:48 mnic has left
22:48 cognominal also, I am surprised to see
22:49 cognominal pugs>  ref  (a => 'b')
22:49 cognominal ::Scalar
22:49 cognominal I would expect ::Pair as a result
22:50 knewt jesus. 42 commits since i last synced up to trunk. (although some of those will be from when mainline was down, so i will have seen them on the fallback)
22:50 autrijus 42 is normal :)
22:50 knewt sorry. 142
22:50 autrijus cognominal: literals are flattened, I think
22:50 Shillo has joined #perl6
22:50 autrijus aw.
22:50 autrijus pugs> my $x = :a<b>; $x.ref
22:50 autrijus ::Pair
22:50 Shillo Hullo!
22:50 knewt autrijus: 142, not 42 *g*
22:50 autrijus cognominal: but I'm not exactly sure.
22:51 clkao why is svnbot so slow
22:51 clkao to get on irc
22:51 autrijus clkao: sleep 300
22:51 autrijus also you need to pass it various parameters
22:52 clkao have to invite
22:52 clkao i have no op!
22:52 ChanServ sets mode: +o autrijus
22:52 autrijus sets mode: +o clkao
22:52 clkao doesn't work!
22:53 autrijus what's the bot name?
22:53 clkao svntest
22:54 svntest6 has joined #perl6
22:54 autrijus it worksforme.
22:54 clkao eek
22:54 svntest6 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
22:54 autrijus the log reads
22:54 autrijus » Got an invitation from "autrijus!~autrijus@220-132-132-105.HINET-IP.hinet.net" to join channel "#perl6".
22:54 autrijus » Joined channel "#perl6".
22:55 clkao i don't get that log
22:56 svntest has joined #perl6
22:57 clkao commit something!
22:57 autrijus ...
22:59 MAYITA has joined #perl6
22:59 svnbot6 r3131 (clkao) -- for svnbot.p6:
22:59 svnbot6 r3131 (clkao) -- * Increase karma for author that commits.
22:59 svnbot6 r3131 (clkao) -- * Accept additional repository ARGV so you dont need a svn wc.
22:59 svnbot6 r3132 (autrijus) -- * reformat VICTUALS a bit
23:00 clkao oh it's per-line!
23:00 Shillo_ has joined #perl6
23:00 larsen has joined #perl6
23:00 clkao karma autrijus
23:00 svntest r3131 (clkao++) -- for svnbot.p6:
23:00 svntest r3131 (clkao++) -- * Increase karma for author that commits.
23:00 svntest r3131 (clkao++) -- * Accept additional repository ARGV so you dont need a svn wc.
23:00 svntest r3132 (autrijus++) -- * reformat VICTUALS a bit
23:00 jabbot clkao: autrijus has karma of 145
23:01 * clkao grins
23:01 clkao and i don't need svn wc to run that.
23:02 obra   clever
23:03 clkao obra++ # autrijusized
23:03 autrijus clkao++ # writing p6!
23:03 autrijus now let's just get http://svn.perl.org/ponie/trunk/ going a bit
23:03 autrijus and the entire svk can be converted bit by bit to p6!
23:03 * clkao giggles
23:03 obra autrijus: we were discussing it with nichloas
23:03 clkao if you can do the io layer crap
23:04 obra one of the issues is the lack of support for svn:externals in svk right now
23:04 autrijus clkao: the support is there already ParrotIOLayer
23:04 clkao we'll sort out proper way for him to do venodr branch
23:04 clkao autrijus: but in perl6 land i need!
23:04 clkao if you can demostrate perlio::via::dynamic
23:04 autrijus clkao: right... write tests ;)
23:04 clkao but if shouldn't require that magic for that
23:05 clkao which synopsis is for that?
23:05 clkao "it's like perl... but less hateful!"
23:05 autrijus clkao: perlio? I think it ties to the io() primitive
23:06 autrijus clkao: Larry ok'ed IO::All in core
23:06 clkao (!)
23:06 autrijus clkao: so work with ingy to get that section written
23:06 clkao but layers?
23:06 MAYITA has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
23:06 clkao i refuse to
23:06 autrijus IO::All has layers
23:06 clkao that will keep reminding me storable in cookie
23:06 autrijus but hey, just design it the way you see fit
23:07 clkao so there's no explicit synopsis for layered io yet?
23:07 autrijus $handle.layers.push(':utf8');
23:07 clkao oh.
23:07 autrijus clkao: http://svn.perl.org/perl6/doc​/trunk/plans/design_docs.pod
23:07 autrijus it's on the list next to threading
23:07 autrijus so pretty high priority
23:08 clkao as in to be documented?
23:08 autrijus yeah
23:08 autrijus or as in to be OK'ed
23:08 clkao alright. so it's wild land
23:08 autrijus when presented with sane designs
23:08 autrijus it is :)
23:09 * autrijus notes that PerlIO is also a wild land thing
23:09 autrijus it's less than 3 years old :)
23:09 autrijus (the layers as we know it)
23:09 clkao grr
23:10 autrijus but really, read pdd01 :)
23:11 autrijus in particular, in parrot you have
23:11 Shillo_ has quit IRC ("Leaving")
23:11 autrijus $P0 = open "http://svk.elixus.org/", "<:utf8"
23:12 clkao YUCK!
23:12 clkao that in parrot?
23:12 clkao do you mean that the vm speaks http?
23:12 clkao WTF
23:12 autrijus the vm speaks URI.
23:12 autrijus how it is handled depends on scheme registers.
23:12 clkao and how does it callback?
23:12 clkao phew
23:12 clkao ok
23:12 autrijus registered scheme handlers, that is.
23:13 misc autrijus: it could potentially use "open irc://..." :)
23:13 autrijus yes :)
23:14 clkao ok i need to do something interesting tomorrow or i'll die
23:14 obra clkao: we'll find things
23:14 clkao good
23:17 Shillo has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:20 rindolf has joined #perl6
23:21 rindolf Does anyone here has op on #perl?
23:21 autrijus sets mode: -o autrijus
23:21 rindolf autrijus: here?
23:21 autrijus rindolf: yes?
23:21 autrijus I'm not #perl op.
23:22 rindolf autrijus: that's OK.
23:22 rindolf autrijus: someone was spamming #perl.
23:23 eric256 autrijus: did i see you say that you fixed the issue with my code ;) your amazing! ;)
23:23 rindolf He no longer does.
23:23 revdiablo anybody know what CEST timezone is in relation to GMT?
23:23 rindolf has left "Client Exiting"
23:25 revdiablo +2 hours?
23:25 mugwump isn't CEST a junction of timezones?
23:26 revdiablo listed as Central European Summer Time
23:26 revdiablo http://www.timeanddate.com/lib​rary/abbreviations/timezones/
23:26 revdiablo I just googled it :)
23:26 mugwump TZ=CET date
23:27 * eric256 begines to recompile ;) guess i should make some tests for that case ehh?
23:28 autrijus eric256: the fix is just in the .p6 -- no need to recompile :)
23:28 autrijus also, if compilation is slow, "make unoptimised" will help
23:29 eric256 cool. ohh i thought you fixed the code. so the bug is still there. you just bypassed it in the .p6.  thanks!
23:29 autrijus yup :)
23:30 eric256 if/else works in a given?
23:30 autrijus now would be an excellent time to commit into t/ :)
23:30 autrijus sure, given is not special
23:30 autrijus given just sets $_
23:30 autrijus and set scope for when exit
23:30 autrijus that's all it does
23:30 autrijus so you can use it freely without when{}
23:31 eric256 ohh. didn't know that.. cool.
23:31 mugwump ah, no, it's all<CDT CST EDT EST> that are junction timezones
23:33 mugwump ie, CDT refers to one<+10:30 -5:00>, CST to one<+9:30 -6:00>, etc
23:33 svnbot6 r3133 (revdiablo) -- fixed debian/changelog datestamp lines to conform to parsechangelog's regular expression
23:33 svntest r3133 (revdiablo++) -- fixed debian/changelog datestamp lines to conform to parsechangelog's regular expression
23:34 mugwump svntest, svnbot6, duke it out
23:34 eric256 so when is different than if how?
23:36 revdiablo the only difference is svntest increments the karma for each commit?
23:37 autrijus revdiablo: svnbot6 will do that after a restart
23:37 autrijus eric256: when topicalises $_
23:37 autrijus when 3 { ... $_ is now 3 ... }
23:37 autrijus if 3 { ... always true ... }
23:37 autrijus er sorry
23:37 autrijus I thought given {}
23:37 autrijus when {} is smart match against $_.
23:37 autrijus when FOO { ... }
23:37 autrijus is like
23:37 autrijus if ($_ ~~ FOO) { ... }
23:38 eric256 lol. okay. so you can use it outside of given blocks. the two just work together to make a pretty case like statment
23:38 larsen has quit IRC ("alter")
23:38 autrijus yes.
23:38 autrijus I'll bbl
23:38 autrijus &
23:39 ninereasons stevan, should all the 'force_todo' s be changed to per-line :todo<reasons> ?
23:42 mugwump I think so, ninereasons
23:43 ninereasons me too, mugwump.  I think I'll go do some of that.
23:44 eric256 okay so i'm righting a test that i know it fails right now... where should i put it? or how should i mark it?
23:44 mugwump ninereasons: eg, commit 3083 does that
23:45 mugwump also r2762
23:45 mugwump (searchable commit messages)++
23:46 mugwump eric256, you meen "writing", presumably, "righting" would be "to make right", or correct
23:47 mugwump put :todo<feature>, :todo<bug>, etc at the end of the is()/ok()/... arguments
23:47 eric256 yes writing...it's like 80 degrees at my desk ;)
23:48 eric256 ok($pass == 1, 'when', :todo <bug>);
23:48 mugwump jabbot, (80 - 32) * 5 / 9
23:48 jabbot mugwump: But your desk.
23:48 eric256 liek that?
23:49 mugwump looks right to me, though I'd write that as
23:49 mugwump is($pass, 1, "when", :todo<bug>);
23:50 revdiablo how do I get pugs to build with embedded parrot? I have to tell pugs where parrot is, or something?
23:51 eric256 i was then doing 'pugs junction_any_pick.t' to run it but it yells at me.  is there some other way i can run the test to make sure it behaves?
23:51 mugwump eval_ok() is the normal way for correct code which doesn't parse yet
23:52 eric256 but it is the :todo part that is not parseing yet.
23:52 svntest has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
23:52 mugwump um... :todo<> definitely works :)
23:53 eric256 *** Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&todo": NonTerm (MkPos "junction_any_pick.t" 55 23 55 33) at junction_any_pi
23:53 eric256 ck.t line 55, column 1-34
23:53 eric256 runs fine without the :todo <bug> part
23:53 mugwump drop the space?
23:53 eric256 aha!
23:54 mugwump this is Perl, it's only whitespace insensitive when the whitespace doesn't make the code look different ;)
23:54 autrijus revdiablo: yes. read README and run Makefile.PL? :)
23:54 eric256 thanks...now to find a better file to house this test in...any_pick is not right
23:55 obra autrijus: did you hack SetupSessionCookie to deal with chinese rtnames?
23:55 simcop2387 has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:55 autrijus revdiablo: set PUGS_EMBED env to 'parrot' and PARROT_PATH to source of a completed parrot build dir
23:55 autrijus obra: no, I outlawed them
23:56 eric256 [autrijus] any idea where a good home for the when test would be?
23:56 autrijus not sure if I merged back though; although a good utf8-happy cookie is generally useful
23:56 autrijus eric256: I don't know, improvise!
23:56 autrijus merge into t/statements/given.t perhaps
23:56 autrijus but other ways are fine too
23:56 autrijus just improvise :)
23:57 eric256 i just don't want to tick someone off. ;) i figure i would right some test cases for junctions/given and just didn't know where to stick it. so i guess i'll hunt around and stick it where i want! (:
23:58 mugwump if someone doesn't like it they can just move it
23:59 autrijus right.
23:59 autrijus think wikipedia. it's impossible to accidentally tick other people off...

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