Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-05-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 autrijus like ovid said, you have to really try to do that :)
00:00 obra clkao++
00:00 obra clkao++ # might do charts on the rt front page.
00:00 autrijus but now, really sleep. 8am. :) &
00:01 clkao it looks prettyuy!
00:02 crysflame mm, sleeep
00:02 svnbot6 r3134 (eric256) -- Added tests to show junction bug
00:03 clkao run the new bot and do karma
00:04 eric256 adios all.  feels good doing my little part. ;)
00:04 eric256 has left
00:08 revdiablo autrijus: thanks, I guess I should have thought to check the README :)
00:16 drbean pugs requires parrot for rules, but parrot-0.2.0 has no Makefile.PL
00:18 drbean It appears I have to run perl Configure.pl first
00:20 clkao is there Makefile.PL in perl ?
00:21 clkao you have to run Configure.sh, not even .pl
00:23 drbean In parrot, you mean?
00:24 drbean I tried to install parrot with CPANPLUS, but failed
00:25 revdiablo running Configure.pl by hand works for me, drbean
00:26 eric256 has joined #perl6
00:27 drbean Yeh, it seems to be being built, running by hand.
00:27 * merlyn builds the PUGS release in another window
00:29 merlyn hey - is this s aknown problem - ld: warning multiple definitions of symbol _BC
00:29 merlyn and if so, can I ignore it?
00:29 merlyn that's for _BC and _UP and _PC
00:29 Juerd I've not seen it before.
00:29 merlyn looks like it's curses related
00:29 drbean clkao: I don't see any Configure.sh, just Configure.PL
00:29 drbean s/PL/pl/
00:30 merlyn 6.2.3 built and installed!
00:30 Juerd merlyn: Great!
00:31 Juerd merlyn: Now you can start writing Learning Perl 6 ;)
00:31 revdiablo pugs it up, baby.
00:31 merlyn Eventually sure
00:31 merlyn I gotta finish alpaca 23d first
00:31 merlyn 2ed
00:31 merlyn due out in november
00:31 * Juerd still has to read it
00:31 merlyn probably start writing in june or july
00:31 Juerd But I promised myself not to read any book until I finish HOP
00:32 Juerd I never finish books :(
00:32 Juerd And this time I really want to.
00:32 eric256_ has joined #perl6
00:33 Juerd merlyn: As long as it's in stores by christmas (when Perl 6.0.0 is released), any schedule suffices :)
00:33 Odin-LAP Ever the optimist...
00:34 merlyn of course, which christmas.
00:34 Juerd Odin-LAP: I didn't say which christmas... :)
00:34 merlyn correct. :)
00:34 mugwump it will be all our christmasses coming at once!
00:34 Odin-LAP Juerd: 2106 sound reasonable?
00:34 Juerd Odin-LAP: No.
00:35 merlyn 2106 in what base?
00:35 Juerd Odin-LAP: The world ends in 2037, so it must be before then or all our efforts were meaningless
00:35 Odin-LAP merlyn: Hexadecimal, of course.
00:35 merlyn the world ends dec 23, 2013
00:35 merlyn so say the mayans!
00:35 merlyn and look where they are... dead!
00:35 mugwump 2012 actually
00:35 merlyn right
00:35 merlyn sorry
00:36 Juerd merlyn: The mayans obviously don't use unix time stamps.
00:36 merlyn apparently not.
00:36 Juerd They end january 2038
00:36 merlyn for the last few months, I've been sending out x-mayan-date: headers. :)
00:36 Juerd And we humans always try to solve problems before they occur
00:36 Juerd So we'll have to kill the planet before 2038
00:36 merlyn thansk to gnu emacs. :)
00:37 mugwump "significant" astronomical events on or around that date include: Sol's passing through the equatorial plane of the galaxy, and the precession of the earth's Equinox into Aquarius
00:37 merlyn o/~ the dawning of the age of aquarius ... o/~
00:37 Juerd I expect perl 6.0.0 by christmas 2006 now
00:38 Juerd But I have been too optimistic in the past :)
00:38 merlyn it's also merely a rollover in their calendar too
00:38 merlyn they believed 13 major cycles was enough
00:38 obra Juerd: which xmas?
00:38 merlyn and that' weve been through 5 of those long sets of 13
00:38 merlyn or something like that
00:38 merlyn wikipedia knows more than I do
00:39 Juerd obra: 2006
00:39 merlyn baktuns - there it is
00:39 obra Juerd: which xmas 2006? Orthodox or Catholic?
00:39 nothingmuch has quit IRC ()
00:39 Juerd obra: Mine, and I'm neither.
00:39 Juerd http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=204115
00:40 Juerd I guessed 2003-07-05 before :)
00:41 Odin-LAP obra: The distinction can be traced to julian/gregorian calendars. So it's not just the catholics, but also protestant churches...
00:41 obra Odin-LAP sure.
00:43 merlyn sorry.  we're in the 4th long day.  the 5th begins dec 21 2012, or maybe dec 23 2012.
00:43 merlyn hard to tell which
00:43 merlyn thanks to the catholic church burning all the writings of the priests who visited the mayans
00:43 ajs_home has joined #perl6
00:43 merlyn (catholic church)-- continually wanting us to live in darkness
00:44 Odin-LAP merlyn: Hmm. Confirmed burned, or possibly in the papal archives?
00:44 merlyn well, same net effect.
00:44 merlyn but from what I understand, confirmed destroyed
00:44 merlyn what little we still now have is from the memory of the priests who wrote the originasl
00:44 Odin-LAP Hm. That sucks.
00:45 merlyn at least, that's what I recall from visiting central america a few months ago
00:45 merlyn when I started adding my mayan date. :)
00:45 Odin-LAP (As does the catholic church and most of organised religion, but that's another story.)
00:45 Juerd It'd really suck if they turn out to be right, though.
00:45 merlyn just like the catholic church really trying to supress copernicus
00:45 merlyn etc.
00:45 merlyn it's all about control bay-bee.
00:45 merlyn just like the republican party right now.
00:46 merlyn turnign the US into their own playground
00:46 Odin-LAP Bah.
00:46 Juerd All politics and religion are about control.
00:46 ajs_home I'm about to send out a follow-up to the "we'll take S29" mail, letting peopel know to send mail to me with suggestions, etc. Anything anyone wants in that message?
00:46 mugwump right now?  it's been going for a LONG time merlyn :)
00:46 merlyn true.  dems have troubles on the other side.
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00:46 merlyn getting the populus depedent on government
00:46 Odin-LAP Western "democracy" is a sham. A ploy to hide the powerplaying by various people.
00:47 merlyn Yeah, the closest I label myself is a libertarian, and even that has troubles
00:47 mugwump it's a great way to excuse the need for consensus on any issue
00:47 Juerd Democracy can work
00:47 Odin-LAP merlyn: Libertarianism is yucky too, IMO.
00:47 ajs_home Ok, sending
00:47 Juerd merlyn: It's funny how america's left wing is considered right wing in the netherlands
00:47 Juerd we go lefter! :)
00:47 merlyn someone put it nicely.  you want to have a debate that gets about 49% of the people on each side.
00:47 merlyn so you slide the argument left and right until that happens.
00:47 merlyn then that aargument can be a lightning rod to keep people from asking about real issues
00:48 Odin-LAP The U.S. only has a right wing. It's got an extremist right, and a far-extremist right.
00:48 mugwump that's 49% of the people who vote, too
00:48 merlyn apparenly, the current axis debates are on gay marriage and such
00:48 merlyn that's apparently a 49% split issue
00:48 merlyn like abortion was a few years ago
00:49 Juerd It quite schocked me when a few days again I learned that in the US, 1 out of every 150 or so people is in prison.
00:49 merlyn and a child is beaten every 14 seconds.  poor kid. :)
00:50 merlyn why wouldn't you believe that 1 of every 150 people are so below average (6 sigma deviants) that they deserve to be locked up? :")
00:50 merlyn that makes sense to us. :)
00:51 Odin-LAP Nobody deserves to be locked up.
00:51 Juerd merlyn: Is that 6? I'd guess around 4.
00:51 Odin-LAP Have you heard of the Stanford prison experiment?
00:51 Juerd Probably less, 3.1?
00:51 Juerd merlyn: Yeah - that it makes sense is the scary part. It's normal for you.
00:52 merlyn we convict on a curve in the US. :)
00:52 mugwump prisons are just as bad as western hospitals, functionally.  ie, they work sometimes but generally are going about it all wrong..
00:52 merlyn there's no absolute wrong, just relatively bad enough to look really wrong by comparison
00:52 Odin-LAP merlyn: I'm sure that's of comfort to ODESSA.
00:53 merlyn well - I figure it's how I got convicted.
00:53 mugwump if they released the 75% of people in prison for drug crimes and started selling them through pharmacies to undermine the gangs that would be a good start
00:53 * Juerd wouldn't want to live in, or visit, the US
00:53 merlyn I was an easy target. "looking whre the light's good"
00:53 merlyn legallizing most vice crimes would proabbly eliminate 60% of the prisons
00:53 merlyn but that'll never happen here
00:53 Odin-LAP merlyn: Of course. If they were to start looking where there's no light, they might have to actually spend some effort!
00:53 Juerd "soft" drugs will eventually be legal here
00:53 mugwump shit, I thought this was perl.org #perl for a moment.
00:53 Juerd It has to go that way.
00:54 Odin-LAP Juerd: Hm. For the whole country, then?
00:54 Juerd mugwump: Why does that matter?
00:54 merlyn I'm still trying to figure out where I'd rather live though.
00:54 Juerd Odin-LAP: It can't be legal for only a part of it.
00:54 merlyn We still enjoy relatively more freedom than almost any other country.
00:54 merlyn everythign taken as a whole.
00:54 Juerd Odin-LAP: We have a single law system for the entire (small) country.
00:54 Odin-LAP Juerd: I understand the Amsterdam police are quite liberal with their interpretation..?
00:55 merlyn it is indeed time to garbage-collect the case-law of the US
00:55 Juerd Odin-LAP: All are, all are.
00:55 merlyn as in hit the big reset button
00:55 Juerd Odin-LAP: Amsterdam just likes to benefit from the extra tourism :)
00:55 Juerd And Amsterdam is the only place where a tourist can easily find the "coffee" shops.
00:55 merlyn I suspect I'll marry a mexican, and move there.
00:55 merlyn that seems like the easiest path out.
00:55 Odin-LAP Juerd: Hmm. I see.
00:56 Juerd (To a dutchman, a "coffee shop" is not a place where you get coffee. Remember this if you ever visit our country.)
00:56 merlyn oddly enough, they want to marry me to get to the US. :)
00:56 Odin-LAP merlyn: Sure. Just so long as NAFTA doesn't screw them too much...
00:56 merlyn maybe I'll meet a great girl in brazil.
00:56 merlyn gonna be there for two weeks
00:56 Odin-LAP Juerd: Heh.
00:56 Juerd Too many foreigners enter these pot houses thinking they can get a cup of coffee. It's not even funny anymore.
00:56 merlyn got my visa a few days ago, being on edge the entire time.
00:57 merlyn but done deal.
00:57 merlyn time to go finish some more beer.
00:57 merlyn & beer 30
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00:58 mugwump huh?  I've bought coffee in an Amsterdam coffeeshop before :)
00:58 mugwump with a piece of space cake on the side
00:59 Juerd http://www.xs4all.nl/~tluif/Hu​mor_bestanden/Hollanders.html
01:00 svnbot6 r3135 (ninereasons) -- convert force_todos to per-line :todo, and fix a broken example
01:00 Juerd Most of it is true.
01:00 obra amsterdam++ #Good eetcafes
01:00 Juerd obra: You're not picky enough then :P
01:00 obra Juerd: no. I spent three days looking and finally found a couple very nice ones
01:03 Juerd Okay :)
01:04 * Juerd never spent three days in amsterdam
01:04 Juerd I don't like that city.
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01:13 drbean Netherlands seems to be a great place for perl, but although Guido
01:13 drbean is also from there, is python as big there?
01:17 Juerd Nah
01:18 Juerd Though python attracts more new programmers than perl does
01:19 Juerd nite!
01:19 Juerd afk
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01:44 f0rth version_h.pl hates svk ._.
01:47 f0rth because my svk installation speaks Chinese
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02:08 svnbot6 r3136 (eric256) -- Fixed up some, actualy does damage and ends.
02:09 * eric256_ realizes that commit comment doesn't make much sense out of context
02:12 mugwump http://lists.utsl.gen.nz/pipermail​/pugs-commits/2005-May/000467.html makes sense, though :)
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02:19 eric256_ that is spefiy.  the bot should provide that link ;)... to bad IRC doesn't realy have a link sending protocol.
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02:40 meppl gute nacht
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02:55 svnbot6 r3137 (jhorwitz) -- * return proper exit codes from system()
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04:55 svnbot6 r3138 (Stevan) -- Tree - changed from Tree::Simple to Tree; it works too
04:55 svnbot6 r3139 (Stevan) -- Tree - moved Tree::Simple completely to Tree
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05:19 * mugwump & # weekend
05:46 Khisanth hcchien: did you notice the misspelling of MultiDaysEvent? :)
05:46 svnbot6 r3140 (mugwump) -- Add union/different/etc operators to Set
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05:52 hcchien Khisanth: maybe not? can you give me a hint? :)
05:53 hcchien oh, I saw that. :/
05:54 * Khisanth was just looking for some calendar generating module
05:54 Khisanth what exactly is a pugs live cd?
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06:15 svnbot6 r3141 (Stevan) -- Tree - More methods and tests added/converted
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07:07 mj morning
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07:21 svnbot6 r3142 (scook0) -- Haddocks for Monads.hs
07:21 svnbot6 r3143 (scook0) -- Tests for slurpy hash params
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07:44 Aankhen`` Yey, no more notices... :-)
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08:16 svnbot6 r3144 (scook0) -- Updated Haddocks to reflect Autrijus's answers to my questions
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08:22 svnbot6 r3145 (scook0) -- Fixed & added Haddocks for Bind.hs
08:25 tphyahoo Hello.  This is my first time using irc.  I hang around perlmonks, am interested in pugs, and just thought I would check this out.
08:27 tphyahoo clear
08:27 tphyahoo All right, I've got to go.  Will check back in later. :)
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09:23 f0rth is it ok to replace "grep /Mirrored From/" with "grep /https?/" and "/Rev\. (\d+)/" with "/ (\d+)$/" in util/version_h.pl to work with non-english svk?
09:24 clkao f0rth: reset the LC_* env before invoking svk
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09:25 f0rth and windows?
09:26 f0rth having tried that morning on win32 but not working
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09:27 clkao ah. bah
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09:50 gaal has anyone had any luck building the latest snapshot parrot on either msys or cygwin?
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10:37 Daniel_Nee Dear Autrijus: could you please check your email, I need your help on Monday or Tuesday afternoon, Thanks a lot.
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10:53 Aankhen`` Assuming the Parrot source has been checked out into C:\Development\parrot -- and built there, of course -- what would PARROT_PATH need to be set to?
10:53 Aankhen`` Just setting it to C:\Development\parrot doesn't seem to work.  It complains about a lot of .lib files.
10:53 Aankhen`` (I verified that it only happens when I set PUGS_EMBED to "parrot")
10:55 * Aankhen`` wanders off and hopes he'll come back to an answer.
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11:11 iblech Khisanth: The Pugs Live CD is a small bootable cd which boots directly into Pugs
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11:15 iblech Khisanth: I plan to add Parrot to it, and some example programs, and networking support, etc.
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11:25 autrijus f0rth: yes, please fix the version_h
11:25 autrijus f0rth: you're a committer now, btw. welcome aboard!
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11:59 nothingmuch gugod: ping
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12:47 Limbic_Region http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=456696 # pugs examples being used as a reference source at the Monastery
12:47 svnbot6 r3146 (autrijus) -- * Partially revert jhorwitz's change on `system()`.
12:47 svnbot6 r3146 (autrijus) --   Perl 6's `system()` actually returns true on success and
12:47 svnbot6 r3146 (autrijus) --   false on failure.  We can, though, set $! as the exit code.
12:47 svnbot6 r3147 (autrijus) -- * "make haddock" should clean up after itself.
12:47 svnbot6 r3148 (autrijus) -- * minor cleanup.
12:47 autrijus Forth: I've implemeted your suggestion. You may wish to add your chinese name to AUTHORS
12:47 svnbot6 r3149 (autrijus) -- * fix pugs_version.h generation for svk users, as suggested
12:47 svnbot6 r3149 (autrijus) --   by Forth.
12:47 svnbot6 r3150 (autrijus) -- * add Forth to AUTHORS.
12:47 Limbic_Region holy cow svnbot going nuts
12:48 Limbic_Region http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=456587 # P6 wizard game by our newewst convert eric256
12:51 Juerd What's with this www. thing?
12:51 Juerd Do you hate your hands?
12:54 Limbic_Region Juerd - heh, it is called a bookmark
12:54 Limbic_Region 1 click beats all those key strokes
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13:02 Limbic_Region hey eric256
13:03 eric256 hey
13:03 * Limbic_Region is glad to see you were easily swayed to the dark side
13:03 Limbic_Region muhahahahaha
13:03 eric256 lol
13:04 eric256 so when %.weapons (where weapons is a hash) should pass if $_ is a key in %.weapons?  that seems to be what juerd is saying
13:07 nothingmuch ingy: spoon revision r2148 seems to have broken Kwiki::Installer
13:11 * kungfuftr wonders if there is a nice way of doing chained accessors in perl6
13:12 eric256 what do you mean?
13:12 iblech kungfuftr: given $obj { .foo = 3; say .bar; .baz = 42 }   (assuming the current ". without explicit invocant" semantics)
13:14 kungfuftr given My::Class->new() { .bar("hehe"); .foo("haha"); .baz("hoho"); } ?
13:15 eric256 My::Class->new(:bar<hehe>, :foo<haha>, :baz<hoho>)  would also work (i'm just playing with the quoteing ;)
13:15 iblech if you s/My::Class->new/My::Class.new/, then, yes
13:17 eric256 that -> to . is going to get me forever....the . to ~ works just fine for me though, ~ is actualy a lot nicer. ;)
13:19 stevan eric256++ # nice game :)
13:20 Juerd Limbic_Region: You probably typed it once in your life at least.
13:20 stevan Limbic_Region++ # for getting eric256 to come over
13:20 stevan Juerd: I always do www :)
13:20 kungfuftr eric256: does that do modification on the attribute, or actually call the mutator/accessor?
13:20 Juerd eric256: Re Any~~Hash, yes, that does %Hash.exists($Any)
13:21 eric256 hey juerd...that doesn't seem to be working in Pugs yet then
13:21 iblech kungfuftr: I *assume* the accessors/mutators are called. I'm actually pretty sure of thart
13:21 Juerd eric256: t/ :)
13:22 eric256 and the givens work. but I currently have to put $_. instead of just .
13:22 Juerd Which is short for: "it would be really nice&great of you if you would want to write a test for that, and commit it under a sensible name somewhere in pugs' t/ directory hierarchy."
13:23 eric256 yea i guessed as much...me and when tests seem to be friends already anyhow
13:23 eric256 lol
13:23 Juerd That's terrific :)
13:23 eric256 not sure how to test for the given $object { .method } though....so if someone else would like to right those tests! ;)
13:24 Juerd Write a simple class, with one method that returns a true value
13:24 Juerd Then given $o { ok(.method, "...") }
13:24 Khisanth iblech: btw, mklivecd.pl seems to have slight bug, --help prints the help text twice
13:24 Juerd If .method is a parse error, use eval
13:25 Juerd given class { method foo { 1 } } { ok(.foo, "...") }
13:25 Juerd But perhaps that's stretching it too far :)
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13:26 iblech Khisanth: Ah, thanks... I'm not at my development computer ATM, but will fix it when I get home
13:26 iblech eric256: FWIW, I like that I've to put "$_." in front of it, because then we can leave off the $self in methods
13:26 Khisanth at first I thought I was having a memory problem :)
13:27 iblech eric256: But Larry's decision of this week is that ".method" always calls $_.method
13:27 iblech (and not $?SELF.method)
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13:27 eric256 ahh but pugs is still looking for $?SELF ...the error makes much more sense now..
13:28 jhorwitz autrijus: ping
13:29 Juerd iblech: Current .default is $_.default
13:29 Juerd Oh, you said so yoursellf to
13:29 Juerd Something's wrong with ths keyboard
13:29 iblech ?quit Shutting down svnbot6 for a minute to integrate the karma thing of today
13:29 svnbot6 has quit IRC ("Shutting down svnbot6 for a minute to integrate the karma thing of today")
13:29 Juerd s/yoursellf to/yourself too/
13:30 Juerd iblech: Please make it understand all bracketed forms
13:30 svnbot6 has joined #perl6
13:30 Juerd iblech: ''++ ""++ <>++ []++ {}++ ()++
13:30 Juerd iblech: Perhaps even q//++ :)
13:30 autrijus jhorwitz: pong
13:31 Juerd iblech: Or .++, and find a matching . somewhere on its left
13:31 ajs so what's the karma thing? I've seen people putting plusplus after names, but had no idea why
13:31 Juerd ajs: It's hard to explain
13:31 autrijus Juerd: as implemented, .default in pugs is $?SELF.default, btw.
13:31 autrijus Juerd: I forgot what the consensus was.
13:31 jhorwitz autrijus: thx for p6-izing my system() change.  i often forget that p6 != p5.  ;-)
13:32 Juerd autrijus: That's currently wrong then
13:32 autrijus jhorwitz: that's fine :)
13:32 Juerd ajs: (something I like)++ (something I dislike)--
13:32 autrijus Juerd: so what was the resolution vs .default and $.foo ?
13:32 Juerd ajs: (something I like)++  # reason for liking it
13:32 iblech Juerd: No, the thing I referred to was that the author name is always displayed as "nick++". This was because of a svn checking earlier today
13:32 Juerd autrijus: $_.default, $.foo works on $self
13:32 Juerd iblech: oh
13:33 autrijus and how do I access to the implicit self?
13:33 autrijus I used $?SELF because I need something like that
13:33 iblech autrijus: And &.method always calls $?SELF.method, IIRC
13:33 ajs Juerd: oh ok, so it's just a social convention, and has nothing to do with anything automatic?
13:33 Juerd autrijus: IIRC, $?SELF.method and ^method
13:33 autrijus iblech: you need the ()
13:33 Juerd ajs: It's a social convention, that can exist because it's actually counted in some channels
13:33 autrijus Juerd: is the ^ accepted?
13:33 Juerd ajs: But the counters are meaningless
13:33 Juerd autrijus: I'm not sure
13:33 iblech autrijus: er, yes
13:33 Juerd autrijus: I think so
13:34 iblech ^ is not in the synopsis, last I checked
13:34 Juerd synopses lag too much :(
13:34 iblech yes...
13:34 Juerd karma for autrijus
13:34 jabbot Juerd: for autrijus  has neutral karma
13:34 Juerd Either the bot is broken, or the bot is broken.
13:35 osfameron karma autrijus
13:35 jabbot osfameron: autrijus has karma of 146
13:35 Juerd ORRR... it thinks the whitespace was significant
13:35 Juerd Which would really suck :)
13:35 osfameron (for autrijus)++
13:35 osfameron karma for autrijus
13:35 jabbot osfameron: for autrijus has karma of 1
13:35 Juerd karma for autrijus
13:35 jabbot Juerd: for autrijus has karma of 1
13:35 Juerd Hm
13:35 Juerd That's un#perlish!
13:35 eric256 committed another test ;)
13:35 * Juerd is used to purl
13:35 Juerd eric256++
13:36 ajs speaking of synopses, I've finished colating everything outstanding for S29 except the string stuff that Rod mentioned having somewhere. I have to check to see where he said that was. Next I need to review how all of these colated things relate
13:36 Qiang_ has joined #perl6
13:36 autrijus ajs++
13:37 autrijus Juerd: write tests for .foo and ^foo?
13:37 Juerd autrijus: Will do if there are none by tonight. Just got a call and now have to go fix a server
13:37 Juerd (If someone else writes them, let me know, so we don't do double work)
13:37 autrijus eric256: so your
13:37 autrijus                    .attack($enemy, $.weapons{$_});
13:37 Juerd afk
13:37 autrijus needs to say
13:37 autrijus                    ^attack($enemy, $.weapons{$_});
13:38 autrijus now
13:38 nnunley_ is now known as nnunley
13:38 autrijus because .attack would mean $choice.attack
13:38 autrijus in the given block
13:38 autrijus I fixed it for you
13:38 autrijus welcome to the quicksand of perl 6 syntax changes
13:39 eric256 lol
13:39 eric256 so ^ always means $?SELF. while . can be taken differently depending on its context but probably means $_.
13:39 autrijus yeah.
13:40 autrijus bbiab
13:40 svnbot6 r3151 (eric256++) -- Added test to make sure .method calls default to $_ not $?SELF
13:40 svnbot6 r3152 (autrijus++) -- * From Juerd:
13:40 svnbot6 r3152 (autrijus++) --     .method     # $_.method
13:40 svnbot6 r3152 (autrijus++) --     ^method     # $?SELF.method
13:40 svnbot6 r3152 (autrijus++) -- * Also fix wizard.p6 to reflect this change.
13:40 iblech I think I've to get used to this... (liked the . w/o explicit invocant meaning $?SELF.method better)
13:40 osfameron ooo, you get a ++ every time you commit !
13:42 Juerd osfameron: No, for every line in the commit message. So flood away!
13:42 osfameron heh
13:42 Juerd afk  # wish me luck
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14:11 svnbot6 r3153 (iblech++) -- Fixed mklivecd.pl to print the help only once when started with --help.
14:13 * eric256 peeks at the Pugs source and then remembers he doesn't speak/read/comprehend haskel and runs off
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14:50 wolverian eric256: no, .foo() always means $_.foo()
14:50 wolverian (by the way, ^foo and $^foo clash somewhat, to me. I wonder if that is a problem.)
14:50 pmichaud actually, isn't this still under discussion?
14:50 pmichaud or did that get decided?
14:51 * eric256 begins to wonder if anything is truly decided yet. ;)
14:51 wolverian pmichaud: well, yes, but if we're going with ^, that's the only useful behaviour. (that was re: autrijus and eric about ^ vs .)
14:51 eric256 what would $^ bee?
14:51 PerlJam eric256: an error
14:51 PerlJam :-)
14:51 eric256 i meant in his $^foo example.
14:51 PerlJam eric256: it's one of the implicit parameters
14:52 wolverian eric256: @array.sort:{ $^a <=> $^b }; # $^a is @_[0], $^b is @_[1] (alphabetic order)
14:52 eric256 and soo $^foo would be???? what?
14:52 eric256 lol
14:52 PerlJam @reds = map { $^a ~~ 'red' } @colors   is the same as if you'd used $_ instead of $^a
14:53 eric256 ohh... /me slaps head
14:53 PerlJam wolverian: s/alphabetic/unibetic/
14:53 wolverian PerlJam: right. :)
14:53 wolverian also, is $_ aliased to @_[0], and if so, when?
14:53 eric256 you just mean $^{something or other}. it seems $^a and ^a are different enough not to conflict
14:54 wolverian I guess. it just seems $.foo might be then a property on $_, and $^foo a property on $?SELF :)
14:56 PerlJam pmichaud: And I think that Larry had a strongish leaning in one direction regarding the meaning of .foo() but I don't remember what that direction was (I think it was a wolverian said though)
14:57 wolverian I think the last message from larry in that thread was that .foo() would always mean $_.foo() and we should find some other character to mean $SELF
14:57 wolverian I don't remember him picking one.
14:57 pmichaud I don't think one has been picked yet
14:57 wolverian that's good.
14:57 wolverian I don't like ^.
14:58 PerlJam I know!  Let's use colon!  :-)
14:58 PerlJam or *  :)
14:58 wolverian or #
14:58 PerlJam or `
14:58 pmichaud pj:  actually, damian proposed colon :-)
14:59 pmichaud pj: but it completely destroyed the option-pair syntax
14:59 wolverian and calling a private method on self would be '::foo'
14:59 wolverian which is a type
15:00 drbean Miyazawa notes pugs and parrot are hooked up at http://blog.bulknews.net/mt/archives/001696.html
15:01 PerlJam I wonder if we could use make one of these work (to mean $SELF.foo()) :    ,foo()  ;foo() 'foo()
15:01 pmichaud , is bad
15:01 pmichaud semi is bad
15:01 PerlJam They're all bad!
15:01 pmichaud $a + ,foo()  
15:01 pmichaud or even
15:01 pmichaud [ 1, 2, ,foo(), 3 ]
15:01 PerlJam But without going unicode I don't see much good.
15:02 pmichaud at some point it just makes better sense to declare invocants as $o  and then use $o.foo()
15:03 PerlJam personally, I'm probably going to go with making $o always be $SELF or something  $o.foo() isn't a hardship.
15:03 PerlJam wow
15:03 PerlJam great minds *do* think alike
15:03 PerlJam :-)
15:03 _metaperl has joined #perl6
15:03 PerlJam pm: besides that's what I tend to do in perl5 now.  $o is the object, $c is the class
15:04 pmichaud well, larry has proposed   o.foo() and c.foo()   a couple of times, so $o and $c aren't a stretch
15:05 Shachaf has joined #perl6
15:06 PerlJam I'm not so sure o.foo() would interpolate in double quotish strings, while $o.foo() certainly would
15:06 saorge_ has joined #perl6
15:07 PerlJam Those sigils are quite useful
15:08 pmichaud argggh, luke is misreading my rule also ... :-|
15:11 eric256 could do ..foo()  ;)
15:11 pmichaud looks a lot like  1..foo()  :-)
15:11 PerlJam eric256: that would work too.  we'd need a whitespace rule to make sure that it didn't get confused with rnages
15:12 pmichaud I dunno if a whitespace rule is needed there, since ..foo()  occurs when a term is expected while .. occurs where an operator is expected
15:13 eric256 .-foo ? two character codes give a lot more options .= .-
15:13 pmichaud unfortunately, .. reminds me of the parent directory in filesystem paths.   So, how about   ./foo()  for the invocant?  ;-)
15:13 Juerd rehi!
15:13 eric256 was that a name?
15:13 Juerd Has consensus re ^foo and .foo changed since 2 hours ago?
15:14 PerlJam eric256: two chars is fine but if we have to shift we might as well just use $o.foo()
15:14 Juerd pmichaud: Not bad. I mean that.
15:14 PerlJam so that limits the chars a bit
15:14 * pmichaud points out that $o.foo() is three chars.
15:14 Juerd pmichaud: ./pugs is pugs in the current directory -- classes can be seen as directories
15:14 Juerd pmichaud: But then ../method must call in the super class. This may just work.
15:14 pmichaud I wasn't here two hours ago, what was the consensus on ^foo and .foo ?
15:15 Juerd pmichaud: .foo is $_.foo, ^foo is $?SELF.foo
15:15 Juerd I promised autrijus to write tests
15:15 pmichaud do we run into a conflict with &infix:<^>  ?
15:15 Juerd But I saw you discussing things alike, so I thought I'd inquire before writing them
15:15 PerlJam pmichaud: another whitespace rule  :)
15:15 Juerd pmichaud: I wouldn't know how
15:16 pmichaud i dunno either, I'm just askin :-)
15:16 Juerd PerlJam: termies don't clash with oppies
15:16 PerlJam $foo^^bar()  looks a wee odd
15:16 Juerd PerlJam: That's $foo xor bar anyway.
15:16 pmichaud pj: that would be  $foo ^^ bar()
15:16 PerlJam oh right.
15:17 PerlJam $foo^^^bar() then  :)
15:17 Juerd PerlJam: Now $foo^^^bar() looks odd. But how often do you expect that'll happen? :)
15:17 xinming has joined #perl6
15:17 Juerd Not to mention $foo^^+^^bar()
15:17 Juerd Which is $foo ^^ +^ ^bar()
15:17 Juerd I see new opportunities for the obfu people.
15:18 Juerd And no practical  limitation whatsoever.
15:18 PerlJam Juerd: add hypers and we're all line noisy
15:18 Juerd Okay, then I now write tests
15:18 Juerd After updating and recompiling.
15:19 PerlJam I think I'll just stick with $o.foo()
15:19 Odin-LAP What was that six-character operator someone used ... [»+^«]?
15:20 eric256 wasn't the concern with ^foo that attribute access would then be $^foo which is taken?
15:21 PerlJam eric256: attributes of  the current object will still be $.foo and $:foo
15:21 Juerd Odin-LAP: If you count >> as 2 characters, it's more :)
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15:22 PerlJam Juerd: I call that operator "reduction to madness"
15:22 Odin-LAP Juerd: Well, I don't. ;)
15:22 wolverian eric256: my concern is that they look similar, that's all.
15:22 eric256 thats confusing.  .foo is $_.foo but $.foo is $SELF.foo
15:22 Juerd Odin-LAP: I have no idea how to interpret a reducing >><< though.
15:22 Juerd Odin-LAP: Unless it's used on a list of arrays. Hm, funny.
15:23 Juerd Still, too confusing :)
15:23 Odin-LAP It's possible ... but a bit mindboggling.
15:23 Juerd eric256: Yes, but $ is not .
15:23 Juerd eric256: :foo is also not $?SELF:foo or $:foo
15:24 * eric256 is now very confused. lol
15:24 Juerd eric256: $:foo is a private attribute
15:24 Juerd eric256: $.foo is public
15:24 Juerd eric256: :foo is a pair
15:24 Juerd eric256: .foo is $_.foo
15:25 Juerd Don't look for half consistencies
15:25 Odin-LAP Ooooo. Learning Perl6 will be a true joy for newbies. ;)
15:25 eric256 okay.i think i'm gonna need a book ;)
15:26 Juerd Hm
15:26 Juerd Perhaps it's time for a series of Perl 6 articles
15:26 Juerd "All uses of ... the colon"
15:26 wolverian and .:foo is a private method call
15:26 Juerd "All uses of ... the dot"
15:26 Juerd "All uses of ... the circumflex"
15:26 eric256 someone should start a quick reference for Perl6
15:26 knewt_ has joined #perl6
15:26 Juerd eric256: I'll try to whip something up
15:26 Odin-LAP Juerd: Didn't you have one at some point?
15:26 Juerd eric256: It'll be a hell of a lot more complex than perlcheat though :)
15:27 Juerd Odin-LAP: Several
15:27 ninereasons has joined #perl6
15:27 Odin-LAP Heeh. A Perl6 "cheat sheet" would fit on ... say, A0?
15:27 Odin-LAP Maybe A1. If we're lucky.
15:27 knewt has quit IRC (Nick collision from services.)
15:27 pmichaud with small enough type it'll fit anywhere :-)
15:27 knewt_ is now known as knewt
15:28 pmichaud I bet I can fit it on a DVD :-)
15:28 Odin-LAP pmichaud: Sure. I'm thinking of something legible, of course.
15:28 Juerd Shall we write a quickref set together?
15:28 Juerd In pugs' svn repo?
15:28 Juerd wiki-style?
15:28 Juerd (but plain text!)
15:29 Juerd All in the form of:
15:29 Juerd code example         # what it does
15:29 Juerd like:
15:29 Juerd .method           # shorthand for $_.method
15:34 eric256 sounds like a plan juerd
15:34 eric256 might need a shortcut reference
15:36 pmichaud btw, juerd, that is one mean nasty rule expression you posted yesterday :-)
15:36 eric256 and then a type reference one, and a class reference one....pretty soon you'll need a quick reference quick reference to find the right quick reference. ;)
15:37 Juerd pmichaud: It's very straight forward! No embedded code, even! :)
15:37 pmichaud Juerd: well, the problem is that it's not getting past the rule compiler
15:37 Juerd pmichaud: It works very well in Perl 5
15:37 Juerd pmichaud: Ruby even refuses to compile a regex this big :)
15:37 pmichaud i'm not sure why yet -- I'm going to have to break it down and take a look at it piecemeal to find out where it's failing
15:38 castaway has joined #perl6
15:38 Juerd pmichaud: You can play with matrix.p6 to generate your own
15:38 Juerd pmichaud: Look at the outer build_re call. Isolate that and call it once instead of 25 times, and you get one part instead of 25... :)
15:39 Juerd pmichaud: Reduce the todo argument, and you get a much shorter (exponentially) rule as a result
15:39 Juerd pmichaud: This will allow you to build up to the critical point
15:39 Juerd It's probably smarter to use matrix.p6 to generate the rule though
15:39 Juerd That'll save you hours :)
15:39 Juerd Eh
15:39 Juerd matrix.p5
15:40 PerlJam What does matrix.p[56] do exactly?
15:40 PerlJam (besides generate a pge-breaking re)
15:43 Juerd Use the rule against words, to find matching candidates
15:43 Juerd Then sort those in order of score, based on a simple scoring table
15:59 Juerd There's now pugs/docs/quickref
15:59 svnbot6 r3154 (Juerd++) -- First steps for a set of cheat sheets. It's a wiki, people, so contribute! :)
15:59 svnbot6 r3155 (Juerd++) -- First document, far from finished. Feel free to add or correct stuff.
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16:10 broquaint Hey Corion.
16:10 Corion Hi broquaint
16:11 broquaint Have you successfully adopted S29?
16:12 Corion broquaint: Luckily not :) ajs has adopted it :)
16:12 Corion (or that's what I think we ended up last night)
16:12 Corion ... with ...
16:12 Corion I get to snipe from the sides
16:12 broquaint Nice one :)
16:13 broquaint BTW, has caller() et al been implemented yet?
16:13 Corion broquaint: Yep. $?CALLER
16:13 Corion broquaint: I think under t/magicals
16:13 broquaint But the function caller() hasn't, right?
16:14 kolibrie don't think caller() is around yet
16:15 Corion Will there be the function caller() ? I thought that $?CALLER and $?CALLER::* and $CALLER_CONTINUATION took care of it all?
16:15 Corion (I may be wrong)
16:15 broquaint There should be.
16:15 broquaint Just for a simpler way to access contextual information about the sub and its callers.
16:16 _metaperl has joined #perl6
16:16 Corion broquaint: Hmmm - aaah - yeah, a dynamic way to walk up the caller chain would be useful, true.
16:16 kolibrie S06 "The caller function"
16:16 Corion broquaint: You could implement it in Perl6 with a loop that walks up $?CALLER:: :)
16:16 Corion (or steal the code implementing it)
16:16 broquaint I'd certainly abuse ... er ... use it :)
16:16 Corion ... but I welcome tests for it :)
16:17 broquaint Do we have any perl6 functions implemented in perl6?
16:17 Corion Having something like caller() is important. Even JS has it! :)
16:17 broquaint Most of the 'functions' are in Eval.hs, right?
16:17 Corion broquaint: Unfortunately not. Well, one half-implemented "function" - the split-on-whitespace behaviour of %hash<...> is implemented as AST
16:17 Corion (which was taken from dumping a Perl6 expression)
16:17 xinming has quit IRC (Client Quit)
16:18 Corion (or was it the split-on-whitespace behaviour of @array = <...> ?)
16:19 * broquaint looks into implementing caller() ...
16:19 Corion Yay! ;)
16:22 broquaint Although there is a test for it so maybe someone got there ahead of me ...
16:22 eric256 is there a timeline/schedule somehwere?  i'm curious about when we will see class inheritance in Pugs... ;)
16:22 integral "soon"...
16:23 eric256 soon is always good
16:23 Corion eric256: There is the Pugs development plan, detailed in one of autrijus' early journals
16:23 Corion ... which explains the version number convergence, together with the features
16:23 * eric256 wanders off to search the journal then
16:23 * integral finds it amazing that he can go for 3 hours and find 10 commits
16:24 svnbot6 r3156 (ninereasons++) -- give clearer mesg to proclaim() in 'isnt'
16:24 Corion ... no timing is mentioned. But as #perl6 warps space-time, you can stick around and wait :)
16:25 eric256 what is zip? in the quick ref you have Y # zip ??
16:25 integral take N arrays.   Take the first element from array 1, ..., take the first element from array N, take the 2nd element from array 1, ... etc
16:26 broquaint It "zips" lists together i.e (1,2,3) Y (a,b,c) becomes (1,a,2,b,c,3)
16:26 integral hmm, is Y associative?
16:26 broquaint How do you mean "associative"?
16:27 integral @a Y @b Y @c == zip(@a, @b, @c) or zip(zip(@a,@b), @c); #or the same but for Right assoc
16:27 Juerd integral: It's chaining
16:27 Juerd integral: former
16:27 integral ah, neato :-)
16:27 Juerd integral: ==, eq, <, etcetera are chaining too now.
16:27 Juerd 3 < $x < 5
16:28 broquaint Everything will chain and it will be good!
16:28 Corion r3155 - http://datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html - 4909 ok, 20 failed, 695 todo # win2k, so something is weird with the newly introduced fails
16:28 broquaint Except, the things that don't.
16:28 integral yeah, I knew about hose ones.   Chainign is a really neat feature
16:28 integral I suppose = could be chaining too: $x = 5 = $y; :-P
16:28 Juerd integral: What would that mean?
16:29 integral it sets all the non-constant things to the single constant thing, or the right-most non-constant thing
16:29 Juerd Then simple $foo = $bar fails
16:29 Juerd No, let's not change =
16:29 eric256 chaining sounds cool
16:29 integral no, that's covered by the bit after the comma juerd
16:30 Corion Can somebody confirm the unexpected success in t/statements/given.t (last test) ?
16:30 broquaint Sure, just let recompile ...
16:31 Juerd integral: Oh, right, but still, = can be used as chainingly as you want already
16:31 Juerd = being right associative and returning an lvalue are both very useful.
16:31 integral sure, but you can't say: 3 = $foo;
16:31 Juerd You shouldn't want to.
16:31 integral Just think of the obfuscation value! :-P
16:31 integral sheesh, it's not a serious idea
16:32 broquaint People need to be careful with casedness in filenames as Motd.pm just collided with MOTD.pm on this windows box with case-insensitive FS wickedness.
16:33 Juerd Can't you even mount something case sensitively when you want to in win32?
16:33 broquaint I believe so, but I'm no windows guru.
16:33 Corion Juerd: No. Win32 / FAT32 / NTFS is case-preserving but case-insensitive
16:34 * broquaint points to Corion's reply ^
16:34 Juerd Corion: Yes, but if you mount any of those in linux, the result is case INsensitive
16:34 Juerd Corion: Can't windows mount ext2 or another more sane fs?
16:34 Corion Juerd: Not natively, but there are drivers for that.
16:34 eric256 corion that test fails here (rev3135)
16:34 Juerd It couldn't do this in 2000 when I stopped using it
16:35 Juerd Wonderful, how Microsoft just won't cooperator or invent
16:35 Corion Juerd: But I'd expect the drivers to map to case-preserving / case-insensitive as well, that is, to refuse to create/open foo.pl if there is foo.PL
16:35 Corion (why should they cooperate with a hippie OS?)
16:36 Juerd Because it's the only way to get rid of the hippies.
16:36 Juerd It's in MS' best interest if they would support ext2. It would cause people to dual boot more often than they switch completely
16:37 Corion Juerd: What should they dual boot to? (you seem to be missing the point - anyone who dual-boots is already lost anyway)
16:37 Juerd No
16:38 Juerd They're not lost
16:38 Juerd Well, idioligically, they're lost
16:38 Juerd But not commercially.
16:39 Corion eric256: Weird ... I'll update and rebuild then - what platform do you run? With parrot or without?
16:40 eric256 WinXP Pro no parrot ....hmmmm i've checked out rev3135, but it appears to be running 1241 agian....arg. i'm running an old one...arg
16:40 Juerd 1241? That's prehistoric.
16:40 eric256 no kidding...and i don't know where it came from, yestarday i was running on a recent build..i've got something screwy going on
16:41 Corion eric256: No, that's the svk info
16:41 Corion The svk and svn rXXXX are wildly out of sync
16:42 Corion (and currently, the svk info gets picked up while the svn info only displays in Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix I think
16:42 eric256 hmmm...so how can i make sure that the executable is the newest version?
16:43 Corion svn up && nmake clean && perl Makefile.PL && nmake
16:43 Corion :)
16:43 eric256 well i just set out on a holy crusade to delete all pugs.exe's (of which there were several)...now lets get this right...rebuilding.
16:44 eric256 nmake clean?  would that have been screwing me up? because i've never done that. ;)
16:44 Corion eric256: It should wipe all the leftovers. But if you need a make clean, most likely deleting src/ is better anyway.
16:44 Corion (and then check out again)
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16:47 eric256 corion it passes that test now... looks like someone fixed it ;)
16:48 Corion eric256: Heh ;)
16:49 * Juerd just discovered that he does want a symbolic alias for 'scalar'
16:49 Juerd Is there a special reason we can't just use $ for that?
16:50 eric256 shall i remove the :todo<bug> on that test then?  since they seem to have fixed it
16:50 Juerd eric256: If something's fixed, it's no longer todo :)
16:51 Corion eric256: Yes please
16:52 eric256 done...there is a test being run....but i don't see it in the code...and it has no label
16:52 Corion A heisentest ?
16:53 eric256 ehh?
16:54 Corion A test that gets run only if you don't look at it :)
16:54 eric256 lol
16:55 zuulvin_ has joined #perl6
16:57 eric256 hmm... test passes and yet my game code still failes....
16:57 rafl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
16:57 svnbot6 r3157 (eric256++) -- un-todod a test. '.' shortcut in given works now
16:57 rafl has joined #perl6
17:00 broquaint The last test of t/statements/given.t succeeds here, Corion, although a bunch of others fail.
17:00 Corion broquaint: Yeah. I wonder what's up with the breakage, as "svn blame" didn't tell (me)
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17:02 broquaint Although all the failed tests are marked as TODO (so why aren't they called as TODO tests?), so I guess that makes sense.
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17:03 eric256 if <code>$_.pass<a> = 1</code>works inside a given then shouldn't <code>.pass<a> = 1</code> work as well?
17:03 eric256 hmmm code tags arn't realy usefull here. lol
17:03 pmichaud only if $_.pass is rw, perhaps?
17:04 eric256 it is rw.
17:06 eric256 looks like every class definition is creating a test...?
17:07 eric256 lol. i'd called my temp attribute pass...which i'm guessing is a test sub?  it was in double qoutes and getting interpolated...
17:07 svnbot6 r3158 (Stevan++) -- Perl::MetaModel - added document about Meta-Meta-Classes in an attempt to clarify the subject for myself, ... and purge these demons from my mindsvn status! :)
17:09 PerlJam pm:  PGE doesn't yet do <<alpha>+<digit>> does it?
17:09 pmichaud no, not yet, and based on Larry's last post it may end up being <+alpha+digit>
17:09 pmichaud (at least I hope it is)
17:09 PerlJam Excellent.
17:09 pmichaud but you can always do \w for now if you don't mind underscores :)
17:10 PerlJam Is the leading <[-+]> required?
17:10 pmichaud yes, except with <[xyz]>
17:10 PerlJam so all character classy things start with <[, <- or <+  
17:10 pmichaud well, yes and now
17:10 pmichaud now
17:11 pmichaud no
17:11 pmichaud (argh)
17:11 pmichaud <alpha>  will still exist, but it's a capturing subrule
17:11 pmichaud so  <alpha>+   can be a bit expensive on the captures :)
17:11 PerlJam right, the CC is only on indirect
17:12 pmichaud <+alpha> will be calling a subrule as if it's a CC
17:12 PerlJam Hrm.
17:12 pmichaud and for things like alpha, digit, upper, lower, etc.,  PGE can optimize them whenever there's no overriding subrule in the scope
17:12 PerlJam How does that play with rule foo { a*b }  ... m/<+alpha+foo>/  ?
17:13 pmichaud see Larry's post:   "But then it's not entirely clear how character class set theory works.          Another thing we have to work out."
17:14 pmichaud also:
17:14 cognominal how do I access the trait of a function?
17:14 pmichaud Hmm, well, positive matches can be defined to traverse whatever the
17:14 pmichaud longest sequence matched is, even if it's actually multiple characters
17:14 pmichaud by some reckoning or other.
17:14 pmichaud (from Larry's post)
17:19 cognominal do you know the API to get at the value of a trait?
17:19 svnbot6 r3159 (eric256++) -- added test for .attribute access to hash
17:21 * eric256 wanders off to find food
17:45 * Limbic_Region needs to put his computer together as he is getting highspeed internet tomorrow (along with VoIP phone and digital cable)
17:45 svnbot6 r3160 (ninereasons++) -- add highlighting for ATTN FIXME, etc, in POD and comments.
17:45 Limbic_Region (consolidated services and bills) plus plus
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17:49 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
17:52 cognominal I ask my question again because I have not yet found an answer in the synopsis: is there an API for trait/property getter/setter?
17:52 stevan autrijus: if you are around,.. I found (what I hope is) a small bug
17:52 stevan pugs -e 'class Foo::Bar { method baz returns Foo::Bar { Foo::Bar.new() } }'
17:53 stevan it seems to choke on the C<returns Foo::Bar> part
17:55 ajs I don't think it groks the :: notation there. Make the class Foo, and it works
17:55 stevan ajs: yes, but I need the :: notation :)
17:55 ajs cognominal: not sure
17:56 ajs stevan: oh, well then, that's broken :-)
17:58 ajs cognominal: I never fully grokked traits in A/S12...
18:00 cognominal sent a mail to p6l ml...
18:01 ajs cognominal: Ok, here's my theory: A trait is a role, applied by the use of either a property or trait verb. Thus, you should be able to do normal "role stuff" to sense its taint
18:02 ajs cognominal: that includes "$obj ~~ sometrait"
18:02 ajs cognominal: no, I'm wrong. That includes "?($obj does sometrait)
18:02 ajs "
18:03 ajs I think... ask p6l ;-)
18:05 ajs Ah, but your p6l mail is a different question. You can apply traits without an eval. Just remove the eval and quotes from your example and it should work fine.
18:05 svnbot6 r3161 (Juerd++) -- quickref/op: near completion; please sanity-check
18:09 revdiablo anybody have any idea why examples/phonewords.p6 is so slow? it takes 25 minutes to complete, compared to 5 seconds in perl5... is that just standard pugs slowness, or is something weird going on?
18:10 Juerd revdiablo: Because pugs is just very slow, and perl 5 is just very fast
18:10 autrijus that's right!
18:10 autrijus and if you write .{} codegen for parrot it will be faster :)
18:10 Juerd revdiablo: I have a script that finishes within a second in perl 5, but takes half an hour in pugs. It's something thatfor now, we must learn to live with
18:10 svnbot6 r3162 (ninereasons++) -- add highlighting for '=for COMMENT' region
18:10 svnbot6 r3163 (autrijus++) -- * wikification! :)
18:11 elmex has joined #perl6
18:11 autrijus Juerd++ # damn good idea, that quickref
18:11 Juerd Thank you
18:11 Juerd Not entirely my idea
18:11 Juerd Well, not today
18:11 Juerd I had parts of op around already though
18:12 revdiablo Juerd: yeah, what I figured. but thought I'd check to make sure. maybe there's something that sticks out as slowing it down a lot
18:13 autrijus Juerd: I kwidified it; the good thing is that it still needs no escaping :)
18:13 autrijus the indent makes it easier on my eyes
18:13 Juerd I'm not entirely happy with that
18:13 Juerd But okay.
18:14 autrijus thanks for your understanding. I don't quite care about how to mark the headings... =head2 NAME or [NAME] also works for me
18:14 autrijus I just want it somewhat indented :)
18:14 Juerd That's the thing that bothers me
18:14 autrijus how does it bother you?
18:15 Juerd But now that I see this, I do find it easier to read.
18:15 autrijus oh. :)
18:15 Juerd It bothers me because it eats away 4 characters of my terminal
18:15 Juerd I'm un-kwidding it though
18:15 autrijus that's fine
18:15 svnbot6 r3164 (autrijus++) -- * oops, leftover
18:15 Juerd The risk of non-verbatim paragraphs is too high
18:15 autrijus just kill the "== "
18:16 autrijus stevan: fixing your bug
18:17 ajs I'm concerned about type "Char"... I think type conversion overhead is going to be stunningly awful
18:23 autrijus where is this "Char" type?
18:23 svnbot6 r3165 (autrijus++) -- * UI cleanup on wizard.p6
18:23 svnbot6 r3166 (Juerd++) -- unkwid (s/^== //, .=lcfirst for @headings)
18:23 svnbot6 r3167 (autrijus++) -- * Stevan reported that `returns Foo::Bar` didn't work. Fixed.
18:23 svnbot6 r3168 (ninereasons++) -- better regexp for '=for COMMENT'
18:23 svnbot6 r3169 (Juerd++) -- add reduce meta-op to quickref/op
18:23 svnbot6 r3170 (Juerd++) -- update README
18:25 pmichaud has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
18:26 gaal is $_ supposed to be ro in map?
18:26 gaal ./pugs -e 'my @a = <123>;my @b = map {$_+=1} @a'
18:26 gaal Error: Can't modify constant item: VNum 124.0
18:26 gaal (funny error message, too.)
18:27 gaal i meant: @a = <1 2 3>  :-)
18:30 eric256 you can't modify the original @a array so i would assume it is r and not rw
18:30 eric256 pugs -e "my @a = <1 2 3>;my @b = map {$_+1} @a;print @b.perl"
18:30 eric256 behaves well
18:30 gaal compare with for (@a) { $_ ++ }
18:31 gaal "autoextracted" $_ in for is rw by default.
18:31 gaal i think it sohuld be in map too
18:31 gaal or at least, is copy.
18:32 gaal there has to be a nice way to avoid the map { s/// } p5 pitfall...
18:32 eric256 hmm . dunno. when would you use map like that though?  i mean most times you want to modify wouldn't you use for instead?
18:32 * autrijus sides with eric256 :)
18:33 gaal is copy at least could be nice. if there's a way to make that COW... that's grand.
18:34 autrijus I've just heard that in parrot, cloning a string is guaranteed a O(1) operation :)
18:34 eric256 i see. copy would be slow but copy on write would only slow it down if they actualy modify it?  what was the map { s///} pitfall you where refering too
18:35 eric256 copy can take longer than O(1)?
18:35 gaal @basenames = { s,.*/,, } @pathnames
18:35 svnbot6 r3171 (ninereasons++) -- clear screen
18:35 gaal that's a bug in p5
18:36 gaal because you wanted to return the modified $_, not the return value of the s///, whcih is 1 or 0
18:39 ajs hmmm... the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a gcc back-end ;)
18:39 ninereasons (although karma (both + and -) messes with my head and I try to ignore it) someone might want to know that svnbot is not granting karma as she seems to think she is
18:40 eric256 that isn't a bug. that is just a bad side effect of s/// returning the number of values replaced.
18:40 gaal it's not a bug in perl5, of course. it's a user pitfall.
18:43 gaal ah, punctuation. above i meant to write: "that's a bug, in p5" :)
18:45 eric256 either way that is a problem you have with the semantics of s/// not map, unless you want map to pass in a copy and place the final value of that copy in  the new array, which i don't think is going to happen. ;)
18:45 svnbot6 r3172 (gaal++) -- cleanup temporary files in tests; add some more nonces
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18:49 gaal assuming for a moment that s/// returns the substituted value, why not?
18:50 eric256 why not what? if s/// returns the substituted value then map does what you want now.   i think we lost each other somewhere
18:53 gaal you can't s/// on $_ now.
18:54 gaal (in a map that is.)
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18:56 svnbot6 r3173 (ninereasons++) -- sp
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18:58 eric256 ohh. gotcha.  i was confused because that is unrelated to your s/// 'bug' in p5....lines got crossed
19:01 Juerd gaal: I have asked for non-mutating s/// several times. Never really got a useful answer.
19:01 gaal btw: map { s/// } is not something i advocate or anything. it's just that from observing people for a while i know it does tend to happen a lot. s/// is very often better done as m// anyway.
19:01 svnbot6 r3174 (iblech++) -- * EOL at EOF added to unlink.t.
19:01 svnbot6 r3174 (iblech++) -- * Usual svn properties added to docs/quickref, ext/Tree, and examples/.
19:01 Juerd gaal: s/// has little to do with boolean stuff, so I'd say break with ~~, and make s a method, from which flow . for non-mutating and .= for mutating
19:02 eric256 well the current ro $_ makes s/// an error. ;)
19:02 gaal Juerd, what do you think about 'is copy' map?
19:02 Juerd eric256: map -> $_ is rw { ... }, @foo
19:02 Juerd gaal: possible but inefficient.
19:03 eric256 is map functioning correctly in Pugs? and is it suppose to flatten to a string in some cases?
19:03 Juerd Does anyone know what the correct behaviour is? Are there tests?
19:03 Juerd Methods and functions need specification badly
19:04 gaal hmm, "old" note by larry on this. http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=435596
19:05 gaal i don't understand the mechanism of mutator methods mentioned there though.
19:05 eric256 me likes the ability to do (1..10).map:{$_+1}.join(",");
19:05 eric256 now that is OO DWIM goodness
19:05 gaal (it's a nice perlmonks thread btw, if you don't know it.)
19:07 gaal imagining it would work, wouldn't (1..10).map:{$_++}.join(",") look as natural?
19:07 cognominal does someone remember how to get french quotes in emacs?
19:07 gaal (is it ruby that doesn't have ++ for ideological reasons?)
19:08 gaal cog, ^k >>  in vi, sorry :/
19:08 broquaint_ has joined #perl6
19:09 Limbic_Region stevan ping
19:12 saorge_ has joined #perl6
19:12 cognominal arf, that was ~< in iso-accent-mode.
19:12 saorge has joined #perl6
19:15 gaal can't 'given' be an rvalue? $res = given $x { ... }
19:16 PerlJam gaal: it should be able to function as an rvalue.
19:17 gaal this parsefails. ./pugs -e 'my $x = given 1 { when /1/ { "asdfadsf" }; when 2 {"aa"}; }'
19:19 PerlJam oh, pugs has the correct behavior.
19:19 PerlJam from S04 "Statement-level constructs may start only where the parser is expecting the start of a statement. To embed a statement in an expression you must use something like do {...} or try {...}"
19:19 PerlJam and given is a statement-level construct
19:19 gaal hmm.
19:19 gaal thanks,
19:19 gaal i'll go with that.
19:20 gaal do isn't implemented yet though. :)
19:20 gaal and rvalue try doesn't seem to work.
19:21 * Juerd sighs at perlmonks
19:21 Juerd I made the same mistake the what, third time now?
19:21 autrijus Juerd: hm?
19:21 Limbic_Region which mistake is that?
19:21 * Juerd assumed open mindedness
19:21 Juerd I assumed that a bare idea, without implementation details, could lead to a useful discussion and perhaps implementation
19:21 PerlJam Juerd: surely the opposite assumption is the safe one for humans in general
19:22 PerlJam (and perlmonks is a nice collection of general humans)
19:22 Juerd As L~R said in his pugs advocacy, planting the seed can often be fruitful
19:22 broquaint has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:22 Juerd But not on PM, not when you "touch" the site. Not when you suggest a feature there. It just can't happen. PM is too much like p5p in that respect.
19:23 Limbic_Region Juerd - a term I have used with management is "jedi mind trick", making someone believe what you want to happen is their idea
19:23 Juerd I'm not good at mind tricks
19:24 Juerd I absolutely hate social politics, especially when people activate unnecessary force fields
19:24 PerlJam Limbic_Region++ that's exactly how it has to happen IMHO
19:24 svnbot6 r3175 (ninereasons++) -- move motd
19:25 Juerd p6l is a positive contrast, as is this channel
19:25 Juerd Here, an idea can enter at any time, and it is discussed and often quickly specced and sometimes even implemented
19:25 * Limbic_Region mostly agrees with Juerd's sentiment
19:26 Limbic_Region WRT site changes at the Monastery
19:26 PerlJam Juerd: time to build perl6monks where discussions like that can happen!  ;)
19:26 Juerd I'm too upset right now (upset because I was wrong believing things could have had changed), so I'm going to take a walk
19:26 Juerd afk
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19:32 nmcfarl /msg NickServ IDENTIFY nmcfarl
19:33 eric256 opps
19:33 eric256 you might want to change that password now
19:33 nmcfarl yeppers
19:33 nmcfarl it needed to go any how
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19:36 Corion has joined #perl6
19:36 gaal has there been a decision on how qx// is spelled now?
19:38 broquaint_ has joined #perl6
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19:38 svnbot6 r3176 (iblech++) -- Usual svn properties added to examples/advocacy, too.
19:40 * eric256 curses at his keyboard...then realizes he set a book on a second keyboard attatched to the same system....teach me to screw around in the future
19:40 gaal ouch! getting many undef references (s2gb5_slow) with a simple pugscc attempt on linux. parrot-0.2.0, but i'm actually using the pugs backend.
19:41 Corion gaal: I think it's rx:P5//
19:41 Corion err - I was thinking of qr// obviously
19:41 Corion It's still spelled system<> :)
19:41 gaal :)
19:43 gaal eval_perl5 ( use Test::Output; output_from($cmd) }, yeah.
19:44 gaal oh, the parrot backend works ok.
19:45 * Limbic_Region wonders what preverse thing gaal is using the backend of a parrot for
19:45 * Limbic_Region ducks
19:45 gaal wow, i've been outsillied!
19:45 gaal this calls for a drink :)
19:46 Limbic_Region it is Friday afterall
19:46 gaal yeah
19:46 eric256 so by compliing parrot i get rules support?
19:47 kolibrie yeppers
19:47 eric256 but there is no Makefile.PL .... /me searches for readme
19:47 Limbic_Region with a couple of options - linking against the lib or the external executable
19:48 gaal perl Configure.pl
19:48 Limbic_Region eric256 - perl Configure.pl <options>; make; make test; etc
19:48 fagzal has joined #perl6
19:48 Limbic_Region gaal was faster on the keys
19:48 gaal if rules work well i'll take a stab at porting this, heh heh. http://www.forum2.org/gaal/lj/fool-pretty.pl
19:48 fagzal hail
19:48 Limbic_Region salutations
19:48 eric256 what options would i want?
19:49 Corion Hmmm - taking a script from stdin seems broken currently...
19:49 kolibrie eric256: I didn't use any options, and mine works great...
19:49 fagzal Erm... anybody could tell me where I can find some info on "what's going to be implemented in Pugs approximately when" :-) Actually I tried my $a = "a" _ "b"; and it did not work out ;-)
19:49 gaal Corion, as does interactive mode on windows
19:49 gaal it's because of that terminal thing, remember?
19:49 Corion gaal: Hmmm. Why that?
19:49 Corion What terminal thing?
19:49 eric256 string concatenation is now ~ not _
19:50 Limbic_Region eric256 - you might want some of the optimization options but for now just get it to work
19:50 Limbic_Region was string concatenation ever _ ?
19:50 fagzal eric256: ouch... I was looking at some old docs then :-/ Sorry 'bout that.
19:50 eric256 it was in the docs. it still is in one set of docs
19:50 Limbic_Region fagzal - see http://dev.perl.org/perl6
19:50 gaal Corion: hIsTerminalDevice lies, on msys at least.
19:50 Limbic_Region or better yet - install Perl6::Bible
19:50 Corion gaal: Ah. Ugh.
19:51 gaal Corion, so Main.hs:88 doesn't do the right thing.
19:51 eric256 limbic those installed ones wont stay up to date though
19:51 Corion So we'll have to look if we can ask the Win32 API instead.
19:51 Limbic_Region eri256 - assuming you keep them up to date they will
19:51 gaal personlally i'm not sure interactive mode shoudl start w/o params.... but that's just me.
19:51 fagzal Thanx! I'll RTFM now :-)
19:51 Limbic_Region ingy makes a new release everytime one changes (or so he lead me to believe)
19:52 * eric256 wonders if all the warnings going by should worry him..
19:52 gaal brb
19:52 Corion gaal: But GHCi does that, so Pugs does too.
19:52 gaal so offer a pugsi
19:52 gaal brb really
19:53 eric256 beigns make test and sees yet more warnings...
19:53 Limbic_Region eric256 - I wouldn't be worried too much - parrot compiles quite noisily
19:53 Limbic_Region hmmm - I don't remember make test being to squaky though
19:54 eric256 soo its done....but i don't see an exe or anything...how do i test it?
19:54 Corion gaal: Pugsi sounds cute
19:54 fagzal has left "There passes fagzal"
19:54 Limbic_Region eric256 - you compiled Parrot on windows using which compiler?
19:55 svnbot6 r3177 (iblech++) -- Added a (sucessful :)) test testing state() inside the substitution part of
19:55 svnbot6 r3177 (iblech++) -- regular expressions.
19:55 * Limbic_Region only ever did Parrot on Cygwin for Win32
19:55 eric256 by compiled....i just did perl Config.pl....then nmake, then nmake test
19:55 gaal you can call it pigs too, if you like.
19:55 eric256 i haven't done anything else besides download it....and i have VC++ installed.
19:56 stevan autrijus++ # for fixing my returns Foo::Bar problem :)
19:56 Limbic_Region *shrug* - I would have expected a parrot.exe to end up in the directory you did the nmake in
19:56 stevan Limbic_Region: pong
19:56 gaal eric, cool! it didn't workforme earlier today :(
19:56 eric256 not sure thats a reason to celebrate! lol.
19:57 gaal well i didn't use msvc
19:57 eric256 just once i would like these things to say "Completed succefully" or even something spelled right
19:57 Limbic_Region gaal - mingw?
19:57 eric256 i dunno if i used it or not. it never asked
19:57 autrijus pugs> say do { if 1 { 3 } else { 4 } }
19:57 autrijus 3
19:57 gaal l~r, yes, also tried multi
19:57 autrijus (r3178)
19:57 gaal s/multi/cygwin/
19:57 gaal eric, it figured it all out from whatever perl you used.
19:58 eric256 well i have activestate perl...so
19:58 ninereasons compilation seems to be using src/Pugs/pugs_version.h; which hardcodes the svn version to 1241
19:59 autrijus ninereasons: that manes util/version_h.pl isn't doing what it should be doing
19:59 ninereasons ah
19:59 Limbic_Region gaal - I can tell you 101 things that could go wrong with compiling Parrot on Cygwin
19:59 autrijus try rm pugs_version.h and make again
19:59 Limbic_Region not sure if anyone picked up the torch as resident Parrot on Cygwin weenie after I dropped it late November
20:00 ninereasons will do, autrijus ; thanks
20:00 svnbot6 r3178 (autrijus++) -- * do {...} literal.
20:00 * eric256 guesses he doesn't need rules right now. ;)
20:01 Limbic_Region gaal - what were the Cygwin problems (if you remember)
20:01 gaal L~R, maybe you should tell them to p6-c, so some  <ESC>dd aah, you said *parrot*.
20:01 gaal undefined rerferences to _assert and stuff.
20:01 gaal s/_/__/; # make that extra magic
20:02 gaal eric, try make install! :)
20:02 autrijus eric256: parrot.exe needs to be in your path
20:02 autrijus that's all
20:06 ninereasons do wee need to say 'PUGS_EMBED=parrot' anymore, now that parrot is more or less required for a fully working pugs ?
20:06 svnbot6 r3179 (Stevan++) -- Set - making things work again, slight issue with some methods
20:06 eric256 but i need to have a parrot.exe
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20:12 svnbot6 r3180 (iblech++) -- Added some more submethod tests.
20:12 svnbot6 r3181 (ninereasons++) -- oops (take out a debug line)
20:13 Limbic_Region oh - so every commit results in a karma upvote?
20:13 Limbic_Region where is the karma whore bot?
20:13 ninereasons it doesn't seem to work, though, Limbic_Region
20:13 eric256 is the svnbot programmed in perl6?
20:14 ninereasons or someone has mercifully exempted me from being karmalized
20:14 Limbic_Region perlbot karma for ninereaons
20:14 perlbot ninereaons doesn't have any karma
20:14 BChrisB has joined #perl6
20:15 Limbic_Region perlbot karma for ninereasons
20:15 perlbot Karma for ninereasons: 2
20:15 Corion Does anyone know where in Perl5 the -X tests are implemented?
20:15 * eric256 read taht caramelized. :)
20:15 eric256 perlbot karma for me
20:15 perlbot Karma for me: -1
20:15 Limbic_Region ninereasons - it is probably because of the parens
20:15 Corion (and/or what the name of -T is)
20:15 eric256 perlbot karma for eric256
20:15 perlbot Karma for eric256: 2
20:15 ninereasons prob'ly so, Limbic_Region
20:15 eric256 eric256--
20:15 eric256 perlbot karma for eric256
20:15 perlbot Karma for eric256: 1
20:15 eric256 ohh ;(
20:15 eric256 lol
20:16 eric256 eric256++++
20:16 perlbot What kind of idiot karmas himself?  Your kind of idiot!
20:16 Limbic_Region when something with a space needs to be karma'd you put  it in inside the parens and the upvotes on the outside
20:16 eric256 lol
20:16 eric256 eric256++
20:16 perlbot What kind of idiot karmas himself?  Your kind of idiot!
20:16 gaal Corion: op/filetest.t
20:16 eric256 hehe
20:16 Limbic_Region that will result in a karma loss too
20:16 Limbic_Region perlbot karma for eric256
20:16 perlbot Karma for eric256: -1
20:16 eric256 i'm not too concerned
20:16 ajs hmmm ....
20:16 ajs ajs--
20:16 * Limbic_Region prefers to have neutral karma
20:16 ajs doh!
20:16 Corion gaal: That are the tests. I need the C side.,
20:16 ninereasons karma does funny things to my mind
20:16 jabbot ninereasons: does funny things to my mind has neutral karma
20:17 ninereasons he
20:17 Corion gaal: But "filetest" was the good word to search on, thank!
20:17 Corion s
20:19 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Induhvidual quote: "Is it hot in me or what?" [Time wasted online: 5hrs 47mins 22secs]")
20:19 svnbot6 r3182 (iblech++) -- Added a small additional test to t/builtins/fail.t.
20:19 ninereasons it's like rep in Perl Monks.  It made me worry about things that don't matter (e.g. that my rep is too low) and in the end demotivated me from participation.  I must be a psycho.
20:20 broquaint has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:23 eric256 i like sharing my game...but someone else changed it..lol. i'm not sure i like that.....
20:25 ninereasons that slightest whiff of anarchy, eric256
20:25 eric256 it was you! lol
20:25 ninereasons :-)
20:26 Limbic_Region eric256 - I really like the changes people have made to my examples
20:26 eric256 at least make clear screen a sub instead of putting that ugly $OS stuff around. ;)
20:26 eric256 i'm still learning to share Limbic...its scary coming back to your code after a couple hours and having it be different
20:27 ninereasons as you wish, eric256 ; it will take a minute
20:28 autrijus hey, anyone have parrot 0.2.0-release?
20:28 autrijus I'd like to know if rules still works with the latest pugs
20:28 eric256 i just did it down' worry
20:28 eric256 actualy i must admit i kind of like the way it works
20:28 jhorwitz has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
20:29 eric256 frankly i was just shocked to see a system command in there and it took me a minute to realize what had happened
20:29 Limbic_Region oh wow
20:30 Limbic_Region it is officially the weekend
20:30 eric256 not here
20:30 Limbic_Region and I might even be connected to the net sometime tomorrow
20:30 PerlJam autrijus: works in what fashion?  I just did a little test and it doesn't appear to die :)
20:30 svnbot6 r3183 (autrijus++) -- * trans_charset.
20:30 svnbot6 r3184 (ninereasons++) -- attempt to unless the karma
20:30 svnbot6 r3185 (ninereasons++) -- put cls in a sub
20:30 Limbic_Region if not - see everyone on Monday
20:30 Limbic_Region TTFN
20:30 autrijus PerlJam: ok, that's good enough
20:30 autrijus PerlJam++
20:30 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("wooooooohooooooo")
20:30 autrijus Limbic_Region: see ya
20:30 ninereasons s/unless/unleash/
20:31 PerlJam well,  that's was with r3184 ... no telling *what* happens with 3185  ;-)
20:31 autrijus heh. the change that matters is r3183
20:32 eric256 whats trans_charset?
20:32 autrijus eric256: it's a parrot op code that translates a string from a character set to another
20:33 autrijus I've been hacking proper utf8 support to parrot
20:33 eric256 ahh
20:33 eric256 can i put my classes in a seperate file?  do i need package? does it work in pugs yet?
20:34 autrijus you can put it in separate files, yes.
20:34 autrijus currently there's a small bug in that classes defined in external files must be addressed with ::
20:34 autrijus like
20:34 autrijus use Foo;
20:34 autrijus ::Foo.new()
20:34 eric256 ohhh.
20:34 autrijus this is expected to be fixed soon
20:34 eric256 that explains it
20:34 ninereasons so much perl6 goodness does work, though.
20:34 autrijus (but that syntax is still legal)
20:35 iblech has joined #perl6
20:35 svnbot6 r3186 (iblech++) -- Cleaned up Net::IRC a bit and added some IRC commands to it.
20:36 iblech ninereasons: I think we should test what the karma bot accepts...
20:36 ninereasons yes
20:36 iblech r1234, somedev++: description
20:36 iblech karma somedev
20:36 jabbot iblech: somedev has neutral karma
20:36 iblech r1234, somedev++ description
20:36 iblech karma somedev
20:36 jabbot iblech: somedev has karma of 1
20:36 iblech r1234, somedev++ --> description
20:36 ninereasons yay!
20:36 iblech karma somedev
20:36 jabbot iblech: somedev has karma of 2
20:36 iblech ok :)
20:36 iblech I'll fix svnbot
20:37 iblech ?quit Restarting svnbot
20:37 svnbot6 has quit IRC ("Restarting svnbot")
20:37 PerlJam autrijus
20:38 Ymmv has joined #perl6
20:38 PerlJam <+uri> PerlJam: i doubt energy will be wasted on both. the goal of pugs is to bootstrap p6 compiling itself. once that is done, pugs should fade away
20:38 PerlJam what say you to that?
20:38 autrijus that is correct.
20:38 svnbot6 has joined #perl6
20:38 autrijus pugs either _becomes_ perl6
20:38 autrijus or is replaced by real perl6.
20:38 PerlJam Then it's a good thing I didn't bet uri the other way  ;-)
20:39 autrijus either way, pugs as we know it will fade away.
20:39 autrijus that is why I can go with this crazy version scheme.
20:39 autrijus you don't think we'll stay with 6.283185.99 for long, right?
20:40 PerlJam well, "long" is the word I'm having problems with.  Long relative to what?
20:40 eric256 can you do @array.any.pick() by any chance? ;)
20:40 autrijus isn't it @array.pick?
20:41 autrijus (it's already there)
20:41 PerlJam any isn't a method of any object is it/
20:41 autrijus @array.any.pick, incidentally, works too.
20:41 ninereasons see examples/hangman.p6 eric256
20:41 autrijus but only because that gets invoked as any(@array).pick.
20:41 iblech hm... but [1,2,3].any.pick, does not
20:42 eric256 .pick on a regular array picks what?
20:42 autrijus iblech: it works for me
20:42 iblech a random element
20:42 autrijus it's the same as any([1,2,3]).pick
20:42 autrijus because any is not a method on array
20:42 autrijus pugs> [1,2,3].pick
20:42 autrijus 2
20:42 autrijus but .pick is.
20:42 iblech yes, but [1,2,3].any.pick always returns "(1, 2, 3)" here
20:42 autrijus and that is as expected
20:42 autrijus because any([1,2,3]) is just [1,2,3].
20:42 svnbot6 r3187, iblech++ --> Fixed svnbot to output the committer's names in a karma-bot compatible way.
20:42 iblech oh yes
20:42 iblech of course
20:43 autrijus :)
20:43 autrijus ew.
20:43 autrijus can I change --> to | ?
20:43 autrijus (in svnbot)
20:43 iblech of course. :)
20:43 iblech ?quit Shutting down svnbot
20:43 svnbot6 has quit IRC ("Shutting down svnbot")
20:44 autrijus done
20:44 iblech ok
20:45 svnbot6 has joined #perl6
20:51 ajs autrijus: any([1,2,3]) is [1,2,3] because the array is not flattened?
20:51 svnbot6 r3189, ninereasons++ | any(@ar).pick to @ar.pick
20:51 ninereasons although I deleted  src/Pugs/pugs_version.h and ran make again, my final pugs is still Version: 6.2.3 (r1241)
20:51 autrijus ajs: array refs are never flatteneed
20:52 autrijus ninereasons: does pugs_version.h say 1241 still?
20:52 ninereasons yep
20:52 ajs Ok thanks.... though is a junction of one not a junction? Could that ever end up causing problems?
20:53 ninereasons I wonder where it got that from.
20:54 PerlJam ninereasons: I just noticed the same thing
20:54 PerlJam ajs: a junction is a junction is a junction.
20:55 ninereasons must depart && /quit bye
20:55 ninereasons has quit IRC ("bye")
20:56 ajs PerlJam, then isn't any([1,2,3]) actually NOT [1,2,3] ?
20:56 PerlJam depends on the flattening (or lack there of)
20:56 svnbot6 r3190, iblech++ | Delete empty directory t/kwid as its contents have moved (in r374!).
20:56 svnbot6 r3191, Stevan++ | Test - adding tests for isa_ok() with classes
20:58 ajs PerlJam: see context above. autrijus was saying that it doesn't flatten therefore, any([1,2,3]) is same as [1,2,3], but I'm saying that a single array ref is not the same as the any-junction of that one array ref... I'm not 100% sure about that, though
21:00 iblech has quit IRC ("sleep &")
21:00 PerlJam ajs: no, they are not the same.  One is a Junction, the other is an Array
21:00 eric256 cool.ios there a descructive pick? or a .shuffle.pop ;)
21:02 Corion Hah. GetFileType in the Win32 API should be a reliable way to implement -t
21:02 eric256 ajs i think he measn like $this = 1; any($this) = 1; $this = [1,2,3]; any($this) = [1,2,3];  because $this is realy a ref to [1,2,3]
21:05 eric256 no shuffle.pop :( .... can we program new .method's for arrays and stuff?
21:06 PerlJam does anyone happen to know the URL for the dbdi repos on svn.perl.org?
21:14 autrijus PerlJam: http://svn.perl.org/parrot-modules/dbdi/
21:14 autrijus it's empty.
21:15 bpalmer has joined #perl6
21:17 PerlJam thanks.
21:19 wilx` has joined #perl6
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21:23 cognominal I thought that synopsis where the reference but I realize that for object the synopsis scratches only the surface.
21:24 Forth has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:25 cognominal for my question on trait/properties setters/getters, indeed one must read A12 to get an answer
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21:31 Corion Anyone know if there is a way to get from a Haskell (file) Handle to the file handle number?
21:31 Corion I want/need to pass it on to a Win32 API function, that wants an Int
21:31 PerlJam has quit IRC ("*poof*")
21:32 bpalmer has left "ERC Version 4.0 $Revision: 1.719 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"
21:32 wilx` is now known as wilx
21:33 autrijus System.Posix.IO.handleToFd
21:33 autrijus not sure if you have it
21:35 meppl has joined #perl6
21:37 stevan autrijus: does C<has Type $.attr;> work yet?
21:37 svnbot6 r3192, Stevan++ | Set - adding some tests for class inserting and removing
21:37 autrijus stevan: it's parsed
21:37 autrijus but has no effect yet
21:37 stevan ok
21:37 stevan thats explains it :)
21:38 stevan I was trying to do $.attr.method() and it was complaining
21:38 stevan hmm, any thoughts on how to get around that?
21:39 autrijus is it tested?
21:39 stevan i think so, but if not, i will write one
21:40 BChrisB has joined #perl6
21:40 stevan especially now that I know what is happening and I am not just going crazy :)
21:41 Juerd re
21:41 Juerd Driving in reverse sucks
21:41 Juerd Driving in reverse in the dark sucks
21:41 Juerd Driving a kilometer in reverse in the dark sucks
21:41 Juerd Or, put differently: fallen trees suck.
21:44 Corion Too bad - System.Posix.IO.handleToFd doesn't exist on Win32
21:45 Corion has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
21:46 * eric256 wonders how a fallen tree translates into driving a mile in reverse...why didn't you jsut turn around?
21:46 autrijus stevan: got a test?
21:47 stevan autrijus: working on it
21:48 stevan several of the tests in t/oo/attributes.t work, but eval_ok() does not :)
21:50 stevan lives_ok {} gives better diagnostics as well
21:50 stevan so I am fixing them first
21:50 stevan then I will add the test
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21:56 stevan wow
21:56 stevan a lot of these tests work
21:56 stevan just eval_ok sucks!
21:58 eric256 has left
22:03 stevan autrijus: test added (t/oo/attributes/methods_on_typed_attrs.t)
22:03 svnbot6 r3193, Stevan++ | adding test for methods called from typed attributes
22:03 stevan I am going back to cleaning up t/oo/attributes.t :)
22:05 Ymmv has left
22:06 stevan submethod BUILD($.bar, $.baz, $:hidden) {} works
22:06 stevan nice!
22:06 stevan autrijus++
22:10 _metaperl has joined #perl6
22:11 _metaperl stevan, ping?
22:11 autrijus stevan: the test is flawed
22:11 stevan _metaperl: pong
22:11 stevan autrijus: whats wrong?
22:11 autrijus my $foo = Foo.new(:bar($bar));
22:11 autrijus should be that, no?
22:11 autrijus otherwise you don't have an obj
22:12 stevan oh
22:12 stevan :)
22:12 stevan sorry, yes that is correct
22:12 autrijus fixed
22:12 autrijus and implemented.
22:12 stevan nice
22:12 stevan BTW - about 20 more tests pass in t/oo/attributes.t now
22:12 autrijus cool... 2 more :)
22:12 stevan eval_ok should be officially discouraged
22:13 stevan oh yes
22:13 autrijus wizards.p6 fixed to take advantage of this
22:13 stevan I use a longer lives_ok {} and is() combination which gives better diagnostics too
22:13 autrijus cool
22:14 stevan autrijus: did you see my meta-meta-class document?
22:15 autrijus no, sounds scary
22:15 autrijus looking now
22:15 stevan it is scary
22:15 svnbot6 r3194, Stevan++ | fixing several t/oo/attributes.t tests; eval_ok() does not work very well, I think we should stop using it; ~20 more tests pass now
22:15 svnbot6 r3195, autrijus++ | * MMD now deals with many more cases of expressions; in particular,
22:15 svnbot6 r3195, autrijus++ |   $.chained.attr.methods works.
22:15 svnbot6 r3196, autrijus++ | * change wizards.p6 now typed method dispatch works
22:15 stevan it may not make much sense
22:16 stevan but a sanity check would be appreciated
22:16 * stevan realizes he is asking for a sanity check from autrijus, that may not be sane :)
22:17 autrijus stevan: have you seen my wikipedia user page?
22:17 stevan not in a while
22:17 autrijus it has been like that for months
22:17 autrijus # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Autrijus
22:18 stevan nice
22:18 stevan sanity is very overrated, and not much fun IMHO :)
22:19 larsen has joined #perl6
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22:23 autrijus stevan: looks good
22:23 stevan cool
22:23 meppl has joined #perl6
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22:33 svnbot6 r3197, Stevan++ | adding some more submethod BUILD tests to t/oo/attributes.t
22:34 Juerd eric256: Well, one doesn't turn on a narrow dyke with just enough room for a car to pass, and a fence on both sides.
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