Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-05-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:01 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
00:01 clkao it's killing
00:01 svnbot6 r3839, autrijus++ | * unbreak again
00:01 autrijus I need to get xsinit done
00:01 autrijus otherwise the perl5 part doesn't have dynaloader
00:01 clkao hang on
00:01 clkao wrong macro
00:01 autrijus and how much fun we can have without dynaloader? not much.
00:02 clkao mine is Perl_eval_pv of course.
00:02 autrijus !
00:02 autrijus why?
00:02 clkao what why what?
00:02 clkao you didn't have proper macro included
00:02 autrijus so in proto
00:02 autrijus proto.h:565:PERL_CALLCONV SV*   Perl_eval_pv(pTHX_ const char* p, I32 croak_on_error);
00:03 autrijus what's this PERL_CALLCONV?
00:04 clkao doesn't mater
00:05 autrijus ok, fixed
00:05 clkao how?
00:05 clkao Perl_
00:05 clkao there should be proper macro
00:05 clkao you need to include embed.h
00:06 clkao does all the magic. otherwise something might not work
00:06 japhy hey, rules question for anyone who can answer
00:06 svnbot6 r3840, autrijus++ | * change to Perl_eval_pv
00:06 japhy m:foo{arg}/ rules... / is perfectly valid syntax
00:06 autrijus ok, included it
00:06 japhy it passes the closure {arg} to the user-defined modifier 'foo'
00:07 clkao $ ab -clkao- [~/work/pugs] ./pugs -e 'say eval_perl5("1")'
00:07 clkao /libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libperl.so" not found, required by "pugs"
00:07 japhy therefore, you'd have to write ->   m:w {...}
00:07 japhy instead of m:w{...} correct?
00:07 japhy because the lack of whitespace makes the {...} denote a closure, as an argument to :w, right?
00:07 clkao you are not using ExtUtils::Embed
00:08 autrijus clkao: no I'm not... because the linking options to perl is not grokked by ghc
00:08 autrijus need the same sanitising thing jhorwitz did in Makefile.PL
00:08 autrijus for parrot-config
00:08 clkao hate
00:08 autrijus I did say that.
00:08 clkao you do want -Wl,-R/usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5/mach/CORE -Wl,-E
00:09 mrborisguy japhy: that sounds reasonable
00:09 autrijus I'm getting segfaults. fun
00:09 autrijus clkao: can you link libperl.so linked somehow?
00:09 autrijus ./inc/Module/Install/Pugs.pm:<    $ghc_flags .= " -I$Config{archlib}/CORE -L$Config{archlib}/CORE -i$Config{archlib}/CORE -lperl"
00:10 autrijus that line is the magic
00:10 nnunley has quit IRC ()
00:10 japhy boris - ok.
00:10 japhy then that's a typo in syn05 ;)
00:10 clkao which is not understood by ghc:
00:10 clkao  -Wl,-R/usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5/mach/CORE -Wl,-E  -L/usr/local/lib /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5/mac​h/auto/DynaLoader/DynaLoader.a -L/usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5/mach/CORE -lperl -lm -lcrypt -lutil -lc
00:10 mrborisguy i sure wish somebody who knew something would pipe up about it though!
00:10 japhy syn05 also doesn't clarify syntax for character classes.  at least, it's not thorough
00:11 mrborisguy 'cause japhy, i really don't know... i think i've skimmed syn05 maybe twice at most
00:11 japhy boris - very soon I'll have a listing of all rule tokens on p6l for learned people to pore over
00:11 mrborisguy that'd be good
00:12 mrborisguy where are you going to post it?
00:12 japhy japhy.perlmonk.org/rules.txt, and then inform perl6-language of it
00:13 japhy maybe add a perl6 directory there.
00:13 japhy that'd make sense.
00:13 mrborisguy a'ight, i'll be sure to watch for it
00:13 japhy I think I'm done looking over apo5 and syn5, so it'll probably be posted in an hour or so
00:13 autrijus clkao: set libperl.so to your LD_LIBRARY_PATH
00:13 autrijus clkao: or ln it to /usr/local/lib
00:13 autrijus (For now)
00:14 clkao i know P
00:14 vcv has joined #perl6
00:23 clkao autrijus: now invoking anything returns 'Alarm clock' and then exit
00:23 svnbot6 r3841, clkao++ | Give proper ldopts to perl5 embed from ExtUtils::Embed.
00:23 vcv has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:25 japhy ok, email has been sent to p6l.
00:25 japhy time to screw around for the rest of the night
00:25 japhy g'night all
00:25 mrborisguy g'night
00:25 japhy has left
00:34 vcv has joined #perl6
00:34 svnbot6 r3842, clkao++ | ccopts breaks the build.
00:37 clkao dear autrijus, eval_perl65 always returns 1
00:38 clkao
00:38 kelan has quit IRC ("leaving")
00:41 autrijus clkao: your change broke my build
00:41 autrijus /tmp/ghc36081.hc:6:20: EXTERN.h: No such file or directory
00:41 autrijus /tmp/ghc36081.hc:7:18: perl.h: No such file or directory
00:41 autrijus the -Wl,-R is not enough to make ghc see -L
00:42 clkao gah. still need ccopts
00:42 autrijus you need to filter it
00:42 autrijus see Makefile.PL for how
00:42 autrijus oh you already saw
00:43 clkao no i iddn't.. i just do it my way
00:43 clkao ha
00:43 clkao btw
00:43 autrijus heh
00:43 clkao eval_perl5 ("print 1") doesn't work
00:43 autrijus I'm fixing the eval prototpye and xsinit
00:43 autrijus try "warn 1"
00:43 autrijus it worksforme
00:43 clkao i'm confused. it worked again with ccopts
00:44 autrijus it worksforme too
00:44 autrijus what did you see?
00:44 mrborisguy are you guys trying to make it so perl5 code can be included?
00:44 autrijus some phantom thing?
00:44 clkao no nothing
00:44 mrborisguy will that mean i can include perl5 modules?
00:45 clkao eval_perl5('sfaksfl;');
00:45 clkao this returns 1 :)
00:45 autrijus mrborisguy: yes
00:45 autrijus mrborisguy: use DBI; # loads the p5 DBI if p6's DBI is not in path
00:46 autrijus that's the idea.
00:46 autrijus I think it's worth it.
00:46 mrborisguy oh, i think it's incredibly worth it!
00:46 mrborisguy p5 modules are the only reason i'm writing my current program in p5
00:46 autrijus you speak for all of us CPAN authors :)
00:47 clkao autrijus: ok, here's what i want
00:48 * autrijus gets to port PAR's myldr/* to Haskell! fun!
00:50 clkao autrijus: can you make embed.perl5's eval_perl5 not calling eval_pv ectly
00:50 clkao but call to something like perl5_eval_pv, which is some c file hooked to the build system
00:50 autrijus sure thing
00:50 clkao then i can do s interesting stuff
00:50 autrijus sure
00:50 clkao (of course perl5_eval_pv is a stu calling evaL-pv for now
00:51 autrijus let's call it pugs_perl5_eval() for now?
00:51 clkao sure.
00:51 clkao make it a c file
00:51 clkao src/Pugs/Embed/Perl5.o(.text+0x12c): In function `r2HZ_info':
00:51 clkao : undefined reference to `boot_DynaLoader'
00:51 svnbot6 r3843, autrijus++ | * init dynaloader; add ccopts back.
00:51 clkao hate
00:51 autrijus clkao: you need ccopts
00:51 autrijus that will add back Dynaloader.a
00:51 autrijus which is neccessary
00:51 autrijus i.e. /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.6/mac​h/auto/DynaLoader/DynaLoader.a
00:51 clkao you are not including embed.h
00:51 clkao i have it.
00:52 clkao it was a 'g' merge
00:52 autrijus ok, add embed.h and commit then
00:52 clkao i rerun makefile.pl
00:52 autrijus ok. you are correct, we need a src/perl65/
00:52 autrijus re
00:52 autrijus src/perl5/
00:52 autrijus just like how syck is dealt
00:52 autrijus all C wrappers go there
00:54 clkao ok. just make ithooke to the build system so i can play with
00:55 clkao {-# INCLUDE <embed.h> #-}
00:55 clkao this is not comment no?
00:56 clkao p
00:57 autrijus I'm fixing build system
00:57 autrijus no it's not comment.
00:58 clkao bah. it doesn't work. macro not resoled
00:58 osfameron has quit IRC ("Leaving")
01:02 clkao commit is bloody slow
01:02 svnbot6 r3844, clkao++ | Make newXS work.
01:06 clkao great, now i have Alarm clock again
01:07 autrijus I'm fixing build system ;)
01:08 blackbart has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:08 ijoyce_laptop where do the parrot folks irc at?
01:08 autrijus irc.perl.org
01:09 ijoyce_laptop thanks
01:09 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'eval_perl5 "use DBI; print DBI->VERSION"'
01:09 autrijus 1.48
01:09 autrijus please tell me you're happy
01:10 simcop2387 has joined #perl6
01:10 ijoyce_laptop fan-tastic
01:10 autrijus ok. now onto marshalling so that eval_perl5 can return something :)
01:10 autrijus btw, is it considered sane that under embed perl5, when pugs se
01:10 autrijus see
01:10 autrijus use DBI;
01:10 autrijus it search for perl5 when perl6 DBI.pm is not found?
01:11 autrijus i.e. we don't have another
01:11 autrijus use_p5 DBI;
01:11 clkao i think for now making it explicit is better
01:11 ijoyce_laptop use p5DBI;
01:11 ijoyce_laptop use p5:DBI;
01:11 autrijus require_perl5('DBI');
01:11 autrijus require_perl5('DBI.pm');
01:12 autrijus that actually makes sense. I mean the .pm-less form
01:12 autrijus I hate the path munging anyway
01:12 autrijus so jusr module name
01:13 obra just magically falling back to perl5 seems very nice for migration
01:13 clkao now put eval_pv in c
01:13 autrijus yeah, but it has this burden
01:13 svnbot6 r3845, autrijus++ | * src/perl5/ for perl5 wrappers
01:13 svnbot6 r3846, autrijus++ | * dynaloader build infrastructure landed
01:13 autrijus of having CGI.pm6 shadowing of CGI.pm5
01:13 obra actually, i wonder if there's a way to use the perl6 module path naming to make it clean
01:13 autrijus and people will expect compat
01:13 autrijus obra: good idea!
01:13 ijoyce_laptop falling back without notice could cause fun debugging sessions
01:13 autrijus use DBI-(Any)-Perl5;
01:13 autrijus use DBI--Perl5;
01:14 autrijus is that the idea?
01:14 * obra nods
01:14 autrijus use DBI-1.40-Perl5;
01:14 autrijus that does make the "Perl5" thing magical tho
01:14 autrijus whereas it's supposed to be uri
01:14 ijoyce_laptop bridge DBI;
01:14 obra it's supposed to be a URI? really
01:14 obra ?
01:14 autrijus I think. check the syns?
01:14 obra wait. perl6 won't let me put a coderef in @INC?
01:15 autrijus er, I don't know
01:15 obra in the middle of a kwiki upgrade. it'll take a while
01:15 autrijus I'm not sure I care
01:15 theorbtw1 has joined #perl6
01:15 obra so. if you can put a coderef in @INC, then you could make -Perl5 magic in a sane way
01:15 autrijus clkao: you can put eval_pv in c :)
01:15 autrijus clkao: I'll write the neccessary FFI in Perl.hs
01:15 autrijus clkao: just write perl5_eval
01:15 autrijus whatever way you like it to be
01:15 autrijus in src/perl5/perl5.c
01:15 clkao i'm still building
01:15 autrijus (and .h)
01:16 castaway_ has joined #perl6
01:16 obra does that make sense?
01:16 autrijus obra: fwiw that doesn't quite make sense to me
01:16 autrijus obra: we are in a separate compilatino system.
01:16 autrijus it's no longer scripting :)
01:16 autrijus need to handle pugscc
01:16 clkao cc
01:17 autrijus let me do this typespace magic first. sec
01:17 autrijus I believe I can get it to work.
01:17 autrijus clkao++ # reduced trial-and-error by 100%
01:17 * obra nods
01:18 clkao what trial and error?
01:18 clkao you mean all this briding
01:18 autrijus clkao: getting the right embedding scheme figured out
01:18 clkao ?
01:18 autrijus right
01:18 clkao :)
01:19 autrijus I mean PAR's use case doesn't involve any marshal
01:19 autrijus it's purely perl5-to-perl5
01:19 autrijus and MzScheme's C part is too light
01:19 autrijus so I'm clueless about how to get two way bridging to work
01:19 sproingie has joined #perl6
01:20 autrijus clkao: here's a thought.
01:20 autrijus all perl5 values are SV right?
01:20 autrijus how about I make SV a native Pugs type?
01:20 clkao if that helps for ffi callbacks
01:20 autrijus I think it makes ~total sense
01:20 autrijus because then I can do introspection
01:21 clkao now
01:21 autrijus on haskell side
01:21 clkao foreign import ccall "perl5.h perl5_eval_pv"
01:21 clkao    perl5_eval_pv :: CString -> Word32 -> IO ()
01:21 clkao what should this return?
01:21 autrijus () is void
01:21 autrijus you can change its return type by changing ()
01:21 autrijus I'm thinking having it retugning a Perl5SV
01:21 autrijus is the best bet
01:21 autrijus or just P5SV
01:21 kelan has joined #perl6
01:22 autrijus and then I can make it a first-class Val
01:22 clkao ok... where to declare?
01:22 obra autrijus: URI identifying the author (or
01:22 obra       authorizing authority).
01:22 clkao or you do that
01:22 kelan hmm. irc'ing with gaim
01:22 autrijus I'll do that now
01:22 autrijus then I'll make the SV stringify and numifyable
01:22 autrijus that instantly solve marshalling for simple cases.
01:22 autrijus then we move to SvHV and SvRV.
01:23 obra . o O {   use DBI-1.40-perl5:/usr/bin/perl }
01:23 autrijus use DBI-1.40-perl5;
01:23 obra some sort of degenerate internal URI scheme seems not insane
01:23 autrijus I think that works best.
01:23 svnbot6 r3847, autrijus++ | * require_perl5
01:23 obra sure
01:23 obra I actually like that
01:23 autrijus then that is that.
01:23 obra will there be a perl5 interpreter compiled in or just on the fly bound?
01:24 clkao let's sort the internals out first
01:25 clkao i have a simple wrapper
01:25 autrijus clkao: PerlSV type is in
01:25 autrijus obra: compiled in
01:25 autrijus obra: we can't quite do on the fly bound without a NCI
01:25 autrijus obra: clkao's layer is in pure C
01:25 autrijus so future NCI can target that
01:26 autrijus so it's not haskellish :)
01:26 ninereasons has quit IRC ("bye")
01:27 * obra nods
01:27 obra Oh god. the new kwiki antispam is so much better
01:27 castaway has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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01:31 clkao autrijus: ./pugs -e 'eval_perl5 ("print 1")'
01:31 svnbot6 r3848, autrijus++ | * PerlSV type for clkao.
01:31 svnbot6 r3849, autrijus++ | * add back boot_DynaLoader
01:31 clkao this still doesn't work for me
01:32 autrijus what's the werr? alarm?
01:32 clkao nothing
01:32 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'say require_perl5 "DBI"'
01:33 autrijus pugs: cannot cast from PerlSV 0x084464f4 to [Char]
01:33 clkao ./pugs -e 'say eval_perl5 ("print 2")'
01:33 autrijus yay! I'm only one step till done!
01:33 clkao this printgs 1
01:33 autrijus clkao: try trunk
01:33 autrijus let me finish simple marshalling
01:34 clkao ?? i am using trunk
01:34 autrijus committing
01:34 autrijus r3850
01:35 clkao it's the print isn't got run
01:35 clkao btw i have unspecced/p5/basic.t
01:38 clkao laptop gets soooo hot
01:38 svnbot6 r3850, autrijus++ | * PerlSV is now a native Pugs type.
01:38 autrijus cool
01:38 autrijus try using warn
01:38 clkao same
01:38 autrijus then you're borked.
01:39 autrijus probably initperl5 didn't get run
01:39 autrijus trace it at perl5.c level?
01:39 clkao fsck
01:39 autrijus it works fine here btw.
01:39 autrijus you can write perl5.c without running it I'm sure, too
01:39 clkao pugs: cannot cast from PerlSV () to [Char]
01:39 clkao ha
01:39 clkao coool
01:41 autrijus I've done the casting
01:42 clkao no it's not called
01:42 clkao what should i do?
01:43 autrijus committing
01:43 meppl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
01:44 * sproingie swears up and down
01:45 sproingie i swear, windows BOOTS faster than it responds to a damn delete keypress in explorer
01:45 clkao autrijus: i put a fprintf in perl5_init.. not called
01:46 autrijus clkao: look at pugsconfig
01:46 autrijus src/pugs_config.h
01:46 autrijus make sure perl5 is defined
01:46 clkao #undef PUGS_EMBED_PERL5
01:46 clkao !*%#%
01:46 autrijus ...
01:47 autrijus !$#!$
01:47 autrijus you did run makefile.pl one without the env right? ;)
01:47 autrijus fix the config bah
01:47 clkao it doesn't regen
01:47 clkao ?
01:47 clkao i did run it with the env
01:47 clkao and i even make clean
01:47 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'say eval_perl5 "use DBI; DBI->VERSION"'
01:47 autrijus 1.48
01:48 clkao still the same :(
01:49 autrijus hm? rm src/Pugs/Embed/Perl5.{o,hi}
01:49 autrijus then make again
01:49 svnbot6 r3851, clkao++ | Basic tests for eval_perl5.
01:49 clkao does the test pass for you now?
01:49 autrijus 1..3
01:49 autrijus ok 1 - number
01:49 autrijus ok 2 - number
01:49 autrijus Can't locate object method "perl6" via package "now" (perhaps you forgot to load "now"?) at (eval 4) line 1.
01:50 clkao hahaha
01:50 autrijus heh bad test
01:50 clkao fix that
01:50 clkao more quotes
01:50 autrijus all pass!
01:50 autrijus done
01:50 autrijus amazing how fast we did this
01:50 autrijus now moving to handle the "use" syntax and namespace numbing
01:50 clkao :))
01:52 clkao alarm clock for me again
01:53 clkao right after perl5_init
01:53 eric256 has joined #perl6
01:54 autrijus hrm.
01:54 svnbot6 r3852, autrijus++ | * SV stringification!
01:54 svnbot6 r3853, autrijus++ | * bad test
01:54 autrijus I can't duplicate it at all
01:55 clkao it's after perl5_init finsihes
01:56 clkao 50929 pugs     PSIG  SIGALRM caught handler=0x82dd588 mask=0x0 code=0x0 50929 pugs     PSIG  SIGALRM caught handler=0x82dd588 mask=0x0 code=0x0
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02:01 clkao maybe it's becaues ghc is threaded but my perl5 isn't
02:03 autrijus ah. that can be it
02:03 autrijus you can remove -thread and try
02:04 autrijus ok, "use" parsed
02:04 autrijus class space initialised
02:04 clkao WORKS
02:04 clkao initialzied as?
02:05 clkao you need a magic object for class method
02:05 autrijus I did
02:05 autrijus and yes I'm doing that
02:08 eric256 after reading the "Why aren't you using Perl6 yet?" post it seems that most people either don't understand pugs or are perfectly happy to let other people write the next progamming language for them....odd and slightly disheartening. until i joined pugs development i though perlmonks was pretty cutting edge and moving forward...now they seem like cavemen who run from the burning stick. ;)
02:10 autrijus eric256: heh, no, it's perfectly reasonable to expect something usable in production before using it
02:11 autrijus ok, now we need AUTOMETH.
02:12 eric256 i suppose before using it in production.  just seems like lots of people expect perl6 to materialize out of then air...i don't realy have the time for it, and all there reasons apply to me as well. but perl6 has enough new amazing features that i'd like to do whatever possible to help get it here now! lol. dinner either way.
02:12 eric256 later
02:12 clkao why isn't freebsd building threaded perl by default?
02:12 autrijus clkao: no idea
02:14 eric256 autrijus++ for pugs!
02:14 svnbot6 r3854, autrijus++ | * parse for `use DBI-1.40-Perl5`
02:14 svnbot6 r3855, clkao++ | Disable threads when embedding non-threaded perl5.
02:14 clkao autrijus: so i guess what you will do is make sv convertable to obj that can invoke method.
02:14 Boogie has joined #perl6
02:15 eric256 just thought i would throw that in there in case it wasn't assumed already ;)
02:15 clkao and then you forge an object and link the invocation to perl5_call.. then i can take over (or you are not tired yet and want to see if c is adorable again :)
02:15 clkao for now i am going to sleep
02:17 autrijus enjoy
02:17 autrijus I've already got the obj autoload done.
02:17 autrijus I can now invoke arbitary p5sv's methods.
02:17 clkao coooool
02:17 autrijus the other way is gonna be harder.
02:18 clkao if you can make some easier way to create pugs objects from c ..
02:18 clkao anything better than eval
02:19 autrijus trying to think if that makes sense actually
02:19 autrijus I can export a seriest of casters
02:19 autrijus int -> pugsval
02:19 autrijus char* -> pugsval
02:19 autrijus will that help?
02:20 clkao hang on.
02:20 clkao i just give you sv and it turns to pugsval
02:24 PerlJam has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:25 autrijus to avoid class clash I'll use scalar space for now
02:25 autrijus i.e. $DBI
02:25 autrijus $*DBI actually
02:25 PerlJam has joined #perl6
02:26 clkao i take it's an SV pv ?
02:26 clkao commit!
02:28 autrijus committing
02:28 autrijus * Full PerlSV object reification in Pugs space.
02:28 autrijus r3856.
02:29 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'use DBI-1.41-Perl5; say $DBI.VERSION'
02:29 autrijus *** Unimplemented unaryOp: Scalar::Perl5::AUTOLOAD at -e line 1, column 25-37
02:29 autrijus fun not?
02:29 autrijus now how do I implement that ;)
02:30 autrijus need your callconv!
02:30 clkao make it call perl5_call
02:30 autrijus perl5_call (SV *sv, char *methname, SV**args)
02:30 clkao make a stub entry to return "ping clkao"
02:30 autrijus can we have that?
02:30 svnbot6 r3856, autrijus++ | * Full PerlSV object reification in Pugs space.
02:30 clkao wtf SV**args?
02:30 autrijus $DBI.foo($DBI, $DBI)
02:31 autrijus or rather, just
02:31 clkao AV *args?
02:31 autrijus perl5_call(char *subname, SV**args)
02:31 autrijus why AV? AV is a SV you know
02:31 autrijus perl5_call(char *subname, int argc, SV**args)
02:31 autrijus that make sense?
02:31 autrijus that's easiest to me
02:32 autrijus can you manufacture that? just push args to stack
02:32 autrijus and call_pv subname
02:32 clkao sure
02:32 autrijus easy as pie
02:33 autrijus k, please do that, I'll do haskell side
02:33 clkao but i need to sleep now
02:33 clkao make a stub!
02:33 autrijus aww.
02:33 clkao and a failed test
02:33 autrijus nah. I'll just implement that ;)
02:33 clkao bwah
02:33 * autrijus is having too much fun to stop
02:33 clkao don't take away my fun!
02:33 autrijus ok ok ;)
02:33 clkao actually you want a flag for CALL_METHOD or CALL_PV
02:34 clkao call_pv ('VERSION', 'DBI') won't properly resolv
02:34 autrijus I know. I'll use call_method
02:34 autrijus with G_SCALAR
02:35 autrijus <- actually read EaEP
02:37 autrijus done
02:38 autrijus give it a sanity review if you can
02:38 autrijus r3857
02:38 clkao i will do a quick review
02:39 autrijus foreign import ccall "perl5.h perl5_call" perl5_call :: CString -> CInt -> Ptr PerlSV -> IO PerlSV
02:39 autrijus FFI++ # too easy!
02:39 clkao refcount on POPi ?
02:39 clkao er POPs i mean
02:39 autrijus dunno how to do that properly
02:40 autrijus _inc?
02:40 autrijus please just fix away
02:40 clkao can wait till a failed test :)
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02:41 clkao return sv not char*
02:41 autrijus k.
02:41 autrijus ah right.
02:42 autrijus please fix away
02:42 autrijus <- is already in haskell side
02:43 * clkao -> sleep
02:43 svnbot6 r3857, autrijus++ | * add perl5 callconv
02:46 autrijus ok. callconv passed. now linking to autoload
02:46 autrijus will it work?
02:48 clkao people must be curious
02:48 svnbot6 r3858, clkao++ | call returns SV *, not char *.
02:49 autrijus it compiles...
02:49 autrijus (ship it!)
02:49 clkao ship it!
02:49 clkao i mean, commit it XD
02:51 autrijus committing
02:52 autrijus ah. callconv need SPAGAIN
02:52 autrijus fixing
02:52 eric256 what are you guys working on?
02:52 autrijus eric256: use DBI from perl6
02:52 autrijus we're very close.
02:53 eric256 all perl5 modules? or are you just focusing on DBI? i would guess getting it to work would get others to work
02:53 svnbot6 r3859, autrijus++ | * AUTOLOAD now links to callconv
02:53 autrijus all perl5 modules.
02:57 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'use DBI-0.01-Perl5; say $DBI.VERSION'
02:57 autrijus 1.48
02:57 autrijus WE DID IT!
02:57 jql impressive
02:57 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'use CGI-0.01-Perl5; say $CGI.header'
02:57 autrijus Content-Type: text/html
02:58 clkao :)
02:59 mrborisguy YEAH!!!!
02:59 svnbot6 r3860, autrijus++ | * callconv fixed.
02:59 * mrborisguy rejoices
02:59 autrijus moving to typespace!
03:01 * eric256 starts a new build
03:05 obra autrijus noce
03:05 obra nice
03:06 autrijus :)
03:07 Khisanth you have libperl linked into pugs?
03:08 autrijus yes.
03:08 autrijus this time with dynaloader.
03:08 clkao fix my test and you rule
03:09 * clkao really tries to sleep
03:11 autrijus typespace populated. filling in metaobj
03:11 svnbot6 r3861, clkao++ | Tests for p5 method calls.
03:11 autrijus $ ./pugs -e 'use CGI-0.01-Perl5; say CGI.header'
03:11 autrijus Content-Type: text/html
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03:20 svnbot6 r3862, autrijus++ | * type space populated!
03:31 Khisanth hrm
03:31 Khisanth so pugs just acquired all of CPAN
03:32 jql theives
03:32 Khisanth hostile takeover :)
03:32 autrijus ./pugs -e 'use Digest-0-perl5; my $md5 = Digest.MD5; $md5.add("Pugs!"); say $md5.hexdigest'
03:32 autrijus f08bcb32d6eea3d3c9ec2f924ce33067
03:33 mrborisguy i'm loving it!
03:33 jql you can't have my modules
03:33 jql :P
03:33 Khisanth what is with the version numbers though?
03:33 autrijus Khisanth: minimal version number thing
03:34 autrijus I'm making it optional
03:34 * jql waits for pugs to compile
03:34 autrijus works
03:36 * mrborisguy starts new build
03:36 crysflame has joined #perl6
03:36 crysflame win move 5
03:36 autrijus yo. :)
03:36 crysflame i thought it was just quiet
03:36 svnbot6 r3863, autrijus++ | * string and integer parameter passing.
03:36 mrborisguy am i supposed to reconfigure every time?
03:37 mrborisguy or i guess, rerun Makefile.PL every time?
03:37 japhy has joined #perl6
03:37 * jql feels this sudden urge to get a faster computer
03:38 japhy ignore that urge.  it's bad and wrong.
03:38 mrborisguy i can hardly wait...  i wish i were running something faster too at the moment!
03:38 jql yeah. pugs.parser just compiled, and the urge is diminished
03:39 Khisanth heh compiling pugs does tend to cause an urge to get a faster computer
03:39 mrborisguy i just may have to rewrite the entire program i just wrote in p6 now
03:40 autrijus mrborisguy: no, just "make" is enough
03:40 jql hell, with CPAN starting to work on P6, my desire to rewrite modules just went down
03:40 * jql chuckles
03:40 autrijus that's as expected :)
03:41 japhy what will the Perl 6 interpreter be written in, ultimately?
03:41 japhy is the Haskell just a prototype thing?
03:41 mugwump forth
03:41 jql prolog would be a natural
03:42 japhy befunge!
03:42 kelan malbolge
03:42 mrborisguy autrijus: thanks
03:42 jql Perl6#
03:42 japhy intercal.
03:42 Khisanth japhy: Perl 6 of course ;)
03:42 mrborisguy isn't perl6 going to be written in python?
03:43 autrijus japhy: the perl 6 interpreter will no longer exist
03:43 autrijus japhy: there will be a perl 6 _compiler_ though :)
03:43 Khisanth mrborisguy: only if they decide to kill the whole project :p
03:43 jql C:\Perl6-Pugs-6.2.5>pugs -e "say 'Hello World!'"
03:43 autrijus that takes a perl 6 program and emit some kind of assembly.
03:43 jql Hello World!
03:43 jql sweet
03:43 mrborisguy Khisanth: haha
03:43 crysflame hiya, japhy
03:43 autrijus japhy: that "some kind" may be parrot assembly, or C, or C--, or LLVM, or god knows what.
03:44 autrijus japhy: and the ultimate goal is for that compiler itself written in perl 6
03:44 autrijus so itself can also run on parrot, or C, or C--, or LLVM, or god knows what.
03:44 japhy hi crys
03:44 japhy autri - ok, by "interpreter" I meant "parser and compiler"
03:45 japhy my point is, you're using Haskell right now to interpret Perl 6 because it seems to be a natural fit for the job
03:45 autrijus japhy: pugs can also emit parrot assembly from perl6 code :)
03:45 japhy that's cool.
03:45 autrijus ./pugs -BParrot examples/mandel.p6 # for example
03:45 japhy I'm just curious how this isn't pulling yourself up by your bootstraps
03:46 autrijus japhy: so the interpreter part is pluggable
03:46 autrijus japhy: the next logical step is to make the parser to use rules
03:46 autrijus japhy: the next logibal step is to port the codegen to perl6.
03:46 autrijus that's all.
03:46 japhy so you'd use pugs to temporarily support the work until you've used it to write the actual perl 6 compiler?
03:46 autrijus that is one route.
03:47 autrijus it is also possible to simply machine-translate pugs to PIR or to Perl6.
03:47 japhy ok
03:47 autrijus at least the codegen/parsing part.
03:47 mrborisguy it seems really odd... but if you think about it, the C compiler is written in C too
03:47 autrijus but one way or another it makes bootstrapping much simpler.
03:47 japhy yeah.
03:47 autrijus since at any time we have an interpreter to fallback to.
03:47 autrijus so eg. BEGIN{...} can work for the first time
03:47 autrijus otherwise it's very hard.
03:48 autrijus have to essentially recompile for each BEGIN
03:48 japhy interesting
03:48 japhy one day I'll wrap my brain around this whole thing.
03:48 autrijus :)
03:48 japhy I'll just get back to working on that Perl 6 rule parser
03:49 mrborisguy did you ever post your txt file?
03:49 mrborisguy i couldn't find it, japhy
03:49 japhy yeah.
03:49 jql it's like trying to understand quines
03:49 japhy http://japhy.perlmonk.org/perl6/rules.txt
03:49 mrborisguy japhy.perlmonk.org/rules.txt?
03:49 japhy no, I added perl6/ to it
03:49 mrborisguy got it
03:50 japhy I figure there'll be more than one perl6-related file I ever write ;)
03:50 japhy already got a bit of feedback from J S Duff
03:51 mrborisguy it looks good
03:51 mrborisguy i'll have to really sift through it to give you any useful feedback
03:51 mrborisguy yeah, i'm sure you'll write more
03:52 stevan autrijus: so do we have perl5 in pugs now?
03:52 * stevan backlogs in amazement
03:53 autrijus stevan: yes.
03:54 mrborisguy autrijus: i must admit, i'm rather amazed at how fast you guys did that!
03:54 stevan very very very very cool
03:54 autrijus use Digest--perl5;
03:54 autrijus my $md5 = Digest.MD5;
03:54 autrijus $md5.add('Pugs!');
03:54 mrborisguy dd you do it all today?
03:54 autrijus say $md5.hexdigest; # f08bcb32d6eea3d3c9ec2f924ce33067
03:54 autrijus mrborisguy: yes, most of it.
03:55 autrijus in 3 hours or so
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03:55 mrborisguy that's just unbelievable
03:55 crysflame that's autrijus
03:55 autrijus (and clkao.)
03:55 stevan its the SVK :)
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03:56 jql Digest.MD5 can't be right, can it?
03:56 japhy Digest::MD5.new, no?
03:56 japhy or am I loopy?
03:56 jql that's how it should be, yeah
03:56 stevan isnt Digest the factory module
03:56 autrijus perldoc Digest
03:56 japhy WOW!  I KNOW PERL 6!
03:56 Khisanth or we need to read up on perl6? :P
03:57 autrijus "perldoc Digest" for enlightenment :)
03:57 japhy pshaw.
03:57 jql I will enlighten myself shortly
03:57 autrijus there's lots of rough edges
03:57 svnbot6 r3864, autrijus++ | * config tweks for PUGS_EMBED=perl5
03:57 autrijus but I'll fix them when I wake up.
03:57 japhy I never knew they could be used like that.
03:57 autrijus the bulk is all there.
03:57 japhy err, s/they/it/
03:58 jql interesting. I've only ever read the Digest::MD5/SHA1 pod, never the Digest pod
03:58 jql didn't realize it was gonna play that way
03:59 jql and Digest::MD5 says Digest::MD5->new :P
03:59 japhy yeah, seriously.  I always just used the Digest::X module I needed
03:59 japhy since I was never in need of a factory
04:00 autrijus I posted to PM
04:00 autrijus # http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=460233
04:00 * jql checks to see if nmake test is done
04:00 Khisanth I can usually hear if it is done :)
04:00 japhy cool beans, autrijus.
04:00 jql urge to upgrade computer... rising
04:01 jql I'm in southern cali. fan is on, TV is on, can't hear hard-drive over that. :)
04:01 * Khisanth flips jql's upgrade urge overflow bit
04:02 Khisanth jql: I don't hear the hard drive, I hear the fan
04:02 Khisanth this is a laptop
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04:02 jql ahh
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04:03 stevan autrijus: as always, I am utterly amazed
04:04 * stevan edges ever closer to using Pugs in production :P
04:04 autrijus :)
04:05 stevan I am too sleepy to write tests now, but I am setting aside some tuits for tomorrow
04:05 jql urge to link software with pugs... rising
04:05 stevan so very very cool
04:05 jql anyone written a gui with pugs, yet?
04:05 crysflame if i were the borg, i would leave borg artifacts everywhere and wait for cultures to link to them
04:06 crysflame at which point the culture would become a borg extension culture
04:06 mrborisguy *** cannot cast from VUndef to ()
04:06 mrborisguy    at ./dates.p6 line 6, column 11-21
04:06 f0rth gui with hs-plugins and wxHaskell?
04:06 * stevan wanders happily off to bed, to dream of dancing pugs :)
04:06 jql <dalek>assimilate</dalek>
04:06 mrborisguy line 6 is:  my $md5 = Digest.MD5;
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04:07 mrborisguy in the exact example autrijus gave
04:07 crysflame maybe $md5= Digest--MD5.new;
04:08 autrijus mrborisguy: you didn't build with embedding perl5
04:08 autrijus mrborisguy: you need to do:
04:08 autrijus env PUGS_EMBED=perl5 perl Makefile.PL
04:08 autrijus rm src/Pugs/pugs_config.h src/Pugs/Embed/Perl5.o
04:08 autrijus and make again
04:09 mrborisguy oh, okay
04:09 mrborisguy i'll try that
04:09 mrborisguy thanks
04:10 autrijus np :)
04:10 autrijus now I sleep. &
04:10 * autrijus waves
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05:10 eric256 to embed perl do you need to be building perl5 from source?
05:11 gaal i don't think so eric, but you probably need the same compiler as the one your perl5 was built with. or close enough.
05:11 mugwump aiui you need dev. headers and libperl
05:11 eric256 well i have a ActiveState release soo that is probably not going to happen :)
05:12 gaal eric, the other day i just happened to build my own perl on win32. it really wasn't all that bad, if you're up to d/ling about 250mb.
05:13 gaal :)
05:13 eric256 is there a paste bot i can put my huge error on?
05:14 gaal actually the prospect filled me with dread, since i hate the windows command line so much, but now that i have a working cpan it's such a relief.
05:14 gaal perlbot nopaste
05:14 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
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05:14 eric256 yea i don't realy feel like screwing with my perl5 install since it is all working and happy
05:16 pasteling "eric256" at 69.234.109.88 pasted "Build Problems. ActiveState + Pugs ;) + EMBED_PUGS=perl5" (169 lines, 11.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/10395
05:16 eric256 nmake and i arn't friends so i just included the whole nmake unoptimized out put.....i'm hoping someone can help me figure out why it failed ;)
05:20 gaal hmm, it's working for me
05:20 eric256 with ActiveState?
05:21 gaal no, my shiny own perl
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05:21 eric256 yea i'm pretty sure its related to activestate...what compiler did you use with your perl?  cpan on windows would be nice
05:21 eric256 no more icky ppm
05:22 gaal oh, you can use cpan with activeperl
05:22 gaal if you do have a compiler.
05:22 gaal (or even without one, if you don't need to compile XS)
05:23 eric256 yes.  if i had a compiler i wouldn't be using activeperl though
05:23 gaal i used the free MS toolchain
05:23 eric256 toolchain?
05:23 eric256 free and MS in one sentence? you must me the diseas and not the company ;)
05:23 gaal okay, it goes like this: Microsoft have a free version of their compiler plus build tools
05:24 Khisanth well free as in beer anyway
05:24 gaal it's mostly command line
05:24 gaal and not the very newest.
05:24 gaal but it works!
05:24 eric256 hmmm. seems like going over to the dark side. ;)
05:24 gaal (and also, seems very fast.)
05:24 Khisanth hmm
05:25 gaal however, you need to gather bits and pieces a bit to make it useful
05:25 Khisanth does ghc build with mingw?
05:25 eric256 where would i find this?  i've tried compiling perl with VC 6 a couple times with no luck.
05:25 gaal it's build *with* msys, Khisanth.
05:25 gaal msys ~~ mingw
05:25 eric256 mingw?
05:25 gaal eric, okay, i gotta run to work unfortunately but the short of it:
05:26 gaal - grab perl-5.8.6.tar.gz
05:26 Khisanth www.mingw.org :)
05:26 gaal - read README.win32
05:26 gaal - d/l three kits from microsoft.com [1]
05:26 gaal - set up paths
05:26 gaal - cd perl-5.8.6/win32
05:26 gaal - vi Makefile
05:27 ingy anyone have knowledge about guid generation?
05:27 gaal - nmake etc.
05:27 gaal that's it; really
05:27 gaal oh, there's a couple of things you have to build manually but it's in the README
05:27 Khisanth what happened to Configure?
05:27 ingy is there a perl  module to generate generic guids?
05:27 * eric256 is quite sure gaal left out all the hard things. lol. thanks
05:27 gaal ingy, on p5 i think there's one on cpan
05:29 Khisanth what is a guid?
05:29 eric256 has left
05:29 gaal eric, just remember, one of the three kits has many subfeatures you can choose from; two of them are necessary for building perl so don't leave them out. this is mentioned in the README.
05:29 gaal oops, too late.
05:29 ingy I suppose just taking an md5 of a hires time and a couple other unique vals would work
05:29 ingy or sha1
05:29 gaal for what, ingy?
05:29 obra ingy: Data::UUID
05:29 ingy mmm
05:29 gaal ingy, you can call that from pugs now :)
05:30 ingy cool!
05:30 ingy thanks y'all
05:30 * Khisanth renames pugs to frankenstein's monster and autrijus to dr. frankenstein
05:31 gaal the frankensteins were fast and graceful?
05:31 Khisanth it depends on the version
05:32 ingy :)
05:32 ingy obra: that's whatI was looking for
05:33 ingy wow it's all XS and stuff
05:33 obra though there's a pure perl version too
05:34 ingy how does that work under pugs?
05:34 ingy ah
05:46 svnbot6 r3865, autrijus++ | * new perl5_can API to test whether a method can be found
05:46 svnbot6 r3865, autrijus++ |   in perl5 land, or fallback to perl6.
05:46 svnbot6 r3866, autrijus++ | * bareword classes now stand for their metaobjects, not the
05:46 svnbot6 r3866, autrijus++ |   simple type literal. this makes class-level methods possible.
05:46 svnbot6 r3867, autrijus++ | * only look up AUTOLOAD when there is possibly a hit for AUTOLOAD.
05:46 svnbot6 r3867, autrijus++ | * therefore `DBI.connect` and `Digest::MD5.new` no longer refers to
05:46 svnbot6 r3867, autrijus++ |   the builtin prim `connect` and `new`, but rather to their Perl 5
05:46 svnbot6 r3867, autrijus++ |   space methods.
05:59 gaal oops, i was wrong earlier when i told eric PUGS_EMBED works for me on win32 - i get the same error
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06:03 gaal looks like it may be a ghc issue :(
06:04 gaal as its definition is wrapped in a defined(_MSC_VER) in HsBase.h
06:04 gaal #if !defined(...)
06:06 gaal oy, there's alsmost certainly a bug there, if i'm looking at the sources for the version i'm using.. but the cvs HEAD looks fixed
06:07 gaal i'll try this later when i have tuits for it, for now it seems as though p5 embedding on win32 might require a newer ghc than 6.4
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07:47 Aankhen`` Closure interpolation in an s/// doesn't work?
07:49 nothingmuch write a test?
07:49 Aankhen`` OK.
07:50 Aankhen`` Where should it go?
07:50 Aankhen`` t/rules/s_perl5_closure.t?
07:50 nothingmuch i think probably under quoting
07:50 Aankhen`` Ah.
07:50 Khisanth shouldn't that be perl6?
07:50 nothingmuch wait, should s:p5/// behave like normal s///?
07:50 Aankhen`` I guess so...
07:50 nothingmuch if it wants to be compatible, then shouldn't the quoting work like it did before?
07:51 nothingmuch or should the translator escape this stuff
07:51 Aankhen`` I think the :P5 only changes the interpretation of the pattern.
07:51 Aankhen`` # The new :perl5 modifier allows Perl 5 regex syntax to be used instead:
07:51 Aankhen``    m:perl5/(?mi)^[a-z]{1,2}(?=\s)/
07:51 Aankhen`` (It does not go so far as to allow you to put your modifiers at the end.)
07:52 nothingmuch okay, fair enough, since the substitution is just like quoted text
07:52 nothingmuch i would put it in one of the quoting tests
07:52 Aankhen`` OK, I'm going to commit my changes to CGI.pm, then I'll write up a test for the closure thing.
07:57 nothingmuch "If file does not graphic or documentation then backup it"
07:57 nothingmuch readable comments... *sigh*
07:57 castaway nice comment
07:59 nothingmuch getHeaderNema
07:59 nothingmuch it takes just as much effort to fix that where it's defined instead of use it this way
07:59 nothingmuch gah!
08:07 Aankhen`` Wow, svnbot6 is slow at picking up commits today...
08:07 svnbot6 r3868, Aankhen++ | * rearranged parameters for &CGI::header to be more like P5 &CGI::header; made signature more specific.
08:07 svnbot6 r3868, Aankhen++ | * added support for extra headers in &CGI::header.
08:07 svnbot6 r3868, Aankhen++ | * fleshed out &CGI::redirect to support all parameters supported by P5 &CGI::redirect.
08:07 svnbot6 r3868, Aankhen++ | * updated header.t.
08:07 svnbot6 r3868, Aankhen++ | * added redirect.t to test &CGI::redirect.
08:07 svnbot6 r3869, Aankhen++ | * fixed a few tests broken by my previous commit.
08:07 * Aankhen`` shuts up.
08:08 Aankhen`` OK, examples/memory_game/ doesn't seem to be using header() or redirect().
08:08 Aankhen`` nothingmuch >> Where do the quoting tests go?
08:09 nothingmuch t/operators/quoting.t
08:09 chady has left
08:09 nothingmuch but that might not be 100% correct
08:09 Aankhen`` Ah.
08:09 nothingmuch it might be better placed in t/syntax/string_parsing.t
08:09 nothingmuch or t/rules/s_perl5
08:09 nothingmuch oh, i dunno
08:09 Aankhen`` Hrm.
08:10 Aankhen`` I think this is mainly testing interpolation in regular strings.
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08:10 Aankhen`` I'll add some in the rules section as well which specifically test manipulating and interpolating $0, $1, etc.
08:10 nothingmuch look in those files to find tests similar to what you wrote
08:10 nothingmuch and see if it fits there
08:10 nothingmuch i didn't understand that sentac
08:10 nothingmuch nce
08:11 Aankhen`` Which one?
08:11 nothingmuch "I'll add some ..."
08:11 Aankhen`` Ah.
08:12 Aankhen`` I will add some tests to t/rules/s_perl5 (or whichever file is appropriate) which specifically test stuff like s:P5/foo(bar)/{ ucfirst(lc($0)); }/ and so on.
08:12 Aankhen`` But first... lunch. ;-)
08:12 Aankhen`` BBIAB.
08:13 nothingmuch bon appetite
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08:54 Aankhen`` Weird... "is export returns Str" won't work; you must use "returns Str is export".
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08:57 vcv- I'm sure autrijus had it fixed before you hit enter
08:58 clkao *yawn*
08:58 clkao now let's see if my p5 tests pass
08:58 Aankhen`` Heh.
08:59 Aankhen`` Is the latest trend to use try { ... } in place of eval_is()?
08:59 svnbot6 r3870, Aankhen++ | * &CGI::header: use method call interpolation to uppercase letters.
08:59 svnbot6 r3870, Aankhen++ | * re-added "returns Str" and "is export" traits for &CGI::escapeHTML and &CGI::unescapeHTML.
09:01 clkao (VType (mkType "Class"),(mkType "Type"),(mkType "Class"))
09:01 clkao debug message!
09:01 Aankhen`` I couldn't figure out why that appears.
09:06 nothingmuch Aankhen`` eval_is is for string eval
09:06 nothingmuch as for try - i think lives_ok is a better choice
09:06 nothingmuch unless the return value is needed
09:07 Aankhen`` Ah.
09:07 Aankhen`` Hrm.
09:07 Aankhen`` OK.
09:08 nothingmuch wow!
09:08 * nothingmuch wrote his first line of C++ code that actually worked like he wanted on the first try
09:08 nothingmuch i think i'm starting to make progress
09:08 Aankhen`` Congrats!
09:08 Aankhen`` ;-)
09:09 castaway grats nm!
09:09 nothingmuch and this involved weird ifdefs and extern char * foo
09:09 nothingmuch i hate lousy design... it's so permanent
09:10 Aankhen`` lives_ok takes a code block?
09:10 nothingmuch afaik yes
09:10 nothingmuch but i haven't used it
09:10 Aankhen`` OK.
09:15 castaway lives_ok sounds fun :)
09:15 svnbot6 r3871, Aankhen++ | * actually added ext/CGI/t/redirect.t
09:16 vcv- nothingmuch: wait until you write a 1000line library and have it work on the first try :p
09:18 nothingmuch vcv-: i hope to have less C++ experience than that
09:20 vcv- smart move
09:28 Juerd http://fun.sdinet.de/pics/raid.jpg
09:32 Aankhen`` GODDANGIT
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09:35 Aankhen`` It was working perfectly fine... then I added tests for French quotes and it started giving errors.
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09:50 Aankhen`` Bleh.
09:50 Aankhen`` Nevermind. -_-
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10:02 svnbot6 r3872, Aankhen++ | * added t/builtins/lists/enum.t
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10:49 clkao autrijus: ping me if you are back
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11:05 svnbot6 r3873, iblech++ | * EOL at EOF added to times.t.
11:05 svnbot6 r3873, iblech++ | * Usual svn properties added to src/perl[56] and t/pugsbugs/namespaces.t.
11:05 svnbot6 r3873, iblech++ | * Changed times.t to treat a diff of 0.0001 as 0.
11:05 svnbot6 r3873, iblech++ | * Added a diag() to sleep.t and removed n_ge and n_le in favor of &infix:«>=»
11:05 svnbot6 r3873, iblech++ |   and &infix:«<=».
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11:32 svnbot6 r3874, iblech++ | hyper.t -- EVALed two tests and added two new ones.
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11:48 svnbot6 r3875, iblech++ | * unTODO a succeeding test of oo/class/basic.t.
11:48 svnbot6 r3875, iblech++ | * Comment out the debugging message when creating objects using "new".
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12:24 svnbot6 r3876, autrijus++ | * Fix eval_perl5 building on Mac OS X
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13:05 * Juerd is compiling a kernel
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13:05 Juerd for feather
13:05 svnbot6 r3877, scook0++ | * Minor English tweaks to PA02
13:05 svnbot6 r3877, scook0++ | * Fixed a comment that was confusing Haddock
13:05 Juerd Installation so far went well
13:05 Juerd I used this machine to test my new installation script, automating the procedure at juerd.nl/debianraid
13:06 Juerd http://juerd.nl/files/raidthingy.pl
13:06 scook0 Juerd: so the name is chosen? I was having so much fun learning 'onion' in different languages... :)
13:06 Juerd It was fun, but wildly off topic :)
13:06 scook0 aye
13:06 Juerd I think that was the largest off topic subthread p6l has known so far :)
13:07 Juerd (Oh, re raidthingy.pl, it's very messy - I blame my not having coded for a long time)
13:08 nothingmuch Juerd: know how to combine raid 1 on root with LVM?
13:09 nothingmuch as for a clean installer, when we have tuits stevan or I will release something we wrote for that
13:10 Juerd I have no LVM experience yet
13:10 Juerd I try to stay away from anything that makes a drive unreadable without tools
13:11 Juerd scook0: Feel free to start a subthread of multilingual feathers :)
13:14 Juerd feather boots!
13:14 Juerd and works!
13:14 Juerd woo.
13:14 Juerd The first raidthingy-installed box is a fact.
13:15 nothingmuch Juerd: if you're interested my C++ brain is fried, so I'll work on releng for Verby
13:15 nothingmuch mostly documentation
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13:17 Juerd releng?
13:17 Juerd verby?
13:17 Juerd what are you talking about?
13:17 nothingmuch verby is that installer framework i was talking about
13:17 nothingmuch and releng is release engineering
13:17 nothingmuch autrijus uses it here occasionally, so I thought it was well known
13:22 wolverian Juerd: why are you compiling the kernel? the standard debian kernel didn't fit?
13:22 theorbtw1 (Compiling kernels)++
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13:27 Juerd Oh.
13:28 Juerd wolverian: Standard linux kernels, not limited to debian, suck.
13:28 Juerd wolverian: They are bloated and inefficient.
13:28 Juerd And having the very core of a system be inefficient is stupid :)
13:28 wolverian Juerd: hmm. okay. do you have any tips/urls for me to look at if I want to recompile my kernel? I do know _how_ to recompile, but I don't know what I should be optimising.
13:28 Juerd Besides that, a moduleless kernel is much more secure, because almost every rootkit out there makes use of kernel modules
13:29 Juerd wolverian: Just include everything you need, and exclude everything you don't. :)
13:29 wolverian Juerd: right. :) reminds me of my FreeBSD days.
13:29 Juerd wolverian: See step 15 at juerd.nl/debianraid for rough instructions
13:29 theorbtw1 wolverian: Make sure your CPU and memory size is set correctly, and if you need SMP or not.
13:29 dvtoo it's not that hard to load modules with /dev/kmem ;)
13:29 Juerd dvtoo: True.
13:29 dvtoo if someone has local access to your box, you've already lost
13:30 theorbtw1 dvtoo: He's giving out ssh accounts; that's the point of the box.
13:30 theorbtw1 is now known as theorbtwo
13:30 wolverian Juerd: does grsecurity have any downsides currently?
13:30 dvtoo oh, sorry, he's just kind of screwed then ;)
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13:33 Juerd wolverian: Restrictions often make users complain.
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13:37 autrijus jabbot: seen clkao
13:37 jabbot autrijus: clkao was seen 1 hours 35 minutes 30 seconds ago
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13:38 autrijus rehi all :)
13:39 clkao *yawn*
13:40 Limbic_Region anyone seen chip?
13:40 Limbic_Region salutations all btw
13:41 autrijus clkao: how's life? perlembed working for ya?
13:41 theorbtwo Is there a reason that PUGS_EMBED="perl5" isn't the default?
13:41 Juerd one of these: gcc vim-perl zsh ghc-cvs ssh
13:41 Juerd depends on X!
13:41 Juerd argh. :)
13:42 Juerd theorbtwo: You may not have libperl installed
13:42 clkao bwah
13:42 clkao autrijus: i want the vcode map to sv
13:43 autrijus theorbtwo: no good reason except when the C compilers for GHC and Perl are not the same it'll break -- also what Juerd said -- but you can apply a similar probe like parrot's -- in that case might as well enable parrot by default when it's probed -- can you help hacking it in?
13:43 autrijus clkao: you mean calling into p6?
13:44 autrijus clkao: or exporting p5 funcs in p6?
13:44 * theorbtwo tries it, and gets a bunch of syntax errors.
13:44 clkao see my p5/method.t ?
13:44 nothingmuch autrijus: what implications does perlembed have on perl from GHC?
13:44 nothingmuch is the bridge very pugs specific?
13:44 autrijus nothingmuch: no, the bridge is complete generic
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13:44 autrijus see src/perl5/*
13:44 nothingmuch because i would *love* to use perl and haskell together
13:45 nothingmuch this is an excuse to start coding that Pesto project
13:45 autrijus and Pugs.Embed.Perl5
13:45 autrijus both are not specific to pugs
13:45 autrijus I mean they don't use any datatypes in AST
13:45 nothingmuch how close is Inline::GHC?
13:45 gaal|work shoudl PUGS_EMBED be perl5 or parrot? :)
13:45 autrijus I was asking for opinions regarding whether to work on perlembed or ghcembed
13:45 autrijus gaal|work: you can put both in -- separate by some isPunct
13:46 nothingmuch autrijus: i'll try to add perl5 to embed later today
13:46 autrijus nothingmuch: I was leaning to ghcembed aka Inline::GHC, but clkao showed up and proved that perlembed is trivial
13:46 autrijus nothingmuch: cool
13:46 autrijus nothingmuch: so I'm afraid I'm going with perlembed for now
13:46 nothingmuch but it's lag baaomer, so no promises on tuits
13:46 autrijus ghcembed can wait ;)
13:46 autrijus that's fine
13:46 nothingmuch it's not really lag baaomer
13:46 theorbtwo Oh, at the least, we should make the messages at Makefile.PL time be more obvious -- since the p5 one says "containing", and the parrot one says "equal to"... IIRC.
13:46 nothingmuch it's the work party for thereof
13:46 * theorbtwo wonders what ghcembed is.
13:46 autrijus theorbtwo: sure. fix away!
13:46 autrijus theorbtwo: Inline::GHC
13:46 autrijus via hs-plugins
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13:47 gaal|work perlbot nopaste
13:47 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
13:47 pasteling "gaal" at 212.179.43.225 pasted "make errors / linux" (32 lines, 2.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/10405
13:48 gaal|work oh, does perl5_embed require hs-plugins?
13:49 autrijus nope
13:49 autrijus hm, seems ghc has different 64bitness than perl5
13:49 gaal|work hmm. the crypt error is prolly some missing ssl lib / dev package, but i don' tknow about the others.
13:49 autrijus are you compiling  both with the same gcc?
13:49 gaal|work ghc-6.4 btw.
13:50 gaal|work err, 6.5 snapshot actually
13:50 clkao autrijus: so, if you can bind vcode into a cv
13:50 clkao or some special bless sv
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13:51 gaal|work my perl5 is not 64bit. how do i check my ghc?
13:53 theorbtwo I get similar errors, and I'm on an ia32 chip, so shouldn't be any 64-bittyness.
13:53 theorbtwo (Unless you mean filesizes?)
13:53 gaal|work my system gcc is 3.3.6-5; does 'ghc-cvs' on debian come with its own gcc like it does on msys?
13:53 nothingmuch i think this is the largefile support complaining
13:53 gaal|work dpkg -L ghc-cvs | grep gcc # it doesn't
13:54 gaal|work well, i do have largefie in my p5.
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13:55 svnbot6 r3878, iblech++ | Parse [+]«.
13:55 svnbot6 r3879, iblech++ | Main.hs -- die() should output correct utf-8.
13:55 svnbot6 r3880, iblech++ | Pugs.Prim -- readline() should read utf-8.
13:55 svnbot6 r3880, iblech++ | (This was the real reason why svnbot6 outputted funny chars instead of the
13:55 svnbot6 r3880, iblech++ | correct ones!)
13:55 Juerd After unpacking 43.3MB of additional disk space will be used.
13:55 Juerd and that's just emacs
13:55 Juerd WHOA.
13:56 autrijus iblech++ # svnbot6
13:56 nothingmuch as they say, emacs is a wonderful OS, it only needs a good editor
13:56 Juerd When emacs is installed, I have all requested software there
13:57 autrijus and mozilla is a wonderful OS, it only needs a good browser
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13:57 Juerd I like firefox
13:57 autrijus ...which is called firefox, so it's no longer funny
13:57 Juerd heh
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14:01 gaal|work googling suggests -DGNU_SOURCE etc., but we have that.
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14:07 autrijus clkao: ok, got it. will make it work
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14:11 Limbic_Region [plus plus] autrijus, clkao
14:12 Limbic_Region that 3 hour hack yesterday gave me a lot of advocacy ammunition this morning
14:12 theorbtwo For l~r: autrijus++ clkao++
14:12 Juerd users are created
14:13 * Juerd preps for the voyage to the data centre
14:13 Juerd But first, let's see if pugs compiles with the currently installed tools
14:14 autrijus Juerd: with embed_perl5 :)
14:14 autrijus EMBED_PUGS=perl5 that is -- also check src/Pugs/pugs_config.h to see it's really set to 1
14:14 autrijus Limbic_Region++ # advocacy
14:16 Juerd real    1m12.981s
14:16 Juerd unoptimized
14:16 Juerd autrijus: Sorry, no time right now for extensive tests :)
14:16 autrijus k :)
14:16 Juerd autrijus: In a few hours you'll be able to test this yourself
14:16 autrijus yup
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14:19 Limbic_Region the hyper derferencing tests still need a . added, will try to do that tonight (assuming I actually get the cable installed this time)
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14:27 autrijus bbiab.
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14:28 q[merlyn] so 6.2.5 still not working on OSX is known?
14:28 q[merlyn] or does someone want a bug report?
14:29 theorbtwo Uff -- if I do PUGS_EMBED="perl5" perl Makefile.PL; make (errors), then perl Makefile.PL; make -- it still errors (differently).
14:29 theorbtwo I don't have time to track it down now, though.
14:29 theorbtwo q[merlyn]: if this is tiger, search in the README for "tiger" -- there is a workaround.
14:29 Juerd I'm off
14:30 theorbtwo If it's not that problem, then AFAIK it's not a known problem.
14:30 Juerd Bye!
14:30 Juerd (feather will now travel to Schuberg Philis (http://www.schubergphilis.nl/)
14:30 Juerd )
14:30 q[merlyn] ahh.  gcc 3.x not 4.
14:30 q[merlyn] darn it. :)
14:31 * q[merlyn] types make all test install
14:32 Limbic_Region q[merlyn] - out of curiosity, are you writing any p6 code or just verifying that it is building and trying out examples
14:33 * PerlJam is continually shocked at just how much perl6 pugs understands.
14:34 Limbic_Region yeah - you and me both
14:34 Limbic_Region I find some piece of p5 code I have written and think - no way this will work
14:34 Limbic_Region and other than working around bugs - it does
14:35 Limbic_Region I am however waiting on a few features for my latest project
14:35 Limbic_Region specifically hyper dereferencing
14:38 theorbtwo Hm, Makefile.PL should possibly notice what version of GCC it is using.
14:38 clkao autrijus: and you need to give me some example how to hold and use an pugs val in C
14:39 theorbtwo (In the same way that it now notices what ghc it is using.)
14:39 theorbtwo Or possibly just print a warning whenever $^O says we've got an OSX machine.
14:39 theorbtwo (What is $^O on OSX?)
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14:40 q[merlyn] I'm mostly tracking it for now
14:40 q[merlyn] I want to be more involved, but timing is bad
14:41 * Limbic_Region was just an inquiring mind
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14:47 nothingmuch theorbtwo: 'darwin'
14:49 q[merlyn] OK, selecting gcc 3.3 didn't help
14:49 q[merlyn] still dies in samespot
14:49 q[merlyn] right after "Compiling Main" during "Linking..."
14:50 theorbtwo Thanks.
14:51 q[merlyn] ahh.  it's picking up /opt/local/lib - how do I tell it to not do that?
14:51 Limbic_Region q[merlyn] - perhaps nopaste the error
14:52 q[merlyn] is there a nopaste here?
14:52 integral http://sial.org/pbot/
14:52 Limbic_Region perlbot nopaste
14:53 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
14:53 Limbic_Region there is a perlbot q[merlyn] - it knows lots of stuff
14:53 pasteling "q[merlyn]" at 200.179.244.157 pasted "Linking ... /usr/bin/ld: warni" (11 lines, 1.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/10407
14:53 q[merlyn] nothing in my env contains /opt/local/lib
14:53 q[merlyn] so I don't know where that's set
14:54 q[merlyn] Oh.  it's ghc
14:54 q[merlyn] ghc is built in /opt/local
14:54 integral you don't use the pre-build binaries?   They're /usr/local
14:55 q[merlyn] so I have a libdl in /opt/local/lib and in /usr/lib
14:55 q[merlyn] I try not to install prebuilt binaries
14:55 q[merlyn] not when source is available
14:55 q[merlyn] even then, it'd probably conflict
14:56 Limbic_Region http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=460344 # plea for more better FMs
14:56 integral hmm, ghc -v5 prints a lot of config info
14:58 q[merlyn] Hmm.  my "port" command appears to be broken too
14:58 integral hmm, you have a libdl in your /opt/local/lib ?
14:58 q[merlyn] this is not good
14:58 q[merlyn] Yeah, I built ghc from darwinports because fink didn't have it.
14:58 vcv has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:59 * q[merlyn] reinstalls darwinports just in case
14:59 knewt has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:00 q[merlyn] stupid "make isntall" doesn't do a "make"
15:01 * q[merlyn] retries first with "make" again
15:01 q[merlyn] (distros where make install breaks because "make" hasn't been done)--
15:02 q[merlyn] mandatory makefile line: "install: all"
15:02 theorbtwo Um, you did type "install" correctly, right?
15:02 q[merlyn] Yes
15:02 q[merlyn] and it bombed because something wasn't made that "make all" makes
15:02 Limbic_Region YES - an advocacy victory
15:02 Limbic_Region http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=460345
15:03 Limbic_Region "Well that's amazing. I guess I have to check out Pugs now."
15:06 gaal|work what platform is diotalevi on?
15:07 q[merlyn] Hmm.  ports suggests that ghc 6.4 is stable, but 6.5 is devel
15:07 q[merlyn] is that true?
15:08 Limbic_Region gaal - I have asked several times and I don't remember
15:08 Limbic_Region would you like me to ask again?
15:09 q[merlyn] ahh.  ghc-devel doesn't depend on dlopen, so that will probably use the /usr/lib version
15:10 Limbic_Region gaal|work - see my reply at http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=460347
15:11 theorbtwo That's around right, merlyn.  Uses the same scheme as the linux kernel, more or less.
15:11 knewt has joined #perl6
15:12 * Limbic_Region wanders off
15:12 q[merlyn] Oh, ghc-devel is trying to fetch something from cse.ogi.edu, and failing
15:12 sproingie has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:13 q[merlyn] I guess I'm back to 6.4
15:13 pdcawley has joined #perl6
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15:14 pdcawley "Luke and Damian provided the sanity" <-- What's wrong with this sentence?
15:17 mkirank has joined #perl6
15:17 q[merlyn] Hmm.  out of time to do more downloads etc.
15:17 * q[merlyn] wanders off
15:18 PerlJam pdcawley: Luke and Damian are on the wrong side of the sanity
15:18 vitaminmoo has quit IRC ("Leaving")
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15:24 Limbic_Region gaal|work - I'm using NetBSD 2.0.2 (the latest) on an SMP Sparc. "sparc-netbsd-thread-multi"
15:24 Limbic_Region that was diotalevi's reply
15:24 gaal|work sorry, was away
15:24 gaal|work interesting platform
15:25 Limbic_Region no worries - I actually got it in a post at the Monastery so I won't have to keep bugging him about it
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16:15 Limbic_Region iblech ping
16:22 * Limbic_Region likes "use:p5 Digest;" as a way of designated p5 module use
16:23 obra if you're going to go that route, why not create a proxy 'perl5' module.
16:23 umbop has joined #perl6
16:23 obra use perl5 DBI;
16:24 * Limbic_Region isn't going any route
16:26 clkao *yawn*
16:31 meppl has joined #perl6
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17:08 Boogie has joined #perl6
17:15 Juerd LADIES AND GENTLEMEN
17:16 Juerd feather.perl6.nl is online!
17:16 gaal yay!
17:16 Juerd If you have requested an account, you may /msg me for your temporary password.
17:16 Juerd (They are preset, and I expect you to change it immediately)
17:16 PerlJam you didn't like carrot?
17:16 Juerd I like it, but I like feather better
17:17 saorge has joined #perl6
17:19 Boogie Hey, it was my suggestion. :) As _I_ remember. ;)
17:20 knewt Juerd: not requested an account yet, can i do that now?
17:20 gaal logged in an password changed.
17:21 gaal crazy npasswd :)
17:21 Juerd knewt: By sending e-mail, yes
17:21 gaal Thanks, Juerd!
17:23 PerlJam Juerd: What are the specs on that machine again?
17:23 Juerd p4 2.4 1024 80r1
17:23 Juerd sata disks
17:24 wolverian are we going to each build our own pugs?
17:24 PerlJam wolverian: I'm sure you could setup an automated build to share with everyone if you like.
17:25 vcv-- has joined #perl6
17:25 wolverian oh, right. :)
17:25 gaal i'll just be posting smoke results there (nicely linked)
17:25 jql has joined #perl6
17:25 Limbic_Region Juerd plus plus btw for pushing to get the community server
17:25 PerlJam Juerd++ for L~R  :)
17:25 Juerd pushing to get? That's one way to put it :)
17:26 vcv has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:26 wolverian hmm. no svn, only svn-mirror? :)
17:26 gaal Is L~R's keyboard broken?
17:26 Limbic_Region no gaal
17:26 Juerd wolverian: Well, I hope people will announce where their pugsies and parrots are
17:26 Limbic_Region my client is
17:26 Juerd wolverian: So others can use them
17:26 PerlJam gaal: no, but his client eats +
17:26 gaal lol
17:26 Juerd wolverian: There will be a wiki eventually
17:27 gaal you need a ++ bot
17:27 Limbic_Region the only way I can be here from work is to use cgiirc
17:27 wolverian Juerd: sure, but building and testing pugs is fairly resource intensive, isn't it? it'd be better to have only one pugs. then again, I don't care that much, and it's your box :)
17:27 gaal hmm, doesn't that read "pastebot" in haskell?
17:27 PerlJam Juerd: why eventually?
17:27 Juerd wolverian: You are right.
17:28 Juerd PerlJam: Because I wanted the box online asap, and haven't arranged any documentation apart from the motd yet.
17:28 PerlJam wolverian: Given that people will be using this server to do various things, one of those things might be to build a "special" version of pugs (i.e. testing a particular feature)
17:28 knewt ah, there's a pastebot on this channel. that's good to know
17:28 wolverian PerlJam: yes, of course. that shouldn't be disallowed, probably.
17:28 Juerd wolverian: It may be best to simply symlink /usr/local/bin/pugs to a single pugs
17:28 Juerd wolverian: Will you be building that one?
17:28 Juerd wolverian: Or writing a script to build it periodically?
17:28 Juerd etc.
17:29 wolverian Juerd: I don't know if I have enough tuits for that. never done anything like this before.
17:29 Juerd Ah, well, this is simply enough. I'll do it myself
17:29 PerlJam wolverian: good a time as any to learn!  (screw work and family, you need to play with pugs! ;-)
17:29 wolverian PerlJam: true enough. :)
17:30 Juerd To skip the learning thing:
17:30 Juerd It's a matter of using cron (crontab -e) to set a timer that svn ups and builds.
17:30 wolverian in any case, as Juerd said, it's trivial. simply add a cron job to svn up, make all test install. if you want to get fancy, you'd redirect errors to /etc/motd or so, to let everyone know what is working and what is not
17:30 Juerd nah, on error it simply doesn't make install.
17:30 Limbic_Region cklao ping
17:31 PerlJam Speaking of cklao .... Juerd, are you going to install svk for everyone?
17:31 PerlJam (or delegate appropriately)
17:32 Limbic_Region IIRC, cklao has written Benchmark.pm but hasn't released it yet
17:32 Juerd PerlJam: I've installed whatever debian thinks svk is, system wide.
17:32 * Limbic_Region really would like to have it to benchmark various solutions to his recent project
17:32 PerlJam Juerd++
17:32 PerlJam I may ask for an account yet.
17:33 Juerd You may
17:33 Juerd By e-mail.
17:33 PerlJam (currently I just build on my box at work (lucky me no restrictions there))
17:33 PerlJam though it is a tad annoying when the entire campus drops off the net for 15 minutes at a time (like it did to me last night in the middle of composing an email)
17:34 wolverian sid's svk is up to date.
17:36 RndmTngnt has joined #perl6
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17:39 clkao people
17:39 clkao please learn to spell so my irssi client will hilite
17:39 clkao Limbic_Region: what can i do for you?
17:39 clkao i ugess you will want a shared mirror on the box
17:39 clkao and just tell people to depot map to that one
17:40 Limbic_Region clkao - I don't understand what you mean by "learn to spell so my irssi client will hilite"
17:40 clkao let me know if i can be of any help.
17:40 * clkao &
17:40 clkao you typed cklao
17:40 wolverian Limbic_Region: typing his nick correctly so that he will see the line in his awaylog
17:40 Limbic_Region oh
17:40 clkao anyway &
17:41 * Limbic_Region wants Benchmark.pm clkao is all
17:41 clkao ok ok i will try later tonight
17:41 Limbic_Region http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=458728 # It is S-L-O-W
17:41 Limbic_Region but since there are many ways to skin a cat, I want to see which ones are fastest
17:42 Limbic_Region great - thanks clkao
17:45 dada has quit IRC ("Schneeschlag")
17:46 gaal feather users, please create a ~/README
17:50 pupilzeng has quit IRC ("Bye")
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17:54 gaal wtf? the "struct dirent" still happens with ghc snapshot :(
17:54 gaal uh, the __hscore_d_name problem that is.
17:56 revdiablo Limbic_Region: thanks for lurking on that Meditation I posted, and replying to folks. I barely had the energy to read most of the replies, much less reply back to them. :)
17:57 japhy has joined #perl6
17:57 q[merlyn] weird.  installing ghc from ports is building Perl 5.8 from scratch.
17:58 japhy the perl6 summary's links don't work :(
17:58 q[merlyn] so now I'll have two copies of Perl 5.8 on my disk. :(
17:58 * gaal dislikes link shorteners
17:58 shapr has joined #perl6
17:58 q[merlyn] purl?
17:58 Limbic_Region revdiablo - I didn't do an exhaustive set of replies
17:58 Limbic_Region just the ones I felt warranted a proper nudge
17:58 shapr Purle: Permanent Uniform Resource Locator, a service of OCLC in Virginia
17:58 gaal merlyn, i have five of 'em :(
17:59 revdiablo Limbic_Region: yeah, but you replied some. I think it's helpful just to keep some activity up
17:59 q[merlyn] wow
17:59 shapr um, Purl
17:59 * Limbic_Region wanders off to a meeting
17:59 q[merlyn] hard to imagine why it would not recognize I have one already
17:59 gaal actually, three p5.6.1 + 2 5.8.x
18:00 q[merlyn] wow
18:00 q[merlyn] "Perl - so good you'll want to install it 2, er, 3, er, 4, I mean 5 times!~"
18:01 gaal actually, i just compiled one the other day, and i *thought* it was the 3rd instance -- but i just discovered ghc comes with its own perl
18:01 mauke 5.6.1, 5.8.0, 5.8.1, 5.8.3, 5.8.4, 5.8.5, 5.8.6
18:01 mauke I win
18:01 gaal and its own gcc :)
18:01 q[merlyn] heh
18:01 gaal mauke wins :)
18:01 revdiablo mauke always wins
18:01 mauke oh, and perl1
18:01 gaal but i have access to a machine with....
18:01 gaal perl4 :
18:01 gaal oy
18:01 gaal ok ok ok
18:01 gaal you WIN.
18:02 q[merlyn] ugh!
18:02 q[merlyn] p4!
18:02 q[merlyn] I remember that
18:02 q[merlyn] and p3... and p2... and p1.
18:02 gaal i bet you do.
18:02 gaal you remember p3?
18:02 q[merlyn] Hell.  "I wrote the book" on p4. :)
18:02 mauke I have access to a machine with p4, p5.002, p5.005 and p5.005_02
18:02 gaal was there a p3?
18:03 mauke I think it's interesting that p5.8.6 passes p1's test suite
18:03 gaal lol
18:03 q[merlyn] of course there was a p3
18:03 gaal with warnings, i bet, about @ ?
18:04 mauke no warnings
18:04 mauke the tests don't "use warnings" :-)
18:04 gaal sounds like a short test suite
18:05 gaal ah :)
18:05 Juerd feather is offline, temporarily, because its connectivity is somehow borked
18:05 Juerd the fiber ring doesn't like this box.
18:05 mauke perl1 doesn't even have -w
18:05 orevdiabl has joined #perl6
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18:05 orevdiabl is now known as revdiablo
18:06 gaal eeek! eerk!
18:06 gaal Found = in conditional, should be == at /usr/share/perl/5.8.4/File/Path.pm line 266.
18:06 gaal Bareword "getcwd" not allowed while "strict subs" in use at /usr/share/perl/5.8.4/File/Path.pm line 266.
18:07 gaal lose, lose
18:08 ninereasons hi shapr
18:08 shapr 9r 9r
18:09 ninereasons I added a quote to your perlbash... er. Haskell quote page yesterday :)
18:09 shapr Oh really?
18:09 shapr Oh, that's a good quote.
18:09 shapr It's not really my page, I just added 80% of the quotes.
18:09 ninereasons :-)
18:09 shapr All bad guys listen to Reason
18:10 shapr That is an excellent quote.
18:10 ninereasons yes, I thought so.
18:10 shapr I don't often get in the way of depleted uranium slivers moving at a noticeable fraction of c.
18:12 shapr I'm actually recruiting TMR authors for TMR3 right now, was wondering if any pugs people would like to write an article about their experiencese.
18:13 clkao autrijus: *yawn* any news for me
18:18 clkao autrijus: so, foreign export call invoke.. blablah ?
18:25 * q[merlyn] continues to build ghc again, this time without dlopen
18:25 q[merlyn] howver this time with its own private copy of Perl5.8.6
18:26 shapr It would be fun to get Pugs booting on the bare metal via House.
18:27 simcop2387 has joined #perl6
18:32 q[merlyn] & spending another day in rainy Rio De Janiero
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18:52 wolverian gaal: why a ~/README? as in, what do I put in it?
18:52 wolverian what I'm doing? :)
18:58 gaal yeah, in lieu of a .plan, i guess
19:14 osfameron has joined #perl6
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19:27 * Limbic_Region is trying not to get his hopes up but can't contain himself - the prospect of actually having net access from home is too much
19:29 clkao summon autrijus
19:29 obra hi clkao!
19:29 Limbic_Region it's 3:30AM - he likely is having a cat nap
19:30 Limbic_Region so you just need to speak a little louder
19:30 Limbic_Region SUMMON autrijus
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19:37 ninereasons iblech, your sub step() in mklivecd.pl is a really nice idea
19:43 wilx Somebody should add the http:// prefix to URIs in topic so that I can just click :)
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20:00 Limbic_Region changes topic to: 6.2.5 released! | Your opinions wanted: http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=459750 | http://pugscode.org <Overview Journal Logs> | http://pugs.kwiki.org
20:00 Limbic_Region wilx - done
20:00 Limbic_Region any reason you didn't do it yourself?
20:08 japhy character classes are a source of grief...
20:08 svnbot6 r3881, Aankhen++ | * basic port of Perl 5 CGI::Util.
20:09 ninereasons I also didn't realize that mortals could do that, Limbic_Region
20:09 Limbic_Region ninereasons - TIAS
20:10 Limbic_Region perlbot TIAS
20:10 perlbot Try It And See: the best way to learn if something works.
20:10 ninereasons Limbic_Region, good advice :)
20:11 Limbic_Region well - one should always apply a good dose of sanity first
20:18 Aankhen`` Does %hash.keys() return a sorted list?
20:18 Limbic_Region TIAS
20:19 Limbic_Region unless of course what you meant to say s/Does/Should/
20:19 Aankhen`` Same difference. :-P
20:20 stevan Aankhen``++ # for taking over the CGI module and adding on to it
20:21 Aankhen`` Thanks. :-) I didn't really take it over though -- I'm just adding whatever I can, and hoping I don't collide with anyone else's changes.
20:21 stevan Aankhen``: oh no,.. its your now :P
20:22 * Aankhen`` 's shoulders sag under the responsibility.
20:22 * stevan feels a little like Tom sawyer :P
20:22 clkao i feel at home reading haskell tutorial
20:22 obra dooom
20:22 osfameron clkao: the haskell for c programmers?
20:23 * obra waits for clkao to start hacking darcs
20:23 clkao no, yaht
20:23 clkao i'm lisp native, btw
20:24 * PerlJam buries clkao under a pile of parentheses
20:24 gugod_ clkao: hello)))))
20:24 clkao emacs helps
20:25 clkao ya, so, it's like lisp without nails plus evil inference
20:27 theorbtwo nails?
20:27 mauke (clipped (finger (nails)))
20:27 obra "it came before sails"
20:28 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("tiuq\")
20:28 Aankhen`` Strange.
20:29 Aankhen`` I have: $string = q/bar"bar/; $string ~~ s:P5:g/"/&quot;/;
20:29 Aankhen`` And I get: *** Can't modify constant item: VUndef
20:29 clkao i'm only 25% through
20:29 clkao but dinner time
20:29 wilx Hmm.
20:30 wilx Lim...bah, he left.
20:31 Aankhen`` Ah, nevermind.
20:31 Aankhen`` I fixed it.
20:31 Aankhen`` "is rw" is a dangerous tool... ;-)
20:32 japhy heh.
20:32 japhy perl 6 rules are supposed to be one-pass-compiled, right?
20:32 japhy as opposed to Perl 5 regexes which require two passes
20:32 theorbtwo Yes.
20:33 japhy das ist gud.
20:33 theorbtwo (Though I don't think p5 REs strictly require two-pass parsing, they are presently parsed that way.)
20:33 * theorbtwo wonders what to do.
20:33 japhy they do, because backrefs and octal escapes are identical
20:34 japhy and because, the way it's set up, the compiler needs to know the regex's size ahead of time
20:34 theorbtwo Ah.  The first sounds like a good reason.
20:35 theorbtwo (Octal escapes require a o in perl6.)  The second isn't a real requirement, it's just the way it's currently done.
20:35 japhy yeah, I know about the second
20:35 japhy octal escapes are \o... now?
20:35 japhy didn't see that in ASE05 :(
20:35 theorbtwo I think they are...
20:35 PerlJam japhy: I believe the goals are one-pass with minimal lookahead and no backtracking if we can help it.  or something like that.
20:36 japhy it's \0 in the docs I've seen, orb
20:36 Aankhen`` Octal escapes are \0123...
20:36 Aankhen`` Yeh.
20:36 Aankhen`` And you can use \0[123] for disambiguation.
20:36 japhy perljam - there's only very little look-ahead needed.
20:36 PerlJam perl6 won't have \1 \2, etc back refs
20:36 * Aankhen`` ponders whether to shift url_encode and url_decode to CGI::Util.
20:37 japhy the cases I can think of off the top of my head are '@array' vs '@array :=' and '<[abc]>' vs. '<[a-c]>'
20:38 Aankhen`` '^' vs. '^^'?
20:38 japhy I need to know ahead of time if a variable is being "used" or "bound"
20:38 japhy aanken - no, that's a separate issue, the way I parse
20:38 Aankhen`` OK.
20:38 japhy and I need to know if a character in a character class is standalone or part of a range
20:38 japhy oh, and the range is .. not -
20:38 japhy oops
20:38 svnbot6 r3882, Aankhen++ | * added tests for CGI::Util.
20:38 svnbot6 r3882, Aankhen++ | * fixed svn:mime-type property for ext/CGI/lib/CGI/Util.pm
20:38 svnbot6 r3882, Aankhen++ | * fixed &CGI::Util::simple_escape
20:40 Aankhen`` Darn... porting &expires will require developing a familiarity with the time functions.
20:42 theorbtwo I could have sworn we decided that numbers were 0o123, and the string escape was \o123...
20:42 * theorbtwo sighs.
20:43 theorbtwo Making a leading 0 octal is horrible huffmanisation -- it takes legal syntax for numbers, and steals it away for something very rarely used.
20:43 Aankhen`` Anyone feel like implementing gmtime()?
20:43 PerlJam theorbtwo: I believe that $Larry ruled on that on p6l and that the answer was different than what's currently in the AESs
20:44 * theorbtwo sighs -- somebody should start indexing these things.
20:44 PerlJam Aankhen``: Actually, I felt like it earlier today, but then the feeling passed :)
20:44 theorbtwo Otherwise nobody can tell what's going on without reading every message that goes through p6l.
20:44 * Aankhen`` mumbles about doggone fickle programmers.
20:46 * theorbtwo mumbles about doggone fickle language designers.
20:46 theorbtwo Hm, "theorbtwo".chars == "Aankhen``".chars
20:46 Aankhen`` Indeed.
20:47 PerlJam theorbtwo: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/per​l.perl6.language/browse_thread/thread/3​630972c1f5fe7c3/7388cba408b399d0?q=octa​l&amp;rnum=3&amp;hl=en#7388cba408b399d0
20:50 theorbtwo Ah, good.
20:51 Arathorn has joined #perl6
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20:58 * theorbtwo wonders if L~R's internet is working at home.
20:58 vcv has joined #perl6
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21:03 * wolverian wonders where Larry has disappeared
21:04 PerlJam He's probably working to pay the rent and put food on the table etc.
21:04 wolverian hm. yeah. sorry, I sounded stupid.
21:04 japhy what's with $Larry and @Larry?
21:04 wolverian (I'm in a situation where I don't have to worry about such things, if that's any excuse.)
21:04 japhy wolv - you're homeless?
21:05 wolverian no, just unemployed. :)
21:05 japhy heheh
21:06 PerlJam japhy: $Larry is *the* Larry,  @Larry is the entire cabal (Luke, Chip/Dan, Pm, chromatic, Damian, etc.)
21:07 integral Not that there *is* a cabal though...
21:07 japhy ah, gotchya.
21:07 japhy  push @Larry, 'japhy';
21:07 * japhy disappears
21:08 japhy I really should've gotten involved two years ago.  *sigh*
21:09 * PerlJam wonders if chip participates in the weekly conference calls like Dan did (i.e. not at all :)
21:09 PerlJam I wonder if chip even knows about the weekly calls.
21:10 theorbtwo I think Dan considered his job more or less dissepperate from that of the rest of the cabal.
21:10 theorbtwo That is, in a way, a real shame, but it's also quite interesting.
21:10 theorbtwo One of the reasons that parrot has been so slow in being really visibly useful is because it has a very ill-defined mission.
21:11 theorbtwo Pugs has always been written in a way that everything is supposed to be there to get perl6 working as quickly as reasonably possible.
21:12 wolverian pugs has a lot easier job, yes.
21:12 theorbtwo Parrot has always been written to be generally useful... (((and run perl6))) as almost an asside.
21:12 integral a good virtual machine is somewhat different though, it does need more design than Pugs
21:12 PerlJam theorbtwo: Are you on #parrot?
21:12 * PerlJam looks
21:12 theorbtwo Not at the moment.
21:12 wolverian theorbtwo: asside :) (aside)
21:12 PerlJam theorbtwo: but you have been in the past?
21:12 theorbtwo Yes.
21:12 theorbtwo Most of the time, it seemed very very quiet.
21:13 PerlJam theorbtwo: freenode #parrot or magnet #parrot?
21:14 eric256 has joined #perl6
21:14 wolverian hm, is magnet #parrot open to all? :)
21:14 theorbtwo irc.perl.org parrot.
21:14 theorbtwo There's a freenode #parrot?
21:14 wolverian (that is magnet.)
21:15 PerlJam theorbtwo: were you on earlier this week when chip was talking about how he views his mission?
21:16 Aankhen`` G'night.
21:16 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Thus the metric system did not really catch on in the United States, unless you count the increasing popularity of the nine-mi")
21:16 theorbtwo Nope, missed that.
21:19 Arathorn is now known as Aragone
21:19 _metaperl has joined #perl6
21:19 theorbtwo Care to give me a hint?
21:20 PerlJam theorbtwo: unfortunately I don't have it logged (I don't think I do anyway ... hold on ...)
21:21 * integral wonders if pugs/parrot would be faster than p5 for processing his logs
21:21 PerlJam oh good, chip does know about the weekly cabal calls.
21:22 PerlJam theorbtwo: anyway, I wish I could paraphrase better but words are failing me at the moment.
21:23 AtnNn since diamonds dont do globbing anymore, what does?
21:23 wolverian glob(), I think.
21:23 PerlJam theorbtwo: suffice to say that chip views his job not as "finishing parrot" as much as "continuing with the general plan even if it means bad things"
21:24 PerlJam where "bad things" could be scrapping loads of already done work (chip would not do this lightly of course)
21:24 coet has joined #perl6
21:25 PerlJam the impression I got was that he feels slightly captive by earlier design decisions.
21:25 integral is leo the only person currently coding on parrot?
21:25 theorbtwo Ugh.
21:25 PerlJam integral: define "coding on parrot" a little more :-)
21:26 integral err, well writing C code, that gets checked into svn, and gets parrot closer to being "finished"
21:26 PerlJam If you mean "writing C code to implement parrot", then he's certainly still the number one committer.
21:26 PerlJam I don't think he's the only one though
21:27 integral it seems a shame that such an exciting idea isn't really being hacked on
21:28 Juerd connectivity problems disappeard magically
21:28 Juerd feather's up again
21:28 Juerd have fun!
21:28 integral Juerd: have you emailed passwords to those who've asked for accounts?
21:28 Juerd no
21:28 Juerd irc people can /msg me
21:28 Juerd other people will have to wait longer
21:29 * integral decides to wait since he's got exams 8-)
21:40 clkao sadly im learning pugs guts very quickly
21:42 PerlJam in the last 100 revisions to parrot there have been 10 committers.  including pmichuad and autrijus
21:42 clkao oh no! autrijus touches C code
21:42 clkao that brings segfault!
21:43 eric256 i think the pugs website needs stats show like that....x commits in last day, x commites in last day, average commites / committer ;)
21:43 PerlJam 40 revisions by leo, 20 by bernhard, 14 by autrijus, 9 by pmichaud, 9 by particle, the rest have < 4
21:45 theorbtwo That sounds like a better spread then pugs.
21:45 svnbot6 r3883, autrijus++ | * change -DPUGS_EMBED_PERL5 to -DPUGS_HAVE_PERL5 to agree
21:45 svnbot6 r3883, autrijus++ |   with HSPLUGINS and PARROT; also remove the obsolete and
21:45 svnbot6 r3883, autrijus++ |   troublesome code in config_h.pl.
21:45 clkao eek!
21:45 ijoyce has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:46 integral particle?
21:46 theorbtwo Of the last 100 revisions:
21:47 theorbtwo 38  autrijus, 17  iblech, 9  Aankhen, 7  clkao, rest <= 5.
21:47 theorbtwo svn log -r3783:3883 |grep '^r[0-9]'|cut -d'|' -f2|sort|uniq -c|sort -r
21:47 clkao what, i'm on the list? you suck! more commits!
21:47 PerlJam heh ... total revisions to the parrot tree:  leo:2632, dan:967, scog:476, mrjoltcola:450, sfink:332,simon:289,coke:259, etc.
21:48 PerlJam theorbtwo: gosh your command line looks remarkably similar to mine :-)
21:49 clkao theorbtwo: btw, you can use svk log -l 100
21:49 theorbtwo I don't use svk, clkao.
21:49 clkao i'm so old to look up HEAD and calculate minus 100 in mind.
21:49 PerlJam clkao: Just use head!
21:50 clkao what about HEAD-100 ?
21:50 PerlJam svn log | grep '^r[0-9]' | head -100l | ...
21:50 clkao ya, network is also cheap these days.
21:51 autrijus greetings!
21:52 Juerd feather has global pugs now
21:52 Juerd rebuilt every 15 minutes
21:52 autrijus clkao: so you've read PA02?
21:52 clkao no not yet. i've skimming some code... i'm very sleepy today
21:52 autrijus that's fine. what segfaulting C code did I introduce?
21:52 clkao autrijus: so, export foriegn ccall should work?
21:52 mj41 has joined #perl6
21:53 clkao was j/k :)
21:53 autrijus clkao: "foreign export ccall"
21:53 autrijus ahh.
21:53 integral Juerd: how fast can it rebuild pugs (un)optimizede?
21:53 autrijus but yeah it should work
21:53 clkao so
21:53 clkao export eval's apply function
21:54 autrijus how do you construct Exp from C space?
21:54 autrijus writing simple strings?
21:54 Juerd integral: 1:12 minutes, if nobody else does anything
21:54 autrijus and I can read in back using haskell Read?
21:54 autrijus that I can do
21:54 clkao and need some code to hide vcode and other Type in sv
21:54 Juerd integral: without parrot and perl5
21:54 Juerd integral: unoptimized
21:54 autrijus Juerd++ # feather!
21:55 autrijus is feather dyndns or staticip?
21:56 integral that's very nice :-)
21:56 svnbot6 r3884, autrijus++ | * handle perl5-land AUTOLOAD.
21:56 autrijus ok, try http://www.perlcabal.org/ ? :)
21:57 autrijus perlcabal.org and no.perlcabal.org itself are CNAMEed to to feather as well.
21:57 autrijus so we get http://perlcabal.org/~autrijus/ URLs :D
21:58 clkao autrijus: so, little exercise. say we have a function in later.c. run_later(), takes vcode and args, returning an opaque object. and run_me() taking what run_later() returns and invoke that vcode. how would you do that?
21:58 Juerd autrijus: see motd :)
21:58 Juerd autrijus: Although that's no longer true, still use the hostname only.
21:58 autrijus Juerd: what is my password again? :)
21:59 Juerd autrijus: again?
22:00 autrijus Juerd: if it's not set yet, please set it to http://autrijus.org/tmp/id_dsa.pub
22:00 Juerd You can do that yourself
22:00 autrijus but I can't remove my password :)
22:00 autrijus I mean, like, completely
22:00 autrijus but that's fine
22:00 autrijus thanks!
22:01 * autrijus reads motd
22:01 autrijus sure, I'm now using CNAMEs. strange how registerfly lets you use CNAME even for the domain itself
22:02 clkao autrijus: tell me about the above before i fall asleep :P
22:02 Juerd autrijus: set it to something complex that you won't remember.
22:02 autrijus clkao: run_later will obviously just contain a struct to the vcode and args
22:02 autrijus clkao: and run_me will feed them to apply
22:03 autrijus Juerd: sure
22:03 clkao ya, i mean how are they represented in c land?
22:03 clkao if you can have that implemented i can make the final connect :)
22:04 autrijus clkao: see
22:04 autrijus typedef void *HsStablePtr;  
22:04 autrijus that's how all haskell stableptrs look at C land
22:04 autrijus so I'll just use that.
22:04 autrijus with
22:04 autrijus newStablePtr :: a -> IO (StablePtr a)
22:04 autrijus I can make any haskell type into a stableptr
22:05 autrijus for you to put into C structs
22:05 autrijus when they are called back, I can deref with
22:05 autrijus deRefStablePtr :: StablePtr a -> IO a
22:05 autrijus that's all. easy as pie
22:05 theorbtwo Hmm...
22:05 theorbtwo perlbot nopaste?
22:05 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
22:06 autrijus clkao: also I'm already beginning to think about doing this without embed libperl
22:06 clkao autrijus: how?
22:06 pasteling "theorbtwo" at 84.245.186.159 pasted "Errors when compiling with perl5 support -- debian" (44 lines, 3.8K) at http://sial.org/pbot/10413
22:07 autrijus clkao: I think almost all of the api can be emulated using socketpair
22:07 Juerd Okay - had enough mcfood, enough hot chocolate
22:07 clkao yuck!
22:07 autrijus clkao: if you can load a SV by id
22:07 autrijus almost everything else is trivial
22:07 Juerd And I've been in these datacentra (both) more than enough for one day
22:07 autrijus and I think that is solvable with Devel::Pointer or Pointer.pm or some such
22:07 Juerd feather is up, connectivity is alright (should you manage to gain root access through some exploit, PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH THE AUTONEGOTIATION)
22:08 autrijus theorbtwo: yeah, gaal reported same thing
22:08 theorbtwo I saw the bottom half before, but not the top half.
22:08 autrijus hm, Inappropriate ioctl for device at util/config_h.pl line 106
22:08 clkao autrijus: you don't want to do that
22:08 iblechbot has quit IRC (Operation timed out)
22:09 autrijus clkao: why not?
22:09 autrijus having to embed perl is a pain, as theorbtwo observed ;)
22:09 clkao autrijus: trust me. this will be more painful
22:09 autrijus I mean, we already bridge external PGE that way
22:09 autrijus ok... anyway we'll get the embed mode figured out first
22:09 clkao oh, you know you want to use Acme::Ref
22:10 autrijus er not really.
22:10 clkao nevermind XD
22:10 autrijus no, ingy's solution is best
22:10 autrijus it is even pure perl
22:10 autrijus Pointer.pm
22:10 clkao so, if you feel bored, implement the above later stuff (with proper gc/refcnt). i can get the rest tomorrow
22:11 autrijus I can handle haskell gc fine
22:11 ingy oh no
22:11 ingy Pointer.pm!
22:11 autrijus I don't really understand refcnt but I can fake
22:11 autrijus hi ingy!
22:11 ingy it was a *joke* ;)
22:11 * clkao trusts no ingry
22:11 autrijus ingy: it is *invaluable*
22:11 ingy /kick clkao
22:11 autrijus ingy: it lets me write RPC perlembed code!
22:12 * obra ponders ingrish
22:12 ingy you are mad
22:12 ingy mad i tell you
22:12 clkao autrijus: make the run_later stub in a sample .c (maybe just in perl5).. so i can carry on
22:12 autrijus I thought that's not news
22:12 autrijus clkao: 'kay
22:12 ingy :)
22:12 clkao *sigh*
22:12 ingy hi clkao
22:12 autrijus clkao: I think pugs guts will be quite transparent to your eyes... real PA02 sometime :)
22:12 ingy clkao: still hate me?
22:13 clkao mainly because of kwiki
22:13 autrijus s/real/read/
22:13 clkao autrijus: it's quite. i decided to make blutwurst from the pugs
22:13 cdpruden has joined #perl6
22:13 autrijus yeah. kwiki is so borderline. if it's worse, we won't feel compelled to suffer; if it's better, there won't be so much headache :)
22:13 autrijus clkao: cool
22:14 obra ingy's new despammy stuff makes life better
22:14 mj41 has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:14 obra I despammed a week's worth of spam in 5 minutes
22:14 clkao anyway, get this done so i can implmement bin/svk in perl6 and at least one editor in perl6.
22:14 autrijus yay!
22:14 autrijus clkao++
22:14 autrijus clkao++
22:14 autrijus clkao++
22:14 autrijus I'll get this done :)
22:14 clkao autrijus++ # though you need no karma anymore :)
22:15 theorbtwo autrijus, I think it's simply missing a header.  Ignore the 64-bit stuff it's whining about -- /usr/lib/perl/5.8/CORE/reentr.h:611: error: field `_crypt_struct' has incomplete type
22:15 autrijus obra: hm, url to said despamming stuff?
22:15 autrijus theorbtwo: that may be. I wonder if GHC is shadowing the .h somehow
22:15 _metaperl has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:16 ingy clkao: what is wrong with kwiki?
22:16 clkao it's ahteful
22:16 obra autrijus: um. no url. Ingy hasn't released it yet, i think
22:16 clkao internal server error when it's totally spammed
22:16 autrijus or if it's because if the munging in line 174 inc/Module/Install/Pugs.pm
22:16 clkao ::revisions plugin doesn't work with svk
22:16 ingy clkao: you are a hatful of hollow
22:17 obra basically, there's a mod to recent pages that takes you straight to page_info on the admin version of the kwiki
22:17 clkao maybe someone needs to write a wiki in perl6.
22:17 obra then there's a mod to PageInfo to reverse the listing.
22:17 autrijus nice.
22:17 ingy clkao: what obra say ^^
22:17 clkao autrijus: so you will setup shared mirror depot for feather?
22:17 obra ingy: that still doesn't stop the server error on spam
22:17 autrijus clkao: thru local exploit? ;)
22:17 obra it makes it easier to recover, though
22:17 clkao autrijus: what local exploit?
22:18 autrijus (meaning, there's no sudo on feather)
22:18 autrijus how am I to setup shared depot thing?
22:18 clkao oh
22:18 clkao it's easy
22:18 clkao i assume you are in same group?
22:18 clkao fsfs handles that already
22:18 autrijus so everyone link my .svk
22:18 autrijus is that the idea?
22:18 clkao get a mirror in /pugs/, which points to ~autrijus/pugs-=depot
22:19 clkao and people map their default depot or /pugs/ to that repositroy
22:19 clkao don't have to do SVKROOT=/home/autrijus/.svk, it's a bit annoying
22:19 autrijus sounds yummy
22:19 autrijus ok. then we put it to motd
22:20 autrijus that will save lots of svn bandwidth
22:20 autrijus svk++ # technology!
22:20 clkao *nod*
22:20 clkao and fscking disk space
22:21 clkao did i tell you
22:21 autrijus no you did not
22:21 clkao at $work, the repository is 1.2G. svn co is 2.4G. svk co is 700M.
22:21 clkao so a mirror of the full history (36k revs) + checkout is fucking smaller than svn co
22:21 autrijus are you using xdelta repo yet?
22:21 clkao no
22:22 autrijus I'm pondering a strategy of migrating foundry to that
22:22 clkao why
22:22 autrijus I especially want server side support for --limit
22:22 clkao what for?
22:22 clkao you dont want to hear me rant about it
22:22 theorbtwo It will iff that svk repo is kept very up-to-date.  Otherwise it'll just be annoying.
22:22 clkao IT DOESN"T WORK
22:22 clkao oh, it's fixed for 1.2.1
22:22 autrijus er.
22:22 clkao theorbtwo: ? every commit will update it.
22:22 xinming has joined #perl6
22:22 autrijus that renders the rant less effective
22:22 clkao theorbtwo: any time you do svk up -s
22:22 autrijus theorbtwo: everyone can update it with svk pull
22:23 theorbtwo Ah, of course.
22:23 theorbtwo Nevermind then.
22:23 autrijus :)
22:23 clkao we use shared svk depot at work, proven to be very helpful and efficient.
22:23 clkao never had out-of-date problem.
22:23 autrijus wunderbar
22:23 clkao so it's proven technology
22:24 clkao s/proven/enterprise/
22:24 clkao bwaha
22:24 knewt clkao: btw, i'm seeing an "unexpected success" from the svk test suite
22:24 autrijus clkao: so did you submit to euroscon?
22:24 clkao knewt: oh? which one?
22:24 clkao autrijus: yes, with help from obra :)
22:24 autrijus do I get to see your submission?
22:25 autrijus ooh.
22:25 clkao autrijus: but i think i'll go anyway.
22:25 mrborisguy has joined #perl6
22:25 clkao autrijus: http://nopaste.snit.ch:8002/2713
22:25 autrijus greetings mrborisguy
22:25 knewt clkao: 70symlink.t, [[ ok 50 - got svn:special # TODO revert overwritten symlink from file ]]
22:26 clkao knewt: interesting.
22:26 knewt clkao: however, the following TODO subtest fails [[ not ok 51 - t/checkout/symlink/non.lnk.cp is symlink # TODO revert overwritten symlink from file ]]
22:26 clkao ah, i must have fixed soemthing accidentally
22:26 clkao knewt: would you like to be able to commit to svk?
22:27 autrijus (accidental fix)++ # my favourite kind of fix
22:27 * autrijus looks at #svk backlog and grins
22:27 clkao autrijus: do you handle p5 returned arrahref/hashref yet?
22:27 autrijus 03:00 < clkao> bad news. i like haskell
22:27 autrijus clkao: planning to now
22:28 clkao autrijus++
22:28 autrijus clkao: and I'll do auto deRV!
22:28 clkao COOL
22:28 knewt clkao: heh, yeah, sure. run stuff by you first before actually committing anything?
22:28 autrijus eval_perl5('@INC').[0]
22:28 autrijus eval_perl5('\@INC').[0]
22:28 autrijus will be the same thing.
22:28 knewt autrijus: so can you embed both perl5 /and/ parrot at the same time?
22:28 autrijus no more hateful cryptoreferencing
22:28 autrijus knewt: yes, using PUGS_EMBED=perl5,parrot
22:28 autrijus or parrot,perl5 if you prefer
22:28 * q[acme] giggles
22:29 autrijus or outer punctuation chars
22:29 knewt autrijus: ah, ok. i tried doing PUGS_EMBED="perl5 parrot"
22:29 clkao q[acme]!
22:29 autrijus knewt: that should also do
22:29 iwt has quit IRC (Client Quit)
22:29 knewt hmm. didn't seem to when i tried it. of course, that was several days back now *g*
22:29 q[acme] clkao: found your new project? ;-)
22:30 clkao q[acme]: no, sadly i'm just going to stick with svk, but slowly port things to p6 piece by piece
22:30 mrborisguy as added props for p6... it takes a lot less time to compile than 5.8.6
22:30 clkao q[acme]: how are you party boy
22:31 autrijus knewt: worksforme
22:32 autrijus knewt: I can eval PIR defined in SVs
22:32 autrijus it's not quite ponie, but it's still fun :)
22:33 theorbtwo So long as there is a \b between them, it's all good.
22:34 theorbtwo has quit IRC ("Moving to the other room.")
22:36 ninereasons has quit IRC ("rebooting")
22:37 * q[acme] parties
22:37 xinming has quit IRC (Client Quit)
22:44 ramzi has joined #perl6
22:57 theorbtwo has joined #perl6
22:57 mrborisguy has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:58 osfameron has quit IRC ("Leaving")
23:14 jql has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:14 vcv-- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:14 _metaperl has joined #perl6
23:15 vcv has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:17 Tekhne has joined #perl6
23:23 ramzi has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:35 nnunley has joined #perl6
23:40 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
23:48 drbean The svn,svk tests for version in the Makefile are hanging the build on my machine
23:49 drbean svk outputs a line about the base directory being not a checkout directory
23:50 drbean this is printed when I run the pugs_version.pl script by itself
23:51 drbean the line is not printed when run by make and the build hangs
23:56 broquaint has joined #perl6
23:57 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
23:58 * Limbic_Region does a little dance as he is on the net from home again
23:58 theorbtwo Congrats, Limbic~Region!
23:58 theorbtwo Welcome to the wonderful world of connectivity!
23:58 Limbic_Region well, not quite
23:58 Limbic_Region only got digital cable - not HD
23:58 Limbic_Region and haven't gotten my VoIP phone working yet
23:58 Limbic_Region but getting there

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