Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-06-10

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:26 clkao ah, so chained comparison is not working yet.
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00:42 arcady ?eval my $x = 3; 0 < $x < 5
00:42 evalbot6 bool::true
00:42 arcady ?eval my $x = 3; 0 < $x < 2
00:42 evalbot6 bool::true
00:43 obra ?eval 0E0
00:43 evalbot6 0
00:43 obra ?eval 0E0 ?? 'true' :: 'false';
00:43 evalbot6 'false'
00:43 * obra wonders
00:45 obscurite has joined #perl6
00:45 obscurite I see TPF put up ideas for the google summer of code grants. (http://www.perlfoundation.org/gc/grants/proposals.html)
00:46 obscurite perl6 mason, core yaml, and perl6-rules-per-parser aren't on it
00:46 obscurite make that, perl6-rules-perl-parser
00:47 obra obscurite: ideas listed doesn't mean "we don't want other stuff"
00:47 obscurite I forget the actual, real, acronymn.
00:47 * obscurite nods
00:47 obscurite Just saying.
00:48 obra "perl6 mason" is flamebait, sadly
00:48 * obscurite giggles
00:49 obscurite I didn't come up with that one.
00:50 obscurite What do you think of the weblist?
00:50 obra It's a reasonable set of starter projects
00:50 obra I think the whole summer of code thing is a bit crazily organized
00:51 obscurite Ya, kind of a free for all.
00:51 obra They should have had it up and running by march.
00:51 clkao ?eval 1 < 10 < 3
00:51 evalbot6 bool::true
00:52 obra ?eval 1 < (10 < 3)
00:52 evalbot6 bool::false
00:52 obra ?eval (1 < (10) < 3
00:52 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected end of input expecting digit, fraction, exponent, term postfix, operator, ">>=:=<<", ">>!=<<", ">>==<<", ">><=<<", ">>>=<<", ">>~~<<", ">>!~<<", ">>eq<<", ">>ne<<", ">>lt<<", ">>le<<", ">>gt<<", ">>ge<<", ">><<<", ">>><<", "\187=:=\171", "\187!=\171", "\187==\171", "\187<=\171", "\187>=\171", "\187~~\171", "\187!~\171", "\187eq\171", "\187ne\171", "\187lt\171", "\187le\171", "\187gt\171", "\187ge\171", "\187<\171", "\187>\171", "=:=",
00:52 obra ?eval (1 < 10) < 3
00:52 evalbot6 bool::true
00:52 kelan woo that ones fun
00:55 clkao actually what i want is $a < any(@foo) < $b
00:55 clkao any more expressive way?
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01:12 clkao autrijus: can you try make chained comparison work before 6.2.7? it's crucial to me
01:13 obra for svk6?
01:13 obra clkao: did you submit failing tests?
01:13 clkao there's already todo test
01:13 clkao no, for a tool for my own leisure
01:15 obra  ah
01:15 obra SOAP::Real::6
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01:22 meppl gute nacht  -  good night
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02:59 vel hi. i've looked at the office at autrijus presentation, but forgot the link. anyone can make my evening interested?
03:00 vel s/interested/interesting/
03:00 obra www.pugscode.org ?
03:01 vel no, i think it is one for YAPC NA. something on autrijus.org...
03:08 mugwump the one in the pugs svn?
03:09 vel yeah, i was wrong... i was thinking of http://pugscode.org/talks/apw
03:09 vel sorry, obra
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03:43 QtPlatypus pugs -V should tell you the version of parrot you are embedding.
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05:05 revdiablo $ pugs -e 'my $foo = { bar => { baz => [ "one", "two", "three" ] } }; say ref $foo<bar><baz>' Str
05:06 revdiablo shouldn't that be Array?
05:06 revdiablo pasted kind of weird -- it prints Str
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05:11 QtPlatypus ?eval my $foo = { bar => { baz => [ "one",two", "three" ] } }; $foo<bar><baz>.perl
05:11 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "[" expecting term
05:14 QtPlatypus ?eval [ "one",two","three" ]
05:14 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "[" expecting program
05:14 QtPlatypus ?eval ("one",two","three")
05:14 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "t" expecting term postfix, operator, ",", ":" or ")"
05:14 QtPlatypus ?eval \("one",two","three")
05:14 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "t" expecting term postfix, operator, ",", ":" or ")"
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05:15 locksy ?eval my $foo = [ "one", "two", "three" ];
05:15 locksy ?eval my $foo = [ "one", "two", "three" ];
05:15 evalbot6 ['one', 'two', 'three']
05:15 locksy ?eval my $foo = { bar => [ "one", "two", "three" ] };
05:15 evalbot6 {('bar' => 'one'), ('two' => 'three')}
05:15 QtPlatypus Thats wrong
05:17 QtPlatypus It looks like pugs is unrolling [] into the {}
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05:35 gaal hola
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05:35 gaal in Prim, op2 "Scalar as", there's an interesting idiom:
05:36 gaal str <- fromVal x :: Eval VStr
05:37 gaal in another place, (reverse), i see that string arguments are passed by reference. does this code auto deref somehow? (can't see how)
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05:50 theorbtw1 We're off.  See you from the US.
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05:50 gaal have a good flight!
05:50 gaal too late :)
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05:52 gaal hmmm, to we have Maybe-like utils for VUndef?
05:53 gaal i want to do something with a Val, but short-circuit to Nothing if it's not defined.
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06:08 batkins_ will parrot still be developed without dan leading it?
06:08 acme_ chip is leading it!
06:10 batkins_ sweet
06:10 batkins_ it would be sad to see parrot go
06:10 obra  chip has been leading it for several months
06:10 batkins_ is this the same chip who was writing topaz?
06:11 obra yes
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07:23 QtPlatypus Is there a multyline quoting convention?
07:23 Khisanth heredocs?
07:24 QtPlatypus Is it implemented in pugs yet?
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07:36 knewt_ QtPlatypus: not been implemented yet, but see the end of examples/cookbook/01strings/01-00introduction.p6 for the new heredoc syntax
07:37 QtPlatypus Thanks knewt_++
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07:51 autark-jp thought I saw someone commit a patch for simple heredocs...
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08:01 QtPlatypus ?eval $a = "Con" ~ "Cat";
08:01 evalbot6 Error: Undeclared variable: "$a"
08:01 QtPlatypus ?eval my $a = "Con" ~ "Cat";
08:01 evalbot6 \'ConCat'
08:02 chip Buenos Dias
08:02 autrijus_ there's heredoc support
08:02 autrijus_ but not _correct_
08:02 autrijus_ you have to say
08:02 autrijus_ $a = q:to/END/
08:02 autrijus_ foo
08:02 autrijus_ END;
08:02 autrijus_ instead of
08:02 autrijus_ $a = q:to/END/;
08:02 autrijus_ foo
08:02 autrijus_ END
08:02 autrijus_ that actually may be construed as a feature ;)
08:02 autrijus_ (but it's against spec, and hence a bug)
08:07 QtPlatypus Thanks autrijus_
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08:14 QtPlatypus Hi scook0
08:14 scook0 howdy QtPlatypus
08:15 scook0 much happening in pugs today?
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09:24 * QtPlatypus kisses wamrly "I love you as well.  See you later"
09:24 QtPlatypus MAV
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10:56 nothingmuch morning
10:59 xerox 'morning
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11:53 svnbot6 r4501, fireartist++ | * new tests for sub signature matching
11:53 svnbot6 r4501, fireartist++ | * more tests for BUILD args
11:53 svnbot6 r4502, scook0++ | Fixed Haddock-confusing comments in Parser.hs
11:54 chip Haddock?
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11:56 scook0 chip: Haddock generates documentation from annotated Haskell source code
11:56 scook0 http://www.haskell.org/haddock/
11:58 chip ok
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12:15 * Limbic_Region can now use + at work
12:15 Limbic_Region Juerd++
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13:01 svnbot6 r4503, autrijus++ | * hw2005 - review from Chip Salzenberg.
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13:35 PerlJam "metacomputational monads"?
13:35 xerox Eval (Eval a)
13:38 nothingmuch bah!
13:39 nothingmuch it turns out my hands are obstructing the antena
13:41 Aankhen`` perlbot karma Aankhen
13:41 perlbot Karma for Aankhen: 74
13:41 Aankhen`` Wow.
13:41 Aankhen`` Hacking away at Pugs is good for your karma. :-P
13:43 osfameron_ has joined #perl6
13:45 nothingmuch perlbot highest karma
13:45 perlbot The top 5 karma entries: autrijus: 660, C: 475, iblech: 457, stevan: 128, gaal: 87
13:46 nothingmuch wow, C is not the highest anumore =)
13:46 Aankhen`` Heh.
13:46 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo () returns Void { }; foo();
13:46 evalbot6 undef
13:47 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo () is unsafe { }; foo();
13:47 evalbot6 undef
13:47 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo () is unsafe { 42 }; foo();
13:47 evalbot6 42
13:47 Aankhen`` ?eval $?PUGS_VERSION
13:47 evalbot6 \'Perl6 User\'s Golfing System, version 6.2.6, June 2, 2005 (r4503)'
13:47 Aankhen`` Hrm...
13:47 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo () is unsafe returns Void { 42 } foo()
13:47 nothingmuch ?eval say "nothingmuch" ~ "++"
13:47 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "r" expecting trait or block
13:47 evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&say"
13:47 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo () is unsafe returns Void { 42 }; foo();
13:47 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "r" expecting trait or block
13:47 Aankhen`` Heh.
13:47 Aankhen`` Nice try.
13:48 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo () returns Void is unsafe { 42 }; foo();
13:48 evalbot6 42
13:48 Aankhen`` ?eval "nothingmuch" ~ "++"
13:48 evalbot6 'nothingmuch++'
13:48 Aankhen`` ?eval <1 2 3 4 5>.pick
13:48 evalbot6 '2'
13:48 Aankhen`` ?eval <1 2 3 4 5>.pick
13:48 evalbot6 '4'
13:48 Aankhen`` ?eval <nothingmuch evalbot6>.pick ~ "++"
13:48 evalbot6 'evalbot6++'
13:48 nothingmuch ?eval "nothingmuch"  ~ "++"
13:48 evalbot6 'nothingmuch++'
13:49 nothingmuch ?eval "nothingmuch" ~ "-- " x 10
13:49 evalbot6 'nothingmuch-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- '
13:49 nothingmuch beh
13:50 osfameron has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:50 Aankhen`` You really want to do that? :-)
13:50 Aankhen`` ?eval 1|2|4
13:50 evalbot6 (1 | 2 | 4)
13:50 nothingmuch ?eval ("Aankhen``" ~ "++ ") x 10
13:50 evalbot6 'Aankhen``++ Aankhen``++ Aankhen``++ Aankhen``++ Aankhen``++ Aankhen``++ Aankhen``++ Aankhen``++ Aankhen``++ Aankhen``++ '
13:50 nothingmuch perlbot karma Aankhen``
13:50 perlbot Karma for Aankhen``: 19
13:50 Aankhen`` o_O
13:51 nothingmuch =)
13:51 Aankhen`` ?eval ("Aankhen``" ~ "--") x 100
13:51 evalbot6 'Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhen``--Aankhe
13:51 Aankhen`` perlbot karma Aankhen``
13:51 perlbot Karma for Aankhen``: -21
13:51 nothingmuch perlbot karma Aankhen``
13:51 perlbot Karma for Aankhen``: -21
13:51 nothingmuch tee hee
13:51 Aankhen`` Would you believe that was accidental?
13:51 nothingmuch you meant to do ++?
13:51 Aankhen`` No, I meant to do 10.
13:51 nothingmuch ah =)
13:52 Aankhen`` ?eval ("Aankhen``" ~ "++") x 21
13:52 evalbot6 'Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++'
13:52 Aankhen`` perlbot karma Aankhen``
13:52 perlbot Karma for Aankhen``: -1
13:52 Aankhen`` ?eval ("Aankhen``" ~ "++") x 10
13:52 evalbot6 'Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++Aankhen``++'
13:52 Aankhen`` perlbot karma Aankhen``
13:52 perlbot Karma for Aankhen``: 8
13:52 Aankhen`` I believe that ought to be right.
13:52 PerlJam this much bot twiddling is the beginning of the end of #perl6
13:54 Aankhen`` Such dramatics!
13:56 nothingmuch one more
13:56 nothingmuch Aankhen``++
13:56 nothingmuch that's how it was before, right?
13:56 nothingmuch PerlJam: how so? we're not interrupting any conversation
13:56 Aankhen`` nothingmuch >> Yeh, but I figured I'd leave one off. :-)
13:56 Aankhen`` Thanks, though.
13:57 Aankhen`` Oh, I heard the best quote yesterday.
13:57 Aankhen`` Or rather, I was present when it became a quote. :-P
13:57 Aankhen`` [01:33:03] * Topic is '<topic decent="decent" />'
13:58 Aankhen`` [01:40:49] * BananaServ (none@r0xX0rs.your.b0xX0rs.net) has joined #TheGathering
13:58 Aankhen`` [01:41:04] <@BananaServ> PHP topic?
13:58 nothingmuch ?
14:06 PerlJam nothingmuch: no, but what happens is that others see what you've done and try to imitate it.  And then others see that and think "you can do that?" and then they try it.  And so forth.  The next thing you know #perl6 is just a channel for playing with the bot.  
14:07 nothingmuch In that case perhaps we should start a #perl6bot channel, which is the only place evalbot can write
14:07 nothingmuch and under special circumstances you can ask evalbot to nopaste the output of the last command you eval'ed
14:08 Aankhen`` PerlJam >> You do realise it was inevitable? :-)
14:08 nothingmuch but i think we should do that only if/when it really is a problem
14:08 integral the easier solution it to tell perlbot and jabbot to ignore *bot (or just evalbot)
14:09 PerlJam nothingmuch: agreed.  I was just dooming and glooming.  I'm not into premature optmization.  Address only real problems.  etc.
14:09 nothingmuch ?evalbot6 "PerlJam++"
14:09 nothingmuch ;-)
14:09 QtPlatypus ?eval perl++
14:09 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected end of input expecting term
14:09 nothingmuch integral: here's a workaround
14:10 nothingmuch is now known as someguy
14:10 QtPlatypus ?eval "perl"++
14:10 evalbot6 Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "perl"
14:10 someguy nothingmuch++
14:10 someguy is now known as nothingmuch
14:10 Aankhen`` ?eval "perl++"
14:10 evalbot6 'perl++'
14:10 PerlJam I think QtPlatypus is trying to prove me right
14:10 nothingmuch nothingmuch--
14:10 QtPlatypus Does perl6 do the magical increment strings thing.
14:11 QtPlatypus ?eval my $a="perl";++$a
14:11 evalbot6 'perm'
14:11 PerlJam QtPlatypus: yes.
14:11 wolverian neat, eh? :)
14:12 Aankhen`` ?eval Array.perl
14:12 evalbot6 '\\{obj:Class}'
14:12 Aankhen`` ?eval ::Array.perl
14:12 evalbot6 '\\{obj:Class}'
14:12 QtPlatypus I see, a string by itself is imutable, I have to mutate a scalar verable
14:12 QtPlatypus ?eval ++13
14:12 evalbot6 Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 13
14:12 QtPlatypus Ok that makes sence.
14:14 wolverian sense
14:14 Aankhen`` Cents!
14:15 QtPlatypus http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html
14:15 PerlJam btw, check out http://feather.perl6.nl/~duff/qotw/007e/frost.p6
14:15 PerlJam pugs is *slow*
14:17 * QtPlatypus hasn't expremented with pugscc "Does it give any speed up?"
14:18 * QtPlatypus tries it "Not much"
14:18 integral hmm, did anyone ever get the profiling stuff working with pugs?
14:18 PerlJam I experienced something quite odd last night.  I was showing someone how to do something in perl5 and I wrote perl6 code without thinking about it.  perl6 is starting to get into my brain.
14:19 nothingmuch integral - IIRC pjcj tried to use hat for code coverage metrics, but hat didn't support all the stuff pugs uses
14:19 integral pointy blocks are *so* brilliant! :-)
14:19 integral nothingmuch: I was meaning the stuff built into GHC
14:19 integral to just figure out which bits of Eval.hs are expensive
14:19 nothingmuch ticky ticky metering?
14:19 integral yeah, something like the ticky ticky thingie
14:19 integral (of which I know little)
14:21 integral hmm, sloccount needs perl6 support now 8)
14:21 integral hmm, pugs is about 13 person-years and 1.8e6 USD
14:27 nothingmuch seen autrijus_
14:27 jabbot nothingmuch: autrijus_ was seen 45 seconds ago
14:28 nothingmuch autrijus_: i have some harrorth to toss your way
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14:45 aufrank hey all
14:46 nothingmuch hello aufrank
14:46 aufrank can anyone tell me if any of the apocalypses address how/whether perl6 will support multi-dimensional arrays?
14:47 Enveigler has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
14:47 Khisanth shape!
14:48 aufrank is that a mailing list thing or an apocalypse thing?  I wanna read up :)
14:48 Aankhen`` http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S09.html
14:49 aufrank heh
14:49 Aankhen`` Read under "Compact arrays".
14:49 aufrank I just found a pointer to S09 in A2 ;)
14:49 aufrank thanks :)
14:49 Aankhen`` Ah well. :-)
14:49 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("BRB [Time wasted online: 1hr 48mins 34secs]")
14:50 aufrank ok, off to read docs
14:50 saorge has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
14:50 aufrank thanks all
14:51 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
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15:02 nothingmuch seen Corion
15:02 jabbot nothingmuch: Corion was seen 4 days 17 hours 29 minutes 23 seconds ago
15:02 nothingmuch oh my
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15:09 Shillo Hullo, all
15:09 dkf has joined #perl6
15:10 QtPlatypus Hi
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16:05 sysfault has left
16:05 svnbot6 r4504, ninereasons++ | cookbook: literal whitespace in quoted strings
16:08 QtPlatypus What causes the release number to be incremented?
16:10 ninereasons QtPlatypus, do you mean "revision number" as in r4504 ? or release version number as in "Pugs 6.2.6"
16:11 QtPlatypus The r\d\d\d\d number
16:12 ninereasons that's a subversion number.  the version control software takes care of that, with each submission.  -- or do you mean, more technically, "by what mechanism?" (in which case, I don't know) :-)
16:13 sapp3r has joined #perl6
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16:15 QtPlatypus So every check in increments it?
16:17 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Reboot [Time wasted online: 1hr 26mins 10secs]")
16:19 corneli yes
16:19 corneli every check-in, every of single files, increments the subversion revision number
16:20 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
16:20 corneli s/ever of single files/even of a single file/
16:21 nothingmuch seen lightstep
16:21 jabbot nothingmuch: lightstep was seen 2 days 7 hours 23 minutes 45 seconds ago
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16:32 nothingmuch "Tedium being the stepmother of invention"
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16:42 steveq Hi there
16:42 steveq I seem to be having a problem with want
16:42 steveq I keep getting ' No compatible subroutine found: "&List"'
16:42 steveq is this a known problem?
16:43 PerlJam show the code.
16:43 PerlJam Perhaps you want ::List
16:43 PerlJam or maybe you're using List rather than "List"
16:43 PerlJam or something.
16:43 steveq return want.List ?? @ret :: @ret[0];
16:44 steveq I basically copied the test from want.t
16:44 steveq sub obj_ok_in_list   { want.List         ?? 42 :: 0 }
16:44 PerlJam hrm.  That's an odd syntax.
16:45 PerlJam or I just haven't put on my hat of sufficient imagination yet.
16:45 knewt_ has quit IRC ("end_of_day/back_sunday")
16:47 steveq It seems right from SO6 but then i'm very new to this perl6 stuff
16:47 PerlJam yeah, I guess it does
16:47 PerlJam But note that those tests in want.t fail  :)
16:47 PerlJam (at least on my pugs)
16:48 PerlJam want ~~ "List" works though
16:48 PerlJam as does want ~~ ::List
16:48 dkf has joined #perl6
16:49 PerlJam (or should anyway, I didn't test those exact things)
16:49 steveq right, i'll do it that way then
16:49 steveq thanks
16:49 rjbs I was re-reading some synopsis (or other doc) recently, and saw the statement that $a .. $z were automatically available as args to a closure.  It doesn't seem true, and I can't find it again.
16:49 rjbs Was I hallucinating?  Was that changed?  Am I doing something wrong?
16:49 rjbs (I know about placeholder args.)
16:49 PerlJam rjbs: Well, that's what $^a, $^b, etc are.
16:50 Limbic_Region wish me luck
16:50 * Limbic_Region is about to send a message to the list that is likely going to be highly contraversial
16:50 rjbs Yeah, I'm sure I read something about without-^.  Maybe it was a rejected RFC or something. :)
16:50 Aankhen`` rjbs >> You can use placeholders anywhere in a block and they'll be bound to the parameters passed to the block, in Unicode order.
16:50 rjbs Aankhen``: yeah, those I know.  oh well!  I'm happy with those, just wondering what I'd read
16:50 Aankhen`` (i.e. it's not just restricted to a..z)
16:50 PerlJam Limbic_Region: awesome!
16:51 * rjbs has been finally putzing around writing perl6, and is having fun.
16:51 Aankhen`` rjbs >> Isn't it? ^_^
16:51 Limbic_Region of fuck
16:51 Limbic_Region accidently sent out my work number
16:51 PerlJam rjbs: Me too. Earlier I commented that I was showing someone something in perl5 and inadvertently wrote perl6 code.   It's starting to infect my brain  :)
16:51 * Limbic_Region kicks himself in the ass
16:52 rjbs anybody have a perl6.vim? :)
16:52 * Limbic_Region believes there is one in Pugs rjbs
16:53 PerlJam Limbic_Region: you have an assumption that probably isn't true:  "I am sure that a great deal of that unpublished work has already been decided"
16:53 rjbs Limbic_Region: Oh, I'll look!
16:53 Khisanth rjbs: there should be one in the repo
16:53 Limbic_Region http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=332117
16:53 Limbic_Region grrr
16:53 rjbs there it is!
16:53 Limbic_Region http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/util/perl6.vim
16:53 Khisanth especially since so many commit messages mention it :)
16:53 Limbic_Region my copy/paste is broke
16:53 Limbic_Region first I accidently paste my work sig
16:53 * rjbs adds it to his ftdetect.
16:54 Limbic_Region now post the wrong link
16:54 Khisanth first your keyboard now your mouse
16:55 PerlJam Limbic_Region: and anyway, your "solution" is already the case.
16:55 PerlJam Limbic_Region: http://svn.perl.org/perl6
16:55 Limbic_Region PerlJam - so where do I checkout the docs?
16:56 Limbic_Region where do I submit patches?
16:56 PerlJam that's the svn repository of the actual documents that @Larry work from.
16:56 PerlJam Limbic_Region: you can submit patches to p6l probably.
16:56 Limbic_Region that's the point PerlJam
16:56 Limbic_Region I was playing dumb for a reason
16:56 Limbic_Region it isn't general public knowledge
16:57 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
16:57 PerlJam oh, you were trying to incite discussion and dissemination?
16:57 Limbic_Region and no one, that I know of, has specifically asked for patches to help unburden the load of keeping them up to date
16:57 Odin- has joined #perl6
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16:58 * Limbic_Region expects the first reply to be a pointer
16:58 coaster has quit IRC (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
16:58 Limbic_Region my reply is going to be - where do I send patches
16:58 PerlJam If you like, I could start the ball rolling :-)
16:58 PerlJam er, give it the second push
16:59 Limbic_Region I am not sure
16:59 coaster has joined #perl6
16:59 Limbic_Region basically what I would like from @larry is buy in that they think it is a good idea
17:00 Limbic_Region no sense in telling everyone there is a publicly available resource if they can't do anything about it
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17:00 Limbic_Region of course, if you worded your email in such a way as to say
17:01 Limbic_Region the hard part is already taken care of <repository link>.  We just need @larry to decide if they want to accept patches and decide where to submit them"
17:01 Limbic_Region that would be ok
17:01 justatheory has joined #perl6
17:02 * Limbic_Region really wants an "unsend" feature to his email
17:02 PerlJam well, what we really needs is a more pugsian effort.
17:03 iblech has joined #perl6
17:03 Limbic_Region PerlJam - I specifically avoided Pugs in that email
17:04 Limbic_Region but I agree
17:04 PerlJam I see that.  But the same model is what would work for the design docs.  Let the "general public" of the perl6 community update the docs willy nilly then have @Larry or even $Larry as release manager to periodically review the docs and post releases.
17:04 Limbic_Region trust people that show effort and a degree of sense and intervene when necessary
17:05 Limbic_Region PerlJam - I envision the process to be more of a negotiation
17:05 PerlJam If I were more dedicated to the task, everytime I saw a "let's go with that" from $Larry on p6l, I'd post a patch that updates the docs.
17:05 Limbic_Region right - exactly what I proposed
17:06 Limbic_Region only it wouldn't get committed until blessed
17:06 Limbic_Region which leaves room to negotiate
17:06 Limbic_Region ok - good idea, but let's do it this way
17:06 Limbic_Region Jedi mind trick - let the people making decisions think it was their idea
17:08 Limbic_Region I just see that on paper, we are really only about 1/3 of the way through the design process and I know that isn't the case
17:08 dada has quit IRC ("zu spaet um makellos zu sein")
17:08 Limbic_Region it is unfair to ask the handful of people that are already putting blood sweat and tears into it to work harder
17:09 Limbic_Region so - offer to help while continuing to give them final authority
17:11 Limbic_Region this by the way is a result of starting to go through the Synopses for Luke with the timeline of what's supposed to be in each one to find missing things
17:11 Limbic_Region it was too much stuff for one person to do it alone
17:15 Aankhen`` ?eval module Foo { }
17:15 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "{" expecting trait, ";" or end of input
17:15 svnbot6 r4505, iblech++ | ext/libwww-perl -- Updated svn:ignore.
17:16 Aankhen`` iblech >> Think you could get the block-style module declarations to pass? :-)
17:16 Aankhen`` s/pass/parse/
17:16 Limbic_Region ?eval module Foo {};
17:16 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "{" expecting trait, ";" or end of input
17:16 iblech You mean module Foo {...}?
17:16 iblech Ah
17:16 Limbic_Region ?eval module Foo {...};
17:16 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "{" expecting trait, ";" or end of input
17:16 Aankhen`` Indeed.
17:17 Aankhen`` ?eval module Foo { sub bar () { ... } }
17:17 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "{" expecting trait, ";" or end of input
17:23 vcv has joined #perl6
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17:23 Aankhen`` ?eval sprintf("%s", "foo")
17:23 evalbot6 pugs: Printf.printf: bad argument
17:23 Aankhen`` ?eval sprintf("%3d", 1)
17:23 evalbot6 '  1'
17:23 Aankhen`` ?eval sprintf("%c", "abcd")
17:23 evalbot6 '
17:23 dkf has quit IRC ()
17:23 Aankhen`` ?eval sprintf("%s %s", "foo", "bar")
17:23 evalbot6 pugs: Printf.printf: bad argument
17:23 Aankhen`` What am I doing wrong?
17:23 iblech Re. I'll look into module Foo {...} :)
17:23 PerlJam Aankhen``: nothing probably.  It just might be that the %s specifier is sub-implemented :)
17:23 iblech Yep, it's because of Haskell
17:23 iblech As Haskell doesn't know arbitrary number of args (out of the box), it's currently hardcoded to work with one arg or so only
17:23 Aankhen`` Ah.
17:23 iblech It's trivial to make it work with more args, I think, but it's non-trivial to generalize it
17:23 Aankhen`` ?eval sprintf("%d %d", 1, 2)
17:23 evalbot6 '1 2'
17:23 iblech According to Pugs.Prim:887, sprintf() should work with 0-3 args
17:23 iblech Ok, then the real reason why your earlier example doesn't work is because %s isn't yet implemented, at PerlJam said
17:24 Aankhen`` Ah.
17:24 Aankhen`` sprintf() is being reimplemented in Haskell?
17:24 Aankhen`` s/is being/has been/ as appropriate.
17:26 iblech Pugs uses the Haskell Text.Printf module, dunno if this is a pure-Haskell implementation or if it uses the libc one.
17:26 Aankhen`` OK.
17:26 xerox Aankhen``, I know of a printf implementation...
17:26 xerox Let me search
17:27 xerox http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~dons/hs-plugins/hs-plugins-Z-H-4.html#node_sec_7.2
17:32 pdcawley has joined #perl6
17:32 Aankhen`` Thanks. :-)
17:34 dkf has joined #perl6
17:36 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo () returns Str is primitive { }
17:36 evalbot6 undef
17:36 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo () is primitive returns Str { }
17:36 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "r" expecting trait or block
17:37 clkao mmm i don't seem to be able to build PUGS_EMBED=perl5 on osx
17:37 svnbot6 r4506, Aankhen++ | * added skeleton for URI::Escape.
17:37 svnbot6 r4507, Aankhen++ | * added C<is export> and C<returns Foo> as appropriate to URI::Escape.
17:41 Aankhen`` ?eval class Foo { multi method prefix:<~> () { $?CLASS } }; my $foo = Foo.new(); ~$foo;
17:41 evalbot6 Error: Wrong number of invocant parameters: 0 actual, 1 expected
17:41 Aankhen`` ?eval class Foo { multi sub prefix:<~> () { $?CLASS } }; my $foo = Foo.new(); ~$foo;
17:41 evalbot6 '<obj:Foo>'
17:41 Aankhen`` ?eval class Foo { multi method prefix:<~> () { $?CLASS } }; my $foo = Foo.new(); "$foo";
17:41 evalbot6 '<obj:Foo>'
17:42 Aankhen`` ?eval class Foo { multi method prefix:<~> () { "An object of class " ~ $?CLASS } }; my $foo = Foo.new(); "$foo";
17:42 evalbot6 '<obj:Foo>'
17:42 iblech Aankhen``: module Foo {...} is now parsed, checking in in a moment :)
17:42 Aankhen`` ?eval class Foo { multi method *prefix:<~> () { "An object of class " ~ $?CLASS } }; my $foo = Foo.new(); "$foo";
17:42 evalbot6 '<obj:Foo>'
17:42 Aankhen`` iblech++
17:42 Aankhen`` iblech++
17:42 Aankhen`` iblech++
17:42 clkao src/syck/syck.o: unknown symbol `_printf$LDBLStub'
17:43 Aankhen`` ?eval class Foo { multi sub *prefix:<~> () { "An object of class " ~ $?CLASS } }; my $foo = Foo.new(); "$foo";
17:43 evalbot6 '<obj:Foo>'
17:43 Aankhen`` ?eval class Foo { multi sub *prefix:<~> () { "An object of class " ~ $?CLASS } }; my $foo = Foo.new(); ~$foo;
17:43 evalbot6 '<obj:Foo>'
17:43 Aankhen`` Hrm.
17:43 clkao ?eval 1 < 10 < 5
17:43 evalbot6 bool::true
17:44 iblech Pugs seems to (incorrectly) expand this to (1 < 10) && (1 < 5)
17:44 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
17:45 iblech Ah, no, it parses this as (1 < 10) < 5
17:52 iblech (1 < 10) resulting in true, which is then numified to 1, which is less than 5
17:52 Aankhen`` iblech >> Since you're on a roll, could you also make it parse C<is export(:DEFAULT :foo :bar)>? :-)
17:52 Aankhen`` *puppy eyes*
17:52 Odin- has joined #perl6
17:52 iblech :) I'll look into it, but this one seems to be a little more tricky
17:52 Aankhen`` :-D
17:52 svnbot6 r4508, iblech++ | Pugs.Parser -- Made module Foo {...} parse.
17:52 Aankhen`` I'm just concerned about letting it atleast parse so that the declarations can be put in place, even if no action is taken.
17:52 iblech Is "is export[...]" allowed too (like it's the case with normal :foos?)
17:52 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: ping
17:52 Aankhen`` Otherwise, it'll be a pain to go back to every module and change it all once the proper behaviour is implemented.
17:52 iblech Yep, right...
17:52 Aankhen`` S11 just mentions is export(...).
17:52 Aankhen`` Hmm.
17:52 Aankhen`` I think once I've ported URI::Escape, I'll take a look at the diffs for your "foo is now parsed" commits.
17:52 Aankhen`` I should learn to make them parse myself rather than keep bugging you.
17:52 iblech No worries
17:52 nothingmuch autrijus_: http://www.ultratechnology.com/meta.html
17:52 iblech What's allowed inside the (...)-expression? I.e., is "is export (42 + 13)" allowed (from a purely syntax point of view)?
17:52 iblech s/export (/export(/
17:52 Aankhen`` No.
17:52 iblech Ok, that simplifies things :)
17:52 Aankhen`` One sec.
17:53 pasteling "Aankhen``" at 203.101.1.1 pasted "C<is export> (from S11)" (5 lines, 325B) at http://sial.org/pbot/10919
17:54 iblech Ok, I'll make it parse those
17:55 Limbic_Region nothingmuch: pong
17:56 nothingmuch how's your haskell progressing?
17:56 Aankhen`` Be back in 10 minutes.
17:56 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - I am going to spend all day Saturday playing
17:56 Limbic_Region I think it is time to stop reading and start doing
17:57 nothingmuch that took me a long while to realize
17:57 nothingmuch i played with the YAHT exercises, but, ehh...
17:57 nothingmuch i tried doing the meet-the-monads sheep tutorial
17:58 nothingmuch and even reimplemented msum along the way
17:58 nothingmuch but I still didn't feel like i actually did something
17:59 Limbic_Region right - it is like I can follow along and I can do the things that aren't much different then what I just read
17:59 Limbic_Region but it doesn't feel like it is a part of me
17:59 Limbic_Region I still have to go refer to the docs for anything but the most trivial
17:59 Limbic_Region so - just time to sink or swim
18:03 iblech Aankhen``: "is export(...)" is parsed now.
18:03 lightstep has joined #perl6
18:05 iblech Aankhen``: Making things parse is usually just finding the appropriate rule and then adding appropriate function calls to slurp abit of the source, i.e. "optional $ verbatimParens $ many $ satisfy (/= ')')" will parse "(...)"
18:05 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
18:05 svnbot6 r4509, iblech++ | Pugs.Lexer -- Make "is export(...)" parse (quick hack for now).
18:06 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
18:06 Aankhen`` What does $ mean?
18:07 iblech ($) is just a nice way to avoid parens: You can always write "a (long expression)" as "a $ long expression"
18:07 nothingmuch damnit! i hate concrete
18:07 iblech (Its definition is "a $ b = a b" or so)
18:07 Aankhen`` Ah, so basically, what you wrote is a bunch of function calls?
18:07 iblech Yep.
18:08 nothingmuch the way it gets clean is a (b c (d e f (g h))) looks like lisp
18:08 iblech That line is equivalent to optional (verbatimParens (many (satisfy (/= ')'))))
18:08 Aankhen`` OK.
18:08 nothingmuch a $ b c $ d e f $ g h -- doesn't
18:08 nothingmuch not that that's clear, due to the fact that the function names are single letters
18:09 nothingmuch despite my bad example it does help readability
18:10 Aankhen`` BRB.
18:12 nothingmuch has left
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18:14 nothingmuch oof, stupid chat program
18:15 * nothingmuch decides to switch to irssi
18:18 Limbic_Region PerlJam ping
18:18 steveq Is there a way to say "only test this single test file"?
18:20 iblech steveq: There is: prove t/.../.t
18:20 iblech You may need to set an environment var before running prove, though -- PERL_HARNESS IIRC
18:20 iblech PERL_HARNESS=/path/to/pugs prove t/.../...t
18:20 steveq aha
18:20 steveq Not seen that before
18:21 iblech And ./pugs t/.../.t will work, too, given a correct %*ENV<PERL6LIB>
18:22 steveq yeah, I couldn't work out te correct PERL6LIB
18:23 iblech make install or PERL6LIB=/pugs_sourcedir/blib6/lib
18:23 steveq cheers
18:25 steveq Reading the tests is an excellent way to learn perl6 I find
18:26 Aankh|Clone has joined #perl6
18:27 iblech Yep :)
18:27 iblech t/++
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18:27 Aankh|Clone is now known as Aankhen``
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18:32 ninereasons In perl 5, if I say my @ar = ('x') x 10; # then @ar is defined as containing 10 elems of 'x'
18:32 ninereasons what about in perl 6?
18:32 ninereasons ?eval my @ar = ('x') x 10; @ar;
18:32 evalbot6 ['xxxxxxxxxx']
18:32 ninereasons is that a bug?
18:33 ninereasons or is the old syntax replaced with the xx operator?
18:33 vcv- yep
18:33 ninereasons yep replaced?
18:33 vcv- x = scalar xx = list
18:33 vcv- ?eval my @ar = 'x' xx 10; @ar;
18:33 evalbot6 ['x', 'x', 'x', 'x', 'x', 'x', 'x', 'x', 'x', 'x']
18:34 ninereasons ok, so x is now more strict ?
18:34 PerlJam "more strict"?
18:34 * ninereasons should have used a different character than 'x' for the example
18:35 PerlJam The special case for LIST x EXPR was removed is all.
18:35 ninereasons PerlJam, that's what I mean.  no special case for LIST
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18:40 vel hi. anyone knows what's going on with   http://www.jwcs.net/~jonathan/perl6/  (windows pugs repository for binaries)
18:40 svnbot6 r4510, Aankhen++ | * HTTP::Message -- added C<is copy> to string parameters, added multi subs handling C<Str $unsafe>.
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18:41 Limbic_Region vel - apparently it is an apache misconfiguration problem
18:42 Aankhen`` ?eval true
18:42 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected end of input expecting term
18:42 iblech ?eval bool::true
18:42 evalbot6 bool::true
18:42 Aankhen`` ?eval bool::true
18:42 evalbot6 bool::true
18:43 vel Limbic_Region: thanks. i am sure i downloaded snapshot from there few days ago...
18:44 Limbic_Region as did I
18:44 PerlJam vel: and the apache config couldn't have changed in the mean time?
18:44 Limbic_Region seen Jonathan
18:44 jabbot Limbic_Region: Jonathan was seen 2 days 7 hours 59 minutes 12 seconds ago
18:44 Limbic_Region seen Jonathan_
18:44 jabbot Limbic_Region: Jonathan_ was seen 10 days 18 hours 28 minutes 42 seconds ago
18:45 Aankhen`` ?eval my %foo; for (my $i = 0; $i < 5; $i++) { state %foo = (foo => "bar"); } %foo.perl
18:45 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "f" expecting ";", statements or end of input reserved word
18:45 Aankhen`` ?eval my %foo; loop (my $i = 0; $i < 5; $i++) { state %foo = (foo => "bar"); } %foo.perl
18:45 evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&my"
18:45 Limbic_Region PerlJam - I posted an empty framework for S17 and asked if it was an acceptable patch
18:45 Aankhen`` ?eval my (%foo, $i); loop ($i = 0; $i < 5; $i++) { state %foo = (foo => "bar"); } %foo.perl
18:45 evalbot6 '{}'
18:45 PerlJam Limbic_Region: yeah, and I saw your PM post too.  Limbic_Region++
18:45 gander has joined #perl6
18:45 iblech Aankhen``: The inner state %foo hides the outer my %foo
18:46 Aankhen`` iblech >> Yeh, I thought it would... I just figured it wouldn't hurt to try. ;-)
18:46 Aankhen`` Does C<FIRST { ... }> work?
18:46 iblech ?eval sub abc { my $x; FIRST { $x++ }; $x } abc(); abc(); abc()
18:46 evalbot6 \undef
18:47 iblech Hm.. bad test
18:47 Aankhen`` ?eval sub abc { my $x; FIRST { $x++ }; $x } (abc(), abc(), abc())
18:47 evalbot6 (\1, \undef, \undef)
18:47 Limbic_Region best way to learn is to RTFM right?  What do you do if TFM is missing information - find out what it is an fix it
18:48 iblech So FIRST {...} works, as should INIT and CHECK
18:48 Aankhen`` OK.
18:49 Aankhen`` Could anyone explain to me just when CHECK { ... } is called, and what it is used for?
18:49 Aankhen`` Hmm, wait.
18:49 Aankhen`` I just realised I was looking at the S instead of the A.
18:49 * Aankhen`` goes to read the A.
18:50 Limbic_Region Aankhen - if the A disagrees with the S then trust the S
18:50 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
18:50 Aankhen`` Yeh, but I figure the A would explain it, the S would just offer a brief summary. :-)
18:50 iblech The order is: BEGIN (at compile time) - CHECK (compile time, too, but ALAP) - INIT (run time, ASAP) - ... - END (run time, ALAP)
18:51 Aankhen`` I saw the order later, I couldn't understand what it's for.
18:51 Limbic_Region "The synopses are now in the process of becoming our design documents, so you'll find a lot of details here that aren't mentioned elsewhere. If there's a conflict between any other documents and these documents, believe these documents (unless the other document is email from one of us, of course, in which case you should yell at us for not keeping these up to date.)"
18:51 Limbic_Region So when we say "S5", we mean "spec" as well as "synopsis".
18:51 Limbic_Region So really, the S no longer means synopsis - it means Spec
18:51 Limbic_Region s/longer means/longer just means/
18:51 Aankhen`` OK.
18:51 Aankhen`` So, you wanna tell me what CHECK is all about?
18:52 Aankhen`` Is it only a question of being called at a particular time?
18:52 Aankhen`` s/time/point/
18:52 Limbic_Region Aankhen - in p5 it had specific meaning - I haven't familiarized myself with p6
18:52 xinming has quit IRC (Client Quit)
18:53 Aankhen`` OK.
18:53 Limbic_Region the rule of thumb though is - if it isn't spelled out differently assume p5
18:53 * Aankhen`` goes to CHECK the Perl 5 meaning.
18:53 iblech :d
18:53 Limbic_Region AES18 isn't written yet is it?
18:54 Limbic_Region nor is 21
18:55 iblech Right, both not yet written
18:55 Limbic_Region I am hoping that if submitting patches for outlines is acceptable
18:55 Limbic_Region filling in the blanks will come faster because we will be able to visually see what is missing
18:56 Limbic_Region we don't have to hop around randomly
18:56 Aankhen`` I feel sorry for anyone who bought P6E...
18:56 Limbic_Region oh, that was addressed way back when and $larry had this to say
18:56 Limbic_Region Aankhen`` - why - it was just as much about parrot as it was p6
18:57 Aankhen`` But both evolve so fast...
18:57 Limbic_Region probably more so about Parrot
18:57 Limbic_Region I bought it (and read some of it) - I don't feel bad about it
18:58 Aankhen`` You poor thing. :-(
18:58 * Aankhen`` ducks.
18:59 Limbic_Region If only I were as smart as the people around me seem to think I am
19:00 Limbic_Region I would be able to do more to help the project then just advocacy and a few tests
19:00 Limbic_Region Aankhen`` - reading the book, even if 30% of it is no longer applicable is still a heck of a lot better than trying to catch up on 5 years of posts on the list
19:00 Aankhen`` Ahh, lighten up. :-)
19:01 Limbic_Region was mixing threads of thought
19:01 Limbic_Region only 1 of those lines was intended for you
19:01 Aankhen`` I know.
19:02 * Aankhen`` is just fooling around anyway.
19:02 Limbic_Region yeah, Perl is sexy that way
19:02 * Aankhen`` installs the Microsoft Platform SDK.
19:03 Aankhen`` BRB.
19:07 xinming has joined #perl6
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19:19 svnbot6 r4511, Aankhen++ | * implemented &URI::Escape::uri_escape.
19:19 svnbot6 r4511, Aankhen++ | * don't need %subst in URI::Escape.
19:19 svnbot6 r4512, iblech++ | docs/talks/README -- Added link to the HTML version of autrijus++' APW slides.
19:23 iblech Aankhen``: Just FYI, as I see you don't stop porting/creating URI/CGI-related modules :) -- I've already ported URI (with most of its subclasses) at http://tpe.freepan.org/repos/iblech/URI/lib/URI
19:23 iblech Aankhen``++
19:23 iblech Aankhen``++
19:26 * Aankhen`` dies.
19:27 * nothingmuch dances on Aankhen``'s grave
19:28 vcv- has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
19:29 iblech (The subclasses are mostly only ten lines or so long, mostly protocol handlers, e.g. URI::http, URI::ftp, etc.)
19:29 * iblech waits for Aankhen`` to resurrect :)
19:36 khisanth_ has joined #perl6
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19:37 sri_ is glob implemented now?
19:38 G2 has joined #perl6
19:40 Aankhen`` iblech >> Thank you for reminding me.
19:41 * Aankhen`` wonders how many times he must be told that URI has been ported before it finally sinks in.
19:41 Aankhen`` Hmmm... how can we integrate that with Pugs?
19:41 PerlJam sri_: I don't think so.
19:42 sri_ then i'll commit something based on File::Find and Text::Glob
19:43 * Aankhen`` pokes iblech.
19:43 iblech Aankhen``: Yep?
19:43 Aankhen`` How can your URI distro be integrated with Pugs?
19:45 ninereasons has quit IRC (""bye"")
19:46 iblech Aankhen``: As I think some idioms don't work yet in Pugs -- simply continue to port URI in ext/, and have an occasional look at my port
19:46 iblech Aankhen``: Or you might want to copy a module.pm and modify it so it works in Pugs
19:48 Aankhen`` Alright.
19:48 iblech Aankhen``: I.e. you can orientate yourself at my port
19:48 nothingmuch http://sial.org/pbot/10925
19:48 Aankhen`` I was just looking at it from the point of view of keeping both of them synchronised.
19:49 * Aankhen`` wonders how you get VS.NET to alter the PATH when building a project...
19:50 Aankhen`` Oh.
19:50 Aankhen`` I just figured it out.
19:50 Aankhen`` I love me.
19:50 iblech No need to keep my FreePAN port synchronised -- that's only a burden for you, I think. We can simply remove my port when your one in ext/ is finished
19:50 iblech (I think)
19:52 Aankhen`` Oh $#@!
19:52 Aankhen`` .
19:55 iblech nothingmuch: Nice! :)
19:57 nothingmuch appearantly "here cell allot" is spelled ",", but that doesn't sound as dramatic =/
19:57 svnbot6 r4513, iblech++ | lib/Perl6/Pugs.pm -- More documentation
19:57 jhorwitz has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
20:01 Aankhen`` ?eval 128.as("%%%02X")
20:01 evalbot6 pugs: Printf.printf: bad formatting char X
20:01 Aankhen`` ?eval 128.as("%%%02x")
20:01 evalbot6 pugs: Printf.printf: bad argument
20:01 Aankhen`` ?eval 128.as("%%%02d")
20:01 evalbot6 pugs: Printf.printf: bad argument
20:01 Aankhen`` Bah.
20:02 iblech ?eval sprintf "%%%02X", 128
20:02 evalbot6 pugs: Printf.printf: bad formatting char X
20:02 iblech ?eval sprintf "%%%02x", 128
20:02 evalbot6 '%80'
20:05 _H_ has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
20:08 Boogie_ has joined #perl6
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20:10 Aankhen`` iblech >> You seem to have a P5 style s/// in &uri_unescape.
20:18 autrijus_ my laptop's motherboard just died on me (!)
20:18 svnbot6 r4514, Aankhen++ | * EOL at EOF.
20:18 svnbot6 r4514, Aankhen++ | * return 1!
20:18 svnbot6 r4515, Aankhen++ | - changed C<sprintf> to C<.as>.
20:20 Limbic_Region Aankhen`` - does that mean you can say say $str.as('%.2f'); # ???
20:21 Aankhen`` Apparently.
20:21 Aankhen`` ?eval 123.as('%04d')
20:21 evalbot6 pugs: Printf.printf: bad argument
20:21 Aankhen`` But it doesn't seem to work in Pugs.
20:21 Aankhen`` I got it from iblech's URI::Escape.
20:22 Aankhen`` Come to think of it, I remember reading about .as.
20:22 autrijus_ .as works only for %s yet
20:22 Aankhen`` OK.
20:22 Limbic_Region ?eval my $str = '123'; $str.as('%.2d')
20:22 Odin- has quit IRC (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
20:22 evalbot6 pugs: Printf.printf: bad argument
20:22 * autrijus_ hopes the laptop doesn't burn up
20:22 Odin- has joined #perl6
20:22 Aankhen`` ?eval 123.as('%s')
20:22 evalbot6 '123'
20:22 Limbic_Region hey autrijus - how are things?
20:23 * Limbic_Region has been throwing rocks at hornet nests
20:23 * Aankhen`` hopes it doesn't burn up either.
20:23 autrijus_ <- in the same room as jens, Boogie__, chip, leo
20:23 autrijus_ just got the network up
20:23 autrijus_ took some work
20:23 svnbot6 r4516, Aankhen++ | * &URI::Escape::uri_escape (::Str, ::Str, ::Bool) -- changed $pattern to a regular string.
20:23 svnbot6 r4516, Aankhen++ | * &URI::Escape::uri_escape (::Str) -- added C<return>.
20:23 svnbot6 r4516, Aankhen++ | * implemented &URI::Escape::fail_hi.
20:23 autrijus_ as it's late here we're just going to hold a planning meeting
20:23 autrijus_ for the things we can do tomorrow
20:24 Limbic_Region autrijus_ - with the help of tall_man, I have found a bug in pugs that is going to have significant impact
20:24 autrijus_ Limbic_Region: good!
20:24 autrijus_ Limbic_Region: pray tell
20:25 Limbic_Region the bug itself is probably trivial, but the fact there are a good portion of tests that rely on the bad/incorrect behavior - they all need to change
20:25 autrijus_ so I'm pushing for perl5 embed support (as opposed to perl 5 hosting support as ponie)
20:25 Boogie___ has joined #perl6
20:25 autrijus_ Limbic_Region: sure. what was the bug?
20:25 autrijus_ perl 5 embed support in ponie that is
20:25 Limbic_Region ?eval sub bar ( +$foo ) { $foo } bar( foo => 3);
20:25 autrijus_ er
20:25 evalbot6 \3
20:25 autrijus_ perl 5 embed support in parrot that is
20:25 Limbic_Region works as expected right
20:25 autrijus_ right
20:25 Limbic_Region ?eval sub bar ( +$foo ) { $foo } bar( 3);
20:25 evalbot6 \3
20:25 autrijus_ was about to ask what's the problem with that
20:25 Limbic_Region also works as expected???? wrong
20:25 autrijus_ it's wrong.
20:26 autrijus_ named bindings shouldn't take positional arguments.
20:26 autrijus_ it's a regression
20:26 Limbic_Region named parameters must be named
20:26 autrijus_ clkao reported that chained comparisons cease to work either
20:26 autrijus_ 6 > 5 > 4
20:26 autrijus_ is no longer true
20:26 autrijus_ both worked a few releases back :-/
20:26 Limbic_Region but there are apparently a signficant number of tests depending on that incorrect behavior
20:26 * autrijus_ hates regressions
20:26 autrijus_ Limbic_Region: depending how?
20:27 Limbic_Region meaning the signature is named but they are passed as positional
20:27 Boogie__ has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:27 autrijus_ nod... so we need to 1)fix the bug
20:27 autrijus_ and 2)unbreak the tests
20:27 Limbic_Region and see which previously working tests start breaking
20:28 autrijus_ yup.
20:28 obra autrijus_: should 0E0 be 0 but true?
20:28 Limbic_Region tall_man has identified two bugs now - really would like to convince him to join the madness
20:28 autrijus_ obra: no.
20:28 obra :(
20:28 Boogie_ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:28 svnbot6 r4517, Aankhen++ | - changed C<is export> to C<is export(:DEFAULT)>.  iblech++
20:29 autrijus_ Limbic_Region: I'll make you a metacommitter and you can send invitations
20:29 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo (Array of Str *@foo) { gather { for @foo -> $bar { take $bar.uc() } } } foo("foo", "bar", "baz")
20:29 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "o" expecting "?", "*", "+", "++" or parameter name
20:29 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo (*@foo) { gather { for @foo -> $bar { take $bar.uc() } } } foo("foo", "bar", "baz")
20:29 evalbot6 ('FOO', 'BAR', 'BAZ')
20:29 revdiablo ah, that reminds me, pugs -e 'my $foo = { bar => { baz => (<one two three>) } }; say ref $foo<bar><baz>' # print Str, shouldn't it print Array?
20:29 revdiablo maybe my pugs is out of date
20:29 Limbic_Region autrijus_ - I don't think that would work in this case - he seems unconvinced about having enough free time
20:29 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo (*@foo of Str) { gather { for @foo -> $bar { take $bar.uc() } } } foo("foo", "bar", "baz")
20:29 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "o" expecting trait, ",", ":" or ")"
20:29 * Aankhen`` sighs.
20:30 Aankhen`` ?eval my $foo = { bar => { baz => (<one two three>) } }; ref $foo<bar><baz>
20:30 evalbot6 ::Str
20:30 autrijus_ Limbic_Region: the trick is to send the invitation
20:30 autrijus_ and it's up to the other party to take it
20:30 revdiablo Aankhen``: ah, you beat me to it
20:30 Aankhen`` ^_^
20:30 Limbic_Region well - if I find his email address I will ask
20:30 revdiablo I can add a test somewhere if there isn't already one
20:31 knewt_ has joined #perl6
20:31 revdiablo ?eval my $foo = { bar => { baz => [<one two three>] } }; ref $foo<bar><baz>
20:31 evalbot6 ::Str
20:31 Limbic_Region ok - time for weekend
20:31 revdiablo that's actually what I meant
20:31 Limbic_Region TTFN all
20:31 revdiablo cya Limbic_Region
20:31 Aankhen`` ?eval my $foo = { bar => [<one two three>] }; $foo.ref;
20:31 evalbot6 ::Hash
20:31 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("tiuq\")
20:31 Aankhen`` ?eval my $foo = { bar => [<one two three>] }; $foo<bar>.ref;
20:31 evalbot6 ::Str
20:32 Aankhen`` ?eval my $foo = { bar => [<one two three>] }; $foo<bar>[0].ref;
20:32 evalbot6 ::Str
20:32 Aankhen`` ?eval my $foo = { bar => [1, <one two three>] }; $foo<bar>.ref;
20:32 evalbot6 ::Int
20:32 Aankhen`` Seems to be taking on the ref of the first element.
20:32 Aankhen`` ?eval my $foo = { bar => [1] }; $foo<bar>.ref;
20:32 evalbot6 ::Int
20:33 Aankhen`` ?eval my $foo = { bar => (1) }; $foo<bar>.ref;
20:33 evalbot6 ::Int
20:33 gaal autrijus, hi, i need some help with Reader
20:33 revdiablo ?eval my $foo = [ 'bar', [1, 2, 3] ]; $foo[1].ref
20:33 evalbot6 ::Array
20:33 revdiablo so it works in an arrayref, but not in a hashref?
20:34 gaal have been reworking caller per larry's notes
20:34 svnbot6 r4518, Aankhen++ | * fixed signature for &URI::Escape::uri_unescape.
20:34 gaal but now i'm stuck with the monad part (which used to work)
20:34 Aankhen`` ?eval my $foo = [ <one two three> ]; $foo.ref
20:34 evalbot6 ::Array
20:35 Aankhen`` ?eval my $foo = [ <one two three> ]; $foo ~~ Ref
20:35 evalbot6 bool::false
20:35 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "caller WIP" (32 lines, 1.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/10926
20:35 Aankhen`` ?eval my $foo = <one two three>; $foo ~~ Ref
20:35 evalbot6 bool::false
20:35 autrijus_ gaal: what was the error?
20:35 gaal it's a type error on return $ Just caller ++ (local (const caller) (fetchCaller))
20:35 gaal i know why it's an error
20:35 revdiablo t/data_types/mixed_multi_dimensional.t looks to be the place
20:36 gaal because local returns m a
20:36 gaal but i don't know how (if) my approach can be fixed
20:36 gaal what i'm trying to do is make fetchCaller a generator of deeper and deeper stack frames
20:37 autrijus_ foo <- local (const caller) fetchCaller
20:37 autrijus_ return $ Just (caller ++ foo)
20:38 gaal what's foo's type?
20:38 nothingmuch autrijus_: did you see the link I sent you?
20:38 autrijus_ nothingmuch: no
20:38 revdiablo    my $h = { a => [ 1,2,3 ] };
20:38 revdiablo    is($h<a>.ref, 'Array', "array nested in hashref in one declaration");
20:38 revdiablo does that seem sane?
20:38 autrijus_ gaal: "env"?
20:38 autrijus_ Env that is
20:38 autrijus_ you can't ++ it though
20:38 nothingmuch http://www.ultratechnology.com/meta.html
20:39 nothingmuch I'm writing a bare metal forth chapter
20:39 svnbot6 r4519, iblech++ | Added a test for sprintf() and as() (t/builtins/sprintf_and_as.t).
20:39 Aankhen`` Is there any clear disadvantage to using MMD?
20:39 gaal another thing i tried was to use repeat, outside of fetCaller
20:39 Aankhen`` Does it result in a large slowdown?
20:39 gaal return . repeat fetchCaller
20:39 revdiablo maybe I should :todo<bug>
20:40 gaal that didn't work either but i forget why
20:40 arcady has joined #perl6
20:40 Aankhen`` I've been splitting subs into multi subs like crazy... dunno whether that's a bad idea.
20:40 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
20:41 arcady probably not a bad idea
20:41 arcady makes it more functional-like and haskelly
20:41 nothingmuch arcady: you are probably also interested in the link
20:42 arcady huh?
20:42 nothingmuch http://www.ultratechnology.com/meta.html
20:42 nothingmuch Aankhen``: i think multisubs should be the default
20:42 nothingmuch read docs/mmd.kwid
20:43 elmex has joined #perl6
20:43 nothingmuch and please finalize it if you can, I don't know what exact semantics I would really like
20:43 nothingmuch if/when you finish, post the proposal to p6l =)
20:48 autrijus_ jens++
20:48 svnbot6 r4520, Aankhen++ | * whoops... apparently &URI::Escape::uri_unescape did need that signature; modified it to use MMD.
20:48 svnbot6 r4521, iblech++ | examples/ -- Moved some examples to new examples/algorithms/.
20:48 svnbot6 r4522, revdiablo++ | added test for HoA declared in one statement
20:48 autrijus_ # promise to help me out to get hw2005 in TeX
20:51 Aankhen`` ?eval :foo<bar>
20:51 evalbot6 ('foo' => 'bar')
20:51 * Aankhen`` neatly sidesteps nothingmuch's blame transfer.
20:51 nothingmuch Aankhen``: it's not a blame transfer, i just thought you might be interested
20:51 Aankhen`` nothingmuch >> Seriously, though, I don't know nearly enough about SMD and MMD, and the relative merits and demerits of each.
20:52 nothingmuch nor do i =)
20:52 Aankhen`` Heh.
20:52 nothingmuch Class::Events is just an experiment that made it seem like MMD is the way to go
20:52 nothingmuch and i tried to think, and it looked like SMD does not conflict with MMD everywhere
20:52 nothingmuch but we do get basic pattern matching everywhere
20:52 nothingmuch it is very post object oriented
20:53 gaal ok, i want to simplify this. env has an envCaller, which i want to locally "be in". can i turn that into a list at all?
20:53 autrijus_ a list?
20:53 gaal i wanted to do this:
20:54 gaal formatFrame $ last $ take skip $ filter wantFrame $ repeat $ fetchCaller
20:54 gaal more or less
20:54 dkf has quit IRC ()
20:54 gaal this uses fetchCaller as a generator of
20:54 gaal er
20:54 gaal monadic inspiration
20:54 gaal and filters the first frame based on frame type (wantFrame)
20:54 Boogie___ http://feather.perl6.nl/~boogie/flipchart.html
20:54 nothingmuch has quit IRC ()
20:55 gaal and takes the correct one (last $ take skip)
20:55 gaal however, these envs aren't really values to be passed around, are they?
20:55 autrijus_ they are
20:55 autrijus_ you can just take them out
20:55 autrijus_ and cast them to Val even
20:55 autrijus_ if you want to do that
20:55 autrijus_ VControl (ControlEnv env) :: Val
20:56 gaal i think it makes it simpler in this case?
20:56 autrijus_ gaal: but sorry, I'm trying to follow chip/leo on the STM-on-parrot discussion here
20:56 autrijus_ gaal: that's possible
20:56 gaal okay, thanks muchly for so the help so far.
20:57 Boogie___ http://feather.perl6.nl/~boogie/flipchart.html <- so this is what behind Chip currently on the flipchart. ;)
20:58 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo ({ $bar, $baz, *%quux }) { ... }
20:58 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "{" expecting formal parameter, ":" or ")"
20:58 svnbot6 r4523, Aankhen++ | * moved ext/URI-Escape/ to ext/URI/.
20:59 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
21:00 Aankhen`` G'night.
21:00 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Connection reset by pheer [Time wasted online: 2hrs 33mins 41secs]")
21:00 nothingmuch blah
21:04 autrijus_ heya nothingmuch.
21:04 autrijus_ nothingmuch: we're figuring out how to add STM to parrot
21:04 autrijus_ (with chip and leo)
21:04 nothingmuch hi ho
21:04 kolibrie has quit IRC ("leaving")
21:04 nothingmuch autrijus_: #parrot or IRL?
21:05 nothingmuch how does STM get along with JIT?
21:05 Boogie___ IRL, they are together at Leo's place. :)
21:05 nothingmuch ah
21:05 zuulvin_ has joined #perl6
21:06 nothingmuch btw, will any(chip|leo) be at the hackathon?
21:07 autrijus_ nothingmuch: IRL
21:07 autrijus_ nothingmuch: STM is just a way for a SharedFoo PMC todo bookkeeping
21:07 autrijus_ so has nothing really to do with JIT
21:07 nothingmuch doesn't STM require boxed types to stay sane?
21:07 vcv- has joined #perl6
21:08 autrijus_ nothingmuch: PMCs are all boxed.
21:08 autrijus_ nothingmuch: even in JIT mode.
21:08 nothingmuch and isn't JIT's purpose to do away with boxed types were possible, to gain (hardware dependant) performance?
21:08 nothingmuch my $i = 1;
21:08 gaal k, i'm passing maybe envs now; how do i enter Reader (?) so that when i do have the Env i want, when i call readVar the lookup happens in the correct context?
21:08 nothingmuch what is that compiled down to? a PMC?
21:08 nothingmuch I thought Integer, or whatever the builtin type is
21:09 autrijus_ nothingmuch: the JIT won't have effects on PMCs
21:09 autrijus_ let alone shared PMCs
21:09 nothingmuch ah
21:10 arcady I think you have to say "my int $i = 1" to actualy get a native integer
21:10 gaal ahhh, with local?
21:10 nothingmuch oh, btw, ask chip if he's seen the bottom half of mmd.kwid
21:10 khisanth_ has joined #perl6
21:10 nothingmuch arcady: why not wait with that till we find out it can't be an 'int'?
21:12 nothingmuch like when it's shared, or has a method called on it, or has a role attached
21:12 domm autrijus_: et.al.: so you arrived well at Leos place?
21:12 Boogie___ domm: well
21:12 domm Boogie___: thanks for the APW report
21:12 domm I have slight problems understanding it, though :-)
21:13 autrijus_ APW report?
21:13 domm http://weblabor.hu/hirek/20050609/austrianperlworkshop
21:13 Boogie___ domm: wirelesses are on, so we're happy
21:13 Boogie___ domm: currently they are planning what they will talk about
21:14 Boogie___ domm: and about other topics - cool topics ;)
21:14 Boogie___ doom: well, Hungarian is not easy to understand. Actually, nothing special, it's just a blog.
21:14 domm I'm very glad that I finally managed to contribute something to Perl6/Parrot/Pugs
21:15 domm Even if it's not code, but (only) bringing three people together to (hopefully) produce a lot of code (or specs) next week
21:16 domm (in fact, mor than tree people, how many are staying at Leos place? 4? 5?
21:16 Khisanth has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
21:16 Boogie___ As I see, it will be very-very-very useful. I've heard some "Ahh, now I got the idea" even during travelling here. :)
21:16 domm cool!
21:17 Boogie____ has joined #perl6
21:19 Boogie____ And as I heard, somebody will join tomorrow
21:19 Boogie____ Unfortunatly, I will leave tomorrow night. :(
21:21 * nothingmuch showers
21:21 domm nothingmuch: while beeing on irc?
21:21 nothingmuch domm: no, only autrijus_ can do that
21:21 nothingmuch well, i guess i can do it
21:21 domm :-)
21:21 nothingmuch but i'm not sure I want to =)
21:25 * domm goes to bed # workshop organising /is/ exhausting
21:25 justatheory has joined #perl6
21:25 Boogie____ http://feather.perl6.nl/~boogie/flipchart.html update
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22:46 clkao ?eval 3 < 10 < 6
22:46 evalbot6 bool::true
22:46 clkao slackers :p
22:46 knewt_ has quit IRC ("sleep")
22:52 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
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