Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-06-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:00 svnbot6 r4897, putter++ | Removed misguided modules/Grammars/rx_emit_examples.pl. (author)
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01:47 meppl gute nacht  -  good night
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02:17 * scrottie waves to Juerd
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02:51 autrijus rehi \camels
02:51 autrijus <- about to go to airport in 4 minutes
02:51 autrijus wish me safe travel etc :)
02:52 coral hi
02:52 coral travel etc
02:52 autrijus thanks etc
02:52 mugwump have a great time in ::na!
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02:56 * autrijus waves &
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03:12 svnbot6 r4898, mugwump++ | Refine as per S10; AUTOSCALAR, AUTOMETH, etc, get passed the method name on the argument list, not via global
03:12 svnbot6 r4899, mugwump++ | Add notes about discovered bugs ... more later
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03:26 spinclad safe trip and all
03:34 coral wtf
03:34 coral autrijus++ # converges to 2*pi
03:34 coral HAHAHA
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04:59 * autrijus praises free wifi in the vienna airport
04:59 obra Hi autrijus
04:59 autrijus yo obra.
04:59 obra How goes?
04:59 autrijus still 25min to go till boarding
05:00 autrijus just fine... got a huge list of issues listed on the ThinkPad to work out thru hackathon
05:00 * obra plans a birthday present for himself. No customer work tomorrow :)
05:00 * obra grins
05:01 autrijus oh wow. the billboard says boarding in 25 mins but the announcer says 5mins till boarding
05:01 * autrijus wonders why is it the case
05:01 coral human-connected systems
05:01 obra autrijus: fly safe
05:01 autrijus indeed.
05:01 autrijus obra: thanks!
05:02 * autrijus waves &
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05:09 mugwump I almost missed a plane because of that on my last flight
05:09 mugwump after having already missed 2 planes on that journey, that would really have been adding insult to injury
05:10 mugwump no "boarding" light by my flight.  So I thought I'd saunter up through the security and wait at the gate.  Sure enough, I get hurried to board.
05:11 Khisanth bad airport?
05:13 mugwump one of the other planes I'd missed was on the way there from that airport because the information/service was rubbish
05:14 mugwump And because the airline didn't have any communications... they had faxed authorisation of my boarding before they turned me away
05:15 * mugwump sighs
05:15 arcady yeah, airlines are annoying
05:15 mugwump all because a travel agent didn't post my tickets to me
05:15 arcady I found out the hard way that for American I have to check in at least 45 minutes before the flight
05:15 mugwump or even indicate I needed to pick them up
05:16 arcady it's been a long time since I've actually had a real ticket...
05:17 mugwump that's what I said, and the travel agent said to me, "don't you know that travel from $airport always needs paper tickets?"
05:17 mugwump then she started saying about how far above and beyond they'd gone by paying the rebooking fee
05:17 mugwump I really chewed her out for that comment
05:18 Khisanth arcady: I think the recommendation was 90 minutes
05:19 mugwump varies per country/airport/intl. vs. natl.
05:19 mugwump I was told 20 minutes once :)
05:20 Khisanth I mean in the US
05:20 * Khisanth has only been on a plane 2 or 3 times
05:25 arcady the worst thing is that airlines have different standards
05:26 arcady but at least getting there early gives you time to prepare yourself when you get that SSSS on the boarding pass
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05:31 mugwump SSSS?
05:33 arcady Sucker Selected for Special Search
05:33 arcady well, it's what they print on your boarding pass if you are a "selectee"
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05:33 arcady for the special detailed search
05:36 mugwump that's a pretty fucking dumb thing to print on someone's card
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05:37 mugwump but hey, I bet it cuts down on (detected) airport crime!  :)
05:39 arcady yeah, it's a security hole that's been discussed to great lengths already
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06:14 svnbot6 r4900, gaal++ | minor fixes
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06:18 * geoffb resolves out of the aether
06:18 geoffb FINALLY caught up on last 4 days of #perl6
06:18 geoffb And might I say:
06:19 geoffb iblech++ putter++ autrijus++ # 'cause ... DAMN.
06:19 geoffb And I bet I forgot a few . . . but those are the ones I saw so many times I lost count
06:20 geoffb autrijus, when you're back: Did you ever manage to get the OpenFoundry bug hammered out?
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06:21 geoffb autrijus, also: what do you mean when you say 'gnoming'?  From context I get: "banging away on something in the background until it is better"
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06:42 gaal geoffb: http://gnoming.net/episodeii/images.html for example
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06:46 geoffb gaal, yes, that meaning came up a lot in the Google results.  It didn't seem to fit autrijus' meaning
06:46 * geoffb in his "straight man" mode
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06:53 nothingmuch morning!
06:55 nothingmuch does anyone know the budapest airport
06:57 geoffb nope -- that would imply significantly more worldliness than I can afford.  :-)
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07:08 svnbot6 r4901, geoffb++ | * Add newly created second-level directories to pugs::hack
07:08 svnbot6 r4901, geoffb++ | * Improve t/pugsbugs/ description in pugs::hack from
07:08 svnbot6 r4901, geoffb++ |   autrijus comments on #perl6
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07:12 geoffb OK, time for bed.
07:12 scrottie sleep well!
07:12 * geoffb dissolves back into the aether
07:12 geoffb thx, scrottie
07:14 nothingmuch ciao
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07:30 ingy nothingmuch: when is your flight?
07:30 nothingmuch 4 hours
07:30 nothingmuch no, 5 hours
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07:32 ingy Records show that three types of short nosed dogs were bred  by the Chinese.They were the Lion dog, the Pekingese and the Lo-sze.The Lo-sze or "Foo Dog" was the ancient Pug.
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07:32 ingy Foo Dog indeed
07:32 nothingmuch =)
07:33 ingy have a nice flight
07:33 ingy what time of day do you arrive in Toronto?
07:33 nothingmuch 14 hours
07:33 nothingmuch 17:50 toronto localtime
07:34 ingy oh, I land 19:30ish
07:34 ingy oh right... on Weds
07:34 ingy when does autrijus arrive?
07:34 nothingmuch in around 5 hours
07:35 ingy yow
07:35 nothingmuch yeah, poor him
07:35 ingy is chip flying with him?
07:35 nothingmuch i don't think so
07:35 nothingmuch chip is arriving tomorrow
07:37 * nothingmuch heapifies harrorth
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07:40 nothingmuch aha! i think I have a use for gadts!
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10:30 Shillo Hullo, all.
10:31 Juerd Hi.
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11:12 Shillo http://www.sidhe.org/~dan/blog/ got a pretty cool read. Dan decided to publish his old notes on Parrot. :)
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11:20 Aragone is now known as Arathorn
11:22 Arathorn so, is anyone actually going to explain to the guys on the sidelines what on earth happened such that dan packed it all in?
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11:24 Shillo Don't ask me, I'm a guy on the sidelines. ;)
11:27 mugwump arathorn: he didn't pack it in, he just moved on, AIUI.  But I'm a latecomer to the picture.
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11:35 * Arathorn nods
11:35 Arathorn but still, he implies that general terribleness happened of some flavour to incline him to move on
11:36 acme_ sometimes people just burn out
11:36 Arathorn if that's what happened, then fair enough
11:36 Arathorn if that's not what happened, then the community should learn from whatever mistakes/screwups occurred
11:37 Arathorn lest someday the dudes on the sidelines are in a position to unintentionally repeat them :)
11:38 mugwump well, the archives are there, feel free to read.
11:38 Arathorn has there been a postmortem that i've missed, then?
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11:38 * Arathorn looks
11:39 * mugwump cues "Sing for the moment" by Eminem, raising strange disapproving&disappointed looks from the onlookers
11:40 Arathorn only mention I ever saw was dan saying "there was a *lot* of tension, but not on the lists"
11:42 mugwump my take on it is this: any take on it this close to the event is sensationalism
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11:43 Arathorn very meta
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11:43 Arathorn i just hope someone has a take on it before everyone prefers to forget about it all :)
11:43 Shillo Anyhow, his blog says he's going to be on YAPC::NA, so...
11:43 Shillo He's not -quite- out of the picture.
11:47 * Arathorn finally finds the threads in question on p6i
11:48 Arathorn all makes sense
11:48 Arathorn (well, more than it did before)
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12:04 Shillo Arathorn: Well, didn't make much sense to me, to be honest. I was a part of one or two discussions where Dan got really worked out, and I still frankly don't understand why he did.
12:05 Shillo I'm not sure I want to know, though.  ;)
12:06 Arathorn i'd somehow managed to miss the threads where he got stressed - and it seems to be over design decisions
12:06 Arathorn e.g. the whole missing MMD default function stuff
12:07 Arathorn so if you step down from glorious leader, and then disagree with the subsequent decisions, no surprise you'd want to walk away
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12:30 svnbot6 r4902, iblech++ | * util/version_h.pl -- Silenced the "filehandle STDIN reopened..." warning.
12:30 svnbot6 r4902, iblech++ | * src/Pugs/Embed/Parrot.hsc -- Don't only check %*ENV<PUGS_PARROT_OPTS> for
12:30 svnbot6 r4902, iblech++ |   definedness only, but check if it actually contains some chars (as system
12:30 svnbot6 r4902, iblech++ |   "parrot", "", "..." won't work).
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12:48 svnbot6 r4902, iblech++ | * util/version_h.pl -- Silenced the "filehandle STDIN reopened..." warning.
12:48 svnbot6 r4902, iblech++ | * src/Pugs/Embed/Parrot.hsc -- Don't only check %*ENV<PUGS_PARROT_OPTS> for
12:48 svnbot6 r4902, iblech++ |   definedness only, but check if it actually contains some chars (as system
12:48 svnbot6 r4902, iblech++ |   "parrot", "", "..." won't work).
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14:37 mugwump sorry to commit parsefail tests, will sort out within 24hr...
14:39 * mugwump & # sleep
14:48 svnbot6 r4903, iblech++ | Pugs.Compile.PIR -- Trivial one word patch: s/unless_null/if_null/, now macros work:
14:48 svnbot6 r4903, iblech++ |   pugs -CPIR -we 'macro zz ($a) { warn "[$a]"; return { 42 } } say zz(5)'
14:48 svnbot6 r4903, iblech++ | This says "[5]" at compile-time and outputs "42" at run-time. Macros which
14:48 svnbot6 r4903, iblech++ | return strings work too.
14:48 svnbot6 r4904, mugwump++ | Rid code of subsecond abberation :)
14:48 svnbot6 r4904, mugwump++ | Calculate last day in month
14:48 svnbot6 r4904, mugwump++ | Add first three tests from DateTime test suite
14:48 svnbot6 r4904, mugwump++ | More enhancements as the DateTime API is reviewed, time_t tests
14:48 svnbot6 r4904, mugwump++ | Create Date::Format heirarchy
14:48 svnbot6 r4904, mugwump++ | Getting closer to getting some tests passing ...
14:48 svnbot6 r4904, mugwump++ | Add Date::Format::ISO8601
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15:16 geoffb So iblech,
15:16 geoffb I've been meaning to ask, your svn properties script does the application, but how are you choosing which files to apply to?  Just watching for "A" in the output from SVK or SVN?
15:17 iblech Basically yes. But of course, I manually check if it's really a non-binary file.
15:18 geoffb nodnod
15:18 iblech If somebody would checkin a .png, I'll add svn:mime-type -> image/png and don't set svn:eol-style
15:18 geoffb Yeah, that's what I've been doing to determine when I need to update hack.bod
15:18 geoffb er hack.pod
15:18 geoffb nodnod
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16:09 svnbot6 r4905, iblech++ | * Usual svn properties added to mugwump++'s new ext/Data files.
16:09 svnbot6 r4905, iblech++ | * Pugs.Compile.PIR -- Even though commit r4903 did work, it was wrong --
16:09 svnbot6 r4905, iblech++ |   attempted a cleaner fix.
16:14 * broquaint wonders if iblechbot replaced his creator ...
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16:19 geoffb what does iblechbot do?
16:20 geoffb Or is it just a login from a different system?
16:20 iblech broquaint: :D
16:20 iblech geoffb: iblechbot is a simple (well, actually rather complex) IRC log bot, written in Perl 5 using POE
16:21 geoffb why complex?
16:21 wilx Because POE is beyond reach of any mortal being.
16:22 iblech geoffb: (See http://m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/iblechbot-2.png for a screenshot of its web interface)
16:23 iblech geoffb: There're three parts: 1. The bot, which simply joins some channels and stays connected. The complexity here is that the bot should reconnect if the connection died, etc.
16:23 geoffb nodnod
16:24 geoffb (and not a bad UI -- an improvement on the official channel logger's UI
16:24 geoffb the colabti.de one, I mean
16:25 iblech Then there's part 2., an logging IRC proxy. Part 1. does not directly connect to irc.foo.org, but it uses an IRC proxy. This proxy doesn't change the data which is transmitted, but it logs the replies it gets from the server -- i.e. PRIVMSG, NOTICE, JOIN, PART, etc. Additionally, it injects /WHO #channel for each channel the bot is on, to get fresh realname information about the users on the channels
16:25 iblech geoffb: Indeed
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16:26 geoffb iblech, interesting
16:26 Odin- has joined #perl6
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16:26 iblech geoffb: And then there's part 3., the web interface, which uses a graph to determine the minimum number of nick colors necessary (less colors ==> more contrasting colors, more colors ==> less contrasting colors)
16:26 geoffb (y)
16:27 geoffb definitely cool.  released?
16:28 iblech Technically it is (i.e. the .tar.bz2 is online -- http://m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/iblechbot.html), but there's no documentation etc.
16:28 geoffb tsk, tsk.  ;-)
16:30 iblech BTW, I then rewrote each part several times =) (Net::IRC -> POE::Component::IRC, POE::Component::Server::HTTP -> HTTP::Daemon, IO::Socket -> POE::Component::Server::TCP)
16:31 geoffb Interesting that two went to POE and one went *away* from POE
16:32 * geoffb has never used POE as he has for years just written his own event systems and is now used to his creations
16:34 iblech (Choose the right tool for the job)++ :)
16:34 geoffb Hmmm, does the karma bot know about (...)?
16:34 geoffb karma job)
16:34 jabbot geoffb: job) has neutral karma
16:34 geoffb karma (Choose the right tool for the job)
16:34 jabbot geoffb: (Choose the right tool for the job) has neutral karma
16:35 Limbic_Region IOW - if it is un-balanced parens you are SOL
16:35 geoffb Limbic_Region, huh?
16:36 iblech karma Choose the right tool for the job
16:36 jabbot iblech: Choose the right tool for the job has neutral karma
16:36 Limbic_Region you have to group with parens - but if you have both a space and only 1 paren - it isn't possible to karma it
16:36 Limbic_Region oh - and that's perlbot not jabbot
16:36 Limbic_Region perlbot karma for Choose the right tool for the job
16:36 perlbot Karma for Choose the right tool for the job: 1
16:36 geoffb ah
16:37 geoffb so I take it jabbot replies to anything it sees, whereas perlbot needs to be asked directly
16:37 geoffb ?
16:37 * Limbic_Region is only used to perlbot having primarily hung out in freenode's #perl
16:38 * geoffb has been only on channels without info bots between about college and this month.  :-0
16:38 geoffb er
16:38 geoffb :-)
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21:07 integral hmm, is src/Pugs/Compile/PIR/Prelude.hs causing build problems for others too?
21:08 geoffb Hmmm, haven't pulled in a while, will do so now and check
21:08 integral .oO( I should figure out how to check smoke reports )
21:08 * geoffb just finished writing outline and all code steps for next OpenGL/Perl article
21:09 geoffb Hmmm, src/Pugs/Compile/PIR.hs changed, but not .../Prelude.hs
21:09 geoffb rebuilding anyway
21:10 geoffb (You had good timing, integral -- you asked just as I did 'svn commit' in other window and thought "I need to take a break from this.")
21:11 geoffb Reminds me, need to re-checkout that tree using SVK, now that I have that tool in my arsenal . . . muahahaha
21:13 integral just looks like gen_prelude needs hacked, and the Makefile
21:14 integral err, nope, gen_prelude already supports different module names :-)
21:14 integral hmm, and it appears the Makefile.PL already calls it correctly :-/
21:15 geoffb Pugs.Compile.PIR.Prelude compiled just fine for me, but I have embed == P5 on, Parrot off
21:15 integral ah, I've got parrot on
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21:17 geoffb Given that I actually have an SVK mirror of parrot, I suppose I should get around to actually building and installing it, so I can turn parrot embed on . . . .
21:17 integral hmm, and the Makefile is calling gen_prelude correctly :-/
21:18 * integral guesses that his gen_prelude isn't rebuild by make unoptimized
21:18 integral nope, wrong guess
21:18 geoffb could be.  I'm in a habit of "make realclean" before every build
21:18 * geoffb doesn't trust makefiles.  Er, pretty much ever.
21:18 integral hmm!  well it rebuild after I deleted the file,  the mtime must have been mucked up or something
21:19 geoffb wheee
21:19 integral ah, if I did that everytime I'd never stop compiling =)
21:19 integral ah, src/gen_prelude has no deps >-|
21:19 geoffb I usually only compile pugs once a day, while I'm reading the backlog in the morning
21:19 geoffb So the machine multitasks for a while, and it's not such a big deal.
21:20 geoffb Then again, I'm mostly writing tests and waiting for --perl5 support to get further along, rather than hacking src/...
21:20 integral I'm low on memory, so it's a bit of a pain, and 2 minutes is nicer than 10 :-)
21:20 geoffb Yeah, my box is pretty memory-tight as well.
21:21 geoffb I made the mistake a bit ago of deciding to bring up a firefox window to browse while I waited, AFTER starting the pugs compile.  The old SCSI disk had a swap conniption.
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21:22 * integral hopes the omission wasn't deliberate, and commits
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21:25 geoffb Anybody have any idea when autrijus and nothingmuch are supposed to be back online?
21:26 geoffb OK, time to get AFK for a while
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21:34 svnbot6 r4906, bsmith++ | Added src/gen_prelude.hs as a dependency of src/gen_prelude.exe.
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21:35 * integral spots a little issue with the Trans monad
21:40 integral ah, I think I know my mistake: I'm thinking the Stmt+Ins data structure is emitter specific, but maybe it's not?
21:41 integral hmm, except that doesn't make sense when you consider than Translate is designed to output to different emitters, but if they all use Stmts, you only need one Translate (?) ?
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