Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-06-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:41 meppl gute nacht  -  good night
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00:47 svnbot6 r4907, autrijus++ | * better handling of modules and qualified names in PIR generation.
00:51 autrijus integral: still there?
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01:35 nothingmuch greetings from the autrijus & nothingmuch hackathonon
01:36 nothingmuch oh my, autrijus just took his laptop to the shower
01:36 kelan mini-hackathon?
01:37 kelan nothingmuch: what happens in the 7th and 8th chapters of harrorth? fun things?
01:37 nothingmuch well, hackathon starts tomorrow, but we arrived a day early
01:37 kelan ah
01:37 autrijus rehi \camels :)
01:37 nothingmuch i'm 40 something hours without sleep, so remind me what the titles of 7 & 8 are
01:38 kelan let me check
01:38 kelan chapter 7 starts "Forth for Real"
01:38 nothingmuch ah
01:38 nothingmuch that tries to model forth more closely
01:38 nothingmuch we're going to have another chapter like that
01:38 nothingmuch i've tried doing the next one 3-4 times already
01:38 kelan and 8 is "Implementing Our New Knowledge"
01:39 nothingmuch each time i backed out of my strategy
01:39 nothingmuch oh, i see
01:39 nothingmuch so 7 is a forth primer
01:39 nothingmuch discussing "true"er forth
01:39 nothingmuch regardless of harrorth
01:39 autrijus the one-level-up-truth
01:39 * kelan nods
01:39 nothingmuch and chapter 8 tries to take some of the ideas of chapter 7 and impelment them
01:39 autrijus "the truth... is up there" or something
01:40 nothingmuch to an extend it does it very well... : is a word, ; is an immediate word, etc
01:40 kelan any plans for the hackathon yet?
01:40 nothingmuch i guess "we'll see" is probably the best strategy
01:40 nothingmuch what autrijus is trying to say is that i just told him that every time I try doing soemthing forthish my forth guru shows me yet another neat trick
01:41 nothingmuch a sort of zen slap
01:41 nothingmuch there's no shortage in work
01:46 * autrijus sees no complimentary towels nothingmuch talked about
01:46 autrijus nvm, got mine
01:52 * nothingmuch wonders if porting Devel::FIXME to perl 6 will be with macros or with hooks
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01:58 * geoffb reappears
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02:01 geoffb autrijus.ping('OpenFoundry bug')
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02:04 autrijus geoffb: looking into it now
02:04 autrijus finally got connection
02:04 geoffb thanks!
02:04 * autrijus blames toronto and dusseldorf airports for not having wireless
02:05 nothingmuch budapest had nice wifi
02:05 geoffb bastards.  :-)
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02:05 autrijus something really fishy is going on with openfoundry's nfs
02:05 nothingmuch i rsynced 400mb of comic books from my home box
02:05 autrijus sec
02:05 nothingmuch then i read one
02:06 nothingmuch and felt too sleepy for the rest
02:06 nothingmuch it was a good plan for passing the flight, but I just wasn't up to it =(
02:06 mugwump (paper books)++
02:11 nothingmuch mugwump: indeed
02:11 nothingmuch i think that and the tripod are the bulk of my suitecase
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02:42 autrijus geoffb: too silly
02:42 autrijus the Rationale field is >255bytes
02:42 autrijus and hence borked the RT thing
02:42 autrijus underneath
02:42 autrijus with no good errmsg
02:43 autrijus geoffb: so I trimmed it to one line
02:43 autrijus and lo it worked
02:43 autrijus ;)
02:44 autrijus geoffb: so, enjoy -- I'll trim things in the code now
02:48 autrijus geoffb: fixed as r1173
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02:55 svnbot6 r4908, autrijus++ | * remove debug messages
02:57 abez ? eval 1+1
02:57 abez ?eval 1+1
02:59 abez seen Darren_Duncan
02:59 jabbot abez: Darren_Duncan was seen 1 days 7 hours 33 minutes 41 seconds ago
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03:01 abez ?eval $x=3; $x
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03:02 geoffb autrijus, sorry, was AFK putting kiddo to bed
03:02 geoffb Lemme check if the project appears on my page
03:04 geoffb yep, it's there
03:04 geoffb Bloody stupid that RT barfed on a too-long field
03:06 * geoffb chuckles at the random shuffling of Chinese and English
03:09 geoffb Bah, anyone know which fonts to select for Debian's Firefox package to get fairly unicode-complete fonts?  I'd rather see the nice soothing Chinese characters rather than a bunch of hex codepoints all over the page . . . .
03:10 mugwump try ttf-arphic-*
03:12 revdiablo geoffb: there's a gigantic arialuni.ttf you can find that has a lot of unicode characters in it
03:12 revdiablo hmm, seems that it comes with MS Office
03:13 mugwump all 23MB of it :)
03:14 geoffb Well, MS Office won't work for me, since I don't have (easy) access to it . . . but trying Arial off the menu just in case
03:15 geoffb hmmm, nope
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03:16 Khisanth hmm I have to zoom to 200%
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03:16 mugwump my unicode support ♙♟s !
03:17 Khisanth mine too
03:17 geoffb mugwump, what is that supposed to show?
03:17 Khisanth but apparently not things like Chinese!
03:17 mugwump That's two chess pieces from plane 0x26
03:17 mugwump pawns
03:17 geoffb ah
03:18 geoffb OK, mugwump, I know I want Unicode instead of GB or Big5 versions of ttf-arphic-*, but what's the difference between ttf-arphic-ukai and ttf-arphic-uming?
03:19 geoffb <rant>And why doesn't installation of a desktop not depend on a good set of unicode fonts in this day and age?!?</rant?
03:19 mugwump I think that the difference comes down to the style of the characters
03:20 geoffb what westerners would think of as a typeface, or something orthogonal to that?
03:20 mugwump sure
03:20 geoffb LOL
03:21 geoffb Or as my father used to say, "Why yes."
03:21 mugwump 我能寫中文
03:22 mugwump That should have been 5 characters
03:24 geoffb Well, in xchat I see it as 5 codepoints, but I'm working on apt-get'ing more fonts now.
03:24 geoffb :-)
03:25 revdiablo I see 3 boxes and 2 characters, I guess that means I have irssi mostly behaving. :)
03:27 mugwump 我能写中文  # what about that?
03:28 jql works for me
03:30 mugwump actually only one character is different there, the middle one the simplified character "写" is used instead of traditional "寫" (xĭe, to write)
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03:33 * geoffb selects a few random fonts from the boggling list from `apt-cache search xfonts` and gives his net connection a thrashing
03:33 revdiablo weird. that time I got 4 boxes, one character, then another box
03:33 jql those glyphs all work fine for me
03:33 * jql hugs ubuntu
03:34 revdiablo jql: hmm, what font packages do you have installed?
03:34 revdiablo I wonder if there are Real Debian (tm) counterparts
03:34 geoffb And more importantly, *which one are you using*
03:35 geoffb revdiablo had my thought first
03:35 jql just the base install of kubuntu with the devel kit and firefox (which means +gtk)
03:35 geoffb :-)
03:35 geoffb What font are you using in your chat client?
03:35 geoffb (or *term, as the case may be)
03:36 jql client. utf-8 encoded bitstream vera
03:36 geoffb hmmm, checking
03:36 mugwump fixed (6x13) and 9x15 have the best unicode coverage of the fixed fonts, apparently
03:36 jql and the client is utf-8 encoded, not the font. :)
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03:39 * geoffb tries Bitstream Vera with firefox while ttf-arphic finishes installing
03:39 jql I have Big5, BT, and Batang fonts installed, too
03:39 jql wicked
03:39 mugwump yeah, I tend to install the lot, too.
03:40 jql GB, not BT
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03:40 jql bizzare thinko
03:40 mugwump batang?
03:40 jql forean iirc
03:40 jql s/f/k/
03:41 coral bat-tang
03:46 geoffb brb
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03:51 geoffb mugwump, can you repaste those characters?
03:52 mugwump 我能寫中文, 我能写中文
03:53 geoffb oh, now that's MUCH better
03:53 coral ?????, ?????
03:54 geoffb And the difference between the two ttf-arphic fonts is: squarish v. handwritingish
03:54 jql spiffy
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03:56 geoffb ah-ha!  Now I understand why I couldn't see changes between fonts in the extended characters -- when you change fonts in xchat, if the new one doesn't support some glyphs that the old one did, it appears to keep the bitmaps generated for the old font
03:56 geoffb -- FOR JUST THOSE CHARACTERS
03:56 coral heh!
03:56 geoffb a usefullish feature, but damned surprising
03:58 jql hah. cute but evil
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03:58 Khisanth hmm that is probably pango's doing
03:59 mugwump wŏ néng xǐe Hànyǚ pínyín
04:00 mugwump wŏ néng dă zì Hànyǚ pínyín, perhaps
04:01 mugwump Can you see those?  All latin characters with various unusual accents, including a u with umlaut *and* upsidedown circumflex
04:01 geoffb Khisanth, it's the kind of thing that makes me want to figure out a "best order" to cycle through fonts to get the western characters *and* the unicode characters good from that point on
04:01 geoffb mugwump, yep
04:01 geoffb can now
04:02 Khisanth geoffb: I just use "Monospace" whatever font that is suppose to be :)
04:03 geoffb Khisanth, that was my starting point -- because I assumed that the package monkeys would Do The Right Thing.  Unfortunately, they are also Only Human
04:04 Khisanth I mean in xchat, and have my charset set to utf8
04:04 geoffb mugwump, what is your natal language?
04:04 geoffb (I could swear I've seen you use several)
04:05 mugwump Geordie
04:05 * geoffb blinks
04:05 mugwump way-oo man?
04:06 * geoffb was not expecting an answer that would leave him more confused than before
04:06 mugwump Then I learned cockney, a year of floridan, followed by many years of kiwi
04:06 mugwump these are all English dialects ;)
04:07 geoffb I recognized all but Geordie.  All I could think of was "Laforge?"
04:07 * Khisanth was unfortunately thinking the same ...
04:08 Khisanth of course the next thought that popped up was "wtf?"
04:08 geoffb NODNOD
04:08 * jql doesn't recall Cmdr Laforge speaking another language... that universal translator rocks
04:08 mugwump yee mean yee divvent understand Geordie?
04:11 geoffb Favorite episode of TNG: when aliens with reference-only language beam captain down to random planet to force them to work through the fact that the universal translator couldn't fix their completely different languages
04:12 mugwump sounds like taking babelfish on for not being able to handle east/west translation :)
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05:00 geoffb Any SVK gurus about?  #svk seems to be quiet (AKA, no answer to question)
05:03 mugwump sadly no, they're all asleep or travelling to YAPC::na I think
05:03 mugwump just trollers like me about
05:04 revdiablo I know a bit about svk and svn
05:04 revdiablo hardly would call myself a guru, but maybe I can help
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05:19 mugwump cool ... you've seen the parrot SDL examples aye geoffb ?
05:20 geoffb Actually, still haven't got off my ass and compiled a parrot recent enough to include parrot SDL, despite having svk co'ed it a few days ago, sigh
05:21 geoffb But as I recall, chromatic hadn't done the OpenGL side of it yet.
05:21 geoffb Besides, the Perl 5 people deserve an actual working bugfree compatible portable version of SDL_perl . . . .
05:22 geoffb And as soon as they have it, I intend to mercilessly push for 'use SDL::OpenGL--perl5' to Do The Right Thing
05:22 geoffb :-)
05:24 mugwump sounds excellent.  There could even be a PP6 (pure perl 6) SDL module that wraps whichever backend is available
05:24 * mugwump can just keep on dreaming you know ;)
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05:25 mugwump Something along the lines of freevo would be an excellent demo project
05:25 mugwump largely because Freevo is slow, inflexible and generally just bites... but looks great on the lounge TV
05:26 geoffb So we want to show them that it works better with Perl 6 than Python?
05:27 mugwump no, we want to show them that perl 6 coders are cooler than python coders.  priorities.
05:27 geoffb :-)
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06:40 * geoffb is growing bleary-eyed staring at diffs for hours on end
06:41 geoffb Methinks the remaining merges will have to wait for morning
06:41 geoffb g'night, all
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07:49 mugwump gah, didn't get a chance to fix up those broken Date::Gregorian tests ... sorry people :(
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07:49 * mugwump & # full moon party
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10:45 nothingmuch good morning
10:45 autrijus yo
10:48 broquaint How's NA, autrijus?
10:48 clkao hello autrijus
10:51 autrijus very nice
10:52 autrijus turns out nothingmuch dreamed about parsing forth's higher order functions as bytes, and muttered something about parsing literals in his sleep
10:53 autrijus so the rest of the night I dreamed about optimising literals -- that is constant folding in the SSA/ANF dominance tree -- in the lambda calculus
10:53 autrijus ...and hence started hackathon even before we ake up
10:53 autrijus ;)
10:53 autrijus s/ake/wake/
10:54 nothingmuch hackathonon
10:54 broquaint Now all you need is a brain => haskell dump that doesn't require a keyboard ...
10:54 broquaint Or should that be, brain ==> haskell ? ;)
10:54 autrijus come to think about it, maybe I should get a Ghost in the Shell brain-port tattoo here
10:54 autrijus always wanted to get one
10:54 nothingmuch well, we talked about stuff when we arrived, and I don't think I was awake at the time either
10:54 nothingmuch brain >>= haskell
10:55 broquaint I figure brain-port tatoos will be available in Taiwan first, if anywhere.
10:59 autrijus http://www.justplay.nl/media/7/20040506-Neck%20GITS.jpg
11:00 autrijus # older model -- I wanted the more sophisticated panel-like one -- but something like that
11:00 broquaint Wireless would be ideal.
11:00 autrijus indeed.
11:19 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/autrijs_wifi_ghost_shell.jpg =D
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11:19 nothingmuch i kind of screwed up the fake gradient background, because I sampled the wrong color
11:19 nothingmuch sorry
11:20 autrijus lol, nothingmuch++
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11:27 nothingmuch properly (un)focused version online
11:27 nothingmuch (sort of ;-)
11:27 nothingmuch time for breakfast
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11:45 kungfuftr autrijus++ # brain port tattoo would be fonq
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12:03 stef__ salut slanning :)
12:03 slanning salut
12:04 autrijus greetings.
12:05 nothingmuch autrijus is "sleeping", he told me so 10 minutes ago
12:05 nothingmuch don't listen to him ;-)
12:06 autrijus I am!
12:06 * autrijus is even snorting
12:06 stef__ who cares, you just sait your are programming in your sleep
12:06 autrijus that'd be correct
12:06 stef__ just need a plug to make sure the sleep work is indeed saved somewhere
12:07 autrijus I use a brain-local branch of svk
12:07 autrijus so I can commit to //hippocampus/...
12:07 slanning :)
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12:29 * autrijus wakes up
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13:14 svnbot6 r4909, autrijus++ | * fix export aliasing and nesting in PIR compilation
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14:52 dudley Does anybody know if there's a perl6 mode for emacs anywhere?
14:53 autrijus not afaics
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14:54 dudley I was afraid of that. I guess I should start learning lisp...
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14:55 * QtPlatypus has been using the standard cperl that works with perl5, "Unfortunitly it brakes more then it works"
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15:05 slanning dudley: excluding the docs at the beginning, cperl-mode.el is only about 7200 lines long
15:06 integral ~ 1/3 of pugs :-/
15:08 dudley slanning: Yeah, I scrolled through it a couple of days ago.
15:08 dudley I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something out there already.
15:08 QtPlatypus I wounder how hard it would be to make pugs dump its parse tree in the form of an s-expression so that emacs has a better chance of working out what everthing means.  Otherwise the problem is going to be very hard.
15:09 slanning 8)
15:09 autrijus QtPlatypus: -CPugs uses haskell exp form
15:09 autrijus which should be trivial to s-expressionalise
15:09 autrijus or you can write a Emit.SExpr...
15:10 integral perl6->elisp 8-)
15:11 dudley QtPlatypus: I think the problem is going to be very hard anyway, considering I don't know perl6 or elisp yet ; )
15:13 QtPlatypus dudley: Lisp isn't that difficult.  Personally I just wish that elisp had lexical scoping.
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15:26 slanning what do i install to get the "happy preprocessor" ? (needed during build of haskell-src-exts which is required for hs-plugins)
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15:29 autrijus slanning:  http://www.haskell.org/happy/
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15:35 integral autrijus: to use a different emitter in Pugs.Compile.PIR do I need to write a different Translate class?
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15:35 integral The one in there atm uses the Trans monad which uses Stmt from Emit.PIR
15:36 autrijus integral: you need to factor out Pugs.Compile.PIR to Pugs.Compile, and then factor out Pugs.Compile.PIR into Pugs.Trans.PIR
15:36 autrijus and then write your own Translate class in Pugs.Trans.Perl5
15:36 autrijus making only use of Compile
15:36 autrijus instead of the Translate defined inPIR
15:36 autrijus essentially every translator defines its own Translate class.
15:37 integral ok, that makes sense :-)
15:37 autrijus glad I'm making sense :)
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15:44 slanning thanks, autrijus - now i have the prereqs installed, but it says "Pugs build should not get here" - is there something special like `make dist` to be done when using the checkout from darcs instead of from CPAN?
15:45 slanning (it says that during `perl Makefile.PL` I should've said)
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15:51 slanning hmm, in fact it does the same thing from `cpan`, therefore "no"
15:51 slanning (or not necessarily no, but irrelevant)
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15:52 autrijus hrm.
15:53 autrijus weird
15:53 autrijus try checking out from subversion and see if it works?
15:53 * autrijus wonders if there's a sync problem
15:54 slanning it's inc/Module/Install.pm line 29, included from line 8 of Makefile.PL if that says anything - but i will try checking out from subversion
15:54 slanning is subversion the "standard" checkout, then?
15:55 autrijus it is.
15:55 autrijus but it should be identical from darcs
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15:57 slanning hm, same thing :/  i must've skipped something somewhere
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15:59 autrijus :/
16:00 autrijus you have a shell I can try on?
16:00 autrijus never happened before
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16:07 slanning no, i think the firewall prevents accessing from outside
16:09 slanning cpansign -v also doesn't work (MISSING Signature file!) if that gives any hint
16:09 slanning that's why i thought maybe i need to `make dist` or something
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16:22 autrijus no... the missing signature is known for development version
16:23 stef has joined #perl6
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16:26 slanning hello, david :)
16:33 nothingmuch ugh. I don't like it when people make things so much more complicated than what they should be
16:33 nothingmuch it's even worse when people make things more complicated than they already are.
16:36 broquaint Who needs --long-options -wsowd?
16:43 slanning ew my god, $FindBin::Bin is saying /home/slanning/bric/svn/rev_1_8/bin whereas i'm executing `perl Makefile.PL` from /home/slanning/pugs/pugs-darcs -- i think my debian perl upgrade today might've hosed something :/
16:44 slanning but perl -MFindBin -le'print $FindBin::Bin' works as expected -- hm..
16:44 kungfuftr is there a multiline hash style comment available in perl6?
16:47 autrijus hash style?
16:49 kungfuftr ie: # This is a comment
16:50 kungfuftr would be nice if you could do something like "#**********\nThis\nis\na\ncomment\n#**********\n"
16:51 kungfuftr or something like a code block that was a comment
16:52 kungfuftr autrijus: if you clock what i mean
16:52 wolverian kungfuftr: =pod?
16:52 Khisanth heh
16:52 kungfuftr wolverian: pod must start at the start of the line
16:52 wolverian kungfuftr: true enough.
16:53 kungfuftr wolverian: =0)
16:53 wolverian kungfuftr: can you find a character series that isn't ambiguous in perl6 that could be used for an in-expression comment block?
16:53 kungfuftr #{ }
16:53 wolverian (I couldn't find one for perl5...)
16:53 wolverian hmm.
16:53 autrijus #{ #}
16:53 autrijus #{ }#
16:53 wolverian yeah, didn't think of using # in it.
16:53 wolverian sounds like a p6l issue.
16:53 autrijus I rather like that, yes.
16:54 kungfuftr *blink*
16:54 wolverian I rather like pod, myself.
16:54 wolverian literate programming and all that..
16:54 kungfuftr wolverian: pod is great, but i use pod for usage documentation and hash comments for when i really need to describe what's going on in this part of the code
16:55 wolverian kungfuftr: =for hackers
16:55 geoffb Whereas I HATE pod.
16:55 slanning i think pod is an abomination
16:55 geoffb slanning appears to agree
16:55 kungfuftr wolverian: breaks up indenting
16:55 wolverian geoffb: yes, me too. I love the concept, though.
16:55 wolverian kungfuftr: yes.
16:56 geoffb Yeah, the concept isn't bad -- pretty good, even.  The syntax is awful.  Worst syntactical mistake Larry every made, IMHO
16:56 geoffb oh dammit, brb
16:56 wolverian geoffb: good thing it's being fixed in perl6 then!
16:56 nothingmuch i think pod comments still apply
16:56 kungfuftr autrijus: i don't have proper net access at the minute... can you8 forward it to p6l?
16:56 kungfuftr geoffb: pod is being replaced with Kwid, iirc
16:57 * nothingmuch needs to make sure to scroll down before answering questions
16:57 nothingmuch oh, whoops
16:57 kungfuftr pod comments for describing the ins and outs for a particular peice of code are BAD, m'kay
16:57 wolverian kungfuftr: why?
16:58 * QtPlatypus thinks that there should be a documentation taint to subs.
16:59 wolverian QtPlatypus: the language that really uses that, python, seems woefully underdocumented to me.
16:59 kungfuftr wolverian: breaks indenting, will confuse pod translators and will completely screw auto-indenters
16:59 wolverian (in many places.)
16:59 wolverian kungfuftr: the latter two have never been a problem for me. honestly, never. the first issue is, of course, true.
16:59 kungfuftr hash-comments are for code, pod is for describing how to use that code
16:59 QtPlatypus wolverian: I've seen it used in Lisps as well.
16:59 wolverian QtPlatypus: I meant to say 'the language I know ...'
16:59 wolverian :)
17:00 slanning documentation taint?
17:00 wolverian kungfuftr: I like POD because it lifts comments to an equal standing with code. comments are not embedded in code, the file just alternates between the two! that is literal programming, to an extent.
17:00 wolverian slanning: I assume he meant 'trait'
17:01 * QtPlatypus is assuming that I meant 'trait' as well.
17:02 kungfuftr wolverian: there's fairly often i need to describe how a particular regex works in the code for the rest of my team
17:02 kungfuftr bbl
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17:02 wolverian kungfuftr: sure. but there's nothing forcing you to not use POD for it.
17:02 slanning i've still never heard of "documentation trait", but i think you mean like in elisp where you add a docstring as the first line of a function
17:03 wolverian slanning: something like that, yes. perhaps using perl6's trait functionality.
17:03 QtPlatypus slanning: Exactly.
17:03 wolverian slanning: if you don't know what traits are in perl6, read http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S12.html
17:03 slanning oh, it's perl6 vocabulary, that explains it :)
17:05 QtPlatypus Would make it possable to implement perl6explain (or whatever its going to be called) open ended.
17:05 svnbot6 r4910, autrijus++ | * detab; use Noop for END blocks
17:07 Khisanth nothingmuch: you keep missing that six in the URL :p
17:08 broquaint has quit IRC ("teh home")
17:08 nothingmuch Khisanth: oh crap, that's not in the URL
17:08 nothingmuch that's just pbotutil with nothing
17:08 Khisanth ah
17:08 nothingmuch i thought it didn't announce anywhere, i'll revise my conf
17:08 Khisanth time to fix settings?
17:09 nothingmuch yes =)
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17:12 nothingmuch Khisanth: ping
17:12 Khisanth hrm?
17:12 nothingmuch where is it normally announced? #perl?
17:13 nothingmuch 11278 should not have been pasted
17:13 Khisanth yes
17:13 nothingmuch okay, seems like it didn't
17:14 Khisanth err didn't see a 11278
17:14 nothingmuch goody
17:21 autrijus nothingmuch: t/subroutines/arg_ref_type_preservation.t
17:21 svnbot6 r4911, autrijus++ | * So much for not compromising... change the := ?? :: line
17:21 svnbot6 r4911, autrijus++ |   in Test.pm so it can work with PIR.
17:27 slanning hm, if i do `perl Makefile.PL` it fails because $FindBin::Bin is wrong, but if i `chmod 755 Makefile.PL` and `./Makefile.PL` it works - but `which perl` says "/usr/bin/perl" which is what the top of Makefile.PL says
17:28 slanning does that say anything to anyone? i'm going crazy
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17:32 autrijus slanning: your perl in path is not /usr/bin/perl ?
17:32 autrijus and do you have problem installing other cpan modules?
17:33 autrijus which platforms is this?
17:37 slanning `which perl` says /usr/bin/perl; Pod::Text installed okay from `cpan`, though probably it just doesn't use FindBin; debian, which i think is where the problem is from because the perl package updated today
17:37 slanning hm, maybe `which perl` is lying
17:39 slanning no, /usr/bin/perl is the only `perl' in my $PATH
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17:40 geoffb sheesh, bak
17:42 geoffb autrijus, what did you change in 4911 (while I go `svk pull`)?  And why?
17:42 autrijus geoffb: there's this line
17:42 autrijus $ok := $cond ?? "ok " :: "not ok "
17:42 autrijus which aliases $ok to a constant string
17:43 nothingmuch Khisanth: i saw my name in #perl, and i've been googling for logs for 3 minutes now, and found nothing
17:43 nothingmuch i closed the window before I could react though
17:43 autrijus and I gave up, after trying to ~2hr, to simulate it in parrot
17:43 nothingmuch so i missed whatever you said, if you said anything
17:43 autrijus geoffb: so I changed it to a simple if/unless
17:43 autrijus that's all.
17:43 geoffb gotcha
17:43 Khisanth I haven't said anything to you in #perl recently
17:44 nothingmuch i saw "nothing: "
17:44 nothingmuch or something like that... perhaps it was around 10 minutes ago, about the pbotutil
17:44 geoffb Well, honestly, as crazy as Test.pm does, I think it's got the wrong design ideal -- it should not *itself* be a test of language features.  In fact, it should be just plain *boring*, because it's used to test the language features . . . .
17:44 Khisanth you sure it wasn't #perl6?
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17:45 slanning I set PARROT_PATH=/usr/local/parrot-0.2.1 ; in Makefile.PL, `sub parrot_config', it basically chdir($PARROT_PATH) then `./parrot parrot-config.imc ...`; but `parrot` isn't in $PARROT_PATH, it's in $PARROT_PATH/bin (linked to from /usr/local/bin), while parrot-config.imc is in $PARROT_PATH
17:46 nothingmuch quite sure
17:46 geoffb That was part of where I was going with t/01-sanity -- eventually there should be a set of tests in there that include all the necessary functionality for a cleaner, meaner Test.pm.
17:46 nothingmuch but not sure it was "nothing: ", could have been just "nothing"
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17:48 Khisanth ah that was PerlJam :)
17:48 slanning hm, i think i'm going to cut my losses (several hours) and give up - good luck
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17:48 Khisanth 1119461459<PerlJam>     Khisanth: nothing.  That's another option.
17:56 integral *argh* PIL is type-indexed on Stmt and friends from Emit.PIR :-/
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18:00 nothingmuch Khisanth: yes, that was it
18:04 rajagopal has joined #perl6
18:04 svnbot6 r4912, autrijus++ | * add Shlomi to AUTHORS for the readline bug report -- no idea
18:04 svnbot6 r4912, autrijus++ |   why I didn't added him earlier
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18:05 nothingmuch well, maybe because he didn't really help ;-)
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18:44 svnbot6 r4913, bsmith++ | Moved the Compile class to Pugs.Compile.  The interface to the compilers
18:44 svnbot6 r4913, bsmith++ | is in Pugs.Trans (for the moment at least).
18:46 geoffb has joined #perl6
18:47 geoffb D'oh!  /quit != /leave
18:47 arcady has joined #perl6
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18:55 nothingmuch_ hackathon time
18:55 nothingmuch_ ciao everyone!
18:55 geoffb go nothingmuch_ !
18:59 Qiang hm. they got cable internet in the cottage?
18:59 svnbot6 r4914, autrijus++ | * 01-sanity/07-test.t is now working!
18:59 stef_ has joined #perl6
19:00 geoffb Go autrijus!
19:01 autrijus alright. I'm going to meel lwall at all
19:01 autrijus and stevan and other friends
19:01 * autrijus waves &
19:01 Odin-LAP has joined #perl6
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19:05 PerlJam If "meeling" is anything like "mealing" I hope no one does that to lwall  ;-)
19:05 svnbot6 r4915, autrijus++ | * `make pirsmoke` is now a reality...
19:06 integral .oO( make BACKEND=PIR smoke if we have multiple backends )
19:07 PerlJam surely you mean "PUGSBACKEND=pir make smoke"
19:07 integral maybe :-)
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19:12 Khisanth hmm
19:13 Khisanth PerlJam: but don't some cannibals believe that when they eat other people, they are acquiring some traits and such from those they eat?
19:13 PerlJam Khisanth: aye, 'tis true.  I still hope no one does it to lwall.
19:15 Khisanth Qiang: they don't NEED internet and I think it's something slightly slower
19:19 geoffb AAAAAUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHH!  I HATE WORKING WITH C!
19:20 geoffb I believe, deep in my heart of hearts, that gcc error messages were designed specifically to piss me off.
19:20 arcady and C hates working with you
19:20 Khisanth but C is fun!
19:20 geoffb The C I learned in college was fun.
19:20 Khisanth geoffb: they seem to have gotten better over the years
19:20 integral segfaults lead to hours of entertainment!
19:20 geoffb The C I have to deal with now is NOT
19:21 Khisanth wait not, gcc error messages are ok, g++ error messages are just cryptic
19:21 arcady C++ is just cryptic
19:21 arcady and leads to such fun things as internal compiler errors
19:21 geoffb 'syntax error before "foo"' is driving me nuts.
19:21 geoffb How far before "foo", jerkoff?!?
19:22 geoffb arcady, bleah, good to know it could always be worse
19:22 stef_ Knisanth: i would say he would acquire some properties, not traits :)
19:23 stef_ depends if you consider eating as compilation or runtime...
19:23 * geoffb is trying to get glprocs.c to compile in Debian, so that the Wayne's new SDL_perl automatic-GL-extensions-code will work on something other than Win32.
19:23 Khisanth don't think I have ever seen an "internal compiler error"
19:23 Khisanth hopefully never will
19:23 integral GHC does those occasionally with pugs
19:24 geoffb Khisanth, I second that emotion
19:24 Khisanth geoffb: missing brace or semicolon somewhere? :)
19:24 geoffb Khisanth, that's what I'm thinking maybe, but I can't figure out where.
19:25 geoffb And these header files are so damned repetitive, they lull your eyes into missing stuff
19:34 stef has joined #perl6
19:34 svnbot6 r4916, bsmith++ | Moved Pugs.Compile.PIR to Pugs.Trans.PIR
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19:42 * geoffb breathes deeply
19:43 geoffb must . . . stop . . . fist . . . of . . . death
19:43 geoffb I'm thinking it's header file version skew
19:43 Khisanth more C?
19:43 geoffb yep
19:44 Khisanth what are you writing this C for anyway?
19:44 * geoffb looks at the long picture:
19:44 geoffb If I get this to work, then SDL_perl 1.x will be resurrected stronger than before, more powerful, faster . . . .
19:45 geoffb And I can get back to trying to get SDL_perl and pugs to work nicely together.  ;-)
19:45 Khisanth hmm
19:46 lightstep fight version skew: http://www.haskell.org/tmrwiki/EternalCompatibilityInTheory
19:46 geoffb And really, I'm not writing the C.  Just trying to merge Wayne's work in the Win32 world with current Debian package.
19:47 geoffb But Wayne unfortunately did some Win32-specific stuff, and my C merging skills are weak.
19:47 arcady I wonder what parrot's NCI would think of the opengl libraries
19:47 geoffb arcady, if I get this working, I might throw some energy at that as well.  :-)
19:48 lightstep sorry, it's my first day, i don't even know what SDL is
19:48 lightstep nor NCI
19:48 stef_ has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
19:48 integral there's already a ParNCI SDL binding :-)
19:48 arcady parrot's NCI is not very difficult to use, I think
19:48 lightstep oh, wait, i recall SDL
19:48 geoffb lightstep, SDL is a cross-platform, cross-language toolset for doing simple graphics stuff.  NCI is Native Call Interface
19:48 geoffb ah
19:49 geoffb integral, yep: without OpenGL, last I heard
19:49 integral oh well :-)
19:49 geoffb And OpenGL is what I actually want to have working.
19:50 * geoffb would really like to just port my 3D engine to Perl 6 and throw away all of the source filtering that gets me just partway to the happy place
19:50 geoffb But to do that, I need to get pugs and SDL::OpenGL to talk to each other.  And to do that, I need to get recent SDL_perl to build on Debian.  Which is where I currently am.
19:50 geoffb About this far -->  <-- from yak shaving
19:52 khisanth_ has joined #perl6
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19:53 khisanth_ so as I was saying ...
19:53 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
19:53 Khisanth so the latest SDL Perl doesn't actually work anywhere besides windows?
19:54 geoffb s/latest/latest 1.x/
19:54 geoffb but otherwise, yes
19:54 geoffb Because that's all Wayne has . . .
19:54 geoffb I'm working to bring his work back to the masses
19:54 khisanth_ has joined #perl6
19:55 geoffb Um, did you see my reply?  It's looking like you're having connection issue
19:55 geoffb s
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19:56 Khisanth yes I did
19:56 geoffb k
19:57 geoffb OK, afk for a few to make sandwich and clear head, then back to try banging on this again
20:12 * integral gives PIL a nasty look for being type-indexed on Emit.PIR types
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21:14 stef Reading package info from stdin... ghc-pkg: Line 1: Invalid syntax (no colon after field name)  # does someone get that when trying to compile ghc plugins?
21:16 stef hum. plugin.conf.inplace which is fed to ghc-pkg containes only "[]\n"
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21:29 geoffb stef, I think I saw that when I was first trying to build.
21:29 geoffb Um, what was that . . . .
21:29 geoffb old ghc version?
21:30 stef nope, 6.4
21:30 stef delivered by mandriva thx to rgs
21:31 geoffb damn, what *was* that
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21:32 geoffb sorry stef, can't remember for the life of me.  I know I've seen it though, so it's not an unknown issue . . . just not a documented fix, I guess.
21:32 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
21:34 stef I see the same kind of error in the log of #haskell
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21:38 geoffb stef, you know, I seem to recall having missed a prereq in the chain . . . check the READMEs again carefully, perhaps?  Sorry I'm not giving better help, but I know somewhere in my brain there's the answer, and I'm kinda poking at it.  :-)
21:40 Darren_Duncan ?eval 1+1
21:40 Darren_Duncan ?pugs 1+1
21:41 mugwump jabbot: seen evalbot6?
21:41 jabbot mugwump: evalbot6 was seen 5 days 15 hours 6 minutes 17 seconds ago
21:42 Darren_Duncan I tried it yesterday within my local perl mongers meeting, to demonstrate it, and it didn't work ... alas
21:42 Darren_Duncan the meetings topic was on IRC etc bots
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21:58 geoffb my @tasks_stack = < pugs+opengl pugs+SDL_perl SDL_perl-1.20.5 glprocs.c GLsdk-glxdemo >.map:{ "Get $_ to build on Debian" }; @tasks.pop # And there was much rejoicing . . . .
21:59 geoffb well, the latter was supposed to be @tasks_stack.pop, but oh well
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22:15 Khisanth geoffb: finally got it to work?
22:17 geoffb I figured there might be a problem with Wayne's merge of GLsdk into SDL_perl.  So I downloaded the raw GLsdk and went to compile that.  After a few fixes, I got its demo to work, and with the knowledge gained there, am hacking on the previous problem again.
22:17 geoffb Wish me luck.  :-)
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22:37 geoffb BOO-YAH --  @tasks_stack.pop
22:55 stef_ has joined #perl6
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22:55 geoffb ALL RIGHT!  @tasks_stack.pop
22:55 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
22:57 geoffb @tasks_stack.push('Now that SDL_perl builds and installs on Debian, finish merge with Wayne and try again.')
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