Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-06-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:18 Guest53185 a
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01:26 nothingmuch a
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01:40 nothingmuch seen Alias
01:40 jabbot nothingmuch: I havn't seen Alias , nothingmuch
01:41 nothingmuch uh, he spells his name with an underscore, right?
01:47 Juerd seen Alias
01:47 jabbot Juerd: I havn't seen Alias , Juerd
01:47 Juerd jabbot: STUPID BOT, REMOVE THAT SPACE BEFORE THE COMMA. IT IS MISLEADING.
01:47 jabbot Juerd: 所以?
01:47 Juerd and s/havn/haven/
01:55 gugod alas
01:55 gugod my bad
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03:08 * theorbtwo wonders what he's missed.
03:10 Khisanth nothing!
03:14 theorbtwo Is the SVN still down?
03:17 hcchien I guess so
03:17 nothingmuch hackathon:
03:17 nothingmuch "monkey butts evaluate to doodoo"
03:18 nothingmuch or "monkey buts evaluate to do do"
03:18 nothingmuch what fun
03:22 theorbtwo Nothimgmuch, you remind me of me, but smarter and more immature.
03:22 theorbtwo At the moment, however, I haven't a clue what you are talking about.
03:23 theorbtwo (God, bandwidth is nice.)
03:29 nothingmuch Obj.new but { $obj.method };
03:29 nothingmuch my $obj = Obj.new;
03:29 nothingmuch $obj.method;
03:29 nothingmuch $obj
03:29 nothingmuch these are the same things
03:29 nothingmuch do given Obj.new { .method; $_ }
03:29 nothingmuch at some point someone mentioned 'do d'
03:29 nothingmuch 'do do'
03:29 nothingmuch and 'but' on a closure is known as monkey but
03:29 nothingmuch see also monkey_but.t when it gets checked in
03:30 nothingmuch (that is to say, when openfoundry is back up)
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03:31 theorbtwo Looks like a reasonable equilency, but I don't see where do do comes into it.
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03:32 theorbtwo Whatever.
03:32 theorbtwo Hackathon is fun, but I can't get anything done there.\
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03:36 theorbtwo Eeep.  I can't remember my perlmonks password.  Either of them.
03:37 theorbtwo ...and it's my freaking site.
03:38 * theorbtwo sshes in and asks.
03:42 theorbtwo Oh, there we go, found the godly one.
03:42 theorbtwo Brain so molten.
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03:58 brentdax Is Perl 5 interop known to [not]? work on AMD64?
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04:44 mugwump blast, still no SVN huh?
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04:47 mugwump all those in favour of a temporary public SVN server for the meantime say aye
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06:46 svnbot6 r4946, mugwump++ |  r15293@speights:  samv | 2005-06-25 20:59:17 +1200
06:46 svnbot6 r4946, mugwump++ |  Disable Date::Gregorian, even minimal class fails to load (?)
06:46 svnbot6 r4947, mugwump++ |  r15294@speights:  samv | 2005-06-25 21:08:17 +1200
06:46 svnbot6 r4947, mugwump++ |  t/00load.t passes
06:46 svnbot6 r4948, mugwump++ |  r15295@speights:  samv | 2005-06-25 21:47:10 +1200
06:46 svnbot6 r4948, mugwump++ |  Make t/01sanity.t pass
06:46 svnbot6 r4949, mugwump++ |  r15296@speights:  samv | 2005-06-25 22:44:38 +1200
06:46 svnbot6 r4949, mugwump++ |  some tests for attribute mutators
06:46 svnbot6 r4950, mugwump++ |  r15297@speights:  samv | 2005-06-25 23:27:21 +1200
06:46 svnbot6 r4950, mugwump++ |  Make a stub test to test Test script output
06:46 svnbot6 r4951, mugwump++ |  r15298@speights:  samv | 2005-06-25 23:42:52 +1200
06:46 svnbot6 r4951, mugwump++ |  Make t/02last_day.t fail gracefully
06:46 svnbot6 r4952, mugwump++ |  r15299@speights:  samv | 2005-06-25 23:59:35 +1200
06:46 svnbot6 r4952, mugwump++ |  make a few tests pass and comment out the rest
06:46 svnbot6 r4953, mugwump++ |  r15300@speights:  samv | 2005-06-26 00:02:24 +1200
06:46 svnbot6 r4953, mugwump++ |  TODO a broken test, check in changes to make partial 03components pass
06:46 svnbot6 r4954, mugwump++ |  r15301@speights:  samv | 2005-06-26 00:03:12 +1200
06:46 svnbot6 r4954, mugwump++ |  Add :depends flag to Test ok(), etc
06:54 arcady hey hey, openfoundry is back
06:54 arcady time to rebuild pugs and see if it still works!
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07:02 Darren_Duncan in case it wasn't noticed, I'm happy to report that openfoundry.org seems to be up now
07:03 arcady it's just been noticed in fact
07:03 * arcady rejoices
07:03 Darren_Duncan I also have a commit to make, preferably before the release, but I won't be able to do it until about 15 hours from now
07:03 Darren_Duncan bed time and all
07:03 Darren_Duncan also, given what svn up brought, its obvious that the Toronto hackathon's stuff hasn't been put on openfoundry yet
07:04 Darren_Duncan the stuff from the last 2 days that is
07:07 Darren_Duncan now, looking at the IRC log ... noticed something journal worthy
07:08 Darren_Duncan Juerd's yelling at a bot, http://colabti.de/irclogger/ircl​ogger_log/perl6?date=2005-06-26 near the top
07:09 Weems has quit IRC (Client Quit)
07:09 Darren_Duncan good quote for Autrijus' journal, to join his other quote collection
07:09 Darren_Duncan anyway, back in 14-15 hours, good night
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07:13 svnbot6 r4955, autrijus++ | * minor source cleanups.
07:14 luqui has joined #perl6
07:14 autrijus greetings.
07:14 luqui !!
07:14 autrijus luqui: a minimal example?
07:15 autrijus or commit and tell me what to run? :)
07:15 luqui class Foo { method bar() { 50 } }  sub baz($x) { say $x.bar }  baz(Foo.new)
07:15 autrijus 'k
07:16 luqui (untested, so it might work ;-)
07:16 autrijus that prints 50
07:16 luqui indeed
07:16 luqui hmm
07:16 luqui so it's deeper
07:16 * luqui is reducing to a real minimal example
07:20 luqui it's a two-level thing
07:20 svnbot6 r4956, autrijus++ | test was full of crap about precedence
07:20 svnbot6 r4957, autrijus++ | clearer failure boundries for hash subscript reduction
07:20 svnbot6 r4958, autrijus++ | &as tests can work in an eval
07:20 svnbot6 r4959, autrijus++ | * mark two tests as todo.
07:20 luqui class Foo { method foo() { say "HI" } }   -> $x { -> $y { $y.foo }.($x) }.(Foo.new)
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07:21 luqui hi kakos
07:22 autrijus luqui: you know... it's exactly the same bug.
07:23 autrijus just put `is rw` in either $x or $y.
07:23 autrijus zero deref etc.
07:23 luqui yep
07:23 luqui i figured as much
07:23 autrijus so the same fix for transparent reference will fix this.
07:23 autrijus why did we convince larry to adopt zeroderef again? ;)
07:24 autrijus (because it's saner and easier to reason about, yes, but it really uncovers all the design glitches that was hiding underneath)
07:24 luqui hehe
07:25 luqui maybe that's why too
07:25 luqui or do you mean language design glitches
07:25 svnbot6 r4960, autrijus++ | * initial cut at P5AST frontend for pugs!
07:25 svnbot6 r4961, autrijus++ | * pairs are always evaluated in lvalue context for binding name purposes.
07:26 autrijus language design of course :)
07:26 autrijus we're now regressing like mad because of this misassumption :)
07:28 luqui don't run the test suite.  it's just depressing, and it will get fixed up once nm and stevan are back on the job
07:28 luqui :-)
07:28 autrijus right. :p
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07:40 mugwump so, in Date::Gregorian, I'd like to be able to present read/write accessors for properties which are actually derived...
07:40 svnbot6 r4962, autrijus++ | * first check in of Perl-Compiler, a PIL representation in Perl 6.
07:40 svnbot6 r4963, andras++ | Introducing WTemplate, the widget based template engine for Perl 6
07:40 svnbot6 r4964, autrijus++ | * remove empty files
07:40 svnbot6 r4965, autrijus++ | Re-added Perl-Compiler
07:40 svnbot6 r4966, autrijus++ | Delete stupidity.
07:40 svnbot6 r4967, autrijus++ | Adapt to lvalue pair fix.
07:40 svnbot6 r4968, autrijus++ | Added PIL tests.
07:40 svnbot6 r4969, autrijus++ | Added Load test.
07:40 svnbot6 r4970, autrijus++ | * `for Int { ... }`, `when Int { ... }` etc are now always
07:40 svnbot6 r4970, autrijus++ |   parsed correctly, instead of grabbing the trailing block as
07:40 svnbot6 r4970, autrijus++ |   the sole argument for the list operator.
07:40 mugwump eg, $date.month will return the month where 1 = January
07:41 mugwump $date.month_0 will return the month where 0 = January
07:41 mugwump internally only $.month exists
07:41 mugwump but I want to be able to go, eg, $date.month_0 = 6 to set the month to July
07:41 luqui and you can assign to both of these?
07:42 mugwump that's what I'd like
07:42 luqui okay... I'm not sure if pugs does that
07:42 * luqui is looking up what it *would* look like
07:42 mugwump I had a look in the synopses .. the only mention of r/w accessors mentions making a sub return an lvalue
07:43 luqui it's in A06
07:44 pasteling "luqui" at 206.47.164.228 pasted "Proxy lvalue" (10 lines, 330B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11352
07:46 mugwump thanks, I'll fix t/oo/attributes/mutators.t
07:46 svnbot6 r4971, autrijus++ | * parse the type literals and variables for the condition
07:46 svnbot6 r4971, autrijus++ |   parts more correctly.
07:46 svnbot6 r4972, autrijus++ | * rename Trans to CodeGen (inspired by luqui)
07:46 svnbot6 r4973, autrijus++ | * finish the renaming
07:46 svnbot6 r4974, autrijus++ | * finish s/trans/codegen/
07:48 luqui when you set attributes in a class, Pugs currently copies, not binds, right?
07:48 luqui (which is the correct behavior)
07:49 mugwump sure, if you used =
07:49 luqui er, when you pass the attributes in as named params to new
08:01 mugwump well, it definitely doesn't use the lvalue accessor :)
08:01 svnbot6 r4975, autrijus++ | Eine Kleine Documentation.
08:01 svnbot6 r4976, autrijus++ | Delete Perl-Compiler in the root.  How'd that get there?
08:01 svnbot6 r4977, autrijus++ | * in-class `does` and `is` now works.
08:01 svnbot6 r4978, autrijus++ | Moved Perl5.pm to Perl5_str.pm
08:01 svnbot6 r4979, autrijus++ | monkey butts are fun to play with
08:01 svnbot6 r4980, autrijus++ | * the `do STMT` form.
08:01 svnbot6 r4981, autrijus++ | * ...implementing the `do STMT` form.
08:01 svnbot6 r4982, autrijus++ | thunky-do form implemented in Perl::Compiler and made stuff better.
08:01 svnbot6 r4983, autrijus++ | NameGenList -- abandoned skeleton
08:01 svnbot6 r4984, autrijus++ | It parses again, baaaaby.
08:01 svnbot6 r4985, autrijus++ | Autrijus's journal transparent reference no verb.
08:07 coral svn is up
08:07 svnbot6 r4986, autrijus++ | * Repair smart match on types and `does` calls from the zero
08:07 svnbot6 r4986, autrijus++ |   dereference regime by explicitly fetching their metaobjects
08:07 svnbot6 r4986, autrijus++ |   and walking the inheritance/mixin tree ourselves.
08:07 svnbot6 r4987, autrijus++ | * parse for `use perl5:DBI`.
08:07 svnbot6 r4987, autrijus++ | * `is 1,2,3` is now always parsed as function call; only the
08:07 svnbot6 r4987, autrijus++ |   `is ClassName;` form is parsed as declaration.
08:07 svnbot6 r4988, autrijus++ | * remove the no longer used author part.
08:07 svnbot6 r4989, autrijus++ | * oops, fix `use`.
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08:11 luqui you mean openfoundry?
08:11 luqui yeah, I think that's pretty clear
08:12 luqui here come all our commits for the weekend
08:12 luqui (or rather, there go)
08:12 * coral reads
08:12 autrijus journal up
08:12 svnbot6 r4990, autrijus++ | * `use perl5:DBI` form now works -- the old `use DBI--perl5` form
08:12 svnbot6 r4990, autrijus++ |   is no longer supported.
08:12 svnbot6 r4991, autrijus++ | Decloudify my type thinking.
08:12 svnbot6 r4992, autrijus++ | * &foo in module Foo now looks up &Foo::foo as well.
08:12 autrijus I'll sleep soonish :)
08:12 autrijus enjoy
08:13 luqui hey autrijus
08:14 luqui where is Object::new defined?
08:14 autrijus like everything else, in src/Pugs/Prim.hs
08:14 autrijus only it's called Any::new
08:14 autrijus because the relationship was not clarified
08:14 luqui no wonder I couldn't find it
08:15 luqui I'm going to (try to) have it carp when it recieves any positionals
08:15 autrijus arg, I should not have pushed --verbatim
08:15 autrijus now it's all my fault.
08:15 luqui heh
08:15 luqui well it is
08:15 luqui we're just your minions
08:16 autrijus luqui: oh, trivial. line 966 has a _
08:16 autrijus replace it with a "positional" variable
08:16 autrijus check that is always VList [] (or VUndef? not trace it a bit)
08:16 autrijus s/not//
08:16 autrijus you can trace anything with
08:17 autrijus trace (show foo) $ do
08:17 autrijus by its one line in the monad block
08:17 autrijus if you want to fail in there, just
08:17 autrijus fail "hey you passed in positional"
08:17 luqui okay
08:17 autrijus so it's like
08:18 autrijus positionals <- fromVal p
08:18 svnbot6 r4994, autrijus++ | * also look at the compile time package.
08:18 svnbot6 r4995, autrijus++ | Seemingly fixed some stuff.
08:18 autrijus unless (null positionals) $ fail "blah"
08:19 autrijus with p being the bound positional slurpy array
08:19 autrijus should work, but untested :)
08:19 luqui I'll try
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08:24 svnbot6 r4996, autrijus++ | Fixed bugs in test program.
08:24 svnbot6 r4997, autrijus++ | * remove temp file
08:24 svnbot6 r4998, autrijus++ | * switch to the `use perl5:Digest::MD5` form.
08:36 mugwump almost r5000!
08:44 luqui has quit IRC ("Leaving")
09:09 mugwump whee!  r5000!  Do I win a prize?  :D
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09:09 svnbot6 r4999, iblech++ | Usual svn properties added to 30+ new files :)
09:09 svnbot6 r5000, mugwump++ | Add documentation for :depends
09:09 svnbot6 r5000, mugwump++ | make Test.pm report unexpected successes
09:09 svnbot6 r5000, mugwump++ | support multiple test runs in the same process
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09:18 svnbot6 r5001, iblech++ | Fixed chomp($str) to not edit $str inplace.
09:18 svnbot6 r5001, iblech++ | * Pugs.Prim -- Fixed the implementation of &chomp.
09:18 svnbot6 r5001, iblech++ | * examples/, ext/, t/, src/perl6/Prelude/PIR.pm, Makefile.PL -- Test fixes.
09:18 svnbot6 r5001, iblech++ | * Added note about chomp's new behaviour to docs/quickref/data.
09:18 svnbot6 r5001, iblech++ | Renamed ext/WTemplate/readme to ext/WTemplate/README (consitency).
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09:32 svnbot6 r5002, iblech++ | * Test.pm -- Unbroke &pass.
09:32 svnbot6 r5002, iblech++ | * util/svnlog2graph.pl -- Minor cosmetic fix.
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10:41 mugwump hmm, should \( %hash<foo> ) auto-vivify %hash<foo> ?
10:42 svnbot6 r5003, iblech++ | unTODOs.
10:42 svnbot6 r5004, mugwump++ | Add documentation for :depends
10:42 svnbot6 r5004, mugwump++ | make Test.pm report unexpected successes
10:42 svnbot6 r5004, mugwump++ | support multiple test runs in the same process
10:42 svnbot6 r5005, mugwump++ | Unwanted hash auto-vivification seems to be related to Param.isLValue; adding `is copy' trait solves problem
10:44 vcv has joined #perl6
10:53 coral .
10:58 mugwump ,
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11:13 svnbot6 r5006, iblech++ | * Added tests for the new relevations:
11:13 svnbot6 r5006, iblech++ |   t/var/my.t, t/oo/syntax-but.t, t/oo/roles/instantiation.t, t/oo/precedence.t
11:13 svnbot6 r5006, iblech++ | * Prelude, Pugs.Prim -- Updated =$obj to mean $obj.shift instead of $obj.next.
11:13 svnbot6 r5006, iblech++ | * Added the usual shebang line to tests lacking it.
11:14 elmex is the ./method() call in the language already?
11:14 elmex would be horrible
11:19 masak a grep for it in the examples/ folder yields only one false positive
11:20 masak examples/pipe_open.p6:my $pugs = (($*OS ~~ any<MSWin32 cygwin msys>) ?? "pugs.exe" :: "./pugs");
11:20 masak but i seem to recall it was once there
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11:38 svnbot6 r5007, mugwump++ | Taking a ref to a hash slot shouldn't auto-vivify - perhaps this needs Proxy object support
11:38 svnbot6 r5007, mugwump++ | Test A06-specified Proxy trait
11:38 svnbot6 r5007, mugwump++ | Fix broken test - probable precedence problem
11:38 svnbot6 r5007, mugwump++ | un-TODO fixed tests, TODO new broken tests, add test for given { when true { } }
11:38 svnbot6 r5007, mugwump++ | removed bad test for op0 'true'
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11:48 Alias_ has joined #perl6
11:48 Alias_ seen autrijus?
11:48 jabbot Alias_: autrijus was seen 3 hours 29 minutes 29 seconds ago
11:48 Alias_ autrijus: poke?
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11:57 Boogie Alias_: I think it's very late / early in America now.
11:57 Alias_ sleep is for the genetically inferior
11:57 Alias_ I expect more from him
11:57 Alias_ :)
11:58 Boogie Yeah, as he is taking his journey, I think he sleeps more than before. :)
12:00 Odin-LAP Sleep is for the non-clinically-depressive. :p
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14:00 nothingmuch Alias_: ping
14:01 * Alias_ blinks
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14:01 Alias_ nothingmuch := autrijus?
14:01 Alias_ oh wait...
14:01 Alias_ ping, not pong
14:01 Alias_ yes, right
14:01 Alias_ nothingmuch: pong
14:02 nothingmuch we're trying to compile perl6 to ppi
14:02 nothingmuch no
14:02 nothingmuch nothingmuc.id ~~ Unique;
14:02 nothingmuch okay
14:02 nothingmuch i'd like to use quasiquoting for this stuff
14:02 Alias_ you are doing, heh, what? :)
14:03 Alias_ You realise of course, that you are insane :)
14:03 Alias_ heh, but continue
14:03 * Alias_ chuckles
14:03 nothingmuch that is, construct a generic node that is somewhat equivelent to what we are generating
14:03 nothingmuch by parsing some perl 5 code
14:03 vcv has joined #perl6
14:03 Alias_ yeah, I get it :)
14:03 nothingmuch okay
14:03 nothingmuch i read some of Tokenizer
14:03 nothingmuch and some node impls
14:04 nothingmuch and I have found no clean way to do this
14:04 Alias_ I'm sure you haven't :)
14:04 Alias_ the problem is that PPI is based on _syntax_, not function
14:04 nothingmuch that's not what I mean
14:04 Alias_ oh, ok
14:04 Alias_ continue
14:05 nothingmuch what we want
14:05 nothingmuch given $node {
14:05 nothingmuch    when  PIL::Number {
14:05 nothingmuch        parse("123");
14:05 nothingmuch err, put that into $x;
14:06 nothingmuch        $x.value($_.value);
14:06 nothingmuch        $x;
14:06 nothingmuch    }
14:06 nothingmuch ....
14:06 nothingmuch ofcourse, this is a stupid example, and we have more complex ones
14:06 nothingmuch which are actually simple
14:07 Alias_ given? when? remember my Perl 6 is non-practical
14:07 nothingmuch this is my perl 6, using ppi--perl56
14:07 nothingmuch don't worry about it, all I want is to parse some perl statements (not full documents)
14:08 Alias_ Perl 5 statements?
14:08 Alias_ I'm sorry, I'm not entirely sure of exactly where you are in the entire parsing scheme of things
14:08 nothingmuch yes
14:09 nothingmuch forget the entire scheme ;-)
14:09 Alias_ aha!
14:09 Alias_ I get it
14:09 nothingmuch my $expr = parse_something_small("10");
14:09 nothingmuch $expr.value; # 10
14:09 nothingmuch $expr.ref; # PPI::Token::Number
14:09 nothingmuch err, not value, content
14:10 Alias_ PPI would still see that as Document(Statement(Token(10)))
14:10 nothingmuch $expr.{content} = $my_other_number;
14:10 nothingmuch right, i know
14:10 nothingmuch which is why i'd like to ask: is there a way to get tokenizing to work only on the statement level?
14:10 Alias_ hrm...
14:10 Alias_ not very easily
14:10 Alias_ because statements still always happen in a context
14:11 nothingmuch assume void
14:11 nothingmuch assume scalar
14:11 nothingmuch assume I know it or will provide it
14:11 Alias_ I mean a syntactic parsing context
14:11 nothingmuch oh, you don't need any
14:11 nothingmuch this is independenant
14:11 nothingmuch perl -e '10'; # full program
14:12 Alias_ right, so Document(Statement(Token(10)))
14:12 Alias_ :)
14:12 nothingmuch it's my job to make sure the snippets make sense
14:12 nothingmuch right
14:12 Alias_ It still exists syntactically
14:12 nothingmuch what about 'perl -e '5; 10; 20;'
14:12 nothingmuch nevermind, i'll deal, i'm not stupid
14:13 Alias_ Document(Statement(Token(5)Token(;))Token(' ')Statment, etc
14:13 Alias_ Have you use PPI::Dumper?
14:13 Alias_ That will dump out a syntax tree for an arbitrary chunk of source
14:13 Alias_ Are you trying to assemble your own tree manually?
14:13 nothingmuch but poking in the source code I still can't figure out some stuff
14:13 nothingmuch interface wise
14:13 Alias_ from scratch?
14:13 nothingmuch $t.{content} = 10;
14:13 nothingmuch that's irrelevant, I know the structure
14:13 nothingmuch what I'm trying to avoid is this:
14:13 nothingmuch and then shove that into a statement
14:13 nothingmuch PPI::Token::Number.new;
14:13 Alias_ ok
14:14 nothingmuch yes
14:14 nothingmuch what I'd like to do is not construct a dom, which i can
14:14 nothingmuch that's tedious, and not very readable
14:14 nothingmuch but everybody knows the string representation of that ;-)
14:14 nothingmuch and reading the tokenizer code (not thoroughly), i don't really know what to do
14:16 Alias_ I don't understand "what I'd like to do is not construct a dom, which i can"
14:16 nothingmuch i don'
14:16 nothingmuch t want to say ".new; .{content} = " and then put nodes in nodes in nodes
14:16 nothingmuch the tokenizer and lexer can do that for me
14:16 nothingmuch that's what they're good for
14:16 Alias_ ok
14:16 nothingmuch i'm good for writing languages that work well for humans
14:16 nothingmuch like perl5
14:17 Alias_ So you can generate chunks of raw perl 5 source, from the Perl 6 AST?
14:17 nothingmuch i'd like to write perl5 snippets
14:17 Alias_ ah, gotcha
14:17 Alias_ ok, and then generate what?
14:17 nothingmuch ah!, but i want to go further
14:17 nothingmuch i could just generate strings, and print that out
14:17 Alias_ ok
14:17 nothingmuch but I don't want to, because the PDOM is easier to transform
14:17 nothingmuch so I want to write snippets
14:17 nothingmuch to get a mini dom out of them
14:17 Alias_ and turn the snippits into..
14:18 Alias_ single statements?
14:18 Alias_ or fragments...
14:18 nothingmuch to transform the snippet DOMs
14:18 nothingmuch so they contian real data, and not just empty stuff
14:18 nothingmuch construct a full document
14:18 nothingmuch and then call .save on it
14:18 Alias_ The Tokenizer produces a stream of tokens
14:18 Alias_ that's all
14:19 nothingmuch lexer
14:19 Alias_ The lexer assembles them into a tree
14:19 nothingmuch yeah, i realized i was calling them both the tokenizer at some point
14:19 Alias_ hrm
14:20 Alias_ So you want to make template tree fragments, and than inject real values
14:20 nothingmuch yep
14:20 Alias_ then
14:20 Alias_ ok
14:20 Alias_ So PPI::Document->new( 'sample source' );
14:20 Alias_ suck out the only statement in it
14:21 nothingmuch fair enough
14:23 Alias_ It would be very very difficult to actually wire yourself into the lexer or tokenizer
14:23 Alias_ esp the tokenizer :)
14:24 Alias_ as long as you consider each snippit to be a legal and discrete syntactic chunk, just making a document for each one is far and away superior
14:24 Alias_ suck out the statements, and then weld them together with newline whitespace tokens
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14:37 pdcawley Arternoon all.
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14:38 broquaint Hey, pdcawley. Nice summary btw.
14:38 pdcawley Thanks.
14:39 pdcawley It's always hard to do summaries during summer 'cos so much is happening at conferences. Especially with the hackathons.
14:39 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
14:39 pdcawley It's like irc, but more so.
14:40 Juerd pdcawley: I'd think it'd be easier, with the hackathons summarized by autrijus
14:40 pdcawley Just reading Autrijus's summary, and it sounds like there's enough in place that I can start writing a debugger.
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14:40 pdcawley At the very least 'trace' should be trivial.
14:41 pdcawley Juerd: There is that.
14:41 pdcawley It's just I feel kind of 'out of the loop'. And I can't afford to just go to the conferences and take part in the hackathons. With the mailing list it's 'all' there.
14:43 pdcawley Hmm... thinking about that 'trace' thing again, not as trivial as I thought because of context propagation...
14:43 pdcawley (At least if I want to catch the return values)
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14:45 pdcawley $_ = some_func() but context(&?CALLER_CONTINUATION)
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15:39 pdcawley_ Reminder needed. How do I get pugs to run with the parrot back end?
15:59 wilx PUGS_EMBED="parrot" iirc
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16:11 Juerd pdcawley: pugs -CPIR, and it requires that it be compiled with parrot embedding, as wilx indicates
16:18 Limbic_Region am I the only Pugs is blowing up building for on Win32?
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16:35 brentdax I suppose the fact that every single test complains about a "strange object" means that Pugs doesn't work on AMD64.
16:41 castaway_ it should if ghc does..
16:42 castaway_ is now known as castaway
16:43 Limbic_Region anyone out there have current Pugs working on Win32?
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17:12 brentdax I think AMD64 GHC is experimental.
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17:28 svnbot6 r5008, iblech++ | Syntax but ($obj but {...}).
17:28 svnbot6 r5008, iblech++ | * t/oo/syntax-but.t -- Fixed test.
17:28 svnbot6 r5008, iblech++ | * Prelude           -- Added Pugs::Internals helper sub.
17:28 svnbot6 r5008, iblech++ | * Pugs.Eval         -- Implemented syntax but in the interpreter core...
17:28 svnbot6 r5008, iblech++ | * Pugs.Compile      -- ...and in the compiler part of Pugs.
17:31 iblech has joined #perl6
17:36 wilx but?
17:36 iblech wilx: my $obj = SomeClass.new but { .property1 = value1; .property2 = value2 }; say $obj.property1; # value1
17:37 wilx Huh, weird keyword :
17:37 wilx :)
17:38 iblech I like it :)
17:45 Juerd Don't we have .new( property1 => value1, ... ) anymore?
17:46 iblech That works too, I think
17:47 iblech TIMTOWTDI++
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17:58 svnbot6 r5009, iblech++ | * t/oo/class/basic.t -- Added test for inlined "is" declaration.
17:58 svnbot6 r5009, iblech++ | * Pugs.Parser -- Hack to make "is eval(...), ..." parse again.
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18:03 svnbot6 r5010, iblech++ | Merged t/unspecced/monkey_but.t's comments into t/oo/syntax-but.t.
18:04 Alias_ seen chromatic?
18:04 jabbot Alias_: chromatic was seen 6 days 18 hours 20 minutes 28 seconds ago
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18:51 Shillo Hello, all!
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19:55 nothingmuch autrijus: if you guys are done with the cabal meeting, I need some PIL help
19:55 nothingmuch i think i've been improvising a bit too far
19:56 nothingmuch and I mostly would like luqui's opinion
19:57 Nelasar51840G has joined #perl6
19:57 Alias_ heh
19:58 Alias_ you can never find a cabal when you need one
19:58 Nelasar51840G hello
19:59 Nelasar51840G Are you a Perl developer, Alias?
20:00 nothingmuch Alias_: i think the perl6 to perl5 code emmitter is working pretty well
20:00 Alias_ really? :)
20:00 nothingmuch yup
20:00 Alias_ Nelasar51840G, in what sense. I'm more of a CPAN developer ...
20:00 nothingmuch i don't know if it's working yet, but we'
20:00 nothingmuch ll see ;-)
20:01 Alias_ Nelasar51840G, I wrote these http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/
20:01 Nelasar51840G I am a Perl 5 programmer, and a CPAN developer myself. I am interested in Perl 6 as well.
20:01 Alias_ But if you mean am I working on Perl 6, then no
20:01 Nelasar51840G Ah yes
20:02 Nelasar51840G In my opinion it would be best to write the Perl 6 compiler in a higher level language such as Haskell then Perl 6 itself, this would allow us Perl 6 developers to be able to improve it more easily
20:03 Nelasar51840G C is not an easy language for many to deal with
20:03 nothingmuch Nelasar51840G: what we've been doing in the hackathon might interest you ;-)
20:03 nothingmuch C is completely out of the question, as far as we're concerned
20:03 nothingmuch Allison Randal supports writing a perl 6 compiler in PIR
20:04 nothingmuch and the pugs oriented people are now working on an intermediate language called PIL
20:04 nothingmuch and writing a perl 6 to PIL compiler in perl 6
20:04 nothingmuch as well as some emitters
20:04 nothingmuch in a sense, the pugs parser thingy, and the compiler backends are interchangable across language boundries
20:05 nothingmuch and what I'm working on is the code emitter, that models PIL in perl 5
20:05 Nelasar51840G That sounds very interesting
20:05 nothingmuch it is =)
20:05 wolverian give me my neural cannula already, sheesh
20:05 Nelasar51840G I am glad to hear it
20:05 nothingmuch you're more than welcome to join in, btw
20:06 nothingmuch ;-)
20:06 nothingmuch uh, where would you like that cannula, wolverian?
20:07 nothingmuch Nelasar51840G: have you hacked some pugs?
20:07 Nelasar51840G I would like to help in some way
20:07 wolverian nothingmuch: I don't really care, as long as it lets me think in perl!
20:07 Nelasar51840G I havent, I dont know Haskell, Ive taken a look at the code however
20:07 * nothingmuch pulls drape around wolverian, and streightens his nurse hat
20:08 nothingmuch Nelasar51840G: you can write tests, and you can look in the ext/ directory of the pugs repo for perl 6 modules
20:08 nothingmuch you can port your CPAN modules to perl 6
20:08 nothingmuch you can try to learn haskell, we have a bunch of tutorial links in the READTHEM file
20:08 Nelasar51840G Porting some CPAN modules ive already done is something I will do
20:09 nothingmuch so what are you waiting for? i can give you commit access, and you can start right now =)_
20:09 Khisanth hmm
20:10 Khisanth nothingmuch: don't you need openfoundry to be up for that?
20:10 nothingmuch it's back up
20:10 Khisanth ah it's back up :)
20:11 G2 has joined #perl6
20:11 nothingmuch Nelasar51840G: come on, you know you want to
20:11 nothingmuch everyone does it
20:11 nothingmuch well, the cool kids, that is
20:12 nothingmuch (none nerdy geeks around here ;-)
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20:13 Nelasar51840G Yes, I can help certianly
20:14 nothingmuch okay, i'll need an email ;-)
20:15 Nelasar51840G [email@hidden.address]
20:16 nothingmuch oh wait, the last line didn't sound like a drug pusher line
20:16 nothingmuch anyway, sent
20:16 nothingmuch welcome aboard
20:17 nothingmuch a safe way to start writing perl 6 is to look over the tests
20:17 nothingmuch you can try to see if failing ones are failing because the tests are buggy
20:17 nothingmuch http://pugs.kwiki.org/?SmokedPugs
20:20 Nelasar51840G Thank you, I appreciate it
20:20 nothingmuch thank you too
20:21 vcv has joined #perl6
20:21 nothingmuch anyway, i think i'm going to go back to the conf hotel
20:22 whiteg is the conf hotel with network?
20:22 nothingmuch i don't know
20:22 nothingmuch i hope so
20:22 whiteg hum..me too
20:23 whiteg thank you
20:23 nothingmuch see you there?
20:24 whiteg no, I am at taiwan
20:26 nothingmuch ah
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20:32 nothingmuch everyone who is going to YAPC and wants keysigning, please mark yourself here: http://wiki.yapctoronto.org​/index.cgi?PGPKeySigningBOF
20:32 nothingmuch geographical diversity is *VERY* good for key signings
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20:52 nothingmuch ow!
20:57 mugwump ßËtå§Ç®îþt... now that's ℒℇ℮Ⓣ
21:00 nothingmuch very leet
21:01 nothingmuch port gaal's l33t to give extra points for unicode symbols?
21:01 lightstep was that latin1?
21:03 mugwump well, the signoff looks like all Latin-1 characters.  I cut and paste mine from the Unicode sliderule, pages 21 and 24 which are full of letterlike symbols
21:04 mugwump sburke++
21:04 pdcawley has joined #perl6
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21:15 stevan autrijus: ping
21:15 * mugwump hijacks stevan's icmp session to say hi
21:15 stevan mugwump: hello
21:15 stevan how is life down under
21:16 mugwump I see in autrijus' journal you've got a metamodel prototype ... is that on cpan?
21:16 stevan nope
21:16 stevan I am actually refactoring a large chunk of it right now
21:16 stevan it is not really CPAN worthy either
21:16 stevan it is really pretty hackish
21:16 stevan mostly meant to be a proof of concept
21:17 mugwump ok.  well, it can always be used by the use Foo--perl5;^Wperl5:Foo; support
21:18 stevan yes, I think autrijus had some (crazy) ideas to do something to that effect
21:18 stevan and also maybe to use it for the PIL -> Perl5 compiler luqui is working on
21:18 stevan with nothingmuch
21:19 Alias_ via PPI (I say they are nuts) :)
21:19 larsen has joined #perl6
21:19 stevan me too :)
21:19 stevan Alias_: I think maybe the PPI idea has been abandoned
21:20 stevan although hard to say, the hackathon has now dispersed
21:20 mugwump I've been porting parts of Perldoc to Perl 6, it's been quite good, really - I've been coming across "missing" language features/implementations all the time :)
21:20 integral PPI's lacking something to parse operator precedence
21:20 Alias_ I hope so... because going via a syntax parser is ... iffy
21:20 stevan mugwump: yes I aswa that
21:20 Alias_ integral: Yes, that was the entire point...
21:20 Alias_ in order to do that, you also need to know which param goes with which sub
21:20 Alias_ which is impossible
21:21 stevan personally I think nothingmuch's FORTH version will be the best approach :P
21:21 * Alias_ shrugs
21:21 integral Alias_: unless you're a perl compiler/interpreter...
21:21 nothingmuch shutup
21:21 Alias_ I understand a fucking think you guys are doing. I don't even know the acronyms :)
21:21 nothingmuch i'll see you guys soon
21:22 stevan nothingmuch: where are you now?
21:24 nothingmuch i'm at my friends' house
21:24 nothingmuch i'll be leaving as soon as I have a sandwich
21:24 nothingmuch and see you at 89
21:24 nothingmuch can't talk much, the kids are playing with my computer
21:25 lightstep has quit IRC ("sleep")
21:25 stevan ok
21:25 stevan seen: autrijus
21:25 stevan seen? autrijus
21:26 mugwump jabbot: seen autrijus ?
21:26 jabbot mugwump: autrijus was seen 13 hours 6 minutes 54 seconds ago
21:26 stevan mugwump: thanks :) lack of sleep is starting to catch up with me
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21:44 mugwump so.  I negotiated my employment contract with my new employer on Thursday.
21:44 mugwump I told him about what happened for YAPC::Taipei
21:45 mugwump I told him that I paid for the flights, took time off, and was happy when I called from Hualien to ask for another week off there and got it granted
21:46 mugwump But when I got back, I was told exactly how far into arrears my leave account balance was
21:46 mugwump ...ie, that I'd not get any more leave until Christmas...
21:47 mugwump And my new employer says, "Alright, how about this...
21:47 mugwump The days you're at the conference, you don't have to take those as leave.
21:47 mugwump The day's you're in transit, you don't have to count those either.
21:47 mugwump s/'// :-}
21:48 mugwump The days that you're working on hackathons, sure we'll pay you for those too.
21:48 mugwump Oh, and we'll pay for your flights, too."
21:49 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:49 pdcawley mugwump: Result!
21:51 mugwump fuckin' aye!
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22:25 pdcawley Friend of mine back in fat times once almost got a (new) employer to pony up for a $1000 sushi bill at LISA...
22:25 pdcawley It was only when he confessed that everyone had paid their share that they realised he was only after a cut of it...
22:28 Nelasar51840G has left
22:28 mugwump those were the days alright.  We're definitely back on the upturn, but that initial high may never come back
22:28 pdcawley God, but the fat times were stupid.
22:29 pdcawley And we knew it.
22:31 mugwump I didn't.
22:31 mugwump This is why I went from earning £48/hr at JP Morgan to £5/hr under the table at "Tony's Hemp Corner" in King's Cross overnight
22:32 pdcawley Yeah.
22:32 pdcawley Um... who are you under that pseudonym?
22:33 mugwump Sam I am
22:34 pdcawley Vilain?
22:35 mugwump That's me.
22:35 pdcawley Ah. Hi.
22:36 mugwump So what are you up to these days Piers?
22:36 pdcawley Unemployed in Gateshead. About to take some teaching assistant work (I hope).
22:37 mugwump Gateshead!  Thass wha' me birth certificate sez, liike.
22:37 pdcawley Why aye!
22:38 pdcawley Who you working for now?
22:38 mugwump data mining outfit ... www.bnz.marketview.co.nz
22:39 pdcawley in nz?
22:39 mugwump yep.  I'm back in Wellington
22:39 pdcawley Coo. enjoying it?
22:39 mugwump Refer previous mention of "new employer" ;)
22:39 pdcawley NZ's one of those places that's on my list of 'places to go' and was there before I saw LOTR. Point.
22:40 pdcawley Dad was over there earlier in the year with a bunch of vintage car nuts.
22:42 mugwump "vintage cars" here?  I thought in NZ a vintage car meant a Kingswood or a mini
22:42 pdcawley The shipped their Frazer-Nashes over.
22:44 * mugwump solves his lack of vintage car knowledge with google
22:44 pdcawley Heh.
22:45 pdcawley Vintage car: pre 1929 sportscar.
22:45 mugwump actually I've been using Wikipedia for general searches like that increasingly recently.  There's an entry for Frazer Nash
22:46 mugwump it's like a Hitch Hiker's Guide
22:46 pdcawley Hmm... I shall point dad at that. Being a trivia nut he can probably help correct it :)
22:47 mugwump yes!  Wikipedia is Foundation!
22:52 * mugwump notes that Secondary teachers and University Lecturers are listed on the "Long Term Skill Shortage List" at http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stre​am/work/worktemporarily/whatopportunities/
22:55 pdcawley Yeah. But my wife's not really up for the move.
22:55 pdcawley What with the grandson living 300 yards away.
22:56 pdcawley And the being over 50. And the diabetes and asthma...
23:00 mugwump And I guess the pressure to make "The Great Escape" is much less outside of the Greater London fallout area ;)
23:02 cognominal_ has joined #perl6
23:08 pdcawley cept there's work for programmers in London. Not found any here.
23:08 larsen has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:13 cognominal_ has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
23:15 mugwump still, teaching can't be all that bad.  Low wages, but huge karma payout if you can really inspire people.
23:17 cognominal has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:17 pdcawley Got to stick to it first. Hence the Teaching Assistant work -- I need more classroom time before I really start to teach.
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23:47 cognominal what PDD/MAD_SKILLS refers too in autrijus journal?
23:48 Alias_ Layy Wall's conversion of the Perl 5 parser to make it generate Perl 6 code, with comments and such intact
23:48 Alias_ Larry
23:49 cognominal The Perl5 project is turning is some sort of global dynamic Rosetta Stone
23:50 cognominal s/5/6/
23:52 SamB has joined #perl6
23:56 Alias_ That was kind of the point...
23:56 Alias_ one VM to rule them all...
23:56 Alias_ Perl/Python/PHP/Ruby all sharing each other's libraries, etc etc
23:56 Alias_ Haskell, in light of their contributions, may play too :)
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