Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-07-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:01 Juerd Still, do you think it hasin any way to do with Perl?
00:01 Juerd Or would it be coincidental?
00:02 wolverian I _like_ to think that Perl is a language that suits people who have unconventional tendencies
00:02 wolverian I'm not at all sure if it's true :)
00:03 wolverian (well, actually, I am. but me being true doesn't make it any more true, if you get what I mean. this is what you get for being relativist.)
00:03 wolverian er. s,me being true,me being sure,
00:03 wolverian I need to drink less mountain dew.
00:03 Juerd hehe
00:04 Juerd A year or so ago, my parents found my website and read it. I didn't especially mean to avoid using my real name there, but I did not use it anywhere.
00:05 Forth has joined #perl6
00:05 Juerd They asked me "Do you want us to call you Juerd?"
00:05 Juerd I was very surprised "No, let's not go that far"
00:05 Juerd Though sometimes I wonder why not.
00:05 wolverian mm.
00:05 wolverian what is your real real name?
00:06 Juerd Jorrit J. Waalboer
00:06 Juerd The J. stands for Jelle
00:07 wolverian dutch names are nice. :)
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00:11 Juerd They're not Dutch
00:11 Juerd They're Frisian
00:11 Juerd So is Juerd
00:11 wolverian oh, I'm sorry.
00:11 Juerd I'm not Frisian though
00:11 Juerd Neither are my parents
00:11 saorge_ has joined #perl6
00:11 wolverian ah. educated myself a bit over at wikipedia
00:14 Juerd Good night
00:15 wolverian good night.
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00:17 kolibrie seen nothingmuch
00:17 jabbot kolibrie: nothingmuch was seen 2 hours 39 minutes 56 seconds ago
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00:46 wolverian I think I fell in love with ruby. (again)
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01:33 svnbot6 r5131, Stevan++ | Perl6-MetaModel : Airport hacking; plane hacking; then some bus-back-to-home hacking; .... hmmm I think I need to install SVK tomorrow. Oh yeah, and I cleaned out the ::Class junk, changed the interface a bit to conform to the real Perl6 meta model (per AS12) added a test and started down the path to MetaRoles :)
01:34 putter wolverian: any interest in working on a p6 implementation of ruby core?
01:34 mugwump stevan: still in transit?
01:36 wolverian putter: hmm. maybe. I don't have much tuits though.
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03:03 nothingmuch perl: "Easy things are easy, hard things are possible"
03:03 nothingmuch haskell "
03:03 nothingmuch haskell: "Hard things are easy, the impossible just happens"
03:03 nothingmuch -- autrijus
03:04 nothingmuch autrijus corrects: "hard things are easy, impossible things just happen"
03:04 nothingmuch autrijus++
03:05 nothingmuch i think i like the paraphrase "hard things are easy, the impossible just happenned" the most, since it's actually quoting, not paraphrasing GHC
03:08 wolverian I think that in perl, the easy things are more convenient than in haskell, but I might be biased.
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03:09 putter wolverian: k.  my current thought is once namespaces work a bit more, to do a dump of the core with {...} bodies, which can be incrementally fleshed out.  tests, and core .rb files, can hopefully be, at least partially, automatically transliterated.
03:10 wolverian putter: hm. I'm a bit hesitant about using perl6, yet, actually. I hate running into pugs's limitations.
03:11 autrijus wolverian: sure, in haskell the easy things are incovenient ;)
03:11 wolverian autrijus: heh. :)
03:11 autrijus it's all about conservation of complexity
03:12 nothingmuch since haskell defines less
03:12 nothingmuch but that less is more reusable, and intercombinable
03:12 nothingmuch is that a word?
03:12 wolverian isn't combinable enough? :)
03:12 nothingmuch the hard things are easy, because there are less details to take care of
03:12 nothingmuch combinable with itself
03:12 nothingmuch there are less special cases in the language def
03:12 nothingmuch s/less/fewer/
03:12 wolverian do you mean the syntax or semantics?
03:13 nothingmuch semantics
03:13 nothingmuch syntax is nothing
03:13 wolverian right.
03:13 wolverian what do you mean with special cases, then?
03:13 nothingmuch autrijus has a wifi antenna on his head, so he does it need syntax
03:13 wolverian I think I have an idea what you mean, but it's hazy
03:13 nothingmuch every operator in haskell is a first class function
03:13 nothingmuch autocurrying is a generic approach that gives you both emulation of multiple params
03:13 svnbot6 r5132, chromatic++ |  r5198@windwheel:  chromatic | 2005-06-30 11:43:55 -0700
03:13 svnbot6 r5132, chromatic++ |  Allow a plan to run zero tests.
03:13 svnbot6 r5133, chromatic++ |  r5199@windwheel:  chromatic | 2005-06-30 11:46:41 -0700
03:13 svnbot6 r5133, chromatic++ |  Fix name collision between plan() method and $.plan attribute.
03:13 svnbot6 r5133, chromatic++ |  Manually pass args to super new() as slurpy params don't yet work.
03:13 svnbot6 r5133, chromatic++ |  Pass number of results to testplan footer() in DESTROY().
03:13 svnbot6 r5134, chromatic++ |  r5200@windwheel:  chromatic | 2005-06-30 11:49:41 -0700
03:14 svnbot6 r5134, chromatic++ |  Launch an external test to test DESTROY().
03:14 svnbot6 r5134, chromatic++ |  Test plan setting.
03:14 nothingmuch and consistency with the fact that everything is 1 param
03:14 wolverian chromatic steals karma!!!
03:14 nothingmuch wolverian: you can do that too.
03:14 wolverian yes, I know :)
03:14 nothingmuch wolverian: anyway, my point is this: haskell is very simple
03:14 wolverian forgive me, I've been up all night, waiting for the morning to come so I can go to the doctor.
03:14 nothingmuch so simple that complex structures (like monads) are optimizable.
03:15 nothingmuch and that many things are safe
03:15 autrijus zzz &
03:15 nothingmuch so you can do crazier combinations
03:15 nothingmuch and things are sane
03:15 nothingmuch he's lying
03:15 wolverian nothingmuch: but it moves the complexity elsewhere.
03:15 nothingmuch wolverian: but complexity scales down slightly by that transformation
03:15 nothingmuch the curve of code complexity vs. problem complexity has a lower ratio
03:16 putter 'night autrijus.
03:18 obra evening lambdacamels
03:18 nothingmuch hola obra
03:18 obra how's canadia, nothingmuch
03:18 obra ?
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03:19 nothingmuch it's nice
03:19 putter wolverian: re limitations, agreed.  a downside is drawing ruby community attention while a) oo pugs is still a work in progress, and b) grammars aren't up to doing ruby, so its "ruby-like p6", rather than a "p6 backend for ruby".
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03:20 nothingmuch obra: are you already home
03:21 nothingmuch at home?
03:21 wolverian putter: yes. that's why I'm hesitant. I'm thinking about it.
03:21 putter upside is much of the grunge work of porting core could be done now, for some value of now, leaving, and clarifying, where things arent ready yet.
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03:23 putter I'm tempted to just keep ripper-based transliteration, a ruby grammar, and a p6 core, "simmering" but not checked in, until oo matures enough that all 4 are "almost within reach".  Ie, punt for now.
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03:28 putter wolverian: doctor?
03:28 * putter hopes it's nothing too serious...
03:29 obra nothingmuch: yes. drove 10 hours today
03:29 wolverian putter: just a test for a suspected slight thyroid gland thingie.
03:30 wolverian (sorry if that was too much information :)
03:36 QtPlatypus Is there anyway of doing :d on a file?
03:38 * wolverian stares at QtPlatypus
03:38 wolverian lick your nose on a file?
03:39 QtPlatypus No dump the parse tree for this file (in pugs0
03:39 QtPlatypus )
03:39 wolverian oh.
03:39 wolverian I dunno.
03:41 putter ah, np, hope it goes well. (standard one-liner advice #001: have someone along to serve as a patient (you) advocate.  there is so much potential for... cruft/complications/etc, when there isnt a "project manager" along)
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03:47 Daniel_Nee Hi, Autrijus: If you hear me, could you please let me know where are you and when will you be back, thanks.
03:49 putter 'night &
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04:09 nothingmuch Daniel_Nee: autrijus says he will be back in 72 hours
04:09 nothingmuch he is still in toromnto
04:10 * nothingmuch just wrote UNIVERSAL::isa
04:10 nothingmuch (a module, not a function)
04:10 nothingmuch =head1 NAME
04:10 nothingmuch UNIVERSAL::isa - Hack around stupid module authors using UNIVERRSAL::isa as a
04:10 nothingmuch function when they shouldn't.
04:11 wolverian haha.
04:11 wolverian what does it do?
04:12 nothingmuch on the cpan shortly
04:12 nothingmuch short answer:.
04:12 nothingmuch replaces UNIVERSAL::isa with a version that does a check on the first argument
04:12 nothingmuch if it is an object, and the object overrides 'isa', then a call to 'isa' as a method on the object is made
04:12 nothingmuch in all other scenarios the original 'UNIVERSAL::isa' is goto'd
04:13 sili_ interesting.
04:13 wolverian nice.
04:13 nothingmuch i hope chromatic will make Test::MockObject use it
04:14 wolverian can you make it output a warning like 'read perldoc -f eval' now and then randomly?
04:14 nothingmuch eval?
04:14 nothingmuch oh, like for eval { } ...?
04:14 wolverian yeah.
04:14 nothingmuch ah
04:14 nothingmuch well, they can just 'use UNIVERSAL::isa qw/isa/'
04:14 nothingmuch and then use it as a function
04:14 nothingmuch it's still safe
04:15 wolverian indirect object notation overrices?
04:15 wolverian er. RIDES.
04:15 nothingmuch btw, for fun regarding 'eval {}', read the source of pure perl Scalar::Util::bless and overload::StrVal
04:15 nothingmuch uh, i doubt it
04:16 nothingmuch if there is a symbol in the current package, it should be a function call
04:16 nothingmuch (i think)
04:16 nothingmuch it basically does a bless check for you
04:16 wolverian right.
04:16 nothingmuch so the function form is OK
04:17 wolverian I just read it as 'use UNIVERSAL qw/isa/' and was confused
04:17 wolverian sorry. :)
04:17 nothingmuch ah
04:17 nothingmuch that would also work
04:17 nothingmuch as long as UNIVERSAL::isa (the module) was 'use'd beforehand
04:17 wolverian why?
04:34 nothingmuch uh, sorry
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04:34 nothingmuch i lost myself
04:34 nothingmuch because UNIVERSAL::isa is overridden
04:35 nothingmuch and the original is only stored in a lexical afterwords
04:35 nothingmuch it is no longer available by name.
04:35 nothingmuch i'm off to bed
04:35 nothingmuch read the code, it is up on the cpan
04:35 nothingmuch or actually 'it will be soon'
04:35 * coke__ smacks Damian.
04:38 nothingmuch https://pause.perl.org/pub/PAUSE/authors/​id/N/NU/NUFFIN/UNIVERSAL-isa-0.01.tar.gz
04:38 nothingmuch coke__: huh?
04:40 coke__ contextual::return
04:42 nothingmuch i so don't want to know what that means at this hour
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05:14 svnbot6 r5135, geoffb++ | Added ext/DateTime and lib/Code-Perl to hack.pod
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05:41 CLoCkWeRX o/t question, re chip [sorry guys, you're probably getting it alot]... how big of an effect does this trouble in his life have upon the release cycle of perl 6?
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05:55 gaal_ good morning
05:57 geoffb . . . and good night
05:57 * geoffb passes off the "awake" baton to gaal_
05:57 * gaal_ will accept it in a few minutes, after making coffee :)
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06:20 * gaal_ wonders if pugscc is something autrijus can fix while asleep...
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06:33 gaal_ who are all the people on ingy's slides? I recognize some...
06:36 wolverian I'm a recluse, I wouldn't know. :/
06:39 gaal_ in http://yapc.kwiki.org/data-​driven-testing/slide19.html - when does the http hit actually happen? when you say $block->url, or when you perform the like?
06:39 gaal_ (does like now accept a closure to be run?)
06:41 gaal_ hahahahahaa! the slides leading up to 26 are quite amusing
06:41 gaal_ ingy++
06:42 wolverian yes.
06:42 wolverian :)
06:43 wolverian where does he get the like() sub from!!!
06:43 gaal_ his Test::Base, of course
06:44 wolverian the CPAN version only has run_like()
06:44 wolverian (or I'm blind)
06:44 gaal_ point
06:45 gaal_ hhhmmm, no, http://search.cpan.org/src/INGY/​Test-Base-0.43/lib/Test/Base.pm and look at test_more_exports
06:45 wolverian I'd say that needs documentation!
06:45 wolverian s,!,, # too much caffeine
06:45 gaal_ looks like he's pulling the haskell reexport trick :)
06:47 wolverian what is that? I'm completely missing the point of the BEGIN
06:47 gaal_ he imports things on the use line of Test::More
06:47 gaal_ so he needs @test_more_exports populated
06:48 gaal_ at *compile* time
06:48 gaal_ i didn't know you can pass an arrayref to T:M's import though!
06:49 wolverian oh, he's using the array there. yeah.
06:50 gaal_ one place lexical scope results in awkward usage is when you want to preload data in a BEGIN block. i've never liked how that forces you to declare the var outside the block.
06:50 gaal_ i wonder if p6 will have something like our $OUTER::var :-)
06:51 wolverian heh.
06:51 gaal_ not that that's much prettier!
06:51 wolverian well, the fact that it works at all is somewhat mind-boggling.
06:51 wolverian "look, I'm using this variable now, but I promise I'll declare it later!"
06:51 gaal_ oh? no, the declaration happened before
06:51 gaal_ look one line above the BEGIN block
06:52 gaal_ remember my is compile time too
06:52 wolverian oh, I thought BEGIN is run before that happens
06:52 wolverian yeah. okay. :)
06:52 wolverian thanks for unconfusing me.
06:52 gaal_ if that like were to be placed after the BEGIN, you'd get a compilation error
06:52 gaal_ actually, that's part of what makes-perfect-sense-but-gives-awkward-usage:
06:53 gaal_ you can't just put your BEGIN block on the top of your code for everyone to see, you're forced to declare a bunch of stuff before it
06:54 wolverian that's the same as how you have to declare your subs before using them if you don't like to sprinkle your code with useless parentheses
06:54 wolverian (admittedly you don't have to _define_ them beforehand, but still..)
06:55 gaal_ in p5 i got to always using parens on sub calls because of that
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06:56 wolverian will p6 fix it? :)
06:56 gaal_ it's a little early to write a perl 6 style guide though :)
06:56 gaal_ well, there are no barewords in p6...
06:56 wolverian exactly my thoughts
07:00 gaal_ oooof, how to Show a TVar in a reversible manner?
07:02 * wolverian hides under his admin desk and pretends not to hear the scary person
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07:03 * gaal_ pulls out the Tesla coil
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09:37 * dudley is having a baby
09:37 dudley Or, more accurately, my wife is ; )
09:45 meppl youre a harry potter character? :-P
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11:01 QtPlatypus dudley: Congratulations.
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11:02 dudley QtPlatypus: Thanks!
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12:30 pjcj dudley: right now, or in six to seven months?
12:30 pjcj and congratulations again
12:31 dudley Right now. Actually, we're off to the midwife right now... I'll probably be back in a bit, though.
12:31 pjcj wow!
12:31 pjcj I seem to remember cwest giving realtime commentary on irc during the the event
12:32 pjcj though I'm not sure how good an idea that is
12:32 dudley I don't think my wife would appreciate it... I'll see, though ; )
12:33 pjcj good luck!
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15:06 nothingmuch good morning
15:06 nothingmuch too many dreams in one night
15:09 kolibrie dreams of good things?
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15:24 Limbic_Region is this news to anyone besides me? http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=471746
15:25 sili can't say i expected more
15:29 autrijus lexer and parser needs to be one-pass; that's one of the main points in my hw2005 paper
15:30 autrijus I don't think that's a problem really
15:30 autrijus but if damian promised otherwise, it's (again) wishful thinking
15:31 autrijus rehi, btw :)
15:32 kolibrie the compiler and interpreter are still quite separate, correct?
15:34 stevan hey kolibrie
15:34 stevan nothingmuch++ # for UNIVERSAL::isa
15:34 * _Coke_ answers somethign at the monastary.
15:34 Limbic_Region autrijus - what continent are you on today?
15:35 kolibrie hey stevan
15:40 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
15:45 autrijus Limbic_Region: still in toronto; 18hrs till going to airport
15:48 _Coke_ autrijus: gah. is it still 100 degrees in the shade?
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15:49 nothingmuch morning
15:49 autrijus _Coke_: I don't know, I'm always in a room
15:52 meppl good morning nothinmuch
15:54 stevan I dont know about you guys, but sleep deprivation is hitting me like a brick
15:55 stevan I am only just now realizing how little sleep I actually got over those 8+ days
15:55 autrijus stevan: //hand
15:55 kolibrie I did okay yesterday, but I'm having trouble today
15:55 autrijus stevan: 21 days for me
15:55 * autrijus is having trouble waking up
15:55 stevan autrijus: you are young though, you will bounce back :)
15:55 autrijus very true :)
15:56 kolibrie stevan: hopefully we'll bounce back, too...
15:56 stevan kolibrie: yes, but not without permanent damage, we are too old :P
15:57 stevan autrijus: I realized for the first time the true value of SVK, when I wanted to commit, but was in the airport/plane/bus
15:57 autrijus :)
15:57 * stevan is downloading it now
15:57 autrijus :D
15:57 autrijus stevan++
15:57 autrijus shower &
15:58 * clkao giggles at stevan
15:59 _Coke_ autrijus: doh. I forgot about eval::tcl
16:00 pjcj r5555, autrijus++ | some major submodule hacked whilst eating, sleeping and showering
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16:01 stevan clkao: http://svk.elixus.org/ seems like it is down?
16:01 stevan can I install from CPAN?
16:02 autrijus sure can
16:02 stevan cool, I will do that then :)
16:02 nothingmuch hola stevan
16:02 stevan guten tag nadda mucho
16:03 autrijus stevan: http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/Do​wnload/Attachment/33814/23873/SVK-1.00-2.dmg
16:03 nothingmuch stevan: try again
16:03 nothingmuch it wasn't working for me a few times, and then it started
16:03 autrijus stevan: that's .dmg, use it :)
16:03 stevan autrijus++ # making my life much easier :)
16:03 stevan nadda mucho
16:03 stevan that work?
16:04 nothingmuch it worked for me
16:04 pdcawley Or possibly more complex. After all, what would you be doing if Pugs didn't exist?
16:04 stevan pdcawley: Pugs makes life interesting
16:04 stevan complexity ~~ fun
16:05 _Coke_ perlbot pmichaud?
16:06 nothingmuch breakfast time
16:09 kolibrie um, lunch time?
16:09 stevan kolibrie: he is still in canada, eh
16:10 kolibrie stevan: believe so, till tomorrow
16:10 kolibrie stevan:  oops, forgot the 'eh'
16:11 stevan :)
16:11 pdcawley Not denying complexity ~~ fun, but I am questioning complexity ~~ easier
16:12 slr has quit IRC ("later")
16:14 stevan pdcawley: I think pugs has definitely made my life more complex, but it also gives me a great amount of satisfaction, which makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, which makes life more bearable, which means that I can trudge through $work much easier (or at least with much less psychic wear-and-tear)
16:14 stevan so in a very round about way ....
16:14 stevan but in this particular case, I was refering to the link to the SVK dmg file :)
16:15 * kolibrie wonders if he must re-checkout before switching to svk
16:15 pupilzeng has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:15 stevan pdcawley: BTW - the metamodel is now in fairly decent shape, if you have the time, comments appreciated
16:16 stevan kolibrie: IIRC you are not re-checking out, but mirroring the entire repo
16:16 pupilzeng has joined #perl6
16:16 kolibrie so rm -rf pugs/; svk ...
16:16 autrijus svk co http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/
16:16 integral you don't have to mirror the whole lot, it takes ages.  you want svk sync's --skipto option
16:16 autrijus hit enter ~inf times
16:17 autrijus if you don't want to wait, answer 'h' instead of 'a'
16:17 autrijus in the "how many revs to mirror" question
16:17 autrijus that's all
16:17 autrijus (but by ansering 'h' you los e past history'
16:18 kolibrie so 'a' gets all revisions, 'h' gets most recent only?
16:18 autrijus yup
16:19 kolibrie is hitting enter ~inf avoidable?
16:20 autrijus er, the ~inf is just like 3
16:20 autrijus I think
16:20 autrijus so should be okay :)
16:20 autrijus it's a small amount as infinity goes
16:21 kolibrie ok, that sounds better
16:22 broquaint has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
16:26 * kolibrie watches svk pull down history, revision by revision
16:27 cwest has joined #perl6
16:33 autrijus hi cwest!
16:33 autrijus glad to see you here :)
16:34 ramzi has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
16:36 dmo has joined #perl6
16:38 * Limbic_Region pings cwest and wonders when/if he is going to do anything about the abomination that is Tie::SortHash
16:38 * Limbic_Region meant that in the most friendly way possible
16:40 pasteling "chromatic" at 63.105.17.30 pasted "Trace Showing Destructors Not Being Applied to All Objects (lambda-ers please read)" (76 lines, 2.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/11477
16:42 autrijus hm odd.
16:47 cwest heya everyone
16:47 dmo has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
16:49 * autrijus is still lunching
16:50 * cwest too
16:50 autrijus chromatic nopastes but is not on the channel himself
16:50 autrijus oh well. it looks like some objects are still reachable from the root set
16:50 autrijus I think I know why
16:51 larsen has quit IRC ("brb")
16:51 Limbic_Region autrijus - perhaps chromatic is watching the channel log and nopasted - expecting to get the response later
16:52 autrijus nod
16:52 larsen has joined #perl6
16:52 ingy hi autrijus
16:52 autrijus yo ingy
16:53 autrijus you made it safely back?
16:53 ingy yes, and slept
16:53 autrijus cool. I think I'll nap again
16:53 autrijus sleep deprivation is hitting me like a torrent of bricks
16:54 * nothingmuch waves
16:55 stevan hey ingy
16:55 stevan $work sucks :P
16:55 Limbic_Region too bad there wasn't a way to remove your brain from your body when you slept so as to not consume energy solving problems when it is supposed to be resting
16:57 stevan the net connection to our servers are down
16:57 stevan now i really really really want/need SVK
16:59 kolibrie distributed is very handy in that situation
16:59 stevan yes
16:59 stevan and a Supreme court justice is resigning
16:59 * stevan thinks maybe he should have stayed in Canada
17:02 pdcawley stevan: Where's the meta stuff? Going to download and print it for persual in a more comfy chair...
17:06 * _Coke_ wonders if anyone in perldom has met ingy when he was not operating under the influence or sleep deprivation.
17:07 Nattfodd has quit IRC ("Leaving")
17:08 nothingmuch i think ingy has but one state
17:08 stevan pdcawley: lib/Perl6-MetaModel
17:08 nothingmuch i'll call it "dude".
17:08 pupilzeng has quit IRC ("Bye")
17:10 _Coke_ people irc as root? huh.
17:10 pdcawley ç
17:11 pdcawley Kewl.
17:11 pasteling has quit IRC (Client Quit)
17:14 kungfuftr castaway: *poke*
17:15 ingy hi nothingmuch
17:15 ingy hi stevan
17:18 nothingmuch hi ingy
17:18 dmo has joined #perl6
17:19 * ingy gives nothingmuch a Kiss
17:19 _Coke_ ingy: I was in the first row at your back to back talks, and was therefore contractually prohibited from making snarky comments. Good talks.
17:20 ingy thanks!
17:20 nothingmuch _Coke_: do you have a crush on ingy? I knew all those kisses were dangerous
17:20 _Coke_ I am now trying to convince leo to use Test::Base on parrot. he appears to be interested. =-)
17:20 _Coke_ nothingmuch: no, I will merely crush ingy.
17:21 ingy _Coke_++
17:21 * stevan things nothingmuch has a crush on ingy
17:21 nothingmuch ofcourse i do
17:21 ingy :)
17:21 * nothingmuch is dissatisfied with the small amount of girlfriends collected on his tour of Canada
17:21 nothingmuch .
17:22 stevan nothingmuch: there is still time
17:22 nothingmuch i think ingy will serve as a quality addition
17:22 stevan I gave you $$ for the hooker
17:22 nothingmuch no there isn't
17:22 nothingmuch autrijus refuses to go to where the sun shines
17:22 _Coke_ ingy needs to shower more often. or sleep more. or write better slides.
17:22 stevan _Coke_: if he showered then he would not have any time to make his slides, and therefore not sleep
17:22 stevan it is all tightly coupled
17:23 stevan nothingmuch: where did you install SVK from?
17:24 nothingmuch same link as you
17:24 stevan hmmm, it is complaining about my SVN not being compiled with perl bindings
17:24 nothingmuch in fact I was about to point you to it, but autrijus was faster
17:24 nothingmuch uh, that's odd
17:24 nothingmuch i think it ships with svn
17:25 nothingmuch oh wait, no
17:25 nothingmuch OSX now ships with svn (woohoo!)
17:25 stevan hmmm, maybe i should upgrade to tiger
17:25 nothingmuch maybe
17:25 nothingmuch it's been nice
17:25 nothingmuch but you can also just install svn from the binary pkg
17:25 gugod osx ships with svn ?
17:25 stevan the $work servers are down, its not like I can do anything today anyway :)
17:26 nothingmuch gugod: i didn't install svn, but it's there, so i thought it came in the svk dmg
17:26 nothingmuch but appearantly it didn't
17:26 gugod yes, svk dmg comes with svn
17:26 nothingmuch which svn is /usr/bin
17:26 nothingmuch oh, svk is also there
17:26 gugod isn't that a symlink to /usr/local/svk-1.00/bin/svn ?
17:26 _Coke_ svn did not ship with tiger.
17:26 nothingmuch yes, it is...
17:26 stevan ahhhh, I see now
17:26 * _Coke_ had to install it for tiger, just like he did for panther.
17:26 nothingmuch confusion
17:27 nothingmuch okay, svn does not ship for tiger
17:27 stevan I have an svn in my /sw/bin
17:27 nothingmuch it really *was* svk
17:27 _Coke_ there is a precompiled package, however, which is just fine.
17:27 _Coke_ (an apple style package, no fink)
17:27 nothingmuch _Coke_: the confusion is because i didn't install svn but had it
17:28 nothingmuch and I thought that svk provided it, and then thought it didn't provide it, and then realized it did provide it after all
17:28 gugod the svk dmg has everything it needs to run svk
17:28 stevan hmmm, now it says "Can't locate SVN/Core.pm in @INC"
17:28 nothingmuch plug: http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?UNIVERSAL::isa
17:29 * stevan grumbles something about OSS being difficult to install :P
17:29 pasteling has joined #perl6
17:29 nothingmuch stevan: uh, is your perl also from /sw?
17:29 stevan nope
17:29 nothingmuch hm
17:29 stevan nothingmuch: I tried to CPAN rate UNIVERSAL::isa, but it broke CPAN ratings
17:29 nothingmuch OSS in this case (svk) was very very easy to install
17:29 stevan only on 17 in powerbooks I guess :P
17:30 nothingmuch stevan: prepend /usr/bin and /usr/local/svk-1.00-2/bin/ to your PATH
17:30 nothingmuch wow, irssix has tab completion of paths
17:30 nothingmuch that rocks
17:31 * kolibrie ran apt-get install svk
17:31 clkao suddenly #perl6 became #svk-install
17:31 kolibrie of course, it also then downloaded 16MB of other stuff to upgrade
17:31 nothingmuch clkao: you fix it then =)
17:31 PerlJam clkao: so ... how long before the perl6 version of svk?  ;-)
17:32 integral nothing uses perl5:SVK yet?
17:32 clkao it works
17:32 clkao and that's why i told autrijus and helped him with perl5 support in pugs
17:33 nnunley has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:36 stevan hmmm, SVN::Core is not in /usr/local/svk-1.00/perl/ either
17:37 stevan oh wait
17:37 stevan nevermind I found it
17:38 Darren_Duncan has joined #perl6
17:46 nothingmuch initial Test::TAP::Model::Consolidated is in the darcs repo
17:52 stevan what is that?
17:52 stevan oh the diff-ed stuff
17:52 nothingmuch yup
17:52 nothingmuch on the model side
17:52 nothingmuch i'm hacking diff you in first
17:52 nothingmuch summary view later
17:52 nothingmuch want to start summary?
17:53 * stevan hides behind a terminal window so nothingmuch cant see him
17:54 nothingmuch they are transparent on your machine ;-)
17:54 stevan nothingmuch: we shall see, all depends on if the $work servers return
17:54 * pdcawley asks his weekly 'does &?CALLER_CONTINUATION work yet?' question.
17:54 * stevan quickly jumps behind an opaque Safari window
17:55 nothingmuch pdcawley: i'll prod autrijus when he wakes up, he's napping
17:55 pdcawley wilco.
17:56 pdcawley stevan: You have a recommended starting point for grokking Perl6-MetaModel?
17:56 nothingmuch pdcawley: look in P5::PIL::Run::Container::Foo
17:56 stevan pdcawley: lib/Perl6/MetaClass.pm might be a good spot
17:56 nothingmuch where Foo is anything
17:56 nothingmuch those are smple implementations
17:56 stevan pdcawley: and the test suite
17:57 stevan no docs, sorry :)
17:57 nothingmuch but not meta ish in any way
17:57 pdcawley Ah... don't start with the Perl5 version?
17:57 nothingmuch Perl6-MetaModel *is* in perl5
17:57 nothingmuch it's a perl5 implementation of what metamodels in perl 6 should be like
17:57 pdcawley Ah... sorry, was rooting my subdirectories in the wrong places...
17:58 pdcawley was at pugs/ mentally, not pugs/lib/Perl6-MetaModel
17:58 pdcawley forgive me.
17:58 nothingmuch never
17:58 nothingmuch you have insulted my honor
17:58 stevan what honor?
17:59 nothingmuch err, dignity?
17:59 nothingmuch no wait, all out of that too
17:59 stevan I think you lost that the first time you let ingy kiss you
17:59 nothingmuch it was well worth it
17:59 nothingmuch the smooth texture, melting in my mouth
17:59 pdcawley Ingy kissed you?
17:59 pdcawley <flounce>!
17:59 ingy i didn't kiss anybody
17:59 nothingmuch nono, he just gave me a kiss
18:00 ingy right!
18:00 pdcawley And, fact fans, the difference is?
18:01 stevan well, before we answer this, is this going in the summary?
18:01 nothingmuch http://www.conway.com/ssin​sider/images/pw030616c.jpg
18:01 pdcawley Probably not, we're on IRC.
18:02 Limbic_Region pdcawley - you can still link to the IRC conversation in the logs though ;-)
18:04 _Coke_ http://www.camelshumpalpaca​farm.com/photos/smooch.JPG
18:04 _Coke_ hey, is that allison?
18:05 nothingmuch yup.... looks exactly like her
18:05 * nothingmuch rolls eyes
18:05 qmole lol
18:05 _Coke_ ok, you name the famous perl chick that it looks most like. =-)
18:05 nothingmuch the hair color, the shape of her face, it's all the same
18:05 _Coke_ I mean, aside from ingy of course.
18:05 nothingmuch uh, ingy
18:05 nothingmuch damn!
18:06 nothingmuch well, the one on the right side kind of looks like chip
18:06 nothingmuch and that means that since the one on the left is choking him, he will kick her ass with some krav maga any moment now
18:06 stevan huh, no mustache
18:07 nothingmuch http://benicialiving.com/im​ages/uploads/camel_kiss.jpg
18:09 nothingmuch uck.. i just needed [==] @list in perl5
18:10 Khisanth List::Util? :)
18:10 kungfuftr [==] @list ?
18:10 nothingmuch Khisanth: yes and no
18:10 nothingmuch i'm using it
18:10 nothingmuch but chaining semantics are the same
18:10 nothingmuch kungfuftr: $list[0] == $list[1] == $list[2] ... == $list[n];
18:11 stevan the real Chip and Allison (http://home.sergeant.org/D70/YAPC/Hallw​ay%20Track/hallcon05_3.jpg?format=html)
18:11 kungfuftr ah... so a set operation
18:12 nothingmuch kungfuftr: no, not really
18:12 knewt_ has joined #perl6
18:12 nothingmuch circumfix [] takes an operator, and returns a listy operator
18:13 nothingmuch that iterates through the list, and applies the operator it got initially on every pair
18:13 nothingmuch with good semantics
18:13 nothingmuch sub product (*@numbers) { [*] @numbers }
18:13 kungfuftr ah... i see
18:13 nothingmuch that's essentially like 'reduce { $a * $b } @numbers'
18:14 nothingmuch but if it's boolean chaining operators, then it becomes funkier
18:16 nothingmuch actually i think it's a precircumfix operator
18:17 nothingmuch not a circumfix operator that returns an operator
19:03 meppl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
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19:14 svnbot6 r5136, putter++ | Created docs/SEEALSO.  Mainly to point to lib/pugs/*.pod.
19:17 gander has joined #perl6
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19:27 dudley Back from the midwife. It's a girl! Myles Phala Flanders, 7lbs, 12 oz.
19:29 ajs_ has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
19:32 rjbs congratulations!
19:32 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
19:32 kolibrie yes, congratulations!
19:33 integral congrats!   But does she have the commiter bit yet? :-P
19:34 dudley Not yet... but then again, neither do I... ; )
19:35 autrijus dudley: if you give me two emails...
19:37 autrijus I can make both of you commiters :)
19:40 dudley dkf AT misnomer.us, myles AT misnomer.us
19:41 kolibrie I suppose Myles will be our youngest committer
19:43 Darren_Duncan question about YAPC and other conferences ...
19:43 Darren_Duncan how common is it for people to have computers and/or not have computers with them?
19:44 Darren_Duncan I don't have a portable but intend to go to OSCON 2005 (already paid, too late to refund), and am wondering whether it would be a good idea to borrow or rent a portable to take along
19:44 Darren_Duncan I welcome advice
19:45 rjbs something like 75% of people or better have laptops
19:45 autrijus dudley: welcome aboard!
19:45 nothingmuch Darren_Duncan: you can buy one, it's fun
19:45 nothingmuch i bought a laptop at YAPC
19:45 kolibrie a 17 inch!
19:45 nothingmuch (my other laptop died)
19:45 autrijus I hope the committer bit makes a good 0th birthday present
19:45 nothingmuch =)
19:45 Darren_Duncan I'm tight on money so can't buy one 'til next year
19:46 nothingmuch os am I ;-)
19:46 nothingmuch (well, now, after buying the laptop)
19:46 kolibrie I didn't have one with me, and definitely felt very disconnected
19:46 Darren_Duncan it's worse ... I'm borrowing the money to go and don't have a job ... hope to get one after I return
19:47 autrijus it's like every talk is actually happening on both the realworld and the IRC as another track
19:47 kolibrie if you borrow one, don't spill coffee on it
19:47 autrijus in parallel. so borrowing a laptop is useful
19:47 nothingmuch or beer
19:47 dudley All right, thanks! It's a hell of a day today... : D
19:47 nothingmuch Darren_Duncan: eek.
19:47 nothingmuch OSCON is expensive, YAPC isn't
19:48 nothingmuch you should have swapped the two...
19:48 pjcj dudley: Congratulations! I'm glad you didn't choose Pugs as a middle name ...
19:48 Darren_Duncan I thought OSCON would be cheaper because I don't have to fly ... it's only 1 day's ground travel away from where I live
19:49 Darren_Duncan I recognize that YAPC is cheaper, but thought flying costs would be prohibitive
19:49 kolibrie they can be
19:49 Darren_Duncan my total estimated costs for OSCON 2005 is about CDN$2200 : $1700 conference, $350 hotel, $150 travel
19:50 Darren_Duncan that's with early reg plus user group discount, and having 3 or 4 people in the room
19:50 obra $350 for the hotel? Where are you staying?
19:50 obra ah.
19:50 Darren_Duncan Red Lion ... that is for 6 nights
19:50 Darren_Duncan same place Peter Scott is staying, and he lives in Victoria where I do
19:51 Darren_Duncan its just across from the conference center I believe
19:51 rjbs has left
19:52 Darren_Duncan regardless of computer own/borrow, is it worthwhile to get travelling insurance, or would the laptop be covered by regular home owner insurance?
19:52 putter has joined #perl6
19:52 putter I'm dusting the wiki a bit... where is there a _rendered_ version of the yapc talk?
19:53 nothingmuch http://pugscode.org/talks/yapc/index.html
19:53 Darren_Duncan separate question ...
19:53 putter thanks!
19:53 Darren_Duncan I plan to apply to give a Lightning Talk at OSCON ... getting right out there in my first conference
19:54 Darren_Duncan are there videos online of previous Lightning Talks so I can see how other people deliver theirs?
19:56 _Coke_ ... quickly.
19:56 nothingmuch Darren_Duncan: uhm, you don't want to know what our lightning talks were like..
19:56 nothingmuch there were ninjas, and juggling
19:56 Darren_Duncan I saw pictures and so have an idea
19:56 Darren_Duncan but sound and motion would be helpful too
19:57 _Coke_ luke++
19:57 Darren_Duncan I wanted to do one of the things which Lightning Talks are good for, and put up a quick introduction to my Rosetta/SQL::Routine work plus their Perl 6 versions that exist at the time
19:57 nothingmuch http://hew.ca/cgi-bin/page.pl​?Day=Day%203&amp;person_name=
19:58 PerlJam Darren_Duncan: speak fast, don't go into too much detail, and be dramatic and/or humorous.  You'll be fine.
19:58 nothingmuch should be uploaded there soon
19:58 Darren_Duncan I thought so ... but it's still nice to see examples ... I don't have any previous conferences to draw experience from
19:59 pdcawley_ has joined #perl6
19:59 Darren_Duncan thanks for the url, nothingmuch, will check back when movies up
19:59 Darren_Duncan this said, I wouldn't mind seeing ones from previous years also
20:00 Darren_Duncan will try more thorough google search than before
20:00 PerlJam Wasn't it autrijus who did a CPAN lightning talk?
20:00 pdcawley_ stevan about?
20:00 Darren_Duncan he was about 2 hours ago
20:01 pdcawley_ Ah... just I've finally got 'round to looking at Perl6-MetaModel
20:02 justatheory has joined #perl6
20:05 autrijus PerlJam: yeah http://autrijus.org/favcpan/
20:05 nnunley has joined #perl6
20:06 PerlJam Darren_Duncan: there you go!  Emulate autrijus :-)
20:06 autrijus that was the only time I got a standing ovation :)
20:07 Darren_Duncan looking ...
20:08 kolibrie so... where's the soundtrack?
20:08 PerlJam Darren_Duncan: or treat it like a poetry reading
20:08 PerlJam Darren_Duncan: or a song
20:08 Darren_Duncan btw, speaking of emulating, I always thought taking a few examples from Steve Jobs talks would be good
20:09 Darren_Duncan I can't sing ... but who knows, the poetry angle might work
20:10 PerlJam A couple of years ago I did a few lightning talks on perl6 for the local CS club.  It seems like now would be a good time to do that again (especially now that pugs is here)
20:11 autrijus kolibrie: http://www.perl.org/tpc/2003/audio/perl-lt/
20:11 autrijus poetry-reading is fine but don't go overboard...
20:11 autrijus I read the first few pugs poems in my yapc talk
20:12 autrijus then on the second half I announced I've used my Vogon quota
20:12 autrijus so I'll no longer subject the audience to poetry reading
20:12 PerlJam an LT on pugs or parrot or PGE or why-everything-starts-with-P would do well today
20:12 autrijus some of them look quite relieved
20:12 autrijus LT?
20:12 autrijus oh, lightning talk
20:12 Darren_Duncan the easiest thing for me to do is just talk ... like with the longer panels but short, sweet, and any questions
20:13 Darren_Duncan I'm not that dramatic ... mainly I just don't want to be boring
20:14 kolibrie autrijus: cool, thanks
20:14 PerlJam Darren_Duncan: well, talk in exaggerated imbic pentameter or something and it won't be boring :)
20:14 PerlJam iambic even
20:16 Darren_Duncan thanks for the http://www.perl.org/tpc/2003/audio/perl-lt/ link ... and I'll lookup other videos around the same place too
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20:22 gaal heya.
20:22 Darren_Duncan heya
20:23 gaal autrijus, this is a remooser about pugscc :)
20:23 Darren_Duncan I just watched the autrijus rap video ... quite nice but I couldn't understand most of it
20:23 gaal something instead of show for TVars is needed
20:23 Darren_Duncan now to more videos ...
20:23 autrijus gaal: yes, I have this line in my todo:
20:23 gaal i asked on #haskell and my mind was bended some.
20:23 autrijus pugs: zeroderef prelude pugscc quaname
20:23 justatheory has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
20:23 gaal i can work on the prelude if pugscc is fixed
20:24 kungfuftr theorbtwo: moo?
20:24 autrijus goodie. let me take a quick look
20:24 justatheory has joined #perl6
20:24 gaal though i still haven't really figured out how to get make to enter a new rule at the end of another one
20:24 gaal okay: the probelm afaik was that TVars show to "<ref>" which doesn't compile.
20:25 gaal (obviously)
20:25 leptonix has joined #perl6
20:26 stevan pdcawley: ping
20:27 autrijus gaal: where does <ref> occur? only in envGlobal?
20:27 gaal yes
20:27 gaal globC
20:27 putter ok, wiki dusted.
20:27 gaal wherever there's a TVar, really
20:27 Yaakov autrijus: In one of the group photos you are glowing.
20:28 Yaakov autrijus: Somehow, it is appropriate.
20:28 autrijus Yaakov: it's just the LCD backlight :)
20:28 Yaakov No, this is three bright stripes.
20:29 autrijus that is my scottevest.
20:29 Yaakov But, there is one where everyone but you is looking at the camera, you appear to be programming.
20:29 gaal oh, autrijus, envDebug is Just <ref> too.
20:29 gaal in some places.
20:30 autrijus Yaakov: in fact I was in #perl mumbling about how long the photo taking took, with many rotating cameras
20:30 stevan Yaakov: thats because he was proabbly programing
20:30 Yaakov Heh.
20:30 Yaakov I prefer to imagine you were implementing --^~`  (Whatever that means in pewrl 6).
20:30 Khisanth rotating cameras?! isn't that that the photography equivalent of copy and pasting code? ;)
20:31 Yaakov Khisanth: No, it is the equivalent of RAID.
20:31 Yaakov RAEC.
20:31 Yaakov (Expensive Cameras)
20:31 pdcawley_ Not panoramic jobs?
20:31 autrijus Yaakov: I prefer to ruthlessly shatter any rumours of my alledged sainthood :)
20:31 pdcawley_ NOBLEX etc...
20:31 pdcawley_ Horizont...
20:32 * autrijus is actually jsut a Friar
20:32 Yaakov autrijus: There is a fine line between saint and maniac.
20:32 Yaakov It is my impression you crossed it.
20:33 * autrijus needs to practice more on impressionism
20:33 Yaakov autrijus: In any case, I have no illusions of you as saint.  I just appreciate your unique merit.
20:33 Odin-LAP You mean there are no manic saints?
20:33 autrijus Yaakov: but thanks for your kind words :)
20:33 putter autrijus: fyi, I'm not seeing/pinging autrijus.org.  packets appear to disappear in a hinet.net router.
20:34 brentdax has joined #perl6
20:34 autrijus putter: that's an adsl and it looks like it just went down
20:34 putter k
20:34 autrijus worst case it'll be up in 36 hours when I'm physically back
20:35 gaal what's the topic of the rap lightning talk?
20:35 autrijus gaal: "1% of my favourite cpan"
20:35 autrijus http://www.perl.org/tpc/2003/presentations/
20:35 gaal i see why you have to talk so fast
20:36 whiteg has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:37 gaal (lots of stuff to include)
20:37 brentdax Are all the Perl 6 design documents up somewhere I can grab them?  I have a project I need to work on with Pugs when I have limited/no Internet access.
20:37 gaal cpan Perl6::Bible
20:37 PerlJam brentdax: they are in the svn repository.
20:37 stevan brentdax: however, they are not very up to date
20:38 stevan so don't believe anything you read :P
20:38 brentdax Heh.
20:38 autrijus brentdax: Perl6::Bible is usually good enough.
20:39 autrijus if it's not uptodate, send patch to pmichaud
20:39 autrijus he vowed to review and apply every one of them
20:39 Yaakov autrijus: I installed the Haskell compiler on my notebook because of your talk.
20:40 gaal shakespeare in the talk, lol
20:40 Yaakov Actually, your talk tipped the balance.  A lot of people I respect have mentioned it favorably, you just pushed it over the edge.
20:41 autrijus cool :)
20:42 PerlJam pugs was enough to tip the balance for me.  I'd played with haskell in the past but never so much as when I saw what autrijus could do with it.
20:43 arcady has quit IRC ("Leaving")
20:43 gaal autrijus: for loading the precompiled prelude: this should be enough for the actual loading, right?
20:43 gaal # runEnv env{ envBody = Pugs.PreludePC.ast, envGlobal = Pugs.PreludePC.glob, envDebug = Nothing }
20:43 * _Coke_ tries to remember if brentdax was one of the people he needed to bug.
20:44 brentdax Bug about what?
20:44 gaal with ast and glob being what -CPugs gave for Prelude.pm
20:44 _Coke_ Exactly.
20:44 * _Coke_ scratches his head.
20:44 _Coke_ Perhaps you're just famous. =-)
20:44 integral does this compiled prelude require two links?
20:44 gaal "i should have listened to what my mother told me"
20:44 _Coke_ what did she say?
20:44 clkao dear autrijus, do you know if it's possible to set rt.openfoundry's admincc to the list hosted by it
20:44 gaal "i don't know, i didn't listsen"
20:45 clkao (for svk, of course)
20:45 _Coke_ *bow* we'll be here all week!
20:45 PerlJam _Coke_: what's brentdax famous for?
20:46 brentdax has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
20:46 autrijus gaal: yes, I thnk
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20:48 autrijus gaal: fixed for simple cases (i.e. when user doesn't have 'sub foo {}')
20:49 autrijus the crux of the matter is that each sub contains a ref to its subEnv
20:49 autrijus but we can't fully serialise env without using some kind of recursion
20:49 svnbot6 r5137, autrijus++ | * perl script/pugscc --run -e 'say 1+3' now compiles again
20:49 svnbot6 r5137, autrijus++ |   (need to test non-TH builds)
20:49 gaal is it okay to call withSocketsDo more than once?
20:49 gaal # http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/librarie​s/network/Network.Socket.html#v%3AwithSocketsDo
20:50 autrijus I think yes
20:50 gaal sounds like it's okay
20:50 autrijus gaal: so I'm not quite sure how to go about fully serializing subEnv
20:50 autrijus maybe just do the same as with Compile VCode
20:50 gaal autrijus, the #haskell folks had some ideas which at some point i thought i almost understood
20:50 autrijus recursive mdo?
20:50 gaal about serializing STM
20:51 autrijus okie.
20:51 gaal is their channel logged?
20:51 autrijus yes I think, google around a bit?
20:51 autrijus (or just ask)
20:51 autrijus I'm feeling dizzy again... I think I need to nap a bit. see you around dinner time (i.e. <2hr)
20:51 _Coke_ pmichaud++
20:51 _Coke_ pmichaud++
20:52 autrijus gaal: but "normal" pugscc should work now
20:52 brentdax has joined #perl6
20:52 gaal i'll prolly not be here, but thanks :)
20:52 brentdax Not really used to running a computer on a battery.
21:00 nothingmuch kungfuftr: ping
21:04 gaal autrijus, for when you backlog: http://meme.b9.com/~164b38dd44af46a994821081​~/cview.html?channel=haskell&amp;date=050701 and vgrep for TVar
21:04 PerlJam has quit IRC ("*poof*")
21:05 gaal anyway: the prelude looks good with pugscc now.
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21:18 nothingmuch does anybody here think they can help Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix with some js?
21:18 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "when trying to runEnv the result of -CPugs" (18 lines, 781B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11479
21:19 Maddingue has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:19 _Coke_ what sort of js?
21:20 Maddingue has joined #perl6
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21:35 nothingmuch _Coke_: sorry, zonked
21:36 nothingmuch Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix is going to support consolidation of several reports
21:37 nothingmuch for every file, if all the versions of the file are the same, then there will be a little [+] sign on the left
21:37 nothingmuch when you click it, it expands, and the [+] is replaced with a [-]
21:37 nothingmuch then you can mouse over all of the versions, to see different diags, or whatever
21:37 SamB has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:37 nothingmuch when the versions are different, like for example, test case 6 of file t/foo.t fails on windows, then all versions of that file are automatically expanded
21:37 nothingmuch and the background of this cluster is darkened
21:38 nothingmuch i need the code to do [+] and [-]
21:38 nothingmuch i was thinking of stealing it from wikipedia's TOC hiding code
21:38 nothingmuch but then i found out that I don't like reading HTML code intertwined with JS
21:38 nothingmuch so I thought i'll excercise delegation, which is a good pattern
21:39 SamB has joined #perl6
21:39 nothingmuch damn, I want roles
21:39 nothingmuch in perl 5
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21:52 brentdax Is there something Ubuntu (or Debian) might have left out that would stop Perl 5 interop from compiling?
21:54 * putter wonders if autrijus could use a vacation... eating well, sleeping half the day, etc.  Tweaking clock speed up high.
21:56 obra heh
21:57 stevan nothingmuch: use the CSS display property
21:58 stevan for the [+] and [-] stuff
22:01 cwest Vacations are the killer of progress because you have to recover from them.
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22:12 putter :)
22:12 justatheory has quit IRC ()
22:17 nothingmuch stevan: can you do that stuff?
22:17 * Yaakov sets Casey on fire to help him recover.
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22:33 pdcawley Stevan: How much can I refactor that metamodel?
22:33 pdcawley 'cos there's far too many 'big ole subroutines' with responsibilities in the wrong place.
22:42 osfameron has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
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22:47 nothingmuch pdcawley: i'd say as much as you want, but try to comit changes incrementally
22:48 pdcawley Okay. I'm pulling Perl6::MetaModel::class out into a Perl6::ClassBuilder class, that way I can share the 'name' and 'param' and use a template method.
22:50 osfameron_ has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
22:53 putter Has anyone used eval('...',:lang<pir>)?
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23:25 pasteling "pdcawley" at 217.146.110.1 pasted "Perl6::ClassBuilder for Stevan" (110 lines, 2.9K) at http://sial.org/pbot/11482
23:25 pdcawley I haven't checked it in 'cos I got carried away refactoring and I've not quite implemented all the methods on Perl6::MetaClass yet.
23:27 pdcawley Plus, it's half past midnight, and my mother always told me never to check anything in after midnight when you've been up since 6.
23:28 clkao    
23:28 clkao .!
23:30 pjcj pdcawley's mother's maiden name was Lovelace?
23:32 autrijus no, her maiden name was Byron.
23:32 clkao hey autrijus don't ignore my question about openfoundry :p
23:32 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
23:33 autrijus clkao: I didn't see them. what questions?
23:33 clkao 04:44 < clkao> dear autrijus, do you know if it's possible to set rt.openfoundry's admincc to the list hosted
23:33 clkao          by it
23:34 autrijus clkao: sure, it's possible.
23:35 autrijus you can do that by adding a new user using the list address and then add the user as the proj admin
23:35 autrijus quite roundabout
23:35 autrijus but will work
23:35 autrijus otherwise I can just change the setting for you
23:36 autrijus would you like that?
23:37 autrijus (or, even more simpler -- just change your own email addr into the svk list addr)
23:37 * autrijus goes upstairs in search of dinner
23:38 clkao ?!?
23:41 obra so you can get your password reminders sent to svk-dev
23:41 autrijus that would be very cool indeed.
23:41 autrijus (not.)
23:42 autrijus clkao: so you want me to just new a nonpriviledged user svk-dev and add it to admincc?
23:43 clkao ya, please
23:43 clkao and i'm not in a mood that appreciate bad humours
23:44 autrijus very well. done.
23:45 autrijus you can tell that I'm sleepy when I start spewing very bad humours
23:45 autrijus sadly in the past 24 hours I'm constantly sleepy.
23:46 clkao flying home
23:46 clkao ?
23:46 Limbic_Region autrijus - long flight home - perhaps you unplug and just sleep?
23:47 autrijus that sounds nice. need food too
23:47 autrijus clkao: yeah
23:50 Limbic_Region not that you need any advice from me - but figuring out a way to shut your brain down first is the key to the sleep being refreshing
23:58 autrijus I'd like to learn that
23:58 autrijus ;)

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