| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:03 |
|
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| 00:12 |
rafl |
So is there any project admin available at the moment? It would be nice to add the user rafl to the commiters list. |
| 00:12 |
obra |
rafl: hold |
| 00:14 |
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| 00:15 |
obra |
rafl: done |
| 00:15 |
rafl |
obra: Thanks. |
| 00:21 |
mugwump |
src/Pugs/PreludePC.hs:28:15: Not in scope: `astPCP' |
| 00:21 |
mugwump |
is that you, gaal ? |
| 00:25 |
mugwump |
Installing precompiled prelude... ./pugs: error while loading shared libraries: libparrot.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 00:25 |
mugwump |
there's my problem |
| 00:25 |
spinclad |
Juerd, i may not have the full upsidedown charset, esp. in <B>; i can decypher all but 'Abuse|misuse results in account ____in__ion'. |
| 00:26 |
spinclad |
nm, a fresh thought suggests 'termination'. |
| 00:33 |
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| 00:34 |
svnbot6 |
r5242, mugwump++ | add to svn:ignore property some generated files |
| 00:34 |
svnbot6 |
r5243, mugwump++ | Make sure gen_prelude.pl fails if pugs returns an error code |
| 00:44 |
mugwump |
hmm, even the precompiled Prelude adds almost 2s to pugs -e 1 |
| 00:45 |
|
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| 00:52 |
mugwump |
Adding "use Test;" to the top of src/perl6/Prelude.pm doesn't speed up tests, either! Adds 3s to runtime |
| 00:52 |
svnbot6 |
r5244, rafl++ | * Fixed Copyright notice |
| 00:52 |
svnbot6 |
r5244, rafl++ | * Removed debian/{README.Debian,dirs,files,pugs.substvars} |
| 00:52 |
svnbot6 |
r5244, rafl++ | * Better description |
| 00:52 |
svnbot6 |
r5244, rafl++ | * Added me to uploaders |
| 00:52 |
svnbot6 |
r5244, rafl++ | * Bumped up Standards-Version |
| 00:53 |
meppl |
:-P |
| 00:58 |
mugwump |
however it does populate src/Pugs/PreludePC.hs with >1MB of Haskell very enlightening to internals |
| 01:10 |
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| 01:13 |
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| 01:15 |
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| 01:19 |
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| 01:27 |
rafl |
02:14 < obra> rafl: hold |
| 01:27 |
rafl |
02:14 < obra> rafl: hold |
| 01:27 |
rafl |
02:14 < obra> rafl: hold |
| 01:27 |
rafl |
Whops. Sorry.. |
| 01:28 |
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| 01:30 |
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| 01:34 |
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| 01:37 |
rafl |
The perl5 modules from the pugs distribution are installed in /usr/local/ by default for me while the rest is installed into /usr. How to change that? |
| 01:38 |
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| 01:48 |
mugwump |
rafl: you'll possibly need to edit the Makefile.PL to pass around the relevant PREFIX setting properly |
| 01:48 |
mugwump |
at a guess |
| 01:50 |
rafl |
mugwump: perl Makefile.PL INSTALLDIRS=vendor seems to work. |
| 01:58 |
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| 01:58 |
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| 02:09 |
rafl |
Well, it doesn't. If I do so the rest isn't installed anymore. |
| 02:21 |
rafl |
Ah, got it. There is a pure_site_install rule in the generated Makefile that installs the p6 stuff. |
| 02:21 |
rafl |
But it seems to be broken. |
| 02:34 |
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| 02:36 |
rafl |
OK, I have a fix for it. Would someone please test it and give me some feedback? http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~rafl/makefile_fix.diff |
| 02:37 |
rafl |
It works really nice for me. |
| 02:44 |
autrijus |
I'll use /\bman\d\b/ instead of /man\d/; also please try to keep expandtab (i.e. spaces only) too; also please add yourself to AUTHORS. I'll commit your patch with detab and the \b fix now |
| 02:44 |
svnbot6 |
r5245, autrijus++ | * some leftover misc. test fixes from the airport work |
| 02:45 |
autrijus |
committed as r5246 |
| 02:45 |
autrijus |
thanks :) |
| 02:46 |
* autrijus |
sinks back into blissful sleep... & |
| 02:47 |
rafl |
autrijus: OK, thanks. |
| 02:49 |
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| 02:49 |
svnbot6 |
r5246, autrijus++ | * rafl's patch to make Pugs's lib6 part install correctly under |
| 02:49 |
svnbot6 |
r5246, autrijus++ | Debian into the sitescript and man* directory. |
| 02:49 |
svnbot6 |
r5247, rafl++ | * Added me to AUTHORS |
| 02:52 |
clkao |
summon autrijus |
| 02:54 |
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| 02:54 |
rafl |
What do you use to speed up compilation times? Is there a way to make ghc use ccache or something equal? |
| 02:58 |
mugwump |
make unoptimised bypasses gcc for compilation, this makes it a lot faster |
| 03:01 |
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| 03:14 |
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| 03:16 |
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| 03:21 |
mugwump |
and it also skips a whole load of other optimising too |
| 03:21 |
mugwump |
actually maybe that other optimising is what takes the time |
| 03:21 |
* mugwump |
is running make with ghc -v set in the makefile |
| 03:25 |
* theorbtwo |
ponders finishing his new build system. |
| 03:25 |
theorbtwo |
Every time I think I'm done, though, I discover that I'm not. |
| 03:25 |
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| 03:26 |
dudley |
theorbtwo: While you're at it, write one for parrot that doesn't use Makefiles, so I can build it on VMS :-) |
| 03:27 |
theorbtwo |
Yeah, well, it's not really so much new as drasticly altered. |
| 03:28 |
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| 03:29 |
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| 03:31 |
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| 03:37 |
rafl |
What is usr/lib/perl6/5.8/CORE/pugs/gen_prelude for? |
| 03:38 |
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| 03:39 |
theorbtwo |
rafl: It generates a prelude.hs. We probably shouldn't ship it. |
| 03:39 |
theorbtwo |
orafu, at least, I see no reason to ship it. |
| 03:41 |
mugwump |
install it, you mean ;) |
| 03:41 |
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| 03:43 |
QtPlatypus |
?eval grammar foo {rule blacksheep {bar*}}; "barbar"~~ /<foo.blacksheep>/ |
| 03:43 |
evalbot6 |
pugs: src/events.c:270: init_events_first: Assertion `rc == 0' failed. |
| 03:44 |
QtPlatypus |
?eval grammar foo {rule blacksheep {bar*}}; ? ("barbar"~~ /<blacksheep>/) |
| 03:44 |
evalbot6 |
pugs: src/events.c:270: init_events_first: Assertion `rc == 0' failed. |
| 03:44 |
QtPlatypus |
?eval grammar foo {rule blacksheep {bar*}}; ? ("barbar"~~ /bar*/) |
| 03:44 |
evalbot6 |
pugs: src/events.c:270: init_events_first: Assertion `rc == 0' failed. |
| 03:44 |
QtPlatypus |
?eval ? ("barbar"~~ /bar*/) |
| 03:44 |
evalbot6 |
pugs: src/events.c:270: init_events_first: Assertion `rc == 0' failed. |
| 03:44 |
QtPlatypus |
?eval ? ("barbar"~~ /bar/) |
| 03:45 |
evalbot6 |
pugs: src/events.c:270: init_events_first: Assertion `rc == 0' failed. |
| 03:45 |
QtPlatypus |
Ok regex matching is broken in evalbot |
| 03:45 |
|
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| 03:46 |
rafl |
Hm, I can't see which rule installs gen_prelude.. |
| 03:48 |
|
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| 03:56 |
spinclad |
probably none. isn't it used in place? |
| 03:59 |
rafl |
I think it's done by the pure_$(INSTALLDIRS)_install and util/src_to_blib.pl |
| 03:59 |
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| 04:24 |
rafl |
Is there a manpage for pugs and pugscc somewhere? |
| 04:24 |
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| 04:24 |
spinclad |
^ yes, what src_to_blib.pl is doing could well be more selective. |
| 04:25 |
rafl |
Ah, pugscc has some pod. |
| 04:25 |
rafl |
spinclad: Right. But on which facts should it decide what to include and what not? Simply hardcoded paths? |
| 04:26 |
spinclad |
i think that will take some input from lambdafolk... |
| 04:26 |
rafl |
What's lambdafolk? |
| 04:27 |
spinclad |
but i could see it turning into a long spelled-out list |
| 04:27 |
spinclad |
haskellfolk |
| 04:27 |
theorbtwo |
I think the current API for doing plugins needs all the hi and o files. |
| 04:28 |
spinclad |
would it be enough to copy across .../*.hi and .../*.o? that wouldn't be a big change to src_to_blib |
| 04:30 |
Darren_Duncan |
maybe this was mentioned here but I'm getting a Makefile.PL error ... can't generate ... Perl 6 ... for ... darwin ...notify ... Brian Ingerson / ingy |
| 04:30 |
Darren_Duncan |
I assume this is due to an update in progress |
| 04:30 |
theorbtwo |
We might need *.h as well, at which point there isn't much we don't have. |
| 04:31 |
rafl |
Darren_Duncan: Well, I made some changes a short while ago. What's exactly the problem? |
| 04:32 |
Darren_Duncan |
'perl Makefile.PL' fails |
| 04:32 |
spinclad |
there's *.hs, and gen_prelude* at least. question would be whether it's worth being more selective. eventually yes, i'd think. |
| 04:32 |
rafl |
Darren_Duncan: Yes. What's the full error message you get? |
| 04:32 |
Darren_Duncan |
one minute ... |
| 04:33 |
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| 04:33 |
Darren_Duncan |
Can't generate the correct Perl6 equivalent for: / field name: installsiteman3dir / osname: darwin / Please notify the maintainer of this code. (Brian Ingerson for now) |
| 04:33 |
Darren_Duncan |
it says that following the standard 'parrot linking disabled' |
| 04:34 |
theorbtwo |
find inc|xargs grep 'Please notify' |
| 04:34 |
Darren_Duncan |
I noticed that a 'debian' directory was added recently ... was perhaps some functionality moved out of the generic directories and needs to be repeated for each OS? ... perhaps that's the case and 'darwin' wasn't done yet |
| 04:35 |
rafl |
Darren_Duncan: No. Try to substitute installsiteman3dir in inc/PugsConfig.pm by siteman3dir. |
| 04:36 |
Darren_Duncan |
file PugsConfig.pm; line 74 |
| 04:36 |
theorbtwo |
No, the debian directory just has stuff for making .deb files. |
| 04:38 |
Darren_Duncan |
I updated lines 47 and 48, and now Makefile.PL doesn't give that error |
| 04:39 |
Darren_Duncan |
it does throw some warnings about uninitialized var concatenation in Makefile.PL, though; line 242 |
| 04:40 |
spinclad |
installsiteman{1,3}dir are new, they may need some sort of setup on darwin. |
| 04:40 |
rafl |
Darren_Duncan: Yes. You'll need to substitute that as well in the postable part of Makefile.PL. |
| 04:43 |
rafl |
Cool. The Debian packages are now lintian clean. :-) |
| 04:44 |
revdiablo |
rafl++ |
| 04:47 |
rafl |
Can anyone tell my why the blib(5) stuff is as a source package with Makefile.PL, MANIFEST, tests and stuff? |
| 04:52 |
spinclad |
rafl++ # .debs are cool |
| 04:52 |
revdiablo |
we've had .debs for a while, spinclad. rafl just fixed 'em up more better. :) |
| 04:52 |
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| 04:53 |
spinclad |
deb++ # better .debs are cool |
| 04:53 |
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| 04:54 |
spinclad |
yeah, i was just looking at debian/ earlier today, but wasn't near doing anything with it myself |
| 04:56 |
revdiablo |
I've been building pugs into a .deb for a while, it seems to work fairly well. I think the changes rafl made are just to get it more compliant |
| 04:56 |
rafl |
I'm not sure what to do about the -doc package. There are so much different formats of documentation there. Do you think I should convert it to something more uniform? |
| 04:57 |
rafl |
revdiablo: Yes. They were quite messy. They didn't even build in a pbuilder environment. |
| 04:57 |
revdiablo |
I don't really know what pbuilder is, but I'm glad you cleaned them up regardless. :) |
| 04:59 |
rafl |
That's a chroot for building packages. It only contains build-essential and required packages. |
| 04:59 |
rafl |
It's important that the package works with pbuilder. Otherwise the debian autobuilders can't build it if someone uploads pugs into the archive. |
| 05:13 |
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| 05:13 |
svnbot6 |
r5248, rafl++ | * Removed debian/docs |
| 05:13 |
svnbot6 |
r5248, rafl++ | * Fixed Uploaders field |
| 05:13 |
svnbot6 |
r5248, rafl++ | * Fixed Build-Deps |
| 05:13 |
svnbot6 |
r5248, rafl++ | * Improved debian/copyright |
| 05:13 |
svnbot6 |
r5248, rafl++ | * Improved debian/rules |
| 05:15 |
QtPlatypus |
I'm thinking of writing "Str".trans from S05 as it doesn't seem to be implemented yet. Before I start on this where should I put the tests for it and where should the code go, somewhere in prelude? |
| 05:15 |
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| 05:19 |
Aankhen`` |
The tests for it could maybe go under t/builtins/? |
| 05:21 |
Aankhen`` |
Um. |
| 05:22 |
pasteling |
"Aankhen``" at 203.101.1.28 pasted "perl Makefile.PL bombs on Win32" (29 lines, 1.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/11558 |
| 05:23 |
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| 05:23 |
chromatic |
I think someone broke exporting. |
| 05:24 |
chromatic |
Check out ext/Test-Builder/t/010_Test_Builder_.t |
| 05:25 |
rafl |
Aankhen``: Check out again and try again, please. |
| 05:25 |
svnbot6 |
r5249, rafl++ | * s/installsiteman(1|3)dir/siteman$1dir/g |
| 05:25 |
Aankhen`` |
OK. |
| 05:26 |
Aankhen`` |
Nope. |
| 05:26 |
Aankhen`` |
No go. |
| 05:26 |
rafl |
Same error? |
| 05:26 |
Aankhen`` |
Yes. |
| 05:26 |
rafl |
Aankhen``: Can you please show me your %Config? |
| 05:27 |
Aankhen`` |
Shall I nopaste it? |
| 05:28 |
QtPlatypus |
Aankhen``: Thanks. |
| 05:28 |
rafl |
Aankhen``: Please. |
| 05:29 |
Aankhen`` |
Er... wait... do you just want `perl -MConfig -e "print %Config"`? |
| 05:29 |
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| 05:30 |
rafl |
Aankhen``: A more readable format would be better. Maybe using Data::Dumper. |
| 05:30 |
Aankhen`` |
Ah, OK. |
| 05:30 |
Aankhen`` |
That was my second guess. :-P |
| 05:30 |
ImustDIE |
is ghc required to get pasm/pir code from pugs? |
| 05:30 |
chromatic |
Yes. |
| 05:31 |
pasteling |
"Aankhen``" at 203.101.1.28 pasted "Perl 5 %Config" (972 lines, 36.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/11559 |
| 05:31 |
ImustDIE |
can i change the path where it looks for ghc at? |
| 05:32 |
chromatic |
Looks like setting the GHC environment variable will do it. |
| 05:33 |
chromatic |
Before you run Makefile.PL, anyway. |
| 05:34 |
ImustDIE |
i'm using the binary build from pixigreg.com/?pxperl on windows, so things are a little mixed around, i'll see if i can figure it out though |
| 05:35 |
chromatic |
A quick grep showed that Perl6::MakeMaker::assert_ghc() looks like the likely place, ImustDIE. |
| 05:35 |
ImustDIE |
thanks |
| 05:38 |
rafl |
Aankhen``: Does it work now? |
| 05:38 |
svnbot6 |
r5250, rafl++ | * Fix Makefile.PL for perl installations without $Config{installsiteman\ddir} |
| 05:38 |
* Aankhen`` |
checks. |
| 05:38 |
Aankhen`` |
Yay! |
| 05:38 |
rafl |
Cool. :-) |
| 05:38 |
Aankhen`` |
rafl++ rafl++ |
| 05:40 |
rafl |
Well, I also broke it this night.. rafl--; |
| 05:40 |
Aankhen`` |
I prefer to let bygones be bygones. ;-) |
| 05:40 |
chromatic |
Hm, export is not broken. |
| 05:40 |
chromatic |
Function dispatch may be. |
| 05:44 |
rafl |
Aankhen``: What perl are you using, btw? |
| 05:45 |
Aankhen`` |
ActivePerl. |
| 05:45 |
rafl |
Ah. |
| 05:45 |
Aankhen`` |
I'm a big fan of ActiveState. ^_^ |
| 05:46 |
rafl |
Well, I'm not. Their perl doesn't have $Config{installsiteman3dir}.. |
| 05:47 |
Aankhen`` |
Luckily, that doesn't affect me most of time. =) |
| 05:49 |
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| 05:51 |
ImustDIE |
chromatic: figured it out, thanks alot |
| 05:51 |
chromatic |
You're welcome. Glad to help. |
| 05:52 |
Aankhen`` |
rafl >> I hate to tell you this, but... |
| 05:52 |
pasteling |
"Aankhen``" at 203.101.1.28 pasted "nmake install bombs" (18 lines, 774B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11561 |
| 05:53 |
rafl |
:-/ |
| 05:53 |
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| 05:56 |
rafl |
Aankhen``: Can you show me the Makefile? |
| 05:56 |
svnbot6 |
r5251, rafl++ | * Removed debian/pugs-doc.{docs,install} |
| 05:56 |
svnbot6 |
r5251, rafl++ | * Cleaned up debian/rules |
| 05:56 |
svnbot6 |
r5251, rafl++ | * Install documentation in the right place |
| 05:56 |
svnbot6 |
r5251, rafl++ | * Fixed debian/changelog |
| 05:58 |
pasteling |
"Aankhen``" at 203.101.1.28 pasted "Makefile" (1457 lines, 94K) at http://sial.org/pbot/11562 |
| 05:59 |
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| 06:01 |
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| 06:02 |
rafl |
Aankhen``: fixed? |
| 06:02 |
svnbot6 |
r5252, rafl++ | * Added debian/pugs-doc.dirs |
| 06:02 |
svnbot6 |
r5253, rafl++ | * Fix util/PugsConfig.pm for strange perl installations like ActiveState |
| 06:03 |
chromatic |
Ahh, adding "module main" to the test file fixes things. |
| 06:03 |
chromatic |
Perhaps it thinks it's in the wrong module. |
| 06:04 |
gaal |
hi folks. i only have a couple of minutes but i saw prelude questions in the backlog |
| 06:04 |
gaal |
current state: worked around (See topic) |
| 06:04 |
gaal |
*two* preludes are generated now, and only one is used. |
| 06:05 |
gaal |
what is used now is the inlined p6 source code, which has to be compiled on every pugs load -- slow |
| 06:05 |
gaal |
this is src/gen_prelude.hs and has a makefile rule of its own |
| 06:06 |
gaal |
also (disabled but not removed completely) there's the precompiled predlude gen (util/gen_prelude.pl ; Pugs.PreludePC.hs) |
| 06:07 |
rafl |
gaal: But src/gen_prelude isn't needed to run pugs, right? It's installed by default.. |
| 06:07 |
gaal |
the scaffolding to load it works, but pugscc doesn't generate a complete enough dump yet, so it isn't in |
| 06:07 |
gaal |
rafl: ah. right, it shouldn't be installed, it's part of the build process only. |
| 06:07 |
gaal |
both of them. |
| 06:08 |
gaal |
do you install anythign from util/ in debian? |
| 06:08 |
rafl |
gaal: OK. So I think there's a change to util/src_to_blib.pl needed. It currently installs everything. |
| 06:08 |
rafl |
gaal: What ways are there to install only the needed things? |
| 06:09 |
rafl |
gaal: Only the vim syntax highlighting, currently. |
| 06:09 |
gaal |
i don't know :) haven't packaged any debs |
| 06:09 |
gaal |
exactly what i was thinking :) and perhaps the smoke stuff |
| 06:09 |
gaal |
anyway i must go, bbiab |
| 06:10 |
gaal |
just note the double link in the build process isn't actually useful right now, but will be soon, one hopes. |
| 06:10 |
* gaal |
waves & |
| 06:14 |
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| 06:14 |
svnbot6 |
r5254, rafl++ | * Run make test before installing |
| 06:16 |
Aankhen`` |
rafl >> Seems to be working now, thanks. :-) |
| 06:16 |
Aankhen`` |
(r5253) |
| 06:17 |
rafl |
Phew.. :-) |
| 06:19 |
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| 07:05 |
svnbot6 |
r5255, chromatic++ | Show name of sub with mismatched parameters in invocant binding failure message. |
| 07:05 |
svnbot6 |
r5255, chromatic++ | Comment typo fix in Pugs.Lexer. |
| 07:09 |
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| 08:56 |
QtPlatypus |
Is there a page that tells you how do unicode chars in emacs? |
| 08:59 |
Nattfodd |
What about http://www.vim.org/ ;p |
| 09:01 |
lumi |
"You can insert a character by its Unicode number using "M-x insert-ucs-character"." -- Does that help? |
| 09:01 |
lumi |
In mule-UCS I think |
| 09:04 |
* QtPlatypus |
finds ucs-insert |
| 09:16 |
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| 09:59 |
QtPlatypus |
?eval sub test(*@_) { join "foo" @_};test("a","b","c","d"); |
| 09:59 |
evalbot6 |
Error: unexpected "@" expecting operator, ",", ":", term postfix, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or "}" |
| 09:59 |
QtPlatypus |
?eval sub test(*@_) { join "foo",@_};test("a","b","c","d"); |
| 09:59 |
evalbot6 |
'afoobfoocfood' |
| 09:59 |
QtPlatypus |
?eval sub test(*@_) { join "foo",@_};test("a" => "b","c" => "d"); |
| 09:59 |
evalbot6 |
'' |
| 10:00 |
QtPlatypus |
Is that a bug? |
| 10:15 |
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| 11:14 |
JaffaCake |
I can't build pugs: "Perl v6.0.0 required--this is only v5.8.0, stopped at /home/simonmar/tmp/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.7/blib/lib/File/Find.pm line 3." |
| 11:14 |
JaffaCake |
can anyone shed any light? |
| 11:17 |
jp-autark |
I've had the exact same error, getting a newer perl helped. |
| 11:17 |
jp-autark |
as in 5.8.7 or something. |
| 11:17 |
jp-autark |
although, it was another module which complained, not File::Find. |
| 11:19 |
pjcj |
seems that perl5 is trying to run the perl6 libraries |
| 11:21 |
pjcj |
(are you allowed to run unix at microsoft?) ;-) |
| 11:22 |
Arathorn |
i'm sure the Mac BU at M$ do so occasionally ;) |
| 11:23 |
Arathorn |
(and the CLR freebsd dudes) |
| 11:25 |
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| 11:25 |
JaffaCake |
pjcj: shhhh :) |
| 11:26 |
Aankh|Clone |
I really don't like Java. |
| 11:26 |
Aankh|Clone |
The concept is interesting, but I absolutely dislike the numerous crashes. |
| 11:27 |
Arathorn |
i hate the jar dependency/classloader hell :( |
| 11:27 |
Aankh|Clone |
I am blissfully ignorant of that particular hell. =) |
| 11:27 |
Aankh|Clone |
Anyway. |
| 11:27 |
* Aankh|Clone |
returns to jumping around and shooting people. |
| 11:29 |
rafl |
I'd like to see utils/src_to_blib.pl changed to not to copy files you won't need at runtime into blib{,6} (for example gen_prelude). Can anyone do that change or tell me a heuristic to decide which files to copy and which not? |
| 11:29 |
svnbot6 |
r5256, rafl++ | * debian/control: better Description for pugs-doc |
| 11:29 |
svnbot6 |
r5256, rafl++ | * debian/rules: Install some examples with pugs-doc |
| 11:31 |
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| 11:33 |
QtPlatypus |
Can anyone tell me why a slurpy array will not slurp up pairs? |
| 11:37 |
pdcawley |
Aren't they taken to be part of the slurpy hash? |
| 11:39 |
QtPlatypus |
?eval sub test(*@_) { join "foo",@_};test("a" => "b","c" => "d"); |
| 11:39 |
evalbot6 |
'' |
| 11:39 |
QtPlatypus |
They should be but appren'y don't. |
| 11:42 |
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| 11:53 |
Arathorn |
*.bbc.co.uk is comically dead |
| 11:53 |
Arathorn |
but on the plus side, we get the olympics. hoorah |
| 11:58 |
* masak |
is happy because the proposed law on European patents was not accepted |
| 11:59 |
masak |
software patents somehow don't seem like a good idea to me |
| 11:59 |
* QtPlatypus |
looks supprized "Wow! I thought that was one we had lost." |
| 12:00 |
* Nattfodd |
happily hands out the olympics to Arathorn |
| 12:03 |
* Arathorn |
happily watches his council tax quadruple |
| 12:04 |
masak |
QtPlatypus: nope, they really do listen over there in Brussels |
| 12:04 |
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| 12:05 |
masak |
plus, I think they were overwhelmed by the interest in the issue on the part of programmers in Europe |
| 12:06 |
osfameron |
also, it helped that they were pissed off about the Commission |
| 12:06 |
osfameron |
trying to steamroller the bill through. |
| 12:06 |
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| 12:08 |
masak |
osfameron: yeah, that wasn't very nice |
| 12:10 |
Arathorn |
hopefully it won't end up with a comedy rush-the-bill-through-at-3am Patriot Act stylee |
| 12:13 |
Limbic_Region |
seen autrijus |
| 12:13 |
jabbot |
Limbic_Region: autrijus was seen 9 hours 27 minutes 56 seconds ago |
| 12:14 |
Limbic_Region |
oh - so he did come back to the land of the living |
| 12:18 |
masak |
yep, he's underclocked though |
| 12:19 |
masak |
sounds like a contradiction in terms: "underclocked autrijus" |
| 12:22 |
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| 12:32 |
QtPlatypus |
masak: Can you point me at a sight about its falure? |
| 12:34 |
masak |
sure |
| 12:35 |
masak |
http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/ap/2005/07/06/ap2124966.html |
| 12:35 |
QtPlatypus |
Thanks, it wasn't on groklaw or slashdot. |
| 12:36 |
QtPlatypus |
A 648-14 vote. Damn that wasn't just rejected, it was massively rejected. |
| 12:38 |
Nattfodd |
QtPlatypus: yes, the bad guys voted like us because they were fearing too many "amendments" |
| 12:38 |
Nattfodd |
(don't know the english word) |
| 12:40 |
QtPlatypus |
Thats the correct english word |
| 12:42 |
* masak |
kept calling the MEPs yesterday to make sure they understood the gravity of the situation |
| 12:42 |
masak |
they did |
| 12:50 |
* geoffb |
cheers |
| 12:50 |
geoffb |
That's damn good news |
| 12:51 |
* geoffb |
has practically gone into "Hear No Evil" mode with all the bad news of late |
| 12:51 |
geoffb |
It's refreshing to get a tidbit of good news for once. |
| 12:51 |
Nattfodd |
geoffb: with olympics on London, that makes two good news on the same day |
| 12:52 |
Nattfodd |
double cheers |
| 12:52 |
geoffb |
:-) |
| 12:52 |
castaway |
that one depends on your definite of "good" :) |
| 12:52 |
masak |
also on your definition of "news" |
| 12:52 |
Nattfodd |
castaway: I'm french :p |
| 12:53 |
geoffb |
My definition of good olympics news is "NIMBY" -- my wife suffered through that when the olympics were in Atlanta, and it apparently sucked |
| 12:54 |
castaway |
heh, Net |
| 12:54 |
castaway |
oops Nattfodd |
| 12:54 |
castaway |
NIMBY? |
| 12:54 |
theorbtwo |
Not In My Back Yard. |
| 12:54 |
castaway |
ah |
| 12:54 |
geoffb |
Not In My BackYard |
| 12:54 |
pdcawley |
NIMBY is Not In My Back Yard |
| 12:54 |
geoffb |
wheee, great minds typing alike |
| 12:54 |
geoffb |
(or near 'nuff) |
| 12:54 |
|
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| 12:55 |
* theorbtwo |
isn't sure he qualifies as a great mind. |
| 12:55 |
* castaway |
ponders if Geoff is a brit |
| 12:55 |
geoffb |
You're here, aren't you? |
| 12:56 |
* castaway |
thwaps theorbtwo |
| 12:56 |
geoffb |
castaway, I'm named after Chaucer, and my blood is about as Brit as it comes (English, Scottish, Welsh, and a bit of Dutch), but I'm umpteenth-generation American |
| 12:56 |
castaway |
durnit :) |
| 12:56 |
geoffb |
castaway, ? |
| 12:56 |
* kungfuftr |
freaks out at the amount of organisational stuff he's been handed at $work |
| 12:56 |
castaway |
kungfuftr: I hope thats not indirectly my fault :) |
| 12:56 |
QtPlatypus |
geoffb: I liked it when the olympics where in sydney. |
| 12:57 |
castaway |
geoffb: ooch, my radar failing again, somehow it sounded like it |
| 12:57 |
castaway |
.oO( "sounded" -> "read" - whatever) |
| 12:57 |
kungfuftr |
castaway: heh, i blame the boss... but yeah... bigger team means more organisational stuff |
| 12:57 |
kungfuftr |
*sob* |
| 12:57 |
pdcawley |
I think Atlanta's held up as the byword in crap olympics isn't it? |
| 12:57 |
pdcawley |
Sort of rewrote the "What not to do" playbook. |
| 12:57 |
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| 12:57 |
geoffb |
castaway, ah! *chuckle* |
| 12:57 |
* castaway |
hugs kungfuftr |
| 12:58 |
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| 12:58 |
geoffb |
pdcawley, wouldn't doubt it. |
| 12:58 |
* kungfuftr |
notes to give castaway lots of work when she arrives |
| 12:59 |
castaway |
eep! |
| 12:59 |
* castaway |
smuggles theorbtwo in and gives him half ,) |
| 13:00 |
geoffb |
My experience with Atlanta is limited, but the only thing I know of that it has going for it is a strong alternative sexuality community -- which you just gotta applaud in the middle of the US deep south. That takes guts. |
| 13:00 |
castaway |
Atlanta++ |
| 13:01 |
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| 13:08 |
masak |
karma Atlanta |
| 13:08 |
jabbot |
masak: Atlanta has neutral karma |
| 13:08 |
masak |
Atlanta++ |
| 13:09 |
rafl |
karma rafl |
| 13:09 |
jabbot |
rafl: rafl has neutral karma |
| 13:11 |
geoffb |
karma Atlanta |
| 13:11 |
jabbot |
geoffb: Atlanta has neutral karma |
| 13:11 |
geoffb |
hmmm, jabbot karma seems fu |
| 13:11 |
geoffb |
Does perlbot watch it? |
| 13:11 |
geoffb |
perlbot, karma Atlanta |
| 13:11 |
perlbot |
Karma for Atlanta: 2 |
| 13:11 |
jabbot |
geoffb: Atlanta has neutral karma |
| 13:12 |
geoffb |
perlbot, karma rafl |
| 13:12 |
perlbot |
Karma for rafl: 25 |
| 13:12 |
jabbot |
geoffb: rafl has neutral karma |
| 13:12 |
geoffb |
jabbot needs to learn to ignore things specifically aimed at another bot . . . . |
| 13:13 |
QtPlatypus |
perlbot, karma qtplatypus |
| 13:13 |
perlbot |
Karma for qtplatypus: 12 |
| 13:13 |
jabbot |
QtPlatypus: qtplatypus has neutral karma |
| 13:13 |
masak |
jabbot, specifically ignore things aimed for other bots |
| 13:13 |
jabbot |
masak: Tell me more about that. |
| 13:13 |
masak |
:) |
| 13:14 |
masak |
jabbot, what i mean is that when i'm talking to other bots, i don't want you to interrupt us |
| 13:14 |
jabbot |
masak: äºè§£ |
| 13:14 |
* masak |
laughs |
| 13:15 |
* QtPlatypus |
blinks |
| 13:19 |
theorbtwo |
jabbot, what? |
| 13:19 |
jabbot |
theorbtwo: what is it |
| 13:19 |
theorbtwo |
jabbot, it's nothing. |
| 13:19 |
jabbot |
theorbtwo: Tell me more about that. |
| 13:19 |
osfameron |
jabbot does Eliza? |
| 13:20 |
masak |
jabbot, that goes for others as well. it is not considered good manners to speak when others are conversing |
| 13:20 |
jabbot |
masak: hmm |
| 13:20 |
masak |
jabbot, think about it |
| 13:20 |
jabbot |
masak: That is interesting. Please continue. |
| 13:20 |
masak |
jabbot, i just want you to respect when others are talking |
| 13:20 |
jabbot |
masak: We were discussing you -- not me. |
| 13:20 |
masak |
we were? |
| 13:20 |
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| 13:20 |
geoffb |
If we hooked jabbot up to emacs' psychatrist mode, I wonder if jabbot would learn anything |
| 13:21 |
masak |
:) |
| 13:21 |
geoffb |
Oh, those last couple of jabbot responses are pretty much right out of the Eliza dict |
| 13:21 |
* castaway |
nudges theorbtwo (why is the IM window dead?) |
| 13:26 |
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| 14:30 |
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| 14:30 |
Arathorn |
phew |
| 14:30 |
* Arathorn |
can breathe again |
| 14:31 |
pdcawley |
why do you think if you hooked jabbot up to emacs' psychiatris mode, you wonder if jabbot would learn anything? |
| 14:35 |
masak |
pdcawley: is why do you think if I hooked jabbot up to emacs' psychiatris mode, I wonder if jabbot would learn anything why you have come here? |
| 14:35 |
Arathorn |
tell me more about that |
| 14:36 |
masak |
we were discussing you -- not me |
| 14:36 |
pdcawley |
masak: I'm asking the questions. |
| 14:36 |
* pdcawley |
wonders if it'd be possible to write a nicecop/nastycop version of Eliza. |
| 14:36 |
masak |
pdcawlay: why do you think you're asking the questions? |
| 14:38 |
masak |
pdcawley: there's always parry, the psychiatric patient bot |
| 14:39 |
Arathorn |
fisher king ref? |
| 14:40 |
masak |
http://socialfiction.org/scrabble/BOTWRITER.html |
| 14:40 |
masak |
http://www.stanford.edu/group/SHR/4-2/text/dialogues.html |
| 14:44 |
Arathorn |
looks like it is, then |
| 14:44 |
* Arathorn |
needs to watch that again |
| 14:45 |
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| 14:46 |
* eric256 |
almost got on hear to ask if a bug involving .= had already been reported.....then i woke up and corrected the code to ~=.....i have a feeling that one is going to bite me a few more times ;) |
| 14:50 |
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| 14:58 |
* Limbic_Region |
notes that the build of Pugs speeded up dramatically when he closed his mail application and his browser and wonders how much memory the thing actually consumes |
| 15:21 |
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| 15:36 |
geoffb |
Limbic_Region, a LOT. Like, a very large amount. On my box, about 135 MB for UNoptimized, and I'm not sure optimized will even finish if I have firefox running at the same time |
| 15:37 |
geoffb |
(that's Debian on i386) |
| 15:44 |
geoffb |
You know, come to think of it, that was just the size of the ghc and ld processes individually, I've never taken the time to try to determine the maximum memory footprint of make and all its children combined |
| 15:44 |
geoffb |
hmmm . . . anyone know an easy way to do that? |
| 15:45 |
* integral |
has only ever watches with top |
| 15:46 |
integral |
ghc and gcc (each) reached about 750MB when optimising |
| 15:46 |
sili |
dude |
| 15:46 |
sili |
that's |
| 15:46 |
sili |
crazy |
| 15:46 |
integral |
takes about 120 minutes too |
| 15:47 |
sili |
fo sheezy |
| 15:57 |
eric256 |
whats the news on getting prelude.pm pre compiled? |
| 15:59 |
gaal|work |
eric. backlog around ten hours ago. summary: not yet. |
| 15:59 |
svnbot6 |
r5257, iblech++ | * Usual svn properties added to new files in ext/, docs/, and debian/. |
| 15:59 |
svnbot6 |
r5257, iblech++ | * debian/control -- s:g/Perl6/Perl 6/ (consistency with README, Perl6::Pugs, |
| 15:59 |
svnbot6 |
r5257, iblech++ | and other files). |
| 16:03 |
eric256 |
hehe. okay. just curious. i was trying to catch up on what i've missed, any new wow factor with OO? like modifying existing classes, builtins not clobbering user defines etc? |
| 16:03 |
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| 16:05 |
svnbot6 |
r5258, iblech++ | debian/changelog -- Fixed a datestamp line to conform to parsechangelog's |
| 16:05 |
svnbot6 |
r5258, iblech++ | regular expression. |
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| 17:59 |
svnbot6 |
r5259, Stevan++ | Perl6-MetaModel : moved much of what was in Perl6::MetaModel to Perl6::Class; so now classes are constructed by Perl6::Class and Perl6::MetaModel is just a thin wrapper around the them to make using it easier; |
| 18:06 |
wolverian |
(european union parliament)++ |
| 18:08 |
|
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| 18:14 |
Aankhen`` |
([accidentally] clueful politicians)++ |
| 18:17 |
spinclad |
now if only we can do the same in the US. seems like a tougher corporocracy to affect, though. |
| 18:19 |
revdiablo |
(using good news as an opportunity to bitch about bad news)-- |
| 18:19 |
Aankhen`` |
Yeesh... people complain about 31 degrees? |
| 18:19 |
Aankhen`` |
It's 45 degrees here in India! |
| 18:19 |
Aankhen`` |
And Orissa is 55 degrees! |
| 18:19 |
pdcawley |
coroporocracy? What's wrong with Oligarchy? |
| 18:20 |
wolverian |
corporacy is the term I've seen, besides oligarchy |
| 18:21 |
wolverian |
or corporatism |
| 18:21 |
gaal |
got a link to the eu story? |
| 18:21 |
wolverian |
it is a more specific name than oligarchy |
| 18:21 |
Aankhen`` |
[21:38:03] -lilo- [Global Notice] Whoops, one more try.... the last story was months old, this is the current one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4655955.stm |
| 18:21 |
wolverian |
gaal: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/06/eu_bins_swpat/ |
| 18:21 |
Aankhen`` |
(gaal) |
| 18:23 |
wolverian |
oh, and also corporatocracy |
| 18:23 |
wolverian |
but that's getting just hard to type |
| 18:23 |
|
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| 18:23 |
gaal |
corpiratocracy :) |
| 18:23 |
revdiablo |
corporobotocraticologism |
| 18:24 |
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| 18:26 |
spinclad |
i wouldn't say bitch about bad news, rather whine about bad conditions. me-- |
| 18:26 |
wolverian |
oxymoron: corporational |
| 18:29 |
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| 18:31 |
spinclad |
(amazing vote)++ (issue not coming back for a good while)++ |
| 18:34 |
lightstep |
all you hippies want to do is stop innovation |
| 18:35 |
* lightstep |
is a fat, white bastard today |
| 18:35 |
spinclad |
lightstep has it backwards |
| 18:35 |
Aankhen`` |
perlbot karma me |
| 18:35 |
perlbot |
Karma for me: -4 |
| 18:36 |
lightstep |
perlbot karma me |
| 18:36 |
perlbot |
Karma for me: -4 |
| 18:36 |
lightstep |
perlbot karma lightstep |
| 18:36 |
perlbot |
Karma for lightstep: 8 |
| 18:36 |
lightstep |
perlbot karma c |
| 18:36 |
perlbot |
Karma for c: 635 |
| 18:36 |
Khisanth |
spinclad: he is a white, fat bastard? |
| 18:36 |
Aankhen`` |
perlbot karma Aankhen |
| 18:36 |
perlbot |
Karma for Aankhen: 159 |
| 18:36 |
Aankhen`` |
perlbot karma Aankhen`` |
| 18:36 |
perlbot |
Karma for Aankhen``: 18 |
| 18:36 |
Aankhen`` |
perlbot top 10 karma |
| 18:36 |
perlbot |
The top 10 karma entries: autrijus: 1062, iblech: 778, C: 635, stevan: 167, Aankhen: 159, mugwump: 131, gaal: 129, nothingmuch: 116, putter: 115, chromatic: 73 |
| 18:36 |
Aankhen`` |
Wah. |
| 18:36 |
lightstep |
Khisanth, i flipped the name of the book |
| 18:44 |
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| 19:22 |
|
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| 19:22 |
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| 19:22 |
svnbot6 |
r5260, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel - Perl6::Object now has the proper bless -> CREATE -> BUILDALL -> BUILD progression of events for instance creation; this also means that we have moved instance creation out of the Metaclass and it now the responsibility of the base Object class; |
| 19:29 |
wolverian |
stevan++ # wow |
| 19:29 |
svnbot6 |
r5261, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel - cleaned up a test to use $class.bless() to make sure that works (as that is how it is supposed to work); Perl6::Object really needs to be self hosting soon :P |
| 19:29 |
wolverian |
I'm going to have to take a look at that |
| 19:29 |
wolverian |
sweet progress :) |
| 19:30 |
stevan |
wolverian: its in Perl5 right now |
| 19:30 |
stevan |
it will be the runtime support for the PIL -> Perl5 compiler luqui and nothingmuch are working on |
| 19:31 |
wolverian |
what does the compiler compile down to? |
| 19:31 |
wolverian |
perl5? |
| 19:31 |
stevan |
yup |
| 19:31 |
stevan |
it parses PIL then emits Perl5 code |
| 19:31 |
wolverian |
how hard would it be to use the metamodel to output PIR? |
| 19:31 |
wolverian |
(or PASM) |
| 19:32 |
wolverian |
(or PAST, or whatever :) |
| 19:32 |
stevan |
the metamodel wont do that |
| 19:32 |
wolverian |
well, okay - what I meant is that is it pluggable enough to be used in such a manner? |
| 19:32 |
wolverian |
output agnostic if you will |
| 19:32 |
stevan |
the PIL parser can emit PIR/PASM/whatever just by building the emitter |
| 19:32 |
wolverian |
right |
| 19:32 |
stevan |
the metamodel is the runtime object support |
| 19:32 |
wolverian |
and the metamodel has nothing to do with that? |
| 19:32 |
stevan |
not really |
| 19:33 |
wolverian |
right, so we need to compile it down to PIR too? :) |
| 19:33 |
wolverian |
(ponie..) |
| 19:33 |
wolverian |
(if I want to use it to compile down to parrot, that is) |
| 19:33 |
stevan |
ideally Parrot will support most of it already, so we wont have to do as much as we are doing in Perl5 |
| 19:33 |
wolverian |
I guess ,yeah |
| 19:33 |
wolverian |
s/ ,/, / |
| 19:33 |
stevan |
but if you want to compile perl6 to another language (Perl5, javascript, etc) you will need to implement the metamodel there |
| 19:34 |
wolverian |
unless that language runs on aprrot |
| 19:34 |
wolverian |
s,ap,pa, # argh |
| 19:34 |
stevan |
yes |
| 19:34 |
wolverian |
is the PIL parser being written? |
| 19:35 |
stevan |
yes, by luqui (Luke Palmer) and nothingmuch |
| 19:35 |
stevan |
or at least it *was* being written at the hackathon |
| 19:35 |
wolverian |
is it in source control? |
| 19:35 |
wolverian |
I mean, public |
| 19:35 |
stevan |
should be in the Pugs repo |
| 19:35 |
wolverian |
ah, thanks |
| 19:35 |
stevan |
they were writting it in Perl6 |
| 19:36 |
wolverian |
hmm. using pugs's perl5 interface to use the metamodel? |
| 19:36 |
wolverian |
or is that another component entirely? |
| 19:36 |
wolverian |
(I mean, the component that uses the metamodel..) |
| 19:36 |
wolverian |
do you ever get a headache over things like this? |
| 19:37 |
stevan |
LOL |
| 19:37 |
stevan |
all the time |
| 19:37 |
wolverian |
heh. |
| 19:37 |
wolverian |
I think a schematic of the components and their relations would be nice |
| 19:37 |
wolverian |
if such a plan exists yet |
| 19:38 |
stevan |
when PIL is compiled to Perl5, it is compiled into code which uses the Perl6::MetaModel |
| 19:38 |
wolverian |
ah, right. |
| 19:38 |
wolverian |
is the actual compiler interlinked with the parser, or are they completely separate+ |
| 19:38 |
wolverian |
s,+,?, |
| 19:38 |
stevan |
lib/P5-PIL-Run/ actually has some early versions of the base types (Array, Hash, Scalar) |
| 19:39 |
stevan |
I am not sure how the PIL parser/compiler works, I didnt write it :) |
| 19:39 |
wolverian |
right, I'd have to look at it myself :) |
| 19:39 |
wolverian |
I'll do that later tonight |
| 19:40 |
wolverian |
I'll try if this copy protection this game comes with will block me from playing it on this computer too now |
| 19:40 |
stevan |
ext/Perl-Compiler is where the PIL stuff is |
| 19:40 |
wolverian |
(I bought the game) |
| 19:40 |
wolverian |
thanks! |
| 19:41 |
stevan |
your welcome :) |
| 19:45 |
Aankhen`` |
?eval class Foo { sub bar (::?CLASS $self: ) { .ref } }; Foo.new.bar |
| 19:45 |
evalbot6 |
Error: unexpected ":" expecting formal parameter, end of input or ")" |
| 19:45 |
Aankhen`` |
When did that break? |
| 19:46 |
gaal |
do you mean ./ref? |
| 19:46 |
Aankhen`` |
No, I mean ::?CLASS. |
| 19:46 |
Aankhen`` |
?eval class Foo { sub bar () { .ref } } Foo.new.bar |
| 19:46 |
evalbot6 |
::Str |
| 19:46 |
Aankhen`` |
?eval class Foo { sub bar () { ./ref } } Foo.new.bar |
| 19:46 |
evalbot6 |
Error: Undeclared variable: "$?SELF" |
| 19:46 |
Aankhen`` |
O_O |
| 19:46 |
gaal |
oops :) |
| 19:47 |
Aankhen`` |
?eval class Foo { sub bar () { ./ref } } my $foo = Foo.new(); $foo.bar |
| 19:47 |
evalbot6 |
Error: Undeclared variable: "$?SELF" |
| 19:47 |
Aankhen`` |
?eval class Foo { sub bar () { .ref } } my $foo = Foo.new(); $foo.bar |
| 19:47 |
evalbot6 |
::Str |
| 19:47 |
Aankhen`` |
?eval class Foo { sub bar () { .ref } } my $foo = Foo.new(10); $foo.bar |
| 19:47 |
evalbot6 |
Error: Can't use positionals in default new constructor |
| 19:47 |
Aankhen`` |
Riiight... |
| 19:51 |
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| 19:54 |
Aankhen`` |
gaal >> Do you have enough Haskell know-how to reapply 4496? I think it got lost somewhere... |
| 19:55 |
gaal |
4496....? *looks* |
| 19:56 |
Aankhen`` |
?eval class Foo { sub bar (::("?CLASS $self: ) { .ref } }; Foo.new.bar |
| 19:56 |
evalbot6 |
Error: unexpected ":" expecting formal parameter, end of input or ")" |
| 19:56 |
Aankhen`` |
?eval class Foo { sub bar (::("?CLASS") $self: ) { .ref } }; Foo.new.bar |
| 19:56 |
evalbot6 |
Error: unexpected ":" expecting formal parameter, end of input or ")" |
| 19:56 |
Aankhen`` |
?eval class Foo { sub bar (("::?CLASS") $self: ) { .ref } }; Foo.new.bar |
| 19:56 |
evalbot6 |
Error: unexpected "(" expecting formal parameter, ":" or ")" |
| 19:57 |
gaal |
when/why was it reverted? |
| 19:58 |
Aankhen`` |
I dunno. |
| 19:59 |
gaal |
hmm, i see some of it at least has been moved to Pugs.Eval.Var |
| 19:59 |
gaal |
(the getMagical stuff) |
| 20:01 |
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| 20:01 |
gaal |
the Parser hunk, it seems to have been either refactored or lost |
| 20:02 |
gaal |
but i don't really understand what it does. |
| 20:02 |
gaal |
iblech about? |
| 20:02 |
Aankh|Clone |
Apparently not. :-( |
| 20:02 |
Aankh|Clone |
Ah well, I gotta go sleep. |
| 20:02 |
Aankh|Clone |
G'night. |
| 20:02 |
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| 20:02 |
gaal |
night. |
| 20:11 |
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| 20:16 |
stevan |
hey gaal |
| 20:16 |
gaal |
heya |
| 20:16 |
stevan |
hows life? |
| 20:16 |
gaal |
harmonic. |
| 20:16 |
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| 20:16 |
stevan |
you are clearly not in jail :) |
| 20:16 |
stevan |
which is a good thing |
| 20:16 |
gaal |
which is to say, up and down :) |
| 20:17 |
gaal |
i am indeed not in jail. |
| 20:17 |
svnbot6 |
r5262, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel - added support for DESTROY submethods as well as DESTROYALL support in Perl6::Object; this is also tested in a new test file t/03_DESTORY.t to confirm it works in the correct order |
| 20:17 |
gaal |
and you, my friend, are not stoppable :) |
| 20:17 |
stevan |
actually the $work T1 is down |
| 20:18 |
stevan |
once it comes back up, ... I will be stopped :) |
| 20:18 |
gaal |
dos to increase productivity :) |
| 20:18 |
stevan |
LOL |
| 20:18 |
stevan |
shhhh |
| 20:18 |
stevan |
dont tell anyone :P |
| 20:19 |
* stevan |
need to remember to hide those wire cutters in case the $boss comes around snooping |
| 20:20 |
gaal |
T1, that used to be insanely fast |
| 20:20 |
stevan |
yeah, I brought one of the servers home, so the $client can still access it |
| 20:20 |
gaal |
well it's still not bad if it's symmetric |
| 20:21 |
stevan |
and the $client was like "wow, did you guys get an upgrade" |
| 20:21 |
|
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| 20:21 |
stevan |
cause my cable modem is better then the T1 basically :P |
| 20:21 |
kolibrie |
but you didn't bring home the dev box, huh? :) |
| 20:21 |
gaal |
stupid local economy permits ADSL to be very A. 1:8 up/down |
| 20:21 |
stevan |
kolibrie: nope :) |
| 20:21 |
gaal |
or worse actually |
| 20:22 |
stevan |
gaal: ouch |
| 20:22 |
stevan |
kolibrie: the dev box has a number of projects on it, so it would not have been okay to take home |
| 20:22 |
wolverian |
gaal: I think the ADSL spec doesn't go any higher than that. |
| 20:23 |
kolibrie |
stevan: just don't get into a chip dilemna |
| 20:23 |
gaal |
i have 1.5m down and 96k up.... or is it 128 now? |
| 20:24 |
gaal |
i feel i ought to know such things |
| 20:24 |
gaal |
but apparently at the end of long days i forget |
| 20:24 |
stevan |
kolibrie: not to worry, we are small and only engage in legal activities :) |
| 20:25 |
kolibrie |
:) |
| 20:26 |
stevan |
I gave up working for sleazy bosses when I left advertising :) |
| 20:26 |
gaal |
loop { advertising-- } |
| 20:26 |
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| 20:27 |
stevan |
gaal++ # :) |
| 20:27 |
kolibrie |
gaal: forever... |
| 20:28 |
wolverian |
gaal: ew, that is a horrible upload |
| 20:28 |
gaal |
best you can get for commodity prices around here. |
| 20:28 |
wolverian |
gaal: the ratio here is 2:1 generally, until 1mb upload over which it doesn't go (so I have 8mb down, 1mb up) |
| 20:28 |
wolverian |
gaal: I feel your pain. :/ |
| 20:28 |
wolverian |
(1mb upload sucks too, though.) |
| 20:29 |
* stevan |
can't wait till let finish laying the fiber-to-the-house up here |
| 20:29 |
wolverian |
(now they're even selling ADSL2 connections with 24mb down and still 1mb up. what the hell?) |
| 20:29 |
gaal |
however, the service is reliable enough and i got a static ip for free. |
| 20:29 |
autarch |
I have 7 down, 896 up |
| 20:29 |
wolverian |
gaal: do you live in sweden? :) |
| 20:29 |
gaal |
nope |
| 20:29 |
autarch |
it's only $80/month with 8 static ips (5 usable) |
| 20:29 |
wolverian |
oh, right, israel? I always forget these things |
| 20:29 |
wolverian |
(countries, pff. who cares?) |
| 20:29 |
gaal |
that's all right, it isn't like i know where you live :-p |
| 20:30 |
autarch |
well, _some_ people care way way too much |
| 20:30 |
wolverian |
autarch: that's a nice bunch of ips :) I only get five. |
| 20:30 |
wolverian |
autarch: what does '5 usable' mean though? |
| 20:30 |
gaal |
subnet? |
| 20:30 |
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| 20:30 |
autarch |
it means I have to allocate one for broadcast, one for network address, and one for the gateway |
| 20:30 |
gaal |
wow, that's a tight netmask |
| 20:30 |
autarch |
so I have 5 left for whatever |
| 20:30 |
wolverian |
ah, right |
| 20:30 |
autarch |
it's pretty cool to be able to have my own little subnet though |
| 20:30 |
gaal |
# /29? :) |
| 20:30 |
autarch |
I dunno, I always type 255.255.255.248 |
| 20:30 |
autarch |
I can't do the math implied by /XX |
| 20:31 |
autarch |
too hard |
| 20:31 |
gaal |
three bits off 32 |
| 20:31 |
autarch |
I'm a fucking music major! |
| 20:31 |
gaal |
lol |
| 20:31 |
autarch |
I can count to like, 12 |
| 20:31 |
gaal |
so you know integer math intuitively |
| 20:31 |
gaal |
and hey, what'll i say |
| 20:31 |
autarch |
no, music requires fractions |
| 20:31 |
autarch |
but not real numbers |
| 20:31 |
autarch |
I mean, you have to be able to figure out 5/3 and stuff like that if you want to be a real badass |
| 20:32 |
gaal |
rhythm, or harmony? |
| 20:32 |
autarch |
rhythm |
| 20:32 |
autarch |
polyrhythms, to be exact |
| 20:32 |
gaal |
scary |
| 20:32 |
gaal |
i mean, great, but scary |
| 20:32 |
* gaal |
puts on foxtrot |
| 20:33 |
gaal |
(9/8) |
| 20:34 |
gaal |
there's a cool bill bruford quote... let's see |
| 20:34 |
autarch |
foxtrot isn't 9/8, is it? |
| 20:34 |
gaal |
"[T]he gig I have as the drummer in King Crimson is one of the few gigs in rock n roll where its even r e m o t e l y possible to play anything in 17/16 and stay in a decent hotel." |
| 20:35 |
gaal |
autrarch, the bit called "apocalypse in 9/8" is :) |
| 20:35 |
autarch |
is this King Crimson? |
| 20:35 |
gaal |
Genesis |
| 20:35 |
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| 20:35 |
autarch |
ah, they don't count |
| 20:36 |
autarch |
early Genesis, I assume |
| 20:36 |
gaal |
the quote was from king crimson's drummer though |
| 20:36 |
gaal |
yes. |
| 20:37 |
autarch |
normally foxtrots are in 4/4, as are the vast majority of dance music (except waltzes) |
| 20:37 |
autarch |
I should say _modern_ dance music |
| 20:37 |
gaal |
most western music is 4/4 no? |
| 20:38 |
autarch |
yes |
| 20:38 |
autarch |
modern western music |
| 20:38 |
gaal |
pictures from an exhibition is all wandery and changes every two bars |
| 20:38 |
osfa |
even most indian music is, surely? |
| 20:38 |
autarch |
no |
| 20:38 |
osfa |
iirc it's in "teental" which is 16 beats, which sounds about 4/4 |
| 20:38 |
autarch |
A heck of a lot of classical Indian music is in 17 |
| 20:38 |
gaal |
dave brubeck liked to play around |
| 20:38 |
autarch |
or is it 19? |
| 20:38 |
autarch |
this is not my area of expertise ;) |
| 20:39 |
osfa |
oh, I did a whole 6 lessons on sitar |
| 20:39 |
osfa |
so I'm highly qualified to talk about it :-) |
| 20:39 |
autarch |
heh |
| 20:39 |
gaal |
i have to study this some. i never told the difference beterrn 4/4 and 8/8 |
| 20:39 |
autarch |
gaal: I've never seen anything actually written as 8/8 |
| 20:39 |
gaal |
is it just when the beat comes? |
| 20:40 |
autarch |
err |
| 20:40 |
gaal |
okay, then 2/2 |
| 20:40 |
Arathorn |
bartok did a bunch of 8/8 stuff |
| 20:40 |
gaal |
or 3/4 vs 6/8 |
| 20:40 |
autarch |
well, the difference is that in one there's 2 beats per bar, and in the other there's 4 |
| 20:40 |
Arathorn |
in order to mix gracefully with 3/8, 5/8, 7/8 etc. |
| 20:40 |
autarch |
6/8 is generally 2 beats per bar |
| 20:40 |
autarch |
2 beats of triplets |
| 20:40 |
autarch |
Arathorn: ah, good point |
| 20:40 |
autarch |
I bet I even have some scores of his with 8/8 times |
| 20:40 |
gaal |
3/8? what's that like? |
| 20:41 |
autarch |
one beat per bar, usually |
| 20:41 |
autarch |
but it really depends on the context |
| 20:41 |
autarch |
see, with bartok it's kind of complicated |
| 20:41 |
Arathorn |
some of his violin duets have the first violin in 3/8 and the 2nd in 5/8 at the same time :) |
| 20:41 |
autarch |
heh |
| 20:41 |
autarch |
the best is George Crumb scores. Lots of 13/64 and stuff like that |
| 20:41 |
gaal |
man, that's like befunge in music. |
| 20:41 |
Arathorn |
(and not just to be obtuse - the weighting of the individual bars does actually make sense) |
| 20:42 |
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| 20:42 |
gaal |
s/befunge/malbogle/ |
| 20:42 |
autarch |
not really |
| 20:42 |
Arathorn |
and the beat itself is in sync - just not the, uh, headers |
| 20:42 |
autarch |
you have to see it |
| 20:42 |
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| 20:42 |
autarch |
if you come over I'll show you ;) |
| 20:43 |
gaal |
i think i'm fine under this table :) |
| 20:43 |
Arathorn |
whilst we're utterly offtopic, i don't suppose anyone is an iptables god? |
| 20:43 |
autarch |
someone probably is, but not me |
| 20:44 |
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| 20:44 |
gaal |
autarch, you're... west coast? |
| 20:45 |
autarch |
Minneapolis |
| 20:46 |
gaal |
north coast! :-) |
| 20:46 |
autarch |
heh |
| 20:46 |
autarch |
I live right near Lake Calhoun ;) |
| 20:46 |
Arathorn |
http://wc.pima.edu/~lsolomon/diss7.htm is a rather fun paper analysing the, uh, geometry of bartok's music, fwiw |
| 20:47 |
cwest |
seen autarch |
| 20:47 |
jabbot |
cwest: autarch was seen 31 seconds ago |
| 20:47 |
autarch |
The last paper I ever wrote in grad school was an analysis of a Bartok string quartet |
| 20:47 |
cwest |
er... |
| 20:47 |
cwest |
seen autrijus |
| 20:47 |
jabbot |
cwest: autrijus was seen 18 hours 1 minutes 10 seconds ago |
| 20:47 |
autarch |
heh |
| 20:47 |
cwest |
but hi, nonetheless :-) |
| 20:47 |
autarch |
hi |
| 20:49 |
gaal |
wow, those signatures look right out of metamagical themas |
| 20:49 |
gaal |
i like how the G clefts were appropriated into Bs :) |
| 20:50 |
cwest |
So there are some very dicey bits to consider when writing a javascript interpreter to run on Perl 5/6 |
| 20:50 |
gaal |
autograph signatures that is, not musical ones |
| 20:50 |
cwest |
Basically JavaScript is too primitive and some guesses have to be made about what to do for certain situations. |
| 20:50 |
stevan |
cwest: Javascript on Perl5?!?!?! |
| 20:50 |
stevan |
whatever for?? |
| 20:50 |
cwest |
Because I can? |
| 20:51 |
stevan |
:) good enough reason |
| 20:51 |
cwest |
Because targetting Perl 5 is easier than Perl 6, at least right now. |
| 20:51 |
cwest |
For me, just because. :-) |
| 20:51 |
cwest |
I was curious, though, if Parse::RecDescent was stable under the use p5: style of things. ;-) |
| 20:51 |
stevan |
so is it pure perl? or are you linking in a C lib? |
| 20:52 |
cwest |
No, I'll just write it. JS is an easy language. |
| 20:52 |
stevan |
cwest: Pugs is all about instability :) |
| 20:52 |
cwest |
hee |
| 20:52 |
gaal |
p:rd is slow :( |
| 20:52 |
stevan |
is this for JSAN? or something else? |
| 20:52 |
cwest |
gaal: Throw One Away |
| 20:52 |
|
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| 20:52 |
cwest |
stevan: It's kind of for jsan. |
| 20:52 |
stevan |
gaal: P:RD + Pugs would be nasty |
| 20:52 |
gaal |
cwest++ # indeed |
| 20:52 |
cwest |
Here's my master plan. |
| 20:53 |
cwest |
I want to get spidermonkey out of mozilla, replace it with parrot. |
| 20:53 |
cwest |
Then we've got client side perl scripting, the holy grail. |
| 20:53 |
stevan |
nice |
| 20:53 |
cwest |
All I have to do is write a rock solid javascript interpreter. |
| 20:53 |
autarch |
I think the only thing keeping me from going crazy at $work is Judy and Mary |
| 20:53 |
cwest |
Then you can distribute the Perl DBI. |
| 20:53 |
Khisanth |
just use IE! |
| 20:53 |
autarch |
thank you, J & M |
| 20:53 |
stevan |
I thought Mozilla already was thinking about using Parrot? |
| 20:53 |
* Khisanth |
runs |
| 20:53 |
gaal |
stevan,not sure p:rd under pugs will take so much of a hit, since it doesn't cross interpreter boundaries much |
| 20:54 |
cwest |
stevan: Yeah but someone has to do the work. |
| 20:54 |
stevan |
ah |
| 20:54 |
stevan |
cwest: and that someone (currently) is you :) |
| 20:54 |
stevan |
cool |
| 20:54 |
cwest |
I want var dbh = connect DBI('dbi:SQLite:cache.db'); |
| 20:54 |
cwest |
hell I want var mime = new Email.MIME(email_string); |
| 20:54 |
gaal |
autarch, w* are J & M? |
| 20:55 |
cwest |
And also I want to be able to smoke test JSAN. |
| 20:55 |
* stevan |
wants system("rm -rf *.*"); from client side JS |
| 20:55 |
autarch |
gaal: a J-pop/rock band |
| 20:55 |
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| 20:55 |
stevan |
cwest: actually we have been thinking about JSAN smoke testing at work |
| 20:55 |
autarch |
it's relentlessly cheery, so it keeps me from going psycho over our shit code/processes/equipment/... |
| 20:55 |
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| 20:55 |
cwest |
stevan: I won't be including Perl's core function into this. ;-) |
| 20:55 |
stevan |
cwest: your no fun :P |
| 20:56 |
cwest |
This is JavaScript. The core is tiny, everything is an object. You should be familiar with that concept. ;-) |
| 20:56 |
robkinyon |
cwest: stevan's trying to pawn my crazy ideas off as his again. :-) |
| 20:56 |
gaal |
interesting |
| 20:56 |
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| 20:56 |
stevan |
cwest: I was a JS hacker before a perl hacker, but my JS knowledge kind of stopped at 1.2 |
| 20:57 |
cwest |
however if you got a user to run: JSAN.use('perl:File.Path'); rmtree(...); |
| 20:57 |
cwest |
I didn't consider that. |
| 20:57 |
cwest |
Oh well. Not My Problem. |
| 20:57 |
gaal |
client-side perl scripting is indeed great - but can we just make the web go away already? :) |
| 20:57 |
cwest |
If I want a fast parser then I'll write it all with regular expressions. |
| 20:58 |
cwest |
I can see this thing loaded with (?{{ foo($^N) }})... |
| 20:58 |
cwest |
That'd be *wonderful*. :-/ |
| 20:58 |
cwest |
Anyway, I have to have a proof of concept by oscon, which means targetting Perl5. |
| 20:59 |
cwest |
If people can play with it then maybe they'll get involved. |
| 20:59 |
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| 20:59 |
stevan |
cwest: what about smoke testing JSAN stuff in browsers? |
| 20:59 |
cwest |
stevan: That's hard. How are you going to control your browsers? |
| 21:00 |
cwest |
How are you going to get dependencies? |
| 21:00 |
* stevan |
wonders if there is maybe a #jsan so we dont bore all the #perl6 folks |
| 21:00 |
cwest |
irc.perl.org/#jsan actually |
| 21:00 |
robkinyon |
don't worry about dependencies |
| 21:00 |
robkinyon |
my bigger concern is running the browsers |
| 21:00 |
cwest |
yeah, that's hard |
| 21:00 |
stevan |
cwest: robkinyon and I were disucss this the other day |
| 21:00 |
cwest |
join #jsan on irc.perl.org |
| 21:00 |
robkinyon |
heading there right now |
| 21:00 |
stevan |
ok, be there in a sec |
| 21:00 |
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| 21:08 |
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| 21:11 |
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| 21:13 |
Arathorn |
ecmascript-on-parrot would also be very cool for the flash community, i guess |
| 21:13 |
* Arathorn |
dreams of scripting flash in perl6 |
| 21:13 |
cwest |
I intend to make it happen. :-) |
| 21:31 |
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| 21:44 |
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| 21:48 |
Limbic_Region |
seen autrijus |
| 21:48 |
jabbot |
Limbic_Region: autrijus was seen 19 hours 2 minutes 29 seconds ago |
| 21:50 |
stevan |
Limbic_Region: I think he is still recovering from jet-lag |
| 21:51 |
Limbic_Region |
no worries - was just going to share my really weird Prelude.hs bug/solution |
| 21:52 |
Limbic_Region |
I journaled it - so I would guess he will catch it |
| 21:55 |
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| 22:06 |
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| 22:17 |
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| 22:19 |
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| 22:19 |
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| 22:19 |
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| 22:23 |
|
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| 22:23 |
Limbic_Region |
fglock - I am still looking |
| 22:24 |
Limbic_Region |
someone with meta commit privs mind reminding me where to assign commit bit to new member? |
| 22:24 |
* Limbic_Region |
thought that there was an admin tab |
| 22:24 |
Limbic_Region |
but there doesn't appear to be one |
| 22:27 |
Limbic_Region |
oh - I see the problem |
| 22:27 |
Limbic_Region |
I am not staying logged in |
| 22:28 |
Limbic_Region |
probably a firewall/browser security problem |
| 22:28 |
Limbic_Region |
be right with you fglock |
| 22:28 |
|
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| 22:28 |
midnightparadox |
when is perl6 coming |
| 22:29 |
Limbic_Region |
it is here now |
| 22:29 |
midnightparadox |
?? |
| 22:29 |
midnightparadox |
how can i install it |
| 22:30 |
Limbic_Region |
visit http://pugscode.org |
| 22:30 |
|
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| 22:31 |
Limbic_Region |
fglock - invite sent - welcome aboard |
| 22:31 |
fglock |
thanks Limbic_Region |
| 22:32 |
* Limbic_Region |
has been having bizarro issues with his firewall since the last patch he applied |
| 22:32 |
Limbic_Region |
sorry for the wait |
| 22:34 |
midnightparadox |
is perl6 development or stable? |
| 22:34 |
obra |
development |
| 22:34 |
PerlJam |
stable development |
| 22:34 |
PerlJam |
:) |
| 22:36 |
revdiablo |
a stable level of insanity |
| 22:36 |
|
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| 22:38 |
Limbic_Region |
midnightparadox - the short answer is that perl6 isn't out yet and there is no date when it can be expected |
| 22:38 |
midnightparadox |
10x |
| 22:38 |
Limbic_Region |
the long answer is much longer |
| 22:39 |
Limbic_Region |
but it is sufficiently advanced to begin implementation which has been going on since 2005-02-01 |
| 22:41 |
|
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| 22:42 |
midnightparadox |
is there relation between Topaz and perl6 |
| 22:42 |
autarch |
sure, chip ;) |
| 22:43 |
midnightparadox |
some say the projects will unite? |
| 22:46 |
|
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| 22:46 |
Arathorn |
i thought topaz was an ex-parrot |
| 22:46 |
Arathorn |
so to speak |
| 22:51 |
Limbic_Region |
midnightparadox - how much do you know about Topaz? |
| 22:51 |
|
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| 22:51 |
midnightparadox |
very very few |
| 22:52 |
midnightparadox |
i am a perl beginner |
| 22:52 |
midnightparadox |
just wondered |
| 22:52 |
Limbic_Region |
ok - well then there isn't much sense in explaining the relationship |
| 22:52 |
midnightparadox |
ok |
| 22:52 |
Limbic_Region |
Topaz was a fun project of re-writing perl in C++ by Chip |
| 22:52 |
Limbic_Region |
he abandoned it got a lot of lessons learned |
| 22:52 |
autarch |
topaz is no longer really a live thing, AFAIK |
| 22:52 |
autarch |
long dead |
| 22:53 |
Limbic_Region |
chip is however the newly appointent architect lead on parrot |
| 22:53 |
midnightparadox |
so then |
| 22:53 |
Limbic_Region |
which will be the virtual machine that runs p6 |
| 22:53 |
midnightparadox |
any ide suggestion for perl |
| 22:53 |
Limbic_Region |
see http://www.parrotcode.org http://www.pugscode.org http://www.poniecode.org for more info |
| 22:54 |
Limbic_Region |
midnightparadox - IDEs for perl are hard |
| 22:54 |
Limbic_Region |
it is said that only perl can parse perl |
| 22:54 |
Limbic_Region |
but |
| 22:54 |
Limbic_Region |
there is hope |
| 22:54 |
midnightparadox |
just coloring the code is enough |
| 22:54 |
Limbic_Region |
then you can use vim |
| 22:54 |
Limbic_Region |
or emacs |
| 22:54 |
Limbic_Region |
http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2005/06/09/ppi.html |
| 22:55 |
Limbic_Region |
PPI will make p5 IDEs that work almost all the time a real possibility |
| 22:55 |
osfa |
though ppi doesn't help you to know, for example |
| 22:55 |
osfa |
my $x = $object->method->othermethod; |
| 22:56 |
osfa |
is. e.g. you won't get intellisense object tree walking with it |
| 22:57 |
|
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| 23:00 |
ImustDIE |
quick syntax question... how do you do references in perl6? |
| 23:01 |
ImustDIE |
and are they always $ like they used to be or would you use @/% for arrays/hashes? |
| 23:01 |
gaal |
i don't think taking a ref has changed. |
| 23:01 |
gaal |
though there are more ways to do it now. |
| 23:02 |
ImustDIE |
k |
| 23:02 |
Limbic_Region |
ImustDIE - the big change isn't in getting a reference but in dereferencing |
| 23:02 |
Limbic_Region |
which will be automatic |
| 23:02 |
ImustDIE |
ah |
| 23:02 |
Limbic_Region |
except when it isn't |
| 23:02 |
ImustDIE |
will? |
| 23:03 |
Limbic_Region |
and when it isn't - you will use . instead of -> |
| 23:03 |
gaal |
?eval my %h = 1 => 2; my $hr = %h; $hr.perl |
| 23:03 |
evalbot6 |
'{(\'1\' => 2)}' |
| 23:03 |
Limbic_Region |
so - $hashref<foo> works |
| 23:03 |
gaal |
(the .perl shouldn't have been there) |
| 23:03 |
Limbic_Region |
but you can explicitly say $hashref.<foo> if you want too |
| 23:03 |
ImustDIE |
what do you mean will though? does pugs not automatically deref yet? |
| 23:03 |
gaal |
it does. |
| 23:04 |
Limbic_Region |
ImustDIE - pugs does when it is supposed to |
| 23:04 |
gaal |
?eval my %h = 1 => 2; my $hr = %h; say $hr<1> |
| 23:04 |
evalbot6 |
Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&say" |
| 23:04 |
Limbic_Region |
the cases where it doesn't are still fuzzy |
| 23:04 |
gaal |
my %h = 1 => 2; my $hr = %h; $hr<1> |
| 23:04 |
ImustDIE |
k |
| 23:04 |
Limbic_Region |
ie edge cases are still being worked out |
| 23:04 |
gaal |
?eval my %h = 1 => 2; my $hr = %h; say $hr<1> |
| 23:04 |
evalbot6 |
Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&say" |
| 23:04 |
gaal |
grrr! |
| 23:04 |
ImustDIE |
alright time to go play with some code ;-) thanks for the help |
| 23:04 |
gaal |
?eval my %h = 1 => 2; my $hr = %h; $hr<1> |
| 23:04 |
evalbot6 |
\2 |
| 23:04 |
gaal |
thank you, fingers! |
| 23:06 |
Limbic_Region |
it looks like leo has made significant progress on calling convention changes to parrot but commited it in a new branch |
| 23:06 |
Limbic_Region |
good news |
| 23:06 |
mugwump |
?eval safe_say "hello" |
| 23:06 |
evalbot6 |
Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&safe_say" |
| 23:07 |
mugwump |
?eval say_safe "hello" |
| 23:07 |
evalbot6 |
Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&say_safe" |
| 23:08 |
|
midnightparadox has left "May The Source Be With You" |
| 23:08 |
ImustDIE |
oh got one more Q, then I promise I'll leave you alone for a while.... how do you add a method to an existing class? |
| 23:08 |
Limbic_Region |
?eval say 'wtf' |
| 23:08 |
evalbot6 |
Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&say" |
| 23:08 |
ImustDIE |
if there's a manual i should be finding this stuff in just yell at me to read it but i havent been able to find much |
| 23:10 |
Limbic_Region |
ImustDIE - have you got your bible handy? |
| 23:10 |
Limbic_Region |
Perl6::Bible that is |
| 23:10 |
ImustDIE |
i was browsing it on cpan, is there an easy way to search it? |
| 23:10 |
|
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| 23:11 |
ImustDIE |
ah i found the section on objects |
| 23:13 |
|
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| 23:17 |
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| 23:17 |
Limbic_Region |
ImustDIE - getting the table of contents is easy |
| 23:17 |
Limbic_Region |
which gives a summary of what each chapter is |
| 23:17 |
Limbic_Region |
in fact, it follows the "Programming Perl" (also known as the Camel Book) |
| 23:17 |
Limbic_Region |
doing a keyword search isn't quite as easy |
| 23:18 |
Limbic_Region |
if you have a *nix like environment you can grep the source easy enough though |
| 23:19 |
ImustDIE |
yeah, my fault, i just completely missed the table of contents and was blindly poking around |
| 23:19 |
Arathorn |
i really wish that S29 was more tied down |
| 23:19 |
mugwump |
Arathorn: so tie it down! |
| 23:20 |
Arathorn |
i really don't feel qualified :/ |
| 23:20 |
Limbic_Region |
well - let someone more qualified bitch slap you when you screw up |
| 23:20 |
Arathorn |
and moreover surely it should be architected by a single person rather than wiki-flinging-stylee? |
| 23:20 |
Limbic_Region |
but until then - drive on |
| 23:20 |
Limbic_Region |
no Arathon |
| 23:20 |
Limbic_Region |
err - Arathorn even |
| 23:20 |
Limbic_Region |
are you on the p6.language list |
| 23:20 |
|
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| 23:20 |
Limbic_Region |
I bitched about this very thing not too long ago |
| 23:21 |
Arathorn |
i lurk there |
| 23:21 |
Limbic_Region |
the design documents need to be opened up to the general public for the purposes of expedition |
| 23:21 |
Arathorn |
i agree wholeheartedly with the wiki-anarchic development for implementation - but not design |
| 23:21 |
Limbic_Region |
well - the design docs are under revision control |
| 23:21 |
Arathorn |
where a million monkeys (especially ones as low down the evolutionary ladder as I) aren't necessarily going to manage to write Hamlet :/ |
| 23:21 |
Limbic_Region |
anyone can submit patches |
| 23:21 |
Limbic_Region |
but commits are restricted to @larry |
| 23:22 |
Limbic_Region |
well - specifically pmichaud since he volunteered to be moderator |
| 23:22 |
* Limbic_Region |
tries to find the thread on google groups |
| 23:22 |
* Arathorn |
nods |
| 23:22 |
revdiablo |
Arathorn: well, the thing is, a lot of discussion goes on on p6l, but doesn't get documented |
| 23:23 |
revdiablo |
Arathorn: so if those million monkeys were following p6l, and submitting patches according to what they saw discussed... it would probably be helpful |
| 23:24 |
Arathorn |
well, if it's a matter of trying to document the current state of banter on p6l, that's obviously a different matter from just chucking in your personal opinion of what your favourite function prototypes should look like |
| 23:24 |
revdiablo |
Arathorn: I don't think anyone is suggesting the latter (at least I hope not) |
| 23:24 |
* Arathorn |
nods. |
| 23:26 |
Arathorn |
just a shame that there's not scope to balance the builtins-implementation in the way that Larry hath mediated the linguistics of the language itself |
| 23:26 |
Limbic_Region |
Arathorn - here you go |
| 23:26 |
Limbic_Region |
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/perl.perl6.language/browse_thread/thread/3ac8a1047b4608a9/e24c6a984b53aa6e?q=State+of+Design+Doc&rnum=1&hl=en#e24c6a984b53aa6e |
| 23:27 |
Limbic_Region |
that sums up my feelings on the matter as well as the process to get changes to the documents that you want |
| 23:27 |
Arathorn |
ah, i remember reading that thread now |
| 23:27 |
* Arathorn |
reparses |
| 23:28 |
Arathorn |
i wonder why everyone (including me) isn't leaping in throwing patches at him, then |
| 23:28 |
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| 23:28 |
Arathorn |
whilst theoretically it sounds like it should work fine - in practice it doesn't seem to be 100% there... |
| 23:28 |
Limbic_Region |
well - you see why I stopped |
| 23:28 |
Limbic_Region |
I asked a question |
| 23:28 |
Limbic_Region |
and instead of getting an answer |
| 23:29 |
Limbic_Region |
the thread spun off on a tangent |
| 23:29 |
Limbic_Region |
despite my best effort to keep it on track and not get warnocked |
| 23:29 |
Limbic_Region |
it is hard to fill out an outline if there is no reference material other than that which is in people's heads |
| 23:29 |
* Arathorn |
nods. |
| 23:29 |
* Limbic_Region |
wanders off |
| 23:31 |
|
nnunley has quit IRC ("This computer has gone to sleep") |
| 23:31 |
* Limbic_Region |
wanders back in |
| 23:32 |
* nothingmuch |
goes to the shower |
| 23:32 |
nothingmuch |
jet lag has fucked me up... I can't wake up till noon, can't fall asleep till 4 |
| 23:33 |
* Khisanth |
votes for performing a mind-rip on those people :) |
| 23:33 |
mugwump |
nothingmuch: get some 5-HTP or Melatonin, take at 11pm localtime |
| 23:33 |
mugwump |
(sleep hormone) |
| 23:33 |
nothingmuch |
i have some japanese mushrooms which I'm trying today |
| 23:33 |
mugwump |
or eat foods with lots of Tryptophan |
| 23:33 |
nothingmuch |
worst case scenario - vivid dreams |
| 23:34 |
mugwump |
japanese mushrooms? what type? |
| 23:34 |
nothingmuch |
one sec |
| 23:35 |
Limbic_Region |
Melatonin isn't a sleep hormone AFAIK |
| 23:35 |
Limbic_Region |
though it is used to "reset" jet lag |
| 23:36 |
nothingmuch |
shitake |
| 23:37 |
mugwump |
interesting ... might have to look that up in a Materia Medica to see how that works |
| 23:38 |
Limbic_Region |
layman's version - it is sunlight related hormone that tells your body when it should be sleeping - taking it artificially is like a soft-reboot |
| 23:39 |
clkao |
.win156 |
| 23:39 |
Limbic_Region |
so earlier I should have said I believe it is a sleep related hormone |
| 23:39 |
mugwump |
sure Limbic_Region, but it usually resets the circadian rhythm within a day or two |
| 23:40 |
mugwump |
it plays a crucial part in dreaming, too. gets converted to DMT inside your brain (yep, you're trippin' while you sleep!) |
| 23:40 |
* nothingmuch |
thinks he needs chronic treatment with it =) |
| 23:40 |
* Limbic_Region |
wonders if he is alone in always knowing he is dreaming when he is dreaming |
| 23:40 |
nothingmuch |
or more importantly, maybe reassess diet to figure out if something is blocking it |
| 23:40 |
mugwump |
actually the best advice is to get some acupuncture from a "real" doctor (not a GP ;)) |
| 23:41 |
nothingmuch |
Limbic_Region: i know for about 90% dreams |
| 23:41 |
wolverian |
mugwump: er, are you sure about that? I know that the pineal gland produces DMT by itself, but is melatonin converted to it? |
| 23:41 |
wolverian |
(pineal gland being the organ that produces melatonin and trace amounts of DTM) |
| 23:41 |
wolverian |
er, DMT. |
| 23:41 |
wolverian |
(I should sleep too. :) |
| 23:42 |
mugwump |
well wolverian, it's a difficult area of science to be sure of truths as the live brain is hard to study chemically. but I believe that the chemical pathway from Tryptophan -> 5-Hydroxy-tryptophan -> melatonin -> Di-Methyl-Tryptophan is demonstrated to be likely |
| 23:43 |
mugwump |
http://www.pharmacorama.com/en/Sections/Serotonin_2_1.php |
| 23:44 |
Limbic_Region |
nothingmuch - out of curiosity, to what degree do you manipulate your dreams because you know you are dreaming (on average) |
| 23:44 |
nothingmuch |
not much |
| 23:44 |
nothingmuch |
sometimes i have a weird sense of preknowlege of an event |
| 23:44 |
nothingmuch |
that is, a small image or symbol |
| 23:45 |
Arathorn |
. o O ( perl6 does lucid dreaming, film at 11 ) |
| 23:45 |
nothingmuch |
and by just thinking up an association it becomes "true" in the dream as the plot progresses |
| 23:45 |
Limbic_Region |
hmmm |
| 23:45 |
nothingmuch |
and I know I'm doing it |
| 23:45 |
* Limbic_Region |
should consider joining a dream study thingy |
| 23:45 |
nothingmuch |
but aside from that there is no real "control" |
| 23:45 |
mugwump |
Arathorn: :) |
| 23:45 |
* Limbic_Region |
has very unique dreams from what he can tell |
| 23:45 |
nothingmuch |
what are they like? |
| 23:45 |
Limbic_Region |
well - that would take quite a bit and this is #perl6 afterall |
| 23:46 |
* Khisanth |
thinks Limbic_Region should start working on perl6 in his dreams :) |
| 23:46 |
Limbic_Region |
but in synopsis - I know I am dreaming always and most of the time take an active concious role in them |
| 23:46 |
Limbic_Region |
Khisanth - there's a catch-22 |
| 23:46 |
* Arathorn |
once wrote code whilst sleepwalking |
| 23:47 |
Limbic_Region |
if I don't stop hacking/thinking seriously at least 3 hours prior to bed time - I won't be able to go to sleep at all |
| 23:47 |
Limbic_Region |
or rather - not dream level sleep |
| 23:47 |
Arathorn |
about 15k lines of C - all complete and utter gibberish |
| 23:47 |
nothingmuch |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene |
| 23:47 |
Arathorn |
about 7 lines of one function, another 5 lines of another, all completely mangled together |
| 23:48 |
Arathorn |
(i hope someone's keeping an eye on autrijus' commits over the last week or so ;D) |
| 23:48 |
nothingmuch |
Limbic_Region: i do feel like a protagonist - i do things in the dream, but it's like the real world, in the sense that shit happens to me |
| 23:48 |
nothingmuch |
there are rare exceptions where I feel slow, or falling, or something like that |
| 23:48 |
nothingmuch |
in a way that is usually very uncomfortable, but not much more |
| 23:49 |
nothingmuch |
but I'm still an active me |
| 23:49 |
Limbic_Region |
nothingmuch - the funnest dreams are when I am in a movie theatre - the dream is on the screen. Sometimes in order to help the plot - the narrator will say "meanwhile ..." and switch to another scene happening at the same "time" but in a different place. I fast forward through the boring parts |
| 23:49 |
nothingmuch |
hah |
| 23:50 |
mugwump |
That's a Stuart Wilde device, isn't it? |
| 23:50 |
mugwump |
(the dream theatre) |
| 23:50 |
nothingmuch |
i think the fast forward bit doesn't apply to me - my dreams are never ever boring |
| 23:50 |
Limbic_Region |
if I don't like the movie or I am more interested in something that the director has chosen not to show - I fly into the movie and become part of it |
| 23:51 |
Limbic_Region |
knowing that I am dreaming shocks some of the other actors though - I don't fall down and play dead when shot |
| 23:52 |
Limbic_Region |
anyway - the movie theatre is only 1 style of dream that I have - the others are just as interesting (to me anyway) |
| 23:52 |
Limbic_Region |
on that note - I am off to numb the mind (watch tv) so I can sleep tonight |
| 23:52 |
Limbic_Region |
TTFN all |
| 23:52 |
|
Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("tiuq\") |
