Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-07-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
00:00 svnbot6 r5380, mugwump++ | Implement the variety of round-like functions (doesn't work - currently commented out)
00:02 nothingmuch *sigh
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00:09 Maddingue has joined #perl6
00:09 mugwump heck, I've got a sub that works interactively in pugs, but when placed in a test script makes pugs bizarrely expect an extra } at the end of file
00:09 nothingmuch runFile is soooooooo slloooooooowwwww
00:10 mugwump ?eval sub r($n) { ($n<0) ?? int($n-0.5) :: int($n+0.5) }; [ r(0.5), r(0.4), r(-0.5), r(-0.4) ]
00:10 evalbot6 [1, 0, -1, 0]
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00:10 nothingmuch hmm
00:10 * nothingmuch is begining to be skeptical
00:10 nothingmuch about env
00:11 nothingmuch autrijus: backlog marker
00:11 nothingmuch i think envBody should be like the lexical env
00:11 nothingmuch containing the AST
00:11 nothingmuch but also outer, pos, lexical variables, etc
00:11 nothingmuch and the 'normal' env should be the dynamic scope only
00:12 nothingmuch anyway, goto was fixed
00:12 nothingmuch envPos was not carried over
00:13 svnbot6 r5381, nothingmuch++ | Fix goto borkedness - pos was not carried over from caller env
00:14 nothingmuch . o O ( we have more test cases than we've got revisions )
00:19 putter any thoughts on how I can get from a Rational (ie, Ratio Integer) to a Double?  there is fromRational, and then...?
00:20 nothingmuch putter: hoogle is your friend
00:21 mugwump ?eval $?PUGS_VERSION
00:21 evalbot6 \'Perl6 User\'s Golfing System, version 6.2.7, June 13, 2005 (r5381)'
00:21 nothingmuch fromRat, i would think
00:21 nothingmuch in Numeric
00:21 nothingmuch http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~ndm/hoogle/
00:21 nothingmuch search for Rational Double
00:22 nothingmuch specificallly this: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~ndm/hoogle/generated/Numeric.f.fromRat.htm
00:22 putter yay, it looks like this did it... ((fromRational r)::Double)
00:22 * putter looks at hoogle...
00:22 nothingmuch ah, the inferencer doesn't know if you meant a double or float?
00:23 nothingmuch ah, :i Fractional says Double and Float are also instances of Fractional
00:23 nothingmuch so fromRat is silly
00:24 mugwump ?eval my $a = { <1 2 3 4 5 6> }; $a<1 ?? "foo" :: "bar"; #>
00:24 evalbot6 [undef, undef, undef, undef, undef, undef]
00:24 putter nothingmuch: yes, I think that was it.
00:24 mugwump ?eval my $a = { <1 2 3 4 5 6> }; $a < 1 ?? "foo" :: "bar"; #>
00:24 evalbot6 Error: cannot cast from VCode (MkCode {isMulti = False, subName = "<anon>", subType = SubBlock, subEnv = Just (MkEnv {envContext = CxtItem (mkType "(mkType "Scalar")"), envLValue = False, envLexical = MkPad (padToList [("$?1",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$_",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$a",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$code",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$lang",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("%_",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("&?BLOCK_EXIT",[(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,
00:24 putter hoogle should go in some doc somewhere...
00:24 nothingmuch anywho, i ought to sleep
00:25 nothingmuch USETHEM
00:25 nothingmuch ;-)
00:26 putter :)
00:26 putter 'night
00:27 nothingmuch is(("a\b" ~~ rx:P5/a\\b/ && $<>), "a\b", 're_tests 205/0 (239)', :todo<bug>);
00:27 nothingmuch that's not right, is it?
00:28 nothingmuch \b is bell or backspace (i forget)
00:28 nothingmuch and \\b is backslash b
00:28 Khisanth neither
00:28 Khisanth \b is \w on one side and \W on the other
00:28 nothingmuch no, not in a regex, in a string
00:28 * nothingmuch knows his zero-width-assertions
00:28 nothingmuch gotta love em
00:29 Khisanth bell is \a
00:29 nothingmuch right
00:29 nothingmuch hmm
00:29 nothingmuch in pugs saying "a\b" doesn't work at all
00:29 putter nothingmuch: how would you (one line) describe hoogle...?
00:30 nothingmuch putter: cross index of std haskell libs... searchable by type signature, name, etc
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00:33 putter tnx
00:38 putter re "a\b", weird.  hey, in perl6, let's not follow perl5's example of "you are trying to find \b in the man pages, wuaaaahahahaha".
00:38 svnbot6 r5382, putter++ | In hack.pod, added a link to hoogle.  nothingmuch++
00:39 putter Oh.  \b is backspace.  that makes sense.
00:41 putter ?eval ("a\b" ~~ rx:perl5/a\b/).chars
00:41 evalbot6 1
00:42 putter My fuzzy recollection is there is code to escape \mumble before handing it off to the rx engine.  Perhaps \b isnt done.
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00:42 Khisanth ?eval ("a\b" ~~ rx:perl5/a\x8/).chars
00:42 evalbot6 2
00:44 stevan Guten Abend mein Damen und Herren :)
00:45 mugwump wie gehts, mein freund?
00:45 meppl has quit IRC ("quit")
00:45 stevan nadda mucho amigo
00:45 stevan und du?
00:46 stevan mugwump: I added the ability for things like 'Dog-0.0.1-cpan:JRANDOM'->new() to the metamodel today
00:46 mugwump das Spiel aufpassen, eine Bier essend
00:46 stevan but shortly after I was questioning that
00:47 stevan (ok, we have reached the end of my German vocabulary, at this point, all I have left is curse words :)
00:47 mugwump Babelfish++
00:47 stevan :D
00:49 mugwump that's great.  hey, I think that stuff I was trying to hardwire into the metamodel will actually be an interesting case of a module that alters the metamodel
00:49 mugwump ie, the "companion" relationships... like automatic doubly-linked lists
00:50 mugwump so, you'd go:
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00:51 mugwump class Node { has @.children is double_linked(:to<parents>); has @.parents is double_linked(:to<children>) }
00:52 stevan how would that work exactly?
00:53 mugwump glad you asked :)
00:53 stevan I am not sure I understand the is double_linked
00:53 stevan I mean I understand what you are doing (recursive datatypes), but...
00:56 mugwump so, double_linked would make the Node.children accessor a Proxy method via the MetaModel
00:56 mugwump The Proxy method would do set operations to determine "changed" values by an array operation
00:56 mugwump (ie, missing/new members)
00:57 mugwump Then send messages to those nodes that they need to add/remove $?SELF to/from their @.parents
00:58 stevan this is for some kind of Tree data structure?
00:59 mugwump they might be on different classes, too;
00:59 mugwump class Account { has Transaction @.transactions is double_linked(:to<account>) }; class Transaction { has Account $.account is double_linked(:to<transactions>) }
01:01 stevan ahh, I see
01:01 mugwump So, attribute accessors themselves have "messages" sent to them depending on the context they are used
01:02 mugwump ie, a "proxy" accessor is defined as;
01:02 mugwump method attribute is accessor( :STORE{ ... }, :FETCH{ ... } );
01:03 stevan nice
01:03 mugwump (see also t/oo/attributes/mutators.t)
01:03 stevan have you proposed that on p6l?
01:03 mugwump yes, Luke liked it
01:04 mugwump status is "tentatively not entirely disapproved of by all(@Larry)"
01:05 mugwump However, when you use a subscript operator on an attribute, it needs a different accessor quasi-method to be called;
01:05 mugwump $object.attribute<val>  # :HASHLOOKUP ?
01:05 mugwump $object.attribute{"val"}  # :HASHLOOKUP ?
01:05 mugwump $object.attribute[123]  # :ARRAYLOOKUP ?
01:07 mugwump In Class::Tangram, I handle this with a calling convention for attributes considered "containers" - ref, set, array, hash
01:08 mugwump eg, you'd call $object.attribute("val"); to lookup - this would be an array or hash deref, depending on the type of "val"
01:10 mugwump For example, a property that is an ordered hash would respond to both styles of accessing
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01:14 mugwump either that, or there is a general :OBJECTREF { ... } quasi-method, that returns a Proxy object which is responsible for responding to the post_circumfix:«<>», etc methods
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01:17 mugwump See also http://search.cpan.org/dist/Class-Tangram/lib/Class/Tangram/Containers.pod for the rest of the information about the container calling convention stuff
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01:18 stevan this is interesting
01:18 stevan definitely not for the newbie :)
01:19 stevan I do like the proxy idea though
01:19 mugwump proxy objects are specced already
01:19 stevan on a very very basic level, it seems like you are adding the ability to do more sophisticated accessor/mutators through the metamodel
01:20 stevan yes, but proxy in the object space is less specced/thought out it seems
01:20 stevan the Proxy stuff I have seen is all related to lvalues
01:20 mugwump sure.  perhaps I'll have to write S14 to flesh this out
01:21 stevan but I have to run for now, I will check it out on p6l though
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01:26 svnbot6 r5383, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel - adding a test for some examples in A12; nothing much else :)
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01:47 svnbot6 r5384, putter++ | * Moved sprintf and Scalar::as to Prelude.pm from Prim.hs.  They now correctly handle variously typed arguments.  Un-todo-ed 2 tests.  Removed a bogus test.
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01:54 svnbot6 r5385, mugwump++ | Add a few more tests to rounding tests, and make tests pass by adding to Prelude.pm
01:59 putter mugwump: I got floor and friends to typecheck.  Waiting on a compile to see if they actually work.  Does the Prelude.pm stuff obsolete the Prim.hs stuff?
01:59 autarch putter: I don't think so.  Isn't it much slower if it's done in the prelude?
02:00 mugwump not these days
02:00 mugwump I'm ambivalent to which is used...
02:00 * mugwump & # meeting
02:00 putter seems to work... hmm... &
02:02 autarch if prelude isn't slower, it makes sense to write in the prelude for accessibility
02:04 putter I'll put them in Pugs::Internals, and they can be used or moved as desired.
02:08 autrijus as of today, prelude isn't slower anymore; migrating composite primitives and new primitives to Prelude.pm makes a lots of sense.
02:08 svnbot6 r5386, autrijus++ | * add `is builtin`, `is primitive`, `is safe` etc to
02:08 svnbot6 r5386, autrijus++ |   new prelude functions.  also added Prelude authoring
02:08 svnbot6 r5386, autrijus++ |   guide at the top of Prelude.pm -- please help save
02:08 svnbot6 r5386, autrijus++ |   the world and make PIR generation possible again.
02:08 autrijus but please see the doc chunk in top of Prelude.pm, so we can keep PIR (and eventually P5) happy
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02:12 autrijus I need to run to get my laptop repaired... bbl
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02:13 autrijus will read the backlog on taxi... stevan++ putte++ mugwump++ geoffb++ gaal++ nothingmuch++
02:13 svnbot6 r5387, putter++ | Finished haskell versions of floor,ceiling,round,truncate. mugwump++.  Given the new r5385 Prelude.pm versions, I dropped them in Pugs::Internals.  These two need to be syncronized with Emit/PIR.hs.
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02:15 putter I just love pugs development... "I need to run to get my laptop repaired...[...]  will read the backlog on taxi..." :)
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02:18 putter a slight cautionary note on Prelude.pm... compiling Pugs.Run seems to be taking rather longer than it used to.  perhaps unrelated.  or my imagination.
02:19 mugwump 2min on my system
02:19 mugwump which is a fairly long debug cycle...
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02:37 svnbot6 r5388, mugwump++ | Make otherwise condition a failure, not silently returning 0 ;)
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02:46 putter Am I correct in my impression that, PIR aside, all prelude regressions are now fixed?
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02:46 putter s/prelude/compiled prelude/
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03:11 svnbot6 r5389, putter++ | Fixed failing t/oo/class/basic.t test.
03:12 putter Err, in Parser.hs, why is "class" handled by both ruleClassDeclaration and ruleModuleDeclaration?
03:20 putter attempting consolidation...
03:29 * mugwump lols at "Please - listen to me. I'm an expert on IDS. I know whereof I speak."
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03:39 putter err, which IDS?
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03:49 autrijus rehi lambdacamels
03:49 autrijus putter: your impression agrees with mine.
03:50 autrijus I'm attempting to fix pir compilation now
03:59 putter ok.  I'm testing a merged ruleModuleDeclaration.
04:00 putter Note to self: always have two projects going, so you can fiddle with one while the other compiles/tests.
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04:10 svnbot6 r5390, Stevan++ | Perl6-MetaModel
04:10 svnbot6 r5390, Stevan++ | * adding support for "is ro" and "is rw" with regard to accessor/mutator generation
04:10 svnbot6 r5390, Stevan++ |   NOTE: this does not affect the underlying container type of the attribute (not sure how that would be handled yet)
04:10 svnbot6 r5390, Stevan++ | * default is now 'ro' and not 'rw'
04:10 svnbot6 r5390, Stevan++ | * updated all the tests to reflect this new default
04:10 svnbot6 r5390, Stevan++ | * unified some the handling of meta-info for attributes
04:12 gaal_ morning
04:12 gaal_ putter: Run.hs is slow to compile in the second pass now because it #includes the -CPugs output of the prelude
04:13 autrijus but that tradeoff is quite worth it
04:13 autrijus the only annoying thing is that it insist on rebuilding during "make ; make"
04:14 gaal_ autrijus: i noticed that `pugs -CPugs Test.pm` emits stuff for the prelude too. i understand why it does that of course, but i'm not sure that it should.
04:14 autrijus gaal_: it should not
04:14 autrijus gaal_: look, the thing is in userDefined
04:15 autrijus the problem is on genprelude
04:15 autrijus    open my $pc, "$Config{pugs} -CPugs $Config{inline} |" or die "open: $!";
04:15 autrijus we want it to emit prelude code
04:15 autrijus whilst in all other cases
04:15 autrijus we do not.
04:15 gaal_ autrijus, re `make;make` yes indeed, but unless we break #include "PreludePC" into separate .hs modules that'd be hard to fix
04:15 autrijus so try to think something :)
04:15 autrijus maybe setting a special env during gengprelude
04:16 autrijus and activate bypass if -C and without that env?
04:16 autrijus am I making any sense to you?
04:16 gaal_ yes, i understand this problem.
04:16 gaal_ and your proposale
04:16 gaal_ s/e$//
04:16 gaal_ originally i wanted to add an undocumented comdline arg
04:17 gaal_ since that would also allow us to avoid the hacky haskell munger filter
04:19 gaal_ ie have another function in Pugs.Compile.Pugs that doesn't say MainCC etc.
04:19 gaal_ excuse the typos this espresso is only 30% drunk
04:20 gaal_ is now known as gaal
04:22 gaal i was about to say that we can use kwid now in Prelude but i see you beat me to it. :)
04:25 gaal we should invent a trait for the prelude: is pure. it doesn't do anything (maybe it should be a documentation convention instead of a trait) -- except indicate that this builtin is implemented completely in the prelude. that way it'll be easier to separate pugs-specific implementation from things that should work in another implementation. this is.. not very urgent. :)
04:27 gaal shouldn't the new Num:: functions go in a class instead of being declared fully-qualified?
04:35 autrijus yeah
04:35 autrijus please go ahead
04:37 ingy hola
04:37 * putter notices the phrase "make;make" went by... if "unoptimized" gets lost in the process, the compile time on Pugs.Run would be unsurprising...
04:39 autarch hi, ingy
04:39 mugwump gaal: the reason I did that, is that I had invocant count mismatch problems with: class Num { method floor { } }
04:40 gaal putter no, the second pass Run is very long -- see PreludePC.hs
04:40 gaal mugwump - okay, i'll not ci now
04:40 ingy autarch: hey, what you doing here?
04:40 mugwump well, if you can get it to pass be my guest gaal ;)
04:40 gaal have to leave for $work - have at it
04:41 gaal :)
04:41 gaal see you later. &
04:41 * mugwump waves
04:41 putter gaal: ah well.  &
04:41 autarch autarch: uh, talking about perl6, mostly
04:41 autarch and pugs
04:42 * putter dev cycle is now 5+ minutes. :(
04:42 ingy converting DateTime?
04:42 autarch yeah
04:42 autarch not so much converting as rewriting, really
04:42 ingy sounds like a barrel of fun
04:43 putter hi, ingy
04:43 ingy fyi I think I have a totally workable wysiwyg solution for work
04:43 ingy hi putter
04:43 ingy how's the life of pugs?
04:44 ingy putter: I'm thinking of rewriting Inline for Perl5
04:44 ingy are you still on that mailing list?>
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04:50 mugwump hey does anyone know if there has been a Ruling on tuple return types?  eg sub divmod(Num, Num) returns (Int, Num) ?
04:52 putter ingy: having a number of smaller classes could be neat
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05:03 putter ingy: not on mailing-list, I don't think.
05:05 putter weary sigh.  Is there some way to say "dont precompile the prelude"?
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05:05 * mugwump feels putter's pain
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05:07 * putter is having flashbacks of using punchcards
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05:08 * mugwump suggests changing the Prelude.pm to a stub that loads the real Prelude.pm at runtime for Prelude hacking
05:11 putter good idea.  tnx.  almost time to put brain to bed.
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05:16 chromatic Is it preflight time?
05:20 autrijus chromatic: no, not yet, I'm still fixing PIR
05:20 svnbot6 r5391, autrijus++ | * zeroth proofreading of ChangeLog
05:20 svnbot6 r5392, autrijus++ | * minor textual fix to hack.pod
05:20 svnbot6 r5393, autrijus++ | * rename "translate" to "codegen"
05:20 putter perhaps not quite.  -BPIR is broken.  plus I fuzzily remember there were some other regressions
05:21 chromatic Test::Builder has one weird one related to functions with the same name in different packages.
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05:25 autrijus both exported?
05:25 svnbot6 r5394, autrijus++ | * in gen_prelude, use IPC::Open2 to avoid the dreaded whitespace bug.
05:26 chromatic No, I don't believe so.
05:26 autrijus ok. which test is this?
05:26 chromatic t/010_Test_Builder.t in ext/Test-Builder/
05:27 chromatic Test exports plan, which the file uses, but the error message is of a parameter mismatch with Test::Builder::plan.
05:27 autrijus ext/Test-Builder/lib/Test/Builder.pm:  sub plan (Str ?$explanation, Int ?$tests) is export {
05:27 autrijus well.
05:27 chromatic Weird, where'd that come from?
05:28 joepurl_ has joined #perl6
05:28 chromatic Wait, that's in the POD.
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05:28 autrijus oh.
05:28 chromatic Can't fool me... for long!
05:30 autrijus that is weirdo indeed.
05:30 chromatic Is there some namespace switching not happening?
05:30 chromatic Or did the export trait parsing change recently?
05:30 autrijus no the export thing should work fine
05:30 autrijus $?PACKAGE says we're in main
05:30 autrijus so curiouser and curiouser
05:31 autrijus if you import TBP and not Test then it fails to find &plan
05:31 autrijus which is correct
05:31 chromatic I just switched the order of the use statements to put use Test last and it worked for a while.
05:31 autrijus define `for a while`
05:31 chromatic Now it fails to find open().
05:31 chromatic On line 46.
05:32 autrijus hm. very weird. ok, i'll color it as a showstopper, but I need to work on pir first
05:32 autrijus if you'd like to minimise it I'd be much grateful
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05:32 chromatic It's a showstopper for claiming full OO support, but so is the DESTROY thing still open.  I don't mind if it doesn't block the next release.
05:33 joepurl has joined #perl6
05:35 autrijus full OO support is for 6.28.0 and pends on metamodel incl. roles
05:35 putter I should have a slight oo improvement in as soon as a make test finishes.
05:36 chromatic Alright, alright, I'll break stevan's stuff for a while then.
05:37 autrijus cool. I need to run for $work, bbiab
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05:47 putter patch in.  goodnight all. &
05:47 putter has quit IRC ("Leaving")
05:47 svnbot6 r5395, qtplatypus++ | Implementing trans
05:47 svnbot6 r5396, putter++ | Improved parsing of packages (modules, classes, etc).  Some tests need to be un-todo-ed.
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17:10 ilogger starts logging #perl6 at Mon Jul 11 17:10:24 2005
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17:12 gaal anyone else getting this error?   :
17:12 gaal Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&Test::test_ends"
17:12 svnbot6 r5435, fglock++ | implemented DateTime::Span
17:12 gaal when using prove
17:12 nothingmuch gaal: i need a new ISP.. got any reccomendations, for cheapo business accts?
17:12 nothingmuch static IP a must
17:12 nothingmuch dhcp a plus
17:12 gaal nothinmuch, i like actcom, but well...
17:12 gaal you know that
17:12 nothingmuch they never replied to my inquiries
17:12 nothingmuch i tried to get a price quote 3 times
17:12 nothingmuch i'll try again
17:13 gaal 1-800-300-123x1
17:13 nothingmuch i'm getting sick of NV
17:13 nothingmuch the connection drops all the time
17:13 gaal actually x3, you need customer service
17:13 gaal NV used to be great, but then they went the way of the corporate.
17:13 nothingmuch the problem is that i'm right in the middle
17:13 nothingmuch i'm a coporate client, supposedly
17:13 nothingmuch but I'm not big money
17:14 nothingmuch i get supposedly better service
17:14 nothingmuch but I get the butt end of that market share
17:14 nothingmuch so I actually get the worst service of all
17:14 nothingmuch while all I really wanted was reliability.
17:14 gaal i'd try actcom. really, they are very clueful and nice. not the cheapest but not cutthroats either.
17:15 gaal plus: haggle.
17:15 nothingmuch i used to be with them
17:15 nothingmuch yeah
17:15 nothingmuch ook
17:15 gaal so, you're not getting that error?
17:15 nothingmuch wait, lemme backlog
17:15 nothingmuch no
17:15 nothingmuch but autrijus played with END a while ago
17:15 nothingmuch my pugs might be out of date
17:16 justatheory has quit IRC ()
17:16 nothingmuch i've been trying to hack MMD mishmash
17:16 nothingmuch make DateTime pass it's test suite
17:16 nothingmuch the sort order of variadic arguments is bad
17:17 gaal how much does a medium sized whiteboard cost? i want one for the hackathon
17:17 nothingmuch i'd say 100-200NIS
17:17 nothingmuch i'll chip in
17:17 gaal i'll see if i can borrow one from work :)
17:18 nothingmuch http://www.officedepot.co.il/(jthxkk204a1ab5qonqztgn55)/searchHierarchyResults.aspx?searchString=לוח&searchSelectedDivision=00&divisionID=14&categoryID=1403&subCategoryID=1403004&familyID=&hierarchy=SUBCATEGORY
17:18 gaal since i don't  need it afterwards.
17:19 nothingmuch 60x80cm is 120 NIS
17:19 nothingmuch wait, there's one at 880
17:19 nothingmuch 80
17:19 nothingmuch these are cheap and big: http://www.officedepot.co.il/(jthxkk204a1ab5qonqztgn55)/catalogSku.aspx?id=592014
17:20 gaal i don't want to buy one and throw it away. i'm in an anti-consumerism streak.
17:20 nothingmuch i'll find a use for it
17:20 nothingmuch i could use one
17:20 nothingmuch i have two in my cube at work
17:20 nothingmuch i could bring them too
17:20 nothingmuch but they're pretty small
17:21 gaal i have a small one. it's funny, i asked for "a small one" and a few days later something A3-sized showed up.
17:21 nothingmuch is a3 small?
17:21 nothingmuch oh right, it is
17:21 gaal kinda. twice A4.
17:21 nothingmuch that's very small
17:21 Khisanth gaal: just get a can of white paint :)
17:21 Khisanth and a brush of course
17:22 nothingmuch Khisanth: then you need to wait every time
17:22 gaal indeed. if everyone were that literal all the time we could do business.
17:22 Khisanth not if you get the right paint :p
17:23 mtve has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:23 gaal (please echo >> things you think i should prepare for a hackathon) &
17:23 nothingmuch food
17:23 nothingmuch wifi hub
17:23 nothingmuch (i can bring one)
17:24 gaal gabor is bringing one, plus a spare laptop
17:24 gaal though i don't know how long he's staying
17:24 nothingmuch ah, gabor is coming too?>
17:25 nothingmuch that's great
17:25 nothingmuch beer
17:25 nothingmuch coffee
17:25 gaal i always have those things :)
17:25 nothingmuch =)
17:26 Khisanth hrm drunken coding
17:26 gaal i'm getting a hammock but i'm not sure i have a place to hang it up.
17:26 nothingmuch Khisanth: no, beer is energizing
17:26 nothingmuch damn, my fix didn't change anything at all
17:26 gaal beer + summer in tel-aviv == lazy
17:26 Khisanth I would like to see you try that on the cop that pulls you over for drunk driving :)
17:27 nothingmuch Khisanth: one beer is legal
17:27 nothingmuch plus energizing does not mean "increases motoric skills"
17:27 nothingmuch it peps me up.
17:27 nothingmuch i can have 3-4 before i start being drowsy, and then I code badly
17:27 gaal nm, i'm not sure there isn't also a blood level measure, in which case small folk may not be ok with one beer.
17:28 nothingmuch gaal: i'm not really a small folk
17:28 svnbot6 r5436, gaal++ | move Num subs to their own class
17:28 svnbot6 r5437, fglock++ | added Date::Span class
17:28 nothingmuch i look smaller than I am
17:28 * nothingmuch probably weighs more than gaal
17:28 gaal brain the size of a planet...
17:28 nothingmuch but nevermind, i don't drive when drunk
17:29 nothingmuch autrijus: when you wake up, i have a weird patch I'd like to discuss... not committing
17:29 nothingmuch i'm off to get food
17:29 larsen has joined #perl6
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17:31 gaal um, something wrong with namespaces again. all the rounders are not 'is builtin', but the test for them manages to call them without qualification.
17:32 nothingmuch eek
17:32 gaal ?eval class F { sub fff {say "hi"} } fff
17:32 Darren_Duncan has joined #perl6
17:32 gaal ?eval class F { sub fff { "hi"} } fff
17:32 gaal oh, not evalbot. darn.
17:33 gaal but that says hi :(
17:33 gaal nothingmuch: the test consolidation service should also store historical data and ideally allow some diffage.
17:34 nothingmuch gaal: yeah
17:34 nothingmuch there's a repo of results
17:34 nothingmuch i think they should be submitted with HTTP post
17:34 nothingmuch and arbitrary differ
17:34 gaal the database will get big, but it's a great tool.
17:34 nothingmuch like 'consolidate x and y and z'
17:34 nothingmuch i don't mind big, i have GB to spare
17:34 gaal i told juerd i'd love to see it hosted on feather
17:35 nothingmuch i'll hack it in catalyst next weekend
17:35 gaal noooo let's do it in p6!
17:35 nothingmuch too slow.
17:35 nothingmuch this is heavy data munging
17:35 nothingmuch we need it responsive
17:35 * nothingmuch thinks p6 is not ready for writing the tools yet
17:35 nothingmuch since the tools need to deal with special cases, and they need to be fast
17:36 nothingmuch and with the workaroundish nature of pugs around weird corner cases, i think we won't get very far
17:36 gaal special cases? i dunno, i think on the language level pugs prolly has what we need for this, no?
17:36 nothingmuch i don't know
17:36 gaal speed, yeah, is a problem.
17:37 nothingmuch these are hug structures... that's the main problem
17:37 gaal anyway, food
17:37 nothingmuch and they need to be walked in <1s
17:37 nothingmuch yeah, me too
17:37 gaal do everything in sqlite :)
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17:51 svnbot6 r5438, fglock++ | fixes 'density' parameter
17:56 osfameron has joined #perl6
17:56 gaal autrijus: regarding r5363, i didn't need to unlink the files - touching them workedforme. what's different with our setups?
18:01 gaal eeeep! /me ls -l's and looks at the size of PreludePC.hs and other -CPugs outputs
18:08 sapper has joined #perl6
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18:11 gaal unspecced perl5 behavior:
18:11 gaal perl -le '$x = require Carp; $y = require Carp; print $x; print $y'
18:12 gaal $x is what do "Carp.pm" evaluates to, which happens to be 1.
18:12 gaal guess what $y is :-)
18:12 gaal answer: 1, apparently always.
18:12 cjn has left "Leaving"
18:13 gaal regardless of $x, as long , of course, the first require was successful.
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18:13 rafl_ gaal: Well, why is that unexpected? if (exists $INC{$filename}) { return 1 if $INC{$filename}; ... }
18:13 gaal where are you taking that code from?
18:14 gaal oh, perlfunc does have it. interesting.
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18:14 gaal well, i wonder what p6 should do.
18:16 gaal in the case of most class .pms, it's nice to return either the name of the class or a Class for $x: shouldn't $y be equal to $x in that case?
18:16 rafl_ gaal: It's from perldoc -f require
18:17 gaal but in that case they probably have to be weak references in %*INC
18:17 fibonaci has joined #perl6
18:17 gaal rafl_: thanks - saw it after you pointed out the code.
18:18 gaal but that means %*INC can no longer be a simple (name => path-or-hook) hash
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18:19 Limbic_Region salutations fibonaci
18:19 Limbic_Region nice handle
18:21 fibonaci oh
18:21 fibonaci is now known as luqui
18:21 luqui thanks
18:21 Limbic_Region heh
18:21 * Limbic_Region had no idea
18:22 Aankh|Clone has joined #perl6
18:22 luqui When I was obsessed with breaking into the school computers, one of my logins was fibonazi
18:22 nothingmuch luqui: ping
18:23 nothingmuch has quit IRC ("leaving")
18:23 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
18:23 luqui ping me and then leave, eh?
18:23 nothingmuch back
18:23 * Limbic_Region wonders how old luqui is
18:23 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: around my age ;-)
18:23 stevan Limbic_Region: emotionally or physically :P
18:23 nothingmuch luqui: i wanted to discuss pil->p5
18:23 Limbic_Region when I was breaking into my school's computers - I didn't have a login - I used the teachers accounts
18:23 luqui ahh yes that old thing
18:24 luqui my hard drive died... again
18:24 nothingmuch oh crap
18:24 nothingmuch i hate when HDs die
18:24 stevan luqui: that is no excuse
18:24 nothingmuch it's the worst kind of death
18:24 stevan you still have your punchcards
18:24 luqui heh
18:24 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: now make a guess
18:25 Limbic_Region circa 20
18:25 stevan BINGO!
18:25 luqui well, we're only approximately exactly 20
18:26 Limbic_Region in my case - I had a guidance councelor who didn't believe I could break in and in the other case a principal that was hoping I could since he had gotten locked out
18:26 luqui y tu limbic?
18:26 Limbic_Region venty-ocho
18:26 Limbic_Region so I had permission ;-)
18:26 luqui that's no fun
18:26 * Limbic_Region is celebrating his 3 year anniversary with Perl today as a matter of fact
18:27 luqui cool
18:27 luqui That's about how long I've been using perl too
18:27 luqui ... no, I guess it's more like 5 years
18:27 luqui wow
18:27 luqui time flies when you're programming perl
18:27 Limbic_Region yep
18:27 nothingmuch perl or perlmonks?
18:28 Limbic_Region both
18:28 Limbic_Region got my account same day as I discovered Perl
18:28 nothingmuch i'm nearing my 3 year perlmonks ann
18:28 Limbic_Region well - that's not entirely true - I knew about Perl from afar but that's the day I decided to learn about it
18:28 nothingmuch but it's more like 3.5 of perl
18:29 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
18:29 Limbic_Region there has been no single thing that has consumed more of my time, thought, and energy
18:29 luqui and yet, only three years
18:30 Limbic_Region err - in the same ratio I mean
18:30 stevan has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:30 * Limbic_Region is sure he has spent more time masturbating then hacking perl but not in that time window
18:31 luqui haha
18:31 Limbic_Region oh - this channel is logged isn't it
18:31 nothingmuch if only you'd have known perl in your youth?
18:31 nothingmuch you prefix messages with [off]
18:31 luqui vim masturbate.pl
18:31 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - I wouldn't have such hairy knuckles
18:31 nothingmuch what do you get when you play with fire?
18:31 Limbic_Region in any case - I said thanks at the Monastery - but let me say thanks again here
18:32 Limbic_Region here's hoping p6 consumes more of my time in the next 3 years than p5 did in the previous
18:33 nothingmuch call me dumb, but I hope it takes up less time, with more yield
18:33 Limbic_Region ok - you're dumb
18:33 Ovid has joined #perl6
18:34 * Limbic_Region was looking at it from the perspective of having that much free time in the next 3 years
18:34 luqui I hope it takes more time, with a greater yield ratio
18:34 Limbic_Region I was single for 2 of those 3 years
18:34 luqui the former or latter two?
18:35 Limbic_Region the former
18:35 luqui oh...
18:35 luqui you better dump whoever it is
18:35 nothingmuch luqui: too late for him now
18:35 Limbic_Region heh - my wife probably would have to take issue with that
18:35 luqui dump, divorce, same difference
18:36 * nothingmuch wants to learn rubenstein's revenge
18:36 luqui ?
18:36 Limbic_Region perlbot google "rubenstein's revenge"
18:36 alinbsp has joined #perl6
18:37 Limbic_Region grrr - that feature must have got lost when the HD got dismantled
18:37 luqui oh, it's a juggling thingy?
18:37 nothingmuch yep
18:37 luqui nothingmuch juggles?
18:38 nothingmuch some
18:38 * Limbic_Region juggles too but only the very basics
18:38 * luqui was almost convinced after that yapc presentation
18:38 stevan has joined #perl6
18:38 gaal nothingmuch: bring juggling balls to hackathon plz
18:38 Limbic_Region I ran a 10K race once with a guy who juggled the whole race
18:38 nothingmuch gaal: we have millions at work
18:39 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: i once walked 10k
18:39 nothingmuch nobody was juggling, but I made it
18:39 gaal lol
18:39 luqui I once thought about walking 10k
18:39 luqui but I didn't have a laptop at the time, so it was out of the question
18:40 luqui ;-)
18:40 nothingmuch addict
18:40 * gaal rows five miles when not sucking
18:40 luqui uh
18:40 luqui is there a way to retroactively [off] a comment?
18:40 nothingmuch what comment?
18:41 luqui gaal's
18:41 luqui :-)
18:41 gaal i think the channel logger is down anyway.
18:41 nothingmuch ah
18:41 * nothingmuch bikes 20KM when there's enough daylight
18:41 gaal actually, it's back up. what do you know.
18:41 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
18:44 gaal "Parse error in pattern" is a terrible error message.
18:44 mr_ank has joined #perl6
18:45 Limbic_Region gaal - no 0x1 is a terrible error message
18:45 gaal i like haskell better than i like make, so my expectations are higher.
18:46 Limbic_Region *shrug* - I need to take a crash course in brain surgery err um p6 OO
18:46 gaal l~r: you should try examples/obfu/l33t.p6
18:46 gaal that has useful error messages.
18:48 osfameron_ has joined #perl6
18:48 * luqui is teaching one of those...
18:48 * luqui just isn't sure when
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19:08 svnbot6 r5439, fglock++ | added 'density' accessor
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19:16 luqui ooh
19:17 luqui Larry's latest message on p6l is...
19:17 luqui brain-exploding
19:17 luqui or at least tangling
19:18 geoffb link?
19:19 luqui http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.language/22220
19:19 geoffb thx
19:21 * pdcawley thought that Smalltalk rather neatly dodged the infinite Class/Meta/MetaMeta/MetaMetaMeta/... regress rather neatly.
19:21 svnbot6 r5440, fglock++ | 'density' fixes
19:21 svnbot6 r5441, iblech++ | * Added a new test for "class MyValueType is value {...}": t/oo/value_types.t
19:21 svnbot6 r5441, iblech++ | * Usual svn props.
19:21 pdcawley s/rather neatly//
19:21 pdcawley either will do.
19:21 luqui how did it do it?
19:21 pdcawley Feck! You don't expect me to remember do you?
19:22 luqui well, you said rather neatly
19:22 luqui ... twice
19:22 pdcawley But MetaClass isa Class...
19:22 luqui so I just ass-u-me-d
19:23 pdcawley I remember reading the purple book and thinking "that makes sense" and then forgetting about it.
19:23 luqui heh
19:23 pdcawley I think it was the purple book anyway.
19:23 * luqui might be interested in learning some smalltalk
19:23 luqui then again...
19:23 * luqui doesn't really care about metamodels all that much
19:23 pdcawley If I remember rightly, the responsibilities worked out that the class was responsible for holding the instance methods, and the metaclass was responsible for holding the class methods.
19:24 integral hmm, what's the haskell equiv for join(", ", @list) ?
19:24 pdcawley Hang on, I'll fire up a Squeak image and have a look.
19:24 * luqui wishes he knew
19:26 integral hmm, the tour of the prelude implements unwords in terms on foldr1 + some addSpace func
19:27 pdcawley MetaClass isa ClassDescription isa Behaviour isa Object
19:27 pdcawley Class isa ClassDescription
19:28 nothingmuch stevan says: smalltalk metamodel is teh suxx0r
19:29 pdcawley Okay. And the roxxor would be?
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19:33 luqui Perl6::Metamodel?  :-)
19:33 pdcawley Heh.
19:34 luqui Well, Perl5's metamodel is pretty damn good
19:34 luqui for not existing
19:34 luqui it's just the attribute thing that needs work
19:37 rafl_ I know that I asked this question already several times, but I didn't get an answer: Why are the p5 parts of pugs installed as source package (including Makefile.PL, MANIFEST, t/, etc.)?
19:38 luqui you mean when you do make install?
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19:38 svnbot6 r5442, iblech++ | t/oo/inheritance.t -- Added tests, stolen from Larry.
19:39 geoffb has joined #perl6
19:40 svnbot6 r5443, iblech++ | * Pugs.Parser         -- Made "my Foo $foo .= new(...)" parse and work.
19:40 svnbot6 r5443, iblech++ | * t/oo/construction.t -- Added a test for that.
19:42 * luqui heads home
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19:51 svnbot6 r5444, bsmith++ | * Moved version variables from Pugs.Help to Pugs.Version.
19:51 svnbot6 r5444, bsmith++ | * Pugs.Help now import Pugs.CodeGen so that it can produce a correct list of
19:51 svnbot6 r5444, bsmith++ | backends in the -h message.
19:51 svnbot6 r5444, bsmith++ | * Fixed script/pugscc to use the Ghc backend rather than the Haskell backend
19:51 svnbot6 r5444, bsmith++ | for --haskell and --ghc.
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20:03 svnbot6 r5445, iblech++ | util/gen_prelude.pl -- Fixed Haddock-confusing comment.
20:09 rafl_ integral: Maybe you can answer my question?
20:12 integral hmm, perhaps
20:12 integral what do you mean by "installed as source package"?
20:13 integral rafl?
20:14 rafl_ integral: Things like /usr/share/perl5/Code-Perl/Makefile.PL get installed.
20:14 svnbot6 r5446, putter++ | Commented out (failing) test.  $larry yesterday said Foo.isa(Class) is false.
20:14 svnbot6 r5447, iblech++ | Pugs.Help -- Minor cosmetical fix: Added ''s around the "while" thing
20:14 svnbot6 r5447, iblech++ | (consistency: There're ''s around "use module", too) and fixed a typo.
20:14 integral rafl_: ah, that sounds very much a bug :-)
20:15 rafl_ integral: Can you reproduce it?
20:15 integral It should be recursing into the Code-Perl package and running that Makefile's install
20:15 integral I don't install pugs...   and I'm scared of makemaker...   this really isn't my area
20:16 rafl_ integral: You can do make install DESTDIR=/tmp/foo or something. So you can remove it quite easily.
20:16 integral sure, but there's bugs in the install process ;-)
20:16 Aankhen`` I'm getting $INSTDIR/lib/Code-Perl/Makefile.PL
20:16 Aankhen`` Did you install under /usr/share/perl5/?
20:17 * integral will do a quick build before poking
20:17 rafl_ I run perl Makefile.PL INSTALLDIRS=vendor. That should put the p5 stuff into /usr/{lib,share}/perl5/
20:18 rafl_ I'll be right back.
20:18 afields has joined #perl6
20:18 Aankhen`` OK.
20:19 afields Working on my Perl 6 sets pod
20:20 Aankhen`` Hmm.
20:20 afields What's a good block of available punctuation, can { } be overloaded anymore?
20:20 Aankhen`` Basically, everything from lib/ appears to be copied to /usr/{lib,share}/perl5/ or whatever.
20:22 rafl_ Aankhen``: So that's seriously broken, isn't it?
20:22 * Aankhen`` nods.
20:23 * Aankhen`` thinks.
20:23 rafl_ Will you fix it?
20:23 Aankhen`` Isn't lib/* copied by default in a regular distribution?
20:23 Aankhen`` I am not really sure how to fix it.
20:23 integral the .pm files should get copied into blib first, and then the blib installed
20:24 rafl_ OK, so I'll give a try in about an hour.
20:26 Aankhen`` lib/* appears to be copied wholesale to blib/.
20:26 Aankhen`` blib/lib/, actually.
20:28 afields Which is most likely to please Perl 6 authors: a) {.} {..} b) (.) (..) c) <.> <..> or d) none of the above; for Perl 6 grammar (To mark set bounds/intervals/continuences)?
20:29 Aankhen`` I think d)...
20:29 svnbot6 r5448, fglock++ | implemented more methods in Set::Infinite
20:29 svnbot6 r5449, fglock++ | docs update
20:29 afields Aankhen``: How are sets approached from a Perl 6 perspective?
20:29 Aankhen`` The options you listed are very basic symbols; redefining their meanings would be quite catastrophic... :-\
20:30 Aankhen`` Hmm... if you have a copy of the Pugs source handy, you could take a look at ext/Set/lib/Set.pm.
20:31 Aankhen`` (or http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/ext/Set/lib/Set.pm)
20:31 afields i"m thinking it might be advantageous to place meta-data about arrays (sets) at any given level of a multi-level structure
20:31 Aankhen`` my $set = set 23, 42, $some_object;
20:32 afields so should that be done with more syntax or a more procedural manner working on set objects
20:33 Aankhen`` I suggest looking at the work already done first -- it might help you decide.
20:33 afields OK
20:33 afields I'm planning on looking at pugs
20:33 afields just haven't got arround to reading all the source et
20:34 Aankhen`` You don't need to look at the Pugs source
20:34 Aankhen`` .
20:34 Aankhen`` I am referring to the `Set` module in Perl 6, which is shipped with Pugs.
20:34 Aankhen`` The Perl 6 `Set` module, even. :-P
20:35 afields OK, so is this not going to somehow make it into base language
20:35 afields sets are just a special case type of an array?
20:35 Aankhen`` I dunno about that, I haven't looked at the implementation as such.
20:36 afields reason I ask is what if you want to deal with a very large set which can be partially specified ( 1 2 3 <..> 65535 ) for instance
20:40 dudley is whitespace significant between a sub name and the opening paren of its parameter list?
20:40 dudley i.e. is:
20:40 dudley sub foo ($bar) {...}
20:41 dudley equivalent to
20:41 dudley sub foo($bar) {...}
20:43 Aankhen`` Yes.
20:48 Khisanth afields: more like hashes than arrays
20:50 afields my @a = ( [1,2,<..>10], [3,4,<..>,7], { a => [9,10], b => [-$a,<..>$a] } );
20:50 afields my @set rather
20:50 Aankhen`` rafl_ >> You could try something like this in Makefile.PL: `libs(map fixpaths($_), grep { -f "$_/Makefile.PL" && not -l "$_/Makefile.PL" } glob("lib/*"));`.
20:50 Aankhen`` That'd miss out `pugs.pm` and `pugs.pod`, I think, but it's a start. :-)
20:51 Aankhen`` Anyway.
20:51 * Aankhen`` goes to sleep.
20:51 Aankhen`` G'night.
20:51 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Induhvidual quote: "I threw down the carrot and he picked it up and ran with it." [Time wasted online: 2hrs 9mins 54secs]")
20:52 afields the idea is not to actually store numbers between -$a and $a, but simply to store the meta-data of the set that the range of values will return numbers between the two bounds of the interval
20:52 afields and to do this using regular arrays
20:52 afields I cover this in section: Storage vs. Usage
20:52 fglock afields: see also the 'Span' class
20:52 afields fglock: you are doing set work I see?
20:53 fglock afields: yes
20:53 afields fglock: how much is done on things like continuances and incompletely specified sets, infinite sets?
20:55 fglock that's Set::Infinite - it will handle those
20:55 Khisanth there is a Set::Infinite isn't there? :)
20:55 afields so each of these is a class which returns basically a blessed array?
20:56 fglock afields: no, it returns an iterator
20:56 Khisanth you aren't suppose to care about implementation :p
20:56 afields Khisanth: well I might have to because I want to see the regex engine talk objects
20:56 afields and sets
20:56 nothingmuch moose!
20:56 fglock it should return a Lazy List, but I think these are not fully implemented yet
20:57 sili that sounds like fun
20:57 afields can't we do this in the base language, please?
20:57 afields not the grungy stuff
20:57 Khisanth hmm both pp.h and chardefs.h has RETURN ... I don't think this will work out well
20:57 afields just the primitives of set operations
20:57 * nothingmuch wonders if you're allowed to talk back to schwern about quality stuff
20:57 nothingmuch talk back == disagree
20:59 geoffb give 'im hell, nothingmuch
20:59 fglock afields: the base language handles 1 .. 10, but it has some problems with 1 .. Inf
20:59 dudley has quit IRC ()
20:59 geoffb dammit, why does ambiguous tab completion ALWAYS choose the wrong one?
20:59 afields fglock: exactly, why even both dealing with infinity until it is actually used
21:00 afields why even store 1..10
21:00 nothingmuch heh
21:00 afields store 1, to, 10 ;)
21:01 fglock afields: that's how it works, actually
21:01 fglock but the API makes it look like a list
21:02 afields fglock: ok, so then can I do 1 .. 10 in Perl 6 or 32 .. Inf and then find the compliment of the two arrays?
21:02 stevan nothingmuch: I didnt say the smalltalk metamodel sucked
21:02 Maddingue has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:02 fglock yes - you can do that using the Span module already
21:02 nothingmuch stevan: yes you did ;-)
21:02 stevan I said it was more complex then it needed to be
21:02 nothingmuch ah
21:02 stevan in a drunken fit maybe
21:03 stevan but not when I was sober
21:03 nothingmuch i parse that as "sucked badly"
21:03 stevan nah
21:03 nothingmuch even if you said that verbatim
21:03 nothingmuch i don't like complexity in something so atomic
21:03 stevan just more "academic" then "practical"
21:03 nothingmuch an ideal metamodel is very practical because it's so academic it's perfect
21:04 stevan the perfect metamodel: available in proof form only
21:04 afields fglock: ok, that's good, but why not just make arrays that 2 bytes smarter to do it there instead of delegating it to a special class?  I mean arguably you could omit the combinatoric logic in the base language and implement that as a module as long as arrays could better represent edge-case sets
21:04 * nothingmuch goes to have a cigarette
21:04 * Khisanth shoots nothingmuch
21:05 nothingmuch Khisanth: eh?
21:05 * stevan throws luqui inbetween nothingmuch and bullet
21:05 Khisanth luqui is bulletproof?
21:06 stevan we shall soon find out
21:06 nothingmuch just a little bit longer
21:06 stevan bah, he is off channel,... even worse
21:07 fglock afields: I think the language will be able to handle that, once everything is in place. Actually, it may end up using a module transparently (I guess that's what "Prelude" is for)
21:07 nothingmuch Khisanth: are you going to explain or can I go?
21:07 afields fglock: so are you interested in more wacky suggestions on what would be nice to see for Perl 6 and sets?
21:08 afields I like the fact that Unicode operators will work
21:09 fglock sure - please mail me [email@hidden.address] - I've got to leave now :(
21:09 afields ok, thanks, good timing =)
21:09 fglock has quit IRC ("I am going away")
21:09 svnbot6 r5450, bsmith++ | util/importgraph.pl - colourise nodes by import/export lists and 'qualified'
21:09 svnbot6 r5450, bsmith++ | src/Pugs/Bind.hs - added export list
21:14 Khisanth nothingmuch: just the smoking :)
21:18 lightstep has joined #perl6
21:18 svnbot6 r5451, putter++ | Commented out the envID field of Env.  With it, my $x = sub{}; $x =:= $x  was false, due to a single (prune-able?) mismatch.
21:19 nothingmuch Khisanth: you can forgive me, I don't do it often
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21:35 jhorwitz has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
21:35 svnbot6 r5452, putter++ | "Fixed" t/var/symbolic_deref.t.  Replaced a random tested function with another currently working.  And temporarily replaced =:= with ~~, as =:= on subs is still broken.
21:35 svnbot6 r5453, putter++ | Added failing tests for =:= on subs.
21:44 nothingmuch is anyone here familiar with pugs' current MMD dispatching?
21:47 geoffb OK, WTF?!?
21:47 geoffb pugs> my $i; while ++$i < 2 {next; say "Saw $i"}
21:47 geoffb Saw 2
21:47 nothingmuch ooh
21:51 geoffb Ah, I see the blind spot -- it looks like all tests for next use a for loop
21:51 svnbot6 r5454, putter++ | Added "&main::" where needed in caller.t.
21:52 dudley has joined #perl6
21:55 nothingmuch geoffb: want to try to pair through it?
21:55 geoffb Sure, what did you have in mind?
21:56 nothingmuch do you know how Eval.hs applies loops?
21:56 nothingmuch since every block is a closure it's really just repeated calls on the block
21:56 nothingmuch each call get's a new dynamic scope
21:56 geoffb OK
21:56 nothingmuch with the next subroutine containing a closure that escapes
21:57 nothingmuch (same applies for return, redo, etc)
21:57 svnbot6 r5455, putter++ | examples.t reverse.p6 was failing because an output line was added, without updating the tested output/ file.
21:57 nothingmuch line 444
21:58 geoffb LOL
21:58 nothingmuch LOL?
21:58 geoffb "probably needs work".
21:58 geoffb Uh, yeah, definitely
21:58 nothingmuch heh =)
22:00 nothingmuch okay
22:00 PerlJam has quit IRC ("leaving")
22:00 nothingmuch cond is evaluated in Bool context
22:00 nothingmuch vb is a cast from perl6's val that is a bool, into a boolean
22:01 nothingmuch (haskell boolean)
22:01 nothingmuch f is the transformer (id for while, not for until)
22:01 nothingmuch if (f vb) is true, we reapply, otherwise we return the result of the conditional (always false)
22:02 dmo has quit IRC ()
22:02 nothingmuch i forget the details of fix, but it builds and env
22:02 * geoffb doing too much window switching . . . rearranging windows . . . better
22:03 nothingmuch next isn't even generated... that's our problem =)
22:03 Enveigler_ has joined #perl6
22:04 geoffb OK, so it basically comes down to transferring some magic from the block starting at 368 (for) and/or 400 (loop)
22:04 nothingmuch yeah, pretty much.
22:05 nothingmuch i think while is simpler though.
22:05 * geoffb doing his best to keep up with several people talking to me at once
22:05 nothingmuch since there is no iterator to skip - just redo the loop, but with the conditional
22:05 geoffb yay, others have gone AFK, now back to trying to grok the code
22:05 Limbic_Region_ has joined #perl6
22:06 nothingmuch heh
22:09 justatheory has joined #perl6
22:10 nothingmuch okay, i think i've got it
22:10 nothingmuch i just have to remove a bajillion traces
22:10 nothingmuch i was debugging MMD =(
22:14 geoffb Oy.
22:15 geoffb Either A) I'm not ready for this, or B) the different looping constructs have arbitrary differences that needn't be there, or C) both.
22:15 geoffb Right now I'm leaning towards A or C.
22:15 nothingmuch hmm
22:15 nothingmuch actually the loop application code is pretty tight
22:16 nothingmuch for, loop and while are very different =)
22:16 geoffb Well, for example -- what is the diff. between genSymCC and genSymPrim?
22:16 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
22:16 nothingmuch genSymPrim takes a function, and makes a Prim out of it, and creates a symbol around that (a sub)
22:16 nothingmuch genSymCC does - i dunno
22:16 nothingmuch let's see?
22:17 geoffb I mean, my auto-acronym-expander thinks CC is "caller continuation", but  . . .
22:17 geoffb OK
22:17 nothingmuch hmm
22:17 nothingmuch yeah, i think I see
22:21 nothingmuch aha!
22:21 nothingmuch enterWhile is in Monads.hs
22:21 nothingmuch it defines next
22:21 nothingmuch and last
22:22 nothingmuch hmm.
22:23 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 212.143.91.217 pasted "some traces of geoffb's while bug" (8 lines, 168B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11694
22:24 nothingmuch there's our bug
22:24 nothingmuch after next is invoked
22:24 nothingmuch the execution continues
22:24 nothingmuch in fact, next recurses into the while loop
22:24 nothingmuch let's try to make it worse:
22:25 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 212.143.91.217 pasted "just like I pictured it" (10 lines, 217B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11695
22:25 nothingmuch =D
22:25 geoffb yep, there you go.
22:26 geoffb What do you do to get those traces?
22:26 geoffb Or did you just instrument the code?
22:26 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 212.143.91.217 pasted "code with traces" (12 lines, 593B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11696
22:27 nothingmuch okay, we want to implement next with genSymCC
22:27 nothingmuch but with a catch - it just restarts the whole while loop sequence
22:27 nothingmuch without losing the env
22:28 geoffb nod
22:28 nothingmuch okay, let's have a crack at it
22:29 geoffb OK, let me just see if I understand here:
22:29 geoffb redo needs to recurse, so that should use genSymPrim.  last and next do not, so they need genSymCC.
22:29 geoffb Am I following correctly?
22:31 nothingmuch actually I think redo is also broken
22:31 nothingmuch it needs to abort the current block
22:31 nothingmuch they are all like goto
22:32 geoffb OK, granted I don't know Haskell all that well (I'm basically reading it like an Italian reading Spanish), but it looks like the redo concept is "tail-recurse the loop block"
22:33 nothingmuch it is
22:33 nothingmuch and next is the same
22:33 nothingmuch except it tail recurses the conditional and the body
22:33 nothingmuch and last is just go back to your caller
22:33 geoffb nodnod
22:34 lightstep has quit IRC ("good night")
22:35 nothingmuch ook, the right man for the job just left =(
22:35 geoffb bleah
22:36 chromatic has joined #perl6
22:36 cognominal The 'Autrijus' method does not exist in the 'inc' path!  # Autrijus manages even to mess perl5 :)
22:36 nothingmuch i hope autrijus wakes up soon
22:36 chromatic Is Pugs.Embed.Parrot a deprecated module?
22:36 nothingmuch cognominal: ?
22:37 cognominal I got this message when trhing to install PAR with GnuPG support
22:37 cognominal no big deal
22:38 putter has joined #perl6
22:38 putter #haskell
22:38 nothingmuch #haskell!
22:39 geoffb OK, may have to add another channel to the tabs.  Is the proper #haskell on freenode, or some other net?
22:39 nothingmuch freenode
22:41 justatheory has quit IRC ()
22:41 putter oops:/
22:41 nothingmuch putter: have you got cont fu?
22:42 chromatic Ahh, it's src/Pugs/Embed/Parrot.hsc
22:42 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
22:45 pasteling "chromatic" at 63.105.17.30 pasted "Dump PIR Output from Embedded Parrot (maybe more valuable in codegen; still somewhat valuable)" (31 lines, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/11698
22:47 Enveigler_ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:51 geoffb OK, nm, I need a mental break, and it sounds like you've hit a wall too -- nothingmuch++ for diagnosis -- so I'm going AFK for a few.  When I get back, I will roll a virtual die and either: 1) learn more haskell, 2) write tests for this bug, 3) work around and get more Perl 6 porting done, 4) take the night off and snack on Aussie Bites.  :-)
22:51 nothingmuch tests tests tests
22:51 nothingmuch mui good
22:52 nothingmuch i'm sort of watching tv (i'm a sucker for anthropology shows) so i'm losing concentration
22:52 nothingmuch but I'll try to figure out how you can make a continuation that *isn't* caller CC
22:52 geoffb .oO( Aussie Bites!  Now made from real Australians! )
22:52 geoffb (y)
22:53 nothingmuch reminds me of a nice calvin & hobbes
22:53 geoffb There are bad C&B?
22:53 nothingmuch "Mom, are hambuger's made out of people from hamburg?"
22:53 geoffb :-)
22:53 nothingmuch "No calvin, don't be gross"
22:53 nothingmuch "it's ground beef"
22:53 nothingmuch "you mean i'm eating a cow?!"
22:53 nothingmuch "i don't think I can finish this"
22:53 geoffb LOL
22:53 nothingmuch ofcourse, in the first cell he is full of apetite
22:54 nothingmuch and in the last one he looks like in one of the oatmeal scenes
22:54 geoffb :-)_
22:54 Limbic_Region__ has joined #perl6
22:55 geoffb My dad tells me that when he saw the C&B where Calvin's on the bus imagining piloting a bomber and bombing the frack out of his school, Dad thought "Wow, I've had EXACTLY the same daydream."
22:55 nothingmuch heh
22:55 nothingmuch i like the dinosaur ones the best
22:55 geoffb My fav have to be the snowman grotesques
22:56 nothingmuch oh, they're wonderful
22:56 geoffb OK, really AFK now
22:56 nothingmuch ciao!
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23:11 Limbic_Region__ has quit IRC ("tiuq\")
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23:17 * nothingmuch makes a wild guess
23:20 * nothingmuch smiles
23:21 putter nothingmuch: re cont fu, mediocre.  something in particular?
23:21 nothingmuch &next is broken in while
23:21 nothingmuch but i've improvised a fix
23:21 Maddingue has joined #perl6
23:21 nothingmuch        genSymPrim "&next" (const $ action >>= \res -> esc res) $ \symNext -> do
23:21 nothingmuch        -- genSymPrim "&next" (const action) $ \symNext -> do
23:21 nothingmuch commented is old
23:22 nothingmuch it would call the next iteration of the while, complete it
23:22 nothingmuch and then go back and resume the statement after the call to next
23:22 nothingmuch err, prepend that with callCC $ \esc -> do
23:27 putter looking...
23:31 nothingmuch altering monads takes so long to recompile
23:32 mugwump__ yeah, they have to go through customs
23:32 * mugwump__ hmms at his nick
23:33 nothingmuch mugwump__: ?
23:33 nothingmuch what customs do you speak of?
23:33 mugwump__ you know, security checks and getting frisked down.  make sure they're not terrorists.
23:34 nothingmuch who has to go through customs?
23:34 mugwump__ the monads
23:34 nothingmuch ah
23:34 nothingmuch well, yes, no one understands them, they raise suspicion
23:34 mugwump__ how else can ghc be sure they have no side effects?
23:34 nothingmuch arrows, OTOH, are even less understood, and they look pointy
23:35 putter eeep.  three implementations of next/last/redo in two files.  lossage is to be expected.  are the semantics such that we could rip out all three and replace them with something clean?
23:35 mugwump__ is now known as mugwump
23:35 nothingmuch putter: no
23:35 putter :(
23:35 nothingmuch they are different for every type of loop
23:36 nothingmuch they're pretty dense
23:36 nothingmuch so I don't think it's bad
23:36 nothingmuch well, supposedly yes
23:42 stevan nothingmuch: *cough*
23:42 svnbot6 r5456, nothingmuch++ | Fix geoffb++'s next in while bug... next is now implemented with
23:42 svnbot6 r5456, nothingmuch++ | continuations.  redo is still needed, as are tests.
23:42 nothingmuch shutup, i'm watching TY
23:42 nothingmuch TV
23:42 stevan the opiate of the masses
23:42 nothingmuch there's a documentary on the metamorphisis of islamic states in the 20th century
23:42 mugwump the drug of a nation
23:42 stevan you brain will leak out your ears
23:42 nothingmuch i don't know enough about that
23:43 nothingmuch and i'm doing haskell at the same time
23:43 stevan nothingmuch: how can you not, they are your neighbors
23:43 osfameron_ has joined #perl6
23:43 nothingmuch stevan: they don't teach us about anybody but the jews in history
23:43 * mugwump cues "Couch Potato" by Weird Al Yankovic
23:43 nothingmuch or the people who did crap to the jews
23:43 stevan and muslims are not included in that??
23:43 nothingmuch well, it's only the crap they did
23:44 * geoffb gets BAK to see nothingmuch has fixed my bug -- thanks, nothingmuch++ !
23:44 nothingmuch like:
23:44 nothingmuch geoffb: wait, there's more
23:44 nothingmuch my $i; while ++$i < 5 {say "moose"; if (++$i == 2){ redo } else { say "no redo" };; say "Saw $i"}
23:45 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 212.143.91.217 pasted "the output of that loop" (8 lines, 51B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11699
23:45 nothingmuch as you can see in the nopaste, at some point there is "Say 6", which is not directly preceded by "no redo"
23:45 nothingmuch which is crap
23:45 nothingmuch we need callCC for redo as well
23:45 geoffb nodnod
23:45 nothingmuch i have no idea how this is working in the other impls
23:46 nothingmuch can someone right extensive tests for redo/next under for, loop and while?
23:46 geoffb Well, a grep for next earlier showed that it is very rarely used outside of its own tests.  Which are probably fairly bogus
23:46 nothingmuch okay
23:46 nothingmuch so let's crak on that a while
23:46 geoffb (used in t/*/* I mean)
23:47 nothingmuch i'll commit while next/redo with the cases we have
23:47 nothingmuch and start on for
23:47 nothingmuch you do loop, fair?
23:47 geoffb nodnod
23:48 geoffb lemme pull and build, and then I'll start on the tests while that goes
23:48 nothingmuch Control.Monads is a slow build
23:48 geoffb Have you committed yet?
23:49 putter nothingmuch: looks plausible... vaguely... I think... ;)
23:50 putter Now I can remove the "# when next; works, change this to..." line from the Prelude.pm, or perhaps I'll wait a bit.
23:50 nothingmuch =)
23:51 * putter goes off to read Sxx on redo...
23:52 geoffb Whee, dinner has arrived.
23:52 geoffb (better half)++
23:52 geoffb AFK again
23:56 nothingmuch ciao

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