Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-07-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:00 svnbot6 r5529, nothingmuch++ | Move around metamodel business for stevan
00:00 nothingmuch done
00:01 nothingmuch sorry again
00:01 nothingmuch nothingmuch--
00:01 * nothingmuch goes to bed
00:01 stevan nite nothingmuch++
00:04 wolverian is there a syntax to specify that a method inherited from a superclass should instead be handled by a role that our child class does? some sort of delegation, that is, but using a superclass's method to handle it instead of our own.
00:08 stevan wolverian: that is how Roles work
00:08 stevan the role method do not override the locally defined methods, but they do override those defined in the superclass(es)
00:09 wolverian stevan, the role's method doesn't have the same name as the superclass's
00:09 wolverian stevan, the role also shouldn't know that this particular subclass wants to use that role to override its superclass's method
00:09 wolverian s/shouldn't/doesn't/
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00:11 stevan wolverian: I am not sure what you mean then
00:11 stevan you want a role's method to override a superclass's method of a different name?
00:12 stevan and you want the local class to decide this?
00:12 stevan if that is so, then you cannot do this automagically
00:12 stevan make the local class's method override the superclass's and delegate to the role instead
00:14 wolverian stevan, right, that's what I want to do, but I'm not sure how to delegate it. I thought I could use 'handles' somehow. I can of course write the body of the method myself, but I was just wondering if there is a way to do it with something else perl6 provides.
00:15 stevan handles is not implemented in pugs IIRC
00:15 stevan but handles only works on attributes
00:15 stevan has $.foo handles 'bar';
00:15 wolverian stevan, that doesn't matter, right now, this prototype is fully perl6 as in AES
00:15 stevan something like that
00:15 stevan ok
00:15 wolverian stevan, has &.foo, right? okay. just wondering if I could just do 'method foo handles <bar>;'
00:15 stevan can you not do a role? can you do a proper delegation relationship
00:15 wolverian but I guess I can't without writing the body.
00:16 stevan wolverian: not that I know
00:16 wolverian stevan, can you rephrase that bit? I mean, proper delegation relationship?
00:16 stevan a has-a relationship
00:17 stevan so instead of using a role and superclass
00:17 stevan you local class will just have an instance of the superclass
00:17 stevan but I am not sure if that is appropriate
00:17 wolverian no, that's not appropriate here, I'm afraid. an isa relationship is appropriate.
00:18 stevan ok
00:18 stevan :)
00:18 wolverian hmm. if a superclass provides method foo, and I have has &.foo handles <bar>; in the child class... what happens when I do ChildClass.new.[foo|bar]?
00:18 stevan no idea
00:19 wolverian I'll just punt this particular class then, and move to the next. :) thanks a lot for your help.
00:19 wolverian oh. another question, actually.
00:19 wolverian can you .wrap methods?
00:19 stevan sure
00:19 stevan I assume so, but I am not really sure
00:19 wolverian a child class wants to do some extra checking before calling an inherited method.
00:19 stevan I would probably just use SUPER:: there
00:20 stevan rather than try to wrap it
00:20 wolverian that feels dirty, for some reason. I'm not sure why..
00:20 stevan its standard OO practice
00:20 stevan its just not very "functional"
00:20 wolverian right
00:20 stevan being a functional fan, I understand what you mean
00:20 stevan but the OO in me says,.. use SUPER::
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00:21 wolverian oh well. I'll do that later too, then :)
00:21 stevan :)
00:21 wolverian the nice thing about this is that this doesn't need to run, so I can just modify it to whatever perl6 looks like this week.
00:22 wolverian that didn't make much sense, I think. I need to sleep.
00:23 stevan well if you make it run in pugs too
00:23 stevan then you can also have to change it based on what is working right in pugs and what is not :)
00:23 wolverian yeah. I'd like this to run this year, at least.
00:24 wolverian I haven't looked a lot at other people's perl6 code. do others name their roles so that the 'does' lines make sense in english?
00:24 svnbot6 r5531, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel - renaming the container tests (nothingmuch++); and making the rest of the test suite run again (no container types though);
00:25 stevan wolverian: I think that is a good way to name roles
00:25 stevan however, it does not always work
00:25 wolverian I have a role called Explode here. :)
00:25 stevan Explodeable would be my choice
00:25 wolverian yeah, it seems to be I've just hit a case where it doesn't _quite_ work.
00:26 wolverian stevan, 'does Explodeable' doesn't work at all
00:26 stevan but thats because I look at roles as just using methods
00:26 stevan wolverian: its american english, all bets are off :)
00:26 wolverian I was taught british english, so. :)
00:26 stevan :P
00:27 stevan I be a 'merican, and I ain't talk very good
00:27 wolverian I also have a role called Belong, which is a bit more awkward
00:27 wolverian but it still works. :)
00:27 stevan but seriously, I tend to look at Roles as being a collection of behaviors which works well with the *able names
00:28 wolverian yes, I do that too, coming from Ruby
00:28 wolverian but
00:28 wolverian look at it from a theatre perspective
00:29 wolverian "Your role is to Sing Funny songs" class Me does Sing[Funny] { ... }
00:29 wolverian or so.
00:29 Odin- Whaddya mean, "does Explode" works just fine.
00:29 Odin- It just implies the wrong thing. ;)
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00:30 wolverian Odin-, wrong, how? :)
00:31 Khisanth is Explosive?
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00:32 Odin- wolverian: Oh, the code *does* blow up in your face when you try to use it? :p
00:33 wolverian Khisanth, ech. no. this kind of a thing is exactly what roles are for.
00:33 wolverian Odin-, no, the object does. :)
00:34 Odin- wolverian: I ... see.
00:34 wolverian this is getting obnoxious. I have twelve classes in one file
00:34 * wolverian refactors
00:45 wolverian perl6's OO system makes ruby seem pitiful. so much for poignancy!!! (re: why's poignant guide to ruby)
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00:53 wolverian okay. traits are magic spells.
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01:02 putter nothingmuch: ping?
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01:14 dudley_ putter:  any luck on the exploding build?
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01:17 putter Not on fixing it.  So I snarfed r5509, and am svn merge'ing, but as work continued on moved files, that's turning out to be a pain.
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01:20 mugwump Install paths are an issue that need to be resolved, really.  There is also the issue that we need to have modules installed with the same short name but different long names
01:25 putter The simplest approach would be to revert head to r5509, and disable make install.  Folks can svn merge the last day of changes out of the repository and back in.   And install fixed at lesure.
01:27 putter Where folks is mostly nothingmuch and stevan.
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01:28 putter stevan: ping?
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01:36 mugwump there are two pure_site_install rules in the generated Makefile
01:38 mugwump the first one shouldn't be there
01:43 autrijus greetings. I woke up at Ovid's journal.
01:43 wolverian you were sleeping in Ovid's journal? :)
01:43 autrijus no, I was sleeping in use.perl homepage.
01:43 brentdax Unexpected Win #1: ~gather { ... } simplifies writing functions that generate [HT|X]ML.
01:44 autrijus greetings brentdax the summer coder.
01:44 mugwump hi autrijus.  I'm just picking through the inc/Module/Install/* to try to find out why this rule is ending up being inserted twice...
01:44 brentdax Greetings Autrijus the genius language implementor.
01:44 autrijus brentdax: I used to use [~]gather{}
01:44 autrijus brentdax: ~ gives you extra whitespace you may or may not care
01:45 brentdax Mmm, good point.
01:45 autrijus url complained during my yapcna speech that ~= is made harder to type
01:45 autrijus and he uses .= all over his program
01:45 autrijus er, I mean uri.
01:45 autrijus so I suggested [~]gather{...}, but I'm not sure he agreed
01:46 mugwump [~]gather{ ... } will be faster by design
01:46 brentdax I love how it's not necessary to declare a variable and use that name all over the place--gather/take makes it all implicit in a very handy way.
01:46 autrijus indeed
01:47 brentdax It's almost like working directly with print or say statements, but you get a string instead.
01:47 autrijus mugwump: so you think you can fix this in the next few hours? I was about to give up and rely on moving lib/* into runtimes/perl5/*
01:47 mugwump using lots of ~= gives you O(N^2) performance, assuming that appending to a string is O($string.length)
01:47 putter mugwump: while you're at it, keep an eye out for why blib6/lib isn't being created....
01:48 autrijus and then adding them as explicit LIB
01:48 mugwump heh.  well, I'll give it a crack - but you know the history with this makefile stuff ;)
01:48 mugwump most people end up running away screaming
01:48 autrijus indeed I do. so let me try this very very simple fix. sec
01:48 putter I tried that.  Forgot to open the door.  Sitting back down subsequently seemed indicated.
01:50 putter :-) :o) :x)
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01:52 mugwump ok, so in Module::Install::Makefile::fix_up_makefile, the postamble specified in Makefile.PL (where the more correct-looking pure_site_install rule lives) is appended, duplicating the section
01:53 mugwump nothing seems to be written to remove the duplication
01:53 putter Courtesy of my "I really should delete those sometime" pile of old pugs, I note the duplicate pure_site_install entries date back to at least June 7.
01:55 autrijus I think I've fixed it.
01:55 autrijus testing.
01:56 putter which one, install, blib6, or both?
01:56 autrijus all
01:56 autrijus a sec
01:56 * putter gathers little flags at hand to wave in celebration.
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02:21 brentdax Interesting...
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02:21 brentdax Is qq{ foo { bar } baz } specced to ignore the inner closure?
02:22 jp-autark I think it is supposed to be interpolated. currently a bit buggy.
02:22 brentdax M'kay, just making sure.
02:23 brentdax I'm working around it by just using a different delimiter.
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02:30 autrijus please grep for a test and if not there, write a :todo<bug> test :)
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02:44 autrijus svk++ # local branch makes this possible
02:44 svnbot6 r5532, autrijus++ |  r23238@not:  autrijus | 2005-07-13 10:32:25 +0800
02:44 svnbot6 r5532, autrijus++ |  r23239@not:  autrijus | 2005-07-13 10:36:17 +0800
02:44 svnbot6 r5532, autrijus++ |  * revert #1
02:44 svnbot6 r5532, autrijus++ |  r23240@not:  autrijus | 2005-07-13 10:37:31 +0800
02:44 svnbot6 r5532, autrijus++ |  * move Perl6-Config back
02:44 svnbot6 r5532, autrijus++ |  r23241@not:  autrijus | 2005-07-13 10:38:37 +0800
02:44 svnbot6 r5532, autrijus++ |  * revert #3 - makemaker
02:44 svnbot6 r5532, autrijus++ |  r23242@not:  autrijus | 2005-07-13 10:40:01 +0800
02:44 svnbot6 r5532, autrijus++ |  * #4 - move things to perl5/
02:44 svnbot6 r5532, autrijus++ |  r23243@not:  autrijus | 2005-07-13 10:40:21 +0800
02:44 svnbot6 r5532, autrijus++ |  * remove lib/Inline-Pugs
02:47 putter ooo, rX@not!
02:49 jp-autark *miff* make stopped working
02:49 autrijus did you rerun perl Makefile.PL?
02:50 putter Actually, configure stopped working.
02:50 putter Could not open 'lib/Perl6-Pugs/lib/Perl6/Pugs.pm': No such file or directory at /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.5/ExtUtils/MM_Unix.pm line 3079.
02:50 autrijus oh. right.
02:50 autrijus fixed
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02:50 wolverian autrijus, heh, r20k? that's nice :)
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02:53 putter clean build of 5533.  same error.
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02:54 putter or not quote,
02:54 putter Could not open 'lib/Perl6/Pugs.pm': No such file or directory at /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.5/ExtUtils/MM_Unix.pm line 3079.
02:54 putter s/quote/quite/
02:55 dudley_ yep. Except mine looks for 'lib/Perl6-Pugs/lib/Perl6/Pugs.pm'
02:55 svnbot6 r5533, autrijus++ | * more path realignment
02:55 svnbot6 r5534, autrijus++ | * rename P5::PIL::Run to PIL::Run
02:55 autrijus r5535.
02:56 jp-autark *wee*
03:00 Darren_Duncan I got the same error, but an update plus tossing a few dirs plus an update fixed it
03:01 svnbot6 r5535, autrijus++ | * add back missing files; finish reverting
03:01 svnbot6 r5536, autrijus++ | * add perl5/ to layout document.
03:01 autrijus ok, that was drastic, but hopefully sane
03:01 Darren_Duncan currently making 5535
03:01 autrijus 5536 is just docs
03:02 Darren_Duncan so is it preflight time now, or are there still known issues?
03:02 autrijus I don't know, I'm just starting to run smoke
03:02 autrijus I need to fix quicksort.p6
03:03 autrijus and look at module failures
03:03 autrijus that's all
03:03 Darren_Duncan I'm going to do the whole "make test" thing in the background while I do other work
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03:06 svnbot6 r5537, brentdax++ | Test for a (currently present) closure-interpolation bug.
03:07 autrijus rafl: hey. sorry for effectively reverting all your hard work
03:08 autrijus rafl: but it does not look like it can be resolved for 6.2.8
03:09 putter r5535 resolves make test and make install problems.
03:09 * putter wearily waves flag of celebration.
03:10 autrijus :)
03:10 mugwump a white flag?
03:10 putter lol
03:10 putter    ... for a long time.
03:12 putter note to self: an you wanted _another_ reason to switch to svk?  here you go - - -
03:12 svnbot6 r5538, autrijus++ | * brent forgot to update the plan
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03:14 putter brentdax: autrijus fixed it.
03:15 autrijus heh
03:17 putter and make pirtest is sane.
03:17 mugwump Schroedinger's bugs: that's when you don't know whether or not the bug is fixed until you commit it to svn
03:17 mugwump s/commit it/commit the test for it/
03:17 Odin-LAP Schrödinbug.
03:20 putter So, while building optimized, I note
03:20 putter t/builtins/arrays/isa.......​.......................Name '&ok' not found
03:21 putter under pirtest.
03:21 autrijus putter: exports may not be visible inside closures? not sure
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03:35 svnbot6 r5539, autark++ | * Fix for (it seems) qq{ ... { ... } ... }
03:35 svnbot6 r5539, autark++ | * un-bug relevant tests
03:40 putter Did .namespace start working at some point?  Replacing ok(isa( with &main::ok(isa( moves the error from &ok nf to &isa nf.
03:40 putter But there is a seemingly appropriate .namespace["main"] in -CPIR.
03:41 putter Once upon a time (ie, a few weeks ago), .namespace was unhelpful.  Did that change at some point?
03:41 autrijus there's always .namespace["main"] after each .namespace["other"]
03:42 autrijus I don't think the unhelpfulness changed in general
03:43 putter so "we switched to using namespaces pugs-side, and parrot still cant deal, so we loose"?.
03:43 autrijus yup.
03:43 putter ok.
03:46 putter I note one thing which seemed odd in the generated code.  it seemed like it sets Test::foo, then sets main::foo from it, then it sets main::foo from itself.  or something like that.  the last step left me puzzled.
03:47 putter nopaste
03:47 putter pastebot nopaste
03:47 putter channel title++
03:49 pasteling "putter" at 66.30.119.55 pasted "odd code" (25 lines, 655B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11728
03:50 putter random observation.
03:52 putter oh. I didn't follow the control flow.  so the oddity is the inits look like dead code.
03:57 stevan putter: pong (from a while ago)
04:00 putter ?  oh.  I was wondering if you would mind a 12 hour rollback, and merging your work back in, since I was having trouble svn merge'ing automagically.  but autrijus invoked svk magic and fixed the build.
04:01 putter is -B/-C Parrot still real?
04:01 stevan putter: its in a VCS, so rolling back and forth is easy :)
04:01 stevan time travel :)
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04:07 putter back and fourth, yes.  but svn merge wasnt too happy with merging changes from files which had moved in trunk but not in the local copy.
04:07 autrijus putter: no, it's alias for PIR
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04:07 Alias_ seen autrijus?
04:07 autrijus Alias_: yes?
04:07 Alias_ oh good, the autrijus bot is in here
04:07 Alias_ :)
04:07 autrijus I need to run for lunch and some errand rsn
04:08 Alias_ me too
04:08 gaal_ mornin'.
04:08 autrijus so speak quick
04:08 Alias_ meeting, just a quickie
04:08 Alias_ Is it possible to get the pugs svn converted to cvs
04:08 putter alias?  ./pugs -BParrot -Iblib6/lib t/builtins/arrays/isa.t  yields
04:08 Alias_ if not ongoing, then just a one-off
04:08 svnbot6 r5540, putter++ | enum.t - increased number of tests expected to match number run.
04:08 autrijus Alias_: yes, svn2cvs.tigris.org/
04:08 Alias_ ok, goodo
04:08 putter Null PMC access in get_string()
04:08 putter current instr.: 'EVAL_1' pc 10 (EVAL_1:7)
04:08 Alias_ I'll have a cvsmonitor of pugs up shortly  :)
04:09 autrijus cool.
04:09 Alias_ Looking for things to talk about in my cvsmon oscon talk
04:09 Alias_ Mono, Enlightenment, Pugs
04:09 Alias_ Things with strong public interest that nobody ever really sees the inside of
04:09 Alias_ anyways, gotta dash
04:10 putter oh, so does -BPir.  something else is wrong.  never mind.
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04:16 putter re svn merge, or perhaps it worked fine, and I just became confused.  perhaps.
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04:24 svnbot6 r5541, putter++ | p5/method.t - untodoed working a working test; wrapped eval around a dieing test.
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04:34 putter end of day.  good night all.
04:34 putter rafl_: sorry the installation improvement didnt work out.  we can try again post-release.
04:34 putter &
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04:35 svnbot6 r5542, putter++ | 10-dash-uppercase-m.t - :todo<bug> one test
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04:48 pasteling "putter" at 66.30.119.55 pasted "r5538 make test output. fyi." (591 lines, 26.9K) at http://sial.org/pbot/11729
04:50 masak i can't get the url in docs/notes/plan to work
04:50 masak http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/Source/​index.html/pugs/checkout/docs/notes/plan?rev=5465
04:51 masak is that temporary?
04:56 sanxiyn masak: works for me
04:56 masak now for me too :/
04:57 masak must have been temporary then :)
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05:24 Darren_Duncan those preludes must be doing something good ... the tests do seem perceptibly faster
05:24 Darren_Duncan ... than a couple weeks ago
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05:25 Khisanth maybe someone secretly upgraded your system! :)
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06:04 Darren_Duncan Fyi, my 'make test' of 5542 shows: Failed 6/357 test scripts, 98.32% okay. 5/6373 subtests failed, 99.92% okay.
06:05 Darren_Duncan Actually its 5/356; the extra one is a file I had sitting in there that does nothing
06:07 Darren_Duncan putting that aside, there appears to be a bug in the test harness ... it says 5 subtests failed, but the count of failed tests is 8 when counting the individual files
06:16 brentdax How do you push a pair onto an array?  I think they're being interpreted as options.
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06:20 Khisanth wow, that is much faster startup
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07:01 svnbot6 r5543, autrijus++ | * correct plan number of 10-dash-uppercase-m.t
07:01 svnbot6 r5544, autrijus++ | * make ext/DateTime/t/Date/last-day.t runnable from basepath.
07:02 autrijus brentdax: this is a S29 problem;
07:02 autrijus multi sub Array::push (@array is rw : *@values) returns Int {
07:03 autrijus *@values defaults to Item, i.e. does not accept either junctions nor pairs
07:03 autrijus so you can't push pair or junctions into an array
07:03 autrijus this is of course weird. can you please bring this to p6l?
07:03 autrijus (and worse, there's currently no way to work it around.)
07:04 autrijus I blame a certain larry to rule that pairs are junctivated :)
07:04 theorbtw1 We couldn't say (@array is rw : Any *@values) ?
07:04 theorbtw1 is now known as theorbtwo
07:04 autrijus sure, then it would also allow you to push junctions into @array
07:04 autrijus sure we could, the problem is which builtins get that treatment
07:04 autrijus it's not only push.
07:04 autrijus so S29 needs updating anyway
07:05 theorbtwo OK.
07:05 autrijus fwiw, I'm not entirely happy with this surprising treatment of pairs in function calls, but at least it's consistent and easy to explain
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07:06 Aankhen`` Morning.
07:07 autrijus brb
07:07 Aankhen`` Nooo, don't run away! :-P
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07:07 Alias_ autrijus: BTW, so I can study up to OSCON, is there "WTF?" page somewhere that lists what all the various bits and pieces of the Pugs/Perl6 stuff is, what all the cronyms are and mean, and how they all fit toghter?
07:09 coral yti, bidkwia.
07:09 Khisanth hmm why is 1=>2 not the same as the 1=>2 in 1=>2,3=>4?
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07:15 Aankhen`` What are "characters classes in globs"?
07:16 Aankhen`` # http://groups-beta.google.com/group/perl.p​erl6.internals/browse_frm/thread/5e4230c5b​cd0fc94/0bdb158c243fa88c#0bdb158c243fa88c
07:16 coral *.[gb]z
07:16 coral ?
07:16 Aankhen`` Uhh... how does that apply to PGE?
07:17 coral hmm, misinterpreted globs
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07:21 theorbtwo Aankhen``, I think PGE supports both glob-regexes and perl6-regexes.
07:22 theorbtwo (The former is really just an alternate syntax for a subset of the latter.)
07:23 Aankhen`` Ah.
07:23 Aankhen`` Kewl.
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07:32 rafl autrijus, putter: OK.
07:32 rafl autrijus, putter: Soory I didn't had time yesterday to fix that.
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07:34 Alias_ http://search.cpan.org/~davidnico/?D=D
07:34 Alias_ erk
07:34 Alias_ (ignore that)
07:35 autrijus smokers, please start a new round.
07:35 autrijus I think as of r5546 the main test suite is all pass.
07:35 autrijus I'll now move to modules.
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07:37 lightstep wheree does this test belong?
07:37 lightstep for ("a\n", "b\n") -> {my $x = chomp $_; say $x}
07:37 rafl autrijus: Module::Install looks into lib for its stuff to install per default, right? Where's the code for that? I can't find it.. :-/
07:37 autrijus rafl: it's just EU::MM code.
07:37 autrijus EU::MM does that by default, not us
07:37 autrijus M::I is just preprocessor for M::I
07:38 rafl The last sentence seems a bit weird to me.
07:38 Aankhen`` For EU::MM, maybe?
07:39 rafl Yes, M::I for EU:MM or the other way round? I assume the former..
07:39 svnbot6 r5545, autrijus++ | * eliminate the quicksort bug:  An explicit empty signature should
07:39 svnbot6 r5545, autrijus++ |   not be taken as an implicit *@_.  This is a regression that happened
07:39 svnbot6 r5545, autrijus++ |   after 6.2.7, probably during hackathon.
07:39 svnbot6 r5545, autrijus++ |     sub foo () { ... }      # should mean ()
07:39 svnbot6 r5545, autrijus++ |     sub foo { ... }         # should mean (*@_)
07:39 svnbot6 r5546, autrijus++ | * TODOify inheritance.t tests.  `make test` should all pass now.
07:39 autrijus lightstep: t/subroutines
07:39 autrijus er, for EUMM.
07:39 autrijus lightstep: I'll fix rightaway
07:40 lightstep how can i test what domething prints?
07:40 Alias_ hijcak STDOUT
07:40 Alias_ jack
07:40 autrijus lightstep: you can just push it to sometihng
07:40 lightstep ok
07:41 autrijus btw. I think that is bogus
07:41 autrijus for ("a\n", "b\n") -> {my $x = chomp $_; say $x}
07:41 autrijus this should not bind $_ anyway
07:41 autrijus because -> has no implicit signature
07:41 autrijus it means  for ("a\n", "b\n") -> () {my $x = chomp $_; say $x}
07:41 bsb has left
07:41 autrijus which discards the arguments
07:42 wolverian I hope that'll warn :)
07:42 lightstep lots of code depends on it working
07:42 wolverian lightstep, just s/ -> // and it'll work again :)
07:42 autrijus wolverian: it's Eval.hs line 376
07:42 autrijus feel free to throw in a warning there.
07:42 wolverian hmm.
07:42 * wolverian pulls
07:43 lightstep btw, for ("a\n", "b\n") -> {print $_; my $x = chomp $_; say $x}
07:43 lightstep does bind $_
07:43 autrijus lightstep: and _that_ is a bug.
07:45 autrijus I'll fix it now.
07:45 lightstep line 376 makes for ... -> {} work like for ... {}, doesn't it?
07:45 lightstep i figured i have no idea how to test this stuff
07:45 autrijus no, it discards $_
07:45 autrijus er
07:46 autrijus it discards the iterator
07:46 autrijus there will be no topic
07:50 lightstep how do i test if a string is a substring of another?
07:51 QtPlatypus $string ~~ /substring/
07:51 lightstep if the second is in a variable?
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07:52 Khisanth "PackFile_unpack: Bytecode not valid for this interpreter:" < do I need to get a newer revision of pug|parrot or is there something else going on?
07:52 QtPlatypus $string ~~ /$substring/
07:52 autrijus lightstep: the fix is in
07:52 QtPlatypus I think.
07:52 autrijus Khisanth: what are you doing?
07:52 autrijus lightstep: index()
07:52 Khisanth well I was just trying s:3x:3rd/a/b/
07:54 Khisanth that wasn't the full error though
07:54 autrijus the x and rd modifiers won't work
07:54 autrijus and you need parrot 0.2.2
07:56 Khisanth ah, need older parrot :)
07:56 svnbot6 r5547, autrijus++ | * Implicit variables -- $^a $^b etc -- now _only_ works in bare blocks,
07:56 svnbot6 r5547, autrijus++ |   in accordance with S06.  Existing code may or may not break.
07:59 autrijus anyone running smoke for r5549?
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08:05 svnbot6 r5548, autrijus++ | * unbreak fp's `map` and `grep`
08:05 svnbot6 r5549, autrijus++ | * move modules that has no chance of pass test suite to modules/.
08:06 gaal|work i just started a smoke, autrijus, but am busy at work so i won't be able to be very active in the release process
08:06 autrijus that's fine
08:06 autrijus I'll deal :)
08:07 gaal|work kinda suspected that :)
08:07 autrijus (and if you're busy, then ^C the smokE)
08:07 autrijus since it's known to be bogus -- r5550 fixed it
08:07 gaal|work ah
08:07 autrijus I'll start a smoke myself then
08:07 autrijus it only takes 15 minutes now.
08:07 autrijus :)
08:08 autrijus much better than ~40
08:08 gaal|work heh.
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08:12 svnbot6 r5550, autrijus++ | * oops, extraction was disabled for blocks too. reactivated
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08:18 autrijus Still burning: DateTime, Net-IRC, Perl-Compiler, Set, Span, Test-Builder, Test
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08:18 gaal|work NameGen here too
08:18 autrijus namegen is part of P-C
08:19 gaal|work walla.
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08:19 autrijus all of them looks curable anyway. I'll start from Test and work backwards.
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08:19 autrijus I wonder what's wrong with Net::IRC's export failure
08:20 * autrijus is multitasking between pugs and $work -- bbiab
08:32 Aankhen`` No subs are being exported.
08:32 svnbot6 r5551, autrijus++ | * fix Test's 3-output.t by disabled TEST_ALWAYS_CALLER
08:32 svnbot6 r5551, autrijus++ |   for the subprocess.
08:32 gaal|work still t\pugsrun\10-dash-uppercase-m.t: *** No compatible subroutine found: "&load_test"
08:32 svnbot6 r5552, autrijus++ | * fix Span.pm's failures.
08:33 Aankhen`` (from Net::IRC)
08:33 Aankhen`` Lunch, BBIAF. &
08:34 gaal|work statements/for.t crashes
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08:35 autrijus gaal|work: fixed
08:35 autrijus will commit shortly
08:35 gaal|work dollar_underscore fails one
08:36 gaal|work implicit_params has an unexpected pass
08:36 gaal|work subroutine\subroutine fails 2
08:36 gaal|work smoke up in a jiffy
08:38 autrijus down to 6 failures in modules
08:38 svnbot6 r5553, autrijus++ | * more test cleanups
08:38 gaal|work http://perlcabal.org/~gaal/smoke_xp.html
08:38 autrijus danke
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08:38 gaal|work eh, i don't know why it says 5549 in the build info
08:38 gaal|work it's 5550
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08:52 brentdax ...I didn't notice that before...
08:54 brentdax ./pugs -e 'my $x=1; $x.foo().bar()' complains about the lack of bar() first; only if I remove bar() does it complain about foo().  This might help explain the weird method-chaining bugs I've been seeing.
08:54 svnbot6 r5554, Aankhen++ | * ext/libwww-perl/t/api.t: use `use_ok` instead of hand-rolled variant. :-)
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09:09 gaal|work methods/instance has a yellow.
09:09 svnbot6 r5555, autrijus++ | * relax implicit $_'s existence in subroutines without formal parameters.
09:11 * Aankhen`` paints gaal|work pink.
09:11 gaal|work examples.t and general/basic fail..... smoke in a bit.
09:12 * gaal|work is multicolored
09:12 gaal|work like a parrot?
09:15 Aankhen`` Nah, you're just pink.
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09:17 brentdax Can the Time::Local oject localtime returns actually do anything?
09:17 brentdax *object
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09:19 Aankhen`` brentdax >> It can look pretty... :-D
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09:20 brentdax Oh, it's in Prelude...
09:21 brentdax Hmm, seems the method bug is really a bug when attaching a method to any subroutine--localtime.sec isn't happy, but $localtime_obj.sec is.
09:21 autrijus yeah, known issue
09:24 brentdax Oh, alright.  I'll keep working around it, then.
09:25 brentdax That one fix will probably cut about a quarter of the line count off...
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10:20 svnbot6 r5556, autrijus++ | * eliminate cruft: $*PACKAGE, envStash
10:20 svnbot6 r5557, autrijus++ | * nested `use` no longer cripple the middle module's environment.
10:20 svnbot6 r5558, autrijus++ | * It's "generating" prelude, not "installing" prelude
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10:45 gaal|work http://perlcabal.org/~gaal/smoke_xp.html # r5558 # 7591 ok, 389 failed, 1014 todo, 107 skipped and 0 unexpectedly succeeded
10:50 autrijus gaal|work: msys?
10:51 gaal|work native win32
10:51 autrijus can you look into the failure of 01-string-with-spaces
10:51 autrijus and see if we should just excise that test?
10:51 gaal|work sure
10:51 autrijus 323 out of 389 is that single tet.
10:53 gaal|work it's a fs permission issue
10:53 gaal|work i say we junk it for now :)
10:53 gaal|work it's also a very slow test, it creates a process that many times
10:54 autrijus mv into t_disabled or rm away, either is fine with me, please excise
10:55 Elly is there a version of perl6 that I can play with right now?
10:56 autrijus Elly: yes, we are about to release 6.2.8
10:56 cognominal has quit IRC ("Leaving")
10:56 autrijus but you can download the previous version -- see http://pugscode.org/ and Perl6::Pugs on CPAN
10:58 Elly How's Perl6 on Parrot going?
10:58 gaal|work autrijus, done as r5559
10:58 gaal|work meeting &
10:58 autrijus Elly: we can run the test suite with parrot as of 6.2.8; only 3% or so of tests pass currently.
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10:59 Elly coolness
10:59 Elly I'm waiting on Perl6 ;D
10:59 autrijus but basic subroutine calls and flow control, arithmetic, string manipulation etc all works
10:59 autrijus Elly: but Perl6 on Perl5 may be even more fun to you
11:00 autrijus please see http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/docs/notes/plan .
11:01 Elly do you guys think parrot is likely to be the sort of thing that will be installed on a large proportion of computers? (like Java)
11:01 svnbot6 r5559, gaal++ | move away problematic test until its fs permission problems are resolved
11:02 autrijus Elly: I have no idea. it may or may not.
11:02 autrijus also do you think firefox to be on a large proportion of computers?
11:02 Elly well...allegedly around 10%
11:02 autrijus yeah
11:03 autrijus so maybe one day firefox will bundle parrot.
11:03 Elly that would be cool
11:03 autrijus for me that would be good enough :)
11:04 autrijus but for now... I'm more focused on getting Perl6 on a large proportion of computers, instead of parrot
11:04 autrijus that may also have something to do with this being #perl6 not #parrot :) (#parrot is on irc.perl.org)
11:05 Elly well, a computer with perl6 is a computer with parrot isn't it?
11:05 autrijus not neccessarily; for example, currently you can install GHC instead of Parrot to run Perl6.
11:05 autrijus my hope is that eventually you can install perl5 instead of Parrot to run Perl6.
11:05 autrijus or even javascript.
11:05 autrijus I mean, run perl6 in a browser's javascript engine
11:06 Elly Now that would be awesome.
11:06 ToniEisner that could change a lot of things...
11:06 Elly I shudder to think of how hairy that would be though
11:06 autrijus :)
11:06 Elly how would that work, you'd have a javascript wrapper with Perl6 code inside it?
11:07 autrijus no, it works by compiling perl6 into javascript, much like how C is compiled to assembly
11:07 Elly oh
11:07 Elly hey, that's cool ;D
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11:10 Elly except
11:10 Elly wouldn't that still be really hairy? =\
11:10 autrijus yes it would, except it will be invisible to the user, I think
11:12 Elly well
11:12 Elly yeah, I guess
11:12 Elly You'd do perl6 --compile-to="javascript" myfile.pl > myfile.js?
11:13 Elly or something?
11:13 autrijus currently it's
11:13 autrijus pugs -C Parrot myfile.pl > myfile.pir
11:13 autrijus pugs -C Haskell myfile.pl > myfile.hs
11:13 autrijus etc
11:13 Elly right
11:13 autrijus we don't yet have a javascript backend written
11:13 autrijus but iff we do, then yes, that's how it will look like.
11:14 Elly so will eval() work?
11:14 ToniEisner and that curently work on windows and linux the same way?
11:14 autrijus ToniEisner: yes
11:14 ToniEisner thkx
11:14 Elly I suppose not?
11:14 autrijus Elly: eval() will work once the compiler itself is ported from Haskell to Perl6.
11:14 autrijus (which is part of the plan)
11:14 Elly I meant in JavaScript
11:14 autrijus if that happens, then the compiler itself can be compiled to javascript to make eval() work.
11:15 Elly I wouldn't think it'd be possible to do a lot of the cooler perl stuff in JavaScript
11:15 autrijus because you will then have the entire compiler running on js.
11:15 autrijus not saying it will be fast :)
11:15 autrijus but should be possible.
11:15 Elly like threads and sockets and `` and qx()
11:15 Elly Wait, we are talking about the same language right?
11:15 Elly JavaScript?
11:15 Elly but there's whole masses of Perl6 that won't work on JS and can't be emulated
11:15 autrijus yes... javascript. if it's running inside a browser, then you won't have `` primitives
11:15 autrijus but if you're running inside SeaMonkey in priviledged mode
11:16 autrijus then you can do pretty much everything.
11:16 autrijus (remember much of the firefox extensions is written in javascript)
11:16 Elly ah, yeah
11:16 autrijus see for example JSSh, a shell server written in javascript.
11:16 Elly I thought you meant webpages would want to execute perl client-side via JS
11:17 autrijus they will, but then qx() will be forbidden
11:17 autrijus just like java applets in sandbox
11:18 Elly qx() and threads and sockets and open() and all the stuff that makes perl hacking worth doing ;(
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11:18 autrijus well, look at it this way... you are writing AJAX
11:18 Elly but I see what you mean with the priveleged thing
11:18 Elly AJAX?
11:18 autrijus instead of using two languages, one for server side and one for client side
11:19 autrijus wouldn't it be fun to use a single lang for both
11:19 autrijus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX
11:19 broquaint pugs -c HTML leetcode.pl > leetcode.html
11:19 autrijus maps.google.com type hackery
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11:20 theorbtwo (maps.google.com hacking)++
11:20 * theorbtwo gets an idea.
11:21 Elly heh, wow
11:22 Elly so perl6 will compile into a lot of different languages?
11:22 Elly some of which are themselves interpreted?
11:22 autrijus that is the current plan.
11:22 broquaint Perl6 doesn't really exist it's purely an Aristotelean concept.
11:22 autrijus I will at least see that it targets three: Parrot, Perl5, GHC
11:23 Elly will Perl6 compile into Perl6? :D
11:23 autrijus that is a good question :)
11:23 autrijus I'm interested in seeing it ultimately do
11:23 autrijus but that depends on other people who want to work toward that as well.
11:25 theorbtwo Hm, JSRef's parser isn't yacc-based.
11:25 autrijus (we need emitter not parser)
11:25 Elly I meant that as a joke ;\
11:25 Elly can you make it compile to a standalone binary?
11:25 autrijus Elly: pugscc foo.pl
11:25 autrijus already does that
11:25 autrijus and the resulting exe has no external deps.
11:25 theorbtwo Yeah, I know.  I need a parser, though, to make sense of maps.11.js.
11:26 autrijus oh :)
11:26 Elly sweet
11:26 Elly so Perl6 currently exists in a form in which I can code?
11:26 autrijus Elly: sure!
11:26 theorbtwo Yes is the short answer.
11:26 autrijus see the presentation slides in the left top corner of pugscode.org
11:26 Elly so perl6 is really going to kind of do everything
11:26 theorbtwo The slightly longer answer is svn co http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/
11:26 Elly compile to binaries, be a client-side language for web browsers, and be an all-around awesome language for everyone
11:26 theorbtwo Make easy things easy, and hard things possible, yes.
11:27 autrijus and also make the impossible just happen!
11:27 Odin- The longer answer is "depends on what you want to do"...
11:27 autrijus run infinite loop 10x faster!
11:27 broquaint Just stick the impossible in a junction and let the multiverse do the rest.
11:28 autrijus Elly: par.perl.org, my other project, let you pack perl5 into exe as well.
11:28 autrijus but enough advertisement... dinner, bbiab &
11:29 Elly I've seen par
11:29 Elly it's cool
11:29 nothing_pasta has quit IRC (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
11:29 theorbtwo (pugscc and par take quite different ways to do it, though.)
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11:30 JaffaCake has joined #perl6
11:31 JaffaCake Can anyone tell me how to find out the exact pugs command that is being run by the test harness for a particular test?
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12:11 svnbot6 r5560, iblech++ | * Usual svn properties (including svn:ignore for the module dirs).
12:11 svnbot6 r5560, iblech++ | * Added some more info to pugs::hack, section about the svn props.
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12:14 Elly why does svnbot6 append '++' to all nicks?
12:15 dudley karma iblech
12:16 Elly oh, perlbot keeps track of karma?
12:16 dudley jabbot did, I thought
12:17 Enveigler_ has joined #perl6
12:17 dudley perlbot, karma dudley
12:17 perlbot dudley doesn't have any karma
12:18 dudley well, there you go
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12:19 Elly perlbot, karma iblech
12:20 perlbot iblech doesn't have any karma
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12:25 nothingmuch perlbot: highest karma
12:25 perlbot The top 5 karma entries: tybalt89: 3, $|: 2, Yaakov: 2, hobbs: 2, ': 1
12:25 nothingmuch i think it was reset
12:26 nothingmuch autrijus had around 800 a month ago
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12:36 svnbot6 r5561, iblech++ | * Moved ext/POE to modules/POE, as it's 1. far too small for a ext/ and 2.
12:36 svnbot6 r5561, iblech++ |   doesn't work.
12:36 svnbot6 r5561, iblech++ | * Noted that change in pugs::hack.
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12:52 svnbot6 r5562, autrijus++ | * For methods, an extra *%_ is appended to the signature
12:52 svnbot6 r5562, autrijus++ |   at compilation time instead of binding time.
12:52 svnbot6 r5562, autrijus++ | * Also, methods does not implicitly extract $_ anymore.
12:53 autrijus preflight: please start another round of smoke
12:53 autrijus I'm working on ChangeLog
12:53 autrijus will push a new tarball
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12:54 nothingmuch seen stevan
12:55 nothingmuch perlbot: seen stevan?
12:56 nothingmuch okay, screw that
12:56 castaway_ .oO( lastlog stevan)
12:56 nothingmuch i need a volunteer to make a decision for me
12:56 gaal|work the answer's no!
12:56 castaway_ last seem 06:01 CEST
12:56 theorbtwo Try a coin, nothingmuch.
12:56 nothingmuch it's not yes/no
12:56 castaway_ s/seem/seen/
12:56 theorbtwo 23?
12:56 gaal|work the answer's mu!
12:57 nothingmuch Test::TAP::Model::Consolidated isa Test::TAP::Model
12:57 nothingmuch both need to have Test::TAP::Model::Colorful mixed in
12:57 nothingmuch optionally
12:57 nothingmuch how would I make it not very ugly?
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12:57 gaal|work why optionally?
12:58 nothingmuch because ::Colorful is in another package
12:58 nothingmuch I'm thinking ::Colorful just adds methods to Test::TAP::Model
12:59 nothingmuch but another way is to start using the wierd perl5 hacks like spiffy, mixin, or Class::Traits
12:59 gaal|work datetime has fails. is that okay?
12:59 gaal|work latest r
12:59 nothingmuch gaal|work: that's the dispatch problem
12:59 autrijus er, sorry, I didn't check in my round of test fixes
12:59 autrijus so the smoke will be bogus
13:00 autrijus r5563
13:00 gaal|work resmoke?
13:00 gaal|work -p?
13:00 autrijus resmoke on r5563
13:00 autrijus yeah
13:00 gaal|work ack
13:00 autrijus should be all pass
13:01 * nothingmuch is also starting a smoke
13:01 nothingmuch so what do you guys think WRT ::Colorful?
13:02 gaal|work how often are colorful methods called? is calling can impractical?
13:02 gaal|work how right is the coupling conceptualy? maybe offer a dummy plugin for when you don't have colorful?
13:03 svnbot6 r5563, autrijus++ | * huge set of test cleanup
13:03 nothingmuch gaal|work: they are called from the template
13:03 nothingmuch ->css_class
13:03 castaway_ if TTMConsolidated isa TTModel then load it in TTModel, on demand?
13:03 nothingmuch or the percentage color thing
13:03 nothingmuch castaway_: i'm inclined to do that, but I'm worried about pollution
13:03 gaal|work so mix in a dummy when you don't have color?
13:03 nothingmuch a dummy?
13:03 gaal|work noop plugin
13:04 castaway_ polution of methodnames in space?
13:04 gaal|work which has the same methods as colorful
13:04 gaal|work but doesn't do anything
13:04 castaway_ the question is a bit vague, IMO.. we've no idea how these things are normally used, or now colorful changes them
13:06 castaway_ s/now/how/
13:06 theorbtwo There's no reason not to have the colorful bit always in there.
13:06 theorbtwo What colors they show up as should be in the CSS anyway, not set on each element.
13:06 theorbtwo So really it's just a matter of getting the class name, which isn't a specific enough operation that it needs to be segregated.
13:06 gaal|work ext\Test-Builder\t\010_Test_Builder.t : pugs: ../../pugs.exe: runProcess: does not exist (No such file or directory)
13:07 gaal|work ext\Test\t\3-output.t : '.' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. # Looks like you failed 1 tests of 1
13:07 gaal|work the first one is a platform oversight, need {_exe} i gues
13:07 mr_ank has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:08 gaal|work ext\WTemplate\t\basic.t fails 2, too
13:09 mr_ank has joined #perl6
13:09 autrijus gaal|work: it's a slash / backslash problem
13:09 autrijus please fix away
13:09 autrijus WTemplate worksforme
13:09 autrijus what's the failure?
13:11 gaal|work oh: no parrot in path
13:11 autrijus !
13:11 autrijus oh, please apply the same skip_rest fix as t/rules
13:11 autrijus then
13:11 autrijus and/or t_disabled/rules
13:11 * autrijus is still changelogging
13:12 pasteling "gaal" at 212.179.43.225 pasted "wemplate" (15 lines, 632B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11733
13:12 gaal|work but wait no, different shells
13:13 gaal|work huh, no. same error in w32 shell.
13:14 gaal|work autrijus, which fix?
13:14 autrijus if(eval('!("a" ~~ /a/)')) { skip_rest "skipped tests - rules support appears to be missing";
13:14 autrijus }
13:14 autrijus oh and exit too
13:15 gaal|work fix alek
13:15 gaal|work ok
13:18 nothingmuch http://www.lscheffer.com/bf2malbolge.html
13:19 gaal|work no way
13:19 * gaal|work is reminded of the worlds hardest programming challenge
13:20 autrijus mm?
13:20 integral is it ok to commit a fix for `make profiled` to Makefile.PL at this stage? (to make it work with the precomp prelude)
13:20 gaal|work http://www.livejournal.com/users/gaal/2003/09/10/
13:20 autrijus integral: sure!
13:20 * autrijus stresses again there is no freeze in pugs development
13:20 integral is a release close?
13:21 autrijus very
13:21 autrijus a preflight tarball will be up as soon as I'm done with changelogging and gaal done with the two fixes
13:21 autrijus (trivial skip_rest)
13:22 gaal|work autrijus, does 010_test_builder workforyou? i have the path ..\..\pugs.exe but it stll fails.
13:23 autrijus gaal|work: it worksforme but it skips that
13:23 autrijus I'm tempted to just skip that test.
13:23 gaal|work oh! hmmm.
13:23 autrijus skip_rest it?
13:23 autrijus for now
13:23 gaal|work k, sec
13:24 gaal|work but line 58 isn't skipped on your version
13:24 gaal|work my $res = system ....
13:25 autrijus just skip_rest and exit in line 57.
13:25 autrijus I think.
13:25 svnbot6 r5564, bsmith++ | Fixed `make profiled` to also build the precompiled prelude.
13:26 gaal|work done as r5565.
13:26 gaal|work starting new smoke?
13:26 gaal|work or waiting for tarball?
13:27 autrijus wait for tarball :)
13:27 * gaal|work considers a ZT interpreter
13:28 nothingmuch oof!
13:28 autrijus wow, this release took a full month
13:28 nothingmuch inheritence scheme is more complicated, i forgot
13:28 autrijus last one was june 13rd
13:28 autrijus er, 13th.
13:29 nothingmuch june tenthird
13:29 dudley autrijus: slowing down in your old age? :-)
13:30 nothingmuch if anyone is willing to help me discuss this problem, please /msg
13:30 nothingmuch i hate inheritence
13:30 svnbot6 r5565, gaal++ | skip problem tests
13:31 nothingmuch i think delegation support is the thing I'm most happy about in p6
13:31 gaal|work "delegation support"?
13:31 nothingmuch has $.attr handles <method>>
13:31 Limbic_Region no preflight announcement in the topic???
13:31 nothingmuch etc etc
13:32 Limbic_Region salutations all btw
13:32 autrijus dudley: no, mostly because huge architecure changes :)
13:33 nothingmuch pugs has more inertia than any project I've ever seen
13:35 mja has joined #perl6
13:36 gaal|work i have to go to another meeting soon - i'll try to get another smoke going if the tarball lands by then - does anyone volunteer to test 'make install' for safety?
13:36 autrijus nothingmuch: dead project has infinite inertia
13:36 gaal|work inert, ja.
13:36 dudley I can try out 'make install'
13:37 elmex has joined #perl6
13:37 gaal|work cool, thanks. dudley++
13:37 nothingmuch autrijus: i don't understand that claim
13:38 meppl has joined #perl6
13:38 _Jonathan_ nothingmuch: Inertia is a measure of how hard it is to get something to move...and dead projects don't move. :)
13:39 integral or a measure of how hard it is to slow down...
13:39 QtPlatypus _Jonathan_: Inertia is a mesure of how hard it is to change an obects velosity.
13:39 _Jonathan_ OK, this is why I only just scraped through physics. :)
13:40 iwlx is now known as wilx
13:40 nothingmuch _Jonathan_: ah, ok
13:41 gaal|work meeting &
13:41 autrijus nothingmuch: you can't move a dead project, hence it has the most intertia
13:42 QtPlatypus pugs has alot of momentem.
13:44 autrijus uploading
13:45 Limbic_Region some may say that Pugs has reached critical mass
13:45 Limbic_Region which IMO it has
13:45 autrijus I'd rather that it had reached critical energy
13:45 autrijus but wait, they are interchangeable
13:45 Limbic_Region heh
13:46 autrijus eta 1min for upload
13:46 Limbic_Region well - I wasn't talking about the connatation for nuclear reactions or halting the expanding universe
13:46 * _Jonathan_ wishes he could convert some of his mass into energy...
13:46 autrijus that's what exercise is for
13:46 svnbot6 r5566, autrijus++ | * Preflight #1!
13:47 _Jonathan_ Hey, I'm trying. Gym, walking holiday...
13:47 _Jonathan_ Seems my smokes are broken due to me having an out of date copy of some module...
13:48 autrijus http://perlcabal.org/~autrijus​/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.8-pre1.tar.gz
13:48 autrijus 1308325 sha1(9b13ea64b60ed1a5e4de14356e77c3f573c4315e)
13:48 autrijus somebody /topic it
13:48 clkao autrijus: did you see my error yesterday?
13:48 autrijus clkao: p5 error?
13:48 clkao can't run any test, it says can't find test.pm
13:48 clkao no, pure pugs
13:49 autrijus oh. if it's during my sleep
13:49 autrijus then it's likely due to rafl's changes
13:49 autrijus it should be fine now
13:49 clkao k
13:50 Limbic_Region changes topic to: We are in Preflight #1http://perlcabal.org/~autrijus​/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.8-pre1.tar.gz | Chip needs help!!! http://www.geeksunite.net | http://pugscode.org/ <Overview Journal Logs> | http://pugs.kwiki.org | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6
13:50 Maddingue has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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13:53 kolibrie help? my 'svk up' says: Syncing //mirror/pugs(/mirror/pugs) in /var/projects/pugs to 5138.
13:53 kolibrie what does that mean?
13:53 kolibrie but it does nothing
13:54 Limbic_Region depending on your version of svk - you may have to sync and then up
13:54 * Limbic_Region found this out the hard way
13:54 autrijus kolibrie: you may want "svk pull".
13:54 autrijus actually, you certainly want that :)
13:54 autrijus "svk up" is an offline operation.
13:54 kolibrie aha
13:54 kolibrie doing something now
13:54 autrijus because the repository is at your local hard drive
13:55 kolibrie autrijus: thanks
13:55 autrijus np :)
13:55 Limbic_Region heh - so svk pull does a svk sync and a svk up in 1 operation?
13:55 autrijus changes topic to: Preflight #1: http://perlcabal.org/~autrijus​/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.8-pre1.tar.gz  | http://pugscode.org | http://pugs.kwiki.org | Paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | http://www.geeksunite.net
13:55 Limbic_Region hmmm - I guess I should update my update script then
13:56 autrijus Limbic_Region: yes, and if you are working with local branch, then it also does a merge.
13:56 dudley how do you commit w/svk, svk push?
13:56 autrijus (from vendor trunk to local branch)
13:56 autrijus dudley: for mirror path, "svk ci" will commit back
13:56 autrijus if you have local branch, then svk ci will ci to hard disk
13:56 autrijus then svk push will push it back.
13:56 Limbic_Region svk ci -m "your message"
13:57 dudley cool.
13:57 autrijus # http://perlcabal.org/~autrijus/svk-overview.png
13:58 * dudley eagerly anticipates the exploding hard drive from 'make install'
13:58 iblech has joined #perl6
13:59 autrijus clkao: set perlcabal.org to svk.elixus.org whitelist?
13:59 autrijus greetings iblech
14:00 iblech Hi :)
14:00 iblech autrijus: http://linide.sourceforge.n​et/pugs-svngraph-6.2.8.png
14:01 brentdax has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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14:01 dudley 'make install' works just fine
14:01 autrijus cool!
14:01 autrijus I checked in some minor ChangeLog fix
14:02 autrijus people with english-fu please proofread
14:02 autrijus (r5567)
14:02 autrijus iblech: cool, still nicely linear
14:03 castaway_ english-fu, at last, one I can actually claim :9
14:03 svnbot6 r5567, autrijus++ | * META.yml and ChangeLog cleanup
14:04 nothingmuch given a few smoke reports
14:04 nothingmuch and the conslidated view
14:04 nothingmuch you typically want to distinguish between them
14:04 nothingmuch along axes like revision, platform, build options, etc
14:05 nothingmuch does anybody think they can take in N yaml reoprts, and programmatically create a distinguishing string
14:07 nothingmuch it's simple for simple cases:
14:07 scook0 has quit IRC ("Leaving")
14:07 nothingmuch take N reports, generate a list of attrs, for revision, platform, etc
14:08 hlen has joined #perl6
14:08 nothingmuch and take away all the fields that are the same for them all
14:09 jp-autark smoke for pre1-tarball: http://home.ifi.uio.no/~davidra/smoke.html
14:09 svnbot6 r5568, iblech++ | ChangeLog -- Fixed one grammatico.
14:10 * QtPlatypus triggers a new error "No entries on IntReg_Stack!"
14:10 SM_ax has quit IRC ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.8/20050513]")
14:11 theorbtwo Whee, fun.
14:11 theorbtwo Parrot, I take it?
14:11 Maddingue has joined #perl6
14:11 QtPlatypus pugs has gained  a majour speed boost.
14:12 Limbic_Region runtime anyway
14:12 * Limbic_Region is still waiting for the compile to finish
14:12 * QtPlatypus nods to theorbtwo "I think so, most likely in PGE"
14:12 nothingmuch also reload my smoke test occasionally
14:13 nothingmuch does anybody think they could do the YAML thing?
14:13 broquaint has quit IRC ("Reboot! & lunch")
14:14 * Limbic_Region starts nmake test on preflight #1 (Win32 with no bells and whistles i.e. p5, haskell, parrot)
14:14 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - what is it you want again
14:14 * Limbic_Region is up for a p5 task if that's what is on the table
14:14 nothingmuch it is
14:14 nothingmuch the yaml_harness produces a big structure
14:15 nothingmuch given N such structures, i'd like a small snippet of code that goes through them
14:15 nothingmuch and creates a distinguishing string for each
14:15 nothingmuch it does this by comparing platform, revision, arch, settings, etc
14:15 nothingmuch and then strips off everything that's the same
14:15 Limbic_Region ok
14:16 nothingmuch ideally you have a 10 char string that is humanly distinct per report
14:16 Limbic_Region where everything the same means everything across all N structures?
14:16 nothingmuch yes
14:16 nothingmuch if you have an idea on add more DWIMmery, that's good
14:17 Limbic_Region let me explain what I think you are after in my own words
14:17 Limbic_Region have you confirm/deny
14:17 Limbic_Region and then ask a question or two
14:18 nothingmuch sire
14:18 nothingmuch sure
14:18 Limbic_Region you have a base set of qualities that are going to be the same across all N structures
14:18 Limbic_Region you want a 10 char string that can be generated that says how any given structure differes from those base qualities
14:18 nothingmuch so far so good
14:19 nothingmuch (WRT to other structures in the same set)
14:19 Limbic_Region is the base set of qualities ever expected to change?
14:19 kolibrie autrijus: ChangeLog looks good to me (english-foo-wise)
14:19 autrijus cool
14:20 autrijus jp-autark: can you sync up and rerun t/unspecced/p5/array.t t/unspecced/p5/method.t by hand?
14:20 * nothingmuch is amazed by his cat
14:20 nothingmuch a week ago I gave him a bath
14:20 nothingmuch ofcourse, he didn't really like it
14:20 wilx has quit IRC (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
14:20 nothingmuch but started having some fleas
14:21 nothingmuch appearantly more than we thought, becuase all the past week, despite the trauma, he has been so happy and calm
14:21 Aankhen`` " Implicit variables like `$^a` now only work in bare blocks"
14:21 svnbot6 r5569, autrijus++ | * TODOify failing perl 5 tests, courtesy jp-autark
14:21 Aankhen`` Shouldn't that be "placeholder variables"?
14:21 nothingmuch why is that?
14:21 jp-autark autrijus: how do you run that by hand?
14:21 nothingmuch sub { $^a + $^b }; # why is this bad?
14:22 autrijus jp-autark: ./pugs t/...
14:22 iblech jp-autark: ./pugs t/.../
14:22 autrijus nothingmuch: it's against the spec.
14:22 Limbic_Region jp-autark - if you haven't done make install then you will need to copy Test.pm to the same location as pugs executable
14:22 Aankhen`` That aside, aren't they "placeholder" variables?
14:22 nothingmuch i mean, why does the spec forbid it?
14:22 jp-autark ah...
14:22 gaal|work rehi
14:22 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - any response to my YAML question project?
14:22 autrijus nothingmuch: because implicit vars are meant only for places where there cannot be formal params.
14:22 autrijus nothingmuch: it's one or the other
14:22 gaal|work preflight status?
14:22 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: the base set of qualities is pugs dependant
14:22 autrijus gaal|work: see topic
14:23 nothingmuch sorry, i missed it
14:23 nothingmuch autrijus: fair enough
14:23 gaal|work worth starting that one?
14:23 autrijus nothingmuch: if you want to pushback to p6l, please go ahead. I'm fine either way
14:23 nothingmuch nonono
14:23 autrijus gaal|work: sure, known 5 failures with p5embed
14:23 nothingmuch enough pointless discussions
14:23 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - if the qualities in common is expected to change I don't see how it is possible to describe the differences in a 10 char string
14:23 gaal|work right. d/ling
14:23 autrijus I thought p6l stands for point-6-less
14:23 jp-autark autrijus: array: 2/11 TODO, method: 1/13 TODO
14:23 autrijus jp-autark: good, that's as expected
14:24 autrijus so it's otherwise clean for you
14:24 * autrijus waits for Limbic_Region and gaal|work's report to trickle in
14:24 * Limbic_Region is on builtins/strings/length ATM
14:25 Limbic_Region but it is moving right along now
14:25 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - you get my point?
14:25 Limbic_Region if I change the YAML structures to automobiles
14:25 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: one second, mom calling from england
14:25 Limbic_Region and say they all have this type of engine, this model, etc
14:25 Limbic_Region k
14:25 wilx has joined #perl6
14:25 Limbic_Region will continue to type confusion though
14:25 Aankhen`` If anyone's editing the ChangeLog, please sync up and merge...
14:25 gaal|work compilation started. will GHC get -j 3 sometime?
14:26 Limbic_Region so I build a string that says what "extras" each individual car has and encode that in a 10 char string
14:26 svnbot6 r5570, Aankhen++ | * ChangeLog: two small edits.
14:26 svnbot6 r5571, iblech++ | util/livecd/mklivecd.pl -- Adjusted default initrd size again, as pugs gains size :)
14:26 iblech autrijus: http://linide.sf.net/pugs-livecd-6.2.8.iso
14:26 autrijus thanks!
14:27 Limbic_Region my program breaks if I start handling cars with a new add on I previously didn't know about
14:29 Limbic_Region now in oo/methods btw
14:29 brentdax_ has joined #perl6
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14:31 dudley Limbic_Region: optimized build?
14:32 Limbic_Region yes
14:32 Limbic_Region unfortunately, as a $work machine - Pugs has to compete for resources with - well $work stuff
14:33 nothingmuch bac
14:34 jhorwitz has joined #perl6
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14:34 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: i think the best solution is to have an algorithm, and a list of fields
14:34 nothingmuch the list of fields can be maintained
14:35 nothingmuch and the algorithm compares the fields in N yaml reports, and returns a hash of (string => structure)
14:35 gaal|work first pass build completed - about 9 minutes.
14:35 gaal|work i think "generating precomiled prelude" can be further golfed to "precompiling prelude", no? :)
14:36 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - I don't have any issues with the project if "what is in common" is static because then I only have to worry about describing the differences - which will have a decoder
14:36 autrijus gaal|work: no, just keep it that way :)
14:36 autrijus there are two "generating" messages anyway
14:36 Limbic_Region if the "what is in common" changes - not only does the encoded string change but so does the legend
14:36 Limbic_Region I don't have a problem with that either (programmatically speaking)
14:36 nothingmuch the string should be independant, and is throwaway
14:36 nothingmuch let me show you an example
14:37 gaal|work yay, second pass isn't too bad, just ~2 minutes
14:37 Limbic_Region but I was under the impression that this was supposed to be human readable
14:37 nothingmuch yes
14:37 nothingmuch only humans read it, not machines
14:37 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/example.html
14:37 nothingmuch under dummy.t you should have two strings
14:37 nothingmuch the user provides them
14:37 nothingmuch since our yaml_harness has more data than just the test results, we can create a string
14:38 nothingmuch like have the first line be 'PUGS_EMBED=""' and the second have 'PUGS_EMBED="perl5"'
14:38 nothingmuch if that was the only difference
14:38 Limbic_Region I understand that just fine
14:38 nothingmuch so i don't see the problem
14:39 Limbic_Region ok - let me try and explain my perspective
14:39 nothingmuch okay
14:39 Limbic_Region let's say each position in the 10 char string stands for a different attribute
14:39 Limbic_Region i.e. what type of imbedding is enabled
14:40 Limbic_Region 0 = none, 1 = haskell, 2 = parrot, 3 = p5, 4 = p5 + haskell (all the way up to 7 using the unix file permissions mode)
14:40 Limbic_Region that would be a single position in the string
14:40 broquaint has joined #perl6
14:40 Limbic_Region you have a decoder so you can go look up what that information represents
14:40 nothingmuch 10 chars is not the absolute limit
14:41 Limbic_Region right - not the issue I am concerned about
14:41 Limbic_Region adding more types of embedding is easy - since the single position can be any readable ascii character
14:41 QtPlatypus Limbic_Region: Wouldn't it be better to have 4=p5 and 3=haskall+parrot ?
14:41 nothingmuch i think if it's too much info it should have '+p5, win' and if there's only one diff, like platform the string should be 'windows'
14:41 Limbic_Region QtPlatypus - was just an example
14:42 * QtPlatypus nods.
14:42 nothingmuch i don't want the users to twiddle bits in their heads
14:42 nothingmuch i want a simple readable, freeform bit of text that says how this report differs from the others
14:43 Limbic_Region you mean how this individual report in side this larger individual report
14:43 Limbic_Region not - this individual report from any other individual report inside any other larger report
14:43 nothingmuch yes
14:43 nothingmuch no, not the former
14:43 Limbic_Region see - that's what I was confused about
14:43 nothingmuch okay
14:43 nothingmuch err, i created more confusion
14:44 Limbic_Region if one overal report needs to stand against another and stuff can change inbetween I was at a loss
14:44 nothingmuch the string needs to be distinct only for the bunch of reports in this consolidated report
14:44 gaal|work ext\Test\t\3-output.t: '.' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
14:44 Limbic_Region k
14:44 gaal|work didn't i fix that?
14:44 Limbic_Region that seems doable nothingmuch
14:44 nothingmuch if one overall report needs to stand against another the strings are regenerated
14:44 nothingmuch the world-distinct data is already in the YAML
14:44 nothingmuch we don't need to reformat it
14:45 Limbic_Region so in theory - every single attribute needs to have a way of being described simply
14:45 Limbic_Region even though in most cases there will be a large overlap
14:46 Limbic_Region the algorithm needs to be able to handle unexpected changes
14:46 nothingmuch what are unexpected changes?
14:46 Limbic_Region make test almost complete btw
14:46 Limbic_Region things like a brand new feature
14:47 Limbic_Region ok - so where can I get my hands on the YAML
14:47 autrijus gaal|work: I can't duplicate that -- please hunt it down or disable the test
14:48 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: yaml_harness produces them
14:48 gaal|work on it
14:48 Limbic_Region autrijus - sifting through the results now
14:48 gaal|work may be lineendings
14:49 Limbic_Region All tests successful, 89 subtests skipped.
14:49 Limbic_Region Files=354, Tests=6029, 1319 wallclock secs ( 0.00 cusr +  0.00 csys =  0.00 CPU)
14:49 Limbic_Region the module test results didn't fair quite so well
14:49 nothingmuch the modules tests are all passing except for WTemplate
14:49 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status/ <-- 20 mins ago
14:50 nothingmuch a new one should finish shortly
14:50 gaal|work oh, no, the test is expected to pass unexpectedly, but it only TODOs.
14:50 gaal|work heh.
14:52 gaal|work ahhh, i think stderr isn't being captured.
14:52 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "make test results for preflight" (27 lines, 1.3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/11734
14:52 gaal|work 2>&1 isn't portable.
14:53 gaal|work btw, anyone else getting this (just a warning)? t\pugsrun\09-dash-uppercase-c.t  *** Useless use of a constant in void context:    VInt 1
14:53 Elly has quit IRC ()
14:53 gaal|work autrijus, shall i skip the Test test?
14:57 autrijus gaal|work: do so, then
14:59 gaal|work done as r5572. all other tests OK.
14:59 svnbot6 r5572, gaal++ | skipping unportable test
15:00 gaal|work i see a minor issue: pugs -V gives all paths with the correct separator ( \ )
15:01 gaal|work except for "sourcedir", which uses /
15:01 gaal|work hey! interactive mode works!!!
15:01 gaal|work someone++
15:01 putter Should we say something about the
15:01 putter /usr/lib64/perl5/5.8.5/x86_64-lin​ux-thread-multi/CORE/pp.h:130:1: warning: "RETURN" redefined
15:01 putter in INSTALL?
15:01 _Jonathan_ has quit IRC ("Leaving")
15:01 autrijus putter: it's harmless no?
15:02 putter yes
15:02 autrijus well, if you feel like saying something in INSTALL, go ahead, but I doubt people will look at it
15:02 putter ok
15:02 putter I note the worrisome
15:02 putter /tmp/ghc16620.hc: In function `PugsziAST_zdwcharInc_entry':
15:02 putter /tmp/ghc16620.hc:39: warning: cast to pointer from integer of different size
15:03 putter this with a recent 6.4.1 stable x86_64 snapshot.
15:03 autrijus src/Pugs/AST.hs:charInc x   = chr $ 1 + ord x
15:03 autrijus must be this.
15:03 autrijus not very worrisome if you ask me
15:03 autrijus but it does look like a GHC issue
15:04 gaal|work are we stil waiting on smokes?
15:05 putter any time ghc is getting 64 bit warnings I worry, as until recently 64 bit compatibility has been... a work in progress.
15:05 putter Hmm, also
15:05 putter /tmp/ghc16620.hc: In function `__stginit_PugsziRunziPerl5_':
15:05 putter /tmp/ghc16620.hc:3117: warning: implicit declaration of function `getStablePtr'
15:05 autrijus gaal|work: no, not anymore; #2 will be up in a bit
15:06 gaal|work eeek, 1058 todos :)
15:06 autrijus actually our todo rate is quite constant.
15:06 autrijus (and improving gradually)
15:06 putter Err, what is this
15:06 putter /usr/bin/perl -Iinc util/version_h.pl src/Pugs/pugs_version.h
15:06 putter Can't exec "svk": No such file or directory at util/version_h.pl line 26.
15:06 putter Not writing src/Pugs/pugs_version.h because 0 == 0
15:07 putter in make test
15:07 autrijus eek.
15:08 mkirank has joined #perl6
15:09 JaffaCake putter: I think the gcc warning is harmless, but I'll look into it at some point
15:09 * autrijus suddenly notices JaffaCake in #perl6
15:09 autrijus er, hi :)
15:10 * JaffaCake is wrestling with pugs today
15:10 JaffaCake hiya ;)
15:10 JaffaCake I'm trying to reproduce that GHC bug, and having no luck
15:10 autrijus which one? EVACUATED or fromJust?
15:11 JaffaCake EVACUATED.. I gave up on the fromJust one
15:11 JaffaCake I get test failures for t/oo/destruction, but not the EVACUATED crash
15:12 autrijus right because as I said we already ditched performGC
15:12 putter JaffaCake: I may have unrecoverably lost it when I did a recent ghc install, but until then I had a tar file of a pugs build which repeatably did fromJust.
15:12 JaffaCake I've checked out the exact revision from SVN as per the bug report
15:12 autrijus oh. hrm
15:12 JaffaCake r4916
15:13 JaffaCake now trying with r4733, which is another report of a crash
15:13 putter JaffaCake: and fyi, the ghc warnings were from 6.4.1.20050711 x86_64 binary stable snapshot.  (src didnt build)
15:13 JaffaCake it's difficult because our x86 boxes are running RH9, which has a too old version of perl
15:13 JaffaCake putter: thanks
15:14 autrijus (preflight #2 is uploading)
15:14 putter if you would ever like me to dustoff the fromJust generater and try something on it, just let me know.
15:14 Enveigler_ has joined #perl6
15:15 autrijus changes topic to: Preflight #2: http://perlcabal.org/~autrijus​/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.8-pre2.tar.gz | http://pugscode.org | http://pugs.kwiki.org | Paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | http://www.geeksunite.net
15:15 autrijus preflight #2: http://perlcabal.org/~autrijus​/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.8-pre2.tar.gz
15:16 autrijus 1308436 sha1(c84083d43fac3ac8f92114b8606669b30b90cdd6)
15:16 putter on #1 I have a dubious on t/unspecced/p5/method.t
15:16 autrijus putter: yes, that's cured
15:16 Khisanth so I guess the "make install" issue has been fixed?
15:16 autrijus I intend to push #2 out as the release
15:16 autrijus Khisanth: yes
15:16 autrijus but I'd still like a round of `make test install` to make sure it works as intended
15:17 autrijus so please test away
15:17 gaal|work (in)
15:17 putter on #1 I have a dubious on t/unspecced/p5/array.t
15:18 autrijus that's cured as well.
15:19 pasteling "gaal" at 212.179.43.225 pasted "build warning, no doubt platform dependant" (6 lines, 380B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11736
15:19 autrijus nod. just like putter's x8664 warning, not going to worry about it now
15:20 gaal|work ack
15:21 putter JaffaCake: oh, re ghc warnings, make (optimized).  looks like make unoptimized doesnt do it.
15:22 JaffaCake putter: your snapshot probably has the x86_64 native code generator, which is used for unoptimised, hence no gcc warnings
15:22 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/example.html
15:22 JaffaCake I merged the x86_64 NCG a couple of days ago
15:24 JaffaCake autrijus: is it likely that using hsplugins will make any difference?  or PUGS_EMBED?
15:25 nothingmuch btw, does anyone have any suggestions for improving the summary view?
15:25 nothingmuch (reload the link)
15:25 nothingmuch it's jjust not as pretty
15:26 autrijus JaffaCake: both unlikely. weird
15:26 autrijus JaffaCake: around that revision I could reliably reproduce the bug in freebsd 5 x86
15:26 vel has left
15:26 JaffaCake no joy with r4733 either
15:26 autrijus :(
15:27 autrijus anyone else than gaal smoking?
15:28 nothingmuch autrijus: always
15:28 nothingmuch but not the tarball
15:29 jp-autark yes, smoking.
15:29 dudley I will be shortly
15:29 putter we should nudge the syck folks to fix this:
15:29 putter gram.c:1115: warning: implicit declaration of function `sycklex'
15:30 putter src/syck/syck.c:492: warning: implicit declaration of function `syckparse'
15:30 autrijus I wonder if you get that from compiling syck's src tarball too
15:31 putter a previous rev had some actual errors from failing to declare things.  it looked like sloppiness.
15:32 * nothingmuch starts working on the smokeserver catalyst app
15:32 nothingmuch i will need lots of help
15:32 nothingmuch mostly for the HTML
15:32 nothingmuch has quit IRC ("leaving")
15:32 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
15:32 * nothingmuch has to stop typing /quit when he means /leave
15:34 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - sorry I have been trying to get yaml_harness running on my work machine
15:35 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: it's not urgent
15:38 Limbic_Region ok - now that I have YAML and Test::TAP::Model installed - how do I go about making yaml_harness.pl work?
15:38 svnbot6 r5573, autrijus++ | * move DateTime tests to t/* from t/Date/* to unbreak `make test`
15:38 svnbot6 r5574, autrijus++ | * do not run svk for version_h.pl in a release
15:38 svnbot6 r5575, autrijus++ | * remove the now-empty t/Date/ from ext/DateTime
15:38 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: read make smoke
15:38 nothingmuch i mean util/run-smoke.pl
15:38 Limbic_Region k
15:38 jp-autark smoke for pre2: http://home.ifi.uio.no/~davidra/smoke.html
15:39 nothingmuch it's basically like prove
15:39 Limbic_Region well - I was a bit confused by
15:39 Limbic_Region Can't exec /usr/bin/pugs at
15:39 Limbic_Region since this is a Win32 box
15:39 nothingmuch pugs? odd...
15:39 putter for the future, it might be nice to add a "happy" first line to Makefile.PL output, so the first thing folks see isnt
15:39 putter ghc-pkg: cannot find package plugins
15:39 nothingmuch set HARNESS_PERL ?
15:39 putter ;)
15:40 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - learning curve - will overcome - I have never ran a smoke before is all
15:41 alexe has left
15:42 putter It might also be worth mentioning the "test something, fail, *** message" idiom, to save first time users the "ok, something went wrong!  oh, hmm, the *** means it's (all?) ok, I think" experience.
15:44 sapper has joined #perl6
15:48 putter JaffaCake, btw, thanks for your work on x86_64 ghc.  it's appreciated.
15:49 JaffaCake no problem, it's fun :)
15:49 JaffaCake I have GHCi working now
15:49 gaal|work all green!
15:50 autrijus good. anyone else still smoking?
15:50 putter ! :)  # ghci
15:50 Aankhen`` putter++ # "happy" first line ;-)
15:50 Alias_ ew
15:51 Alias_ oh, _that_ smoking
15:51 * Alias_ hides head in shame and leaves channel
15:51 Alias_ has left "Leaving"
15:51 autrijus JaffaCake: ooh, and TH too, then
15:51 JaffaCake yup, though I haven't tried it yet
15:52 JaffaCake there's some slight flakiness: I can't dynamically load an object with a data reference to a shared library
15:53 putter What does
15:53 putter Not writing src/Pugs/pugs_version.h because 0 == 0
15:53 putter mean?
15:54 autrijus it means something that should be squashed. a sec
15:56 Limbic_Region autrijus - I had to rebuild to squash some more Config.pm errors - but as the entire main test suite passed last time I don't see any reason to suspect there would be new errors this time
15:56 svnbot6 r5576, autrijus++ | * add "happy" first line to Makefile.PL
15:56 svnbot6 r5576, autrijus++ | * version_h.pl should no longer print "0 == 0" message
15:56 svnbot6 r5576, autrijus++ |   (both reported by putter)
15:56 autrijus okay then.
15:57 autrijus let me do a round of sanity check before flying...
15:59 putter i still have two make tests runniing, but one of them is unoptimized, so it wont be done for bit.
16:00 autrijus ok. let me know as soon as the fast one is finished :)
16:00 putter :)
16:00 putter has anyone tried  make install  since yesterday's changes?
16:00 dudley yep, it worked fine
16:00 putter k
16:00 dudley preflight 1, that is...
16:01 Limbic_Region putter - that's the reason I had to rebuild from scratch (Pugs that is)
16:01 Limbic_Region me applauds AS for providing a zip file that doesn't require installation
16:01 Limbic_Region but they really should have done something more sane with the Config.pm and Config_heavy.pl
16:02 nothingmuch kungfuftr: ping
16:02 kungfuftr pong
16:02 putter has anyone run with an external parrot? (that's my unoptimized test which isnt going to happen)
16:02 autrijus I had.
16:03 putter k
16:03 Limbic_Region C:\TEMP\perl------------------------​----please-run-the-install-script---​-------------------------------\bin is not very helpful to have all your config paths set to
16:03 * Limbic_Region wanders off for food fully expecting pugs to be in flight soon
16:04 autrijus I'm only waiting for putter now :)
16:05 autrijus putter: where are you currently?
16:05 autrijus (which test, i.e.)
16:06 saorge has joined #perl6
16:08 putter #1 vs #2 delta - make test on #1 only ran t/.  make test on #2 is now off running ext/ tests.
16:08 putter #1 make test ended in
16:08 putter make: *** [test_dynamic] Error 255
16:08 autrijus #2 should fail in ext/Date/.
16:09 autrijus if that is the case, then we're all gree.
16:09 autrijus green.
16:09 autrijus I mean, ext/DateTime
16:09 autrijus (because I fixed and verified ext/DateTime/ as well as the other ext/*)
16:09 putter All tests successful, 49 subtests skipped.
16:09 putter Files=354, Tests=6029, 1689 wallclock secs (942.18 cusr + 16.86 csys = 959.04 CPU)
16:09 Enveigler_ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:09 autrijus oh, even better!
16:09 putter that's just t/, ext/ is still running.
16:09 autrijus after that, try "make install"?
16:10 slr has quit IRC ("later")
16:10 autrijus with sudo if needed
16:10 masak has left
16:10 putter yep,
16:10 putter FAILED--no tests were run for some reason.
16:10 putter make[1]: *** [test_dynamic] Error 9
16:10 putter make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/net1/perl6/pugspl/ext/DateTime'
16:10 putter make: *** [test] Error 2
16:10 autrijus good.
16:10 autrijus try make install?
16:11 putter eep.
16:11 autrijus it won't hose you I promise :)
16:12 * autrijus waits patiently
16:12 * dudley 'make install'ed just fine...
16:13 autrijus that should be fine, then
16:13 putter err, make -n install shows it installing into /usr/lib...  I'd really rather not... sorry... :(
16:13 autrijus that's fine :)
16:14 autrijus okay. fly!
16:14 autrijus changes topic to: Pugs 6.2.8 released! | http://pugscode.org | http://pugs.kwiki.org | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | http://www.geeksunite.net
16:15 autrijus    http://pugscode.org/dist/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.8.tar.gz
16:15 autrijus    SIZE = 1309147
16:15 autrijus    SHA1 = efd32419dcddba596044a42564936888a28b3c69
16:15 autrijus on PAUSE now.
16:15 autrijus release notes published on p6l, p6a, use.perl.
16:15 * autrijus cheers
16:15 Aankhen`` Yey!
16:15 Aankhen`` Pugs++
16:15 autrijus #perl6++
16:16 dudley woohoo!
16:16 Aankhen`` autrijus++
16:16 putter whoot! whoot!
16:16 dudley I'll second that, autrijus++
16:16 nothingmuch so I'm thinking the smoke server is like this:
16:16 nothingmuch there's an upload API for test.yml
16:16 Aankhen`` nothingmuch >> No, wrong, sorry. :-(
16:16 nothingmuch there's a report browsing interface
16:16 nothingmuch ?
16:16 kolibrie my 'make install' worked correctly too
16:16 Aankhen`` :-P
16:17 nothingmuch Aankhen``: context?
16:17 Aankhen`` [21:46:25] <nothingmuch> so I'm thinking the smoke server is like this:
16:17 autrijus 00:18  * CPAN upload: Perl6-Pugs-6.2.8 by AUTRIJUS
16:17 Aankhen`` It was a joke, actually. :-)
16:17 Aankhen`` I do these things occasionally.
16:17 nothingmuch ah, ok... i thought you were speaking about something else
16:17 autrijus thanks everybody for getting this release out.
16:17 nothingmuch okay, shut up now
16:17 autrijus I really need to sleep now. :-)
16:17 Aankhen`` SIR YES SIR
16:17 nothingmuch have a good one, autrijus!
16:17 Aankhen`` autrijus >> Sweet dreams!
16:17 kolibrie good night!
16:17 autrijus have fun!
16:17 * autrijus waves &
16:18 nothingmuch Aankhen``: what did I say?
16:18 putter minor note, make install rebuilds the Prelude on a fully make;make test'ed build.
16:18 Aankhen`` nothingmuch >> Er... "okay, shut up now"?
16:18 nothingmuch yes
16:18 Aankhen`` Good, we're both clear on that. :-D
16:18 nothingmuch it seems to me you're not listening
16:18 nothingmuch where's an op when you need one
16:18 acme autrijus++
16:18 dudley putter: mine didn't
16:18 Aankhen`` $Aankhen.lip.zip();
16:18 nothingmuch #perl6 doesn' thave enough power struggles
16:19 nothingmuch so anyway, there's this typical crud interface to reports
16:19 nothingmuch you can search and so forth
16:19 nothingmuch and here's the catch
16:19 nothingmuch it's like a shopping cart
16:19 nothingmuch you say 'add to list' or whatever
16:19 nothingmuch and various reports accumilate in a list
16:19 * putter putter runs tests on release...
16:19 nothingmuch and from your little list you get a consolidated graph
16:19 mjflick has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:20 putter good night autrijus
16:21 Aankhen`` nothingmuch >> Sounds good.
16:21 Aankhen`` BBIAF, dinner
16:21 Aankhen`` .
16:22 nothingmuch ciao Aankhen``
16:22 JaffaCake has left
16:24 kungfuftr nothingmuch: ullo?
16:24 nothingmuch kungfuftr: you helped make htmlmatrix pretty
16:24 nothingmuch now do it again: http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/example.html
16:25 kungfuftr nothingmuch: how so?
16:25 nothingmuch it's ugly
16:25 nothingmuch make it pretty
16:25 nothingmuch you have html+css fu
16:26 nothingmuch also have a look at the detail view: http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/detail.html
16:26 kungfuftr heh, i'm afraid my fiancee is visiting at the moment, so i'm quite busy at the minute
16:26 kungfuftr drop me an e-mail and i'll put it in my action list
16:26 nothingmuch damnit, is sex the only thing on your mind? what are you, some kind of animal?
16:26 nothingmuch you geeks ought to give up your lives, you know
16:26 putter Hmm, INSTALL doesnt actually say how to config the install to put it in place X.
16:27 kungfuftr nothingmuch: nope... getting the wedding organised is what's currently on my mind... =0)
16:28 Limbic_Region (wedding planning)--  # especially if you only have 6 weeks to do it in
16:29 kungfuftr Limbic_Region: i'm not far off that
16:29 putter Could someone with a windows box check http://jwcs.net/~jonathan/perl6/  http://jwcs.net/~jonathan/perl6/pugs-win32.zip  and just make sure that isnt a snapshot of a p5 smashing rev?
16:29 putter It doesnt actually say when/what version it is. :(
16:31 dudley putter: How do you configure the install prefix?
16:32 mkirank has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0/20041107]")
16:33 Aankhen`` dudley >> perl Makefile.PL PREFIX=/foo/
16:33 Limbic_Region putter - I finally got pugs compiling on my off-limits work machine - not going to look back now
16:33 Limbic_Region seriously - if no one has volunteered by the time this build finishes I will check it out
16:34 nothingmuch has quit IRC ("Changing server")
16:34 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
16:34 Arathorn has joined #perl6
16:34 * putter tries to find a version number in strings pugs.exe.  But the zip file dates are  07-13-05 15:59, so that looks ok.
16:34 dudley Otherwise it defaults to your perl5 prefix?
16:35 Arathorn congrats on the release, folks :)
16:35 putter as long as fetching is happening too...
16:36 Aankhen`` dudley >> I dunno.
16:36 mr_ank has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:36 dudley That's where it goes for me...
16:39 alinbsp has quit IRC ()
16:41 putter ok, re ~jonathan/perl6/, you dont actually do an install, yes?  so even if it's outdated, its not a threat.  does that sound reasonable?
16:43 putter Anyone know a way to ask a Makefile.PL where it plans on putting things by default?
16:45 Aankhen`` nmake -n install?
16:45 brentdax has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
16:45 putter Limbic_Region: does this sound reasonable? : re ~jonathan/perl6/, you dont actually do an install, yes?  so even if it's outdated, its not a threat?
16:45 larsen has joined #perl6
16:46 brentdax_ has joined #perl6
16:46 brentdax_ is now known as brentdax
16:46 kolibrie putter: I just look in the Makefile itself, after that has been generated
16:46 putter Aankhen``: :)  I can just see the INSTALL paragraph now, to install someplace other than the default, do perl Makefile.PL PREFIX=/foo/ .  To find out what the default is, read through make -n install.  lol :)
16:47 Aankhen`` Oh, for the user... :-P
16:47 putter :)
16:48 dmo has quit IRC ()
16:48 Limbic_Region putter - sorry, was AFK - you want to know if it is a dangerous version so you can warn ppl right?
16:49 rafl Where to get the release from? It' not yet on CPAN..
16:50 putter Limbic_Region: actually, I'm wondering if a prebuilt win32 thing is even capable of being dangerous.  if one doesnt run make install, then...  no?
16:51 putter rafl: http://pugscode.org/dist/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.8.tar.gz
16:52 rafl Thanks.
16:54 Limbic_Region putter - duh
16:55 Limbic_Region it is just a tar ball really that you unzip
16:55 putter Oh, that's... unfortunate.  PREFIX=mumble only affects _some_ of the installed files.  not others.  :(
16:55 Limbic_Region IIRC it doesn't have the test suite or a lot of of things that comes with a source checkout
16:56 Limbic_Region putter - IOW - it is only as dangerous as the guy unzipping it
16:56 mr_ank has joined #perl6
16:56 putter Limbic_Region: ok.  thanks.
16:56 putter :)
16:57 Garron has joined #perl6
16:58 putter The Heisenbug corollary to Murphy's Law, "if it wasn't tested, it doesn't work".   PREFIX wasnt tested, so...
16:59 putter dudley: just to make sure you saw, PREFIX doesnt actually work.
17:00 dudley putter: thanks.
17:00 dudley I won't commit INSTALL claiming that it does, then :-)
17:01 putter good call :)
17:04 broquaint has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:05 putter nothingmuch: re smoke, dont forget we'll likely have -BPerl5  rsn, and will need to smoke it.   Perhaps others too.
17:06 putter so at least three smokes near term, "vanilla", -Bpir, and -Bp5.
17:06 putter (something about calling haskell "vanilla" just seems very... odd)
17:07 Aankhen`` LOL.
17:10 putter dudley: or maybe commit, but add a big visible XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX - PREFIX doesnt work yet note?
17:10 dudley alright
17:12 sapper has quit IRC ("bye")
17:16 * putter needs to find a small ascii art picture of a pug for some future release celebration
17:16 nothingmuch putter: since I'm partly responsible for -BPerl5 i doubt it'll be rsn, but ;-)
17:16 nothingmuch this is Limbic_Region's responsibility now
17:16 putter :)
17:16 * nothingmuch loves delegation
17:17 PerlJam has quit IRC ("Lost terminal")
17:17 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - which responsibility is that?  The yaml_harness project?
17:17 sili hmmm
17:18 sili i reported a yaml bug and it was thoroughly ignored
17:18 putter though actually, if parrot development ends up being a bottleneck on -Bpir, -Bp5 may get more attention.
17:18 PerlJam has joined #perl6
17:18 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: yep
17:18 nothingmuch sili: YAML.pm? or YAML the standard?
17:18 sili YAML.pm
17:18 Limbic_Region ok - still trying to get it running
17:19 putter -Bpir to keep us honest, -Bp5 to be stable and visible
17:19 mr_ank has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:19 putter actually, what _is_ the state of -Bperl5?
17:20 putter (curious minds want to know(tm))
17:20 putter btw, dudley++ # assorted stuff
17:20 putter :)
17:20 dudley :-)
17:23 dudley Does 'make haddock' work?
17:24 Aankhen`` make haddock
17:24 Aankhen`` Apparently not...
17:26 Limbic_Region is there any particular reason every single make results in pugs.run being compiled, linking, the precompiled prelude, then the pugs run being compiled again, and then final linking?
17:26 putter nothingmuch: oh, btw, re having a one-line per rev "rXXXX - N tests, ....", to have a cumulative file on a server somewhere, so one could eyeball the state of tests across revisions.
17:26 Enveigler_ has joined #perl6
17:27 nothingmuch okayh
17:27 nothingmuch should be trivial
17:27 putter :)
17:27 nothingmuch want to write it as a Test::TAP::Model excercise?
17:27 * putter looks over his sholder; thinks "who is nm talking too..."
17:27 putter ;)
17:28 Limbic_Region putter - duck
17:28 putter where!?!
17:28 Aankhen`` And we have a winner! *points at Limbic_Region*
17:28 putter is it typed?
17:29 osfameron has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:30 * putter should really be doing a job search.  but "job search? projects?  job search? projects?  hmm.  maybe job search tomorrow."  :/
17:31 Aankhen`` pugs> ceil(1.5)
17:31 Aankhen`` *** Undeclared variable: "&do_ceil"
17:31 Aankhen``    at src\perl6\Prelude.pm line 290, column 9 - line 291, column 5
17:31 Aankhen`` Whaa?
17:31 Aankhen`` do_ceil does exist...
17:31 * dudley may need to do a job search soon if he doesn't quit playing with pugs during the day...
17:32 putter make haddock  worked for me... at least until it realized I didnt have `haddock` installed.
17:32 Aankhen`` Hmm, `round` and `ceil` both don't work...
17:32 dudley haddock doesn't build for me, so I can't test it
17:33 putter ah.
17:34 putter Aankhen``: they do unqualified sub calls inside of a class... which isnt the most stable thing at the moment.
17:34 svnbot6 r5577, dudley++ | Document PREFIX and more make targets in INSTALL, plus a little English-fu.
17:34 Aankhen`` Okay, I'll make them qualified calls.
17:37 Aankhen`` Bleh, not happening. >_>
17:38 mr_ank has joined #perl6
17:39 mr_ank has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:40 putter Here is a project for someone - a read-eval-print loop in p6.  the current one is a bit painful.
17:42 Aankhen`` Where is the current one?
17:45 putter re ceil, sigh, my little tests all work.  trying Num...
17:45 putter re repl, checking...
17:46 putter ./src/Pugs/Shell.hs
17:47 Aankhen`` Ah, I have no Haskell-fu.
17:48 saorge has quit IRC ("Leaving")
17:48 putter We'll need a p6 version at some point... might as well start now... :) (modulo the usual "unless the current state of pugs is getting in the way")
17:49 Limbic_Region nothingmuch - I think I have yaml_harness working now via make smoke
17:49 nothingmuch goody
17:49 Limbic_Region the yaml files will get outputted where?
17:49 Limbic_Region or rather - instead of running through the whole smoke - is it safe to break out and verify it is working or does it not write out files until the end?
17:50 putter wont be able to do pugs internal stuff, which makes it less useful, but could do nifty multi-line input, and persistant history, and ...
17:50 gaal|work has quit IRC ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
17:53 putter googling for perl read eval print loop turns up some things, including an old p6c question...  I thought there was a p5 faq on it, but I dont immediately see it...
17:54 putter could find and port a p5 one...
17:57 * Aankhen`` starts hacking on examples/eval.p6
17:58 mr_ank has joined #perl6
17:59 putter Aankhen``: for ceiling to work, one needs to make $^n an explicit arg, and qualify both do_ceil and round_gen.
17:59 putter or could leave them as a test of implicit args and unqualified calls working... :)
18:00 putter re examples/eval.p6, :-)
18:02 kungfuftr q
18:02 mr_ank has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:03 putter q?
18:06 meppl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
18:06 putter autrijus: fyi, make pirtest is sane in an unoptimized external parrot, but of dubious sanity in an optimized embedded parrot.  Errors of:
18:06 putter Null PMC access in get_string()
18:06 putter current instr.: 'EVAL_1' pc 10 (EVAL_1:7)
18:07 Aankhen`` Er... how do I get fallthrough behaviour in a `given`?
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18:08 putter ?
18:09 Aankhen`` I want to group a bunch of `when` clauses...
18:09 Aankhen`` Ah, `continue`.
18:09 putter nothingmuch: ping?
18:10 Aankhen`` Hmm... apparently I have to use &goto... how the heck?
18:10 Aankhen`` "You can explicitly break out of a when block (and its surrounding switch) early using the break verb. You can explicitly break out of a when block and go to the next statement by using continue. (Note that, unlike with C's idea of falling through, subsequent when conditions are evaluated. To jump into the next when block you must use a goto.)"
18:10 vcv its all goto in the end anyway ;)
18:10 Aankhen`` Yes, but I want an example of how to use it... do I give a specific line number?
18:10 vcv oh. hm.
18:11 putter labels arent implemented yet, i believe
18:12 nothingmuch putter: pongv
18:12 nothingmuch i can implement break, i know how
18:12 * nothingmuch spent all yesterday evening trying to fix next/redo/last
18:16 Aankhen`` What is the ord() value for ^Z?
18:21 putter 26
18:21 putter perl -e 'print ord("\cZ");'
18:21 Aankhen`` Thanks.
18:22 putter np
18:23 putter nothingmuch: so, what is the state of -Bp5?  what's done, what needs to be?
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18:27 Aankhen`` pugs> chr(26)
18:27 Aankhen`` ?
18:27 Aankhen`` Erm, that is a "right arrow" there.
18:27 Aankhen`` It doesn't seem to recognise it as "^Z".
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18:28 kolibrie anyone seen this error building pugs with emb parrot and perl5?
18:28 kolibrie /tmp/ghc9183.hc: In function `__stginit_PugsziRunziPerl5_':
18:28 kolibrie /tmp/ghc9183.hc:3223: warning: implicit declaration of function `getStablePtr'
18:28 dudley That looks familiar...
18:28 kolibrie then a few lines later I get:
18:28 kolibrie Linking ...
18:28 kolibrie /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lperl
18:28 kolibrie collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
18:28 kolibrie make: *** [pugs] Error 1
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18:29 kolibrie builds just fine with emb parrot alone
18:29 kolibrie so I think it is a perl5 thing
18:30 dudley hmmm, this last one built just fine.
18:30 Aankhen`` gaal, you around?
18:31 kolibrie I'm on r5576
18:31 dudley oh, wait, there it is.
18:31 dudley no linking problems, though
18:32 kolibrie so the linking problem is something else
18:33 nothingmuch putter: p6 on p5 requires an implementation of the runtime
18:33 nothingmuch that is, containers, the object model, etc
18:33 nothingmuch (that has good progress)
18:33 nothingmuch (but we still need a lot of things)
18:33 kolibrie I also have this warning, which may or may not be related:
18:33 kolibrie /usr/lib/perl/5.8/CORE/pp.h:134:1: warning: "RETURN" redefined
18:34 nothingmuch and the PIL to p5 compiler, that just generates p5 code that uses the runtime, and does the actions described in the PIL
18:34 nothingmuch this is stalling
18:34 dudley kolibrie:  it looks that way. I'm on r5577 BTW
18:34 putter perl -e 'print chr(26);'|less  shows ^Z
18:34 dudley kolibrie: But 5577 only updated INSTALL
18:34 putter ./pugs -e 'say chr(26);' |less  too
18:35 putter kolibrie: the  /tmp/ghc9183.hc warning should be unrelated to the link failure.
18:35 kolibrie I'm mostly just concerned about the link failure
18:35 Aankhen`` Hmm, it does here too...
18:36 Aankhen`` But the terminal itself only shows a right arrow.
18:36 putter do you have a libperl around?  (some os/versions dont have one)
18:36 kolibrie putter: where do I look for libperl?
18:37 kolibrie /usr/lib/libperl.so.5.8
18:37 kolibrie /usr/lib/libperl.so.5.8.7
18:37 nothingmuch gaal et al, please try the darcs repo versions of TTH
18:37 nothingmuch i want to make a release
18:37 putter /usr/lib/perl5/5.?.?/mumble/CORE/libperl.so
18:38 putter maybe?
18:38 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.wooblin​g.org/Test-TAP-HTMLMatrix/ and http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-Model/ contain head revisions
18:39 kolibrie putter: don't have any under perl5, but do in plain /usr/lib
18:39 kolibrie see above
18:39 * Juerd just read two weeks of autrijus' journal
18:39 putter hmm, do you need a link to  /usr/lib/libperl.so.5.8 from /usr/lib/libperl.so for it to be found (don't remember)
18:39 kolibrie hmm, could try that
18:39 Juerd The speed at which things go here is even more impressive if you're away for a while.
18:40 Aankhen`` Hi Juerd.
18:40 nothingmuch hola Juerd
18:40 dudley Alright, enough pretending to work for me. Adios!
18:40 putter no, it doesnt look like you do.
18:40 Juerd Don't consider me back yet, by the way
18:41 Aankhen`` Hrm... I need to store a value in a variable and print out the `.perl` version of it, but since it's in a variable, I get a '\' in front of it; is there any way to avoid that?
18:41 dudley has quit IRC ()
18:41 putter so the next step is to figure out what your load path looks like.
18:41 * kolibrie listens
18:42 Juerd #  multi foo { ... } is now a shorthand for multi sub foo { ... }
18:42 Juerd good! I was expecting that :)
18:42 * nothingmuch patiently waits for 'sub foo is now a shorthand for multi sub foo'
18:43 Juerd Well, I wouldn't mind full mmd
18:43 * putter putter looks at make file trace to figure out who's doing what...
18:43 nothingmuch my semantics proposal (docs/notes/mmd_match_order.txt) was sort of warnocked
18:43 nothingmuch a thread followed
18:44 nothingmuch but I think that still no one really knows what perl6's mmd will look like
18:44 nothingmuch were you here at the time, Juerd?
18:45 Juerd I don't know
18:45 Juerd My memory is extremely bad
18:45 nothingmuch in any case, i'd be grateful for some feedback
18:45 Juerd Something is happening to me and all I know is that it's not good.
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18:47 putter kolibrie: take a look at the make output... there should be lines with both -lperl and various -L/someplace.  btw, what os?
18:47 mr_ank has joined #perl6
18:47 kolibrie putter: debian
18:47 mr_ank has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:47 putter call - bbiab
18:48 mr_ank has joined #perl6
18:48 kolibrie perlbot nopaste
18:48 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
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18:51 pasteling "kolibrie" at 66.239.158.2 pasted "ghc ... -lperl ... -L... line" (1 line, 1.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/11740
18:53 kolibrie putter: do I need to put a link to my libperl in one of the -L paths?
18:59 kolibrie putter: adding link to /usr/lib/perl/5.8/CORE did not help :(
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19:10 gaal Aankhen``, pong?
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19:25 putter kolibrie: ok, sorry, where were we...
19:27 kolibrie putter: pasted the ghc line, trying to figure out where libperl needs to be
19:27 kolibrie no luck yet
19:27 putter ah, so it should be
19:28 putter /usr/lib/perl/5.8/CORE/libperl.so  yes?
19:28 kolibrie I put a link there
19:28 kolibrie but still gives same linking error
19:28 kolibrie well, I left the 5.8 on the end
19:29 putter try without?
19:29 gaal nothingmuch, ping
19:30 * kolibrie tries without
19:31 kolibrie no error yet... good sign
19:32 * putter 's fingers are crossed...
19:32 putter nothingmuch: how much is needed to just get as far as make test sanity?  in other words, as far as pir?
19:33 kolibrie woo hoo!
19:33 kolibrie putter: awesome!
19:33 nothingmuch uh, i dunno
19:33 putter :)
19:33 nothingmuch PIL -> perl 5 needs to be done
19:33 nothingmuch i think it's best done in haskell or perl5, but not in perl5
19:33 nothingmuch i think it's best done in haskell or perl5, but not in perl6
19:34 putter right.  is the plan... ah.  (preanswered questions:)
19:34 nothingmuch i think I want to give haskell perl5 generation a try
19:34 nothingmuch Code::Perl is not complete enough
19:34 nothingmuch and I think not flexible enough
19:35 gaal nothingmuch: i'm d/ling darcs for win now. what do you thing needs testing with THH?
19:35 nothingmuch PIL is not well suited enough for the job
19:35 gaal TTH
19:35 kolibrie so, if libperl.so is not in any of the -L paths, can 'make' detect that and work around, or prompt user?
19:35 nothingmuch err - try to run example.pl in TTH on stuff you care about
19:35 nothingmuch by ripping out it's logic
19:35 nothingmuch like two smoke results
19:35 putter "PIL is not well suited enough for the job"? huh?  I thought that was the core of the plan...?
19:35 nothingmuch try to go over the docs
19:35 nothingmuch err
19:35 nothingmuch PPI, not PIL
19:36 nothingmuch PIL has nothing to do with perl5 code generation
19:36 nothingmuch it just happens to be the thing being generated
19:36 nothingmuch i think another plausible approach is to serialize PIL into perl5 object representing PIL
19:36 nothingmuch and just walk that
19:36 nothingmuch so there's no compilation and code emittion
19:36 putter kolibrie: one would probably have to do a test compile, notice if it failed, and complain...
19:37 kolibrie sort of like what I did?
19:37 putter lol
19:37 gaal one thing to put in the next release of TTH is the darcs repo url ;-)
19:38 kolibrie putter++ # for being so patient and helping me embed perl5
19:38 putter nothingmuch: my understanding is the plan is to create a PIL->p5 backend, supported by a native p5 runtime.  no?
19:38 putter tnx.  de nada.
19:39 nothingmuch putter: yes
19:39 nothingmuch by any means possible
19:43 putter it would be nice if there was an easily parsable pil dump format...
19:44 gaal nothingmuch ping
19:44 gaal many fails in latest TTH on win32
19:44 gaal fs path errors i think, from glancing.
19:48 nothingmuch pong
19:48 nothingmuch use lib "t/lib" ?
19:48 gaal perl Build test
19:48 gaal shouldn't that do that?
19:48 nothingmuch no, it's in the tests
19:49 gaal 55/112 subtests failed, 50.89% okay.
19:49 nothingmuch should i be saying use lib File::Spec->catdir("t", "lib")?
19:49 gaal ahhh
19:49 gaal prolly yes
19:49 nothingmuch oh man
19:49 nothingmuch wait, doesn't windows allow / in paths?
19:49 gaal my brain is tired
19:50 gaal oughta
19:50 gaal but win32 sucks!
19:50 gaal sucks! i tell you
19:50 nothingmuch eep =(
19:50 nothingmuch i'll try it out at work tomorrow
19:51 gaal yeah, i should probably leave the computer myself at this point :)
19:51 Garron has left
19:51 gaal in fact, that's exactly what i'll do
19:51 gaal good night :)
19:53 nothingmuch ciao
19:54 svnbot6 has joined #perl6
19:54 svnbot6 r5578, Aankhen++ | * added naive, basic, simple, whatever-you-call-it-just-don't-laugh read-eval-print under examples/eval.p6.
19:54 svnbot6 r5579, Aankhen++ | examples/eval.p6:
19:54 svnbot6 r5579, Aankhen++ | * added POD.
19:54 svnbot6 r5579, Aankhen++ | * added todo notes.
19:54 svnbot6 r5579, Aankhen++ | * minor refactoring (gasp).
19:54 svnbot6 r5580, Aankhen++ | * examples/eval.p6: more TODO.
19:55 * putter tries to figure out where the -Cpir output comes from...
19:55 Limbic_Region nothinmuch - tests.yml the file I want?
19:55 nothingmuch yep
19:55 Limbic_Region ok - gonna have to wait til tomorrow at this point
19:56 Chewie[] Aankhen``: Ping.
19:56 Limbic_Region (locked down work machine)--
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20:00 putter ah, src/Main.hs   http://nothingmuch.woobling.o​rg/pugs_test_status/haddock/  ++
20:00 revdiablo is 'pugs -BParrot ...' still the way to run pugs through parrot backend, or has this changed?
20:01 putter -BParrot and -BPir are equivalent at this point.   oh, and yes.
20:02 kolibrie using my new embedded perl5, I notice that using perl5 modules works in a script, but not in the pugs shell
20:02 SamB has joined #perl6
20:03 putter I was earlier trying to talk someone into beginning a p6-based shell... I think Aankhen`` is beginning an examples/eval.p6...
20:04 Aankhen`` Chewie[] >> Pong.
20:04 Aankhen`` putter >> I already began it. :-)
20:04 Chewie[] Aankhen``: Where have you been?
20:04 putter :) !
20:04 Aankhen`` Chewie[] >> When?
20:04 Aankhen`` putter >> Feel free to hack on it.
20:04 Chewie[] Past few weeks?
20:04 Aankhen`` "XXX" marks the spot. ;-)
20:04 Aankhen`` Chewie[] >> Uhh... here?
20:05 Aankhen`` I was out of town from the 17th of June to the 3rd of July; been here ever since. :-)
20:05 Chewie[] Heh.
20:05 Aankhen`` (and as `svn log` will show, been hacking away on libwww-perl :-)
20:05 Chewie[] Aankhen``: I've got a very good base64_encode working in Parrot, but I haven't been working on the decode for a while.
20:06 Chewie[] It's also very parrotish. It'll have to be munged into the new calling conventions.
20:06 Aankhen`` That's neat.
20:06 Aankhen`` Chewie[]++
20:06 Aankhen`` Or perhaps that should be: Chewie[] »++
20:06 Chewie[] Considering I've had well over a few months to do it.. :-D
20:06 * Chewie[] has been working on various other things.
20:06 Aankhen`` Think you could up-port it to Perl 6? :-)
20:07 Chewie[] Heh.. I don't even have Pugs building locally yet.
20:07 Chewie[] If I did, I'd be doing a lot more with Perl 6.
20:07 Aankhen`` The time is now!
20:08 putter :)
20:08 Aankhen`` perlbot karma »
20:08 perlbot Karma for »: 1
20:08 Aankhen`` Bah.
20:09 Chewie[] Hmm. Debian still hasn't upgraded from ghc6.2.
20:09 Aankhen`` Anyway.
20:09 integral Chewie[]: 6.4's in unstable at least
20:09 Chewie[] integral: Heh. I'm not going to switch to unstable just yet.
20:10 Aankhen`` G'night.
20:10 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("If God had really intended for men to fly, He'd make it easier to get to the airport. [Time wasted online: 11hrs 10mins 34sec)
20:10 putter G'night
20:14 putter ok, there's a scary concept... with just a little bit of preprocessing, it looks like PIL, a haskell code dump, would parse as p6...
20:22 Limbic_Region multi foo { ... } is now shorthand for multi sub foo { ... } so I have to still spell out multi method foo { ... } ? it takes more keystrokes to type method than it does sub - some might argue that sub is used more but p6 may change that
20:22 svnbot6 r5581, fglock++ | Span.pm - added internal module "Span::Code"
20:26 PerlJam That's one short hand I don't think we should have "multi foo"  it should always be "multi sub foo"
20:28 Limbic_Region I was reading from the 6.2.8 release notes
20:28 Limbic_Region I agree - sub/method should always be explicit
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20:37 putter Is there a cannonical test for perl code to determine if it's running under p5 or p6?
20:37 svnbot6 r5582, fglock++ | set svn properties
20:38 PerlJam putter: in the absense of "use v6;", "module" or "class" it's perl5  :)
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20:39 Darren_Duncan I downloaded and tested the pristine 6.2.8, and its a-ok
20:39 Darren_Duncan now back to the Svn head
20:41 putter Trying to do a runtime test.  even eval('class Foo{}; 'p6''') or 'p5' wont work, because there are p5 modules which emulate p6...
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20:41 putter I suppose one could duck type languages... eval it, and if it works, great... but it would be nice to have a predicate...
20:42 Darren_Duncan shouldn't you be using 'perl5' now?
20:42 putter ?
20:42 putter huh?
20:43 Darren_Duncan some parts of Perl 6 / Pugs used to have 'p5' to specify using Perl 5, but now that was removed in favor of 'perl5'
20:43 Darren_Duncan or at least the syntax for using Perl 5 modules in Perl 6 is that way
20:44 putter Ah, right.  No, I'm after something different...
20:44 putter Sometimes one wants to write code which runs under either p5 or p6.
20:44 Darren_Duncan good luck with that
20:45 putter One could imagine a  use PBoth;  module which in p6, made things more p5 like, and in p5, sucked some of the "make p5 like p6" modules.
20:45 putter But even without that, a lot can be done in the overlap.
20:46 putter After all, as long as one limits oneself to function calls and a few data types, one can write code which works in both perl and ruby.
20:47 putter Now normally, you can write a predicate sub is_this_p6() which just eval's some p6 code, and if it works, you know where you are.
20:48 putter But it looks like p5 is getting a lot of "make me look like p6" modules, which confuses things.
20:48 putter So I was wondering if there is a "flag" yet, to determine where one really is.
20:49 PerlJam putter:  use v5; ... use v6; ... use v5; ... (ad nauseum)
20:49 PerlJam putter: there isn't (and won't) be something automated I don't think
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21:25 putter &
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22:17 svnbot6 r5583, fglock++ | Span::Code works !!!
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23:24 Alias_ What's the CVS commit count up to now
23:28 wolverian CVS? :)
23:29 mr_ank has joined #perl6
23:29 brentdax Is that a trick question?
23:29 Alias_ err, sorry.
23:29 Alias_ mistype
23:29 Alias_ The VCS count
23:29 Alias_ :)
23:30 * Alias_ is looking at a svn2cvs run
23:30 wolverian 5583, says svk pull
23:31 Alias_ wonder how hard that will effect the server
23:32 Alias_ unfortunately, it looks like it doesn't handle multiple users
23:33 Alias_ So I lose most of the best information
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