Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-07-15

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Time Nick Message
00:00 chromatic PUSHMARK
00:00 * chromatic wishes for reliable and complete global destruction.
00:01 chromatic PUTBACK
00:01 clkao no!
00:01 clkao no perlguts here pllease
00:01 Odin-LAP chromatic: The U.S. or Russia should be able to give you one...
00:01 chromatic How else should I put something on Autrijus' stack?
00:01 * Odin-LAP wonders how powerful an explosion it would take to destabilise the orbit...
00:02 clkao svk push
00:02 chromatic According to Futurama, the output from every robot in the world in the year 3002.
00:02 chromatic Svk knows a bit about p5guts too.
00:02 clkao no that's svn::core. svk is pure perl
00:04 chromatic Synecdoche.
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00:16 nothingmuch good night gay camels
00:17 mugwump :D
00:17 nothingmuch (to disambiguate: http://lambda.org/)
00:18 obra  :)
00:18 nothingmuch http://lambda.org/Flag-Rainbow_banner_1.gif
00:18 nothingmuch mply, the Greek letter "L" stands for "liberation."
00:18 nothingmuch check
00:18 nothingmuch s/^/Si/
00:19 nothingmuch The Greek Spartans believed that the lambda represented unity.  - unity of haskell and perl - check
00:19 nothingmuch \The Romans took it as meaning "the light of knowledge shining into the darkness of ignorance."
00:19 nothingmuch wow, that's good stuff
00:19 nothingmuch haskell makes me feel that way
00:19 nothingmuch check
00:19 nothingmuch (i'm going through http://lambda.org/symbols.htm, btw)
00:20 nothingmuch The charged energy of the gay movement. This stems from the lambda's use in chemistry and physics to denote energy in equations.
00:20 nothingmuch well, s/gay/pugs/; check
00:20 nothingmuch The synergy which results when gays and lesbians work together towards a common goal (a gestalt theory which also stems from the physics-energy theory) .. s/gays,lesbians/perl people, haskell people/; check
00:21 * mugwump is reminded at this point of the "Never be rude to an Arab" skit
00:21 nothingmuch okay, i'll stop now, because these are getting long
00:22 nothingmuch interesting... http://lambda.org/Gensymb-Mbi_Fbi.gif
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01:29 svnbot6 r5610, putter++ | Refactoring of perl5/PIL-Run/crude_repl.  Pulled out PIL::ReadToStr1, and PIL::Run::{MainX,EvalX}.
01:30 autrijus greetings.
01:32 * autrijus looks at even more in-method for/given threads on p6l.
01:32 autrijus we will be for/given. ;)
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01:33 mugwump morning autrijus, back to regular time I see
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01:37 mugwump hi stevan
01:38 * mugwump realises he is probably talking to an auto-reconnect
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01:50 putter cheerio.
01:51 mugwump you just arrive and are already saying goodbye?
01:54 putter just arrive. ;)
01:54 svnbot6 r5611, putter++ | p5 runtime now uses placeholder objects PIL::Run::Type::{Object,Str,Rat,Int}.
01:54 svnbot6 r5612, putter++ | ... and here are PIL::Run::Type::{Object,Str,Rat,Int}.
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02:14 putter Oooo, here is an idea.  (Thinking about some of the questions earlier in the day.)  People who ask questions, have to add them to a QuestionsAsked list, perhaps on the wiki.  Answers can be cut and pasted there.  That way we accumulate answered questions.
02:14 QtPlatypus putter: Great idea.
02:19 QtPlatypus Going with the current religious theam we should call it a Catechism (An elementry book containing a summary, in the form of questions and answers)
02:24 putter :)
02:25 autrijus note that all pugs apocryphons are declared to be in catechism format  :)
02:25 autrijus catechism++
02:26 * autrijus syncs up and reads putter's work
02:27 autrijus euro oscon schedule up... I now understand why none of perl6 talks made it
02:28 autrijus and why all my tutorials are downcasted into sessions
02:28 obra oh?
02:29 autrijus because there's only 8 tutorials that suggests a strong lab-like format
02:29 obra ah.
02:29 autrijus and the talks are 100% biased toward practical utility
02:29 autrijus which is actually a good thing
02:30 obra They probably need to be to make the conference seem reasonable for attendees
02:30 autrijus right
02:30 autrijus at least my whimsical, why-the-lucky-stiff-influenced "Learning Haskell" talk made it.
02:30 autrijus # http://conferences.oreillynet.co​m/cs/eurooscon/view/e_sess/7231
02:35 obra Nice
02:35 obra Sad I won't get to see it
02:35 autrijus *nod*
02:37 putter autrijus: now r5613.
02:37 autrijus roger.
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02:42 svnbot6 r5613, putter++ | Added PIL/Run/Type/Sub.pm, and changed name mangling.
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02:44 autrijus putter: color me impressed :)
02:44 * autrijus lunch... will read up some more &
02:45 putter thanks. :)
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03:43 wolverian is there a syntax to check the parameter of a role at runtime? that is, role Foo[$bar] { } class Baz does Foo[Quux] { } my $o = Baz.new; # how to check what $bar is?
03:43 svnbot6 r5614, putter++ | Added perl5/PIL-Run/TODO, which suggests ways you can help develop the p5 runtime.
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03:45 putter ?
03:45 wolverian is that directed at me?
03:45 wolverian :)
03:46 putter Yes.  I don't recall one from the docs.  But it may have been mentioned at the hackathon.  Don't know.
03:46 wolverian okay, thanks.
03:46 wolverian just wondering, it's not critical. I can always handwave for the time being :)
03:47 wolverian (just that the functionality itself is important. the syntax isn't as much.)
03:47 putter :)  true.
03:49 putter ok, end of day for me.  I likely won't be around tomorrow(US).
03:50 wolverian bye!
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03:51 putter perl5/PIL-Run/TODO has several suggestions of things people could do to help with the p5 runtime.  Several require only basic perl5 skill.  Help! :)  Thank you. :)
03:52 stevan putter++ # braving the p5 runtime :)
03:52 putter wolverian: bye.  I think is going to be one of those stop for a snack and wander around, slow exits...
03:53 putter :)
03:53 wolverian putter, okay. :) have fun.
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03:55 putter stevan: I looked at (some of?) the SELF stuff.  neat!  I'm afraid I still dont have enough of a clue about the mm to say anything useful.  sorry.  rsn I hope...
03:55 stevan putter: the SELF stuff is actually in flux now
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03:55 stevan I am trying to fix the submethod handling
03:56 stevan which means I need to implement "next METHOD"
03:56 stevan which is not that easy given the way the dispatcher currently is structured
03:56 putter ah.
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03:57 stevan putter: mm stuff is not as hard as it looks :)
03:57 stevan the files are just getting a little cluttered
03:57 stevan time for a refactoring :)
03:58 stevan basically what I am saying, dont mistake my messiness for complexity :)
03:58 putter The runtime is currently using strawman PIL/Run/Type/Mumble.pm classes.  Object,Sub,Str,Int,Rat.  They could be the start of connecting the runtime stuff to the mm?
03:59 putter ok. :)  wont.  there is always Fiter::Simple. :)
04:00 * putter is a great believer in declaritive programming using runtime code generation.
04:00 svnbot6 r5615, mugwump++ | Add basic prompting via Scriptalicious ;)
04:00 mugwump s/prompting/readline prompting/
04:01 mugwump bah, there are debug output messages in the release scriptalicious.  doh!
04:02 putter I just had to google that.  "Scriptalicious".  Interesting module...
04:04 putter Who knows, maybe p6 will put an end to the so long search for good command line argument handling.
04:04 putter Yeah, right.  And create world peace too. ;)
04:04 mugwump Well, Scriptalicious doesn't do much beyond Getopt::Long
04:04 mugwump all it does is add -h, -v, etc standard options
04:04 mugwump (and make them work ;))
04:04 putter :)
04:05 stevan putter: what time zone are you in?
04:05 svnbot6 r5616, mugwump++ | Add version requirement for Scriptalicious, un-TODO
04:05 stevan you always seem to be up around now
04:05 putter EST  (EDT?)
04:05 putter EDT
04:05 stevan ah
04:05 stevan me too
04:05 stevan you are up late :)
04:06 putter yeah.  good reminder.  long day tomorrow.
04:06 putter goodnight all :) &
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04:31 wolverian hey, is there a difference between 'role Foo does Bar does Baz;' and 'subtype Foo of Bar where { .does(Baz) }'?
04:32 mugwump sure.  the latter won't be directly instantiable, I think
04:33 mugwump You'd need to have another class that .does(Bar) and .does(Baz) for it to match .does(Foo)
04:33 wolverian er, are roles instantiable?
04:34 wolverian oh, you mean a class can't then 'does Foo', in the latter case?
04:34 mugwump well, they create an anonymous class.  What I mean by that statement is that there's nothing to tell the interpreter how to correctly Foo.new
04:34 wolverian hrm. right. so they can't be composed, only used in type checking?
04:35 mugwump You can't invert the where clause into a constructor
04:35 mugwump it might be arbitrarily complex
04:35 wolverian hmm, S12 says you can declare with subtypes
04:36 wolverian so maybe I'm just confused about what you're trying to say
04:37 mugwump well, how do you go from 'where { .does(Baz) }' to 'Foo does Baz' ?
04:38 wolverian they're both constraints on what can be contained in the container, right?
04:38 mugwump no, the where { } is a constraint, the does { } imports the role
04:39 wolverian hmm, right
04:39 mugwump er, s/does { }/does/ :)
04:40 wolverian if you want to see the actual example
04:40 wolverian I'm trying to decide between
04:40 wolverian role Slave does Belong is Species { } and subtype Slave of Species where { .does(Belong) }
04:41 wolverian (where the role Belong implements an interface for things that have an owner)
04:42 wolverian does that make any sense to you at all? :)
04:42 wolverian (and yes, this is a game.)
04:43 mugwump I think the latter would make .does(Slave) work on Species objects if they .does(Belong)
04:43 svnbot6 r5617, masak++ | Fixed quotes in t/statements/given.t, marked as TODO.
04:44 mugwump Roles can't "is", either
04:44 mugwump perhaps "Roles aren't, they do"
04:44 wolverian oh. hmm. well, that's a kind of a kludge because 'does Species' doesn't work from an English perspective
04:44 wolverian so I used a class instead. which is just a desire for it to be linguistically clean, I guess
04:44 wolverian I should think about semantics more :)
04:45 wolverian s,think,worry,
04:45 stevan Roles can "is" IIRC
04:45 mugwump oh, actually I tell a lie - roles can "is", but it ends up flattening into the class they are included
04:45 stevan yup
04:46 stevan it is in A12 somewhere
04:46 mugwump being "flattened" into a superclass in this case
04:46 wolverian just like when they 'does' another role?
04:46 stevan to be honest, I think that is just down right silly
04:46 wolverian oh, the superclass gets the role?
04:46 wolverian that's weird.
04:46 mugwump no, it gets added into the class' superclasses as if IT did the "is Whatever"
04:47 wolverian can you show a short code example?
04:47 wolverian I'm being dense. haven't slept all night. :)
04:47 wolverian (looking in A12)
04:48 mugwump see S12/A role is allowed to declare an additional inheritance
04:49 wolverian you mean Encapsulated inheritance?
04:49 wolverian oh, sorry, I'm in A12
04:50 wolverian hmm. role Foo is Bar { } class Baz does Foo { } Baz.isa(Bar); Foo.isa(Bar); Bar.isa(Foo); # true, false, false?
04:51 wolverian er, s,isa,does,
04:53 wolverian that's how I read it, anyway, and it makes sense to me.
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05:22 mugwump Foo.isa(Bar) would probably be an error imho, Foo is a Role not a class
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05:23 * mugwump weekends &
05:24 wolverian mugwump, I meant Foo.does(Bar). is that an error as well?
05:24 wolverian oh, you went. thanks for the help. :)
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06:28 gaal good morning.
06:29 wolverian morning.
06:31 gaal nothingmuch: you pang?
06:39 gaal autrijus, there?
06:41 gaal i want to chat a little about eval.p6: you mentioned debugger hooks in your journal, i want to see how to arrange for that kind of thing.
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09:24 masak ?eval "you alive, evalbot?"
09:24 masak guess not
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12:47 * QtPlatypus wonders how one would test for lazyness?
12:48 Limbic_Region QtPlatypus - perhaps through a tied implementation
12:48 Limbic_Region one that would allow for introspection without motivating
12:49 * QtPlatypus was thinking about something simple like having a side effect in the generator.
12:49 QtPlatypus test as in "Check that lazyness is working"
12:50 Limbic_Region that might work too
12:50 Limbic_Region heizenburg's principle is hard to get around though
12:51 QtPlatypus The whole "Obsever causes the situation to change" thing?
12:52 Limbic_Region well - that's the simplified version
12:52 Limbic_Region but yeah
12:52 Odin- Heisenberg's uncertainty principle?
12:53 Odin- It's impossible to know (precisely) both the position and velocity of any particular particle at the same time... :p
12:54 Limbic_Region actually - that's only one interpretation
12:54 Limbic_Region the more you know about one is proportional to the less you know about the other
12:55 QtPlatypus I thinnk its both the position and the momentum of any perticular particle.
12:56 Odin- QtPlatypus: The momentum is dependent upon mass and velocity; you *can* know the rest mass...
12:56 * QtPlatypus nods to Odin-
12:57 Limbic_Region except for those pesky particles that only seem to have mass when they are moving ;-)
12:58 Odin- Limbic_Region: Well, their rest mass is 'zero', then, isn't it? ;p
12:58 Limbic_Region oh, has anyone seen nothingmuch?
12:59 Limbic_Region seen nothingmuch
12:59 jabbot Limbic_Region: nothingmuch was seen 12 hours 36 minutes 30 seconds ago
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13:15 svnbot6 r5618, iblech++ | svnbot.p6 -- Made it possible to display branch information (i.e. leo-ctx5) and
13:15 svnbot6 r5618, iblech++ | misc. minor fixes.
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14:22 masak QtPlatypus: Limbic_Region is right, the general version of the Uncertainty Principle is about limitation of accuracy of simultaneous measurement of observables in general
14:22 masak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
14:23 QtPlatypus masak: Thanks
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14:26 dudley Is kwid the standard format for pugs documentation?
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14:27 integral since pod and kwid are theoretically interchangeable, does there need to be one?
14:27 dudley I guess that's what I was asking
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14:41 svnbot6 r5619, iblech++ | svnbot.p6 -- Option to output a separate header line for each commit, idea from coke++.
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14:57 svnbot6 r5620, iblech++ | * examples/network/svnbot.p6 -- Updated svnbot's usage info.
14:57 svnbot6 r5620, iblech++ | * examples/network/README    -- Noted the channels svnbot is used in.
14:57 svnbot6 r5621, fglock++ | finished Span::Code.intersection() method
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14:58 Limbic_Region fglock - did you ever get your lazy infinite list answer?
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16:11 eric256 anyone know the pugs way of setting the char used when stringifying lists?
16:14 eric256 i can't even seem to find the right document
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16:15 PerlJam eric256: use join
16:16 eric256 i would. but i'm using the flattening properties...unless i can flatten into a list and join that....like ([1..5],[1,2,3,[a,b,c]]) = (1..5,1,2,3,a,b,c)
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16:17 f0rth http://www.wretch.cc/album/chining
16:17 f0rth oops.....sorry
16:18 eric256 thanks PerlJam, that got me going in the right directions
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16:29 eric256 hmmm.  my $test = {1 => 2}; $test.perl.say; produces {('1' => 2)} .... and if you do say ref($test) you get Array
16:30 eric256 hmmm or not... nm..something else is confusing it i guess.
16:30 stevan Limbic_Region: ping
16:32 eric256 pugs> my $test = {1 => {'2' => 3, '4' => 5}}; $test.perl.say; $test<1>.ref.say;
16:32 eric256 {('1' => ('2' => 3)), ('4 5' => undef)}
16:32 eric256 Pair
16:32 eric256 bool::true
16:32 pasteling "stevan" at 67.186.136.119 pasted "iterator for the MetaModel dispatcher (sanity test please)" (70 lines, 1.8K) at http://sial.org/pbot/11777
16:32 eric256 am i being dumb somewhere i there? i expect $test<1>.ref to be Hash
16:32 stevan if I could get a sanity test on the metamodel dispatcher iterator thing above
16:32 fglock ping Limbic_Region
16:33 stevan it would be much appreaciated
16:33 stevan it is a depth first iterator basically
16:34 stevan oh, crap I see a problem already, but it is more with my example and less with the code
16:36 pasteling "stevan" at 67.186.136.119 pasted "fixed iterator" (72 lines, 1.9K) at http://sial.org/pbot/11778
16:36 stevan ok, look at that one instead please
16:38 eric256 stevan - it runs and passes the tests here. not sure how much help that is for you ;)
16:40 stevan eric256: thanks, I am looking for a sanity check on the code
16:40 stevan basically it felt like it was going to be more complex
16:40 stevan then I wrote it
16:40 stevan and I was done before I knew it
16:41 stevan this will eventually replace the current dispatch mechanism in the metamodel
16:41 stevan making it into an iterator makes it resumeable
16:41 eric256 lol. yea. isn't depth first suppose to be easy like that?
16:41 stevan so things like "next METHOD" can work
16:41 eric256 cool
16:41 stevan eric256: yeah I guess it is :)
16:41 eric256 any ideas on my hash miss parse...well i think it is a miss parse..
16:42 stevan looking now
16:42 stevan weird
16:43 stevan well $test<1>.ref makes sense to be a pair
16:43 stevan what does $test<1><2>.ref say?
16:43 * stevan does not have a copy of pugs handy
16:43 eric256 yea but look at the second run...where it lumps '4 5' as a pair with udnef
16:44 stevan yes, that part looks like a mis-parse for sure
16:44 stevan I am just wondering what it thinks the $test<1> pair is
16:44 stevan doe it think it is { 2 => 3}
16:45 stevan or something else
16:45 eric256 it thinks its ('2' => 3) if i print it useing .perl
16:45 stevan what about $test.ref?
16:46 eric256 Hash
16:46 stevan $test<1><4>.ref?
16:46 stevan we need evalbot back :)
16:47 eric256 Scalar for ref....\undef for .perl
16:47 stevan ok
16:47 eric256 did eval bot die? or is it just not running right now?
16:47 stevan yeah I think it is a misparse
16:48 stevan I have no idea
16:55 fglock has quit IRC ("I am going away")
16:56 Ontolog has joined #Perl6
17:11 Aankhen`` Juerd++ # typing tutor
17:21 stevan I have no idea
17:25 eric256 still ;)
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17:46 * ToniEisner is away: Away at the moment
17:47 ToniEisner is now known as ToniEisnerIsAway
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17:49 stevan wow it is quiet in here today
17:51 kolibrie everyone got burned out after all the discussion yesterday
17:51 * eric256 is sad
17:52 stevan kolibrie: which one? not the ./ one?
17:52 svnbot6 r5622, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel -
17:52 svnbot6 r5622, Stevan++ |    * fixed SELF to handle nested calls of different invocants
17:52 svnbot6 r5622, Stevan++ |         - added more tests for this
17:52 svnbot6 r5622, Stevan++ |    * removed the Submethods monomophic assertions
17:52 svnbot6 r5622, Stevan++ |    * added Submethod tests based on discussion with $Larry
17:52 svnbot6 r5622, Stevan++ |         - these tests current fail until we add CLASS and next_METHOD
17:52 svnbot6 r5622, Stevan++ |    * added ->dispatcher method to MetaClass
17:52 svnbot6 r5622, Stevan++ |         - added a basic test for this
17:52 svnbot6 r5622, Stevan++ |         - NOTE: it is not used by anything yet, that is
17:52 svnbot6 r5622, Stevan++ |           my next step :)
17:52 svnbot6 r5623, Stevan++ | removed notes to self in TODO :)
17:52 stevan eric256: cheer up, hashes are not that important :)
17:53 kolibrie stevan: that was pretty big, but the channel was just busy all day
17:53 stevan dammit, the day I decide to do $work is the good day
17:54 kolibrie so, anyone have any experience with Parse::RecDescent, and want to help me begin?
17:57 kolibrie my problem is that I only care about the middle of my document, and can't figure out how to skip the first chunk of garbage
17:57 eric256 just remove it with a regex. ;)
17:58 kolibrie so just do that first, before starting the parse?
17:58 eric256 that would be my guess yes..
17:58 kolibrie I wanted my grammar to be able to say, skip up to this starting point
17:58 eric256 never touche Parse::* anything, but i would say the easiest solution is best
17:59 * ToniEisnerIsAway is back.
17:59 ToniEisnerIsAway is now known as ToniEisner
17:59 kolibrie the easiest was to write my own parser, but it is starting to stretch itself too far
17:59 kolibrie so now I have to learn "the real thing"
18:00 eric256 right but. if you just want to skip junk, then skip it the easiest way you know,
18:00 stevan kolibrie: I never used P::RD myself, but I would assume that your "start" token would be the place to start parsing
18:00 stevan that is if P::RD has a notion of a "start" token
18:00 PerlJam it does
18:01 * stevan only does simple event based (XML::SAX) parsing
18:01 kolibrie so, PerlJam, do you have a hint for me?
18:02 integral rule names map to method names on the parser object, so if your start rule is "start" you call the "start" method :-)
18:02 kolibrie I get that
18:02 kolibrie here's my simple example:
18:02 PerlJam kolibrie: no, basically you do as others have said (it's just the mechanism you use that changes)
18:03 kolibrie I want to match the string 'hello world'
18:03 kolibrie but the string I actually have is 'my hello world'
18:03 integral rule1: 'hello world'
18:03 kolibrie when I say $parser->rule1($string)
18:03 kolibrie I get no match
18:03 integral ah, rules are anchored
18:04 PerlJam kolibrie: because you need to have the "rule" that skips the stuff you don't want
18:04 kolibrie so I added a garbage: /.*/
18:04 PerlJam you realize that * is very greedy?
18:04 integral but that then eats the whole string,   since no backtracking into regexps occurs
18:04 integral maybe /\S+/ to eat one word would be appropiate?
18:05 kolibrie maybe
18:07 kolibrie ok, so that worked for 'my hello world'
18:07 kolibrie but not for 'my very special hello world'
18:07 integral myrule1: (/\S+/)* 'hello' 'world'
18:10 kolibrie Untranslatable item encountered: "*"
18:10 integral ugh,  and I'm not sure that would work anyway because I can't remember P::RD's backtracking behaviour
18:10 PerlJam I'd probably make a rule just for the garbage words but that's just me
18:11 kolibrie I'm trying
18:11 * integral thinks a single regexp with full backtracking would work better
18:11 PerlJam well it'll work *faster* and if that's what you mean by "better" then sure.
18:11 integral well it'd "work" too...
18:12 kolibrie I'm just trying to get it to work at all:
18:12 kolibrie page: garbage(s?) greeting world
18:13 kolibrie greeting: ('hello' | 'greetings')
18:13 kolibrie world:   /\w+/
18:13 kolibrie garbage: /\S*/
18:13 kolibrie no match on 'my very special hello world'
18:13 PerlJam kolibrie: er ... why are you messing with P::RD again?  I'm not even working the problem even and I already want to use p6 notation
18:14 kolibrie well, I'd rather use that, but couldn't get that to work either
18:15 kolibrie PGE was dying on unknown characters, I think
18:15 mja has quit IRC ("BitchX: it isn't only my script, it's also my client")
18:15 kolibrie it was giving all kinds of weird errors
18:15 PerlJam then ping pmichaud hard so that he can fix it.
18:16 kolibrie I suppose so
18:16 Alias_ has joined #perl6
18:16 kolibrie but still, now I'm on a mission to get this to work
18:16 Alias_ seen iblechbot
18:16 jabbot Alias_: I havn't seen iblechbot, Alias_
18:16 Alias_ eep
18:18 Limbic_Region why eep
18:19 Limbic_Region I think jabbot only pays attention if the person says something
18:19 Limbic_Region iblechbot is a logger not a talker
18:19 Limbic_Region ;-)
18:19 Limbic_Region seen iblech
18:19 jabbot Limbic_Region: iblech was seen 7 days 23 hours 49 minutes 58 seconds ago
18:20 Limbic_Region seen nothingmuch
18:20 jabbot Limbic_Region: nothingmuch was seen 17 hours 58 minutes 9 seconds ago
18:21 PerlJam kolibrie: well, turn on tracing and see if that helps  (Search for RD_TRACE in the docs)
18:22 kolibrie PerlJam: ah, yes, that might help
18:23 Alias_ ohh...
18:24 Alias_ How does one get a commit bot set up
18:24 * Alias_ wants one for #jsan
18:25 kolibrie the examples/svnbot.p6 works, I think
18:26 Alias_ ok
18:26 kolibrie examples/network/svnbot.p6
18:48 kolibrie so, using my 'my hello world' parsing example, I've gotten pugs to match using this grammar:
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18:48 kolibrie rule page { <garbage>+ \s <greeting> \s <world> };
18:48 kolibrie rule greeting { hello | greetings }
18:48 kolibrie rule world { nathan }
18:48 kolibrie rule garbage { \S+\s? }
18:49 kolibrie however, as soon as I change the string to 'my very special hello world'
18:49 kolibrie I get a segmentation fault
18:49 kolibrie that goes to patrick, I guess?
18:49 Alias_ has left "Leaving"
18:50 kolibrie s/nathan/\w+/
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19:08 svnbot6 r5624, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel -
19:08 svnbot6 r5624, Stevan++ |     * added CLASS (aka $?CLASS)
19:08 svnbot6 r5624, Stevan++ | - added tests for this
19:08 svnbot6 r5624, Stevan++ | - sprinkled usage of this in other tests too
19:08 svnbot6 r5624, Stevan++ |     * disabled Submethod failures for now, they are still
19:08 svnbot6 r5624, Stevan++ |       broken though
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19:30 pasteling "Aankhen``" at 203.101.6.32 pasted "Pugsbug?" (8 lines, 382B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11780
19:30 svnbot6 r5625, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel -
19:30 svnbot6 r5625, Stevan++ |     * stubbed $?ROLE test
19:30 svnbot6 r5625, Stevan++ |     * We are not using the Perl6::MetaClass::Dispatcher to handle
19:30 svnbot6 r5625, Stevan++ |       all the method dispatching :)
19:30 stevan whoops :)
19:30 stevan s/not using/now using/
19:30 Aankhen`` LMAO.
19:31 stevan its friday after all :)
19:31 Aankhen`` Excuses, excuses. :-P
19:31 Aankhen`` Could you take a look at the paste and confirm?
19:31 stevan Aankhen``: sure one sec
19:33 stevan Aankhen``: I have no idea what it is thinking there
19:33 stevan did you try this in non-interactive mode?
19:33 stevan oh wait
19:33 stevan line 3, it is missing the comma
19:33 Aankhen`` Indeed.
19:33 stevan pugs> sub foo ($bar, $baz) { ($bar, $baz) }; foo(:bar<quux> :baz<boo>)
19:34 stevan no comma before :baz
19:34 Aankhen`` Yes.
19:34 stevan is that intentional?
19:34 Aankhen`` Indeed.
19:34 stevan ok
19:34 stevan hmm
19:34 stevan what is it supposed to do then?
19:34 Aankhen`` Treat it as if there was a comma there...
19:35 stevan Aankhen``: why?
19:36 Aankhen`` One sec, I'm looking for the AES I read it in.
19:36 stevan (drunken admins)++
19:36 Aankhen`` Someone take that function away from them. -_-
19:36 Aankhen`` Pitch Black is a depressing movie.
19:36 Aankhen`` I liked Chronicles of Riddick much better.
19:38 Aankhen`` Argh... which AES was it???
19:44 cwest I need your bot. :-)
19:44 cwest Who owns svnbot6?
19:45 Aankhen`` Right, I can't find it.  Put simply, it said the new pair notation would be useful when passing a bunch of boolean options together, e.g. open($file, :lock :read :somethingelse);
19:46 Darren_Duncan has joined #perl6
19:49 dudley cwest: it's iblech's baby, I think
19:51 stevan cwest: I will sell it to you for $1 million
19:51 stevan or best offer :)
19:51 fglock has quit IRC ("I am going away")
19:51 Khisanth 2 rupees!
19:52 stevan damn! undercut again,.. that it, I am moving to Bangalore :)
19:53 cwest Do you /really/ want my best offer? ;-)
19:53 Khisanth quarter cent? :P
19:53 cwest That's pushing it.
19:54 sapper has quit IRC ("bye")
19:54 stevan cwest: okay, I will pay you!
19:54 Khisanth one eight?
19:55 cwest My best offer is that you give me crash space at oscon that isn't in a hostel. ;-)
19:55 stevan sure, but the commute is a bitch since I am in Connecticut
19:55 Khisanth hehe
19:55 cwest Connecticut, nice typo.
19:55 cwest Geek.
19:55 cwest Anyway, that's cool. :-)
19:56 * cwest will always say connecticut now.
19:56 * stevan didnt even realize he did it, its the caffine talking I swear
19:57 masak cwest: it's spelled that way
19:58 masak just not pronounced like it :)
19:58 * Aankhen`` goes to sleep.
19:58 stevan nite Aankhen``
19:58 Aankhen`` G'night.
19:58 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("My operat~1 system unders~1 long filena~1 , does yours? [Time wasted online: 4hrs 26mins 4secs]")
19:59 cwest wow, awesome quit message
20:00 stevan cwest: I think all you need for svnbot is pugs
20:00 stevan http://svn.openfoundry.org/pu​gs/examples/network/svnbot.p6
20:00 stevan just install pugs and run svnbot from the command line with the proper args and you are good to go
20:01 cwest http://pair.openjsan.org/
20:01 cwest This will become www and @ soon.
20:02 cwest heh "all you need is pugs"
20:02 cwest I love you guys.
20:02 iblech has joined #perl6
20:02 stevan cwest: here is the man you need to talk to ^
20:02 iblech cwest: Hi :)
20:02 * cwest is going to try to install pugs from CPAN
20:03 eric256 is evilbot back yet?
20:03 cwest hello iblech, I'm trying to steal your svnbot.
20:03 eric256 i forget how to activate it....
20:03 eric256 !eval "hello"
20:03 stevan ?eval
20:03 eric256 ?eval "hello"
20:03 evalbot6 'hello'
20:03 stevan eric256: I think it is down
20:03 stevan oh wait
20:03 stevan back
20:03 iblech cwest: HEAD's svnbot has some cosmetic improvements
20:03 stevan horray
20:03 cwest iblech: Let me try to install pugs first. I think this will be the biggest hurdle.
20:04 eric256 ?eval my $test = { 1 => { 2 => 3, 4 => 5} };
20:04 evalbot6 {('1' => ('2' => 3)), ('4 5' => undef)}
20:04 iblech cwest: Sure
20:04 stevan cwest: pugs from CPAN is for wussies, real hackers use svn HEAD
20:04 cwest Everything I try to compile pugs (on my powerbook) it dies. I'm a wussy. :-)
20:05 stevan cwest: dont try to compile GHC
20:05 cwest I'm using a precompiled package.
20:05 stevan there is a good DMG on the site
20:05 cwest ah, maybe that's it.
20:05 cwest This'll be running on fbsd though.
20:06 stevan cwest: someone around here might have an already compiled version of that then
20:06 stevan I think autrijus uses fbsd
20:09 dudley has quit IRC ()
20:09 * cwest is just updating minicpan atm
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20:19 Ontolog is now known as tehpwn
20:23 kolibrie perlbot nopaste
20:23 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
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20:26 pasteling "kolibrie" at 66.239.158.2 pasted "I get random segfaults from pge with this" (37 lines, 827B) at http://sial.org/pbot/11781
20:27 iblech kolibrie: IIRC, PGE is still a bit broken (because of the calling convention changes), both in trunk and in leo-ctx5. But not 100% sure
20:27 kolibrie so it's not just me?
20:28 iblech kolibrie: Definitely. My PGE here (latest leo-ctx5) can't even handle "a" ~~ rx/a/
20:28 kolibrie ouch
20:28 kolibrie well, I won't upgrade my parrot just now
20:38 iblech kolibrie: Ignore what I've just said. Turned out I needed a make realclean, "a" ~~ rx/a/ works now :)
20:38 iblech kolibrie: Will check your nopaste now
20:40 iblech kolibrie: *** Cannot parse PGE: <page> *** Error: end of file no match
20:41 kolibrie iblech: run it a few times
20:41 kolibrie I get different results very time
20:41 kolibrie s/very/every/
20:42 iblech kolibrie: I get always the same error here
20:42 kolibrie hmm
20:42 kolibrie I got that error twice, but mostly I just get a segfault somewhere
20:43 tehpwn is now known as tehpinktaco
20:43 kolibrie though sometimes all the strings match, no problems
20:43 Juerd Can someone kill lilo for me please?
20:43 iblech No segfaults here
20:43 kolibrie iblech: ok, thanks
20:43 kolibrie Juerd: use grub
20:44 kolibrie anyone else want to run my nopaste to check for segfaults?
20:48 masak has left
20:49 svnbot6 r5626, iblech++ | t_disabled/rules/from_perl6_rules/temp_​moved_here_because_pge_doesnt_work_atm/
20:49 svnbot6 r5626, iblech++ | -- Test fixes ("@a" -> "@a[]", "@{foo}" -> "{@{foo}}", eval_is -> is(eval(..., etc.).
20:50 Juerd kolibrie: No, the lilo who spams freenode
20:50 kolibrie Juerd: oh, sorry
20:52 Juerd kolibrie: Have you looked at your status window lately?
20:54 kolibrie Juerd: ahh, nope,hadn't looked there all day
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21:06 svnbot6 r5627, iblech++ | temp_moved_here_because_pge_doesnt_work_atm/ (referred to as "tmh" in the
21:06 svnbot6 r5627, iblech++ | following) -- unTODO, try {...}, and fail "Test hangs".
21:06 svnbot6 r5627, iblech++ | No test of tmh hangs here now, so we could move tmh back to t/. But as I dunno
21:06 svnbot6 r5627, iblech++ | what Parrot revision other people are on, I leaved tmh at t_disabled.
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21:23 svnbot6 r5628, iblech++ | * t/packages/require_and_use.t -- Refactoring and tests for use and require
21:23 svnbot6 r5628, iblech++ |   updating %*INC correctly.
21:23 svnbot6 r5628, iblech++ | * Usual svn props.
21:25 iblech Night :)
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21:44 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
21:44 nothingmuch evening
21:44 * nothingmuch is litterring the p6l posts
21:44 nothingmuch err, logs
21:44 meppl has quit IRC ("quit")
21:45 nothingmuch or should I say archives
21:48 bsmith_ has left
21:51 Juerd They're posts no matter how you look at them
21:53 nothingmuch_ has joined #perl6
21:53 iblechbot has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
21:53 nothingmuch_ bah.... multihoming sucks
21:53 nothingmuch_ i wish interface bonding was automatic
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21:54 nothingmuch_ is now known as nothingmuch
21:57 stevan hola nothingmuch
21:57 stevan did you see what putter did ?
21:58 nothingmuch stevan: yep
21:58 nothingmuch i'm happy someone finally did
21:58 * nothingmuch wasn't having much fun with it
21:58 stevan :)
21:59 stevan it looks tedious, metamodels are much more fun :)
21:59 nothingmuch yup.
21:59 * nothingmuch thinks he'll go read now
21:59 nothingmuch i crashed today
21:59 nothingmuch it was a really funny (in the pathetic sense) event.
22:00 nothingmuch i rode all around dirt, and rocks, and icky stuff, like thorns, and what not., and didn't die
22:00 stevan crashed the bike?
22:00 nothingmuch especially this one descent I really like where there is no road, i'm always sure i'll fall down, but I don't
22:00 nothingmuch anyway, so i get back into Lehavim, where I live, from out in the hills
22:00 nothingmuch and i am riding on the road
22:01 nothingmuch it was getting dark, and I didn't correctly assess how much this sewage drain was sticking out of the pavement.
22:01 nothingmuch and furthermore I was in a too high gear
22:01 nothingmuch now about 1mm of my elbow is on the asphalt, and what's left of it is hurting
22:01 nothingmuch as is mhy wrist
22:02 nothingmuch which is a shame, since it's the left hand
22:02 nothingmuch which i use to mast^H^H^H^Hplay wit^H^H^H the base
22:02 nothingmuch err, bass
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23:03 nothingmuch any mac users?
23:03 eric256 has left
23:03 dmo yeah, why ?
23:04 nothingmuch my safari is fubar
23:04 nothingmuch can you zip up Safari.app and WebKit.framework?
23:04 dmo yawn... yup
23:06 dudley has quit IRC ()
23:07 dmo where do you want me to send it ?
23:07 nothingmuch umm, any webspace
23:07 nothingmuch or [email@hidden.address]
23:07 nothingmuch UGH!!: http://use.perl.org/comments​.pl?sid=27555&amp;cid=41974
23:08 dmo done
23:09 dmo check it before i go to bed, which is ... asap
23:09 nothingmuch thanks!
23:09 nothingmuch how big is it?
23:10 dmo 5 megs, the exim sucker won't let it through. hold on
23:11 dmo oh no... I'll put it on my server, hold on a sec
23:12 nothingmuch thanks!.
23:14 dmo http://www.amakuru.net/safari.tar.bz2
23:15 dmo i've got 256kbps up, should be quick enough; Mail seems to have suceeded though ?
23:15 cventers has left
23:16 brentdax has joined #perl6
23:17 nothingmuch errm, mutt is sorting inbox
23:18 nothingmuch yes, it got here
23:18 dudley has joined #perl6
23:19 nothingmuch dmo++
23:19 dmo wait until it does work
23:19 nothingmuch btw, there's an easy way to make archives - context click on something and say 'make archive'
23:19 nothingmuch it creates a zip
23:19 dmo zip is evil
23:20 nothingmuch ah, but there is more magic - it does resource forks too
23:20 nothingmuch and since zip is less evil than stuffit
23:20 dmo doesn't it fuck up you permissions ?
23:20 nothingmuch what does?
23:20 dmo zip
23:20 nothingmuch zip? exe bits et al?
23:20 dmo owner group and stuff ? it's been ages
23:20 nothingmuch the ._MacOSX thing inside it appearantly keeps metadata
23:21 dmo alright
23:21 nothingmuch the reason I like it nowadays is that it Just Works
23:21 nothingmuch and stuffit is flakey, ugly, and annoying
23:21 dmo I'm still more used to Linux than macos
23:21 dmo old habits :)
23:21 nothingmuch as I see it OSX is enough posix for me too be happy
23:22 dmo yep
23:22 nothingmuch but since there's not too much to configure (fvwm? kde? many options?) i don't waste time
23:22 nothingmuch plus, i know all the keyboard shortcuts
23:22 dmo oh there's still plenty.
23:22 nothingmuch sure, the expose stuff, and the apps are nice
23:22 nothingmuch but you get enough goodness out of every platform, i guess
23:22 nothingmuch windows xp probably has a crap load of magic I would like to use if I knew about it
23:23 nothingmuch but i'll never find out since cygwin is not enough ;-)
23:23 dmo i had to struggle to find all the helpers I need
23:23 nothingmuch dmo: on what platform?
23:23 dmo osc
23:23 dmo osx
23:23 nothingmuch what do you mean by helpers, btw?
23:24 dmo sshAskPass, Witch, iTerm, stuff like that
23:24 dmo a version of gvim that runs nicely
23:25 dmo compile qt so that lincvs would run on it without crashing every other second
23:25 osfameron hmmm, what's wrong with using UNIVERSAL::isa as a function?
23:25 nothingmuch it seems to work
23:25 dmo what ? safari ?
23:25 nothingmuch osfameron: Test::MockObject can't lie
23:25 nothingmuch dmo: yep
23:25 nothingmuch but actually, false alarm
23:26 nothingmuch when I replace WebKit it doesn't work
23:26 * nothingmuch swaps back
23:26 dmo fsck!
23:26 nothingmuch nevermind, i just remembered I actually paid for this version of SOX
23:26 nothingmuch OSX
23:26 nothingmuch so I can restore from CD ;-)
23:26 dmo running tiger right ?
23:26 nothingmuch yep
23:26 osfameron nothingmuch: is that more important than the fact that $string->isa, $undef->isa etc. will die because they're not blessed objects ?
23:26 dmo dunno then
23:27 nothingmuch osfameron: yes, because if you're going to check on a class you're probably going to make calls, and if you're going to make calls it'll die anyway
23:27 nothingmuch UNIVERSAL::isa is not Params::Validate
23:27 nothingmuch it's more like Class::Introspect
23:27 nothingmuch and if a class is lying it has a good reason
23:27 nothingmuch every time I try to use Test::MockObject some module gets in the way
23:28 dmo has quit IRC ()
23:31 nothingmuch osfameron: am i making progress in brainwashing you?
23:31 osfameron nothingmuch: I guess I get the point
23:32 osfameron but as I haven't really used Test::MockObject I haven't really had the problem
23:32 osfameron and I don't see why I shouldn't use a perfectly good function in the language
23:32 nothingmuch so will you 'use UNIVERSAL::isa "isa"' whenever you want to use it as a function?
23:32 nothingmuch well, because if you do that in your modules other people suffer
23:32 osfameron which is quoted in perldocs and stuff as what to use instead of ref
23:32 nothingmuch perldocs suck in that respect
23:32 osfameron because some other module wants to do some evil magic.
23:32 nothingmuch we have Scalar::Util reftype
23:33 nothingmuch and Scalar::Util::blessed
23:33 osfameron if (blessed($foo) && $foo->isa(whatever)) ?
23:33 osfameron I guess it's not much more pain
23:33 nothingmuch no
23:34 nothingmuch 'use UNIVERSAL::isa "isa"', 'isa($foo, whatever)'
23:34 nothingmuch if you want it as a function that way behaves correctly
23:34 nothingmuch otherwise you can do that
23:34 nothingmuch but blessed($foo) && $foo->isa(whatever) is a lot of work
23:34 osfameron ah
23:34 nothingmuch if you really want to verify that it's an object, you might as well use something more suited for the task
23:34 nothingmuch (e.g. Params::Validate)
23:34 osfameron I don't like the way that the module perldoc says I'm stupid
23:34 osfameron :-)
23:35 nothingmuch sorry, i was annoyed when I wrote that
23:35 nothingmuch patches welcome
23:35 nothingmuch and chromatic's UNIVERSAL::can is more polite ;-)
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23:39 osfameron hm, I guess UNIVERSAL::isa module is a reasonable reimplementation of the function
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23:40 osfameron of course I guess perl6 will be able to do things like $scalar.isa('SCALAR') um 'ACTUALSCALAR' or something
23:40 nothingmuch osfameron: ask stevan =)
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