Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-07-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:41 stevan osfameron: ask $Larry # delegation :)
00:42 Khisanth not @Larry?
00:42 Khisanth probably should be %Larry :)
00:49 stevan Khisanth: %Larry<lwall> :)
00:50 nothingmuch package Stevan { @larry handles <AUTOMETHO> }
00:51 cm what does that do?
00:55 Khisanth 9 character limit?
00:56 cm 8 and the dot :D
00:57 nothingmuch oopsm sorry
00:57 nothingmuch errm, handles is delegation
00:58 cm all functions in Stevan are delegated to larry?
00:58 nothingmuch it should have been 'has @larry handles <AUTOMETHOD> }{
00:58 nothingmuch where the method AUTOMETHOD is defined as 'method AUTOMETHOD { @larry>>.AUTOMETHOD(*@_) } sort of
00:58 nothingmuch except that it's magical
00:59 cm magick.
00:59 stevan dont ask me, I dont know :)(
01:00 stevan and I am lazy, so I am a bad delegator
01:00 cm that makes you a good one, actually ;)
01:00 stevan no lazy in the wrong way :)
01:01 Khisanth you don't delegate until uneccessary? :)
01:01 cm :)
01:02 stevan nah, I ignore it and let someone else ask
01:02 stevan or I confuse the person until they just go to p6l themselves :)
01:03 nothingmuch cm: AUTOMETHOD is like AUTOLOAD
01:03 nothingmuch ons that aren't defined (that stevan doesn't know), are delegated
01:03 nothingmuch brian_d_foy is annoying
01:04 nothingmuch he always disagrees with me on stupid issues
01:04 nothingmuch and he's never nice
01:04 cm i could use AUTOCHARGE which catapults my laptop's battery power back to 100% right now..
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02:39 svnbot6 r5629, Stevan++ | Per6::MetaModel -
02:39 svnbot6 r5629, Stevan++ | * much work on Dispatcher
02:39 svnbot6 r5629, Stevan++ |     - added tests for it
02:39 svnbot6 r5629, Stevan++ |     - moved Dispatcher to seperate file
02:39 svnbot6 r5629, Stevan++ | * stub test for attribute handles
02:39 svnbot6 r5629, Stevan++ | * 'next METHOD' implemented as next_METHOD()
02:39 svnbot6 r5629, Stevan++ |     - tests for this
02:39 svnbot6 r5629, Stevan++ | * WALKMETH and WALKCLASS iterators implemented
02:39 svnbot6 r5629, Stevan++ |     - not formally tested, but Object and next_METHOD() use it
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04:32 putter autrijus: what is the difference between blib6/lib and blib/lib? If it's p6 vs p5, then I note that yesterday someone on #perl6 was having trouble with ./pugs -Iblib6/lib t/mumble, but succeeded with -Iblib/lib.  Which might mean that if they did  make install ... So perhaps we still have a problem.
04:33 stevan howdy putter
04:33 stevan p5ugs looks pretty cool
04:34 autrijus putter: oh? I don't remember seeing that. the p6/p5 distinction is iirc only broken during that single night
04:47 stevan autrijus: if you find yourself with some free time, I could use a sanity check on design of the MetaClass::Dispatcher work
04:47 svnbot6 r5630, putter++ | Moved PIL-Run/lib/PIL/Run/Root/P5Runtime to PIL-Run/lib6/P5Runtime.  Expanation to follow.
04:48 autrijus stevan: ok, will do!
04:48 stevan muchas gracias
04:48 autrijus np :) I'm still in reading-a-lot-of-papers-be​fore-writing-PIL-evaluator mode
04:49 stevan Perl6::Object is in desperate need of a refactor too, I will get to that this weekend
04:49 autrijus but I expect this phase to end in a couple days at most. then I'll be back to hack mode for linking PIL and object space together
04:49 autrijus cool!
04:49 stevan that VB guys paper was pretty good
04:49 autrijus yeah, isn't it.
04:49 stevan It made me go back and pick up my ML book again
04:50 * autrijus notes the most fun of pugs development is the constant cycle of 1)learn amazing new stuff and 2)make it happen
04:50 stevan agreed :)
04:58 putter howdy stevan
04:58 stevan heya putter :)
04:58 stevan finally,.. real Submethods :)
04:59 putter :)
04:59 stevan I only had to implement a dispatcher, WALKMETH and next METHOD to get them
05:00 putter sigh, looks like my last svn mv director to anotherdirectory confused svn.  Even a clean checkout wont let me create a new perl5/PIL-Run/lib/PIL/Run/Root/README.  Gives me a
05:00 putter svn: '.../pugs/lib/PIL/Run' is not a working copy
05:01 putter so progress, _and_ progress! ;)
05:01 stevan :)
05:01 stevan thats the great thing about VCS
05:01 stevan cd ../; rm -rf pugs; svn co http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs
05:02 putter did.  didn't help. :(
05:05 putter note the bogus path name in the error message. :(
05:05 svnbot6 r5631, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel -
05:05 svnbot6 r5631, Stevan++ | * real honest to goodness submethods (as speced by $Larry)
05:05 svnbot6 r5631, Stevan++ |     - tests are now active again and passing
05:05 svnbot6 r5631, Stevan++ |     - had to do some hacks around BUILD and DESTORY which I will
05:05 svnbot6 r5631, Stevan++ |       try and fix this weekend
05:06 stevan putter: removing the entire directory and doing a fresh check out still didnt work??
05:08 stevan night folks :)
05:08 stevan &
05:08 putter correct.  suggesting the underlying vcs is borked.
05:08 putter good night. &
05:10 * autrijus mumbles something about svk iirc has this fixed
05:14 masak seen nothingmuch
05:14 jabbot masak: nothingmuch was seen 4 hours 10 minutes 30 seconds ago
05:14 svnbot6 r5632, putter++ | Trying to get svn unbroken.
05:16 masak i was going to ask nothingmuch about the phrase "gay camels in denial" in one of his recent emails
05:17 masak i parsed it as he must have intended, but did a double take on it afterwards
05:18 autrijus hm?
05:19 masak thing is, what are the camels in denial about?
05:19 masak being camels, or being gay?
05:19 autrijus he must have intended the latter
05:19 svnbot6 r5633, putter++ | Trying to get svn unbroken.
05:19 masak :)
05:20 * masak pictures a camel coming out of a closet
05:21 Khisanth big closet
05:21 masak or small camel
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05:25 Darren_Duncan that comment didn't make sense to me either
05:25 svnbot6 r5634, putter++ | Trying to get svn unbroken.
05:26 Darren_Duncan I just updated to 5634 ... so far svn seems to work with it
05:27 Darren_Duncan (my previous post was re nothingmuch' email)
05:27 masak :)
05:27 masak it made sense to me, it was only later that i saw the ambiguity
05:28 Darren_Duncan I just don't see what gay has to do with programming
05:28 masak gay can mean happy too
05:28 Darren_Duncan yes
05:28 masak i think that was his intended meaning
05:28 Darren_Duncan in fact, thats the original meaning
05:29 Darren_Duncan it's too bad the word was perverted
05:29 putter Darren_Duncan: could you try editing a file, say something trivial like adding a newline, and checking it in.  I can create a README with out attributes, but not with, nor edit or add attributes to it once it exists.  All with clean checkouts inbetween. svn--
05:29 Darren_Duncan no longer can someone say "let's have a gay old time"
05:29 masak sure you can
05:29 masak but not without risking being misunderstood
05:29 Darren_Duncan that's the point
05:29 masak i read nothingmuch's phrase as "joyous perl-writers who do not admit that they are now functional programmers"
05:30 masak and later as "homosexual camels who refuse to admit being homosexual"
05:32 masak Darren_Duncan: i wouldn't go so far as saying that the word "gay" was perverted. it was hijacked, that's all
05:32 svnbot6 r5635, putter++ | Trying to work around svn brokenness.
05:32 masak happens a lot to positively connotated words
05:32 Darren_Duncan both of those words mean 'used differently' in a broader sense
05:33 Darren_Duncan putter, I just updated the ChangeLog and committed it; you should see a new section for 6.2.9 on top ... no errors seen yet
05:34 masak Darren_Duncan: both of what words?
05:34 Darren_Duncan both of 'perverted' and 'hijacked'
05:34 masak ah
05:35 autrijus lunch, bbiab
05:35 masak and they both have a sort of negative ring to them
05:35 Darren_Duncan putter, so that change was actually useful, but served to show that svn seems to be behaving normally
05:35 masak but in different ways
05:36 Darren_Duncan and of course, we all know another hijacked word ... 'hacker'
05:36 Darren_Duncan much closer to home that one
05:36 putter Darren_Duncan: thank you for your help.  appreciated.  turned out I was confused.
05:36 Darren_Duncan care to explain ... or not?
05:38 masak 'perverted' means 'immoral', 'aberrant', 'polluted' (i.e. relating to morality), whereas 'hijacked' means 'annexed', 'stolen', 'swiped' (relating to theft)
05:38 svnbot6 r5636, Darren_Duncan++ | testing that the server works ... added a 6.2.9 template to the ChangeLog
05:38 svnbot6 r5637, putter++ | Moved the p5 runtime's p6 code from lib/PIL/Run/Root to a new lib6/.  Left a README behind.  PIL::Run::Root is the _private scratch space_ for the runtime.  It's not a place to put files.  Svn is fine - putter was confused.  svn ci -m message, single quoted, had possessive quote-s.  svn error messages resulted in some odd way from rest of message body.
05:39 putter coming up in commit message.  was commit message.  ci -m'...runtime's ... lib/PIL/Run/Root ...' became the svn ci error  svn: 'absolutepath.../pugs/lib/PIL/Run' is not a working copy
05:40 putter strong hint from the universe that it's time to sleep.  putter thanks universe, but observes he knew that 1 hr of svn fiddling ago. :(
05:40 Darren_Duncan yup
05:40 putter sigh ;)
05:41 masak Darren_Duncan: in other words, i wouldn't say 'gay' has been morally perverted as a word, just stolen by lobbyists to mean something different
05:41 Darren_Duncan what you say is true
05:42 putter putter-- putter-- putter-- putter-- # normalizing karma.
05:42 ajs_home has joined #perl6
05:42 Darren_Duncan and there's lucky #100
05:43 masak putter: don't be so hard on yourself. putter++
05:43 * Darren_Duncan remembers a joke about a karma and a dogma
05:44 Darren_Duncan you've probably heard it already, but ask if not ... its a pun
05:44 putter rapl, anyone who understands perl5 installation, see note 1hr10min ago to autrijus... "does the make install smashing user's p5 lib/ problem still exist?".
05:44 putter masak: ;) tnx.
05:44 Darren_Duncan smashing!
05:45 putter good night all. & ;)
05:45 Darren_Duncan and good night to you also
05:45 masak good night
05:45 putter has quit IRC ("Leaving")
05:45 Darren_Duncan and we're back to 99 bottles
05:45 masak Darren_Duncan: I think I sense the punchline of the pun, but tell anyway
05:46 Darren_Duncan it's the simple phrase, substitute people to flavor: your karma ran over my dogma
05:46 masak ah
05:46 * masak smiles
05:47 Darren_Duncan I think its well known over here, but I don't know about other places
05:47 Darren_Duncan still, puns are simply by nature, easy to invent, easy to discover or share
05:47 masak the whole perl6 community is saturated with in-jokes
05:47 Darren_Duncan s/simply/simple/
05:47 Darren_Duncan that joke's origin has nothing to perl though, fyi
05:47 masak true
05:48 masak it must be older than that
05:48 Darren_Duncan I'm sure it could be used though, since lots of people on forums talk about karma
05:48 Darren_Duncan especially slashdot
05:48 masak :)
05:49 Darren_Duncan and just a few minutes ago I found the word is connected with what all that '++' I see here is about
05:49 masak yes
05:49 Darren_Duncan before I simply thought it was short hand for "good for you"
05:50 Darren_Duncan aka "good job"
05:50 masak it probably was at first
05:50 masak then someone put a bot here for keeping score
05:50 masak i'm surprised the system isn't misused
05:50 Darren_Duncan ah bots ... can't live with them, can't live without them
05:50 masak lol
05:51 Darren_Duncan I'm aware of the 'eval' and the 'seen' and the commit-reporter, but that's about it
05:51 Darren_Duncan there's a new one
05:51 masak but think about it, it's impressive that nobody has abused the karma system to get lots of karma
05:51 Darren_Duncan so how do you query the bot to see the current score?
05:51 masak karma Darren_Duncan
05:51 jabbot masak: Darren_Duncan has neutral karma
05:52 Darren_Duncan so no numbers given then
05:52 masak Darren_Duncan++ # you need karma
05:52 masak karma Darren_Duncan
05:52 jabbot masak: Darren_Duncan has neutral karma
05:52 Darren_Duncan karma masak
05:52 jabbot Darren_Duncan: masak has karma of 11
05:52 masak karma autrijus
05:52 jabbot masak: autrijus has karma of 574
05:52 masak :)
05:52 masak he must be #1 on the karma list
05:52 Darren_Duncan frankly, I don't recall ever getting anything but '++', and seem to have gotten about a dozen of them
05:52 Darren_Duncan nothing major but nothing zero
05:53 Darren_Duncan still, I'm not worried about it ... don't bother with artificial inflation
05:53 masak maybe the underscore in your name ruins the regex matching
05:53 Darren_Duncan mayhaps
05:53 Darren_Duncan actually, including my commits, it should be up to 30 at least
05:54 Darren_Duncan lets see what putter did to himself a few mins ago ...
05:54 Darren_Duncan karma putter
05:54 jabbot Darren_Duncan: putter has karma of 35
05:54 Darren_Duncan still positive
05:54 masak don't bother with artificial inflation?
05:54 masak ?eval "masak++" xx 20
05:54 evalbot6 ('masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++', 'masak++')
05:54 masak :P
05:54 masak ?eval "masak--" xx 20
05:54 Darren_Duncan karma masak
05:54 jabbot Darren_Duncan: masak has karma of 11
05:54 evalbot6 ('masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--', 'masak--')
05:54 masak phew
05:55 Darren_Duncan it didn't change from before
05:55 Darren_Duncan was 11 last time
05:55 Darren_Duncan so, how big a number beside xx until the evalbot gets kicked for flooding?
05:56 masak good question
05:56 Darren_Duncan you going to test it?
05:56 Darren_Duncan just not with my name
05:56 masak another funny one: can you put a delay on evalbot, and have it say strange things hours later?
05:56 Darren_Duncan I wonder if 'sleep' is disabled as unsafe?
05:57 masak ?eval sleep 8
05:57 evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&sleep"
05:57 Darren_Duncan I know that 'say' is
05:57 Darren_Duncan seems so
05:57 masak yep
05:57 Darren_Duncan so it won't be easy to do what you suggest
05:57 masak maybe a heavy calculation to slow it down
05:57 Darren_Duncan another option, unless disabled, is to register a signal handler
05:58 Darren_Duncan or unless that isn't supported by Pugs yet
05:58 * Darren_Duncan switching tasks ... ping if you want my attention
05:59 masak ?eval my $a = 0; for 1..100000 { $a++; $a-- } "boo!"
05:59 evalbot6 (no output)
05:59 masak :(
06:02 Juerd Use a lower 100_000
06:02 Juerd Like, ehm, 15.
06:17 masak Juerd: but i want evalbot to stall for a while. preferable a few hours
06:17 masak s/ble/bly/
06:24 masak hm. maybe such behaviour could be useful instead of "abuseful"
06:25 masak like, say, a rememberbot.p6 that keeps track of when people are asking a question to absentees
06:26 masak and later, when that other person shows up, passes on the question
06:26 masak the syntax could be something like:
06:27 masak rembot, ask nothingmuch about the gay camels
06:27 masak and when nothingmuch shows up, rembot says "nothingmuch: masak has a question about the gay camels"
06:32 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
06:36 Aankhen`` Morning.
06:48 autrijus greetings Aankhen``.
06:48 Aankhen`` autrijus :-D
06:48 Aankhen`` What's shakin'?
06:49 Juerd masak: It's protected against that, IIRC
06:50 autrijus Aankhen``: nothing much
06:51 Aankhen`` Hrm, I don't see him here...
06:51 Aankhen`` :-P
06:52 autrijus I'm reading way too many papers
06:52 Aankhen`` Ahh.
06:52 autrijus all of them interesting but not all of which useful
06:52 gaal autrijus, hey. any thoughts about arranging the hooks for eval.p6?
06:52 Aankhen`` Heh.
06:52 gaal you mentioned a debugger on the horizon....
06:52 autrijus gaal: why, yes, write something that rebinds envEval
06:52 gaal (morning all :-)
06:52 Aankhen`` Hola gaal++.
06:52 autrijus gaal: envEval can be hooked to some user defined funs
06:52 autrijus simply by reifying Exp somehow
06:53 autrijus I'm not sure it pays to do that now rather than do it as part of PIL evaluator
06:53 autrijus but the basic idea is simple
06:53 autrijus since all of our evalExp first looks up envEval
06:53 autrijus once you rebind it you have effectively enabled a different interpreter, lexically
06:53 autrijus (or rather, dynamically)
06:54 autrijus eg this prim: sub runwith (Code &evaluator, Code &code) { }
06:54 autrijus which simply does a
06:54 autrijus local (\e -> e{ envEval = (envEval e =<<) . evaluator }) evalExp code
06:54 autrijus or something like that.
06:55 autrijus am I making some sort of sense?
06:55 gaal a scary sort.
06:55 gaal :)
06:55 autrijus oh. good.
06:55 autrijus it's not unlike &DB::DB.
06:56 autrijus (assuming you already know what that is)
06:56 gaal i think i understand why this has to be dynamically scoped
06:57 gaal the evaluation happens when control reaches runwith
06:57 gaal i'll look into DB::DB
06:58 gaal hmm, first i should really finish the build prefs thing
06:58 gaal much easier :)
06:58 autrijus yes :)
06:59 autrijus DB::DB is explained in perldebguts and maybe perldeb
06:59 autrijus perldebug I mean
06:59 autrijus as well as other places
06:59 gaal i read the source code once but purely for entertainment purposes.
07:00 gaal (of... perldebug.pl was it?)
07:01 gaal my terminal emulator (putty) has started doing something very weird: it drops random characters.
07:01 gaal it didn't use to do that
07:02 gaal i'm trying to remember if it started after i dist-upgraded or not
07:05 gaal oh it looks like this screen session is at fault
07:05 gaal too bad, i think it's open for over a hundred days
07:07 autrijus does a ^A Z  help?
07:07 gaal doesn't that suspend screen?
07:08 gaal it's definitely screen and not putty though - when i shell out with that sequence, the bug disapperears.
07:08 autrijus big Z is reset
07:08 gaal ah!
07:08 gaal no :(
07:08 autrijus :(
07:09 autrijus see you again soon then
07:09 autrijus ;)
07:09 gaal echo '^V^A' doesn't help either (that's reset also, isn't it?
07:09 gaal )
07:10 gaal i mean, of course it is, but it's the *same* one i think?
07:10 autrijus likely
07:10 iblechbot has joined #perl6
07:10 gaal brb
07:10 autrijus I'm afraid there's nothing much you can do then
07:20 gaal "Utmp slot not found - not removed" :-(
07:20 gaal this fascination with uptimes is funny and silly at once
07:21 gaal the machine itself will celebrate day 200 of uptime this week
07:21 gaal at $work years ago we had a 400 day linux box
07:21 gaal then some technitian pulled the plug
07:21 gaal it's totally meaningless, but of course it was very sad
07:22 autrijus this is not very unlike tamagotchi.
07:23 autrijus :)
07:23 autrijus forutnately I've never played tamagotchi.
07:23 gaal though in screen sessions, there's actually some value lost; shell histories, scrap files, vi open on the first line of a story i want to some day complete...
07:24 gaal it's unzen to fret about that - but it's also impossible to work with constant interruptions
07:24 gaal therefore, i will now keep quiet for a bit :-)
07:24 autrijus mu :)
07:33 cwest autrijus: I just got JSAN on CIA this evening. We're tied on the leader board. :-)
07:33 cwest But of course I'm going to sleep very very soon.
07:34 autrijus url to the leader board? :)
07:34 autrijus oh. you want svnbot6?
07:35 cwest No, I'm going to get CIA's bot on #jsan
07:35 autrijus ok
07:35 cwest let someone else do the hard work.
07:35 cwest http://cia.navi.cx/
07:35 autrijus sure thing
07:35 cwest "Most active authors today"
07:35 autrijus congrats :)
07:35 cwest Some of that was testing the gateway, the python programmer who wrote ciabot_svn.py broke it.
07:36 cwest So I had to fix it, which means I had to add Python to the "list of technologies I never want to know anything about, but do anyway."
07:37 cwest But this is all off-topic and as I said, I must sleep. By the way, anarchistic project management is a dream come true. Thanks for proving it works. :-)
07:38 autrijus go sleep, you mad rhinocamel :)
07:38 autrijus I forsee a great deal of fun in your future. :)
07:42 autrijus well, I'll just be anarchistic on you and unleash svnbot on #jsan :)
07:42 autrijus ...done
07:42 cwest :-)
07:42 cwest I love solutions.
07:43 * cwest & # sleepink da
07:45 gaal say, is it correct for the 'ghci' target in Makefile not to have the same dependencies as $pugs / optimimzed / profiled etc.?
07:45 autrijus probably not.
07:46 gaal also shouldn't the interactive pugs also have precompiled prelude, at least optionally?
07:46 autrijus yes.
07:46 autrijus so by all means improve that :)
07:47 gaal okay, so i'm factoring out all the targets that build a pugs to a p5 script that does the yaml/env thing.
07:47 autrijus lubly.
07:51 Khisanth gaal: doesn't it have that already? O_O
07:51 gaal doesn't it have what?
07:52 Khisanth <gaal> also shouldn't the interactive pugs also have precompiled prelude, at least optionally < that
07:52 gaal oh. no.
07:53 Khisanth hmm so something else is making it start much faster?
07:53 gaal the fact that it has no prelude at all? :)
07:53 gaal oh
07:53 gaal i meant the ghci version
07:53 gaal not pugs w/o any params
07:54 gaal THAT interactive pugs does have the prelude.
07:54 gaal :)
07:54 autrijus also I noted that when I started make ghci with bypass prelude
07:54 autrijus I end up with something that has no prims at all
07:54 autrijus but anyway... it should by all means agree with regular pugs
07:54 gaal yup.
07:55 gaal i don't see where the default make target gets set to something that builds pugs
07:55 gaal there's no explicit 'default'
07:55 gaal and the first
07:55 gaal aahh
07:55 gaal (double colons)--
07:55 gaal multiple "pure_all" definitions ;)
08:00 Khisanth gaal: it was just make and the ./pugs
08:00 Khisanth that is the one I am refering to
08:01 gaal yes, i see now. i was referring to 'make ghci'.
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08:10 gaal i never wanted a portable command-line-armored perl hash serialization format before in my life. hmm.
08:11 gaal migo, hey. are you coming to the hackathon?
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08:31 gaal autrijus, is MiniYAML.pm moved up from Config/ on purpose?
08:34 gaal also: i need Perl6::Pugs::Config at build time. okay to 'use lib' in my script? or should that be parametized with MM stuff to take it from blib6?
08:37 autrijus gaal: no, it's not, feel free to move it back
08:38 autrijus 'use lib' is fine. if this is only build time, move to inc/
08:38 autrijus if it's used in both buildtime and postinstall runtime, use lib lib is fine.
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08:40 gaal inc it is then, though that probably means i should avoid the Perl6::Pugs part of the namespace to avoid confusion
08:42 gaal this stuff is just a little too big to be put in util/, and a little too hacky to be an independent set of modules :)
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09:43 gaal is there any sense at all in leaving in the old inlining mechanism? the one that includes a quoted source prelude and evals it on pugs load.
09:44 gaal currently it's dead code, but if anyone sees the use of it i can make it optional.
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09:45 gaal it removes the requirement of pugscc always working :) but i'm not sure if that's a pro.
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10:06 autrijus just ditch it :)
10:06 gaal k
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10:21 gaal is IPC::Open2 core in 5.6? remind me again where the core module list lives?
10:22 Maddingue IPC::Open2  was first released with perl 5.000
10:23 gaal good enough for us, thanks.
10:23 Maddingue for the core modules list, Module::CoreList, which installs the command corelist
10:24 gaal great, thank you :)
10:26 Maddingue no problem :)
10:33 gaal autrijus, is Pugs.CodeGen.PIR.Prelude.hs still active?
10:33 masak has left
10:34 gaal i wasn't aware that src/gen_prelude was handling that
10:36 integral Pugs.Compile.Pugs2 might also be removed as it's not hooked into Pugs.CodeGen
10:38 gaal integral, please remove it then. i don't know that part of the source tree
10:39 * integral doesn't really know that module either
10:40 iblechbot has joined #perl6
10:41 gaal um, its svn log is only two commits long.. frozen lead?
10:43 integral hmm, must be, I'll just remove it then :-)
10:44 gaal hmmm, it looks like CodeGen.PIR is indeed using a source-inlined prelude.
10:45 gaal so we're stuck with src/gen_prelude :)
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10:50 svnbot6 r5638, gaal++ | drop source-inlined Prelude from build (but note that src/gen_prelude
10:50 svnbot6 r5638, gaal++ | is still used for by Pugs.CodeGen.PIR.Prelude)
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10:56 Aankhen`` ?eval ('a', 'b', 'c', 'd').sort:{ $^b cmp $^a }
10:56 evalbot6 ('d', 'c', 'b', 'a')
10:57 Aankhen`` ?eval time
10:57 evalbot6 174826629.213414
10:57 Aankhen`` ?eval int(time)
10:57 evalbot6 174826641
10:57 Aankhen`` ?eval my $now = time; ($now, int($now))
10:57 evalbot6 (\174826661.209474, 174826661)
10:59 Aankhen`` ?eval while (1..10) { $_ }
10:59 evalbot6 (no output)
10:59 Aankhen`` ?eval my $i = 0; while (1..10) { next } continue { $i++ }; $i++
10:59 evalbot6 (no output)
11:00 Aankhen`` ?eval my $i = 0; while (1..10) { next } continue { $i++ }; $i
11:00 evalbot6 (no output)
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11:09 Aankh|Clone is now known as Aankhen``
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11:20 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo { @_ }; my $quux = "hahahaha"; foo(:bar<baz>, :quux($quux))
11:20 evalbot6 []
11:21 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo ($bar, $quux) { ($bar, $quux) }; my $quux = "hahahaha"; foo(:bar<baz>, :quux($quux))
11:21 evalbot6 (\'baz', \'hahahaha')
11:26 QtPlatypus ?eval sub foo (*@bar) { (@bar) }; foo ("A"=>"pair");
11:26 evalbot6 []
11:26 QtPlatypus ?eval sub foo (*@bar) { (@bar) }; foo ("A","pair");
11:26 evalbot6 ['A', 'pair']
11:26 * QtPlatypus wonders if thats the correct responce.
11:27 Aankhen`` I think that's a little messed up...
11:27 wolverian maybe *%_ is implicit?
11:28 Aankhen`` Hmm...
11:28 osfameron has joined #perl6
11:28 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo (*@bar) { *%_ }; foo (:A<pair>);
11:28 evalbot6 Error: Undeclared variable: "%_"
11:28 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo (*@bar) { @bar }; foo (:A<pair>);
11:28 evalbot6 []
11:29 Aankhen`` I love the LOTR soundtrack.
11:30 Aankhen`` ?eval index('foo', 'fo')
11:30 evalbot6 0
11:30 Aankhen`` ?eval index('foo', 'o')
11:30 evalbot6 1
11:30 Aankhen`` ?eval 'foo'.index('oo')
11:31 evalbot6 1
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11:34 masak has joined #perl6
11:34 QtPlatypus ?eval my $i=0;my @lazy = given { for (1..10) { $i++;take $_ } };($i,shift @lazy,$i);
11:34 evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&given"
11:34 Aankhen`` ?eval my $i=0;my @lazy = gather { for (1..10) { $i++;take $_ } };($i,shift @lazy,$i);
11:34 evalbot6 (\10, 1, \10)
11:34 QtPlatypus ?eval my $i=0;my @lazy = gather { for (1..10) { $i++;take $_ } };($i,shift @lazy,$i);
11:34 evalbot6 (\10, 1, \10)
11:34 QtPlatypus ?eval my $i=0;my @lazy = lazy {gather { for (1..10) { $i++;take $_ } }};($i,shift @lazy,$i);
11:34 evalbot6 (\10, 1, \10)
11:35 masak why is the $i a ref to 10?
11:35 Aankhen`` ?eval my $foo = 10; $foo
11:35 evalbot6 \10
11:36 masak does that explain it? :)
11:36 wolverian ?eval my $foo = 10; +$foo
11:36 evalbot6 10
11:36 wolverian it's a ref until you don't want it to be.
11:36 masak ok
11:36 masak why a ref from the beginning?
11:36 Aankhen`` [17:06:00] <masak> does that explain it? :) # it was supposed to :-P
11:36 masak why would i ref 10?
11:37 QtPlatypus masak: varables in a scaler context return refs to themselves.
11:37 masak yes...
11:37 masak but usually to things stored somewhere
11:37 masak 10 is just an abstraction
11:38 masak like "love" or "justice"
11:39 masak :)
11:40 masak my point is, i think, that in p5 land backspace returns the reference to a piece of data
11:40 masak which is stored in memory somewhere
11:40 masak the natural numbers are not stored in memory somewhere
11:41 masak so where does the reference go?
11:44 osfameron_ has joined #perl6
11:44 QtPlatypus Its a pointer to the box that $foo uses to store 10 (I think)
11:45 Aankh|Clone has joined #perl6
11:46 masak QtPlatypus: is there only one box with a 10 in it, or can there be several?
11:47 QtPlatypus ?eval sub odd (Code $code) {...};sub odd(Int $code) {...}; odd(1);odd {1};
11:47 evalbot6 *** ... - not yet implemented     at <eval> line 1, column 23-26
11:47 QtPlatypus ?eval sub odd (Code $code) {2};sub odd(Int $code) {2}; odd(1);odd {1};
11:47 evalbot6 2
11:47 QtPlatypus ?eval sub odd (Code $code) {2};sub odd(Int $code) {3}; odd(1);odd {1};
11:47 evalbot6 2
11:48 QtPlatypus ?eval sub odd (Code $code) {2};sub odd(Int $code) {3}; odd {1};
11:48 evalbot6 2
11:48 QtPlatypus ?eval sub odd (&code) {2};sub odd(Int $code) {3}; odd {1};
11:48 evalbot6 2
11:48 QtPlatypus ?eval sub odd (&code) {2};sub odd(Int $code) {3}; odd(2);
11:48 evalbot6 3
11:48 QtPlatypus ?eval sub odd (&code) {2};sub odd(Rule $code) {3}; odd /a+/;
11:48 evalbot6 3
11:49 QtPlatypus Ok, that a bug that must have been solved since my last version.
11:49 QtPlatypus masak: I don't have any clue.
11:49 QtPlatypus ?eval my @code = (1,2,3);@code;
11:49 evalbot6 [1, 2, 3]
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12:03 Limbic_Region ?eval my @code = 1...; @code;
12:03 evalbot6 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
12:03 Limbic_Region heh
12:04 Limbic_Region ?eval my @code = 1...; @code[42];
12:04 evalbot6 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
12:04 Limbic_Region definately not lazy
12:11 masak is there any way to write a backslash as a single backslash within a string in perl6?
12:11 coral what's the syntax for an OR junction?
12:12 masak coral: `|`
12:12 coral ?eval my @code = 1..3;@code;
12:12 evalbot6 [1, 2, 3]
12:12 coral ?eval my @code = (0|1)..(3|4);@code;
12:12 evalbot6 [(((0, 1, 2, 3) | (0, 1, 2, 3, 4)) | ((1, 2, 3) | (1, 2, 3, 4)))]
12:13 coral ?eval my @code = (0|1)..10;@code;
12:13 evalbot6 [((0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) |   (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10))]
12:13 coral thanks
12:13 QtPlatypus Thats an incredably powerfull/dangerious tool.
12:13 masak impressive.
12:14 coral ?eval my @code = 0 x 3;
12:14 evalbot6 ['000']
12:14 coral so to make that a listop i probably append or surround it..
12:14 QtPlatypus ?eval (a|b|c) x 3
12:14 evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&a"
12:14 QtPlatypus ?eval ("a"|"b"|"c") x 3
12:14 evalbot6 'aaa'
12:15 coral ?eval (0|1) >>x<< 3
12:15 evalbot6 Error: Hyper OP only works on lists
12:15 coral heh
12:15 coral i guess a junction technically isn't a list
12:15 coral ?eval (0|1)
12:15 evalbot6 0
12:20 coral ?eval sub decision () returns Int { (0|1) } decision x 3
12:20 evalbot6 '000'
12:20 coral ?eval sub decision () returns Int { (0|1) } decision for 1..10
12:20 evalbot6 undef
12:21 coral ?eval sub decision ($length) returns Int { (0|1) for 1..$length } decision(10)
12:21 evalbot6 undef
12:21 * coral reads more
12:23 QtPlatypus coral: Your missing a ";"
12:23 coral ?eval sub decision ($length) returns Int { (0|1) for 1..$length; } decision(10);
12:23 evalbot6 undef
12:23 coral hmm.
12:23 coral sub {}; # ?
12:24 QtPlatypus I ment between } and decision
12:24 coral ?eval sub decision ($length) returns Int { (0|1) for 1..$length; }; decision(10);
12:24 evalbot6 undef
12:25 coral ?eval sub decision ($length) returns List { (0|1) for 1..$length; }; decision(10);
12:25 evalbot6 undef
12:29 coral ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns List { map:{ (0|1) } 1..$length; }; decision(3);
12:29 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "1" expecting adverbial block, term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or "}"
12:30 coral ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns List { map -> { (0|1) } 1..$length; }; decision(3);
12:30 evalbot6 ()
12:30 coral erg, can't privmsg it. sorry for the noise.
12:30 QtPlatypus ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns List { map { (0|1) } 1..$length} decision(3);
12:30 evalbot6 ((0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1))
12:31 coral oh, duh. ok
12:31 coral QtPlatypus++
12:31 * QtPlatypus mmms
12:31 QtPlatypus ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns List { map { (0|1) } 1..$length}; [|] decision(3);
12:31 evalbot6 Error: Cannot reduce() using a unary or nullary function.
12:32 QtPlatypus !!!
12:32 coral ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns List { map { [|] (0|1) } 1..$length} decision(3);
12:32 evalbot6 Error: Cannot reduce() using a unary or nullary function.
12:32 coral ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns List { map { "" _ (0|1) } 1..$length} decision(3);
12:32 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "{" expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";", "}", ":" or term postfix
12:32 QtPlatypus ?eval [|] (1,2,3,4,5)
12:32 evalbot6 Error: Cannot reduce() using a unary or nullary function.
12:32 coral heh, nope.
12:33 masak ?eval my @a; push @a, ["." xx 3] for 1..3; @a[any(0..2)][any(0..2)] eq "."
12:33 evalbot6 Error: cannot cast from VJunc any(VInt 0,VInt 1,VInt 2) to Double (VNum)
12:33 masak does anyone know if the above should work?
12:33 masak i think it should
12:34 QtPlatypus ?eval my @a; push @a, ["." xx 3] for 1..3;any(@a[0..2][0..]) eq ".";
12:34 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "a" expecting ";", statements or end of input
12:34 QtPlatypus ?eval my @a; push @a, ["." xx 3] for 1..3;any(@a[0..2][0..2]) eq ".";
12:34 evalbot6 bool::false
12:35 QtPlatypus That's not right.
12:35 masak no
12:35 coral ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns List { map -> { (0|1) } 1..$length; }; map { "$_" } decision(3);
12:35 evalbot6 ()
12:36 QtPlatypus ?eval my @a; push @a, ["." xx 3] for 1..3;@a
12:36 evalbot6 [('.', '.', '.'), ('.', '.', '.'), ('.', '.', '.')]
12:36 coral aha!
12:36 coral ?eval (0|1) xx 3
12:36 evalbot6 (0, 0, 0)
12:36 coral ?eval (0|1) xx 10
12:36 evalbot6 (0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)
12:36 masak huh?
12:36 masak bug?
12:37 * QtPlatypus nods "I think so"
12:37 QtPlatypus Two bugs.
12:37 QtPlatypus Coral's bug and Masak's one.
12:37 * masak doesn't like junction bugs
12:37 masak they're hard to write tests for
12:37 coral ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns List { map -> { (0|1) } 1..$length; }; decision xx 3;
12:37 evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&xx"
12:38 coral ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns Int { (0|1) }; decision xx 3;
12:38 evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&xx"
12:38 QtPlatypus And my reduce bug.
12:38 coral ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns Int { (0|1) }; (decision) xx 3;
12:38 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected ")" expecting term
12:38 masak so, three bugs
12:39 coral ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns Str { (0|1) }; my @a; push @a, decision for 1..10; @a
12:39 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "d" expecting block construct, term, ":", term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input reserved word
12:40 coral ?eval sub decision (Int $length) returns Str { (0|1) }; my @a; push @a, &decision() for 1..10; @a
12:40 evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&decision"
12:40 masak ?eval my @a; push @a, ["." xx 3] for 1..3; @a[any(0..2)][any(0..2)]
12:40 evalbot6 Error: cannot cast from VJunc any(VInt 0,VInt 1,VInt 2) to Double (VNum)
12:40 coral ?eval sub decision () returns Str { (0|1) }; my @a; push @a, &decision() for 1..10; @a
12:40 evalbot6 [(0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1)]
12:40 coral half the battle
12:40 masak ?eval my @a; push @a, ["." xx 3] for 1..3; @a[any(0..2)]
12:40 coral ?eval sub decision () returns Str { (0|1) _ ".0" }; my @a; push @a, &decision() for 1..10; @a
12:40 evalbot6 Error: cannot cast from VJunc any(VInt 0,VInt 1,VInt 2) to Double (VNum)
12:40 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "_" expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or "}"
12:40 * QtPlatypus humms.
12:41 masak ?eval my @a = ('a', 'b', 'c'); @a[any(0..2)]
12:41 evalbot6 Error: cannot cast from VJunc any(VInt 0,VInt 1,VInt 2) to Double (VNum)
12:41 QtPlatypus ?evam my $junc = (0,1); $junc |= $junc for (0..4);
12:41 QtPlatypus ?eval my $junc = (0,1); $junc |= $junc for (0..4);
12:41 evalbot6 undef
12:42 QtPlatypus ?eval my $junc = (0|1); $junc |= $junc for (0..4);
12:42 masak hm. "my @a = ('a', 'b', 'c'); @a[any(0..2)]" i think that's my minimal test case
12:42 evalbot6 undef
12:42 coral ?eval 0+(0|1)
12:42 evalbot6 0
12:42 coral ?eval 0+(0|1)
12:42 evalbot6 0
12:42 QtPlatypus ?eval my $junc = (0|1); $junc |= (0|1) for (0..4);
12:42 evalbot6 undef
12:42 coral ?eval sub decision () returns Str { (0|1) }; my @a; push @a, 0+&decision() for 1..10; @a
12:42 evalbot6 [(0), (0), (0), (0), (0), (0), (0), (0), (0), (0)]
12:42 masak ?eval 'a'|'b'|'c'
12:42 QtPlatypus ?eval my $junc = (0|1); $junc |= (0|1);$junc
12:42 evalbot6 'a'
12:42 evalbot6 \(0 | 1)
12:42 masak huh?
12:42 osfa has joined #perl6
12:43 masak oh, that's coral's bug again :)
12:43 QtPlatypus ?eval my $junc = (0|1); $junc |= (0|1) for (0..5);$junc
12:43 evalbot6 \(0 | 1)
12:43 coral ?eval sub decision () returns Str { ('early'|'later'|'later2'|'later3') }; my @a; push @a, 0+&decision() for 1..10; @a
12:43 evalbot6 [(0), (0), (0), (0), (0), (0), (0), (0), (0), (0)]
12:43 coral ?eval sub decision () returns Str { ('early'|'later'|'later2'|'later3') }; my @a; push @a, &decision() for 1..10; @a
12:43 evalbot6 [('early' | 'later' | 'later2' | 'later3'), ('early' | 'later' | 'later2' | 'later3'), ('early' | 'later' | 'later2' | 'later3'), ('early' | 'later' | 'later2' | 'later3'), ('early' | 'later' | 'later2' | 'later3'), ('early' | 'later' | 'later2' | 'later3'), ('early' | 'later' | 'later2' | 'later3'), ('early' | 'later' | 'later2' | 'later3'), ('early' | 'later' | 'later2' | 'later3'), ('early' | 'later' | 'later2' | 'later3')]
12:43 masak ?eval 0|1|2
12:43 evalbot6 0
12:43 masak hmm, maybe not a bug, by the way
12:43 coral ?eval map { (0|1) } 1..10
12:43 evalbot6 ((0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1), (0 | 1))
12:43 coral isn't there a verb for collapsing a junction?
12:44 masak "collapsing" :)
12:44 QtPlatypus coral: What do you mean by collapsing?
12:44 coral ?eval my $a = (0|1); say $a;
12:44 evalbot6 any(VInt 0,VInt 1) bool::true
12:44 coral oh, gee
12:44 coral heh
12:45 coral is there any method for picking one state from the junction?
12:45 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("leafChat IRC client: http://www.leafdigital.com/Software/leafChat/")
12:45 QtPlatypus Test it against a predicate.
12:46 coral ?eval my $a = (0|1); $a == 1;
12:46 evalbot6 bool::false
12:46 coral ?eval my $a = (0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7); $a > 0;
12:46 evalbot6 bool::false
12:46 coral reading more
12:47 QtPlatypus ?eval my $a = any (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7); $a >0;
12:47 evalbot6 bool::false
12:47 QtPlatypus ?eval my $a = all (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7); $a >0;
12:47 evalbot6 bool::false
12:47 QtPlatypus ?eval any (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) >0;
12:47 evalbot6 bool::true
12:47 QtPlatypus ?eval my $a = all (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7); $a >=0;
12:47 evalbot6 bool::true
12:48 coral ?eval map { any(0,1) > 0 } 1..10;
12:48 evalbot6 ((bool::false | bool::true), (bool::false | bool::true), (bool::false | bool::true), (bool::false | bool::true), (bool::false | bool::true), (bool::false | bool::true), (bool::false | bool::true), (bool::false | bool::true), (bool::false | bool::true), (bool::false | bool::true))
12:48 coral d'oh
12:48 QtPlatypus Damn, it looks like the junctions loose there juntive nature when there assigned.
12:48 QtPlatypus ?eval any (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7);
12:48 evalbot6 0
12:48 QtPlatypus Or for some other reson.
12:49 masak they're completely un-juncted
12:49 coral ?eval ^(0|1)
12:49 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "^" expecting program
12:50 masak ?eval all(0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7)
12:50 evalbot6 0
12:50 coral ?eval one((0|1))
12:50 evalbot6 0
12:50 coral ?eval one((0|1))
12:50 evalbot6 0
12:50 coral ?eval one((1|0))
12:50 evalbot6 0
12:50 QtPlatypus ?eval all(1,2,3,4)
12:50 evalbot6 1
12:50 masak it just picks the first one all the time
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12:51 coral i see synopsis 9
12:51 coral but no exe or apoc :(
12:51 coral synopsis 9 hints at one()
12:51 coral ?eval one(1,5,6,56,6,6,5,54,4,4,0)
12:51 evalbot6 4
12:51 QtPlatypus !!!
12:52 masak huh?
12:52 coral ?eval map { one(0,1) == 0 } 1..3
12:52 evalbot6 ((bool::false ^ bool::true), (bool::false ^ bool::true), (bool::false ^ bool::true))
12:52 coral haha
12:53 masak ?eval 1^2^3^0
12:53 evalbot6 0
12:53 coral ?eval (1^2^3^4^5^6^7)
12:53 evalbot6 1
12:53 QtPlatypus 6> 0
12:53 coral ?eval (7^1^2^3^4^5^6)
12:53 evalbot6 1
12:53 coral righto
12:54 * coral walks over to an alcove and turns into a dusty hunk of armor
12:54 masak junctions are weird
12:54 QtPlatypus I think the junctions are broken at the moment.
12:54 coral ?eval say one(0,1)
12:54 evalbot6 one(VInt 0,VInt 1) bool::true
12:54 masak where does the bool::true come from?
12:54 QtPlatypus ?eval say all(1,2,3,4)
12:54 evalbot6 all(VInt 1,VInt 2,VInt 3,VInt 4) bool::true
12:55 QtPlatypus From say
12:55 masak ah
12:55 masak ?eval all(1,2,3,4)
12:55 evalbot6 1
12:55 masak ?eval say one(1,2,3)
12:55 evalbot6 one(VInt 1,VInt 2,VInt 3) bool::true
12:56 masak ?eval @a=(0,1,2); say @a[any(0,1,2)]
12:56 evalbot6 Error: Undeclared variable: "@a"
12:56 masak oops
12:56 masak ?eval my @a=(0,1,2); say @a[any(0,1,2)]
12:56 evalbot6 Error: cannot cast from VJunc any(VInt 0,VInt 1,VInt 2) to Double (VNum)
12:56 masak that's my test!
12:57 masak it should stringify to "any(0,1,2)" :)
12:57 * masak writes test
12:58 QtPlatypus I don't think its a stringification issue
12:59 coral perl5 Quantum::Entanglement discusses the 'Observational operators'.
12:59 coral "Whenever you perform an operation on an entangled variable which should increase your level of knowledge about the value of the variable you will cause it to collapse into a single state or set of states."
12:59 coral i'm looking for a way to trigger that 'collapse' in perl6 junctions
13:01 masak ?eval my $j = (1 | 2 | 3); ref($j)
13:01 evalbot6 ::Junction
13:01 masak that's good
13:28 masak seen svnbot
13:28 jabbot masak: I havn't seen svnbot, masak
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13:28 svnbot6 r5639, masak++ | Committed test for @a[any(0..2)] bug
13:28 masak jabbot, sorry. i meant svnbot6
13:28 jabbot masak: Apologies are not necessary.
13:28 masak great
13:29 Shachaf has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:29 masak nevertheless
13:29 masak just for kicks:
13:29 masak jabbot, have you seen svnbot6 ?
13:29 jabbot masak: You're not really talking about me -- are you?
13:30 masak jabbot, no
13:30 jabbot masak: Why not?
13:30 masak lol
13:30 masak seen svnbot6
13:30 jabbot masak: svnbot6 was seen 1 minutes 56 seconds ago
13:30 masak jabbot, now was that so hard?
13:30 jabbot masak: I'm not sure I understand you fully.
13:30 masak i see
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14:02 nothingmuch damnit
14:02 nothingmuch i reinsalled the OS, and safari STILL crashes on the jsan website
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14:32 masak nothingmuch: maybe safari is at fault, not the OS
14:35 nothingmuch masak: installing the OS == installing everything, including safari
14:38 jhorwitz has joined #perl6
14:40 masak what i mean is that it might not help to reinstall your OS, if there really is a bug in safari
14:41 nothingmuch masak: others can't reproduce it
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14:43 stevan_ nothingmuch: what is broken about jsan?
14:44 nothingmuch stevan_: safari loads 2-3 pieces of the site
14:44 nothingmuch then i'm guessing JS kicks in
14:45 nothingmuch and it does a pizzaball freeze
14:45 stevan_ ah
14:45 nothingmuch yup
14:45 nothingmuch if I disable js it doesn't crash
14:45 nothingmuch *sigh*
14:45 stevan_ it works fine for me (safari but not Tiger)
14:45 stevan_ use firefox maybe?
14:45 nothingmuch it  works fine for cwest too
14:45 nothingmuch firefox is not responsive
14:45 nothingmuch clicks are delayed by like 2 seconds
14:45 nothingmuch i hate it
14:46 stevan_ nothingmuch: maybe you computer is broken?
14:46 nothingmuch stevan_: no clue
14:46 stevan_ I think maybe you need a bigger screen
14:46 nothingmuch yeah, that might be it
14:47 nothingmuch any 22" inch laptops ?
14:47 stevan_ 30" would be better
14:47 stevan_ however, then you would need to upgrade your lap
14:47 nothingmuch it'll need to fold on 3 axes
14:48 stevan_ nothingmuch: if you find yourself bored, can you please look over the MetaClass::Dispatcher code
14:48 stevan_ perl5/Perl6-MetaModel/lib/Pe​rl6/MetaClass/Dispatcher.pm
14:49 stevan_ and if you are really bored implement a post-order traversal
14:49 nothingmuch hold on, need to reinsall svk
14:50 stevan_ *sigh* it's always something :P
14:50 * stevan_ is using irssi for the first time, it is actually kinda nice
14:54 nothingmuch very nice
14:54 nothingmuch get the growl script
14:54 nothingmuch and get a billion other scripts from the irssi scripts repo
14:54 * nothingmuch types ümlauts
14:55 nothingmuch and עבריתץ
14:55 nothingmuch almost works for hebrew
14:55 stevan_ almost
14:55 stevan_ it is running on feather right now, cause I am on my wife's computer :)
14:56 dudley nothingmuch: Just to not be helpful at all, jsan worksforme on tiger.
14:58 stevan_ nothingmuch: maybe you should reinstall the last few system update
14:58 stevan_ s
14:58 nothingmuch stevan_: that's what I'm doing right now
14:58 stevan_ then whatever it was you broke will be fixed :)
14:58 stevan_ nothingmuch: :)
14:58 nothingmuch stevan_: get it through darwinports for OSX if you like it
14:59 stevan_ what? irssi?
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15:03 stevan_ autrijus: would you mind posting a list of the papers you are currently reading (and finding interesting) somewhere? the wiki perhaps?
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15:08 nothingmuch yes, irssi
15:08 stevan_ oh, nothingmuch I think masak was wondering about your "gay camels in denial" comment
15:09 stevan_ I dont think many people know how gay lambda is
15:09 masak nothingmuch: yes, backlogging to find what i was wondering
15:10 masak ah, here it is:
15:10 masak 'i was going to ask nothingmuch about the phrase "gay camels in denial" in one of his recent emails'
15:10 masak ' i parsed it as he must have intended, but did a double take on it afterwards'
15:10 nothingmuch i had a little link in that email
15:10 nothingmuch pointing to lambda.org
15:10 masak yes, yes
15:10 masak ' thing is, what are the camels in denial about?  '
15:11 masak ' being camels, or being gay?'
15:11 nothingmuch camels is the other part
15:11 nothingmuch and the in denial refers to people like Juerd and myself, who keep beating dead horses which are dead for the wrong reasons
15:11 masak so the camels are in denial about being lambda, correct?
15:12 stevan_ no, they are in denial about their effectiveness in the perl6 design process
15:12 masak about whose effectiveness?
15:12 masak the lambdas?
15:12 stevan_ nothingmuch wants everything to be MMD and Juerd wants ./method
15:13 stevan_ and everyone thinks they are gay for wanting it
15:13 masak that's a rather strange use of "gay"
15:13 stevan_ masak: I am only kidding :)
15:13 masak good :)
15:13 stevan_ nothingmuch is a lesbian though
15:14 masak yes, but that surely has nothing to do with wanting everything to be MMD
15:14 stevan_ thats what you think ;)
15:14 masak lol
15:15 stevan_ masak: it all depends on what MMD really means
15:15 stevan_ right nothingmuch ?
15:15 nothingmuch =)
15:15 nothingmuch bah! network issues
15:16 nothingmuch if MMD is homogenic, then.... ;-)
15:16 * masak will never be able to hear "MMD" without blushing from now on
15:20 stevan_ masak: its a good thing it doesn't come up regularly in polite converstation then
15:21 masak stevan_: true. unless you're at a perl conference
15:21 stevan_ masak: yes, but I said "polite" converstaion :)
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15:22 masak stevan_: :)
15:24 stevan_ ok, time to go hang out with the kids, bye all
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15:53 clkao t/builtins/arrays/shift.....​.......................pugs: *** Can't locate Test.pm in @*INC (@*INC contains: /Users/clkao/work/pugs/blib6/lib /System/Library/Perl6/darwin-thread-multi-2level /System/Library/Perl6 /Library/Perl6/darwin-thread-multi-2level /Library/Perl6 .).
15:53 clkao why do i still get this?
15:56 clkao killing all stupid pm_to_blib files does the trick
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16:25 nothingmuch stevan: ping
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16:42 stevan nothingmuch: pong
16:43 stevan what can I do for you my friend
16:51 nothingmuch sorry, confusion
16:51 * nothingmuch is being driven up the wall by unidentifiable reasons
16:51 nothingmuch anywho, i don't know what you meant by post order traversa
16:51 nothingmuch l
16:52 nothingmuch try the last class in the ISA tree?
16:52 nothingmuch or superclasses first?
16:52 stevan instead of traversing down the tree
16:52 stevan you go back up
16:52 nothingmuch and I also don't see how it makes sense =)
16:52 stevan you process the children first
16:52 stevan then the parents
16:52 stevan in pre-order, you process the parents first, then the children
16:52 stevan thats what I have right now
16:53 stevan but AS12 specifies that the dispatcher should handle many diff types of traversal
16:53 stevan pre and post being two of them
16:53 stevan breadth first being another
16:53 stevan least derived first, most derived first
16:53 stevan etc
16:53 stevan just a sanity check on the current code would be nice too ;)
16:54 nothingmuch pre order is not parent first
16:54 stevan sorry
16:54 stevan parent is wrong in that context
16:55 nothingmuch it's left to right
16:55 nothingmuch and post is right to left
16:55 nothingmuch and neither makes sense for class hierarchies
16:55 stevan process the current class first, then all it's super classes
16:55 nothingmuch i think we want transparently recursive lookups:
16:55 nothingmuch sub can {
16:56 stevan that would be least derived
16:56 nothingmuch    gather { for @superclasses { take if .can($meth) } }
16:56 nothingmuch }
16:56 stevan you forgot about the current class
16:56 nothingmuch err, something along those lines, only not so wrong
16:56 nothingmuch right
16:56 nothingmuch you start with the current class, if it can't, you go to the parents, and try them one by one
16:56 nothingmuch and this process is recursive
16:56 stevan well, maybe pre/post-order is not the correct terms in this context
16:57 nothingmuch you don't need to make it recursive, since lookup on the parent just works ajnyway
16:57 stevan nothingmuch: thats what I have in Dispatcher
16:57 stevan the dispatcher is basically a stack of stateful closures
16:57 stevan so it can be resumed easily
16:58 stevan cause next METHOD needs to be able to do that
16:59 stevan but it only does least-derived order
17:00 stevan (normal OO dispatch order)
17:00 stevan I need to figure out how to do most-derived order as well
17:00 stevan think of it this way
17:00 stevan most-derived is how BUILD runs
17:00 stevan and least-derived is how DESTORY runs
17:01 stevan http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/Perl6-Bible-0.19/lib/​Perl6/Bible/A12.pod#WALKCLASS_and_WALKMETH_Caching
17:01 stevan doh
17:01 stevan that is backwards
17:01 stevan DESTORY is most-derived, BUILD is least-derived
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17:19 pdcawley DESTORY? *nice* typo.
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18:08 svnbot6 r5640, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel -
18:08 svnbot6 r5640, Stevan++ | * MetaClass->class_precedence_list now uses the dispatcher (it should use WALKCLASS really)
18:08 svnbot6 r5640, Stevan++ |     - added some tests for this as well
18:08 svnbot6 r5640, Stevan++ |     - fixed the metaclass tests which this work broke (now it is right, before it was wrong)
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19:43 stevan hmm, dare I say it... but Python 2.3's method resolution order is very nice (http://python.org/2.3/mro.html)
19:43 stevan of course they stole it from Dylan
19:43 stevan and now we will steal it from them
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19:43 stevan muhahhahahaha
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20:45 Aankhen`` G'night.
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20:57 stevan dudley: if you want you can use http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/ but it is read only (unless you have an account there)
21:21 masak autrijus complains in his blog about the lyf being so short
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21:22 masak i wish i had half of his paper grokking speed, though, that would make the craft less longe to lerne
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21:37 rafl Hm. pugs was rejected by the Debian FTP masters. We need to wait for ghc6 to be built against libgmp3c2 until pugs can go into the archive.
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