Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-07-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:54 yrlnry I need some advice regarding Quantum::Superpositions.  I have a list of items, and I want to use Q::S to find an item X such that f(X) and g(X) are both true.  $x = any(...);  $z = eigenstates(f($x) && g($x)); is not at all what I want.  How do I set this up?
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03:33 mugwump is the opposite of a premature optimisation called a premature abstraction?
03:42 mugwump ?evalbot sub f { 8 > $^x > 6 } sub g { $^x & 1 }  my $x = any(1..9); sub find(Scalar $x) { if(f($x) && g($x)) { return $x } }; find($x)
03:42 mugwump ?eval sub f { 8 > $^x > 6 } sub g { $^x & 1 }  my $x = any(1..9); sub find(Scalar $x) { if(f($x) && g($x)) { return $x } }; find($x)
03:42 evalbot6 Error: Undeclared variable: "$^x"
03:43 mugwump ò_ó
03:51 mugwump this works for me in pugs 6.2.7, ho hum
03:52 mugwump see also examples/sendmoremoney.p6
03:53 mugwump ok, that worked once
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04:29 Khisanth oh
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04:29 Khisanth mugwump: you didn't get the news?
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05:44 mugwump Khisanth: news?
05:45 mugwump Did someone change the semantics of junctions and autothreading on me?  :)
05:45 Khisanth no I mean the $^x
05:45 mugwump oh
05:45 mugwump gone?
05:47 Khisanth "Implicit variables like $^a now only work in bare blocks"
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06:12 nothingmuch morning
06:23 * brentdax waves.
06:24 * nothingmuch waves back
06:25 * QtPlatypus waves
06:27 * nothingmuch waves again
06:27 nothingmuch but this is the last time, my elbow hurts
06:28 Khisanth perhaps you should try particulating :)
06:29 * nothingmuch thinks of multi-events, and multimethod event handlers
06:30 nothingmuch method get_wave ($waver when { $waver == $QtPlatipus | $brentdax }) { ./reply }
06:30 nothingmuch method get_wave (Any $waver) { }
06:30 nothingmuch err, s/when/where/;
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07:43 dudley Is there a p6 equivalent to Haskell's 'import qualified'?
07:44 dudley e.g. 'use Foo::Bar::Baz as Baz'
07:45 Aankhen`` Not as such
07:45 Aankhen`` .
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07:57 brentdax Glad to see you were amused, Aankhen.
07:59 Aankhen`` Very. =)
07:59 nothingmuch no strict as moose;
08:00 nothingmuch i think there was talk about it
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08:02 nothingmuch http://groups-beta.google.com/group/pe​rl.perl6.language/search?group=perl.pe​rl6.language&amp;q=%22use+*+as%22&amp;​qt_g=1&amp;searchnow=Search+this+group <--- maybe this helps?
08:13 dudley hmm, not quite. How can I accomplish the same thing? Refer to a fully qualified class name as a shorter name, I mean. I know I can do 'my $Baz := $Foo::Bar::Baz', but I don't like the sigils in my class names.
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08:18 brentdax dudley: There's been lots of talk about supporting C< ::Baz ::= (use Foo::Bar); >, but I somewhat doubt Pugs supports it yet.
08:25 dudley If I declare a class as 'our class Baz{}' within package Foo::Bar, then I can call that Baz within the package and Foo::Bar::Baz from outside the package, right?
08:30 brentdax Yeah, but once again I think Pugs doesn't support that yet.
08:32 dudley Just wanted to make sure it'll work someday :-)
08:34 dudley sleep &
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10:13 brentdax How much support does Pugs have for YAML?
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11:03 luqui poke
11:04 luqui anybody who knows haskell
11:12 brentdax I'm afraid I'm firmly on the camel side of the camp.
11:19 mugwump I saw an HS-plugin yaml bit, don't know how far it got
11:20 luqui hmm?
11:21 luqui that sentence parsed, but my semantic analyzer segfaulted
11:24 wolverian it was re: 13:13   brentdax : How much support does Pugs have for YAML?
11:24 wolverian (probably :)
11:24 luqui ah
11:28 luqui how do you check if a sub is defined?
11:28 luqui in either pugs or perl 6 (preferrably already implemented)
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12:01 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo { 1 }; defined &foo
12:01 evalbot6 bool::true
12:01 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo { 0 }; defined &foo
12:01 evalbot6 bool::true
12:01 Aankhen`` ?eval defined &foo
12:01 evalbot6 Error: Undeclared variable: "&foo"
12:01 Aankhen`` luqui: There you go.
12:04 luqui oh my
12:04 luqui that was, um, obvious
12:04 luqui I was using exists()
12:04 luqui thanks
12:04 wolverian can I check for specific signatures like that too?
12:04 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo { 0 }; exists &foo
12:04 evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&exists"
12:04 luqui oh wait
12:04 luqui that's no good
12:04 wolverian ?eval sub foo () { 1 } defined &foo:()
12:04 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected ":" expecting word character, "::", term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
12:05 luqui I need it to return bool:false when it's not defined, not die
12:05 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo (Str $bar) { 0 }; defined &foo:<Str>
12:05 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected ":" expecting word character, "::", term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
12:05 wolverian I _think_ larry has been using :() lately, but I'm not sure
12:05 Aankhen`` wolverian: I think you can't yet grab a particular variant.
12:05 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo (Str $bar) { 0 }; defined &foo:(Str)
12:05 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected ":" expecting word character, "::", term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
12:05 wolverian Aankhen``, right. thanks :)
12:05 luqui ?eval defined &main::foo
12:05 evalbot6 bool::true
12:05 Aankhen`` luqui: Wrap it in a try { ... }?
12:05 luqui whoops
12:05 luqui hmm
12:05 Aankhen`` Or that.
12:06 Aankhen`` Hrm, one sec.
12:06 wolverian ?eval sub foo { 0 } if try { &foo } { "ok" }
12:06 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "i" expecting ";", statements or end of input reserved word
12:06 wolverian ?eval sub foo { 0 }; if try { &foo } { "ok" }
12:06 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "i" expecting ";", statements or end of input reserved word
12:06 Aankhen`` ?eval defined %::($?PACKAGE)::<&foo>
12:06 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "<" expecting "(", "!", "/", "^", "*", "?", ".", ":" or word character
12:06 luqui I'm writing this from Haskell... so I think these are a little... heaviweight
12:06 luqui I'm trying to use findSub
12:07 luqui but it returns an Eval
12:07 luqui and I'm not sure how to get that back into a boolean that haskell can look at
12:07 luqui if that's even possible
12:08 Aankhen`` I'm sorry, I dunno about the Haskell side.
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12:55 svnbot6 r5786, luqui++ |  r1956@jabberwock:  fibonaci | 2005-07-24 06:43:57 +0000
12:55 svnbot6 r5786, luqui++ |  Added an import test that is bugging the hell out of me.  The test doesn't seem to be gracefully detecting failure; somehow "use" supercedes "eval"'s guards.
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13:25 svnbot6 r5787, Stevan++ | Perl6.MetaModel - (JS version)
13:25 svnbot6 r5787, Stevan++ | * added support for next_METHOD
13:25 svnbot6 r5787, Stevan++ |     - added test file for this
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14:00 Aankhen`` ?eval coro foo { yield "first"; yield "second"; }; (foo(), foo())
14:00 evalbot6 ('first', 'second')
14:00 Aankhen`` ?eval coro foo { yield "first"; yield "second"; }; (foo(), foo(), foo())
14:00 evalbot6 ('first', 'second', 'first')
14:00 Aankhen`` ?eval coro foo { yield "first"; return "hi"; yield "second"; }; (foo(), foo(), foo())
14:00 evalbot6 ('first', 'hi', 'hi')
14:02 QtPlatypus Cool we have coroteans
14:02 Aankhen`` Actually, we've had coroutines for quite a while, IIRC.
14:02 * QtPlatypus nods
14:02 Aankhen`` I was just wondering what happens when you put a `return` in there.
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14:03 Excalibor greetings
14:03 Aankhen`` Hiya.
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15:01 svnbot6 r5788, iblech++ | Usual svn properties.
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16:22 svnbot6 r5789, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel - (P6 version)
16:22 svnbot6 r5789, Stevan++ | * moving SELF, CLASS, next_METHOD, WALKMETH, WALKCLASS to the global namespace (*::)
16:22 svnbot6 r5789, Stevan++ |     - altered tests and files to accomidate this
16:22 svnbot6 r5789, Stevan++ | NOTE: This is step 1 in breaking the circularity issues with the metamodel
16:35 osfameron has joined #perl6
16:41 gaal luqui, ping
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16:42 gaal findSub returns Eval (Maybe VCode)
16:42 justatheory has joined #perl6
16:44 gaal you can say maybeM (findSub "foo" Nothing [])
16:44 gaal see findVar
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16:46 luqui what does maybeM do?
16:47 gaal do you know "maybe" without the M?
16:47 luqui not in lowercase
16:47 gaal say you have x :: Maybe String
16:47 luqui mmkay
16:48 gaal you want an expresion that is the string (w/o the Just) if it's Just String
16:48 gaal or some default value that you specify if it's Nothing
16:48 luqui right
16:49 gaal demote a Maybe to a simple value, with whatever fallback makes sense in your local code.
16:49 luqui how is the fallback specified?
16:49 gaal so MaybeM does the same thing with an m (Maybe foo) isntead
16:50 gaal as one of the args
16:50 gaal maybe :: a -> (b -> a) -> Maybe b -> a
16:50 gaal maybe n f Nothing  = n
16:50 gaal maybe n f (Just x) = f x
16:51 luqui gotcha
16:51 luqui okay, I'll give it a shot
16:51 luqui maybeM just works with any monad whatever?
16:52 gaal it's defined in Pugs.Internals. around 264
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16:52 gaal and it's lifted higher than Maybe
16:52 gaal loftier than what I grok really
16:52 luqui there's that word again
16:52 luqui "lift"
16:53 gaal oh that
16:53 gaal it has to do with the law of
16:53 nothingmuch lift == be naughty
16:53 gaal what do you call it
16:53 nothingmuch use a nested monad in the transformed monad
16:53 gaal the same law that makes sea level level
16:53 nothingmuch e.g. ReaderT IO
16:54 nothingmuch liftIO inside a ReaderT IO is ok
16:54 gaal interconnected vessels or something
16:54 luqui uh
16:54 * luqui smiles and nods
16:54 nothingmuch but plain old IO is not the same type as ReaderT IO
16:54 gaal you lift the monad thingy
16:54 gaal your head drops to the floor
16:54 nothingmuch but the monad already has your brain
16:55 nothingmuch it sucks out your eyeballs, and moves to the next victim
16:55 gaal yeah, that's shiftT
16:55 gaal when you had enough, you resetT
16:55 nothingmuch luqui: you know the properties of >>= as far as typing goes?
16:55 luqui I think so
16:56 nothingmuch do { foo; foo; foo } -- all foo's are of the same type
16:56 luqui well, "know", not "grok"
16:56 nothingmuch normally
16:56 nothingmuch well, if you are in ReaderT IO
16:57 nothingmuch for example.
16:57 nothingmuch or any other transformed monad
16:57 nothingmuch in order to safely use the type of the nested monad (IO) with a ReaderT IO type, you just wrap the call with liftIO
16:59 luqui oh my
16:59 nothingmuch dinner
16:59 luqui good thing I'm working on this
16:59 luqui &import calling conventions are very broken
16:59 nothingmuch luqui: see chapter 5 or so of harrorth
17:02 gaal btw, luqui: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~ndm/hoogle/
17:02 gaal the *very neat* thing is that you can search by type signature too, not just function name.
17:03 luqui thanks
17:04 gaal try it: say (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] in the search box and you'll get map (and some other things as well)
17:04 Khisanth doesn't lambdabot do that too?
17:04 gaal "@hoogle" does
17:05 Khisanth heh
17:06 gaal brb
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17:43 luqui gaal: poke
17:45 stevan hey luqui, hows things?
17:46 luqui things are okay
17:47 luqui yet again trying to wrap my brain around haskell
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17:47 stevan luqui: I can see :)
17:47 luqui and just think, it's all yak shaving anyway
17:48 luqui the reason I've spent four hours staring at six lines in Parser.hs
17:48 luqui is because it dies if there is no "import" when you pass arguments to "use"
17:48 luqui I could have gotten around it just by, well, not passing arguments to "use"
17:48 svnbot6 r5790, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel - (P6 version)
17:48 svnbot6 r5790, Stevan++ | * added Perl6::Instance to represent instances of object
17:48 svnbot6 r5790, Stevan++ | * removed all circularity (at least I think I did)
17:48 svnbot6 r5790, Stevan++ | * Perl6::Object is now completely defined in the metamodel
17:49 luqui I see you've just been going on the metamodel since yapc
17:49 stevan luqui: yup, have a Perl6, Javascript and Java version going
17:49 luqui Javascript... that's awesome
17:49 stevan it's starting to get there I think (assuming Larry doesn't change things again)
17:49 luqui We can use Perl 6 to script flash :-)
17:50 stevan yup
17:50 stevan have you see iblech's PIL -> JS compiler?
17:50 luqui nein
17:50 stevan ah
17:50 stevan look in perl5/PILJS (i think that is the folder name)
17:50 luqui does it have a frontend?
17:51 luqui yes
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17:54 luqui sweet
17:54 svnbot6 r5791, iblech++ | PIL2JS:
17:54 svnbot6 r5791, iblech++ |   * Fixed .ref on String, Number, and Boolean objects.
17:54 svnbot6 r5791, iblech++ |   * $foo[...] dies now if $foo isn't an array. Same for $foo{...}.
17:54 svnbot6 r5791, iblech++ |   * Yesterday's bug, say ~@array.delete(...), is fixed now.
17:55 luqui what's a js interpreter for linux?
17:55 nothingmuch mozilla spidermonkey supposedly
17:55 nothingmuch maybe it's not mozzilla only
17:56 nothingmuch e.g, has a standalone thingy
17:56 nothingmuch but you won't have any dom
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17:56 Khisanth maybe someone will write one for parrot :)
17:56 geoffb `apt-cache show libsmjs1`, if you are on a Debian-derived linux
17:56 geoffb Khisanth, that has been discussed here and there, I think
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17:58 geoffb `apt-cache search javascript | grep -i javascript` is fairly impressive
17:58 geoffb (to me, at least)
17:58 * luqui adores gentoo
17:58 luqui emerge spidermonkey
17:58 stevan Khisanth: IIRC, cwest was working on one in Perl 5 (to eventually get converted/compiled to Parrot)
17:58 geoffb luqui, OOC, is there an `apt-cache search`-equivalent for gentoo?
17:58 stevan luqui: you can always use a browser too
17:58 iblech geoffb: esearch
17:59 geoffb iblech, ah
17:59 geoffb Wheee, chapter 9, About Monads . . .
17:59 Khisanth there is also equery
17:59 * geoffb finally getting back to reading Haskell tutorials after a couple days off
18:00 nothingmuch YAHT?
18:00 geoffb _A Gentle Introduction to Haskell_
18:00 nothingmuch ah
18:00 * nothingmuch hasn't tried that one yet
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18:00 geoffb Appears to be written as a companion to the standard reference material
18:01 geoffb (Sorta like the red book is a companion to the blue book in the OpenGL world, I guess)
18:01 stevan iblech: I think the JS metamodel is probably evolved enough to begin intergration
18:01 geoffb Yayyy
18:02 iblech stevan: Great! :)
18:02 stevan iblech: the big issues I can see are integrating the base container types (Array, Hash, etc)
18:02 luqui wow... umm... pil2js is good enough to run Test.pm
18:02 luqui I'm thoroughly impressed
18:02 geoffb stevan, earlier you said you had P6, Java, and JS versions working -- what about the P5 version?
18:02 iblech luqui: And many actually tests pass :)
18:02 stevan geoffb: sorry, not p6, it's p5
18:02 geoffb iblech++ # giving autrijus a run for his money in implementation speed
18:03 * stevan has a cold, and is pretty spacey from the meds right now :)
18:03 nothingmuch meds--
18:03 nothingmuch sleep++
18:03 geoffb stevan, yucko, hate that myself
18:03 nothingmuch water++
18:03 stevan yes, water++
18:03 * luqui has to sleep now, but will be back in <=12 hours to work on the pil2p5 compiler
18:03 stevan luqui: putter started one of those too
18:03 geoffb luqui, yay! again
18:04 luqui I'll look at putter's
18:04 geoffb stevan, is there anything left of the P6 MM?  Or did it have to be completely scrapped?
18:04 luqui I intend to write it in perl 6, if he hasn't
18:05 luqui anyway
18:05 luqui hasta luego
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18:05 stevan luqui: yes, his is in p5
18:05 stevan geoffb: that is mugwumps work currently
18:05 stevan but is more a sketch, nothing works
18:06 nothingmuch stevan: huh?
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18:13 stevan iblech: are there JS level container types
18:14 stevan iblech: I see, PIL2JS.Hash
18:15 brentdax Anyone want to fix my pet peeve about Pugs's error messages, and make the "no compatible sub found" error print out the argument types you passed in?
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18:46 geoffb OK, well *that* was brain-melting
18:46 geoffb time for a break
18:51 gaal meow
19:03 geoffb *yawn*  OK, time for ch 10
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19:10 * Aankhen`` goes to sleep.
19:10 Aankhen`` G'night.
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19:24 iblech Hm... svn.openfoundry.org down, can't checkin PIL2JS patches...
19:24 iblech Anyway, need to sleep now :)
19:24 iblech Good night all :)
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20:12 brentdax Hmm...I have a hashref with some named parameters for a function.  If I splat it, it seems to flatten the pairs, too.  What to do, what to do...
20:12 brentdax Hmm...I have a hashref with some named parameters for a function.  If I splat it, it seems to flatten the pairs, too.  What to do, what to do...
20:12 brentdax (d'oh.)
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21:08 dudley Can anybody point me towards an explanation of  :()  ?
21:08 Khisanth a smiley? :)
21:10 dudley :(
21:14 dudley Does it mean anything? Or am I just making stuff up now?
21:14 * dudley grows ever more confused
21:16 Khisanth are you seeing it being used somewhere?
21:17 dudley No, I thought I remembered people talking about it a while back, but I might be hallucinating.
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21:20 Khisanth dudley: perhaps you mean ::()?
21:22 dudley Possibly, but they were separate things in my brain.
21:23 Khisanth hmm both ::() and :() appears in the log
21:24 Khisanth dudley: I guess you can asl wolverian :)
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21:29 brentdax I think :() allows you to create a siglet, like :(Str, Int, Array), while ::() is the symbolic dereferencer.  Could be wrong about the former, though.
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21:50 dudley Aha! it is a siglet!
21:50 dudley http://groups-beta.google.com/group/perl.​perl6.language/browse_thread/thread/a2646​90496f82a28?tvc=2&amp;q=siglet&amp;hl=en
21:50 dudley brentdax++
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21:53 coral (darren duncan)++ # "I will
21:53 coral (darren duncan)++ # "assume that =:= is the definitive answer until the official docs
21:53 coral decide to unambiguously say otherwise. "
21:53 * coral has no idea how that worked out from a single paste keystroke
21:55 Khisanth you pasted a newline char :)
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22:02 coral it filled in the karma from the previous line, though
22:02 coral like autointent through irssi somehow
22:02 coral (er, indent)
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22:53 * geoffb pops back out of the left branch (haskell) and heads for the right branch (forth) of his postorder harrorth traversal
22:57 geoffb Anyone have a recommendation of which forth interpreter to learn with?  Or are the various options fairly close to equivalent?
22:58 geoffb A short apt search shows pfe, kforth, gforth, pforth, and yforth . . . .
23:00 mugwump OpenBOOT?
23:00 cm has quit IRC ()
23:00 coral searching for an answer i found a tangent
23:00 geoffb heh, I think my wife would actually like to be able to use her Mac at the same time I'm learning forth . . .
23:00 coral http://angg.twu.net/forth.html # Tcl<->PForth
23:01 geoffb OK, yforth seems to knock itself out (the package description says "For general Forth programming or learning under Linux, yForth? is not the best choice.")
23:02 f0rked has joined #perl6
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23:02 geoffb ?eval ([|] <pfe kforth gforth pforth yforth>).pick
23:02 evalbot6 Error: Cannot reduce() using a unary or nullary function.
23:03 geoffb ?eval <pfe kforth gforth pforth yforth>.pick
23:03 evalbot6 'pforth'
23:03 coral http://www.softsynth.com/pforth/pf_tut.htm # pforth tutorial
23:03 coral heh
23:03 coral nice
23:03 geoffb and there you go
23:03 coral that felt a lot like hitting a small jackpot
23:03 geoffb heh
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