Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-07-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 ajs_home has joined #perl6
00:07 bline has joined #perl6
00:11 mugwump ?eval all((1...).map:{$_*2 - 1})
00:11 mugwump muhahaha!
00:11 evalbot6 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
00:14 * acme hugs evalbot6
00:18 Forth has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:24 geoffb & # time for dinner, methinks
00:31 f0rked has joined #perl6
00:58 f0rked has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:06 locksy has quit IRC (Network is unreachable)
01:09 f0rked has joined #perl6
01:15 castaway_ has joined #perl6
01:22 meppl has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:28 vcv- has joined #perl6
01:32 castaway has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:35 meppl has joined #perl6
01:54 wilx has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds)
01:54 vcv- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:59 meppl has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:03 brentdax has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
02:23 wilx has joined #perl6
02:35 webfiend has joined #perl6
02:35 svnbot6 r5792, fglock++ | * implemented iterator() in Span/Recurrence/Set-Infinite, added a few tests
02:56 tewk_ has joined #perl6
02:59 locksy has joined #perl6
03:04 coral ?eval <1...>.pick
03:04 evalbot6 Error: pick not defined: VStr "1..."
03:04 coral ?eval <1..100>.pick
03:04 evalbot6 Error: pick not defined: VStr "1..100"
03:15 SamB has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:22 geoffb ?eval 1..100.pick
03:22 evalbot6 Error: pick not defined: VInt 100
03:22 geoffb ?eval (1..100).pick
03:22 evalbot6 20
03:22 geoffb ?eval (1..100).pick
03:22 evalbot6 17
03:22 geoffb Man, I am just loving forth . . . .
03:23 geoffb at least, as much as I've gotten to in the tutorials so far
03:23 geoffb Reminds me of my old assembly language days
03:35 vcv- has joined #perl6
03:35 svnbot6 r5793, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel - (p5 version) fixing up a few little things
03:38 geoffb stevan, don't remember if I asked you this already, but:
03:39 geoffb Have you gotten to the point in the MMs that remaining significant changes will be due to @larry doing stuff to the language?
03:40 SamB has joined #perl6
03:43 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
03:46 ingy seen autrijus
03:46 jabbot ingy: autrijus was seen 2 days 8 hours 4 minutes 34 seconds ago
03:52 stevan geoffb: no, there is still some stuff to do, namely roles attributes
03:52 stevan geoffb: currently roles only support methods
03:53 geoffb k
03:54 geoffb thx for the update, stevan
03:55 stevan geoffb: I am sure there are other missing peices too, I have to re-read AES12 again
03:56 geoffb fair enough
03:56 geoffb clearly forth is making sense to me, since I am finding bugs in the sample code in the tutorials . . . :-)
03:56 stevan but the basic structure is there :)
03:57 geoffb stevan++ # many days of hard work
03:58 stevan geoffb: thanks :)
03:58 svnbot6 r5794, Stevan++ | Perl6::Code -
03:58 svnbot6 r5794, Stevan++ | * named subs work (recursive too)
03:58 svnbot6 r5794, Stevan++ | * named multi-subs work (also recursive)
03:58 svnbot6 r5794, Stevan++ |     - NOTE: these are using very primative MMD based on the number of args
04:26 justatheory has joined #perl6
04:26 vcv- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:36 pupilzeng has joined #perl6
05:08 geoffb wheee, jforth tutorial chapters down, starting on pforth tutorials
05:11 geoffb Well, that was quick -- the pforth tutorial appears to be a subset of the jforth tutorial . . .
05:12 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:13 coral heh
05:17 ingy hi stevan
05:17 Khisanth mm assembly
05:20 geoffb Khisanth, oh yeah
05:23 Maddingue has joined #perl6
05:31 justatheory has quit IRC ()
05:32 geoffb wee, fun sidetrack into color forth; on to Forth Meta Compilation
05:33 geoffb .oO( I will traverse the forth branch and pop back to harrorth soon, I swear ... er, to myself, I guess )
05:42 Maddingue__ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:45 scook0 has joined #perl6
05:47 Daniel_Nee has joined #perl6
05:57 joepurl has quit IRC ("Lost terminal")
05:58 vcv- has joined #perl6
05:58 joepurl has joined #perl6
06:13 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
06:19 Daniel_Nee Dear Autrijus: I'm waiting for you at S-Team's office, thanks.
06:20 geoffb seen autrijus
06:20 jabbot geoffb: autrijus was seen 2 days 10 hours 39 minutes 8 seconds ago
06:32 saorge has quit IRC ("Leaving")
06:32 svnbot6 r5795, masak++ | Minor spelling fix in ext/Set-Infinite/ChangeLog
06:56 Daniel_Nee Dear Autrijus: We are supposed to work on the nanshan RDS project in Monday afternoon and I'm waiting for you at S-Team's office now, thanks a lot.
06:56 vcv- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
06:57 dada has joined #perl6
07:01 masak has joined #perl6
07:03 szabgab hi nothingmuch
07:04 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
07:05 geoffb haskell tutorials down, forth tutorials down, chapter 2 of harrorth down, and now . . .
07:05 * geoffb is going down for a nice long sleep.
07:06 geoffb & # sweet, sweet slumber
07:11 Daniel_Nee has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.2/20050317]")
07:13 sili has quit IRC ("Lost terminal")
07:15 webfiend has quit IRC ("Leaving")
07:16 Darren_Duncan has joined #perl6
07:16 larsen has joined #perl6
07:39 Darren_Duncan seen autrijus
07:39 jabbot Darren_Duncan: autrijus was seen 2 days 11 hours 58 minutes 2 seconds ago
07:39 osfameron has joined #perl6
07:40 Darren_Duncan I noticed he hadn't updated his journal in 5 days ... perhaps nothing interesting going on?
07:40 Darren_Duncan anyway, good night
07:43 Darren_Duncan has left
08:00 jdv79 has joined #perl6
08:07 bloves has joined #perl6
08:10 joepurl_ has joined #perl6
08:10 joepurl has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
08:32 vcv- has joined #perl6
08:37 bloves has left
09:10 jdv79 has quit IRC ("Leaving")
09:10 vcv- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:12 elmex has joined #perl6
09:38 elmex_ has joined #perl6
09:47 hugues23 has joined #perl6
09:56 elmex has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:19 gander has joined #perl6
10:30 dada ?eval [>>+<<] (1,2,3);
10:30 evalbot6 Error: Hyper OP only works on lists
10:30 dada ?eval >[+]< (1,2,3);
10:30 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected ">" expecting program
10:31 dada ?eval >>[+]<< (1,2,3);
10:31 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected ">" expecting program
10:31 * dada doesn't recall the syntax for the reduce meta-op
10:34 dada ?eval [>+<] (1,2,3);
10:34 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "[" expecting program
10:34 dada ?eval [+] (1,2,3);
10:34 evalbot6 6
10:34 dada oh, that was simple
10:35 dada ?eval [+] (1,2,3,4,5);
10:35 evalbot6 15
10:36 vcv- has joined #perl6
10:38 osfameron_ has joined #perl6
10:38 dada ?eval [,] (1,2,3);
10:38 evalbot6 (1, 2, 3)
10:38 dada ?eval [,] (1,2,3,4,5);
10:38 evalbot6 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
10:39 dada ?eval reduce( { $^1 + $^2 }, (1,2,3));
10:39 evalbot6 6
10:39 dada ?eval reduce( { $^1 , $^2 }, (1,2,3));
10:39 evalbot6 ([\1, \2], \3)
10:40 dada ?eval reduce( { ($^1 , $^2) }, (1,2,3));
10:40 evalbot6 ([\1, \2], \3)
10:43 osfa has joined #perl6
10:46 dada ?eval reduce { [,] ($^1+1, $^2+1) }, (1,2,3);
10:46 evalbot6 (3.0, 4)
10:47 osfameron has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
10:48 osfameron has joined #perl6
10:48 dada ?eval reduce { ($^1+1, $^2+1) }, (1,2,3);
10:48 evalbot6 (3.0, 4)
10:49 dada ?eval reduce { ($^1+1, $^2) }, (1,2,3);
10:49 evalbot6 (3.0, \3)
10:49 dada ?eval reduce { ($^1, $^2+1) }, (1,2,3);
10:49 evalbot6 ([\1, 3], 4)
10:49 dada ?eval map { $_+1 } (1,2,3);
10:49 evalbot6 (2, 3, 4)
10:53 dada ok, question for the functional warriors out there: is it possible to define "map" using "reduce"?
10:57 osfameron has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
11:02 osfameron_ has quit IRC (Read error: 111 (Connection refused))
11:04 osfa has quit IRC (Read error: 111 (Connection refused))
11:31 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
11:31 vcv- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:37 osfameron_ has joined #perl6
11:39 dudley has quit IRC ()
11:39 osfa has joined #perl6
11:47 osfameron_ has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
11:47 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
12:02 iblechbot has joined #perl6
12:13 Yaakov has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
12:13 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
12:17 Yaakov has joined #perl6
12:18 kolibrie has joined #perl6
12:26 meppl has joined #perl6
12:35 sbkhh is now known as Odin-
12:54 sapper has joined #perl6
12:54 svnbot6 r5796, iblech++ | * Usual svn properties.
12:54 svnbot6 r5796, iblech++ | * PIL2JS:
12:54 svnbot6 r5796, iblech++ |   * Fixed %hash.delete(...).
12:54 svnbot6 r5796, iblech++ |   * Fixed handling of arrays where some elems were .delete()d.
12:54 svnbot6 r5796, iblech++ |   * Added support for numification and stringification of hashes.
12:54 svnbot6 r5796, iblech++ |   * New builtins: &key, &value, &keys, &values, &kv, &pairs (but &pairs doesn't
12:54 svnbot6 r5796, iblech++ |     work yet correctly, will investigate).
12:54 svnbot6 r5796, iblech++ |   * Unbroke &postcircumfix:<{ }> for hashes.
12:54 svnbot6 r5796, iblech++ |   * @a["23"] works now (i.e., it means @a[23]).
12:55 scook0 has quit IRC ("Leaving")
12:56 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
13:00 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
13:00 svnbot6 r5797, philcrow++ | Added Newton.pm to algorithms examples to show off Currying and
13:00 svnbot6 r5797, philcrow++ | parameter defaults.
13:04 vcv- has joined #perl6
13:19 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:26 joepurl_ is now known as joepurl
13:36 dudley has joined #perl6
13:38 Enveigler has joined #perl6
13:41 Enveigler has left
13:44 jhorwitz has joined #perl6
13:47 viirya_ is now known as viirya
13:48 viirya has quit IRC ("leaving")
13:57 xern has quit IRC ("Lost terminal")
14:05 Limbic_Region http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=477815 # Perl6 MetaModel question
14:06 Limbic_Region seen stvn
14:06 jabbot Limbic_Region: I havn't seen stvn, Limbic_Region
14:06 Limbic_Region seen stevan
14:06 jabbot Limbic_Region: stevan was seen 10 hours 7 minutes 56 seconds ago
14:07 wilx has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:10 stevan hola Limbic_Region
14:11 svnbot6 r5798, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel (p5 verison)
14:11 svnbot6 r5798, Stevan++ | * added 'build' traits to attributes (has $answer = 42)
14:11 svnbot6 r5798, Stevan++ |     - added test file for this
14:11 svnbot6 r5798, Stevan++ | * added the CALLONE and CALLALL methods (desugared $obj.?meth(@args), $obj.+meth(@args) and $obj.*meth(@args))
14:11 svnbot6 r5798, Stevan++ |     - added tests for these
14:11 Limbic_Region speak of the devil
14:11 Limbic_Region stevan ping
14:12 stevan Limbic_Region: thanks for the heads up :)
14:17 wilx has joined #perl6
14:40 cdpruden has joined #perl6
14:40 vcv- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:43 justatheory has joined #perl6
14:47 GeJ has joined #perl6
15:07 saorge has joined #perl6
15:18 sili has joined #perl6
15:18 Odin- has quit IRC ("Zoink.")
15:23 Odin- has joined #perl6
15:39 GeJ has left "Client exiting"
15:47 hugues23 has quit IRC ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
16:17 vcv- has joined #perl6
16:38 masak what's the best way to help if you're eager for bugs (for which there are already failing tests) to be resolved? :)
16:38 vcv- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:54 Aankhen`` Learn Haskell and fix them.
16:54 Khisanth heh
16:54 Aankhen`` # which I have not yet tackled myself :-\
16:54 Aankhen`` Or perhaps bribe autrijus. =)
16:54 ingy stevan: are you going to oscon?
16:55 Limbic_Region August 1st is right around the corner :-(
16:55 Khisanth Aankhen``: s/bribe/sponsor/ :)
16:55 Khisanth kinda the same but not quite :)
16:56 ingy for that matter, does anyone know which lamdacamels are attending oscon?
16:56 Khisanth but learning Haskell would be good anyway
16:56 * masak is darn close to learning haskell just to fix his bugs
16:57 Khisanth DO IT! :)
16:57 Khisanth s/^/JUST /
16:57 * masak hides in a corner, studying haskell
16:58 * ingy just realizes that unordered lists are really ordered after all...
16:58 Khisanth significant whitespace doesn't seem so bad with Haskell mode in emacs
16:59 masak is there any way to run perl cgi without a server?
16:59 ezra_ has joined #perl6
16:59 QtPlatypus You can sort of do it from the command line.
17:00 masak QtPlatypus: sounds good. go on.
17:00 Khisanth also plenty of HTTPD modules :)
17:00 masak sounds not-so-good :)
17:01 wilx has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
17:01 Khisanth what are you trying to do?
17:02 masak i'm trying to set up a perlnomic sandbox
17:02 Khisanth you could run any CGI program from the command line, it's just that the output will be going to stdout
17:02 masak hm, maybe that's all i need
17:03 masak i can always redirect to file
17:03 stevan ingy: no I am not going to OSCON, YAPC was my only conference this year
17:03 elmex_ has quit IRC ("leaving")
17:03 elmex has joined #perl6
17:03 Khisanth of course if you are using cookies and other things, it's probably not the way to go
17:04 masak i don't think i am
17:04 wilx has joined #perl6
17:05 masak however, i am using url parameters sometimes
17:06 Amnesiac has joined #perl6
17:07 ezra_ has quit IRC ()
17:09 ezra_ has joined #perl6
17:09 masak hm... running from command line works
17:11 masak is there an easy way to send parameters into the cgi script from the command line?
17:11 masak (i realise that there may be more appropriate fora for such a question)
17:11 Khisanth that depends ... is it use CGI.pm?
17:11 masak yes
17:12 Khisanth you could supply it on the command line as well
17:12 masak really? how?
17:12 Khisanth ./foo foo=bar
17:12 Khisanth it used to tell you how when you ran it on the command line :/
17:13 masak Khisanth: it works! thanks! Khisanth++
17:13 pupilzeng has quit IRC ("See you!")
17:13 masak CGI.pm++
17:15 geoffb ingy, I will be going to OSCON.
17:15 geoffb masak, funny, I'm learning haskell precisely because I have the same issue (bugs that are, well, bugging me)
17:17 Khisanth masak: what bug are you trying to fix?
17:24 osfa has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:36 meppl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
17:46 stevan geoffb: interested in doing a Haskell port of the MetaModel?
17:47 stevan it would be an excellent learning tool :)
17:49 masak Khisanth, two right now
17:50 geoffb stevan, good point -- let me get through harrorth, then I can consider that.
17:50 geoffb :-)
17:50 stevan geoffb: ok
17:50 masak the first is a junction bug (t/junction/array_deref.t) which prevents me from tidying up examples/games/tic_tac_toe.p6
17:52 masak the second is a constructor initialized member shifting bug (t/pugsbugs/attribute_list.t) that puts wizard.p6 in its infinite loop
17:52 masak clearly, i'm into pugs because of the games :)
17:52 geoffb :-)
17:53 * geoffb is as well -- because he wants sdl_perl working well under pugs
17:55 masak geoffb: we both have the same itch (bugs), path (harrorth) and goal (fixing pugs)... i feel a bit less alone in the world :)
17:55 geoffb :-)
17:55 geoffb ditto
17:56 masak geoffb: haskell is some kind of logician's voodoo, isn't it?
17:57 masak i think i grok the easy parts
17:57 geoffb masak, I think so . . . I will say this -- it really seems to be grinding too hard on that axe
17:57 geoffb masak, ditto
17:57 masak pattern matching, currying, all that stuff
17:57 masak but i still tense up as soon as someone mentions monads
17:58 geoffb And . . . this just clarified in my mind now . . . I feel way too much of that C++ "you think you're just adding two things, but really you've just initiated several billion steps behind the scenes" issue
17:58 masak i don't know why, but passing the world around as a parameter scares the heck out of me
17:59 geoffb heh
18:00 masak maybe i should just try using monads in a meaningful, practical way
18:00 masak and see who masters whom :)
18:00 geoffb The part that scares me is knowing so much is being carried around, but never changed (only operated on) -- the GC must be hell
18:00 geoffb heh
18:01 masak yes, no wonder gc and functional programming go hand in hand
18:02 masak fp is both more logical than imperative programming, and further removed from common sense -- it's strange
18:03 geoffb :-)
18:03 masak i actually tried to fix a pugsbug a while back
18:03 masak it looked like an easy one
18:04 Odin- Strict logic is usually very far from common sense.
18:04 Odin- :>
18:04 masak but changing the source code only yielded typing errors from ghc
18:04 masak good thing there's svn revert
18:04 masak :)
18:04 * geoffb just translated a perl5 one-liner into forth
18:04 masak Odin-: seems so
18:04 geoffb I feel all code-studly now
18:05 masak geoffb++ # for speaking forth
18:05 Khisanth geoffb: how many line of forth?
18:05 geoffb forth++ # for just being fun
18:05 Odin- Which is why Perl sometimes irritates functional folks ... Perl has traditionally put the focus on common sense, ignoring the "real" logic... :p
18:05 geoffb Khisanth, the core is two words and three variables
18:06 Khisanth forth seems stranger than Haskell by several magnitudes :)
18:06 masak Odin-: which is why perl6 is such an interesting combination
18:06 geoffb I had several debugging words to help while I figured out why it was broken at first
18:07 geoffb Khisanth, depends on where you came from.  For me, it makes MUCH more sense than haskell
18:07 masak for me too
18:07 Odin- masak: Yeah, although I'd argue it remains closer to its tradition than functionality...
18:07 geoffb nothingmuch++ # harrorth forcing everyone to expand their horizons/mind
18:08 Odin- (Now, THAT was a nicely ambiguous sentence. :)
18:08 Khisanth haskell makes sense, just need to get the syntax down :)
18:08 masak Odin-: that's the beauty. perl6, akin to the borg, looks at fp and sucks up the good parts
18:09 masak Khisanth: then i look forward to the day when i get haskell syntax down :)
18:09 geoffb Without telling me that an array can't contain both a char and an int, dammit.
18:09 Khisanth geoffb: what language? :)
18:10 geoffb Khisanth, I meant -- P6 doesn't enforce the limitations (that I don't like) that haskell does
18:10 masak geoffb: haskell needs those limitations, for strictness
18:10 masak it's part of its game
18:10 Khisanth well most languages do :)
18:10 * geoffb is somewhat biased about type theory -- all I want it for is to get the compiler to do optimization for me.  The rest, I don't want.
18:11 Khisanth an array of tuples! :)
18:11 masak not many languages do as much typing as haskell
18:11 geoffb Khisanth, I tried that -- hugs complained that the tuples were not all the same type.  :-)
18:11 masak :)
18:12 masak same problem, one level down. neat
18:12 Khisanth geoffb: perhaps we are not thinking of the same thing :)
18:12 Khisanth I was thinking of what would be an array of structs/unions in C :)
18:13 geoffb Khisanth, that wouldn't be too surprising, given that I've been reading haskell for all of about half a week
18:13 Khisanth geoffb: I have been reading much less :)
18:13 Khisanth perhpas there is some limitation I didn't get to yet
18:14 Khisanth geoffb: however, one of the first few YAHT exercises dealt with that
18:15 geoffb Well, I thought about using tuples with a lot of entries, to act as a union, but tuples are fixed length (and all tuples within the list have to have the same length) -- which means that if you want to be able to store any type in the list, you start writing functions that take a list of tuples of length n and producing a list of tuples of length n + 1 -- and pretty soon you start hitting the wall that many library functions are d
18:15 geoffb efined only for short tuples
18:16 geoffb Ah, YAHT is the one HT on the list that I haven't read through -- I needed a break after the first three or four haskell tutorials.
18:16 Maddingue has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:17 vcv- has joined #perl6
18:17 geoffb & # life calls
18:19 dada has quit IRC ("zu spaet um makellos zu sein")
18:19 masak geoffb: say hello to life from me
18:19 Darren_Duncan has joined #perl6
18:27 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
18:28 knewt_ has quit IRC ("leaving")
18:35 cognominal has joined #perl6
18:35 meppl has joined #perl6
18:38 Maddingue has joined #perl6
18:59 _meppl_ has joined #perl6
18:59 vcv- has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:07 meppl has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:13 geoffb masak, heh
19:17 cognominal seen autrijus?
19:17 jabbot cognominal: autrijus was seen 2 days 23 hours 36 minutes 28 seconds ago
19:18 cognominal I became addicted to his journal...
19:23 _meppl_ has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:24 saorge has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:26 saorge has joined #perl6
19:51 brentdax has joined #perl6
19:56 brentdax Do Perl 6 regexen support escape sequences yet?  Because I tried to s{\t}{foo} and it applied the rule to 't's.
19:58 PerlJam brentdax: yes, but AFAIK, PGE only supports \d, \D, \w, \W, \s, \S, \n and \N
19:58 PerlJam you could easily hack it to support \t and \T though
19:59 brentdax What file would I need to edit for that?  Wouldn't mind getting away from my own software for an hour or two.
19:59 PerlJam brentdax: probably compilers/pge/PGE/P6Rule.pir
19:59 PerlJam one of the files in that dir anyway
19:59 brentdax In Parrot?
19:59 PerlJam aye
20:00 brentdax Alright.  Better update my Parrot first, then...
20:03 Amnesiac has quit IRC ("Leaving")
20:11 arcady_ has quit IRC ("Leaving")
20:21 brentdax Hmm...all the existing backslash sequences seem to map to character classes, rather than individual characters, and to have specialize opcodes.
20:22 Khisanth but \t you mean tab?
20:22 brentdax Yeah.
20:22 Khisanth wouldn't this be something to do in pugs not PGE?
20:22 brentdax ...maybe?  I dunno.
20:23 PerlJam Khisanth: he was doing a s///.  In pugs that's handled by either pcre (if you've used :P5) or PGE
20:23 PerlJam unless I'm totally mistaken (it's been a while since I've mucked with it)
20:24 Khisanth hmm is it really wrong to expect things to work like perl5? :)
20:25 brentdax Meh, I'll just put a tab in my editor.
20:25 Khisanth hooray for invisible code :)
20:25 brentdax Indeed.
20:26 * brentdax emits a cough that sounds suspiciously like the word "python".
20:26 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("tiuq\")
20:26 Khisanth PerlJam: so the Perl 6 compiler isn't suppose to know anything about rules?
20:28 PerlJam Khisanth: PGE's jog is to know all about rules.  When we've bootstrapped ourselves out of pugs+PGE land into a real perl6 compiler, it will know about rules.
20:28 PerlJam er ,s/jog/job/
20:29 PerlJam or if autrijus gets it in his head that he can do better than PGE and does.
20:29 jhorwitz has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
20:30 Khisanth well ... the reason I ask is because the left side of s/// has had pretty the same features as Perl's double quotes
20:30 Khisanth so that would mean PGE has to know about Perl's strings or perl6 has to know about the rules does it ?
20:31 PerlJam Currently the former by way of parrot ("perl's strings" are really "parrot's strings")
20:32 PerlJam again, if I'm not mistaken
20:32 PerlJam anyway, time for me to go preemptively rescue the wife from invading dinner guests
20:32 Khisanth oh wait ... I keep forgetting Parrot is suppose to be flexible to the point of being absurd :)
20:33 knewt_ has joined #perl6
20:33 knewt_ has quit IRC (Client Quit)
20:33 knewt_ has joined #perl6
20:38 vcv- has joined #perl6
20:50 cwest has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
20:56 Amnesiac has joined #perl6
20:57 dudley has quit IRC ()
20:59 stef_ has joined #perl6
21:02 cognominal has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:07 cdpruden has quit IRC ("Leaving")
21:09 cognominal has joined #perl6
21:11 putter has joined #perl6
21:11 kolibrie has quit IRC ("leaving")
21:11 putter ?eval {x => [3,4]}.perl
21:11 evalbot6 '{(\'4\' => undef), (\'x\' => 3)}'
21:12 putter sigh.
21:15 putter PerlJam: one of my background tasks is to write a rules engine on top of pcre.  the task is not inherently hard (given that not all of rules can be supported), but it's a maze of time eating stuff like the above.  might be working this evening, might not be working for months.  sigh.
21:17 masak putter: that's a weird evalbot6 result
21:24 Khisanth looks like a bug :)
21:25 Khisanth putter: you mean a rules to pcre translator?
21:25 putter :)
21:25 putter yes
21:26 Khisanth Perl6::Rules?
21:27 Khisanth although that isn't pcre :)
21:27 putter I wonder if we need a "state of pugsbugs" periodic summary.  The bug was forseeable from known pugsbugs, but it's been a while since I checked, and I had drifted into assuming the whole nested arrays and hashes mess had been straightened out.
21:29 cognominal has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:29 stef_ has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:29 putter yeah, I also have a mutant P6:R which is slowly being updated to reflect current syntax and semantics.  not very far along.  but perhaps it should be checked in at some point.
21:30 putter basically when one path has gotten too frustrating to pursue, i push on another.
21:30 Khisanth hmm a p6 compiler written in p5? :)
21:38 putter yes... have bits of that too... ;-)  upsides included clean api (working stringification and Filter::Simple), downsides include pain getting some regexps to work (and "work" is perl-version dependent), the non-reentrant re engine (so you end up almost as cripled as with pcre - the reason P6:R isnt being maintained(?)), and ... something else I don't recall at the moment.
21:40 * putter ponders finding someplace off MANIFEST to drop a load of non-working cruft into vcs... eh.
21:41 sapper has quit IRC ("This computer has gone to sleep")
21:41 sapper has joined #perl6
21:42 sapper has quit IRC (Client Quit)
21:42 putter oh, big upside is you don't lose hours because something... odd... is happening.  I'm quite tempted to do a ruby rules engine for the same reason.
21:43 osfameron has joined #perl6
21:46 cognominal has joined #perl6
21:49 * masak thinks a "state of pugsbugs" summary would be a good thing
21:49 svnbot6 r5799, putter++ | Extended t/pugsbugs/parsing_hash.t to indicate arrays nested in hash refs also misparse.
21:49 putter ahhh... t/pugsbugs/attribute_hash.t... that's why (something) wasn't working earler...
21:49 masak :)
21:49 masak g'nite, all &
21:50 putter &
21:50 masak has quit IRC ("Lämnar")
21:53 putter ?eval [{1=>2,3=>4}].elems
21:53 evalbot6 2
21:54 putter I really thought that had gotten fixed.  puzzling.
21:58 putter ah, the pugsbug/ test went away(?), but it's :todo<bug> in t/data_types/mixed_multi_dimensional.t.
21:58 * putter thinks again that :todo<bug> should be smoked as dark red rather than dark green.
22:01 coral is there a yellow?
22:01 gaal bonus (unexpected success)
22:01 gaal hi
22:01 putter I wonder if one could integrate t/ and the language spec/documentation, ie "literate programming", so the docs change color when something isnt working...
22:04 putter the color scheme seems targeted at "developers" (ie, a bug known is greenish, red and yellow indicate something unexpected is happening), rather than "users" (ie, three little dark green boxes don't exactly scream "don't uses nested hashes and arrays in your data structures!! or you'll be sorrrrryyyyy"). ;)
22:04 putter perhaps we need two color schemes?
22:04 putter hi, gaal
22:05 gaal putter, i like the colored spec idea :)
22:05 putter :)
22:05 gaal there already is some integration
22:05 gaal you know, they link to the specs
22:05 putter right.
22:05 osfameron has quit IRC ("Leaving")
22:06 gaal so the thing that mangles the specs can have some smarts implented in it to look for the text around where the actual link is
22:06 gaal but it'll often guess wrong
22:06 putter hmm, so rather than literate programming, one could postprocess the docs by looking groveling over the tests' links.
22:06 gaal which is done already
22:06 gaal look at nothingmuch's smokes, they include docs
22:07 * putter (really!) goes to look...
22:07 Khisanth hmm so with the appropriate CSS, different sections of the doc could have different colors dependings on status?
22:08 * Khisanth would hate to read a document in green though
22:08 putter gaal: could you suggest a test which has such docs?
22:08 gaal problems: the link specification mechanism must be lightweight otherwise people won't use it
22:09 putter Khisanth: :)
22:09 gaal undef.t has a few
22:09 gaal vgrep for L<
22:09 gaal in nm's smokes they show up as actual links
22:10 putter ah, yes, neat.
22:11 iblechbot has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
22:11 gaal as for the specific color scheme, yuval has voiced frustration over everybody having different opinions about this. (as, i guess, co-maintainer) i think welcome patches for alternate css. but i don't know how the actual css alternattion works, so please don't just set *a* different stylesheet.
22:11 gaal s/think/think we would/
22:13 gaal and s/set/send/
22:13 Khisanth hmm but one html document can have multiple CSS :)
22:13 gaal yes, if you rig it. please rig it. :)
22:13 Khisanth it's just a matter of using a browser that lets you set a default!
22:14 gaal wow it is so humid here
22:14 * gaal looks for the airco remote
22:14 putter actually, I wonder if we really just need some slightly more organized bug bashing.  months ago there was the concept of "trade a test for a patch".  but that was mostly autrijus, and as his focus shifted to the backend, and we all didn't pick up the slack,  that property was lost...
22:16 putter re colors, I've seen sites with a pulldown list selecting the site's css and thus appearance... I'm not sure how it's actually implemented...
22:18 gaal putter: that's indeed a problem, we're reaching the size most people don't know who can fix what or even if something's worth fixing instead of the bug being "refactored away" by a new component
22:18 wolverian <link href="default.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" title="Default" /> <link href="another.css" rel="alternate stylesheet" title="Another" type="text/css" />
22:19 wolverian not all browsers have a UI to change to an alternate stylesheet - some JS can help there.
22:19 gaal so it's still possible to 'claim' bugs but if i want to petition bug X be fixed i may not know who to moose about it.
22:19 gaal maybe we should just remind people to look for bugs to claim. :)
22:20 Khisanth how about just switch to "fix everything you can and have time for" :)
22:21 gaal that's kinda what i was thinking. :)
22:22 * gaal starts a smoke
22:22 putter wolverian: thanks!  googling turned up http://www.alistapart.com/articles/alternate/
22:22 gaal hmm, there weren't any commits in src/ in a while.
22:23 Khisanth but there is something to be said for a task seeming too daunting and nobody wanting to start :)
22:23 wolverian putter, ALA is nice.
22:23 gaal okay, it's 1:23, looks like time to shower and go to sleep.
22:24 putter re bugs,
22:25 putter there is also dynamics like... "a few sentences from autrijus on how to approach something can save hours of work".
22:25 gaal which are true :)
22:26 putter we haven't really (I think?) tried to find a social organization/dynamic that has nice properties...
22:27 gaal k, this is me. good night all :)
22:27 putter g'night &
22:27 gaal why, anarchy :)
22:27 putter yes, but part of anachy is folks doing entropy reduction tasks.  this area seems to be ready for one...
22:27 putter :)
22:28 gaal indeed.
22:28 gaal &
22:28 putter &
22:29 putter wolverian: re "ALA is nice", I hadn't seen it before.  adding it to my bloglist.  thanks :)
22:29 brentdax ALA is awesome.
22:36 dudley has joined #perl6
22:39 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
22:40 nothingmuch hola
22:40 nothingmuch shyte, how did that happen
22:41 * nothingmuch can't paste
22:42 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/paste.txt
22:42 nothingmuch i tried to reply to allison to see if i know what I'm talking about
22:42 nothingmuch can anyone verify?
22:48 putter re paste.txt, the couple I know without checking look right...
22:49 * putter wonders how much the planned PIL-related changes will change PIL...
22:49 meppl has joined #perl6
22:50 * nothingmuch wonders what data structure mutt keeps messages in
22:50 nothingmuch and if it really resorts the whole list when an update to the mailbox happens
22:50 putter ouch.
22:50 wolverian I've had to switch to muttng because mutt doesn't cache the headers at all
22:50 wolverian and it's just painfully slow to open a folder with 5000+ mails in it like that
22:51 wolverian but that might not actually have anything to do with your issue, now that I reread what you said. sorry. :)
22:52 nothingmuch wolverian: i do too
22:52 nothingmuch i keep it running inside screen
22:52 nothingmuch 30,000 messages
22:52 nothingmuch when I hit 700 i said to myself "i really have to sort all this"
22:52 wolverian hehe.
22:52 wolverian I sort my mailing lists.
22:52 wolverian (I mean, procmail does.)
22:52 nothingmuch then it hit 2000 or so and I was like "oh man, now I'll need a whole 2 hours to sort through all this", so i pushed the deadline a bit more
22:53 nothingmuch my problem is that if i let procmail sort them I don't get around to reading them
22:53 nothingmuch i mark threads as read usually
22:53 nothingmuch if it's a long deathless thread
22:53 nothingmuch or something about a technical issue I don't care about
22:53 nothingmuch i tried deleting threads for a while
22:53 nothingmuch but then I lose context
22:54 nothingmuch I'd like a feature where if i delete a thread, children of that thread are automatically deleted for me, until the thread has been dead for a week
22:54 nothingmuch and then it's completely purged
22:58 brentdax I'd really like a mail client with Gmail-ish labels.  Those things are really far too handy to live without now that I've used them.
22:58 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
23:00 brentdax I keep hoping somebody will write a Thunderbird extension for it.
23:03 putter nothingmuch: fyi, 40 min ago there was a discussion of adding alternate style sheet capability to smoke.  wolverian provided the basic code, and this http://www.alistapart.com/articles/alternate/ reference was found.
23:03 * nothingmuch wishes he had the time to finish what he started with consolidation
23:04 nothingmuch putter: were any decisive conclusions reached?
23:04 putter gaal solicited a patch to add multi-css capability.
23:04 nothingmuch was a patch made?
23:05 * nothingmuch reads backlogs instead of harassing putter
23:05 putter Not yet.  I started exploring, but it looks like I've never actually run smoke...
23:05 putter ;)
23:07 putter It looks like simply breaking out the css into a file and adding "one" line in it's place.  It wont change things for IE users (requires javascript hackery aswell), but that can be a rev 2.
23:08 nothingmuch oh shit
23:08 putter ?
23:08 nothingmuch i hate feature creep
23:08 nothingmuch they are called cascading for a reason
23:08 nothingmuch =(
23:09 nothingmuch this is probably much better handled by overridding on a case by case basis
23:10 putter I don't suggest cascading, but having the css in a separate file, and the files in svn, will allow some exploration of color choice.
23:10 wolverian I think the idea is to just allow users to choose between multiple styles, which this is ideally suited for.
23:10 nothingmuch well, overriding the css is as short as:
23:10 nothingmuch use base qw/Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix/;
23:10 nothingmuch sub css_file { "your path to file.css" };
23:10 nothingmuch blam
23:11 wolverian I define user as the person viewing the report, not the person that creates it
23:11 nothingmuch inline CSS really means "slurp the file and put it in <style> tags"
23:11 wolverian so I'd like a method to change the style inside the browser.
23:11 nothingmuch wolverian: what if we use existing browser features?
23:11 nothingmuch FF can swap css styles when it's provided with several alternatives...
23:12 wolverian that's exactly what I suggested.
23:12 nothingmuch i really don't want to introduce more and more features that have nothing to do with actual reporting
23:12 nothingmuch oh...
23:12 nothingmuch the link discussed javascript and stuff, so i was begining to be scared
23:12 wolverian I also pointed out some browsers can't do it without us providing a JS interface
23:12 putter This was all prompted my realizing I was screwed, having used array refs nested in a hash ref as a datastructure, when the three little dark green boxes in smoke were wispering ("it just doesnt work...").
23:12 nothingmuch okay, so what if we do something simpler:
23:13 nothingmuch we let you generate either an HTML snippet, or a full page
23:13 nothingmuch the full page is what we have now
23:13 nothingmuch and the snippet is just the unstyled table
23:13 nothingmuch and then we can easily create alternatives that don't have the kitchen sink reimplemented in perl 6 compiled to javascript, stored inline in the template ;-)
23:14 wolverian or just do the alternative stylesheet <link> method, and don't care about IE users
23:14 nothingmuch because 95% of the feedback i get for TTH is CSS suggestions, not contributions for code or documentation ;-)
23:14 putter as I developer, i like the current colors' emphasis on expected vs unexpected.  as a user (p6 coder), I want different colors, which scream at me in red when something is buggy, even if it's been known to be buggy for a really long time...
23:14 wolverian frankly, I think that's the most viable alternative.
23:14 putter when I view your smoke, the colors i need depend on why i'm there...
23:14 nothingmuch putter: as a pugs user that causes lots of confusion because lots of the pugs test suite fails =)
23:14 nothingmuch but I agree
23:15 nothingmuch that's why i want to write a smoke server
23:15 nothingmuch where people submit YAMLs
23:15 nothingmuch and users get to generate reports on the fly
23:18 putter re "95% of the feedback", having css in a separate file, which seems plausible idea by itself, would allow you to say "create an alterate .css file in mumble/.  That will solve your immediate need, and if the changes seem to be popular/I like them, I'll add them to the default.css".
23:18 nothingmuch putter: the CSS *is* a separate file
23:19 nothingmuch this is just not the default way the smoke report for 'make smoke' is generated
23:19 nothingmuch so that the user won't have to copy two files around
23:19 putter ah.
23:19 nothingmuch wow, my bugs submitted to Fire have been reviewed
23:20 nothingmuch submitted 2.5 years ago
23:20 nothingmuch i switched to adium because it had proper hebrew support
23:20 wolverian hmm. can you use a rel="alternate stylesheet" attribute on a <style> element? that way we could include everything in one file too
23:20 nothingmuch and now they to fix hebrew in fire =_
23:20 wolverian (admittedly it wastes bandwith..)
23:20 nothingmuch wolverian: not yet
23:20 wolverian nothingmuch, oh, okay.
23:20 nothingmuch patches welcome =
23:20 nothingmuch )
23:20 wolverian no, I mean, does it work in browsers?
23:20 nothingmuch it's 2:20 am and I'm still trying to push out a build
23:20 nothingmuch oh, I have no clue
23:21 wolverian apparently not.
23:21 wolverian ah well.
23:22 putter the ALA article (I think?) said something about naming style stuff to allow it to be turned on/off as a group.
23:23 nothingmuch  2:23am  up 47 days, 14:41,  27 users,  load average: 8.12, 6.74, 5.77
23:24 nothingmuch damnit
23:24 nothingmuch no wonder the compilation is not finished
23:24 * nothingmuch has seen load averages of 20 this week =(
23:24 putter where?
23:25 nothingmuch work
23:25 putter ah
23:25 nothingmuch we have 2 strong boxes of every kind
23:25 nothingmuch i need one of each for the weekly build
23:25 putter nifty
23:25 nothingmuch and we also have like 15 "strong enough" linux/windows boxes
23:26 nothingmuch but people still flock to the strong boxes
23:26 nothingmuch so while linux, aix, solaris and windows have nearly finished running the sanity test suite, hpux is not yet done compiling
23:26 * putter looks forward to linux having easy to use resource groups.
23:26 nothingmuch i think i will liberally apply BOFH skills
23:27 geoffb Nice everyone other than you who logs onto the strong boxes . . . assuming you have root access (or a friendly admin)
23:27 nothingmuch not that it'll help much, it's prolly out of ram
23:27 geoffb and there you go.
23:27 nothingmuch geoffb: yeah, I should have thought of that 3 hours ago
23:27 nothingmuch that's what I normally do
23:27 nothingmuch sometimes i even sigstop
23:27 geoffb heh
23:27 nothingmuch if the disk is really being beaten to death (we make a database engine)
23:28 geoffb which one?
23:28 geoffb (s/one/db engine/)
23:28 nothingmuch http://www.hyperroll.com
23:28 nothingmuch special purpose stuff
23:28 nothingmuch say you are a company that makes hygene products
23:29 nothingmuch you want to know how many hicks bought orange toilet paper in tokyo, split up into monthly and daily sums, over the last 10 years
23:29 nothingmuch this product is supposed to know how to do this stuff fast
23:30 putter later &
23:30 nothingmuch ciao
23:30 geoffb right, new "entry-level" packages at $35K license for once CPU.  That's special purpose pricing, all right.  :-)
23:30 putter has quit IRC ("Leaving")
23:31 rafl has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:31 gander has left "Leaving"
23:32 nothingmuch geoffb: =)
23:32 nothingmuch you know you're really evil if you have to use xargs to make your renicing easy
23:33 wolverian xargs++
23:34 nothingmuch wolverian, putter: some TTH patches i'd like to see:
23:35 jdv79 has joined #perl6
23:35 nothingmuch alternative styles for CSS supported in the non javascript way
23:35 nothingmuch making the todo reason another class for each cell
23:35 nothingmuch so that we can tell apart todo<bug> from something else
23:35 nothingmuch but only if the reason is !~ /\s/
23:35 nothingmuch or actually =~ /^\w+$/ for that matter
23:36 nothingmuch i can't get around to it in the next few days
23:36 nothingmuch but we'll be needing it for work eventually
23:36 nothingmuch or rather, i would like to make the work people use it
23:36 nothingmuch only a handful do
23:39 * geoffb finishes reading marketing blurbs on hyperroll website . . . interesting, looks like a SQL*net proxy with some internal smarts
23:39 geoffb .oO( I wonder if it just replaces moronic queries, as video drivers commonly recognize and replace moronic shaders )
23:39 nothingmuch geoffb: what's sql*net?
23:40 rafl has joined #perl6
23:40 geoffb Oracle's wire protocol, IIRC
23:40 nothingmuch oh
23:40 nothingmuch the way the product is usually used:
23:40 nothingmuch some company paid $$$ to oracle or ibm to store their data in oracle or db2
23:40 nothingmuch or occasionally mssql
23:40 nothingmuch then company wanted to do funny queries
23:40 nothingmuch so they paid $$$ to hyperion to use essbase
23:40 nothingmuch but then it was too slow
23:40 nothingmuch they bought our product
23:41 nothingmuch which basically takes data from oracle/db2 etc
23:41 nothingmuch and OLAPish meta data from essbase
23:41 nothingmuch and then does some precalculation
23:41 nothingmuch and then you can query
23:42 nothingmuch and i think it can also plug the results back into the db by hacking views and stuff
23:42 geoffb Who was it that said that almost all computer science problems come down to exercises in caching?
23:42 geoffb nodnod, makes sense
23:43 geoffb At least you guys are in the comfortable position of being able to tell your customers to do it the way you tell them, or they'll be sorry, knowing they just proved it to themselves with the last few stacks of cash they flushed . . . .
23:44 nothingmuch autrijus has a nice saying
23:44 nothingmuch "computers aren't important... the computer is just a level 2 cache between me and the internet"
23:44 geoffb :-)
23:45 nothingmuch i think i see what you mean
23:45 nothingmuch e.g. our staff configures stuff based on what client says they need
23:45 nothingmuch and that's it?
23:46 geoffb Having worked at SAP, and then a company that used SAP, I can tell you that customers commonly say "we don't want to do it the way the tool likes", and the tool vendor says "If you try to be contrarian, your user experience will suck."  And then the customer does it back asswards, and their user experience sucks . . . so they complain about it.
23:47 geoffb hyperroll knows that their customers already learned that lesson.
23:47 geoffb Fixing bad user experience being pretty much their reason for existing.  :-)
23:47 nothingmuch heh
23:47 nothingmuch i guess so
23:48 nothingmuch although it's not just bad user experiences
23:48 nothingmuch it's a niche product
23:48 nothingmuch the integration features exist for the bad user experience
23:48 nothingmuch which is most of our client base
23:48 nothingmuch but the real smarts of the product is in precalculation
23:49 geoffb nodnod
23:49 geoffb bleah, I am just not in the mood to study this stuff right now, but I need to.
23:49 geoffb bah, bah, BAH
23:50 nothingmuch need to? why?
23:50 geoffb Because I can't fix pugs until I grok this crap
23:50 geoffb sorry, getting cranky about monads
23:51 geoffb And with autrijus hors de combat (sp?), and bugfixing having hit a local minimum, it's up to us that have complaints
23:52 obra seen autrijus
23:52 jabbot obra: autrijus was seen 3 days 4 hours 10 minutes 51 seconds ago
23:52 obra wow
23:52 geoffb yeah, painful that
23:53 nothingmuch oh
23:53 nothingmuch geoffb: tried harrorth
23:53 sphex has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
23:53 nothingmuch ?
23:53 geoffb Yes, actually, I was just working through chapter 3 when I got sidetracked into Meet the Mondads
23:53 geoffb er Monads
23:54 nothingmuch it sidetracks on it's own
23:54 geoffb "Somebody's got a case of the Mondads!"
23:54 nothingmuch Reader and IO are dissected to death
23:54 nothingmuch maybe that can help
23:54 Southen_ has joined #perl6
23:55 nothingmuch i didn't know much about monads when I started writing the Reader chapter
23:55 nothingmuch but by the end I grokked them
23:55 geoffb Oh, trust me, I'll read it all.  I just don't particularly want to at the moment, but I'm trying to keep my eyes on the prize
23:55 geoffb nodnod
23:55 nothingmuch oh
23:55 nothingmuch i thought you were wanted to go on =)
23:55 geoffb (and thank you, btw, for creating harrorth -- it's helpful so far)
23:56 nothingmuch geoffb: next chapter is going to be lots of forth fun
23:56 nothingmuch but I barely have time for it
23:56 geoffb (and it's more fun to read than the tutorials it points to :-)
23:56 geoffb nodnod
23:56 geoffb mmmm, Forth.
23:56 geoffb get with it, you!  You need to stay in front of masak and I
23:57 nothingmuch with 2 stages of bootstrap i've gotten to a point where most of the system is written in forth
23:57 nothingmuch what we need is the stack and the heap (and inherently pop, push, @ and !)
23:57 geoffb schweet
23:57 nothingmuch and the bootstrap
23:57 nothingmuch and things like math, etc
23:57 geoffb :-)
23:57 nothingmuch and even the compilation loop can be written in forth on top of it
23:58 nothingmuch the boostrap itself is basically: take the prelude
23:58 nothingmuch completely unordered
23:58 nothingmuch make a dependency tree
23:58 nothingmuch and build the words using a non forth compiler
23:58 nothingmuch just enough for ':' and ';' to work
23:58 nothingmuch then just evaluate the rest of the prelude in an order that doesn't break
23:59 geoffb as long as it is orderable . . .
23:59 nothingmuch well, it is
23:59 nothingmuch the leafs of the dependency tree are the primitives
23:59 geoffb well, that's good
23:59 geoffb :-)
23:59 nothingmuch there has to be a special case somewhere
23:59 nothingmuch or the universe will explode

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo