Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-08-02

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:21 brentdax Okay, thanks.
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00:30 svnbot6 r5992 | iblech++ | PIL2JS: PIL, PIL::Subs, PIL::PPad: Fix recursive subcalls by backuping and
00:30 svnbot6 r5992 | iblech++ | restoring vars. I.e.
00:30 svnbot6 r5992 | iblech++ |   sub foo ($stop) {
00:30 svnbot6 r5992 | iblech++ |     my $x = 3;
00:30 svnbot6 r5992 | iblech++ |     if $stop { $x++ } else { foo 1; say $x }
00:30 svnbot6 r5992 | iblech++ |   }
00:30 svnbot6 r5992 | iblech++ | should print 3, not 4. Fixed.
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01:00 iblech New JS smoke up: http://m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/stuff/not_perm/pil2js-demo/t/smoke.html
01:00 iblech Night all :)
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01:01 mjl69 "Hello, World!".say();
01:01 mjl69 That's cool (pugs newbie)
01:02 mjl69 no need to study Ruby or Haskell anymore :-)
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01:59 ingy seen autrijus
01:59 jabbot ingy: autrijus was seen 4 hours 13 minutes 57 seconds ago
01:59 ingy anyone around?
02:00 ingy I have to give a talk on pugs in 40 hours and I don't know a thing about it!
02:00 ingy Who can help ingy?
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02:30 Darren_Duncan hi ... I'm currently at OSCON in room E142, "Conferences for Beginners" ... drop by and meet me in person if you're around
02:31 ingy Darren_Duncan: cool, I'm in the Doubletree, room 517
02:32 Darren_Duncan I'm staying Red Lion, 216
02:32 Darren_Duncan but I'm at the center right now
02:32 ingy ok, Let's meet later after I get back from dinner
02:32 ingy I need some help
02:32 Darren_Duncan among others in the room are Brian d Foy and Randal Schwartz, I think
02:33 ingy do you have a cell phone?
02:33 Darren_Duncan no, sorry
02:33 ingy ok, I'll call your room or check irc
02:33 Darren_Duncan its an interesting talk, though
02:33 ingy :)
02:33 Darren_Duncan try irc first ...
02:33 ingy ok
02:33 Darren_Duncan I try to stay on it
02:33 ingy :)
02:33 Darren_Duncan when I'm online, just to make it easy to coordinate meetings
02:37 Darren_Duncan you were just mentioned here ... a bit of Pugs stuff now
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03:01 ingy changes topic to: Ingy Needs You Help => http://apocalypse.kwiki.org | Pugs 6.2.8 released! | http://pugscode.org |http://pugs.kwiki.org | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | http://www.geeksunite.net
03:01 ingy changes topic to: Ingy Needs Your Help => http://apocalypse.kwiki.org | Pugs 6.2.8 released! | http://pugscode.org |http://pugs.kwiki.org | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | http://www.geeksunite.net
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03:10 stevan hola ingy
03:10 stevan isnt it a bit early to start writing the talk? ;)
03:14 Darren_Duncan I'm still in OSCON room E142, if any of you want to meet in person
03:15 Darren_Duncan stevan, are you at OSCON, or elsewhere?
03:15 svnbot6 r5993 | putter++ | Corrected test count.
03:15 stevan Darren_Duncan: elsewhere
03:15 stevan :(
03:16 stevan Darren_Duncan: you should fill out an interview for Ingy (http://apocalypse.kwiki.org/index.cgi?Interviews)
03:19 Darren_Duncan do I just edit the page with the template, or how do I add answers?
03:19 Darren_Duncan or, what's the best way?
03:20 stevan no idea, ask Ingy
03:20 stevan I think you should add your own page
03:20 stevan DarrenDuncanInterview
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03:28 svnbot6 r5994 | putter++ | slurpy_code_param.t: Corrected typo, plan count.
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03:35 Darren_Duncan stevan, I added a starter page there ... still have to answer questions
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03:47 svnbot6 r5995 | putter++ | t/unspecced/p5/array.t: Evaled two tests.  But test 1 is still failing under make test (but not when the test is run directly).
03:47 xinming how much percentage for Synopsis is completed? I mean the desicision won't be changed again for perl 6
03:50 Darren_Duncan stevan, I filled out that Ingy interview page
03:50 Darren_Duncan Ingy, ditto
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03:57 Darren_Duncan seen mugwump
03:57 jabbot Darren_Duncan: mugwump was seen 6 hours 30 minutes 1 seconds ago
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04:22 brentdax Do spaces in a character class count?
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04:36 Darren_Duncan ingy, I'm now back at my hotel
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04:37 Darren_Duncan mind you, its probably too late to do anything tomorrow, I'll try to stay online in here during the day tomorrow
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04:37 Darren_Duncan re tutorials, I'm at Damian's Best OO Practices, and the Postgres Intro
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05:54 autrijus ingy: pong
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06:05 Darren_Duncan hello autrijus
06:05 autrijus heya Darren_Duncan. having fun?
06:06 Darren_Duncan sure
06:06 Darren_Duncan I'm starting to use a public version control for Rosetta
06:07 coral ?eval my $a = any(1,2); my $b = any(4,8); ($a + $b).pick
06:07 evalbot6 5
06:07 coral okay then
06:07 * coral grins
06:08 coral ?eval 1.pick
06:08 evalbot6 Error: pick not defined: VInt 1
06:08 coral ?eval (1 + 2).pick
06:08 evalbot6 Error: pick not defined: VInt 3
06:08 autrijus ?eval [1].pick
06:08 evalbot6 1
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06:11 coral ?eval my $a = any(1,2); $a = $a + 0; $a.pick
06:11 evalbot6 1
06:11 coral hmm
06:11 coral it collapses as late as possible, literally at the human.
06:12 coral ?eval my $a; for (1..100) { $a += any(0,1); }; $a
06:12 evalbot6 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
06:12 * coral blinks
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06:12 coral ?eval my $a; for (1..10) { $a += any(0,1); }; $a
06:12 evalbot6 \((((((((((0 | 1) | (1 | 2)) | ((1 | 2) | (2 | 3))) |         (((1 | 2) | (2 | 3)) | ((2 | 3) | (3 | 4)))) |        ((((1 | 2) | (2 | 3)) | ((2 | 3) | (3 | 4))) |         (((2 | 3) | (3 | 4)) | ((3 | 4) | (4 | 5))))) |       (((((1 | 2) | (2 | 3)) | ((2 | 3) | (3 | 4))) |         (((2 | 3) | (3 | 4)) | ((3 | 4) | (4 | 5)))) |        ((((2 | 3) | (3 | 4)) | ((3 | 4) | (4 | 5))) |         (((3 | 4) | (4 | 5)) | ((4 | 5) | (5 | 6)))))) |      ((((((1
06:12 coral uh, my apologies
06:12 coral i forgot to .pick
06:13 coral ?eval my $a; for (1..10) { $a += any(0,1); }; $a.pick
06:13 evalbot6 1
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06:22 xinming what about do a 1..1000000 loop and $_.say ?
06:22 xinming s/do/doing/
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06:34 gaal autrijus, in ruleUsePackage (Parser:580 or so), is there a reason why the two chunks that reference "val" (val <- unsageEvalExp ... and case val of ...) aren't adjacent? does the "option ()" need to be in between them?
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06:35 gaal also, why is that import chunk guarded with an option () at all? It behaves incorrectly, but my Parsec-fu isn't strong enough to say what *should* be there instead.
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06:50 ingy hi autrijus
06:51 nothingmuch ingyping
06:51 ingy hi nothingmuch!
06:51 nothingmuch i fudged Test::Base a bit
06:51 nothingmuch did you find the unidiff?
06:51 ingy :)
06:51 Darren_Duncan hi ingy
06:51 ingy hi Darren_Duncan
06:51 Darren_Duncan how late you staying up?
06:51 Darren_Duncan I'm about to nap myself
06:51 ingy not much later I think
06:51 Darren_Duncan lets try to meet tomorrow
06:52 Darren_Duncan I'll be at the Postgresql and best oo practices ones
06:52 ingy nothingmuch: make an interview video!
06:52 nothingmuch interview video?
06:52 Darren_Duncan ingy, I was also the first to sign your interview page
06:52 ingy Darren_Duncan: ok, I'll look for you
06:52 Darren_Duncan stevan suggested it
06:52 ingy Darren_Duncan++
06:53 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 212.143.92.226 pasted "Test::Base unidiff against 0.43" (144 lines, 3.9K) at http://sial.org/pbot/12161
06:53 * gaal wants to see y'alls *modules*
06:54 brentdax What type is an undeclared invocant considered to be?
06:55 brentdax i.e. when I type `method foo($bar) { ... }`, what type is the invocant given?
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06:56 autrijus hi ingy
06:57 ingy nothingmuch: catch me another time to review these patches
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06:57 autrijus gaal: the option () is totally bogus
06:57 ingy I think I have a newer version of Test::Base
06:57 ingy I thought I released it
06:57 ingy hmm
06:58 nothingmuch_ ingy: 0.44
06:58 autrijus brentdax: the type is ::?CLASS.
06:58 nothingmuch_ the feature additions from simple to not that simple: add a plan if running run_compare for the user
06:58 nothingmuch_ (i got burned by lack of plan)
06:59 nothingmuch_ and give the filters a way to skip blocks
06:59 gaal autrijus, ok, what oughtta be there then? for p5 behaviour, "()" should suppress calling the hook
07:00 autrijus gaal: try parse for "verbatimParens whiteSpace" maybe
07:00 ingy autrijus: do an interview
07:00 autrijus optional (verbatimParens whiteSpace) ...
07:00 brentdax Hmm, okay.  I'm running into the same-method-name bug again, this time in a place where it's not quite as easy to work around.
07:00 autrijus ingy: ok. here? now?
07:00 nothingmuch_ ingy: wtf is an interview?
07:00 autrijus brentdax: minimal test case?
07:00 ingy see topic
07:01 autrijus oh, kwikinterview
07:01 autrijus more like a survey
07:01 nothingmuch_ ah
07:01 autrijus sure
07:01 ingy autrijus: please promote the kwiki
07:01 brentdax Can't derive one.  Something along the lines of `class A { method foo ($x) { say "A::foo $x" } } class B { has $.a; method foo ($x) { say "B::foo $x"; $.a=::A.new; $.a.foo($x) } }; B.new.foo('bar')` ought to do it, but there's a missing element.
07:01 ingy my irc server is being shut down :(
07:01 brentdax (The bug would present itself as B::foo being called with an invocant of type A.)
07:02 ingy I'll try to add some questions to the kwiki
07:03 ingy also if y'all could make 30 second videos, that would be cool
07:03 autrijus let me see
07:03 nothingmuch_ like with a webcam?
07:03 nothingmuch_ i don't have one of those
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07:03 nothingmuch_ i can make an audio clip
07:03 ingy ok cool
07:04 ingy post a picture of yourself too :)
07:04 ingy nothingmuch is cute.
07:04 nothingmuch_ =)
07:04 ingy it will help my talk ;)
07:04 nothingmuch_ it can be like the telephone interviews on the news =)
07:04 nothingmuch_ what will the video contain? answers to those questions?
07:04 ingy ok my server is rebooting now
07:04 * gaal doesn't even have a mike :(
07:04 ingy yeah
07:04 brentdax (Or rather, B::foo($b, 'bar') followed by B::foo($.a, 'bar').)
07:05 ingy answers to questions
07:05 gaal too bad, the throat infection is giving me a sexy voice
07:05 ingy has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
07:08 autrijus that is bad how?
07:08 gaal i can't send ingy a sample of the sexy voice, because i don't have a mike :)
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07:11 gaal "optional" doesn't fit here, i think: i want "use ()" to *not* do the hook, and "use" and "use + ruleExpression" to do it
07:12 autrijus yes
07:12 autrijus option (verbatimParens whiteSpace) ...
07:12 autrijus sorry
07:13 gaal hmm, that gives option (verbatimParens whiteSpace) $ return () for the no-hook
07:13 svnbot6 r5996 | autrijus++ | * Clean up box hierarchy; moving toward ADT; about to import metamodel.
07:13 gaal but how do i then do the yes-hook?
07:13 autrijus er no
07:14 autrijus option (verbatimParens whiteSpace) $ do
07:14 autrijus    exp <- ruleExpression
07:14 autrijus    ...yes hook...
07:14 autrijus hrm, never mind me
07:14 autrijus obviously it's
07:14 autrijus verbatimParens whiteSpace <|> do
07:14 autrijus    exp <- ruleExpression
07:14 autrijus    ...yes hook...
07:15 nothingmuch_ http://apocalypse.kwiki.org/index.cgi?NothingmuchInterview <-- done
07:15 nothingmuch_ brb, i'll do the audio thing
07:15 autrijus booting to win32 for webcam &
07:15 nothingmuch_ uh, i'll brb and then do the audio thing
07:16 gaal but if the stuff between parens is empty, we shouldn't do the yes hook; and also if there are no parens at all.
07:16 nothingmuch_ damnit ingy
07:16 nothingmuch_ either expand or don't expand html entities in kwiki
07:16 nothingmuch_ but not both at the same time
07:17 nothingmuch_ oh boy, i'm stupid
07:27 autrijus gaal: no, no-parens-at-all falls into yes-hook withdefault import
07:27 autrijus gaal: and the <|> bias on the left
07:28 autrijus so if it's empty paren it would've done nothing
07:28 gaal hmm.
07:31 gaal no, that doesn't work. for `use Foo ()`  it does, but anything else doesn't parse
07:31 gaal it does load the module, but the import hook then fails the parse:
07:32 gaal unexpected "Foo" expecting use version, word character, "::", "-", "(" or expression
07:35 gaal perlbot nopaste
07:35 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
07:35 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted ""no" patch that doesn't work" (80 lines, 3.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/12164
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07:43 autrijus gaal:
07:43 autrijus use tryChoice
07:43 autrijus tryChoice [verbatimParens whiteSpace, ...yes hook...]
07:43 autrijus or alternatively
07:44 autrijus try (verbatimParens whiteSpace) <|>  ...yes hook...
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07:48 stevan ingy: interview done,... no video though, I have see if my digital camera can do 30 second clips
07:49 Amnesiac has quit IRC ("Leaving")
07:49 * stevan is off to sleep &
07:49 nothingmuch_ ciao
07:49 nothingmuch_ isn't it like really early in the morning over there?
07:50 Aankh|Clone Sleep well.
07:53 * brentdax watches his leg bounce.
07:53 brentdax Bawls is...potent.
07:57 brentdax Yay, page creation works!  The rest is just release engineering.
07:57 brentdax (At least for 0.01.)
07:58 Aankh|Clone Fill in the blanks: ____ 0.01.
07:58 Aankh|Clone :-D
07:58 brentdax WWW::Kontent, my Summer of Code project written in Perl 6.
07:58 Aankh|Clone Ahh.
07:58 Aankh|Clone Kewlies.
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08:00 brentdax I should probably spend the rest of the night bringing the docs into line with reality.
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08:18 umbop morning
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08:29 autrijus I've done the video
08:29 autrijus it's in avi now; encoding
08:35 gaal autrijus: the two suggestions both work for Foo () and Foo (LIST), but not for Foo;
08:37 autrijus well, put the entire thing as optional then.
08:37 autrijus hm, no
08:37 autrijus wait
08:37 autrijus are you using
08:37 autrijus yespart <- ruleExpression; ?
08:37 autrijus try
08:37 autrijus yespart <- optional emptyExp ruleExpression;
08:37 autrijus etc.
08:38 gaal no, i'm not doing that (i think!)
08:38 gaal *inside* the yespart there's a imp <- ruleExpression
08:38 autrijus right, I mean the imp.
08:38 autrijus imp <- optional emptyExp ruleExpression
08:38 gaal but then what guards against empty () ?
08:39 autrijus the left bias <|>
08:39 autrijus that will match first
08:39 gaal there's something fundamental i don't grok about Parsec
08:39 autrijus I'm trying
08:39 gaal like, how it works. :/
08:39 autrijus (\(\)) | (yesPart)?
08:39 autrijus is how it would look as a regex
08:40 autrijus the "optional" part is the postfx ?
08:40 autrijus the <|> is |
08:40 gaal ah, this is getting warmer :)
08:40 autrijus you are basically trying
08:40 autrijus 1. match empty parens. if found, do nothing
08:40 autrijus 2. otherwise, match an expression. if not there, then default to emptyExp
08:40 autrijus 2.1. do something to that.
08:41 gaal is there a 7? :)
08:41 autrijus that's all :)
08:41 autrijus what cannot be spoken should be kept in silence
08:41 gaal okay, in try (verbatimParens whiteSpace) <|> yespart, does the 'try' apply only to verbatimParens whiteSpace, or do everything?
08:42 gaal you know, autrijus, i'm scared to ask you if you also know Hebrew
08:42 * autrijus is glad to find another tractatus head
08:42 gaal so i won't :)
08:42 autrijus the try only apply to the verbatimParens whiteSpace part.
08:43 gaal i like the Ogden translation better ("whereof one cannot speak, one must be silent")
08:43 gaal s/,/, thereof/
08:43 autrijus right. I was backtranslating from the chinese version in my mind :)
08:44 autrijus or rather, crosstranslating.
08:45 gaal optional is like maybe, right? optional defaultVal rule
08:46 gaal err, no that doesn't compile. :(
08:46 autrijus maybe "option defaultval rule"
08:46 autrijus optional is shorthand for "option (return ())"
08:46 autrijus I'm in win32, I don't feel like coding. I'll reboot soon
08:46 gaal i
08:46 gaal 'll keep nibbling.
08:55 gaal ?eval my $x = 9; mod(); sub mod() {my $x=1; $CALLER::<%MY::{<$x>}> = 10}; say $x
08:55 gaal this loops.
08:55 svnbot6 r5997 | gaal++ | * fix `use Foo` and `use Foo ()` to call and not to call &Foo::import,
08:55 svnbot6 r5997 | gaal++ |   respectively (thanks autrijus!)
08:55 svnbot6 r5997 | gaal++ | * add &no builtin
08:55 evalbot6 (no output)
08:56 gaal oh, i didn't need the braces.
08:56 gaal but this still loops:
08:56 gaal ?eval my $x = 9; mod(); sub mod() {my $x=1; $CALLER::<%MY::<$x>> = 10}; say $x
08:56 evalbot6 (no output)
08:57 gaal i'm trying to access the caller's lexical $x.
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09:04 autrijus yeah, I know that loops. :-/
09:05 autrijus rebooting
09:17 nothingmuch_ ingy: aborting audio interview
09:17 nothingmuch_ i can't get a decent sound
09:17 nothingmuch_ AC + cows being orked is too much bg noise
09:17 nothingmuch_ it just sounds like crap
09:18 nothingmuch_ and furthermore, i sound like crap
09:19 nothingmuch_ "As Luke Palmer said to me "I want to be a superposition.""
09:19 nothingmuch_ luqui++
09:19 nothingmuch_ http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/26027
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09:58 autrijus I can't get this avi encoded to mov
09:58 autrijus no matter how I try. :-/
09:58 autrijus unless I buy a certain sorenson squeeze, it seems
09:58 autrijus ffmpeg croaks on me :-/
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10:02 dada ?eval my $sum = 0; my $max = 10; for (1..$max) -> $x { $sum += $_; } $sum;
10:02 evalbot6 \55
10:03 dada why the \?
10:05 autrijus because the confusion between lvalues and containers.
10:05 autrijus ?eval my $a = 55; $a
10:05 evalbot6 \55
10:05 autrijus ?eval 55
10:05 evalbot6 55
10:05 autrijus conceptually the '$a' name points to a container that contains 55, not the value 55
10:06 autrijus this is cleared up a lot in the runcore :)
10:06 autrijus s/runcore/new runcore/
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10:23 jql \55 seems kinda constant. :/
10:24 * jql has perl5 on the brain
10:24 jql it is, I know, but damn
10:24 * jql changes the value of PI
10:26 dada ?eval my $a = 55; +$a;
10:26 evalbot6 55
10:26 dada heh
10:27 jql mmmkay
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10:35 dada ?eval my $x = 1; given($x) { when 1 { "one" } when 2 { "two"} default { "doh" } }
10:35 evalbot6 'one'
10:35 dada ?eval my $x = 1; given($x) { when 1 { "one" } when > 2 { "two"} default { "doh" } }
10:35 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "{" expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
10:36 dada ?eval my $x = 1; given($x) { when 1 { "one" } when $_ > 1 { "more than one"} default { "doh" } }
10:36 evalbot6 'one'
10:36 dada ?eval my $x = 2; given($x) { when 1 { "one" } when $_ > 1 { "more than one"} default { "doh" } }
10:36 evalbot6 'doh'
10:36 dada uhm
10:38 dada ?eval my $x = 2; given($x) { when 1 { "one" } when $_ > 1 { "more than one"} default { +$_ } }
10:38 evalbot6 2
10:39 dada ?eval my $x = 2; given($x) { when 1 { "one" } when($_ > 1) { "more than one"} default { +$_ } }
10:39 evalbot6 2
10:40 dada is my syntax wrong or is pugs wrong?
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12:52 autrijus anyone up for Pugs interviews for tomorrow's talk?
12:52 autrijus I've got my movie done. uploading
12:52 autrijus # http://apocalypse.kwiki.org/index.cgi?Interviews
12:52 clkao movie!
12:52 autrijus yes. what is oscon without movies?
13:00 Limbic_Region autrijus - your interview isn't filled out?
13:02 GeJ has quit IRC ("Client exiting")
13:03 autrijus Limbic_Region: no, just the movie for now
13:03 autrijus filling in interview now
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13:07 nothingmuch_ autrijus: movie++
13:07 autrijus all three formats are up
13:07 kolibrie I don't see where the movie is
13:08 autrijus kolibrie: see topic, click movies
13:08 kolibrie ahh
13:09 autrijus I don't know if the mp4 is well supported
13:09 autrijus I hope quicktime can play it
13:10 scook0 autrijus: I've been looking at the shiny new PIL runcore
13:10 scook0 trying to figure it all out
13:11 autrijus scook0: cool. it doesn't run anything yet
13:11 autrijus it's just the foundational types
13:11 scook0 yeah, I know
13:11 vcv has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:11 scook0 the lack of context makes it a little harder to understand :)
13:12 scook0 but I was just wondering:
13:12 Aankh|Clone has joined #perl6
13:12 scook0 what's the meaning of 'Cell' vs 'Box', in Perl6 terms?
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13:13 autrijus there are no corresponding terms, sadly.
13:13 autrijus a box is an (id, content) pair
13:13 scook0 ok, let me rephrase:
13:13 autrijus a cell is either a mutable or immutable box.
13:13 autrijus possibly tieable
13:14 scook0 (hmm, this question is hard to ask)
13:14 scook0 I shall have to think a bit more, until I understand exactly what it is I don't know
13:14 vkon I can't find movie... should I be logged in?
13:15 QtPlatypus Is there a way to find out what the keys are on a match object?
13:16 dada QtPlatypus: for $0.keys -> $k { ... }, I suppose
13:16 autrijus scook0: ok. food, bbiab
13:16 gaal vkon: reload interview page, click Movies
13:17 scook0 autrijus: I'm off to bed now, so I'll ask again another day, after some pondering...
13:17 autrijus scook0: ok. enjoy. I'll also throw in more code + comments
13:17 autrijus food &
13:18 scook0 has quit IRC ("Leaving")
13:18 vkon thanks... reloading helped ;)
13:20 * Limbic_Region got audio only on the movie but really laughed at pugs providing new and great ways to shoot yourself in the foot
13:21 kolibrie autrijus: no theora?  no time to find appropriate plug-ins for other formats (at $work)
13:29 dada ?eval sub good { pop(@_); }; good(1,2,3);
13:29 evalbot6 3
13:29 dada ?eval sub bad { shift(@_); }; bad(1,2,3);
13:29 evalbot6 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
13:29 dada mmm
13:30 wilx Yay! for the movie! :D
13:35 xinming ?eval sub bad ( *@_ is rw ) { shift(@_); }; bad(1,2,3)
13:35 evalbot6 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
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13:52 svnbot6 r5998 | fglock++ | * Span.pm - tests
13:52 mjl69 hi
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13:53 mjl69 I can't trip this thing up.  It really is better than Perl 5 so far.
13:53 mjl69 say sum 2,3,4; #this is valid Perl6?  It works.
13:53 mjl69 I haven't even studied any Perl 6 yet.  I'm just making stuff up and it works.
13:54 integral ?eval say [+] 2,3,4 # also works
13:54 evalbot6 9 bool::true
13:56 mjl69 hey, I finally got an error! say sum 2 3 4; #ha, no invisible commas, huh?
13:56 mjl69 :-)
14:00 mjl69 integral: cool.  It's like right out of the Haskell tutorial I was working through.  I am a Perl 6 convert.  As a total amateur, I have little invested in 5 anyway (except for a bunch of books)
14:00 svnbot6 r5999 | iblech++ | PIL2JS: Prelude::JS::Bool: (Hopefully) fix &not without arguments, not.t fails
14:00 svnbot6 r5999 | iblech++ | only 3 tests now.
14:00 justatheory has joined #perl6
14:00 integral mjl69: well perl6 being usable for day-to-day scripts and apps is still a way off.  The performance for one thing
14:01 autrijus wow, leo implemented lazy-k in parrot.
14:01 autrijus I should think twice before offering mad suggestions to crazy people.
14:01 mjl69 integral: I'll take it as far as is practical.  I'm not in a big hurry usually.
14:02 integral lazy-k?
14:03 autrijus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_K_programming_language
14:03 integral thanks
14:03 autrijus the quintessential untyped lambda calculus.
14:03 autrijus or rather, combinator calculus.
14:08 vkon has joined #perl6
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ | * PIL.Tie: Very minor Haddock fixes.
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ | * Test enhancements:
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ |   * builtins/arrays/slice.t, builtins/hashes/slice.t: Slices on array/hash literals
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ |   * var/var.t: Tests for recursive subs stomping on the lexicals of their other
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ |     instances
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ | * PIL2JS:
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ |   * PIL/Subs: Fix lexical stomping in anonymous Subs.
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ |   * Prelude::JS::Operators, PIL2JS.js: All operators
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ |     stringify/numify/booleanify their operators first (gives a small speed
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ |     penalty though, but at least I ported &prefix:<+> to JS).
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ |   * Prelude::JS::Array, Prelude::JS::Hash: Hash and array slices, with
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ |     assignment (@a[@idxs] = @new_vals).
14:08 svnbot6 r6000 | iblech++ |   * Fix compilation of modules (was broken because the import thing by gaal++).
14:08 gaal oops :)
14:09 autrijus :)
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14:10 vkon how can one propose patches for inclusion?
14:10 autrijus Limbic_Region: you got audio only even for .swf?
14:11 autrijus vkon: oh, it's easy. you give us your email address, then you'll get a committer invitation mail
14:11 autrijus and then you commit the patch.
14:11 vkon wow! but how can you assure quality of patches?
14:11 autrijus also, add yourself to AUTHORS.
14:11 autrijus vkon: the same way as wikipedia :)
14:11 xinming If hashes do carry an intrinsic iterator
14:11 xinming what does that mean please?
14:12 vkon way good... could you please add me as [email@hidden.address] TIA!
14:12 autrijus invitation sent. welcome aboard!
14:12 QtPlatypus xinming: An intrinsic iterator allows you to step threw the pairs in a hash.
14:13 vkon thanks. I hope I can be helpful.
14:13 autrijus "step through"
14:14 xinming A hash reference in a boolean context returns true if there are any pairs in the hash. In either case, any intrinsic iterator would be reset.
14:14 xinming QtPlatypus: I don't understand that exactly. :-S
14:14 autrijus vkon: ah, you are the WinCE perl5 porter. nice :)
14:14 QtPlatypus xinming: Can I use an example from perl5?
14:15 xinming sure
14:15 xinming QtPlatypus: sure
14:15 autrijus xinming: for %hash.kv { next if %hash }
14:15 autrijus xinming: that paragraph means that would be an infinite loop for a nonempty %hash.
14:15 vkon WinCE needs investing more efforts, I hope eventually I'll bring it up-to-date
14:16 xinming autrijus: I can understand that.
14:16 vkon autrijus: but initially it was Rainer Keuchel who provided a port...
14:16 autrijus so 'intrinsic iterator' is the invisible "cursor" of %hash that tracks how it is being iterated.
14:16 xinming for %hash.kv -> $key { next unless $key }  won't
14:16 autrijus xinming: actually I can argue that neither is infinite loop
14:17 autrijus where did you see that paragraph?
14:17 xinming Ok, Then, It is a kind of "variable" to keep the current position of a hash key. right?
14:17 autrijus in perl5's concept, right
14:18 xinming how about p6?
14:20 autrijus in p6, .kv is supposedly a generator list
14:20 autrijus that generates its next element dynamically whenever demanded
14:21 xinming autrijus: Ok,thanks, I think I understand now. I will check that again. thanks
14:21 autrijus np :)
14:29 xinming ?eval my $x = 2; my $t = q:ww/$x/ ;
14:29 evalbot6 \'$x'
14:29 svnbot6 r6001 | Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel - (p5) - removing all SUPER:: related code. SUPER:: is not really relevant for a true MI environment, it should be some variant of NEXT:: instead. But in order to simplify the metamodel, I removed it all for now
14:29 xinming why not 2 instead of $x ? :-S
14:29 xinming Or the string is wrong?
14:30 autrijus my $x = 2; my $t = qq/$x/; $t
14:30 autrijus ?eval my $x = 2; my $t = qq/$x/; $t
14:30 evalbot6 \'2'
14:31 xinming ?eval my $x = 2; my $y = 3; my $t = q:ww/$x $y/ ;
14:31 evalbot6 ['$x', '$y']
14:31 xinming In fact, It should generate a list as I thought.
14:32 xinming ?eval my $x = 2; my $y = 3; my $t = qq/$x $y/ ;
14:32 evalbot6 \'2 3'
14:35 Limbic_Region 6000 commits in 7 months - impressive
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14:35 vkon has quit IRC ("CGI:IRC")
14:36 Limbic_Region err - 6000 commits in 6 months - even more impressive
14:37 autrijus :)
14:37 autrijus parrot is still at r8768
14:38 QtPlatypus Limbic_Region: How is the rate changing?
14:38 autrijus QtPlatypus: it's linear
14:38 Limbic_Region there is a graph QtPlatypus - I don't have the link handy though
14:38 Limbic_Region it maps commits and committers against time IIRC
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14:40 Limbic_Region has anyone written an obfusicator yet?
14:40 * Limbic_Region thinks that might be a good way of identifying parser flaws
14:41 svnbot6 r6002 | fglock++ | * Span.pm - last change introduced a bug, fixed.
14:43 iblech has joined #perl6
14:43 iblech QtPlatypus: http://linide.sourceforge.net/pugs-svngraph-latest.png
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14:57 QtPlatypus iblech: Thankyou.
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15:02 autrijus hm, the interview is hard to do
15:02 autrijus I'll turn to metaphysical mishmash.
15:05 ingy has joined #perl6
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15:05 ingy_ hola
15:05 ingy_ I am user number 100
15:06 ingy_ glorious!
15:06 ingy_ I'm having severe irc problems...
15:07 ingy_ it seems the machine I use for irc is refused connection by freenode
15:07 autrijus ingy_: yo. saw the movie?
15:07 ingy_ but for some reason I can connect through this crappy hotel net
15:07 ingy_ autrijus!!
15:07 ingy_ yes!
15:07 autrijus happy?
15:07 ingy_ is this a jit?
15:07 autrijus yes.
15:08 autrijus totally
15:08 ingy_ for me?
15:08 autrijus yup
15:08 ingy_ I love you
15:08 autrijus thanks, me too
15:08 ingy_ it's fantastic
15:08 ingy_ who did all that cool stuff?
15:08 autrijus you mean the script?
15:09 autrijus it's from examples/advocacy/motd/pugspraise by ninereasons and other #perl6 folks
15:09 autrijus everything else is done by yours truly
15:09 ingy_ and the animatated overlays
15:09 ingy_ autrijus++
15:09 autrijus :)
15:09 ingy_ lambdahumpies++
15:11 ingy_ do you have time for an interview?
15:11 autrijus you mean the wikiview?
15:11 ingy_ ircinterview
15:12 ingy_ are there others around?
15:12 autrijus ircinterview is fine by me
15:12 autrijus I'll post the wikiview up
15:13 autrijus already six wikiviews are up
15:13 ingy_ ok one sec...
15:14 autrijus and mine is up.
15:14 autrijus warning: not what you expected.
15:15 ingy_ that's what I would expect though ;)
15:15 * ingy_ reads...
15:15 ingy_ while I read, please translate this into pugs: http://apocalypse.kwiki.org/index.cgi?GonzoProgramming
15:17 cognominal_ has joined #perl6
15:17 autrijus er, not sure how
15:17 svnbot6 r6003 | iblech++ | * util/svnlog2graph.pl: Adjust scaling again, as we've exceeded r6000. :)
15:17 svnbot6 r6003 | iblech++ | * PIL2JS: Fully ported &prefix:<?> to JS. As it is called extremely often (in
15:17 svnbot6 r6003 | iblech++ |   &statement_control:<if>, &statement_control:<loop> (and thus all other loop
15:17 svnbot6 r6003 | iblech++ |   constructs), it should give a noticable speedup, resmoking.
15:17 autrijus you mean into perl6 poetry?
15:17 autrijus iblech: wikiview? :)
15:18 iblech autrijus: Yep, writing currently :)
15:18 ingy_ iblech++
15:18 autrijus cool
15:19 ingy_ autrijus: have you read Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas?
15:19 autrijus no
15:19 ingy_ oh hmmm
15:19 ingy_ well it's all about a crazy drug induced hell ride
15:19 ingy_ something like pugs
15:19 ingy_ that paragraph is tha opening line...
15:20 ingy_ I think
15:20 ingy_ so I wanted to translate it into pugs speak
15:20 autrijus ok, I'll try, no promise
15:21 ingy_ like "a whole multi colored collection of uppers, downers, laughers, screamers"
15:21 ingy_ like "a whole multi colored collection of hyperoperators, junctions, sigils, twigils"
15:22 dada "a whole pattern-matched collection of..."
15:22 ingy_ yeah
15:22 QtPlatypus @drugs = <<uppers downers laughers screamers>>;
15:22 ingy_ we need a big see session
15:23 ingy_ What? No. We can't stop here. This is pugs country.
15:23 ingy_ :D
15:24 xinming what's the difference between symbolic reference and hard reference?
15:25 QtPlatypus xinming: I hard refrence is very simmler to a pointer in C.  It is a refrence to a storage space in the perl's memory.
15:25 xinming and symbolic reference is just a pkg::name::pkg2::name2 right?
15:26 ingy_ Yay. My hotel room just got extended
15:26 QtPlatypus More or less.  $::{...}
15:26 ingy_ no worries of trying to move this morning
15:27 ingy_ worries delayed 24 hours :)
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15:40 autrijus done.
15:41 autrijus http://apocalypse.kwiki.org/index.cgi?GonzoProgramming
15:42 autrijus fixes welcome
15:43 autrijus ingy: is that what you had in mind?
15:47 ingy back...
15:47 autrijus shower, bbiab &
15:48 ingy LOL
15:48 ingy AWESOME!!
15:48 ingy autrijus++
15:48 ingy autrijus++
15:48 ingy autrijus++
15:51 ingy I need to record someone like MJD quoting that...
15:51 ingy what's the easiest way to record voice on the mac?
15:52 dada something that begins with "i", like iVoice probably
15:52 * dada isn't a Mac user :-)
15:52 ingy :p
15:54 dudley ingy: GarageBand, if you have it
15:55 ingy yeah
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15:59 autrijus ingy: it now reads two "grammars" of regexes
15:59 autrijus I can record it if you want, but you better find (eg) damian :)
15:59 autrijus junctions are his idea after all
16:02 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
16:03 kolibrie the last bit that reads: in the depths of a junctive autothreading
16:03 kolibrie shouldn't that be: in the depths of a junctive autothread
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16:03 kolibrie or: in the the depths of junctive autothreading
16:04 autrijus actually, drop the "a" instead
16:04 kolibrie autrijus: very nicely done, by the way
16:04 autrijus thanks :)
16:04 autrijus come to think about it, we hadn't implemented "a" and "an"
16:05 autrijus my $hat = a Rabbit sub {...};
16:05 autrijus my $lay = an Egg sub {...};
16:05 autrijus come to think about it some more, I don't see a great need for it right now ;)
16:05 autrijus kwiki page updated
16:07 xinming has quit IRC ("I really love GNU")
16:08 dada can I ask 2 questions?
16:08 autrijus yes, you can. what's the other question?
16:09 dada 1. given sub foo { ... }, why does pop(@_) works and shift(@_) no?
16:09 dada they should both either fail or succeed, no?
16:09 autrijus right, please write tests :)
16:09 dada ok
16:10 dada 2. in a given/when construct, is when $_ > 1 a proper when-case?
16:10 autrijus I think so, yes
16:10 dada (I seemed to recall so, but didn't find mention in the Apo)
16:10 autrijus you may want to put () around them
16:11 dada ?eval my $x = 2; given($x) { when 1 { "one" } when ($_ > 1) { "more than one"} default { +$_ } }
16:11 evalbot6 2
16:11 dada nope
16:11 autrijus given and when are really orthogonal; you can use one without using the other
16:11 dada you mean I can write if($_ > 1) inside the given?
16:11 autrijus yes.
16:12 dada sure, but maybe this is a pugs bug anyway
16:12 autrijus no, I'm pretty sure it's as designed :)
16:12 dada so it's a p6l bug :-)
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16:13 autrijus huh? :)
16:13 dada I'm going to double-check with p6l anyway
16:15 kolibrie autrijus: I watched the SWF version of your oscon05 video.  Very awesome
16:15 autrijus sure. A04 has "if" inside given
16:15 svnbot6 r6004 | vkon++ | do not parse arguments after '--'; do not treat '-foo' as '-f'
16:15 autrijus but do doublecheck if it makes you feel better :)
16:29 ingy back
16:29 ingy hotel net went down
16:29 umbop has quit IRC ("Leaving")
16:29 ingy so autrijus
16:29 ingy how long until you sleep?
16:31 ingy I need to go eat
16:31 ingy bbiab
16:31 stevan ingy++ autrijus++ # fear and loathing in Pugs land
16:31 ingy then we can interview
16:31 ingy stevan!
16:31 stevan ingy!
16:31 Aankhen`` What video?
16:32 ingy be here in say 2 hours for interview
16:32 ingy &
16:32 stevan ingy: that will be right in the middle of a conf call, but I will try
16:33 autrijus hum I was planning to nap
16:33 autrijus oh well, I can set alarm so I wake up in 2hr.
16:33 Aankhen`` autrijus: What video is this?
16:33 autrijus Aankhen``: a jit performance of examples/advocacy/pugspraise for ingy's talk
16:34 Aankhen`` Link?
16:35 autrijus Aankhen``: see my journal
16:35 Aankhen`` OK, thanks.
16:35 autrijus np :)
16:35 stevan autrijus++ # perl6 code -> no worries;
16:35 Aankhen`` Dinner, BBIAF. &
16:35 autrijus stevan: strangely it's also perl5 code
16:35 autrijus so, no worries about perl 5 entire
16:35 autrijus s/entire/either/
16:36 autrijus nap, bbl (hopefully in time for ircinterview)
16:36 autrijus &
16:36 gaal has left
16:38 mjl69 eval $x = 2; given ($x) {when (1) {say 'one'} when (2) {say 'two'}};
16:38 mjl69 ?eval $x = 2; given ($x) {when (1) {say 'one'} when (2) {say 'two'}};
16:38 evalbot6 Error: Undeclared variable: "$x"
16:38 mjl69 whoops
16:38 mjl69 eval my $x = 2; given ($x) {when (1) {say 'one'} when (2) {say 'two'}};
16:38 mjl69 whoops again
16:39 mjl69 ?eval my $x = 2; given ($x) {when (1) {say 'one'} when (2) {say 'two'}};
16:39 evalbot6 two bool::true
16:39 mjl69 just trying it out.
16:39 mjl69 ?eval my $x = 2; given ($x) {say 'one' when 1; say 'two' when 2;};
16:39 evalbot6 Error:  unexpected "{" expecting operator, ":", ",", term postfix, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
16:40 mjl69 why doesn't this work?
16:41 dada I don't know if pugs supports postfix when yet
16:42 mjl69 will multiple statement modifiers be allowed for Perl 6?
16:42 dada I don't think so
16:42 mjl69 say 'one' when 1 if $y for @z;
16:42 dada I vote for no, but maybe I'm wrong
16:43 iblech mjl69: when as a statement-modifier is not yet implemented. Look if there's a test for it and if not, write one? :)
16:43 mjl69 oh well.  I know some are for and some against.
16:43 iblech dada: You're right, Larry has stated repeatedly multiple statemnet-modifiers are not allowed.
16:43 iblech But:
16:43 iblech do { ... if ... } for ...
16:43 iblech And there's do STMT, i.e.
16:43 iblech my $var = do given $foo {...}
16:45 dada so, Larry has multiple statements about multiple statement modifiers? ;-)
16:45 mjl69 iblech: thanks. as long as it is planned (when as statement-modifier).  it makes sense to be able to write it that way.
16:46 iblech dada: :D
16:49 gaal has joined #perl6
16:54 gaal ingy: the kwiki is borked
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17:02 svnbot6 r6005 | iblech++ | talks/Anatomie_eines_Compilers_am_Beispiel_von_Pugs.latex:
17:02 svnbot6 r6005 | iblech++ | * Brought the section introducing Pugs uptodate.
17:02 svnbot6 r6005 | iblech++ | * Added introductory slide about PIL2JS and added slide showing a PIL tree.
17:06 stevan gaal: it works for me
17:06 gaal ah, yes, works now.
17:06 stevan kwiki is kinda buggy like that ;)
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17:58 * ingy is back
18:01 ingy well kind of
18:02 ingy this cafe network is not usable
18:02 ingy need to move
18:02 gaal do they hand out bandwidth depending on the size of your mug?
18:02 wilx Hehe.
18:04 stevan ingy: I am working on a small movie based on the GonzoProgamming text
18:07 meppl has joined #perl6
18:09 ingy stevan++
18:09 ingy but the net here sucketh
18:10 ingy err
18:10 ingy nevermind that
18:10 ingy but it really does sucketh :)
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18:11 ingy stevan: I was wanting to get that recorded, so you are doing the ultimate thingy for me
18:11 ingy thanks
18:12 ingy http://apocalypse.kwiki.org/index.cgi?LambdaCamelInterview
18:12 ingy I want to do an interview here on irc with autrijus and others
18:12 stevan I think he is still sleeping
18:12 stevan and I am on conf call
18:13 ingy ok, I'll keep all ideas on wiki for now.
18:13 ingy I still have 24 hours
18:13 jabbot has joined #perl6
18:13 ingy which seems way to early for jit
18:13 ingy but then again I am just the messenger here
18:13 ingy not the hacker so much
18:14 ingy so I feel justified in my sheer terror
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18:39 acme__ autrijus++
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18:55 svnbot6 r6006 | fglock++ | * Set::Infinite - more "Recurrence Span" tests
18:55 svnbot6 r6007 | iblech++ | talks/Anatomie_eines_Compilers_am_Beispiel_von_Pugs.latex:
18:55 svnbot6 r6007 | iblech++ | Almost finished the talk: added section about the problems I've been encountering.
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18:59 autrijus ingy: I'm back.
19:01 autrijus hm, I see I'm 30min late
19:01 autrijus for the irc interview
19:02 ingy hi!
19:02 autrijus hi!
19:02 autrijus shall we?
19:03 ingy we shall?
19:03 ingy although I might need help with the questions too ;)
19:03 ingy ok...
19:03 ingy http://apocalypse.kwiki.org/index.cgi?LambdaCamelInterview
19:04 ingy Q: What is the basic timeline/milestones of Pugs so far?
19:05 autrijus hm, I believe you have that in your slides
19:05 saorge has quit IRC ("Leaving")
19:05 ingy ok fine
19:05 autrijus grep for 'What we have done this month'
19:05 autrijus that only covers Jun though
19:05 autrijus and only till 26th, so I can fill in Jul here
19:06 ingy Q: I remember that the first thing you finished was Junctions. How much longer was it until 'say' worked?
19:07 dada has quit IRC ("quoi? l'eternite'")
19:07 autrijus Jun 30 - Test::Builder feature complete
19:07 autrijus Jul 10 - Separate compilation, starting with Prelude.pm
19:07 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:08 ingy what is "Separate compilation"?
19:08 autrijus the idea that each .pm file can be compiled individually.
19:08 stevan each pugs committer compiles one sub from the prelude
19:08 autrijus sort of like perl5's abandoned .pmc idea
19:08 autrijus stevan: lol
19:08 stevan like python :)
19:09 autrijus ingy: basically, whenever you use Test::Builder, if T::B is precompiled, then it just loads the compiled form
19:09 autrijus and saves reparsing
19:09 autrijus perl6 supports full separate compilation, a very good idea that is very long overdue
19:09 autrijus (it didn't work in p5 partly because loading bytecode is slower than parsing)
19:10 autrijus Jul 14 - Beginning of Perl 5 evaluator of PIL
19:10 justatheory has quit IRC ()
19:10 autrijus er
19:10 autrijus or s/evaluator/interpreter/. same thing
19:10 gander has joined #perl6
19:10 autrijus Jul 17 - Beginning of PIL to JavaScript compiler
19:11 autrijus Jul 30 - New PIL runcore in Haskell begins
19:12 ingy sorry, massive lag
19:13 autrijus Aug 01 - MetaModel implementation in Perl5 bootstrapped without reliance on Perl5's native OO model
19:13 autrijus supposedly, Aug 02 should be "6.2.9 release" but we'll see.
19:13 ingy :)
19:13 ingy stevan: describe what is the meta-model
19:13 autrijus (if I missed anything please fill it in)
19:13 ingy what does it mean to me?
19:14 stevan ingy: the metamodel is the underlying structure of classes, roles and instances
19:15 autrijus ingy: "print" works on day 15
19:15 autrijus "say" is day 16.
19:16 ingy so the metamodel is currently implemented in vanilla Perl5?
19:16 autrijus Feb 15 and 16 respectively, conveniently
19:16 stevan ingy: and the metamodel defines how those 3 things work together
19:16 ingy how does that connect to pugs?
19:16 autrijus ingy: http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/perl5/Perl6-MetaModel/t/ is a good read for a glance
19:17 autrijus also stevan has partial implementations of the same metamodel in JavaScript and Java.
19:17 stevan ingy: the metamodel will give Pugs it's objects
19:18 autrijus ingy: the plan is to port MetaModel to Haskell, use it as the OO system for the new PIL runcore, verify its properties some more, then port it again to Perl 6.
19:19 stevan basically, using primative structures (scalar, array, hash and code) it constructs the object system
19:19 stevan throw a little sugar on top and you have perl 6 OO
19:19 ingy can it be used from pugs yet?
19:19 stevan ingy: no, not yet
19:19 autrijus ingy: no, not unless you use perl5:Perl6::MetaModel;
19:19 stevan it is still a perl 5 prototype
19:19 autrijus but that is not terribly useful
19:20 ingy :)
19:20 stevan autrijus: not to mention insane
19:20 autrijus that's a given
19:20 autrijus instanity is &given; the only question is &when
19:20 autrijus insanity, even.
19:21 autrijus ingy: so, the metamodel is the key to Perl6's portability
19:21 autrijus without a metamodel, we are at mercy of whatever objects the runtime feel like to support
19:21 stevan ingy: and when the metamodel is ported to Perl 6, it will be even more portable
19:21 autrijus with a metamodel, the runtime need only to implement a simple non-OO core language.
19:21 ingy talk a little  bit about how Pugs can use any Perl5 module
19:22 stevan (++ self-describing-meta-models)
19:22 autrijus theoretically instead of porting the metamodel thru Perl5->Haskell->Perl6, we could've done Perl5->Perl6 directly, but that will make the runcore much slower, and makes invariants harder to verify
19:23 autrijus so is probably not a net win.
19:23 stevan and really, it is a very small core
19:23 autrijus indeed
19:23 stevan once I remove all the rest of the Perl 5 sugar
19:23 stevan I ported it to JS in a weekend
19:23 ingy does pugs need special compilation to use Perl5 modules?
19:23 stevan the java port is harder
19:23 autrijus ingy: ok. to use a P5 module, you need to run Makefile.PL with the PUGS_EMBED=perl5 flag
19:23 ingy :)
19:23 autrijus which fails on win32 currently
19:23 autrijus then you can use perl5:DBI;
19:24 autrijus it only really works for OO modules.
19:24 autrijus because shared namespaces and lexical scope is something that the perlembed -- aka Inline::* -- model can't ever support well.
19:24 autrijus so that's just a stopgap feature; the real solution is compiling Perl6 to perl5vm.
19:25 ingy how is that possible?
19:25 autrijus beyond the Real solution, the Complex solution is to compile both perl5 and perl6 to ParrotVM.
19:25 stevan ingy: the Gonzo movie is taking shape, will upload soon
19:25 ingy stevan++
19:25 autrijus and the Transcendendal solution is to recompile perl5 into perl6.
19:25 autrijus so we have three paths.
19:25 autrijus (for seamless p5/p6 interop)
19:26 autrijus known as PIL/P5, Ponie, LarryPPD.
19:27 autrijus how is compiling perl6 to p5vm possible?
19:27 ingy right
19:27 autrijus it is simple. we implement an object space -- i.e. a metamodel -- in perl5
19:28 autrijus we also implement an alternate set of primitive bindings in perl5, known as the Runtime
19:28 autrijus (see ext/PIL-Run/ for a prototype)
19:28 autrijus finally, we write a compiler that takes PIL tree and emit Perl5 source code that calls into the runtime and the metamodel.
19:28 autrijus exactly as the current PIL2JS is doing
19:29 autrijus (I also reserve the option to use Acme::Bleach-type module to transparently enable modules to rewrite themselves with cached perl5 representation.)
19:30 autrijus (but that may be too insane. maybe just keep a .pm5 in the same directory.)
19:30 autrijus the idea is you should eventually be able to say
19:30 autrijus use pugs; ...code...; no pugs;
19:30 autrijus and instead of the current IPC implementation, it will trigger a real, Inline::C type compilation of the ...code...
19:31 autrijus and save a SHA1 cache... etc etc
19:31 ingy wow
19:31 autrijus that is, Inline::Pugs will treat Pugs as a compiled language that happens to compile to Perl5 instead of XS.
19:31 autrijus I think we can do all this in pure-perl land
19:31 autrijus instead of involving XS.
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19:32 autrijus if we do, then we can port the Parser and the PIL compiler from Haskell to Perl6
19:33 autrijus thereby recompiling the compiler so it will too become just a pure perl5 cpan module
19:33 autrijus in which case a Perl5 user will not need a C compiler, but can use Perl 6 in full.
19:33 autrijus that's my basic plan for interop.
19:33 autrijus __END__
19:34 ingy I'm not ignoring you, I'm lagged sometimes
19:34 ingy baadly
19:34 autrijus that's fine
19:35 vcv has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:35 ingy so how many "technologies" are currently playing together in the "Grand Borg Interop"?
19:35 ingy * Parrot
19:35 ingy * Perl5 Runtime
19:35 ingy ...
19:36 ingy (this would be a good time to resolve all those P** acronyms
19:36 ingy * Javascript
19:36 putter has joined #perl6
19:36 autrijus and * GHC
19:36 ingy is this list too infinite
19:36 ingy putter!
19:36 autrijus no, that's all there is currently.
19:36 autrijus please see docs/notes/plan
19:36 autrijus that explains it well.
19:37 autrijus http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/docs/notes/plan
19:37 putter & :)
19:37 ingy putter: putter http://apocalypse.kwiki.org/index.cgi?Interviews
19:37 ingy do a quick interview for me
19:38 ingy autrijus: ok
19:38 nnunley has joined #perl6
19:38 ingy nnunley: http://apocalypse.kwiki.org/index.cgi?Interviews
19:38 * putter tiptoes out to avoid disturbing the interview in progress.
19:39 autrijus putter: I think ingy want you to fill the survey
19:39 autrijus so he can read it out loud in his imminent talk
19:39 easy4 has quit IRC ()
19:39 ingy nnunley: ^^ what autrijus say
19:40 ingy Q: In terms of major pieces of functionality, who is currrently working on what?
19:40 * Aankh|Clone finishes reading the backlog and jumps up and down in excitement.
19:41 Aankh|Clone is now known as Aankhen``
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19:42 autrijus ingy: at this moment (things change rapidly), the P5 side is mostly stevan, but putter, mugwump and nothingmuch hacks on it too; the javascript side is entirely iblech.
19:43 autrijus the PIR side has stalled a bit pending leo stabilizing leo-ctx5; previously it was mostly me and putter, but with lots of input from #parrot, leo and chip
19:43 autrijus my current focus is the new PIL runcore, but I consult with the channel for help, and lots of people chimed in as well.
19:44 autrijus (the new runcore is in Haskell.)
19:45 autrijus that's just the parts we mentioned; there are also the parser, build system (gaal++), docs (lots of people), and tests (virtually everybody)
19:45 autrijus and of course the many many modules.
19:46 autrijus and the module/example authors are usually driving forces for new features :)
19:46 autrijus __END__
19:47 ingy do all the modules in ext actually compile and work?
19:47 clkao hi pugsters, svk 1.02 is out. with the growing size of pugs repository, you shall see significant perforamnce increase on push/pull.
19:47 ingy I guess they have their own test suites
19:48 autrijus clkao: yes, I upgraded to trunk yesterday
19:48 autrijus my HD churns a lot less now
19:48 * clkao grins
19:48 brentdax_ has joined #perl6
19:48 autrijus (I was upgrading from 1.00, so I also benefitted from the leak fix)
19:48 brentdax_ is now known as brentdax
19:49 autrijus ingy: yes, and they compile/work as far as their t/ is concerned
19:49 clkao autrijus: make sure you ahve the really latest svn::mirror
19:49 clkao 0.65 on pause incoming
19:49 autrijus roger
19:49 ingy btw, can you easily write Perl6 modules in Haskell?
19:49 autrijus yeah, and we also have infrastructure people working on essential tools, svk in particular ;)
19:49 ingy :)
19:50 * clkao grins
19:52 ingy autrijus: did you get that last Q?
19:52 ingy btw, can you easily write Perl6 modules in Haskell?
19:52 autrijus you can't write perl6 modules in haskell :)
19:52 autrijus however, you can inline haskell code in perl 6 modules and expect the current runcore to recognize it.
19:53 ingy ok cool
19:53 ingy one last Q for now...
19:53 ingy What is the current UI/API between Pugs and Cabal?
19:53 Khisanth does that require the hs-plugin thing?
19:53 Aankhen`` Khisanth: Yes.
19:53 Aankhen`` hs-plugins.
19:53 autrijus Khisanth: aye
19:53 ingy Khisanth, Aankhen`` : do an interview on the wiki please
19:54 autrijus ingy: the API is p6[cli]
19:54 Aankhen`` I'm just helping with modules, I'm not contributing to Pugs directly...
19:54 ingy http://apocalypse.kwiki.org/index.cgi?Interviews
19:54 ingy Aankhen``: that's fine
19:54 autrijus Aankhen``: CPAN is the language, Perl just the runtime :)
19:54 Aankhen`` Heh.
19:54 autrijus Aankhen``: so you are doing the vocabulary :)
19:54 ingy you are still contributing
19:54 Aankhen`` My mistake, I forgot that. :-)
19:55 autrijus ingy: there are talks about IRC meetings, but I don't know if it's been arranged.
19:55 ingy ok... I have to run for now.
19:55 autrijus cool. and I'll sleep :)
19:55 autrijus see you in 10 hours or so
19:55 ingy I'll take this into a rough draft and be back later
19:55 autrijus k
19:55 ingy thanks!!!!
19:56 autrijus np. rock on!
19:56 ingy see you in 10!!
19:56 ingy or so ;)
19:56 putter autrijus: very quick question.  Syn "rx" goes away in PIL2, yes?
19:57 nnunley2 has joined #perl6
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20:01 autrijus putter: there's no Syn.
20:01 autrijus in PIL2.
20:01 autrijus Syn is a parse tree thing.
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20:06 Limbic_Region ingy - you still about?
20:07 Limbic_Region you might want to ask autrijus what his plans are now that his 6 month sabbatical is over
20:07 Limbic_Region at least I would like to know
20:07 autrijus heh. I can answer you
20:08 Limbic_Region right - I figured as much
20:08 Limbic_Region but I am betting a larger audience would like to know
20:09 * Limbic_Region doubts seriously more than a few know that you turned down funding initially to have the freedom to do what you want and gave yourself six months *mostly* off from $work to see what you could do
20:10 Limbic_Region since Pugs is all the rage now and it has such visibility - I bet people will be quite interested to know what happens now
20:10 G2 has joined #perl6
20:10 Limbic_Region so perhaps ingy comes back and backlogs - what's the answer - huh huh huh?
20:10 autrijus sorry, I was in #haskell discussing antibuddha
20:11 autrijus http://urchin.earth.li/darcs/antibuddha/README # fun
20:12 stevan nice
20:12 autrijus yeah. talking about adopting modperl2 technologies
20:12 autrijus and enable both single and multiple interpreter
20:14 autrijus so. my plans
20:14 autrijus I'm currently getting consulting gigs and try to work so I can fly to icfp & euroscon
20:14 Limbic_Region fwiw - I am still working on that whole "win the lottery thing"
20:14 Amnesiac has quit IRC ("Leaving")
20:15 autrijus I think I'll keep diverting 50%/50% on pugs and $work for the next two months
20:15 autrijus and after I'm back to euroscon, maybe putting more time to $work so I can get another (maybe shorter) sabbatical in early 2006
20:16 autrijus this time spending few months in .eu with leo or other lambdas or camels
20:16 autrijus that's about it for now
20:16 Limbic_Region IIRC, you indicated you weren't opposed to funding now
20:17 autrijus that's right; the tpf page has been udpated
20:17 autrijus so a writeup on my journal pledging for sponsorship prolly won't hurt.
20:18 Limbic_Region there has been a lot of contraversy over who gets funding and what they do with it
20:18 autrijus but I can't deliver milestones the same way TPF grants work really -- I can shift priorities, write journals, get releases, publish papers, and that's that
20:18 Limbic_Region I doubt there is anyone out there that would or could question that you wouldn't be productive
20:18 Limbic_Region but would you still want funding if it meant you didn't have the liberty to completely tear something apart you felt needed fixing
20:19 * Limbic_Region notes we are a bit out of phase
20:19 Limbic_Region you are answering questions before they are asked
20:19 autrijus right, must be this time machine thing
20:19 autrijus let me readjust it a bit
20:19 autrijus better
20:19 gander has quit IRC ("Leaving")
20:19 autrijus now, where are we?
20:20 Limbic_Region was about to ask how much it would take to fund you for a month
20:20 Limbic_Region where you could be at least as productive as if you had a 9-5 hacking pugs that is
20:21 stevan 3 cases of diet coke, 50 packages of Ramen,...
20:21 * stevan calculates ...
20:22 Limbic_Region well - not to inflate autrijus' head but
20:22 autrijus Limbic_Region: usd$3k/month is I think what it takes to let me focus completely
20:22 Limbic_Region ok - let me finish my last thought
20:23 autrijus and will also cover travel to people
20:23 Limbic_Region 8hrs productivity doesn't equate to 8 hours of work for autrijus - past performance illustrates this - you also have the ability to switch tasks rather easily and not take too long to readjust
20:24 autrijus that's right. so I'm okay with funding come in in 1month units, even.
20:24 autrijus or even partially. (and even not at all. :-))
20:25 Limbic_Region well, I will come out of lurker status for 1 hr only to summarize this on my journal - feel free to point people to it
20:25 autrijus it's just a matter of how much accelleration it's going to effect
20:25 putter does the 3k$us include whatever tax bite .tw takes?
20:26 Limbic_Region I think it is important to know that you are not independently wealthy and that it isn't a lot of money to keep you going
20:26 Limbic_Region s/and/but/
20:26 autrijus putter: .tw has no tax for foreign wireins.
20:26 putter k
20:26 autrijus putter: very commerce friendly
20:28 autrijus Limbic_Region: yeah. I calculated 6 months to precisely deplete my savings completely (well, honestly, there's ~usd$3k left), so I'm very not wealthy now. otoh, it's not very hard to find short term works either. but sponsorship would help, too.
20:28 Limbic_Region well autrijus, I think it is important to put that into perspective too
20:29 Limbic_Region it works out to be about $100 USD / day since I seldom see you take days off
20:29 autrijus *nod*
20:29 Limbic_Region and assuming you only worked 8 hours a day - that would be $12.50 / hour
20:29 Limbic_Region there are people working at McDonalds making more than that
20:29 autrijus mcdonalds people take days off :)
20:30 autrijus so you'll be better dividing it by 44 or 42 or whatever working hour is normally
20:30 Qiang they get free diet coke too. ;-)
20:30 autrijus Qiang: that's right!
20:30 Limbic_Region they also pay taxes
20:31 Limbic_Region so that number would still be a lot lower
20:31 autrijus anyway, that's $18/hr in the ballpark.
20:31 Limbic_Region ok - so even at $18.75 / hr, it is still a huge bargain since the 8hr of work equates to much more productivity then the "norm"
20:32 * Limbic_Region notes the time and heads for home but will summarize this on his journal tonight
20:32 autrijus and you can argue it accelerate other people and other projects too, etc.
20:32 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("hometime")
20:33 Qiang autrijus: noticed its 16:33, are you living in the NA timezone now?
20:33 Aankhen`` My "interview" is up, hope it helps.
20:33 autrijus Qiang: no, I stayed up to do interview with ingy
20:33 autrijus and then L~R. I really need to head back now
20:33 autrijus Qiang: you may like this: http://apocalypse.kwiki.org/index.cgi?AutrijusInterview
20:34 Aankhen`` Right.
20:34 Aankhen`` G'night.
20:34 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (""I went insane trying to take a close-up picture of the horizon." -- S.W. [Time wasted online: 1hr 59mins 2secs]")
20:35 autrijus ah, aankhen is in india. didn't know about that
20:36 Qiang autrijus: cool. the chinese doesn't show up correctly, but i guess the english is translation of the chinese?
20:36 Qiang that should read. some of the chinese doesn't
20:36 autrijus ah. they are in zh-tw. you'd need tongwen.mozdev or something like that
20:37 Qiang oh. can even show it partially correct in utf-8
20:37 Qiang tongwen is extention ?
20:38 autrijus yeah
20:38 autrijus that does tw/cn translation
20:38 autrijus in zh-cn those words would be
20:38 autrijus 孰能浊以止?静之徐清。孰能安以久?动之徐生。保此道者,不欲盈。 / 「曲则全,枉则直,洼则盈,敝则新, 少则得,多则惑。」是以圣人抱一为天下式。 / 人之生也柔弱,其死也坚强。草木之生也柔脆,其死也枯槁。故 坚强者死之徒,柔弱者生之徒。是以兵强则灭,木强则折,强大居下,柔弱居上。 / 为无为,事无事,味无å‘
20:38 autrijus Qiang: does that look correct?
20:39 Qiang remember that you saying you had the problem where all chinese in irc becomes sqare box. did you get it fixed? i am still getting that
20:39 Qiang squar
20:39 autrijus I got it fixed after reinstalling irssi with recode
20:39 autrijus oh well. :-/
20:39 * clkao grins
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20:40 Qiang hm. you didn't have recode before ?
20:40 autrijus that's right
20:41 Qiang i am wondering how come we can read utf-8 chinese before even without recode
20:41 meppl has joined #perl6
20:41 Qiang oh well. :-/ guess i will try what you have done
20:42 autrijus have fun. :) I'll sleep now.
20:42 putter Good night autrijus.
20:42 Steve_p Ow!  My eyes!~;)
20:42 Qiang night.
20:43 autrijus stevan: if you can changelog within the next 12 hours or so, that'd be nice; otherwise maybe delegate to gaal or others; if all fails I'll do it tomorrow once I'm up
20:43 * autrijus waves &
20:44 stevan autrijus: I will take care of it
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21:25 ingy stevan: how's the video?
21:25 svnbot6 r6008 | putter++ | VRule, which formerly appeared as Rule, now appears as Pugs::Internals::VRule, which does a new role Rule.  All t/ ext/ and t_disabled/ tests work.  This is a preliminary to having additional regex engines.
21:26 ingy stevan: mail me a url
21:26 ingy lunch&
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21:35 putter iblech: I didn't check PIR2JS prior to making the VRule change (r6008).  Backing it out is fine if it causes you problems.  The change has the unfortunate concequence that /a/.ref is no longer Rule, as specced.  Rule was both a role and the pugs internal implementation class.  I don't believe the equivalent of String/Str has been specced yet.(?)
21:36 pasteling "mxmasster" at 66.113.65.25 pasted "Help with Excel Spreadsheet" (8 lines, 405B) at http://sial.org/pbot/12181
21:37 iblech putter: No worries :) PIL2JS doesn't do any rx things yet, so I'm absolutely fine with that change :)
21:38 osfameron has joined #perl6
21:42 stevan ingy: look on the wiki, I posted a URL
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21:44 putter ok.  :)  I noticed the js regexp model is regretably limited (no embedded code or named backrefs).  A modified pcre backend will transliterate and unpack, but it looks like full rules support will have to wait for the next step, a pure p6 engine...
21:47 iblech Right...
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22:02 svnbot6 r6009 | iblech++ | * docs/notes/plan, Anatomie_eines_Compilers_am_Beispiel_von_Pugs.latex:
22:02 svnbot6 r6009 | iblech++ |   Very minor typo fixes.
22:02 svnbot6 r6009 | iblech++ | * PIL2JS:
22:02 svnbot6 r6009 | iblech++ |   * PIL::Subs: $?SUBNAME, &?SUB and &?BLOCK all correctly reset to their
22:02 svnbot6 r6009 | iblech++ |     pre-subentry contents when a sub is about to return. This means
22:02 svnbot6 r6009 | iblech++ |     t/magicals/subname.t passes 3/3 now. :)
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22:11 putter I'd like to say  op2Match x@(VRule _) y | not y@(VRule _)  = op2Match y x  but that doesn't work.  Thoughts...?
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22:14 iblech Hm, define op2Match x@(VRule _) (VRule _) = ... and op2Match x@(VRule _) y = op2Match y x?
22:16 putter yeah, I tried that next. :)  helpfully, ghc gives overlapping definition warnings... (theres a default op2Match x y = ... case).
22:17 putter :(
22:17 buu Holy god, what language is that?
22:17 iblech Haskell :)
22:17 buu It's worse than malbolge!
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22:25 Darren_Duncan has joined #perl6
22:26 Darren_Duncan seen ingy
22:26 jabbot Darren_Duncan: ingy was seen 59 minutes 36 seconds ago
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22:26 Darren_Duncan if anyone's at OSCON, I'm interested in meeting ... I'm currently in Damian's best OO practices, and will attend evening events afterwards
22:27 Darren_Duncan ingy, hopefully today will work (not waiting too long and all)
22:28 putter iblech: courtesy of #haskell, create a guard predicate not_VRule and do   op2Match x@(VRule _) y | not_VRule y = ... :)
22:29 iblech putter: oooh, nice! :)
22:29 pdcawley_ Darren: What's the like?
22:29 pdcawley_ Damian's talk that is.
22:29 Darren_Duncan great
22:30 Darren_Duncan he's the best speaker I've seen anywhere
22:30 Darren_Duncan also very helpful with questions
22:30 pdcawley_ Yeah. I'm guessing that he's not got worse since I last saw him.
22:30 Darren_Duncan I'm learning/reinforcing things I can apply right away
22:30 putter And available for world-wide training sessions as well... ;)
22:30 Darren_Duncan I also got him to sign my tutorial books and his new Oreilly book
22:31 sili is now known as perlboy
22:32 Darren_Duncan he also said a comment I made about his Best Practices talks and books was very insightful and/or that few to none else have said so
22:32 pdcawley_ My copy of that's in the post. I'm looking forward to it.
22:32 perlboy is now known as sili
22:32 pdcawley_ Ooh.. get you.. what did you say?
22:32 Darren_Duncan what I said is that, knowing Damian's heavy involvement in Perl 6 design ...
22:33 Darren_Duncan I said that I thought his recommended practices in Perl 5 was to get us working in ways that would become more natural in Perl 6
22:33 Darren_Duncan something like that
22:33 pdcawley_ Ah... yes. That wouldn't surprise me at all.
22:33 Darren_Duncan still, his reply said or implied that he hadn't heard anyone, or hardly anyone, realize that
22:34 Darren_Duncan and yes, I came to that on my own
22:35 pdcawley_ Well, if you start writing Perl that looks like Perl instead of warmed over C or whatever, Perl 6 is going to fit your way of thinking really well.
22:36 pdcawley_ I've always thought that the people who were squawking that Perl 6 "doesn't look like Perl" probably didn't know what Perl actually looked like. Which is possibly laying it on a little thick, but not that much...
22:37 Darren_Duncan mind you, I've been making serious efforts to make my Perl 5 look like Perl 6 will (helped by my attempts to write Perl 6) look, so people migrating have the easiest time in using them, and it is easier to keep them in sync
22:37 sahadev has quit IRC ("Client exiting")
22:37 pdcawley_ Higher Order Perl's another good book if you want to write code that's going to be even easier in Perl 6.
22:37 Darren_Duncan don't have that ... who wrote it?
22:38 pdcawley_ Dominus.
22:38 pdcawley_ It's great.
22:38 Darren_Duncan will look for it
22:38 pdcawley_ HOP in Perl'll be great. All the little callbacks he uses that use $_[...] for convenience and with all the extraneous subbiness can get replaced with -> $named_args {...}
22:38 pdcawley_ Which'll be *lovely*
22:39 pdcawley_ I WANT POINTY BLOCKS NOW DAMMIT!
22:50 putter With a language as large as p5, people use personal dialects, subsets of features.  So it seems at least plausible that for some narrow dialects, p6 breaks a significant portion of their idioms.  (putter tries to give people the benefit of the doubt)
22:50 svnbot6 r6010 | putter++ | /a/ ~~ "a" now works, rather than only "a" ~~ /a/.  iblech++ #haskell++
22:52 putter Tried to write r6010 in Prelude.pm (one line) rather than haskell (several), but infix:<~~> on VRules just wasnt happening.
22:57 dudley hmm. Does perl 5.8.7 build with gcc 4.0?
23:00 Khisanth gcc 4.0 sounds annoying already :)
23:00 dudley Yep.
23:01 dudley I'm getting those annoying linking errors again, but I'm sure it's not parrot this time.
23:01 dudley I think I may have built perl5 yesterday with 4.0
23:02 putter dudley: mac?
23:02 dudley yeah, 10.4
23:02 putter there's a section in INSTALL...
23:02 dudley Yeah, I wrote it.
23:02 putter doh.
23:03 dudley :-)
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23:17 ingy stevan: Gonzo.mov will not play :(
23:18 pasteling has joined #perl6
23:20 putter iblech, is there any reason a Parser.hs couldn't possiblyApplyMacro $ App (Var "&rxbare_") Nothing [expr] where macro rxbare_ ($pat) is primitive is safe is defined in the Prelude?
23:20 ingy stevan: > md5 Gonzo.mov
23:20 ingy MD5 (Gonzo.mov) = a5f410418ea0635201c9e2c5924707bd
23:21 iblech putter: Should work.
23:21 iblech putter: If it doesn't, maybe fully qualify the subname.
23:22 putter No compatible subroutine found: "&rxbare_" :(  Thanks - thought I'd get a reality check before debugging...
23:22 putter k
23:23 iblech Hm, have you added &rxbare_ and the end of the Prelude?
23:23 putter yes.
23:23 iblech (I tried adding a stub &tied some days ago, to the end of the Prelude, too, and Pugs didn't find it then.)
23:23 putter haven't tried "&*rxbare_"  ... in progress...
23:24 putter ah.
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23:26 cybercobra has joined #perl6
23:27 cybercobra newbie question - what's logical err? (err, //)
23:28 iblech my $a = undef // 3;  # $a will be 3
23:28 iblech my $a = $all_other_values // 3;  # $a will be $all_other_values
23:29 iblech I.e. if the first arg is undef, return the second arg, else return the first arg
23:29 iblech sub infix:<//> ($a, $b) { defined($a) ?? $a :: $b }  (ignoring the thunkiness of $b)
23:30 cybercobra ahh. thanks. and the pipe operators? (==>, <==)
23:30 putter ($a // $b)  in p5 is (defined $a ? $a : $b)
23:30 Odin- Pass everything on the blunt end into the 'rest' argument of whatever is on the pointy end.
23:30 iblech I.e. @array ==> map {...} or map {...} <== @array
23:32 cybercobra so it means 'append/prepend the array result on the pointy end to the array on the blunt end'?
23:33 ingy hey guys, why does the pugs interpreter sound an alarm constantly?
23:33 ingy it is also making my readline keys behave very strangely
23:33 putter (@a ==> map {}) is in p5 (map {} @a)
23:33 putter which you can still do.  also @a.map:{}
23:34 putter the advantage is @a ==> map {} ==> grep {} ==> @b   is clearer than the p5 equivalent.
23:34 putter sortof.
23:37 putter woot.  explicit Foo::rxbare_ at both ends works.
23:38 iblech ingy: Hm, pos1/end etc. work *sometimes* strangely here, too
23:41 ingy iblech: when I start up the pugs shell, it goes beep beep beep... forever
23:41 ingy but it still works
23:41 ingy except when I hit an arrow key
23:41 iblech weird
23:41 ingy it is repeated
23:42 ingy forever it seems
23:42 ingy it is very odd
23:42 ingy I'm using a mac
23:42 ingy with pugs @ 6007 or so
23:42 ingy this has been happening for some time though
23:49 cybercobra what's adverbial (:) do?
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23:53 putter :x  is  (x => 1)   :x(3)  is  (x => 3)   :x<foo>  :x[3,4,5]   :{}  is  sub { }
23:54 putter iteracts nicely with named arguments.  sub foo(+$x,+$y) ...  foo :y(12) :x(2);
23:55 cybercobra so, it's like keyword args but w/ a funny syntax?
23:55 putter 1 .. 10 :by(2)  # which doesnt work yet
23:56 cybercobra ahh, like smalltalk selectors. neat. thanks.
23:56 putter yes.  it's a shorthand for a pair, which are used for keyword args.
23:56 putter np.
23:57 brentdax has joined #perl6
23:57 cybercobra putter: and semi-infinite range (...) ?
23:58 buu Holy christ
23:58 putter 1 .. Inf  ;)  sortof.  lazy.
23:59 cybercobra okay. that makes sense.

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