Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-09-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:57 stevan luqui: yo punk!
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02:12 luqui stevan, po yunk
02:16 luqui we seem to be 20 minutes out of phase
02:16 * luqui &
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04:51 * QtPlatypus reads up on fuzzylogic and ponders fuzzy junctions.
04:52 luqui QtPlatypus, see Quantum::Entanglement
04:53 luqui not only are they fuzzy junctions, the fuzziness is complex
05:02 coral (qtplatypus: |...)hello(...| qtplatypus)
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07:38 geoffb *yawn*
07:39 * geoffb staying up with fussy infant while spouse gets blessed, blessed sleep
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08:16 geoffb Oh for heaven's sakes.  In frustration at slow and/or impossible pugs builds, I finally order a new machine (for the first time in years) as a replacement development box.
08:16 webmind- heh
08:17 webmind- perl6 is good for the computer industry
08:17 webmind- :)
08:17 geoffb After spending an entire day doing research and comparison of each and every part, I finally slap the credit card down, and then go to check the usual tech sites for some fun reading -- only to find that they just updated their buyer's guides for the first time in ages.
08:18 geoffb Sigh.  I guess now I get to see if I made the right decisions.  :-)
08:18 webmind- heh
08:18 geoffb webmind: heh -- I was thinking earlier that I've proven that Perl 6 is good for the economy.  :-)
08:36 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
08:36 nothingmuch From autrijus 's journal: "Container equivalence test =:= distinguished from object identity test eqv."
08:36 nothingmuch UGH!
08:37 nothingmuch eqv is *not* generic equality?
08:37 nothingmuch why is =:= useful at all?
08:39 nothingmuch http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.language/22952
08:41 autrijus eqv is by default obj ident
08:41 autrijus but you can override it to mean generic eq
08:41 nothingmuch and that sucks
08:41 nothingmuch =(
08:41 nothingmuch for Int  and so forth
08:41 nothingmuch culturally, i mean
08:42 autrijus maybe Int does override eqv to mean value eq.
08:42 nothingmuch i don't know wtf is going on in @Larry>>.head WRT to equality testing
08:42 autrijus and I don't know what's the expected use case of =:= either.
08:42 nothingmuch it's the most inconsistent, non newbie friendly semantics i've ever seen
08:42 nothingmuch there is some backwards compatibility, which I can understand, but 'eqv', 'equals', '=:=', and so forth... why?!
08:43 * nothingmuch sighs heavily
08:44 nothingmuch btw, iblech++ ; # http://m19s28.vlinux.de/cgi-bin/pugs-smokeserv.pl
08:44 autrijus bbiab...
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09:00 Aankhen`` geoffb: What's the config of the machine you ordered?
09:03 nothingmuch iblech: ping
09:03 nothingmuch or anyone, actually
09:03 nothingmuch i have perl in /usr/local/bin/perl and /usr/bin/perl
09:04 geoffb Aankhen``, designed to be fast, but also give me good programming habits.  So: Athlon 64 X2 3800+, 2 GB OCZ Platinum, MSI Neo4/SLI Platinum, XFX 7800 GTX OC, etc.
09:04 nothingmuch i'd like to use /usr/local/bin/perl for all things pugs (running makefile, config, smoke server client, pil run)
09:04 nothingmuch # ./pugs -w t/rules/from_perl6_rules/combchar.tPerl lib version (v5.8.6) doesn't match executable version (v5.8.1) at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.6/darwin-thread-multi-2level/Config.pm line 32.
09:05 geoffb Aankhen``, oh, and quiet.  Did my best to spec quiet moving parts.
09:05 geoffb We'll see how well it works
09:05 Aankhen`` Wow.
09:05 Aankhen`` Niice stuff.
09:05 geoffb When you only upgrade a couple times a decade, you store up the lust.  :-)
09:06 broquaint /usr/local/bin/perl Makefile.PL # Perhaps, nothingmuch?
09:06 geoffb This box should be literally an order of magnitude faster than the old box
09:06 geoffb nothingmuch, you know, I think broquaint is right, actually.
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09:07 Aankh|Clone Weird...
09:07 Aankh|Clone [14:35:33] <geoffb> When you only upgrade a couple times a decade, you store up the lust.  :-)
09:07 geoffb nothingmuch, though I seem to recall that some pugs tests try to do their own harness-facsimile and get it wrong
09:07 Aankh|Clone [14:35:38] <Aankhen``> Heh.
09:07 Aankh|Clone [14:35:55] <Aankhen``> Are you getting two graphics cards?
09:07 Aankh|Clone Last I got.
09:07 geoffb Those last two lines you sent I didn't get before.
09:07 geoffb And no -- for now, just the one, though I specifically got an SLI board in case of later upgrade
09:07 Aankh|Clone Ah, I see.
09:07 Aankh|Clone What about storage?
09:09 geoffb Using a still-in-packaging 200 GB Seagate 7200.7 SATA I had laying around.
09:09 Aankh|Clone Mmm.
09:09 geoffb Nothing special, but importantly: quiet.
09:09 Aankh|Clone Seems a little wimpy for the specs.
09:09 Aankh|Clone OK.
09:09 Aankh|Clone Does your work require minimum noise, or is it just your preference?
09:10 geoffb Oh sure, wimpy, but like I said, quiet -- and why buy a new drive, when you already have a SATA drive lying around gathering dust?
09:10 Aankh|Clone Buy one more 200 GB drive and put them in RAID 0, then buy two 500 GB drives and put them in RAID 1. :-
09:10 Aankh|Clone D
09:11 geoffb My office has 6-10 computers running at any given time, many of them too old to be designed for anything resembling quiet.  It gets annoyingly loud.
09:11 geoffb I'm slowly replacing the loudest boxes with new quiet ones
09:11 Aankh|Clone I see.
09:12 geoffb Re: RAID drives -- heh.  Well, the case has room, and the chipset can do (though IIRC under linux most chipset raid is actually slower than software raid)
09:14 Aankh|Clone What's the whole thing costing you?
09:15 geoffb Too much, and thankfully a lot less than it would be if I didn't already have a few of the parts and peripherals I needed.
09:15 Aankh|Clone Heh.
09:15 geoffb The monitor for one, glad I didn't have to include that this time around, sheesh.
09:16 Aankh|Clone I need a new monitor... one which can do 1280x1024 at more than 60 Hz. :-\
09:17 Aankh|Clone I've thought of upgrading mine very often, but the thing is, buying another 17" one seems really stupid, and I don't have the desk space for anything larger.  Oh, and LCDs are way beyond my reach.
09:17 geoffb a few months ago, I finally just had had it with wimpy resolution, and mothballed my LCDs to return to the land of a big (and HEAVY) CRT
09:17 Aankh|Clone LOL.
09:18 wolverian I have a five year old Nokia trinitron display, 17". It is still better than any LCD I've seen.
09:19 wolverian (I run it at 1280x1024. That's the only bad side - resolutions above that go below 85Hz)
09:19 Aankh|Clone Lucky you.
09:19 Aankh|Clone Once we go abroad, I'm not buying a monitor smaller than 24". :-P
09:20 geoffb An Apple Cinema display is a truly gorgeous thing, but it's A) expensive as hell (especially the 30", which also requires a high-end video card to drive it), and gets the gorgeous color by having crap response time
09:20 Aankh|Clone http://www.go-l.com/
09:20 Aankh|Clone Go look at their Athens displays.
09:21 geoffb Whee, pugs build finishes, I can launch firefox again . . . :-/  (THIS WOULD BE WHY I'M GETTING A NEW BOX)
09:21 Aankh|Clone LMAO.
09:21 Aankh|Clone http://www.go-l.com/monitors/athens/features/index.htm
09:21 Aankh|Clone More specific link.
09:23 geoffb As soon as FF pages in, I'll take a look.  :-)
09:23 geoffb And BTW, if you do go the CRT route, I've been happy with my NEC FP2141SB.
09:24 Aankh|Clone That sounds familira.
09:24 Aankh|Clone Familiar, even.
09:24 Aankh|Clone Hm
09:24 Aankh|Clone .
09:25 Aankh|Clone Ah.
09:25 geoffb It was recommended in a few buyer's guides, which is what led me to it
09:25 Aankh|Clone It was one of the displays I considered for my dream machine some years ago. :-)
09:25 Aankh|Clone Then I replaced it with a 61" plasma display (also from NEC).
09:25 geoffb In your dreams, or in RL?
09:25 Aankh|Clone Dreams.
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09:27 Aankhen`` My kingdom for a Libermann!
09:28 Aankhen`` http://www.go-l.com/_images/hdspeed_machl_3.8_full.gif
09:28 geoffb Wow, that Athens display is a beaut.  Two nits: 1) What in the world video card(s) are needed to run it, and 2) I see a lot of buzzwords in the specs, without very man actual *specs*
09:28 geoffb er, very many
09:28 Aankhen`` Yeah, they're good at hiding specs. :-)
09:29 Aankhen`` I believe those displays are meant to be used only with other L systems.
09:29 Aankhen`` Might be mistaken, though...
09:31 geoffb crazy stuff
09:31 Aankhen`` Yup.
09:32 Aankhen`` $17,000 dollars for one of those, apparently.
09:33 geoffb I remember many years ago, just after the 386 came out, there was a company that would sell you a complete gold-coated system, with hydraulic lifts for the case cover.
09:33 Aankhen`` Yowza.
09:34 geoffb They were aiming to sell directly to the CEO who wanted to have it on or next to his desk as a status item, but never actually use it.
09:34 Aankhen`` Hehe.
09:34 geoffb And they didn't really pull many punches in the marketing.  It was pretty much "You know you want it.  You've got the cash, here's the bling."  Before bling meant anything, of course.
09:35 nothingmuch geoffb: re software raid:
09:35 nothingmuch the only scenario where HW raid is significantly faster than software raid is when there are mirrorred drives on the same bus
09:36 nothingmuch that way SW raid has to send the data as many times as there are drives, but a HW raid gets the data once, and then passes it to each drive later on
09:36 geoffb nothingmuch, I assume that's specific to PC chipset RAID?
09:37 nothingmuch uh, say again?
09:37 geoffb My understanding was that if you drop a grand or two on "real" HW raid, it just wins hands down.  But most of the time, that's not what people are using.
09:37 nothingmuch oh
09:37 nothingmuch right
09:37 nothingmuch i'm talking in theory
09:37 geoffb They have what their chipset vendor calls HW raid.
09:38 geoffb ah, gotcha.
09:38 nothingmuch sw raid and hardware raid do the same thing
09:38 nothingmuch it's just where is it done
09:38 * geoffb is just OT boy tonight . . .
09:39 nothingmuch sw raid is potentially much faster since it probably has a more expensive (and faster) processor and bus
09:39 geoffb True . . . though in the super-high-end case, the CPU gets to stay pretty damn idle.
09:39 nothingmuch to do the pairty checks, CRCs, data transfers, and so on
09:39 geoffb nod
09:39 nothingmuch now, super high end cases just have the same (or good enough) quality stuff packed behind a single interface
09:39 nothingmuch the CPU treats it as one physical disk
09:39 geoffb My rule of thumb is:  If you can drop 5 digits on NAS or a FC enclosure, great.  Otherwise don't bother.
09:40 nothingmuch right
09:40 geoffb nothingmuch, nodnod
09:40 geoffb sadly, I am not yet rich enough to have a nice NAS box at home.  :-)
09:41 * nothingmuch would be worried about the electric bill too
09:41 geoffb heh
09:41 * nothingmuch is very happy with two drives, 80, and 120
09:41 nothingmuch LVM on top of that
09:41 nothingmuch and sw raid on top of LVM
09:41 geoffb actually, my biggest problem in this office is not the electric bill (which does suck), but rather the overheating.
09:41 nothingmuch so i have stripping for the crap data, like movies (not that I download any, uh...)
09:41 geoffb When it's hot outside, it gets toasty in here.
09:41 nothingmuch and for home dirs, /var, and so forth i have mirrorred raid
09:41 nothingmuch eep
09:42 geoffb And $spouse hates it when I turn on the AC to cool the office, thereby leaving the office below 80 and the rest of the house below 70.
09:43 nothingmuch heh
09:43 geoffb And adding a big pile to the electric bill, to boot.  :-)
09:43 geoffb I definitely fear the heat that the new box is going to cast off.
09:43 nothingmuch geoffb: then why not let the boxes breathe outside air?
09:44 geoffb Um . . . because it's even hotter outside during August -> October?
09:44 nothingmuch the boxes can handle it.
09:45 nothingmuch but the people in the house might not =)
09:45 geoffb heh
09:46 nothingmuch wow.... osx's launch agent thingies are tres cool
09:46 nothingmuch it's like inetd + inittabs + gentoo rc system
09:46 nothingmuch all rolled into one
09:46 geoffb Oh, since I've got you on the line, nm: any chance of updates to harrorth any time soon?  I'm passing time reading docs on Forth and Joy waiting.  :-)
09:47 nothingmuch geoffb: we're finishing the rennovation any day now
09:47 * geoffb still using 10.3 on the house OS X box . . .
09:47 nothingmuch then I should have more free time
09:47 geoffb cool.
09:47 nothingmuch i also want to cut back on work hours a bit
09:47 geoffb Good on ya!
09:47 nothingmuch and since summer vacation schedule is now being phased out, that should be easy too
09:48 nothingmuch that way I can get back in shape, since I can bike when it's still day
09:48 geoffb ?
09:48 nothingmuch and then i'll have less fatigue
09:48 nothingmuch which means less TV
09:48 nothingmuch and more interesting stuff
09:48 geoffb nodnod
09:48 geoffb I know just how that goes
09:48 nothingmuch the dust and the cleaning and the hours are really getting to me =(
09:48 geoffb I'll bet
09:49 geoffb toddler + infant hours are getting to me . . . *yawn*
09:49 nothingmuch try waking up before toddler
09:49 nothingmuch it's hard to start, but it makes sense once you get the habit
09:50 geoffb That used to work great.  And then the infant was born.
09:50 nothingmuch oh, i see
09:50 nothingmuch what are ages of said infant and toddler?
09:50 geoffb Baby is not yet sleeping more than 3 hours at a time.  And the 3 hour blocks occur totally randomly, no way to know that it won't be only a 1.5 hour block
09:51 nothingmuch eep
09:51 geoffb 2 1/2 weeks and 2 1/4 years
09:51 gaal has joined #perl6
09:51 gaal hello.
09:51 nothingmuch gaal: hola
09:51 geoffb hola
09:51 nothingmuch http://m19s28.vlinux.de/cgi-bin/pugs-smokeserv.pl
09:51 gaal how is everybody?
09:51 gaal ooh!
09:52 * nothingmuch is psychologically tired
09:52 nothingmuch you?
09:52 * geoffb is tired and rambling, and filling the channel with OT crap
09:52 geoffb nm, do you have kids?
09:52 nothingmuch geoffb: still am a kid
09:52 nothingmuch geoffb: i do have siblings
09:52 geoffb ah
09:52 * gaal is back from a vacation. naturally i need another one :)
09:53 nothingmuch heh
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09:53 nothingmuch got pictures?
09:53 gaal soon!
09:53 nothingmuch hurrah
10:01 geoffb Out of curiosity, has anyone ever tried to figure out why GHC eats so much memory compiling pugs?  I mean, what particular constructs might be triggering poor memory behavior, or if any Haskell program of its size would do the same?
10:03 broquaint Scary autrijus voodoo I would imagine.
10:06 geoffb Sure, I'm just wondering if there is some low-hanging fruit to be picked
10:07 gaal geoffb, probably #haskell will know, but i bet ghc itself takes oodles of RAM as well.
10:09 geoffb perhaps I will ask there when I have the brain power to understand the answer.  :-)
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11:06 keithalexander hi, I am trying to learn to use perl cgi but I get Forbidden
11:06 keithalexander You don't have permission to access /~keithalexander/first.cgi on this server. Can someone show me the error of my ways?
11:09 iblechbot has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:09 nothingmuch chmod a+x ~keithalexander/first.cgi
11:09 nothingmuch but this channel is not concerned with apache or CGI
11:09 nothingmuch or even the perl you are probably running
11:09 nothingmuch this is for perl 6 development and discussion
11:09 keithalexander okay, sorry, that's true
11:09 nothingmuch as for cgi's not being executed - that has to do with the setup that the server is doing
11:09 nothingmuch not with perl
11:09 nothingmuch you should ask your system administrator for help if setting execute permissions is not enough
11:10 nothingmuch only they can really know what's really stopping it from working, we can only make educated guesses
11:10 keithalexander yes, sorry
11:10 nothingmuch no sweat =)
11:10 broquaint What's a good linux mp3 player? XMMS 1.2.10 crashes after 30 mins or so of radio streaming :/
11:10 nothingmuch the problem eappears to be that the cgi script is set with permissions that don't allow the server to execute it
11:11 * broquaint curses irssi and it's wacky interface
11:11 nothingmuch irssi++
11:11 nothingmuch ;-)
11:11 broquaint irssi-- # Makes me look stupid, which is meant to be a *state secret*.
11:11 nothingmuch =)
11:12 * nothingmuch learns not to keep half empty turkish coffee glasses on his desk for the 4th time this week
11:12 broquaint Although I'll still suggestions on decent linux mp3 players ...
11:12 * nothingmuch used mplayer on osx for a while
11:13 broquaint Thanks, nothingmuch :)
11:15 gaal broquaint, mpd is great.
11:15 gaal musicd it's sometimes called
11:15 gaal it's client-server
11:16 gaal pick your client (cli, curses, x11)
11:16 gaal works great with large collections
11:16 gaal doesn't shut down music when you exit x
11:16 gaal etc.
11:16 broquaint Cool stuff, thanks, gaal :)
11:16 broquaint Sounds smart.
11:16 gaal np :)
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11:46 autrijus greetings :)
11:46 gaal hello autrijus-san!
11:46 mjl69 has joined #perl6
11:46 autrijus heya gaal
11:47 autrijus how's life?
11:47 gaal landed a few hours ago :)
11:47 autrijus geoffb: ram consumption on Pugs.Run is due to precompiled prelude
11:47 mercutio has left
11:48 gaal how're you? how's pugs? haven't backlogged yet (scared to :)
11:48 autrijus geoffb: otherwise, it's just GHC -O is known to be slowish. "make unoptimised" will nix that
11:48 autrijus but I don't think there's easy low hangingness
11:48 autrijus gaal: I'm also still backlogging :) but see my journal for the first half
11:48 autrijus tonight I'll post the other half
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12:08 gaal nothingmuch, ping
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12:47 nothingmuch =074xpong
12:47 nothingmuch gaal: pong
12:47 gaal pics up
12:47 nothingmuch url me
12:48 gaal http://gaal.livejournal.com
12:50 nothingmuch yummy: http://pics.livejournal.com/gaal/pic/000564k1/g5
12:50 gaal nice madrase, yes
12:50 nothingmuch http://pics.livejournal.com/gaal/pic/0000d9et/g3 =)
12:51 gaal there's a story behind that one, heh, but i wonder if i should tell it here :)
12:51 nothingmuch tell tell
12:52 gaal well, we went to this nice lake 2 hours from Trabzon called Uzun Gol
12:52 gaal (Goel, heh.)
12:53 nothingmuch sounds like tolkenish names =)
12:53 gaal and my friend forgot the camera and his cell phone on a rock
12:53 gaal Turkish is a very interesting language btw - must be cool to learn it
12:54 gaal so anyway - we discovered the loss only after the drive back
12:54 nothingmuch ooh: http://pics.livejournal.com/gaal/pic/000226zx/g4
12:54 gaal and tried calling the phone several times, but got no answer
12:54 gaal so the day later we hopped on the bus again and looked for it with no luck
12:55 gaal that's the sweetest yayla we found
12:55 nothingmuch yayla?
12:55 gaal so just before giving up we tried calling one more time, and a guy answered in turkish, knew no english
12:56 gaal a passerby near the public phone booth helped us communicate
12:56 gaal he said sure, i can give you back your stuff but i'm not here right now
12:56 nothingmuch what's happenning here? http://pics.livejournal.com/gaal/pic/0002t0q8/g4
12:56 gaal he travelled two hours by car just to give it back
12:57 gaal sunset
12:57 nothingmuch wow, that's nice
12:57 gaal slightly foggy weather
12:57 nothingmuch ah, that explains the fuzzyness
12:58 gaal yes, those pics are real nice for a pretty simple camera! (entry level digital kodak, ~3mp)
12:58 * nothingmuch would have been mui embarraced
12:58 nothingmuch i love this kind of scenery: http://pics.livejournal.com/gaal/pic/0003s422/g4
12:58 gaal by what, the camera guy or the foggy picture? :)
12:59 nothingmuch the foggy picture
12:59 nothingmuch this looks like a collage: http://pics.livejournal.com/gaal/pic/0003zqzd/g4
12:59 gaal well, let me know when you decide to go :)
12:59 nothingmuch very cute =)
13:00 gaal that's the highest summit in the background in that one
13:02 nothingmuch gaal: so how did you go?
13:02 nothingmuch like, what route
13:02 nothingmuch with what vehicles, or lack thereof
13:02 gaal the most significant parts were by foot, about ten days
13:03 gaal i'll tell you when i write about it :)
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13:04 nothingmuch =)
13:04 nothingmuch ugh... /me has gotten no work done today... =(
13:06 nothingmuch given $brain.state { when Stuck { $perl6_channel.complain } }
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13:39 nothingmuch Subject: Shocking family pics and video!
13:40 nothingmuch Daughter d1dn?t want her daddy t0 be her Ist man, but d@d @lways <acy></acy>gets what he wants, even if he has to take it by force?nobody asked <acu></acu>for her opinion?<BR>
13:40 nothingmuch OH YES! INCEST PORN! AND VIOLENT TOO! BUY BUY BUY!
13:43 stevan hola gaal
13:43 gaal stevan!
13:43 nothingmuch moose!
13:43 stevan are you the guy with no hair?
13:43 gaal wapiti!
13:43 gaal one of them :)
13:43 stevan looks like a great trip
13:43 stevan nice scenary
13:44 gaal wonderful actually
13:44 gaal very nice people in the mountains too
13:45 gaal excuse me as i will now find something to eat
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14:08 svnbot6 r6624 | fglock++ | * perl5/ Array,Hash - added pairs,kv,keys,values
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14:12 stevan fglock: FYI - I added multi-methods to the MM 2.0 using Class::Multimethod::Pure
14:15 Arathorn has joined #perl6
14:15 fglock stevan: how is it doing? can I use it for Code?
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14:32 svnbot6 r6625 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - Hash: keys, values, kv, pairs
14:32 svnbot6 r6625 | fglock++ |   - Array: keys, values -- but no kv, pairs
14:38 svnbot6 r6626 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - Array::zip(), Array::kv()
14:40 stevan fglock: it is slow, but seems to be working
14:41 stevan fglock: take a look at t/08_multi_methods.t
14:42 fglock I'm reading it :)
14:42 fglock do you think I can start using MM2?
14:43 stevan fglock: I would like to get more tests for it first
14:44 stevan my $work project just launched today,.. so I should have more tuits very soon
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15:08 svnbot6 r6627 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - add support for printing unboxed values
15:12 elmex has joined #perl6
15:14 svnbot6 r6628 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - stringification checks for AUTOLOADed str()
15:19 Arathorn is now known as Aragone
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15:28 wilx` is now known as wilx
15:33 svnbot6 r6629 | fglock++ | * perl5/ PIL-Run, etc.
15:33 svnbot6 r6629 | fglock++ |   - Added support for unboxed Pair.key, Pair.value
15:33 svnbot6 r6629 | fglock++ |   - Array.pair() passes some tests
15:33 svnbot6 r6630 | fglock++ | * perl5/Array - pairs() passes all tests
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15:45 svnbot6 r6631 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - Array::pick()
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16:18 winningsperm is there a perl equivalent to phpinfo() ?
16:20 wolverian is there a PHP equivalent for some_function_you_have_never_used()?
16:20 wolverian you might want #perl, not #perl6, too. :)
16:20 mjl69 has quit IRC ()
16:20 wolverian (or efnet #perlhelp, which can be sometimes helpful as well.)
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16:37 jrussell hiya everyone.
16:37 jrussell does anyone know what File::Find find() returns?
16:39 autrijus nothing terribly useful.
16:39 autrijus probably undef in all cases
16:40 jrussell so what should i use if i want to see if "filename.txt" exists in a particular directory?
16:40 autrijus -e "/path/filename.txt"
16:40 jrussell i mean inside a code
16:40 autrijus my $exists = -e "/path/filename.txt"
16:40 jrussell oh right ... cheers matey. let me try that out
16:41 autrijus np.
16:42 * geoffb (sortof) awake again
16:42 geoffb from backlog:
16:43 geoffb autrijus, yeah, I knew which phases were RAM killers (having watched top in horror during quite a few builds) -- I just don't understand why the bad phases (esp. PCP and link) are that bad.
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16:44 autrijus PCP is because it's huge
16:44 geoffb I'll take your word for it that there is no low-hanging fruit though, and just pine for my new box until the parts arrive
16:44 svnbot6 r6632 | fglock++ |  * PIL-Run - implemented lazy Array::sum
16:44 svnbot6 r6632 | fglock++ |    (1,2,3,100..100000).sum = 5000045056
16:44 geoffb (and I manage to get time to assemble them)
16:44 autrijus it's 1.8M of source code
16:45 geoffb autrijus, sure, but should 1.8M of source result in hundreds of times that much RAM during compile?
16:45 geoffb It's like GHC is not able to GC or something
16:45 autrijus another thought is to force -O0 on that file.
16:45 geoffb Oh, this is *with* -O0
16:45 wilx Heh.
16:46 wilx 1.8M of source code in one file?
16:46 jrussell oh cheers autrijus! it worked!
16:46 geoffb I've never been able to compile an optimized build
16:46 autrijus wilx: it's Prelude.pm compiled to haskell form
16:46 geoffb wilx, autogenerated so to speak
16:46 wilx That _is_ humungous.
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16:51 jrussell hmm .. is there an elegant way in perl to remove a file instead of using `rm filename`
16:51 wolverian perldoc -f unlink
16:51 autrijus and #perl :)
16:52 jrussell ahhh thank you!
16:54 geoffb In the last couple days, there has been a huge increase in people asking #perl questions here . . . .
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17:02 svnbot6 r6633 | Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel 2.0 - porting some tests from 1.0
17:08 svnbot6 r6634 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - fixed Ref constructor, stringification
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17:32 svnbot6 r6635 | fglock++ | * PIL_Run - (1,2,3) Y (4,5,6)
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17:38 jrussell one more question ... this -e "/path/filename" to test if the 'filename' exists in the path given. what's this -e
17:38 jrussell i haven't heard of it before
17:38 svnbot6 r6636 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - sin, cos, tan, sqrt
17:38 gaal perldoc -f -X
17:39 jrussell oh right :-) thank you
17:39 gaal np :)
17:44 svnbot6 r6637 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - implemented unary '-'; sign()
17:50 svnbot6 r6638 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - chr, ord
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19:02 svnbot6 r6639 | iblech++ | * t/subroutines/lvalue_subroutines.t: Added tests for sub*refs* used as
19:02 svnbot6 r6639 | iblech++ |   lvalues and fixed a test (non-rw subs should die when used as lvalues).
19:02 svnbot6 r6639 | iblech++ | * New t/statements/for_with_only_one_item.t: for ($only_one_item) {...},
19:02 svnbot6 r6639 | iblech++ |   see also http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.language/22970.
19:02 svnbot6 r6639 | iblech++ | * New t/operators/array_interpolation.t: ~("a ", "b") should *not* be "a  b",
19:02 svnbot6 r6639 | iblech++ |   but "a b", see the test for relevant S02 paragraph.
19:02 svnbot6 r6639 | iblech++ | * t/operators/operator_overloading.t: Don't overload &prefix:<-> globally, as
19:02 svnbot6 r6639 | iblech++ |   we don't want to mess runtime internals (affects at least PIL2JS, PIL-Run
19:02 svnbot6 r6639 | iblech++ |   probably as well).
19:02 svnbot6 r6639 | iblech++ | * t/var/default_scalar.t, t/unspecced/cwd.t, t/examples/examples.t:
19:02 svnbot6 r6639 | iblech++ |   skip tests needing IO if $*OS eq "browser"
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19:08 svnbot6 r6640 | iblech++ | * Usual svn props.
19:08 svnbot6 r6640 | iblech++ | * PIL2JS: Misc. minor fixes.
19:08 svnbot6 r6640 | iblech++ |   * Prelude::JS::ControlFlow: for "abc" {...} works now.
19:08 svnbot6 r6640 | iblech++ |   * Prelude::JS::Rules, new Prelude::JS::Smartmatch:
19:08 svnbot6 r6640 | iblech++ |     $any ~~ $string works now.
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19:25 * Aankhen`` goes to sleep.
19:25 Aankhen`` G'night.
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19:25 svnbot6 r6641 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - log, log10; added warning messages
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19:31 svnbot6 r6642 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - uses Perl6::Value::numify()
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19:43 svnbot6 r6643 | fglock++ | * perl5/Hash - fixed calculation of hash keys
19:58 autrijus whew. today's journal only took 3 hours
19:58 autrijus I _think_ I'm now readonably caught up.
19:59 autrijus "reasonably"
19:59 autrijus bad mental auto completion.
20:00 autrijus journal up. see you tomorrow :) &
20:01 fglock bye autrijus!
20:04 autrijus fglock: interestingly, _all_ your commits are in PIL-Run as covered yesterday, so I didn't mention you in today's journal. but your work took the most time by far for me to catch up with :)
20:05 fglock I was too behind - I had to run to catch up with the team
20:06 autrijus it's really very delightful to see the p6-on-p5 inflection point approaching within sight.
20:06 svnbot6 r6644 | fglock++ | * PIL-Run - uc,ucfirst,lc,lcfirst
20:07 autrijus happy hacking. :) really &
20:07 fglock good night!
20:09 ods15 '$links{readlink}' what does this do
20:09 ods15 does it refernce 'readlink' or does it call the function..
20:09 ods15 in perl5
20:10 gaal in perl5 that's a hash lookup with the string "readlink" as key.
20:12 wolverian +readlink or readlink() would call the function
20:12 ods15 ya
20:13 wolverian I wonder if I can use celestia as the screen saver..
20:14 wolverian well, time to sleep. good night everyone!
20:15 ods15 nasty
20:15 ods15 delete @links{grep { -l } bsd_glob('/home/ods15/mdf/noise Folder/*')};
20:15 ods15 i love perl
20:17 PerlJam "bsd_glob"?  isn't that just "glob"?
20:19 ods15 no because of the space
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20:43 svnbot6 r6645 | kolibrie++ | changed <$fh> to =$fh
20:43 svnbot6 r6646 | fglock++ | * perl5/Code - new methods Code::signature_str and Perl6::Param::str
20:43 svnbot6 r6646 | fglock++ |   - the signature can be stringified, for use in error messages
21:01 svnbot6 r6647 | fglock++ | * perl5/ Code - new Class 'Perl6::Type'
21:01 svnbot6 r6647 | fglock++ |   - signature stringification includes the subtype
21:13 svnbot6 r6648 | fglock++ | * perl5/Code - subroutines now stringify like 'sub (Any $name) {...}'
21:16 landover where can i find pugs for winblows?
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21:17 geoffb At least at one point there was a 'PxPerl' that included Pugs and Parrot, precompiled for Win32 . . . but I'm not sure what happened to it
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21:56 landover hrmith
21:56 landover geoffb - well it would be nice if i could run perl6 like i can python heh
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23:25 brentdax I thought you guys cleared up the intermittent can't-find-a-method problem?
23:27 brentdax ...whoa, what the heck is this?
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23:37 brentdax There's something wrong with hashes--the pairs in the hash are getting paired up again somehow, and the "key" pairs are getting stringified.
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23:56 luqui brentdax, can you example it?
23:57 brentdax It seems to happen when a hash passes through a function call.  If you backslash the hash, the problem seems to go away.
23:57 brentdax I need to get this released, but I'll work on it in a little while.
23:57 luqui okay, thanks
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