Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-09-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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01:10 jakx hello
01:10 rafl_ Hello.
01:10 jakx where can i get pxperl
01:13 nothingmuch suppsedly http://pixigreg.com/?pxperl
01:13 nothingmuch but I get a lookup error
01:13 nothingmuch maybe this can help: http://www.jwcs.net/~jonathan/perl6/
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01:21 svnbot6 r6827 | Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel 2.0 - support for anon-classes
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02:30 dudley ugh. Hard drives suck.
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02:52 dudley shit. I lost my Scala PIL2 stuff when my hard drive crashed yesterday. fuck.
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03:51 putter Writing it the second time goes faster...?
03:52 putter mmm, Scala...  could check it in under modules/...
03:56 putter nothingmuch: are you still interested in hacking PIL trees?   either to compile to p5, or...  hmm, a forth to pil compiler?  having a second generator would help push pil clients to be language-neutral...  pilrun is largely a shell to support fglock and stevan... someone needs to write a real compiler...
03:57 putter if not nothingmuch, anyone else?
04:09 putter Hey, an Intel Press optimization book is going to use a couple of one-liners from my Principles of Computer System MisDesign as chapter epigraph.  :) :)  Optimize blindly. Tune first,  measure later.
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04:47 putter "Words to lose by" :)
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04:59 oaklandarchie hello world
05:00 putter good night &
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05:10 svnbot6 r6828 | gaal++ | add recommended formatting settings to syntax. use "setlocal" and not "set"
05:10 svnbot6 r6828 | gaal++ | to minimize creep.
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05:47 Supaplex a book not yet written, O'Reilly Practical Distaster Planning for Government Officials
06:01 QtPlatypus Supaplex: "Practical Distaster Planning and Recovery" would make a very good ORA book.
06:02 Supaplex yup
06:02 Supaplex the origional title I made 20min ago was O'Reilly Practical Distaster Planning
06:02 QtPlatypus Not just Government Officials
06:02 Supaplex but I added the for Government Officials for a little more satire :)
06:03 QtPlatypus Arh.
06:04 QtPlatypus Infact if I knew anything about the topic I would be pitching it to ORA this second :D
06:04 Supaplex you think they'd care for a suggested topic?
06:04 Supaplex even if I don't write it, they can consider it for someone else who will :)
06:05 QtPlatypus Just check there policy on pitching ideas.  I know some people avoid it for legal resons.
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07:34 rindolf Hi all!
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07:34 rindolf autrijus: here?
07:37 rindolf Bah! He's been idle for 7 hours. Maybe he's sleeping.
07:38 dduncan seen ingy
07:38 rindolf .seen ingy
07:39 dduncan that bot may simply be down
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07:40 dduncan fyi, following more Best Practices with my own modules, I'm trying to use 'version' and 'only' modules from CPAN; but, only fails some of its own tests on my machine ... ingy made that module
07:41 dduncan that may not be of consequence for my usage, but anyway its late, so I'll look back into this tomorrow ...
07:41 dduncan fyi, I'll add 'Module::Build' support at the same time for my distros
07:41 dduncan good night
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08:12 meppl guten morgen
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08:59 sperminator whats the command in perl to send something into like /etc/passwd file ?
09:01 QtPlatypus sperminator: In Perl 6 or Perl 5?
09:01 sperminator im not sure what version i have
09:02 sperminator im using Suse linux 9.1
09:03 QtPlatypus That would be perl verson 5.something ask in #perl
09:03 sperminator for example like : print ("<account>") 'send it to' /etc/passwd
09:04 sperminator ok
09:04 QtPlatypus Could I ask you how you found this channel just out of curosity?"
09:04 sperminator irc channel search
09:04 sperminator on yahoo
09:04 sperminator there's a search engine i found
09:05 QtPlatypus ok thanks
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09:11 GeJ niakia`: it might be a bad idea to automatically write stuff to /etc/passwd for several reasons (the passwords not being stored in /etc/passwd comes to mind first). But anyway, this channel is focused on perl 6's development. You might have more chances to get an answer on the #perl channel.
09:12 GeJ hint: you might ask on how to define a file handler and how to write into it
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12:49 svnbot6 r6829 | iblech++ | * Usual svn props.
12:49 svnbot6 r6829 | iblech++ | * pugs::hack: s/emacs/Emacs/ (consistency) and reformatted dduncan++'s section
12:49 svnbot6 r6829 | iblech++ |   about space-loving settings for BBEdit to use POD's =over =item =back, so
12:49 svnbot6 r6829 | iblech++ |   pugs::hack looks good on search.cpan.org.
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13:02 gaal|work hey iblech, i was thinking of adding gzip to the pugs smoke server/client, since uploads can be slow and even time out.
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13:03 gaal|work you don't run it directly off an svn tree, do you?
13:04 rafl Why not bz2?
13:04 gaal|work bz2 also good :)
13:04 rafl It's better!
13:04 gaal|work anything that IO::via can do
13:04 gaal|work sure
13:04 gaal|work does it have autopop for the server side?
13:05 * gaal|work checks
13:05 gaal|work beh, no autopop. that's too bad.
13:06 gaal|work so compression will have to be explicitly signalled in the protocol.
13:06 kgftr|konobi autrijus: ping
13:07 gaal|work (i like how with PerlIO::via::gzip you can open a stream with decompression and have it remove itself quietly if the stream doesn't look like it's compressed with gzip)
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13:21 autrijus kgftr|konobi: pong
13:21 * autrijus is still at $work
13:23 kgftr|konobi autrijus: quick question... any idea if anyone is currently working on VCP::Source::svk and VCP::Dest::CVS ?
13:23 autrijus no idea at all. barries resurfaced a while ago
13:23 autrijus but I don't have track anymore
13:24 kgftr|konobi #svk i suppose then?
13:24 kgftr|konobi castaway: moo
13:24 autrijus yeah
13:28 castaway woof!
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13:51 vkon given that rules use Parrot's PGE, and it is currently limited (no ignorecase), how situation will improve? Wait for Parrot's PGE to improve, or there is another magical way?
13:52 PerlJam vkon: you could hack PGE yourself.
13:52 QtPlatypus Putter is working on something as well.
13:53 PerlJam vkon: or, in lieu of that, just send a friendly email to PGE's author/maintainer.
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15:55 * gaal|work lols at the latest larryism
15:56 gaal|work "typeglobs are dead, dead, dead, dead, and dead, not necessariy in
15:56 gaal|work that order."
15:58 rafl :-)
16:07 geoffb heh
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16:08 castaway *g*
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17:24 ilogger starts logging #perl6 at Wed Sep 07 17:24:28 2005
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17:24 PerlJam cognominal: indeed
17:25 rindolf has joined #perl6
17:25 rindolf Hi all!
17:25 rindolf autrijus: here?
17:26 Juerd My greatest fear is that there will be a CGI module with all kinds of non-CGI crap in it
17:26 Juerd In this I'm a little more strict than most others
17:26 Juerd non-CGI crap doesn't just include HTML generation, it also includes uri-decoding
17:27 Juerd And multipart/form-data decoding
17:27 Juerd It's nice to have modules bundled, but there shouldn't be a big one that does everything by itself
17:27 integral URI-decoding?  It should basically just provide an accessor for %ENV<QUERY_STRING>, but not parse it iself?
17:28 Juerd It should use the uri decoding module.
17:28 * PerlJam suddenly fears a CGI module that autoloads 50 other modules
17:28 integral hmm, so what's the difference between it depending on a module, and just having that code in it?
17:29 Juerd PerlJam: Do you dislike LWP::UserAgent for using HTTP::Headers, for example?
17:29 integral or, if that's the case, it shouldn't just be two modules (CGI env access, and uri decoding), but *three* modules (env access, decoding, and then a wrapper)
17:29 Juerd When written correctly and by the same team, lots of small modules WORK
17:29 Juerd And work very well.
17:30 Juerd There are very few things specific to CGI
17:30 Juerd That the string is in STDIN or %ENV<QUERY_STRING> is CGI
17:30 Juerd The string and the parsing of it, are not
17:30 rindolf has left "Client Exiting"
17:31 integral Juerd: but if CGI just loads URI::Decode, how does the user change what module is used for parsing?  Is there some parameterisation somewhere?
17:31 Juerd Thus the CGI module, regardless of what it name will be, should pass the string (which may be lazily tied to a filehandle) to the module that parses
17:31 Juerd The user doesn't have to change that module.
17:31 Juerd That's needless configurability, if you ask me.
17:31 Juerd It's not a database driver.
17:32 integral but then surely the format of the string *has* been specified by CGI, so it *is* responsible for the parsing?
17:32 Juerd The place of first specification is highly irrelevant
17:33 Juerd We don't put MIME parsing under any Email namespace, do we?
17:33 Juerd It's used in many places outside email nowadays
17:34 Juerd As are strings of the application/x-www-form-urlencoded type.
17:34 integral are we arguing the same thing?   Is what you're talking about just that the "decode_uri" method should be on the interface of URI(or something) not CGI?
17:35 Juerd I think (hope) we agree that decode_uri or whatever the name will be, belongs in URI
17:35 Juerd It's the place where the &=; splitting is done that I'm discussing now
17:35 Juerd And the building of a hash or object from that
17:37 integral And that ultimately happens under the control of CGI
17:37 Juerd It shouldn't
17:37 integral you invoke a CGI method, and it invokes the machinery to do the splitting and then object building
17:37 Juerd Oh, right
17:37 Juerd Yes.
17:38 integral But it might as well call a "my sub uri_decode" were it not that should be factored out for the user to use elsewhere
17:38 Juerd role MIME::URL does Hash does Array does HTML::Form { ... }
17:39 Juerd $query.param('foo'), $query<foo>, $query[0]
17:39 Juerd s/does HTML::Form//  # makes no sense
17:40 Juerd But $query.as(HTML::Form) might
17:40 integral that needs extra info like the URI though
17:40 Juerd Not really
17:40 Juerd It can assume urilessness
17:40 Juerd It's lossy, sure, but it can be very useful
17:41 Juerd my HTML::Form = $query;  # assuming coercion. if not: $query.as(HTML::Form)
17:41 Aankhen`` Hi.
17:41 integral oh, ok,  some kind of implicit Maybe in certain fields,  like say this "undef" thing we've got... ;-)
17:41 Juerd $form.action = '/cgi-bin/bar.cgi';
17:41 Juerd $form.method = 'GET';
17:41 Aankhen`` Juerd: Have you seen HTTP::Request::CGI, by any chance?
17:41 Juerd print $form
17:41 Juerd integral: Forms do not need action, it defaults to the current URL. They do not need method, it defaults to GET
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17:42 integral Juerd: oh, forgetting that
17:42 Juerd integral: This thing can assume every field is of type text.
17:42 integral Juerd: not type hidden?
17:42 Juerd Besides this, it's not the details I care about at this point
17:42 Juerd God damnit, windows sucks
17:43 nnunley has joined #perl6
17:43 Juerd I'LL RESTART LATER, WHEN THE IBM THINGY IS DONE BURNING THE 7 CD'S, { generate_profanity }, SO QUIT BUGGING ME
17:44 integral Haskell++
17:44 Juerd I'm off to mcdonald's for some emergency food.
17:46 rafl Hm. What happended? Only a few commits today..
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19:39 * Aankhen`` goes to sleep.
19:39 Aankhen`` G'night.
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19:46 masak question: what are good ways in p5 and p6 respectively, to reverse a string?
19:46 masak the easiest way i found in p5 was join '', reverse split // $string
19:47 masak doesn't look very nice, now does it?
19:47 integral *blink*
19:47 integral $string = reverse $string
19:48 masak nope
19:48 masak doesn't work :(
19:48 masak reverse only reverses lists... i think
19:48 PerlJam masak: clearly you are insane.
19:48 integral perl -le '$string = "abc"; $string = reverse $string; print $string'
19:48 integral masak: the manual *clearly* explains all the stuff about context
19:48 integral and the faq
19:49 PerlJam masak: in perl6 it would be $string.=reverse probably.
19:49 masak integral: your example worked, thx
19:49 masak but nothing worked for me
19:49 masak apparently i am insane :P
19:49 integral no, you don't understand scalar context.  perl -le 'print scalar reverse shift' foobar
19:49 PerlJam masak: you were probably saying "print reverse $string"
19:50 masak no, but maybe something of the sort
19:50 masak and that doesn't work, because...?
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19:50 integral masak: print's prototype is (@), ie list context.  It's a rightwards named list operator
19:50 PerlJam masak: context.
19:51 * masak thinks he sees it now
19:51 PerlJam masak: perldoc -f reverse
19:51 masak thx, integral and PerlJam
19:51 masak PerlJam: I read the perldoc entry but apparently not carefully enough
19:51 * masak reads it again
19:51 masak ah
19:52 masak "In scalar context, concatenates the elements of LIST and returns a string value with all characters in the opposite order."
19:52 masak this somehow went past me as something i didn't want :/
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20:30 * rafl wants a new release..
20:36 Supaplex doesn't everyone?
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20:53 geoffb perlbot, seen nothingmuch
20:53 geoffb dang
20:56 masak perlbot, seen perlbot
20:56 masak :P
20:58 buu perlbot doesn't do seen
20:58 buu frogbot and seenserv do
20:58 geoffb yeah, I was just checking . . .
20:58 geoffb we used to have a couple bots that did seen in here, but I think none now after all of the freenode mucking about.
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22:50 renormalist Hi! I'm trying to find out what "pick" does. I see it quite a lot in pugs/examples. Anyone with a hint?
22:51 justatheory has joined #perl6
22:54 luqui renormalist, picks a random number from a list/junction
22:54 luqui ?eval [1,2,3].pick
22:54 evalbot_6830 2
22:54 luqui ?eval [1,2,3].pick
22:54 evalbot_6830 2
22:54 luqui ?eval [1,2,3].pick
22:54 evalbot_6830 2
22:54 luqui uh
22:54 luqui ?eval [1,2,3].pick
22:54 evalbot_6830 1
22:54 luqui there we go
22:55 renormalist pick == "take any element of list" ?
22:55 justatheory has quit IRC (Client Quit)
23:05 Supaplex ?eval [1,2,3,4,5].pick
23:05 evalbot_6830 3
23:05 Supaplex ?eval [1,2,3,4,5].pick
23:05 evalbot_6830 2
23:05 Supaplex ?eval [1,2,3,4,5].pick
23:05 evalbot_6830 5
23:06 Supaplex knifty
23:06 rantanplan ?eval (1..10).pick
23:06 evalbot_6830 3
23:06 rantanplan Uh cool. :)
23:07 Supaplex ?eval l=(1..10);l.pick;print l
23:07 evalbot_6830 Error:  unexpected "p" expecting block construct, ":", term, term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
23:07 Supaplex meh :P
23:08 Supaplex my guess is that it does not pop/shift it out.
23:08 Supaplex ?eval (1..10).grab
23:08 evalbot_6830 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&grab"
23:08 Supaplex worth a guess hehe :)
23:09 luqui Supaplex, you needed a $ or an @ in your test eval
23:09 renormalist Where are such builtins documented/described? I couldn't find "pick" by myself.
23:09 luqui oh, yeah, it doesn't splice it out
23:09 luqui renormalist, in the source :-/
23:09 luqui specifically, all of them are in src/Pugs/Prim.hs
23:09 luqui but their documentation is written in Haskell :-(
23:10 renormalist m'kay
23:10 Supaplex ?eval $l=(0..9);$l.pick;print $l
23:10 evalbot_6830 Error: Undeclared variable: "$l"
23:10 Supaplex ?eval my $l;$l=(0..9);$l.pick;print $l
23:10 evalbot_6830 0123456789bool::true
23:11 Supaplex ?eval my $l;$l=(0..9);$l.pick;print join(' ',$l);
23:11 evalbot_6830 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9bool::true
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23:31 _meppl_ gute nacht
23:37 rafl Bye.
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